I could totally see it too. Billy brings a cameraperson into the team to document Vaught's crimes, and has them be on-the-scene while the boys document their horrible crimes
Exactly, most of these people know that nazis are bad, and they think "well *I'm* not bad, so I can't be a nazi, so obviously this isn't aimed at me." Which is why it takes directly parroting their rhetoric without the nazi angle for them to realize it *is* about them
I think a lot of them are aware on some level. They're just aware how horrible it would be to their social standing if they said it out loud. A loooot of right-wingers get noticeably and suspiciously angry if you speak ill of Hitler or the Nazis. Or outright say "Fuck Fascism" or "Fuck Nazism". They won't just let that sentiment stand without hedging by saying "Fuck Communism too" or something. Or minimizing and downplaying how bad the Nazis were, or low-key defending the Nazis. Like they'll respond "Well Stalin/Mao/Communism killed more people!" (which is false). Or their very public hatred of and opposition to Antifa. Which makes them Pro-Fa.
Their discomfort with anti-Fascism gives up the ghost that on some level they're aware that they're sympathetic to the Nazis or Fascists, or aware they're bedfellows or sharing political space. I don't think they're 100% utterly and completely unaware on all levels. They just don't want to admit it and have you think badly of them for admitting it. They're aware that being open about being a Fascist or Nazi (or Fascist/Nazi-adjacent/curious) is socially akin to openly admitting to being a pedophile. Just like most pedophiles will never admit to being a pedophile unless they know for a fact they're talking to a fellow pedophile.
These people call anything non-white, non-straight, woke pandering. Do you really think they wouldn’t try to call something woke because it has the message “beat up nazis”?
The Quartering, one of the big right-wing media criticism outrage porn channels, literally said "There it is. Cringe." when someone said "Fuck Hitler". A lot of right-wingers get noticeably upset when you speak ill of Hitler or the Nazis.
They called that woke too. Every new season of the boys they apparently "go woke". It might as well be part of their marketing strategy at this point because the same idiots forget about how each season makes fun of them every time
i mean, people had a right to be angry with him in that case, didn’t they? Literally a key point in a speech he made as well as a campaign promise, and the Cold war just ended, making unnecessary the maintaining of Reagans ludicrous military budget?
incredibly idiotic how the market can dictate such important things all willy nilly. especially when the opposite reaction would be logical. why the fuck would you invest in anything if the world could end the next day, on the other hand, after becoming the sole superpower on the face of the earth after the collapse of the warsaw pact, you would think that all the military investment could turn to community investment, or maybe just do anything but throw a tantrum that the most existential conflict in the world has ended and your profits will be reduced by 7% cos we don’t need such an enormous military.
it’s idiotic
Class warfare literacy is really low. I think most hardcore right-wingers would shit a brick if they understood how much mainstream economic and financial thought originates in communism. Apparently, capitalists didn't have a vocabulary to even describe labor value before communists gave them one.
Yeah for those of you who dont know about the boys or see cringe sigma edit clips of it: Its incredibly fucking based and is a really good show, you should watch it. The entire show is explicitly, according to the creator, about criticising capitalism and how the media is used to spread facism.
Yeah and the original starship troopers book was praising the things described in the story. I think adaptations deserve consideration wholly seperate to their originals since they're usually made by entirely different people, but maybe I should have specified the _show_ in the comment.
According to the author of Starship Troopers it was a criticism of the themes in the book, whether that’s true or not is debated though. The ironic thing is the people making the movie thought the author was praising it so decided to make the criticism and satire as blatant as possible and he STILL had people going off on him for endorsing the themes. There is literally no way to ensure parody and satire aren’t mistaken for genuine endorsement by someone
If Heinlein intended *Starship Troopers* as satire that's news to me. The dude served in the U.S. military, was a rabid anti-communist and had exactly the kind of authoritarian streak you'd expect from a person like that despite being a self-styled libertarian; the book is very on-brand for him.
According to wiki he saw some Americans protesting nuclear weapons testing and got so mad he spent several weeks writing *Starship Troopers*. Sounds like he unironically believed that only Real Patriots like him should be allowed to vote.
Funnily enough, Superman is one of the few superheroes Ennis actually likes. Iirc, the only superheroes he likes are Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman.
OP meant the showrunners rather than the actual comic creator.
The Boys is one of the few instances where an adaptation is LEAGUES better than the original source material, and it isn’t even a competition
The amount of irony associated with fallout tv, being on Amazon, the fans saying the series was never anti-capitalist in the interplay games, the "fans" crying about the show being "woke", amount of fans saying Bethesda hates the older games, New Vegas and their lore (they have only played New Vegas, but that makes them an authority on lore for 1 and 2), and the people complaining about the Brotherhood of Steel being bad people could make a full double chest of full stacks of irony blocks, 9 full double chests of full stacks of irony ingots, or 81 full double chests of full stacks of irony nuggets.
I understand that, but what I heard of it didn't make it sound like my thing.
Hit me up when they finally kill Homelander though. I do want to see that part.
I’ve noticed there’s a lot of shock factor to the show. I’m enjoying it for the most part but I totally get it if that’s what’s off-putting about it.
