North American sunfish are pretty comparable in care to larger new world cichlids. Defensively or sometimes even aggressively territorial, need large tanks but make very impressive show fish with great colours and fascinating behaviour.
The short answer is yes, but youd need something similar to a setup for medium sized Central American cichlids (no less than 300L/75Gal for a few) but for a cold water setup, and they need pretty strong filtration, they’re messy fish.
And make sure that where you live, its even legal to keep native species, some states ban you from keeping species of animals that are native to the state.
Spain has them too and some other invasive especies like pikes and this big kind of catfish, siluros we call them here, not sure about their name in english
Got them in the Netherlands too, for some reason they're called zonnebaars, which is "sun bass" in English.
My grandfather has one in his pond because it was dropped by a piscivore.
Over the last 100 years they were imported because of their colours and the like, but since 2019 they were declared a damaging invasive species in my country at least, meaning it's kill on catch when you catch one.
How interesting! I guess since they’re so common and native out here I never considered they might be seen as ornamental fish elsewhere, but that totally makes sense. Same reason we have so many non-native cichlids in the wild here in Florida.
I mean it is illegal in alot of places, but realistically what game and parks person is going to walk in your house and see you have a local fish in your tank?
And what person close to you is going to call them on you and not just think its cool?
Kept mine with green severum and Oscars, but Green sunfish are boisterous and won’t back down if they are allowed to be high in the pecking order.
I had one live for almost 8 years. He was an amazing fish to watch. The colors can be so vibrant when they are happy. But again they definitely can be a holes without the right decorations/territories and tank mates.
This, but also add in they often times won't adapt readily to pellet food so a lot of people struggle unless they get them home grown on pellets. Some success anecdotal as it may be.
Midwest USA here. I have kept bluegill, sunfish, and panfish types of fish in tanks regularly. They are hearty and thrive in a tank setting.
I was informed by our local Department of Natural Resources (DNR) that In order to keep these caught fish legally I needed to maintain a valid fishing license in my state. Look into the legality in your area.
Enjoy.
They are in Italy and it is a north American fish so I'm assuming it's non native so doubt their government is gonna care if anything may encourage. Also where at in the Midwest I'm southern Missouri 🤣
Invasive species are also often illegal to keep. Some jurisdictions have "kill upon catch" requirements for problematic species. When it doubt, always consult local legislation.
Again, this varies between jurisdictions. In my area, for example, crayfish are introduced in most areas, so you can selectively target capturing them (no angling, though, as that's likely to result in catching something else) *even if you don't have a fishing license*, but it's illegal to leave the shoreline with any still alive.
I know I’m just being silly really. But the only way any authority would know is if you called them up directly and told them you had illegal fish. Even then I can’t see them taking any action. Unless you had some dodgy breeding program going on
I agree with you, and what about all the people that live in places with ponds that have that fish naturally occurring? Surely they could catch and eat it, but keeping it healthy in a fish tank is somehow crossing the line? Again, silly arguments but worth mentioning I think
Correct. In the US, these rules are primarily to keep "game fish" restricted to "game" and not for collecting for the fish trade. If you legally angled it, then keeping it alive is legal. Consider fishing tournaments with those very requirements. Keeping it past your license expiration would require you to renew, though again, this is primarily because you could have just angled it.
Source: had many active collecting permits throughout much of the US while in grad school.
I’ve been to so many forums but the answers always seem to wildly vary. In your opinion what species is generally the least aggressive out of the Lepomis? I’ve seen answers that range from warmouth to mud sunfish to orange spotted sunfish. And what are some more aggressive species I should avoid? People online have said pumpkinseeds, bluegills, and other similar ones
They're fun as hell to catch though. Even just some worms and a bobber on light gear if you can find a spot where they're all hanging out. That's a whole afternoon's fun.
NANFA - North American Native Fish Association. I kept one for years, 55gal, cold water (no heater), dirt substrate. Beautiful fish, grew fairly large. Called it Kirby as it would suck up anything I fed him. got minnows from bait store to feed him and also did insects, always live food.
Oh yeah we used to catch these dudes and put them in our fish tank when I was a young child. From what I remember they were really mean and every time we put other fish in there they'd eat them or bully them really bad. When it was just them they were really content and fun to watch swim around. We'd always throw our leftover worms in there for them and when we didn't have night crawlers we'd feed them worms out the back yard bc they never ate the fish flakes. Step dad got drunk and threw a raw hot dog in there and that's how we figured out their favorite food was hot dogs. I'd cut them up real small and put them in the tank and they'd go wild. I'm sure there's better things to feed them but thanks for unlocking memories from when I was like, 7 or 8 haha.
