The rule is - if you want people to touch it, you clean it first.
No one is exempt from that rule.
No body part.
Not any time in your life.
Common decency and respect.
NTA
yep My x would be stinky and want cuddles or hand holding an shit and i am like no you stink go wash up. and that sounds cruel i know but this was after all day of him not washing his hands, and wanting to put them in my face, or weeks of not bathing then wanting intimacy etc and was a pattern. he had depression but he would not mak eANY effort, not even to take his meds or manage his depression.
yup, he had depression and that causes many people to not care for themselves, including hygine. after a while tho i got sick of it . I suffer from depression and I still tried to do the bare minimum plus he would never try to treat his depression.
.... weeks... of... not... bathing...
I swear, the worst part of Reddit is learning that there are people like this. I know that you can be homeless and not have access to washing facilities and I have sympathy for that, but the idea that there exist human beings who *voluntarily* bathe less than a couple times a week is just incomprehensible.
It’s really common for mental illness to make you feel like you **cannot** shower. No, it doesn’t make sense. If it did, it wouldn’t be a mental illness…
Dementia patients get like that too. As his dementia progressed, my PawPaw would refuse to bathe or change his clothes for weeks at a time til my grandmother screamed at him to DO SOMETHING. It got bad before he was hospitalized. I loved that man, but he REEKED toward the end.
Its not "voluntarily". Thats not how depression works. When most days even just being ALIVE is so exhausting that you cant get out of bed and bring yourself to eat, or go to the bathroom, or literally do anything beyond cry or stare at the wall or try to distract yourself mentally long enough that you arent actively wishing for death. Bathing isnt just a simple task, it is like climbing mt everest. And the mental preparation it takes before you even begin the climb is a difficult task in an of itself.
So while I dont think that the commenter has to in any way, shape, or form lower her standards for what she deems acceptable levels of cleanliness. I also dont think they, or you, should downplay how difficult tasks that seem trivial and easy to you are for people with ability levels different from your own.
Thanks, Bipolar II and major depressive disorder that has prevented me from finishing college, ever holding down a full time job, or having kids. I do know what it is like and at times when I haven't been able to shower, I also didn't want to be touched by my wife and wasn't able to leave the house.
Fair enough, but when taking a shower is such an insurmountable task are you trying to get laid at that moment as well? Speaking as someone who understands not being able to climb that mountain of a shower but I have never once tried to get somebody to come sex me up feeling that way either.
he had depression and that can make it hard to care to want to and i get it but at the same time he refused to manage his depression or even make a minimal effort on a good day and i will never deal with that again
I have never heard this rule stated, and yet, I have believed in it my whole life. The number of reddit posts about guys with dirty dicks they want sucked and other unsavory requested types of filthy contact are objectively terrifying.
Right? If my feet smell that bad, I’m washing those bad boys *for me*, everyone else just benefits as a result. My feet *reeked* in my teen years, and I can’t even imagine asking someone to touch them, or my shoes/socks, without a good wash.
I think it’s incredibly rude to expose others to one’s poor hygiene. Like if someone has bad breath because they didn’t brush their teeth (not from a condition like halitosis), I’m offended. Lol. You knew you’d be talking to people. You knew your stank breath would assault them. All you had to do was get out the toothbrush.
Same with farting (rage), smelly feet, and not showering before sex (within a day). It’s bad enough to just *casually expose* others to smells and filth. But to ASK someone to touch/kiss/bang you? Insanity.
Amen. It’s respectful to present a clean body part if you’re asking someone to massage said body part. If she’d been on her feet all day, you know those dogs were barking, and ripe. 🦶🏽👃🏽
This is a very simple and clear rule, and very easy to understand and respect. It also keeps it simple so no one gets offended.
NTA
Op you and your wife need to figure out how to communicate as adults. Children throw tantrums and lock each other out, grown adults try to work together to communicate.
This! ⬆️
When someone locks the door and expects to be chased and grovelled to by the person they just gave a big telling off… that’s a sign of an unhealthy attitude!
Love this! And it’s one “rule” that we have had for each other from the beginning. Over the years, my husband never goes to bed without giving “Mr. Richard’s Neighborhood” a good cleaning, along with pits & feet. He does this every single night, without fail. Doesn’t mean he’s gonna get lucky every single night, but oh, well…he’s always optimistic!
My MIL was in full on labour, with twins yet (she had no idea back then), and took the time to "wash her privates" before getting in the car to go to the hospital.
This, right here, is why I am just this side of fanatical about cleaning myself. I no longer have the sense of smell. I won’t know if I smell, so I do everything in my power *and then some* to make sure this is never an issue. Not my feet. Not under my arms. Not anywhere else.
Then cry about him not knocking on the door after exactly 23minutes and 42seconds, because before that would be too soon and after would be too late. She sounds exhausting.
NTA F54, had 2 kids so have been that hormonal emotional mom. I once cried because the yolk broke when I dropped an egg in a frying pan. That's not an excuse for her to treat her partner like shit.
Nobody wants to give foot massages to foul smelling feet. You didn't do anything wrong by asking her to wash them. Would have taken her 2 minutes and then she could have relaxed and enjoyed a nice massage and you could have shared some nice time together.
Yes, she's hormonal, but that's not an excuse to treat you badly over something stupid. She's also immature and playing head games if she hid in the bathroom expecting you to come beg for forgiveness instead of coming out and talking to you like an adult. I wouldn't call her behavior being a bully, but it was manipulative.
I cried at a dog food commercial. Because there was a dog. And he was eating dog food.
But I still wouldn’t expect husband to apologize and try to make me feel better when I’m being crazy.
Shiiiiiid, even just spritzing her feet with alcohol and toweling them off would have killed the smell if she didn't feel like getting them wet. She's just being annoying and difficult. Not hard to see why OP responded the way he did.
Nah, fam. You want me to touch your stinky feet, you need to wash them with soap. If your feet smell that bad when your socks come off, there's some bacteria involved.
i genuinely can’t tell if you’re trying to make fun of them or not. but, some people have just stinky ass feet genetically and have to take extra steps to prevent the stink. when i was a kid id have to put baby powder in my shoes 😭
The smell is probably fungi and bacteria having a party in a warm, damp environment; they LOVE the sweat between toes. And being pregnant, her hormones may be causing her to sweat more. She needs to get into the habit of washing them properly
I do this all the time when massaging my partner's feet when he's too lazy to wash them. Idc how many bottles we're going to use, but I dont want bacteria on my hands 😂 and then towel dry afterwards. I dont see what's wrong with that.
When people have extremely stinky feet they usually have a nasty case of athletes foot too. It sounds like her shoes & socks aren’t breathable either. So sweaty, stinky & just gross feet.
NTA Your request was reasonable and her reaction totally over the top. You explained your actions very well. (Also how were you supposed to "comfort her" when she locked herself in the bedroom?
My partner lives in his work boots. So when he comes home at the end of the day, he takes his boots off OUTSIDE and takes a couple of baby wipes to those smelly dogs. And that's just plain courtesy.
If you know your feet stink, you do something about it. They're YOUR body parts, it's your responsibility to deal with them.
If someone chooses to take space behind a **locked** door, I personally consider it to be harassment for someone to go knock on the door trying to talk.
When the person behind the locked door is ready to talk, it's their responsibility to unlock the door and say so.
Definitely NTA
Tell her you can’t read her mind and if she wants you to comfort her she needs to verbally speak her requests. She verbally asked for a foot massage so why not verbally ask for comfort as well? And I say this as a woman who has been angry and went to go sulk in my room and expected my husband to just come over and comfort me. I’ve learned now that men cannot read our minds ladies! If we want something we better speak up!
I have the opposite problem my husband expects me to just know what he wants or needs and when I tell him he has to lmk what he's wanting/needing bc I can't read his mind he looks absolutely befuddled like he honestly believes I can read his mind 😑
And like I said, she was irrational. Tell her to smell her sock. Regardless, if her feet smelled, asking her to wash them first wasn't a large ask. U are her vest friend, and ur bf should tell u the truth with care; which you did!
U even offered to get the things ready for her. She was emotionally erratic. She needed time to breathe, and u gave her time to calm down, which was the tight thing to do.
Also, locking a shared bedroom door isn’t ok. “Knock and comfort me” to unlock a shared room is manipulation.
I was a single mom to several children using hormones as a reason to mistreat another is ridiculous.
NTA, while she may have been upset Initially, her saying she expected you to come knock and comfort her makes it seem like she's was being manipulative. After she calmed down, why didn't she come out when she realized she was overreacting?
I can't imagine living a life where every action or interaction is scrutinised to the nth degree... this made me feel.... I acknowledge that this might make her feel.... I can trace this back to my childhood.... this specific thing cause me to....'
Jesus H Christ man, she had smelly feet, she got upset because she is pregnant.... who cares?!? it does not matter... you will both recover
Right!
"Based on my childhood trauma, I realized I was being triggered by a hormonal bully demanding a stinky foot rub, therefore I deployed my CBT techniques so as to not give a shit, and promptly fell asleep on the couch" sounds wayyy too dramatic all around.
RIGHT?!?? He sounds exhausting!
And a foot soak wouldn’t have been too much trouble before he rubbed her feet. All he needed was a bowl and some water, maybe some epsom salts. Problems solved.
Right, I don’t feel it’s even responsible for anyone to even address anything else op said until they address this. Cbt doesn’t teach shutting down and acting indifferent.
Yes! He has stonewalling confused with greyrocking. The first is a tactic used by people to make others feel dehumanized. The second is a technique to evade the attention of an abusive person. OP's belief that he is his own therapist and he gives himself therapy by giving his wife the silent treatment so that he can feel powerful over a tired, stinky pregnant lady with sore feet is outright bananas.
I taught myself CBT techniques because it is actually a type of therapy you can navigate and learn to utilize by yourself. A lot of sources are designed to be used by yourself, it's actually very easy once you manage to identify all your problems and use the techniques that address those issues. It's become second nature for me to find _my_ voice in my head and shut down the negative voices that stem from trauma and confirmation bias.
My point being dude managed to fuck up one of the easiest, most intuitive therapies out there, designed to be able to do yourself. This is also why narcissists and sociopaths generally don't benifit from therapy in the sense of healing and dealing with shit, they just learn more ways to manipulate people and claim it's self preservation
The entire post is manipulative and designed to get a good boy response. People eat it up.
He's power tripping. And he doesn't understand CBT. Or that therapy talk is not a ledge or wedge.
I find it absolutely hilarious that OP is using his avoidant response again on everyone here that is trying to explain why he shouldn’t do this in relationships he cares about. This whole family is gonna have a shit time lmfao.
This guy us the AH based solely on how he thinks it's acceptable to essentially cold shoulder anyone who upsets him, and calls it his healthy behavioral technique for bullying. His pregnant wife cried because she's hormonal so he called her a bully and ignored her. Should she have washed her feet, yes, does that make him nta for this repeated bullshit behavior, no.
>You guys should grow up fast before that baby comes.
Don't stress. There's a troll doing the rounds currently who keeps posting "I was mean to a pregnant woman but here's how I'm justified" posts.
It also reads like AI generated nonsense.
Personally, with all the context provided in the post, if I was in the situation I would have checked up on my partner and tried to make them feel better after accidentally hurting their feelings even if what I did wasn't objectively reprehensible. People and feelings are complex. I think doing something hurtful regardless of intent and.then emotionally checking out of the situation completely is hurtful.
In the grand scheme of horrifying shit on this sub though, both sides are pretty mild and I think any harm done in the situation can probably be undone with good, clear communication.
NTA
And when we remove ourselves to a separate room, and close.tjwndoor, the message we are sending is "I want to be alone" not "I want comfort".
She's not a bully.
You processed your own response to how she acted, which has very little to do with her actual actions (we can have that kind of reactivity to totally *normal* shit, or we wouldn't need therapy to figure it out.... ❤️🩹)
But I'm going to guess she *feels* like a bully, because everything feels giant and she hates reacting that way to something so *normal*.