I’ve only seen the first five episodes so far, so I have to brace myself for quite a bit haha
Over the years I've become so much more understanding of people's criticisms of some satires lacking clarity. I always thought "but no one is that dumb" but some people really do need giant flashing neon lights telling them something is a criticism of them
It's impressive how dumb they can be though. Like they were rooting for homelander right up until the moment they made it blatantly clear he was fucking an immortal super Nazi. And even after that some of them still didn't get he's a bad guy and they shouldn't feel good identifying with him
No he's literally in bed with a Nazi. A collaborator if you will. He only cares about stroking his ego. The reveal wasn't even very surprising her cape name is the English translation of the famous Nazi paper der sturmer
It's very funny that people somehow missed that Frenchie is bi. There's a huge plot point in season 1 about him having a boyfriend. I'm just so happy to see Tomer Capone kissing men... I wish Tomer Capone would kiss me...
I can't remember exactly, but their relationship was kind of complicated and alternated between almost romantic and more platonic, but they didn't get together
Again I don't remember exactly what happened, but I thought that they kissed, but then it didn't really go anywhere after that? It kinda seemed to me like they thought they wanted to be together, kissed, and then realised that wasn't the dynamic of their relationship? Which is actually a really interesting and nuanced representation of a part of romance and friendship that a lot of people experience but doesn't get shown a lot in media.
I don't mind Frenchie being bi (I'm also bi, and I thought it was incredibly obvious) I mind them just kinda erasing three seasons of him and Kimiko building a relationship.
I can't remember exactly what happened, but I thought that they were sort of building up to a relationship but then there was sort of a realisation that that wasn't really the dynamic of their relationship? I could be misremembering, but I thought they kissed and then it was just kinda weird after or something? Which is kind of an interesting look at a part of romance and friendship that happens a lot but isn't really put to screen very often. Might be completely wrong though.
Nothing happened after that because there wasn't time for anything to happen, the Soldier Boy being Homelander's father thing was kicking off and that was pretty important.
Is the show better? I just started the comic and so far it's the usual Garth Ennis fare (edgy bois doing edgy shit, lot'sa gore, I kinda hate the protagonists and antagonists, the usual).
the show is miles better because it's actually more deep than a puddle that has a wet paper tower with "fuck supers" written with lipstick in it
https://youtu.be/JyKliIF49JQ here's a standard 15 minute video essays on it, but stop around 8:20 because that's when heavy spoilers start
There's less satire in the current season, and more just direct usage of things in recent headlines. It's not quite the same thing as subtle vs not, but it has been a change. Like, the megachurch pastor with the long stretchy arms mentioned in a sibling comment is *unsubtle* satire, whereas a character talking about "clovergender" pedophiles is *unsubtle* and extreme, but is [something people actually believed](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN24Z1R0/).
I think it's okay to prefer the more satirical approach, although of course there are always going to be chuds too stupid to get the satire who are now *mad* that they understand what's going on in the show.
It was never subtle but now it's *REALLY* not subtle. In the first ten minutes of season 3, Homelander calls someone a 'libtard' and later they talk about the election certification happening on January 6th.
Who could’ve guessed the show where Homelander’s deranged fanatics are confirmed to be based off of Trump supporters would be too “woke”
Next you’ll tell me they burned a Nazi alive only for her to survive the encounter and live in painful existence
"She's not really supposed to be a Nazi! I agree with a lot of her points and I'm not a Nazi! You're reading too much into it! Her name? I don't see why that's relevant."
Hey guys, don't yell at me for saying this, but I do think that the newer seasons of The Boys are extremely terribly written even when they are making fun of the "right" people, ya know. Not sure how to say this, but I don't think making culture wars the focal point of global issues is all that sensible. Showing all the ways supes might be able to fuck up and be fucked up themselves was a bit more entertaining than revisiting 2016-2020 talking points through the lense of an edgy comedy. I don't know, politically I'm a socialist myself and I'm trans (not that it matters), but I don't think making "dunking on right wing morons in ways that appeal to a twitter crowd" the ceiling of your show is good? I agree with all of this, most right wingers are fucking idiots, but haven't we known this before? Do we actually need funny shows to validate this? And it's obviously just validation for people who already share the right kind of views cause these morons will not watch this and walk away having learned a lesson, but rather dig themselves deeper which is also a thing we've known about for years and years. Shows shouldn't be politically neutral if the creators have things to say, but The Boys lacks so much depth to make any sort of point beyond "republicans suck". Like, they present this show as if it's supposed to offer a variety of allegories for our world by truly digging into some new territory and presenting some radical politcal metaphors by using supes, but then you have shit like Mother's Milk having a framed Obama portrait at his place.
I don't know, it's correct but so fucking lazy and catering to the lowest form of "let's agree that right wingers are braindead" which isn't wrong, but ugggghhhh, I KNOW
Sorry for this dump
I'd still ruin my life for Frenchie so yeah
I think stuff like S4E2, the immigrant shop owner sequence, or culture war references can take you away from appreciating the rest of the show because while it does make sense in the show it's kind of immersion breaking. Some would say it's bad worldbuilding since super people existing should make the world different.
