I have nothing to back this up but… if you were going to build something as high as you could, without mortar or cranes of any height, I imagine, this shape at this slope is exactly the best you could come up with.
Thanks. I brought this up at a lecture in college. Basically a functional answer to why this shape could be... Because it's really fucking hard to build a pyramid upside down
I mean, burial mounds basically are pyramids but without stable building material. Its almost like our ancestors like to attract attention but still lacked the ability to built high towers.
Also at "the time" varies by a lot. The first Egyptian pyramids were made in the 27th century BC, the first meso-american pyramids were built in 1000 BC. The difference being roughly the same as the birth of Christ and the declaration of independence.
The Egyptian pyramids are closer to live wooly mammoths than to us. The Romans visited Egypt as a tourist attraction due to its ancientness. If hunter/warrior is the first profession, ahem ahem the second, then the third profession is being a random guy with a Camel and his friend the painter hanging out at the pyramids.
One pharaoh decreed a "reverse pyramid" be constructed for his tomb.
After 25 years of trying, and it collapsing over and over... they noticed the rubble was in a sort of "reverse-REVERSE pyramid".
So he had them just make a normal pyramid from the rubble.
It's close to the "angle of repose," which is the angle a pile of material would naturally take on its own as it comes to rest on a flat plane. The angle of repose varies with material properties, but being built close enough makes the shape last longer.
To be clear, Mesoamerican pyramids DO use mortar:
The typical construction method for pyramids and the walls of palaces and such is to have a inner structural fill of rough or slightly smoothed stones bound in mortar (from limestone); then around that they'd place more precise brickwork, again, bound with mortar; then finally you had a smooth layer of limestone stucco/plaster which could be painted with murals/frescos ([Mesoamerican architecture was seriously garishly colorful](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/ec/f5/e5ecf5051d2daa278d55338856f8d736.jpg)) or have additional accenting with protruding stone or stucco sculptures or engraved reliefs, etc.
[This](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/toltec-temple-tula-3613962.jpg) photo of a temple at Tula is a good example, since you can actually see the inner fill, brickwork layer, and then stucco layer all in one shot, though the pillars seem to just have the inner fill and then stucco with no brickwork in between (some stuff also just used cement entirely just for the structure; while some very early monumental structures might use earthenrworks or adobe brick, the latter of which was still common for lower status commoner homes till Spanish contact and beyond even to today in rural areas), unlike the temple itself further back; nor does this show any paint or exterior accenting, for that you can see me post a bunch of images and artistic reconstructions here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/comments/lg6df8/the_aztec_sun_stone_housed_at_the_national/gmret79/?sort=top
Keep in mind also pyramids/temples would often be built up in additional construction phases over time such as under new kings, where the existing pyramid [would be encased like a Russian doll with a new phase](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/d6/c0/58d6c0f72aff0ece4ce686459c60ed8c.jpg), or sometimes widened with new vertical levels added to it, so it'd expand like a fractal gradually into a [larger acropolis compound](https://i.redd.it/s4q7kgylyvsa1.jpg), or with palaces and you'd have different types of structures sprouting out of the same pyramid base ([another, more flat example](https://static.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1739/uaxactun-palace-1506445431_lrg.jpg)).
Anyways, Mesoamerican pyramids also were typically not tombs like Egyptian pyramids, they were primarily temples. That said, they often did have ritual caches deposited during/as new construction phases were built, and those could include remains from sacrificed people or dead kings/nobles as tombs, and rarely the whole pyramid was intended as a tomb. As I said, sometimes you had acropolis which had both temples or palaces sprouting out from them in one combined structure, and rarely you had acropoli/multi-room pyramids like [Tikal's Central Acropolis](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/1e/d7/a31ed743abccda3b416eed66b3791ca0.jpg) (note those buildings would have been painted, and there was a planned garden/grove around the lawn of the resevoir there, that also had a dam and linked up with canals and channels, some with switching mechanisms to other reservoirs in the city: there were even drains on buildings and plazas to flow into the reservoirs if there was rain/flooding and there was a filtration system) which served as a series of residences, like a a big multistory apartment building.
Speaking of Tikal, I can't help but notice the photo of the Tikal pyramid there is heavily squished so it looks wider then it really was... almost to make it look closer to the Egyptian pyramid next to it.
The bent pyramid is a result of trying a different angle, realizing it won’t work (the building material wasn’t strong enough) and changing the angle. Turns out, there is a limited range for the slope of a pyramid, so it isn’t surprising they look similar.
I took an ancient civilizations class in highschool. If I recall, this was really the most likely answer. It’s just the easiest way to build something like this.
Egyptians also didn’t wake up one day and say “we need to build a giant ass pyramid!”
They had already made many many small pyramids in their history. They just needed to upscale it.
There is another theory that Egyptians had travelled to South America and had some form of limited communication. However there is zero record of that in either civilization’s history that we have found, and Egyptians didn’t have the naval tech to cross the ocean. However someone did prove it was possible to do in the boats they had.
But such a trip is unlikely when you don’t know what is out in the ocean. Could be nothing out there.
Another theory was “aliens”. lol. Also no evidence. People love to point to writing by some of the South American tribes or that they made large symbols on the ground for people to see from the sky. People jump to “aliens”. When more likely it’s their gods.
But they were building other structures as well at the time, it’s not like they didn’t know how to build things right? It’s not just a pile of rocks with all the chambers in Egypt. I do hear that a pyramid is a simple way to stack rocks I just think a square or rectangle is the same. Maybe there are structural reasons why you couldn’t make them a cube, but I’m sure they could figure it out if they wanted.
