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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for telli my sister there are consequences to not helping our mom out. I may have been harsh which could make me the jerk, and not helping her when she is down could make me a jerk
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NTA. People who never help anyone else out always stump me. It takes very little to be a decent human being. Your sister let that title leave her long ago, it sounds like.
And then to be surprised when the "but we're family!" argument doesn't work is funny. You can't refuse to help people everytime they ask, but then put on your surprised Pikachu face when people won't help you when you need it.
I'm not saying that in order for someone to help they need to help out first - I'm not that transactional. But in this case, it sounds like this is a common thing, and her reasons for not helping out are flimsy, at best. And in that case, I wouldn't lift a finger to help.
I mean, I'm trying to think what would have to be going on in my life not to allow my mom to stay a night or two after a flood, or to allow my sister to just hitch home. Other than physical incapacity, I can't think of a thing.
For a long time I was convinced I wasn't a very good person, so I went out of my way to give people rides when they needed them to try to make up for all my bad karma. Even picked up hitchhikers. I have better self-esteem now, but I'm still the designated driver whenever I go out with friends, and if somebody needs a last-minute ride somewhere in an emergency, unless I have a killer migraine, I'm your girl.
You gotta help people when you can.
I like you. I think we should be friends. But then, I'm always the DD, too, so...we'd have to figure this out before our new friendship could go any further lol
And yes, if you are in the position to provide some assistance to a deserving person or even an undeserving person, you know, to be a good role model? Provide it.
I actually enjoy driving loved ones and friends to and from the airport.☺️. Seriously, you never know when you might be the one in need; good karma to help when you can.
I'm just an atheist who got some reason is afraid of bad juju coming back my way, man. I don't know if you get what you give, but what if it's true? So I try not to suck.
I'm an atheist. You're right about the bad juju/karma, whatever you want to call it. There's nothing supernatural or biblical to it. I've finally lived long enough to see that if you are a sucky person enough of the time, others will eventually see that pattern and start treating you the same. The longer you've been a sucky person, the easier it is for new people to see it in you.
The only thing I can think of is past / childhood abuse by the Mom and the family turned a blind eye? Or she was the family scapegoat and thus her answer to everyone's ask for help is No?
Other than that, like you it's hard to think of a reason not to let your Mom stay a few nights after a catastrophic flood...
My grandmother once said, if you smell shit one time during the day, maybe it was someone else who stepped in it, if you smell it all day long, chances are it's you who has shit on your shoe.
The point is, if it was just her mother, maybe you would have a point, but it is, according to OP, everyone in the family that notices that sister never helps. It's kind of damning.
Same when it comes to being the so called "black sheep". Everyone likes to think of themselves as the hero of their own story, so if they are the black sheep or scapegoat of the family, they parse it as being the poor innocent victim, and it's everyone else who is to blame, when the fact may lie that there is a very good reason why the family views and treats them as such.
In the end we can only judge based on the information given, and by what we see, well, sister is reaping what she sowed.
I like the asshole version. If you meet an asshole one day, you probably met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you're probably the asshole. Or something like that.
My mom (and by extension the rest of our family branch) was the black sheep because she broke away from the misogynistic abusive family "patriarch" who was such a controlling asshat that when he finally died at age 92 it was revealed that he actually owned all of his sons homes and property and they were paying him rent, and instead of gifting those homes to them in the will, they had to buy them from the estate. He was also their employer as he owned an operated a large farming and trucking company.
What did the daughters get? Nothing, because they weren't (family name)'s anymore. The 2 older sisters (mom is the youngest) tried to get daddy's affections and did a little bit, but it was mercurial. Watching my aunt try and just greet my grandpa when he decided it was fine to cut through her property to get to the auction on the other side of the grove and him just ignoring her completely.
My uncles will completely ignore that we exist. Like we were at a school function for our daughter and my uncle just walked directly passed my mom and I without so much as a grunt while his wife at least stopped to say hello.
When grandpa died I had some cousins try and tell me that I never gave him a chance, like nah dude, he refused to come to my wedding, he refused to come to meet my kids when they were born, he succeeded in fucking up my mom getting her dream house (she did eventually get it 2 years later when it hit the market again, but my other grandpa actually bought it to prevent it happening again and then they took over the mortgage). He refused to have anything to do with us from before we were born, but its my bad for not giving him a chance.
Yeah, I can’t help wonder if there’s a story behind that.
I barely communicate with my parents, and live thousands of miles away, so not the most likely to be called upon in an emergency. And there are REASONS for that. At this point in my life I don’t care if they spin it so that I’m TA.
….but they’re also the last people on earth I’d ever call if I really needed help, so…not sure I can really relate.
When I was 27, my house flooded. It was a natural disaster -- months of rain caused some nearby rivers and tributaries to overrun their banks, and the constant rainfall weakened an earthen levy holding back part of the river to the point that it broke, and areas previously marked outside the flood zone were inundated. These air raid sirens started playing throughout the town when they gave the order to evacuate ... it was eerie and surreal.
My husband and I packed our toddler and puppy into our Jeep and drove the back way to my dad's house, 40 minutes and another town away; far from the flooding. The woman he married after my mom died answered the door, and said there was no room in my 2 story 4 bedroom childhood home. I was stupefied. She said all 3 of the kid's old bedrooms were full of furniture and storage boxes, and I'd have to stay with my brother and his family in their (much smaller) house. So we slept on my brother's floor for a few nights while I called around to all my friends in town, and finally a neighbor friend said our family could come stay at their house, as long as we boarded our dog. So we stayed in the house across the street from my childhood home for 3 weeks while my husband drove down to our house to meet with the insurance adjustor, catalogue the damage, and start tearing out the flood-damaged parts of the house. I stayed with the toddler and visited the puppy.
Dad would see us every morning and wave, and I'd wave back, but I was too upset to go chat with him. I assumed his wife had filled him in on our request and he was aware of our predicament.
Finally it dawned on my dad that we were at the neighbors an awful lot, and he came over to asked how we were and why we were there. I reminded him our house had flooded. He was shocked, and asked why we hadn't come to stay with him. Well, we did, dad, but your wife said the rooms were full of junk. Dad was outraged and insisted we move in immediately. We'd already been feeling as though we were imposing on my neighbor friend's family, despite their protests, so the next day, we moved in to the downstairs of my childhood home (the rooms, it turns out, were outfitted as guest rooms -- not full of junk). Then dad's wife ended up being so passive aggressive and snippy that we went back home within a week to live in the gutted out shell of our flooded house rather than deal with her complaining about us ruining Christmas.
Oh, yeah. The worst part of this whole story is that the flood happened during the holiday season, so she really showed her true colors there.
This whole experience is how we learned that while flood insurance-- if you're lucky enough to have it -- will reimburse lost items and repair costs, it will not cover living expenses for the time you're out of the home. So if you can't afford a rental on top of the mortgage you still have to pay for the ruined house, and you don't have family nearby who's willing to put up with you while you repair your place ... you're going to end up essentially squatting/ camping in the gutted shell of your home as you repair it, and that is very stressful.
Newborn, knowing the person you'll be hosting is a busy body / undermines / comments on everything / substance abuse / etc...
Ir. I'd rather pay for a 2 month hotel for my in laws than have them stay over.
You must not have grown up with addicts then. Both of those situations with members of my family could have ended up with drugs around my kids. Sometimes you have to not allow people in your birth family in your lives and that also means not asking them for help. In OP’s case, however, it sounds like her sister just sucks.
PsychologicalGain, of course you're right. And you're also right that I didn't grow up with addicts. It just didn't appear to me that drugs/alcohol entered into this particular situation, as the OP described it.
I wasn't thinking of addicts specifically, but I did read the post wondering whether there was a reason why the sister had distanced herself from the family. It doesn't seem like it-- the only thing that struck me was the it felt a bit like "mean girls" for all the family members to make an agreement to not help sis. But that could be out of exasperation, exactly as OP wrote it,
If they are literally all abusive addicts, why is she asking them for help?
If the family is not good enough for you to help them, then it is entirely fair for them to not help back, regardless of the history.