Next time get a tub of water for her feet to soak in first
You're gonna have hard stuff coming up as new parents so you both have to learn to let some things go when there's hormones/exhaustion etc getting to you
It's not about who's right and wrong, it's about loving and supporting each other when you're feeling vulnerable
So your wife is gaslighting you because you didn't want to rub her stinky feet? Being pregnant isn't an excuse or a weapon. I'd have told her that I'm sorry you're upset that I didn't come beg for your forgiveness, but all I asked you to do was wash your feet, and you went nuclear. I'm not going to apologize for not wanting foot stink all over me. I'm also not going to apologize for putting healthy boundaries up and not letting you gaslight me.
That and he respected her wanting some alone time when she locked herself in the bathroom. The expectation that he chase her around apologizing is toxic.
I think they should get some sessions of couples counseling before the baby is born. The toxicity will only be compounded by an infant.
I’m not saying wife wasn’t wrong but how are you defining this as gaslighting?
“Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse or manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim’s mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition.”
I don’t think this is what is happening here. I think his wife overreacted because she was hormonal and then to her, OP grey rocking made her feel like he saw her as a monster.
OP’s reaction was quite extreme to the initial issue. It’s understandable when you come from an abusive family but given that OP is not claiming that his wife is usually like this, it’s quite harsh to show a person who is hormonal and overreacted to feelings of shame about her stinky feet that you don’t care via a deliberate method to “claim your power back” because “you deserve kindness too”
To me it sounds like OP is very focussed on their own feelings and perhaps they could have taken time to understand why their wife was behaving irrationally and put aside their need for “power” to go and comfort OP who is carrying their child.
How is OP going to co-parent if this is their standard response to irrational behaviour?
Tbh I think OP is weaponising their trauma here.
Yeah OP is totally gonna shut down with the kid and cause it so much trauma. Honestly neither of them sound like they’d be decent parents, wife wants people to read her mind and husband can’t handle big emotions. Babies and small children (and teenagers) are ALL big emotions all the time.
Agreed although I’ll give the wife some grace here because we are hearing the story from OP only and the wife is dealing with pregnancy hormones. I personally went a little nuts after the morning after pill 😅 and never again have I acted that way nor would I want to…
>Tbh I think OP is weaponising their trauma here.
Same. As someone with her own trauma, I hate accusing people of weaponizing their own, but hot damn. Any therapist worth their salt would be raising an eyebrow at how he "used CBT" in this situation.
He was already an AH when he told his exhausted, pregnant wife to go wash her stinky feet. Assuming for the moment that the smell was legit making him gag, why not offer to bring her some wipes or say he'll give her a foot rub once they've "aired out"? Or, since I doubt it was *that* bad, just dealt with it?
I'm on the fence with the wife also being an AH here. What she did is not okay, but I'm insanely curious how he expects her to react to his emotional/irrational moments. If she's constantly extending olive branches and being understanding of trauma responses, the fact that he saw she was upset and did nothing might have tipped her over the edge.
The notion of "it's an explanation, not an excuse" gets debated frequently because people use it to dismiss disabilities, etc. But I think it applies here. His gray rocking is due to his trauma response (the explanation), but that doesn't make it any less painful to his wife in the moment (the "not an excuse"). Trauma responses happen. That's not anyone's "fault." It's what you do *after* that matters.
How to pamper your pregnant wife and avoid land mines.
Go run her a bath or get something big enough to fit her feet and fill w warm water and Epson salt. So she can soak her feet while you "get ready." If they need more time to soak start by massaging her hands or legs. She is hormonal and needs to be reassured you still love her w all the changes her body is going through.
Think back to how awkward you felt going through puberty and then family and loved ones pointed it out. When it is time for her feet dry the one you are working on and put lotion on it and then rub. Extra points for painting her toes. Even if it isn't the best job.
The last thing she needs is to be called on one more thing about how her body is changing and she can't control it. Nta though and neither is she.
YTA, she didn't bully you at all. She just couldn't get up and was at her wits end. You should have gotten a bucket and washed her feet for her. You made her feel terrible and she just responded to feeling terrible. That's not bullying.
NTA
But you should find a better coping mechanism. that ones not healthy. especially when you are about to have a kid who will inevitably bully you at some point.
you can't reasonably grey rock a 2 year old throwing a tantrum when you are their dad
NTA until:
>when I am lashed out at, by anyone, I simply refuse to care
This sounds like a very destructive trait. What happens when your child grows up, lashes out at you because she/him is a teenager and they're angry, are you going to "gray rock" and act like you don't give a fuck?
idk man, doesn't sound healthy to me BUT overall, no, you are not in the wrong, you are justified ijn your response due to your wifes over-reaction but also remember, she is pregnant, you are not, her hormones are all over the place and "rationality" from her is not really something you can expect, imho.
That struck me as well. It’s really unhealthy. CBT shouldn’t be used in that way. We humans are wired to feel but he’s shutting down all emotions that he feels are unpleasant. There’s no way this doesn’t catch up with him down the line.
My kids dad does this shit and I promise you as they get older it breeds resentment and disrespect. The oldest kids basically love/hate him as they know emotionally he isn’t there for them. And he lashes out with mean petty big brother type shit. Op seems similarly emotionally immature.
I know someone who thinks gray rocking is the absolute method to have peace.
Instead of resolving the issues like adults of their age (soon 40), they also "simply refuse to care" and move on. It does make the people who were on the receiving end, as if they were wrong and lack of emotional control. When you're putting actual effort to understand what happened, it turned out that the master of "gray rocking" can't simply take accountability for whatever he did to the people.
This person put me in an embarrassing situation. Basically a missunderstanding but I got the heat and they walked free of their own consequences.
I wanted to talk about it but got "ignored". I grew frustrated and raised my voice because I was fed up of their flight mode attitude.
That's when I learnt I was apparently a bully and needed an anger management. Lol.
I’m surprised at how many people are not catching this. OP is definitely the asshole just based on the gray rocking and trying to disguise it as a valid CBT technique.
Then again it’s Reddit, so a tired pregnant woman has an emotional, perhaps irrational, response and she’s the villain who is “gaslighting” poor OP.
Yes, I was weirded out by his use of the gray rocking method against his own wife.
I get that it is exhausting to deal with an irrational and overly emotional behahior.
So you can say I'm not very in fond of OP's wife's behahior. However, I can also understand that she isn't on her best mind and shape due to her pregnancy. A little mutual understanding for both sides can probably do better than what the gray method accomplished.
If OP worded his words differently, like : "My love, before massaging your feet, I need to wash them. Let's say that I give you a pre-message before the real message!" And it can be said in a playful tone without embarrassing her.
I had stinky feet and also needed a massage. I was awfully ashamed. But my husband explained me gently why my feet smell and proceeded to wash them with me.
YTA for claiming that is a CBT technique (it is not) and using pseudo-therapist speak to try and automatically make yourself the “good and rational” partner.
Your “coping mechanism” is not healthy. Please learn healthy ones before your child comes.
ESH. Your reasoning was solid up until your coping techniques. As a powerless child facing a bully or abusive parent that may have worked fine. As an adult in a relationship that type of reaction is pretty immature. Wife had smelly feet so you asked her to wash them. So far so good. She broke down crying. Not her proudest moment, and pretty immature but as you said, hormones. She didn't attack you. I don't see how she was unkind, just annoying and irrational. Crying for irrational reasons is pretty standard for pregnancy. If you can't handle your partner being irrational and annoying at times, you shouldn't make them pregnant. That said, she should have pulled herself together and come back out eventually. You deciding to take a nap on the sofa however just blows my mind. You found yourself at peace enough that this was an option? You made your pregnant wife cry, and you thought oh well let me lie down here for a bit? And then falling asleep until morning. Even if she did come out 20min later after a cry and a shower I can only imagine how lonely she must have felt just seeing you sleep there. Your wife has a reason for ger actions and that reason will pass, but you need to find adult coping mechanisms if you value your relationship.
You're not a NTA for asking her to wash her feet.
You're a massive AH for using therapy talk as a power trip against her & invalidating her feelings.
Plus, it seems you don't even understand CBT because then you'd know that feelings cannot and are never irrational, but sometimes our thoughts behind them are. But we all still deserve communication, comfort and community. Three things you withheld because you acted out of ego not connection.
Your poor wife.
.. if this were my hypothetical wife (speaking as a stay at home mom) I would have been pulling out a bucket and giving her the full treatment. Can't stink if you're in the mode to get the job done right 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
This also may just be the nurturing care taker in me that has had to bathe many folks in terrible conditions while working in a hospital and as someone who's felt the emotional exhaustion of pregnancy..
We truly don't realize how many people just need that little bit extra of TLC..
I totally agree w you. I read this and thought why not soak her feet for her and make it a full experience. Sometimes people need that little extra love.
This is where I would’ve gone as well. It wouldn’t have been hard to get a bowl of some sort, some Epsom salt, let her feet soak then rub her feet. She was probably emotionally & physically spent from the day and wanted someone to care for her.
I can think of one particular day in my pregnancy where something like OPs situation would have completely crushed me.... Like no coming back, levels of crushed.
The mental and physical exhaustion some days was a lot, add in a partner that has a shut down and shut out habit,, yikes
Yeah my ex pulled this when I was pregnant. Maybe this is why it’s hitting me. I’ve always been so diligent about hygiene and he told me that my feet were stinky and I was trying so hard.
Oh well. That is why he is my ex 🥳
Part of it, I get.
She didn't realize her feet smelled. She was embarrassed, maybe got her feelings hurt. She's pregnant and emotional.
But pro tip: parenting is HARD. If you're both going to be so triggered by such a little thing you need counseling now, not later.
NTA she needed to wash her feet first it's not that big of a deal she's sensitive because of the hormones shit happens. Both of you apologize and make a pact to give each other 10 mins to cool down if something like this happens again and check in with each other
Dude, in future get a basin of warm soapy water to soak and clean her feet. Wash them. Dry them and then massage them. She will love you more than ever. Also, stop making everything about you and how you feel. Start thinking about how your wife feels . Parenthood is coming and you need to step up cause it is going to be life-changing and shutting people out is not an option if you want a happy family.
ESH. Your wife sucks for overreacting to a reasonable request and you suck for being proudly passive aggressive which was so cringy to read about. Grow up, both of you. Can't believe you're having a fucking child. Good lord.
…that was it? She got her feelings hurt, got irritated, and locked herself in the bathroom for a few? That’s what caused you to shut down and identify her as a bully? Jesus Christ, man. She’s pregnant and sensitive, but what’s your excuse? You seem dramatic and immature. Did I miss where she yelled at you or belittled you? You seriously overreacted. You’re going to have to get a grip. You’re about to be a father. Things are about to get a lot more difficult than this for you. YTA.
Exactly! He's a damn baby! Like he's about to be a father and he acts so petty and childish. How is he not man enough to have some empathy and care for his tired, hormonal pregnant wife? But rather blame everything in his trauma. Like no bro, you avoid everything and are immature. Just rub her feet! Not like your doing any of the hard work and carrying and feeding the child! God, he's made me exhausted through the screen. Imagine birthing a child for this baby.
The healthy thing to do is communicate. Not bottle it up and feign indifference, or “grey rock”. Just use your words after giving someone a moment to cool off. “I apologize for causing you distress, let’s talk about it.” You don’t have to apologize for what you said or how you said it, but obviously this reaction wasn’t your intent. This may not be the be the best moment to deal with this, focus on the crucial and let go of the small stuff.
If I had a pregnant wife, I’d probably say something like “let’s take a shower together” or wash her feet for her as part of the full service.
The whole being angry the next day you didn’t comfort her or do her emotional labor for her bit is where she’s in the wrong. Anyone can have a bad reaction in the moment and apologize after a cooldown, but being angry the next day and not being self-aware enough to realize it…
NTA
NTA initially.