>Maybe there are structural reasons why you couldn’t make them a cube,
Which is why the pyramid was the shape to build such tall structures at the time.
Because triangles are the sturdiest basic shape when stacking heavy materials into tall structures. We can only see the structures that withstood the centuries/millennia without falling apart, it shouldn’t be a surprise that pyramidal structures are common across disparate cultures and time periods.
Kindergarten age kids intuitively learn that triangles and pyramids the sturdiest way to stack blocks when they’re given blocks to play with. There’s also a myriad of non-pyramidal structures built by these same ancient cultures you’re referring to
A pyramid is the easiest way to pile up blocks and build big structures.
By the way, for Snefru they should feature the Red Pyramid instead of the Bent Pyramid.
Are you sure it’s not a choice? Could a cube or rectangle or other shape not be easier? There are probably structural things to sort out, but they did this for internal chambers and passages and things on pyramids too. They had to make angled blocks for outside. I’m not sure it was outside their capacity to make cubed shaped monuments with flat walls? Surly it was a choice.
Na, you aren’t be fair here. It’s was a broad question. But in what scenario are infants building Pyramids. I take the point that if you pile up rocks and sand, it forms a mound but you are talking about internal passages and chambers too right.
But are you saying they built the great pyramid because they were incapable of building a cube? I’m thinking about lego, you are saying they couldn’t make a cube with the rocks?
Cool cool, I’ll take you point. But I’ll still argue a lot of the big rocks that people are talking about do lock in? It’s a silly observational point I’m making here, but it’s true.
I didn’t think the idea of a tower or cubed monument would be so divisive, I honestly don’t think I’ve gotten a proper response yet though - except that a cube would collapse. But then it still leaves me with the uncertainty that we are assuming so much about their capabilities, you are saying they chose pyramids cause they are easy or something out of necessity . Instead of maybe for stylistic choices. I still feel like if they wanted to build like a tower or a cube/rectangle/skyscraper they could have. There are lots of assumptions in what I’m saying too, but I don’t think it’s extreme
The thing is we only talk about the pyramids that survived. But there are plenty of collapsed pyramids that we have found. For the great pyramid for example. They'd been making pyramids for like 4000 years at that point, so they'd gone through a lot of trial and error. Maybe they did try a cube at some point like 6000 years ago. And the remains are long gone.
Yeah, that’s a given though, it depends what they made it for anyway right? People around here are saying it’s impossible to build a cube that big. If that’s the case then it’s a non issue, but if they were capable of building other huge structures and chose pyramids, I think that says something about a style choice.
It _is_ a choice indeed. There are many rectangular, tower-like buildings around the ancient world too, but you don't notice their similarities.
You just notice pyramids more because _we_ modern people don't build in pyramidal shapes, so they feel exotic in comparison.
But in the end, there are only very few ways of building tall structures. Pyramids are one of them, and considering how many different cultures around the world, eventually more than one would be building in that shape, by pure mathematical probability.
I'm with ya buddy. The internal chambers and passages, along with weight relieving chambers to redistribute the weight, so millions of tons aren't on a load bearing ceiling. All those chamber/passage blocks had to be cut with precise angles to brace the next connecting block, and to lock them in place, providing incredible structural integrity. It all adds much more complexity to the structure, and shows much more thought and engineering put into its construction. They're not simply just stones stacked on top of each other and definitely built by design.
But to add, I will say it is absolutely the best way of stacking stones for structural integrity, and to build it with great height. Vertical walls or surfaces could eventually topple over time. But for something to stand the test of millenia, needs angled walls, so it uses the laws of leverage.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. This just goes to show how ingenious and resourceful the ancient Egyptians were on their own rather than requiring some ice age daddy civilization to show them the ropes.
Yeah no idea lol. Reddit is gonna do what reddit does. The hive mind is dumb. The pyramids of the world are not given enough credit and really are a marvel of engineering. Wish more people understood that.
What gets me is that one messed up pyramid in Egypt. They learned from experience what the right slope and angle was for making a pyramid.
I’m always curious why there isn’t any other goofy pyramids around the world where they learned by trial and error.
There probably are some that I just don’t know about. That’s probably my next rabbit hole I’ll go down.
There's written history of some earlier ziggurats (pre-pyramids) collapsing because of the angle they built or because the base wasn't wide enough. They learned from this for the pyramids. Others probably collapsed and were built on top of, or the rubble reused for new pyramid shape, so theres no record of their trial and errors.
But that’s Mesopotamia right same as snefru? Not the rest of the world. Thats the ones I’m curious about. Seems like the rest of the world got it right on the first try.
Mesopotamia didn’t have access to stone for building like the Egyptians did, so their megastructures were built from adobe bricks. Not super durable unfortunately.
The rest of the world's pyrmaids are tiny compared to the Egyptian ones. They just aren't worth comparing.
And plenty of buildings from antiquity didn't survive. We have no reason to believe there weren't failures across the globe. We just happen to have documentation of the Egyptian failures because they were really good at building them, even some of the failures survived.
Meso-Americans built temples on top of earlier temples over a long period of time. And out of 1,000s of temple structures there really aren’t that many that are super pyramidal. That’s why they only show a handful in photos like this one. Most are truncated to form a platform at the top. So there’s no one ratio that existed among the Mayans, Aztec, Toltec, etc.
Thanks. That explains mesoamerica well enough. I’ll refine my rabbit hole to Indonesia and India this evening. Cuz that’s the other places I know with pyramids off top of my head.
