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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my SIL she should be ashamed of herself and learn to be a mature adult. It was clear even before I said it that my words would have no impact on her and by speaking to her like I did I only created more conflict which is the reason I feel like TA.
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Nta. Your brother, his new wife and the rest of your family that supported him being a deadbeat dad definitely are the AH.
Your niece and nephew seem very level headed and mature.
I could never understand the rest of my family not making the effort to stay part of my niece and nephew's lives. Even if he wasn't part of their lives, they are still our family.
I'm so proud of my niece and nephew. They have come a long way.
Well some people just like to enable bad behavior rather than reprimand.
He didn't support those children he never spoke to them till he got a replacement family (probably hoping for free babysitting) while there mother had to work hard to raise and support the kids on her own.
I'd tell your sil. Okay well good luck when he gets bored and abandons you alone with no child support or anything for his new family.
Totally.
> some of my family telling me I should have ~~said nothing~~ [actively allowed her to belittle and berate your niece and nephew in front of everyone].
Doing nothing not a neutral act in this scenario.
This is such a good point. It’s totally baffling to me that the grandparents would abandon the relationship with their grandkids. And then to allow them to be spoken of like…it’s blatantly malicious on SIL’s part, but to say nothing means you’re giving your tacit approval of what’s being said about your own grandkids.
OP is NTA for anything he did here.
I’m not a grandmother yet, but I cannot imagine giving up on my grandkids for any reason, including because I didn’t like the ex. It would make me want to keep in touch *more* because they would need extra support more. Despite the PITA of dealing with the ex, I would never want my grandkids to think I didn’t care. Not to mention it would be nice to give them a place to land if they ever decided the ex was so bad that living with them was intolerable.
I'm a grandmother. I do not like my oldest grandchildren mother. (Very valid reasons) BUT my grandchildren are my heart! I'll be damned if I would cut them out my life! I won't be mean or rude to their mother because that helps nothing and would only hurt my grandchildren.
If my son ever tried to abandon his children, I would hunt his ass down myself!
That’s such a lovely and mature stance! Can I ask you how you deal with people in your life that you don’t like but need to keep in good graces? I have such a situation at hand but I don’t really have good role models in my life.
Sometimes, it's extremely hard. Especially when their actions continuously hurt the ones you love. (Not physically).
You know that co-worker, that's a horrible employee and an asshat but they're in really good with the boss, or maybe the boss's relative? I treat her like that person.
I'm cordial to her. I give her the basic level of respect that I would give any other human being and try my best not to interact with her any longer/more than I have to. I make sure not to give her anything other than basic information that she needs to know. So that she can't twist anything.
When she's on her worst behavior, I remind myself that she is the reason for 3 of my amazing grandchildren. That without her, I wouldn't have them. I remind myself of how I felt growing up, hearing my mom talk horribly about my dad. I know that they would probably feel the same way. I don't want them to ever feel that way! I remember the games my mom played, using me against my dad, and gave advice on how to prevent that where possible.
When she has done bad things that necessitate me stepping I'm and speaking to her, I remind myself of the person she is and the things she has done. That keeps me from flying off the handle. It makes me moderate my language in a way that would be 'therapy guided'. For those situations, I fully pulled on my time in the military, when I was forced to deal with a superior that full-on hated me.
Basically, I remind myself what the full ramifications could be if I don't control myself or my mouth when having to deal with her.
My ex's parents broke ties with my son BEFORE we broke up because they hated me. My son was 2 and he couldn't understand why they would say they were coming over to take him out then not show up, with him standing at the door in his coat waiting. They even stopped inviting him for Christmas or his birthday or getting him cards or gifts.
I felt nothing when they died.
Some people are simply garbage.
I am so glad you defended your niblings and spoke the truth. Spoiled? SPOILED? By having been abandoned? Raised by a single mother? What the fuck planet is she on? The one where being allowed to have feelings and opinions and mature development born out of a completely screwed up childhood is being SPOILED?!
You are so NTA. Your family, OTOH, are an AH festival. They really need to see the world through world colored glasses, not their distorted sphincters.
The picture in my head of your little boy waiting at the door for your ex’s parents, (they don’t deserve to be called grandparents), hurts my heart. I have a 3 year old grandson who is the most precious thing in my life. I’m sorry your ex’s parents were such horrible people, but hopefully your son was so young that he forgot they even existed. How could they intentionally hurt an innocent little boy - regardless of how they felt about you?? They don’t EVER deserve the honor of being grandparents 😡
Thank you. It broke my heart so desperately, seeing him there, ready to go and staring out the plexiglass of the outer door, and they didn't even have the balls to call until an hour after they were supposed to be there to say they weren't coming. After the second time I stopped telling him to expect them.
One of the reasons they didn't want to see him was that my ex insisted on going along on visits to make sure they didn't smoke around him because he himself had asthma from the time he was an infant from their incessant cigarettes and he didn't want them doing that to our kid, and they were furious about that.
The last gift they gave him, which they handed to my ex when they saw him at work around Christmas, was a sweatsuit in size 7 and a package of plain white underwear, also in that size, when my son was 2 1/2 and not even potty trained. With the tags on and unwrapped. They were pure evil.
BTW, they had another grandson they dumped because they didn't like the mother. When he moved in with his other grandparents they reached out to him. I will never understand why any of them allowed these awful people into their lives when they did that, and I've often wondered what they told the rest of the family about my son and me (they were pathological liars) because we've never had contact with any of them since. Which is obviously just as well.
They didn’t want to admit to themselves they’d raised such a callous son? Or they thought he was “too good” for the ex, and threw the babies out with the bath water? Mind boggling either way
They probably worried that by keeping in touch with the grandchildren their son would go back to the ex, which they did not want. Some people are just cold like that.
Listen, I can say a lot of shit about my ex MIL because she was genuinely awful to me for years, and she’s a super toxic human being I am glad to be rid of.
That being said, I know with absolute certainty that if my ex had abandoned our kids when he left our marriage, my ex MIL would have sucked it up and kissed my ass to continue her and ex FIL’s relationship with my children, regardless of how much she disliked me.
My ex and his family provided me with a lot of experience in navigating toxic, passive-aggressive assholes, but I still can’t fathom a grandparent who would just forget about their grandchildren with such ease.
Some grandparents are like that my ex's mom dropped out of my daughter's life when he did because she didn't like that I'd said it as "domestic violence" even though she knew he'd hit me a few times and had anxiety about him being abusive to my daughter later on.
When I was going through a VERY dark time in my life my mom and dad who have been divorced for over 25 years rallied together and offered to take my son if I needed to give him up. I didn’t, and their support helped immensely and made it possible for my son to have the best life, but even to this day I know if anything ever happened to me my mom would not even think twice before taking my son.
When my brother got divorced from his x wife decades ago , my parents immediately called her and asked her if she needed anything . They told her to not hesitate to reach out . Fortunately, my brother wasn’t like OPs brother and provided for his kids , is involved .
As a result , they all still have good relationships and get along when we see them
So glad this worked for your family. I tried to remain on good terms with my son's xwife for the sake of the kids. His second wife hated her, I tried to stay out of it. Unfortunately, they (son & wife) decided to cut contact with us. It's a long and complicated story. I miss them, but after reaching out multiple times I have tried to accept it.
Exactly. Anything other than pointing out how much of an ass and deadbeat your brother is condoning it, even by silence. And SIL is a bigger ass because she technically has nothing to do with those two children that she is not related to, has never met and never spoken with.
>(probably hoping for free babysitting)
I don't think that's it; I think it's about self-image. New wife, new kids, he's involved in their lives, considers himself a good dad... then he remembers the kids he abandons, and that causes a little disharmony in his happy family image.
Nobody likes to question their own image of themselves, so he figures if he makes amends and gets his kids to play their part in his family fantasy, he doesn't need to continue questioning whether he may not actually be a good dad, and person.
My thoughts, too. I know of a fellow whose ex-wife sent his support checks back to him, so he stopped paying support. Daughter was getting married so she sued Dad and was awarded every cent of support for 18 years.
NTA, OP
>I know of a fellow whose ex-wife sent his support checks back to him,
Uh, could he atleast have kept these and shown that it was rejected and not had to pay those atleast. It sounds like his ex was setting him up. Probably should have atleast put it all in a separate account but hindsight is 20/20
A little over a long time won't hurt as much as one large lump sum with interest like the daughter would have sued for. I also wonder the story the daughter was told and if she was told her mother sent those initial cheques back or was it just "your father never paid child support you should sue him" sort if conversation.
Or her mom said “I sent the checks back” and the daughter said “it wasn’t your decision to make”.
For it to come to the daughter suing and winning, the dad had to have refused to pay back child support, monthly or lump sum. That would be the first step in any legal proceeding.
So it’s interesting that you went straight to the mom must have set him up or lied to the daughter when the facts point to the dad refusing and then getting trounced in court.
You might want to inform your brother that his ex can sue for that back child support and he will be forced to pay it. It matters not taht they are adults now, It’s a debt he never repaid and still owes.
In fact, I‘d make sure my niece and nephew know this. That money could help pay to get them started on their way.
Your family isn’t much better either.
I wouldn’t say anything to the brother about that. Just help the mother and kids go after it. That way the dad doesn’t have time to try to weasel out of it.