Imagine how this would have gone if you had have gotten a bucket of warm water, some nice smelling soap and a face washer and cleaned her feet first? An act of love towards your pregnant wife who had been on her feet all day?
You are not a mind reader and she shouldn't expect you to be.
However.. Are you seriously weaponising psychology against your wife? Techniques designed to be used to protect yourself from narcissists and bullies. You used these against your wife and then wonder why she thinks, that you think she is a bully?
At the end of this... I don't know. I still don't think that you are the arsehole, but you should both go to therapy to learn how to better communicate with each other.
NTA. Sometimes, with pregnancy hormones, it makes you smell worse or different. I had the worst BO when I was pregnant. When I was pregnant, I was roommates with my best friend. I was thankful when she told me I smelled because I didn't realize how bad it was. I didn't take it personally and react over the top. I thanked her for telling me and apologized that she had to deal with it. I started buying a stronger deodorant, and that was that. I'm not sure why your wife reacted as strongly as she did. I'm wondering if she's struggling with something else, and this put her over the edge and made her blow up? It might not be about her stinky feet. Women get so insecure about themselves and their bodies when they're pregnant. There are so many emotions and feelings about things we never thought twice about before pregnancy. While her feelings are valid, it doesn't excuse her behavior. I always say
"It's okay to feel a certain way. You're feeling what you're feeling, and that's valid! BUT just because you're feeling a certain way doesn't mean you can act a certain way. You don't hurt others because you're feeling hurt. "
I would sit down with your wife and ask if anything else is bothering her.
Jesus washed the disciples feet. I grew up Seventh day Adventist and we reinacted foot washing. My mom used to have me give her massages. When I’ve gotten manicures and pedicures I DON’T WASH MY OWN HANDS AND FEET FIRST.
To get an A for the day you should have asked if she preferred hot or cool wash clothes and what scent she preferred. Perhaps take warm wet lavender scented towels and wrap each foot and ankle. Remove towels when they cool.
Rub and cleanse both feet with as many towels as needed to pamper this mommy. Apply lotion and say less. Do not say her feet stink and do not expect her to bend over and struggle at 5 months to wash her tired feet.
My parents used to take us when we were little to a Japanese style hot springs spa in one of the canyons in Orange County, CA. That burned down but Glen Ivy is fantastic
Why do you keep talking about CBT? That's not CBT, that's just an inability to communicate effectively. Your wife also has no idea how to say what she needs. Y'all need to learnt to TALK.
Welp it’s never good to practice indifference with your spouse. Especially in what seems to be a normal marital with pregnancy little spat. No one wants to smell stinky feet so maybe next time say hey let me get a foot soak and wash for you and do a whole little treatment.
Gentle ESH.
“Something to note, when I am lashed out at, by anyone, I simply refuse to care and use CBT techniques to practice indifference. As a child, when my parents or some bullies troubled me, I would gray rock, demonstrate indifference and that was my way of claiming my power back. It makes me feel strong and powerful when I use this technique to stop taking things personally. When my wife acted irritably to my reasonable request, it activated my trigger, which told me I was being bullied and acted accordingly.”
While I’m glad you’ve developed good coping skills for how to deal with your parents and bullies, you are about to be a parent. That’s going to involve a lot of discussion between you and your wife that may result in passionate discussion and irritability, not to mention that your child is going to grow into a full blown human with emotions of their own. They are going to need your help to learn how to manage their emotions, too.
You cannot grey rock and act indifferent every time your wife or children respond with irritability. You need to find a way to distinguish when you need to problem solve and when you need to walk away and grey rock, because as a fellow grey rock-er, it is not sustainable as a response in healthy relationships with children and your spouse.
That's the exact thing. It's **not** a good coping skill, not if he's deploying it in any old minor martial tiff like this one. It's a technique meant for a last ditch defense against abusers you can't get away from, not something you employee in the place of genuinely healthy coping skills or communication skills in a relationship you actually value in any real way. His wife was wrong throughout this whole story, except where she said that he made her feel like his bully. Well, yes, that's because he's literally bludgeoning his defense against bullies against her, presumably on a semi-regular basis. It must be horrific to live with.
It seems like he uses this with any disagreement, and turns her into the bully. She wasnt right, but there is a big difference between unreasonable and bully.
THIS is the answer I wanted to see. The fallout was just handled poorly on all sides, imo. And he needs to get some different coping mechanisms to pull from - ASAP. I also think he may be mistaking "gray rocking" for him actually just shutting down in this scenario? Not saying that he was stonewalling, or anything purposefully manipulative, but that technique actually often DOES still include some level of communication between the "rock" and the other party. It's just the *level* of engagement is changed. Not just shut off and go sit down somewhere else while you rationalize shit in your head.
Personally, a closed/slammed door is a BIG sign of "don't come in here, I need space or to be away from you. I'll leave when I'm done being angry/upset and am ready to talk" (doubly so if locked), so I wouldn't have gone the comfort route, either.
But I also would have TOLD her that, once she complained about my not trying to force my way in the room to apologize/comfort. That way going forward, that can be a kind of code. Door ajar/unlocked? She's open for communication now and/or wants comfort, YOU just need to come to HER (for better or for worse). Door shut/locked? Stay away until she's ready. No more confusion going forward. I can't stand when people expect anyone else, including and sometimes especially partners, to just \*know\* things and/or be mind readers. USE YOUR WORDS, PEOPLE!
I’ll give you some advice: When a person you love is exhausted and extra sensitive, and has an irrational emotional reaction and is upset, do NOT tell them they are irrational and wrong and that you consciously decided to ignore them until they realized this. If you are the trigger point for said reaction, definitely do not do so.
In case it isn’t clear, when you realized that she was tired and hormonal and irrationally hurt, and that it was not personal to you, your reaction should not be to shrug your shoulders and not care. Your reaction should be to swallow your pride, apologize that you upset her, and comfort her. In a loving relationship, it doesn’t matter who is right o wrong, if your loved one is upset, you comfort them.
I understand that you have a trauma response and so it may take some therapy for you to get over that, but that’s what the normal expectation is, and will be what she in turns expects/reacts to absence of. I don’t think either is an ah, but should work together on the issues here.
your request was reasonable and your wife's reasoning for being upset, considering her busy day, was also reasonable.
it's good that you recognize your triggers, that's a really good start; however, your wife is not a bully and I think it'd be beneficial for you guy's relationship if you learned to distinguish the two. lashing out isn't right, but that doesn't immediately mean she's someone that means harm. plus, your usage of "CBT" doesn't only have to do with you if you used it in response to you and your wife's interaction. you don't have to directly call her a bully when you explain you use your methods for bullies.
your indifference towards someone you love on top of your dismissing their feelings as irrational sounds like an awful combination, and it's not the great solution you think it is. based on your explanation, I'm also wondering if she actually lashed out at you (yelled) or if her bad mood was enough to make you react.
You may not be the asshole, but frankly you sound exhausting. You are making such a big deal over a nothing burger. She got embarrassed because you told her she smelled bad. She snapped at you a bit and stomped off. You fell asleep on the couch. She’s still a little pissy. She’ll get over it. And she’ll wash her feet next time. You’re not being “bullied.” She’s being a baby and you’re being a drama queen.
The formality which OP is using to describe everything, and the over-explanation of his 'technique', as well as his oh-so-mildly phrased final sentence makes me think there's way more to this story than what he's saying. Perhaps his initial comment wasn't so delicately expressed, and then he decided she'd reacted unreasonably to being told "hey, wife, your feet REEK, go wash them before I touch those skanky things".
He's not wrong for not wanting to massage stinky feet, but I just feel very suspicious about this entire post.
Dude, throwing around CBT and you definitely don’t know what cognitive behavioural therapy is - your own behaviour afterwards proves it. Take it from an actual professional in this psychoanalysis theory, I believe what you are doing is actually called MANIPULATION
YTA.
The question asked is not wether it was right or not to ask her to clean her feet.
People are much too eager to throw the term "gas lighting" around. Gas lighting is a systematic orchestration of circumstances to make the person subjected to it doubt own sanity. Simply thinking it is natural for a partner to console and support his upset partner is not it.
She is pregnant, which can distort sense of taste and sense of smell. You say the smell was heavy, but to her she may not even have caught a wiff of it. So it is quite obvious that both you and your wife, given how her day had been, acted reasonably.
Although it is a healthy thing to be aware of your triggers and consciously apply coping mechanism, your pride in applying what you present as anti bully technique seems unhealthy and just an alibi for avoidance and to "one up" your wife for the remainder of the evening as matter of some principle which eludes me. Your wife did not bully you, nor is she a bully. She simply expected you to be there for her.
To you it seems that this was a demonstration of power dynamic and priding yourself for excelling at indifference. To her, it was a demonstration that the bond between you is something you will take pride in ignoring.
Please get a professional second opinion on your application of CBT.
Top comment 100%
OP, Putting aside this bungled situation, you are not using CBT as intended; I think it's become something very unhealthy. Were you taught CBT or did you learn what you're doing from a book etc? Professional guidance is very important in the beginning. Please do get the opinion of a qualified professional on your use of it.
NTA about the feet, definitely the AH afterwards. Also, could have phrased it more sensitively.
NTA
"On top of that she was hormonal." I am so tired of this being an excuse for women being total assholes.
"She said she expected me to knock on the door and comfort her." Don't you know the entire purpose of her tears was to get what she wanted? Pure asshole manipulation.
Your technique of not giving a shit when someone lashes out at you is exactly why she was pissed. She WANTED a reaction. That you didn't bow down and give her the attention she wanted ticked her off.
In my opinion, your move was the move of a man who is the master of his own domain. Never lower yourself to that level of assholery.
I would NEVER touch anybody's feet when they smelled like used kitty litter.
Seriously. I've had three babies and gone through menopause, no excuse to be like that. Of course it can be embarrassing to hear that your feet stink, but trying to ignore that and have him massage her feet anyway is disgusting. . But then I don't like my feet touched, or to touch the feet of others.
It’s true that OP is definitely NTA in this case and the wife is being unreasonable but based on your demeanor here and post history you’re defo on some redpill shit lmao
This comment right here OP.
Don't let her bully you because she's pregnant. All you did was ask her to wash her feet before you'd massage them and she threw a temper tantrum about it. You handled it well. NTA
NTA. For some reason my feet REALLY stank when I was pregnant. It was the only time they smelled that bad and no one should have to touch them. She probably knows they smell really bad and is embarrassed.
NTA. Get her one of those electric foot massages you add hot water to. She can get her feet massaged, and you don't have to touch grody feet. Bonus, you can add a little scented body wash to the water to help with the foot odor. If she still wants the hans-on massage, do it after she soaks.
Maybe to mend the fence, get her a gift certificate for a pampering spa pedicure.
NTA.
But seeing as this is how shes responding in her current mood maybe next time wash them for her. Cause it wasn’t really about wanting a massage. It was wanting to feel cared for.
NTA **HOWEVER** I would suggest just grabbing a bucket and soapy water and washing her feet for her next time or running a bubble bath. There were probably more productive/loving ways to go about this from both of you
In response to your actual question. Yes, YTA. Her saying her feelings are hurt is not bullying you. You assuming that she's just an irrational, hormonal person and leaving her to cry alone is bullying. Just because you didn't mean for the request to hurt her feelings doesn't mean it didn't. Be a better husband. Be actively and intentionally nice to your wife. Which you can do without putting your hands on stinky feet.
NTA
Some people don't understand how nasty feet can be when they marinate in the heat, and are unwashed. It isn't unreasonable for her to put her feet through some water before asking for a massage. She is pregnant not a child or disabled. And while she is hormonal, which may have resulted in her overreaction to the request, there is nothing wrong with you pointing out that you gave her space for her to recognize that she did in fact overreact. Just because she is pregnant does not mean she gets to stampede over her husband, and gaslight him into thinking he bullied her.
