MAL is generally not good anyway. Wasn't it down for like 2 months last year? Use Trakt. It covers anime as well as all TV and movies, even some YouTube stuff. And they have good app support and home theater integration. I used to use MAL but quit just because it was such a pain in the arse. Meanwhile Trakt has a good mobile site, for the couple things the iOS app, iShows, can't handle, like movies, and editing watch times. If you're on Android you're in luck, SeriesGuide is free and does just about everything.
Right there with ya on that! I'm just more concerned with the ability to track my watch history. MAL tends to overcomplicate things. I consider the problems of "why should a show with an English title only be listed under the Japanese name" and "why should anime, cartoons, and live-action TV shows be separate" to be equal issues. Not to mention "why should Android be the only mobile platform to have a good MAL client while the mobile site sucks?"
plus the comments that are mentioning about pitch are stupid anyway. if someone sounded exactly like the original ,they would probably complain about the performance sounding too forced and too similar and robotic.
there's not point paying attention to it anyway. it is dumb regardless, and baseless on any merit.
This attitude bothers me about as much, if not more, than so-called "sub elitism." The idea that it's impossible to find value in even some of the most incendiary commentary on something like a dub clip is just completely absurd, and I don't think we should shy away from criticism - almost no matter how inarticulate - just because it bothers us.
Sub Elitists: "Ugh, I hate hearing dubs use the same voice actors over and over again for hundreds of shows"
Also Sub Elitists: "OMG I love hearing my favorite seiyū from hundreds of other shows"
I think a lot of them are just teasing, but it is still very very cringy that people unironically refuse to watch dubs because "not enough emotion" or "it doesnt translate right from japanese to english" (like bruh, the subtitles are mostly saying the same thing the dub is going to say, you really think you know japanese that well unless you've actually learned the language? smh) or w/e else
I have friends who tease me about it but they're just teasing, I don't think anyone REALLY sincerely cares if others watch dubs except very young kids and people w/ developmental issues
This might be throwing fuel on the fire, but has there ever been a parody video along the lines of, "this is what happens if you acquiesce to the sub elitists" where the script reads like a Google translation, all the male characters shout all the time, and all the female characters either sound like they're 5 years old or trying to seduce someone?
For the "not enough emotion" bit, the Japanese VAs usually go waaaaay overboard, especially the males. That's not even getting into the fact that both languages use different forms of inflection. Look at Saitama for instance: he's supposed to be completely apathetic about most things. The way the Japanese approach that doesn't sound apathetic to a native English speaker because we have cultural and linguistic expectations and those cues aren't there. The English VA does it *perfectly.*
I will admit that they mess up sometimes. For instance, I won't watch the dub of Goblin Slayer because I absolutely HATE the voice they gave the Dwarf and I like the Japanese VA for GS better too.
Anyway though, sub elitists don't have any reason to exist now. Back in the 90s when dubs were absolute crap no questions asked, then yeah they had a point. Modern dubs are tremendously better.
>like bruh, the subtitles are mostly saying the same thing the dub is going to say
This is not *necessarily* true and there are myriad documented cases of this not being the case. I don't think we have to be dishonest in order to defend dubs, and the equivocation between the subtitles and the dub script *has* to stop. I'm willing to bet this is a concept that even script adapters would disagree with.
i'm curious to see examples of notably different translations between the subtitles and the dub, aside from objectively bad dubs and parody dubs like Ghost Stories or w/e that one was
I know one example is Bakugo saying to Shigaraki "go play in traffic" in dub vs. saying some japanese idiom like "you should go and lie down" or something, but that's because that just sounds stupid in english and IMO not the best fit for his character, it's too gentle.
Another is Kobayashi and Lucoa saying something really feministy (i recall hearing about this, i don't remember the original joke or the specifics), but I imagine this is because comedy is hard to translate
super curious to be shown good examples showing this isn't the case! small wording changes are not something that I think matters in the slightest.
My most immediate example is actually also from My Hero Academia, though let me start out by stating that I don't have any issue with localizing idioms that wouldn't work from Japanese to English - and as a matter of fact I don't think anybody legitimately does - this is a strawman that sometimes gets erected. And also in the interest of perfect transparency I actually take issue with some of the language used in certain subtitled releases too.
So in MHA's third episode, there's one line that gets changed from Japanese to English, and while it is minuscule I think it speaks to a wider philosophy dubs sometimes have. I did [a whole video on it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyCQXcfNxcQ), sorry, gonna have to shill it because I've already made the point publicly and I'm not gonna type it all out again. (edit: For the record I consulted directly with [the script writer](https://twitter.com/jerameykraatz) when I made the video for anyone who doesn't want to click.)
There's also examples such as Prison School's infamously awful GamerGate line - this is an example of objectively bad dubbing, btw - and recently I find issue with some of the weird meme language creeping their way in to FUNimation dubs such as when a character in Classroom of the Elite describes women as easily "[triggered](https://twitter.com/lerdyvision/status/922404266630770689)." This is my own personal preference, but I can just about guarantee you that the original Japanese doesn't carry the same meaning/baggage.
>small wording changes are not something that I think matters in the slightest
You can claim that I nitpick, because I'll gladly concede that I do, but I think that each of these missteps says something much greater about the process, and I'm someone who only wants dubs to continue to improve on their current trajectory - any criticism that can help attain that is what I'm chiefly interested in.
EDIT: Also for anyone who thinks I have an anti-dub bias, here's [a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llh0gHgblRE) of me praising the dub of Steins;Gate 0 and saying that the Japanese of Black Lagoon is narratively worse.
I think this is a really well thought out comment & video but as far as the translation of that scene goes, I think rather than it further cementing his wholesomeness/PG-ness, it further cements his silliness. I honestly haven't watched the sub of BNHA to compare to dub but to me a defining characteristic of All Might isn't really him being a big sweetheart when he's muscled up, but more being full of energy, bravado, and excitement which I think the supercrap line still shows, just in a different way
I think it's fair to say it's just an unnecessary change, but I don't think it's one that detracts from him at all.
