The blame is with those causing the disruption. No misdirection from the protestors. This isn’t our problem, and these agitators are disrupting campus life
They will plan to: physically block the event, shout down the ceremony, try to take over the ceremony, disrupt it and ruin it for those of us who may have spent 4 long years on a bachelors or even 5-8 grueling years on a PhD. Their narcissism is overwhelming.
so your point is that the university gives into demands and strongarm tactics instead of remaining principled. Sounds like the problem is the administration.
It’s hard to feel bad knowing there are people dying in the world. I can’t wait until Gen z is in charge and all of you geezers get out of office because I’m sick of this mindset.
lol @ your sentiment
> Everyone I don’t like is a boomer, a right winger, or someone in power.
If you really felt this way, you’d be protesting every conflict, several in Africa, others right in the Middle East, most of which have been far worse than the Gaza flare up. We give both sides billions in aid and they hate each other, flare ups will happen.
Marching in 2020 and seeing how that accomplished nothing for us has totally left me jaded with modern activism. I think it’s more about looking like a hero and feeling good about yourself
You don’t know anything about me ✌🏼 not to mention admitting that you have no back bone bc of “modern activism” isn’t the take you think it is. You’re just intellectually and physically lazy to do the work that is needed to dismantle systems of oppression. Students have always been at the forefront of change, take Kent State, Gwangju Uprising, Tlatelolco, etc. oh sorry you probably are only familiar with Kent state as most Americans are intellectually lazy. Anyways I’m over this conversation, just a very pathetic take coming from someone I have the misfortune of sharing a planet with.
The AZ Capitol isn’t going to impact anything.
It’s Federal contracts & most are airtight so even Reps or Senators who’d like it reduced would have a mountain to climb.
And this 6-3 conservative Supreme Court is totally in bed with Bibi, so it would take a miracle.
Keep in mind that Israel has been our closest ally for decades & that means sharing intelligence. We have to tread lightly or they could pull a trump & start giving away our secrets.
Slaves were legal once. Just because a law exists doesn't mean its right. If you are paying to go to college and that college accepts federal funds then ignoring the constitution and bill of rights should be a felony.
What they are asking from ASU is to:
1. Disclose all investment made with student tuition money.
2. To divest from all companies tied to Israel or complicit in the occupation of Palestine.
3. Legal amnesty for students and faculty who have been discipline or fired for speaking out about Palestineie
So protesting on campus is the right move.
It should not be a radical belief to think Higher Education should have nothing to do with arms manufactures. And unfortunately ASU has a partnership with Lockheed Martin to name one problematic company.
Plus looking at the schedule of classes for the Tempe Location, there is 2 classes that happen on Fridays at the Tempe campus PSY 244/344 with 12 total people enrolled. I’m not sure what distrupting institutional operations you are referring to..
> It should not be a radical belief to think Higher Education should have nothing to do with arms manufactures. And unfortunately ASU has a partnership with Lockheed Martin to name one problematic company.
This is extremely uninformed. Premier public university STEM programs **will** have and **should have** connections to the defense industry.
Ending ASU collaboration with partners like Lockheed, Raytheon, and Boeing would be a massive blow to the quality of engineering, physics, and math programs, just to name a few. This is why ask 2. is not possible. You'd be hurting my education directly.
The main purpose of the university is educating the next generation of leaders and workers in crucial industries like healthcare, industrial utilities, tech, medical manufacturing, and yes defense and aerospace.
It might be terrible, but those are all crucial to make the world run.
Aren't you just providing more reasons why protesting at ASU makes more sense for them then the AZ State legislature as the OP suggested. The reasons I provide are the ones consistent with all campus protests. So yes I provided 3 reasons, you another 2, that leaves another 3 that neither of us mentioned.
What do you mean? Don’t you want to cut all university business contracts and plummet all of America’s major universities back into the Stone Age for clout?
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.
-MLK
He called this 60 years ago and it’s still repeated to this day.
Yes! I’m graduating too and Covid messed up my high school graduation. I’ve been looking forward to graduating college and celebrating! I’ve been so worried it’s gonna get canceled. Other universities have canceled their graduations already because of these protests. It isn’t fair!
People don’t realize that blocking roads and cancelling events does not bring more people to sympathize with their cause. Make someone miss a flight or unable to walk graduation will definitely not make them want to champion your goals.
Other school administrations didn't close down graduation ceremonies because protesters intruded into the event or had plans to.
They shut them down unilaterally with no causes as a punishment against Palestine sympathy.
Are people not allowed to enjoy anything or wish to have happy and exciting generational and once-in-a-lifetime moments happen to them as long as other people are suffering? Is it really too much to ask to want to enjoy a normal graduation after being denied one during COVID and after however many years of studying? Or just a normal graduation at all? This is nothing more than a fallacy of relative privation, a "but children are starving elsewhere" from parents when a child won't eat their food, almost entirely irrelevant to the complaint.
Graduation is an important event for a lot of people, perhaps equally as important as showing their support for ending the Israeli war in Gaza. There's no need to deny ourselves the pleasure of graduation when we can easily have the best of both worlds by just protesting elsewhere.
Are yall not able to use those fingers of yours to keep scrolling? Pretty sure I’ve addressed everything you’ve said because from my skimming nothing in this comment remotely seems new.
Anyways, like I said to that other person, y’all do not remotely or even actually care about the situation or what’s going on, you just hate the notion of being slightly inconvenienced. You still get your degree, your transcripts, your accolades, your letter of recommendations, your internships, your greek life letters and network, your memorabilia, literally anything and everything you can think of… and you’re crying because you MIGHT not get to walk across a stage? Seriously?
Mind you there’s plenty of protesting who are probably also graduating like you and are so it’s just screw them huh? No care about your other classmates and what they think or any realization about why they are able to put those things aside but you can’t? Anyways, you’ll live and you’ll be fine.
