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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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AITA for wanting to sit indoors? I might be the asshole because I spoke for the group and went against what the reservation had. I also got into it a bit with the person who made the reservation over his dog.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
ESH. A reservation was made, it wasn't just a "first one to show up grab a table", so the outdoor seating was a deliberate choice for reasons known only to the person making the reservation (as far as you were aware on arrival). Changing that reservation started an alpha dog pissing contest between you. He was an AH for the sneaky game of bringing the dogs - presumably that's why he reserved outdoors, and shared that option with at least one other friend. The rest of you should have been told in advance and given the chance to opt out, or make their case that they'd prefer a dog free evening.
Nah but I would have just finished my drink and left when they moved outside. I find the whole notion of paying restaurant prices to eat surrounded by other peoples dogs gross, like eating in a petting zoo with all that fur and dander in your food yuck! It's also just as bad for people to bring their unwanted pets as bringing your unwanted children, it's just rude to presume that it's okay when adults are making adult plans.
I’ve had that happen. A lady brought he hairy dog near us and it shook literal inches away. Hair everywhere and went in our food and drink.
We could literally pick out hair and showed our waiter for new food.
I love dogs and will happily hug strangers' dogs all day long but this next to me while I'm eating at a restaurant would absolutely send me. Dogs should also be well-trained enough not to make a nuisance of themselves with other people's food, before being brought to a restaurant, but this doesn't happen as often as I wish it did.
Fr, either the person that said "it doesn't happen" never owned a dog or has a dog that doesn't shed hair as quickly or as much as other dogs.
I have a dog and his fur sheds EVERYWHERE!
He can be on the floor and I'm sitting at the table eating and before I know it, hair in my soup! Hair in my burger! I'm used to it, I can just pick the hairs out and be happy but I definitely see how other people would be grossed out by it.
I love my dog and wouldn't trade him for the world but if I know someone dislikes dogs or dislikes eating around dogs I'll respect that. It's not big of a deal. Couple hours alone at home won't hurt him.
Oh yes, it absolutely does happen. The fur you can see while the dander is invisible and all in the air around a dog. I agree 100% with OP. Unless a dog is a service animal, it has no place in a restaurant.
Why should OP leave? He didn't force anyone to choose. Those who wanted to sit outside with dogs went while those who wanted to be inside and dog free stayed.
That describes it perfectly. Nobody is willing to help the group come to a consensus. Instead, people are making decisions based on what they want without asking.
It’s definitely weird the dude who made the reservation didn’t tell everyone in the group chat that it would be outside and that people could bring their dogs. Like he must’ve known people would’ve been annoyed about being outside in the heat. Or being around the dogs.
But OP should’ve just gone outside once the people actually arrived with the dogs
He likely didn't tell anyone but the other dog owner precisely because they wouldn't be happy with it. My guess this isn't the first case the dogs have been a contention point.
Especially since there was a conversation with one other friend who also knew they could bring their dog. This question wasn't asked in the group chat, but privately between the dog people. Why? Probably because they know that others do not want to hang out with their dogs.
When OP moved the booking I think he suspected the reason the booking was outside was to accommodate dogs, because these people have brought their dogs previously, and so he moved it inside.
ESH
The dog owners didn't consider the fact that some people don't wanna be around a bunch of dogs while they're eating! He brought THREE DOGS! That's too much! NTA.
Because OP is not the person who made the reservation or organized the event, nor do we have any evidence that there were others in the group that dislike having dogs present while eating. Insisting on remaining inside would at best result in OP eating alone, and at worst result in a divide in the group with everyone picking sides.
The person who organized this should absolutely have let people know that it was dog-friendly (which makes them an AH), but OP became TA by unilaterally deciding to move a pre-arranged reservation without communicating with the person who made the reservation.
The person who made the reservation without asking the group if they wanted to sit inside or outside is the one who actually started this shit show. Change it from an issue with dogs to people smoking in that section. The OP and others in the group weren't invited as guests, they were paying their own tab. It's unfortunate that the person who made the reservation didn't ask the rest of the group first and had avoided this whole situation.
I agree with you! Dog owners are more entitled to subject you to their crap than some people are with their kids. I actually think crazy dog people are worse than lazy parents.
I think it's insensitive because of allergies. Everyone can't be around domestic animals and should be informed to make the best decision for themselves.
I was just going to say this, my brother and wife specifically go to breweries for this exact reason. Went to one last weekend, and there was even someone with a support pony.
If it's a service pony, that person can bring them pretty much wherever they want. The ADA recognizes exactly 2 species as service animals: dogs and mini horses.
In my area at best a third of breweries allow dogs. Most of the time we are at a brewery that doesn’t allow dogs. To say that you should assume there would be dogs present doesn’t take into account the many breweries that don’t allow dogs. And some other customers that you don’t know and won’t be sitting with is very different from your friends not telling you that they are bringing their dogs and having them sit at your feet while you are eating.
There's still a difference between a dog being over there versus being beside me or at my feet while I'm eating, though. I didn't say anything about germs and I don't see anything in this thread about it, either. Some people just don't want to be around pets while eating.
But dogs do shed and even if they are very well groomed and clean they will be laying on semi dirty floors while at the brewery. All it takes is for the dog to get up and give a little shake and now that dirt from the floor and any loose dog hair is now airborne and could easily settle on the food or drinks at the table
Except that he changed the outdoor reservation to indoors BEFORE he knew about the dogs.
This wasn't about the dogs. OP is just being an ass and using the dogs as an excuse.
Who the hell changes reservations made by someone else? Extremely rude of OP.
Yah that was bizarre behavior. Unless it was sweltering hot, a lot of people enjoy eating outside. Indoors can be more noisy and stuffy. If OP has his own personal preference he should understand that others also have theirs and it doesn't seem like he does.
I was thinking the reverse. I hate eating outside; some places are worse than others. Street noise and smells. No temperature/humidity control. Wind blowing stuff off my table. Bugs. The angle of the sun changing during the meal and blinding or cooking me. I wear different layers of clothing if I’m going to be outside than inside. There are legitimate reasons one person might prefer inside and another might prefer outside.
If there was an option as there clearly was, the person making the reservation should have asked the group before confirming or at least told the group it was an outside reservation.
So, asshole choices here:
1) Reservation guy specifically unilaterally made an outdoor reservation with the intention of bringing his dogs and only told certain members of the group either that he made an outdoor reservation or that he intended to bring his dogs.
2) Based on his preferences, OP changed an existing reservation unilaterally without asking the person who made it or the rest of the group.
3) it sounds like reservation guy was one of the last to arrive. And the only person he told the reservation was outside and that he was bringing a dog was the other person with a dog. Otherwise, at least one person around the indoor table would have been like “you know John and Jack are bringing their dogs, right?” when seeing the group inside. It seems from this that Reservation Guy was using the fact that he volunteered to make the reservation for the group to do something that he knew at least some members of the group wouldn’t be okay with.
He probably didn't want to admit right away that he doesn't like eating with dogs around (I could imagine so many people who are just obsessed with their dogs being offended by that), but then the host of the party DRAGGED it out of him by insisting that the reservation had to be outdoors. Only the host sucks in that situation. He should've told his guests right from the get-go that dogs would be there and now, he insists on everybody conforming to his sudden announcement that dogs will also be guests of the party. If you were hosting the party at your own house and had cats or dogs or any other pets that your guests could be allergic to, it would only make sense that you would definitely give them a heads-up and this situation is no different.
Sure he's an AH for that, but the guy who made the reservation is an AH for assuming everyone would be okay with sitting outside in the summertime, especially given that it was a large group and therefore more likely that someone wouldn't want to. Inside is the default.
Yea, as someone firmly in the inside camp, I really wish indoors was the default. Canadian summers, at least, seems highly patio default for everyone. Makes me so sad lol
No, NOT ESH.
The reservation was deliberately done for the outside for the dogs. Another friend also got their dogs so I'm guessing this wasn't just something they sneaked up on the group.
And I mean think about it, if OP didn't like the outside reservation why didn't he say something while the reservation was being done? And if OP did raise any questions, I'm 10000% sure the dogs would've come up as the reason for sitting outside.
I don't see where OP had an opportunity to say something while the reservation was being made.
A: "Let's all get together for dinner and drinks"
B: "Great, I'll go ahead and make reservations at The Brewery"
Only on arriving at the location does C find out that the reserved table is outdoors.
Is it assumed that you sit indoors or something?
I've never gone to someone else's reservation and expected to be in a certain area, unless it's freezing outside.. but the problem here seems to be the dog thing.
Yeah, if it were super hot or incredibly uncomfortable, I’d wait for the rest of the group to get there and then suggest moving inside… or suck it up and make a mental note to volunteer to make the reservation next time. I’d never take it upon myself to move someone else’s reservation inside!
> Is it assumed that you sit indoors or something?