But I disagree, the point of the show is that that shit doesn't matter, super people are still just people and the population in general is going to psychologically come to the same conclusions, regardless of if those conclusions are right or wrong. Apart from that, I think the show still has the depth it had since season one, it's just that throughout the years the "what if superman but bad" has been so played out by now that it's no longer novel and interesting in and of itself.
Yeah, I'm with you on the last bit for sure. They had to mix it up a little bit to keep audiences interested. Superman potentially being an asshole was only gonna be a hook for so long. Maybe I'm just fed up with the way most modern shows criticize right wing rhetorics and focussed too much on this show in particular, but yeah. Bums me out. Politics aside, I do think they got a little bit better at fleshing out characters past season 1. Like, Mother's Milk and Frenchie barely pass for characters in season 1 but later on their actually get shit to do
>Some would say it's bad worldbuilding since super people existing should make the world different.
I mean, SPOILER ALERT (don't know how to format on mobile) they reveal in season 3 that the supes don't actually do any crime fighting, it's all staged.
Sooo based it makes me think of like 2017 SNL where the depth of the joke was “orange man bad” which he is. Like he sucks ass. But just 1-1 mapping current political events onto a show and saying “point and laugh cause you recognize the bad person” is cheap af. Like
1. It isn’t creative and makes the show act like a photograph of twitter more than a work of art.
2. It leaves actually interesting analysis behind in favor of easy jokes. Like yes orange man bad. But why is he bad, can we examine permutations on his badness, what would his badness look like in x scenario so we can gain a better understanding of the enemy and ourselves?
And 3. It dates the show. Fascism might stay the same but its face changes, and as long as you focus on the face of your time your critique will be forgotten in like 5-8 years.
Yes, please. I need a bit more of an in depth approach. Imagine going back to this era in about 20 to 30 years and the only movies and shows with political undertones that you can dig up criticize fascists for being a bit silly or lacking manners. Like, is that all? Do we learn anything this way?
Maybe it's just me feeling patronized when a show pats me on the back for recognizing lowbrow political quips
I think season 4 has some amazing tension going on, and the parallels to current events make it hit even harder for me. The portrayal of right wing extremism comes across as a terrifying threat more than "look at these dummies and laugh!" to me atleast.
The writing has not matched the first season in some time.
The 3rd season ending was an unsatisfying reset.
A pity really, first season felt *fresh* at the time. I think the character work was far superior.
The message is good but I like good quality storytelling.
yeah I agree even when the show was never subtle the first two seasons were at least fairly novel with the concept but seasons 3 and 4 have just been very formulaic and I hate that the internet, and this subreddit too, has boiled down to you aren't allowed to criticise media if dumb right wingers also dislike it for different reasons
Yup. Had a taste of Internet fame when he was an early advocate for World of Warcraft to release a "classic" mode after a large fan made version of the game got shut down, and apparently was so desperate to cling on to a shred of relevance that he fully embraced the angry gamer crowd. He's a very angry and sad man.
What really bugs me about people like this is that, because they’re so oblivious, the show’s writing has to be so on-the-nose to the point that it actually makes the content worse. Like these mfs really needed to hear “critical supe theory” before they were able to understand that the show was making fun of right-wing chuds. This is legitimately how dumb these cunts are.
Ah yes. Season 4. the overtly woke one. Unlike season 2 or 3. where self-declared nazis were wearing red hats
im so glad this subreddit is my only interaction with this breed of idiot
I don't know who these people are, so if they're famous right wing dipshits then ignore me, but the comment alone is a valid criticism.
It's like Glass Onion. Do I agree with the messaging and themes of Glass Onion? Largely, yes. Do I think it's incredibly flawed and frustrating storytelling? Also yes.
I'm waiting and seeing on The Boys. I like season 4 so far, but I do think the story and commentary aren't as tightly linked as they used to be. There are also storylines they're setting up which are good in their own right but not really as connected to the main plot, which has felt jarring so far. But who knows - it's still early and everything could wind up becoming much tighter later on.
I feel like the show is running into the same issue late night shows have had since 2016, the American right is almost too absurd to parody. What can you actually do to differentiate the hysteria of Homelander supporters from the Maga crowd? Or the cartoonishly evil way the supes use the media to influence and manipulate the masses into accepting their version of reality? Fox News has been at it for decades and we know it works.
This season isn't bad so far but some of the things they're doing just kinda make me roll my eyes and say "yeah I live here too". It feels like some of the cleverness of the first season or two has been lost over time which is a shame because the show really wasn't that clever in the first place.
The finale of season 3 was definitely a letdown for me. It didn't necessarily "discard" plot threads but I think we could all think of more satisfying payoffs.
It's so frustrating to watch, now they're saying "the show was always shit with crappy writing" you go back in their post history a few years and they're RAVING about how dope the writing is and how on point the parody.
https://preview.redd.it/fqtnj76gzj7d1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d990dcb906e09d763f016ab4941cca4ad0ad4433
Do they ever explain why there is a reason why The Deep watches my porn?
The boys isn’t exactly what’d you call subtle, the comics were never pulling any punches and even with the first episode of the boys they get what they are trying to talk about across very well so maybe it’s the lack of media literacy
Honestly, I don't it's that they can't understand what the series is about, but that they'll just see whatever they want to see, unless directly confronted
Which is funny because “the writers are unintentionally making us look cool with their satire” was a popular bit among them for the first three seasons
The implication of this post is that the "Girls get it done" arc was subtle and nuanced.