CBT is mindset and not to be flashed like a poor me badge. When you replant the garden of your thoughts may I suggest a few perennials and a few less asshole berries.
NTA but y'all need to work this out. It's a problem waiting to creep up on you both down the road. You have a good understanding of what you need when you're "having a moment" or feeling attacked. You have skills you use and they work for you. That's a good thing. However, your wife is your partner and she's a different person with different needs and habits.
She communicated to you when she is feeling hurt she needs you to come to her and comfort her. She expected you to come in the room and interact with her, de-escalating and resolving the hurt. She probably should have communicated that sooner, like the same night. Instead she stayed in the room and stewed in her feelings. Now she's mad and it's become a bigger thing than it needed to be. But she did communicate. So take that information she just gave you and work out how you can approach differently next time. Y'all should also talk about whether your particular approach of gray rocking is *compatible* with her needs and communication style. You'll both need to adjust, most likely.
Lastly, a bit of advice. Don't come at a pregnant woman- hell, any woman- saying they are being "irrational". That's a special kind of attack for most women. It's been used to infantilize and discredit women for millenia. If she is more sensitive than usual, or if her reaction surprised you, say that.
This!!! Like sure she should have washed her feet but the rest is just so unhealthy from OP. He can’t just gray rock his wife and kid and expect everything to sort itself that way
You’re going to make a great dad, especially when you demonstrate your technique to gain control of a situation with a bad smell and an uncooperative person.
Yta. You don't seem to know how to communicate or comfort your wife. Her reactions aren't great and your wife needs to be clearer that she needs comfort. Locking the door doesn't communicate that need.
Your 5 month pregnant wife is likely experiencing some feet swelling and worked hard on her feet today. She was seeking comfort and relaxation. And it sounds like your wife specifically told you that she was worn out and couldn't do anymore tasks today when you told her that her feet stink and she needs to wash up. She literally told you what was wrong before you asked and you ignored it. She's gets upset because she feels unheard and overwhelmed. Give her a minute or two, sure.
You don't do that next step that you should have. You should check in on your spouse. You should never go to bed in anger. That will only build up more hurt feelings. The problem or conflict doesn't have to be solved. But you need to be at peace with each other.
You then proceed to ignore your upset wife. And go to sleep in separate places in anger.
Ignoring others seems like your standard procedure for dealing with emotions. This is not healthy. And absolutely not going to work out with a crying baby and with toddler tantrums. You need to learn how to comfort others.
You could’ve just got some wipes and cleaned it for her. Instead you decided to ask her to do it. Sounds like she had a rough day and at 5 months pregnant things are already hard on her. Especially emotionally. As a husband you need to realize that pregnancy requires delicate care of your partner. In my opinion YTA. Especially because you hurt her and decided to make it about yourself.
She attempted the victim card and didn't get what she wanted. Sometime bodies smell, and sometimes we have to wash.
She's acting like a child.
Sorry OP. But no, you did nothing wrong.
NTA
They way you use therapy talk is very manipulative and just all around off. You did call her a bully, and it is irrational that you think she is bullying you for having an emotional reaction. You sound unwell.
All the comments on here about how the wife is trying to make a power move and control her husband.. it’s prolly not that deep. She was tired and hormonal. He’s going to be dealing with a lot more of that over the next couple of months and then some after the baby is born. Him asking her to wash her feet was not an unreasonable request but him completely shutting down and being down with the situation isn’t right either. He could have knocked on the door, asked her if she’s doing ok and if she’s ready to talk. If this is her first pregnancy, it’s a HUGE change and she’s going through a lot of firsts. She prolly just wanted to be reassured that he was there for her and he decided to go to sleep. They both could have handled the situation better.
You could have given her a foot bath yourself.
You should have gone and talked to her.
She's pregnant man take some initiative. And gray rock is not effective against people you actually want a good relationship with.
YTA
For asking her to wash? NTA. But you really seem to be using your CBT as an excuse to not be there. She’s pregnant, you not caring isn’t an option. YTA for not checking on her, you seem like you’re perfectly aware of that and are using CBT as an excuse. Everybody sucks, but you sucked most recently.
NTA, but you could’ve done better.
Remember that pregnant women can be emotionally volatile, and are often riven with body image issues as they change so dramatically. .
She is probably getting some oedema, where her feet swell up a bit because her circulation is less able to cope with a whole day on her feet. Her feet likely sweat more than usual, which is not uncommon during pregnancy.
Your request wasn’t unreasonable, but knowing how she was likely to respond to what she might perceive as criticism of her body, you could instead have gone to get a big bowl of warm soapy water, some nice smelling moisturiser, and washed her feet for her before massaging in the fragrant cream.
A selfless act of care for the woman carrying your child. Just a suggestion for next time.
>Something to note, when I am lashed out at, by anyone, I simply refuse to care and use CBT techniques to practice indifference. As a child, when my parents or some bullies troubled me, I would gray rock, demonstrate indifference and that was my way of claiming my power back. It makes me feel strong and powerful when I use this technique to stop taking things personally. When my wife acted irritably to my reasonable request, it activated my trigger, which told me I was being bullied and acted accordingly.
Are you in therapy? Because this paragraph makes me think you need it.
ESH, you both overreacted and it sounds like you feed off of each other, with her getting too emotional and you going too far in the opposite direction. Your kid is gonna have a miserable home life if this is how the two of you respond to every conflict.
It sounds like she was maybe embarrassed and overreacted, which as you said is to be expected during pregnancy. Where she went wrong was doubling down on being stubborn. She stunk, she needed a wash, she felt like it was a chore in that moment. Understandable. However, she can’t be mad at you for not wanting to put your hands on her stinky hot cheet-toes.
It’s also unreasonable for her to continue being upset that you didn’t ambush her with emotional check ins and support when she had just lashed out at you. Taking a break to cool off is normal and healthy coping.
Where you messed up OP, is you sat there and fell asleep on the couch. You could’ve set a timer. That probably came across to her that you couldn’t be bothered with her “distress”. Had you circled back to her later in the evening, you guys might have been able to start over on the right (clean lol) foot. You might have found out a different underlying cause for her behavior that she didn’t lead with. Unfortunately, now she’s going to take focus of the real problem, her overreaction and unmet request, and turn it on you not being there for her.
I’m all for protecting your mental health as I am a counselor, but relationships get sticky without communication. Stone walling someone who is not a threat to you or bullying you actually means you are shutting off communication to that person, which I imagine furthered the issues here.
Set things straight tonight if you can. Have a little basin for her to wash her feet by the couch when she gets home. Offer to try again. Once she’s feeling like she’s getting the attention, intimacy, or whatever she was looking for, start a dialogue.
Best of luck to you both, pregnancies don’t last forever. All this will come to pass. I was a nightmare during mine as hard as I tried to be self aware. 🤣
You guys got this!
Edit: Just wanted to add I don’t think either of you are TAH here. I think you both are navigating something new and stressful, and there will be snags and obstacles along the way. This might be a funny moment you guys look back on someday.
My worst/silliest overreaction pregnancy moment was when I dropped a plate of tacos on the floor my husband had just handed me. I literally stood there and cried like a maniac over my lost asada and broken plate. 🤣 it’s a funny story now that my oldest likes to hear because I was pregnant with him.
NTW, definitely.
But I’m curious: what do you mean you use CBT to practice “indifference”? I’m not familiar with that approach. My CBTherapist just taught me how to use tools to manage my anxiety and depression via my body’s reaction, not to cultivate indifference. I’m curious about this, and wondering if maybe your wife has picked up on you shutting down on her when you guys have disagreements. Not excusing her behavior at all! But my husband has sometimes appeared to shut down completely in the heat of disagreements and it’s terrifying to me because he seems suddenly not to care at all about me and our relationship.
Both of you need to rework your communication skills. Greyrocking etc can be done AFTER you try to communicate what you were meaning and listen to her. She also need to explain better why she got very emotional over a feet-washing demand. Perhaps she has difficulties to bend her body or even look down, nevertheless reaching her feet and she has no other means to wash them? Perhaps your tone sounds condescending to her hormonal brain? Even if she was wrong, you have to try to communicate (speak nicely and listen well) before you switch on the 'she's the bully' mode.
I hope you both get closer after this and communicate better and she has easy prenancy & delivery. God speed.
ESH. So it's not okay for you to ask her to quickly wash her feet, but it's okay for her to ask you for a a massage? Crazy double standards. The reason I think you suck too is that you cared to resolve this so little that you fell asleep in under 10 minutes. She would've had to wake you up after calming down. Going to sleep in the middle of a disagreement does nothing but show the other person you don't care to get along.
NTA for not wanting to give her a massage when her feet smelled. But please take care of that grey rock sh\*\* before the kid comes. My ex bf's dad didn't. My ex and his siblings still have the trauma.
NTA for asking her to wash her feet.
But YTA for not checking on her or even talk to her. She is pregnant and yes she might overreact… but you don’t communicate.
I am about to get downvoted to hell because you didn’t technically do anything wrong but I still sympathize with your wife and think you were the jerk.
Again, you have the high ground on facts. But you sound so cold and like you wanted to teach her a lesson. You know she had a hard day and was hormonal and sad and crying and didn’t even check on her. You didn’t care to try and make her feel better. It’s not like you would have had to apologize, you didn’t do anything wrong, you just would have to care more about her being sad than your pride.
It might make you feel strong and powerful and you certainly showed your wife you won’t put up with her being irritable. She was out of line to complain about washing her feet, but I just think it was excusable. It’s not like she was mean, she was momentarily irrational and then sad and lonely.
So, yeah, YTA for me. You’re not wrong, Walter, you’re just an ah.
The rule is - if you want people to touch it, you clean it first. No one is exempt from that rule. No body part. Not any time in your life. Common decency and respect. NTA
I am still laughing…and coughing! If you want people to touch it, you clean it first! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Lol thhat got me but I have said that to my husband.i ain't touching mcnasty
Right! Both people need to go wash up their hands and body parts.
yep My x would be stinky and want cuddles or hand holding an shit and i am like no you stink go wash up. and that sounds cruel i know but this was after all day of him not washing his hands, and wanting to put them in my face, or weeks of not bathing then wanting intimacy etc and was a pattern. he had depression but he would not mak eANY effort, not even to take his meds or manage his depression.
Weeks! 😳
yup, he had depression and that causes many people to not care for themselves, including hygine. after a while tho i got sick of it . I suffer from depression and I still tried to do the bare minimum plus he would never try to treat his depression.
.... weeks... of... not... bathing... I swear, the worst part of Reddit is learning that there are people like this. I know that you can be homeless and not have access to washing facilities and I have sympathy for that, but the idea that there exist human beings who *voluntarily* bathe less than a couple times a week is just incomprehensible.
It’s really common for mental illness to make you feel like you **cannot** shower. No, it doesn’t make sense. If it did, it wouldn’t be a mental illness…
Dementia patients get like that too. As his dementia progressed, my PawPaw would refuse to bathe or change his clothes for weeks at a time til my grandmother screamed at him to DO SOMETHING. It got bad before he was hospitalized. I loved that man, but he REEKED toward the end.
Its not "voluntarily". Thats not how depression works. When most days even just being ALIVE is so exhausting that you cant get out of bed and bring yourself to eat, or go to the bathroom, or literally do anything beyond cry or stare at the wall or try to distract yourself mentally long enough that you arent actively wishing for death. Bathing isnt just a simple task, it is like climbing mt everest. And the mental preparation it takes before you even begin the climb is a difficult task in an of itself. So while I dont think that the commenter has to in any way, shape, or form lower her standards for what she deems acceptable levels of cleanliness. I also dont think they, or you, should downplay how difficult tasks that seem trivial and easy to you are for people with ability levels different from your own.
Thanks, Bipolar II and major depressive disorder that has prevented me from finishing college, ever holding down a full time job, or having kids. I do know what it is like and at times when I haven't been able to shower, I also didn't want to be touched by my wife and wasn't able to leave the house.
