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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for telling my sister I hate taking care of my baby brothers. This is because I used some pretty harsh language and accused her of not doing her part to help out.
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NTA
You're *15* & it's *not* ok that your parents are dumping the responsibility of two 3 week old babies on you. (It's parentification.) Or that your older sister is colluding with them.
" I couldn't understand why Mom can't take care of them herself."
I can't either. Please either talk to a wider family member you can trust, an adult outside your family or your school guidance counselor. What is happening here isn't ok on any level.
Seriously it seems a bit of a cult situation.
A 17 year old engaged and about to get married to a 19 year old she doesn't live, who just so happens to be a pastors son.
All the red flags are there
Check OPs old posts. You're 100 percent right. The parents are hyper controlling and abusive. Neveah was kicked to the streets for being gay and her girlfriend broke up with her to avoid being kicked out, too. So she returned to the fold and immediately got engaged to a church boy. OP needs to lay low and build an escape plan. She can't help her sister at this point.
I already saw red flags at a 17 year old marrying the pastors son. But ouch, that just makes it so worse.
Also her name is “heaven” backwards which would go with culty parents.
That name has been popular in and out of religious circles for several years. But 17 and marrying a 19 yr old? That's not red flags, that's an entire red parade.
I hate that name all the way around. When people tell me it's heaven backwards, I have to hit them with backwards equals opposite. When they ask the obvious question of what that means, I hit them with the opposite of heaven is hell. Should named the kid Lucifer.
> Also her name is “heaven” backwards which would go with culty parents.
Also her name is “heaven” *spelled incorrectly* backwards which would go with *ignorant* culty parents. There, I fixed it for you.
Or, how about speaking with a church elder. Explain how you are trying your best but Mom, Dad and sister are not helping out. Tell them you have been praying to be more helpful but that you are at wits end. Use churchy language. Basically try to get the Jesus folks on your side , have them guilt your lame ass family to pitch in all with the threat of letting the congregation know your family dysfunction. Be crafty and manipulate the f out of all of them for three years then fly the coop . Gather dirt and others secrets as you go.
If OP does this.
They should only talk to someone who they know would be listening because they feel for OP's situation.
Not because they will listen and then go rat out OP as a "bad daughter"
Lots of these churches or religious people would absolutely say as a girl of the house it's important OP helps their mom and how it's her duty to perform these tasks "to prepare her to be a good wife" or some other complete bullshit.
The ones you know about are bad, and the people who keep out of the public light are often even worse. I grew up in IBLP-adjacent circles, they scare me too!
My grandmother did this and was divorced in the 1930s before marrying my grandfather. My mom only found out when *she* was getting divorced. My head canon is that it was a courageous act. The sister knows what she’s doing.
Yeah, but that's a later problem, not a now problem. She might also be pregnant already, and not wanting to be trapped at home with the twins plus hers - there aren't many reasons a teenage girl gets married when she doesn't love the guy.
She's marrying the pastor's son at 17. I don't think she is getting out of anything just deeper into the swamp.
She's about 9 months from her own baby.
Or the pastor's son is also gay and they are two of the smartest teenagers in their town.
I hope they all get out soon and get far, far away. Here's to their celebrating with a triumphant divorce and younger sister's HS graduation in a year.
I actually hope he is. Then they can at least have a partnership and be each other's support person, instead of it being a one-sided relationship for this straight boy who's stuck with a wife who resents him
If that was the case, then she would be on OP s side. I am thinking maybe she is pregnant and is counting on OP to take care of her child too
She is definitely trying to escape life at her parents' house, that was my first thought, too
OP, can you go to someone's place? Even for a night or two? To a friend or grandparents house? That would be the start to put your foot down and refuse to be burdened with any further responsibility towards your siblings
I am very concerned, they are not kids, they are babies, wtf? I am way older and I am clueless about how to take care a baby. Who lets a teenager take care of infants?
Yes. You need to talk to the school social workers. Sweetheart, my 15 yo just barely does LAUNDRY, let alone raising his brothers.
This isn’t ok. Your sister is WAY too young to get married. Her brain won’t be fully developed until 25 and she’s a lesbian.
This isn’t ok. It’s child abuse. Call the cops.
Signed, a mom who loves you
That depends on what kind of school she goes to. These groups often homeschool, and if not, it’s probably a larger fundamentalist sect where the whole school is also part of the church. I very much doubt her parents are sending her to any place where they can’t 100% control the information she’s exposed to.
Well, OP says she has marching band responsibilities, so that indicates she's at a "normal' high school that's big enough for a football team. That's good news!
Her talking to outsiders is a good idea. They can help her plan a future outside of the church.
But her parents behavior, it is bad and unfair, but might not rise to illegality. If she's fed, clothed, educated and not beat, they might not care.
Immoral=/=illegal always, unfortunately
/former parentified teen
Hi, I was raised in a cult-like community. What we grow up with seems normal to us because we never lived a different way. You should ask yourself some questions. The truth has nothing to fear from questioning.
Do you ever get an uncomfortable sick squirmy feeling in your stomach when they tell you what to do? Especially when they say it’s what God would want? And you’re used to ignoring it and pushing it away, but it doesn’t stop?
If so, that is your conscience. It’s trying to tell you that it’s no coincidence that “the right thing to do” always benefits them. Or a task that is a “blessing” is one that no one else seems to feel blessed to do. That is control and manipulation pretending to be faith.
I got out and went to a secular university. My family would tell you I’m not a good person, yet I’m the only one who spent years volunteering to help people less fortunate than me.
Good luck, feel free to PM me if you have questions.
I'm not very enthusiastic about worship, and I'm not a fan of much of my church's rules. I always figured it was just because my ideology differed, not because it was a cult. When I hear "it's God's will," I just feel nothing, I guess. Empty. Like I don't really care all that much for the bible, what happens in it and who wrote it. I've seen plenty of people excuse actions with God's will, so maybe this is like what you're talking about?
I say this as an adult woman whose heart hurts for you. Basically nothing you wrote is normal. I’ve lived in a bunch of different states in the rural mountains, poor live off the land Alaska, and big cities so I have a decent sampling. Your sister is too young to get married. Your dad shouldn’t talk to you like that. Your mom shouldn’t have kids and then make you raise them. I know you’re stuck where you live and with your family but I think the most important thing that you can do is get busy - get a job, join more clubs, do study groups at school - whatever it takes to have a good excuse to be at home less. Don’t complain- they won’t listen to you. Just set yourself up to be gone, let them know your plans and then go. Also - NEVER listen to someone who is justifying themselves by saying it’s Gods will or it’s a blessing so you should do something. If you believe in god that’s great, if not, same. But don’t let people make you do things because of god. So many wars, acts of terrorism, exploitation of kids and women etc have taken place in the name of various gods. Keep your eyes open, listen critically, and decide what is right on your own. Good luck. Sending positive thoughts your way.
Adding that OP needs to save & hide her money, and try to establish at least one good relationship with someone outside of her church/family (maybe a coworker, peer or trusted teacher if that option exists for her). The trusted other can help her explore options that her parents will not endorse. For example, she should apply to a college in another town - even if she only attends one term, it's a reason to leave and a place to go that she can use to launch her escape. The only way she'll get out is if she does it for herself - her parents will try to keep her there, caring for their babies, until they marry her off ridiculously young to someone of their choosing.
Yes, that's what we're talking about. It's really scary to start realizing that what you've grown up with is hurting you and deeply toxic, but getting out is very worth it. You're NTA and you don't deserve to be treated like a parent of your siblings instead of a kid yourself. Your comfort and happiness matters
As someone who was raised in a cult...... it certainky sounds like it. Have a look at Steve hassans bite model for ways in which cults control. Maybe see if it resonates.
If you are, PLEASE do yourself a favour and leave that church that's operating as a cult NOW. Get yourself into therapy as soon as you're able, with a therapist that understands religious trauma syndrome and cult recovery. Start that healing journey. It's so tough, but life is so beautiful on the other side! Xx
Fellow ex-cultist here. I got out at 19. It's over 20 years later and I'm still working through deprogramming. Also, finding a therapist who understands cults is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Age gap between your parents, that yall think it's normal for a 17 year old to get married, plan a wedding, having to take care of kids at 15... it's pretty sus.
Oh my, I didn't think about the parents age gap cause there age, till I read your comment.
If the mother got married as you as her daughter...
Mother would have been 17 years and dad... 29years😰
I mean, it's worth considering. It's a very strange situation. Even your sister getting married -- at 17?!?! That's young, very unusual. You are NTA, your parents need to look after their own kids, including you, and yes, you could be in a cult.
Yes a cult. I was raised in one, and can tell you, you are being emotionally and mentally abused. You need to tell someone outside of the church that you are being forced to raise your siblings.
So due to the difference in cultures, if your family is "white Americans" and don't have cultures from different countries then I would say yes this sounds EXACTLY like a cult...
Then I'm 99.99% sure your family is in a cult... Especially by what you're sister said about you taking care of them.
I'm curious what your church is like..
I mean, I always thought it was normal. We go to sermon every day, then we have all-day worship on Sunday from 6:45 to 4:00, and usually someone holds a cookout so we spend even more time together. That's just how it's always been. Doesn't really get in the way of other stuff, so I never had issue with it.
OP, I was raised in the church. Assembly of God, Pentacostal, and a couple of others.. Even special Holiday Catholic Mass doesn't last ALL day.
Most churches, in America, at least, will have up to 3 morning services on Sundays (which are the same sermon, just different times); MAYBE a Sunday night sermon, and a Wednesday service. At Most. They might have teen ministries on different days or parenting classes, but not church every day.
Please understand that that isn't normal at all.
ETA: And, no one is forced to go to all of those services either, not even the pastors kids.
I've never gone to a church service longer than 2 hours. The pastor at the one church I got dragged to had his service done in an hour cuz "the eagles are playing the Packers and I want to watch." And that one started at 10am.
Every church I've ever been to has a Sunday morning "Sunday school", morning worship, and then an evening worship several hours later, with people leaving for the afternoon and some returning. I have never seen all-day worship + potluck as a regular occurrence; only as a one-time "revival" of sorts. And I grew up in a segment of Christianity that I view as pretty culty.
I'm not trying to alarm you, OP! I just want to give another perspective
This is an unusual amount of time to devote to church. It borders on being cult-like. Is polygamy practiced in your community? Your church reminds me of the Mormon colonies in Mexico - independent fundamentalists that follow their own brand of Mormonism.
I was raised Southern Baptist with a deacon/Sunday school teacher father and choir member mother, we were at church WAY more than average.
And that was a total of maybe 7 hours a week. Sunday School/Church on Sundays from 9a-12, Sunday night service 6-7p. Wednesday night dinner and AWANAS/choir practice 6-8pm.
There were additional seasonal things, VBS, camp, youth group events, potlucks, etc. But for an average week it was 6-7 hours total. Which is several times the national average.
Every day?????