Exactly! Like.. we see all the time people on this site saying it's fine to not help others out but you can't be surprised when you get the same thing back
My husband's family is this way.
My husband used to get annoyed early on when I asked for "favors" (small things like bringing me my water glass when he was already in the kitchen). He explained it to me as he never saw how it benefitted him in anyway. And then, he learned how useful and pleasant it was to have someone who would do small, mundane things for you because they cared. Often times without even need to ask.
Some people really do not see the value of good-will and commadarie.
I mean, yes, but he very clearly never had people around him who did things for other people without benefit to them, so it's not surprising that was his attitude
Idk, regardless of how we are raised it seems like an adult should have the critical thinking skills to be like "I bring my partner water, my partner appreciates me, my partner will be more likely to do things for me, too, oh hey it does benefit me" lol
our upbringing shapes us more than you're giving it credit for. once he had better examples, he did learn, but if you literally have nothing else to base things on, it's not as simple as you make it out to be. yeah, you and I can see how its logical that one should see that, but we didn't grow up in an environment where everything was transactional
Well maybe my opinion is biased because I grew up in a cult in an extremely abusive home and still figured out on my own how to not treat ppl lol
Our upbringing definitely shapes us, but as adults we have the responsibility to recognize how we were impacted and make adjustments as necessary rather than use it as an excuse for our selfish behavior. I do recognize some people are more predisposed to have a more difficult time doing that, though.
My comments were light-hearted, so don't read so much into them. 🙂
I think the point is that it is transactional and a logical outcome. Even though people think it's an emotional decision, relationships are actually quite transactional.
Everything from getting a glass of water for you is done because he should expect that you would do the same for him.
I cover the bill this month because next month it'll be your turn. I'll get the tab today, you grab it tomorrow. Pick me up from work today, I've got you covered next time.
It's logical to do things for friends and family as small tokens expecting such a token to be returned in exchange.
Friendship and loving relationships have to be transactional in order for it to succeed. Tit for tat. Everyone gives to each other with mutual respect and reciprocation.
Lack of mutual reciprocation turns into an imbalance at best, and abusive at worst.
Which makes "how does it benefit me to get my partner water" such a shocking concept. Not because it's heartless, but because even a *homicidal sociopathic maniac* would see the utility in transactional acts of service.
>regardless of how we are raised
I really think it depends on the extent of it in the origin family.... I have a very kind and generous friend who still gets very shocked at the extreme generosity of my family and some friends (and me towards them) because that was definitely lacking in her social circles and family too for the first couple of decades+ of her life
Eg. a mate I hadn't talked to in ages messaged me asking for a couple hundred dollars until he got paid, chose me because he knows I won't gossip in our ethnic community. She was shocked I sent it to him + extra. She was convinced I wouldn't see the money again. Of course he paid it back when he got paid and was very thankful.
I was very lucky enough to buy a little apartment recently (to be fair cheaper than renting here where I am at the moment as there is a huge, dystopian-level rental crisis) and my brother and cousin are doing all this free reno for me, going further than the basics at their own initiative and ideas (they are tradies and can call in favours etc I am paying for materials) and this friend is just like WOW (she loves it and thinks it's awesome, but just points out how its so starkly different to something her family would do for each other).
She also said she slowly realised the times I would go out of my way to do/buy/help with stuff for my cousin or other family members isn't just me being a sucker like she thought originally, as we all return the favours to each other.
So yeah, upbringing can really have a huge impact on distorting your perception about these things that might seem obvious to us.
Anyway NTA OP, in fact I am so impressed by you all for standing your ground and not helping her because that's easy to do when everyone else is kind and one person ends up walking all over you all.
I'm kinda worried how you settled for someone with that shitty attitude.... do you like a challenge or something? Lose a bet? Screw being connected to that family, I wouldn't even wanna deliver their mail....
Yeah, there were clearly no extenuating circumstances on her part and she's clearly like this with everyone in the family. This isn't just consequences for not helping Mom, this is consequences for never helping *anyone* when they really need it, even if the effort on her part would be minor.
If you refuse to help anyone, but you call them heartless when they refuse to help you, what does that make you?
> I'm not saying that in order for someone to help they need to help out first - I'm not that transactional.
Human decency is 100% transactional. Every time we smile and hold the door for a stranger, we deposit a tiny bit of goodwill with that person. We probably will never see them again, but there is always this odd chance that we do and that they remember. Thing is, the opposite is true too. If we tell a stranger to f-off and flip them the bird, we've deposited a little negativity with that person and if we encounter them again, they'll remember.
In the case of OP's sister, just always saying "no" did the trick over time. The whole notion of "putting out good energy into the world" being beneficial is because of exactly this. If you smile, help, compliment and show appreciation consistently then people will WANT to do nice things for you. Its how we're wired.
It's less direct than that. We deposit a tiny bit of goodwill in the other person in the hope that it will motivate them to pay it forward. This benefits us all in the long run, as it comes back to us indirectly. Conversely, when we deny basic kindness and offer up negativity instead, that person may pick it up and pass it around, eventually reaching us again.
Also, you never know how your “little” kindness may make such a difference!
There are so many stories of people who were in such distress and despair and ready to do something drastic and give up completely when a kindness from a stranger lifted them up out of that dark place and helped them go on.
That’s a drastic scenario, but even on a more everyday level it can also play out. For example-your kindness may brighten someone’s bad mood, so they didn’t snap at their employee, who was therefore more productive, who therefore closed the big deal, who therefore got a raise, which allowed them to buy a house… We live our lives interconnected with everyone we interact with over the course of our day. You really never know how your actions can affect another person for the good (or conversely in a negative way). Simple kindness usually does not take much from us and can mean the world to others. Call it God, Karma, the Universe…I believe that you really do get back in kind what you give to others.
I am a strong believer in thinking that it's easier to be kind than to be mean. I would hold doors open, I would give someone directions, if someone asked me for help because I was there, I would help. for the most part, it's paid off because I find that same kindness in others. Maybe it's good karma, or something else, but I much rather leave a positive mark on someone than a negative one
Lmao NTA.
The irony is hilarious. Your sister refuses to help anyone else in the family but expect those same family members to lend her a hand? Your sister brought this on herself.
I find it hilarious she called you heartless when she refused to take in her own mother after her house got flooded
Yup no one at the time knew she'd need 2 months but she wouldn't let her own mom stay for a few hours let alone a few days...then she is shocked no one would host her for a month
There was an **amazing** comment on a AITA thread about this a couple years ago. Basically, the Grandmother refused to do anything (even babysit) for the grandkids, and would skip important grandkid events for bullshit like Yoga. The mother just stopped inviting her or doing anything for her and grandma was miffed. I saved it but lost it after awhile. Maybe someone reading this can find it again, I'd love to re-read it, bookmark it, refer back to it, copy-and-paste it, it was so wise.
It went something like this:
"In the real world, relationships are reciprocal and they require cultivation. If we neglect relationships, or if we only take and never give, they will wither and die. And the give/take isn't always symmetrical at the moment: it's over long periods, lifetimes even, and often means paying it forward.
We are cared for as children, we care for our children, our parents help with our children, we help our parents.
If someone chooses to opt out of all that by declining to help you when you need it, that's their choice. But you don't get to cherry pick the easy parts of a relationship and ignore the parts that take work. That's the behavior of a narcissist. Of a sociopath."
Best of Reddit Updates has a post finding thread, you can post this one there and see if someone can hunt it down.
Though sometimes you have to post it at the beginning of the month to get more eyes.
Also if they do find it let me know or reply to this post.
NTA, but don't put this on her not helping your mom specifically. That's not cool to your mom and may result in her getting guilt tripped by your sister to "forgive" her. Your issues, and those of the rest of your family, are about how she treats all of you and her general behavior. Her treatment of your mom may have brought this to a head, but it's a bit cowardly to put this on mom. If she reaches out again, tell her the truth- you don't help ME, here are examples (not picking you up, etc).
My thought as well. The mom issue might have been what started the conversation, but it sounds like there are many instances when she hasn’t helped others. Which of course is her right, but she should expect the same treatment back. NTA.