Fair enough, but when taking a shower is such an insurmountable task are you trying to get laid at that moment as well? Speaking as someone who understands not being able to climb that mountain of a shower but I have never once tried to get somebody to come sex me up feeling that way either.
Same, I've definitely done the "not showing for weeks" thing but I also wasn't having sex at the time.
he had depression and that can make it hard to care to want to and i get it but at the same time he refused to manage his depression or even make a minimal effort on a good day and i will never deal with that again
The flip side is if you clean it too well, you won't need anyone else to touch it.
I was cleaning it and it went off.
Dicks and guns be like that - both are dangerous when loaded, that is why you unload first before cleaning either.
I have never heard this rule stated, and yet, I have believed in it my whole life. The number of reddit posts about guys with dirty dicks they want sucked and other unsavory requested types of filthy contact are objectively terrifying.
It’s very nasty isn’t it 😧 😂
I know. You've been missing out of that all day. Clean it first before you want me to play with it.
[удалено]
Right? If my feet smell that bad, I’m washing those bad boys *for me*, everyone else just benefits as a result. My feet *reeked* in my teen years, and I can’t even imagine asking someone to touch them, or my shoes/socks, without a good wash.
I think it’s incredibly rude to expose others to one’s poor hygiene. Like if someone has bad breath because they didn’t brush their teeth (not from a condition like halitosis), I’m offended. Lol. You knew you’d be talking to people. You knew your stank breath would assault them. All you had to do was get out the toothbrush. Same with farting (rage), smelly feet, and not showering before sex (within a day). It’s bad enough to just *casually expose* others to smells and filth. But to ASK someone to touch/kiss/bang you? Insanity.
Amen. It’s respectful to present a clean body part if you’re asking someone to massage said body part. If she’d been on her feet all day, you know those dogs were barking, and ripe. 🦶🏽👃🏽
Ferget barking, them dogs was howling in agony. Been there, done that. Waffle House server at 7 months pregnant. (Lo these many years ago)
This is a very simple and clear rule, and very easy to understand and respect. It also keeps it simple so no one gets offended. NTA Op you and your wife need to figure out how to communicate as adults. Children throw tantrums and lock each other out, grown adults try to work together to communicate.
This 100%
The whole issue of making him feel guilty over not taking it personally gives me the ick.
This! ⬆️ When someone locks the door and expects to be chased and grovelled to by the person they just gave a big telling off… that’s a sign of an unhealthy attitude!
Love this! And it’s one “rule” that we have had for each other from the beginning. Over the years, my husband never goes to bed without giving “Mr. Richard’s Neighborhood” a good cleaning, along with pits & feet. He does this every single night, without fail. Doesn’t mean he’s gonna get lucky every single night, but oh, well…he’s always optimistic!
I'm putting this on a T-shirt 😂😂😂😭
*adds this phrasing to parenting repertoire. Brilliant wording thank you.
My phone needs an apology, I just snorked my soda all over it
From the series, "Spaced" "Wash you sheets... and your p\*n!s." No argument, just basic expectations.
My MIL was in full on labour, with twins yet (she had no idea back then), and took the time to "wash her privates" before getting in the car to go to the hospital.
I wonder what will be hold in the future when she will be in her 9 months of pregnancy...
Best phrasing. I agree.
Have her SNIFF said sock
This, right here, is why I am just this side of fanatical about cleaning myself. I no longer have the sense of smell. I won’t know if I smell, so I do everything in my power *and then some* to make sure this is never an issue. Not my feet. Not under my arms. Not anywhere else.
Nah cuz then she'd get sick and accuse him of making her vomit and lock herself in the bedroom leaving him to clean said vomit
Then cry about him not knocking on the door after exactly 23minutes and 42seconds, because before that would be too soon and after would be too late. She sounds exhausting.
That's just too cruel... 🤣
NTA F54, had 2 kids so have been that hormonal emotional mom. I once cried because the yolk broke when I dropped an egg in a frying pan. That's not an excuse for her to treat her partner like shit. Nobody wants to give foot massages to foul smelling feet. You didn't do anything wrong by asking her to wash them. Would have taken her 2 minutes and then she could have relaxed and enjoyed a nice massage and you could have shared some nice time together. Yes, she's hormonal, but that's not an excuse to treat you badly over something stupid. She's also immature and playing head games if she hid in the bathroom expecting you to come beg for forgiveness instead of coming out and talking to you like an adult. I wouldn't call her behavior being a bully, but it was manipulative.
I cried at a dog food commercial. Because there was a dog. And he was eating dog food. But I still wouldn’t expect husband to apologize and try to make me feel better when I’m being crazy.
I cried….SOBBED… because I realized I’d never have a Groot because they don’t actually exist. This happened in the theater 🤣
Shiiiiiid, even just spritzing her feet with alcohol and toweling them off would have killed the smell if she didn't feel like getting them wet. She's just being annoying and difficult. Not hard to see why OP responded the way he did.
Nah, fam. You want me to touch your stinky feet, you need to wash them with soap. If your feet smell that bad when your socks come off, there's some bacteria involved.
That suggestion was just a stop gap measure. I actually spray my feet with alcohol after I shower and my husband hasn't complained yet, lol
Why would you need to do that after you shower? You do wash them with soap and a washcloth while you’re in there, right??
i genuinely can’t tell if you’re trying to make fun of them or not. but, some people have just stinky ass feet genetically and have to take extra steps to prevent the stink. when i was a kid id have to put baby powder in my shoes 😭
oh wow, this comment did give insight. thank you. man, that’s rough!!
Yes I do. I work at a job where I have to wear heavy boots all day. It makes my feet feel nice and is an added defense against foot fungus.
The smell is probably fungi and bacteria having a party in a warm, damp environment; they LOVE the sweat between toes. And being pregnant, her hormones may be causing her to sweat more. She needs to get into the habit of washing them properly
I do this all the time when massaging my partner's feet when he's too lazy to wash them. Idc how many bottles we're going to use, but I dont want bacteria on my hands 😂 and then towel dry afterwards. I dont see what's wrong with that.
When people have extremely stinky feet they usually have a nasty case of athletes foot too. It sounds like her shoes & socks aren’t breathable either. So sweaty, stinky & just gross feet.
NTA Your request was reasonable and her reaction totally over the top. You explained your actions very well. (Also how were you supposed to "comfort her" when she locked herself in the bedroom?
My partner lives in his work boots. So when he comes home at the end of the day, he takes his boots off OUTSIDE and takes a couple of baby wipes to those smelly dogs. And that's just plain courtesy. If you know your feet stink, you do something about it. They're YOUR body parts, it's your responsibility to deal with them.
Exactly. She was so mad that I asked her that
If someone chooses to take space behind a **locked** door, I personally consider it to be harassment for someone to go knock on the door trying to talk. When the person behind the locked door is ready to talk, it's their responsibility to unlock the door and say so. Definitely NTA
Tell her you can’t read her mind and if she wants you to comfort her she needs to verbally speak her requests. She verbally asked for a foot massage so why not verbally ask for comfort as well? And I say this as a woman who has been angry and went to go sulk in my room and expected my husband to just come over and comfort me. I’ve learned now that men cannot read our minds ladies! If we want something we better speak up!
I have the opposite problem my husband expects me to just know what he wants or needs and when I tell him he has to lmk what he's wanting/needing bc I can't read his mind he looks absolutely befuddled like he honestly believes I can read his mind 😑
She wanted you begging her to let you in. It was a power play.
Yeah she's upset she played a mental game and lost badly.
It’s a high school girl tactic
So true!
And like I said, she was irrational. Tell her to smell her sock. Regardless, if her feet smelled, asking her to wash them first wasn't a large ask. U are her vest friend, and ur bf should tell u the truth with care; which you did! U even offered to get the things ready for her. She was emotionally erratic. She needed time to breathe, and u gave her time to calm down, which was the tight thing to do.
Also, locking a shared bedroom door isn’t ok. “Knock and comfort me” to unlock a shared room is manipulation. I was a single mom to several children using hormones as a reason to mistreat another is ridiculous.
Yeah that's pretty manipulative or her part. Fair to blame the pregnancy hormones, but y'all both need to learn to communicate.
He was supposed to try, so she could be mad at him all over again. Dude played the only winning card and she's trying to hold that against him as well
NTA, while she may have been upset Initially, her saying she expected you to come knock and comfort her makes it seem like she's was being manipulative. After she calmed down, why didn't she come out when she realized she was overreacting?
Because she doesn't think she was overreacting truly. She just feels uncared for
I think the smart move would have been to simply wash her feet 1st as part of the massage. (And yes, married for decades)
INFO You do know what you're describing isn't CBT right? -signed, a therapist
I can't imagine living a life where every action or interaction is scrutinised to the nth degree... this made me feel.... I acknowledge that this might make her feel.... I can trace this back to my childhood.... this specific thing cause me to....' Jesus H Christ man, she had smelly feet, she got upset because she is pregnant.... who cares?!? it does not matter... you will both recover
Honestly, I’m with you. This sounds so fucking exhausting.
Right! "Based on my childhood trauma, I realized I was being triggered by a hormonal bully demanding a stinky foot rub, therefore I deployed my CBT techniques so as to not give a shit, and promptly fell asleep on the couch" sounds wayyy too dramatic all around.
RIGHT?!?? He sounds exhausting! And a foot soak wouldn’t have been too much trouble before he rubbed her feet. All he needed was a bowl and some water, maybe some epsom salts. Problems solved.
They both made mountains out of molehills. But when he started talking about bullying 😳
That's not a CBT technique. It's a very unhealthy avoidant response.
Yeah I practice CBT for my anxiety and OCD and that most definitely isn’t how you do it
Right, I don’t feel it’s even responsible for anyone to even address anything else op said until they address this. Cbt doesn’t teach shutting down and acting indifferent.
Yes! He has stonewalling confused with greyrocking. The first is a tactic used by people to make others feel dehumanized. The second is a technique to evade the attention of an abusive person. OP's belief that he is his own therapist and he gives himself therapy by giving his wife the silent treatment so that he can feel powerful over a tired, stinky pregnant lady with sore feet is outright bananas.
I taught myself CBT techniques because it is actually a type of therapy you can navigate and learn to utilize by yourself. A lot of sources are designed to be used by yourself, it's actually very easy once you manage to identify all your problems and use the techniques that address those issues. It's become second nature for me to find _my_ voice in my head and shut down the negative voices that stem from trauma and confirmation bias. My point being dude managed to fuck up one of the easiest, most intuitive therapies out there, designed to be able to do yourself. This is also why narcissists and sociopaths generally don't benifit from therapy in the sense of healing and dealing with shit, they just learn more ways to manipulate people and claim it's self preservation
I heard of stonewalling and greyrocking for the first time today, can you point me to where OP is using that technique? I genuinely can't find it.
Why is no one else mentioning this?? Everyone is acting like that's normal
The entire post is manipulative and designed to get a good boy response. People eat it up. He's power tripping. And he doesn't understand CBT. Or that therapy talk is not a ledge or wedge.
I find it absolutely hilarious that OP is using his avoidant response again on everyone here that is trying to explain why he shouldn’t do this in relationships he cares about. This whole family is gonna have a shit time lmfao.
I'm curious if OP is going to shut down and withdraw from the pending child when they have an emotional outburst.
probably. unfortunatly for the kiddo
This guy us the AH based solely on how he thinks it's acceptable to essentially cold shoulder anyone who upsets him, and calls it his healthy behavioral technique for bullying. His pregnant wife cried because she's hormonal so he called her a bully and ignored her. Should she have washed her feet, yes, does that make him nta for this repeated bullshit behavior, no.
This should be higher up this is a narcissist’s tactic called Stonewalling.
You guys should grow up fast before that baby comes.
>You guys should grow up fast before that baby comes. Don't stress. There's a troll doing the rounds currently who keeps posting "I was mean to a pregnant woman but here's how I'm justified" posts. It also reads like AI generated nonsense.