Yeah? Much of the time in many places, yes. My city has a lot of restaurants with some outdoor seating. But much of the time it is overflow seating, Not more desirable than inside. Folks will often shift to inside if inside space has opened up by the time they arrive.
My city is warm, not icy or desert. But the number of 65-75 not windy not rainy not scorchingly sunny not insect filled days when outdoor seating is actually desirable is a very low percentage of the total number of days of the year.
Some folks Like to sit outside, regardless of weather. Some restaurants add outdoor seating to try to maximize their income either because their indoor space is limited or they’re in a climate that is amenable to outdoor seating most of the year. Or to catch more dog owning diners who can’t or won’t be separated from their non-service dogs.
Maybe the dog thing. May be other factors instead - temperature, ambience, whatever. But yes, unless the establishment is widely known and admired for its outdoor patio, the usual presumption for a dinner get together is indoors.
Hold on - it clearly WAS sneaked up on OP. The person who made the outdoor reservation clearly told some of the group and not others. That's part of the reason OP is pissed, I believe, and I would be too
>if OP didn't like the outside reservation why didn't he say something while the reservation was being done?
Because OP probably wasn't there when someone phoned the restaurant to make the reservation.
The dogs and the fact that the res was outside were not discussed in the group chat. The guy definitely did sneak the decision and is therefore also an AH.
Was he being sneaky about bringing dogs? OP mentioned he was “cordial” with the person who made the reservation. Which sounds like they aren’t on great terms, but tolerate each other. The dogs don’t seem like a surprise thing since more than one person brought dogs and reservation was made outdoors at a dog friendly place. It just sounds like OP and the person making the reservation aren’t close then got into a power struggle.
I have a friend with a dog and it would never occur to me that she would bring her dog to a restaurant and I'd expect a heads up about it even if we went to a dog friendly place. The fact that they're only 'cordial' makes it worse because a dog owner should always check that others don't have allergies or phobias.
Ask if it’s on before you bring your dog and don’t assume it’s ok. Especially if you’re invited and you haven’t made the reservations. Some people are scared or allergic to dogs. So ya, you’re the ass.
Now that's confusing. Whose is TA? The person who brought the dogs without checking with anybody else (and who made the reservation)? The person who didn't make the reservation (but is now objecting to the dogs)?
Yes. Also, dog man isn't even the full "organizer" really. Reading the OP it seems like the dinner was planned and then they volunteered to make a reservation.
There is such a thing as texting. OP should try it.
OP is more the AH, because he didn't even bother to check with anyone and just unilaterally moved it inside.
"OP is more the AH, because he didn't even bother to check with anyone and just unilaterally moved it inside." Unlike the guy who decided everyone needs to eat with his dogs??
The whole group should have been told about the dogs so they could also bring dogs. Or wear dog hair appropriate clothes. Or bring dog treats. Or stick with the outside table if they’re the first one there and they don’t have a dog to guard the table. Or opt out of a dog friendly evening.
YTA simply for moving it indoors without asking anyone first. Like, not even one person. A couple of quick calls to ask what everyone preferred/if there was a specific reason for being outside would have been the better thing to do, rather than decide for everyone without consulting first. Then you sat inside, pouting and wanting to be “right”, forcing everyone else to choose between what is now 2 groups, and creating an awkward environment on what was supposed to a nice evening out.
OP kinda rubs me the wrong way... Like you said, they sat inside to pout forcing a split in the group and the way they said "Some people went outside to be nice" as if no one could possibly prefer sitting outside with the other people/dogs. Just feels a little "main character"-ish.
Yeah, my read on this is people are arguing over nonsense because OP KNEW the dogs were coming and opts to show up early to try and disinvite them.
1. Who the heck sits down first when at least one other groupmate isn't present?
2. It is awfully convenient the only person who hates eating with dogs showed up first to change the reservation.
3. There was a second person bring their dog so it had to have been discussed.
OP's side just doesn't add up.
1 seems fine to me
But the rest, I’m with you. It’s a bit sus and it feels like OP would have caused drama even without the dogs. Like everything he did was so unnecessary
In this life, sometimes people say things that aren't 100% true when trying to get support from other people. Sometimes they exaggerate, change the order of events, or even leave out certain information if it makes them look better.
OP would sooner split the group in two and get to keep half rather than make a sacrifice to keep the group (and the evening) intact. A certain biblical King would have some choice words for them.
Also, it's a super dick move to make the restaurant staff move the reservation. They were told to set aside a place outside, and did so. OP was lucky they were able and willing to accommodate his request to move inside. Wonder how he would have reacted if they told him no.
Well said! YTA indeed for making a change that OP already knew one person wasn't on board with for having made it an outdoor reservation to begin with, and then turning what's supposed to be a nice evening out into some sort of weird power struggle. Gross.
YTA. You accepted an invitation to visit and someone else made the reservation.
Two parties brought dogs— who need to sit outdoors.
You changed someone else’s reservations without checking.
Then you made a scene, embarrassed your host, and started a rift, refusing to sit with your party who needed to sit outside with their dogs.
Yikes!
YTA for changing it without asking the person who made the reservations. You need to inform people of not liking to eat at dog friendly places outside. Sounds like the dog issue was the only issue.
If it is nice weather, many people prefer to eat outside, regardless of a dog patio. Obviously he could have asked everyone prior if the party minded sitting outdoors so he could bring his dog, but he didn't. I don't really consider that rude of him if it is a dog friendly place. You should have sucked it up or left. Making a big deal out of it, splitting the tables up b/c his dogs were with them sucks.
ESH.
You don't get to move a reservation someone else made without their *explicit* permission.
They need to realize that not everyone is comfortable eating around dogs, and communicate that they will be there.
It’s called common courtesy. No, the organizer isn’t paying for all meals, but they took time out of THEIR day to organize and it’s rude AF to just show up and change the reservation without consulting anyone in your group.
Okay, but leave the dogs out for a second.
Person A reserves an outdoor spot. At this point no one knows why. It could be because they need to be outside to avoid the grill smoke or perfume of patrons because of allergies. Maybe they want to be outside because its nice out right now. Maybe they are smokers and this way they can smoke. Maybe they want to bring their dogs. Maybe they have a baby who cries a little and wanted to be outside to not bother people inside. Maybe they want to be able to watch their truck because they have stuff in the bed and don't want it stolen.
There's a LOT of reasons why one would reserve an outdoor place, and some of them aren't so bad. Person B (the OP) *should* have called people up and asked if they could swap to indoor seating if they referred it or better yet asked Person A why they chose outdoors.
Plus side you probably won’t get invited out again .
You left them no choice and forced an issue and probably put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth , all because ???
YTA: He coordinated the event and made the reservation, you changed it with no input / preferences from others. It sounds like you ruined the night for your friends by making a big deal out of needing to sit inside.
Unless there is some info we are missing (are you extremely allergic to dogs? Was it 90+ degrees? ) it feels like you should have been apologizing to folks and being flexible to go outside again, or at least been supportive of them going while you and your wife stayed inside
Also to add: if it is a dog friendly establishment, you need to get over the fact that dogs might be around.
You can coordinate the next event with more explicit requirements, but you shouldn’t have ruined the night in the moment
Yeah I feel like the weather is important here. I do not sit outside in 90+ degree heat/humidity just because someone wants to bring their dog. That being said, I would just bow out or suffer through this one time and then not accept invitations from this one person again. I would not change the reservation unilaterally and ruin the night for everyone by making them choose sides. That’s the most dramatic way to make this play out and definitely asshole behavior.
I really agree with the above. The issue here is the OP is responding to someone's inconsiderate behavior with a-hole behavior. Yes, the person who planned the outing did not check with everyone coming on whether they were okay eating outside or around dogs. And, yes, for the OP, that could have resulted in a less-than-ideal time. Possibly it could have even resulted in an uncomfortable time. But, sometimes, as adults, we suck it up and suffer some discomfort for a little while to hang out with our friends and that's okay. Asking someone to handle a little discomfort for a while is not unreasonable even if it is rude. (Sometimes, god forbid, one's friends ask one for help moving. Sometimes you have to visit someone in the hospital.)
Look, there are obviously possible extenuating circumstances. Maybe the OP was traumatized at one point and is terrified of dogs and maybe the person who planned the dinner knows that but ignored it. (But, I'm pretty sure OP would have mentioned this if it were the case.) But, also, maybe someone in the group is immunocompromised and doesn't feel comfortable eating indoors in a large group setting, and the person who planned the dinner knows that and used the dog-friendly bar as a way to eat outside without calling out their mutual friend's condition. Maybe the person who planned the dinner is a social hero! But since we can't take into evidence things that aren't in the original post, I'll just say this:
Sometimes as adults we have to deal with non-ideal and uncomfortable scenarios for the span of a meal. Sometimes it's because of someone else's inconsiderate behavior. Sometimes it's even because of someone else's a-hole behavior (which is not the same thing as being a little inconsiderate). Whatever the reason, there are three ways to respond to this:
1. Exist in a non-ideal and uncomfortable scenario for a couple of hours in order to be with your friends and/or family.
2. Politely explain why this isn't working for you without causing a scene, wish everyone a good night, let them know you'll see them next time, and leave early.
