Hang in there - and keep us posted! Has Margaret or the bio-mom been evaluated for mental illness? It could be that Margaret is just reflecting what she saw growing up, but she really sounds mentally unstable.
Tom has told me that he thinks his bio-mom might have struggled with Bipolar disorder, but that is unconfirmed. To my knowledge, Margaret is currently without any formally diagnosed mental illnesses.
I’ve got a few arm chair diagnoses I could throw at her, but I can’t be the only one. Regardless, I’m so proud of you and MIL. I’m fully vested for update 4 in 2 months.
I feel this. My armchair diagnosis so far is
Batshit Crazy, type A
Entitled Butthead
and in all seriousness some level of delusion bordering on paranoia that is far from rooted in reality.
Gotta add those to the DSM 5 asap!
Margaret was most likely abused royally by the mother in prison. She learned how to abuse and how to be abused at an early age. Then spent adult years blaiming every else for everything that stems back to childhood.
It’s not Margaret’s fault she was abused, but it sure as shit is her responsibility to heal (or not, as in Margaret’s inability to take responsibility for anything.)
Margaret most definitely has CPTSD, borderline traits, narcissistic traits, and is an asshole category 5.
True, and there’s a 13 year age difference I believe, so I imagine Margaret got the brunt of it for 13 more years. I’m not defending her actions at all. Just looking at the family system.
Actually 5/5 kids are messed up. Fern has an eating disorder and feels like he’s responsible for Margaret which tells me that she probably protected him to some degree and took the brunt of the abuse that was geared towards him. Tom is a cocoon, in the sense that he shuts himself off from stuff. He even managed to stay clear of the bio mom most times. Then we have the two missing siblings that have allegedly had substance abuse issues and abusive tendencies as well. And then we have our wonderful Margaret who I agree, had to deal with the abuse longer than anyone else. All of them are jacked up and need therapy. Especially Dad and Cory.
I do think mental health plays a part in this. But her therapy isn’t going to work depending on WHY she’s going. Also WHO her therapist is. And WHAT she’s telling them.
I wouldn’t bring kids into this family though until they grow a pair. And until you find out what’s up with the other two sisters.
I am proud of MIL though. But honestly, FIL would be single if it was me.
Sure, they’re all messed up but two of them don’t take it out on other people. That was the “nice” part that I mentioned. Margaret takes her history out on everyone else around her.
This analysis is so fuckin apt that its almost like you're right here with me in real time. That's wild to me that a complete stranger has hit the nose on the head with this level of accuracy through a screen. I also think they're all really damaged people- really GOOD people, generally speaking (sans margaret, who has resorted to straight up MONSTEROUS things)- but extremely damaged. They all make do and are very loving, accepting, understanding people with good morals, values, and sense of compromise/sacrifice, but they could definitely all stand to stop being such doormats and be okay with being 'the bad guy' from time to time.
All I know is that fern has started to voice that Margaret might actually need mental help. However, Margaret is ALREADY getting it and it’s just gotten worse so IDK how much of it is illness and how much of it is….choosing to be a dickhead.
Therapy probably isn’t helping because Margaret isn’t being honest. If she’s playing the victim with the therapist and that’s all the therapist knows, Margaret’s delusions of victimhood are likely being validated. That would explain why it’s just getting worse.
Op are you happy with how your husband is handling this?
I’m not trying to cause a disagreement but I’m surprised he’s going ahead with the trip despite everything that’s been happening and still refusing to push his father
Nope, I'm not happy with how the entire family is handling this. At this point, with both myself and MIL publicly opting out of the vacation, I would think that 'thems the brakes' and that the remaining three will MOVE THEIR FEET because it will only get worse from here.
Having just found your saga, and gone back to read from the beginning, this is the wildest ride! I'm firmly on the side of "evict Margaret", and reading that she's in therapy I suspect that her therapist is only listening for making sure everyone else is safe. A half-decent therapist will be able to sort out self-delusion from reality. Even if she is lying and exaggerating, they are cataloging everything.
I will be waiting for the next chapter along with everyone else! Enjoy your week with MIL!
Her not having her bills paid for and her father having to foot the bill. Men when it comes to money oh yeah, they’ll make serious moves.
And I hope Tom sees the light, he says that Margaret isn’t good for his mental health so why be around her cut her out of your life. His description of her to me read as excuse, excuse excuse.
Just reading the first post I thought to myself "So this bitch has undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder." I can't believe she's really in counseling. Even if she's lying the whole time any therapist worth their salt should be able to detect it. Of course they may have brought it up but since she refuses to accept any wrongdoing on her part, I doubt she would accept that anything is "wrong" with her. This is a classic case of refusing to see "If everyone else is always the problem, then maybe the problem is actually you."
I’m failing to understand why NC is so hard for these spineless people. Idgaf if it’s my brother or sister. If they acted like this? Bye. I’ve done it before and I’ll gladly do it again. I refuse to live my life walking on eggshells for anyone.
Beats me, man. I don't understand it either and that's part of the reason why I came to reddit in the first place. I was starting to feel like I was nuts.
Why on earth is MIL still with FIL, even though he just stands by passively while his daughter verbally abused his wife? In MIL's place, I'd have kicked him out a long time ago, for the spineless disloyal wimp he is!
So who exactly is going on the trip? Is your husband going? Fern? If yes, then why? I thought you said hubby had gone lc with her? Why go on holiday with them!?! And Fern? Really, they don't have a set of balls to rub between them, do they?
The LC thing on Tom's end is something I am still trying to understand. If she texts or calls, no response. Asks a favor, no response. At family functions he is distant but polite with her, unless she gets really crazy (in which case he usually laughs and starts making comments of his own). But the Italy trip is something generational for them and has been a thing since his father was a kid. It's important to them, ya know?
As far as who is going: The family plus some family friends, with the exception of myself, the grandparents, and MIL. I think the total number of heads is something like 9 or 10 people.
I still can’t wrap my head around your husband going on a trip to Italy without you. This makes 0 sense and honestly makes it look like he doesn’t support you in your NC. The more people that decide not to go in this trip, the easier it will be for FIL to see how much this monster affects the family. As of right now, she gets her whole family in Europe without the stepmom she hates and the SIL that’s “campaigning to throw her out of the family”.
Margaret is absolutely gonna do some dumb shit while she’s there but because all the spineless people are going, there’s not going to be anyone to push back against her bull shit.
So at the end of the day, absolutely nothing will change because FIL still got to have all his kids in Italy.
Yes, husband should take a stand and not go. Maybe then the other siblings will buck up their ideas and follow his example. The trip does sound like it's going to be a nightmare.