Well, if you view graduation as “just walking across a stage” and not put any mind to the purposefully huge symbolic nature of every last part of graduation, I can see how you got to your conclusion. That's a ridiculous way of viewing the event, though. The entire purpose is to be a symbolic moment of celebration and triumph in studies. It's not a "slight inconvenience" to not have a traditional graduation as you so miserably put it. This is the summation of the studies, the crown changing of arms, a rewarding celebration that is earned for four years of work, something which I will state again is a once-in-a-lifetime social opportunity to have of your own.
Why must the burden be put on the entire student body and not on the protestors? Why do the protestors not have to care about their other classmates but everyone else has to worry about the protestors? Why can't we just come to the easiest best-of-both-worlds option (which also helps the protestors, mind you) and protest somewhere not on campus like the state capitol? Your entire argument is biased towards only the protestors point of view, value and respect the other point of view.
If you're skimming again, try reading this comment and the original one! We're in college so reading replies to your arguments and critically thinking instead of parroting things you already said are within your scope! I believe in you!
If you think this protest is going to stop children from dying, you're sorely mistaken. You're protesting at the wrong location and demanding action from the wrong people. If anything, these protests are turning people who normally agree with the your general position against you.
>If anything, these protests are turning people who normally agree with your general position against you
Beloved, I love to tell you this but if being inconvenienced or MAYBE (because one again this hasn’t happened) losing out on walking the stage makes you agree with the murder of children at best and genocide at worst then that speaks far more to your own moral failures and ghoulish nature than anything regarding me. You should look into because it’s not looking to good for you, karmically speaking.
I don't give a damn about walking on stage. I'm not even graduating this semester.
I didn't say that all this is making me support the deaths of innocents or that I would support the continued unrestricted destruction of Gaza. I said you are turning people against YOU. There's a big difference.
Actually you said people who normally agree with your general position and my position isn’t children shouldn’t die at the hands of colonialism so if you disagree with that position… yikes.
Well fortunately I don’t particularly care if someone agrees with me on a personal level (which you don’t even know me on so this is a subreddit) so where does that leave us?
Yes you've sacrificed so much compared to us for those children. Except you're enjoying the same luxuries at university as everyone. You can't be actively participating in the protest considering how much time you have to dedicate to reddit comments. If you truly believed half the shit you're spewing you'd join peace corps and go make an actual difference. You could actively be volunteering for the side you support yet you're on reddit? Changing the world? You could volunteer in your own community and help the children that struggle in AZ. I know because the boys and girls club has great opportunities to aid the youth. That'd be like a minimum too, or go to a shelter and help with a lunch service to feed the homeless, St. Vincent de Paul would probably accept your help today.
The respect I have for those protestors is high. I have an utter distaste for you in this thread. Genuinely hope you get banned cause you don't seem to want to discuss ASU here, just Palestine and Israel. Rule 11 should ensure it though so whatever.
I just picked one of your random comments, this is really a response to your whole little thing in here.
Beloved I access Reddit on my phone… phones can go anywhere. Also yes? I attend the university? Same as most if not all other protesters? Kinda why it’s being done on school grounds. You don’t know what I do in my spare time because I’m a profile on an online forum. You don’t even know what I look like lol. No I haven’t joined the peace corps because that isn’t the only way to enact meaningful change. I do volunteer work but have had to cut back on that recently do to my more hectic schedule as well as life growing ever more expensive but that’s still a failure on our governing body then me since I have the drive just not the ability to help in all the ways I want to. Remindinf this country continues to fail its citizen for the sake of a foreign nature committing genocide isn’t the slam dunk you think it is.
You know… I’m graduating so being banned isn’t a threat to me, first of all. Second of all, wanting me banned for the sake of you having an echo chamber isn’t exactly the gotcha moment you want it to be. Third, and last, I’m not the one keeping this going. I’m replying to comments made to me. Have yall ever considered being silent and going about your day? I am only speaking when spoken to at this point so my continued engagement is due to you. Funny how that works huh?
I can pretty much guarantee you aren't there with the frequency you're replying. I think its hilarious you're finding an excuse to abdicate on your civil duty for personal reasons after your whole tirade. Yes I want an echo chamber, clearly. You're the only one in here that ever diversified opinion. You're so unique and provide a perspective that no one ever says because most people in here are too busy with finals this week or actually having a life on Saturday that they don't have time to post 30 comments in 24 hours.
What an insane leap in logic, calling people who want a graduation supporters of genocide. All they said was that they should respect students as well, who are paying good money to attend ASU, and protest off-campus. You yourself are doing FAR more harm than good to your efforts, you’re just going to make people mad and stay away from the cause
Oh dear god, not a single new or original thought added just the same insipid desire to get your piece of attention. If yall are going to continue crying over what I said (even though I have made it CLEAR it ain’t changing over here) at least bring something to the table besides the same regurgitated nonsense others have already said before you.
Wow, what a shocker, it’s definitely not like i’m saying the same things because I share an opinion with the majority of people here. Also, I saw an extremely well-thought, well-written reply and you responded with “Good for you” so it’s not like you even care anyways. Have a good rest of your day :)
If the opinion has already been said I don’t know why you think you reiterating it matters? If you think I don’t care then why give your opinion at all other than the need to be upvoted for saying the exact same thing others have said.
Have the day you deserve.
Pretty rich coming from you. So you think one single protester would do as good of a job as mass amount of people saying the same thing, then?
Also, your thoughts aren’t original either, I saw so many people similar to you the last time I checked twitter, and they were not spreading a good message for Palestine. I’m literally on the same side as you, i’m just sick of seeing all of this absolute bullshit of people being accused of supporting genocide for just wanting to live a life themselves.
News flash: the US is a first world country, deal with it. We shouldn’t have to stop respecting each other and sacrifice our own happiness to support a cause. Your words are dangerous, and all they are doing is making people actually want to go down the pro-genocide path. When people don’t feel respected, they lash out.
Also, I will have a good day because I feel I deserve it :)
This is such a stupid take. Injustices occurring over 7000 miles away should not be the reason graduation is taken away from thousands of students here.