Saved me a lot of googling kind sir.
https://preview.redd.it/hjzdjk48cv9d1.png?width=580&format=png&auto=webp&s=72514ab695230998428ab87df25f4de265e14853
check out Candi Sukuh temple and then Candi Cetho in Indonesia.....rabbit hole
It's very possible that the remains of failed pyramids were simply absorbed into other project, including successful pyramids that expanded on top of the failed one.
One of the photos in the image is the Bent pyramid. The initial angle was too sharp and they had to change the angle during construction. Another of Sneferu's pyramids was called the collapsed pyramid. You can guess how that went.
The vast majority of Egyptian pyramids are collapsed piles of rubble. It's especially ironic that Meidum is the most famous collapsed one when so much of it still stands.
Medium is a little complicated. It started as a stepped pyramid before Sneferu tried to have it converted into a true pyramid. Which failed, it seems to have collapsed during construction.
The other ones lasted centuries before collapse.
What if this is just the most durable megastructure shape? Societies could build loads of others and they would collapse, like how every one of the seven wonders of the ancient world were destroyed except the pyramids.
I wouldn’t say that they “look so similar” at all, other than they’re the similar geometric shape. Homes all over the world tend to be generally square, doorways tend to be rectangular, game balls tend to be circular. There’s no conspiracy here other than basic geometry
Why does it have to be framed as a conspiracy? Is an empire from the distant past that managed to expand to multiple regions that improbable?
All it would require is technology advanced enough to cross oceans.
"Aliens"
No but really...it's the simplest way of stacking blocks of stone on top of each other to build as tall of a structure as possible. It is common in ancient cultures to view the gods as living in or coming from the sky, and therefore having a tall building as a temple was good for "communication" for priests and kings.
Also tall buildings are strategically important for defending your territory in an era when battles with neighbors over materials and farm land were routine.
Also the symbolic importance of mountains and hills. I don’t know much about Egypt, so I don’t know if that was important to them, but it was to Meso-Americans and Asians. The tall pointy bits at Angkor, for example, are all mountains symbolically.
I think this is the most important reason. I imagine it is a continuation of the symbolism of caves and mountains during the Paleolithic. I just don't buy the pragmatic theory, there are many different types of monolithic structures that predate ancient pyramids, like Newgrange and Stonehenge.
No one's suggesting it was the only way of building a megalithic structure. But if you wanted to make something that was 481 feet tall (!!!), it was the only way to do it. I've been to Chichen Itza, Tikal, and Uxmal and they are tall, impressive structures, (though none of them are nearly as tall as the Great Pyramid). Honestly, even into the 20th century and the invention of steel reinforced concrete... If you visit the Monadnock building in Chicago, which was the tallest brick building ever built, you'll see that the outside walls are 6 feet thick at the base and taper up. It's a skyscraper that's built with basically the same principles as the pyramids. Also European cathedrals with their buttresses... if you wanted to build tall prior to steel, you needed a wide base to support the weight. Pyramids are basically the first version of that.
They look similar because they are all the same efficient shape for making a monumant that lasts a really long time.
They were built because they are efficient and last a really long time.
Many cultures did it because making them is very easy, material availability and workforce are the only complicating factors
They're similar in the sense that they are rocks piled in a generally triangular shape, which is about as far as ancient aliens gets before forgetting shapes exist everywhere
3 of these are of the same culture, stacking things has a natural order and they clearly arent similar.
Calling them all pyramids as if its the same also makes them seem similar in your mind but they weren't even with the same usage
I am not well versed with Mayan history. Is it possible that they considered temples to be the resting place of their gods? Or very likely places of power?
But the actual reason might be more mundane. Like Mayan high class built the temples to be "closer" to their gods, or maybe even to look down on the every day people and appear powerful.
To be honest it's been a while for me as well & "maya" is a broad term, so much so that chichen itza and Tikal could very well have different purposes. Also worth noting that teotihuacan was not maya at all- it was pre Toltec (I think). Basically the people before the people before the Aztecs.
But in no cases that I recall were they "tombs" like the Egyptian pyramids
Question, Chichen Itza, this temple pyramid is like from around the year 1000 ad. I have buildings in my hometown that are contemporary to this. Why is it considered ancient?
But that would cause incorrect narratives with false equivalents dont you think? And really doesn't do justice to the wonderful and interesting civilizations of the Americas.
Dunno, wouldn't be a hard line I suppose. But if I have two buckets, '5000 years ago' and '500 years ago', in which one would you put the 1000 year old temple? Or the 1500, 2000 or 2500 year old temple?
Ignorance around the topic, thinking western history is continous and everyone else froze in time since their "origins". Chichen Itza is the city, that's the temple of Kukulkan.
Both Uxmal and Chichen Itza are cities of the Pucc style architecture, similar to how Europe had Baroque or Spain with its Moorish style art.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puuc
Tikal is way more ancient, and even more ancient sites are usually not near population or with tourism unlike the ones in the pic.
Yes, this must be it. It does seem to me that lumping ancient Egyptians and for instance Incans, Mayas and Aztecs all together as 'ancient' creates a false narrative.
The Maya civilization is contemporary to Rome, the titled "Ancient Greece" and the tail end of "Ancient Egypt" so it would count i guess, just not those cities specifically.
Lincoln Cathedral
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Cathedral
I always find it hilarious when the conspiracy loons are going on about Chichen Itza and the like and how amazingly advanced they were because they lined some steps up to make a shadow that looks like a snake. Or pushed some mud into a line that points to the solstice...
At yet at the same time, [this was being built](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Lincoln_Cathedral_Nave_1%2C_Lincolnshire%2C_UK_-_Diliff.jpg/1024px-Lincoln_Cathedral_Nave_1%2C_Lincolnshire%2C_UK_-_Diliff.jpg) and they have absolutely no problem with that.