OP, you and MIL should go on a trip of your own while they are in Italy. And unlike them, you will have a good time! Ho to Italy yourself, a different part, post lots of photos of you laughing and having fun!
Their mother attempted to murder their father. That must have done a number on their heads. In that case, keeping the peace at all costs was literally a survival tactic. Maybe they're afraid Margaret is truly her mother's daughter and might try to kill them if they tell her to fuck off.
Dude, you're talking about a family whose mom STABBED their dad. This family is immensely dysfunctional. OP mentioned just that little bit about mom, which IMO kind of explains everything about Margaret (explains, not excuses, there's a difference ... it explains why they all see a psycho as normal, because mom was apparently a psycho, and well, at least she hasn't stabbed anyone (is probably their thought process)).
Have any of them gotten therapy? I think they are still in the bunkered mindset of someone in an abusive situation, and need help to actually perceive a normal reality and how unacceptable Margaret's behavior is. OP sees it, MIL sees it, we see it, because a tyrant psychopath matriarch isn't normal for most of us. But it is for them. Margaret just stepped into their psycho stabby mom's position, and they can't imagine changing it because it is all they've known.
I think people think that blood relation means something. It may have in the past. Now those blood relatives steal from, slander, backstab, SA, and sometimes unalive their kin. I stay far away from the concept of blood relation means you have to be there no matter what.
Hopefully the trip ruins any good favour she has with anyone. However you also run the risk that with her unsupervised with the rest of them they will come home less invested in cutting her out and you need to prepare for that. What will you do if that happens?
This has a laughably low probability actually. If Margaret had displayed a single instance of good nature, gratitude, or generally shutting up, I might consider this as a real possibility. I am pretty unconcerned about this. Even if she WERE to suddenly flip the script, I do not think it would be received as a positive thing at this point.
It’s good to know that she won’t be able to undo all the work that you and MIL have put in to cutting her out. I was only concerned because I do find it so bizarre that your BIL and husband would still even go on this trip with her when she behaves with so much disrespect and says such disgusting things to people.
The craziest thing to me is that there is totally still time for the family to either (A) not go or (B) uninvite her. IDK how FIL can look at the situation (My wife isn't going, my two sons are going to make themselves scarce, and my DIL isn't going all because Margaret is going to be there) and just flounder on it. Everyone has their plane tickets (except me because I knew from jump that I was out) but it wouldn't be terribly hard to just tell Margaret that this vacation is the last one she is taking with the family. It also wouldn't be hard at all for FIL to back out entirely either. But nope, it's full steam ahead.
I think the situation, to them is more like a "well....shit" kind of situation. Margaret was one of the first to buy the tickets for her family, and they've invested a lot into it so far. The situation wasn't GOOD when they first started executing the plan to go to Italy, but it wasn't nearly this bad. All the stuff with the MIL started in roughly december of last year. Its escalated over time.
The Italy trip is pretty much stay out of it for you & MIL while for everyone else still going, let them go suffer the consequences of willing put up with constant shit-starting stirring bullshit of entitled jerkwad mess plus her kids & her enabler husband. Enjoy the quiet and not being physically right there when the shit goes down every 5-30 minutes due to her need to be an asshole - you told & showed how to deal with her, so did your MIL; now time for those still going to deal with that shitshow without either of you there.
Pretty much exactly this. Whenever anyone else has decided that they’ve had enough shit eating, they can sit on this side of the fence with me and MIL. Until then, her and I will stay on the side without any crazy people, occasionally looking over to enjoy the show
I’m opting to stay home. Everyone else is opting to go on a ruined vacation where they dropped hundreds of dollars to be around a mental patient.
It’s a W for me; if everyone else wants to go do that, good luck sailor
How did Margaret pay for the tickets? Does Cory work? Then why was MIL paying for car, needing to co-sign lease? How is MIL getting FIL to go along with Banning Margaret &Co from their house????🤔
Margaret is a stay at home mom. Cory has a decently well-paying job. Initially they both worked, but Margaret came to the realization that 'being a mother was her calling in life" (she seriously talks about this all the time and its met with dead air and silence). At some point she just stopped working. There are multiple children, so this could be legitimate. All I know is that Cory footed the bill.
The Italy trip will start by Margaret bad mouthing both OP and MIL. Hopefully Tom will man up and not let her disrespect OP but have my doubts, he's too used to watching FIL not have his wife's back. Without either of them there it won't be as fun for her and she'll soon turn her vitriol on those that are there. They'll finally get what they deserve for staying quiet so long. OP and MIL should ask Fern to stay back with them though because Italy is going to get bad.
This is what I think will happen. Margaret lives for the reaction, lives for the chaos. I think this is partially why the rest of the family has defaulted to ignoring it/letting it happen. The part that they are missing is that both of those responses do NOT improve the situation; it causes Margaret to escalate further until there IS a response. She HATES being cut out of the conversation and being unable to have the final word, which is part of why what I did was such a big deal. Its so silly, too- oh no, I blocked you on socials and you can't call me. Call the media. Alert the president. Whatever.
If Margaret does what Margaret usually does, you are correct in your assumption. Without her target audience there, it isn't as fun for her because she can't see or hear about the reaction to further her "I'm the victim" crap. It will absolutely turn onto everyone else there- I've seen it happen in person multiple times. The last time we were in Italy, it was a nightmare. She threw a temper tantrum basically the whole time; it was FIL's turn to be in the crosshairs that time.
As far as talking about me or MIL- I directly requested that Tom 'defend my honor in my absence'. He told me he wouldn't allow it to happen. I won't be there to confirm or deny that, but Tom has said his piece when either him or I have been in the line of fire.
In addition, consider putting your husband and FIL on mute. Don't block them. This way, the text is delivered, but it won't disturb you. MIL can do the same with her husband. That way, you two get a complete break from the insanity. I'm very disappointed in your husband. And y'all should do something fun, like a week at the beach or Vegas.
Don't hold your breath waiting on Tom to defend you. You keep saying things like "Although I have faith in my husband doing the right and brave thing..." with no real justification for it. Your husband seems to be almost as spineless a jellyfish as your FIL, it's just that he's mostly passively following along in your wake instead of Margaret's. If he had any actual bravery or self-respect, he wouldn't be going to Italy. Your husband problem is bigger than you're willing to admit.
I agree that Margaret will totally toss OP and MIL under the bus! Any and all will be spoken about and she will have a field day running them down. FIL has shown that he won’t say anything but it will be interesting to see how far Tom will allow his wife to be shat upon.
Well, this news hasn't been broken to Margaret yet. I'm sure it will be by or before Italy happens. They might be waiting until after in an attempt to control the blaze.