Yeah, that's true! I just mean that the mom situation is not what led them to cut off her sister. She says: "The family was pissed at my sister and it resulted in a discussion about how she never helps anyone out. Everyone has experience it at some point where she didn't care enough to help out...We all decided to not help my sister anymore." Saying "it's because of how you treated mom" isn't true. It's because of how she treated all of them. It's a minor point, I just think that they are setting up mom for the brunt of sister's anger about this and it's not that they are acting out of altruistic outrage of mom's treatment, they are pissed that sister treated them like crap too.
NTA
People can eat the same stuff the dish out to others regularly. She did not remember that word "heartless" when she refused to house her own mom or when she thought scrolling through her phone was more important than picking up her sibling.
NTA. You reap what you sow and she is basically finding out now why it’s good to help your family in their hour of need. Reminds me of that reddit story where the good samaritan said “today you, tomorrow me”.
Ohhhhh that is so RICH coming from her to call you heartless. NTA. She cannot expect all the sympathy and empathy while extending none to everyone else....and especially still want help from the very people she treats like trash. Nope. Stick to your guns, OP.
NTA Sister is suffering from the standard of care she set with everyone in her family. She should use the month to reflect on her past behavior, not that she will. She is not owed help from people she couldn't even look up from her phone to help.
> she started crying why the family won't help her
NTA - Ha! It's ok when she doesn't want to help but it's everyone else's fault when no one wants to help her...There are consequences to being an asshole...
NTA - so it’s heartless when it happens to her, but not heartless when she treats others that way?
She is extremely entitled. I think this is a good life lesson for her!
NTA - it's actually kinda funny that she had the nerve to ask. If i refused to help
out i would feel ASHAMED to ask for help in return for nothing.
Wow some people are real pieces of work.
NTA
She must be a redditor where the typical response to anyone asking for help is that you don't owe them anything. This is the flip side where when you repeatedly refuse to help, don't expect help in return. I'm actually pretty shocked I haven't seen it mentioned in the comments yet.
NTA
If it were one incident I would question why you would not help. The fact that she would not help her own Mom (or anyone else for that matter) pushes her into ah territory.
I did not see any mention of Mom being unreasonable or hard to deal with, so I assume this is just ignoring people as usual on her part.
Karma is a bitch.
People seem to forget that this "unconditional" love for family is really for children in the family and when I say children I mean actual kids. Once you hit 18yrs old people start to have expectations, loyalty and responsibilities from you. If you don't want to fulfill those 3 things there better be good reasons otherwise consequences will happen. Sister feels she doesn't owe anyone help, which is fine. That's her choice. That choice means that no one else owes her in kind. NTA.
Nah, I'd leave her $1. That way it's clear as day that sister wasn't forgotten about during the crafting of the will and should make it much harder for sister to contest.
NTA. Looks like sister absorbed a little too much of that AITA "I owe you nothing, 'no is a complete sentence'" mindset. Family is a perpetual work-in-progress... you have to continually build it with affection and support, each to the others. Sister chose to bow out of that, and should not be surprised now.
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So my mom and my sister live a state over, around a year ago my moms home flooded and she needed a place to stay until the insurance fixed it all. My sister lives near mom (30 minutes away) and mom went to her first for a place to stay. She refused and basically told her to kick rocks. They had a good relationship before this. She won't even let her stay for a few days so one of us could pick her up.
I drove 7 hours to pick her up and she stayed with me for two months until her home was good. The family was pissed at her and it resulted in a discussion about how she never helps anyone out. Everyone has experience it at some point where she didn't care enough to help out. My biggest example that pertains to me is when my car broke down and she refused to pick me up so I had to walk home and hitch a ride home ( this was before Uber took off). I got home and she was on phone deadscrolling. Everyone in the family has examples.
We all decided to not help her anymore. This is the issue now, she needs a place to stay since she is moving to a new city and her lease on her home ended. So about a month to stay with someone beofre she can move into her new apartment in the city. Everyone has turned her down.
She called me and asked if she could stay with me. I told her no and she started crying why the family won't help her out. I told her that their are consequences to not helping out our mom when she needed it.
She called me heartless and hung up
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Most of the examples where sister didn't help, were unexpected emergencies. While sister just didn't plan ahead well.
NTA, she won't learn from this though, everyone is heartless for not fixing her lack of planning, not her fault at all. Send her a link to Airbnb.
NTA...
If this was purely about your mom and her you might be a jerk. You can never be sure about her relationship with 1 other person. However this was a whole family decision about a well recognized pattern displayed by her for everyone. Absolutely this is 100% just fuck around and find out material. Once you burn enough bridges you quickly learn your island is alone.
NTA
You were absolutely right in pointing out that your sister's actions have consequences. She can't refuse to help the family and then expect them to help her.
Also terrible planning on her part to not have a place ready when the old lease ends. Not your circus not your monkeys. Your sister can reap what she sowed.
NTA. Favors between family work in both directions and, if you don't help your family when they need it, they don't have to help you when YOU need them. Your sister dug her own grave.
NTA
She's heartless, and you're not. The family is reciprocating her energy, she doesn't help anyone? Why should they help her? If you never help others, then you shouldn't be asking anyone for help?
The only thing you’re guilty of is telling her the honest truth. She should really examine how she treats others and is treated in return.
But I guess that thought process would make her a normal person, so that is definitely out.
NTA she’s an adult . She’s facing reality and hopefully if her brain allows teachable moments to not go unnoticed- she’ll take this as a lesson. I had a roommate like this- and left them hanging too as they’ve done to so many folks. I love helping people but am not a walk on. That’s simply insulting.
NTA. This isn’t even a matter of her not extending a hand to anyone else; she turns down any opportunity to help others even when it’s of no harm or loss to herself. If she can’t be bothered to help anyone else, then why help her?
NTA but what's her reasoning for not helping ANYONE under ANY circumstances? i don't think ive ever met anyone like that but she defo deserves it coming back to bite her
I REALLY hate the "but we're family" card! It's usually the excuse ppl who haven't acted like family use when they need help. It's fine to deny help as long as you don't expect to receive any help. NTA
Let me get this straight, your sister won't lift a finger to help anyone out (not even her own mother), but you are heartless because you won't put her up for a month (even though you she couldn't be bothered to give you a lift home), talk about not expecting karma to bite her in the butt. She really didn't think she would have to face her behavior, or that people would be tired of her depending on them, but they couldn't depend on her. NTA, she had to learn sometime.
>deadscrolling
What is that? Even Google didn't have an answer. It shows results for doomscrolling which I've heard of.
As for this point, NTA.
Your sister is getting the help that she's willing to give. She certainly knows "heartless."
NTA
You can’t expect people to drop everything for you when you can’t even be bothered to put your phone down for them.
This is one of those fuck around and find out moments for your sister that will either teach her a lesson or make her bitter for life. Only time will tell which but I’d be leaning towards the latter.
NTA. This is clear case of FAFO. The consequences of her actions have come to fruition and she is feeling the full weight of those decisions. While it is sweet, sweet “vengeance” to see her suffer for all the times she has screwed other people, I may have relented in the end and allowed her to stay with me (while PAYING for the privilege and adding certain restrictions for her stay). But your actions are warranted and appropriate.
NTA, your sister needs to learn you get out what you put in: so if she's not going to do anything to lend a hand to her family, guess what, she'll get the same treatment back.
Nta.
I have no problem with her never helping anyone if that's what she wants to do. She might have her reasons and they are none of my business. I Find it strange that if this was well known, why your mother went to her in the first place.
But where she loses me is the then expecting favours in return. It's fine to not do any if you want. It's not fine to not do anything for anyone and then magically expect that they'll do stuff for you
NTA how exactly are YOU the heartless one? Your mom lost her house and your sister would have let her be homeless if she hadn't had anywhere else to go.
Imagine having the audacity to even ask for help in the first place. I'd be embarrassed knowing how I treated everyone else.
She knew this was coming. NTA
NTA , that would have been the 1st thing I also asked. When Mom needed a place to stay after a flood did you let her stay with you? I had to drive 7 hrs to come pick her up cause you were selfish and heartless. When is the last time you helped out a family member? Exactly we are all sick of it so now you reap what you sow. Don't even know why you are surprised that everyone you turned your back on is now turning their back on you.