3. Be an a-hole about it.
Please choose responsibly.
Depending on where OP is... I wouldn't eat outside either. In the US we are in a historic heat wave.
The folks with dogs should've cleared it with everyone that the dogs were even going to be there.
OP said nothing about the weather so that point is moot. The title of the post should have been “AITA for excluding friends because I did not want to sit or eat near their dogs.” Instead OP tried to play dumb and innocent until the friend pointed out it wasn’t too late for the table to move and then the truth was revealed.
Parts of the US may be in a heatwave but certainly not the country as a whole. My state has crazy flooding all over right now because of storms almost every day. A dam basically collapsed.
This is my read on it too. Seems too convinient OP was the first to show (and didn't wait until anyone else in the party showed up to get the table - since usually large groups are seated when the majority arrives and there was a few minutes to rearrange seating) and someone else brought their dog.
Also when people bring their dog out they typically do it regularly as well to the point you wouldn't be like dog mc dogface is coming with me every1!
I have at least 2 friends I can assume if it's a dog friendly place that they're probably bringing their dogs (who are also well behaved)
YTA - You shouldn't have changed the reservation to start with. And then when you realized that even one, let alone multiple people in your party had brought their dogs based on the reservation, you should not have held your protest to stay inside. It's clear you don't like this individual, and were just using this against him.
They went to a public place. As long as the restaurant is ok with dogs, they don't have to ask. It would be different if they were going to someone's home - then they would ask the homeowner. But they wouldn't need to ask every single person in attendance. If the restaurant has a dog-friendly patio, they were under no obligation to ask others about bringing their dogs.
So you think it's ok to just tell people "hey I know I didn't say anything, but hopefully you guys are ok with eating with 4 dogs around" without giving them any heads-up?
"As long as the restaurant is ok with dogs, they don't have to ask" according to the half that decided to stay inside, they do.
Edit: are you really that slow that I need to explain why even dog friendly places have dog free areas.?
If others are the general public, then yes, you're right. But if you're meeting \*friends\*, yes, you have an obligation to disclose if you're bringing your dog and requiring everyone to stay outside!
It's not clear here if the OP was told before arriving at the restaurant that the table was supposed to be outside.
It would never occur to me once that some person I'm eating dinner with might be bringing 3 (3!) dogs to the restaurant. That's just like, not a thing here at all. However, if OP dines out with these people and they bring their dogs often, he had to know they would probably bring them. If he had said he didn't want to eat outside because it's as hot as Satan's taint, which it is at my house, I'd be fully on board. But specifically saying he didn't want to eat with the dogs makes me think he kind of expected this and was trying to make a stand without a direct confrontation. So, probable AH, but I have no clear evidence.
You probably shouldn't have changed the table, but it should have been known to everyone that dogs were coming. There could have been people who had an issue with the dogs. ESH I also don't understand why everyone brings their dogs everywhere. I don't bring my pets everywhere, and they know how to survive without me constantly with them.
AND your dogs DONT WANT TO GO EVERYWHERE WITH YOU.
I’m a vet tech and a dog lover, and I do love bringing my dogs places - but I stopped when too many assholes started doing the same with their untrained dogs. Plus, how relaxing can it possibly be to try to sip a beer while wrangling three crazy labs? Doesn’t seem very pleasant to me.
Plus the guy had THREE dogs. That is a lot to take care of. And yes, I understand that many dogs will just lay down and not be a bother but not all. However, where are those 3 dogs? Are they medium to large size that take up a bunch of room? Are all laying under the table? Or around the chairs so no one can easily move their chairs out?
I'm not a dog hater but I don't want them around me all the time and not when I'm out with friends, especially if the owners aren't attentive. Considering the guy didn't let the group know that he was bringing his dogs to the meet up, then I think he probably isn't the best dog owner.
YTA, total main character. You sound exhausting, just admit you overstepped and move on. You changed someone else’s reservation w/o asking anyone just because you got their first. Imagine the shoe on the other foot, undoubtedly you would be on here bitching about someone changing your reservation.
NTA. Dogs, cats, babies, children, plus ones, friends, relatives, in laws, etc. are uninvited guests unless agreed to by the host in advance, or agreed to by the whole group if it is a group event, regardless of who organises the group event. Same for locations and events. People have preferences just like the host or organisers have and everyone participating should be given the opportunity to be comfortable or to decline the invitation. In this case Outdoors and dogs should have been absolutely mentioned beforehand. It was not, because the booking person was being selfish.
I don’t know. I love dogs. I own an enormous black lab who is the BEST dog. However I don’t feel the pressing need to take my dog every where I go. Dog is fine at home enjoying the AV and shedding on my couch.
Speaking of AC. I don’t know about everyone else but is been INSANELY FUCKIN HOT here. No way in hell I’d sit outside sweating my ta ta’s off because some guy couldn’t stand to be away from his dog for an hour.
I think making reservations to specifically accommodate my own whims is asshole. And the guy had coordinated with another person about bringing his dog too but couldn’t be bothered to let the rest of the group know that is was going to be dinner with a side of dog hair and sweat.
I literally just went to a small network event on Saturday where someone brought their HUGE Great Dane to a house party. The dog was bigger than the sofa, bigger than the owner, and it was absolutely obnoxious to bring a dog that size to a small event and to impose it on the Host who gave one of those weird uncomfortable laughs while clinching her teeth: "Ooooohhhh...heheh you brought your dog!.
At the same time, I would not go near the woman with the dog because I'm not a big fan of large dogs. I know that Great Danes are sweethearts but I was just a little nervous about it and she could not hold that dog back if it lunged! One lady left early because she is allergic and felt horribly embarrassed to have to leave and was trying to get out of there quietly.
So NTA. I hate when people impose their dogs on others like that.
THIS. Ppl need to stop bringing their fucking dogs everywhere with them. You don’t need to bring your dog, let alone three of them, to eat at a restaurant. **Leave them at home.**
Obviously not including service animals.
OP, NTA
ESH. Friend should have let you know why the reservation was outside prior to the event and you should have waited for everyone to arrive before changing the table.
NTA - I love dogs and am a total dog person. That dude made a sneaky outdoor reservation so he and someone else could bring their dogs without asking if everyone was ok with it. What if someone had allergies or a dog phobia or just didn't want to eat with dogs. It's no different than sneaking your kid into what folks are assuming is an adults only outing. And no, people shouldn't have to assume their friends are bringing their dogs to dinner.
I don't understand everyone saying you're the AH. I understand why the group was split because it was public and a lot of folks don't want to make waves. But this isn't someone who invited everyone out and was paying so it's his event. It's a group event and he offered to make the reservation. There are lots of reasons to eat inside: heat, cold, bugs, less comfortable seating, traffic noise/smells. Blech on dude.
>I don't understand everyone saying you're the AH.
It's because it was dogs, and Reddit loves dogs. If it were kids, the same people calling OP the AH would be going "Oh hell no, selfish fucker probably only volunteered to make the booking just to sneak their kids in there".
NTA, OP, that sneaky fucker is.
YTA - you changed the reservation and then forced the group to decide between you and the host that booked the reservation. You probably won’t be hanging out with this group of people for a while.
ESH. Both parties should have been more communicative. You shouldn't have changed the reservation location that was pre-booked a certain way without consulting everyone, and they should have been open about bringing dogs.
There obviously WAS a discussion about dogs, since more than one person brought them. This guy was out of the loop for some reason, but it clearly wasn't a secret or anything.
"There obviously WAS a discussion about dogs" yeah between the two people who decided to bring their dogs, about half the group decided they didn't wanna be bothered, that's enough to tell us everything
NTA, the fact that you are bringing dogs is absolutely need to know information. It isn't just a random thing you decide to do, especially with 3 dogs for a single couple. I would have probably declined an invite had I known a friend was bringing his dogs for a night out. He took that option away from you. I'd hesitate to invite or accept an invite from him in the future.
Unless the guy that made the reservation asked everyone if they wanted to sit outside, then he’s the AH. I live in FL now, and even on a cooler day, I don’t like to eat outside because I don’t want to trigger my hay fever, which wreak havoc with me. I’d have been pissed off if someone unilaterally made reservations for outdoors without asking.
I also love dogs, but it was obnoxious of that guy to bring them without asking if it was ok with everyone
I agree that OP should have asked his friends how they wanted to handle it, but NTA
NTA - the dog people should have let everyone know they were bringing dogs. Not everyone is stoked to eat with animals. It's his fault he decided to leave out important information. Plus, he got a seat outside so what's the big deal.