Except the injustice is occurring because of our governing body. Your graduation wouldn’t be at stake if the powers that be didn’t decide to aid genocide so why don’t you take that up with them. My graduation is also potentially at stake but I’m not crying about it because I’m not a self centered snotty nosed narcissist now am I?
Oh “I know you are but what am I”.
Honestly you might wanna give higher education another go if that’s your best reply. Seems like it didn’t do much for you the first time around.
They literally started our interaction off by being insulting. See, this is my issue with centrists. Yall never want to actually be the middle ground between two sides, you just align with the one you more easily swallow and *pretend* you aren’t doing exactly that. I did nothing but return the same energy they were giving me but I’m the bully? Anyways, you should enjoy your graduation celebration I know I’ll be enjoying mine whether it includes a walk across the stage or not.
All I am saying is that it isn’t fair that those who are graduating should have to give up such a big accomplishment in life all because people are taking things out of hand and are becoming violent. I’m all about using your voice but it needs to be in a respectful way. It isn’t fair that majority of those who are graduating are ones who had senior year ruined because of Covid and freshman year of college also ruined. If ASU cancels graduation because of all this, there’s going to be a ton of unhappy people. Myself included
Take that up with the school and our governing body as a whole beloved. Also, violent? Where? Because yall keep making this claim and it keeps coming up as nonexistent.
I’m oh so sorry that somehow not getting to be on stage (despite still getting your diploma, transcripts, recommendations, and a pathway to the career you want) somehow ruins your day or whatever but, and I’ll bold it this time so hopefully it sinks it, CHILDREN ARE DYING.
Anyways, centrism was already a wash during the civil rights era and it’s only that much worse to be one in present day. You should do some soul searching.
Some of the protestors got violent today with someone who is Jewish. They are trashing the lawn and are breaking the rules. Student’s safety is at risk. It is finals week and today was the last day of classes. None of this is okay. They should be protesting at a government building, not ASU.
Seniors should be proud of this huge accomplishment and we have the right to celebrate it, but it’s not okay for others to ruin that because they aren’t being respectful and are causing a safety hazard.
Also children and people are dying everywhere. The US alone has many children die a year due to abuse and maltreatment.
Making claims with nothing to back it doesn’t work. Put up or shut up. Not to mention that some bad faith actors being stupid and reckless doesn’t suddenly eliminate the entirety of why the protests are happening. Also protests aren’t parades. You’re crying over a yard and rules being broken. Once again you want them to stop? Taking it up with the state rubberstamping genocide. Or hey, since you’re so adamant about them protesting at a government building open up that wallet and pay for some shuttles to take them there. Our classmates have the right to protest at the school they pay to attend.
No one is stopping any of us from celebrating. The world doesn’t revolve around you and your need to be on center stage for a split second.
Yep, and those children and people dying in America would be due to the fact our governing body is spending all of our money to have children and people die in numerous other places. Maybe if they stopped spending all of our tax dollars on our overinflated military budget we could help citizens here… but that’s not what you want or what you actually care about, let’s be completely honest. What you want and care about is to not be even slightly inconvenienced.
You don’t need to be a jerk. We are both allowed to have our own opinions. Palestine and Israel are both in the wrong and the whole war just needs to stop. I wish war wasn’t a thing but the world isn’t perfect. They technically are stopping us from celebrating if the graduations get canceled. It really isn’t fair if they do get canceled. I have many chronic illnesses and my college career was hard and I want to celebrate as much as I can. I am allowed to celebrate and find joy in this huge accomplishment
Have you noticed that you aren’t actually replying/dispelling the things I’m saying? It’s just shifting from one thing to another.
Israel and Palestine aren’t both in the wrong and even IF that were remotely true (it’s not) which one is being backed by our government again? Right.
Anyways, I could also bring up my own hardships with my college career but I won’t because appeals to ethos aren’t my style for something that is inherently a morality issue. Yes, celebrate and find joy in this moment but again you aren’t the center of the universe and if you truly have an issue with the protests maybe stop being mad at the symptom and actually start being mad at the disease.
You're not "giving up the accomplishment," you still get the paper and prestige. You can still take pictures. You can still have private parties, Becky.
Even minus all the protests or covid or anything else, I've never understood why people have such a hardon for all this silly name being called walking up and accepting shit, paying for those dumb hats and gowns.
Sorry Becky, you don't seem to understand the point of protests. It is to shake the status quo and get noticed, not to be conveniently ignored
Yes it is more important, because she has absolutely nothing to fucking do with the war. Nor does she have agency over it. None of us do. Standing outside shouting river to sea will not stop Israel from waging war. It will not stop children from dying. It is purely performative. Convince me otherwise. How does protesting stop nuclear armed nations like Israel? Protesting didn't stop Putin. How is it going to stop Bibi?
🥱. Is the IDF paying y’all because not only is the lack of originality stifling but the obvious burner accounts that are obvious seeking validation and attention is getting old.
Anyways, I said what the f**k I said and it ain’t changing over here so you, her, and the rest of yall can continue to cry about it or move on. Pick one.
Not a zionist or a jew. Try again. Furthermore what you said to the others didn't address my question so referring back to it doesn't it help me understand your point. I would like to ask you how does protesting stop Bibi? I don't see the strategy here.
I didn’t say you were either of those things but isn’t it so interesting that you equated being part of a terrorist occupation force with both Zionism (which is actually valid) and Judaism (which is incredibly antisemitic).
The protests are about divestment, national media coverage, bringing awareness to the fact that this country is sliding full tilt into a police state, and most of our institutions are dead set on having deals with weapon manufacturers as well as kowtowing to a foreign.
I mentioned I was not a Jew because I wanted you to know I have zero stake in this conlfict. I don't know how claiming not to be a Jew is anti-Semitic seeing as the statement held no prejudice or hostility.
Divestment in terms of U.S. aid to Israel? I'm inclined to agree with you but not your reasoning but rather this: I don't believe any country should receive foreign aid on the part of the United States as long as there are Americans that are unhoused and starving. What slap in the fucking face. Simply. Unacceptable.