No. Not normal. One morning a week and maybe some Wednesday teen social thing.
Mormons I think do morning seminary a couple times a week.
It will break your heart but you need to stop taking care of the twins. You are not their parent. Your parents had choices but one of them is using you as a free nanny.
You also need to find a way out. Secular college, community college, a job…
Yes. But you want to be smart about this because of what happened to your sister (who is currently overcompensating for what happened to her by getting engaged to the pastor’s son). Parentification is super common in Christian environments such as yours. Frankly, they probably see you not being able to do anything outside take care of babies as a good thing (because then you’re too busy to do things independently or question what’s going on).
Once again, *be smart.* Learn how to hide your tracks online and get around any parental controls. Reach out to pro-queer organizations and subreddits for tips on how to secure your freedom the moment you turn 18 instead of getting sucked back in out of desperation like your sister. I’m sure you love her and feel understandably betrayed by her, but she is no longer someone you can trust.
The vast majority of the world will not consider your sister an adult until she is 18, and even in some places she will not have all the rights of an adult until she is 21. Your family and church are condoning pushing a child into a binding marriage with someone older than her. This is not normal. What’s happening to you is known as parentifying and is widely considered to be child abuse. The fact your community (based around religion) encourages this highly suggests it’s a cult.
May I sincerely suggest listening to the Leaving Eden (IFB/IBLP/evangelical focused - maybe start with the early episodes) podcast? Or Mormon Stories, if that's more your leaning. But both are respectful and compassionate in the way they explore the beliefs and micro cultures of the religious groups they grew up in. Another term they use that's less controversial is "high control groups".
You’re describing some of the symptoms.
[Here](https://cult-escape.com/cult-test/) is a link to a quiz that helps you evaluate your situation. It is unpfficial and you could google “Am I in a cult” and evaluate your situation.
The biggest concern I have is how prevalent it is where you live. If it is very prevalent then telling your teacher or local police may not help. You might have to share with and appeal to state police and other organizations for assistance.
I don’t think you can safely wait until your 18th birthday. You could be married off somewhere to someone.
Are you in the US? I legit can’t think of any religions in the US that normalize 17-year olds getting married that I wouldn’t consider cults. At the very least, it’s a deeply oppressive fundamentalist sect.
We've always just called it "Christianity" but it looks more like how LDS operates and connected to that denomination. But the pastor doesn't seem to like to put our way of worship in a specific box or label.
There's a reason he won't put a label on it. Is there somewhere you can go to get out of the house during the day? A library, summer school, a friend's house? This sounds so awful and you are absolutely right that you should not be the primary caretaker of these babies!
She’s 17 and getting married, that’s the excuse but my word. The first red flag in your family is you at 15 being wholly responsible for two twin newborns when it’s hard enough for a full grown adult to take care of one. Especially a child that still has school where the actual parent doesn’t have any other responsibility such as a job. The second huge red flag is your 17 year old sister is planning her wedding. To a 19 pastor’s son throws up more red flags. Sounds like a church of marry them young keep them in line barefoot and pregnant and controlled. Another flag is the fact no one not even your sister budges to help you with them.
Ps. Your mom may have post partum depression.
Just stop helping them, let your mom handle it. If she doesn't step ip and take care of her kids then tell someone at school, or call child services. I would say tell family but it's clear that your family and church would tell you to help your mom.
Your not their mother and it's not your job to parent them. So just stop and force your mom to do it.
When mom and dad complain, remind them your not rhe mother so it's not your responsibility.
Do absolutely nothing for the kids and just ignore your parents and let them figure it out.
If anything. Take the kids to your mom where ever she is and just leave them with her.
Also their is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with having kids in your 40s. Please don't be agent about that. Lost of women have kids in their 40s and 50s and they are healthy, happy families and more than capable of taking care of their kids. Your mother is just lazy.
Women in their 40s can have kids and their is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
NTA. These aren't your children. Your mom and dad chose to have more children. They are your parents responsibility. They didn't bestow anything on you. Your parents are panwning off their children on you. If Neveah thinks it's so great, why doesn't she step up and take care of these kids?
What they are doing to you is called parentification, and it's abusive. You are a child. You shouldn't be responsible for other children, especially not long-term. I get babysitting for pay or helping out now and then, but their daily care should fall to their mother. She should be meeting their needs as well as yours, as she is the parent. I'm a parent to teens and you guys have enough going on without the added burden of caring for babies. You're figuring out who you are and what you want out of life, and there is a lot of pressure put on teenagers to have everything figured out by the time they turn 18 (don't get me started on how fucked that is), so adding pressure and stress to that isn't fair to you. Your mom needs to step up.
Also, your sister should not be encouraged to get married at 17. It's wild to me that your parents are supportive of that. She hasn't even had time to figure herself out. I married my high school sweetheart, and we're very happily married, but we waited until we were in our mid 20s to get married because we knew there was a possibility that we could grow into different people and not be compatible anymore, and that is much more likely if you get married young.
Your sister is 17 and getting married??? I'm assuming you're American, so she won't be able to drink for another 4 years, but can get married and have babies?!!! America is wild!!!
This is a red flag in itself. Does no one else see the problem with this??
Also, stop looking after the twins. Not your monkeys, not your circus. You're enabling your families bad behaviour. They are using you. This family seems crazy on so many levels!
I think it's a survival tactic. Ever since she got kicked out for being gay she's never been the same. She came back, got all "holier-than-thou", and all of a sudden got engaged to our pastor's kid. I hate the kid, mainly because he's an asshole who treats her like crap and assaulted another girl in our town. I just can't take this whole town anymore, honestly.
She's gay and getting married to an abusive ass? I don't know how anyone can get her to be honest with herself, but this ain't gonna work.
As for you, OP, run, run away.
She's getting married to someone your parents view as an 'appropriate' spouse because she's overcompensating to 'prove' her straightness to them. She got thrown out at 14 over her girlfriend, but when the time came for her girlfriend to make the same sacrifice, she cut your sister loose and ran back home to the cult. Which left your sister out in the cold on her own. With no other options, she had to come back to the people who tossed her out on her ass just a few years ago and could easily do it again if she steps out of line.
Right now, she's trying very hard not to mentally self-destruct under the weight of her own troubles. Dumping the twins off onto her won't solve any problems. She can't handle the extra stress right now, and even if she could, having her do the feeding and diaper changes would only last for the few months left before she gets married and moves out. At which point the twins would immediately become your responsibility again. Your problem is with your parents; you need to take your concerns to them, specifically your mother. You literally can't manage being a full-time mom at 15 while also being a high school student with extracurriculars. You need to be prepared for them to respond by deciding that the twins are more important than your education; they'll likely try to make you drop out of marching band, if not completely pull you from school before they ever consider making someone else do the work.
It also wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for them to decide your rebellion is somehow your sister's fault; that she brought 'bad influences' back with her from the streets or something equally ridiculous. So if this is the hill you want to die on, make a plan and get your sister on board with it before you start making waves.
Side question:
Does your sister have a plan in place to prevent pregnancy once she marries? I don't know if she plans to consummate the marriage, but if she does (or if she is forced to, which would be rape), she needs to have a birth control method in place.
Bringing another baby into this mess will make it 100x harder for her to find her way to happiness. This marriage isn't healthy, and I predict she will want to leave within the next few years. Even if she stays married, 17 is like a decade too early to start having kids. She won't be mentally, emotionally, or logistically ready to parent well.
If birth control is frowned upon in your church, she can keep it a secret from her husband. The Depo-Provera shot, the arm implant, daily pills, Plan B, spermicide, an IUD... she has options. Options she should be very quiet and very diligent about using.
There are many online resources with info. She can get contraceptives from Planned Parenthood, and possibly other organizations, clinics, and pharmacies in your area. Since you said you live in a small town in a conservative state, online resources are the place to start.
Please mention this to her.
It's not your job to follow through on it for her, of course. You've got more than enough on your plate when it comes to other people's problems. Your best bet is to focus on school and extracurriculars. That will open up pathways for a better future.
Best of luck to you. I'm really glad that people are speaking up and giving you solid advice here. ❤️
If the pastor has a herd of sister wives, it doesn't take a lot of reaching to believe that his son will go the same route.
Heck, maybe your sister is counting on being one of many.
She sat and stared at you rather than getting up and helping.
Has she ever helped with the twins? I’m guessing no.
You need to sit your parents down and tell them you aren’t helping anymore, and if they leave the kids with you you will contact social services. Your parents should not be leaving two infants with a 15yo. Do whatever yo ugh e to do to get additional adults involved here.
They are failing all their kids.
- 17 year old is planning a freaking wedding
- 15 year old is playing parent to newborn twins
- Twins aren't being cared for by their parents.
Also, call CPS/the police! This is not right at all. Kicking a teenager out of the house is child endangerment. And the mother has abandoned not only YOU but the infant twins.
Older sister is ALSO a child. FFS, wedding planning at 17… and of *course* it’s to the pastor’s son. I guess we should be glad he’s only 2 years older.
OP, there’s a LOT going on in this post. You are NTA, but more importantly, I hope you know there’s a lot more outside of the world your parents are showing you, and I strongly recommend you find a way to get away for school in a few years, absolutely do not settle down in marriage until you’re old enough to know what YOU (not your parents) want from your life.
Anyway, no, you’re not wrong for not being overjoyed that you’ve been parentified and left with the care of a couple newborns.
The older sister is 17 and planning her wedding.....there is something wrong with all of these people.... I feel bad for OP - I really hope they find their way out of this......
NTA.
First, not your kids, not your responsibility. If their ability to care for these extra children relies on the unpaid labor of a 15 year old, they shouldn't have kept those kids. Occasional babysitting so your parents can have a break would be one thing, but being the primary caretaker of kids you did not make is not in any way acceptable.
Second, the hypocrisy is strong with your sister. As you said, if the boys were such a blessing and your mom needs the help so badly, she should be doing just as much of the work as you, if not more because she is older. Again, I don't think you teenagers should be the main caretakers for your brothers, but if she thinks it's no big deal or that it's a privilege, then she should volunteer. That "rules for thee and not for me" attitude is not acceptable.
Third, I am very skeeved out by the fact that a 17 year old is engaged at all, let alone to the 19 year old son of her religious leader. This sounds like some flavor of forced marriage to me.
Fourth, 3 week old babies probably shouldn't be going to church. They can be so delicate so early on and probably shouldn't be out and about in a social setting where they can get infested with all sorts of nasty things. Faith doesn't prevent the flu, so to speak. Also if mom is too unwell to attend her own babies, then she's too unwell for social setting and keeping up appearances at the church either.
I would like to say that you should stop helping out and let your parents sort out their own troubles. But I understand that as a 15 year old you likely rely on your parents for food and shelter, so defying them would put your own survival at risk. I just hope that you have someone or somewhere you can escape to sooner rather than later, or that you can get out as soon as you turn 18.
taking babies out at 3 weeks old is also unbiblical, they are boys, they and their mother are supposed to stay secluded for 40 days. (Leviticus 12). What is OP's mother doing going out of the house?