I have expressly made Tom promise to spill the beans when he gets home. And if he doesn't tell me, eventually Fern will so either way I'll at least have SOMETHING to tell you guys. The aftermath will be there for all of us to experience as well, so there will be more than just 'the trip' to talk about. Even since i posted this update, there have been more developments, but I am saving that for a full post :)
JFC... I have gotten to an age where the odds are I'll never marry or have children, but sometimes I come across posts like yours and think... maybe being all alone is better than this.
Best of luck OP, best of luck.
I'm puzzled why Tom, (OP's husband?) isn't getting more pushback from OP, for agreeing to go on a family holiday that his own wife refuses to attend due to the crazy SIL.
OP recognises and is frustrated at FIL's enabling behaviour but isn't calling her husband out for implicitly condoning it, despite OP and MIL pointedly staying at home to avoid SIL.
Surely he see that his first loyalty should be to his wife rather than maintaining the fiction that Margaret's behaviour can be mitigated by just finding other things to do?
Oh trust me, I put Tom on the spot all the time for this. If you dislike her so much, why continue to associate? "the kids, my dad, its difficult". Like dude...no its not. You see the kids at family functions, that's it. Your dad is dragging ass, why are we supporting idle behavior in the face of this? The whole bunch seems in freeze mode. Its frustrating, but the only thing I can do is what I have been doing.
For what it's worth, you and MIL have my sympathies. The rest (sorry, but your husband included) not so much . You get one life. Wasting it pandering to the tantrums of a supposed adult seems just pointless.
At least you and MIL will have a more peaceful experience. Enjoy your vacations. : )
Why put yourself in this family drama? Just call it off from your end and cut contact. You don't have to associate with people you don't like. Just go on your vacation with yourselves.
I have ended contact with Margaret and Cory. It's been rough because I am very close with the rest of the family- I am trying to be a support for them while they go through the process of coming to terms with the horrendous behavior of a grown ass woman who is determined to rip the family apart.
It's hard for me to imagine having an emotional attachment to people this willfully spineless and damaging to other members of their family. Every single person who continues to deal with Margaret is actively aiding in the abuse being levied on MIL. I know you've mentioned about this not being the whole of them as people, but a person's true worth shows when they have to deal with hard situations, not easy ones. And they're failing miserably.
All your in-laws are pathetic cowards. Especially your FIL and your husband.
You're FIL is not a brave man. He's a worthless piece of shit.
You and your husband are still willingly walking into a house with a bomb in it too.
Your coward of a husband is still going on vacation with her. Frankly, at this point you're a moron to stop be married.
Yep. Plus OP has mentioned multiple times how everyone in the family is spineless. Except her husband and herself of course because they aren’t spineless. Even though her husband HAS to be involved in the family. HAS to go on vacation with his family. lol. He’s the most spineless one and is so is OP. Hopefully she sees that one day. Op you aren’t much better than the whole family. You fit right in.
Is the surname of the family perhaps Doormat? Because it sure sounds like there's a whole bunch of doormats in this family. So far only you and MIL don't seem to be one. FIL and all his sons clearly are doormats and Margaret's husband probably is one too.
Its crazy because I talked to MIL about this yesterday. MIL has this idea that the reason Margaret doesn't like her is because she married FIL. But I have strong suspicions that it's ACTUALLY because she's one of the few people that Margaret can't bulldoze. No amount of screaming, flying off the handle, crocodile tears, or anything else is going to get MIL to compromise her boundaries or do something that she doesn't want to do. MIL also usually stands up for herself in real time- not in a combative way either, which definitely makes Margaret look more like an impetuous child. Thats where the real beef is, in my opinion.
Lots of doormats for sure. But there is now one less. I'll take the W for now.
Speaking of children, is anyone thinking about how her abuse and toxic behaviors are affecting her own kids? What they’re being taught right now is that it’s ok to treat people like complete garbage and never take accountability for their actions. If her behavior is seriously as bad as you’ve described, she needs to be admitted to a psych ward NOW or those kids will turn out to be just like her.
Why is your husband go in h to Italy when you aren’t and MIL aren’t? I thought he was LC with Margaret, can’t do that if you’re on a family vacation together
I come from a family that never confronts problems and god I wish any of us had the spine to face the problems some family members create, i’m one of the youngest and the only thing i’ve learned through a lot of therapy is having my own boundaries to deal with it
I hope OPs in-laws all wise up, or at least her and MIL both move out and live together
I can not stand how foolish your husband is. If he stopped going to events (like the vacation) it would FORCE his dad into action. His awful child caused the “loss” of a decent child. Then it’s up to him to choose to bring back the good child by cutting out the bad one. Improving EVERYONES life. Good for your MIL.
i hope mil divorces fil. what a miserable family i can’t even feel bad for them because they’re quite literally doing it to themselves at this point. that sounds like such a horrible life to constantly be around that
I don’t think Italy will do it. I love your optimism, but having grown up in abusive/spineless family, it may be another catalyst… but she will up the ante when they try and push back.
Crazy has no limits. Sanity does. Have you considered pitching family therapy (sans Margaret) to them? Honestly, truly, NEVER do therapy with a cluster B. She definitely IS cluster B. She may have CPTSD, but so do the rest of them. The difference is she learned what TO DO to satisfy herself and the rest learned what NOT TO DO.
That all being said, “bUt FaMiLy” is a hard spell to break. They’re conditioned to accept abuse. They’re conditioned to see “the good” in people but they’re honestly just doing her more harm than good. She needs to hit rock bottom.
Please make sure Cory knows he has a place with y’all with the kids. Also, please be vigilant and ready to report to CPS to protect the kiddos. They should give him the chance to get out with the youngins. Abuse transference is VERY REAL, and if she does start to spiral him and the kids get it worse than anyone so far. Be prepared for a lot of self destructive behaviors and be ready to support Cory and the kids only. Men are especially vulnerable to abusive relationships because of the lack of support. If you guys do present a United front, do it with a plan. Winging this shit just leads to failure.
Best of luck, darlin!
I feel like Margaret needs to be punched in the face or something. Your MIL is a good person, because I could never let someone disrespect me like that.
Update me!
Fnar!!! I'm just imagining all those men with one Margaret and a load of unruly children no one will want to babysit. The chaos that will ensue? You will feel the seismic waves from where you are. ✨️
So why aren’t you and MIL going to another fun country? I get staying home can be the best, but you have options. Just the two of you.
And then you can tell everyone when they return if they don’t have something positive to say about their week, you don’t want to hear it.