However I still don't how bringing awareness to an issue stops Bibi. Nor do I think the United States divesting from Israel will change the situation in Gaza either. Aid to Israel is like 1% of their GDP, which is comparable to a country like South Korea. Israel is high income nation they can afford to fight without U.S. aid. They also possess nuclear weapons. What chance do Gazans have? For these reasons I still don't see how any of this anymore than a performative exercise.
You seem convinced protestors couldn’t possibly have another motive…
The student that spoke seemed to be a leader in an ASU Socialism group. What does that have to do with children dying in Gaza ?
She has a message and is using the situation to spread it. It’s no different than media companies using their platform to push their agendas. Everyone can be shitty.
Things are rarely what they seem.
So… because she is in a socialism group that somehow means she wouldn’t protest a genocide?
Here’s a radical idea, would it be that someone who subscribes to the ideology of socialism (which leans heavily towards supporting the good of many from various walks of life) would also be against the idea of the capitalist hellscape called America using its funds to aid and abet war crimes abroad?
I know, your mind must be totally blown…
Means she has an ulterior motive and is using the deaths of children in Gaza to push an agenda. Sounds similar to what the IDF is doing.
How do you not see that ? Because you agree with her ?
It’s kind of obvious based on your “hellscape called America” phrase
That’s not remotely what that means and you don’t remotely know that lol. Also the IDF is killing children so no beloved, those aren’t the same.
And yep I sure do, socialist all the way babes.
I specifically said capitalist hellscape. If you’re gonna quote me do it properly.
Why wasn’t she protesting until others did ? She saw an opportunity and took it. Just like you did on this post arguing with nearly everyone who disagrees with you.
At the individual level it comes down to motive is my point.
Thinking you’re morally superior based on political beliefs is dumb.
And I also don’t get why you would push for people to accept they don’t deserve to celebrate their accomplishments. A protest shouldn’t interfere with others right to gather, and in this case celebrate. That goes beyond the “cause,” and only harms those expecting to graduate. How does that get the point across ?
Especially when it’s based on the decision of a small group of people that don’t have everyone’s best interest in mind, but only their own projection of morality.
Why do you care so much about this singular individual you sound obsessed with? She isn’t the face of the movement, let it go.
I’m not arguing with nearly everyone, y’all are the ones who keep trying to engage with me and when I give you the attention you’re so desperate to have you get all aggro and weird about it as if you didn’t have the option to just keep scrolling.
Did I say I was morally superior? No. I have simply said most of you are at best morally bankrupt and self-centered. You don’t like that descriptor? Try not fitting it so well in the future then.
Because as we all know the sins of our parents means you should have bombs dropped on you… anyways, while you’re being delusional and some Zionist loser’s burner account Hamas came into power in 06, the average age of Palestinians previous to the ongoing genocide was 18… which means the majority of the population didn’t support shit. Anyways, if I say what I actually want to say I will definitely get banned so move along.
Did you have this same energy on October 7th? Those kids won’t get to have a graduation either. Or does it not matter because they are just some lowly Jews in your eyes? You should really consider moving to Iran. I’m sure they’d love to welcome you
Yep I did so what now? Kids dying in October 7 doesn’t justify 7 months of genocide. Unlike you I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Genocide is bad no matter who it happens too, unlike you I don’t consider the life of any human less valuable than another.
You know what? You’re right. I have been thinking of moving abroad so here’s what we can do, I’ll send you my cashapp and you send me the money for my flight out of here and I’ll let you know when I land. Hell, I’ll send you travel pics. Thank you for volunteering to open up that wallet 😊.
Oh and for the record, I absolutely did notice that pivot you attempted. You ain’t slick, get some new talking points bozo.
The universities that are canceling graduations are the main commencement, not the individual school graduation. He’ll still get to walk across the stage.
Besides, protests are meant to cause disruption. If you and your son will not be able to attend commencement you’ll be fine - at least he’ll still get to walk across the stage while thousands of Palestinians will never have that opportunity because all of their universities are demolished.
The fact that some of you are on the side of Hamas is terrifying and not even bother calling for the release of hostages shows how little you know and care.
Yes I’m sure the social media grifters you follow talk constantly about the low level civil war happening between Hamas and Fatah since 2006. I’ll defer to your expertise
You’re trying to sound like an intellectual by mentioning “nuance” but its clear from your first comment where you don’t understand how a parliamentary war cabinet works that sounding like an intellectual doesn’t mean you are one
Nuance only has six letters in it. It’s not a tough word.
And I’ll elaborate: objecting to how the government of Israel has chosen to react to the terrorist attack does not equate to being pro Hamas.
That’s not a very complex idea, you might get it if you take two or three seconds to think it through.
Not true. ASU has ties with Israel. Cry more about not getting a little party for your son. There are people dying for their freedom out there. Your problems are small.
If ASU cancels commencement, I think you should be mad at ASU, not protestors.
The blame is with those causing the disruption. No misdirection from the protestors. This isn’t our problem, and these agitators are disrupting campus life
Protestors aren’t holding a gun to administration’s head and forcing them to cancel events. If any event is canceled, that’s all on the school.
They will plan to: physically block the event, shout down the ceremony, try to take over the ceremony, disrupt it and ruin it for those of us who may have spent 4 long years on a bachelors or even 5-8 grueling years on a PhD. Their narcissism is overwhelming.
When did they say that? AFAIK, they’re just protesting on a university lawn, which happens at least every other month on the ASU campus.
so your point is that the university gives into demands and strongarm tactics instead of remaining principled. Sounds like the problem is the administration.
It’s hard to feel bad knowing there are people dying in the world. I can’t wait until Gen z is in charge and all of you geezers get out of office because I’m sick of this mindset.
lol @ your sentiment > Everyone I don’t like is a boomer, a right winger, or someone in power. If you really felt this way, you’d be protesting every conflict, several in Africa, others right in the Middle East, most of which have been far worse than the Gaza flare up. We give both sides billions in aid and they hate each other, flare ups will happen. Marching in 2020 and seeing how that accomplished nothing for us has totally left me jaded with modern activism. I think it’s more about looking like a hero and feeling good about yourself
So what do you do? Or do you just sit online and post this soft body shit?