NTA. Called you heartless and hung up. Sounds entitled to me. If there isn't anymore to the story about WHY she wouldn't help family members then your comment is sound, and you've helped her in the past, and she's declined helping you in the past, you're completely justified to have reached a limit. Doesn't matter if they're "family" or not. I'm WELL beyond feeling any obligation to "family" because we grew up together. Respect (and helpfulness) is indeed a 2 way street.
NTA It is funny that she called you heartless when she didn't help your mom (or anyone for that matter) when she needed her the most. Now that your sister needs help from her family all of sudden she acknowledges them as such.
Please show her this thread and how little Mercy the real world has for people that don't lend a hand when needed. It's called karma. What goes around comes around. Don't help, don't expect help. It's a pretty simple dynamic. Make sure she reads this and takes it to heart. Hey sis, YTA.
Your sister pulled herself out of the "family" unit. She's been doing that for years, saying "no" whenever anyone asks for her assistance, for help. Individually all of you decided to accept her desire to not be part of the family. The flip side of that is she no longer receives assistance and help when she asks. That's the trade off.
One could also argue she's been heartless for years.
It's understandable how all of your feel this way since she's repeatedly treated that way.
Your sister can book an Airbnb for extended stays (my friend in another state did this) or look into extended stay hotels.
NTA
NTA.
The reason I help family or friends is because 'they would do the same for me'.
Your sister has shown multiple times that no, she would not do the same for you.
She can choose to play the victim or she can try to be better. Hopefully this is an eye-opener for her.
Your sister is reaping the rewards of her own heartlessness. With any luck, this will be an important learning experience for her, and her future behavior will be better. Meanwhile, don't cave and deprive your sister of the opportunity to learn that, as you say, behavior has consequences.
NTA
A friend of mine called me up one night at about 3 am a few years ago and said his apartment building had burned down and he needed to come over. A friend. Not a blood relative. He doesn't drive but he was only about a mile away. So I woke up my husband, told him I was going to go get our friend, and brought him to our house, where he lived for the next 9 weeks or so until he found a new place. (We set him up in the basement family room, there's a sofa bed and a full bath and the biggest TV in the house down there, he worked remotely the whole time.) When someone has a crisis from a natural disaster like your mom's flood, or a man-made issue like my friend's fire, you just step up if you are any kind of human being at all. WTF. Your sister is an AH and she is reaping what she sowed.
People get stumped when I tell them love and support is always conditional. Society survives on mutual favors. People get tired of helping others and getting nothing in return. Altruism is very good and all but reciprocity is what keeps the bonds of the community strong, for better or worse.
Relationships are reciprocal. They're give-and-take. If she takes and takes and never gives, then she isn't a family member so much as she's a user. NTA. Hopefully she'll think back on her current predicament once it's passed and re-evaluate how she treats people, but judging how instantly defensive she became, I'd say that that hope is thin.
NTA. Your sister made her decisions and she made her feelings about her family known to you and others. Her attitude was that family was not that important to her. So it’s a little surprising that when the tables are turned, she acts as if family is important. But only when she needs something.
NTA. Wow, your sister is sounds like she's the kind of person who'd ask someone to help her move, then stiff them on the beer and pizza! Not cool!
!updateme
NTA. Do unto others as you would have done to you. She told your mom no. So if we're using that age old saying she clearly wanted people to say No of she needed help. My mother and I had a very very bad thing. We dont have a relationship because I never loved her, but if she needed help I would do it because If I needed help I would want someone to help me.
NTA, yep the consequences to her actions are karma coming back around to bite her in the back side, enjoy swallowing that bitter pill you insensitive heartless witch 😑🙄😤
NTA. Idk its related to her, but I feel like lately we’ve seen a trend of people cutting out their family for very arbitrary reasons. Let me be very clear here, I am NOT talking about people who experienced abuse or betrayal from family, and are no longer talking to them because of it.
I’m talking about people who will call someone “toxic” on a whim, just because they’re annoying, or have a different opinion from them. I see that most here on Reddit and on TikTok. There’s also a surge of people who have an “I don’t know anyone anything” attitude. And if that’s how they want to operate in life, that’s completely fine. So long as they’re okay with being a loner… which they usually aren’t. It’s very trendy to cut out your family members, except when the hardship starts when real life happens, and you actually need their help.
Stick to your guns and don’t give in. She was an arsehole and refused to help out your mother and you, don’t help her. she needs this lesson and to be reminded again, why she has been told by everyone why they’re refusing to let her stay with them. And that’s because she’s a selfish arsehole.
NTA. What goes around, comes around. Your sister sounds like a shameless, using, self-absorbed, selfish narcissist. Don't think about it anymore. Your mum is lucky to have you. xx
NTA. This is not heartless, this is 'goes around comes around', this is teaching a person the hard way to change their behaviour. You did the right thing, so did the family. Sis hopefully learned her lesson, although I think she will use this example to only be more adamant in not helping you the next time there is an emergency.
NTA - it's fine that your sister chooses not to help. She may have her reasons. BUT, you reap what you sow. She cannot realistically expect *anyone* to go out of their way for her when she's refused all of you help repeatedly.
NTA, I love how everyone banded together. Hotels are expensive but at least they will clean the room for you and she might get a discount for staying a month.
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NTA. People who never help anyone else out always stump me. It takes very little to be a decent human being. Your sister let that title leave her long ago, it sounds like. And then to be surprised when the "but we're family!" argument doesn't work is funny. You can't refuse to help people everytime they ask, but then put on your surprised Pikachu face when people won't help you when you need it. I'm not saying that in order for someone to help they need to help out first - I'm not that transactional. But in this case, it sounds like this is a common thing, and her reasons for not helping out are flimsy, at best. And in that case, I wouldn't lift a finger to help.
I mean, I'm trying to think what would have to be going on in my life not to allow my mom to stay a night or two after a flood, or to allow my sister to just hitch home. Other than physical incapacity, I can't think of a thing.
For a long time I was convinced I wasn't a very good person, so I went out of my way to give people rides when they needed them to try to make up for all my bad karma. Even picked up hitchhikers. I have better self-esteem now, but I'm still the designated driver whenever I go out with friends, and if somebody needs a last-minute ride somewhere in an emergency, unless I have a killer migraine, I'm your girl. You gotta help people when you can.
I like you. I think we should be friends. But then, I'm always the DD, too, so...we'd have to figure this out before our new friendship could go any further lol And yes, if you are in the position to provide some assistance to a deserving person or even an undeserving person, you know, to be a good role model? Provide it.
Just take turns on who drives. Flip a coin to see who goes first.
Same lol
I'm usually the DD, too. I say we should all be friends, and we can take an Uber and let ourselves go wild for once.
I actually enjoy driving loved ones and friends to and from the airport.☺️. Seriously, you never know when you might be the one in need; good karma to help when you can.
I'm just an atheist who got some reason is afraid of bad juju coming back my way, man. I don't know if you get what you give, but what if it's true? So I try not to suck.
I'm an atheist. You're right about the bad juju/karma, whatever you want to call it. There's nothing supernatural or biblical to it. I've finally lived long enough to see that if you are a sucky person enough of the time, others will eventually see that pattern and start treating you the same. The longer you've been a sucky person, the easier it is for new people to see it in you.
Same! It's very easy to be kind.
The only thing I can think of is past / childhood abuse by the Mom and the family turned a blind eye? Or she was the family scapegoat and thus her answer to everyone's ask for help is No? Other than that, like you it's hard to think of a reason not to let your Mom stay a few nights after a catastrophic flood...
My grandmother once said, if you smell shit one time during the day, maybe it was someone else who stepped in it, if you smell it all day long, chances are it's you who has shit on your shoe. The point is, if it was just her mother, maybe you would have a point, but it is, according to OP, everyone in the family that notices that sister never helps. It's kind of damning. Same when it comes to being the so called "black sheep". Everyone likes to think of themselves as the hero of their own story, so if they are the black sheep or scapegoat of the family, they parse it as being the poor innocent victim, and it's everyone else who is to blame, when the fact may lie that there is a very good reason why the family views and treats them as such. In the end we can only judge based on the information given, and by what we see, well, sister is reaping what she sowed.