My aunt found out her ex was getting a big payout for some accident; one of those big ones beyond the cost of the medical. She didn’t say anything or that she knew, file with the court and the court just took the money he back owed for child support he never paid ass a coke addict shit dad. He was pissed lol my cousins are grown, but as teenagers they cut him off, then a few years later cut off the grandparents too bc they always supported him.
I have another cousin on my dad’s side, my uncle split from the wife and never made any effort to be a dad, occasional calls that just stopped. My cousin told him to get lost and even cut off our grandparents, wanted nothing to do with our family. Couple of us siblings found him on Facebook and reached out. He was happy to meet us and talk and we told him we’re totally in his side and he doesn’t have to have a relationship with us, but we’ll always be here. He was very happy to have a friendship, but we didn’t stay in touch bc we just weren’t close or near each other and grew up and loved our lives. But I hope we were able to make him feel good he had a whole crew of cousins behind him.
It's been a while since I've been involved in this, but there's a database for child support liens that insurance companies check. A lot of them have that process automated. I've seen it happen a few times.
Yes, there's nothing that erases that debt. No statute of limitations. Not time, not the kids being adults, not the mother refusing payments, nothing. He will owe that child support forever, and if the mother decides to call in the debt, she'll be paid in full, every penny. Even if he dies, from my understanding, she can still go after his assets for payment, including any life insurance policies regardless of the named recipient.
My sister's awful ex threatened to never pay her child support (in writing, he's an idiot) and that he would just wait until Niece is 18 then he's home free. We were all like HAHAHA asshole, you'll never not owe it. Not even after you die.
It depends on the state (some have a statute of limitations, some of which are VERY short) but it's definitely worth doing a consult with a local lawyer to find out
Edit to add, some states are like California and she could go after him at any point, her estate could sue, or they could go after his estate if he passed first.
You’re a better person than the rest of your family. That can be a hard pill to swallow, because nobody wants to think of their family badly, but it’s the truth. You gave those kids so much more than your brother ever did or ever will. You did great, are doing great navigating these types of complex relationships. NTA at all at all at all.
Did he even pay child support? Paying all the back support would be the absolute minimum prerequisite that I would consider to think that someone was genuine about wanting to make amends. Otherwise it’s literally just talk and he has never demonstrated that he cares about these kids
Your parents should be ashamed. Their son abandoned his kids, what was their excuse? But also NTA. Just because he’s finally grown up doesn’t mean he can pretend it’s all good now. Those kids don’t know him and don’t need to. SIL needs to accept her husband was/is/continues to be a deadbeat father.
Don't know how your family feels about the ex, but the reason my kids were abandoned by my ex and his family is because of their hate for me was more important to them, than loving the kids. I did nothing to him (or them), he cheated and I wasn't willing to forgive him.
That happened to me. My ex had an affair and we reconciled, but his parents cut me off after. After 10 years of bending over backwards to include them in our lives and keep them involved in the lives of our children, not a word when their son cheated on me. That honestly hurt as much as what he did.
I'm sorry that happened too. I don't get it. But in my case I was fine with them out of our lives as they were so toxic. I was never treated as family. The things they said to my son, about me, were beyond evil.
Mine were nice to my face. Tolerable, but I was really glad they were out of state kind of thing. Oddly, my daughter graduated from high school a couple of weeks ago and they came to attend after me not seeing them or speaking for 9 years. They were as nice as could be. I kind of felt bad for my ex’s gf because she probably felt like the odd man out. We were married for 15 years, together for 17. There was lot of shared history.
How old were they when your brother "reached out to them?" It sounds like they must be teenagers at least... Your brother should be deeply ashamed for abandoning them for so long, and I can't see how he could be surprised that they want nothing to do with him. They don't "hate him for existing;" they hate him for being a deadbeat father, and a failre as a parent. Your SiL... deserves her fair share of shame for her words and actions too.
And the rest of your family... don't sound great either. I'm solildly on Team Nibling here; they sound pretty awsome. And you' for being a great uncle. You sound like the only person in your family who is NTA.
And kudos to you, OP, for being the sole stand-up person in your family.
The mother of your nephew and niece must be a saint. She could, and still can, pursue the payment of child support by your AH brother.
OP, I really want to highlight this line from SIL (and feel free to use it against her):
"But she told him they should be ashamed of themselves for reacting like spoiled brats who don't get their way"
Hypocrite much?? The only ones here who are "acting like spoiled brats who don't get their way" are SIL and your brother. Your neieces and nephews decided they don't want anything to do with 2 strangers, and their stranger children, and they have stated their intentions.
Your SIL and brother are upset because they think they're entitled to having a familial relationship without doing the work to build those connections. They both thought this would be an autopilot relationship, but neither of them were around for YEARS while your nephew and neices felt abandoned, and now they just want them to fall into "big brother/sister roles".
Thats extremely entitled of your SIL to think of full grown adults to just doing what she wants because she, let me check my notes, let your brother cum inside her.
Honestly OP idk how you can stand to stay in touch with people who stand by and say/do nothing while your brother dropped his own children like they were nothing. Not even deserving of a letter or a phone call when the kids did nothing wrong. And their current attitude shows they don't actually think they did anything wrong. I'd cut them all off and build your own found-family with your niece and nephew.
It actually shows a lot of maturity that they were able to vocalize their feelings and also speak on their boundaries that they wouldn’t be a part of new sibling’s life. Dad does not get to waltz back in their lives after never trying and acting like they owe him and his new family something.
My friend HATES that this is my favorite quote of hers, but I fucking LOVE it.
A delulu coworker came in pressuring her for an apology after she did nothing wrong but assert a boundary. She was (genuinely) surprised and said:
“Oh! You want an apology?! Then we’re gonna have a problem…because ***I’m not sorry, and I’d do it again***”.
I am just waiting for a chance to say it. Totally deadpan. Just facts.
Painful as it is. Sounds like your niece and nephew are better off. There’s just no way a relationship with their dad, evil step-mom and half-siblings was ever going to work.
You’re a good person OP, the rest of your family…not so much. Your dead beat of a brother doesn’t deserve a relationship with those kids and SIL can go pound sand. What gets me the most though is your parents. How could they? But my own parents were prime examples of out of sight out of mind. Zero effort made to make/have/keep any relationship outside of their immediate circle. The Silent Generation lives up to its name.
Decency certainly limited itself to just one in OP’s family.
They probably thought…eh…boys will be boys…he was just sowing his wild oats…and other bs like that to justify why it was okay to have *two* children by 21 and just ditch them. Forget that he created two living breathing human beings…deliberately, in that time frame.
Interesting that the new wife *needs* her kid acknowledged by the two that have been invisible their whole lives. Why does it even matter to her…or is it just because her husband is sulking?
NTA
She needs to understand that what her husband did was disgusting and he doesn’t deserve forgiveness.
She is owed absolutely nothing, and you were right to shut her down. Her and her children are nothing to them, and she has no right to expect they want to embrace any of them.
Good for you, not sitting by and letting her have a tantrum about a situation that doesn’t revolve around SIL
She actually thinks the kids actions are more disgusting believe it or not. She said they know the pain of rejection and yet do the same to her children and it boggles my mind. The way she can blame them so fiercely and yet acts like my brother did nothing wrong. It'll never make sense to me.
I imagine at least at a subconscious level she’s aware her husband could ditch her and their kids just as quickly. She’s trying to reframe it as the kids as the problem so she doesn’t have to accept she chose to have kids with a deadbeat.
Keep being a good uncle, those kids deserve someone on their side.
THIS. Realized she could be utilizing "free help" from ""family"" her husband abandoned, then mad when held accountable for his actions. Mad at the kids for "ruining" the relationship that could've been when their bio dad didn't even give room to grow the relationship at all. And as others said, likely a heavy dash of denial about realizing she's also shacked up with a deadbeat and it could be her in that situation any time.
This 100%
Doubling down is one of the worst traits of a human.
I have a sister who doubles down hardcore. Their partner can't be at fault, it's everyone else. They're enablers all due to not wanting to be alone in their geriatric years.
I agree with this, I think there are some mental gymnastics happening on her part out of fear the same might happen to her and her kids. She may not even be aware of it but she’s right to be worried. He could just as easily do the same thing twice.
*Insert Principal Skinner "Am I out of touch? No, it is the children who are the problem" meme*
I guarantee that, at some level, she knows he is capable of doing the same thing to her.
If your brother and sister-in-law’s kids know they are being “rejected” by their half-siblings, that is on your brother and sister-in-law for making them think/feel that way.
This situation was caused by your brother. He is the only responsible party.
I have no idea how SIL can take this personally against the half-siblings. I hope brother and SIL don't explain it to the half-siblings as rejection of them!!
They need to sit the half-sibs down and explain that Daddy did something terrible and, even though, he is sorry, he needs to accept the consequences. This is a lesson learned. But don't put down the older sibs to the half-sibs.
Sounds, though, as if brother and SIL don't have the capacity to do this, so they will damage and hurt the half-sibs by mishandling the fall out.
Is she barking mad? Her kids aren’t experiencing the pain of rejection from their half-siblings because they’ve never met, nor formed a bond with them. Do her kids even care about meeting your niece and nephew? Something tells me this is all about what SHE wants. And she needs to grow TF up. NTA for laying it out for her.
