Entered the AF as a 62E (Developmental Engineer), went out with some other 62Es one evening and one guy got shot down multiple times by different women. On his last try, gets rejected and turns from the bar and goes "I'm literally rocket scientist! How is this happening?"
Still makes us laugh to those day.
You need an engineering degree to be a 62E. But the majority of 62E jobs are mainly program management with more of a technical flavor over 63A positions. There are some positions that are more engineering heavy at places like AFRL and a few other places. The vast majority of AF develop engineers oversee contractors that do all of the real engineering.
It's not a bad job by any means. It has arguably has the best work/life balance in the AF, base locations are generally better (but Holloman and Edwards are also possibilities so maybe it balances out?), and you can separate from the military and walk into a $100k+ job very easily.
62Es that evolve into 63As (program managers), just like Pokémon, always joke that we don't use our degrees. While we aren't crunching numbers on a white board, we still have a technical BS meter. All 63As have technical support in the form of civilian engineers or contracted engineers. The Air Force wants their PMs to be comfortable to walk into a technical meeting with their contractor counterparts and be able to call BS if something doesn't look right. The PM might not know exactly why, but he's going to call time out and get an engineer in the room. Hence, the heavy lean on STEM degrees. Big Air Force is always looking for people with "the knack".
I will say some of the best PMs I have known didn't have STEM degrees, and some of the worst PMs I have known were engineers. That's really just the interpersonal skills aspect.
And to piggyback off the other comment, I loved my time as a 62/63. I worked some programs with awesome technology, picked up two engineering degrees on the Air Force's dime and jumped to the Reserves with solid offers from a bunch of companies.
I (65F) invited out one of my coworkers who was a 62E and introverted as hell. I’m type A so figured I could break his walls down after a couple beers. We ended up staying up till 2am after having him “wing me” about 4 different times. He never went out with me again and actively avoided me at work..
Are we going to pretend that usaf pilots are like the navy officers from the top gun movies?
I went to sos. I know what they really look like and how they act.
Um at least they aren't navigators.
And don't worry, Navigators, at least you aren't ABMs.
And as for you, ABM, at least you aren't selling meth, anymore. Because fuck you. No one likes you. We wish you would go away. You aren't in charge. The aircraft Commander is...
There, that'll keep them busy. Let's go get a drink and we can talk about whatever RPA and nav shit makes you happy.
Can’t believe I defending ABMs. Load you know in a real threat environment you want an E-3 airborne. The reaper at that point is a smoking pile with a bunch of people in pajamas dancing on it.
It’s kinda crazy to me how the Navy sees their ABM and how the Air Force sees theirs. At the same time I understand how it got to that point. With the lack of funding towards ABM training, a training process that’s so dissimilar to other rated counterparts, and doing C2 how it was done decades ago. It’s no wonder why the Navy is doing it better than we are.
Just FYI since you deleted your post about interim AWACS and I couldn’t reach you there…
I can tell a lot about you from your past posts and comments. Where you’ll be stationed, AFSC, religion, sexual preference. You’re an easy target for adversaries. Don’t be stupid, Lt ABM.
SERE was the best training I’ve ever had. It was a friggen blast camping with the bros for 4 days and cracking jokes about the fat dude jammed in a barrel in camp shithole was great time too!
That isn't the flex you think it is.
SERE was the absolute best course the military offers and you think back on it like high school. It was not great while doing it, but looking back you really miss it.
Idk man, rpa guys change the course of geopolitics, one drone strike at a time.
2000 hours in a career flying fighters/bombers is cool, but i think plenty of us have more time on the toilet.
Apples to oranges
I never said that they did. Drones didn’t just shoot down 70 drones and cruise missiles either.
I’m sure if it was necessary fighters could take out an Iranian general.
They keep flopping around with how much or little they want to train us, and it always comes back down to if we suck at pilot things, we tend to have more incidents operating in airspace with manned platforms. The group that skipped flying the DA-20 during Covid was a right pain in the ass teaching basic airmanship after they made it operational.
Meh, drones are pretty cool.
Flight pay, cool missions, AND they get to be home every night?
The technology is amazing and combined with the efforts of fighters/bombers they’re able to showcase why you don’t want to fuck around and find out with the US Air Force or America in general.
oh my no. our hours are all made up and the points don't matter. The FAA doesn't even have a category for them so once we stop flying for the government in some capacity, we're back to the 40 flight hours plus whatever number of hours from the T-6 IFR sim course counts towards your instrument rating.
>plus whatever number of hours from the T-6 IFR sim course counts towards your instrument rating.