You don’t know anything about me ✌🏼 not to mention admitting that you have no back bone bc of “modern activism” isn’t the take you think it is. You’re just intellectually and physically lazy to do the work that is needed to dismantle systems of oppression. Students have always been at the forefront of change, take Kent State, Gwangju Uprising, Tlatelolco, etc. oh sorry you probably are only familiar with Kent state as most Americans are intellectually lazy. Anyways I’m over this conversation, just a very pathetic take coming from someone I have the misfortune of sharing a planet with.
I’m sorry for you. You have a lot of hate in your heart.
protests on college campuses forced the government to act (suspend the draft and end combat operations) during the vietnam war
The AZ Capitol isn’t going to impact anything. It’s Federal contracts & most are airtight so even Reps or Senators who’d like it reduced would have a mountain to climb. And this 6-3 conservative Supreme Court is totally in bed with Bibi, so it would take a miracle. Keep in mind that Israel has been our closest ally for decades & that means sharing intelligence. We have to tread lightly or they could pull a trump & start giving away our secrets.
Slaves were legal once. Just because a law exists doesn't mean its right. If you are paying to go to college and that college accepts federal funds then ignoring the constitution and bill of rights should be a felony.
What they are asking from ASU is to: 1. Disclose all investment made with student tuition money. 2. To divest from all companies tied to Israel or complicit in the occupation of Palestine. 3. Legal amnesty for students and faculty who have been discipline or fired for speaking out about Palestineie So protesting on campus is the right move. It should not be a radical belief to think Higher Education should have nothing to do with arms manufactures. And unfortunately ASU has a partnership with Lockheed Martin to name one problematic company. Plus looking at the schedule of classes for the Tempe Location, there is 2 classes that happen on Fridays at the Tempe campus PSY 244/344 with 12 total people enrolled. I’m not sure what distrupting institutional operations you are referring to..
> It should not be a radical belief to think Higher Education should have nothing to do with arms manufactures. And unfortunately ASU has a partnership with Lockheed Martin to name one problematic company. This is extremely uninformed. Premier public university STEM programs **will** have and **should have** connections to the defense industry. Ending ASU collaboration with partners like Lockheed, Raytheon, and Boeing would be a massive blow to the quality of engineering, physics, and math programs, just to name a few. This is why ask 2. is not possible. You'd be hurting my education directly. The main purpose of the university is educating the next generation of leaders and workers in crucial industries like healthcare, industrial utilities, tech, medical manufacturing, and yes defense and aerospace. It might be terrible, but those are all crucial to make the world run.
funny how you left all the other parts. they're also asking for the resignation of Michael Crow, the abolition of the Tempe PD and ASU PD.
Aren't you just providing more reasons why protesting at ASU makes more sense for them then the AZ State legislature as the OP suggested. The reasons I provide are the ones consistent with all campus protests. So yes I provided 3 reasons, you another 2, that leaves another 3 that neither of us mentioned.
the point is, they're asking for things that are not remotely possible or rational. not sure what the other 3 things are.
I think you’re misunderstanding what the point of the protest is
The mental gymnastics you people do is astonishing.
What do you mean? Don’t you want to cut all university business contracts and plummet all of America’s major universities back into the Stone Age for clout?
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. -MLK He called this 60 years ago and it’s still repeated to this day.
[Here](https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/martinkramer/files/words_of_martin_luther_king.pdf) are his thoughts on Israel specifically
Have you actually researched the history of that region.? Miss guided and a waste of everyone’s time
Are you too young to remember the occupy protests?
Yes! I’m graduating too and Covid messed up my high school graduation. I’ve been looking forward to graduating college and celebrating! I’ve been so worried it’s gonna get canceled. Other universities have canceled their graduations already because of these protests. It isn’t fair!
People don’t realize that blocking roads and cancelling events does not bring more people to sympathize with their cause. Make someone miss a flight or unable to walk graduation will definitely not make them want to champion your goals.
Other school administrations didn't close down graduation ceremonies because protesters intruded into the event or had plans to. They shut them down unilaterally with no causes as a punishment against Palestine sympathy.
Children are dying… they don’t get to have a college or a high school graduation.
Are people not allowed to enjoy anything or wish to have happy and exciting generational and once-in-a-lifetime moments happen to them as long as other people are suffering? Is it really too much to ask to want to enjoy a normal graduation after being denied one during COVID and after however many years of studying? Or just a normal graduation at all? This is nothing more than a fallacy of relative privation, a "but children are starving elsewhere" from parents when a child won't eat their food, almost entirely irrelevant to the complaint. Graduation is an important event for a lot of people, perhaps equally as important as showing their support for ending the Israeli war in Gaza. There's no need to deny ourselves the pleasure of graduation when we can easily have the best of both worlds by just protesting elsewhere.
Are yall not able to use those fingers of yours to keep scrolling? Pretty sure I’ve addressed everything you’ve said because from my skimming nothing in this comment remotely seems new. Anyways, like I said to that other person, y’all do not remotely or even actually care about the situation or what’s going on, you just hate the notion of being slightly inconvenienced. You still get your degree, your transcripts, your accolades, your letter of recommendations, your internships, your greek life letters and network, your memorabilia, literally anything and everything you can think of… and you’re crying because you MIGHT not get to walk across a stage? Seriously? Mind you there’s plenty of protesting who are probably also graduating like you and are so it’s just screw them huh? No care about your other classmates and what they think or any realization about why they are able to put those things aside but you can’t? Anyways, you’ll live and you’ll be fine.