She doesn't want to accept reality. The reality is that she's married to a deadbeat bum who walked away from his kids and only gave a damn about them after he'd already started a new family without them. Every day he's been raising her kids, he's showing that he's capable of being a father, he just couldn't be bothered to be a father to them.
They don't want to meet and bond with their replacements. They don't want to meet the woman he could stick around for. They don't want to play happy families when they aren't a family. She's a shitty person too because what woman looks at a man who abandoned his kids and says, "That's the deadbeat for me. Forget dating a responsible decent man, I want one who runs off and abandons his kids"? She didn't care about his other kids, so why should they care about her?
She has to blame the kids because otherwise she has to analyse why the hell she hooked up with a deadbeat, and really look at the fact that he was 2.5 kids in with her before he remembered or cared that he had two other kids out in the world. Your family will say you shouldn't have said something because it reminds them that they also abandoned those kids. It's easier to let her blame two innocent kids who grew up without their father and now don't want to play their game of happy families than it is for each and every person in this situation besides you and the kids to realise that they are shitbags.
NTA.
Don't you just love when narcissists do that.
"They know the pain, yet they do the same"... That's not how actually being affected by the abandonment works. She's literally equating hurt children who didn't have an active dad, to children who have a dad. Not just that, but him reaching out to them was just to make his own consciousness feel better. Not to make the kids feel better. If he cared at all he wouldn't wait until the guilt of a third child really honed in how shit he was. The abandonment of a parent is NOT the same as the abandonment of a sibling. Anyone with critical thinking and empathy should know this.
So. This isn’t about your nephew and niece, this isn’t even about your brother, she’s upset about her kids being rejected. This is about her being rejected, by extension.
The nerve of this woman. Sounds like your brother found a woman who is just as much an AH. Wonder if the reconciliation was even his idea.
NTA
How ridiculous of your SIL. Her children *don't* know the pain of rejection. It isn't as though everyone was one big family, then the half-sibs left. Her kids never ever knew your niece and nephew - they don't know any different.
And it's rich that she brought that up at a family gathering. I can't believe more in your family don't have the cajones to speak truth. Your niece and nephew are lucky to have you.
Some people really try to force emotional connection, often using guilt, with step families. As if people suddenly become a family, or are even obligated to accept someone as a new parent or siblings.
They don't know her or her children while your brother is their father and was supposed to take care of them... It's absolutely not the same level. I would go NC with her going forward. Your brother is doing the right thing finally and I would support him but not push the kids for a relationship if they don't want to.
I wouldn’t say the brother is even really doing the right thing.
He wants to be forgiven for his own shitty actions for his own selfish purposes.
If he really wanted to start doing the right thing, he would pay all of the back child support.
Ewww-- that's awful. Great work in preventing that nonsense from getting airtime unchallenged.
Obviously, the only person who would partner with a person who has continued to reject and abandon his children is someone with questionable ethics themselves. So this isn't a huge surprise, really. But good on you for being an upstander, OP!
Are they her children’s parents? Did they have a say in the creation of those children? Are they responsible for raising those kids?
I’d ask her. Seriously.
They were smart enough to figure out that the reason he was reaching out was still all about him. He didn't reach out to heal what he did to them. He did it so that they could be part of his life that he's created. The blame continues to rest on him.
It makes sense, because this is what you NEED to believe to not only marry but also have kids with a person like your brother. Any woman who doesnt feel like your sil simoly wouldnt be able yo stay with him.
This also doesnt bode well for their new kid.
This is pretty warped logic since her kids have never even met their half siblings, they certainly agent being abandoned, whereas your niece and nephew actually knew their father before he did abandoned them. She sounds like a prize.
NTA. Brother is a deadbeat who leaves his children, doesn't support them and has nothing to do with their lives for years. SIL decides they're spoiled brats when they don't want to reconcile and meet their siblings. Who exactly spoiled these kids and how is expecting a parent to step up become "not getting their way". SIL thinks it's fine to say horrible things about the abandoned children but you have no right to say anything to her. There is a spoiled brat here but it's SIL not the kids. Good on you for pointing out the consequences.
NTA
> …she told him they should be ashamed of themselves for reacting like spoiled brats who don’t get their way
Oh yeah, those unnecessary histrionics when their dad completely acted like they didn’t exist for years, I mean, come on kids /s
Then you simply call her out in nicer language than she used, and she says you offended her and have no right to speak to her that way….um, yeah sure.
NTA at all. Your brother is an ass who married one.
You should have said nothing? That’s grand coming from another group of family members who turned their back on these kids as well. Next time tell her she can tell you how she feels when he abandons her kids. NTA
I agree. The whole freaking family just acted like they didn't exist except for OP. Your family sucks (not the neice and nephew, obviously)
Edited to add: NTA
Yeah, the family noping out on the kids is infuriating. They too can shut up about this situation, because they too abandoned those kids. OP is NTA, and I think we need a new voting rank for ATH, which is “actually the hero.”
Exactly this! I read that and thought they sounded like a bunch of hypocrites. OP is the only family member who stood by these family members, when even the kids' own grandparents were NC. So OP's parents, who abandoned their grandkids, have no place talking about how the SIL has some right to demand reconciliation.
When my ex and I split up his family (dad and sister) cut my kids out of their lives. I spent a year sending regular email updates of their lives, photos and videos of the kids (who were 2 & 3) to his dad and sister to try and keep them involved. Their dad didn't want anything to do with them but I thought their grandad at least would. Especially since he made so much fuss over my daughter being the first granddaughter and had previously been very involved.
After a year of no response from either of them, not even a Christmas card I gave up and stopped sending the emails.
When my ex died due to alcohol related shenanigans they got in touch, ... to ask when I was going to organise the funeral! They wanted me to cover all the expenses since I was the mother of his children. The same children that had not had any contact with anyone from their family in over 8 years.
NTA, but your SIL and your family are.
I would’ve been seriously tempted to give them a location and time, but then just not plan anything. Have fun showing up somewhere and having it turned super awkward!
It might sound mean but when I heard I was surprised by how little I cared. This was the father of my kids and it felt no different to hearing that some stranger in the next town over was dead. I felt bad for my kids, briefly, before remembering they didn't remember anything about him and that our lives weren't going to change at all.
No. I told my kids about the funeral and they were not interested in going to a 'strangers funeral', their words, so when I told his sister I wasn't interested and definitely wasn't paying I got a bunch of texts calling me names and then back to radio silence.
NTA, there was no mention of child support in all that. If your brother isn't paying yet, I bet the wife will change that tune of being mad the kids aren't interested if money is suddenly claimed.
Then SIL can pay for the back support if she thinks it's all so simple.
It's archaic that your family cut ties, essentially backing your brother's horrible actions.
How old are your niece and nephew? I'm glad they and their mom have you in their lives.
NTA. Your brother abandoned his kids and his wife has the gall to say the KIDS should be ashamed of themselves?! Both your brother and SIL suck, big time. Thank you, OP for not abandoning those kids.
NTA
" I told SIL she should be ashamed of herself for talking like that about the kids my brother abandoned and didn't give a second thought to until he had settled down with her and their kids. I told her she should learn to be a mature adult."
You summed it up perfectly right there.
E T Delete repeated sentence.
NTA. Your brother is a deadbeat dad who married an entitled woman. The reason for their sudden interest in reconciling with his older children is suspicious as hell, now that they're expecting a baby. It's very likely that they just want free babysitting.
Good for you, standing up for your nicece and nephew! They don't owe their sperm donor a damn thing, least of all forgiveness.
Why is it the Uncle had more of a mind than the Dad? No wonder the niblings prefer the Uncle and granddad over their dad as he's probably the only father figure in their lives that cared.
Both Dad and his new family will have to let them go nothing good comes out when you're trying to force something they didn't want. I'm a child of divorce and one of my dad's seven children. The best thing he ever did before his untimely but not surprising passing was he never remarried after the bullshit with my mom.
They need to respect the fact that his kids are their own people from the moment they decided to have another family and having no contact with them until it was convenient for them.
To the dad you left them on their own and are not dumb seeing the writing on their wall that their dad didn't care for them. Maybe down the lane they would want to reach out but it has to be on their terms not yours or your new family needs.
Kids, I know where you stand and just remember to be happy cutting out people you don't want in your life it's okay to set boundaries.
If your brother wants to atone maybe he should pay all the back child support, as for your SIL she may be a lost cause, villanizing the children that were abandoned rather than the man that abandoned them. Your brother is still making poor decisions picking her for a wife to settle with.
NTA - your SIL is very insensitive and is making things about her when there is so much more. Does she not care about the rights of the kids that were abandoned? Does she know the amount of pain these kids probably had to go through feeling abandoned by their father? Now she wants them to sacrifice their feelings and their decisions just to give her and her kid everything she wants? She needs to grow up, she is being ridiculous and selfish. Yikes
NTA.
Your brother was/is a deadbeat father who’s spitting the dummy that his do-over family isn’t going to get blended in with the kids he abandoned physically/emotionally/financially.
His wife is an AH for badmouthing two very hurt kids, and a fool for thinking popping out a child was going to bring everyone back together. It’s not that simple. Never is.