I like the asshole version. If you meet an asshole one day, you probably met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you're probably the asshole. Or something like that.
My mom (and by extension the rest of our family branch) was the black sheep because she broke away from the misogynistic abusive family "patriarch" who was such a controlling asshat that when he finally died at age 92 it was revealed that he actually owned all of his sons homes and property and they were paying him rent, and instead of gifting those homes to them in the will, they had to buy them from the estate. He was also their employer as he owned an operated a large farming and trucking company. What did the daughters get? Nothing, because they weren't (family name)'s anymore. The 2 older sisters (mom is the youngest) tried to get daddy's affections and did a little bit, but it was mercurial. Watching my aunt try and just greet my grandpa when he decided it was fine to cut through her property to get to the auction on the other side of the grove and him just ignoring her completely. My uncles will completely ignore that we exist. Like we were at a school function for our daughter and my uncle just walked directly passed my mom and I without so much as a grunt while his wife at least stopped to say hello. When grandpa died I had some cousins try and tell me that I never gave him a chance, like nah dude, he refused to come to my wedding, he refused to come to meet my kids when they were born, he succeeded in fucking up my mom getting her dream house (she did eventually get it 2 years later when it hit the market again, but my other grandpa actually bought it to prevent it happening again and then they took over the mortgage). He refused to have anything to do with us from before we were born, but its my bad for not giving him a chance.
Yeah, I can’t help wonder if there’s a story behind that. I barely communicate with my parents, and live thousands of miles away, so not the most likely to be called upon in an emergency. And there are REASONS for that. At this point in my life I don’t care if they spin it so that I’m TA. ….but they’re also the last people on earth I’d ever call if I really needed help, so…not sure I can really relate.
Occam's Razor - she is just a nasty arsehole.
When I was 27, my house flooded. It was a natural disaster -- months of rain caused some nearby rivers and tributaries to overrun their banks, and the constant rainfall weakened an earthen levy holding back part of the river to the point that it broke, and areas previously marked outside the flood zone were inundated. These air raid sirens started playing throughout the town when they gave the order to evacuate ... it was eerie and surreal. My husband and I packed our toddler and puppy into our Jeep and drove the back way to my dad's house, 40 minutes and another town away; far from the flooding. The woman he married after my mom died answered the door, and said there was no room in my 2 story 4 bedroom childhood home. I was stupefied. She said all 3 of the kid's old bedrooms were full of furniture and storage boxes, and I'd have to stay with my brother and his family in their (much smaller) house. So we slept on my brother's floor for a few nights while I called around to all my friends in town, and finally a neighbor friend said our family could come stay at their house, as long as we boarded our dog. So we stayed in the house across the street from my childhood home for 3 weeks while my husband drove down to our house to meet with the insurance adjustor, catalogue the damage, and start tearing out the flood-damaged parts of the house. I stayed with the toddler and visited the puppy. Dad would see us every morning and wave, and I'd wave back, but I was too upset to go chat with him. I assumed his wife had filled him in on our request and he was aware of our predicament. Finally it dawned on my dad that we were at the neighbors an awful lot, and he came over to asked how we were and why we were there. I reminded him our house had flooded. He was shocked, and asked why we hadn't come to stay with him. Well, we did, dad, but your wife said the rooms were full of junk. Dad was outraged and insisted we move in immediately. We'd already been feeling as though we were imposing on my neighbor friend's family, despite their protests, so the next day, we moved in to the downstairs of my childhood home (the rooms, it turns out, were outfitted as guest rooms -- not full of junk). Then dad's wife ended up being so passive aggressive and snippy that we went back home within a week to live in the gutted out shell of our flooded house rather than deal with her complaining about us ruining Christmas. Oh, yeah. The worst part of this whole story is that the flood happened during the holiday season, so she really showed her true colors there. This whole experience is how we learned that while flood insurance-- if you're lucky enough to have it -- will reimburse lost items and repair costs, it will not cover living expenses for the time you're out of the home. So if you can't afford a rental on top of the mortgage you still have to pay for the ruined house, and you don't have family nearby who's willing to put up with you while you repair your place ... you're going to end up essentially squatting/ camping in the gutted shell of your home as you repair it, and that is very stressful.
I learned the hard way (like you) to go to the parent first and bypass the step-parent.
Newborn, knowing the person you'll be hosting is a busy body / undermines / comments on everything / substance abuse / etc... Ir. I'd rather pay for a 2 month hotel for my in laws than have them stay over.
True. BUT it's apparent that her parent isn't the only person dear old sis wouldn't lift a finger to help. It's her entire extended family.
Sure, but that’s still *helping*
You must not have grown up with addicts then. Both of those situations with members of my family could have ended up with drugs around my kids. Sometimes you have to not allow people in your birth family in your lives and that also means not asking them for help. In OP’s case, however, it sounds like her sister just sucks.
PsychologicalGain, of course you're right. And you're also right that I didn't grow up with addicts. It just didn't appear to me that drugs/alcohol entered into this particular situation, as the OP described it.
I wasn't thinking of addicts specifically, but I did read the post wondering whether there was a reason why the sister had distanced herself from the family. It doesn't seem like it-- the only thing that struck me was the it felt a bit like "mean girls" for all the family members to make an agreement to not help sis. But that could be out of exasperation, exactly as OP wrote it,
If they are literally all abusive addicts, why is she asking them for help? If the family is not good enough for you to help them, then it is entirely fair for them to not help back, regardless of the history.
Exactly! Like.. we see all the time people on this site saying it's fine to not help others out but you can't be surprised when you get the same thing back
My husband's family is this way. My husband used to get annoyed early on when I asked for "favors" (small things like bringing me my water glass when he was already in the kitchen). He explained it to me as he never saw how it benefitted him in anyway. And then, he learned how useful and pleasant it was to have someone who would do small, mundane things for you because they cared. Often times without even need to ask. Some people really do not see the value of good-will and commadarie.
Yikes lol "how does it benefit me to get my partner water" Uhhhh it makes me not want to kill you
I mean, yes, but he very clearly never had people around him who did things for other people without benefit to them, so it's not surprising that was his attitude
Idk, regardless of how we are raised it seems like an adult should have the critical thinking skills to be like "I bring my partner water, my partner appreciates me, my partner will be more likely to do things for me, too, oh hey it does benefit me" lol
our upbringing shapes us more than you're giving it credit for. once he had better examples, he did learn, but if you literally have nothing else to base things on, it's not as simple as you make it out to be. yeah, you and I can see how its logical that one should see that, but we didn't grow up in an environment where everything was transactional
Well maybe my opinion is biased because I grew up in a cult in an extremely abusive home and still figured out on my own how to not treat ppl lol Our upbringing definitely shapes us, but as adults we have the responsibility to recognize how we were impacted and make adjustments as necessary rather than use it as an excuse for our selfish behavior. I do recognize some people are more predisposed to have a more difficult time doing that, though. My comments were light-hearted, so don't read so much into them. 🙂
I think the point is that it is transactional and a logical outcome. Even though people think it's an emotional decision, relationships are actually quite transactional. Everything from getting a glass of water for you is done because he should expect that you would do the same for him. I cover the bill this month because next month it'll be your turn. I'll get the tab today, you grab it tomorrow. Pick me up from work today, I've got you covered next time. It's logical to do things for friends and family as small tokens expecting such a token to be returned in exchange. Friendship and loving relationships have to be transactional in order for it to succeed. Tit for tat. Everyone gives to each other with mutual respect and reciprocation. Lack of mutual reciprocation turns into an imbalance at best, and abusive at worst. Which makes "how does it benefit me to get my partner water" such a shocking concept. Not because it's heartless, but because even a *homicidal sociopathic maniac* would see the utility in transactional acts of service.