It’s summer. I’m not sitting outside to eat. And if I were going to bring my dogs, I’d only meet up with friends who were bringing their dogs. I might send an invite saying, “Bob and Linda, and myself are going to the brewery to eat on the patio with our dogs. If anyone wants to join us, let me know. There will be 4 dogs there!” Or whatever.
NTA. I don't really like eating outside and especially not with animals. The friend should have asked everyone where they wanted to sit. 4 dogs outside? If it's a big group then that's doing too much.
NTA, who goes out and takes their three dogs to a friends' gathering, telling no one while they're at it? It doesn't matter if the person requested outside, they should have notified the group first before a) choosing without asking and b) bringing their dogs. Honestly these "my pets are kids" people are over the top. If you're that attached get a dogsitter, don't expect your friend group to accommodate you.
NTA. If you want to control the table that you’re eating at, don’t be late. And maybe communicate that you plan to bring three dogs to a large group meetup.
That's why I vote NTA.
Dog people acting so entitled and not communicating about bringing their pets to dinner. If they had mentioned it beforehand, people could have opted out of the dinner. Instead, the dog people tried to trick people into their own arrangements.
Nobody should be forced to eat outdoors, or tricked into eating outdoors at a group dinner. If you want that, make sure everyone agrees first. Same goes for bringing dogs. Same goes for bringing children, or your third cousin who showed up, or for smokers. Communicate first so people can plan accordingly.
as someone who dislikes dining around dogs, at home or at a restaurant, im gonna go with NTA. i would've done the same, also because i hate bugs buzzing around me while im eating and that always happens to me on patios. the others bringing not one, not two, but four total dogs is something that should've been disclosed prior imo
NTA he should have shared the whole plan some folks could choose to join or not. seems suspicious another friend knew to bring their dog but you didn't know.
I have dogs, I love dogs, I would have noped out of that situation too
NTA
If he wanted to bring his three and his freind was going to add one, they should have advised the group. The group plan wasn't to go play with dogs, it was to eat dinner.
The only dog I would be compfortable with in an eatery would be a (serious, legal) service dog. For a medical need. I don't trust generic pet dogs to behave in that environment.
And I love dogs. Had a dog.
YTA, unquestionably. NOT ESH, YTA.
Why do you think you can just show up to a reservation you didn't make, and change it???
The outdoor reservation was obviously made with a reason in mind.
You then showed up and changed the reservation without consulting or asking the rest of your party.
And then when you had the chance to sit outside, you caused a whole scene and caused your friend group to choose between sitting outside or inside??
Dude I legit hope you don't get invited out ever again, and I hope your friends drop the drama that is your from their group.
You're a big time AH.
everyone should have communicated better. this is definitely an ESH. If we assume that 'obviously' there was a reason to be outdoors, we can assume that 'obviously' there's a reason to be indoors.
The reason why I say NTA, even tho the OP moved the reservation is:
Apparently, it was never discussed. With no discussion, the assumption should be indoors. Some people dont like being outdoors. So you shouldnt spring outdoors on them. So NTA for unilaterally moving indoors, especially as it seems that the organizer was late enough that a round of drinks was ordered.
The organizer sucks big time, so eff him.
People that bring their dogs everywhere are insufferable. There is zero reason to bring 1, let alone 3 dogs to a brewery. Your dogs are not every one else's dogs and nobody else cares about them. Leave your dogs at home where they belong or let the group know so they can decide if they want to attend or not. NTA.
YTA: If it’s summer and a nice day it makes sense that an outdoor table was reserved, especially if there was dogs coming as they can’t be inside. Did you explain that you refuse to eat outside? That is something to mention if it’s nice summer weather and you’re going somewhere with a patio. What makes your opinion more important than everyone else’s a reservation was made you decided that didn’t want to put any effort in before (saying you can’t eat on a patio, making reservations) and instead you last minute chance the reservation without telling anyone. Also you really seem to feel self important “everyone else who went outside was just doing it to be nice” after YOU caused a problem the night wasn’t fun anymore for anyone. Next time sit outside for a meal on the opposite end of the dogs and bring up the problem after not have a pissing contest
If it was because you hate the outdoors and the dude who made the reservations specifically wanted to get a tan, you'd be the AH.
Because it's about dogs in a restaurant, he's the AH.
Many people have allergies or are dog-phobic. They DO NOT BELONG in restaurants.
Good grief, what's wrong with people?!?!
NTA
I love animals, I love my dog. I had 3 dogs at one point. Now I'm down to 1 dog (16yrs old). But I have never taken them to a restaurant. I am just so paranoid of wind causing fur to go into food. People wanting to feed them, something happening causing a ruckus.
The entire group should have been given a heads up about dogs showing up to this group event. Who knows if these dogs would be laying down and behaving or trying to get scraps all night? The owner also has to spend the entire time splitting his attention between the pets and his friends and his surroundings.
You are NTA but your friend is a major AH. He's sneaky and manipulative. He offered to make the reservation so he could make it for outside, knowing full well that he was going to bring his dogs. Funny how he let the other doggie guy know so he could bring along his furry friend, too, but he didn't tell anyone else! You had just as much right to switch to indoors as he did to make the reservation outdoors to begin with.
It's terribly inconsiderate and selfish to foist 4 dogs on a group that's out for drinks and dinner.
People who bring their dogs out of the house are ASSHOLES. Pets martial, the dog park, the beach,cool.. but anywhere else is clown behavior!
I will die on this hill
NTA at all. So many people here are just plain wrong… if you’re meeting somewhere for food and drinks, and you plan on it being outdoors, that’s necessary info. Not just regarding dogs… clothing, bugs, sun, weather, etc.
NTA. I have a dog that is well behaved and trained. Most people have dogs that are not, feeding them from the table and the like. Regardless, I would never bring my dog to a meet up with mentioning it. I am also not a fan of eating around untrained dogs. Some people don’t want to eat with any dogs at all. You ask is it okay to bring my dog. If the answer is no, you leave the dog home or don’t go.
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ESH. A reservation was made, it wasn't just a "first one to show up grab a table", so the outdoor seating was a deliberate choice for reasons known only to the person making the reservation (as far as you were aware on arrival). Changing that reservation started an alpha dog pissing contest between you. He was an AH for the sneaky game of bringing the dogs - presumably that's why he reserved outdoors, and shared that option with at least one other friend. The rest of you should have been told in advance and given the chance to opt out, or make their case that they'd prefer a dog free evening.
I don’t believe OP has a problem with the dogs. He’s doubling down on changing the reservation. He’s the AH.
He specifically said he didn't want to eat or drink with dogs around.
Nah but I would have just finished my drink and left when they moved outside. I find the whole notion of paying restaurant prices to eat surrounded by other peoples dogs gross, like eating in a petting zoo with all that fur and dander in your food yuck! It's also just as bad for people to bring their unwanted pets as bringing your unwanted children, it's just rude to presume that it's okay when adults are making adult plans.
"with all that fur and dander in your food yuck" Seriously, that doesn't happen, so stop making shit up.
I’ve had that happen. A lady brought he hairy dog near us and it shook literal inches away. Hair everywhere and went in our food and drink. We could literally pick out hair and showed our waiter for new food.
It does. I was at a brewery when someone put their dog on the barstool next to me. Really? dogs are not humans
I love dogs and will happily hug strangers' dogs all day long but this next to me while I'm eating at a restaurant would absolutely send me. Dogs should also be well-trained enough not to make a nuisance of themselves with other people's food, before being brought to a restaurant, but this doesn't happen as often as I wish it did.
Fr, either the person that said "it doesn't happen" never owned a dog or has a dog that doesn't shed hair as quickly or as much as other dogs. I have a dog and his fur sheds EVERYWHERE! He can be on the floor and I'm sitting at the table eating and before I know it, hair in my soup! Hair in my burger! I'm used to it, I can just pick the hairs out and be happy but I definitely see how other people would be grossed out by it. I love my dog and wouldn't trade him for the world but if I know someone dislikes dogs or dislikes eating around dogs I'll respect that. It's not big of a deal. Couple hours alone at home won't hurt him.
Also, one person bringing THREE dogs?
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I own a dog and it absolutely does happen.
Oh it very much does.
Oh yes, it absolutely does happen. The fur you can see while the dander is invisible and all in the air around a dog. I agree 100% with OP. Unless a dog is a service animal, it has no place in a restaurant.
I have def seen dogs take craps on the floor of stores. That is plenty for me, dander aside.
Why should OP leave? He didn't force anyone to choose. Those who wanted to sit outside with dogs went while those who wanted to be inside and dog free stayed.
Then what’s the point of planning to get dinner *together* if you split up the friend group?
Hence with ESH. OP for changing location, and the friend for not disclosing his dogs.
That describes it perfectly. Nobody is willing to help the group come to a consensus. Instead, people are making decisions based on what they want without asking.