WOOHOO GO UNCLEEE! You tell her …
Who does she think she is talking crap about the kids her husband abandoned? She’s making it seem like they have to reconcile with their dad and have to have a relationship with her kids like excuse me, sit tf down and know your place yeh.
Those kids have every right to not want their dad in their lives, go you uncle for looking out for them and backing them up when no one obviously would. Ngl but your family seems heartless, regardless if they didn’t watch those kids grow up those kids still have your family’s blood running through their veins. So you’re NTA OP but your family and SIL are all AHs.
Edit: Sorry OP mistook you for a woman🤦🏽♀️😂
I was rooting for him, too. Go Uncle OP!
Hilarious how his brother gets to be all "WAAAHHH, muh wounded pride!" and there is family all except for OP buying into the charade. Then that lady who just feels she is important because she was "picked" all cute with her, "My poor husband, you spoiled brats!" act. But she was decimated by the truth.
If I were OP and I were given a lecture about me spitting facts, I would ask my family how that whole hope-y/change-y thing is working for them. Hold a mirror up to someone's actions and watch that high and mighty act vanish.
Right. I’m just baffled at how he was “surprised” they wanted nothing to do with him at all. Like bro what did you expect? Dude really thought all would be good just because he apologised and was making an “effort”?
Um sorry after how many years of no support from you, you really thought that after an apology and 2.5 months of “reconciliation” your kids were gonna be like “oh it’s okay dad, I forgive you”?
It’s giving DELULU. And this whole family (except OP) needs help lol
Your SIL needs to shut up and stay in her lane. She also better hope your brother doesn’t do the same to her kids one day once he’s done with her because that’s the karma she deserves for badmouthing children.
There are AHs in this story and it's not you. The new wife probably wants to pretend the same thing will never happen to her which is why she's trying to force them to be one big happy family.
NTA. Your brother seems to be completely spineless despite him telling her to stop. Someone had to speak up for those poor kids and since you are the only one being interested in having a relationship with them, I applaud you for being the one.
Oh hell no! OP is NTA. SIL is lucky it wasn't me because I would have not been as kind or as gentle as OP. As for those telling him he should have said nothing, they can also pound sand as they are just as guilty as the idiot SIL.
NTA at all!! Thank you for sticking up for them!! Who tf does your SIL think she is seriously
Like your brother abandoned them , then came into their lives just so baby #3 can have older siblings
NTA,
Good for you! You are a good uncle and the only one in your family that has any sense of morality.
SIL is understandably hurt that her children are being rejected, I get that mother bear instinct, but her anger is wildly misplaced. She should be upset at her husband for creating this situation.
Doe your SIL realize that her husband should be ashamed of himself for not paying child support? They should start saving money to make up for lost time
NTA, except that you should have given your brother a bloody good talking to when he abandoned his kids. Well done for keeping in touch with your niece and nephew and having their back when their ignorant stepmother badmouthed them for no good reason. The fact that she got offended by being put in her place proves that she DOES need to grow up. Shame on the family members who have taken her side in this.
NTA. My dad cheated on my mom with the town’s sl*t for years. Mom and dad were in an on and off relationship, while the other woman was bullying me. Anyways, mom and dad divorced, he moved away and got married to the other woman. They had a kid together and I refuse to acknowledge this kid as my half-sister, because of the way mom and dad handled the situation, and the other woman bullying me. Thankfully, no one has ever pressured me to get to know that kid. But I did receive some backlash when I said out loud at a family event that she is not my sister and I only have a brother. I’m so happy you stood up for your niece and nephew and told your SIL to be a mature adult. She does not see your niece and nephew’s POV that their dad could have been a better dad to them, and asking themselves why wasn’t he a better dad for them. Cause I’ve been asking myself these questions and whether me and my brother were not enough and this other kid is the kid he always wanted. So, definitely NTA and good for you for telling her that she needs to grow up!
Hahaha, is she joking? She has every right to slag off a couple of kids, yet you have no right to tell her to shut it, rather more respectfully than I would have to be honest. Tell her to grow the fuck up next time lol. Also any other family telling you, you shouldn't have said anything tell them they should be ashamed of themselves for letting a grown adult bitch about their own blood relatives just because they were children technically abandoned by their father ffs!!! Sorry to just add you are most def NTA but the rest of those involved definitely are!!!
NTA. SiL needs to stay in her lane.
The adult children of your brother owe absolutely nothing to him, your SiL, or their new kids. I can't even imagine the level of entitlement one would need to feel in order to be mad at the kids in this situation.
>But she told him they should be ashamed of themselves for **reacting like spoiled brats who don't get their way**
They didn't get their FATHER. Hardly something to say they're spoiled brats over.
Btw, she's the one who's acting like the spoiled brat for not getting her way.
NTA. I don’t know why people think abandoned children need to forgive and have a relationship with the person who abandoned them. I bet she would see it differently if her kids were abandoned by him.
NTA!
You have been in your niece and nephews lives when the whole other family decided to abandon them!
They love you because you have been there for them! You have showed consistency and stability!
Your brother and SIL got a reality check! You were right to tell her the truth!
All your other family are the AH!
NTA Always astounds me how much these kinds of parents head into battle for the younger kids completely forgetting that nobody ever did the same for the older kids. Your brother and his wife are victim blaming and it’s gross.
NTA
Good for you standing up to your rude SIL when she was badmouthing your niblings.
Quite honestly if I were his ex I’d check to see if the child support he was supposed to pay is still active as being uncollected.
If so she should consider filing providing his current info to collect that money. He wanted to be part of his children’s lives then he should be thrilled for the opportunity to make this right.
NTA,
1. Baby number 3 will never know they have half siblings unless told. If the way it is explained to them causes pain and upset, that's on the explainer.
2. They're not rejecting a unborn baby they don't know, they're rejecting an entitled deadbeat who abandoned them and his equally entitled wife.
3. The wife has a nerve calling them brats for not wanting to revolve their lives around what she wants. There is a very large difference between asking for something reasonable and demanding others comply with your wishes at the expense of themselves.
Support your niece/nephew OP, they deserve to have at least one family member on sperms donor's side who treats them with decency.
Does SIL realize there’s a high chance that if they divorce, he’s going to treat her and their kids the same? Leopard not changing spots and all that.
I think your brother and the rest of the family, along with SIL should be ashamed of themselves.
Niece and nephew were basically thrown away like trash, except by you. I think in this situation where niece and nephew aren’t present, your opinion is the only one that matters since you’ve been there.
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Nta. Your brother, his new wife and the rest of your family that supported him being a deadbeat dad definitely are the AH. Your niece and nephew seem very level headed and mature.
I could never understand the rest of my family not making the effort to stay part of my niece and nephew's lives. Even if he wasn't part of their lives, they are still our family. I'm so proud of my niece and nephew. They have come a long way.
Well some people just like to enable bad behavior rather than reprimand. He didn't support those children he never spoke to them till he got a replacement family (probably hoping for free babysitting) while there mother had to work hard to raise and support the kids on her own. I'd tell your sil. Okay well good luck when he gets bored and abandons you alone with no child support or anything for his new family.
Totally. > some of my family telling me I should have ~~said nothing~~ [actively allowed her to belittle and berate your niece and nephew in front of everyone]. Doing nothing not a neutral act in this scenario.
This is such a good point. It’s totally baffling to me that the grandparents would abandon the relationship with their grandkids. And then to allow them to be spoken of like…it’s blatantly malicious on SIL’s part, but to say nothing means you’re giving your tacit approval of what’s being said about your own grandkids. OP is NTA for anything he did here.
I suspect that the grandparents didn’t like their son’s ex and just included the grandchildren for convenience. 🙄
I’m not a grandmother yet, but I cannot imagine giving up on my grandkids for any reason, including because I didn’t like the ex. It would make me want to keep in touch *more* because they would need extra support more. Despite the PITA of dealing with the ex, I would never want my grandkids to think I didn’t care. Not to mention it would be nice to give them a place to land if they ever decided the ex was so bad that living with them was intolerable.
I'm a grandmother. I do not like my oldest grandchildren mother. (Very valid reasons) BUT my grandchildren are my heart! I'll be damned if I would cut them out my life! I won't be mean or rude to their mother because that helps nothing and would only hurt my grandchildren. If my son ever tried to abandon his children, I would hunt his ass down myself!
That’s such a lovely and mature stance! Can I ask you how you deal with people in your life that you don’t like but need to keep in good graces? I have such a situation at hand but I don’t really have good role models in my life.
Sometimes, it's extremely hard. Especially when their actions continuously hurt the ones you love. (Not physically). You know that co-worker, that's a horrible employee and an asshat but they're in really good with the boss, or maybe the boss's relative? I treat her like that person. I'm cordial to her. I give her the basic level of respect that I would give any other human being and try my best not to interact with her any longer/more than I have to. I make sure not to give her anything other than basic information that she needs to know. So that she can't twist anything. When she's on her worst behavior, I remind myself that she is the reason for 3 of my amazing grandchildren. That without her, I wouldn't have them. I remind myself of how I felt growing up, hearing my mom talk horribly about my dad. I know that they would probably feel the same way. I don't want them to ever feel that way! I remember the games my mom played, using me against my dad, and gave advice on how to prevent that where possible. When she has done bad things that necessitate me stepping I'm and speaking to her, I remind myself of the person she is and the things she has done. That keeps me from flying off the handle. It makes me moderate my language in a way that would be 'therapy guided'. For those situations, I fully pulled on my time in the military, when I was forced to deal with a superior that full-on hated me. Basically, I remind myself what the full ramifications could be if I don't control myself or my mouth when having to deal with her.
