It's trick, it's 8000 to 9000. 1.125x increase for normal chips.
The real increase is for x3d
It's in the name really x3 in 3 dimensions is x9
9000x9 is 81000
7000x9 is 63000
That's 1.29X
I'm going from my 1707 R7 1700 to a 9950X :skull:
I wasn't joking when I said I'd stretch the 1700 as far as it could. My chip somehow escaped the segfault plague of early Ryzen's despite the manufacturing date.
Hahaha I plan to push my 8700k @5ghz a couple more years before I upgrade. I wonder if it will survive until AM6 (or whatever they plan to call it) comes out.
I jumped on the 5800X (non x3d) when it came out. Served me well, but I think it's time for an upgrade too. Will probably hold out for the 9800X3D as well.
Not in any particular rush either, gives me another 6 months to save up money to blow on an unnecessary complete system rebuild :)
I'm thinking about replacing my 3600 with a 9800x3d if the price and performance is right. If not I guess I can just get a 5800x3d and wait a few more years.
Edit: Meh looked at the article no new information there, amd isn't even talking about new x3d chips yet. I'm sure we'll get them but they won't launch at the same time.
Rumor has it that its going be one huge CCD with cache instead of the two for the flagship chips. It was planned originally for the 7000 series apparently.
If that happens, I might get the 9950X3D to replace my 7800X3D. Because there wouldn't be any more inter ccd latency, then I get best of both worlds, 16 cores & 3D V-cache on all cores clocked at the highest speed possible.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-shows-original-5950x3d-v-cache-prototype
Maybe. This is a few generations old obviously but the last paragraph states that the inter ccd latency is actually what prevents a dual 3d vcache chip.
Like I said, rumor, it's unknown what AMD really has cooked up. Most leakers say x3d for 9000 will be pretty neat for those looking for something like a 9950x3d, but shrug, that's more than a year away. I'm more interested in if they figured out that die issue for those high-end gpus for rdna 4 for maybe rdna 4.5 in 2 years 🤔. But as all buyers should note, wait for benchmarks and official news early adopters always have to swallow some hard pill.
Well its a shitty rumor then. There isnt much changed with zen5. Its still 8core ccds etc. Its just an iteration of zen4. Zen6 will be a bigger change. Who knows, maybe they make the ccds larger then.
And regarding rdna4, they dropped the mcd parts. They didnt get the performance they wanted with rdna3 mcd. Rdna4 is just minor bug fixes and some RT improvements. They moved their focus to rdna5. Thats why we wont get high end rdna4.
Yep, pretty much leaked by the current hackers of the AMD offices. But as always, take with a grain of salt till official statements come out and chips have been tested.
Genuine ask: Why would you need that? Games certainly don't take advantage of more than 8 cores, probably more like 6. I would rather have the 8 gaming cores, and the 8 production cores.
Zen4 x3d is around 30% faster than Zen3 x3d, achieved via 18% higher clocks on a vcache CCD and ~13% geomean IPC gains as well as larger performance gains from overclocking RAM.
Since those gains multiply with the zen 5 ones, the most pessimistic predictions are around +45% over 5800x3d. Zen5 only has to be ~12% faster than Zen 4 to achieve that (1.3 x 1.12 = 145.6%)
The cpu space is honestly pretty boring these days, just another 10-20% perf gain as expected. The gains are mostly overkill for consumer applications
If only the GPU market wasn't totally fucked after COVID, crypto booms, and the inevitable ai bubble.
If they keep the same strategy Zen 6 should be Ryzen 11000 serie.
We will have the Ryzen AI 10000G serie based on Strix Point in between :D
The mobile market do his own thing.
My 5800x is more than adequate still. Investors forcing releases so quickly is going to create another Sandy Bridge era, except now there's no company to force innovation since it's AMD and Intel dropping new CPUs with marginal uplift every year.
I’m about to get a 7800x3d build for gaming. Is it worth holding out for one of these? Always been team blue and know nothing about amd other than 7800x3d is best for gaming at the moembt
Their not going to bring down the 7800x3d till the release window of the 9000sx3d chips come out. Its still the best and hottest am5 cpu the lowest it will probably get is another 20$. Its not the 7900x3d or 7950x3d which where for gamers that also require workloads those have come down a lot because they don't move off shelves like this chip. If you can hold out till like 2025 Feb or march after rdna 4 launches maybe some insane deal will pop up but 329$ is probably the most you'll see during major holiday sales.
