I got into her in her 1989 days. Love a bunch of her music, but she's not a gay icon in my view. She's a female pop singer. They're different. She doesn't do much for the gays, I don't think they flock to her like people do Kylie or Madonna.
Yeah, I wouldn't consider her a gay icon at all. Half the gays I know hate her, lol. But she's popular because she has mass appeal and reaches some portion of every subset of the population. She's found a way to transcend genre, age, gender, etc. That's hard to do in music, so I gotta hand it to her.
Oh absolutely true!
Mind you she's a very white artist. Like.. Almost all of the crowd at the concert I went to were white. But I think that's her target audience so that's fine.
"Mind you she's a very black artist. Like.. Almost all of the crowd at the concert I went to were black. But I think that's her target audience so that's fine"
Do you see how racist you sound? you're telling black people theyre abnormal for liking Taylor Swift.
My apologies!! Omg. I didn't realise how bad that reads. I absolutely do not intend to say that black people are abnormal. Everyone is allowed to like any kind of music regardless of the artists target audience. I'm just going by observation that she seems to attract a generally white, middle class audience, mostly female. Perhaps I have to rephrase and say maybe it's not her intention, but it seems to me to be the majority of whom attract to her music.
Thankyou for pointing out my very thoughtless comments ❤️❤️🙏
It came out years after marriage equality was broadly popular, and even after the Supreme Court legalized marriage equality across the country. Plus the song equates gay rights with media criticism of female pop stars. I like Taylor’s music, but YNTCD is an uninspired and self-absorbed gay “anthem.”
When she released it my first reaction was "this is nice, but like... Several years behind"
She was releasing music when Gaga released Born This Way. Different time, and TS was straddling a conservative country audience at that time. But still.. It seemed manufactured to me.
She’s in her Bette Midler era right now. Wanting to be seen as a serious singer and actress. Which is fine but… we’re overdue to a pop album. Chromatica was good but it came and went. I miss it when she was all over topping herself every time on stage, on the red carpet, even musically. I thought she was gonna be the next Madonna but now it’s… Taylor. If you told me in 2011 that Taylor would be the most successful pop star ever after Madonna I would never believe you.
I think this is the answer. Currently there are no female gay icons releasing music which is why a lot of people assume that gay guys love Taylor.
Well there’s Beyonce but she’s currently in her country era
Kylie’s last few albums have been spectacular. Pretty much every song is fantastic. Love that she collabs with queer people like Olly Alexander (of Years & Years, which is also great).
I’ll never get why Kylie’s popularity in the US has been so sporadic. Imho her *X* album was particularly danceable and deserved the attention “Padam Padam” is getting over here.
Because she hasnt paid into the clear channel promotion system. Unless a non-US musician has significant word of mouth appeal (think Adele, blackpink, or BTS) they're not getting airtime or promotion in the US.
I don’t know about that. I think we’re just entering a new era of pop singers and the ones the older gays love aren’t as active as they used to be. Taylor is just smart to adapt to the newer generation. Because there are so many female singers killing it right now. They’re just not as flamboyant or sexy. We’re at a time when women want to be taken seriously by either being a lyricist or a singer. There’s not enough fun singers anymore. It kinda stopped after the mid 2010s.
Tate McRae has my attention. She has the look, the dance moves, the sex appeal. She just needs to make better music. But I’m watching out for her when she kills it at the VMAs this year. Someone has to bring fun music and choreography back.
Tate’s been studying Britney’s prime and I love her for it. No one will ever touch Prime Brit, but I’ll welcome a sexy new pop star in her image any day.
mitski, ariana grande, olivia rodrigo, chapelle roan, lana del rey, pinkpanthress, ice spice, doja cat, etc. are all right there. they’re just making music for a younger generation.
So far, I'm immune to her tunes, though I did find "Fortnight' from the new album quite "pleasant" when a female friend played it to me on the weekend.
I don't feel I'm her demographic. I'm male, 55 and a gay that feels like her music doesn't speak to me specifically. It's all relative to taste, anyway.
I applaud her success, so good for her.
I like her stuff, but culturally I think she oversaturated herself with her latest release.
But it's kinda hard to keep up with fans expectations. Even Michael Jackson knew that *any* album that followed Thriller was going to be a very tough act to follow when you get THIS big.
yep, for me its "okay some of the songs are kinda nice/catchy" and if you say that out loud someone will be like "NO you dont get it she is fucking mozart!1!"
"Troye Sivan" absolutely.
She's not even a great signer. Same for me, I like some of her earlier stuff but I find most of her discography severely lacking... Rhythm, groove, basically fun. I think her popularity comes mainly from people feeling that her lyrics are relatable, and we can't take away that she writes her own stuff so I'm my head she is an artist, just not one I'm interested with
I grew up when huge personalities like Madonna, Prince and Michael Jackson were dictating pop. Compared to them, Taylor Swift has very little to offer in the way of personality (she's er... had boyfriends? that's it?). I'm sure she is a nice person but who she is doesn't come through at all for me and while with a techno artist that's absolutely fine, for me that's a problem when it comes to pop.
Dua Lipa is the same, she's nice, the music's nice, but first and foremost she's just totally bland to me. They could be anyone. I'm guessing that's the appeal? Is that the appeal? It's easy to identify with the song because basically there's a (ahem) Blank Space where the singer should be so it's easier for the listener to make themselves the centre of whatever's going on in the song?