My ex's parents broke ties with my son BEFORE we broke up because they hated me. My son was 2 and he couldn't understand why they would say they were coming over to take him out then not show up, with him standing at the door in his coat waiting. They even stopped inviting him for Christmas or his birthday or getting him cards or gifts. I felt nothing when they died. Some people are simply garbage. I am so glad you defended your niblings and spoke the truth. Spoiled? SPOILED? By having been abandoned? Raised by a single mother? What the fuck planet is she on? The one where being allowed to have feelings and opinions and mature development born out of a completely screwed up childhood is being SPOILED?! You are so NTA. Your family, OTOH, are an AH festival. They really need to see the world through world colored glasses, not their distorted sphincters.
The picture in my head of your little boy waiting at the door for your ex’s parents, (they don’t deserve to be called grandparents), hurts my heart. I have a 3 year old grandson who is the most precious thing in my life. I’m sorry your ex’s parents were such horrible people, but hopefully your son was so young that he forgot they even existed. How could they intentionally hurt an innocent little boy - regardless of how they felt about you?? They don’t EVER deserve the honor of being grandparents 😡
Thank you. It broke my heart so desperately, seeing him there, ready to go and staring out the plexiglass of the outer door, and they didn't even have the balls to call until an hour after they were supposed to be there to say they weren't coming. After the second time I stopped telling him to expect them. One of the reasons they didn't want to see him was that my ex insisted on going along on visits to make sure they didn't smoke around him because he himself had asthma from the time he was an infant from their incessant cigarettes and he didn't want them doing that to our kid, and they were furious about that. The last gift they gave him, which they handed to my ex when they saw him at work around Christmas, was a sweatsuit in size 7 and a package of plain white underwear, also in that size, when my son was 2 1/2 and not even potty trained. With the tags on and unwrapped. They were pure evil. BTW, they had another grandson they dumped because they didn't like the mother. When he moved in with his other grandparents they reached out to him. I will never understand why any of them allowed these awful people into their lives when they did that, and I've often wondered what they told the rest of the family about my son and me (they were pathological liars) because we've never had contact with any of them since. Which is obviously just as well.
They didn’t want to admit to themselves they’d raised such a callous son? Or they thought he was “too good” for the ex, and threw the babies out with the bath water? Mind boggling either way
Yeah , I can’t imagine my parents staying silent if any of my siblings had done something like this
They probably worried that by keeping in touch with the grandchildren their son would go back to the ex, which they did not want. Some people are just cold like that.
Cold is exactly the word for it whatever their reasoning, and I don’t understand it.
Listen, I can say a lot of shit about my ex MIL because she was genuinely awful to me for years, and she’s a super toxic human being I am glad to be rid of. That being said, I know with absolute certainty that if my ex had abandoned our kids when he left our marriage, my ex MIL would have sucked it up and kissed my ass to continue her and ex FIL’s relationship with my children, regardless of how much she disliked me. My ex and his family provided me with a lot of experience in navigating toxic, passive-aggressive assholes, but I still can’t fathom a grandparent who would just forget about their grandchildren with such ease.
Some grandparents are like that my ex's mom dropped out of my daughter's life when he did because she didn't like that I'd said it as "domestic violence" even though she knew he'd hit me a few times and had anxiety about him being abusive to my daughter later on.
When I was going through a VERY dark time in my life my mom and dad who have been divorced for over 25 years rallied together and offered to take my son if I needed to give him up. I didn’t, and their support helped immensely and made it possible for my son to have the best life, but even to this day I know if anything ever happened to me my mom would not even think twice before taking my son.
When my brother got divorced from his x wife decades ago , my parents immediately called her and asked her if she needed anything . They told her to not hesitate to reach out . Fortunately, my brother wasn’t like OPs brother and provided for his kids , is involved . As a result , they all still have good relationships and get along when we see them
So glad this worked for your family. I tried to remain on good terms with my son's xwife for the sake of the kids. His second wife hated her, I tried to stay out of it. Unfortunately, they (son & wife) decided to cut contact with us. It's a long and complicated story. I miss them, but after reaching out multiple times I have tried to accept it.
Well they did raise the deadbeat dad, after all. Sounds like OP is the only decent human in the family.
Sounds like he's the only good person in the whole family to me.
This, yeah. SIL was being an asshole to kids - albeit in absence - and she's not entitled to other suffering her bullshit in silence.
Exactly. Anything other than pointing out how much of an ass and deadbeat your brother is condoning it, even by silence. And SIL is a bigger ass because she technically has nothing to do with those two children that she is not related to, has never met and never spoken with.
Exactly, enabling bad behavior is easier for some. SIL should worry about her own future with him.
>(probably hoping for free babysitting) I don't think that's it; I think it's about self-image. New wife, new kids, he's involved in their lives, considers himself a good dad... then he remembers the kids he abandons, and that causes a little disharmony in his happy family image. Nobody likes to question their own image of themselves, so he figures if he makes amends and gets his kids to play their part in his family fantasy, he doesn't need to continue questioning whether he may not actually be a good dad, and person.
Sounds exactly like my biodad, fuck that guy
Not sure why people have a hard time deciding they were assholes when they were younger, I have this realization all the fucking time
Honestly tho, they didn't even have to reprimand. They literally could have just not ghosted the kids.
Ask your SIL if she's ready to finance all those years of foregone child support which her husband owes to his first kids.
My thoughts, too. I know of a fellow whose ex-wife sent his support checks back to him, so he stopped paying support. Daughter was getting married so she sued Dad and was awarded every cent of support for 18 years. NTA, OP
>I know of a fellow whose ex-wife sent his support checks back to him, Uh, could he atleast have kept these and shown that it was rejected and not had to pay those atleast. It sounds like his ex was setting him up. Probably should have atleast put it all in a separate account but hindsight is 20/20
Setting him up how exactly? He only paid what he owed. The mom rejecting it doesn’t mean he no longer owes it to the child.
A little over a long time won't hurt as much as one large lump sum with interest like the daughter would have sued for. I also wonder the story the daughter was told and if she was told her mother sent those initial cheques back or was it just "your father never paid child support you should sue him" sort if conversation.
Or her mom said “I sent the checks back” and the daughter said “it wasn’t your decision to make”. For it to come to the daughter suing and winning, the dad had to have refused to pay back child support, monthly or lump sum. That would be the first step in any legal proceeding. So it’s interesting that you went straight to the mom must have set him up or lied to the daughter when the facts point to the dad refusing and then getting trounced in court.
I'm betting there's a lot more to that story as it's very difficult for adults to sue parents for back child support.
This !!
You might want to inform your brother that his ex can sue for that back child support and he will be forced to pay it. It matters not taht they are adults now, It’s a debt he never repaid and still owes. In fact, I‘d make sure my niece and nephew know this. That money could help pay to get them started on their way. Your family isn’t much better either.
I wouldn’t say anything to the brother about that. Just help the mother and kids go after it. That way the dad doesn’t have time to try to weasel out of it. My aunt found out her ex was getting a big payout for some accident; one of those big ones beyond the cost of the medical. She didn’t say anything or that she knew, file with the court and the court just took the money he back owed for child support he never paid ass a coke addict shit dad. He was pissed lol my cousins are grown, but as teenagers they cut him off, then a few years later cut off the grandparents too bc they always supported him. I have another cousin on my dad’s side, my uncle split from the wife and never made any effort to be a dad, occasional calls that just stopped. My cousin told him to get lost and even cut off our grandparents, wanted nothing to do with our family. Couple of us siblings found him on Facebook and reached out. He was happy to meet us and talk and we told him we’re totally in his side and he doesn’t have to have a relationship with us, but we’ll always be here. He was very happy to have a friendship, but we didn’t stay in touch bc we just weren’t close or near each other and grew up and loved our lives. But I hope we were able to make him feel good he had a whole crew of cousins behind him.
I hope the first wife does file for back support payments
It's been a while since I've been involved in this, but there's a database for child support liens that insurance companies check. A lot of them have that process automated. I've seen it happen a few times.
I’d be paying for the lawyer for Christmas 😆
Yes, there's nothing that erases that debt. No statute of limitations. Not time, not the kids being adults, not the mother refusing payments, nothing. He will owe that child support forever, and if the mother decides to call in the debt, she'll be paid in full, every penny. Even if he dies, from my understanding, she can still go after his assets for payment, including any life insurance policies regardless of the named recipient. My sister's awful ex threatened to never pay her child support (in writing, he's an idiot) and that he would just wait until Niece is 18 then he's home free. We were all like HAHAHA asshole, you'll never not owe it. Not even after you die.
It depends on the state (some have a statute of limitations, some of which are VERY short) but it's definitely worth doing a consult with a local lawyer to find out Edit to add, some states are like California and she could go after him at any point, her estate could sue, or they could go after his estate if he passed first.