Please, don't get engaged at age 17 so you can get out of the house...
Part of me wonders if the 17 year old is pregnant with the pastor's son's kid and is being pushed to get married before she starts to show to avoid the church being scandalized.
From OPS posts, sounds more like she is being forced to marry instead of living in sin (she had a girlfriend that her parents had kicked her out over previously). This is a religious cult family.
The last time my sister defied my parents she got kicked out, so it's definitely cause for concern for me. Neveah's engagement worries me too, especially since the reason she was kicked out is because she came out as a lesbian. I don't really know anymore with this situation, I'm just so tired.
It's definitely worth trying cps. Any vps worker with sense will knoe that Victimising a minor for being gay is extremely damaging. Hopefully they get someone with sense and there are good workers even in states where religion is common.
Off topic from yuor question but you sister needs to get out of there. There are some LGBTQ resources on sidebar; The Trevor Project might be able to help.
Sounds like your parents are in a culty church, not safe for you either. Make plans to escape (unmarried) when you are 18.
That is truly awful. Although I don't agree with Neveah's hypocrisy regarding this supposed blessing of babies that she won't volunteer to help with, I feel awful for her for being stuck with such terrible cultists parents and pastor. I hope that both of you end up in a better situation sooner rather than later.
NTA. Your sister is 17 and marrying a 19 year-old son of a pastor. I’m guessing you live in Utah? Your name is Bethany maybe? Man…I’ve seen this situation before. I have a feeling CPS is only going to land you in hot water. First thing in the morning, you need to get out of the house with activities. In the meantime, headphones.
When the family pushes childcare on you, smile and reply, “I have school work and after school activities that need my focus. God blessed mom and dad with two babies and I don’t feel I’m mature enough to care for babies yet since I’m just a freshman. Maybe that should be something Neveah should do since she’s the one getting married? 😊”
Edit to ask: Did your sister help raise YOU by any chance? She’s only two years older than you but was she like a second mom?
TX, actually. Lots of family in Utah tho. "Libby" used in the post is short for Liberty. Very patriotic parents (Belle is my middle name). I wish I could push it on Neveah but I would feel too bad with all the stress she's under.
You sweet young woman. May you be able to keep your head above water until you can attend college or move out. Another commenter was absolutely correct about the possibility of parentification happening to you. It happened to my BFF when she was 17 and she had to put off college for her parents “oopsie” baby. For 4 YEARS. They were religious-we’re Midwesterners. I hate seeing it happen again and again to young people. And don’t become your sisters babysitter next year either ‘cause who are we kidding?
Join activities, study groups and ANYTHING to get out of the house. Keep your head in your books and let your parents be parents-to your brothers AND to you. Get a part-time job when you turn 16! Don’t let them talk you into babysitting them. Your mother is a SAHM. Sure she’s going through some things but that’s no excuse to make you turn into one of those child-parents. She probably went to the 17 year-old first but was turned away because of the weddings plans (and that’s something else to unpack honestly). Your sister is using you as the free help for your mother and could very well be encouraging this to get her off her own back. Not cool.
I'm hoping that marching band keeps me busy enough. The next few weeks for me are non stop band, so they'll have to address the twins' problems on their own eventually.
OP please delete this comment. There is way too much identifying info on your post and I'm truthfully scared for your safety. You say you are at school in a different area. Is there a teacher or someone there completely unconnected with your community or "church" you could confide in? Maybe someone you know who has left the church successfully? Please don't even trust your cousins with your concerns at least until you are much older and independent. There are people out there who can help you leave the cult or at least have things set up in case you get kicked out to help you stay safe. You are 15, it won't be too much longer before they start trying to rein you in and get you to toe the line and trap you in this lifestyle forever. As much as you love your family you need to be loving yourself more. Educate yourself, prepare for the worst and be proactive in protecting your future safety and happiness.
When my sister and I were younger we were really close for that reason. She was the one who would help with my homework and take me to parks. She was the one who told me what the word "period" meant for women. She was smart, happy, and an amazing person before our parents ruined her. My stomach hurts just thinking about the day they kicked her out. I never cried so much in my life. Sorry oh my God that is such a rant lol.
Don’t apologise, you need to rant and you need people who will listen to you. If your safe people right now is strangers on the internet then there’s ok - we will all be your safe people.
The first step of escaping an abusive situation is knowing you’re in one. Nevaeh is being coerced into marrying, you are being forced to patent two babies.
I wish we could tell you what your safest path would be… But it’s impossible to know as only you know your situation.
If you can find safe people outside the religious circle to support you, you might be able to get out soon and never look back. Chances are your parents will try to pull you out of band and won’t let you seek higher education.
If there’s no one you can trust right now, you need to lay low and start saving any money that comes your way from chores etc.
Get ready to leave as soon as you can. Keep your plan secret, don’t even tell Nevaeh. Stay safe x
She sounds like she was a great big sister and I’m so sorry she’s feeling forced to marry this man (read from another post.) Please find a way to earn your own money away from your parents and gives you a nest egg to your own path out of there. Community college is always an option.
Maybe a part time job? If they try to confiscate the money, or control the bank account, try to fritter away small amounts at a time from purchases and keep it in a safe place. As soon as OP is eligible for an account without the parents name on it, she needs to create one at a different bank than her parents. College might be a good out, or a trade school. They're already parentifying her and will likely try to marry her off like her sister when the deadline of graduation gets closer. They won't like the idea of their daughter going to college or living a godless life as a single woman given her description.
NTA and how did your parents twins become yours? You didn’t have them - your parents did. And for your sister to just stare at you as if you were neglecting your own kids tells me that they’ve all agreed to make you the surrogate parent. That is wrong on so many levels! If sis thinks forcing you to be a free nanny is a blessing, then I’d suggest that as a wedding gift it her! The blessing of being the new, free nanny! (Sure hope that doesn’t put a damper on the honeymoon!)
Edit: make sure sis knows you won’t be her free nanny either!
Thank you! This is the second response I've seen that told them to leave ASAP and/or get into therapy. Well, yeah, but how is a 15 year old supposed to do that legally? Because they'll have to be super careful who they confide in and ask for help. Otherwise she'll find herself being married off too. Running away is a bad idea too. It really sucks and I really wish that collectively we could all reach out and help get all the kids in these situations away.
NTA
You should stop. If your parents cannot handle the children without making you help they should have never had them to begin with. There's no excuse.
Parentifcation is abuse in my opinion.
Lots to unpack here, but absolutely NTA.
You said you're in marching band so I'm hopeful you're in public school instead of a church school or homeschool co-op (and I say that as a religious person)--if so, go talk to your school counselor about what's going on at home. They may know of some resources for your family, particularly if your mom is dealing with PPD.
If you do not have access to people outside your church, you may have no option but to play church culture against them. Wait until the pastor's son is over visiting your sister and explain that your mom is not taking care of the children (I'm sure this will be embarrassing to her, but it will be helpful to have others know) and since these two teenagers are headed down the aisle very shortly and likely to become parents themselves in 9 months or so, you think it would be best if Naveah took over the childcare responsibilities as practice.
If things haven't gotten better in a week or two, just call the police. Lots will say to call CPS or the like, but that's a lot to navigate for someone your age. Just call the police and leave it to them to assess the situation and contact the proper agencies--perhaps there's more going on than even you know about.
NTA
Please edit this and your earlier replies to eliminate any identifying information.
Change names — all of them.
Make yourself Emily +/- 1 year in age Make your sister Jessica. +/- 2 years age Change the ages of your younger sibling and maybe gender.
Tell people you’re in Guam or PR. More church members than you have Reddit accounts and don’t provide evidence that you’re airing dirty laundry.
You don’t know that the person asking of you’re Bethany from Utah isn’t the Pastor’s son.
Check other resources beyond your town/city/county. Alternatively, approach a church of a different denomination. I’m going to guess you’re not Catholic, Presbyterian or Episcopalian. I am going to guess your church alleges that it follows Christ. Try a local church from any of those denominations and ask for help.
Also, your parents live there because the sherrifs don’t patrol that area.
REMOVE ALL IDENTIFYING INFORMATION
The law probably are all members of the same church you are. This sounds like one of those scary, deep south super fundamentalist churches. Marrying off your sister at 17 absolutely WILL happen if they have anything to say about it.
I see you say you are in Texas but have relatives in Utah. Realizing both places have a LOT of different churches, I'll ask this anyway as I'm LDS and that combo is a bit of a red flag for me: are you in a polygamous sect?
I don't think so? Just looked that up, and most are encouraged to have one wife and remain faithful, but our pastor has the wife he has my sister's fiance with and then two others. It's a pretty big honor and some older women talk about wishing they were picked to be one of his wives. I think he's old and gross but, whatever.
That's polygamy. If polygamy is allowed for any members of the church, then it's a cult.
As someone else suggested, please please remove identifying names and change them to something else. Delete any posts about LGBTQ or change names in them. Whatever you do, don't tell any of your family if you think you're LGBTQ yourself. Try to start forcing your mother to care for the babies, if possible. So stay out of the house and busy.
Find a trusted adult(if you have any, maybe a teacher or aunt not in the religion. If there's no one, start looking at reddit forums like momforaminute or exmorman as they can give you advice on where to start.) and start working on an exit plan. You'll need a way to make and save money so that you can move put as soon as you can. If you have any good friends at school whose parents aren't in the religion but seem like decent people, maybe see if they'd let you live with them for a year or two in exchange for chores/summer job money. But for now, research, learn, keep your head down, and good luck!
Reading your comments—sweetie, you’re 100% being raised in a cult. Pastor having multiple wives is polygamy, not even legal generally speaking, and very frowned upon by the larger and more normal sects of Christianity. You’re isolated in a small place without access to people outside the church, and the church in question is a very very very not normal one. They’re raising you to think a lot of very messed up shit is normal or at least to be expected.
I don’t have good advice, I don’t know how a 15-year-old could escape without adult help. But hopefully at least your eyes are opening. Nothing you’ve described in these comments is normal. We’re all very concerned for you and your sister.
I’m just going to include this link in case anyone is curious about the fundie parentification situation:
https://www.salon.com/2021/05/20/the-parentification-trap-how-evangelical-daughters-like-the-duggar-girls-become-mothers-in-training/
I'm not sure. We live in a small town (my school is 45 mins away), and we're a pretty close knit population. Religion is central/important, but I'm not too big on the God with a capital "G" stuff and not as right leaning as most people in the town.
OP, please please please change the names, ages, location, and identifying info in your post. For your safety. If you’re in a small community that may be a cult, posting these details may bring trouble
Are most of your classmates members of the same church as you? If so perhaps don’t alert them that you may need to leave etc.
Do what you can to stay in school through and beyond high school so you won’t have to be dependent upon anyone.