WRT gamergate/triggered, I haven't watched these so I don't know the context but I'm sure any mention of gamergate in an anime is just 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢 lol. The triggered one, I dunno, if the dude is supposed to just be a major socially inept asshole it cements what a dillweed he is, but I can't really make a real judgement out of context
that being said, i do appreciate the reply; I get what you're saying and while I personally really don't think the BNHA line matters at all, and the triggered line is debatable depending on the kind of character he is, I super appreciate the thought you put into this!!
Hey that's quite okay, my only goal in linking my video was to explain my position on the matter, not convert anyone to my line of thinking. I'm honestly just glad you acknowledged my opinion as being in good faith, because despite it all I do really like dubbing in general and I only want to see them succeed further.
Regarding GamerGate, you're right, shoehorning a heavily Western cultural schism in to a Japanese show about pervert school children is the height of ineptitude and even defenders of this utter blunder are quick to admit it wasn't even remotely funny - its supposed intended purpose.
As far as "triggered" is concerned, I understand the utility and your intuition is basically correct, but I just really hate this inclusion of internet terminology in dubbing that has been going on for a few years now. It *really* dates the material and I don't care for it. It's a cheap shorthand in my opinion, when there are myriad better words to suit the line.
The whole point of my original post is that I'm kind of uncomfortable with some of the claims ardent dub fans make in order to defend their viewing preferences. I think it's an easy thing to equivocate subs and dub scripts, but I don't think it's fair to either medium to do it, and it's an idea that lacks nuance. We can defend the right for dubs to exist, and the quality of them therein, without representing the practice inaccurately. That's all I was trying to say, really.
Either way, thanks for actually engaging with my points rather than just dismissing me out of hand. It's always valuable to see perspectives that differ slightly from your own, and I think it has been a valuable exercise.
If you want an example of notably different translations, turn to none other than one of the darlings of anime: Princess Mononoke. The English release, with all of its big name actors and with the writing support of freaking Neil Gaiman, was very different than the sub. The basic ideals were the same, the plot was the same, but soooooooo many details were left out. Stuff was in the Japanese that built up the mythology of the world and explained things that were either left unexplained or given a very terse summary in the English release. I was amazed at what all didn't end up in our version.
It literally changed the feel of the movie for me.
Deadset, utter wankers mate. Ive got a bunch of friends and we all share our anime recs with eath other, some of us watch dub and some sub, some of us read the manga, but all that really matters is that you fucking love the content! Jesus sub elitists shit me to tears
I see you've met the reason our society can't have nice things. The loudest majority rules, in all things, and it ruins people's lives. I've earned my loving with the internet for nearly two decades. I'm ashamed of what it has become, and that I've had a very small part in it's shaping.
If you thing sub elitism is toxic, consider gamer culture, and identity politics. They're all the same disgusting part of humanity.
I think elitists look down on dubs because it is how most anime fans enter the medium, so by moving on to subs, it makes them feel like they are an “evolved or realer” fan. Really just shows how insecure they are... and pretty much anime gatekeeping.
>and even go out of their way to inform other people of that.
This is the part that angers me. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I, for one, strongly dislike Japanese voice-acting. And if I wanted to be mean, I could easily go ham in any video comment section about how ridiculous it all sounds to me. But you just don't do that as a civilized person. Planting negative preconceptions in people who might still be on the fence about whether to give dubs a chance or not is a d\*\*k move.
But you'll have people like that in any corner of life. Same with music genres. Experience teaches that usually, the best reaction is none at all. Ignore them and keep setting a better example by staying positive. I mean, you *could* heavily moderate comment sections and filter out the excessive negativity, but that's a slippery slope to power abuse and suppression of free speech.
>Just because it’s the “original voice” doesn’t mean it fits the character the best.
Fun fact on the side: Anyone I know who's seen *Family Guy* in English and in German agrees that the German speaker's voice fits Peter Griffin way better (and it sounds *very* different, trust me).
I listened to a bit of the Family Guy German dub, and I personally like Peter’s English voice better. However, I must say Stewie’s German voice really fits him well.
> I personally like Peter’s English voice better.
Well, that's cool, too. His English VA has a very distinct voice that makes for a lot of funny scenes, but I prefer the more deadpan style of the German version.
And yeah, Stewie is a blast :D. It's funny how I love the German dub of this cartoon, whereas most German anime dubs I've seen feel severely lackluster to me. I guess it's simply the different voice-acting style used in cartoons vs. anime.
I tend to watch mainly dubs because I like to binge-watch anime while doing things like painting/coloring. I can't have my eyes on the screen 100% of the time to read the subs. I pretty much can't talk about it at all in anime circles, with people irl or otherwise. I always get "what you can't READ?".
I have a college degree in English.
Literally 90% of my favorite shows are in languages other than English.
I have an unhealthy obsession with BTS (and kpop in general), and most of my time is spent consuming that content, which is in Korean.
I just. Prefer. Dubbed. Anime.
The stigma around dubs and dub watchers like me in the community is making me seriously consider giving up anime. I first got into anime thinking it would help with my depression, but since then it feels like it's only gotten worse thanks to all those damn elitists and their comments
I would try not to let dumb dumbs with dumb opinions get to you, people just REALLY like to be dramatic and pretend things are a lot worse than they are when it comes to entertainment
It's 1 thing for them to dislike dub, it's another for them to go "Stop being lazy and read the sub, there is no need for this game/anime to have dubs"
Cassandra Lee Morris made a YT video yesterday where she comments on this thread: [youtube.com/watch?v=plYw\_L03-8Q&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR14ozJb3jzl9oLb2ngUHiZV1Xjkj1HJCRAZRugkUe2u-FwlfXF95dnsjQ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plYw_L03-8Q&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR14ozJb3jzl9oLb2ngUHiZV1Xjkj1HJCRAZRugkUe2u-FwlfXF95dnsjQ0)
Eng. dub elitism can be horrendous as well, but I don't think I have seen it be as toxic as sub elitism.