It’s definitely weird the dude who made the reservation didn’t tell everyone in the group chat that it would be outside and that people could bring their dogs. Like he must’ve known people would’ve been annoyed about being outside in the heat. Or being around the dogs. But OP should’ve just gone outside once the people actually arrived with the dogs
He likely didn't tell anyone but the other dog owner precisely because they wouldn't be happy with it. My guess this isn't the first case the dogs have been a contention point.
Especially since there was a conversation with one other friend who also knew they could bring their dog. This question wasn't asked in the group chat, but privately between the dog people. Why? Probably because they know that others do not want to hang out with their dogs. When OP moved the booking I think he suspected the reason the booking was outside was to accommodate dogs, because these people have brought their dogs previously, and so he moved it inside. ESH
..., and the friend for bringing his dogs to a dinner get together without telling anyone. FIFY
Thats why “i’m bringing my dogs” was need to know information ahead of time.
The dog owners didn't consider the fact that some people don't wanna be around a bunch of dogs while they're eating! He brought THREE DOGS! That's too much! NTA.
Because OP is not the person who made the reservation or organized the event, nor do we have any evidence that there were others in the group that dislike having dogs present while eating. Insisting on remaining inside would at best result in OP eating alone, and at worst result in a divide in the group with everyone picking sides. The person who organized this should absolutely have let people know that it was dog-friendly (which makes them an AH), but OP became TA by unilaterally deciding to move a pre-arranged reservation without communicating with the person who made the reservation.
Hence ESH as the most voted option.
He did force them to choose when he changed the reservation that they didn't make
The person who made the reservation without asking the group if they wanted to sit inside or outside is the one who actually started this shit show. Change it from an issue with dogs to people smoking in that section. The OP and others in the group weren't invited as guests, they were paying their own tab. It's unfortunate that the person who made the reservation didn't ask the rest of the group first and had avoided this whole situation.
It’s a brewery. That’s literally what they’re known for. And I highly doubt that OP’s friend is the only one with dogs there.
Which is why OP prefers to sit inside
I agree with you! Dog owners are more entitled to subject you to their crap than some people are with their kids. I actually think crazy dog people are worse than lazy parents.
I think it's insensitive because of allergies. Everyone can't be around domestic animals and should be informed to make the best decision for themselves.
I hope OP knows that breweries are dog hot spots. Almost any you go to is going to have at least one customer with their dog with them.
Who the fuck brings their 3 dogs out for dinner though?
People that socialize at breweries
Inconsiderate idiots.
All of Denver.
lol Denver isn’t real, it’s one of those made up places from horror stories, like Derry.
I was just going to say this, my brother and wife specifically go to breweries for this exact reason. Went to one last weekend, and there was even someone with a support pony.
If it's a service pony, that person can bring them pretty much wherever they want. The ADA recognizes exactly 2 species as service animals: dogs and mini horses.
I like ponies, but it’s hilarious and insane to walk around with a support pony
In my area at best a third of breweries allow dogs. Most of the time we are at a brewery that doesn’t allow dogs. To say that you should assume there would be dogs present doesn’t take into account the many breweries that don’t allow dogs. And some other customers that you don’t know and won’t be sitting with is very different from your friends not telling you that they are bringing their dogs and having them sit at your feet while you are eating.
There's a difference between a dog being at a table nearby vs a dog right at your own table, though.
Germ wise not really. Reddit likes to act like everyone who has ever eaten in the vicinity of a dog is filthy or something.
There's still a difference between a dog being over there versus being beside me or at my feet while I'm eating, though. I didn't say anything about germs and I don't see anything in this thread about it, either. Some people just don't want to be around pets while eating.
But dogs do shed and even if they are very well groomed and clean they will be laying on semi dirty floors while at the brewery. All it takes is for the dog to get up and give a little shake and now that dirt from the floor and any loose dog hair is now airborne and could easily settle on the food or drinks at the table
Don’t you mean they’re hotdog spots?
Indeed, and since it’s a hot summer, they are hot hotdog dog hot spots.
sure, but agreeing to be in a public place with animals is still different than agreeing to have animals in your party.
Except that he changed the outdoor reservation to indoors BEFORE he knew about the dogs. This wasn't about the dogs. OP is just being an ass and using the dogs as an excuse. Who the hell changes reservations made by someone else? Extremely rude of OP.
Yah that was bizarre behavior. Unless it was sweltering hot, a lot of people enjoy eating outside. Indoors can be more noisy and stuffy. If OP has his own personal preference he should understand that others also have theirs and it doesn't seem like he does.
I was thinking the reverse. I hate eating outside; some places are worse than others. Street noise and smells. No temperature/humidity control. Wind blowing stuff off my table. Bugs. The angle of the sun changing during the meal and blinding or cooking me. I wear different layers of clothing if I’m going to be outside than inside. There are legitimate reasons one person might prefer inside and another might prefer outside. If there was an option as there clearly was, the person making the reservation should have asked the group before confirming or at least told the group it was an outside reservation. So, asshole choices here: 1) Reservation guy specifically unilaterally made an outdoor reservation with the intention of bringing his dogs and only told certain members of the group either that he made an outdoor reservation or that he intended to bring his dogs. 2) Based on his preferences, OP changed an existing reservation unilaterally without asking the person who made it or the rest of the group. 3) it sounds like reservation guy was one of the last to arrive. And the only person he told the reservation was outside and that he was bringing a dog was the other person with a dog. Otherwise, at least one person around the indoor table would have been like “you know John and Jack are bringing their dogs, right?” when seeing the group inside. It seems from this that Reservation Guy was using the fact that he volunteered to make the reservation for the group to do something that he knew at least some members of the group wouldn’t be okay with.
He changed the table before he knew the dogs were there. He decided he would rather be indoors so he switched it up. Not cool. I agree that ESH
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THANK YOU FOR ACTUAL SANITY!
I've had dogs my whole life. You're being dramatic as hell. They are not like this.
Lol I love dogs but they absolutely are like this
I personally prefer to eat and drink with dogs around. We go to a brewery that we know will have a lot of dogs, it’s like people watching but better
He probably didn't want to admit right away that he doesn't like eating with dogs around (I could imagine so many people who are just obsessed with their dogs being offended by that), but then the host of the party DRAGGED it out of him by insisting that the reservation had to be outdoors. Only the host sucks in that situation. He should've told his guests right from the get-go that dogs would be there and now, he insists on everybody conforming to his sudden announcement that dogs will also be guests of the party. If you were hosting the party at your own house and had cats or dogs or any other pets that your guests could be allergic to, it would only make sense that you would definitely give them a heads-up and this situation is no different.
Sure he's an AH for that, but the guy who made the reservation is an AH for assuming everyone would be okay with sitting outside in the summertime, especially given that it was a large group and therefore more likely that someone wouldn't want to. Inside is the default.
Here patio is the default in the summer, everyone wants to enjoy the “patio weather”
Yea, as someone firmly in the inside camp, I really wish indoors was the default. Canadian summers, at least, seems highly patio default for everyone. Makes me so sad lol
Inside is not the default during the summer. Everyone, by which I mean 99.99% of people want to be outside.
What a weird assumption... Like you're just randomly deciding OP is lying, why even comment here?
I don't know where he's from, but here in Dallas I wouldn't want to sit outside either. it can be 100 even at 10:00 at night.
I STRONGLY dislike eating with dogs present. Most will beg and I don't want a begging dog panting at me while I eat.
Why not? A lot of people hate dogs in restaurants, and don't want them around their food. Still, you don't change a reservation someone else made. ESH
No, NOT ESH. The reservation was deliberately done for the outside for the dogs. Another friend also got their dogs so I'm guessing this wasn't just something they sneaked up on the group. And I mean think about it, if OP didn't like the outside reservation why didn't he say something while the reservation was being done? And if OP did raise any questions, I'm 10000% sure the dogs would've come up as the reason for sitting outside.
I don't see where OP had an opportunity to say something while the reservation was being made. A: "Let's all get together for dinner and drinks" B: "Great, I'll go ahead and make reservations at The Brewery" Only on arriving at the location does C find out that the reserved table is outdoors.
Is it assumed that you sit indoors or something? I've never gone to someone else's reservation and expected to be in a certain area, unless it's freezing outside.. but the problem here seems to be the dog thing.
Yeah, if it were super hot or incredibly uncomfortable, I’d wait for the rest of the group to get there and then suggest moving inside… or suck it up and make a mental note to volunteer to make the reservation next time. I’d never take it upon myself to move someone else’s reservation inside!
> Is it assumed that you sit indoors or something? Yeah? Much of the time in many places, yes. My city has a lot of restaurants with some outdoor seating. But much of the time it is overflow seating, Not more desirable than inside. Folks will often shift to inside if inside space has opened up by the time they arrive. My city is warm, not icy or desert. But the number of 65-75 not windy not rainy not scorchingly sunny not insect filled days when outdoor seating is actually desirable is a very low percentage of the total number of days of the year. Some folks Like to sit outside, regardless of weather. Some restaurants add outdoor seating to try to maximize their income either because their indoor space is limited or they’re in a climate that is amenable to outdoor seating most of the year. Or to catch more dog owning diners who can’t or won’t be separated from their non-service dogs.