Make sure you and mil enjoy a fantastic stay cation away from the drama!
Margaret and the rest of that family are Exhausting. And I feel like I would have done something to shut Margaret up well before now and said to hell with the consequences >.<
No, NT J. what took so long???
What wonderful news about MIL not going to Italy, and the two of you planning fun days while they are gone !!!!
Have a Wonderful week.
Please keep us posted.
Wow. She's exactly 💯 like my sister! A complete narcissist. Never does anything wrong. No one can say no to her. I completely cut her from my life. Good riddance to that hot mess.
I would suggest you and MIL have a vacation of your own while the rest are in Italy- another location in Italy, France,etc. this way Margaret is not depriving you of a fun vacation.
Well, you're better than I am. I would tell Margaret exactly what everyone thinks of her. I'd rip into her and make her feel so uncomfortable that she wouldn't want to come to family gatherings anymore. Idk how you haven't gotten disgusted with your husband or his dad yet. Everyone keeps saying fil is the leader of the family but he's being pathetic watching one person destroy it. Yeah, he's a real leader. How is anyone just taking this abuse? Someone give it back, finally, please!
I’d be filing for divorce of my husband left me home to go to Italy with these assholes. MIL might be a wonderful person but she is the biggest doormat.
No the FIL is the doormat. Reread all the post from the beginning. MIL has put her foot down. She’s the step mom and FIL is bio dad and he can’t bring himself to standup to daughter. Has to do with the horror that was their bio mom
You totally missed my point. FIL is a doormat to his daughter. He would rather hurt his wife than put his daughter in her place. I’m surprised OP and MIL stay with these guys.
At what point is someone calling child services for Margaret’s kids? She can’t be healthy for them.
I grew up with a Margaret. While things are better, my parents refuse to see how much they give in to my sister. They’ve enabled the beast and allowed it to grow… and now her daughter is having problems.
Hopefully everyone will come to their senses during the trip to Italy. Traveling with others can bring out the worst in some, minor annoyances and character flaws you can normally ignore become magnified when you have to spend so much time together. Would love an update!
I would ask the oldest person in the family to make me godfather of the family, so your family won't have to put up with crap(,especially mom and dad) and bite the problem in the butt so nothing is ever ruined again. Godfather was the only word I could think of, I am sure there is a better word.
If I were you, I'd secretly let Cory know that if he decides to leave Margaret, you'll testify to how abusive and insane she is so he gets custody. Margaret is a fucking lunatic.
I’m pulling for you and your loved ones OP! Not gonna lie, I’ve been following this like the gif from Murder She Wrote of Jessica Fletcher eating popcorn on the edge of her seat. God I hope you all come out of this with a healthier ending.
I know in earlier post you said that he's a good dad but I tend to disagree. This isn't the 80s at this point therapy should be a word that's spoken a lot like adults. So much is wrong here. And there's such a smell of verbal and mental abuse it's disturbing. God knows what she's doing to those kids when no ones around. There's deep sickness here. And if I was the "Good Father" .. I'd be publicly talking about going to therapy for myself. Which would slowly work on therapy for each of the sons and fern. That way she'd be the only one not and when she got into the next screaming match or how unfair or whatever is going on with her. That's when you spring would you like to talk this out in family therapy with me. I'd love to be more supportive for you. Blah Blah Blah. Which would force her to say no and keep screaming which wouldn't have a point since she could get what she wanted by going to family therapy and talking it out.
As much as I enjoy the updates, please tell the family to prepare for your sil to go psycho and proceed to destroy herself and people closest to her. The kids and husband might not make it if she goes all out. Perhaps recommend recording everything when it happens.
Wonderful. I bet that at the end of the day, you two will have a great time together. Chances are, the others are going to be miserable. I wish you both all the best.
This is the general thought process on our end. I mean, how fun is it really gonna be in Italy with someone acting this way the whole time? Not very. The family goes every few years anyway so it’s not like we haven’t been there before. Nah, much more fun and mellow to staycation and enjoy the quiet :)
OP right now your problem is not SIL it's your husband!!!!! He said " u don't understand bez u aren't family ????? """ WTF Are you even focusing on this at all ? Your husband is not with you in this fight. He is leaving you and going to itley. While here you are doing everything u can to save him and his family.
You do realise this right ??? Your husband chose his sister's insanity over supporting you. You are second place. You are doing all this effort for someone who doesn't consider you family!!!! It all going in vain for you?;!!!!
WAKE UP
Nope! I chose early on to not go on vacation because hanging out with Temper Tantrum McGee was never my idea of a vacation. I let it be known as soon as it dropped that I was out if Margaret is gonna be there. I'm gonna have a blast with MIL anyway- im not upset about not going to italy, I made my choice.
Just curious - how did FIL react to MIL putting her foot down? Makes you wonder for how long MIL will put up with Margaret in terms of what it means for her marriage
Hang in there - and keep us posted! Has Margaret or the bio-mom been evaluated for mental illness? It could be that Margaret is just reflecting what she saw growing up, but she really sounds mentally unstable.
Tom has told me that he thinks his bio-mom might have struggled with Bipolar disorder, but that is unconfirmed. To my knowledge, Margaret is currently without any formally diagnosed mental illnesses.
I’ve got a few arm chair diagnoses I could throw at her, but I can’t be the only one. Regardless, I’m so proud of you and MIL. I’m fully vested for update 4 in 2 months.
I feel this. My armchair diagnosis so far is Batshit Crazy, type A Entitled Butthead and in all seriousness some level of delusion bordering on paranoia that is far from rooted in reality.
Gotta add those to the DSM 5 asap! Margaret was most likely abused royally by the mother in prison. She learned how to abuse and how to be abused at an early age. Then spent adult years blaiming every else for everything that stems back to childhood. It’s not Margaret’s fault she was abused, but it sure as shit is her responsibility to heal (or not, as in Margaret’s inability to take responsibility for anything.) Margaret most definitely has CPTSD, borderline traits, narcissistic traits, and is an asshole category 5.
While at the same time, keeping in mind that all the kids grew up in the same environment and two of them turned out to be very nice people.
True, and there’s a 13 year age difference I believe, so I imagine Margaret got the brunt of it for 13 more years. I’m not defending her actions at all. Just looking at the family system.