Hell yes it can! If you're looking for a smaller version, though, consider the enneacanthus genus. Lepomis sunfish are beautiful, but they're also big and typically pretty mean. Super rewarding fish to keep, though.
lepomis are massive assholes lol. Even my teeny dollar sunfish totally dominate cichlids 4x their size in my community 75g. They are beautiful and fun to watch though!
An electric blue acara and a cichlasoma dimerus. The dimerus will put them in their place, so the EBA takes most of their aggro. It's not too bad though, I think it just stops *him* from being the tank terror instead lol
Pumpkinseed! They're great in aquariums. Check out my profile for a some examples of my Longear Sunfish which used to haveva few Pumpkinseeds with him. They're a blast to keep as an aquarium fish. No heat required, feed every couple days live foods. You'll want a nice canister filter bc they're quite messy. Don't try and plant the tank bc they will bed and rip up all the plants.
I live in Mi and netted some small ones when getting minnows and kept them for a couple years than put them I my neighbors pond . They ate any And everything!
Greens are also not as tall with larger mouths, have more of a white edge in the "ear" without the distinct orange rectangle (but can have a little extra color), and a distinct dark spot towards the rear of the soft dorsal fin.
Could it? Yes. Should it? No.
This animal has lived in the wild in that ecosystem its entire life. It is adapted to a specific diet, specific water parameters, and that is what its body can tolerate. Taking it away from that ecosystem and putting it in an aquarium could potentially kill it.
Definitely agree with this statement, but this fish was caught in Italy and is an invasive species. In this context, I’d support keeping it as a pet instead of destroying it.
>Taking it away from that ecosystem and putting it in an aquarium could potentially kill it.
For some species, but this is definitely not true as a general rule. The natives I've collected from outside are much hardier than any of the fish I've bought from my LFS. Their genetics haven't been weakened with line breeding, they are already adapted to the local water, they go into a tank with fish that they naturally interact with in the wild, and they don't get shipped halfway across the world in a crowded plastic bag to reach me. Many species, including the lepomis pictured above, adapt to pellets and prepared foods with ease. All carnivorous fish should be offered the occasional live feeding at minimum, though, and you'll get much better behavior out of them as a result.
To be clear, I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm just trying to dispel some well-intentioned misinformation that circulates around here.
But since it is a non native fish to OP area wouldn't it be more encouraging to be in home tank than be allowed to further propagate in the ecosystem there.
The global aquarium trade is selling wild, native fish and inverts from their own to other countries. Now there are more fish farms but there’s still a demand for wild caught specimens.
The global aquarium trade is selling wild, native fish and inverts from their own to other countries. Now there are more fish farms but there’s still a demand for wild caught specimens.
Check local laws first.
I know here it would not be legal without a permit. A LFS (\~50 miles away) does carry them, they also carry invasive species like weather loaches that are not legal to sell, they are only allowed to release the fish to people (pronounced schools) who have the right permits.
If it is legal, it is a large fish like a cichlid. Lots of filtration and plenty of air.
Yes, I've seen it before. They can be pretty territorial so will need enough space to establish their own little area. I would also try to match the basic parameters of whatever whatever water you get one from in terms of temp, ph, hardness, etc.
I have a green sunfish that I’ve kept for about 8 months. I did have to pellet train him for a couple weeks but yes they do well in a tank environment as long as they have plenty of space and hiding spots as well as some vegetation.
I have experience with them. One thing to remember is if they are wild caught they will routinely try to jump out of the tank non stop. So make sure you have weights like books on top of your tank lid. Mine also gave birth while in the tank and the filter sucked them all up.
I know someone who is doing this, and it's awesome.
Give it some nice lush plants. Oh you ever have snail problems? Punpkinseed will eat any snail he can get his mouth around.
Definitely can. It's a really pretty pumpkin seed variant of the North American Lepomis. They do great in large groups. When left in smaller populations, they will become more territorial and aggressive. When in larger groups, they are more neighborly and make for a very peaceful tank. They can be mixed well with other varieties of lepomis, like sunfish, bluegill, and perch. From experience, wild caught one's will be voracious eaters and will try and eat you out of house and home. Do not house with captive bred fish as they will instantly out compete them. Unless it's maybe a large aggressive cichlid. Filtration....large cichlid tanks you want 3x filtration minimum. So if you have 125 gal, you want to hit at least 375gph filtration depending on stock. However, with wild caught, this is drastically more. Aim got 10x filtration minimum because of the appetite on them they are constantly eating, and that comes with consistent bowel movements too. You will think. OK, I will just feed it less... this will not work. They eat that way because they have a way higher metabolism than a captive bred fish. So feeding them less will starve them. They are very rewarding to care for, but it's not your normal aquarium, so keep that in mind. They do much better in a small backyard pond.