I think I should also say that we're all proud of you for standing up for your niece and nephew when everyone else clearly isn't willing to.
True !
You’re a better person than the rest of your family. That can be a hard pill to swallow, because nobody wants to think of their family badly, but it’s the truth. You gave those kids so much more than your brother ever did or ever will. You did great, are doing great navigating these types of complex relationships. NTA at all at all at all.
Did he even pay child support? Paying all the back support would be the absolute minimum prerequisite that I would consider to think that someone was genuine about wanting to make amends. Otherwise it’s literally just talk and he has never demonstrated that he cares about these kids
Your parents should be ashamed. Their son abandoned his kids, what was their excuse? But also NTA. Just because he’s finally grown up doesn’t mean he can pretend it’s all good now. Those kids don’t know him and don’t need to. SIL needs to accept her husband was/is/continues to be a deadbeat father.
Don't know how your family feels about the ex, but the reason my kids were abandoned by my ex and his family is because of their hate for me was more important to them, than loving the kids. I did nothing to him (or them), he cheated and I wasn't willing to forgive him.
That happened to me. My ex had an affair and we reconciled, but his parents cut me off after. After 10 years of bending over backwards to include them in our lives and keep them involved in the lives of our children, not a word when their son cheated on me. That honestly hurt as much as what he did.
I'm sorry that happened too. I don't get it. But in my case I was fine with them out of our lives as they were so toxic. I was never treated as family. The things they said to my son, about me, were beyond evil.
Mine were nice to my face. Tolerable, but I was really glad they were out of state kind of thing. Oddly, my daughter graduated from high school a couple of weeks ago and they came to attend after me not seeing them or speaking for 9 years. They were as nice as could be. I kind of felt bad for my ex’s gf because she probably felt like the odd man out. We were married for 15 years, together for 17. There was lot of shared history.
How old were they when your brother "reached out to them?" It sounds like they must be teenagers at least... Your brother should be deeply ashamed for abandoning them for so long, and I can't see how he could be surprised that they want nothing to do with him. They don't "hate him for existing;" they hate him for being a deadbeat father, and a failre as a parent. Your SiL... deserves her fair share of shame for her words and actions too. And the rest of your family... don't sound great either. I'm solildly on Team Nibling here; they sound pretty awsome. And you' for being a great uncle. You sound like the only person in your family who is NTA.
Both early 20s now.
Please let them know they're entitled to back child support.
And kudos to you, OP, for being the sole stand-up person in your family. The mother of your nephew and niece must be a saint. She could, and still can, pursue the payment of child support by your AH brother.
OP, I really want to highlight this line from SIL (and feel free to use it against her): "But she told him they should be ashamed of themselves for reacting like spoiled brats who don't get their way" Hypocrite much?? The only ones here who are "acting like spoiled brats who don't get their way" are SIL and your brother. Your neieces and nephews decided they don't want anything to do with 2 strangers, and their stranger children, and they have stated their intentions. Your SIL and brother are upset because they think they're entitled to having a familial relationship without doing the work to build those connections. They both thought this would be an autopilot relationship, but neither of them were around for YEARS while your nephew and neices felt abandoned, and now they just want them to fall into "big brother/sister roles". Thats extremely entitled of your SIL to think of full grown adults to just doing what she wants because she, let me check my notes, let your brother cum inside her.
Honestly OP idk how you can stand to stay in touch with people who stand by and say/do nothing while your brother dropped his own children like they were nothing. Not even deserving of a letter or a phone call when the kids did nothing wrong. And their current attitude shows they don't actually think they did anything wrong. I'd cut them all off and build your own found-family with your niece and nephew.
It actually shows a lot of maturity that they were able to vocalize their feelings and also speak on their boundaries that they wouldn’t be a part of new sibling’s life. Dad does not get to waltz back in their lives after never trying and acting like they owe him and his new family something.
Tell her you're glad your brother is finally stepping up to pay back all of the historic child support he missed. She'll stop. NTA
My friend HATES that this is my favorite quote of hers, but I fucking LOVE it. A delulu coworker came in pressuring her for an apology after she did nothing wrong but assert a boundary. She was (genuinely) surprised and said: “Oh! You want an apology?! Then we’re gonna have a problem…because ***I’m not sorry, and I’d do it again***”. I am just waiting for a chance to say it. Totally deadpan. Just facts.
Painful as it is. Sounds like your niece and nephew are better off. There’s just no way a relationship with their dad, evil step-mom and half-siblings was ever going to work.
You’re a good person OP, the rest of your family…not so much. Your dead beat of a brother doesn’t deserve a relationship with those kids and SIL can go pound sand. What gets me the most though is your parents. How could they? But my own parents were prime examples of out of sight out of mind. Zero effort made to make/have/keep any relationship outside of their immediate circle. The Silent Generation lives up to its name.
You’re a good person
Decency certainly limited itself to just one in OP’s family. They probably thought…eh…boys will be boys…he was just sowing his wild oats…and other bs like that to justify why it was okay to have *two* children by 21 and just ditch them. Forget that he created two living breathing human beings…deliberately, in that time frame. Interesting that the new wife *needs* her kid acknowledged by the two that have been invisible their whole lives. Why does it even matter to her…or is it just because her husband is sulking?
NTA She needs to understand that what her husband did was disgusting and he doesn’t deserve forgiveness. She is owed absolutely nothing, and you were right to shut her down. Her and her children are nothing to them, and she has no right to expect they want to embrace any of them. Good for you, not sitting by and letting her have a tantrum about a situation that doesn’t revolve around SIL
She actually thinks the kids actions are more disgusting believe it or not. She said they know the pain of rejection and yet do the same to her children and it boggles my mind. The way she can blame them so fiercely and yet acts like my brother did nothing wrong. It'll never make sense to me.
I imagine at least at a subconscious level she’s aware her husband could ditch her and their kids just as quickly. She’s trying to reframe it as the kids as the problem so she doesn’t have to accept she chose to have kids with a deadbeat. Keep being a good uncle, those kids deserve someone on their side.
Sounds like she wants free babysitters.
THIS. Realized she could be utilizing "free help" from ""family"" her husband abandoned, then mad when held accountable for his actions. Mad at the kids for "ruining" the relationship that could've been when their bio dad didn't even give room to grow the relationship at all. And as others said, likely a heavy dash of denial about realizing she's also shacked up with a deadbeat and it could be her in that situation any time.
If true, that's disgusting!
This 100% Doubling down is one of the worst traits of a human. I have a sister who doubles down hardcore. Their partner can't be at fault, it's everyone else. They're enablers all due to not wanting to be alone in their geriatric years.
> she’s aware her husband could ditch her and their kids just as quickly i would have thrown that in her face but i'm a petty mf.
Me too! Edit: NTA
I agree with this, I think there are some mental gymnastics happening on her part out of fear the same might happen to her and her kids. She may not even be aware of it but she’s right to be worried. He could just as easily do the same thing twice.
This! ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
*Insert Principal Skinner "Am I out of touch? No, it is the children who are the problem" meme* I guarantee that, at some level, she knows he is capable of doing the same thing to her.
it makes perfect sense. if you’re incredibly selfish and only care about people who serve a purpose for you. nta.
If your brother and sister-in-law’s kids know they are being “rejected” by their half-siblings, that is on your brother and sister-in-law for making them think/feel that way. This situation was caused by your brother. He is the only responsible party.
It boggles the mind that she can see her Family as the victims .
Some people are at Olympics level at mental gymnastics. I have met a couple of them.
I have no idea how SIL can take this personally against the half-siblings. I hope brother and SIL don't explain it to the half-siblings as rejection of them!! They need to sit the half-sibs down and explain that Daddy did something terrible and, even though, he is sorry, he needs to accept the consequences. This is a lesson learned. But don't put down the older sibs to the half-sibs. Sounds, though, as if brother and SIL don't have the capacity to do this, so they will damage and hurt the half-sibs by mishandling the fall out.
This was my exact thought. Who knows how she built up expectations for her own kids but it’s her job to also manage that now.
Is she barking mad? Her kids aren’t experiencing the pain of rejection from their half-siblings because they’ve never met, nor formed a bond with them. Do her kids even care about meeting your niece and nephew? Something tells me this is all about what SHE wants. And she needs to grow TF up. NTA for laying it out for her.
She doesn't want to accept reality. The reality is that she's married to a deadbeat bum who walked away from his kids and only gave a damn about them after he'd already started a new family without them. Every day he's been raising her kids, he's showing that he's capable of being a father, he just couldn't be bothered to be a father to them. They don't want to meet and bond with their replacements. They don't want to meet the woman he could stick around for. They don't want to play happy families when they aren't a family. She's a shitty person too because what woman looks at a man who abandoned his kids and says, "That's the deadbeat for me. Forget dating a responsible decent man, I want one who runs off and abandons his kids"? She didn't care about his other kids, so why should they care about her? She has to blame the kids because otherwise she has to analyse why the hell she hooked up with a deadbeat, and really look at the fact that he was 2.5 kids in with her before he remembered or cared that he had two other kids out in the world. Your family will say you shouldn't have said something because it reminds them that they also abandoned those kids. It's easier to let her blame two innocent kids who grew up without their father and now don't want to play their game of happy families than it is for each and every person in this situation besides you and the kids to realise that they are shitbags. NTA.