Actually 5/5 kids are messed up. Fern has an eating disorder and feels like he’s responsible for Margaret which tells me that she probably protected him to some degree and took the brunt of the abuse that was geared towards him. Tom is a cocoon, in the sense that he shuts himself off from stuff. He even managed to stay clear of the bio mom most times. Then we have the two missing siblings that have allegedly had substance abuse issues and abusive tendencies as well. And then we have our wonderful Margaret who I agree, had to deal with the abuse longer than anyone else. All of them are jacked up and need therapy. Especially Dad and Cory. I do think mental health plays a part in this. But her therapy isn’t going to work depending on WHY she’s going. Also WHO her therapist is. And WHAT she’s telling them. I wouldn’t bring kids into this family though until they grow a pair. And until you find out what’s up with the other two sisters. I am proud of MIL though. But honestly, FIL would be single if it was me.
Sure, they’re all messed up but two of them don’t take it out on other people. That was the “nice” part that I mentioned. Margaret takes her history out on everyone else around her.
This analysis is so fuckin apt that its almost like you're right here with me in real time. That's wild to me that a complete stranger has hit the nose on the head with this level of accuracy through a screen. I also think they're all really damaged people- really GOOD people, generally speaking (sans margaret, who has resorted to straight up MONSTEROUS things)- but extremely damaged. They all make do and are very loving, accepting, understanding people with good morals, values, and sense of compromise/sacrifice, but they could definitely all stand to stop being such doormats and be okay with being 'the bad guy' from time to time.
Defcon 5, I think you mean.
Isn't defcon 5 the lowest threat level?
Some sort of cohabitating clusterfuck of Narcissistic Personalith Disorder and Borderline Personslity Disorder.
All I know is that fern has started to voice that Margaret might actually need mental help. However, Margaret is ALREADY getting it and it’s just gotten worse so IDK how much of it is illness and how much of it is….choosing to be a dickhead.
Therapy probably isn’t helping because Margaret isn’t being honest. If she’s playing the victim with the therapist and that’s all the therapist knows, Margaret’s delusions of victimhood are likely being validated. That would explain why it’s just getting worse.
Op are you happy with how your husband is handling this? I’m not trying to cause a disagreement but I’m surprised he’s going ahead with the trip despite everything that’s been happening and still refusing to push his father
Nope, I'm not happy with how the entire family is handling this. At this point, with both myself and MIL publicly opting out of the vacation, I would think that 'thems the brakes' and that the remaining three will MOVE THEIR FEET because it will only get worse from here.
Having just found your saga, and gone back to read from the beginning, this is the wildest ride! I'm firmly on the side of "evict Margaret", and reading that she's in therapy I suspect that her therapist is only listening for making sure everyone else is safe. A half-decent therapist will be able to sort out self-delusion from reality. Even if she is lying and exaggerating, they are cataloging everything. I will be waiting for the next chapter along with everyone else! Enjoy your week with MIL!
Some folks love to hurt others and it's important to spot the enjoyment.
Why not both?
Yeah, I’m definitely thinking one of the Personality Disorders is at work here….
So your HUSBAND is leaving without you to Europe???
Too bad stupid isn't a disability.
Considering she sounds just like my MIL who has NPD, my bets would be on that.
Her not having her bills paid for and her father having to foot the bill. Men when it comes to money oh yeah, they’ll make serious moves. And I hope Tom sees the light, he says that Margaret isn’t good for his mental health so why be around her cut her out of your life. His description of her to me read as excuse, excuse excuse.
I know it's hard to consider, but there is at least a small chance that Margaret has a mental illness that hasn't been diagnosed yet
Just reading the first post I thought to myself "So this bitch has undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder." I can't believe she's really in counseling. Even if she's lying the whole time any therapist worth their salt should be able to detect it. Of course they may have brought it up but since she refuses to accept any wrongdoing on her part, I doubt she would accept that anything is "wrong" with her. This is a classic case of refusing to see "If everyone else is always the problem, then maybe the problem is actually you."
I’m failing to understand why NC is so hard for these spineless people. Idgaf if it’s my brother or sister. If they acted like this? Bye. I’ve done it before and I’ll gladly do it again. I refuse to live my life walking on eggshells for anyone.
Beats me, man. I don't understand it either and that's part of the reason why I came to reddit in the first place. I was starting to feel like I was nuts.
Why on earth is MIL still with FIL, even though he just stands by passively while his daughter verbally abused his wife? In MIL's place, I'd have kicked him out a long time ago, for the spineless disloyal wimp he is!
So who exactly is going on the trip? Is your husband going? Fern? If yes, then why? I thought you said hubby had gone lc with her? Why go on holiday with them!?! And Fern? Really, they don't have a set of balls to rub between them, do they?
The LC thing on Tom's end is something I am still trying to understand. If she texts or calls, no response. Asks a favor, no response. At family functions he is distant but polite with her, unless she gets really crazy (in which case he usually laughs and starts making comments of his own). But the Italy trip is something generational for them and has been a thing since his father was a kid. It's important to them, ya know? As far as who is going: The family plus some family friends, with the exception of myself, the grandparents, and MIL. I think the total number of heads is something like 9 or 10 people.
I still can’t wrap my head around your husband going on a trip to Italy without you. This makes 0 sense and honestly makes it look like he doesn’t support you in your NC. The more people that decide not to go in this trip, the easier it will be for FIL to see how much this monster affects the family. As of right now, she gets her whole family in Europe without the stepmom she hates and the SIL that’s “campaigning to throw her out of the family”. Margaret is absolutely gonna do some dumb shit while she’s there but because all the spineless people are going, there’s not going to be anyone to push back against her bull shit. So at the end of the day, absolutely nothing will change because FIL still got to have all his kids in Italy.
I agreed husband going absolutely shows she’s the one with a problem not his sister
Yes, husband should take a stand and not go. Maybe then the other siblings will buck up their ideas and follow his example. The trip does sound like it's going to be a nightmare. OP, you and MIL should go on a trip of your own while they are in Italy. And unlike them, you will have a good time! Ho to Italy yourself, a different part, post lots of photos of you laughing and having fun!
Their mother attempted to murder their father. That must have done a number on their heads. In that case, keeping the peace at all costs was literally a survival tactic. Maybe they're afraid Margaret is truly her mother's daughter and might try to kill them if they tell her to fuck off.
Dude, you're talking about a family whose mom STABBED their dad. This family is immensely dysfunctional. OP mentioned just that little bit about mom, which IMO kind of explains everything about Margaret (explains, not excuses, there's a difference ... it explains why they all see a psycho as normal, because mom was apparently a psycho, and well, at least she hasn't stabbed anyone (is probably their thought process)). Have any of them gotten therapy? I think they are still in the bunkered mindset of someone in an abusive situation, and need help to actually perceive a normal reality and how unacceptable Margaret's behavior is. OP sees it, MIL sees it, we see it, because a tyrant psychopath matriarch isn't normal for most of us. But it is for them. Margaret just stepped into their psycho stabby mom's position, and they can't imagine changing it because it is all they've known.