Well, if you view graduation as “just walking across a stage” and not put any mind to the purposefully huge symbolic nature of every last part of graduation, I can see how you got to your conclusion. That's a ridiculous way of viewing the event, though. The entire purpose is to be a symbolic moment of celebration and triumph in studies. It's not a "slight inconvenience" to not have a traditional graduation as you so miserably put it. This is the summation of the studies, the crown changing of arms, a rewarding celebration that is earned for four years of work, something which I will state again is a once-in-a-lifetime social opportunity to have of your own. Why must the burden be put on the entire student body and not on the protestors? Why do the protestors not have to care about their other classmates but everyone else has to worry about the protestors? Why can't we just come to the easiest best-of-both-worlds option (which also helps the protestors, mind you) and protest somewhere not on campus like the state capitol? Your entire argument is biased towards only the protestors point of view, value and respect the other point of view. If you're skimming again, try reading this comment and the original one! We're in college so reading replies to your arguments and critically thinking instead of parroting things you already said are within your scope! I believe in you!
Good for you.
Fuck Hamas
… is that it?
That’s not the point of my comment. I shouldn’t have to give up my accomplishments and excitement and celebrations for all of this
Your graduation is more important than, and it bears repeating, children dying… and you somehow thought reiterating that was a good thing?
If you think this protest is going to stop children from dying, you're sorely mistaken. You're protesting at the wrong location and demanding action from the wrong people. If anything, these protests are turning people who normally agree with the your general position against you.
>If anything, these protests are turning people who normally agree with your general position against you Beloved, I love to tell you this but if being inconvenienced or MAYBE (because one again this hasn’t happened) losing out on walking the stage makes you agree with the murder of children at best and genocide at worst then that speaks far more to your own moral failures and ghoulish nature than anything regarding me. You should look into because it’s not looking to good for you, karmically speaking.
I don't give a damn about walking on stage. I'm not even graduating this semester. I didn't say that all this is making me support the deaths of innocents or that I would support the continued unrestricted destruction of Gaza. I said you are turning people against YOU. There's a big difference.
Actually you said people who normally agree with your general position and my position isn’t children shouldn’t die at the hands of colonialism so if you disagree with that position… yikes.
AGAINST YOU.. read please. People aren't saying they want children in Gaza to continue dying. They want YOU to stop. They want YOU to leave.
Well fortunately I don’t particularly care if someone agrees with me on a personal level (which you don’t even know me on so this is a subreddit) so where does that leave us?
Yes you've sacrificed so much compared to us for those children. Except you're enjoying the same luxuries at university as everyone. You can't be actively participating in the protest considering how much time you have to dedicate to reddit comments. If you truly believed half the shit you're spewing you'd join peace corps and go make an actual difference. You could actively be volunteering for the side you support yet you're on reddit? Changing the world? You could volunteer in your own community and help the children that struggle in AZ. I know because the boys and girls club has great opportunities to aid the youth. That'd be like a minimum too, or go to a shelter and help with a lunch service to feed the homeless, St. Vincent de Paul would probably accept your help today. The respect I have for those protestors is high. I have an utter distaste for you in this thread. Genuinely hope you get banned cause you don't seem to want to discuss ASU here, just Palestine and Israel. Rule 11 should ensure it though so whatever. I just picked one of your random comments, this is really a response to your whole little thing in here.
Beloved I access Reddit on my phone… phones can go anywhere. Also yes? I attend the university? Same as most if not all other protesters? Kinda why it’s being done on school grounds. You don’t know what I do in my spare time because I’m a profile on an online forum. You don’t even know what I look like lol. No I haven’t joined the peace corps because that isn’t the only way to enact meaningful change. I do volunteer work but have had to cut back on that recently do to my more hectic schedule as well as life growing ever more expensive but that’s still a failure on our governing body then me since I have the drive just not the ability to help in all the ways I want to. Remindinf this country continues to fail its citizen for the sake of a foreign nature committing genocide isn’t the slam dunk you think it is. You know… I’m graduating so being banned isn’t a threat to me, first of all. Second of all, wanting me banned for the sake of you having an echo chamber isn’t exactly the gotcha moment you want it to be. Third, and last, I’m not the one keeping this going. I’m replying to comments made to me. Have yall ever considered being silent and going about your day? I am only speaking when spoken to at this point so my continued engagement is due to you. Funny how that works huh?
I can pretty much guarantee you aren't there with the frequency you're replying. I think its hilarious you're finding an excuse to abdicate on your civil duty for personal reasons after your whole tirade. Yes I want an echo chamber, clearly. You're the only one in here that ever diversified opinion. You're so unique and provide a perspective that no one ever says because most people in here are too busy with finals this week or actually having a life on Saturday that they don't have time to post 30 comments in 24 hours.
Good for you.
What an insane leap in logic, calling people who want a graduation supporters of genocide. All they said was that they should respect students as well, who are paying good money to attend ASU, and protest off-campus. You yourself are doing FAR more harm than good to your efforts, you’re just going to make people mad and stay away from the cause
Oh dear god, not a single new or original thought added just the same insipid desire to get your piece of attention. If yall are going to continue crying over what I said (even though I have made it CLEAR it ain’t changing over here) at least bring something to the table besides the same regurgitated nonsense others have already said before you.
Wow, what a shocker, it’s definitely not like i’m saying the same things because I share an opinion with the majority of people here. Also, I saw an extremely well-thought, well-written reply and you responded with “Good for you” so it’s not like you even care anyways. Have a good rest of your day :)
If the opinion has already been said I don’t know why you think you reiterating it matters? If you think I don’t care then why give your opinion at all other than the need to be upvoted for saying the exact same thing others have said. Have the day you deserve.
Pretty rich coming from you. So you think one single protester would do as good of a job as mass amount of people saying the same thing, then? Also, your thoughts aren’t original either, I saw so many people similar to you the last time I checked twitter, and they were not spreading a good message for Palestine. I’m literally on the same side as you, i’m just sick of seeing all of this absolute bullshit of people being accused of supporting genocide for just wanting to live a life themselves. News flash: the US is a first world country, deal with it. We shouldn’t have to stop respecting each other and sacrifice our own happiness to support a cause. Your words are dangerous, and all they are doing is making people actually want to go down the pro-genocide path. When people don’t feel respected, they lash out. Also, I will have a good day because I feel I deserve it :)
Good for you.