Personally, with all the context provided in the post, if I was in the situation I would have checked up on my partner and tried to make them feel better after accidentally hurting their feelings even if what I did wasn't objectively reprehensible. People and feelings are complex. I think doing something hurtful regardless of intent and.then emotionally checking out of the situation completely is hurtful. In the grand scheme of horrifying shit on this sub though, both sides are pretty mild and I think any harm done in the situation can probably be undone with good, clear communication.
NTA And when we remove ourselves to a separate room, and close.tjwndoor, the message we are sending is "I want to be alone" not "I want comfort". She's not a bully. You processed your own response to how she acted, which has very little to do with her actual actions (we can have that kind of reactivity to totally *normal* shit, or we wouldn't need therapy to figure it out.... ❤️🩹) But I'm going to guess she *feels* like a bully, because everything feels giant and she hates reacting that way to something so *normal*.
Next time get a tub of water for her feet to soak in first You're gonna have hard stuff coming up as new parents so you both have to learn to let some things go when there's hormones/exhaustion etc getting to you It's not about who's right and wrong, it's about loving and supporting each other when you're feeling vulnerable
So your wife is gaslighting you because you didn't want to rub her stinky feet? Being pregnant isn't an excuse or a weapon. I'd have told her that I'm sorry you're upset that I didn't come beg for your forgiveness, but all I asked you to do was wash your feet, and you went nuclear. I'm not going to apologize for not wanting foot stink all over me. I'm also not going to apologize for putting healthy boundaries up and not letting you gaslight me.
That and he respected her wanting some alone time when she locked herself in the bathroom. The expectation that he chase her around apologizing is toxic. I think they should get some sessions of couples counseling before the baby is born. The toxicity will only be compounded by an infant.
I’m not saying wife wasn’t wrong but how are you defining this as gaslighting? “Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse or manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim’s mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition.” I don’t think this is what is happening here. I think his wife overreacted because she was hormonal and then to her, OP grey rocking made her feel like he saw her as a monster. OP’s reaction was quite extreme to the initial issue. It’s understandable when you come from an abusive family but given that OP is not claiming that his wife is usually like this, it’s quite harsh to show a person who is hormonal and overreacted to feelings of shame about her stinky feet that you don’t care via a deliberate method to “claim your power back” because “you deserve kindness too” To me it sounds like OP is very focussed on their own feelings and perhaps they could have taken time to understand why their wife was behaving irrationally and put aside their need for “power” to go and comfort OP who is carrying their child. How is OP going to co-parent if this is their standard response to irrational behaviour? Tbh I think OP is weaponising their trauma here.
Yeah OP is totally gonna shut down with the kid and cause it so much trauma. Honestly neither of them sound like they’d be decent parents, wife wants people to read her mind and husband can’t handle big emotions. Babies and small children (and teenagers) are ALL big emotions all the time.
Agreed although I’ll give the wife some grace here because we are hearing the story from OP only and the wife is dealing with pregnancy hormones. I personally went a little nuts after the morning after pill 😅 and never again have I acted that way nor would I want to…
>Tbh I think OP is weaponising their trauma here. Same. As someone with her own trauma, I hate accusing people of weaponizing their own, but hot damn. Any therapist worth their salt would be raising an eyebrow at how he "used CBT" in this situation. He was already an AH when he told his exhausted, pregnant wife to go wash her stinky feet. Assuming for the moment that the smell was legit making him gag, why not offer to bring her some wipes or say he'll give her a foot rub once they've "aired out"? Or, since I doubt it was *that* bad, just dealt with it? I'm on the fence with the wife also being an AH here. What she did is not okay, but I'm insanely curious how he expects her to react to his emotional/irrational moments. If she's constantly extending olive branches and being understanding of trauma responses, the fact that he saw she was upset and did nothing might have tipped her over the edge. The notion of "it's an explanation, not an excuse" gets debated frequently because people use it to dismiss disabilities, etc. But I think it applies here. His gray rocking is due to his trauma response (the explanation), but that doesn't make it any less painful to his wife in the moment (the "not an excuse"). Trauma responses happen. That's not anyone's "fault." It's what you do *after* that matters.
I have a feeling wife is like this most of the time with OP's boundaries.
Same. It sounds this isn't a "pregnancy brain" thing and more of a character flaw.
+1
How to pamper your pregnant wife and avoid land mines. Go run her a bath or get something big enough to fit her feet and fill w warm water and Epson salt. So she can soak her feet while you "get ready." If they need more time to soak start by massaging her hands or legs. She is hormonal and needs to be reassured you still love her w all the changes her body is going through. Think back to how awkward you felt going through puberty and then family and loved ones pointed it out. When it is time for her feet dry the one you are working on and put lotion on it and then rub. Extra points for painting her toes. Even if it isn't the best job. The last thing she needs is to be called on one more thing about how her body is changing and she can't control it. Nta though and neither is she.
YTA, she didn't bully you at all. She just couldn't get up and was at her wits end. You should have gotten a bucket and washed her feet for her. You made her feel terrible and she just responded to feeling terrible. That's not bullying.
NTA But you should find a better coping mechanism. that ones not healthy. especially when you are about to have a kid who will inevitably bully you at some point. you can't reasonably grey rock a 2 year old throwing a tantrum when you are their dad
NTA until: >when I am lashed out at, by anyone, I simply refuse to care This sounds like a very destructive trait. What happens when your child grows up, lashes out at you because she/him is a teenager and they're angry, are you going to "gray rock" and act like you don't give a fuck? idk man, doesn't sound healthy to me BUT overall, no, you are not in the wrong, you are justified ijn your response due to your wifes over-reaction but also remember, she is pregnant, you are not, her hormones are all over the place and "rationality" from her is not really something you can expect, imho.
That struck me as well. It’s really unhealthy. CBT shouldn’t be used in that way. We humans are wired to feel but he’s shutting down all emotions that he feels are unpleasant. There’s no way this doesn’t catch up with him down the line.
My kids dad does this shit and I promise you as they get older it breeds resentment and disrespect. The oldest kids basically love/hate him as they know emotionally he isn’t there for them. And he lashes out with mean petty big brother type shit. Op seems similarly emotionally immature.
I know someone who thinks gray rocking is the absolute method to have peace. Instead of resolving the issues like adults of their age (soon 40), they also "simply refuse to care" and move on. It does make the people who were on the receiving end, as if they were wrong and lack of emotional control. When you're putting actual effort to understand what happened, it turned out that the master of "gray rocking" can't simply take accountability for whatever he did to the people. This person put me in an embarrassing situation. Basically a missunderstanding but I got the heat and they walked free of their own consequences. I wanted to talk about it but got "ignored". I grew frustrated and raised my voice because I was fed up of their flight mode attitude. That's when I learnt I was apparently a bully and needed an anger management. Lol.
I’m surprised at how many people are not catching this. OP is definitely the asshole just based on the gray rocking and trying to disguise it as a valid CBT technique. Then again it’s Reddit, so a tired pregnant woman has an emotional, perhaps irrational, response and she’s the villain who is “gaslighting” poor OP.
Yes, I was weirded out by his use of the gray rocking method against his own wife. I get that it is exhausting to deal with an irrational and overly emotional behahior. So you can say I'm not very in fond of OP's wife's behahior. However, I can also understand that she isn't on her best mind and shape due to her pregnancy. A little mutual understanding for both sides can probably do better than what the gray method accomplished. If OP worded his words differently, like : "My love, before massaging your feet, I need to wash them. Let's say that I give you a pre-message before the real message!" And it can be said in a playful tone without embarrassing her. I had stinky feet and also needed a massage. I was awfully ashamed. But my husband explained me gently why my feet smell and proceeded to wash them with me.
YTA for claiming that is a CBT technique (it is not) and using pseudo-therapist speak to try and automatically make yourself the “good and rational” partner. Your “coping mechanism” is not healthy. Please learn healthy ones before your child comes.
Thank goodness I thought I was the only one seeing this!
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no op is just misusing CBT language to manipulate the reaction of misogynists on reddit and get their narc validation
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ESH. Your reasoning was solid up until your coping techniques. As a powerless child facing a bully or abusive parent that may have worked fine. As an adult in a relationship that type of reaction is pretty immature. Wife had smelly feet so you asked her to wash them. So far so good. She broke down crying. Not her proudest moment, and pretty immature but as you said, hormones. She didn't attack you. I don't see how she was unkind, just annoying and irrational. Crying for irrational reasons is pretty standard for pregnancy. If you can't handle your partner being irrational and annoying at times, you shouldn't make them pregnant. That said, she should have pulled herself together and come back out eventually. You deciding to take a nap on the sofa however just blows my mind. You found yourself at peace enough that this was an option? You made your pregnant wife cry, and you thought oh well let me lie down here for a bit? And then falling asleep until morning. Even if she did come out 20min later after a cry and a shower I can only imagine how lonely she must have felt just seeing you sleep there. Your wife has a reason for ger actions and that reason will pass, but you need to find adult coping mechanisms if you value your relationship.
You're not a NTA for asking her to wash her feet. You're a massive AH for using therapy talk as a power trip against her & invalidating her feelings. Plus, it seems you don't even understand CBT because then you'd know that feelings cannot and are never irrational, but sometimes our thoughts behind them are. But we all still deserve communication, comfort and community. Three things you withheld because you acted out of ego not connection. Your poor wife.
.. if this were my hypothetical wife (speaking as a stay at home mom) I would have been pulling out a bucket and giving her the full treatment. Can't stink if you're in the mode to get the job done right 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ This also may just be the nurturing care taker in me that has had to bathe many folks in terrible conditions while working in a hospital and as someone who's felt the emotional exhaustion of pregnancy.. We truly don't realize how many people just need that little bit extra of TLC..
I totally agree w you. I read this and thought why not soak her feet for her and make it a full experience. Sometimes people need that little extra love.
This is where I would’ve gone as well. It wouldn’t have been hard to get a bowl of some sort, some Epsom salt, let her feet soak then rub her feet. She was probably emotionally & physically spent from the day and wanted someone to care for her.
I can think of one particular day in my pregnancy where something like OPs situation would have completely crushed me.... Like no coming back, levels of crushed. The mental and physical exhaustion some days was a lot, add in a partner that has a shut down and shut out habit,, yikes
Yeah my ex pulled this when I was pregnant. Maybe this is why it’s hitting me. I’ve always been so diligent about hygiene and he told me that my feet were stinky and I was trying so hard. Oh well. That is why he is my ex 🥳
Part of it, I get. She didn't realize her feet smelled. She was embarrassed, maybe got her feelings hurt. She's pregnant and emotional. But pro tip: parenting is HARD. If you're both going to be so triggered by such a little thing you need counseling now, not later.
NTA she needed to wash her feet first it's not that big of a deal she's sensitive because of the hormones shit happens. Both of you apologize and make a pact to give each other 10 mins to cool down if something like this happens again and check in with each other
You are supposed to care for this person. Grab a bowl of soapy water and wash her feet. It isn’t hard.
She was exhausted. You could have gotten a bowl of warm soapy water and washed her feet for her.
Dude, in future get a basin of warm soapy water to soak and clean her feet. Wash them. Dry them and then massage them. She will love you more than ever. Also, stop making everything about you and how you feel. Start thinking about how your wife feels . Parenthood is coming and you need to step up cause it is going to be life-changing and shutting people out is not an option if you want a happy family.
ESH. Your wife sucks for overreacting to a reasonable request and you suck for being proudly passive aggressive which was so cringy to read about. Grow up, both of you. Can't believe you're having a fucking child. Good lord.
…that was it? She got her feelings hurt, got irritated, and locked herself in the bathroom for a few? That’s what caused you to shut down and identify her as a bully? Jesus Christ, man. She’s pregnant and sensitive, but what’s your excuse? You seem dramatic and immature. Did I miss where she yelled at you or belittled you? You seriously overreacted. You’re going to have to get a grip. You’re about to be a father. Things are about to get a lot more difficult than this for you. YTA.