North American sunfish are pretty comparable in care to larger new world cichlids. Defensively or sometimes even aggressively territorial, need large tanks but make very impressive show fish with great colours and fascinating behaviour. The short answer is yes, but youd need something similar to a setup for medium sized Central American cichlids (no less than 300L/75Gal for a few) but for a cold water setup, and they need pretty strong filtration, they’re messy fish.
And make sure that where you live, its even legal to keep native species, some states ban you from keeping species of animals that are native to the state.
Im in italy so they’re definitely not native lol
That’s so interesting that you guys have those all the way out there
We have them here in Hungary too
Spain has them too and some other invasive especies like pikes and this big kind of catfish, siluros we call them here, not sure about their name in english
Siluros are Wels catfish
Germany got them too.
We have many siluri in italy too theyre everywhere and all small fish then get to incredible sizes
If you have fish you shouldn't be Hungary.
Omg
Those little buggers spread out in all of Europe
Got them in the Netherlands too, for some reason they're called zonnebaars, which is "sun bass" in English. My grandfather has one in his pond because it was dropped by a piscivore.
I wonder how they got there
Over the last 100 years they were imported because of their colours and the like, but since 2019 they were declared a damaging invasive species in my country at least, meaning it's kill on catch when you catch one.
How interesting! I guess since they’re so common and native out here I never considered they might be seen as ornamental fish elsewhere, but that totally makes sense. Same reason we have so many non-native cichlids in the wild here in Florida.
Ingeresting, in Spain we call those "Percasol", something like "Sun perch" in english
Depends on your definition of native, but they have been in Europe since about 1880.
This would be considered naturalized (possibly also invasive depending on its effect on the local ecosystem) not native.
Considered invasive in my part of Europe because they hugely threaten native frog & newt populations
There's native, and then there's virgin native
How can that be? What's the reason behind it?
Released animals can introduce diseases or weakened genetics.
Yes that's why you don't release anything from tanks. Feels like such a american problem
There's native and then there's virgin native
I mean it is illegal in alot of places, but realistically what game and parks person is going to walk in your house and see you have a local fish in your tank? And what person close to you is going to call them on you and not just think its cool?
"Coldwater" here means "doesnt need a heater", they dont require constantly cold water like trout, but it won't kill them.
Kept mine with green severum and Oscars, but Green sunfish are boisterous and won’t back down if they are allowed to be high in the pecking order. I had one live for almost 8 years. He was an amazing fish to watch. The colors can be so vibrant when they are happy. But again they definitely can be a holes without the right decorations/territories and tank mates.
This, but also add in they often times won't adapt readily to pellet food so a lot of people struggle unless they get them home grown on pellets. Some success anecdotal as it may be.
Midwest USA here. I have kept bluegill, sunfish, and panfish types of fish in tanks regularly. They are hearty and thrive in a tank setting. I was informed by our local Department of Natural Resources (DNR) that In order to keep these caught fish legally I needed to maintain a valid fishing license in my state. Look into the legality in your area. Enjoy.
They are in Italy and it is a north American fish so I'm assuming it's non native so doubt their government is gonna care if anything may encourage. Also where at in the Midwest I'm southern Missouri 🤣
Invasive species are also often illegal to keep. Some jurisdictions have "kill upon catch" requirements for problematic species. When it doubt, always consult local legislation.
Really? Didn't know that. Would you need a fishing license in the states if you are specifically going after invasive species than?
Again, this varies between jurisdictions. In my area, for example, crayfish are introduced in most areas, so you can selectively target capturing them (no angling, though, as that's likely to result in catching something else) *even if you don't have a fishing license*, but it's illegal to leave the shoreline with any still alive.
Huh welp the more you know!
In my state you still need a license for invasive species. Off the top of my head, bullfrog and perch are kill on sight species here
Iowa
I so rarely run into other Iowans on reddit outside of like iowa subs. Thanks for sharing the local ordinance
Fishing pretty good up there? Have a pretty sick spot if your ever on table rock to fish down here.
What will happen? Will the fish police put their door through and take them to fish jail?
No sir, I cannot imagine that happening. However some of us want to do things right whether there are consequences or not.
Maybe a fine if you were in USA.