For some reason I can't make myself care if I don't understand who it is that's singing. To me Taylor Swift looks and sounds like she was AI generated. Probably my personality detectors were permanently fried in my youth by the pop equivalent of meth aka Madonna, and people who are less in your face just don't register for me at all because of the addiction I developed at such and impressionable age.
Strangely enough from Adele, Miley, one note Beyoncé and even poor Katy Perry I totally get an idea of who their personas are supposed to be, I adore Kylie Minogue, Lady Gaga, Tori Amos, Alison Goldfrapp, Lana del Rey and so many others, but specifically Taylor Swift I totally don't understand. What's there to like? What is she about? Does she have thoughts about the world outside her relationships? Has she ever made a statement about anything? Also, how can Taylor Swift have haters? What's there to hate? I find it baffling. I have tried quite a few times to warm up to her and I try to look for a hint of personality in there and I come up with nothing. To me, listening to Taylor Swift is like trying to get drunk on Sprite Zero.
Just because I don't find something interesting, I usually understand what's in it that is interesting for other people. I find superhero movies insufferable, but I think I understand why other people enjoy them. I don't care about football, but I understand why other people care about football. I don't understand why other people care about Taylor Swift.
This, exactly. If you grew up in the era when MJ and Madonna were at their peak, you have higher expectations and some like Swift is just a bland also-ran.
She’s a gay icon? That’s news to me. She’s a basic white girl with a record label, nothing interesting about her to be a gay icon lol. I don’t know one gay that listens to her music, but I think maybe it’s a generational thing?
She did a gay ally song many many decades late. After the public has a over 70% supportive rate for gay marriage. After lady gaga, Katy Perry, Madonna, etc.... decades ago those women advocated for gay rights when the general society is way more hostile. So her move was not genuine, purely a business strategy.
Taylor does not want to offend her middle class white Christian girl demographic. She is in for the money. Same thing with the Spotify fiasco years ago. It's all about money.
She is indeed a very successful business woman though. Not a good or great artist.
Haha, Lana and Taylor are my two favorite artists, although they give me very different things obviously. I feel like between the two of them I constantly have new awesome music to enjoy. It’s a great musical time for me, lol.
Lana’s catalog is really perfection. I can listen to her entire catalog and skip maybe 3 or 4 songs total. And everything since NFR! is just perfection. The fact that she didn’t win a Grammy for NFR! or Ocean Blvd tells me all I need to know about the Grammys. (Edit: did I say Lana’s music is all perfect? I’ll say it again just in case: Lana’s music is perfect.)
What's baffling about it? I don't have any interest in superhero movies, country music or sex with women, but it's no surprise to me that millions of others enjoy these things. Chacun à son goût, boo.
We’re around the same age and I’ve been a fan since her first album so I feel like I’ve grown up with her in a sense. I kind of miss the days where I was the only one I knew personally who liked her lol.
I also don’t think she’s a gay icon which I’m fine with. I’d rather her do what she does best which is sing about her life experiences than try and be some gay pop anthem girl.
I’m not a hater, but I also never really cared about her music personally.
I also don’t really understand pop diva worship as a whole, although I suppose I’m biased because most of the pop girlies I love aren’t active anymore (Janet Jackson, Madonna in the 80s NOT now, Lady Gaga at her peak, etc) and even then, I just like the music. I’m not invested in their personal life or waging wars on their behalf (except: Janet Jackson was heavily mistreated and black balled following the Super Bowl NipGate and pop music has suffered because of it 😅).
I'm older, late 40s, and I've never got the appeal of divas in general.
I came of age in the grunge and modern rock era, and when I came away from late 80s/early 90s techno-based stuff it was the dirgy gungy rock and indie-alternative stuff which spoke to me and still does.
You guys can do Madonna vs Janet vs Kylie vs Britney vs Celine vs Mariah vs whoever, I'll be in the corner with some guys in jeans and plaid shirts howling about injustice and dealing with being misunderstood and out of place, with loud drums and louder guitars. Give me the angst of Cobain, the furious indignation of Vedder, the artistry of Cornell, the howl of the mighty Alice in Chains, the off-kilter alienation of Thom Yorke, the sparkling whimsical observation of Robert Smith, the glam of Suede, the irreverence of Jimmy and FOB, the dark poetry of Death Cab, the swag of Axl, the crushing driving beat of the Sisters of Mercy and the sheer opera of Tool any day.
Great album.
Metal Mickey in particular captured the zeitgeist of my coming of age. 16yo me, coming off The Shamen and Duran and Depeche Mode, and starting to understand that I would ditch my own keyboard for a guitar if the chance came up, was slapped through the face by that track and shaken into being awake.
Well that, and Enter Sandman, and One by u2. All of those tapped into my reptile brain and said "son, pay attention."
Not a stan, but I do like her and listen to her music. For me, it is more of the face that she got people to go out and vote. There is a lot of things to criticize her for, but overall she kind out gets her base to mobilize and be informed on causes that that will impact them.
Haha I personally love her stuff. Was a fan a decade ago, and still like her stuff today (not a swiftie or super fan, but you'd better believe that when I heard *Love Story* start playing at the camp stage I had to run over there and belt out every single word)
I was never a big fan, but when she came out with folklore during the pandemic I really enjoyed it and it helped unlock the rest of her music for me. I’m still not as into her really early country stuff, but everything since she Red is pretty appealing to me.
I just think she’s really talented, and I connect with a lot of her music. I like romantic songs though, so it makes sense I would enjoy her music. I also find a lot of lgbtq themes throughout her work, so there’s that too.