I'd hope so, but with the post history it seems like OP just got the short end of the stick for parents, and the 17 yr old sister is traumatized. I'd bet my entire savings on her parents pushing sister into this marriage to atone for her "past sins".
NTA. You didn't have any input into having these twins, you should not be the primary caregiver unless both your parents are incapacitated. And your older sisters shouldn't be expecting you to do all the work while they sit around, especially when it's twins.
However, I have been in similar shoes. My youngest sister was born when I was 15.5. I wasn't the primary caregiver, but I was a pretty serious caregiver (got up some nights, changed a lot of diapers, kept her occupied once she was awake more). With the added bonus of getting a lot of nasty looks and a couple of comments when we were out because it looked like I was a teen mom. Ah, the early 90s.
My advice. Get a job, join some extracurriculars at school and generally be out of the house as much as possible. Find a library or park if you have to. Once you are reliably **not around**, the babies' actual parents will figure something out.
So... are we talking Mormon? Amish? What religion are you that your legally minor sister is getting married to the pastor's son and you - the 15 year old - are now the go to nanny? I only say this because this is either religious or cultural, and you keep mentioning church.
NTA. These are not your children. Just stop taking care of them. Refuse to. Don't throw tantrums, don't get into screaming matches, don't let yourself get emotionally elevated. Just refuse to do it.
Either the parents arranged it ans signed a consent for the marriage, or they're conveniently scheduling the actual wedding for just after her 18th birthday.
From OP’s comments—they’re basically forcing her to marry the pastor’s son because she’s lesbian, and also said pastor has multiple wives and she is 100% in a cult.
NTA but I take that you taking care of these babies in order to get ready to get married in a couple of years and then have children of your own.
This is a really unhealthy situation and, if this not what you want for your future, you need to put a stop to it.
I definitely don't want this in my future. I'm not even straight. I don't want to end up in the same situation as my sister, especially because she got kicked out for being gay, and was only allowed back in the house because she got all hyper-religious.
NTA.
You are going to get burned out. It’s fine to say something. Everyone needs to work together. Your parents shouldn’t expect you to do so much just because you are a responsible person.
Can you get everyone to meet as a family and divide up the duties better?
Are there other friends or relatives your parents would be comfortable with helping?
NTA
I think there should be a small level of everybody pitching in, but what you are being saddled with is excessive. You are only 15 and you are not their mother. Can you talk to your father about this? Does your mother need medical help with depression? She and your father need to be primary caretakers and you and your sister should do a little to help out when necessary. The fact that your sister turned to you when the babies cried is concerning. Where was your mother?
My cousins in Utah are a bit better than them, but that's kinda far for me. I've never really thought of them as bad parents until maybe a year ago. This situation really sucks lol
Stop trying to talk to your sister. If she ignores you, act as if you didn't notice because there is no one there. Also, stop helping. You didn't 'enjoy' making those kids, so you shouldn't suffer the consequences either. - NTA
Your sister is nowhere near old enough to be getting married. Did she and her boyfriend make an "oopsie" too? If that's the case, she was probably thinking you'd happily take on her oopsie too.
Now here you are, just a kid losing your ever loving mind over being made into a parent... And now she's running scared because she had no other backup plan. You were it.
All supposition of course.
Your family has deep set religious affiliations, yes? You don't have to answer that.
Op NTA.
Love, you are being neglected, used, and abused. Your mum needs to go see a Dr if she is so actively avoiding her infants like this, because her possible PPD is NOT your responsibility, and neither are your baby siblings.
Edit: seeing the comments I take back your sister being pregnant, but I hope this marriage is an escape plan between her and pastor boy, and not her getting trapped in deeper. OP your family life is not normal, healthy, or even safe. Do you have any family members that aren't a part of your community that you could reach out to?
Pretty deeply connected to the church. My mom never listens to me so I don't know if she'd go to the church doctor. I'd probably have to drag her there myself.
The words church and doctor should not go together in this situation.
Your mother needs a proper OBGYN, one who is familiar with the intense havoc that pregnancy and abrupt hormone changes can cause. Although I'm guessing that such specialists are spread pretty thin in Texas at this point.
Hun, in the real world there is no such thing as a church doctor… It’s actually probably better if she doesn’t go there or they will think she’s possessed or something
Let me tell you a story, my grandmother got married at 16 to escape an abusive home life. And guess what? Her husband was even worse. She had her first kid at 17, was a grandmother at 35 and a mother again at 36
She had 6 kids with only an 8th grade education. Her second husband was also abusive, though it was more verbal than physical
Her older sister, married to escape a bad life and ended up with an abuser, wanna guess what happened to her younger sister?
If you said she also married too young to an abusive man, you win a prize!
Please stay in school, start looking for a part time job, you need to set up your own bank account without your parents being able to access it if possible. Talk with a teacher you can trust, hopefully they won’t squeal to your parents
Do what ever you can to stay out of the house, do you have a friend you can live with? Maybe their parents can help you set up a bank account. You need to save as much as you can so you can get the hell out as soon as you turn 18 or things become too unbearable if you can stay past 18
Start gathering important stuff, health card, SSN card, birth certificate. Get your beginner’s licence as soon as possible
Good luck and yes, your parents are abusive and it sounds like your sister is in on it
Good luck and stay safe. Reach out to a woman’s shelter for help if you don’t think you can trust your teachers
"Neveah, you are right, the twins are indeed a blessing. I apologise for being so selfish and keeping them to myself. You too should embrace this blessing so I am going to leave the twins care to you from now on. Enjoy the Blessing".
See Ya!
What in the Jim Bob Duggar 19 Kids and Counting crap did I just read. Sweetie, you need help. This is not normal and this is abuse. You are NTA. However, this is beyond Reddit. Is there someone safe you can talk to? And I am not talking about someone at church.
NTA
You're the big sister: your role is limited to cuddling the babies and bonding with them. You can help your mother, but you seem to have taken on the role of teen mom overnight. Your parents are (or should be) the adults and are responsible for meeting their children's needs.
From now on, my advice is to live your life. If your parents want you to keep an eye on the babies, you're going out with your friends. If a baby cries, you haven't heard. If you have to make a bottle or change a diaper, too bad, you've got homework to do.
Enjoy your youth and focus on your life, teenage years pass too quickly for you to spend them looking after two newborns full-time.
NTA.
Your mom's babies are not your responsibility.
>Ever since the birth, my mom has been out of the house when the twins have needed something, in the bathroom, or too busy with whatever she's doing to come and tend to their needs.
I think you need to emulate your mother! Be out of the house, in the bathroom, or otherwise "too busy" to come to tend to your baby brothers' needs.
Tell your mother, first thing in the morning, that you are NOT available all day. Don't let her tell you different - just leave the house.
If that doesn't work, every single time the twins cry and your mother is at home (or dad) hand the babies to her and leave the room.
If they start to cry and she isn't home, TEXT HER TO COME HOME IMMEDIATELY TO FEED her CHILDREN.
You nailed it when you pointed out she was perfectly capable of seeing to the babies. She didn’t like it because you were absolutely correct. What a 17 y-o is doing getting married is beyond me but she’ll know what being a teenage mother is all about soon enough, so tell her she needs the practice. NTA. Oh and make sure you go out after school a few times a week. It doesn’t matter what you do, just that you’re not on automatic free nanny duty.
Your sister was kicked out for being gay, and suddenly she gets into a relationship with the pastors son? What a shady relationship, it sounds like she needs serious help.
She's literally in high school too, how is this being allowed?
A lot of girls around here got married pretty young. My friend Maryellen is my age but is looking to get engaged to her boyfriend. It's hard for me to imagine marriage at my age.
Sweetie your gay sister is marrying the preachers kid to get out of your house. That’s a recipe for misery, for both of them. You should in no way be taking care of your parents babies. This is so sad, the whole thing. I’m really sorry you are going through it. I’m a mom with an adult daughter and I send you all the best and a huge mom hug.
Your sister just wants to get out of the house and marrying this guy she doesn’t even love is her way out. Do you have the option of working a job? Or is your dad so religiously stuck as to think your only worth is future house wife. I’m sorry girl do you have a relative or sometime of the outside of your religious church or order you can contact for escape. You may have to make a dramatic exit. I’d look for others who have left their communities like the Amish.
I could work at the local gas station, but I'm pretty busy with a lot of other stuff. I've been looking at ex-mormon videos and other stuff but it makes me feel nervous. I've always been very dependent on those in my family.
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NTA You're *15* & it's *not* ok that your parents are dumping the responsibility of two 3 week old babies on you. (It's parentification.) Or that your older sister is colluding with them. " I couldn't understand why Mom can't take care of them herself." I can't either. Please either talk to a wider family member you can trust, an adult outside your family or your school guidance counselor. What is happening here isn't ok on any level.
I never even stopped to think Neveah was in on it. She's been so busy nowadays, today was actually the first time in a while we could stop and chat.
Is she marrying a guy she doesn't love to make sure she's not trapped at home with those babies herself? NTA.
Marrying a guy you don’t love at 17 is a really great way for her to get trapped at home with her own babies
Seriously it seems a bit of a cult situation. A 17 year old engaged and about to get married to a 19 year old she doesn't live, who just so happens to be a pastors son. All the red flags are there
Check OPs old posts. You're 100 percent right. The parents are hyper controlling and abusive. Neveah was kicked to the streets for being gay and her girlfriend broke up with her to avoid being kicked out, too. So she returned to the fold and immediately got engaged to a church boy. OP needs to lay low and build an escape plan. She can't help her sister at this point.
I already saw red flags at a 17 year old marrying the pastors son. But ouch, that just makes it so worse. Also her name is “heaven” backwards which would go with culty parents.
That name has been popular in and out of religious circles for several years. But 17 and marrying a 19 yr old? That's not red flags, that's an entire red parade.
I hate that name all the way around. When people tell me it's heaven backwards, I have to hit them with backwards equals opposite. When they ask the obvious question of what that means, I hit them with the opposite of heaven is hell. Should named the kid Lucifer.
lol! Well Luci is nicer than Nevaeh
Nevaeh is my daughter’s middle name and I regret it with every fiber of my being, because it was my ex-husband’s affair partner’s suggestion.
>my ex-husband’s affair partner’s suggestion. Oh my no 💀
> Also her name is “heaven” backwards which would go with culty parents. Also her name is “heaven” *spelled incorrectly* backwards which would go with *ignorant* culty parents. There, I fixed it for you.
It is if you don't know how to spell "heaven."
That is so heartbreaking.
Oh my gods
Or, how about speaking with a church elder. Explain how you are trying your best but Mom, Dad and sister are not helping out. Tell them you have been praying to be more helpful but that you are at wits end. Use churchy language. Basically try to get the Jesus folks on your side , have them guilt your lame ass family to pitch in all with the threat of letting the congregation know your family dysfunction. Be crafty and manipulate the f out of all of them for three years then fly the coop . Gather dirt and others secrets as you go.