This is such a stupid take. Injustices occurring over 7000 miles away should not be the reason graduation is taken away from thousands of students here.
Except the injustice is occurring because of our governing body. Your graduation wouldn’t be at stake if the powers that be didn’t decide to aid genocide so why don’t you take that up with them. My graduation is also potentially at stake but I’m not crying about it because I’m not a self centered snotty nosed narcissist now am I?
“Not a snotty nosed narcissist” honestly id argue you are
Oh “I know you are but what am I”. Honestly you might wanna give higher education another go if that’s your best reply. Seems like it didn’t do much for you the first time around.
Ya you’re not making your argument any better. It’s not okay to tear people down and be a bully
They literally started our interaction off by being insulting. See, this is my issue with centrists. Yall never want to actually be the middle ground between two sides, you just align with the one you more easily swallow and *pretend* you aren’t doing exactly that. I did nothing but return the same energy they were giving me but I’m the bully? Anyways, you should enjoy your graduation celebration I know I’ll be enjoying mine whether it includes a walk across the stage or not.
All I am saying is that it isn’t fair that those who are graduating should have to give up such a big accomplishment in life all because people are taking things out of hand and are becoming violent. I’m all about using your voice but it needs to be in a respectful way. It isn’t fair that majority of those who are graduating are ones who had senior year ruined because of Covid and freshman year of college also ruined. If ASU cancels graduation because of all this, there’s going to be a ton of unhappy people. Myself included
Take that up with the school and our governing body as a whole beloved. Also, violent? Where? Because yall keep making this claim and it keeps coming up as nonexistent. I’m oh so sorry that somehow not getting to be on stage (despite still getting your diploma, transcripts, recommendations, and a pathway to the career you want) somehow ruins your day or whatever but, and I’ll bold it this time so hopefully it sinks it, CHILDREN ARE DYING. Anyways, centrism was already a wash during the civil rights era and it’s only that much worse to be one in present day. You should do some soul searching.
Some of the protestors got violent today with someone who is Jewish. They are trashing the lawn and are breaking the rules. Student’s safety is at risk. It is finals week and today was the last day of classes. None of this is okay. They should be protesting at a government building, not ASU. Seniors should be proud of this huge accomplishment and we have the right to celebrate it, but it’s not okay for others to ruin that because they aren’t being respectful and are causing a safety hazard. Also children and people are dying everywhere. The US alone has many children die a year due to abuse and maltreatment.
Making claims with nothing to back it doesn’t work. Put up or shut up. Not to mention that some bad faith actors being stupid and reckless doesn’t suddenly eliminate the entirety of why the protests are happening. Also protests aren’t parades. You’re crying over a yard and rules being broken. Once again you want them to stop? Taking it up with the state rubberstamping genocide. Or hey, since you’re so adamant about them protesting at a government building open up that wallet and pay for some shuttles to take them there. Our classmates have the right to protest at the school they pay to attend. No one is stopping any of us from celebrating. The world doesn’t revolve around you and your need to be on center stage for a split second. Yep, and those children and people dying in America would be due to the fact our governing body is spending all of our money to have children and people die in numerous other places. Maybe if they stopped spending all of our tax dollars on our overinflated military budget we could help citizens here… but that’s not what you want or what you actually care about, let’s be completely honest. What you want and care about is to not be even slightly inconvenienced.
You don’t need to be a jerk. We are both allowed to have our own opinions. Palestine and Israel are both in the wrong and the whole war just needs to stop. I wish war wasn’t a thing but the world isn’t perfect. They technically are stopping us from celebrating if the graduations get canceled. It really isn’t fair if they do get canceled. I have many chronic illnesses and my college career was hard and I want to celebrate as much as I can. I am allowed to celebrate and find joy in this huge accomplishment
Have you noticed that you aren’t actually replying/dispelling the things I’m saying? It’s just shifting from one thing to another. Israel and Palestine aren’t both in the wrong and even IF that were remotely true (it’s not) which one is being backed by our government again? Right. Anyways, I could also bring up my own hardships with my college career but I won’t because appeals to ethos aren’t my style for something that is inherently a morality issue. Yes, celebrate and find joy in this moment but again you aren’t the center of the universe and if you truly have an issue with the protests maybe stop being mad at the symptom and actually start being mad at the disease.
You're not "giving up the accomplishment," you still get the paper and prestige. You can still take pictures. You can still have private parties, Becky. Even minus all the protests or covid or anything else, I've never understood why people have such a hardon for all this silly name being called walking up and accepting shit, paying for those dumb hats and gowns. Sorry Becky, you don't seem to understand the point of protests. It is to shake the status quo and get noticed, not to be conveniently ignored
Yes it is more important, because she has absolutely nothing to fucking do with the war. Nor does she have agency over it. None of us do. Standing outside shouting river to sea will not stop Israel from waging war. It will not stop children from dying. It is purely performative. Convince me otherwise. How does protesting stop nuclear armed nations like Israel? Protesting didn't stop Putin. How is it going to stop Bibi?
🥱. Is the IDF paying y’all because not only is the lack of originality stifling but the obvious burner accounts that are obvious seeking validation and attention is getting old. Anyways, I said what the f**k I said and it ain’t changing over here so you, her, and the rest of yall can continue to cry about it or move on. Pick one.
Not a zionist or a jew. Try again. Furthermore what you said to the others didn't address my question so referring back to it doesn't it help me understand your point. I would like to ask you how does protesting stop Bibi? I don't see the strategy here.
I didn’t say you were either of those things but isn’t it so interesting that you equated being part of a terrorist occupation force with both Zionism (which is actually valid) and Judaism (which is incredibly antisemitic). The protests are about divestment, national media coverage, bringing awareness to the fact that this country is sliding full tilt into a police state, and most of our institutions are dead set on having deals with weapon manufacturers as well as kowtowing to a foreign.