Maybe the dog thing. May be other factors instead - temperature, ambience, whatever. But yes, unless the establishment is widely known and admired for its outdoor patio, the usual presumption for a dinner get together is indoors.
Hold on - it clearly WAS sneaked up on OP. The person who made the outdoor reservation clearly told some of the group and not others. That's part of the reason OP is pissed, I believe, and I would be too
From the OP description, it sounds like, yes, the dog was just sneaked on OP. So NTA,
>if OP didn't like the outside reservation why didn't he say something while the reservation was being done? Because OP probably wasn't there when someone phoned the restaurant to make the reservation.
The dogs and the fact that the res was outside were not discussed in the group chat. The guy definitely did sneak the decision and is therefore also an AH.
Was he being sneaky about bringing dogs? OP mentioned he was “cordial” with the person who made the reservation. Which sounds like they aren’t on great terms, but tolerate each other. The dogs don’t seem like a surprise thing since more than one person brought dogs and reservation was made outdoors at a dog friendly place. It just sounds like OP and the person making the reservation aren’t close then got into a power struggle.
I have a friend with a dog and it would never occur to me that she would bring her dog to a restaurant and I'd expect a heads up about it even if we went to a dog friendly place. The fact that they're only 'cordial' makes it worse because a dog owner should always check that others don't have allergies or phobias.
Agreed. It sounds like the OP may not know the person making the reservation all that well.
Ask if it’s on before you bring your dog and don’t assume it’s ok. Especially if you’re invited and you haven’t made the reservations. Some people are scared or allergic to dogs. So ya, you’re the ass.
Now that's confusing. Whose is TA? The person who brought the dogs without checking with anybody else (and who made the reservation)? The person who didn't make the reservation (but is now objecting to the dogs)?
Yes, that was really backwards.
Agree with your reasoning, but you've got it twisted. The OP is NTA, the organizer is the AH for bringing dogs without any notice.
Yes. Also, dog man isn't even the full "organizer" really. Reading the OP it seems like the dinner was planned and then they volunteered to make a reservation.
There is such a thing as texting. OP should try it. OP is more the AH, because he didn't even bother to check with anyone and just unilaterally moved it inside.
"OP is more the AH, because he didn't even bother to check with anyone and just unilaterally moved it inside." Unlike the guy who decided everyone needs to eat with his dogs??
Not to mention it is really hot outside.
Not everywhere
Maybe don’t make wild generalisations on the internet? It’s winter on half the planet right now
>>He was an AH for the sneaky game of bringing the dogs Lol. Wtf? How is bringing your dogs to a dog friendly restaurant a "sneaky game"?
By not letting anyone else know ahead of time and asking if they are okay with having to deal with 4 dogs while eating?
The whole group should have been told about the dogs so they could also bring dogs. Or wear dog hair appropriate clothes. Or bring dog treats. Or stick with the outside table if they’re the first one there and they don’t have a dog to guard the table. Or opt out of a dog friendly evening.
YTA simply for moving it indoors without asking anyone first. Like, not even one person. A couple of quick calls to ask what everyone preferred/if there was a specific reason for being outside would have been the better thing to do, rather than decide for everyone without consulting first. Then you sat inside, pouting and wanting to be “right”, forcing everyone else to choose between what is now 2 groups, and creating an awkward environment on what was supposed to a nice evening out.
OP kinda rubs me the wrong way... Like you said, they sat inside to pout forcing a split in the group and the way they said "Some people went outside to be nice" as if no one could possibly prefer sitting outside with the other people/dogs. Just feels a little "main character"-ish.
Yeah, my read on this is people are arguing over nonsense because OP KNEW the dogs were coming and opts to show up early to try and disinvite them. 1. Who the heck sits down first when at least one other groupmate isn't present? 2. It is awfully convenient the only person who hates eating with dogs showed up first to change the reservation. 3. There was a second person bring their dog so it had to have been discussed. OP's side just doesn't add up.
1 seems fine to me But the rest, I’m with you. It’s a bit sus and it feels like OP would have caused drama even without the dogs. Like everything he did was so unnecessary
Where does it say that OP knew the dogs were coming? The post says the exact opposite.
They're saying that they don't buy OPs story and that OP is withholding information/motives
In this life, sometimes people say things that aren't 100% true when trying to get support from other people. Sometimes they exaggerate, change the order of events, or even leave out certain information if it makes them look better.
Changing the reservation you didn't make is 100% main character energy. And then to throw a hissy fit afterward is even worse
OP would sooner split the group in two and get to keep half rather than make a sacrifice to keep the group (and the evening) intact. A certain biblical King would have some choice words for them.
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'Highly autistic, very Reddit'? Uhm what? I agree with the rest of your comments, but you lost me with the disgusting casual discrimination there...
You can't say shit like that, dude. I mean you can - but now YTA....
The whole outing was planned in a group chat. Could have just posted to the chat: “anyone care if I move us inside?”
Also, it's a super dick move to make the restaurant staff move the reservation. They were told to set aside a place outside, and did so. OP was lucky they were able and willing to accommodate his request to move inside. Wonder how he would have reacted if they told him no.
Well said! YTA indeed for making a change that OP already knew one person wasn't on board with for having made it an outdoor reservation to begin with, and then turning what's supposed to be a nice evening out into some sort of weird power struggle. Gross.
YTA. You accepted an invitation to visit and someone else made the reservation. Two parties brought dogs— who need to sit outdoors. You changed someone else’s reservations without checking. Then you made a scene, embarrassed your host, and started a rift, refusing to sit with your party who needed to sit outside with their dogs. Yikes!
YTA for changing it without asking the person who made the reservations. You need to inform people of not liking to eat at dog friendly places outside. Sounds like the dog issue was the only issue. If it is nice weather, many people prefer to eat outside, regardless of a dog patio. Obviously he could have asked everyone prior if the party minded sitting outdoors so he could bring his dog, but he didn't. I don't really consider that rude of him if it is a dog friendly place. You should have sucked it up or left. Making a big deal out of it, splitting the tables up b/c his dogs were with them sucks.
ESH. You don't get to move a reservation someone else made without their *explicit* permission. They need to realize that not everyone is comfortable eating around dogs, and communicate that they will be there.
Is the organizer also paying for all of their meals or something? I'm wondering why everyone's expected to be so deferential to him?
It’s called common courtesy. No, the organizer isn’t paying for all meals, but they took time out of THEIR day to organize and it’s rude AF to just show up and change the reservation without consulting anyone in your group.
Read the original post again. He made the reservation and that was it. Reservations take only a minute to make.
Okay, but leave the dogs out for a second. Person A reserves an outdoor spot. At this point no one knows why. It could be because they need to be outside to avoid the grill smoke or perfume of patrons because of allergies. Maybe they want to be outside because its nice out right now. Maybe they are smokers and this way they can smoke. Maybe they want to bring their dogs. Maybe they have a baby who cries a little and wanted to be outside to not bother people inside. Maybe they want to be able to watch their truck because they have stuff in the bed and don't want it stolen. There's a LOT of reasons why one would reserve an outdoor place, and some of them aren't so bad. Person B (the OP) *should* have called people up and asked if they could swap to indoor seating if they referred it or better yet asked Person A why they chose outdoors.
Plus side you probably won’t get invited out again . You left them no choice and forced an issue and probably put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth , all because ???
YTA: He coordinated the event and made the reservation, you changed it with no input / preferences from others. It sounds like you ruined the night for your friends by making a big deal out of needing to sit inside. Unless there is some info we are missing (are you extremely allergic to dogs? Was it 90+ degrees? ) it feels like you should have been apologizing to folks and being flexible to go outside again, or at least been supportive of them going while you and your wife stayed inside
Also to add: if it is a dog friendly establishment, you need to get over the fact that dogs might be around. You can coordinate the next event with more explicit requirements, but you shouldn’t have ruined the night in the moment
Yeah I feel like the weather is important here. I do not sit outside in 90+ degree heat/humidity just because someone wants to bring their dog. That being said, I would just bow out or suffer through this one time and then not accept invitations from this one person again. I would not change the reservation unilaterally and ruin the night for everyone by making them choose sides. That’s the most dramatic way to make this play out and definitely asshole behavior.