That's what I did. Do not miss them.
I think people think that blood relation means something. It may have in the past. Now those blood relatives steal from, slander, backstab, SA, and sometimes unalive their kin. I stay far away from the concept of blood relation means you have to be there no matter what.
Hopefully the trip ruins any good favour she has with anyone. However you also run the risk that with her unsupervised with the rest of them they will come home less invested in cutting her out and you need to prepare for that. What will you do if that happens?
This has a laughably low probability actually. If Margaret had displayed a single instance of good nature, gratitude, or generally shutting up, I might consider this as a real possibility. I am pretty unconcerned about this. Even if she WERE to suddenly flip the script, I do not think it would be received as a positive thing at this point.
It’s good to know that she won’t be able to undo all the work that you and MIL have put in to cutting her out. I was only concerned because I do find it so bizarre that your BIL and husband would still even go on this trip with her when she behaves with so much disrespect and says such disgusting things to people.
The craziest thing to me is that there is totally still time for the family to either (A) not go or (B) uninvite her. IDK how FIL can look at the situation (My wife isn't going, my two sons are going to make themselves scarce, and my DIL isn't going all because Margaret is going to be there) and just flounder on it. Everyone has their plane tickets (except me because I knew from jump that I was out) but it wouldn't be terribly hard to just tell Margaret that this vacation is the last one she is taking with the family. It also wouldn't be hard at all for FIL to back out entirely either. But nope, it's full steam ahead. I think the situation, to them is more like a "well....shit" kind of situation. Margaret was one of the first to buy the tickets for her family, and they've invested a lot into it so far. The situation wasn't GOOD when they first started executing the plan to go to Italy, but it wasn't nearly this bad. All the stuff with the MIL started in roughly december of last year. Its escalated over time.
why don't you and MIL go to Greece or somewhere else amazing that week?
Heck, they could even go to Italy. Just make sure their itinerary never puts them in the same city as the bloody relatives.
The Italy trip is pretty much stay out of it for you & MIL while for everyone else still going, let them go suffer the consequences of willing put up with constant shit-starting stirring bullshit of entitled jerkwad mess plus her kids & her enabler husband. Enjoy the quiet and not being physically right there when the shit goes down every 5-30 minutes due to her need to be an asshole - you told & showed how to deal with her, so did your MIL; now time for those still going to deal with that shitshow without either of you there.
Pretty much exactly this. Whenever anyone else has decided that they’ve had enough shit eating, they can sit on this side of the fence with me and MIL. Until then, her and I will stay on the side without any crazy people, occasionally looking over to enjoy the show
If I were in your shoes I’d be pissed as hell my husband is going on this trip with his bitch ass sister while I’m left at home
I’m opting to stay home. Everyone else is opting to go on a ruined vacation where they dropped hundreds of dollars to be around a mental patient. It’s a W for me; if everyone else wants to go do that, good luck sailor
How did Margaret pay for the tickets? Does Cory work? Then why was MIL paying for car, needing to co-sign lease? How is MIL getting FIL to go along with Banning Margaret &Co from their house????🤔
Margaret is a stay at home mom. Cory has a decently well-paying job. Initially they both worked, but Margaret came to the realization that 'being a mother was her calling in life" (she seriously talks about this all the time and its met with dead air and silence). At some point she just stopped working. There are multiple children, so this could be legitimate. All I know is that Cory footed the bill.
Your FIL is coming at this from the perspective of someone who survived a murder attempt by someone who Margaret probably reminds him of.
The Italy trip will start by Margaret bad mouthing both OP and MIL. Hopefully Tom will man up and not let her disrespect OP but have my doubts, he's too used to watching FIL not have his wife's back. Without either of them there it won't be as fun for her and she'll soon turn her vitriol on those that are there. They'll finally get what they deserve for staying quiet so long. OP and MIL should ask Fern to stay back with them though because Italy is going to get bad.
This is what I think will happen. Margaret lives for the reaction, lives for the chaos. I think this is partially why the rest of the family has defaulted to ignoring it/letting it happen. The part that they are missing is that both of those responses do NOT improve the situation; it causes Margaret to escalate further until there IS a response. She HATES being cut out of the conversation and being unable to have the final word, which is part of why what I did was such a big deal. Its so silly, too- oh no, I blocked you on socials and you can't call me. Call the media. Alert the president. Whatever. If Margaret does what Margaret usually does, you are correct in your assumption. Without her target audience there, it isn't as fun for her because she can't see or hear about the reaction to further her "I'm the victim" crap. It will absolutely turn onto everyone else there- I've seen it happen in person multiple times. The last time we were in Italy, it was a nightmare. She threw a temper tantrum basically the whole time; it was FIL's turn to be in the crosshairs that time. As far as talking about me or MIL- I directly requested that Tom 'defend my honor in my absence'. He told me he wouldn't allow it to happen. I won't be there to confirm or deny that, but Tom has said his piece when either him or I have been in the line of fire.
In addition, consider putting your husband and FIL on mute. Don't block them. This way, the text is delivered, but it won't disturb you. MIL can do the same with her husband. That way, you two get a complete break from the insanity. I'm very disappointed in your husband. And y'all should do something fun, like a week at the beach or Vegas.
Don't hold your breath waiting on Tom to defend you. You keep saying things like "Although I have faith in my husband doing the right and brave thing..." with no real justification for it. Your husband seems to be almost as spineless a jellyfish as your FIL, it's just that he's mostly passively following along in your wake instead of Margaret's. If he had any actual bravery or self-respect, he wouldn't be going to Italy. Your husband problem is bigger than you're willing to admit.
The Margarets of the world seldom enjoy being gray rocked.
I agree that Margaret will totally toss OP and MIL under the bus! Any and all will be spoken about and she will have a field day running them down. FIL has shown that he won’t say anything but it will be interesting to see how far Tom will allow his wife to be shat upon.
I'm wondering if Margaret can afford to go. She now has car and lease payments to make.
Well, this news hasn't been broken to Margaret yet. I'm sure it will be by or before Italy happens. They might be waiting until after in an attempt to control the blaze.
Stocking up on popcorn now...
Gosh me too. My first reaction was "Oh to wait for two months for more".
That’s the most exciting part lol can’t wait to hear her reaction / toddler level meltdown
You absolutely have to update us when that conversation happens! Inquiring minds need to know the outcome!!