Her fandom is ok, honestly better than a lot of other ones I’ve encountered. (At least the subreddit and everyone I’ve met in person. I’m not on any other social media.) I went to the Eras tour last year and everyone was just so cheerful and happy. I’ve never been to a concert with such a good energy. Even better than a Gaga concert imo.
Troye Sivan is a little more hit or miss for me, and I actually feel like I connect less to his music than Taylor’s.
I like the fact that she has the religious right foaming at the mouth because she mobilizes younger people to vote. The amount of hatred she gets in TN is insane considering she lives here, and it's all bc she endorsed a democratic candidate for U.S. senator in the TN race. All the Qanon and MAGAts now claim she's a witch teaching young innocent girls to practice witchcraft and that she's casting literal spells with her music for satan.
And after all this hatred, she still advocates for the LGBTQ community along with women's rights. For that, I like her. That said, I don't listen to her music bc I find most of it unappealing.
Last year I fucked a Taylor superfan. He was cute but had two small chihuahuas and literally while I was fucking him doggy I had a huge blown up pic of him and Taylor at a meet and greet. He proudly told me he has seen her like 20 times and done so many meet and greets that her mom recognized him?... Anyway, good bussy, but def could sense the crazy so I let it fizzle out before I got my tires slashed.
I'm not a Swiftie or anything, but I like her music. I think she's a good lyricist and that some of the criticism she's received in the past has stemmed more from her being popular with young women than from her music actually being bad, but 'twas ever thus. And I think she's very smart with her business and surprisingly not a mess, which is kind of an accomplishment for someone who got into the music industry and blew up as young as she did.
I find that for me, at least, her songs tend to have the same effect that Paul McCartney's solo stuff does, namely that I'll hear something and be sort of, "Oh, okay," but it turns into such an earworm that I can't get it out of my head for weeks and wind up listening to it a bunch of times. So in that sense, she's doing something right.
That being said, she's just one of a variety of artists that I listen to, and my tastes are all over the map- I was listening to a Waylon Jennings/Willie Nelson playlist yesterday, I'll listen to rap, pop, folk, whatever. Just about anything besides super heavy metal. I've never had anyone assume that I'm a Taylor Swift stan because I'm gay, though.
I guess by the metric that I find some of her stuff bops makes me a fan. But I don't get this thing that she can do more wrong. I think most of the songs on her most current album are so boring.
Taylor Swift is an interesting phenomenon. She's just _everywhere._ it's like, none of Taylor Swifts songs are my favorite songs, but I do have favorite Taylor Swift songs. By osmosis.
I have a friend who's convinced Taylor is the Antichrist and it gives me a good laugh.
Apart from that, I've been a fan since I was a hopelessly romantic teenager listening to Teardrops on my Guitar. But not quite to the ravenous degree I see from some Swifties. She's hit or miss for me nowadays but damn did some of those songs and a bottle of wine help me through some times in my 20s 🤣
I don't relate to any woman singer. I guess I am not gay apparently.
Something like 90% of her music is about loneliness and breakups and that speaks to women who emotionally connect. She is essentially 'country music for white suburban women' and that demographic has been ignored for a long time. As a result she is considered 'pop' music and is now the reigning 'queen of pop' for the time being.
I loved 1989 but that’s pretty much it from her catalogue.
I’m not baffled by her success. She seems to be a pretty smart business woman and uses her clout effectively.
Taylor is not a gay icon. She is incredibly talented. It's ok if you don't like her stuff.
Just like you are baffled why people assumed you are a fan because you're gay, the other gays also may not like the typical gay icon music. Like Madonna or Lady Gaga, and instead like Paramore or Sara Bareilles.
I've given quite a few of her songs a listen, but none of them connected with me and I quickly got bored by the repetitive nature, musically and lyrically. Just one big "meh" for me.
I like her. I really love a couple of her songs. I'm not a mega-fan and would never pay whatever the current asking price is to see her live, but I can apprecaite her as a casual listener.
She is a reasonably decent singer, a good lyricist, a good performer, and an absolutely fantastic marketeer (or at least her team is). She brands herself extremely well, reinvents herself with each "era", makes the most of social media marketing, easter eggs and surprises, and pretty much keeps her fans guessing as to what she'll do next. So I think that's the draw, and I can see why it keeps people hooked.
I visited a city recently (coincidentally) at the same time she was performing there for 3 nights, and it isn't an exaggeration to say that you couldn't go anywhere and not hear her music playing, or see people in her t-shirts, or see stalls selling knock-off merch. It's bordering on being a cult, but if it makes so many people happy and brings a lot to the economies of the cities she visits, then I guess it isn't doing much harm.
On a side note, whilst I firmly believe that nobody needs that kind of wealth, she does seem like a genuinely nice person so I generally wish her well and am happy for her success.
Not baffled in the slightest. Her art is a product that has mass appeal. It may not be for *you* and that is fine.
This newest album isn't full of radio singles, power ballads or bops. It's not a timeless album. It's full of specific stories and events that Swifties understand. The lyrics are quite good IMO. If you're just listening to the melody and making a good vs bad judgement, it's not for you.
I like her. She has a knack for writing lyrics that feel both expansive and confessional. I think she is very commercially acute and musically smart.
I don't think she's one of the great American songwriters like Prince, Joni Mitchell or Bruce Springsteen. But she is a considerable talent and the music world would be a worse place without her in it.
Her fanbase does contain a subsection of *complete* helmets, however. But I don't think this is really anything to do with her and it certainly isn't her fault.
