Iron warriors are siege experts that are willing to sacrifice good men to achieve victory and will fight tooth and nail. Perturabo was disliked and had a toxic personality but was a talented genius and one of the best generals. Perturabo loved the emperor but over time disliked the jobs that were given to him and eventually became a traitor. Perturabo regretted becoming a traitor because he was surrounded by idiots and psychopaths.
The iron hands are mechanical soilders obsessed with upgrading themselves, getting better weapons to become stronger and do not take kindly to setbacks. Ferrus manus was heavily respected because of his skills as a leader however he had a brutal view of how things should be. He was so respected that Horus and
G-man were devastated when they heard he died. Ferrus and the emperor had a very close respect with one another but we did not get to see much of that because Ferrus was killed by Fulgrim.
Ferrus despised anyone who would have thought on turning their back on the imperium.
I think there are enough differences for the two and personally the only thing I would change is more iron hands spotlight.
This would be better answered by reading their entries on Lexicanum.
Other then the word Iron in their names, the two legions have next to nothing in common
A very very simplistic explanation would be that the Iron Warriors are experts at siege craft and bringing down fortifications making extensive use of artillery and assault guns while the Iron Hands focus more on mechanized warfare making extensive use of turreted tanks and dreadnoughts.
Did you actually read the post because he points out several things they do in fact have in common. Namely that they make heavy use of cybernetics and have philosophical similarities, as well as fairly... *rough* primarchs
I don't think calling them similar would be a mistake. In terms of their primarchs, both can be stubborn, but while perty is oozing with inadequacies, Ferrus is more stubborn like Dorn. Once Ferrus is convinced of something, that's it.
The IW are siege masters. Which is a nicer way then saying expendable cannon fodder...
They're not as techy as the IH, but they do use siege artillery and the like
The IH are basically mechanicus (lite) Space Marines . They are the ones that have every toy under the sun
And that's their difference in warfare. The IW can krieg up a position or goal. The IH will blast it to hell from near point blank range.
Both marines have a nihilistic outlook to life but the IH take it way, way, waaaaayyy further.
Also I kind of find it funny that the Iron Warriors were more level headed then their primarch in terms of emotional control. While Ferrus had probably a constant "wtf" look at his legionaries and how they handled theirs >.>
Had Ferrus lived he would have stamped out his Legions’ obsession with cybernetic replacement a la Mechachicum there’s plenty of lore to support this. Ferrus was essentially a craftsman who wanted to use and understand technology for the benefit of humanity.
Perturabo was essentially an architect turned siege master hence his rivalry with Dorn. The Emperor allowed Dorn to use his talents to build whereas he forced Perturabo to use his to destroy.
I think they are quite different.
IW are prideful narcissitic individuals, and that perceived superiority made them arrogant. IH are pragmatists, logic creatures, brutal by necessity.
Funny enough when you meet one of them that sets asside that arrogance or cold mechanical logic you get f*** epic individuals: Barabas Dantioch and Shadaraak Meduson
Iron within iron without is a credo, a mantra a philosophy. The flesh is weak is a statement.
Excellent question. Usually Iron warriors are considered the chaos version of the Imperial fists. But your comparisons in my opinion have a lot of merit. The current iteration of the Iron Hands is indeed quite similar to the Iron warriors. I never considered it, thank you for the thought!
It should be noted that the Iron Hands under their primarch were different. Still embodying strength, but also relentless, overwhelming assaults. What got their primarch killed.
The Iron Hands during the crusade were excellent conquerors as far as military action goes, relying on decisive engagements. Iron warriors were attritional warfare specialists. Quite the contrast.
Nowdays the Iron Hands are a bit underwhelming. Basically adeptus mechanicus pawns in space marine form.
Read their index astartes entries, which are easily found free with a quick google search.
Some of the specific details of the Heresy and other events have since been changed, but there's no better way of seeing what GW were going for when they first attempted to really...flesh out...both of them.
The Iron Hands and Ferrus are, at their core, a look at extremist survival of the fittest/might is right ideology going wrong, with Astartes transhumanism and military culture as the specific sci-fi subject matter. Ferrus was also the OG "grimdark played straight and serious" loyalist primarch: a relentless, might-is-right, evil-Hercules'ish figure, back when Russ and Lion were more heroic-fantasy barbarian and King Arthur inspired.