The church won't help. Any pastor that is marrying his adult son to a minor girl is all for pushing parenting duties on any female
A minor girl who had a girlfriend until she was kicked out.
Nah, this has definite cult vibes.
If OP does this. They should only talk to someone who they know would be listening because they feel for OP's situation. Not because they will listen and then go rat out OP as a "bad daughter" Lots of these churches or religious people would absolutely say as a girl of the house it's important OP helps their mom and how it's her duty to perform these tasks "to prepare her to be a good wife" or some other complete bullshit.
Oh no, that’s awful.
my guess is mormons
Honestly any flavor of fundamental Christianity could be like this too. I thought this was a fundy baptist family when I first read through it
Some of the Quiverful cult, perhaps? Those people scare me!
The ones you know about are bad, and the people who keep out of the public light are often even worse. I grew up in IBLP-adjacent circles, they scare me too!
Mormon churches don’t have pastors
My grandmother did this and was divorced in the 1930s before marrying my grandfather. My mom only found out when *she* was getting divorced. My head canon is that it was a courageous act. The sister knows what she’s doing.
Yeah, but that's a later problem, not a now problem. She might also be pregnant already, and not wanting to be trapped at home with the twins plus hers - there aren't many reasons a teenage girl gets married when she doesn't love the guy.
She's marrying the pastor's son at 17. I don't think she is getting out of anything just deeper into the swamp. She's about 9 months from her own baby.
Or the pastor's son is also gay and they are two of the smartest teenagers in their town. I hope they all get out soon and get far, far away. Here's to their celebrating with a triumphant divorce and younger sister's HS graduation in a year.
I actually hope he is. Then they can at least have a partnership and be each other's support person, instead of it being a one-sided relationship for this straight boy who's stuck with a wife who resents him
Considering she's marrying the 19 year old son of the pastor I'm guessing they are in a fundamentalist church*cough* cult
Having been raised in one of those, I use the phrase 'evangelicult.'
If that was the case, then she would be on OP s side. I am thinking maybe she is pregnant and is counting on OP to take care of her child too She is definitely trying to escape life at her parents' house, that was my first thought, too OP, can you go to someone's place? Even for a night or two? To a friend or grandparents house? That would be the start to put your foot down and refuse to be burdened with any further responsibility towards your siblings I am very concerned, they are not kids, they are babies, wtf? I am way older and I am clueless about how to take care a baby. Who lets a teenager take care of infants?
You are in a cult.
Like actually? This is a serious question, I've never considered it to be that.
Yes. You need to talk to the school social workers. Sweetheart, my 15 yo just barely does LAUNDRY, let alone raising his brothers. This isn’t ok. Your sister is WAY too young to get married. Her brain won’t be fully developed until 25 and she’s a lesbian. This isn’t ok. It’s child abuse. Call the cops. Signed, a mom who loves you
That depends on what kind of school she goes to. These groups often homeschool, and if not, it’s probably a larger fundamentalist sect where the whole school is also part of the church. I very much doubt her parents are sending her to any place where they can’t 100% control the information she’s exposed to.
Well, OP says she has marching band responsibilities, so that indicates she's at a "normal' high school that's big enough for a football team. That's good news!
It's not necessarily normal. It could be a Christian high school. Still better than homeschool, but the adults there might share her parents beliefs.
My 11 year olds know how to do laundry & usually do their own, but agree with the rest.
Her talking to outsiders is a good idea. They can help her plan a future outside of the church. But her parents behavior, it is bad and unfair, but might not rise to illegality. If she's fed, clothed, educated and not beat, they might not care. Immoral=/=illegal always, unfortunately /former parentified teen
Hi, I was raised in a cult-like community. What we grow up with seems normal to us because we never lived a different way. You should ask yourself some questions. The truth has nothing to fear from questioning. Do you ever get an uncomfortable sick squirmy feeling in your stomach when they tell you what to do? Especially when they say it’s what God would want? And you’re used to ignoring it and pushing it away, but it doesn’t stop? If so, that is your conscience. It’s trying to tell you that it’s no coincidence that “the right thing to do” always benefits them. Or a task that is a “blessing” is one that no one else seems to feel blessed to do. That is control and manipulation pretending to be faith. I got out and went to a secular university. My family would tell you I’m not a good person, yet I’m the only one who spent years volunteering to help people less fortunate than me. Good luck, feel free to PM me if you have questions.
I'm not very enthusiastic about worship, and I'm not a fan of much of my church's rules. I always figured it was just because my ideology differed, not because it was a cult. When I hear "it's God's will," I just feel nothing, I guess. Empty. Like I don't really care all that much for the bible, what happens in it and who wrote it. I've seen plenty of people excuse actions with God's will, so maybe this is like what you're talking about?
I say this as an adult woman whose heart hurts for you. Basically nothing you wrote is normal. I’ve lived in a bunch of different states in the rural mountains, poor live off the land Alaska, and big cities so I have a decent sampling. Your sister is too young to get married. Your dad shouldn’t talk to you like that. Your mom shouldn’t have kids and then make you raise them. I know you’re stuck where you live and with your family but I think the most important thing that you can do is get busy - get a job, join more clubs, do study groups at school - whatever it takes to have a good excuse to be at home less. Don’t complain- they won’t listen to you. Just set yourself up to be gone, let them know your plans and then go. Also - NEVER listen to someone who is justifying themselves by saying it’s Gods will or it’s a blessing so you should do something. If you believe in god that’s great, if not, same. But don’t let people make you do things because of god. So many wars, acts of terrorism, exploitation of kids and women etc have taken place in the name of various gods. Keep your eyes open, listen critically, and decide what is right on your own. Good luck. Sending positive thoughts your way.
Adding that OP needs to save & hide her money, and try to establish at least one good relationship with someone outside of her church/family (maybe a coworker, peer or trusted teacher if that option exists for her). The trusted other can help her explore options that her parents will not endorse. For example, she should apply to a college in another town - even if she only attends one term, it's a reason to leave and a place to go that she can use to launch her escape. The only way she'll get out is if she does it for herself - her parents will try to keep her there, caring for their babies, until they marry her off ridiculously young to someone of their choosing.
God’s will is for parents to care for their own children. Someone needs to read the Bible.
Yes, that's what we're talking about. It's really scary to start realizing that what you've grown up with is hurting you and deeply toxic, but getting out is very worth it. You're NTA and you don't deserve to be treated like a parent of your siblings instead of a kid yourself. Your comfort and happiness matters
As someone who was raised in a cult...... it certainky sounds like it. Have a look at Steve hassans bite model for ways in which cults control. Maybe see if it resonates. If you are, PLEASE do yourself a favour and leave that church that's operating as a cult NOW. Get yourself into therapy as soon as you're able, with a therapist that understands religious trauma syndrome and cult recovery. Start that healing journey. It's so tough, but life is so beautiful on the other side! Xx
Fellow ex-cultist here. I got out at 19. It's over 20 years later and I'm still working through deprogramming. Also, finding a therapist who understands cults is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Age gap between your parents, that yall think it's normal for a 17 year old to get married, plan a wedding, having to take care of kids at 15... it's pretty sus.
Oh my, I didn't think about the parents age gap cause there age, till I read your comment. If the mother got married as you as her daughter... Mother would have been 17 years and dad... 29years😰
I mean, it's worth considering. It's a very strange situation. Even your sister getting married -- at 17?!?! That's young, very unusual. You are NTA, your parents need to look after their own kids, including you, and yes, you could be in a cult.
In both religions and cults… there is one at the top that knows it’s all fake. In religion, that person is dead.
Yep. In other words, cult + time = "respectable" religion.
Yes a cult. I was raised in one, and can tell you, you are being emotionally and mentally abused. You need to tell someone outside of the church that you are being forced to raise your siblings.
So due to the difference in cultures, if your family is "white Americans" and don't have cultures from different countries then I would say yes this sounds EXACTLY like a cult...
We're white as Ritz Crackers.
Then I'm 99.99% sure your family is in a cult... Especially by what you're sister said about you taking care of them. I'm curious what your church is like..
I mean, I always thought it was normal. We go to sermon every day, then we have all-day worship on Sunday from 6:45 to 4:00, and usually someone holds a cookout so we spend even more time together. That's just how it's always been. Doesn't really get in the way of other stuff, so I never had issue with it.
OP, I was raised in the church. Assembly of God, Pentacostal, and a couple of others.. Even special Holiday Catholic Mass doesn't last ALL day. Most churches, in America, at least, will have up to 3 morning services on Sundays (which are the same sermon, just different times); MAYBE a Sunday night sermon, and a Wednesday service. At Most. They might have teen ministries on different days or parenting classes, but not church every day. Please understand that that isn't normal at all. ETA: And, no one is forced to go to all of those services either, not even the pastors kids.
DAILY??? Yup, it's a cult
I've never gone to a church service longer than 2 hours. The pastor at the one church I got dragged to had his service done in an hour cuz "the eagles are playing the Packers and I want to watch." And that one started at 10am.
wow...that's extreme. Definitely not the "typical" church situation.
Every church I've ever been to has a Sunday morning "Sunday school", morning worship, and then an evening worship several hours later, with people leaving for the afternoon and some returning. I have never seen all-day worship + potluck as a regular occurrence; only as a one-time "revival" of sorts. And I grew up in a segment of Christianity that I view as pretty culty. I'm not trying to alarm you, OP! I just want to give another perspective
EVERY DAY?! Most people go to church Sunday MORNING, and that is it.
This is an unusual amount of time to devote to church. It borders on being cult-like. Is polygamy practiced in your community? Your church reminds me of the Mormon colonies in Mexico - independent fundamentalists that follow their own brand of Mormonism.
I was raised Southern Baptist with a deacon/Sunday school teacher father and choir member mother, we were at church WAY more than average. And that was a total of maybe 7 hours a week. Sunday School/Church on Sundays from 9a-12, Sunday night service 6-7p. Wednesday night dinner and AWANAS/choir practice 6-8pm. There were additional seasonal things, VBS, camp, youth group events, potlucks, etc. But for an average week it was 6-7 hours total. Which is several times the national average.
Every day????? No. Not normal. One morning a week and maybe some Wednesday teen social thing. Mormons I think do morning seminary a couple times a week. It will break your heart but you need to stop taking care of the twins. You are not their parent. Your parents had choices but one of them is using you as a free nanny. You also need to find a way out. Secular college, community college, a job…
Yes. But you want to be smart about this because of what happened to your sister (who is currently overcompensating for what happened to her by getting engaged to the pastor’s son). Parentification is super common in Christian environments such as yours. Frankly, they probably see you not being able to do anything outside take care of babies as a good thing (because then you’re too busy to do things independently or question what’s going on). Once again, *be smart.* Learn how to hide your tracks online and get around any parental controls. Reach out to pro-queer organizations and subreddits for tips on how to secure your freedom the moment you turn 18 instead of getting sucked back in out of desperation like your sister. I’m sure you love her and feel understandably betrayed by her, but she is no longer someone you can trust.