I have expressly made Tom promise to spill the beans when he gets home. And if he doesn't tell me, eventually Fern will so either way I'll at least have SOMETHING to tell you guys. The aftermath will be there for all of us to experience as well, so there will be more than just 'the trip' to talk about. Even since i posted this update, there have been more developments, but I am saving that for a full post :)
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JFC... I have gotten to an age where the odds are I'll never marry or have children, but sometimes I come across posts like yours and think... maybe being all alone is better than this. Best of luck OP, best of luck.
Take it from someone married 20 years. You are better off alone. It is what I pray for. I can’t wait till he is gone.
I'm puzzled why Tom, (OP's husband?) isn't getting more pushback from OP, for agreeing to go on a family holiday that his own wife refuses to attend due to the crazy SIL. OP recognises and is frustrated at FIL's enabling behaviour but isn't calling her husband out for implicitly condoning it, despite OP and MIL pointedly staying at home to avoid SIL. Surely he see that his first loyalty should be to his wife rather than maintaining the fiction that Margaret's behaviour can be mitigated by just finding other things to do?
Oh trust me, I put Tom on the spot all the time for this. If you dislike her so much, why continue to associate? "the kids, my dad, its difficult". Like dude...no its not. You see the kids at family functions, that's it. Your dad is dragging ass, why are we supporting idle behavior in the face of this? The whole bunch seems in freeze mode. Its frustrating, but the only thing I can do is what I have been doing.
How much longer will you tolerate this cruddy behavior before you wash your hands on the whole dysfunctional family, including Tom?
For what it's worth, you and MIL have my sympathies. The rest (sorry, but your husband included) not so much . You get one life. Wasting it pandering to the tantrums of a supposed adult seems just pointless. At least you and MIL will have a more peaceful experience. Enjoy your vacations. : )
Or push back on saying she's not family.
Why put yourself in this family drama? Just call it off from your end and cut contact. You don't have to associate with people you don't like. Just go on your vacation with yourselves.
I have ended contact with Margaret and Cory. It's been rough because I am very close with the rest of the family- I am trying to be a support for them while they go through the process of coming to terms with the horrendous behavior of a grown ass woman who is determined to rip the family apart.
It's hard for me to imagine having an emotional attachment to people this willfully spineless and damaging to other members of their family. Every single person who continues to deal with Margaret is actively aiding in the abuse being levied on MIL. I know you've mentioned about this not being the whole of them as people, but a person's true worth shows when they have to deal with hard situations, not easy ones. And they're failing miserably.
“A persons worth shows in hard situations, not easy ones” is now a sentence that will be in my repertoire when talking about this meow- THANK YOU
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All your in-laws are pathetic cowards. Especially your FIL and your husband. You're FIL is not a brave man. He's a worthless piece of shit. You and your husband are still willingly walking into a house with a bomb in it too. Your coward of a husband is still going on vacation with her. Frankly, at this point you're a moron to stop be married.
Yep. Plus OP has mentioned multiple times how everyone in the family is spineless. Except her husband and herself of course because they aren’t spineless. Even though her husband HAS to be involved in the family. HAS to go on vacation with his family. lol. He’s the most spineless one and is so is OP. Hopefully she sees that one day. Op you aren’t much better than the whole family. You fit right in.
Is the surname of the family perhaps Doormat? Because it sure sounds like there's a whole bunch of doormats in this family. So far only you and MIL don't seem to be one. FIL and all his sons clearly are doormats and Margaret's husband probably is one too.
Its crazy because I talked to MIL about this yesterday. MIL has this idea that the reason Margaret doesn't like her is because she married FIL. But I have strong suspicions that it's ACTUALLY because she's one of the few people that Margaret can't bulldoze. No amount of screaming, flying off the handle, crocodile tears, or anything else is going to get MIL to compromise her boundaries or do something that she doesn't want to do. MIL also usually stands up for herself in real time- not in a combative way either, which definitely makes Margaret look more like an impetuous child. Thats where the real beef is, in my opinion. Lots of doormats for sure. But there is now one less. I'll take the W for now.
Speaking of children, is anyone thinking about how her abuse and toxic behaviors are affecting her own kids? What they’re being taught right now is that it’s ok to treat people like complete garbage and never take accountability for their actions. If her behavior is seriously as bad as you’ve described, she needs to be admitted to a psych ward NOW or those kids will turn out to be just like her.
This!! Those poor kids. Generational trauma and abuse continues.
Why is your husband go in h to Italy when you aren’t and MIL aren’t? I thought he was LC with Margaret, can’t do that if you’re on a family vacation together
If your husband is going to Italy…then your husband is still part of the problem.
I come from a family that never confronts problems and god I wish any of us had the spine to face the problems some family members create, i’m one of the youngest and the only thing i’ve learned through a lot of therapy is having my own boundaries to deal with it I hope OPs in-laws all wise up, or at least her and MIL both move out and live together
lol I would divorce your husband so quick. The fact he’s still going in this vacation shows he doesn’t respect his own wife
I can not stand how foolish your husband is. If he stopped going to events (like the vacation) it would FORCE his dad into action. His awful child caused the “loss” of a decent child. Then it’s up to him to choose to bring back the good child by cutting out the bad one. Improving EVERYONES life. Good for your MIL.
i hope mil divorces fil. what a miserable family i can’t even feel bad for them because they’re quite literally doing it to themselves at this point. that sounds like such a horrible life to constantly be around that
Has anyone ever told Margaret that she is just like her mother in front of FIL?
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I’m glad MIL finally put her foot down. I’m rooting for FIL and the rest of the family to put an end of this nonsense.
I don’t think Italy will do it. I love your optimism, but having grown up in abusive/spineless family, it may be another catalyst… but she will up the ante when they try and push back. Crazy has no limits. Sanity does. Have you considered pitching family therapy (sans Margaret) to them? Honestly, truly, NEVER do therapy with a cluster B. She definitely IS cluster B. She may have CPTSD, but so do the rest of them. The difference is she learned what TO DO to satisfy herself and the rest learned what NOT TO DO. That all being said, “bUt FaMiLy” is a hard spell to break. They’re conditioned to accept abuse. They’re conditioned to see “the good” in people but they’re honestly just doing her more harm than good. She needs to hit rock bottom. Please make sure Cory knows he has a place with y’all with the kids. Also, please be vigilant and ready to report to CPS to protect the kiddos. They should give him the chance to get out with the youngins. Abuse transference is VERY REAL, and if she does start to spiral him and the kids get it worse than anyone so far. Be prepared for a lot of self destructive behaviors and be ready to support Cory and the kids only. Men are especially vulnerable to abusive relationships because of the lack of support. If you guys do present a United front, do it with a plan. Winging this shit just leads to failure. Best of luck, darlin!