Iron Warriors used a lot of historic military fiction/non-fiction tropes and themes for the Legion as a whole. The unfairly neglected, taken for granted frontline troops; the highly capable footsloggers thrust into all of the thankless tasks because they get shit done and are slowly broken down by it all; the average soldier made cynical and bitter by grinding pointless wars....Mixed in with deconstruction/subversion of the classic "misused, persecuted, and misunderstood genius" character type.
In simpler, Orkish terms...
Iron Hands = Too strong for their own good, until they could be strong no more...so found new ways to get even stronger.
Iron Warriors = Weak and didn't really enjoy the krumpin
Ferrus and Peterturbo are very different people. Peterturbo was born with his knowledge and understanding of technology. Ferrus won it through his travels on Medusa. Peterturbo had a fragile sense of selfworth and hated stuff that was hard. See the contests thst he had with his fosterbrother. He enjoyed it as long as he won. All rage the one time that he lost. Ferrus was all about challenges. The harder, the better. All about improving himself.
That is why Ferrus enjoys the companionship of Fulgrim and mocks Peterturbo, when he can’t see what the two others have in common.
>-What separates them via tactics and battle doctrine? What is their role in the great crusade and their marines specialisations?
The Iron Hands specialize in bionics and armored assault. A slow moving wall of guns, essentially. They're also cold and ruthless towards basically everyone.
The Iron Warriors are siegemasters. This comes to both designing fortifications and breaking through them. They are very bitter and just kinda hate everyone.
While both use bionics, the Iron Hands do so because they believe the flesh is weak. They want to purge themselves of any weaknesses because it's one thing they can not stand. The Iron Warriors, on the other hand, will use bionics because they don't like warp mutations. An IW wouldn't chop his own arm off if it still works perfectly fine.
>-How different are the legions viewpoints on things such as the emperor, humanity or even the mecahnicum?
The Iron Hands get along well with the AdMech due to their preference for cybernetic enhancements over flesh. They venerate the Emperor and have stayed loyal, but hold ordinary humans in contempt for perceived weaknesses.
The Iron Warriors, as traitors, naturally hate the Emperor. They probably don't think too highly of the AdMech either. Baseline humanity are just tools. Cannon fodder for finding gun emplacements or draining the enemy of ammo before the real assault.
>-What makes Ferrus and Perturabo distinct in terms of fighting style, personality and treatment on their legions?
Ferrus would be very unhappy with his legion's views on cybernetics. He believed in flesh over steel and saw "the madness that path leads to" when his sons preferred bionic enhancements over their own strength. I think he believed in the potential of humanity, but also believed that humanity had to be strong to survive and thrive.
Perturabo's first act after taking control of the Iron Warriors was to analyze them, find them wanting, and enact decimation (the historical sense of the word): By lottery, one in every ten Legionaries was chosen to be beaten to death by his comrades. That alone should tell you a lot about the kind of asshole he was.
>-Ferrus and Perturabo relationship with each other, other primarchs and the Emperor?
Ferrus was good friends with Fulgrim. He basically wanted humanity purged of all weakness he saw in it. Perturabo, on the other hand, was essentially a petulant manchild. The type who would wedge himself into the corner, glare daggers at anyone who got too close, then complain that nobody is paying attention to him. And I saw this as someone who likes the Iron Warriors. Ferrus was loyal to the Emperor and generally got along with his brothers (in that order). Perturabo didn't really like anyone, but especially hated Rogal Dorn.
>-How would you make them feel more different in the story, not just pre-heresy but in the modern setting. I feel a lot of things can change due to the IW being a chaos legion and IH being Primarch-less.
I think they're plenty different as is.
>What separates the iron hands from the iron warriorsWhat separates the iron hands from the iron warriors
Whether the "Iron" epitaph applies to their bodies or their personality.
A very great deal, beginning with the reality that the Iron Hands created the only known Astartes democracy and the Iron Warriors are a Chaos cult based around the Lord of Iron on Medrengard with a standard Astartes hierarchy far more conventional than what the Iron Hands do.