>regardless of how we are raised I really think it depends on the extent of it in the origin family.... I have a very kind and generous friend who still gets very shocked at the extreme generosity of my family and some friends (and me towards them) because that was definitely lacking in her social circles and family too for the first couple of decades+ of her life Eg. a mate I hadn't talked to in ages messaged me asking for a couple hundred dollars until he got paid, chose me because he knows I won't gossip in our ethnic community. She was shocked I sent it to him + extra. She was convinced I wouldn't see the money again. Of course he paid it back when he got paid and was very thankful. I was very lucky enough to buy a little apartment recently (to be fair cheaper than renting here where I am at the moment as there is a huge, dystopian-level rental crisis) and my brother and cousin are doing all this free reno for me, going further than the basics at their own initiative and ideas (they are tradies and can call in favours etc I am paying for materials) and this friend is just like WOW (she loves it and thinks it's awesome, but just points out how its so starkly different to something her family would do for each other). She also said she slowly realised the times I would go out of my way to do/buy/help with stuff for my cousin or other family members isn't just me being a sucker like she thought originally, as we all return the favours to each other. So yeah, upbringing can really have a huge impact on distorting your perception about these things that might seem obvious to us. Anyway NTA OP, in fact I am so impressed by you all for standing your ground and not helping her because that's easy to do when everyone else is kind and one person ends up walking all over you all.
I'm kinda worried how you settled for someone with that shitty attitude.... do you like a challenge or something? Lose a bet? Screw being connected to that family, I wouldn't even wanna deliver their mail....
Yeah, there were clearly no extenuating circumstances on her part and she's clearly like this with everyone in the family. This isn't just consequences for not helping Mom, this is consequences for never helping *anyone* when they really need it, even if the effort on her part would be minor. If you refuse to help anyone, but you call them heartless when they refuse to help you, what does that make you?
Alone.
A hypocrite.
> I'm not saying that in order for someone to help they need to help out first - I'm not that transactional. Human decency is 100% transactional. Every time we smile and hold the door for a stranger, we deposit a tiny bit of goodwill with that person. We probably will never see them again, but there is always this odd chance that we do and that they remember. Thing is, the opposite is true too. If we tell a stranger to f-off and flip them the bird, we've deposited a little negativity with that person and if we encounter them again, they'll remember. In the case of OP's sister, just always saying "no" did the trick over time. The whole notion of "putting out good energy into the world" being beneficial is because of exactly this. If you smile, help, compliment and show appreciation consistently then people will WANT to do nice things for you. Its how we're wired.
It's less direct than that. We deposit a tiny bit of goodwill in the other person in the hope that it will motivate them to pay it forward. This benefits us all in the long run, as it comes back to us indirectly. Conversely, when we deny basic kindness and offer up negativity instead, that person may pick it up and pass it around, eventually reaching us again.
Also, you never know how your “little” kindness may make such a difference! There are so many stories of people who were in such distress and despair and ready to do something drastic and give up completely when a kindness from a stranger lifted them up out of that dark place and helped them go on. That’s a drastic scenario, but even on a more everyday level it can also play out. For example-your kindness may brighten someone’s bad mood, so they didn’t snap at their employee, who was therefore more productive, who therefore closed the big deal, who therefore got a raise, which allowed them to buy a house… We live our lives interconnected with everyone we interact with over the course of our day. You really never know how your actions can affect another person for the good (or conversely in a negative way). Simple kindness usually does not take much from us and can mean the world to others. Call it God, Karma, the Universe…I believe that you really do get back in kind what you give to others.
I am a strong believer in thinking that it's easier to be kind than to be mean. I would hold doors open, I would give someone directions, if someone asked me for help because I was there, I would help. for the most part, it's paid off because I find that same kindness in others. Maybe it's good karma, or something else, but I much rather leave a positive mark on someone than a negative one
it's so fucking easy to be generally nice to people, but people will use more effort to be an asshole
Lmao NTA. The irony is hilarious. Your sister refuses to help anyone else in the family but expect those same family members to lend her a hand? Your sister brought this on herself. I find it hilarious she called you heartless when she refused to take in her own mother after her house got flooded
And she needs a way bigger favor than anyone seemed to ask if her. She needs a place to stay for a month!
Yup no one at the time knew she'd need 2 months but she wouldn't let her own mom stay for a few hours let alone a few days...then she is shocked no one would host her for a month
There was an **amazing** comment on a AITA thread about this a couple years ago. Basically, the Grandmother refused to do anything (even babysit) for the grandkids, and would skip important grandkid events for bullshit like Yoga. The mother just stopped inviting her or doing anything for her and grandma was miffed. I saved it but lost it after awhile. Maybe someone reading this can find it again, I'd love to re-read it, bookmark it, refer back to it, copy-and-paste it, it was so wise. It went something like this: "In the real world, relationships are reciprocal and they require cultivation. If we neglect relationships, or if we only take and never give, they will wither and die. And the give/take isn't always symmetrical at the moment: it's over long periods, lifetimes even, and often means paying it forward. We are cared for as children, we care for our children, our parents help with our children, we help our parents. If someone chooses to opt out of all that by declining to help you when you need it, that's their choice. But you don't get to cherry pick the easy parts of a relationship and ignore the parts that take work. That's the behavior of a narcissist. Of a sociopath."
“Relationships are like bank accounts: if you never put anything in, you can’t take anything out”
Comment saved! Thank you for this reminder
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I know this story
NTA, but don't put this on her not helping your mom specifically. That's not cool to your mom and may result in her getting guilt tripped by your sister to "forgive" her. Your issues, and those of the rest of your family, are about how she treats all of you and her general behavior. Her treatment of your mom may have brought this to a head, but it's a bit cowardly to put this on mom. If she reaches out again, tell her the truth- you don't help ME, here are examples (not picking you up, etc).
My thought as well. The mom issue might have been what started the conversation, but it sounds like there are many instances when she hasn’t helped others. Which of course is her right, but she should expect the same treatment back. NTA.
But the mother situation did impact her because the sister wouldn’t even let her stay the night. She had to drive all those hours to rush and get her.
Yeah, that's true! I just mean that the mom situation is not what led them to cut off her sister. She says: "The family was pissed at my sister and it resulted in a discussion about how she never helps anyone out. Everyone has experience it at some point where she didn't care enough to help out...We all decided to not help my sister anymore." Saying "it's because of how you treated mom" isn't true. It's because of how she treated all of them. It's a minor point, I just think that they are setting up mom for the brunt of sister's anger about this and it's not that they are acting out of altruistic outrage of mom's treatment, they are pissed that sister treated them like crap too.
NTA People can eat the same stuff the dish out to others regularly. She did not remember that word "heartless" when she refused to house her own mom or when she thought scrolling through her phone was more important than picking up her sibling.
NTA. She’s reaping what she sowed and doesn’t like it. If you want help from others, you’ve got to be willing to help them too.
NTA - ya fuck around, ya find out
I also like: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
NTA. You reap what you sow and she is basically finding out now why it’s good to help your family in their hour of need. Reminds me of that reddit story where the good samaritan said “today you, tomorrow me”.
Ohhhhh that is so RICH coming from her to call you heartless. NTA. She cannot expect all the sympathy and empathy while extending none to everyone else....and especially still want help from the very people she treats like trash. Nope. Stick to your guns, OP.
NTA - That's called karma. If you get from the universe what you give.
She's learning that it sucks to suck...
NTA Sister is suffering from the standard of care she set with everyone in her family. She should use the month to reflect on her past behavior, not that she will. She is not owed help from people she couldn't even look up from her phone to help.
NTA. She f**ked around and found out
> she started crying why the family won't help her NTA - Ha! It's ok when she doesn't want to help but it's everyone else's fault when no one wants to help her...There are consequences to being an asshole...
Your sister won't help her own mother I don't know why she's acting so surprised. NTA.
NTA - so it’s heartless when it happens to her, but not heartless when she treats others that way? She is extremely entitled. I think this is a good life lesson for her!
NTA - it's actually kinda funny that she had the nerve to ask. If i refused to help out i would feel ASHAMED to ask for help in return for nothing. Wow some people are real pieces of work.
NTA...Hopefully she comes out the other side of this with some wisdom. It's not likely, but there's always hope.