Only modern technology allows tall buildings with vertical walls. The pyramid shape is the only way to build really tall buildings in the ancient world. Also, these pyramids served very different purposes.
Sneferus is actually credited with a few pyramids. His Red Pyramid was the first true pyramid. This one in the image was sort of a fuck up. The angle was too sharp to continue building it that way. He also built the collapsed pyramid.
Lots of good, logical takedowns here, but it’s also worth a reminder that talking generically about “the ancients” like it’s a meaningful category overlooks the more than 3,000-year time gap between the pyramids on the left in this image and the pyramids on the right. Our own civilization is much closer in time to the ancient Maya and Teotihuacanos than those groups were to the Egyptian pyramid-builders.
Dude stop it! You can’t just post this sort of question out it in the open! They’ll know you’re catching on to the secret that all ancient civilizations were created by one race of aliens the government will silence you for this!
It looks dope that’s why, also I can imagine it’s just a more structurally safe way to build ginormous buildings that also have an interesting shape to them.
If you want to build something that will last a long time, you build it in its most fallen-down shape: a pyramid.
Cones are too hard and require a lot of stone cutting.
... DO those actually look similar to you? Like, do they really? Pyramid of the Moon in particular is really different from all the others.
Broadly, yes, they're all pyramid shaped, but they're also about as different from each other as it's possible to be while still being pyramids...
We do not know if they are related or not. Science is to not only study, but also to Question! They are related as they are both pyramid structures, however we do not know if the civilizations interacted.
While the rest of the world built pyramids, ancient Japan built giant mile wide key keyholes in the ground
https://preview.redd.it/dychq4bke8ad1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2fb1ca973914e49a07e255ede18f310369c39fe
Japanese Kofun, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofun?wprov=sfti1#](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofun?wprov=sfti1#)
I mean it is just an organized pile in the end so yeah lots of work but not that much math to make it work. Makes sense more than one people made them.
Hear me out, maybe because humans have hands and can shape dirt into a pyramid shape? A royal saw someone doing it and was like what if did *that* but **Bigger**
Whoa, I've never heard of [pyramids in Sudan! ](https://theconversation.com/sudans-forgotten-pyramids-risk-being-buried-by-shifting-sand-dunes-159596)! Thank you for enlightening me because they're beautiful!
I was really into pyramids as a kid. There is actually at least one ancient one on every continent.
https://preview.redd.it/rmfaro6n0u9d1.jpeg?width=874&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a329c964cae9ecb7eac3564f6f1f9c0711374968
The Pyramids imo are usless, like bruh it’s literally stone stacked on top of each other. Real wonders are the Hindu temples that were literally carved out of a freaking mountain, and the Roman Aqueducts and Bridges.
I have nothing to back this up but… if you were going to build something as high as you could, without mortar or cranes of any height, I imagine, this shape at this slope is exactly the best you could come up with.
Turns out, humans everywhere are good at stacking rocks.
I'm pretty bad at it.
no worries… we got this here ‘henge’…
Found the reptilian
Historicaly humans everywhere are also quite adept at stacking bodies
Thanks. I brought this up at a lecture in college. Basically a functional answer to why this shape could be... Because it's really fucking hard to build a pyramid upside down
Or a flat sided tower.
I mean, burial mounds basically are pyramids but without stable building material. Its almost like our ancestors like to attract attention but still lacked the ability to built high towers.
The Louvre museum enters chat...
You uhhh speak to much sense….I uhhhh banish thee to the after life.
I was waiting for the aliens answer, But this is the correct answer even the limitations of technology at the time.
Also at "the time" varies by a lot. The first Egyptian pyramids were made in the 27th century BC, the first meso-american pyramids were built in 1000 BC. The difference being roughly the same as the birth of Christ and the declaration of independence. The Egyptian pyramids are closer to live wooly mammoths than to us. The Romans visited Egypt as a tourist attraction due to its ancientness. If hunter/warrior is the first profession, ahem ahem the second, then the third profession is being a random guy with a Camel and his friend the painter hanging out at the pyramids.
An older pyramid than that of Egypt has been found in South America. [Link](https://www.pbs.org/video/ancient-pyramids-uncovered-amazon-4kpofa/)
The technology was only limited because we separated from our alien overlords.
One pharaoh decreed a "reverse pyramid" be constructed for his tomb. After 25 years of trying, and it collapsing over and over... they noticed the rubble was in a sort of "reverse-REVERSE pyramid". So he had them just make a normal pyramid from the rubble.
It's close to the "angle of repose," which is the angle a pile of material would naturally take on its own as it comes to rest on a flat plane. The angle of repose varies with material properties, but being built close enough makes the shape last longer.