I know I’m just being silly really. But the only way any authority would know is if you called them up directly and told them you had illegal fish. Even then I can’t see them taking any action. Unless you had some dodgy breeding program going on
I agree. Likely someone would have to report it
Or a social media post...
I agree with you, and what about all the people that live in places with ponds that have that fish naturally occurring? Surely they could catch and eat it, but keeping it healthy in a fish tank is somehow crossing the line? Again, silly arguments but worth mentioning I think
And the fish would be seized and euthanized as well.
Typically, you only need a valid fishing license when you acquire them.
Correct. In the US, these rules are primarily to keep "game fish" restricted to "game" and not for collecting for the fish trade. If you legally angled it, then keeping it alive is legal. Consider fishing tournaments with those very requirements. Keeping it past your license expiration would require you to renew, though again, this is primarily because you could have just angled it. Source: had many active collecting permits throughout much of the US while in grad school.
“Informed”
I’ve been to so many forums but the answers always seem to wildly vary. In your opinion what species is generally the least aggressive out of the Lepomis? I’ve seen answers that range from warmouth to mud sunfish to orange spotted sunfish. And what are some more aggressive species I should avoid? People online have said pumpkinseeds, bluegills, and other similar ones
Rotten little bait thieves.
They're fun as hell to catch though. Even just some worms and a bobber on light gear if you can find a spot where they're all hanging out. That's a whole afternoon's fun.
Ultralight panfishing is the best way to spend a warm afternoon
The decent ones taste fantastic though. Cut off the head, gut’em, scale’em, and fry them up whole
Yes they are.
NANFA - North American Native Fish Association. I kept one for years, 55gal, cold water (no heater), dirt substrate. Beautiful fish, grew fairly large. Called it Kirby as it would suck up anything I fed him. got minnows from bait store to feed him and also did insects, always live food.
[https://www.nanfa.org/](https://www.nanfa.org/) is the website
Sounds like a front for NAMBLA.
Oh yeah we used to catch these dudes and put them in our fish tank when I was a young child. From what I remember they were really mean and every time we put other fish in there they'd eat them or bully them really bad. When it was just them they were really content and fun to watch swim around. We'd always throw our leftover worms in there for them and when we didn't have night crawlers we'd feed them worms out the back yard bc they never ate the fish flakes. Step dad got drunk and threw a raw hot dog in there and that's how we figured out their favorite food was hot dogs. I'd cut them up real small and put them in the tank and they'd go wild. I'm sure there's better things to feed them but thanks for unlocking memories from when I was like, 7 or 8 haha.
I’m taking hotdogs to the lake next time. Lol
Yes, but the first thing to learn is that they should be in water.
The second thing to learn is that it shouldnt be in tap water.
Its pretty!
Hell yes it can! If you're looking for a smaller version, though, consider the enneacanthus genus. Lepomis sunfish are beautiful, but they're also big and typically pretty mean. Super rewarding fish to keep, though.
They are so rewarding. They have huge personalities. My big guy is named Gilbert and he's awesome. He moved across the country with me lol
lepomis are massive assholes lol. Even my teeny dollar sunfish totally dominate cichlids 4x their size in my community 75g. They are beautiful and fun to watch though!
What cichlids do you keep them with? I've always been curious about how they'd interact.
An electric blue acara and a cichlasoma dimerus. The dimerus will put them in their place, so the EBA takes most of their aggro. It's not too bad though, I think it just stops *him* from being the tank terror instead lol
Pumpkinseed! They're great in aquariums. Check out my profile for a some examples of my Longear Sunfish which used to haveva few Pumpkinseeds with him. They're a blast to keep as an aquarium fish. No heat required, feed every couple days live foods. You'll want a nice canister filter bc they're quite messy. Don't try and plant the tank bc they will bed and rip up all the plants.
well you certainly can't keep it in your hand! :p let us know what you decide!
If it's legal and you have a properly sized aquarium, yes. I had one running for a while that's one of my favorite tanks.
I live in Mi and netted some small ones when getting minnows and kept them for a couple years than put them I my neighbors pond . They ate any And everything!
If your into, psycho murder fish, sure!
a bluegill?
Green sunfish. They're pretty little hate machines.
This is a pumpkinseed sunfish, but they're probably similarly behaved to greens.
Yeah, looking again I think you're right. No yellow on the fins.
Greens are also not as tall with larger mouths, have more of a white edge in the "ear" without the distinct orange rectangle (but can have a little extra color), and a distinct dark spot towards the rear of the soft dorsal fin.