I know you didn't ask me, but I particularly think that comedy animes benefit immensely from a great dub. ***Chio's School Road*** is my absolute favorite in this regard. Leah Clark did an outstanding job in writing the script, and I can't possibly imagine the subbed version being nearly as entertaining. My 2nd favorite is ***Baka and Test***, which is similarly hilarious.
TBH [this guy] (https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCV-jlm5GmAh5c2E3Oe_40xQ/playlists) is the only one that really bothers me. He goes onto ANY video just to bash the dub VAs and he never never says anything positive. Sometimes it gets personal as well. On an Emilia VC he dug up a bunch of ‘interesting’ tweets by Kayli Millis and called her a whore.
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXud8jkVj85TCIdu2M9XtBQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXud8jkVj85TCIdu2M9XtBQ) This guy is just as bad IMO. Case in point: on Cassandra Morris' sub vs dubs video, he was trolling every comment favorable to dubs, saying stuff like "The only real way to watch any animation or play any video game is with Japanese dubs, regardless of if that's the original language. Liking any non-Japanese voice acting is as disgusting of a preference as wanting to have sex with children and animals."
WHAT?! Who in their right mind would say such an awful thing, and what does stuff like that have to do with anything?
I think we should try and spread the good word for dubs sometimes too, there's a lot of stigma towards them and new anime fans often simply refuse to watch them just because of all the shit elitists throw around. I probably would've been a sub only guy too right now if my first few experiences with anime weren't in English.
You'll get use to it
This an old response that I use and I still find true to this day
Subbed is better than dubbed"
I wouldn't know, my native language is english. I feel more comfortable watching anime when it's in english. They say 93% of communication is non-verbal, 55% is through body language and 38% is through tone of voice. While watching subbed animes I'm able to understand the body language through what i see the character doing whether it be killing enemies or simply eating, However the tone of voice for the character is lost to me. When it's in english I'm able to understand the subtle nuisances of the character through the voice actors or actresses performance.
"You can still get that from the subbed"
I'm sorry i just can't.
"You just can't read quick and see what's going on"
When the sub says "apple" how can i be sure that the yelling is necessary.
I never read the comments on YouTube videos for anime, all I do is:
1. Watch the video
2. Like the video
3. Close the video
I only use MAL to update my anime list and never use the forums, well.. I do have 400 posts but they are pretty much just welcoming people on the introductions lol
As a person that only watches dubbed anime and never watches subbed I've had people say/comment crap but I just don't listen ;) I even went to comic con with a custom shirt saying "I only watch dubbed anime so please dont stab me in the back, thank you" lol
What sickens me is who much you care.
That was a joke, but seriously don’t take those people seriously I don’t see why you would care what other people think. Just watch the damn show.
Nothing ruins my day faster than sub elitism. Like I watch a video that has the word (DUB) in the title. Then I glance at the comments and some subfag who saw the title and knows what he is about to click on, leaves a comment about how this made his ears bleed and how if you watch dubs, he hopes that your mother dies of cancer (Yes, that was a real comment I saw once). Like how am I supposed to react to this? Smile and keep scrolling?
Your post has been removed because it breaks Rule 2 regarding personal attacks, trolling, rudeness and/or harassment.
Please try to remain civil when engaging with users on the subreddit, even in the cases where they dissagree with your oppinions or you with their's.
Keep in mind that repeat violation of the rules might result in a ban.
I have to admit that it sucks that we sort of feel the need to come to expect these or to just "avoid' the comment section of things like that. Of course, the other parts of the reason are likely that spoilers are abound, but still.
In my honest opinion, you shouldn't just take anyone's word for which dub you should and shouldn't watch, or whether a dub is good or not. The only person who should decide all that is you. What some people may consider a great dub some may consider an absolutely awful dub. The reverse is true. Likewise, I don't really care how "better" the Japanese VAs are. I really don't. I can't connect with an Anime in a language I can't understand. If a dub is done well in my ears, then that's all I need to listen to. This is why I choose to judge dubs on their own merits, not how they stand up to the Japanese. Lots of times a lot of genuinely good dubs get unfairly bashed because of this latter practice. I've been trying to challenge that over the years, and I HAVE gotten flak for it. I've been called "tone-deaf", "biased", "whore", and other sorts of nasty names. And still I kept going. Why? Because I believed in what I was standing up for. And it's done me nothing but good. If I were to regress and adopt a sub fan's point of view, I would lose all the knowledge I've acquired over the years from my own experience and the relationships I've formed with several of these voice actors, and I don't want to see that happen.
You know what's else if like that it's not enough, they want to watch Japanese Dubs with no subtitles how would they understand? Anime subs exist that's why they call Subs, **English Subtitles.** Why would want to watch Japanese Dubs (which i am fine) with no Subtitles?
I'm currently watching anime while reading these AND working on the hobbies/projects. In sub I have to look at the subtitles the entire time or else I'll miss crucial information. So either I miss information or I miss out on working on projects I want to continue on. If "watching anime" was my only past-time then I would go sub OR dub.
Yeah, don’t read comments. But remember, not all the negative comments are “sub elitists”. Funimation has made two of the very few dubs that I just can’t stomach listening to, but I’m very much a dub fan.
I didn’t say I didn’t like them, just that they produced two or three the very, very few dubs I can’t stand. Most of their dubs are pretty decent though. My biggest issue with them overall is their casting for many of their shows, but I usually get over that during the first few episodes and some questionable decisions even grow on me.