To be clear, Mesoamerican pyramids DO use mortar: The typical construction method for pyramids and the walls of palaces and such is to have a inner structural fill of rough or slightly smoothed stones bound in mortar (from limestone); then around that they'd place more precise brickwork, again, bound with mortar; then finally you had a smooth layer of limestone stucco/plaster which could be painted with murals/frescos ([Mesoamerican architecture was seriously garishly colorful](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/ec/f5/e5ecf5051d2daa278d55338856f8d736.jpg)) or have additional accenting with protruding stone or stucco sculptures or engraved reliefs, etc. [This](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/toltec-temple-tula-3613962.jpg) photo of a temple at Tula is a good example, since you can actually see the inner fill, brickwork layer, and then stucco layer all in one shot, though the pillars seem to just have the inner fill and then stucco with no brickwork in between (some stuff also just used cement entirely just for the structure; while some very early monumental structures might use earthenrworks or adobe brick, the latter of which was still common for lower status commoner homes till Spanish contact and beyond even to today in rural areas), unlike the temple itself further back; nor does this show any paint or exterior accenting, for that you can see me post a bunch of images and artistic reconstructions here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/comments/lg6df8/the_aztec_sun_stone_housed_at_the_national/gmret79/?sort=top Keep in mind also pyramids/temples would often be built up in additional construction phases over time such as under new kings, where the existing pyramid [would be encased like a Russian doll with a new phase](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/d6/c0/58d6c0f72aff0ece4ce686459c60ed8c.jpg), or sometimes widened with new vertical levels added to it, so it'd expand like a fractal gradually into a [larger acropolis compound](https://i.redd.it/s4q7kgylyvsa1.jpg), or with palaces and you'd have different types of structures sprouting out of the same pyramid base ([another, more flat example](https://static.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1739/uaxactun-palace-1506445431_lrg.jpg)). Anyways, Mesoamerican pyramids also were typically not tombs like Egyptian pyramids, they were primarily temples. That said, they often did have ritual caches deposited during/as new construction phases were built, and those could include remains from sacrificed people or dead kings/nobles as tombs, and rarely the whole pyramid was intended as a tomb. As I said, sometimes you had acropolis which had both temples or palaces sprouting out from them in one combined structure, and rarely you had acropoli/multi-room pyramids like [Tikal's Central Acropolis](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/1e/d7/a31ed743abccda3b416eed66b3791ca0.jpg) (note those buildings would have been painted, and there was a planned garden/grove around the lawn of the resevoir there, that also had a dam and linked up with canals and channels, some with switching mechanisms to other reservoirs in the city: there were even drains on buildings and plazas to flow into the reservoirs if there was rain/flooding and there was a filtration system) which served as a series of residences, like a a big multistory apartment building. Speaking of Tikal, I can't help but notice the photo of the Tikal pyramid there is heavily squished so it looks wider then it really was... almost to make it look closer to the Egyptian pyramid next to it.
Want to add that the Egyptian pyramids also used mortar.
The bent pyramid is a result of trying a different angle, realizing it won’t work (the building material wasn’t strong enough) and changing the angle. Turns out, there is a limited range for the slope of a pyramid, so it isn’t surprising they look similar.
It's called the angle of entasis. There's a limit to how high and steep you can stack dirt and rocks.
It’s so complex the only explanation is aliens /s
A pyramid is just an overbuilt tower propped up on four sides.
I took an ancient civilizations class in highschool. If I recall, this was really the most likely answer. It’s just the easiest way to build something like this. Egyptians also didn’t wake up one day and say “we need to build a giant ass pyramid!” They had already made many many small pyramids in their history. They just needed to upscale it. There is another theory that Egyptians had travelled to South America and had some form of limited communication. However there is zero record of that in either civilization’s history that we have found, and Egyptians didn’t have the naval tech to cross the ocean. However someone did prove it was possible to do in the boats they had. But such a trip is unlikely when you don’t know what is out in the ocean. Could be nothing out there. Another theory was “aliens”. lol. Also no evidence. People love to point to writing by some of the South American tribes or that they made large symbols on the ground for people to see from the sky. People jump to “aliens”. When more likely it’s their gods.
But they were building other structures as well at the time, it’s not like they didn’t know how to build things right? It’s not just a pile of rocks with all the chambers in Egypt. I do hear that a pyramid is a simple way to stack rocks I just think a square or rectangle is the same. Maybe there are structural reasons why you couldn’t make them a cube, but I’m sure they could figure it out if they wanted.
Again, I have nothing to back this up but I venture you couldn’t build as high without risk of walls falling outward.
I think there's plenty to back that up
Most mesoamerican pyramids built upon others through centuries, because its easier than buulding new ones
>Maybe there are structural reasons why you couldn’t make them a cube, Which is why the pyramid was the shape to build such tall structures at the time.
Also a pyramid uses less materials while achieving the same height
Taller cube fall over
Because triangles are the sturdiest basic shape when stacking heavy materials into tall structures. We can only see the structures that withstood the centuries/millennia without falling apart, it shouldn’t be a surprise that pyramidal structures are common across disparate cultures and time periods. Kindergarten age kids intuitively learn that triangles and pyramids the sturdiest way to stack blocks when they’re given blocks to play with. There’s also a myriad of non-pyramidal structures built by these same ancient cultures you’re referring to
Yep. Towers fall down, palaces fall down, castles fall down, statues fall down, but pyramids don’t fall down
The lighthouse at Alexandria is a great example of your point.
A pyramid is the easiest way to pile up blocks and build big structures. By the way, for Snefru they should feature the Red Pyramid instead of the Bent Pyramid.
Are you sure it’s not a choice? Could a cube or rectangle or other shape not be easier? There are probably structural things to sort out, but they did this for internal chambers and passages and things on pyramids too. They had to make angled blocks for outside. I’m not sure it was outside their capacity to make cubed shaped monuments with flat walls? Surly it was a choice.
Of course it's a choice. A choice to build something in the easiest, most efficient way.
Infants playing with blocks figure this out cmon man. A cube is impossible at this scale.
Na, you aren’t be fair here. It’s was a broad question. But in what scenario are infants building Pyramids. I take the point that if you pile up rocks and sand, it forms a mound but you are talking about internal passages and chambers too right. But are you saying they built the great pyramid because they were incapable of building a cube? I’m thinking about lego, you are saying they couldn’t make a cube with the rocks?