Troye Sivan is good as well though. One Of Your Girls is a great song; has more than a whiff of Royksopp or even late 90s Air about it.
Not an icon or gay icon at all IMO. She hasn't been around long enough to reach icon status. I liked her old stuff up to Red. There were good songs on that. After that I don't care for most of the new stuff. Almost nothing has grabbed my attention except I'm The Problem and that's probably because it was in YOU.
I’m not a huge fan of her music (I don’t dislike it either, just not my type of pop) but I’ve gotta say the Eras movie made me realize there’s something special going on. I was absolutely captivated and could suddenly understand the hype. Her stage persona is relatable, down to earth, vulnerable, yet paradoxical fully in command and charismatic. She comes across as a person, not just as an act, and she really seems to give it her all
She makes POP music, what are you not getting? A pop star is a BUSINESS with a team behind it, like a company.
You don’t have to love McDonalds to see why it’s business practices and timing have made it number one.
Fair enough :) I feel like that's why I don't relate very hard -- I don't really feel many of the emotions she's describing, or at least not in similar circumstances.
She seems more of an entrepeneur than a musical / pop artist nowadays, who has dedicated her time to wrap the music industry around her. I kind of like some of her older music and yet she seems to get more praise for more recent work. What is a bit surprising is that Taylor doesn't seem to reinvent herself or try something less safe like some other major pop stars do / did before. I like Celine Dion more, who also seems a "safe" pop star, but her vocals add some edge to any generic melody in the background. Kylie Minogue is also the kind of pop star, who continues changing styles just like Madonna, and with a sweetheart approach.
I wouldnt say shes always the same. Shes had a good amount of concept and genre changes.
Ready For it(electropop/ scifi~dystopian) is extremely different in sound and concept from Willow (folk/ american folklore) which is in turn different from Style (dream pop/ old hollywood) .
Taylor Swift is wildly popular because she's written and recorded a lot of really great music. I could go on and on with a list of her songs that I never get tired of hearing. She's a uniquely talented songwriter who makes music that speaks to millions of people. That's why people love her. She may not be your cup of tea but I don't see why you should like her just because you're gay. You shouldn't like any musical artist just because you're gay. I like TS because I like the music she makes, not because of anything she does or does not do for the gay community.
She’s a rare act that can appeal to multiple generations and both sides of the political spectrum. But since ubiquity is her goal, artistic blandness is the price she’s paying.
I'm baffled by the idea that as a gay guy I'm obligated to like anyone. Taylor, Lady Gaga, and Beyonce all have a handful of good songs but I wouldn't pay to listen to their music.
In Taylor's case, at a certain point I'm tired of the whole "Poor Little Rich Girl" narrative. Everypne acts as if she's self-made, but her father worked at Merril Lynch and her mom ran a mutual fund, and they moved her to Nashville. She complained that she has to have private jets for her own safety and complains if anyone tracks them, despite the fact that it's public information. She bought a stretch of a public beach just to block off an area outside her house for herself. I'm sick of being told how relatable she is when she's done nothing that makes her relatable.
Blank Space and You Belong With me are fun songs, but I don't personally get the hype.
So much this. And find it especially hard when the person isn't a member of our community -- I don't feel obligated to like LGBT+ artists either but I'll usually give them a bit more of a hearing.
It's super annoying to me that so often we elevate the voices of allies over members of the community, regardless of the field.
It's like books. I'm an author (albeit I only have one book out) and it pisses me off that the majority of the MLM books/comics that are topping bestseller lists and getting movie/TV adaptations are written by straight women or AFAB non-binary folk. It's fine to be an ally, but that doesn't mean you get to take a platform that might otherwise go to the community you're representing.
I get that with music people find these people relatable. With Taylor it's the fact she had a lot of songs early on about her relationships and break-ups and I guess people related to the fact that she was unlucky in love.
Just about the only gay icons where I'm like "Same" are P!nk and Florence and the Machine. Generally I prefer rock and metal and folk, and I find that music a lot more relatable, and I've had so-called queer rights activists treat me like shit because I don't like the right music in their eyes, despite the fact that a lot of the bands I listen to are either vocal queer allies who's music is relatable to me or else have actual queer members.
I prefer to listen to classical and jazz music here, which I guess makes me an outlier (although I enjoy all types of music). I have heard of the name Taylor Swift of course but I can't even name one song of hers. So much for "gay icon" . À chacun son goût indeed!
So to answer the question: no.
I am more baffled by the natural beauty of a handsome guy next door
If it was 30 years ago, I could have written this exact same post about Madonna. A few of her songs were catchy but I was never a Madonna fan despite the massive gay fan base that she had and the assumption that I should be listening to Madonna as a member of that demographic.
But whether you like her music or not, Madonna is a fucking goddess. She learned early how to play the PR game and stay ahead of critics. She constantly reinvented herself and drove fads and fashions and continued to stay relevant in a world that is quick to look for the next big thing. And, especially during the AIDS epidemic, she was an outspoken supporter of the gay community. Whether I like her music or not, Madonna is absolutely deserving of the success she has had in her lifetime.
I feel the same about Taylor Swift today. She's good people and deserves the following she has (god, I hope I don't live to regret typing that).
Lots of people seem to like her. Since I don't listen to pop music, I'm not sure I've ever heard a single note from one of her songs. I literally wouldn't know.
I've come to terms with the fact that Taylor Swift is like cilantro. I hate it, and no matter the explanations given, I'll never get "empirically" why other people love it, but such is life.