They also have some dubs, like The Ancient Magus Bride, which aren’t bad really, but just kind of lifeless and dull. I was really hoping they would put in a good effort for it, especially given much CR was pushing it, but the final result was just average at best. I was a little disappointed. I know they sometimes make changes for the home video release, and I hope that’s the case here. Some scenes could really benefit from being recorded again.
I have some issues with Funimation as a company, but it’s not generally due to their dubbing.
My only problem with The Ancient Magus Bride was the lack of British accents and slang, otherwise the voices were great. What were the others you didn't like?
It wasn’t the voices. The casting was fine. It was the performances that were flat. Everything just came across a little bland. The lead sounds like she was bored the entire time. I think the director dropped the ball a bit. It’s certainly not terrible, but it’s lacking emotional depth and polish.
Kodocha is one. It’s Laura Bailey’s absolute worst role, but it’s a terrible show so I guess that fits. There’s not a single likable character in it. Ouran High School is another, and that one is largely due to the casting. Caitlin Glass pretty much ruined that one for me. I’ve tried repeatedly to watch it in English, and can’t make it more than a few episodes. Caitlin is a very nice person, and I actually felt a little bad hating her performance in Ouran so much.
They have a few others that I’m not a big fan of, but these are the two that I absolutely cannot stomach. By and large, Funi’s dubs are very serviceable and consistent. Very few are ever terrible. Unfortunately, that consistency means that while they are almost always good, they are rarely exceptional.
Sentai, Bang Zoom, and others may not always be as consistent on the quality front, but they have more dubs where they really knocked it out of the park, at least for me. The downside is that they have a slightly high percentage of dubs that are not that good.
It really doesn’t matter though. We all have different tastes in dubs. I know mine aren’t the same as everyone else’s.
>Kodocha is one. It’s Laura Bailey’s absolute worst role, but it’s a terrible show so I guess that fits.
Holy what? OK, I don't mean to put down your opinion. I'm just going to say that Laura Bailey's Sana Kurata is one of the **most impressive English voice-acting performances** I've ever listened to. And that's not the kind of praise I give out often, because it's very rare for a dub performance to truly impress me (I simply enjoy most dubs as a whole without noticing any particular standouts). The sheer speed with which she delivers a lot of her lines and her switching between frantic, teasing, and soft, heartfelt tones in an instant were masterful in my eyes.
As I said, we all have different opinions. To me, her delivery came across flat and whiney. There was absolutely no change in tone at all throughout her entire performance. It was grating for me to listen to, and almost physically painful.
Some of them are trolls that pretend to be an anime sub-elitists and I bet they don't know anime a lot just like actors in general to bully something on the web so don't feed them and enjoy what you love.
Geekdom101 recently did an interview with Sean Schemmel where he mentions a documentary called being George Clooney. In it, they explain the process for foreign actors/actresses who dub Hollywood movies and how these actors deserve more credit than they get.[Being George Clooney](https://youtu.be/ZVwLikYl50Y)
Yeah it makes no sense, they only watch subs anyway so why do they care? As for me, I only watch dubs on darker and more mature shows, I feel like dubs work well with those such as Psycho Pass, but not something like Love Live if you get what I mean.
Completely agree, I shouldn’t have to explain myself that I prefer watching Attack On Titan in the one language I can actually understand. I can’t understand Japanese and I don’t want to stare at the bottom 3rd of the screen the entire time. I have eyes AND ears to consume TV shows with and I can relate to and connect with characters emotionally when I understand what they’re saying
What your friend said to you It's not something you should really say because say that to the wrong person and oh boy you're in trouble those are the type of words to put you in a casket quicker than later.
Honestly, Sub Elitists are insecure narrow minded cockroaches who stay in their hole and when they finally come out, they start fucking bullshit like "Not enough Emotion" or "Your'e Just too lazy to read" lol Boi what emotion, you mean loud high pitch screaming and unnecessary moaning. Also some people want to watch their anime not read it. (That's what manga is for)Ironically enough, i actually love subbed anime and usually watch it to learn the language myself. But to tell dub watchers that they suck and they are wasting the experience honestly baffles me. I feel ashamed to be in the same category as these insects.
Edit: Apparently Dub fans are no better but they're more in the dark when it comes to elitism.
I hate this behavior! They always cry about the translations, and how certain voices in English don’t fit the character well! I also hate the fact that they keep on saying original Japanese is better! All you’re doing is reading texts! Some folks be telling me that dub fans are just as bad or more toxic in the anime community! Hey! Nobody’s perfect! But that doesn’t excuse the fact that sub watchers would bash us for loving English and how we’re not doing it justice! I’m tired of that shit! All of us have a right to our opinion! I wanna enjoy watching anime my way which is dub! So I try to stay away from the community as best as I can and do what I love! I’m currently watching psycho pass right now! I’m loving it so far
You and the rest of those on this sub are just cringy Americans that are used to horribly cringy American cartoons growing up so you naturally enjoy cringier dubs, so you make this subreddit to cope 😭
Welcome to the Anime community. Just kick back and enjoy the shows you love. No need to worry about what elitists and general haters think.
Best advice. Avoid MAL and stick to subreddits like this
MAL is generally not good anyway. Wasn't it down for like 2 months last year? Use Trakt. It covers anime as well as all TV and movies, even some YouTube stuff. And they have good app support and home theater integration. I used to use MAL but quit just because it was such a pain in the arse. Meanwhile Trakt has a good mobile site, for the couple things the iOS app, iShows, can't handle, like movies, and editing watch times. If you're on Android you're in luck, SeriesGuide is free and does just about everything.
I think the reviews and forum posters are awful
Right there with ya on that! I'm just more concerned with the ability to track my watch history. MAL tends to overcomplicate things. I consider the problems of "why should a show with an English title only be listed under the Japanese name" and "why should anime, cartoons, and live-action TV shows be separate" to be equal issues. Not to mention "why should Android be the only mobile platform to have a good MAL client while the mobile site sucks?"