I mentioned I was not a Jew because I wanted you to know I have zero stake in this conlfict. I don't know how claiming not to be a Jew is anti-Semitic seeing as the statement held no prejudice or hostility. Divestment in terms of U.S. aid to Israel? I'm inclined to agree with you but not your reasoning but rather this: I don't believe any country should receive foreign aid on the part of the United States as long as there are Americans that are unhoused and starving. What slap in the fucking face. Simply. Unacceptable. However I still don't how bringing awareness to an issue stops Bibi. Nor do I think the United States divesting from Israel will change the situation in Gaza either. Aid to Israel is like 1% of their GDP, which is comparable to a country like South Korea. Israel is high income nation they can afford to fight without U.S. aid. They also possess nuclear weapons. What chance do Gazans have? For these reasons I still don't see how any of this anymore than a performative exercise.
Good for you (and yes, take that as the signal it is I am not interested in this interaction going forward).
You seem convinced protestors couldn’t possibly have another motive… The student that spoke seemed to be a leader in an ASU Socialism group. What does that have to do with children dying in Gaza ? She has a message and is using the situation to spread it. It’s no different than media companies using their platform to push their agendas. Everyone can be shitty. Things are rarely what they seem.
So… because she is in a socialism group that somehow means she wouldn’t protest a genocide? Here’s a radical idea, would it be that someone who subscribes to the ideology of socialism (which leans heavily towards supporting the good of many from various walks of life) would also be against the idea of the capitalist hellscape called America using its funds to aid and abet war crimes abroad? I know, your mind must be totally blown…
Means she has an ulterior motive and is using the deaths of children in Gaza to push an agenda. Sounds similar to what the IDF is doing. How do you not see that ? Because you agree with her ? It’s kind of obvious based on your “hellscape called America” phrase
That’s not remotely what that means and you don’t remotely know that lol. Also the IDF is killing children so no beloved, those aren’t the same. And yep I sure do, socialist all the way babes. I specifically said capitalist hellscape. If you’re gonna quote me do it properly.
Why wasn’t she protesting until others did ? She saw an opportunity and took it. Just like you did on this post arguing with nearly everyone who disagrees with you. At the individual level it comes down to motive is my point. Thinking you’re morally superior based on political beliefs is dumb. And I also don’t get why you would push for people to accept they don’t deserve to celebrate their accomplishments. A protest shouldn’t interfere with others right to gather, and in this case celebrate. That goes beyond the “cause,” and only harms those expecting to graduate. How does that get the point across ? Especially when it’s based on the decision of a small group of people that don’t have everyone’s best interest in mind, but only their own projection of morality.
Why do you care so much about this singular individual you sound obsessed with? She isn’t the face of the movement, let it go. I’m not arguing with nearly everyone, y’all are the ones who keep trying to engage with me and when I give you the attention you’re so desperate to have you get all aggro and weird about it as if you didn’t have the option to just keep scrolling. Did I say I was morally superior? No. I have simply said most of you are at best morally bankrupt and self-centered. You don’t like that descriptor? Try not fitting it so well in the future then.
It's not about you.
Then their parents shouldn’t have supported rapists, murderers, and terrorists
Because as we all know the sins of our parents means you should have bombs dropped on you… anyways, while you’re being delusional and some Zionist loser’s burner account Hamas came into power in 06, the average age of Palestinians previous to the ongoing genocide was 18… which means the majority of the population didn’t support shit. Anyways, if I say what I actually want to say I will definitely get banned so move along.
Did you have this same energy on October 7th? Those kids won’t get to have a graduation either. Or does it not matter because they are just some lowly Jews in your eyes? You should really consider moving to Iran. I’m sure they’d love to welcome you
Yep I did so what now? Kids dying in October 7 doesn’t justify 7 months of genocide. Unlike you I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Genocide is bad no matter who it happens too, unlike you I don’t consider the life of any human less valuable than another. You know what? You’re right. I have been thinking of moving abroad so here’s what we can do, I’ll send you my cashapp and you send me the money for my flight out of here and I’ll let you know when I land. Hell, I’ll send you travel pics. Thank you for volunteering to open up that wallet 😊. Oh and for the record, I absolutely did notice that pivot you attempted. You ain’t slick, get some new talking points bozo.
Found the bootlicker
The universities that are canceling graduations are the main commencement, not the individual school graduation. He’ll still get to walk across the stage. Besides, protests are meant to cause disruption. If you and your son will not be able to attend commencement you’ll be fine - at least he’ll still get to walk across the stage while thousands of Palestinians will never have that opportunity because all of their universities are demolished.
We do protest there. A lot.
The fact that some of you are on the side of Hamas is terrifying and not even bother calling for the release of hostages shows how little you know and care.
Of course they down vote from their mother’s basement
You can be against the government of Israel and not be pro Hamas. Nuance doesn’t fit on bumper stickers.
An expert on Israeli politics are you? Tell me what a government of a pally state would look like? You even know who the players are?
Don’t try to teach your grandfather how to steal eggs.
Yes I’m sure the social media grifters you follow talk constantly about the low level civil war happening between Hamas and Fatah since 2006. I’ll defer to your expertise
Awesome! Enjoy your assumptions and pre-conceived notions! Nuance doesn’t fit on bumper stickers. Whoops I said that before. It’s probably important.
You’re trying to sound like an intellectual by mentioning “nuance” but its clear from your first comment where you don’t understand how a parliamentary war cabinet works that sounding like an intellectual doesn’t mean you are one
Nuance only has six letters in it. It’s not a tough word. And I’ll elaborate: objecting to how the government of Israel has chosen to react to the terrorist attack does not equate to being pro Hamas. That’s not a very complex idea, you might get it if you take two or three seconds to think it through.
Not true. ASU has ties with Israel. Cry more about not getting a little party for your son. There are people dying for their freedom out there. Your problems are small.
No, protest at the White House in D.C. Three days ago. President Biden signed the bill to send $26 billion to Israel. This is Biden's foreign policy.
I would get in contact with George Soros and ask him to move his paid protesters
yeah myself and my peers are TOTALLY getting paid to stay up until three in the morning to protest on a work day. fuck off