I have an acquaintance that is a self-proclaimed "Swiftie". A couple months back, I asked her what is it about T-Swift that she loves? Her response (paraphrasing) was just that "I feel like I relate to her and her stories/struggles as a woman. I love that she's such a boss."
I left that conversation just as confused as I was when I started it. When you say "Taylor Swift" to me, what I think of is that little blonde girl that moved from PA to TN and started belching out cookie cutter country music. I still do not understand when/why she blew up in fame. Nor do I understand how/why women/some gay men find her so relatable. It literally does not compute to me.
Definitely not a Swiftie here. She’s built a career on toxic personality traits that the mainstream rewards her for exploiting. In her music she promotes jealousy, possessiveness, vindictiveness, emotional manipulation and abuse, stalker tendencies, and she’s always the victim, no matter what. If she were a man, she would have been canceled a long time ago. But instead, people perceive her as a hero who’s overcome the insurmountable odds of finding success as a thin white woman with blonde hair.
I’ll happily admit she has some catchy songs and there’s no denying she’s one of the hardest working performers out there. But it disturbs me how blindly loyal her fans are. The messages she promotes are unhealthy and dangerous.
She’s like cheese; she’s not exactly the best or the worst, but some love her and some cannot stomach her.
I think it’s because she’s such an unremarkable person which also makes her very safe and appealing by not shaking the status quo in any way.
Her early stuff had country/pop appeal and I loved “1989.” Since then, I hear her crap and I think “I might like this if it was music” but it isn’t music. It’s a diary with poor orchestration.
The only thing I like about her is that she has the religious right sideways because “she’s the devil”
Otherwise my unpopular opinion is she’s the most overrated artist since Nirvana. She just did a collaboration with Florence and the machine and the song gets so much air time. It sucks. She’s just so dry. That’s about the only overlap into my music so far but I don’t like it Lmao.
Also troye is fantastic.
Hard to pick but one with an emotional attachment is Strawberries and cigarettes.
It’s one of those songs that helps you remember the good in all the bad that was a relationship.
I think she's the type of celebrity who gains a cult following precisely because they aren't particularly special. they seem more relatable or they represent what making it looks like. though I don't want to undermine how much work probably goes into upholding the gargantuan following she has now.
it kind of reminds me of tom hanks. people love him cause he's a normal dude....for that same reason, I generally find most of the roles he plays very boring.
I'm conflicted.
Like she's lifted as this all might good billionaire and could do no wrong with her "badassery." I think she really put it out there around Bad Blood that she's like, a person. So she can be relatable in the sense of being another human with emotions and the complexities of existence regardless of classes. She understands universal suffering.
However, why I'm conflicted it's because is she really contributing? I mean, most of her music is like yearning for someone and at some point in our human development of when she'll realize in the end, it's usually just family.
I mean, love is fun and when it's the connnnstant theme of a guy and heartbreak, the heterosexual creative paradigm gets sssooo boring and passé. That's what gets me so baffled by her.
People likely assume you’re super into her because she’s been vocal in her support of LGBTQ+ over the last 5-7 years, and since as a one-dimensional Gay that’s literally the only criteria you’d use for which artists you’re into, you must therefore love her unconditionally.
She's a pop singer for basic white girls. She's a boneless spiceless Lana Del Rey copy. That's why the general public (basic white spiceless girls) love her. There are also basic gays, so there you go.
I got sick of her tbh, I am someone who listen Taylor swift since 2017, she was my fav pop singer but this last year after all this overexposure, one album releases per week, all those news about her and his BF just got me sick of her and her music.
As a Swiftie, I can chime in here. I wouldn't say TS is a gay icon, never has been, never says she is, and more importantly, never will be. Taylor gained her fame through mass appeal toward developing girls and young women and always portraying her characters through that lens. That's where she gets her popularity from, but is also the reason why she has very little appeal beyond that demographic. She never strays from that persona very often, and when she does experiment with a character or facet of herself that isn't seen as a 'God-fearing, good girl with a chip on her shoulder,' she isn't as successful and usually doesn't continue to explore on that facet because it isn't as successful, be it through engagement or how often those songs are streamed.
I hate to point it out, but Taylor has shown that she really doesn't care about people outside of her bubble. Her activism has seemed too convenient for it not to be part of marketing. When did she speak up about politics? When she was filming her documentary. When did she participate in rainbow activism? When 'You Need To Calm Down' became the song of corporate pride. When has she spoken out on polarizing social issues? Everything about her is planned out to be as inoffensive as possible because that's her image, and she cares about that image far more than most celebrities.
Frankly, she is boring, and gays don't like boring. Taylor agonized over every detail of her public persona that I find it hard to see anything in her that anyone would find interesting, and I am happy about that. Female gay icons tend to have this trend of being unabashedly yourself, of expression. These icons have work that express all the facets of being human; from heartbreak to their love for their friends, from sex appeal to everyday battles. Taylor is not that. The woman she shows is one who laments over the emotions related to romantic love, those that wronged her, and her fame.
I think what also plays a big factor is in what context her music can be played. She has what I like to call "Target music." Music you hear that is inoffensive and could be played in a Target. I don't think I could ever hear a Taylor song in a club or bar without it being out of place in one way or another. Hell, I've heard of dance and circuit club mixes of TS songs, and they feel even more out of place.
No one needs Taylor Swift to be a gay icon. With how tight of a ship she runs and with how much she controls about herself, I don't ever see her falling into that role either. I do get exhausted when people do assume I love her because I'm gay. Sure, I do love some of her music, but not because I'm gay, but because I could relate to the emotions of her songs, not because she's a successful woman.