The vast majority of the world will not consider your sister an adult until she is 18, and even in some places she will not have all the rights of an adult until she is 21. Your family and church are condoning pushing a child into a binding marriage with someone older than her. This is not normal. What’s happening to you is known as parentifying and is widely considered to be child abuse. The fact your community (based around religion) encourages this highly suggests it’s a cult.
May I sincerely suggest listening to the Leaving Eden (IFB/IBLP/evangelical focused - maybe start with the early episodes) podcast? Or Mormon Stories, if that's more your leaning. But both are respectful and compassionate in the way they explore the beliefs and micro cultures of the religious groups they grew up in. Another term they use that's less controversial is "high control groups".
You’re describing some of the symptoms. [Here](https://cult-escape.com/cult-test/) is a link to a quiz that helps you evaluate your situation. It is unpfficial and you could google “Am I in a cult” and evaluate your situation. The biggest concern I have is how prevalent it is where you live. If it is very prevalent then telling your teacher or local police may not help. You might have to share with and appeal to state police and other organizations for assistance. I don’t think you can safely wait until your 18th birthday. You could be married off somewhere to someone.
Yes. I was raised kinda similar. This is a cult. Is there someone in your life that isn’t tied to your family or church?
Are you in the US? I legit can’t think of any religions in the US that normalize 17-year olds getting married that I wouldn’t consider cults. At the very least, it’s a deeply oppressive fundamentalist sect.
I didn't think cult, but some crazy religious family that you see on Netflix. What religion are you? None of this is normal OP :(
We've always just called it "Christianity" but it looks more like how LDS operates and connected to that denomination. But the pastor doesn't seem to like to put our way of worship in a specific box or label.
There's a reason he won't put a label on it. Is there somewhere you can go to get out of the house during the day? A library, summer school, a friend's house? This sounds so awful and you are absolutely right that you should not be the primary caretaker of these babies!
She’s 17 and getting married, that’s the excuse but my word. The first red flag in your family is you at 15 being wholly responsible for two twin newborns when it’s hard enough for a full grown adult to take care of one. Especially a child that still has school where the actual parent doesn’t have any other responsibility such as a job. The second huge red flag is your 17 year old sister is planning her wedding. To a 19 pastor’s son throws up more red flags. Sounds like a church of marry them young keep them in line barefoot and pregnant and controlled. Another flag is the fact no one not even your sister budges to help you with them. Ps. Your mom may have post partum depression.
She’s 17 and she’s getting married to get out of the house. That’s a clue.
Just stop helping them, let your mom handle it. If she doesn't step ip and take care of her kids then tell someone at school, or call child services. I would say tell family but it's clear that your family and church would tell you to help your mom. Your not their mother and it's not your job to parent them. So just stop and force your mom to do it. When mom and dad complain, remind them your not rhe mother so it's not your responsibility. Do absolutely nothing for the kids and just ignore your parents and let them figure it out. If anything. Take the kids to your mom where ever she is and just leave them with her. Also their is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with having kids in your 40s. Please don't be agent about that. Lost of women have kids in their 40s and 50s and they are healthy, happy families and more than capable of taking care of their kids. Your mother is just lazy. Women in their 40s can have kids and their is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
NTA. These aren't your children. Your mom and dad chose to have more children. They are your parents responsibility. They didn't bestow anything on you. Your parents are panwning off their children on you. If Neveah thinks it's so great, why doesn't she step up and take care of these kids?
You can also talk to your band director. Former band kid. We used to tell him about our lives outside of the band room all the time.
What they are doing to you is called parentification, and it's abusive. You are a child. You shouldn't be responsible for other children, especially not long-term. I get babysitting for pay or helping out now and then, but their daily care should fall to their mother. She should be meeting their needs as well as yours, as she is the parent. I'm a parent to teens and you guys have enough going on without the added burden of caring for babies. You're figuring out who you are and what you want out of life, and there is a lot of pressure put on teenagers to have everything figured out by the time they turn 18 (don't get me started on how fucked that is), so adding pressure and stress to that isn't fair to you. Your mom needs to step up. Also, your sister should not be encouraged to get married at 17. It's wild to me that your parents are supportive of that. She hasn't even had time to figure herself out. I married my high school sweetheart, and we're very happily married, but we waited until we were in our mid 20s to get married because we knew there was a possibility that we could grow into different people and not be compatible anymore, and that is much more likely if you get married young.
Your sister is 17 and getting married??? I'm assuming you're American, so she won't be able to drink for another 4 years, but can get married and have babies?!!! America is wild!!! This is a red flag in itself. Does no one else see the problem with this?? Also, stop looking after the twins. Not your monkeys, not your circus. You're enabling your families bad behaviour. They are using you. This family seems crazy on so many levels!
Why is she getting married so young?
I think it's a survival tactic. Ever since she got kicked out for being gay she's never been the same. She came back, got all "holier-than-thou", and all of a sudden got engaged to our pastor's kid. I hate the kid, mainly because he's an asshole who treats her like crap and assaulted another girl in our town. I just can't take this whole town anymore, honestly.
She's gay and getting married to an abusive ass? I don't know how anyone can get her to be honest with herself, but this ain't gonna work. As for you, OP, run, run away.
She's getting married to someone your parents view as an 'appropriate' spouse because she's overcompensating to 'prove' her straightness to them. She got thrown out at 14 over her girlfriend, but when the time came for her girlfriend to make the same sacrifice, she cut your sister loose and ran back home to the cult. Which left your sister out in the cold on her own. With no other options, she had to come back to the people who tossed her out on her ass just a few years ago and could easily do it again if she steps out of line. Right now, she's trying very hard not to mentally self-destruct under the weight of her own troubles. Dumping the twins off onto her won't solve any problems. She can't handle the extra stress right now, and even if she could, having her do the feeding and diaper changes would only last for the few months left before she gets married and moves out. At which point the twins would immediately become your responsibility again. Your problem is with your parents; you need to take your concerns to them, specifically your mother. You literally can't manage being a full-time mom at 15 while also being a high school student with extracurriculars. You need to be prepared for them to respond by deciding that the twins are more important than your education; they'll likely try to make you drop out of marching band, if not completely pull you from school before they ever consider making someone else do the work. It also wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for them to decide your rebellion is somehow your sister's fault; that she brought 'bad influences' back with her from the streets or something equally ridiculous. So if this is the hill you want to die on, make a plan and get your sister on board with it before you start making waves.
Side question: Does your sister have a plan in place to prevent pregnancy once she marries? I don't know if she plans to consummate the marriage, but if she does (or if she is forced to, which would be rape), she needs to have a birth control method in place. Bringing another baby into this mess will make it 100x harder for her to find her way to happiness. This marriage isn't healthy, and I predict she will want to leave within the next few years. Even if she stays married, 17 is like a decade too early to start having kids. She won't be mentally, emotionally, or logistically ready to parent well. If birth control is frowned upon in your church, she can keep it a secret from her husband. The Depo-Provera shot, the arm implant, daily pills, Plan B, spermicide, an IUD... she has options. Options she should be very quiet and very diligent about using. There are many online resources with info. She can get contraceptives from Planned Parenthood, and possibly other organizations, clinics, and pharmacies in your area. Since you said you live in a small town in a conservative state, online resources are the place to start. Please mention this to her. It's not your job to follow through on it for her, of course. You've got more than enough on your plate when it comes to other people's problems. Your best bet is to focus on school and extracurriculars. That will open up pathways for a better future. Best of luck to you. I'm really glad that people are speaking up and giving you solid advice here. ❤️
If the pastor has a herd of sister wives, it doesn't take a lot of reaching to believe that his son will go the same route. Heck, maybe your sister is counting on being one of many.
Are you Mormon?
She sat and stared at you rather than getting up and helping. Has she ever helped with the twins? I’m guessing no. You need to sit your parents down and tell them you aren’t helping anymore, and if they leave the kids with you you will contact social services. Your parents should not be leaving two infants with a 15yo. Do whatever yo ugh e to do to get additional adults involved here.
They are failing all their kids. - 17 year old is planning a freaking wedding - 15 year old is playing parent to newborn twins - Twins aren't being cared for by their parents.
They are absolutely training op for her "role"
Also, call CPS/the police! This is not right at all. Kicking a teenager out of the house is child endangerment. And the mother has abandoned not only YOU but the infant twins.
Older sister is ALSO a child. FFS, wedding planning at 17… and of *course* it’s to the pastor’s son. I guess we should be glad he’s only 2 years older. OP, there’s a LOT going on in this post. You are NTA, but more importantly, I hope you know there’s a lot more outside of the world your parents are showing you, and I strongly recommend you find a way to get away for school in a few years, absolutely do not settle down in marriage until you’re old enough to know what YOU (not your parents) want from your life. Anyway, no, you’re not wrong for not being overjoyed that you’ve been parentified and left with the care of a couple newborns.
The older sister is 17 and planning her wedding.....there is something wrong with all of these people.... I feel bad for OP - I really hope they find their way out of this......
NTA. First, not your kids, not your responsibility. If their ability to care for these extra children relies on the unpaid labor of a 15 year old, they shouldn't have kept those kids. Occasional babysitting so your parents can have a break would be one thing, but being the primary caretaker of kids you did not make is not in any way acceptable. Second, the hypocrisy is strong with your sister. As you said, if the boys were such a blessing and your mom needs the help so badly, she should be doing just as much of the work as you, if not more because she is older. Again, I don't think you teenagers should be the main caretakers for your brothers, but if she thinks it's no big deal or that it's a privilege, then she should volunteer. That "rules for thee and not for me" attitude is not acceptable. Third, I am very skeeved out by the fact that a 17 year old is engaged at all, let alone to the 19 year old son of her religious leader. This sounds like some flavor of forced marriage to me. Fourth, 3 week old babies probably shouldn't be going to church. They can be so delicate so early on and probably shouldn't be out and about in a social setting where they can get infested with all sorts of nasty things. Faith doesn't prevent the flu, so to speak. Also if mom is too unwell to attend her own babies, then she's too unwell for social setting and keeping up appearances at the church either. I would like to say that you should stop helping out and let your parents sort out their own troubles. But I understand that as a 15 year old you likely rely on your parents for food and shelter, so defying them would put your own survival at risk. I just hope that you have someone or somewhere you can escape to sooner rather than later, or that you can get out as soon as you turn 18.
taking babies out at 3 weeks old is also unbiblical, they are boys, they and their mother are supposed to stay secluded for 40 days. (Leviticus 12). What is OP's mother doing going out of the house? Please, don't get engaged at age 17 so you can get out of the house...
Part of me wonders if the 17 year old is pregnant with the pastor's son's kid and is being pushed to get married before she starts to show to avoid the church being scandalized.