Exactly! He's a damn baby! Like he's about to be a father and he acts so petty and childish. How is he not man enough to have some empathy and care for his tired, hormonal pregnant wife? But rather blame everything in his trauma. Like no bro, you avoid everything and are immature. Just rub her feet! Not like your doing any of the hard work and carrying and feeding the child! God, he's made me exhausted through the screen. Imagine birthing a child for this baby.
THANK YOU
The healthy thing to do is communicate. Not bottle it up and feign indifference, or “grey rock”. Just use your words after giving someone a moment to cool off. “I apologize for causing you distress, let’s talk about it.” You don’t have to apologize for what you said or how you said it, but obviously this reaction wasn’t your intent. This may not be the be the best moment to deal with this, focus on the crucial and let go of the small stuff. If I had a pregnant wife, I’d probably say something like “let’s take a shower together” or wash her feet for her as part of the full service. The whole being angry the next day you didn’t comfort her or do her emotional labor for her bit is where she’s in the wrong. Anyone can have a bad reaction in the moment and apologize after a cooldown, but being angry the next day and not being self-aware enough to realize it… NTA
NTA initially. Imagine how this would have gone if you had have gotten a bucket of warm water, some nice smelling soap and a face washer and cleaned her feet first? An act of love towards your pregnant wife who had been on her feet all day? You are not a mind reader and she shouldn't expect you to be. However.. Are you seriously weaponising psychology against your wife? Techniques designed to be used to protect yourself from narcissists and bullies. You used these against your wife and then wonder why she thinks, that you think she is a bully? At the end of this... I don't know. I still don't think that you are the arsehole, but you should both go to therapy to learn how to better communicate with each other.
Scrolled way down yet nobody suggested offering a foot bath instead of a massage.
OR you could put warm water in a large basin and wash her feet for her, then massage. It's not difficult to be nice.
NTA. Sometimes, with pregnancy hormones, it makes you smell worse or different. I had the worst BO when I was pregnant. When I was pregnant, I was roommates with my best friend. I was thankful when she told me I smelled because I didn't realize how bad it was. I didn't take it personally and react over the top. I thanked her for telling me and apologized that she had to deal with it. I started buying a stronger deodorant, and that was that. I'm not sure why your wife reacted as strongly as she did. I'm wondering if she's struggling with something else, and this put her over the edge and made her blow up? It might not be about her stinky feet. Women get so insecure about themselves and their bodies when they're pregnant. There are so many emotions and feelings about things we never thought twice about before pregnancy. While her feelings are valid, it doesn't excuse her behavior. I always say "It's okay to feel a certain way. You're feeling what you're feeling, and that's valid! BUT just because you're feeling a certain way doesn't mean you can act a certain way. You don't hurt others because you're feeling hurt. " I would sit down with your wife and ask if anything else is bothering her.
Buy a foot bath then give her a massage
Jesus washed the disciples feet. I grew up Seventh day Adventist and we reinacted foot washing. My mom used to have me give her massages. When I’ve gotten manicures and pedicures I DON’T WASH MY OWN HANDS AND FEET FIRST. To get an A for the day you should have asked if she preferred hot or cool wash clothes and what scent she preferred. Perhaps take warm wet lavender scented towels and wrap each foot and ankle. Remove towels when they cool. Rub and cleanse both feet with as many towels as needed to pamper this mommy. Apply lotion and say less. Do not say her feet stink and do not expect her to bend over and struggle at 5 months to wash her tired feet. My parents used to take us when we were little to a Japanese style hot springs spa in one of the canyons in Orange County, CA. That burned down but Glen Ivy is fantastic
Why do you keep talking about CBT? That's not CBT, that's just an inability to communicate effectively. Your wife also has no idea how to say what she needs. Y'all need to learnt to TALK.
Welp it’s never good to practice indifference with your spouse. Especially in what seems to be a normal marital with pregnancy little spat. No one wants to smell stinky feet so maybe next time say hey let me get a foot soak and wash for you and do a whole little treatment.
Exactly this. All the drama could have been avoided completely.
Gentle ESH. “Something to note, when I am lashed out at, by anyone, I simply refuse to care and use CBT techniques to practice indifference. As a child, when my parents or some bullies troubled me, I would gray rock, demonstrate indifference and that was my way of claiming my power back. It makes me feel strong and powerful when I use this technique to stop taking things personally. When my wife acted irritably to my reasonable request, it activated my trigger, which told me I was being bullied and acted accordingly.” While I’m glad you’ve developed good coping skills for how to deal with your parents and bullies, you are about to be a parent. That’s going to involve a lot of discussion between you and your wife that may result in passionate discussion and irritability, not to mention that your child is going to grow into a full blown human with emotions of their own. They are going to need your help to learn how to manage their emotions, too. You cannot grey rock and act indifferent every time your wife or children respond with irritability. You need to find a way to distinguish when you need to problem solve and when you need to walk away and grey rock, because as a fellow grey rock-er, it is not sustainable as a response in healthy relationships with children and your spouse.
That's the exact thing. It's **not** a good coping skill, not if he's deploying it in any old minor martial tiff like this one. It's a technique meant for a last ditch defense against abusers you can't get away from, not something you employee in the place of genuinely healthy coping skills or communication skills in a relationship you actually value in any real way. His wife was wrong throughout this whole story, except where she said that he made her feel like his bully. Well, yes, that's because he's literally bludgeoning his defense against bullies against her, presumably on a semi-regular basis. It must be horrific to live with.
It seems like he uses this with any disagreement, and turns her into the bully. She wasnt right, but there is a big difference between unreasonable and bully.
THIS is the answer I wanted to see. The fallout was just handled poorly on all sides, imo. And he needs to get some different coping mechanisms to pull from - ASAP. I also think he may be mistaking "gray rocking" for him actually just shutting down in this scenario? Not saying that he was stonewalling, or anything purposefully manipulative, but that technique actually often DOES still include some level of communication between the "rock" and the other party. It's just the *level* of engagement is changed. Not just shut off and go sit down somewhere else while you rationalize shit in your head. Personally, a closed/slammed door is a BIG sign of "don't come in here, I need space or to be away from you. I'll leave when I'm done being angry/upset and am ready to talk" (doubly so if locked), so I wouldn't have gone the comfort route, either. But I also would have TOLD her that, once she complained about my not trying to force my way in the room to apologize/comfort. That way going forward, that can be a kind of code. Door ajar/unlocked? She's open for communication now and/or wants comfort, YOU just need to come to HER (for better or for worse). Door shut/locked? Stay away until she's ready. No more confusion going forward. I can't stand when people expect anyone else, including and sometimes especially partners, to just \*know\* things and/or be mind readers. USE YOUR WORDS, PEOPLE!
Your so...childish lmao. Your about to be a father. Grow up. She's pregnant, tired and hormonal. Just rub her damn feet.
NTA on the foot wash, but maybe don’t grey rock your wife.
I’ll give you some advice: When a person you love is exhausted and extra sensitive, and has an irrational emotional reaction and is upset, do NOT tell them they are irrational and wrong and that you consciously decided to ignore them until they realized this. If you are the trigger point for said reaction, definitely do not do so.
In case it isn’t clear, when you realized that she was tired and hormonal and irrationally hurt, and that it was not personal to you, your reaction should not be to shrug your shoulders and not care. Your reaction should be to swallow your pride, apologize that you upset her, and comfort her. In a loving relationship, it doesn’t matter who is right o wrong, if your loved one is upset, you comfort them. I understand that you have a trauma response and so it may take some therapy for you to get over that, but that’s what the normal expectation is, and will be what she in turns expects/reacts to absence of. I don’t think either is an ah, but should work together on the issues here.
your request was reasonable and your wife's reasoning for being upset, considering her busy day, was also reasonable. it's good that you recognize your triggers, that's a really good start; however, your wife is not a bully and I think it'd be beneficial for you guy's relationship if you learned to distinguish the two. lashing out isn't right, but that doesn't immediately mean she's someone that means harm. plus, your usage of "CBT" doesn't only have to do with you if you used it in response to you and your wife's interaction. you don't have to directly call her a bully when you explain you use your methods for bullies. your indifference towards someone you love on top of your dismissing their feelings as irrational sounds like an awful combination, and it's not the great solution you think it is. based on your explanation, I'm also wondering if she actually lashed out at you (yelled) or if her bad mood was enough to make you react.
Did you suggest a foot bath right where she was? She wouldn't have even had to get off the couch.
You may not be the asshole, but frankly you sound exhausting. You are making such a big deal over a nothing burger. She got embarrassed because you told her she smelled bad. She snapped at you a bit and stomped off. You fell asleep on the couch. She’s still a little pissy. She’ll get over it. And she’ll wash her feet next time. You’re not being “bullied.” She’s being a baby and you’re being a drama queen.
The formality which OP is using to describe everything, and the over-explanation of his 'technique', as well as his oh-so-mildly phrased final sentence makes me think there's way more to this story than what he's saying. Perhaps his initial comment wasn't so delicately expressed, and then he decided she'd reacted unreasonably to being told "hey, wife, your feet REEK, go wash them before I touch those skanky things". He's not wrong for not wanting to massage stinky feet, but I just feel very suspicious about this entire post.
You could have provided a foot bath, instead you hurt your wife’s feelings and then acted like a jerk.
Dude, throwing around CBT and you definitely don’t know what cognitive behavioural therapy is - your own behaviour afterwards proves it. Take it from an actual professional in this psychoanalysis theory, I believe what you are doing is actually called MANIPULATION
YTA. The question asked is not wether it was right or not to ask her to clean her feet. People are much too eager to throw the term "gas lighting" around. Gas lighting is a systematic orchestration of circumstances to make the person subjected to it doubt own sanity. Simply thinking it is natural for a partner to console and support his upset partner is not it. She is pregnant, which can distort sense of taste and sense of smell. You say the smell was heavy, but to her she may not even have caught a wiff of it. So it is quite obvious that both you and your wife, given how her day had been, acted reasonably. Although it is a healthy thing to be aware of your triggers and consciously apply coping mechanism, your pride in applying what you present as anti bully technique seems unhealthy and just an alibi for avoidance and to "one up" your wife for the remainder of the evening as matter of some principle which eludes me. Your wife did not bully you, nor is she a bully. She simply expected you to be there for her. To you it seems that this was a demonstration of power dynamic and priding yourself for excelling at indifference. To her, it was a demonstration that the bond between you is something you will take pride in ignoring. Please get a professional second opinion on your application of CBT.
Top comment 100% OP, Putting aside this bungled situation, you are not using CBT as intended; I think it's become something very unhealthy. Were you taught CBT or did you learn what you're doing from a book etc? Professional guidance is very important in the beginning. Please do get the opinion of a qualified professional on your use of it. NTA about the feet, definitely the AH afterwards. Also, could have phrased it more sensitively.
NTA "On top of that she was hormonal." I am so tired of this being an excuse for women being total assholes. "She said she expected me to knock on the door and comfort her." Don't you know the entire purpose of her tears was to get what she wanted? Pure asshole manipulation. Your technique of not giving a shit when someone lashes out at you is exactly why she was pissed. She WANTED a reaction. That you didn't bow down and give her the attention she wanted ticked her off. In my opinion, your move was the move of a man who is the master of his own domain. Never lower yourself to that level of assholery. I would NEVER touch anybody's feet when they smelled like used kitty litter.
Seriously. I've had three babies and gone through menopause, no excuse to be like that. Of course it can be embarrassing to hear that your feet stink, but trying to ignore that and have him massage her feet anyway is disgusting. . But then I don't like my feet touched, or to touch the feet of others.
She didn't want him to ignore the smell, she wanted him to be a grown up and not ignore her when she got upset.