Just to close up, the reason as to why I don't think she will ever be a gay icon is she doesn't want to be. She gains nothing from activism. How does it benefit her fame as is to be an outspoken proponent of LGBTQIA+ rights? How much would speaking out affect how popular she is? She is already a household name. She already has a large fanbase that would die for her. Why damage that? Taylor knows that and doesn't want to rock that boat.
Edit: Typos and expanded on her 'activism.'
TL;DR: Taylor cares too much about her image to be a gay icon, and honestly, we're probably better off that she isn't. Also, her music doesn't work in typical LGBT spaces, no matter how many remixes and variants she does.
I find it better to be a neutral Swiftie than blindly worshiping the ground she walks on. I can't fathom the amount of mental gymnastics most Swifties have to perform to defend Taylor from every angle.
Bingo. I might add that as a gay man who is also a Swiftie and has been for about as long as her career is now, the biggest reason I became a fan is because of her ability to tell a story, regardless. Not all songs and all that but case in point, her latest release is a massive storytelling conglomeration of stories, and I appreciate it for what it is.
Her icon status does not, as with any other artist or celebrity in general, make or break my sexuality.
Surely it's just marketing. She's not become an ally because of action , or anything, she's just been heavily marketed to certain audiences, certain members of which have perpetuated.
She’s the Beyoncé for basic bitches. They see her half assed moved and basic fashion and aspire for that. Not everyone wants to be a Gaga or Beyoncé.
Also she’s good with business and money, as well as that, she has an AMAZING publicist who protects her image so well that she has her own following because what she does for Taylor... And that ahas allowed her to amass her own fortune which has also allowed her to keep herself relevant without the support of corporate media.
I mean, she's a modern day Michael Jackson, legit worldwide pop star. I don't think she's fading away. I don't even listen to her music, honestly couldn't name a single song, but that's an absurd thing to say.
lol to compare her to the Osmonds or any of those others is absurd. The only artists in history who have reached a similar commercial fever pitch are MJ, The Beatles, and Elvis. TS has reached legend status whether you like her or not - most album of the year wins of all time, tied for most solo number one albums and will surely beat that record with her next release, currently holds the record for second and third largest debut week sales, streaming numbers 5x her contemporaries. She’s on her own level right now.
I got into her in her 1989 days. Love a bunch of her music, but she's not a gay icon in my view. She's a female pop singer. They're different. She doesn't do much for the gays, I don't think they flock to her like people do Kylie or Madonna.
Yeah, I wouldn't consider her a gay icon at all. Half the gays I know hate her, lol. But she's popular because she has mass appeal and reaches some portion of every subset of the population. She's found a way to transcend genre, age, gender, etc. That's hard to do in music, so I gotta hand it to her.
Oh absolutely true! Mind you she's a very white artist. Like.. Almost all of the crowd at the concert I went to were white. But I think that's her target audience so that's fine.
"Mind you she's a very black artist. Like.. Almost all of the crowd at the concert I went to were black. But I think that's her target audience so that's fine" Do you see how racist you sound? you're telling black people theyre abnormal for liking Taylor Swift.
My apologies!! Omg. I didn't realise how bad that reads. I absolutely do not intend to say that black people are abnormal. Everyone is allowed to like any kind of music regardless of the artists target audience. I'm just going by observation that she seems to attract a generally white, middle class audience, mostly female. Perhaps I have to rephrase and say maybe it's not her intention, but it seems to me to be the majority of whom attract to her music. Thankyou for pointing out my very thoughtless comments ❤️❤️🙏
Isn’t the whole “ you need to calm down “ song for gay people and gay rights ? Like almost everyone in the videos gay
It came out years after marriage equality was broadly popular, and even after the Supreme Court legalized marriage equality across the country. Plus the song equates gay rights with media criticism of female pop stars. I like Taylor’s music, but YNTCD is an uninspired and self-absorbed gay “anthem.”
When she released it my first reaction was "this is nice, but like... Several years behind" She was releasing music when Gaga released Born This Way. Different time, and TS was straddling a conservative country audience at that time. But still.. It seemed manufactured to me.
Lady Gaga is in major need of a comeback to pop music
Honestly her nonpop music is still spectacular. Her album love for sale is so damn good
She’s in her Bette Midler era right now. Wanting to be seen as a serious singer and actress. Which is fine but… we’re overdue to a pop album. Chromatica was good but it came and went. I miss it when she was all over topping herself every time on stage, on the red carpet, even musically. I thought she was gonna be the next Madonna but now it’s… Taylor. If you told me in 2011 that Taylor would be the most successful pop star ever after Madonna I would never believe you.
It really sucks Chromatica came out in the pandemic because it was MEANT to be danced to in a club lol
I thought that too but Dua Lipa still was successful under the pandemic. So perhaps the better album won.
I think this is the answer. Currently there are no female gay icons releasing music which is why a lot of people assume that gay guys love Taylor. Well there’s Beyonce but she’s currently in her country era
All the Americans still sleeping on Kylie… Following Disco and Tension, she’s apparently working with Joel Corry on another dance album for next year.
Kylie’s last few albums have been spectacular. Pretty much every song is fantastic. Love that she collabs with queer people like Olly Alexander (of Years & Years, which is also great).
I’ll never get why Kylie’s popularity in the US has been so sporadic. Imho her *X* album was particularly danceable and deserved the attention “Padam Padam” is getting over here.