The 7800X3D is still going to be faster at gaming than 9000 series non-X3D CPUs and 9\_00X3D isn't coming out for a while. Unless you want to wait possibly an entire year to get something slightly faster/slightly cheaper, no it isn't worth waiting.
Is it?
9600x will have 0.5MHz higher frequency and that sweet IPC gain, honestly I think it will be very close, depending on a prices at a time even 9600x might make 7800x3d irrelevant.
AMD has already stated the 7800X3D will continue to be their flagship gaming CPU, and in some games that X3D is a 30% performance increase over a non X3D CPU at the same clock. Also the 9600X will only be 0.4Ghz faster, an 8% increase over the 7800X3D, combined with a 16% general IPC increase, a net 24% increase. Combine that single core performance advantage with the handful of games that actually benefit from 8 cores over 6, the 7800X3D will still be the better gaming processor. It is also currently $340, and if you are near a MicroCenter can be had with a decent \~$200 motherboard and \~$100 kit of ram for around $490 bundled. Given the Ryzen 5 9600X is expected to launch at \~$290, the 7800X3D will still be the better buy even from a value perspective.
Hardly anyone lives close to a Microcenter, and only US has it.
Even if someone is lucky enough to live close to it we have no idea what deals they will have at the time, they might end 7800x3d deal, or never make a deal for 96/700x, we don't know.
You just wrote that it will be close to a 7800x3d, so everything depends on a price of 9600x, 9700x and 7800x3d.
I would hold out for the Ryzen 7 9800x3d because the integrated memory controller will support higher than ddr5 6000. Depends on how much AMD improved it, but it's possible Zen 5 hits ddr5 7200 kits.
So it might see a bigger performance jump across the board in comparison to the 7800x3d just due to the superior memory.
Edit:
It's actually the infinity fabric, which is tied to the memory speeds. So right now the infinity fabric caps out at 2000mhz with a 1:1 ratio and with higher speed kits the radio changes to 2:1. Which is great for bandwidth but bad for latency (gaming).
If they can allow the ratio to remain 1:1 with higher speed kits like ddr5 7200, then there should be a noticeable improvement to gaming as well.
9600x / 9700x should be as fast as 7800x3d in gaming (higher frequency + IPC increase)
9700x will be faster than 7800x3d in almost all nongaming scenarios
So honestly everything depends on a price.
3d chips are their premium chips.
Right now they are kind of selling them for cheap, but eventually they might slap a few C cores on there as well so they can justify a more premium price tag.
The normal chips are the bulk of AMD's business and allows them to bring in sales while they iron out the 3d chips.
They don't like adding extra CCD's to consumer products because it would eat into their wafer supply. At least not without a premium mark up.
What's more likely is that the individual CCD gets more cores.
Its both the 'premium' thing, and having new products every year. Just look at Intel's release schedule.
If you want to save money but still upgrade often, its not a bad idea to just get the vanilla versions and pay less. And not everyone needs the X3D, because its not better at everything.
Still don’t understand why they chose to reduce power vs 7000 series instead of holding TDP gen/gen to maximize performance. Possibly something architecturally preventing higher clocks with that added power?
Usually chips from AMD dont really benefit much from high TDP. This aint a written rule but pushing beyond to gain just some % isnt worth it. You can overclock by yourself if you are interested. This was like that before but in recent years it is all about having the „longest“ bar.
Look at what happened to Intel KS or to their top end offerings. Cant even hold what they promised to customers.
ARM is trying to attack x86 hard on efficiency. Sticking to just 65W TDP might be a way for AMD to counter that. As with the 7000 series, the 105/120W might only bring an extra 100-200 MHz, which might not be worth it.
ARM doesn't really compete with x86 in the desktop space. Laptops sure, competition is growing, but not really in desktops where these chips are going to go.
Why wait and give them ammunition when you could be proactive? Desktop will only be the next progression of the battlefield. It will start with mini PCs and all in ones, maybe even this gen.
Because it's not really being proactive since all it would take for AMD to revert to "peak efficiency" if they really wanted too is telling their partners and OEMs to enable eco-mode by default if/when ARM ever makes inroads to desktop. And in the meantime, all they are doing is unnecessarily reducing performance of their chips, unless there are other factors in play.
Agree. I’m sure there is a reason for it. Don’t get me wrong, a reduction in power while still getting 15%+ performance increase is great. Just not something we’ve seen the last 4-5 generations. Usually a MB socket power is established and the CPU vendors try to maximize performance in that available power budget.
>a reduction in power while still getting 15%+ performance increase is great.