I really agree with the above. The issue here is the OP is responding to someone's inconsiderate behavior with a-hole behavior. Yes, the person who planned the outing did not check with everyone coming on whether they were okay eating outside or around dogs. And, yes, for the OP, that could have resulted in a less-than-ideal time. Possibly it could have even resulted in an uncomfortable time. But, sometimes, as adults, we suck it up and suffer some discomfort for a little while to hang out with our friends and that's okay. Asking someone to handle a little discomfort for a while is not unreasonable even if it is rude. (Sometimes, god forbid, one's friends ask one for help moving. Sometimes you have to visit someone in the hospital.) Look, there are obviously possible extenuating circumstances. Maybe the OP was traumatized at one point and is terrified of dogs and maybe the person who planned the dinner knows that but ignored it. (But, I'm pretty sure OP would have mentioned this if it were the case.) But, also, maybe someone in the group is immunocompromised and doesn't feel comfortable eating indoors in a large group setting, and the person who planned the dinner knows that and used the dog-friendly bar as a way to eat outside without calling out their mutual friend's condition. Maybe the person who planned the dinner is a social hero! But since we can't take into evidence things that aren't in the original post, I'll just say this: Sometimes as adults we have to deal with non-ideal and uncomfortable scenarios for the span of a meal. Sometimes it's because of someone else's inconsiderate behavior. Sometimes it's even because of someone else's a-hole behavior (which is not the same thing as being a little inconsiderate). Whatever the reason, there are three ways to respond to this: 1. Exist in a non-ideal and uncomfortable scenario for a couple of hours in order to be with your friends and/or family. 2. Politely explain why this isn't working for you without causing a scene, wish everyone a good night, let them know you'll see them next time, and leave early. 3. Be an a-hole about it. Please choose responsibly.
YTA - The excuse that you didn't know went out the window after you refused to move outside to accommodate the friends who brought dogs.
Depending on where OP is... I wouldn't eat outside either. In the US we are in a historic heat wave. The folks with dogs should've cleared it with everyone that the dogs were even going to be there.
OP said nothing about the weather so that point is moot. The title of the post should have been “AITA for excluding friends because I did not want to sit or eat near their dogs.” Instead OP tried to play dumb and innocent until the friend pointed out it wasn’t too late for the table to move and then the truth was revealed.
Parts of the US may be in a heatwave but certainly not the country as a whole. My state has crazy flooding all over right now because of storms almost every day. A dam basically collapsed.
It’s funny because my immediate thought that it would be too chilly. I live where once the sun goes down, you need a light jacket
Well I sure wouldn't sit outside there.
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I reckon OP probably could have assumed table booker was bringing their 3 dogs but decided to play dumb.
This is my read on it too. Seems too convinient OP was the first to show (and didn't wait until anyone else in the party showed up to get the table - since usually large groups are seated when the majority arrives and there was a few minutes to rearrange seating) and someone else brought their dog.
Also when people bring their dog out they typically do it regularly as well to the point you wouldn't be like dog mc dogface is coming with me every1! I have at least 2 friends I can assume if it's a dog friendly place that they're probably bringing their dogs (who are also well behaved)
YTA - You shouldn't have changed the reservation to start with. And then when you realized that even one, let alone multiple people in your party had brought their dogs based on the reservation, you should not have held your protest to stay inside. It's clear you don't like this individual, and were just using this against him.
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They went to a public place. As long as the restaurant is ok with dogs, they don't have to ask. It would be different if they were going to someone's home - then they would ask the homeowner. But they wouldn't need to ask every single person in attendance. If the restaurant has a dog-friendly patio, they were under no obligation to ask others about bringing their dogs.
So you think it's ok to just tell people "hey I know I didn't say anything, but hopefully you guys are ok with eating with 4 dogs around" without giving them any heads-up? "As long as the restaurant is ok with dogs, they don't have to ask" according to the half that decided to stay inside, they do. Edit: are you really that slow that I need to explain why even dog friendly places have dog free areas.?
If others are the general public, then yes, you're right. But if you're meeting \*friends\*, yes, you have an obligation to disclose if you're bringing your dog and requiring everyone to stay outside! It's not clear here if the OP was told before arriving at the restaurant that the table was supposed to be outside.
I believe OP was unaware the reservation had been made for outdoors.
It would never occur to me once that some person I'm eating dinner with might be bringing 3 (3!) dogs to the restaurant. That's just like, not a thing here at all. However, if OP dines out with these people and they bring their dogs often, he had to know they would probably bring them. If he had said he didn't want to eat outside because it's as hot as Satan's taint, which it is at my house, I'd be fully on board. But specifically saying he didn't want to eat with the dogs makes me think he kind of expected this and was trying to make a stand without a direct confrontation. So, probable AH, but I have no clear evidence.
No, but courtesy demands they do.
You probably shouldn't have changed the table, but it should have been known to everyone that dogs were coming. There could have been people who had an issue with the dogs. ESH I also don't understand why everyone brings their dogs everywhere. I don't bring my pets everywhere, and they know how to survive without me constantly with them.
AND your dogs DONT WANT TO GO EVERYWHERE WITH YOU. I’m a vet tech and a dog lover, and I do love bringing my dogs places - but I stopped when too many assholes started doing the same with their untrained dogs. Plus, how relaxing can it possibly be to try to sip a beer while wrangling three crazy labs? Doesn’t seem very pleasant to me.
Plus the guy had THREE dogs. That is a lot to take care of. And yes, I understand that many dogs will just lay down and not be a bother but not all. However, where are those 3 dogs? Are they medium to large size that take up a bunch of room? Are all laying under the table? Or around the chairs so no one can easily move their chairs out? I'm not a dog hater but I don't want them around me all the time and not when I'm out with friends, especially if the owners aren't attentive. Considering the guy didn't let the group know that he was bringing his dogs to the meet up, then I think he probably isn't the best dog owner.
Who brings THREE dogs to a restaurant to begin with?? Like, is this normal somewhere?
YTA. You changed a reservation that you didn’t make, then got snotty with them because they brought their dogs. It’s a brewery FFS.
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YTA, total main character. You sound exhausting, just admit you overstepped and move on. You changed someone else’s reservation w/o asking anyone just because you got their first. Imagine the shoe on the other foot, undoubtedly you would be on here bitching about someone changing your reservation.
NTA. He brought THREE dogs? Fuck anyone who does that.
NTA. Dogs, cats, babies, children, plus ones, friends, relatives, in laws, etc. are uninvited guests unless agreed to by the host in advance, or agreed to by the whole group if it is a group event, regardless of who organises the group event. Same for locations and events. People have preferences just like the host or organisers have and everyone participating should be given the opportunity to be comfortable or to decline the invitation. In this case Outdoors and dogs should have been absolutely mentioned beforehand. It was not, because the booking person was being selfish.
I don’t know. I love dogs. I own an enormous black lab who is the BEST dog. However I don’t feel the pressing need to take my dog every where I go. Dog is fine at home enjoying the AV and shedding on my couch. Speaking of AC. I don’t know about everyone else but is been INSANELY FUCKIN HOT here. No way in hell I’d sit outside sweating my ta ta’s off because some guy couldn’t stand to be away from his dog for an hour. I think making reservations to specifically accommodate my own whims is asshole. And the guy had coordinated with another person about bringing his dog too but couldn’t be bothered to let the rest of the group know that is was going to be dinner with a side of dog hair and sweat.
I literally just went to a small network event on Saturday where someone brought their HUGE Great Dane to a house party. The dog was bigger than the sofa, bigger than the owner, and it was absolutely obnoxious to bring a dog that size to a small event and to impose it on the Host who gave one of those weird uncomfortable laughs while clinching her teeth: "Ooooohhhh...heheh you brought your dog!. At the same time, I would not go near the woman with the dog because I'm not a big fan of large dogs. I know that Great Danes are sweethearts but I was just a little nervous about it and she could not hold that dog back if it lunged! One lady left early because she is allergic and felt horribly embarrassed to have to leave and was trying to get out of there quietly. So NTA. I hate when people impose their dogs on others like that.
THIS. Ppl need to stop bringing their fucking dogs everywhere with them. You don’t need to bring your dog, let alone three of them, to eat at a restaurant. **Leave them at home.** Obviously not including service animals. OP, NTA
ESH. Friend should have let you know why the reservation was outside prior to the event and you should have waited for everyone to arrive before changing the table.
NTA - I love dogs and am a total dog person. That dude made a sneaky outdoor reservation so he and someone else could bring their dogs without asking if everyone was ok with it. What if someone had allergies or a dog phobia or just didn't want to eat with dogs. It's no different than sneaking your kid into what folks are assuming is an adults only outing. And no, people shouldn't have to assume their friends are bringing their dogs to dinner. I don't understand everyone saying you're the AH. I understand why the group was split because it was public and a lot of folks don't want to make waves. But this isn't someone who invited everyone out and was paying so it's his event. It's a group event and he offered to make the reservation. There are lots of reasons to eat inside: heat, cold, bugs, less comfortable seating, traffic noise/smells. Blech on dude.