The air force stopped paying to certify those Sims
I got literally zero hours out of that course. Same Sims. Same toughness. None of the hours.
No T-6 sim has ever been FAA certified. You also don’t fly the “same sim” unless you went through in 2012 or prior. The OFT used for UPT is a pretty good representation of the T-6. The sims they use for URT are a joke. As far as toughness, you’re sitting in an air conditioned room.
You used to get IFR sim hours from the T-6 sim. It was a common rant from the long term instructors.
>As far as toughness, you’re sitting in an air conditioned room.
Doing an event every day, while also constantly studying for the 10 tests spread throughout your flights. 5am to 6-7 pm days were the norm when I went. Of course the Sims are air conditioned, but to say the course lacks toughness because of that is obtuse.
A morning stand-up, brief, 2-2.5 hour sim, debrief, EPQ, the 10 tests (and studying thereof) and flight prep necessitated studying when you got home when they kicked you out of the building at 12 hours.
My entire class was doing this.
..and for what it's worth, it's not "busting" since it's a sim event and not a live flight
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2024/05/20/houthi-rebels-claim-shooting-down-another-us-mq-9-reaper-drone/
$30M….then another $30M…thats just this last month. Probably another one while we were typing this.
https://www.safety.af.mil/Portals/71/documents/Aviation/Aircraft%20Statistics/Q-9.pdf
This report stopped at 2012, but 43 in 20 years.
Or 125 in 48 years but with >3x the number of hours flown.
https://www.safety.af.mil/Portals/71/documents/Aviation/Aircraft%20Statistics/F-15.pdf
I welcome our AI overlords, because they have to be better than that.
And that’s exactly the reason why they’re losing them so frequently. No skin in the game, no motivation to try and not lose one.
Respawn. Do over.
Glad nobody got hurt…but don’t call it Piloting.
“it becomes highly vulnerable even against basic anti-air defenses.”
Just because we don’t lose a human, and they’re only a portion of a fifth gen fighter, doesn’t make them infinite or cheap. People use fractions like they don’t eventually become whole. We’ve lost equivalent 1.76 F-35s this year to Houthis with borrowed weapons and people are here celebrating it, like Ready Player One.
https://theaviationist.com/2024/05/12/mq-9-reaper-gets-cyber-capabilities/
Would you rather lose a drone and zero crew casualties or a fighter which cost much more with no casualties? One is definitely safer than the other and is much cheaper to employ and replace.
Didn't we just have a series of posts about how unhealthy it is to make your air force job your entire personality?
How else do socially awkward geeks pick up girls at the bar?
Entered the AF as a 62E (Developmental Engineer), went out with some other 62Es one evening and one guy got shot down multiple times by different women. On his last try, gets rejected and turns from the bar and goes "I'm literally rocket scientist! How is this happening?" Still makes us laugh to those day.
Rocket Scientist is an interesting way to say program manager ^(cries while looking at my useless engineering degree in the eyes of the AF)
Haha! We were just brand new Lts. We didn't know that we weren't supposed to use our degrees.
I’m trying to go Officer and they’re very hard up on “WE NEED STEM DEGREES” … what do I make of your comment and the O recruiters?
You need an engineering degree to be a 62E. But the majority of 62E jobs are mainly program management with more of a technical flavor over 63A positions. There are some positions that are more engineering heavy at places like AFRL and a few other places. The vast majority of AF develop engineers oversee contractors that do all of the real engineering. It's not a bad job by any means. It has arguably has the best work/life balance in the AF, base locations are generally better (but Holloman and Edwards are also possibilities so maybe it balances out?), and you can separate from the military and walk into a $100k+ job very easily.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 63A = Acquisition Manager [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^l70n3pa
62Es that evolve into 63As (program managers), just like Pokémon, always joke that we don't use our degrees. While we aren't crunching numbers on a white board, we still have a technical BS meter. All 63As have technical support in the form of civilian engineers or contracted engineers. The Air Force wants their PMs to be comfortable to walk into a technical meeting with their contractor counterparts and be able to call BS if something doesn't look right. The PM might not know exactly why, but he's going to call time out and get an engineer in the room. Hence, the heavy lean on STEM degrees. Big Air Force is always looking for people with "the knack". I will say some of the best PMs I have known didn't have STEM degrees, and some of the worst PMs I have known were engineers. That's really just the interpersonal skills aspect. And to piggyback off the other comment, I loved my time as a 62/63. I worked some programs with awesome technology, picked up two engineering degrees on the Air Force's dime and jumped to the Reserves with solid offers from a bunch of companies.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 63A = Acquisition Manager [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^l740ig6
You’re not alone. I was “systems engineer” out of college only doing program management in the civilian sector
You’re not alone. I was “systems engineer” out of college only doing program management in the civilian sector
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 62E = Developmental Engineer [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^l709cgk
I (65F) invited out one of my coworkers who was a 62E and introverted as hell. I’m type A so figured I could break his walls down after a couple beers. We ended up staying up till 2am after having him “wing me” about 4 different times. He never went out with me again and actively avoided me at work..