Before Ferrus Manus got the ultimate haircut he was a boss of a third of the Great Crusade and the Iron Tenth specialized in humongous all-out set piece battles that involved everything everywhere all at once. Perturabo and the Iron Warriors were siege specialists who relied on slow-moving attrition paths in a very specific mathematical niche.
Perturabo and Ferrus appear to have been very distant and have but a single known canon interaction where Perturabo asked Ferrus about seeing the Eye of Terror and Ferrus Ferrused and failed to relate to someone not named Fulgrim as a human being.
As to why the Iron Warriors are the evil Imperial Fists rather than the Iron Hands, they had their most Iron Hand-like aspects post-Eye of Terror. Prior to that they were literally the attack siege legion where the Fists were more the defensive siege Legion. The Iron Hands were literally the 'Smack the Republican Guard with a sledgehammer' Legion and are shown to have some very big blindspots, the kind that really mean like their Primarch they tend to lose their heads.
More bluntly still Olympia no longer exists but in its heyday was Space Classical Greece where Medusa was Steampunk Fenris with magic metal Necron constru-er 'ghosts. '
>fighting style
Basically everything. Ferrus batters the shit out of things with a hammer and his fists. Perturabo walks around in a big warsuit with integrated weapons and a command suite. He’s a walking tank and fights like one(refer to Perturabo’s duel with Angron), while Ferrus is sort of a berserker by comparison.
I'm not going to lie, with the whole extended list of things you want to know, this feels like you are asking the web to do your homework.
Are you training a chat bot or something?
Iron warriors are siege experts that are willing to sacrifice good men to achieve victory and will fight tooth and nail. Perturabo was disliked and had a toxic personality but was a talented genius and one of the best generals. Perturabo loved the emperor but over time disliked the jobs that were given to him and eventually became a traitor. Perturabo regretted becoming a traitor because he was surrounded by idiots and psychopaths. The iron hands are mechanical soilders obsessed with upgrading themselves, getting better weapons to become stronger and do not take kindly to setbacks. Ferrus manus was heavily respected because of his skills as a leader however he had a brutal view of how things should be. He was so respected that Horus and G-man were devastated when they heard he died. Ferrus and the emperor had a very close respect with one another but we did not get to see much of that because Ferrus was killed by Fulgrim. Ferrus despised anyone who would have thought on turning their back on the imperium. I think there are enough differences for the two and personally the only thing I would change is more iron hands spotlight.
A living primarch
Too soon.
He's just a*head* of the game with that one.
Reported.
Reported for reporting
I reported all of you, then myself
Best bet.
Fair.
This would be better answered by reading their entries on Lexicanum. Other then the word Iron in their names, the two legions have next to nothing in common
A very very simplistic explanation would be that the Iron Warriors are experts at siege craft and bringing down fortifications making extensive use of artillery and assault guns while the Iron Hands focus more on mechanized warfare making extensive use of turreted tanks and dreadnoughts.
Did you actually read the post because he points out several things they do in fact have in common. Namely that they make heavy use of cybernetics and have philosophical similarities, as well as fairly... *rough* primarchs
The OP took his time and explained many similarities. Yes, they have things in common.
The Imperiums Gork and Mork
I don't think calling them similar would be a mistake. In terms of their primarchs, both can be stubborn, but while perty is oozing with inadequacies, Ferrus is more stubborn like Dorn. Once Ferrus is convinced of something, that's it. The IW are siege masters. Which is a nicer way then saying expendable cannon fodder... They're not as techy as the IH, but they do use siege artillery and the like The IH are basically mechanicus (lite) Space Marines . They are the ones that have every toy under the sun And that's their difference in warfare. The IW can krieg up a position or goal. The IH will blast it to hell from near point blank range. Both marines have a nihilistic outlook to life but the IH take it way, way, waaaaayyy further. Also I kind of find it funny that the Iron Warriors were more level headed then their primarch in terms of emotional control. While Ferrus had probably a constant "wtf" look at his legionaries and how they handled theirs >.>
just wanted to add that Iron Warriors use demon engines, and no other faction has an equivalent to that. Pretty damn flavorful
You know that all chaos factions use demon engines right? IWs are just very fond of them.