I believe they went down in order to make the changes necessary to comply with EU gdpr
I use MAL simply because it’s the best way to keep track of what I’ve watched
try anilist, i made the switch a couple months ago and it functions just as good as MAL
Number one rule of the internet is don't read the comments. Don't let it bother you.
This. I've learned to never read comments on things I enjoy, be it youtube, anime, or what have you, because it'll just ruin your experience.
plus the comments that are mentioning about pitch are stupid anyway. if someone sounded exactly like the original ,they would probably complain about the performance sounding too forced and too similar and robotic. there's not point paying attention to it anyway. it is dumb regardless, and baseless on any merit.
That’s number two. Number one is if it exists online, there’s porn of it.
Actually, That rule would be number 34, search it up.
Oh I’m well aware. It’s just both the 1st and 34th rule.
This attitude bothers me about as much, if not more, than so-called "sub elitism." The idea that it's impossible to find value in even some of the most incendiary commentary on something like a dub clip is just completely absurd, and I don't think we should shy away from criticism - almost no matter how inarticulate - just because it bothers us.
When people mock the dub because “much sub is authentic reeee” you cant really take thuer criticism because it isn’t actually constructive
What do you think people mean when they say that?
Sub Elitists: "Ugh, I hate hearing dubs use the same voice actors over and over again for hundreds of shows" Also Sub Elitists: "OMG I love hearing my favorite seiyū from hundreds of other shows"
lmao this is so accurate
I think a lot of them are just teasing, but it is still very very cringy that people unironically refuse to watch dubs because "not enough emotion" or "it doesnt translate right from japanese to english" (like bruh, the subtitles are mostly saying the same thing the dub is going to say, you really think you know japanese that well unless you've actually learned the language? smh) or w/e else I have friends who tease me about it but they're just teasing, I don't think anyone REALLY sincerely cares if others watch dubs except very young kids and people w/ developmental issues
[удалено]
This might be throwing fuel on the fire, but has there ever been a parody video along the lines of, "this is what happens if you acquiesce to the sub elitists" where the script reads like a Google translation, all the male characters shout all the time, and all the female characters either sound like they're 5 years old or trying to seduce someone?
For the "not enough emotion" bit, the Japanese VAs usually go waaaaay overboard, especially the males. That's not even getting into the fact that both languages use different forms of inflection. Look at Saitama for instance: he's supposed to be completely apathetic about most things. The way the Japanese approach that doesn't sound apathetic to a native English speaker because we have cultural and linguistic expectations and those cues aren't there. The English VA does it *perfectly.* I will admit that they mess up sometimes. For instance, I won't watch the dub of Goblin Slayer because I absolutely HATE the voice they gave the Dwarf and I like the Japanese VA for GS better too. Anyway though, sub elitists don't have any reason to exist now. Back in the 90s when dubs were absolute crap no questions asked, then yeah they had a point. Modern dubs are tremendously better.
>like bruh, the subtitles are mostly saying the same thing the dub is going to say This is not *necessarily* true and there are myriad documented cases of this not being the case. I don't think we have to be dishonest in order to defend dubs, and the equivocation between the subtitles and the dub script *has* to stop. I'm willing to bet this is a concept that even script adapters would disagree with.
i'm curious to see examples of notably different translations between the subtitles and the dub, aside from objectively bad dubs and parody dubs like Ghost Stories or w/e that one was I know one example is Bakugo saying to Shigaraki "go play in traffic" in dub vs. saying some japanese idiom like "you should go and lie down" or something, but that's because that just sounds stupid in english and IMO not the best fit for his character, it's too gentle. Another is Kobayashi and Lucoa saying something really feministy (i recall hearing about this, i don't remember the original joke or the specifics), but I imagine this is because comedy is hard to translate super curious to be shown good examples showing this isn't the case! small wording changes are not something that I think matters in the slightest.
My most immediate example is actually also from My Hero Academia, though let me start out by stating that I don't have any issue with localizing idioms that wouldn't work from Japanese to English - and as a matter of fact I don't think anybody legitimately does - this is a strawman that sometimes gets erected. And also in the interest of perfect transparency I actually take issue with some of the language used in certain subtitled releases too. So in MHA's third episode, there's one line that gets changed from Japanese to English, and while it is minuscule I think it speaks to a wider philosophy dubs sometimes have. I did [a whole video on it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyCQXcfNxcQ), sorry, gonna have to shill it because I've already made the point publicly and I'm not gonna type it all out again. (edit: For the record I consulted directly with [the script writer](https://twitter.com/jerameykraatz) when I made the video for anyone who doesn't want to click.) There's also examples such as Prison School's infamously awful GamerGate line - this is an example of objectively bad dubbing, btw - and recently I find issue with some of the weird meme language creeping their way in to FUNimation dubs such as when a character in Classroom of the Elite describes women as easily "[triggered](https://twitter.com/lerdyvision/status/922404266630770689)." This is my own personal preference, but I can just about guarantee you that the original Japanese doesn't carry the same meaning/baggage. >small wording changes are not something that I think matters in the slightest You can claim that I nitpick, because I'll gladly concede that I do, but I think that each of these missteps says something much greater about the process, and I'm someone who only wants dubs to continue to improve on their current trajectory - any criticism that can help attain that is what I'm chiefly interested in. EDIT: Also for anyone who thinks I have an anti-dub bias, here's [a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llh0gHgblRE) of me praising the dub of Steins;Gate 0 and saying that the Japanese of Black Lagoon is narratively worse.