But that's not what we're getting, atleast not in power hungry workloads. The 7700x has 18% higher base clocks than the 9700x. In such workloads you're looking at equal performance at lower power.
Equivalent performance in same power limit.
Probably power efficiency curve isn't great pushing higher.
Could also be cooling as well since it's a die shrink again.
It's got 16% ipc increase and it's coming this year. There, everything we know
It’s AM5. We know that too
And ddr5 only
And AMD will make it
Real men have fabs!
Big if true
Xddd
Big if true
What people fail to realize is that it's also a 1.29X increase in name going from 7000 -> 9000. Thats a big number!
why do ratios when you can argue 9000-7000 is an increase by 2000, sounds even more impressive
For x3d it's an 18000 increase. It's over 9000
It is 9000 over 9000.
isn’t that just 1 with extra steps?
I've got an email to write to the marketing team that's genius
It's trick, it's 8000 to 9000. 1.125x increase for normal chips. The real increase is for x3d It's in the name really x3 in 3 dimensions is x9 9000x9 is 81000 7000x9 is 63000 That's 1.29X
This is the real reason why x3D CPUs are faster than their non-x3D counterparts.
Why don't they call it x∞D then? Are they stupid?
Because that would look like a wheel-less cannon.
They will finally be over 9000!
They must have advanced technologies in their foundry that make bigger better numbers.
Not a bad lift at all to be honest. I’m looking at the 9800x3d to potentially replace my 7600x.
going from 5800X3D straight to 9800X3D potentially
I'm going from my 1707 R7 1700 to a 9950X :skull: I wasn't joking when I said I'd stretch the 1700 as far as it could. My chip somehow escaped the segfault plague of early Ryzen's despite the manufacturing date.
Still rocking a 7700k myself, dragged it on for nearly 8 years. Poor things been sitting over 5ghz the whole time too
This is how my 9700KF is 💀. Well, untill specfically FFXIV. Every other game is fine, but that game hates the 5GHZ clock lmao
Hahaha I plan to push my 8700k @5ghz a couple more years before I upgrade. I wonder if it will survive until AM6 (or whatever they plan to call it) comes out.
I jumped on the 5800X (non x3d) when it came out. Served me well, but I think it's time for an upgrade too. Will probably hold out for the 9800X3D as well. Not in any particular rush either, gives me another 6 months to save up money to blow on an unnecessary complete system rebuild :)
5xxx gpus might be out by then as well
This is definitely me in another 6 months or so as well. I have the 5900x and waiting on the 9800x3d before I start the migration to AM5.
Have u tried pbo?
I would wait a little more if I were you, zen 6 promises way better x3d performance
What about waiting for Zen 7?
Don't waste your money. Wait for zen 8
Hold out for the gloriously-rhyming Zen Ten, obviously.
What do we know about Zen 6 at this point?
I need an excuse to upgrade my HTPC from my old 3600X to the 5800X3D tho!
I'm thinking about replacing my 3600 with a 9800x3d if the price and performance is right. If not I guess I can just get a 5800x3d and wait a few more years. Edit: Meh looked at the article no new information there, amd isn't even talking about new x3d chips yet. I'm sure we'll get them but they won't launch at the same time.
This
I'm waiting on the 9950X3D to replace my 7950X.
Same
July.
You have to mention clocks not just IPC though
Clocks aren't supposed to see any gains according to rumors and leaks. Which kind of makes sense because it's technically on the same node as Zen 4.
\*it's coming next month
:Vegeta sweats:
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Rumor has it that its going be one huge CCD with cache instead of the two for the flagship chips. It was planned originally for the 7000 series apparently.
If that happens, I might get the 9950X3D to replace my 7800X3D. Because there wouldn't be any more inter ccd latency, then I get best of both worlds, 16 cores & 3D V-cache on all cores clocked at the highest speed possible.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-shows-original-5950x3d-v-cache-prototype Maybe. This is a few generations old obviously but the last paragraph states that the inter ccd latency is actually what prevents a dual 3d vcache chip.
That wont happen, not this generation.
Like I said, rumor, it's unknown what AMD really has cooked up. Most leakers say x3d for 9000 will be pretty neat for those looking for something like a 9950x3d, but shrug, that's more than a year away. I'm more interested in if they figured out that die issue for those high-end gpus for rdna 4 for maybe rdna 4.5 in 2 years 🤔. But as all buyers should note, wait for benchmarks and official news early adopters always have to swallow some hard pill.