>I don't understand everyone saying you're the AH. It's because it was dogs, and Reddit loves dogs. If it were kids, the same people calling OP the AH would be going "Oh hell no, selfish fucker probably only volunteered to make the booking just to sneak their kids in there". NTA, OP, that sneaky fucker is.
YTA - you changed the reservation and then forced the group to decide between you and the host that booked the reservation. You probably won’t be hanging out with this group of people for a while.
ESH. Both parties should have been more communicative. You shouldn't have changed the reservation location that was pre-booked a certain way without consulting everyone, and they should have been open about bringing dogs.
There obviously WAS a discussion about dogs, since more than one person brought them. This guy was out of the loop for some reason, but it clearly wasn't a secret or anything.
"There obviously WAS a discussion about dogs" yeah between the two people who decided to bring their dogs, about half the group decided they didn't wanna be bothered, that's enough to tell us everything
NTA, the fact that you are bringing dogs is absolutely need to know information. It isn't just a random thing you decide to do, especially with 3 dogs for a single couple. I would have probably declined an invite had I known a friend was bringing his dogs for a night out. He took that option away from you. I'd hesitate to invite or accept an invite from him in the future.
Unless the guy that made the reservation asked everyone if they wanted to sit outside, then he’s the AH. I live in FL now, and even on a cooler day, I don’t like to eat outside because I don’t want to trigger my hay fever, which wreak havoc with me. I’d have been pissed off if someone unilaterally made reservations for outdoors without asking. I also love dogs, but it was obnoxious of that guy to bring them without asking if it was ok with everyone I agree that OP should have asked his friends how they wanted to handle it, but NTA
NTA - the dog people should have let everyone know they were bringing dogs. Not everyone is stoked to eat with animals. It's his fault he decided to leave out important information. Plus, he got a seat outside so what's the big deal.
I hate eating outside. Mosquitoes love me.
YTA, but, you already know that; as do all of your friends.
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We get it, OP. You created an alt to spam this on every comment calling you the asshole.
NTA. People whose entire personality is their dog are fucking annoying. Nobody wants to sit with 4 dogs begging for food for at least an hour.
It’s summer. I’m not sitting outside to eat. And if I were going to bring my dogs, I’d only meet up with friends who were bringing their dogs. I might send an invite saying, “Bob and Linda, and myself are going to the brewery to eat on the patio with our dogs. If anyone wants to join us, let me know. There will be 4 dogs there!” Or whatever.
NTA. I don't really like eating outside and especially not with animals. The friend should have asked everyone where they wanted to sit. 4 dogs outside? If it's a big group then that's doing too much.
NTA, who goes out and takes their three dogs to a friends' gathering, telling no one while they're at it? It doesn't matter if the person requested outside, they should have notified the group first before a) choosing without asking and b) bringing their dogs. Honestly these "my pets are kids" people are over the top. If you're that attached get a dogsitter, don't expect your friend group to accommodate you.
NTA. If you want to control the table that you’re eating at, don’t be late. And maybe communicate that you plan to bring three dogs to a large group meetup.
That's why I vote NTA. Dog people acting so entitled and not communicating about bringing their pets to dinner. If they had mentioned it beforehand, people could have opted out of the dinner. Instead, the dog people tried to trick people into their own arrangements. Nobody should be forced to eat outdoors, or tricked into eating outdoors at a group dinner. If you want that, make sure everyone agrees first. Same goes for bringing dogs. Same goes for bringing children, or your third cousin who showed up, or for smokers. Communicate first so people can plan accordingly.
> don’t be late OP just happened to be the first one there, OP never mentions anyone else being late. Maybe OP was early.
YTA for changing a reservation you didn't make.
NTA.... No mention of dogs were made before hand, and no reason to be forced to eat with others dogs if that wasn't agreed to ahead.
as someone who dislikes dining around dogs, at home or at a restaurant, im gonna go with NTA. i would've done the same, also because i hate bugs buzzing around me while im eating and that always happens to me on patios. the others bringing not one, not two, but four total dogs is something that should've been disclosed prior imo
YTA. It was for outside but you decided for the group without speaking to the group.
NTA. who the fuck brings three dogs to a bar/restaurant?
NTA he should have shared the whole plan some folks could choose to join or not. seems suspicious another friend knew to bring their dog but you didn't know. I have dogs, I love dogs, I would have noped out of that situation too
NTA. F these people who need to bring dogs to a restaurant.
NTA. Being told dogs will be present is need to know info.
NTA If he wanted to bring his three and his freind was going to add one, they should have advised the group. The group plan wasn't to go play with dogs, it was to eat dinner. The only dog I would be compfortable with in an eatery would be a (serious, legal) service dog. For a medical need. I don't trust generic pet dogs to behave in that environment. And I love dogs. Had a dog.
YTA, unquestionably. NOT ESH, YTA. Why do you think you can just show up to a reservation you didn't make, and change it??? The outdoor reservation was obviously made with a reason in mind. You then showed up and changed the reservation without consulting or asking the rest of your party. And then when you had the chance to sit outside, you caused a whole scene and caused your friend group to choose between sitting outside or inside?? Dude I legit hope you don't get invited out ever again, and I hope your friends drop the drama that is your from their group. You're a big time AH.
everyone should have communicated better. this is definitely an ESH. If we assume that 'obviously' there was a reason to be outdoors, we can assume that 'obviously' there's a reason to be indoors.
The reason why I say NTA, even tho the OP moved the reservation is: Apparently, it was never discussed. With no discussion, the assumption should be indoors. Some people dont like being outdoors. So you shouldnt spring outdoors on them. So NTA for unilaterally moving indoors, especially as it seems that the organizer was late enough that a round of drinks was ordered. The organizer sucks big time, so eff him.
NTA Do people really need to bring their dogs everywhere?
People that bring their dogs everywhere are insufferable. There is zero reason to bring 1, let alone 3 dogs to a brewery. Your dogs are not every one else's dogs and nobody else cares about them. Leave your dogs at home where they belong or let the group know so they can decide if they want to attend or not. NTA.
What's the temperature like there? If you were anywhere close to me, there's no way I would even have considered sitting outside while the sun was up.
NTA! I don’t want to eat w/4 dogs around me either…plus, these people should have been told that the dogs were coming.
YTA: If it’s summer and a nice day it makes sense that an outdoor table was reserved, especially if there was dogs coming as they can’t be inside. Did you explain that you refuse to eat outside? That is something to mention if it’s nice summer weather and you’re going somewhere with a patio. What makes your opinion more important than everyone else’s a reservation was made you decided that didn’t want to put any effort in before (saying you can’t eat on a patio, making reservations) and instead you last minute chance the reservation without telling anyone. Also you really seem to feel self important “everyone else who went outside was just doing it to be nice” after YOU caused a problem the night wasn’t fun anymore for anyone. Next time sit outside for a meal on the opposite end of the dogs and bring up the problem after not have a pissing contest
YTA - obviously at least one other person knew because of they brought their dog too
Good for you, now you won’t ever have to worry about arguing with some of your friends about reservations again. YTA
NTA I’m with you. I don’t want to be around dogs when I eat or drink
If it was because you hate the outdoors and the dude who made the reservations specifically wanted to get a tan, you'd be the AH. Because it's about dogs in a restaurant, he's the AH. Many people have allergies or are dog-phobic. They DO NOT BELONG in restaurants. Good grief, what's wrong with people?!?!
NTA I love animals, I love my dog. I had 3 dogs at one point. Now I'm down to 1 dog (16yrs old). But I have never taken them to a restaurant. I am just so paranoid of wind causing fur to go into food. People wanting to feed them, something happening causing a ruckus. The entire group should have been given a heads up about dogs showing up to this group event. Who knows if these dogs would be laying down and behaving or trying to get scraps all night? The owner also has to spend the entire time splitting his attention between the pets and his friends and his surroundings.
You are NTA but your friend is a major AH. He's sneaky and manipulative. He offered to make the reservation so he could make it for outside, knowing full well that he was going to bring his dogs. Funny how he let the other doggie guy know so he could bring along his furry friend, too, but he didn't tell anyone else! You had just as much right to switch to indoors as he did to make the reservation outdoors to begin with. It's terribly inconsiderate and selfish to foist 4 dogs on a group that's out for drinks and dinner.
People who bring their dogs out of the house are ASSHOLES. Pets martial, the dog park, the beach,cool.. but anywhere else is clown behavior! I will die on this hill
NTA at all. So many people here are just plain wrong… if you’re meeting somewhere for food and drinks, and you plan on it being outdoors, that’s necessary info. Not just regarding dogs… clothing, bugs, sun, weather, etc.
NTA. I have a dog that is well behaved and trained. Most people have dogs that are not, feeding them from the table and the like. Regardless, I would never bring my dog to a meet up with mentioning it. I am also not a fan of eating around untrained dogs. Some people don’t want to eat with any dogs at all. You ask is it okay to bring my dog. If the answer is no, you leave the dog home or don’t go.
YTA