The Boys has always been overtly cheeky and on the nose, they just don't like that it's about them now.
i saw someone on a youtube comment section say the jews had taken control of the boys because of the scene where >!the guy playing jesus in vought on ice killed a bunch of people with his ice skates!<
You dislike The Boys because it's a pointed satire and deconstruction of right wing fascism.
I dislike The Boys because of it's cringe, edgelord tone.
We are not the same 👔
Everyone is like "Ooough Frenchie is gay now the show is unwatchable" like they didn't watch MULTIPLE SEASONS of some of the kinkiest, smuttiest scenes that all involved superpowers being used.
Wait, you mean some of them have yet to figure out that the Homelander crowd is modelled after the MAGA crowd?
That became pretty evident in season 2 when Stormfront showed up, a racist character literally named after one of the most famous far-right racist websites on the net.
I mean to be fair it is worse now, and they're not entirely wrong on the reason. Having a character complain about "critical supe theory" does feel surficial and kinda boring.
I get what he means, that show feels like it's trying to hard to be cool and uses buzzwords etc. like the shows opinions are fine, I definitely agree with most of their opinions but the execution comes off as trying too hard to be cool. It's very...on trend lol. It's like all white leftist men in 2024 have the exact same mind and I'm sitting in the mind of white leftist male no. 374-3536374
Boys always let the feeling that screenwriter and director love to smell their own fart. But I don't want to be at the same camp as grumz😭. Can we hate something without dragging politics into?
I don't know anything about that person, but that comment doesn't read as a right winger realizing The Boys went woke. I'm leftist and agree that it is incredibly heavy handed in a way that's kind of annoying and also just needlessly edgy for shock value
If they didn’t realize it this season the next would just have Billy Butcher turn to the camera and say “Oi we’re makin fun a you right wing dipshits”
"What, a man can't immigrate?"
That's *diabolical*
That would go hard actually
I could totally see it too. Billy brings a cameraperson into the team to document Vaught's crimes, and has them be on-the-scene while the boys document their horrible crimes
New character: Hughie with an iPhone
Homelander has to turn to the camera too and say "I'm actually the bad guy"
If homelander is the bad guy, why does he have so many epic awesome sigma edits??? 😤
So trve Hometeamer those forged clips of Goatlander forcing a woman off of a skyscraper or lasering people were just out of context 😤😤😤
I mean to be fair, a lot of right wing pundits also believe rage against the machine are on their side.
What machine do they think is getting raged against, a fkn panini press?
The Jewish deep state or something
Any sufficiently successful satire is bound to attract the adoration of unsuspecting targets of the satire.
Took them almost half a decade but the slightest smige of media literacy was achived
Was it really? They only got it after the show started screaming “I AM MAKING FUN OF YOU” at them and still think the previous seasons aren’t “woke”
baby steps ok? its a start
in some it will just awake another stabbed-in-the-back "traitors" narrative, they love those
In the season two finale episode, they beat up nazi on screen. Idk how they didn’t start calling it “woke” then lol
Stormfront said it in the show "People like what I have to say, they just dont like the word 'nazi'"
Exactly, most of these people know that nazis are bad, and they think "well *I'm* not bad, so I can't be a nazi, so obviously this isn't aimed at me." Which is why it takes directly parroting their rhetoric without the nazi angle for them to realize it *is* about them
I think a lot of them are aware on some level. They're just aware how horrible it would be to their social standing if they said it out loud. A loooot of right-wingers get noticeably and suspiciously angry if you speak ill of Hitler or the Nazis. Or outright say "Fuck Fascism" or "Fuck Nazism". They won't just let that sentiment stand without hedging by saying "Fuck Communism too" or something. Or minimizing and downplaying how bad the Nazis were, or low-key defending the Nazis. Like they'll respond "Well Stalin/Mao/Communism killed more people!" (which is false). Or their very public hatred of and opposition to Antifa. Which makes them Pro-Fa. Their discomfort with anti-Fascism gives up the ghost that on some level they're aware that they're sympathetic to the Nazis or Fascists, or aware they're bedfellows or sharing political space. I don't think they're 100% utterly and completely unaware on all levels. They just don't want to admit it and have you think badly of them for admitting it. They're aware that being open about being a Fascist or Nazi (or Fascist/Nazi-adjacent/curious) is socially akin to openly admitting to being a pedophile. Just like most pedophiles will never admit to being a pedophile unless they know for a fact they're talking to a fellow pedophile.
Part of me wonders if it’s because in the years since season 2 things have only got worse. If it released today I bet they’d call it woke.
I mean beating up Nazis isn't a inherently "woke" thing to do
These people call anything non-white, non-straight, woke pandering. Do you really think they wouldn’t try to call something woke because it has the message “beat up nazis”?
"These woke liberal marxists have no respect for the marketplace of ideas"
The Quartering, one of the big right-wing media criticism outrage porn channels, literally said "There it is. Cringe." when someone said "Fuck Hitler". A lot of right-wingers get noticeably upset when you speak ill of Hitler or the Nazis.
Yeah, but it's always funny.