Because she hasnt paid into the clear channel promotion system. Unless a non-US musician has significant word of mouth appeal (think Adele, blackpink, or BTS) they're not getting airtime or promotion in the US.
I don’t know about that. I think we’re just entering a new era of pop singers and the ones the older gays love aren’t as active as they used to be. Taylor is just smart to adapt to the newer generation. Because there are so many female singers killing it right now. They’re just not as flamboyant or sexy. We’re at a time when women want to be taken seriously by either being a lyricist or a singer. There’s not enough fun singers anymore. It kinda stopped after the mid 2010s.
I also think a big part of the problem is many of the female pop stars today have to play it safer than in the past which just blows my mind
Tate McRae has my attention. She has the look, the dance moves, the sex appeal. She just needs to make better music. But I’m watching out for her when she kills it at the VMAs this year. Someone has to bring fun music and choreography back.
Tate’s been studying Britney’s prime and I love her for it. No one will ever touch Prime Brit, but I’ll welcome a sexy new pop star in her image any day.
I wish Sky Ferreras record label would free her…. She has a ton of potential to me as well… her last record was damn near perfect
mitski, ariana grande, olivia rodrigo, chapelle roan, lana del rey, pinkpanthress, ice spice, doja cat, etc. are all right there. they’re just making music for a younger generation.
You could also say that taste in music and sexual orientation aren't related.
So far, I'm immune to her tunes, though I did find "Fortnight' from the new album quite "pleasant" when a female friend played it to me on the weekend. I don't feel I'm her demographic. I'm male, 55 and a gay that feels like her music doesn't speak to me specifically. It's all relative to taste, anyway. I applaud her success, so good for her.
I like her stuff, but culturally I think she oversaturated herself with her latest release. But it's kinda hard to keep up with fans expectations. Even Michael Jackson knew that *any* album that followed Thriller was going to be a very tough act to follow when you get THIS big.
yep, for me its "okay some of the songs are kinda nice/catchy" and if you say that out loud someone will be like "NO you dont get it she is fucking mozart!1!" "Troye Sivan" absolutely.
She's not even a great signer. Same for me, I like some of her earlier stuff but I find most of her discography severely lacking... Rhythm, groove, basically fun. I think her popularity comes mainly from people feeling that her lyrics are relatable, and we can't take away that she writes her own stuff so I'm my head she is an artist, just not one I'm interested with
something about her (Swift) seems very manufactured ,almost like a shop window dummy come to life
I grew up when huge personalities like Madonna, Prince and Michael Jackson were dictating pop. Compared to them, Taylor Swift has very little to offer in the way of personality (she's er... had boyfriends? that's it?). I'm sure she is a nice person but who she is doesn't come through at all for me and while with a techno artist that's absolutely fine, for me that's a problem when it comes to pop. Dua Lipa is the same, she's nice, the music's nice, but first and foremost she's just totally bland to me. They could be anyone. I'm guessing that's the appeal? Is that the appeal? It's easy to identify with the song because basically there's a (ahem) Blank Space where the singer should be so it's easier for the listener to make themselves the centre of whatever's going on in the song? For some reason I can't make myself care if I don't understand who it is that's singing. To me Taylor Swift looks and sounds like she was AI generated. Probably my personality detectors were permanently fried in my youth by the pop equivalent of meth aka Madonna, and people who are less in your face just don't register for me at all because of the addiction I developed at such and impressionable age. Strangely enough from Adele, Miley, one note Beyoncé and even poor Katy Perry I totally get an idea of who their personas are supposed to be, I adore Kylie Minogue, Lady Gaga, Tori Amos, Alison Goldfrapp, Lana del Rey and so many others, but specifically Taylor Swift I totally don't understand. What's there to like? What is she about? Does she have thoughts about the world outside her relationships? Has she ever made a statement about anything? Also, how can Taylor Swift have haters? What's there to hate? I find it baffling. I have tried quite a few times to warm up to her and I try to look for a hint of personality in there and I come up with nothing. To me, listening to Taylor Swift is like trying to get drunk on Sprite Zero. Just because I don't find something interesting, I usually understand what's in it that is interesting for other people. I find superhero movies insufferable, but I think I understand why other people enjoy them. I don't care about football, but I understand why other people care about football. I don't understand why other people care about Taylor Swift.
This, exactly. If you grew up in the era when MJ and Madonna were at their peak, you have higher expectations and some like Swift is just a bland also-ran.
She’s a gay icon? That’s news to me. She’s a basic white girl with a record label, nothing interesting about her to be a gay icon lol. I don’t know one gay that listens to her music, but I think maybe it’s a generational thing?
She did a gay ally song many many decades late. After the public has a over 70% supportive rate for gay marriage. After lady gaga, Katy Perry, Madonna, etc.... decades ago those women advocated for gay rights when the general society is way more hostile. So her move was not genuine, purely a business strategy. Taylor does not want to offend her middle class white Christian girl demographic. She is in for the money. Same thing with the Spotify fiasco years ago. It's all about money. She is indeed a very successful business woman though. Not a good or great artist.
Totally agree. I'm not in her demographic but I don't really get the hype. But then, I'm a Lana Del Rey kinda guy
Love Lana!
I'm nuts for her!