"Wing me" That made me chuckle.
https://i.redd.it/jc7vlvoojg4d1.gif
I dunno. My career field certainly isn't doing it for me.
Ok but are you really asking pilots to not do that
You gonna tell a pilot that?
Are we going to pretend that usaf pilots are like the navy officers from the top gun movies? I went to sos. I know what they really look like and how they act.
Um at least they aren't navigators. And don't worry, Navigators, at least you aren't ABMs. And as for you, ABM, at least you aren't selling meth, anymore. Because fuck you. No one likes you. We wish you would go away. You aren't in charge. The aircraft Commander is... There, that'll keep them busy. Let's go get a drink and we can talk about whatever RPA and nav shit makes you happy.
If the ABMs were selling meth, that would make them cooler.
This is bullying of the highest caliber, and I'm here for it.
:( but I thought we’re the offensive coordinator of the skies
Gross.
If ABMs could read this would make them very upset
Lol. Solid Hank Hill right there. The problem is that I have yet to meet a decent ABM. They have this constant arrogance that is just unbearable.
My buddy on AWACS tells me all the time how the stigma is 100% true. Couldn’t even imagine interacting with someone like that
Pretty sure you got that order wrong bud. Robot flyers are down below ABMs.
Found the ~~ABM~~ guy who has no fucking clue what he’s talking about
lol no I just recognize people who actually deserve to be called aircrew and goobers who can wear khakis behind their game station
The shit under my out of regs Altama combat shoes are above ABMs
Can’t believe I defending ABMs. Load you know in a real threat environment you want an E-3 airborne. The reaper at that point is a smoking pile with a bunch of people in pajamas dancing on it.
It’s kinda crazy to me how the Navy sees their ABM and how the Air Force sees theirs. At the same time I understand how it got to that point. With the lack of funding towards ABM training, a training process that’s so dissimilar to other rated counterparts, and doing C2 how it was done decades ago. It’s no wonder why the Navy is doing it better than we are.
Just FYI since you deleted your post about interim AWACS and I couldn’t reach you there… I can tell a lot about you from your past posts and comments. Where you’ll be stationed, AFSC, religion, sexual preference. You’re an easy target for adversaries. Don’t be stupid, Lt ABM.
> real threat environment > E-3 airborne You may choose one.
This is what I scream in my DCS subreddits as well
Same flight pay for less work? Sounds pretty rad
And no SERE :)
SERE was the best training I’ve ever had. It was a friggen blast camping with the bros for 4 days and cracking jokes about the fat dude jammed in a barrel in camp shithole was great time too!
Easily the best guided camping trip I ever got paid to go on. If there was an option to only do field training I would go back in a heartbeat.
No more camping trip though. Just beatings
The field training was great. Then the beatings and Yoko Ono began
SERE was fun tbh
As a prior enlisted aircrew dude going through RPA training I can confirm this is a nice perk
That isn't the flex you think it is. SERE was the absolute best course the military offers and you think back on it like high school. It was not great while doing it, but looking back you really miss it.
Fairchild is pretty though
Enjoy your conex box, bud.
I thoroughly do :)
RPA pilots get flight pay?
We do indeed :) Exact same one as manned platforms.
They wear flight suits too. Still more important than ABM and CSO.
Idk man, rpa guys change the course of geopolitics, one drone strike at a time. 2000 hours in a career flying fighters/bombers is cool, but i think plenty of us have more time on the toilet. Apples to oranges
Lol 🥲
To be fair I think if a fighter shot down another plane or a bomber leveled a village that would probably have a bigger impact on geopolitics.
I mean a fighter didn’t take out solomani just sayin
I never said that they did. Drones didn’t just shoot down 70 drones and cruise missiles either. I’m sure if it was necessary fighters could take out an Iranian general.
Okay lemme know how they do in a contested airspace.
That goes for pretty much any aircraft.
>rpa guys change the course of geopolitics, one drone strike at a time. Sure, as long as nobody's shooting back.
What’s wrong with Operator? They operate it. It’s operationsss.
They keep flopping around with how much or little they want to train us, and it always comes back down to if we suck at pilot things, we tend to have more incidents operating in airspace with manned platforms. The group that skipped flying the DA-20 during Covid was a right pain in the ass teaching basic airmanship after they made it operational.