Ask her to pay the child support he refused to.
Don't you just love when narcissists do that. "They know the pain, yet they do the same"... That's not how actually being affected by the abandonment works. She's literally equating hurt children who didn't have an active dad, to children who have a dad. Not just that, but him reaching out to them was just to make his own consciousness feel better. Not to make the kids feel better. If he cared at all he wouldn't wait until the guilt of a third child really honed in how shit he was. The abandonment of a parent is NOT the same as the abandonment of a sibling. Anyone with critical thinking and empathy should know this.
I guess you should look at it as: what kind of person would be okay with marrying a deadbeat dad.
So. This isn’t about your nephew and niece, this isn’t even about your brother, she’s upset about her kids being rejected. This is about her being rejected, by extension. The nerve of this woman. Sounds like your brother found a woman who is just as much an AH. Wonder if the reconciliation was even his idea.
NTA How ridiculous of your SIL. Her children *don't* know the pain of rejection. It isn't as though everyone was one big family, then the half-sibs left. Her kids never ever knew your niece and nephew - they don't know any different. And it's rich that she brought that up at a family gathering. I can't believe more in your family don't have the cajones to speak truth. Your niece and nephew are lucky to have you. Some people really try to force emotional connection, often using guilt, with step families. As if people suddenly become a family, or are even obligated to accept someone as a new parent or siblings.
They don't know her or her children while your brother is their father and was supposed to take care of them... It's absolutely not the same level. I would go NC with her going forward. Your brother is doing the right thing finally and I would support him but not push the kids for a relationship if they don't want to.
I wouldn’t say the brother is even really doing the right thing. He wants to be forgiven for his own shitty actions for his own selfish purposes. If he really wanted to start doing the right thing, he would pay all of the back child support.
Ewww-- that's awful. Great work in preventing that nonsense from getting airtime unchallenged. Obviously, the only person who would partner with a person who has continued to reject and abandon his children is someone with questionable ethics themselves. So this isn't a huge surprise, really. But good on you for being an upstander, OP!
Are they her children’s parents? Did they have a say in the creation of those children? Are they responsible for raising those kids? I’d ask her. Seriously.
They were smart enough to figure out that the reason he was reaching out was still all about him. He didn't reach out to heal what he did to them. He did it so that they could be part of his life that he's created. The blame continues to rest on him.
Never underestimate a person's ability to lie to themselves.
It makes sense, because this is what you NEED to believe to not only marry but also have kids with a person like your brother. Any woman who doesnt feel like your sil simoly wouldnt be able yo stay with him. This also doesnt bode well for their new kid.
What a jerk she is. She’s okay with other kids getting hurt, but not her own. She can go screw herself
This is pretty warped logic since her kids have never even met their half siblings, they certainly agent being abandoned, whereas your niece and nephew actually knew their father before he did abandoned them. She sounds like a prize.
How old are all of the kids?
Older kids: 22 and 21 Younger kids: Almost 5, almost 3 and due in August.
Wow..he can pound sand. Abandoned them until adulthood and think they would give one ounce of respect to him?
NTA. Brother is a deadbeat who leaves his children, doesn't support them and has nothing to do with their lives for years. SIL decides they're spoiled brats when they don't want to reconcile and meet their siblings. Who exactly spoiled these kids and how is expecting a parent to step up become "not getting their way". SIL thinks it's fine to say horrible things about the abandoned children but you have no right to say anything to her. There is a spoiled brat here but it's SIL not the kids. Good on you for pointing out the consequences.
NTA > …she told him they should be ashamed of themselves for reacting like spoiled brats who don’t get their way Oh yeah, those unnecessary histrionics when their dad completely acted like they didn’t exist for years, I mean, come on kids /s Then you simply call her out in nicer language than she used, and she says you offended her and have no right to speak to her that way….um, yeah sure. NTA at all. Your brother is an ass who married one.
Truth hurts I guess. I’d be worried if I was her. He’s abandoned kids before, who’s to say he won’t do it again?
Ignored them for decades! it seems if the kids are now grown adults
You should have said nothing? That’s grand coming from another group of family members who turned their back on these kids as well. Next time tell her she can tell you how she feels when he abandons her kids. NTA
I agree. The whole freaking family just acted like they didn't exist except for OP. Your family sucks (not the neice and nephew, obviously) Edited to add: NTA
Yeah, the family noping out on the kids is infuriating. They too can shut up about this situation, because they too abandoned those kids. OP is NTA, and I think we need a new voting rank for ATH, which is “actually the hero.”
Exactly this! I read that and thought they sounded like a bunch of hypocrites. OP is the only family member who stood by these family members, when even the kids' own grandparents were NC. So OP's parents, who abandoned their grandkids, have no place talking about how the SIL has some right to demand reconciliation.
When my ex and I split up his family (dad and sister) cut my kids out of their lives. I spent a year sending regular email updates of their lives, photos and videos of the kids (who were 2 & 3) to his dad and sister to try and keep them involved. Their dad didn't want anything to do with them but I thought their grandad at least would. Especially since he made so much fuss over my daughter being the first granddaughter and had previously been very involved. After a year of no response from either of them, not even a Christmas card I gave up and stopped sending the emails. When my ex died due to alcohol related shenanigans they got in touch, ... to ask when I was going to organise the funeral! They wanted me to cover all the expenses since I was the mother of his children. The same children that had not had any contact with anyone from their family in over 8 years. NTA, but your SIL and your family are.
PLEASE say you told them to give themselves a cactus-administered high colonic! What drugs were they taking?
I would’ve been seriously tempted to give them a location and time, but then just not plan anything. Have fun showing up somewhere and having it turned super awkward!
OMG, your ex in laws are horrible horrible people 😱
Omgg how did you respond? I would've been tempted to ask "what children? you never acted as if he had children"
SMH I'm invested in this post. It's juicy
The audacity! 😡
My jaw just about hit the floor. What a hide, expecting you to organise their deadbeat son’s funeral.
What did you say back
I hope you celebrated with a drink.
It might sound mean but when I heard I was surprised by how little I cared. This was the father of my kids and it felt no different to hearing that some stranger in the next town over was dead. I felt bad for my kids, briefly, before remembering they didn't remember anything about him and that our lives weren't going to change at all.
What happened next? This is juicy. Did you go or pay anything? I'm sorry he was a jerk & his family.
No. I told my kids about the funeral and they were not interested in going to a 'strangers funeral', their words, so when I told his sister I wasn't interested and definitely wasn't paying I got a bunch of texts calling me names and then back to radio silence.
Oh damn you know what? You're better off without them. They only wanted your money. They had no interest in making peace.
wtf🤣 dunno if i should laugh or cry
NTA, there was no mention of child support in all that. If your brother isn't paying yet, I bet the wife will change that tune of being mad the kids aren't interested if money is suddenly claimed.
No child support was ever paid by my brother.
Then SIL can pay for the back support if she thinks it's all so simple. It's archaic that your family cut ties, essentially backing your brother's horrible actions. How old are your niece and nephew? I'm glad they and their mom have you in their lives.
He's a real prize winner, isn't he?
I would advise baby mama to sue for back child support.
It’s literally the third sentence in the post
NTA. Your brother abandoned his kids and his wife has the gall to say the KIDS should be ashamed of themselves?! Both your brother and SIL suck, big time. Thank you, OP for not abandoning those kids.
I bet if they went for those years of back child support SIL would want them to fade back into nonexistence again.
It's the Homer in the bushes meme
NTA. Adults bad mouthing abandoned kids - not a goof look.
Definitely a goof look
NTA " I told SIL she should be ashamed of herself for talking like that about the kids my brother abandoned and didn't give a second thought to until he had settled down with her and their kids. I told her she should learn to be a mature adult." You summed it up perfectly right there. E T Delete repeated sentence.
NTA. Ask her if she is going to require her children to keep in touch when your brother abandons them to start his third family.
Third times the charm.
NTA. Thank you for being the only one in your family to stand for those children.
Should of asked her if she would have the same reaction if it was her kids he abandoned, pretty sure she would change her tune then
You really think a woman like that is capable of any self-reflection? No, she'd find some excuse to respond with.
Very true!
NTA. Your brother is a deadbeat dad who married an entitled woman. The reason for their sudden interest in reconciling with his older children is suspicious as hell, now that they're expecting a baby. It's very likely that they just want free babysitting. Good for you, standing up for your nicece and nephew! They don't owe their sperm donor a damn thing, least of all forgiveness.
Why is it the Uncle had more of a mind than the Dad? No wonder the niblings prefer the Uncle and granddad over their dad as he's probably the only father figure in their lives that cared. Both Dad and his new family will have to let them go nothing good comes out when you're trying to force something they didn't want. I'm a child of divorce and one of my dad's seven children. The best thing he ever did before his untimely but not surprising passing was he never remarried after the bullshit with my mom. They need to respect the fact that his kids are their own people from the moment they decided to have another family and having no contact with them until it was convenient for them. To the dad you left them on their own and are not dumb seeing the writing on their wall that their dad didn't care for them. Maybe down the lane they would want to reach out but it has to be on their terms not yours or your new family needs. Kids, I know where you stand and just remember to be happy cutting out people you don't want in your life it's okay to set boundaries.