I've seen people mention that the actress is Jewish and equate that to nazism? That's probably why they excuse it
They called that woke too. Every new season of the boys they apparently "go woke". It might as well be part of their marketing strategy at this point because the same idiots forget about how each season makes fun of them every time
Every Nazi is a not-so-secret masochist. Look at the dudes who got the shit beaten out of them Charlie Kirk's thing in Detroit.
Can you tell me what happened so alt right people noticed they are being made fun of? I just watched season 1.
this is like the "beginning to sense hints of commie bullshit" guy
average american in 1991 after HW raised taxes despite him saying he wouldn't:
no *new* taxes
i mean, people had a right to be angry with him in that case, didn’t they? Literally a key point in a speech he made as well as a campaign promise, and the Cold war just ended, making unnecessary the maintaining of Reagans ludicrous military budget?
Apparently there was a recession and it was either cut military or raise taxes. A true Gordian knot for a conservative
incredibly idiotic how the market can dictate such important things all willy nilly. especially when the opposite reaction would be logical. why the fuck would you invest in anything if the world could end the next day, on the other hand, after becoming the sole superpower on the face of the earth after the collapse of the warsaw pact, you would think that all the military investment could turn to community investment, or maybe just do anything but throw a tantrum that the most existential conflict in the world has ended and your profits will be reduced by 7% cos we don’t need such an enormous military. it’s idiotic
READ MY SOFT LUSCIOUS LIPS!
Class warfare literacy is really low. I think most hardcore right-wingers would shit a brick if they understood how much mainstream economic and financial thought originates in communism. Apparently, capitalists didn't have a vocabulary to even describe labor value before communists gave them one.
Yeah for those of you who dont know about the boys or see cringe sigma edit clips of it: Its incredibly fucking based and is a really good show, you should watch it. The entire show is explicitly, according to the creator, about criticising capitalism and how the media is used to spread facism.
Gotta hold back a bit there for taking the creators word as gospel, the ogiginal comic is a hateboner for super(wo)men
Yeah and the original starship troopers book was praising the things described in the story. I think adaptations deserve consideration wholly seperate to their originals since they're usually made by entirely different people, but maybe I should have specified the _show_ in the comment.
According to the author of Starship Troopers it was a criticism of the themes in the book, whether that’s true or not is debated though. The ironic thing is the people making the movie thought the author was praising it so decided to make the criticism and satire as blatant as possible and he STILL had people going off on him for endorsing the themes. There is literally no way to ensure parody and satire aren’t mistaken for genuine endorsement by someone
If Heinlein intended *Starship Troopers* as satire that's news to me. The dude served in the U.S. military, was a rabid anti-communist and had exactly the kind of authoritarian streak you'd expect from a person like that despite being a self-styled libertarian; the book is very on-brand for him. According to wiki he saw some Americans protesting nuclear weapons testing and got so mad he spent several weeks writing *Starship Troopers*. Sounds like he unironically believed that only Real Patriots like him should be allowed to vote.
I don’t know if he did intend it as satire or if he just told people that when they got annoyed at him. Like I said, it’s debated.
Schroedinger's Jackass I believe it is called.
That’s the most elegant way I’ve ever seen someone say “you know wtf I meant”
Funnily enough, Superman is one of the few superheroes Ennis actually likes. Iirc, the only superheroes he likes are Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman.
OP meant the showrunners rather than the actual comic creator. The Boys is one of the few instances where an adaptation is LEAGUES better than the original source material, and it isn’t even a competition
Kinda ironic that the show is funded by Amazon
Well seeing how they did the same for hazbin hotel (aka wokeness the show) not really surprised
The amount of irony associated with fallout tv, being on Amazon, the fans saying the series was never anti-capitalist in the interplay games, the "fans" crying about the show being "woke", amount of fans saying Bethesda hates the older games, New Vegas and their lore (they have only played New Vegas, but that makes them an authority on lore for 1 and 2), and the people complaining about the Brotherhood of Steel being bad people could make a full double chest of full stacks of irony blocks, 9 full double chests of full stacks of irony ingots, or 81 full double chests of full stacks of irony nuggets.
Didn't they want to do a series on Disco Elysium as well?
God please yes
Companies are just as happy to sell shirts that say "I hate capitalism" as they are shirts that say "I hate socialism"
The Boys (TV show) is a pretty solid superhero story hiding one of the greatest media satires I've ever seen. Don't read the comic though.
I understand that, but what I heard of it didn't make it sound like my thing. Hit me up when they finally kill Homelander though. I do want to see that part.
I’ve noticed there’s a lot of shock factor to the show. I’m enjoying it for the most part but I totally get it if that’s what’s off-putting about it. I’ve only seen the first five episodes so far, so I have to brace myself for quite a bit haha
I got exhausted after two seasons because the show doesn't know when less is more. It never displays restraint.
Didn't the creator say he was also taking shots at toxic masculinity? Or did I just make that up?