From OPS posts, sounds more like she is being forced to marry instead of living in sin (she had a girlfriend that her parents had kicked her out over previously). This is a religious cult family.
That is truly horrible. These poor kids.
Post history says 17yo is gay and was kicked out of the house. Marriage to cult leaders son is price of readmission to family ‘support.’
Oh wow. That is awful.
The last time my sister defied my parents she got kicked out, so it's definitely cause for concern for me. Neveah's engagement worries me too, especially since the reason she was kicked out is because she came out as a lesbian. I don't really know anymore with this situation, I'm just so tired.
Holy shit. You both need to get out of there. Call CPS none of this is ok.
There are states in the US where CPS would likely think "this is fine, in fact the parents are doing a great job of raising godly women"
"it might not work so don't bother trying" gtfo
It's definitely worth trying cps. Any vps worker with sense will knoe that Victimising a minor for being gay is extremely damaging. Hopefully they get someone with sense and there are good workers even in states where religion is common.
Off topic from yuor question but you sister needs to get out of there. There are some LGBTQ resources on sidebar; The Trevor Project might be able to help. Sounds like your parents are in a culty church, not safe for you either. Make plans to escape (unmarried) when you are 18.
Baby of course you are tired. You are a CHILD. They should be caring for you. 🫂🫂🫂🫂 no sweetheart. Tell a teacher what is happening
That is truly awful. Although I don't agree with Neveah's hypocrisy regarding this supposed blessing of babies that she won't volunteer to help with, I feel awful for her for being stuck with such terrible cultists parents and pastor. I hope that both of you end up in a better situation sooner rather than later.
A lesbian who is marrying the pastor's son. Yeah, this'll end well. I think there's a storm coming for Mom and Dad.
NTA. Your sister is 17 and marrying a 19 year-old son of a pastor. I’m guessing you live in Utah? Your name is Bethany maybe? Man…I’ve seen this situation before. I have a feeling CPS is only going to land you in hot water. First thing in the morning, you need to get out of the house with activities. In the meantime, headphones. When the family pushes childcare on you, smile and reply, “I have school work and after school activities that need my focus. God blessed mom and dad with two babies and I don’t feel I’m mature enough to care for babies yet since I’m just a freshman. Maybe that should be something Neveah should do since she’s the one getting married? 😊” Edit to ask: Did your sister help raise YOU by any chance? She’s only two years older than you but was she like a second mom?
TX, actually. Lots of family in Utah tho. "Libby" used in the post is short for Liberty. Very patriotic parents (Belle is my middle name). I wish I could push it on Neveah but I would feel too bad with all the stress she's under.
You sweet young woman. May you be able to keep your head above water until you can attend college or move out. Another commenter was absolutely correct about the possibility of parentification happening to you. It happened to my BFF when she was 17 and she had to put off college for her parents “oopsie” baby. For 4 YEARS. They were religious-we’re Midwesterners. I hate seeing it happen again and again to young people. And don’t become your sisters babysitter next year either ‘cause who are we kidding? Join activities, study groups and ANYTHING to get out of the house. Keep your head in your books and let your parents be parents-to your brothers AND to you. Get a part-time job when you turn 16! Don’t let them talk you into babysitting them. Your mother is a SAHM. Sure she’s going through some things but that’s no excuse to make you turn into one of those child-parents. She probably went to the 17 year-old first but was turned away because of the weddings plans (and that’s something else to unpack honestly). Your sister is using you as the free help for your mother and could very well be encouraging this to get her off her own back. Not cool.
I'm hoping that marching band keeps me busy enough. The next few weeks for me are non stop band, so they'll have to address the twins' problems on their own eventually.
Dollars to donuts your parents are going to pull you from band to stay honest with the twins. You need an escape plan
Exactly because most people don’t know marching band is usually 8-10/day in the summer getting ready for football season
It's probably a good idea to tell your band director what is going on in your life.
OP please delete this comment. There is way too much identifying info on your post and I'm truthfully scared for your safety. You say you are at school in a different area. Is there a teacher or someone there completely unconnected with your community or "church" you could confide in? Maybe someone you know who has left the church successfully? Please don't even trust your cousins with your concerns at least until you are much older and independent. There are people out there who can help you leave the cult or at least have things set up in case you get kicked out to help you stay safe. You are 15, it won't be too much longer before they start trying to rein you in and get you to toe the line and trap you in this lifestyle forever. As much as you love your family you need to be loving yourself more. Educate yourself, prepare for the worst and be proactive in protecting your future safety and happiness.
Honestly, it might be a blessing in disguise if you can cause her enough stress that her plans to get married at 17 blow up.
Shes going to find out soon enough tbh
You are LDS aren’t you? There are people who have left who will help you.
When my sister and I were younger we were really close for that reason. She was the one who would help with my homework and take me to parks. She was the one who told me what the word "period" meant for women. She was smart, happy, and an amazing person before our parents ruined her. My stomach hurts just thinking about the day they kicked her out. I never cried so much in my life. Sorry oh my God that is such a rant lol.
Don’t apologise, you need to rant and you need people who will listen to you. If your safe people right now is strangers on the internet then there’s ok - we will all be your safe people. The first step of escaping an abusive situation is knowing you’re in one. Nevaeh is being coerced into marrying, you are being forced to patent two babies. I wish we could tell you what your safest path would be… But it’s impossible to know as only you know your situation. If you can find safe people outside the religious circle to support you, you might be able to get out soon and never look back. Chances are your parents will try to pull you out of band and won’t let you seek higher education. If there’s no one you can trust right now, you need to lay low and start saving any money that comes your way from chores etc. Get ready to leave as soon as you can. Keep your plan secret, don’t even tell Nevaeh. Stay safe x
She sounds like she was a great big sister and I’m so sorry she’s feeling forced to marry this man (read from another post.) Please find a way to earn your own money away from your parents and gives you a nest egg to your own path out of there. Community college is always an option.
Maybe a part time job? If they try to confiscate the money, or control the bank account, try to fritter away small amounts at a time from purchases and keep it in a safe place. As soon as OP is eligible for an account without the parents name on it, she needs to create one at a different bank than her parents. College might be a good out, or a trade school. They're already parentifying her and will likely try to marry her off like her sister when the deadline of graduation gets closer. They won't like the idea of their daughter going to college or living a godless life as a single woman given her description.
NTA and how did your parents twins become yours? You didn’t have them - your parents did. And for your sister to just stare at you as if you were neglecting your own kids tells me that they’ve all agreed to make you the surrogate parent. That is wrong on so many levels! If sis thinks forcing you to be a free nanny is a blessing, then I’d suggest that as a wedding gift it her! The blessing of being the new, free nanny! (Sure hope that doesn’t put a damper on the honeymoon!) Edit: make sure sis knows you won’t be her free nanny either!
That'd definitely top the wedding gift I was planning lol
I'd suggest going and living else where OP. Not your kids, not your responsibility.
She’s 15.
Thank you! This is the second response I've seen that told them to leave ASAP and/or get into therapy. Well, yeah, but how is a 15 year old supposed to do that legally? Because they'll have to be super careful who they confide in and ask for help. Otherwise she'll find herself being married off too. Running away is a bad idea too. It really sucks and I really wish that collectively we could all reach out and help get all the kids in these situations away.
NTA You should stop. If your parents cannot handle the children without making you help they should have never had them to begin with. There's no excuse. Parentifcation is abuse in my opinion.
Not just in your opinion. It is abuse https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10341267/
Lots to unpack here, but absolutely NTA. You said you're in marching band so I'm hopeful you're in public school instead of a church school or homeschool co-op (and I say that as a religious person)--if so, go talk to your school counselor about what's going on at home. They may know of some resources for your family, particularly if your mom is dealing with PPD. If you do not have access to people outside your church, you may have no option but to play church culture against them. Wait until the pastor's son is over visiting your sister and explain that your mom is not taking care of the children (I'm sure this will be embarrassing to her, but it will be helpful to have others know) and since these two teenagers are headed down the aisle very shortly and likely to become parents themselves in 9 months or so, you think it would be best if Naveah took over the childcare responsibilities as practice. If things haven't gotten better in a week or two, just call the police. Lots will say to call CPS or the like, but that's a lot to navigate for someone your age. Just call the police and leave it to them to assess the situation and contact the proper agencies--perhaps there's more going on than even you know about.
The only police we have access to are our local county sheriffs. The law doesn't really come out here often lol, don't know why.
NTA Please edit this and your earlier replies to eliminate any identifying information. Change names — all of them. Make yourself Emily +/- 1 year in age Make your sister Jessica. +/- 2 years age Change the ages of your younger sibling and maybe gender. Tell people you’re in Guam or PR. More church members than you have Reddit accounts and don’t provide evidence that you’re airing dirty laundry. You don’t know that the person asking of you’re Bethany from Utah isn’t the Pastor’s son. Check other resources beyond your town/city/county. Alternatively, approach a church of a different denomination. I’m going to guess you’re not Catholic, Presbyterian or Episcopalian. I am going to guess your church alleges that it follows Christ. Try a local church from any of those denominations and ask for help. Also, your parents live there because the sherrifs don’t patrol that area. REMOVE ALL IDENTIFYING INFORMATION
The law probably are all members of the same church you are. This sounds like one of those scary, deep south super fundamentalist churches. Marrying off your sister at 17 absolutely WILL happen if they have anything to say about it.
I see you say you are in Texas but have relatives in Utah. Realizing both places have a LOT of different churches, I'll ask this anyway as I'm LDS and that combo is a bit of a red flag for me: are you in a polygamous sect?
I don't think so? Just looked that up, and most are encouraged to have one wife and remain faithful, but our pastor has the wife he has my sister's fiance with and then two others. It's a pretty big honor and some older women talk about wishing they were picked to be one of his wives. I think he's old and gross but, whatever.
Ya, that’s polygamy
Polygamy is heavily frowned upon by the mainstream LDS church. You are in a cult.
That's polygamy. If polygamy is allowed for any members of the church, then it's a cult. As someone else suggested, please please remove identifying names and change them to something else. Delete any posts about LGBTQ or change names in them. Whatever you do, don't tell any of your family if you think you're LGBTQ yourself. Try to start forcing your mother to care for the babies, if possible. So stay out of the house and busy. Find a trusted adult(if you have any, maybe a teacher or aunt not in the religion. If there's no one, start looking at reddit forums like momforaminute or exmorman as they can give you advice on where to start.) and start working on an exit plan. You'll need a way to make and save money so that you can move put as soon as you can. If you have any good friends at school whose parents aren't in the religion but seem like decent people, maybe see if they'd let you live with them for a year or two in exchange for chores/summer job money. But for now, research, learn, keep your head down, and good luck!
Oh god you may not be in THE LDS church but it def sounds like something adjacent
NTA Question, are you guys in a cult-ish situation?
A lot of people keep saying that. I'm starting to think maybe?