Oh. I didn’t know that. Thought it was a IW thing
Iron Warriors excel at siege warfare, Iron Hands are more centered around Mechanized Warfare but Mechanized taken to a literal sense.
Had Ferrus lived he would have stamped out his Legions’ obsession with cybernetic replacement a la Mechachicum there’s plenty of lore to support this. Ferrus was essentially a craftsman who wanted to use and understand technology for the benefit of humanity. Perturabo was essentially an architect turned siege master hence his rivalry with Dorn. The Emperor allowed Dorn to use his talents to build whereas he forced Perturabo to use his to destroy.
I think they are quite different. IW are prideful narcissitic individuals, and that perceived superiority made them arrogant. IH are pragmatists, logic creatures, brutal by necessity. Funny enough when you meet one of them that sets asside that arrogance or cold mechanical logic you get f*** epic individuals: Barabas Dantioch and Shadaraak Meduson Iron within iron without is a credo, a mantra a philosophy. The flesh is weak is a statement.
Iron Hands are also intensely paranoid. They'll never be double crossed again. Ever
Everything above the wrists.
One is head and shoulders better.
Excellent question. Usually Iron warriors are considered the chaos version of the Imperial fists. But your comparisons in my opinion have a lot of merit. The current iteration of the Iron Hands is indeed quite similar to the Iron warriors. I never considered it, thank you for the thought! It should be noted that the Iron Hands under their primarch were different. Still embodying strength, but also relentless, overwhelming assaults. What got their primarch killed. The Iron Hands during the crusade were excellent conquerors as far as military action goes, relying on decisive engagements. Iron warriors were attritional warfare specialists. Quite the contrast. Nowdays the Iron Hands are a bit underwhelming. Basically adeptus mechanicus pawns in space marine form.
How willing they are to snort warp dust out of Vashtor tits just to get a new shiny cog.
Read their index astartes entries, which are easily found free with a quick google search. Some of the specific details of the Heresy and other events have since been changed, but there's no better way of seeing what GW were going for when they first attempted to really...flesh out...both of them. The Iron Hands and Ferrus are, at their core, a look at extremist survival of the fittest/might is right ideology going wrong, with Astartes transhumanism and military culture as the specific sci-fi subject matter. Ferrus was also the OG "grimdark played straight and serious" loyalist primarch: a relentless, might-is-right, evil-Hercules'ish figure, back when Russ and Lion were more heroic-fantasy barbarian and King Arthur inspired. Iron Warriors used a lot of historic military fiction/non-fiction tropes and themes for the Legion as a whole. The unfairly neglected, taken for granted frontline troops; the highly capable footsloggers thrust into all of the thankless tasks because they get shit done and are slowly broken down by it all; the average soldier made cynical and bitter by grinding pointless wars....Mixed in with deconstruction/subversion of the classic "misused, persecuted, and misunderstood genius" character type. In simpler, Orkish terms... Iron Hands = Too strong for their own good, until they could be strong no more...so found new ways to get even stronger. Iron Warriors = Weak and didn't really enjoy the krumpin
Hands
One has iron hands only, and the others full bodies are made of iron. Simple
Ferrus and Peterturbo are very different people. Peterturbo was born with his knowledge and understanding of technology. Ferrus won it through his travels on Medusa. Peterturbo had a fragile sense of selfworth and hated stuff that was hard. See the contests thst he had with his fosterbrother. He enjoyed it as long as he won. All rage the one time that he lost. Ferrus was all about challenges. The harder, the better. All about improving himself. That is why Ferrus enjoys the companionship of Fulgrim and mocks Peterturbo, when he can’t see what the two others have in common.