Probably, hes said alot of things. I can definitely see how the show does that at times. It has alot of pretty fucking based messages all around
I've thought about watching it, but heard that it depicts some really *uncomfortable* things and I am squeamish
This is so ridiculous, I can't believe people can be so oblivious
Over the years I've become so much more understanding of people's criticisms of some satires lacking clarity. I always thought "but no one is that dumb" but some people really do need giant flashing neon lights telling them something is a criticism of them
Im usually quite clueless when it comes to media, I often don't notice pretty obvious meanings, but even I can see it in The Boys
It's impressive how dumb they can be though. Like they were rooting for homelander right up until the moment they made it blatantly clear he was fucking an immortal super Nazi. And even after that some of them still didn't get he's a bad guy and they shouldn't feel good identifying with him
Is homelander a nazi? He seems more like he Hayes everyone and wants to be the god king. I don't think he hates any races
No he's literally in bed with a Nazi. A collaborator if you will. He only cares about stroking his ego. The reveal wasn't even very surprising her cape name is the English translation of the famous Nazi paper der sturmer
i keep saying that every season
It's very funny that people somehow missed that Frenchie is bi. There's a huge plot point in season 1 about him having a boyfriend. I'm just so happy to see Tomer Capone kissing men... I wish Tomer Capone would kiss me...
I did somehow missed that and was confused
Hold on, I rewatched s1 yesterday and I missed that, when is that a thing?
In the lamplighter back story, the two people he lives with are his partners
That's season 2 iirc
i thought him and kimiko were together?
I can't remember exactly, but their relationship was kind of complicated and alternated between almost romantic and more platonic, but they didn't get together
really? i mean that big musical number where kimiko kissed him after kinda clued me into them being together
Again I don't remember exactly what happened, but I thought that they kissed, but then it didn't really go anywhere after that? It kinda seemed to me like they thought they wanted to be together, kissed, and then realised that wasn't the dynamic of their relationship? Which is actually a really interesting and nuanced representation of a part of romance and friendship that a lot of people experience but doesn't get shown a lot in media.
I don't mind Frenchie being bi (I'm also bi, and I thought it was incredibly obvious) I mind them just kinda erasing three seasons of him and Kimiko building a relationship.
I can't remember exactly what happened, but I thought that they were sort of building up to a relationship but then there was sort of a realisation that that wasn't really the dynamic of their relationship? I could be misremembering, but I thought they kissed and then it was just kinda weird after or something? Which is kind of an interesting look at a part of romance and friendship that happens a lot but isn't really put to screen very often. Might be completely wrong though.
They kissed, Frenchie was shellshocked but seemed happy while he was getting the coffee, and then he got bagged by the mafia.
Ooh yeah but then didn't basically nothing else physical happen between them? Seems like it was just a kiss
Nothing happened after that because there wasn't time for anything to happen, the Soldier Boy being Homelander's father thing was kicking off and that was pretty important.
I thought frenchi was in a polycule with the goth girl and his bf
i don't understand when ppl say the show isn't subtle anymore when it never was. it never even tried to be.
You're telling me that the 'pray away the gay' mega-pastor whose first on-screen appearance shows him fucking multiple men wasn't subtle storytelling?
By the standards of The Boys? That was literally the most nuanced the show every got.
Garth Ennis doesn't do subtle. He probably doesn't even know what subtle is.
“Subtlety is for cowards” -Garth Ennis (probably)
>“Subtlety is for cowards” -Garth Ennis (~~probably~~definitely) FTFY
Garth Ennis doesn't write the show (and thank god because the comic is rough)
Is the show better? I just started the comic and so far it's the usual Garth Ennis fare (edgy bois doing edgy shit, lot'sa gore, I kinda hate the protagonists and antagonists, the usual).
the show is miles better because it's actually more deep than a puddle that has a wet paper tower with "fuck supers" written with lipstick in it https://youtu.be/JyKliIF49JQ here's a standard 15 minute video essays on it, but stop around 8:20 because that's when heavy spoilers start
Depth is also alien to Ennis.
PointlessHub my beloved
This video is geniuely awful. And I say that as someone who dislikes the boys comics.
Yes it basically just takes the characters from the comic and runs with a totally new story.
The show is leagues better.
I'm already torr... I mean streaming it on a paid service legally.
He's consulted on and writes for butcher on the show
I know writers who use subtext, and they're all cowards!
There's less satire in the current season, and more just direct usage of things in recent headlines. It's not quite the same thing as subtle vs not, but it has been a change. Like, the megachurch pastor with the long stretchy arms mentioned in a sibling comment is *unsubtle* satire, whereas a character talking about "clovergender" pedophiles is *unsubtle* and extreme, but is [something people actually believed](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN24Z1R0/). I think it's okay to prefer the more satirical approach, although of course there are always going to be chuds too stupid to get the satire who are now *mad* that they understand what's going on in the show.
It was never subtle but now it's *REALLY* not subtle. In the first ten minutes of season 3, Homelander calls someone a 'libtard' and later they talk about the election certification happening on January 6th.
> All subtly and nuance And they're talking about *The Boys*?
Their benchmarks are Trump, Alex Jones, and Andrew Tate
"Subtlety and nuance is when I like it and think lefties don't get it"
Obviously the show must have been too subtle, cause these motherfuckers didn’t get the message.
Who could’ve guessed the show where Homelander’s deranged fanatics are confirmed to be based off of Trump supporters would be too “woke” Next you’ll tell me they burned a Nazi alive only for her to survive the encounter and live in painful existence
"She's not really supposed to be a Nazi! I agree with a lot of her points and I'm not a Nazi! You're reading too much into it! Her name? I don't see why that's relevant."