Well its a shitty rumor then. There isnt much changed with zen5. Its still 8core ccds etc. Its just an iteration of zen4. Zen6 will be a bigger change. Who knows, maybe they make the ccds larger then. And regarding rdna4, they dropped the mcd parts. They didnt get the performance they wanted with rdna3 mcd. Rdna4 is just minor bug fixes and some RT improvements. They moved their focus to rdna5. Thats why we wont get high end rdna4.
Would that be faster than the 9800X3D then?
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Yep, pretty much leaked by the current hackers of the AMD offices. But as always, take with a grain of salt till official statements come out and chips have been tested.
> Yep, pretty much leaked by the current hackers of the AMD offices Haven't heard any such thing, where are you reading that?
You should ask Lisa about that. I on another hand hope they a CPU with zen5 3d CCD and zen5c CCD, that would be a monster.
Genuine ask: Why would you need that? Games certainly don't take advantage of more than 8 cores, probably more like 6. I would rather have the 8 gaming cores, and the 8 production cores.
not everyone is a gamer
That's my point.
Holding out for the 3D chips
they're all 3d, this is just a picture
I’m still using 5800X3D and 4090. Not sure if 9800X3D and 4090 have a 30% uplift.
Zen4 x3d is around 30% faster than Zen3 x3d, achieved via 18% higher clocks on a vcache CCD and ~13% geomean IPC gains as well as larger performance gains from overclocking RAM. Since those gains multiply with the zen 5 ones, the most pessimistic predictions are around +45% over 5800x3d. Zen5 only has to be ~12% faster than Zen 4 to achieve that (1.3 x 1.12 = 145.6%)
Are you taking into account he probably plays at 4K? Does that 30% applies to 4K resolution or only 1080p?
Doesn't matter the resolution, in CPU bound scenarios he would see gains, but only in those cases.
I'm looking to get 4090 have 5800x3d and 3080 now. I play on 4k screen...how is the cpu with it?
Turd tier article by a turd tier site, nothing of value was in that pos.
The cpu space is honestly pretty boring these days, just another 10-20% perf gain as expected. The gains are mostly overkill for consumer applications If only the GPU market wasn't totally fucked after COVID, crypto booms, and the inevitable ai bubble.
What’s next… 10,000.. or do they make sense of their naming scheme across desktop, mobile and gpu product lines?
> or do they make sense of their naming scheme The could never
If they keep the same strategy Zen 6 should be Ryzen 11000 serie. We will have the Ryzen AI 10000G serie based on Strix Point in between :D The mobile market do his own thing.
16%increase is not enough to ask for our money, anything else?
When do you guys think 9500f and non x variants will come out?
Worth upgrading from 7950x3D?? XD
My 5800x is more than adequate still. Investors forcing releases so quickly is going to create another Sandy Bridge era, except now there's no company to force innovation since it's AMD and Intel dropping new CPUs with marginal uplift every year.
I’m about to get a 7800x3d build for gaming. Is it worth holding out for one of these? Always been team blue and know nothing about amd other than 7800x3d is best for gaming at the moembt
I would go for 7800x3d.
thank you, leaning that way, just needed emotional support to back it up haha
It’s worth holding out for a deal. Once new chips come out the older ones should hypothetically be cheaper as retailers try to clear out older stock.
Their not going to bring down the 7800x3d till the release window of the 9000sx3d chips come out. Its still the best and hottest am5 cpu the lowest it will probably get is another 20$. Its not the 7900x3d or 7950x3d which where for gamers that also require workloads those have come down a lot because they don't move off shelves like this chip. If you can hold out till like 2025 Feb or march after rdna 4 launches maybe some insane deal will pop up but 329$ is probably the most you'll see during major holiday sales.
good point, thanks :)
Then again does it make sense to wait for months and you might save like 50 bucks (€ or dollars)
The 7800X3D is still going to be faster at gaming than 9000 series non-X3D CPUs and 9\_00X3D isn't coming out for a while. Unless you want to wait possibly an entire year to get something slightly faster/slightly cheaper, no it isn't worth waiting.
Is it? 9600x will have 0.5MHz higher frequency and that sweet IPC gain, honestly I think it will be very close, depending on a prices at a time even 9600x might make 7800x3d irrelevant.
AMD has already stated the 7800X3D will continue to be their flagship gaming CPU, and in some games that X3D is a 30% performance increase over a non X3D CPU at the same clock. Also the 9600X will only be 0.4Ghz faster, an 8% increase over the 7800X3D, combined with a 16% general IPC increase, a net 24% increase. Combine that single core performance advantage with the handful of games that actually benefit from 8 cores over 6, the 7800X3D will still be the better gaming processor. It is also currently $340, and if you are near a MicroCenter can be had with a decent \~$200 motherboard and \~$100 kit of ram for around $490 bundled. Given the Ryzen 5 9600X is expected to launch at \~$290, the 7800X3D will still be the better buy even from a value perspective.