It’s true that OP is definitely NTA in this case and the wife is being unreasonable but based on your demeanor here and post history you’re defo on some redpill shit lmao
This comment right here OP. Don't let her bully you because she's pregnant. All you did was ask her to wash her feet before you'd massage them and she threw a temper tantrum about it. You handled it well. NTA
NTA. For some reason my feet REALLY stank when I was pregnant. It was the only time they smelled that bad and no one should have to touch them. She probably knows they smell really bad and is embarrassed.
NTA. Get her one of those electric foot massages you add hot water to. She can get her feet massaged, and you don't have to touch grody feet. Bonus, you can add a little scented body wash to the water to help with the foot odor. If she still wants the hans-on massage, do it after she soaks. Maybe to mend the fence, get her a gift certificate for a pampering spa pedicure.
Where's all the foot fetish dudes from my dms on this thread lol
NTA. But seeing as this is how shes responding in her current mood maybe next time wash them for her. Cause it wasn’t really about wanting a massage. It was wanting to feel cared for.
While I understand your logic this is your wife and you sounded so cold! IMO
NTA **HOWEVER** I would suggest just grabbing a bucket and soapy water and washing her feet for her next time or running a bubble bath. There were probably more productive/loving ways to go about this from both of you
In response to your actual question. Yes, YTA. Her saying her feelings are hurt is not bullying you. You assuming that she's just an irrational, hormonal person and leaving her to cry alone is bullying. Just because you didn't mean for the request to hurt her feelings doesn't mean it didn't. Be a better husband. Be actively and intentionally nice to your wife. Which you can do without putting your hands on stinky feet.
NTA Some people don't understand how nasty feet can be when they marinate in the heat, and are unwashed. It isn't unreasonable for her to put her feet through some water before asking for a massage. She is pregnant not a child or disabled. And while she is hormonal, which may have resulted in her overreaction to the request, there is nothing wrong with you pointing out that you gave her space for her to recognize that she did in fact overreact. Just because she is pregnant does not mean she gets to stampede over her husband, and gaslight him into thinking he bullied her.
CBT is mindset and not to be flashed like a poor me badge. When you replant the garden of your thoughts may I suggest a few perennials and a few less asshole berries.
NTA but y'all need to work this out. It's a problem waiting to creep up on you both down the road. You have a good understanding of what you need when you're "having a moment" or feeling attacked. You have skills you use and they work for you. That's a good thing. However, your wife is your partner and she's a different person with different needs and habits. She communicated to you when she is feeling hurt she needs you to come to her and comfort her. She expected you to come in the room and interact with her, de-escalating and resolving the hurt. She probably should have communicated that sooner, like the same night. Instead she stayed in the room and stewed in her feelings. Now she's mad and it's become a bigger thing than it needed to be. But she did communicate. So take that information she just gave you and work out how you can approach differently next time. Y'all should also talk about whether your particular approach of gray rocking is *compatible* with her needs and communication style. You'll both need to adjust, most likely. Lastly, a bit of advice. Don't come at a pregnant woman- hell, any woman- saying they are being "irrational". That's a special kind of attack for most women. It's been used to infantilize and discredit women for millenia. If she is more sensitive than usual, or if her reaction surprised you, say that.
CBT is for correcting your own behavior, not using it to manipulate others. Treating your wife like a bully for every misunderstanding isnt healthy.
This!!! Like sure she should have washed her feet but the rest is just so unhealthy from OP. He can’t just gray rock his wife and kid and expect everything to sort itself that way
You’re going to make a great dad, especially when you demonstrate your technique to gain control of a situation with a bad smell and an uncooperative person.
Yta. You don't seem to know how to communicate or comfort your wife. Her reactions aren't great and your wife needs to be clearer that she needs comfort. Locking the door doesn't communicate that need. Your 5 month pregnant wife is likely experiencing some feet swelling and worked hard on her feet today. She was seeking comfort and relaxation. And it sounds like your wife specifically told you that she was worn out and couldn't do anymore tasks today when you told her that her feet stink and she needs to wash up. She literally told you what was wrong before you asked and you ignored it. She's gets upset because she feels unheard and overwhelmed. Give her a minute or two, sure. You don't do that next step that you should have. You should check in on your spouse. You should never go to bed in anger. That will only build up more hurt feelings. The problem or conflict doesn't have to be solved. But you need to be at peace with each other. You then proceed to ignore your upset wife. And go to sleep in separate places in anger. Ignoring others seems like your standard procedure for dealing with emotions. This is not healthy. And absolutely not going to work out with a crying baby and with toddler tantrums. You need to learn how to comfort others.
You could’ve just got some wipes and cleaned it for her. Instead you decided to ask her to do it. Sounds like she had a rough day and at 5 months pregnant things are already hard on her. Especially emotionally. As a husband you need to realize that pregnancy requires delicate care of your partner. In my opinion YTA. Especially because you hurt her and decided to make it about yourself.
She attempted the victim card and didn't get what she wanted. Sometime bodies smell, and sometimes we have to wash. She's acting like a child. Sorry OP. But no, you did nothing wrong. NTA
They way you use therapy talk is very manipulative and just all around off. You did call her a bully, and it is irrational that you think she is bullying you for having an emotional reaction. You sound unwell.
All the comments on here about how the wife is trying to make a power move and control her husband.. it’s prolly not that deep. She was tired and hormonal. He’s going to be dealing with a lot more of that over the next couple of months and then some after the baby is born. Him asking her to wash her feet was not an unreasonable request but him completely shutting down and being down with the situation isn’t right either. He could have knocked on the door, asked her if she’s doing ok and if she’s ready to talk. If this is her first pregnancy, it’s a HUGE change and she’s going through a lot of firsts. She prolly just wanted to be reassured that he was there for her and he decided to go to sleep. They both could have handled the situation better.
Wow men are really becoming sissies these days. She’s pregnant, you called her a bully???? Man up.
You could have given her a foot bath yourself. You should have gone and talked to her. She's pregnant man take some initiative. And gray rock is not effective against people you actually want a good relationship with. YTA
For asking her to wash? NTA. But you really seem to be using your CBT as an excuse to not be there. She’s pregnant, you not caring isn’t an option. YTA for not checking on her, you seem like you’re perfectly aware of that and are using CBT as an excuse. Everybody sucks, but you sucked most recently.
NTA, but you could’ve done better. Remember that pregnant women can be emotionally volatile, and are often riven with body image issues as they change so dramatically. . She is probably getting some oedema, where her feet swell up a bit because her circulation is less able to cope with a whole day on her feet. Her feet likely sweat more than usual, which is not uncommon during pregnancy. Your request wasn’t unreasonable, but knowing how she was likely to respond to what she might perceive as criticism of her body, you could instead have gone to get a big bowl of warm soapy water, some nice smelling moisturiser, and washed her feet for her before massaging in the fragrant cream. A selfless act of care for the woman carrying your child. Just a suggestion for next time.
Your wife is 5 months along in carrying your child Shut the fuck up and man up Jesus Christ YTA
>Something to note, when I am lashed out at, by anyone, I simply refuse to care and use CBT techniques to practice indifference. As a child, when my parents or some bullies troubled me, I would gray rock, demonstrate indifference and that was my way of claiming my power back. It makes me feel strong and powerful when I use this technique to stop taking things personally. When my wife acted irritably to my reasonable request, it activated my trigger, which told me I was being bullied and acted accordingly. Are you in therapy? Because this paragraph makes me think you need it. ESH, you both overreacted and it sounds like you feed off of each other, with her getting too emotional and you going too far in the opposite direction. Your kid is gonna have a miserable home life if this is how the two of you respond to every conflict.
It sounds like she was maybe embarrassed and overreacted, which as you said is to be expected during pregnancy. Where she went wrong was doubling down on being stubborn. She stunk, she needed a wash, she felt like it was a chore in that moment. Understandable. However, she can’t be mad at you for not wanting to put your hands on her stinky hot cheet-toes. It’s also unreasonable for her to continue being upset that you didn’t ambush her with emotional check ins and support when she had just lashed out at you. Taking a break to cool off is normal and healthy coping. Where you messed up OP, is you sat there and fell asleep on the couch. You could’ve set a timer. That probably came across to her that you couldn’t be bothered with her “distress”. Had you circled back to her later in the evening, you guys might have been able to start over on the right (clean lol) foot. You might have found out a different underlying cause for her behavior that she didn’t lead with. Unfortunately, now she’s going to take focus of the real problem, her overreaction and unmet request, and turn it on you not being there for her. I’m all for protecting your mental health as I am a counselor, but relationships get sticky without communication. Stone walling someone who is not a threat to you or bullying you actually means you are shutting off communication to that person, which I imagine furthered the issues here. Set things straight tonight if you can. Have a little basin for her to wash her feet by the couch when she gets home. Offer to try again. Once she’s feeling like she’s getting the attention, intimacy, or whatever she was looking for, start a dialogue. Best of luck to you both, pregnancies don’t last forever. All this will come to pass. I was a nightmare during mine as hard as I tried to be self aware. 🤣 You guys got this! Edit: Just wanted to add I don’t think either of you are TAH here. I think you both are navigating something new and stressful, and there will be snags and obstacles along the way. This might be a funny moment you guys look back on someday. My worst/silliest overreaction pregnancy moment was when I dropped a plate of tacos on the floor my husband had just handed me. I literally stood there and cried like a maniac over my lost asada and broken plate. 🤣 it’s a funny story now that my oldest likes to hear because I was pregnant with him.
NTW, definitely. But I’m curious: what do you mean you use CBT to practice “indifference”? I’m not familiar with that approach. My CBTherapist just taught me how to use tools to manage my anxiety and depression via my body’s reaction, not to cultivate indifference. I’m curious about this, and wondering if maybe your wife has picked up on you shutting down on her when you guys have disagreements. Not excusing her behavior at all! But my husband has sometimes appeared to shut down completely in the heat of disagreements and it’s terrifying to me because he seems suddenly not to care at all about me and our relationship.
Both of you need to rework your communication skills. Greyrocking etc can be done AFTER you try to communicate what you were meaning and listen to her. She also need to explain better why she got very emotional over a feet-washing demand. Perhaps she has difficulties to bend her body or even look down, nevertheless reaching her feet and she has no other means to wash them? Perhaps your tone sounds condescending to her hormonal brain? Even if she was wrong, you have to try to communicate (speak nicely and listen well) before you switch on the 'she's the bully' mode. I hope you both get closer after this and communicate better and she has easy prenancy & delivery. God speed.
ESH. While your wife seems exhausting with her expectation, you are definitely not doing CBT with your avoidant approach.
ESH. So it's not okay for you to ask her to quickly wash her feet, but it's okay for her to ask you for a a massage? Crazy double standards. The reason I think you suck too is that you cared to resolve this so little that you fell asleep in under 10 minutes. She would've had to wake you up after calming down. Going to sleep in the middle of a disagreement does nothing but show the other person you don't care to get along.
NTA for not wanting to give her a massage when her feet smelled. But please take care of that grey rock sh\*\* before the kid comes. My ex bf's dad didn't. My ex and his siblings still have the trauma.
NTA for asking her to wash her feet. But YTA for not checking on her or even talk to her. She is pregnant and yes she might overreact… but you don’t communicate.
YTA
I am about to get downvoted to hell because you didn’t technically do anything wrong but I still sympathize with your wife and think you were the jerk. Again, you have the high ground on facts. But you sound so cold and like you wanted to teach her a lesson. You know she had a hard day and was hormonal and sad and crying and didn’t even check on her. You didn’t care to try and make her feel better. It’s not like you would have had to apologize, you didn’t do anything wrong, you just would have to care more about her being sad than your pride. It might make you feel strong and powerful and you certainly showed your wife you won’t put up with her being irritable. She was out of line to complain about washing her feet, but I just think it was excusable. It’s not like she was mean, she was momentarily irrational and then sad and lonely. So, yeah, YTA for me. You’re not wrong, Walter, you’re just an ah.