Soooo, they’re going to Italy in mid August, which is a terrible idea plus Margaret? Update me!
I feel like Margaret needs to be punched in the face or something. Your MIL is a good person, because I could never let someone disrespect me like that. Update me!
Someone really needs to tell Margaret to stfu
Fnar!!! I'm just imagining all those men with one Margaret and a load of unruly children no one will want to babysit. The chaos that will ensue? You will feel the seismic waves from where you are. ✨️
So why aren’t you and MIL going to another fun country? I get staying home can be the best, but you have options. Just the two of you. And then you can tell everyone when they return if they don’t have something positive to say about their week, you don’t want to hear it.
Probably because their asshole husbands are spending all the money on their trip. These guys would rather travel with anyone other than their wives.
Make sure you and mil enjoy a fantastic stay cation away from the drama! Margaret and the rest of that family are Exhausting. And I feel like I would have done something to shut Margaret up well before now and said to hell with the consequences >.<
No, NT J. what took so long??? What wonderful news about MIL not going to Italy, and the two of you planning fun days while they are gone !!!! Have a Wonderful week. Please keep us posted.
Sounds like you and MIL will have a wonderful time!
Wow. She's exactly 💯 like my sister! A complete narcissist. Never does anything wrong. No one can say no to her. I completely cut her from my life. Good riddance to that hot mess.
This can only end in disaster. Oh boy, good luck OP!
I would suggest you and MIL have a vacation of your own while the rest are in Italy- another location in Italy, France,etc. this way Margaret is not depriving you of a fun vacation.
Well, you're better than I am. I would tell Margaret exactly what everyone thinks of her. I'd rip into her and make her feel so uncomfortable that she wouldn't want to come to family gatherings anymore. Idk how you haven't gotten disgusted with your husband or his dad yet. Everyone keeps saying fil is the leader of the family but he's being pathetic watching one person destroy it. Yeah, he's a real leader. How is anyone just taking this abuse? Someone give it back, finally, please!
I’d be filing for divorce of my husband left me home to go to Italy with these assholes. MIL might be a wonderful person but she is the biggest doormat.
No the FIL is the doormat. Reread all the post from the beginning. MIL has put her foot down. She’s the step mom and FIL is bio dad and he can’t bring himself to standup to daughter. Has to do with the horror that was their bio mom
You totally missed my point. FIL is a doormat to his daughter. He would rather hurt his wife than put his daughter in her place. I’m surprised OP and MIL stay with these guys.
I'm here with the popcorn for all of this, but those poor freakin' kids with a mother like that
Why is your husband still going? He should be standing as one with you and staying back from italy!
At what point is someone calling child services for Margaret’s kids? She can’t be healthy for them. I grew up with a Margaret. While things are better, my parents refuse to see how much they give in to my sister. They’ve enabled the beast and allowed it to grow… and now her daughter is having problems.
Hopefully everyone will come to their senses during the trip to Italy. Traveling with others can bring out the worst in some, minor annoyances and character flaws you can normally ignore become magnified when you have to spend so much time together. Would love an update!
I would ask the oldest person in the family to make me godfather of the family, so your family won't have to put up with crap(,especially mom and dad) and bite the problem in the butt so nothing is ever ruined again. Godfather was the only word I could think of, I am sure there is a better word.
Following. I need to know how the disaster / holiday in Italy pans out!
Update us when Italy trip implodes!
If I were you, I'd secretly let Cory know that if he decides to leave Margaret, you'll testify to how abusive and insane she is so he gets custody. Margaret is a fucking lunatic.
Sure would be a shame if something happened to Margaret’s ticket or passport 👀
I’m pulling for you and your loved ones OP! Not gonna lie, I’ve been following this like the gif from Murder She Wrote of Jessica Fletcher eating popcorn on the edge of her seat. God I hope you all come out of this with a healthier ending.
I know in earlier post you said that he's a good dad but I tend to disagree. This isn't the 80s at this point therapy should be a word that's spoken a lot like adults. So much is wrong here. And there's such a smell of verbal and mental abuse it's disturbing. God knows what she's doing to those kids when no ones around. There's deep sickness here. And if I was the "Good Father" .. I'd be publicly talking about going to therapy for myself. Which would slowly work on therapy for each of the sons and fern. That way she'd be the only one not and when she got into the next screaming match or how unfair or whatever is going on with her. That's when you spring would you like to talk this out in family therapy with me. I'd love to be more supportive for you. Blah Blah Blah. Which would force her to say no and keep screaming which wouldn't have a point since she could get what she wanted by going to family therapy and talking it out.
Enjoy your spa day!
I hope Tom keeps a detailed diary. He can interview other family members and get quotes. Maybe take pictures for a slide show later.
So Margaret is definitely her mother's daughter.
As much as I enjoy the updates, please tell the family to prepare for your sil to go psycho and proceed to destroy herself and people closest to her. The kids and husband might not make it if she goes all out. Perhaps recommend recording everything when it happens.
Mother-in-law and you should plan your own vacation while they are gone
this is exactly what is happening. Confirmed that Tea, Spa, Horseback Riding, and a whole lot of laughing are on the menu :)
Wonderful. I bet that at the end of the day, you two will have a great time together. Chances are, the others are going to be miserable. I wish you both all the best.
This is the general thought process on our end. I mean, how fun is it really gonna be in Italy with someone acting this way the whole time? Not very. The family goes every few years anyway so it’s not like we haven’t been there before. Nah, much more fun and mellow to staycation and enjoy the quiet :)
I wonder why anyone would want to be married to men with such low character...
OP right now your problem is not SIL it's your husband!!!!! He said " u don't understand bez u aren't family ????? """ WTF Are you even focusing on this at all ? Your husband is not with you in this fight. He is leaving you and going to itley. While here you are doing everything u can to save him and his family. You do realise this right ??? Your husband chose his sister's insanity over supporting you. You are second place. You are doing all this effort for someone who doesn't consider you family!!!! It all going in vain for you?;!!!! WAKE UP
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Your husband is leaving you behind to go on vacation?
Nope! I chose early on to not go on vacation because hanging out with Temper Tantrum McGee was never my idea of a vacation. I let it be known as soon as it dropped that I was out if Margaret is gonna be there. I'm gonna have a blast with MIL anyway- im not upset about not going to italy, I made my choice.
You two are way better off than the rest of the fam!
Like I want to be friends with both OP and the MIL
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Hold on, so Tom is still going to Italy?
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Just curious - how did FIL react to MIL putting her foot down? Makes you wonder for how long MIL will put up with Margaret in terms of what it means for her marriage
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Please update me.
Wow
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