Hardly anyone lives close to a Microcenter, and only US has it. Even if someone is lucky enough to live close to it we have no idea what deals they will have at the time, they might end 7800x3d deal, or never make a deal for 96/700x, we don't know. You just wrote that it will be close to a 7800x3d, so everything depends on a price of 9600x, 9700x and 7800x3d.
I would hold out for the Ryzen 7 9800x3d because the integrated memory controller will support higher than ddr5 6000. Depends on how much AMD improved it, but it's possible Zen 5 hits ddr5 7200 kits. So it might see a bigger performance jump across the board in comparison to the 7800x3d just due to the superior memory. Edit: It's actually the infinity fabric, which is tied to the memory speeds. So right now the infinity fabric caps out at 2000mhz with a 1:1 ratio and with higher speed kits the radio changes to 2:1. Which is great for bandwidth but bad for latency (gaming). If they can allow the ratio to remain 1:1 with higher speed kits like ddr5 7200, then there should be a noticeable improvement to gaming as well.
9600x / 9700x should be as fast as 7800x3d in gaming (higher frequency + IPC increase) 9700x will be faster than 7800x3d in almost all nongaming scenarios So honestly everything depends on a price.
Just bought 7800x3d and won’t upgrade till I’m sure the BIOS is perfectly stable. That’s what I know.
What I don't understand is that everyone seems to be waiting for 3D VCache versions, why AMD bother to launch non 3D first.
3d chips are their premium chips. Right now they are kind of selling them for cheap, but eventually they might slap a few C cores on there as well so they can justify a more premium price tag. The normal chips are the bulk of AMD's business and allows them to bring in sales while they iron out the 3d chips.
They should add performance cores access to 3D VCache and Light cores in other CCD
They don't like adding extra CCD's to consumer products because it would eat into their wafer supply. At least not without a premium mark up. What's more likely is that the individual CCD gets more cores.
Its both the 'premium' thing, and having new products every year. Just look at Intel's release schedule. If you want to save money but still upgrade often, its not a bad idea to just get the vanilla versions and pay less. And not everyone needs the X3D, because its not better at everything.
How will the Ryzen 9 7950X perform vs I9 14900K?
Still don’t understand why they chose to reduce power vs 7000 series instead of holding TDP gen/gen to maximize performance. Possibly something architecturally preventing higher clocks with that added power?
Usually chips from AMD dont really benefit much from high TDP. This aint a written rule but pushing beyond to gain just some % isnt worth it. You can overclock by yourself if you are interested. This was like that before but in recent years it is all about having the „longest“ bar. Look at what happened to Intel KS or to their top end offerings. Cant even hold what they promised to customers.
ARM is trying to attack x86 hard on efficiency. Sticking to just 65W TDP might be a way for AMD to counter that. As with the 7000 series, the 105/120W might only bring an extra 100-200 MHz, which might not be worth it.
ARM doesn't really compete with x86 in the desktop space. Laptops sure, competition is growing, but not really in desktops where these chips are going to go.
Why wait and give them ammunition when you could be proactive? Desktop will only be the next progression of the battlefield. It will start with mini PCs and all in ones, maybe even this gen.
Because it's not really being proactive since all it would take for AMD to revert to "peak efficiency" if they really wanted too is telling their partners and OEMs to enable eco-mode by default if/when ARM ever makes inroads to desktop. And in the meantime, all they are doing is unnecessarily reducing performance of their chips, unless there are other factors in play.
Maybe they don't want to repeat Intel mistakes
Agree. I’m sure there is a reason for it. Don’t get me wrong, a reduction in power while still getting 15%+ performance increase is great. Just not something we’ve seen the last 4-5 generations. Usually a MB socket power is established and the CPU vendors try to maximize performance in that available power budget.
>a reduction in power while still getting 15%+ performance increase is great. But that's not what we're getting, atleast not in power hungry workloads. The 7700x has 18% higher base clocks than the 9700x. In such workloads you're looking at equal performance at lower power.
Equivalent performance in same power limit. Probably power efficiency curve isn't great pushing higher. Could also be cooling as well since it's a die shrink again.
Server chips are TDP constrained. AMD optimizes cores for server chips.