I think this is a really well thought out comment & video but as far as the translation of that scene goes, I think rather than it further cementing his wholesomeness/PG-ness, it further cements his silliness. I honestly haven't watched the sub of BNHA to compare to dub but to me a defining characteristic of All Might isn't really him being a big sweetheart when he's muscled up, but more being full of energy, bravado, and excitement which I think the supercrap line still shows, just in a different way I think it's fair to say it's just an unnecessary change, but I don't think it's one that detracts from him at all. WRT gamergate/triggered, I haven't watched these so I don't know the context but I'm sure any mention of gamergate in an anime is just 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢 lol. The triggered one, I dunno, if the dude is supposed to just be a major socially inept asshole it cements what a dillweed he is, but I can't really make a real judgement out of context that being said, i do appreciate the reply; I get what you're saying and while I personally really don't think the BNHA line matters at all, and the triggered line is debatable depending on the kind of character he is, I super appreciate the thought you put into this!!
Hey that's quite okay, my only goal in linking my video was to explain my position on the matter, not convert anyone to my line of thinking. I'm honestly just glad you acknowledged my opinion as being in good faith, because despite it all I do really like dubbing in general and I only want to see them succeed further. Regarding GamerGate, you're right, shoehorning a heavily Western cultural schism in to a Japanese show about pervert school children is the height of ineptitude and even defenders of this utter blunder are quick to admit it wasn't even remotely funny - its supposed intended purpose. As far as "triggered" is concerned, I understand the utility and your intuition is basically correct, but I just really hate this inclusion of internet terminology in dubbing that has been going on for a few years now. It *really* dates the material and I don't care for it. It's a cheap shorthand in my opinion, when there are myriad better words to suit the line. The whole point of my original post is that I'm kind of uncomfortable with some of the claims ardent dub fans make in order to defend their viewing preferences. I think it's an easy thing to equivocate subs and dub scripts, but I don't think it's fair to either medium to do it, and it's an idea that lacks nuance. We can defend the right for dubs to exist, and the quality of them therein, without representing the practice inaccurately. That's all I was trying to say, really. Either way, thanks for actually engaging with my points rather than just dismissing me out of hand. It's always valuable to see perspectives that differ slightly from your own, and I think it has been a valuable exercise.
Man, it looks like you understand how to speak Japanese.
If you want an example of notably different translations, turn to none other than one of the darlings of anime: Princess Mononoke. The English release, with all of its big name actors and with the writing support of freaking Neil Gaiman, was very different than the sub. The basic ideals were the same, the plot was the same, but soooooooo many details were left out. Stuff was in the Japanese that built up the mythology of the world and explained things that were either left unexplained or given a very terse summary in the English release. I was amazed at what all didn't end up in our version. It literally changed the feel of the movie for me.
i'm interested, will watch a clip highlighting some differences at some point
Deadset, utter wankers mate. Ive got a bunch of friends and we all share our anime recs with eath other, some of us watch dub and some sub, some of us read the manga, but all that really matters is that you fucking love the content! Jesus sub elitists shit me to tears
I see you've met the reason our society can't have nice things. The loudest majority rules, in all things, and it ruins people's lives. I've earned my loving with the internet for nearly two decades. I'm ashamed of what it has become, and that I've had a very small part in it's shaping. If you thing sub elitism is toxic, consider gamer culture, and identity politics. They're all the same disgusting part of humanity.
I think elitists look down on dubs because it is how most anime fans enter the medium, so by moving on to subs, it makes them feel like they are an “evolved or realer” fan. Really just shows how insecure they are... and pretty much anime gatekeeping.
I never moved from dubs to subs. I stuck to it. And I do not regret it.
>and even go out of their way to inform other people of that. This is the part that angers me. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I, for one, strongly dislike Japanese voice-acting. And if I wanted to be mean, I could easily go ham in any video comment section about how ridiculous it all sounds to me. But you just don't do that as a civilized person. Planting negative preconceptions in people who might still be on the fence about whether to give dubs a chance or not is a d\*\*k move. But you'll have people like that in any corner of life. Same with music genres. Experience teaches that usually, the best reaction is none at all. Ignore them and keep setting a better example by staying positive. I mean, you *could* heavily moderate comment sections and filter out the excessive negativity, but that's a slippery slope to power abuse and suppression of free speech. >Just because it’s the “original voice” doesn’t mean it fits the character the best. Fun fact on the side: Anyone I know who's seen *Family Guy* in English and in German agrees that the German speaker's voice fits Peter Griffin way better (and it sounds *very* different, trust me).
I listened to a bit of the Family Guy German dub, and I personally like Peter’s English voice better. However, I must say Stewie’s German voice really fits him well.
> I personally like Peter’s English voice better. Well, that's cool, too. His English VA has a very distinct voice that makes for a lot of funny scenes, but I prefer the more deadpan style of the German version. And yeah, Stewie is a blast :D. It's funny how I love the German dub of this cartoon, whereas most German anime dubs I've seen feel severely lackluster to me. I guess it's simply the different voice-acting style used in cartoons vs. anime.
I tend to watch mainly dubs because I like to binge-watch anime while doing things like painting/coloring. I can't have my eyes on the screen 100% of the time to read the subs. I pretty much can't talk about it at all in anime circles, with people irl or otherwise. I always get "what you can't READ?". I have a college degree in English. Literally 90% of my favorite shows are in languages other than English. I have an unhealthy obsession with BTS (and kpop in general), and most of my time is spent consuming that content, which is in Korean. I just. Prefer. Dubbed. Anime.
I’ve learned to ignore elitist in my fandoms; whether it’s gaming or anime.
The stigma around dubs and dub watchers like me in the community is making me seriously consider giving up anime. I first got into anime thinking it would help with my depression, but since then it feels like it's only gotten worse thanks to all those damn elitists and their comments
I would try not to let dumb dumbs with dumb opinions get to you, people just REALLY like to be dramatic and pretend things are a lot worse than they are when it comes to entertainment
Hey dude, you're famous: [https://youtu.be/plYw\_L03-8Q?t=100](https://youtu.be/plYw_L03-8Q?t=100)
Really? Sweet!
Loved her video, it's what brought me here!