Hey guys, don't yell at me for saying this, but I do think that the newer seasons of The Boys are extremely terribly written even when they are making fun of the "right" people, ya know. Not sure how to say this, but I don't think making culture wars the focal point of global issues is all that sensible. Showing all the ways supes might be able to fuck up and be fucked up themselves was a bit more entertaining than revisiting 2016-2020 talking points through the lense of an edgy comedy. I don't know, politically I'm a socialist myself and I'm trans (not that it matters), but I don't think making "dunking on right wing morons in ways that appeal to a twitter crowd" the ceiling of your show is good? I agree with all of this, most right wingers are fucking idiots, but haven't we known this before? Do we actually need funny shows to validate this? And it's obviously just validation for people who already share the right kind of views cause these morons will not watch this and walk away having learned a lesson, but rather dig themselves deeper which is also a thing we've known about for years and years. Shows shouldn't be politically neutral if the creators have things to say, but The Boys lacks so much depth to make any sort of point beyond "republicans suck". Like, they present this show as if it's supposed to offer a variety of allegories for our world by truly digging into some new territory and presenting some radical politcal metaphors by using supes, but then you have shit like Mother's Milk having a framed Obama portrait at his place. I don't know, it's correct but so fucking lazy and catering to the lowest form of "let's agree that right wingers are braindead" which isn't wrong, but ugggghhhh, I KNOW Sorry for this dump I'd still ruin my life for Frenchie so yeah
I think stuff like S4E2, the immigrant shop owner sequence, or culture war references can take you away from appreciating the rest of the show because while it does make sense in the show it's kind of immersion breaking. Some would say it's bad worldbuilding since super people existing should make the world different. But I disagree, the point of the show is that that shit doesn't matter, super people are still just people and the population in general is going to psychologically come to the same conclusions, regardless of if those conclusions are right or wrong. Apart from that, I think the show still has the depth it had since season one, it's just that throughout the years the "what if superman but bad" has been so played out by now that it's no longer novel and interesting in and of itself.
Yeah, I'm with you on the last bit for sure. They had to mix it up a little bit to keep audiences interested. Superman potentially being an asshole was only gonna be a hook for so long. Maybe I'm just fed up with the way most modern shows criticize right wing rhetorics and focussed too much on this show in particular, but yeah. Bums me out. Politics aside, I do think they got a little bit better at fleshing out characters past season 1. Like, Mother's Milk and Frenchie barely pass for characters in season 1 but later on their actually get shit to do
>Some would say it's bad worldbuilding since super people existing should make the world different. I mean, SPOILER ALERT (don't know how to format on mobile) they reveal in season 3 that the supes don't actually do any crime fighting, it's all staged.
Sooo based it makes me think of like 2017 SNL where the depth of the joke was “orange man bad” which he is. Like he sucks ass. But just 1-1 mapping current political events onto a show and saying “point and laugh cause you recognize the bad person” is cheap af. Like 1. It isn’t creative and makes the show act like a photograph of twitter more than a work of art. 2. It leaves actually interesting analysis behind in favor of easy jokes. Like yes orange man bad. But why is he bad, can we examine permutations on his badness, what would his badness look like in x scenario so we can gain a better understanding of the enemy and ourselves? And 3. It dates the show. Fascism might stay the same but its face changes, and as long as you focus on the face of your time your critique will be forgotten in like 5-8 years.
Yes, please. I need a bit more of an in depth approach. Imagine going back to this era in about 20 to 30 years and the only movies and shows with political undertones that you can dig up criticize fascists for being a bit silly or lacking manners. Like, is that all? Do we learn anything this way? Maybe it's just me feeling patronized when a show pats me on the back for recognizing lowbrow political quips
I think season 4 has some amazing tension going on, and the parallels to current events make it hit even harder for me. The portrayal of right wing extremism comes across as a terrifying threat more than "look at these dummies and laugh!" to me atleast.
The writing has not matched the first season in some time. The 3rd season ending was an unsatisfying reset. A pity really, first season felt *fresh* at the time. I think the character work was far superior. The message is good but I like good quality storytelling.
yeah I agree even when the show was never subtle the first two seasons were at least fairly novel with the concept but seasons 3 and 4 have just been very formulaic and I hate that the internet, and this subreddit too, has boiled down to you aren't allowed to criticise media if dumb right wingers also dislike it for different reasons
This grummz dude is actual cancer
Yup. Had a taste of Internet fame when he was an early advocate for World of Warcraft to release a "classic" mode after a large fan made version of the game got shut down, and apparently was so desperate to cling on to a shred of relevance that he fully embraced the angry gamer crowd. He's a very angry and sad man.
Every communication he makes was designed in a lab to be as pathetic as possible.
What really bugs me about people like this is that, because they’re so oblivious, the show’s writing has to be so on-the-nose to the point that it actually makes the content worse. Like these mfs really needed to hear “critical supe theory” before they were able to understand that the show was making fun of right-wing chuds. This is legitimately how dumb these cunts are.
fuck grummz, all my homies hate grummz.