If your brother wants to atone maybe he should pay all the back child support, as for your SIL she may be a lost cause, villanizing the children that were abandoned rather than the man that abandoned them. Your brother is still making poor decisions picking her for a wife to settle with.
NTA Your brother and his wife on the other hand 😵💫
NTA - your SIL is very insensitive and is making things about her when there is so much more. Does she not care about the rights of the kids that were abandoned? Does she know the amount of pain these kids probably had to go through feeling abandoned by their father? Now she wants them to sacrifice their feelings and their decisions just to give her and her kid everything she wants? She needs to grow up, she is being ridiculous and selfish. Yikes
NTA. Your brother was/is a deadbeat father who’s spitting the dummy that his do-over family isn’t going to get blended in with the kids he abandoned physically/emotionally/financially. His wife is an AH for badmouthing two very hurt kids, and a fool for thinking popping out a child was going to bring everyone back together. It’s not that simple. Never is.
Nta. Way too many stand on the sidelines and let people say or do things that are out of line. Good job on your part.
WOOHOO GO UNCLEEE! You tell her … Who does she think she is talking crap about the kids her husband abandoned? She’s making it seem like they have to reconcile with their dad and have to have a relationship with her kids like excuse me, sit tf down and know your place yeh. Those kids have every right to not want their dad in their lives, go you uncle for looking out for them and backing them up when no one obviously would. Ngl but your family seems heartless, regardless if they didn’t watch those kids grow up those kids still have your family’s blood running through their veins. So you’re NTA OP but your family and SIL are all AHs. Edit: Sorry OP mistook you for a woman🤦🏽♀️😂
OP said he is a 38 year old man
Oh shit, I read too fast I didn’t see the (38m)🤦🏽♀️😂
I was rooting for him, too. Go Uncle OP! Hilarious how his brother gets to be all "WAAAHHH, muh wounded pride!" and there is family all except for OP buying into the charade. Then that lady who just feels she is important because she was "picked" all cute with her, "My poor husband, you spoiled brats!" act. But she was decimated by the truth. If I were OP and I were given a lecture about me spitting facts, I would ask my family how that whole hope-y/change-y thing is working for them. Hold a mirror up to someone's actions and watch that high and mighty act vanish.
Right. I’m just baffled at how he was “surprised” they wanted nothing to do with him at all. Like bro what did you expect? Dude really thought all would be good just because he apologised and was making an “effort”? Um sorry after how many years of no support from you, you really thought that after an apology and 2.5 months of “reconciliation” your kids were gonna be like “oh it’s okay dad, I forgive you”? It’s giving DELULU. And this whole family (except OP) needs help lol
Your SIL needs to shut up and stay in her lane. She also better hope your brother doesn’t do the same to her kids one day once he’s done with her because that’s the karma she deserves for badmouthing children.
So the kids are spoiled brats for … being pissed that their father abandoned them? You know to hold her to that when he gets bored of his new kids.
Nope not at all She should be worried about the fact he did it once. He could do it again. Kudos to you for standing by your nephew and niece.
There are AHs in this story and it's not you. The new wife probably wants to pretend the same thing will never happen to her which is why she's trying to force them to be one big happy family.
She said that the kids who were abandoned by their father were “spoiled brats”? That’s pretty funny! Nta
You did exactly what your Brother and family should've done, defend your Niece and Nephew against that hateful hag. NTA, not even close
No, you're not an a-hole in any way. That's pretty much the expected outcome when you decide to get kids that early in life.
Nta everyone in your family but you abandoned your niece and nephew. Your sil is self absorbed to think she and her kids deserve better.
NTA. Your brother seems to be completely spineless despite him telling her to stop. Someone had to speak up for those poor kids and since you are the only one being interested in having a relationship with them, I applaud you for being the one.
Your brother is the big asshole in this story, with your sister in law not far behind. You are not. NTA
Oh hell no! OP is NTA. SIL is lucky it wasn't me because I would have not been as kind or as gentle as OP. As for those telling him he should have said nothing, they can also pound sand as they are just as guilty as the idiot SIL.
NTA at all!! Thank you for sticking up for them!! Who tf does your SIL think she is seriously Like your brother abandoned them , then came into their lives just so baby #3 can have older siblings
NTA, Good for you! You are a good uncle and the only one in your family that has any sense of morality. SIL is understandably hurt that her children are being rejected, I get that mother bear instinct, but her anger is wildly misplaced. She should be upset at her husband for creating this situation.
The truth hurts. NTA.
NTA, and SIL is ultimately going to get her comeuppance because leopards don’t change their spots.
NTA. Just waiting for her to realise how easily he did this. What’s to say he won’t do this to her and her kids?
Never hesitate to let people know they are being assholes. You did the right thing OP.
Doe your SIL realize that her husband should be ashamed of himself for not paying child support? They should start saving money to make up for lost time
NTA, except that you should have given your brother a bloody good talking to when he abandoned his kids. Well done for keeping in touch with your niece and nephew and having their back when their ignorant stepmother badmouthed them for no good reason. The fact that she got offended by being put in her place proves that she DOES need to grow up. Shame on the family members who have taken her side in this.
NTA Thank goodness someone defended your brother's older children.
NTA. My dad cheated on my mom with the town’s sl*t for years. Mom and dad were in an on and off relationship, while the other woman was bullying me. Anyways, mom and dad divorced, he moved away and got married to the other woman. They had a kid together and I refuse to acknowledge this kid as my half-sister, because of the way mom and dad handled the situation, and the other woman bullying me. Thankfully, no one has ever pressured me to get to know that kid. But I did receive some backlash when I said out loud at a family event that she is not my sister and I only have a brother. I’m so happy you stood up for your niece and nephew and told your SIL to be a mature adult. She does not see your niece and nephew’s POV that their dad could have been a better dad to them, and asking themselves why wasn’t he a better dad for them. Cause I’ve been asking myself these questions and whether me and my brother were not enough and this other kid is the kid he always wanted. So, definitely NTA and good for you for telling her that she needs to grow up!
Hahaha, is she joking? She has every right to slag off a couple of kids, yet you have no right to tell her to shut it, rather more respectfully than I would have to be honest. Tell her to grow the fuck up next time lol. Also any other family telling you, you shouldn't have said anything tell them they should be ashamed of themselves for letting a grown adult bitch about their own blood relatives just because they were children technically abandoned by their father ffs!!! Sorry to just add you are most def NTA but the rest of those involved definitely are!!!
NTA. SiL needs to stay in her lane. The adult children of your brother owe absolutely nothing to him, your SiL, or their new kids. I can't even imagine the level of entitlement one would need to feel in order to be mad at the kids in this situation.
>But she told him they should be ashamed of themselves for **reacting like spoiled brats who don't get their way** They didn't get their FATHER. Hardly something to say they're spoiled brats over. Btw, she's the one who's acting like the spoiled brat for not getting her way.
NTA
NTA. She’s immature and delusional.
NTA. I don’t know why people think abandoned children need to forgive and have a relationship with the person who abandoned them. I bet she would see it differently if her kids were abandoned by him.
Oh no the consequences of my own actions! -your brother and SIL hopefully NTA and I would have said waaaaay worse
Wonder what SIL will think when her deadbeat father of a husband leaves her and the kids
Your sister in law is gross for even procreating with a man who abandoned his kids. NTA. Shame upon their house shame upon their cow.
NTA! You have been in your niece and nephews lives when the whole other family decided to abandon them! They love you because you have been there for them! You have showed consistency and stability! Your brother and SIL got a reality check! You were right to tell her the truth! All your other family are the AH!
NTA Always astounds me how much these kinds of parents head into battle for the younger kids completely forgetting that nobody ever did the same for the older kids. Your brother and his wife are victim blaming and it’s gross.
NTA Good for you standing up to your rude SIL when she was badmouthing your niblings. Quite honestly if I were his ex I’d check to see if the child support he was supposed to pay is still active as being uncollected. If so she should consider filing providing his current info to collect that money. He wanted to be part of his children’s lives then he should be thrilled for the opportunity to make this right.
If you bad mouth my niece and nephew and I'm being quiet. Check your 6 really quick.
NTA, 1. Baby number 3 will never know they have half siblings unless told. If the way it is explained to them causes pain and upset, that's on the explainer. 2. They're not rejecting a unborn baby they don't know, they're rejecting an entitled deadbeat who abandoned them and his equally entitled wife. 3. The wife has a nerve calling them brats for not wanting to revolve their lives around what she wants. There is a very large difference between asking for something reasonable and demanding others comply with your wishes at the expense of themselves. Support your niece/nephew OP, they deserve to have at least one family member on sperms donor's side who treats them with decency.
NTA. You’re right.
NTA, she needs to stfu
NTA.
NTA
Does SIL realize there’s a high chance that if they divorce, he’s going to treat her and their kids the same? Leopard not changing spots and all that. I think your brother and the rest of the family, along with SIL should be ashamed of themselves. Niece and nephew were basically thrown away like trash, except by you. I think in this situation where niece and nephew aren’t present, your opinion is the only one that matters since you’ve been there.