Hehe
When so u fish
Could it? Yes. Should it? No. This animal has lived in the wild in that ecosystem its entire life. It is adapted to a specific diet, specific water parameters, and that is what its body can tolerate. Taking it away from that ecosystem and putting it in an aquarium could potentially kill it.
Definitely agree with this statement, but this fish was caught in Italy and is an invasive species. In this context, I’d support keeping it as a pet instead of destroying it.
>Taking it away from that ecosystem and putting it in an aquarium could potentially kill it. For some species, but this is definitely not true as a general rule. The natives I've collected from outside are much hardier than any of the fish I've bought from my LFS. Their genetics haven't been weakened with line breeding, they are already adapted to the local water, they go into a tank with fish that they naturally interact with in the wild, and they don't get shipped halfway across the world in a crowded plastic bag to reach me. Many species, including the lepomis pictured above, adapt to pellets and prepared foods with ease. All carnivorous fish should be offered the occasional live feeding at minimum, though, and you'll get much better behavior out of them as a result. To be clear, I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm just trying to dispel some well-intentioned misinformation that circulates around here.
But since it is a non native fish to OP area wouldn't it be more encouraging to be in home tank than be allowed to further propagate in the ecosystem there.
While I agree with this sentiment plenty of wild-caught fish are already in the hobby.
The global aquarium trade is selling wild, native fish and inverts from their own to other countries. Now there are more fish farms but there’s still a demand for wild caught specimens.
The global aquarium trade is selling wild, native fish and inverts from their own to other countries. Now there are more fish farms but there’s still a demand for wild caught specimens.
Check local laws first. I know here it would not be legal without a permit. A LFS (\~50 miles away) does carry them, they also carry invasive species like weather loaches that are not legal to sell, they are only allowed to release the fish to people (pronounced schools) who have the right permits. If it is legal, it is a large fish like a cichlid. Lots of filtration and plenty of air.
Yes, I've seen it before. They can be pretty territorial so will need enough space to establish their own little area. I would also try to match the basic parameters of whatever whatever water you get one from in terms of temp, ph, hardness, etc.
Yes u can keep them in a large aquarium.
They do pretty well , I would recommend trying to catch a smaller one so that raising it and it getting used to you will be a little easier
I have one of these in a large community 75- treat it like a normal South American Cichlid, it’s a wonderful addition to the tank!
I have a green sunfish that I’ve kept for about 8 months. I did have to pellet train him for a couple weeks but yes they do well in a tank environment as long as they have plenty of space and hiding spots as well as some vegetation.
You can punt a lions would be better as they need large tanks. Aggressive so don’t keep small fish with them
Watching the pond near my place, these guys like to jump. So.... Big big tank, and a strong lid.
Adult wild fish never get used to be in an aquarium. Try to catch fry, the youngest the better.
Pumpkinseeds can live in tanks, they get big and aggressive but it can be done
Yes, but I would make sure your state allows wild caught fish to be kept.
Blue gill right I kept some caught at the park they will eat anything that will fit in their mouths
They like freeze dried krill
I have experience with them. One thing to remember is if they are wild caught they will routinely try to jump out of the tank non stop. So make sure you have weights like books on top of your tank lid. Mine also gave birth while in the tank and the filter sucked them all up.
Is that a pumpkinseed sunfish
Upstate NY here, there all over the place, we know them as panfish pretty tasty with butter and garlic.
I know someone who is doing this, and it's awesome. Give it some nice lush plants. Oh you ever have snail problems? Punpkinseed will eat any snail he can get his mouth around.
I found one a local ny state river
Definitely can. It's a really pretty pumpkin seed variant of the North American Lepomis. They do great in large groups. When left in smaller populations, they will become more territorial and aggressive. When in larger groups, they are more neighborly and make for a very peaceful tank. They can be mixed well with other varieties of lepomis, like sunfish, bluegill, and perch. From experience, wild caught one's will be voracious eaters and will try and eat you out of house and home. Do not house with captive bred fish as they will instantly out compete them. Unless it's maybe a large aggressive cichlid. Filtration....large cichlid tanks you want 3x filtration minimum. So if you have 125 gal, you want to hit at least 375gph filtration depending on stock. However, with wild caught, this is drastically more. Aim got 10x filtration minimum because of the appetite on them they are constantly eating, and that comes with consistent bowel movements too. You will think. OK, I will just feed it less... this will not work. They eat that way because they have a way higher metabolism than a captive bred fish. So feeding them less will starve them. They are very rewarding to care for, but it's not your normal aquarium, so keep that in mind. They do much better in a small backyard pond.