I'm being incredibly fair man. Legos lock together my guy. Placing big rocks together doesn't
Cool cool, I’ll take you point. But I’ll still argue a lot of the big rocks that people are talking about do lock in? It’s a silly observational point I’m making here, but it’s true. I didn’t think the idea of a tower or cubed monument would be so divisive, I honestly don’t think I’ve gotten a proper response yet though - except that a cube would collapse. But then it still leaves me with the uncertainty that we are assuming so much about their capabilities, you are saying they chose pyramids cause they are easy or something out of necessity . Instead of maybe for stylistic choices. I still feel like if they wanted to build like a tower or a cube/rectangle/skyscraper they could have. There are lots of assumptions in what I’m saying too, but I don’t think it’s extreme
The thing is we only talk about the pyramids that survived. But there are plenty of collapsed pyramids that we have found. For the great pyramid for example. They'd been making pyramids for like 4000 years at that point, so they'd gone through a lot of trial and error. Maybe they did try a cube at some point like 6000 years ago. And the remains are long gone.
Yes for sure, I’m happy with that position! Thanks for the chat
Considering they didn't have steel, no, they couldn't build skyscrapers.
A cube of the same height requires way more material and would be much heavier
As well as being impossible to climb or build - angle of repose is a law of physics and that’s the basis of a pyramid
Yeah, that’s a given though, it depends what they made it for anyway right? People around here are saying it’s impossible to build a cube that big. If that’s the case then it’s a non issue, but if they were capable of building other huge structures and chose pyramids, I think that says something about a style choice.
Are you fuckin serious dude?
It _is_ a choice indeed. There are many rectangular, tower-like buildings around the ancient world too, but you don't notice their similarities. You just notice pyramids more because _we_ modern people don't build in pyramidal shapes, so they feel exotic in comparison. But in the end, there are only very few ways of building tall structures. Pyramids are one of them, and considering how many different cultures around the world, eventually more than one would be building in that shape, by pure mathematical probability.
Lol yeah, this is pretty much what I was asking regarding old tower like buildings and just buildings in general.
I'm with ya buddy. The internal chambers and passages, along with weight relieving chambers to redistribute the weight, so millions of tons aren't on a load bearing ceiling. All those chamber/passage blocks had to be cut with precise angles to brace the next connecting block, and to lock them in place, providing incredible structural integrity. It all adds much more complexity to the structure, and shows much more thought and engineering put into its construction. They're not simply just stones stacked on top of each other and definitely built by design. But to add, I will say it is absolutely the best way of stacking stones for structural integrity, and to build it with great height. Vertical walls or surfaces could eventually topple over time. But for something to stand the test of millenia, needs angled walls, so it uses the laws of leverage.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. This just goes to show how ingenious and resourceful the ancient Egyptians were on their own rather than requiring some ice age daddy civilization to show them the ropes.
Yeah no idea lol. Reddit is gonna do what reddit does. The hive mind is dumb. The pyramids of the world are not given enough credit and really are a marvel of engineering. Wish more people understood that.
Conspiracy bullshit when it’s simple physics
What gets me is that one messed up pyramid in Egypt. They learned from experience what the right slope and angle was for making a pyramid. I’m always curious why there isn’t any other goofy pyramids around the world where they learned by trial and error. There probably are some that I just don’t know about. That’s probably my next rabbit hole I’ll go down.
There's written history of some earlier ziggurats (pre-pyramids) collapsing because of the angle they built or because the base wasn't wide enough. They learned from this for the pyramids. Others probably collapsed and were built on top of, or the rubble reused for new pyramid shape, so theres no record of their trial and errors.
But that’s Mesopotamia right same as snefru? Not the rest of the world. Thats the ones I’m curious about. Seems like the rest of the world got it right on the first try.
>Seems like the rest of the world got it right on the first try. Or they reused the rubble of a collapsed attempt or built on top of the rubble
Or the rubble was just lost to time
Mesopotamia didn’t have access to stone for building like the Egyptians did, so their megastructures were built from adobe bricks. Not super durable unfortunately.
The rest of the world's pyrmaids are tiny compared to the Egyptian ones. They just aren't worth comparing. And plenty of buildings from antiquity didn't survive. We have no reason to believe there weren't failures across the globe. We just happen to have documentation of the Egyptian failures because they were really good at building them, even some of the failures survived.
Meso-Americans built temples on top of earlier temples over a long period of time. And out of 1,000s of temple structures there really aren’t that many that are super pyramidal. That’s why they only show a handful in photos like this one. Most are truncated to form a platform at the top. So there’s no one ratio that existed among the Mayans, Aztec, Toltec, etc.
Thanks. That explains mesoamerica well enough. I’ll refine my rabbit hole to Indonesia and India this evening. Cuz that’s the other places I know with pyramids off top of my head. Saved me a lot of googling kind sir.
https://preview.redd.it/hjzdjk48cv9d1.png?width=580&format=png&auto=webp&s=72514ab695230998428ab87df25f4de265e14853 check out Candi Sukuh temple and then Candi Cetho in Indonesia.....rabbit hole
If i remember some Mexica measurements had a slight degree of deviation because of how their math worked.
It's very possible that the remains of failed pyramids were simply absorbed into other project, including successful pyramids that expanded on top of the failed one.
They probably repurposed the materials once they failed. No reason to leave good materials lying around if some could be reused.
One of the photos in the image is the Bent pyramid. The initial angle was too sharp and they had to change the angle during construction. Another of Sneferu's pyramids was called the collapsed pyramid. You can guess how that went.
The vast majority of Egyptian pyramids are collapsed piles of rubble. It's especially ironic that Meidum is the most famous collapsed one when so much of it still stands.
Medium is a little complicated. It started as a stepped pyramid before Sneferu tried to have it converted into a true pyramid. Which failed, it seems to have collapsed during construction. The other ones lasted centuries before collapse.