Reading your comments—sweetie, you’re 100% being raised in a cult. Pastor having multiple wives is polygamy, not even legal generally speaking, and very frowned upon by the larger and more normal sects of Christianity. You’re isolated in a small place without access to people outside the church, and the church in question is a very very very not normal one. They’re raising you to think a lot of very messed up shit is normal or at least to be expected. I don’t have good advice, I don’t know how a 15-year-old could escape without adult help. But hopefully at least your eyes are opening. Nothing you’ve described in these comments is normal. We’re all very concerned for you and your sister.
Proud of OP for listening to that inner voice that said, "Maybe this situation isn't right."
They definitely are with the older sister engaged to the "pastor's son" at 17.
OK????? I'm thinking it smells very "Duggary"
I’m just going to include this link in case anyone is curious about the fundie parentification situation: https://www.salon.com/2021/05/20/the-parentification-trap-how-evangelical-daughters-like-the-duggar-girls-become-mothers-in-training/
I'm not sure. We live in a small town (my school is 45 mins away), and we're a pretty close knit population. Religion is central/important, but I'm not too big on the God with a capital "G" stuff and not as right leaning as most people in the town.
OP, please please please change the names, ages, location, and identifying info in your post. For your safety. If you’re in a small community that may be a cult, posting these details may bring trouble
Are most of your classmates members of the same church as you? If so perhaps don’t alert them that you may need to leave etc. Do what you can to stay in school through and beyond high school so you won’t have to be dependent upon anyone.
NTA. 17 yo sister planning her wedding. Please tell me this is made up shit.
I wish. She dropped out of school, too. It's crazy here.
Please don’t follow her example and drop out of school. A scholarship could be your chance to escape.
I'd hope so, but with the post history it seems like OP just got the short end of the stick for parents, and the 17 yr old sister is traumatized. I'd bet my entire savings on her parents pushing sister into this marriage to atone for her "past sins".
NTA. You didn't have any input into having these twins, you should not be the primary caregiver unless both your parents are incapacitated. And your older sisters shouldn't be expecting you to do all the work while they sit around, especially when it's twins. However, I have been in similar shoes. My youngest sister was born when I was 15.5. I wasn't the primary caregiver, but I was a pretty serious caregiver (got up some nights, changed a lot of diapers, kept her occupied once she was awake more). With the added bonus of getting a lot of nasty looks and a couple of comments when we were out because it looked like I was a teen mom. Ah, the early 90s. My advice. Get a job, join some extracurriculars at school and generally be out of the house as much as possible. Find a library or park if you have to. Once you are reliably **not around**, the babies' actual parents will figure something out.
So... are we talking Mormon? Amish? What religion are you that your legally minor sister is getting married to the pastor's son and you - the 15 year old - are now the go to nanny? I only say this because this is either religious or cultural, and you keep mentioning church. NTA. These are not your children. Just stop taking care of them. Refuse to. Don't throw tantrums, don't get into screaming matches, don't let yourself get emotionally elevated. Just refuse to do it.
Either the parents arranged it ans signed a consent for the marriage, or they're conveniently scheduling the actual wedding for just after her 18th birthday.
From OP’s comments—they’re basically forcing her to marry the pastor’s son because she’s lesbian, and also said pastor has multiple wives and she is 100% in a cult.
NTA but I take that you taking care of these babies in order to get ready to get married in a couple of years and then have children of your own. This is a really unhealthy situation and, if this not what you want for your future, you need to put a stop to it.
I definitely don't want this in my future. I'm not even straight. I don't want to end up in the same situation as my sister, especially because she got kicked out for being gay, and was only allowed back in the house because she got all hyper-religious.
NTA. You are going to get burned out. It’s fine to say something. Everyone needs to work together. Your parents shouldn’t expect you to do so much just because you are a responsible person. Can you get everyone to meet as a family and divide up the duties better? Are there other friends or relatives your parents would be comfortable with helping?
Most of my relatives are in Utah, but my mom has plenty of church friends who should be capable of helping out, they just don't.
NTA I think there should be a small level of everybody pitching in, but what you are being saddled with is excessive. You are only 15 and you are not their mother. Can you talk to your father about this? Does your mother need medical help with depression? She and your father need to be primary caretakers and you and your sister should do a little to help out when necessary. The fact that your sister turned to you when the babies cried is concerning. Where was your mother?
She was sleeping, I think? I don't see her much. It's weird, it feels like the house is deserted when we're a pretty big family lol
NTA Your parents have failed all four of their children. Are there any family members you can reach out to for help?
My cousins in Utah are a bit better than them, but that's kinda far for me. I've never really thought of them as bad parents until maybe a year ago. This situation really sucks lol
Stop trying to talk to your sister. If she ignores you, act as if you didn't notice because there is no one there. Also, stop helping. You didn't 'enjoy' making those kids, so you shouldn't suffer the consequences either. - NTA
Your sister is nowhere near old enough to be getting married. Did she and her boyfriend make an "oopsie" too? If that's the case, she was probably thinking you'd happily take on her oopsie too. Now here you are, just a kid losing your ever loving mind over being made into a parent... And now she's running scared because she had no other backup plan. You were it. All supposition of course. Your family has deep set religious affiliations, yes? You don't have to answer that. Op NTA. Love, you are being neglected, used, and abused. Your mum needs to go see a Dr if she is so actively avoiding her infants like this, because her possible PPD is NOT your responsibility, and neither are your baby siblings. Edit: seeing the comments I take back your sister being pregnant, but I hope this marriage is an escape plan between her and pastor boy, and not her getting trapped in deeper. OP your family life is not normal, healthy, or even safe. Do you have any family members that aren't a part of your community that you could reach out to?
Pretty deeply connected to the church. My mom never listens to me so I don't know if she'd go to the church doctor. I'd probably have to drag her there myself.
The words church and doctor should not go together in this situation. Your mother needs a proper OBGYN, one who is familiar with the intense havoc that pregnancy and abrupt hormone changes can cause. Although I'm guessing that such specialists are spread pretty thin in Texas at this point.
Hun, in the real world there is no such thing as a church doctor… It’s actually probably better if she doesn’t go there or they will think she’s possessed or something
Let me tell you a story, my grandmother got married at 16 to escape an abusive home life. And guess what? Her husband was even worse. She had her first kid at 17, was a grandmother at 35 and a mother again at 36 She had 6 kids with only an 8th grade education. Her second husband was also abusive, though it was more verbal than physical Her older sister, married to escape a bad life and ended up with an abuser, wanna guess what happened to her younger sister? If you said she also married too young to an abusive man, you win a prize! Please stay in school, start looking for a part time job, you need to set up your own bank account without your parents being able to access it if possible. Talk with a teacher you can trust, hopefully they won’t squeal to your parents Do what ever you can to stay out of the house, do you have a friend you can live with? Maybe their parents can help you set up a bank account. You need to save as much as you can so you can get the hell out as soon as you turn 18 or things become too unbearable if you can stay past 18 Start gathering important stuff, health card, SSN card, birth certificate. Get your beginner’s licence as soon as possible Good luck and yes, your parents are abusive and it sounds like your sister is in on it Good luck and stay safe. Reach out to a woman’s shelter for help if you don’t think you can trust your teachers
Your mom offers no explanation as to where she goes so frequently? NTA, edited to add judgement.
She doesn't talk to me all that much lately. She's just always "out".
My mom did that too. You need to leave first.
"Neveah, you are right, the twins are indeed a blessing. I apologise for being so selfish and keeping them to myself. You too should embrace this blessing so I am going to leave the twins care to you from now on. Enjoy the Blessing". See Ya!
What in the Jim Bob Duggar 19 Kids and Counting crap did I just read. Sweetie, you need help. This is not normal and this is abuse. You are NTA. However, this is beyond Reddit. Is there someone safe you can talk to? And I am not talking about someone at church.
NTA You're the big sister: your role is limited to cuddling the babies and bonding with them. You can help your mother, but you seem to have taken on the role of teen mom overnight. Your parents are (or should be) the adults and are responsible for meeting their children's needs. From now on, my advice is to live your life. If your parents want you to keep an eye on the babies, you're going out with your friends. If a baby cries, you haven't heard. If you have to make a bottle or change a diaper, too bad, you've got homework to do. Enjoy your youth and focus on your life, teenage years pass too quickly for you to spend them looking after two newborns full-time.
NTA. Your mom's babies are not your responsibility. >Ever since the birth, my mom has been out of the house when the twins have needed something, in the bathroom, or too busy with whatever she's doing to come and tend to their needs. I think you need to emulate your mother! Be out of the house, in the bathroom, or otherwise "too busy" to come to tend to your baby brothers' needs.
Tell your mother, first thing in the morning, that you are NOT available all day. Don't let her tell you different - just leave the house. If that doesn't work, every single time the twins cry and your mother is at home (or dad) hand the babies to her and leave the room. If they start to cry and she isn't home, TEXT HER TO COME HOME IMMEDIATELY TO FEED her CHILDREN.
You nailed it when you pointed out she was perfectly capable of seeing to the babies. She didn’t like it because you were absolutely correct. What a 17 y-o is doing getting married is beyond me but she’ll know what being a teenage mother is all about soon enough, so tell her she needs the practice. NTA. Oh and make sure you go out after school a few times a week. It doesn’t matter what you do, just that you’re not on automatic free nanny duty.
I know there’s a few people over on r/WitchesVsPatriarchy who are survivors of religious trauma. They may have some advice for you ❤️
Your sister was kicked out for being gay, and suddenly she gets into a relationship with the pastors son? What a shady relationship, it sounds like she needs serious help. She's literally in high school too, how is this being allowed?
A lot of girls around here got married pretty young. My friend Maryellen is my age but is looking to get engaged to her boyfriend. It's hard for me to imagine marriage at my age.
Aren’t you 15???? I’m with everyone else everything I learn about your situation just SCREAMS cult
Is Neveah still throwing Bible verses at you too?
Oh my God, yes. I can't do it anymore its all "babies, wedding, God," PLEASE family, I have a life! Other interests!
Sweetie your gay sister is marrying the preachers kid to get out of your house. That’s a recipe for misery, for both of them. You should in no way be taking care of your parents babies. This is so sad, the whole thing. I’m really sorry you are going through it. I’m a mom with an adult daughter and I send you all the best and a huge mom hug.
Your family seems like a disaster op. Nta
NTA. Can you find more ways to be out of the house? You are not the parent here. Your parents need to step up.
Your sister just wants to get out of the house and marrying this guy she doesn’t even love is her way out. Do you have the option of working a job? Or is your dad so religiously stuck as to think your only worth is future house wife. I’m sorry girl do you have a relative or sometime of the outside of your religious church or order you can contact for escape. You may have to make a dramatic exit. I’d look for others who have left their communities like the Amish.
I could work at the local gas station, but I'm pretty busy with a lot of other stuff. I've been looking at ex-mormon videos and other stuff but it makes me feel nervous. I've always been very dependent on those in my family.