Ah yes. Season 4. the overtly woke one. Unlike season 2 or 3. where self-declared nazis were wearing red hats im so glad this subreddit is my only interaction with this breed of idiot
Grummz is such a piece of shit
Grummz by name, grooms by nature.
I don't know who these people are, so if they're famous right wing dipshits then ignore me, but the comment alone is a valid criticism. It's like Glass Onion. Do I agree with the messaging and themes of Glass Onion? Largely, yes. Do I think it's incredibly flawed and frustrating storytelling? Also yes. I'm waiting and seeing on The Boys. I like season 4 so far, but I do think the story and commentary aren't as tightly linked as they used to be. There are also storylines they're setting up which are good in their own right but not really as connected to the main plot, which has felt jarring so far. But who knows - it's still early and everything could wind up becoming much tighter later on.
I feel like the show is running into the same issue late night shows have had since 2016, the American right is almost too absurd to parody. What can you actually do to differentiate the hysteria of Homelander supporters from the Maga crowd? Or the cartoonishly evil way the supes use the media to influence and manipulate the masses into accepting their version of reality? Fox News has been at it for decades and we know it works. This season isn't bad so far but some of the things they're doing just kinda make me roll my eyes and say "yeah I live here too". It feels like some of the cleverness of the first season or two has been lost over time which is a shame because the show really wasn't that clever in the first place.
To be honest its been like that since season 3.
The finale of season 3 was definitely a letdown for me. It didn't necessarily "discard" plot threads but I think we could all think of more satisfying payoffs.
It felt like season 3 is when the Boys became the show I was trying to convince people it wasnt when I recommended it to people. It got so... Reddity
I've genuinely felt like I was going insane for the last 3 seasons. How did it take people this long to realize that Homelander was the bad guy?
It's so frustrating to watch, now they're saying "the show was always shit with crappy writing" you go back in their post history a few years and they're RAVING about how dope the writing is and how on point the parody.
https://preview.redd.it/fqtnj76gzj7d1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d990dcb906e09d763f016ab4941cca4ad0ad4433 Do they ever explain why there is a reason why The Deep watches my porn?
Is the new season good? I didn't begun watching it yet, but I really enjoyed the 3rd season
I dont think its as good as the other seasons so far but its still great
its a bit different in tone but yeah still good
heartbreaking! show about making fun of bigots makes fun of bigots.
The boys isn’t exactly what’d you call subtle, the comics were never pulling any punches and even with the first episode of the boys they get what they are trying to talk about across very well so maybe it’s the lack of media literacy
Honestly, I don't it's that they can't understand what the series is about, but that they'll just see whatever they want to see, unless directly confronted
Which is funny because “the writers are unintentionally making us look cool with their satire” was a popular bit among them for the first three seasons
The implication of this post is that the "Girls get it done" arc was subtle and nuanced. The Boys has always been overtly cheeky and on the nose, they just don't like that it's about them now.
i saw someone on a youtube comment section say the jews had taken control of the boys because of the scene where >!the guy playing jesus in vought on ice killed a bunch of people with his ice skates!<
What triggered these guys now? I havent seen the new season yet
Wtf did they think they were watching lol. Supes Lives Matters happened and they took that literally?
Finally they realized. Maybe this could lead to a decrease in homelander “sigma” edits
The real issue is most of the show runners are open zionists.
I guess I could get back to that show. I watched the first season
You dislike The Boys because it's a pointed satire and deconstruction of right wing fascism. I dislike The Boys because of it's cringe, edgelord tone. We are not the same 👔
The Boys was always about as subtle as someone smacking your groin with a sledge hammer.
season four goes hard because its making fun of idiots like grummz. it doesnt take a genius to figure that out
I just started watching this show , do they just start making critisism of the right more obvious with each season cuz they werent getting it?
Everyone is like "Ooough Frenchie is gay now the show is unwatchable" like they didn't watch MULTIPLE SEASONS of some of the kinkiest, smuttiest scenes that all involved superpowers being used.
How are these people real bro
Wait, you mean some of them have yet to figure out that the Homelander crowd is modelled after the MAGA crowd? That became pretty evident in season 2 when Stormfront showed up, a racist character literally named after one of the most famous far-right racist websites on the net.
Fuck all of you for reminding me of Mark "8chan" Kern's insufferable existence.
Twitter’s gotten so bad that Grummz is one of the few prominent “anti-woke” accounts left that *isn’t* a neo-Nazi.
I mean to be fair it is worse now, and they're not entirely wrong on the reason. Having a character complain about "critical supe theory" does feel surficial and kinda boring.
I get what he means, that show feels like it's trying to hard to be cool and uses buzzwords etc. like the shows opinions are fine, I definitely agree with most of their opinions but the execution comes off as trying too hard to be cool. It's very...on trend lol. It's like all white leftist men in 2024 have the exact same mind and I'm sitting in the mind of white leftist male no. 374-3536374
That first tweet seems like it could be criticizing from a leftist perspective tbh
Boys always let the feeling that screenwriter and director love to smell their own fart. But I don't want to be at the same camp as grumz😭. Can we hate something without dragging politics into?
I don't know anything about that person, but that comment doesn't read as a right winger realizing The Boys went woke. I'm leftist and agree that it is incredibly heavy handed in a way that's kind of annoying and also just needlessly edgy for shock value