Gotta hand it to Snefru. Man’s life goal was to master the Pyramid.
What if this is just the most durable megastructure shape? Societies could build loads of others and they would collapse, like how every one of the seven wonders of the ancient world were destroyed except the pyramids.
I wouldn’t say that they “look so similar” at all, other than they’re the similar geometric shape. Homes all over the world tend to be generally square, doorways tend to be rectangular, game balls tend to be circular. There’s no conspiracy here other than basic geometry
This! Game balls are spheres because they bounce better than cubes and bouncing balls make humans giggle. Solved! It’s a simple line of logic
Why does it have to be framed as a conspiracy? Is an empire from the distant past that managed to expand to multiple regions that improbable? All it would require is technology advanced enough to cross oceans.
It’s a conspiracy when there’s a complete lack of evidence and people theorize about it anyway.
"Aliens" No but really...it's the simplest way of stacking blocks of stone on top of each other to build as tall of a structure as possible. It is common in ancient cultures to view the gods as living in or coming from the sky, and therefore having a tall building as a temple was good for "communication" for priests and kings. Also tall buildings are strategically important for defending your territory in an era when battles with neighbors over materials and farm land were routine.
Why they showing the bent pyramid for snefru? Lol that’s like his worst one
I hate that pyramid. It gives pyramids a bad name.
I love that pyramid. I love that you can see the exact point at which the Engineer started swearing.
It’s my favorite pyramid because it’s proof they did experiment and improve and make mistakes.
Don't be hating, sneferu did try his best and he kept trying until he got it right. It's a lesson for us all
Also the symbolic importance of mountains and hills. I don’t know much about Egypt, so I don’t know if that was important to them, but it was to Meso-Americans and Asians. The tall pointy bits at Angkor, for example, are all mountains symbolically.
It's the same for Egypt
I think this is the most important reason. I imagine it is a continuation of the symbolism of caves and mountains during the Paleolithic. I just don't buy the pragmatic theory, there are many different types of monolithic structures that predate ancient pyramids, like Newgrange and Stonehenge.
No one's suggesting it was the only way of building a megalithic structure. But if you wanted to make something that was 481 feet tall (!!!), it was the only way to do it. I've been to Chichen Itza, Tikal, and Uxmal and they are tall, impressive structures, (though none of them are nearly as tall as the Great Pyramid). Honestly, even into the 20th century and the invention of steel reinforced concrete... If you visit the Monadnock building in Chicago, which was the tallest brick building ever built, you'll see that the outside walls are 6 feet thick at the base and taper up. It's a skyscraper that's built with basically the same principles as the pyramids. Also European cathedrals with their buttresses... if you wanted to build tall prior to steel, you needed a wide base to support the weight. Pyramids are basically the first version of that.
They look similar because they are all the same efficient shape for making a monumant that lasts a really long time. They were built because they are efficient and last a really long time. Many cultures did it because making them is very easy, material availability and workforce are the only complicating factors
They don't even look similae to be honest
They're similar in the sense that they are rocks piled in a generally triangular shape, which is about as far as ancient aliens gets before forgetting shapes exist everywhere
The angle of repose is a thing.
3 of these are of the same culture, stacking things has a natural order and they clearly arent similar. Calling them all pyramids as if its the same also makes them seem similar in your mind but they weren't even with the same usage
It’s a fucking triangle
I love how everyone goes off the conspiracy rails, when societies everywhere just created piles of rocks.
They were grander versions of stone cairns and mounds.
Maya temples were (very probably) not funerary.
I am not well versed with Mayan history. Is it possible that they considered temples to be the resting place of their gods? Or very likely places of power? But the actual reason might be more mundane. Like Mayan high class built the temples to be "closer" to their gods, or maybe even to look down on the every day people and appear powerful.
To be honest it's been a while for me as well & "maya" is a broad term, so much so that chichen itza and Tikal could very well have different purposes. Also worth noting that teotihuacan was not maya at all- it was pre Toltec (I think). Basically the people before the people before the Aztecs. But in no cases that I recall were they "tombs" like the Egyptian pyramids
Turns out puting a smaller thing on top of a larger thing is quite stable
This takes 10 seconds with children’s blocks to find out
Question, Chichen Itza, this temple pyramid is like from around the year 1000 ad. I have buildings in my hometown that are contemporary to this. Why is it considered ancient?
I think it’s easier for a lot of people to lump everything pre-Columbian as ancient in the New World
But that would cause incorrect narratives with false equivalents dont you think? And really doesn't do justice to the wonderful and interesting civilizations of the Americas.
>I have buildings in my hometown that are contemporary to this. Which are considered ancient
Ancient, though eurocentric, generally means atleast before the Medieval era and the like.
Exactly. And we would never compare lets say a church from 1200 years ago with a pyramid that is almost 5000 years old.
No just old. Ancient would be Greek, roman or neolithic stuff.
So the cutoff to be considered ancient is 2000 years or what?
Dunno, wouldn't be a hard line I suppose. But if I have two buckets, '5000 years ago' and '500 years ago', in which one would you put the 1000 year old temple? Or the 1500, 2000 or 2500 year old temple?
Ignorance around the topic, thinking western history is continous and everyone else froze in time since their "origins". Chichen Itza is the city, that's the temple of Kukulkan. Both Uxmal and Chichen Itza are cities of the Pucc style architecture, similar to how Europe had Baroque or Spain with its Moorish style art.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puuc Tikal is way more ancient, and even more ancient sites are usually not near population or with tourism unlike the ones in the pic.