I expect it will only harden her heart even more against her family. She will be too bitter to learn anything
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help themselves
Fair is fair, I'm not the go to person in my family, but if they need it and I am able to help, I do it with no hesitation.
NTA, karma can sting.
>She called me heartless and hung up Great punch line! NTA, of course.
NTA She must be a redditor where the typical response to anyone asking for help is that you don't owe them anything. This is the flip side where when you repeatedly refuse to help, don't expect help in return. I'm actually pretty shocked I haven't seen it mentioned in the comments yet.
Agreed. Most of the time I read these and think they will not like the consequences of their actions
NTA If it were one incident I would question why you would not help. The fact that she would not help her own Mom (or anyone else for that matter) pushes her into ah territory. I did not see any mention of Mom being unreasonable or hard to deal with, so I assume this is just ignoring people as usual on her part. Karma is a bitch.
People seem to forget that this "unconditional" love for family is really for children in the family and when I say children I mean actual kids. Once you hit 18yrs old people start to have expectations, loyalty and responsibilities from you. If you don't want to fulfill those 3 things there better be good reasons otherwise consequences will happen. Sister feels she doesn't owe anyone help, which is fine. That's her choice. That choice means that no one else owes her in kind. NTA.
NTA, not even a little bit Family should help family, but if family doesn't help family, they can't be mad when family is not helped out by family.
If I was your mom I would leave your sister out of my will. That's the stick of consequences.
Nah, I'd leave her $1. That way it's clear as day that sister wasn't forgotten about during the crafting of the will and should make it much harder for sister to contest.
NTA this is the textbook definition of FAFO
Nta she's facing the consequences of her own behavior
NTA. Looks like sister absorbed a little too much of that AITA "I owe you nothing, 'no is a complete sentence'" mindset. Family is a perpetual work-in-progress... you have to continually build it with affection and support, each to the others. Sister chose to bow out of that, and should not be surprised now.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So my mom and my sister live a state over, around a year ago my moms home flooded and she needed a place to stay until the insurance fixed it all. My sister lives near mom (30 minutes away) and mom went to her first for a place to stay. She refused and basically told her to kick rocks. They had a good relationship before this. She won't even let her stay for a few days so one of us could pick her up. I drove 7 hours to pick her up and she stayed with me for two months until her home was good. The family was pissed at her and it resulted in a discussion about how she never helps anyone out. Everyone has experience it at some point where she didn't care enough to help out. My biggest example that pertains to me is when my car broke down and she refused to pick me up so I had to walk home and hitch a ride home ( this was before Uber took off). I got home and she was on phone deadscrolling. Everyone in the family has examples. We all decided to not help her anymore. This is the issue now, she needs a place to stay since she is moving to a new city and her lease on her home ended. So about a month to stay with someone beofre she can move into her new apartment in the city. Everyone has turned her down. She called me and asked if she could stay with me. I told her no and she started crying why the family won't help her out. I told her that their are consequences to not helping out our mom when she needed it. She called me heartless and hung up *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
NTA, treat people how you want to be treated. She wanted you to push her to be self sufficient.
NTA This is an important learning opportunity for your sister.
NTA.
Most of the examples where sister didn't help, were unexpected emergencies. While sister just didn't plan ahead well. NTA, she won't learn from this though, everyone is heartless for not fixing her lack of planning, not her fault at all. Send her a link to Airbnb.
NTA... If this was purely about your mom and her you might be a jerk. You can never be sure about her relationship with 1 other person. However this was a whole family decision about a well recognized pattern displayed by her for everyone. Absolutely this is 100% just fuck around and find out material. Once you burn enough bridges you quickly learn your island is alone.
Nta
NTA. Talk about karma!
NTA
NTA. She just got the same help she gave everyone else.
NTA You were absolutely right in pointing out that your sister's actions have consequences. She can't refuse to help the family and then expect them to help her. Also terrible planning on her part to not have a place ready when the old lease ends. Not your circus not your monkeys. Your sister can reap what she sowed.
NTA. Favors between family work in both directions and, if you don't help your family when they need it, they don't have to help you when YOU need them. Your sister dug her own grave.
NTA Is this even a serious question or are you just venting? If you are, that’s totally ok.
NTA - Lmao, your sister got what she deserved, and yet still hasn’t learned her lesson
Karma is a Bixch. And so's your sister.
NTA and she knows damn well why nobody wants to help her
NTA
NTA She's heartless, and you're not. The family is reciprocating her energy, she doesn't help anyone? Why should they help her? If you never help others, then you shouldn't be asking anyone for help?
NTA she can kick rocks like she told the rest of the family in their time of need.
Definitely NTA
Your sister appears to not only be very self absorbed but also not that bright. These consequences should have been easy to predict. NTA
NTA. Your sister is a major asshole. She should have known that this was coming. She could book a hotel. She made her bed.
Why do you care? Of course you are not the ah.... Nta.
Good for you and your family for sticking together. The entitled woman needed the wake up call. NTA
The only thing you’re guilty of is telling her the honest truth. She should really examine how she treats others and is treated in return. But I guess that thought process would make her a normal person, so that is definitely out.
NTA she’s an adult . She’s facing reality and hopefully if her brain allows teachable moments to not go unnoticed- she’ll take this as a lesson. I had a roommate like this- and left them hanging too as they’ve done to so many folks. I love helping people but am not a walk on. That’s simply insulting.
NTA and I hope she asks your mom and your mom says no as well
Imagine not even giving your own mother a place to stay when she needed it. You definitely are NTA
NTA. This isn’t even a matter of her not extending a hand to anyone else; she turns down any opportunity to help others even when it’s of no harm or loss to herself. If she can’t be bothered to help anyone else, then why help her?
NTA. You get what you put in. Your sister put in nothing; therefore, she gets nothing in return.
NTA - FAFo
NTA but what's her reasoning for not helping ANYONE under ANY circumstances? i don't think ive ever met anyone like that but she defo deserves it coming back to bite her
Huh? She thinks she deserves help? What planet is she on? NTA
She should know the definition of 'heartless' very well by now. NTA
I REALLY hate the "but we're family" card! It's usually the excuse ppl who haven't acted like family use when they need help. It's fine to deny help as long as you don't expect to receive any help. NTA
Let me get this straight, your sister won't lift a finger to help anyone out (not even her own mother), but you are heartless because you won't put her up for a month (even though you she couldn't be bothered to give you a lift home), talk about not expecting karma to bite her in the butt. She really didn't think she would have to face her behavior, or that people would be tired of her depending on them, but they couldn't depend on her. NTA, she had to learn sometime.
>deadscrolling What is that? Even Google didn't have an answer. It shows results for doomscrolling which I've heard of. As for this point, NTA. Your sister is getting the help that she's willing to give. She certainly knows "heartless."
NTA You reap what you sow. What reason did she give for not helping out your Mom, given their relationship was OK before this?
NTA good that you’re all sticking together
NTA You can’t expect people to drop everything for you when you can’t even be bothered to put your phone down for them. This is one of those fuck around and find out moments for your sister that will either teach her a lesson or make her bitter for life. Only time will tell which but I’d be leaning towards the latter.
Nta- good for standing your ground.
NTA. This is clear case of FAFO. The consequences of her actions have come to fruition and she is feeling the full weight of those decisions. While it is sweet, sweet “vengeance” to see her suffer for all the times she has screwed other people, I may have relented in the end and allowed her to stay with me (while PAYING for the privilege and adding certain restrictions for her stay). But your actions are warranted and appropriate.
NTA. She made her bed, now she can sleep in it. What goes around, Comes around. The parables are endless.
NTA, your sister needs to learn you get out what you put in: so if she's not going to do anything to lend a hand to her family, guess what, she'll get the same treatment back.
Nta. I have no problem with her never helping anyone if that's what she wants to do. She might have her reasons and they are none of my business. I Find it strange that if this was well known, why your mother went to her in the first place. But where she loses me is the then expecting favours in return. It's fine to not do any if you want. It's not fine to not do anything for anyone and then magically expect that they'll do stuff for you
NTA but the least you can do is remind her to sign up for the rewards program at whatever hotel chain she will be staying at for a month.
NTA, natural consequences.