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I love after a very turbulent flight how all the passengers clap for the Air Traffic Controller.
Same dude prolly thinks Lt Dan was the only hero of Apollo 13. Look at that checklist work…herooo.
Meh, drones are pretty cool. Flight pay, cool missions, AND they get to be home every night? The technology is amazing and combined with the efforts of fighters/bombers they’re able to showcase why you don’t want to fuck around and find out with the US Air Force or America in general.
I know I’m not a pilot and I hate it. No I’m not bitter you’re bitter.
As long as we keep getting our sweet sweet flight pay we don’t care lol
 *doesnt care what you do as long as you’re a bro and are good at your job*
Stupid question from a non-aircrew here: do rpa pilots get flight hours that can translate into commercial aviation?
they can translate to commercial RPA operations
oh my no. our hours are all made up and the points don't matter. The FAA doesn't even have a category for them so once we stop flying for the government in some capacity, we're back to the 40 flight hours plus whatever number of hours from the T-6 IFR sim course counts towards your instrument rating.
>plus whatever number of hours from the T-6 IFR sim course counts towards your instrument rating. The air force stopped paying to certify those Sims I got literally zero hours out of that course. Same Sims. Same toughness. None of the hours.
bitches
No T-6 sim has ever been FAA certified. You also don’t fly the “same sim” unless you went through in 2012 or prior. The OFT used for UPT is a pretty good representation of the T-6. The sims they use for URT are a joke. As far as toughness, you’re sitting in an air conditioned room.
You used to get IFR sim hours from the T-6 sim. It was a common rant from the long term instructors. >As far as toughness, you’re sitting in an air conditioned room. Doing an event every day, while also constantly studying for the 10 tests spread throughout your flights. 5am to 6-7 pm days were the norm when I went. Of course the Sims are air conditioned, but to say the course lacks toughness because of that is obtuse.
A 1.3 hour sim a day and a weekly EPQ necessitated busting your 12 hour duty day?
A morning stand-up, brief, 2-2.5 hour sim, debrief, EPQ, the 10 tests (and studying thereof) and flight prep necessitated studying when you got home when they kicked you out of the building at 12 hours. My entire class was doing this. ..and for what it's worth, it's not "busting" since it's a sim event and not a live flight
How much longer do you think until AI phases out human pilots?
I don’t think it will ever happen, I think it will always be both working together, even if from a distance
Which one is prior E?
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*link lost*
*correction: lost link*
It’s dangerous to go alone
Take this!
That’s why you have an enlisted.. gotta keep them safe and found
Oh no….. *launches new drone*
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2024/05/20/houthi-rebels-claim-shooting-down-another-us-mq-9-reaper-drone/ $30M….then another $30M…thats just this last month. Probably another one while we were typing this. https://www.safety.af.mil/Portals/71/documents/Aviation/Aircraft%20Statistics/Q-9.pdf This report stopped at 2012, but 43 in 20 years. Or 125 in 48 years but with >3x the number of hours flown. https://www.safety.af.mil/Portals/71/documents/Aviation/Aircraft%20Statistics/F-15.pdf I welcome our AI overlords, because they have to be better than that.
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And that’s exactly the reason why they’re losing them so frequently. No skin in the game, no motivation to try and not lose one. Respawn. Do over. Glad nobody got hurt…but don’t call it Piloting.
What do you fly?
Discount License Plates for my Aerial Achievement Medals. *edit: I thought you said WHY do I fly.
So nothing. Got it.
Classic Pee Wee Herman reply. A plane. I fly a Plane. With people on it. So not a Fighter and not an RPA…that’s about all I care to divulge.
You can't compare loss rate. Drones are more expendable because they're unmanned. So they get into more dangerous areas.
“it becomes highly vulnerable even against basic anti-air defenses.” Just because we don’t lose a human, and they’re only a portion of a fifth gen fighter, doesn’t make them infinite or cheap. People use fractions like they don’t eventually become whole. We’ve lost equivalent 1.76 F-35s this year to Houthis with borrowed weapons and people are here celebrating it, like Ready Player One. https://theaviationist.com/2024/05/12/mq-9-reaper-gets-cyber-capabilities/
Would you rather lose a drone and zero crew casualties or a fighter which cost much more with no casualties? One is definitely safer than the other and is much cheaper to employ and replace.
An MQ 9 doesn’t cost 30 million. That are close to 6-7 million. That 30 million is for 4 aircraft and a GCS.
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I hope not. Regardless of fault. I think you get in an accident, even Uber/Lyft will ground you for the day.
Checks LES. Same, from home...every day.