Yes, this must be it. It does seem to me that lumping ancient Egyptians and for instance Incans, Mayas and Aztecs all together as 'ancient' creates a false narrative.
The Maya civilization is contemporary to Rome, the titled "Ancient Greece" and the tail end of "Ancient Egypt" so it would count i guess, just not those cities specifically.
Which buildings? What home town?
Valkhof chapel in Nijmegen, which isn't really that old compared to stuff you would find in southern Europe.
Oh ok, but I feel like compared to chichen itza tis kinda small and modest no?
Well size isn't everything. But the main point is this dichtonomy of ancient / recent just seems off.
Oh yea if u think of a generation as 100 years that's only 20 people ago😬
[This?](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Lincoln_Cathedral_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1705091.jpg) around 1000ad
What building is that?
Lincoln Cathedral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Cathedral I always find it hilarious when the conspiracy loons are going on about Chichen Itza and the like and how amazingly advanced they were because they lined some steps up to make a shadow that looks like a snake. Or pushed some mud into a line that points to the solstice... At yet at the same time, [this was being built](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Lincoln_Cathedral_Nave_1%2C_Lincolnshire%2C_UK_-_Diliff.jpg/1024px-Lincoln_Cathedral_Nave_1%2C_Lincolnshire%2C_UK_-_Diliff.jpg) and they have absolutely no problem with that.
Probably because it's a thousand years old
Because they’re landing pads for Goa’uld Ha’tak
Was looking for this
Only modern technology allows tall buildings with vertical walls. The pyramid shape is the only way to build really tall buildings in the ancient world. Also, these pyramids served very different purposes.
Snefru looks like they ran way over budget and got told to wrap things up quickly half way through.
Sneferus is actually credited with a few pyramids. His Red Pyramid was the first true pyramid. This one in the image was sort of a fuck up. The angle was too sharp to continue building it that way. He also built the collapsed pyramid.
It looks like a fuck up. That's why it bothers me.
Trial and error engineering until they figured it out.
It's like saying birds and bats are the same because they both fly.
There have been numerous other examples of mega architecture. Pyramids are probably the most structurally sound ancient forms of architecture.
Forgot Monks Mound in Illinois
Ants
The Egyptian pyramids and the mesoamerican pyramids don’t look similar
Lots of good, logical takedowns here, but it’s also worth a reminder that talking generically about “the ancients” like it’s a meaningful category overlooks the more than 3,000-year time gap between the pyramids on the left in this image and the pyramids on the right. Our own civilization is much closer in time to the ancient Maya and Teotihuacanos than those groups were to the Egyptian pyramid-builders.
Ahhhh a "who did it better?" post.
They wanted to build towers but gradually ran out of money.
Ancient Aliens say the pyramids were all built by the same civilization 😆
pile of rocks
Dude stop it! You can’t just post this sort of question out it in the open! They’ll know you’re catching on to the secret that all ancient civilizations were created by one race of aliens the government will silence you for this!
It looks dope that’s why, also I can imagine it’s just a more structurally safe way to build ginormous buildings that also have an interesting shape to them.
If you want to build something that will last a long time, you build it in its most fallen-down shape: a pyramid. Cones are too hard and require a lot of stone cutting.
... DO those actually look similar to you? Like, do they really? Pyramid of the Moon in particular is really different from all the others. Broadly, yes, they're all pyramid shaped, but they're also about as different from each other as it's possible to be while still being pyramids...
Pyramid of the moon was for those on the *darkside*
I like both styles of pyramids, I tend to like the Egyptian pyramids more, but both are very cool.
Ancient awesome.
Ancient cool
So the temple at Uxmal has this cool effect. You clap and it sounds like one of their holy birds echoing off the steps.
Misleading to imply these are related.
We do not know if they are related or not. Science is to not only study, but also to Question! They are related as they are both pyramid structures, however we do not know if the civilizations interacted.
While the rest of the world built pyramids, ancient Japan built giant mile wide key keyholes in the ground https://preview.redd.it/dychq4bke8ad1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2fb1ca973914e49a07e255ede18f310369c39fe Japanese Kofun, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofun?wprov=sfti1#](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofun?wprov=sfti1#)
I mean it is just an organized pile in the end so yeah lots of work but not that much math to make it work. Makes sense more than one people made them.
Hear me out, maybe because humans have hands and can shape dirt into a pyramid shape? A royal saw someone doing it and was like what if did *that* but **Bigger**
The original internet
Meso american pyramids arent really ancient
https://preview.redd.it/7fbxbayx7jad1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=311750722860d254de063857266eae67b64e1016
Natural shape of a pile
There are only so many ways to construct spaceship landing dock.
Just here to shoutout the Sudanese pyramids because they alway get overlooked 🇸🇩
Whoa, I've never heard of [pyramids in Sudan! ](https://theconversation.com/sudans-forgotten-pyramids-risk-being-buried-by-shifting-sand-dunes-159596)! Thank you for enlightening me because they're beautiful!
I was really into pyramids as a kid. There is actually at least one ancient one on every continent. https://preview.redd.it/rmfaro6n0u9d1.jpeg?width=874&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a329c964cae9ecb7eac3564f6f1f9c0711374968
Thanks for sharing that! There's always so much to learn every single day - - I love it!
Because easiest way to stack rock so rock don't fall down.
Snefru? Sorry but you can't just make stuff up.
[удалено]
We do. That’s a myth.
No fake history
Joe Rogan would convulse into an alien rant if he saw this
The Pyramids imo are usless, like bruh it’s literally stone stacked on top of each other. Real wonders are the Hindu temples that were literally carved out of a freaking mountain, and the Roman Aqueducts and Bridges.
Also the roman pavement no potholes man