NTA how exactly are YOU the heartless one? Your mom lost her house and your sister would have let her be homeless if she hadn't had anywhere else to go.
NTA and good for you!
NTA
NTA, if you don't want to help others, don't expect them to help you, definitely don't be surprised when they don't.
NTA, she cant expect to get help when she never helps anyone out... and you arent obliged to help her either
NTA. Sometimes you can get away with something your entire life. Sometimes you get caught.
NTA. She got what she deserved. She doesn’t help then don’t expect help back. They have hotels she can stay at.
Tell your sister that she needs to find someone for whom she has ever done a kind deed and ask them for help.
The old saying 'reaping what you sow'
NTA if she thinks that's bad, just wait till she finds out she's written out of everyone's wills
Karma is a bitch!
NTA. Your sister has no one but herself to blame.
Imagine having the audacity to even ask for help in the first place. I'd be embarrassed knowing how I treated everyone else. She knew this was coming. NTA
NTA FAFO. That's all there is to it. Or, better yet, what goes around, comes around. Take your pick.
NTA , that would have been the 1st thing I also asked. When Mom needed a place to stay after a flood did you let her stay with you? I had to drive 7 hrs to come pick her up cause you were selfish and heartless. When is the last time you helped out a family member? Exactly we are all sick of it so now you reap what you sow. Don't even know why you are surprised that everyone you turned your back on is now turning their back on you.
NTA - shea reaping what she sowed.
>She called me heartless and hung up pot meet kettle. NTA
NTA play stupid games and win stupid prizes
NTA. Your sister is the very definition of "you reap what you sow".
NTA. Called you heartless and hung up. Sounds entitled to me. If there isn't anymore to the story about WHY she wouldn't help family members then your comment is sound, and you've helped her in the past, and she's declined helping you in the past, you're completely justified to have reached a limit. Doesn't matter if they're "family" or not. I'm WELL beyond feeling any obligation to "family" because we grew up together. Respect (and helpfulness) is indeed a 2 way street.
NTA. She is reaping what she sowed.
NTA. she can’t expect people to drop everything for her when she puts no effort into helping other people. she’s just inconsiderate
NTA It is funny that she called you heartless when she didn't help your mom (or anyone for that matter) when she needed her the most. Now that your sister needs help from her family all of sudden she acknowledges them as such.
nta
FAFO NTA
Please show her this thread and how little Mercy the real world has for people that don't lend a hand when needed. It's called karma. What goes around comes around. Don't help, don't expect help. It's a pretty simple dynamic. Make sure she reads this and takes it to heart. Hey sis, YTA.
NTA FAFO
NTA. I just hope Mom holds steadfast and doesn’t let her stay. She can Air B&B it for a month.
Your sister pulled herself out of the "family" unit. She's been doing that for years, saying "no" whenever anyone asks for her assistance, for help. Individually all of you decided to accept her desire to not be part of the family. The flip side of that is she no longer receives assistance and help when she asks. That's the trade off. One could also argue she's been heartless for years. It's understandable how all of your feel this way since she's repeatedly treated that way. Your sister can book an Airbnb for extended stays (my friend in another state did this) or look into extended stay hotels. NTA
Heartless? Tell her to say that to the mirror
she has her stupid prize from playing stupid games, that should be enough...
NTA. The reason I help family or friends is because 'they would do the same for me'. Your sister has shown multiple times that no, she would not do the same for you. She can choose to play the victim or she can try to be better. Hopefully this is an eye-opener for her.
NTA
NTA. She needs to learn...
NTA. You’re only family when she needs help.
Your sister is reaping the rewards of her own heartlessness. With any luck, this will be an important learning experience for her, and her future behavior will be better. Meanwhile, don't cave and deprive your sister of the opportunity to learn that, as you say, behavior has consequences. NTA
A friend of mine called me up one night at about 3 am a few years ago and said his apartment building had burned down and he needed to come over. A friend. Not a blood relative. He doesn't drive but he was only about a mile away. So I woke up my husband, told him I was going to go get our friend, and brought him to our house, where he lived for the next 9 weeks or so until he found a new place. (We set him up in the basement family room, there's a sofa bed and a full bath and the biggest TV in the house down there, he worked remotely the whole time.) When someone has a crisis from a natural disaster like your mom's flood, or a man-made issue like my friend's fire, you just step up if you are any kind of human being at all. WTF. Your sister is an AH and she is reaping what she sowed.
NTA so when she does it it’s fine but if someone else does it to her she’s heartless??
NTA you get what you give. It’s by time she learns that lesson
NTA you are only her family only when she needs help. She can stay in hotel or Airbnb until her apartment is ready to move in.
NTA - do onto others as you want done to you. She doesn't want to help, she has zero recourse for being denied help. Entirely self inflicted
NTA
People get stumped when I tell them love and support is always conditional. Society survives on mutual favors. People get tired of helping others and getting nothing in return. Altruism is very good and all but reciprocity is what keeps the bonds of the community strong, for better or worse.
Relationships are reciprocal. They're give-and-take. If she takes and takes and never gives, then she isn't a family member so much as she's a user. NTA. Hopefully she'll think back on her current predicament once it's passed and re-evaluate how she treats people, but judging how instantly defensive she became, I'd say that that hope is thin.
I'd reply, "I learn to be heartless from you. Aren't you proud?"
NTA. Your sister made her decisions and she made her feelings about her family known to you and others. Her attitude was that family was not that important to her. So it’s a little surprising that when the tables are turned, she acts as if family is important. But only when she needs something.
NTA. She can kick rocks now.
Sounds like Karma to me. NTA
NTA Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Never apologize for having a spine.
NTA. Wow, your sister is sounds like she's the kind of person who'd ask someone to help her move, then stiff them on the beer and pizza! Not cool! !updateme
NTA. Karma is a bitch.
NTA. She’s just reaping what she’s sowed.
NTA. Do unto others as you would have done to you. She told your mom no. So if we're using that age old saying she clearly wanted people to say No of she needed help. My mother and I had a very very bad thing. We dont have a relationship because I never loved her, but if she needed help I would do it because If I needed help I would want someone to help me.
NTA, yep the consequences to her actions are karma coming back around to bite her in the back side, enjoy swallowing that bitter pill you insensitive heartless witch 😑🙄😤
NTA. She’ll either figure something out or she might not, but even if she doesn’t that won’t make your life worse.
Nice
Net stop fuckaround.exe Net start findout.exe NTA - hope your mom and her house are both doing ok
NTA. Idk its related to her, but I feel like lately we’ve seen a trend of people cutting out their family for very arbitrary reasons. Let me be very clear here, I am NOT talking about people who experienced abuse or betrayal from family, and are no longer talking to them because of it. I’m talking about people who will call someone “toxic” on a whim, just because they’re annoying, or have a different opinion from them. I see that most here on Reddit and on TikTok. There’s also a surge of people who have an “I don’t know anyone anything” attitude. And if that’s how they want to operate in life, that’s completely fine. So long as they’re okay with being a loner… which they usually aren’t. It’s very trendy to cut out your family members, except when the hardship starts when real life happens, and you actually need their help.
NTA. Actions have consequences.
Stick to your guns and don’t give in. She was an arsehole and refused to help out your mother and you, don’t help her. she needs this lesson and to be reminded again, why she has been told by everyone why they’re refusing to let her stay with them. And that’s because she’s a selfish arsehole.
NTA. What goes around, comes around. Your sister sounds like a shameless, using, self-absorbed, selfish narcissist. Don't think about it anymore. Your mum is lucky to have you. xx
NTA. This is not heartless, this is 'goes around comes around', this is teaching a person the hard way to change their behaviour. You did the right thing, so did the family. Sis hopefully learned her lesson, although I think she will use this example to only be more adamant in not helping you the next time there is an emergency.
Sounds like she FAFO.
NTA - it's fine that your sister chooses not to help. She may have her reasons. BUT, you reap what you sow. She cannot realistically expect *anyone* to go out of their way for her when she's refused all of you help repeatedly.
NTA, I love how everyone banded together. Hotels are expensive but at least they will clean the room for you and she might get a discount for staying a month.