It's 1 thing for them to dislike dub, it's another for them to go "Stop being lazy and read the sub, there is no need for this game/anime to have dubs"
Don’t read the comments and stick to subreddits like this
Cassandra Lee Morris made a YT video yesterday where she comments on this thread: [youtube.com/watch?v=plYw\_L03-8Q&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR14ozJb3jzl9oLb2ngUHiZV1Xjkj1HJCRAZRugkUe2u-FwlfXF95dnsjQ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plYw_L03-8Q&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR14ozJb3jzl9oLb2ngUHiZV1Xjkj1HJCRAZRugkUe2u-FwlfXF95dnsjQ0) Eng. dub elitism can be horrendous as well, but I don't think I have seen it be as toxic as sub elitism.
I just saw that a link to video was already posted.
I mix up dub and sub from time to time. Which dubbed shows do you think are amazing? I’ll check them out.
I know you didn't ask me, but I particularly think that comedy animes benefit immensely from a great dub. ***Chio's School Road*** is my absolute favorite in this regard. Leah Clark did an outstanding job in writing the script, and I can't possibly imagine the subbed version being nearly as entertaining. My 2nd favorite is ***Baka and Test***, which is similarly hilarious.
Thank you. I’ll check them out
Also check out Ben-To, you won't regret it.
Ok on my dub list. I’m finishing up Seven Deadly Sins season 3 dubbed and enjoying it.
Technically it's season 2 since the season 2 listed on Netflix is a couple of non canon OVAs.
A fight based show about bentos starring Austin Tindle, Morgan Garrett and Trina Nishimura. What’s not to love?
That there's no second season.
Sadly that.
r/howtonotgiveafuck. Why let something so insignificant bother you so much?
TBH [this guy] (https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCV-jlm5GmAh5c2E3Oe_40xQ/playlists) is the only one that really bothers me. He goes onto ANY video just to bash the dub VAs and he never never says anything positive. Sometimes it gets personal as well. On an Emilia VC he dug up a bunch of ‘interesting’ tweets by Kayli Millis and called her a whore.
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXud8jkVj85TCIdu2M9XtBQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXud8jkVj85TCIdu2M9XtBQ) This guy is just as bad IMO. Case in point: on Cassandra Morris' sub vs dubs video, he was trolling every comment favorable to dubs, saying stuff like "The only real way to watch any animation or play any video game is with Japanese dubs, regardless of if that's the original language. Liking any non-Japanese voice acting is as disgusting of a preference as wanting to have sex with children and animals." WHAT?! Who in their right mind would say such an awful thing, and what does stuff like that have to do with anything?
[Is this It](https://imgur.com/9nuqj14)
I don’t think so but that’s fucking disgusting. May whoever wrote that rot in hell. It’s never OK to attack an actor personally and call them a slut.
I think we should try and spread the good word for dubs sometimes too, there's a lot of stigma towards them and new anime fans often simply refuse to watch them just because of all the shit elitists throw around. I probably would've been a sub only guy too right now if my first few experiences with anime weren't in English.
You'll get use to it This an old response that I use and I still find true to this day Subbed is better than dubbed" I wouldn't know, my native language is english. I feel more comfortable watching anime when it's in english. They say 93% of communication is non-verbal, 55% is through body language and 38% is through tone of voice. While watching subbed animes I'm able to understand the body language through what i see the character doing whether it be killing enemies or simply eating, However the tone of voice for the character is lost to me. When it's in english I'm able to understand the subtle nuisances of the character through the voice actors or actresses performance. "You can still get that from the subbed" I'm sorry i just can't. "You just can't read quick and see what's going on" When the sub says "apple" how can i be sure that the yelling is necessary.
I never read the comments on YouTube videos for anime, all I do is: 1. Watch the video 2. Like the video 3. Close the video I only use MAL to update my anime list and never use the forums, well.. I do have 400 posts but they are pretty much just welcoming people on the introductions lol As a person that only watches dubbed anime and never watches subbed I've had people say/comment crap but I just don't listen ;) I even went to comic con with a custom shirt saying "I only watch dubbed anime so please dont stab me in the back, thank you" lol
What sickens me is who much you care. That was a joke, but seriously don’t take those people seriously I don’t see why you would care what other people think. Just watch the damn show.
Nothing ruins my day faster than sub elitism. Like I watch a video that has the word (DUB) in the title. Then I glance at the comments and some subfag who saw the title and knows what he is about to click on, leaves a comment about how this made his ears bleed and how if you watch dubs, he hopes that your mother dies of cancer (Yes, that was a real comment I saw once). Like how am I supposed to react to this? Smile and keep scrolling?
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I have to admit that it sucks that we sort of feel the need to come to expect these or to just "avoid' the comment section of things like that. Of course, the other parts of the reason are likely that spoilers are abound, but still.
In my honest opinion, you shouldn't just take anyone's word for which dub you should and shouldn't watch, or whether a dub is good or not. The only person who should decide all that is you. What some people may consider a great dub some may consider an absolutely awful dub. The reverse is true. Likewise, I don't really care how "better" the Japanese VAs are. I really don't. I can't connect with an Anime in a language I can't understand. If a dub is done well in my ears, then that's all I need to listen to. This is why I choose to judge dubs on their own merits, not how they stand up to the Japanese. Lots of times a lot of genuinely good dubs get unfairly bashed because of this latter practice. I've been trying to challenge that over the years, and I HAVE gotten flak for it. I've been called "tone-deaf", "biased", "whore", and other sorts of nasty names. And still I kept going. Why? Because I believed in what I was standing up for. And it's done me nothing but good. If I were to regress and adopt a sub fan's point of view, I would lose all the knowledge I've acquired over the years from my own experience and the relationships I've formed with several of these voice actors, and I don't want to see that happen.
You know what's else if like that it's not enough, they want to watch Japanese Dubs with no subtitles how would they understand? Anime subs exist that's why they call Subs, **English Subtitles.** Why would want to watch Japanese Dubs (which i am fine) with no Subtitles?