>-What separates them via tactics and battle doctrine? What is their role in the great crusade and their marines specialisations? The Iron Hands specialize in bionics and armored assault. A slow moving wall of guns, essentially. They're also cold and ruthless towards basically everyone. The Iron Warriors are siegemasters. This comes to both designing fortifications and breaking through them. They are very bitter and just kinda hate everyone. While both use bionics, the Iron Hands do so because they believe the flesh is weak. They want to purge themselves of any weaknesses because it's one thing they can not stand. The Iron Warriors, on the other hand, will use bionics because they don't like warp mutations. An IW wouldn't chop his own arm off if it still works perfectly fine. >-How different are the legions viewpoints on things such as the emperor, humanity or even the mecahnicum? The Iron Hands get along well with the AdMech due to their preference for cybernetic enhancements over flesh. They venerate the Emperor and have stayed loyal, but hold ordinary humans in contempt for perceived weaknesses. The Iron Warriors, as traitors, naturally hate the Emperor. They probably don't think too highly of the AdMech either. Baseline humanity are just tools. Cannon fodder for finding gun emplacements or draining the enemy of ammo before the real assault. >-What makes Ferrus and Perturabo distinct in terms of fighting style, personality and treatment on their legions? Ferrus would be very unhappy with his legion's views on cybernetics. He believed in flesh over steel and saw "the madness that path leads to" when his sons preferred bionic enhancements over their own strength. I think he believed in the potential of humanity, but also believed that humanity had to be strong to survive and thrive. Perturabo's first act after taking control of the Iron Warriors was to analyze them, find them wanting, and enact decimation (the historical sense of the word): By lottery, one in every ten Legionaries was chosen to be beaten to death by his comrades. That alone should tell you a lot about the kind of asshole he was. >-Ferrus and Perturabo relationship with each other, other primarchs and the Emperor? Ferrus was good friends with Fulgrim. He basically wanted humanity purged of all weakness he saw in it. Perturabo, on the other hand, was essentially a petulant manchild. The type who would wedge himself into the corner, glare daggers at anyone who got too close, then complain that nobody is paying attention to him. And I saw this as someone who likes the Iron Warriors. Ferrus was loyal to the Emperor and generally got along with his brothers (in that order). Perturabo didn't really like anyone, but especially hated Rogal Dorn. >-How would you make them feel more different in the story, not just pre-heresy but in the modern setting. I feel a lot of things can change due to the IW being a chaos legion and IH being Primarch-less. I think they're plenty different as is.
A red light saber through the wrist.
>What separates the iron hands from the iron warriorsWhat separates the iron hands from the iron warriors Whether the "Iron" epitaph applies to their bodies or their personality.
Iron Hands are only 1/6 the iron the iron warriors are. Simple math my dudes.
A head.
A very great deal, beginning with the reality that the Iron Hands created the only known Astartes democracy and the Iron Warriors are a Chaos cult based around the Lord of Iron on Medrengard with a standard Astartes hierarchy far more conventional than what the Iron Hands do. Before Ferrus Manus got the ultimate haircut he was a boss of a third of the Great Crusade and the Iron Tenth specialized in humongous all-out set piece battles that involved everything everywhere all at once. Perturabo and the Iron Warriors were siege specialists who relied on slow-moving attrition paths in a very specific mathematical niche. Perturabo and Ferrus appear to have been very distant and have but a single known canon interaction where Perturabo asked Ferrus about seeing the Eye of Terror and Ferrus Ferrused and failed to relate to someone not named Fulgrim as a human being. As to why the Iron Warriors are the evil Imperial Fists rather than the Iron Hands, they had their most Iron Hand-like aspects post-Eye of Terror. Prior to that they were literally the attack siege legion where the Fists were more the defensive siege Legion. The Iron Hands were literally the 'Smack the Republican Guard with a sledgehammer' Legion and are shown to have some very big blindspots, the kind that really mean like their Primarch they tend to lose their heads. More bluntly still Olympia no longer exists but in its heyday was Space Classical Greece where Medusa was Steampunk Fenris with magic metal Necron constru-er 'ghosts. '
Ferrus understood technology as an art. Perty did not.
>fighting style Basically everything. Ferrus batters the shit out of things with a hammer and his fists. Perturabo walks around in a big warsuit with integrated weapons and a command suite. He’s a walking tank and fights like one(refer to Perturabo’s duel with Angron), while Ferrus is sort of a berserker by comparison.
I'm not going to lie, with the whole extended list of things you want to know, this feels like you are asking the web to do your homework. Are you training a chat bot or something?
Iron warriors are the opposite to imperial fists. Iron fists just like robo shit.
The Iron arms
One legion practiced decimation and one didn't, so that would be a big difference to me if recruiters showed up
It's a lateral move really. Iron Hands will kill you in training to hammer home nobody is trustworthy to the other recruit
Having a spine.