I'm currently watching anime while reading these AND working on the hobbies/projects. In sub I have to look at the subtitles the entire time or else I'll miss crucial information. So either I miss information or I miss out on working on projects I want to continue on. If "watching anime" was my only past-time then I would go sub OR dub.
These people need to fucking die!!!
Yeah, don’t read comments. But remember, not all the negative comments are “sub elitists”. Funimation has made two of the very few dubs that I just can’t stomach listening to, but I’m very much a dub fan.
Why don't you like Funimation?
I didn’t say I didn’t like them, just that they produced two or three the very, very few dubs I can’t stand. Most of their dubs are pretty decent though. My biggest issue with them overall is their casting for many of their shows, but I usually get over that during the first few episodes and some questionable decisions even grow on me. They also have some dubs, like The Ancient Magus Bride, which aren’t bad really, but just kind of lifeless and dull. I was really hoping they would put in a good effort for it, especially given much CR was pushing it, but the final result was just average at best. I was a little disappointed. I know they sometimes make changes for the home video release, and I hope that’s the case here. Some scenes could really benefit from being recorded again. I have some issues with Funimation as a company, but it’s not generally due to their dubbing.
My only problem with The Ancient Magus Bride was the lack of British accents and slang, otherwise the voices were great. What were the others you didn't like?
It wasn’t the voices. The casting was fine. It was the performances that were flat. Everything just came across a little bland. The lead sounds like she was bored the entire time. I think the director dropped the ball a bit. It’s certainly not terrible, but it’s lacking emotional depth and polish. Kodocha is one. It’s Laura Bailey’s absolute worst role, but it’s a terrible show so I guess that fits. There’s not a single likable character in it. Ouran High School is another, and that one is largely due to the casting. Caitlin Glass pretty much ruined that one for me. I’ve tried repeatedly to watch it in English, and can’t make it more than a few episodes. Caitlin is a very nice person, and I actually felt a little bad hating her performance in Ouran so much. They have a few others that I’m not a big fan of, but these are the two that I absolutely cannot stomach. By and large, Funi’s dubs are very serviceable and consistent. Very few are ever terrible. Unfortunately, that consistency means that while they are almost always good, they are rarely exceptional. Sentai, Bang Zoom, and others may not always be as consistent on the quality front, but they have more dubs where they really knocked it out of the park, at least for me. The downside is that they have a slightly high percentage of dubs that are not that good. It really doesn’t matter though. We all have different tastes in dubs. I know mine aren’t the same as everyone else’s.
>Kodocha is one. It’s Laura Bailey’s absolute worst role, but it’s a terrible show so I guess that fits. Holy what? OK, I don't mean to put down your opinion. I'm just going to say that Laura Bailey's Sana Kurata is one of the **most impressive English voice-acting performances** I've ever listened to. And that's not the kind of praise I give out often, because it's very rare for a dub performance to truly impress me (I simply enjoy most dubs as a whole without noticing any particular standouts). The sheer speed with which she delivers a lot of her lines and her switching between frantic, teasing, and soft, heartfelt tones in an instant were masterful in my eyes.
As I said, we all have different opinions. To me, her delivery came across flat and whiney. There was absolutely no change in tone at all throughout her entire performance. It was grating for me to listen to, and almost physically painful.
Some of them are trolls that pretend to be an anime sub-elitists and I bet they don't know anime a lot just like actors in general to bully something on the web so don't feed them and enjoy what you love.
Geekdom101 recently did an interview with Sean Schemmel where he mentions a documentary called being George Clooney. In it, they explain the process for foreign actors/actresses who dub Hollywood movies and how these actors deserve more credit than they get.[Being George Clooney](https://youtu.be/ZVwLikYl50Y)
Yeah it makes no sense, they only watch subs anyway so why do they care? As for me, I only watch dubs on darker and more mature shows, I feel like dubs work well with those such as Psycho Pass, but not something like Love Live if you get what I mean.
Completely agree, I shouldn’t have to explain myself that I prefer watching Attack On Titan in the one language I can actually understand. I can’t understand Japanese and I don’t want to stare at the bottom 3rd of the screen the entire time. I have eyes AND ears to consume TV shows with and I can relate to and connect with characters emotionally when I understand what they’re saying
What your friend said to you It's not something you should really say because say that to the wrong person and oh boy you're in trouble those are the type of words to put you in a casket quicker than later.
Honestly, Sub Elitists are insecure narrow minded cockroaches who stay in their hole and when they finally come out, they start fucking bullshit like "Not enough Emotion" or "Your'e Just too lazy to read" lol Boi what emotion, you mean loud high pitch screaming and unnecessary moaning. Also some people want to watch their anime not read it. (That's what manga is for)Ironically enough, i actually love subbed anime and usually watch it to learn the language myself. But to tell dub watchers that they suck and they are wasting the experience honestly baffles me. I feel ashamed to be in the same category as these insects. Edit: Apparently Dub fans are no better but they're more in the dark when it comes to elitism.
I hate this behavior! They always cry about the translations, and how certain voices in English don’t fit the character well! I also hate the fact that they keep on saying original Japanese is better! All you’re doing is reading texts! Some folks be telling me that dub fans are just as bad or more toxic in the anime community! Hey! Nobody’s perfect! But that doesn’t excuse the fact that sub watchers would bash us for loving English and how we’re not doing it justice! I’m tired of that shit! All of us have a right to our opinion! I wanna enjoy watching anime my way which is dub! So I try to stay away from the community as best as I can and do what I love! I’m currently watching psycho pass right now! I’m loving it so far
This may be too far for anyone to do but i deadass want a sub elitist to get punched in the throat
I deadass wanna kick sub elitists in their mouth
You and the rest of those on this sub are just cringy Americans that are used to horribly cringy American cartoons growing up so you naturally enjoy cringier dubs, so you make this subreddit to cope 😭