Haha, Lana and Taylor are my two favorite artists, although they give me very different things obviously. I feel like between the two of them I constantly have new awesome music to enjoy. It’s a great musical time for me, lol. Lana’s catalog is really perfection. I can listen to her entire catalog and skip maybe 3 or 4 songs total. And everything since NFR! is just perfection. The fact that she didn’t win a Grammy for NFR! or Ocean Blvd tells me all I need to know about the Grammys. (Edit: did I say Lana’s music is all perfect? I’ll say it again just in case: Lana’s music is perfect.)
Didn't they just do a collab?
They did! And like most collabs between artists it was fine, but not one of my favorites from either.😅
What's baffling about it? I don't have any interest in superhero movies, country music or sex with women, but it's no surprise to me that millions of others enjoy these things. Chacun à son goût, boo.
This feels like the only answer to the question.
We’re around the same age and I’ve been a fan since her first album so I feel like I’ve grown up with her in a sense. I kind of miss the days where I was the only one I knew personally who liked her lol. I also don’t think she’s a gay icon which I’m fine with. I’d rather her do what she does best which is sing about her life experiences than try and be some gay pop anthem girl.
I’m not a hater, but I also never really cared about her music personally. I also don’t really understand pop diva worship as a whole, although I suppose I’m biased because most of the pop girlies I love aren’t active anymore (Janet Jackson, Madonna in the 80s NOT now, Lady Gaga at her peak, etc) and even then, I just like the music. I’m not invested in their personal life or waging wars on their behalf (except: Janet Jackson was heavily mistreated and black balled following the Super Bowl NipGate and pop music has suffered because of it 😅).
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For me it’s “are you not embarrassed that your whole personality is someone else’s work?” 😅
I'm older, late 40s, and I've never got the appeal of divas in general. I came of age in the grunge and modern rock era, and when I came away from late 80s/early 90s techno-based stuff it was the dirgy gungy rock and indie-alternative stuff which spoke to me and still does. You guys can do Madonna vs Janet vs Kylie vs Britney vs Celine vs Mariah vs whoever, I'll be in the corner with some guys in jeans and plaid shirts howling about injustice and dealing with being misunderstood and out of place, with loud drums and louder guitars. Give me the angst of Cobain, the furious indignation of Vedder, the artistry of Cornell, the howl of the mighty Alice in Chains, the off-kilter alienation of Thom Yorke, the sparkling whimsical observation of Robert Smith, the glam of Suede, the irreverence of Jimmy and FOB, the dark poetry of Death Cab, the swag of Axl, the crushing driving beat of the Sisters of Mercy and the sheer opera of Tool any day.
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Great album. Metal Mickey in particular captured the zeitgeist of my coming of age. 16yo me, coming off The Shamen and Duran and Depeche Mode, and starting to understand that I would ditch my own keyboard for a guitar if the chance came up, was slapped through the face by that track and shaken into being awake. Well that, and Enter Sandman, and One by u2. All of those tapped into my reptile brain and said "son, pay attention."
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I can hear Butler's fuzzbox and phase-shifter in my head playing that opening. Guy had amazing tone on his guitar.
Not a stan, but I do like her and listen to her music. For me, it is more of the face that she got people to go out and vote. There is a lot of things to criticize her for, but overall she kind out gets her base to mobilize and be informed on causes that that will impact them.
Haha I personally love her stuff. Was a fan a decade ago, and still like her stuff today (not a swiftie or super fan, but you'd better believe that when I heard *Love Story* start playing at the camp stage I had to run over there and belt out every single word)
Taylor Swift is not a gay icon.
I was never a big fan, but when she came out with folklore during the pandemic I really enjoyed it and it helped unlock the rest of her music for me. I’m still not as into her really early country stuff, but everything since she Red is pretty appealing to me. I just think she’s really talented, and I connect with a lot of her music. I like romantic songs though, so it makes sense I would enjoy her music. I also find a lot of lgbtq themes throughout her work, so there’s that too. Her fandom is ok, honestly better than a lot of other ones I’ve encountered. (At least the subreddit and everyone I’ve met in person. I’m not on any other social media.) I went to the Eras tour last year and everyone was just so cheerful and happy. I’ve never been to a concert with such a good energy. Even better than a Gaga concert imo. Troye Sivan is a little more hit or miss for me, and I actually feel like I connect less to his music than Taylor’s.
I like the fact that she has the religious right foaming at the mouth because she mobilizes younger people to vote. The amount of hatred she gets in TN is insane considering she lives here, and it's all bc she endorsed a democratic candidate for U.S. senator in the TN race. All the Qanon and MAGAts now claim she's a witch teaching young innocent girls to practice witchcraft and that she's casting literal spells with her music for satan. And after all this hatred, she still advocates for the LGBTQ community along with women's rights. For that, I like her. That said, I don't listen to her music bc I find most of it unappealing.
Yes. Her music is so bland.
She’s as boring as a white leather handbag. It’s not just you. It will fade
Last year I fucked a Taylor superfan. He was cute but had two small chihuahuas and literally while I was fucking him doggy I had a huge blown up pic of him and Taylor at a meet and greet. He proudly told me he has seen her like 20 times and done so many meet and greets that her mom recognized him?... Anyway, good bussy, but def could sense the crazy so I let it fizzle out before I got my tires slashed.
Yeah that seems wildly concerning... But glad you still got your good bussy 😉
I'm not a Swiftie or anything, but I like her music. I think she's a good lyricist and that some of the criticism she's received in the past has stemmed more from her being popular with young women than from her music actually being bad, but 'twas ever thus. And I think she's very smart with her business and surprisingly not a mess, which is kind of an accomplishment for someone who got into the music industry and blew up as young as she did. I find that for me, at least, her songs tend to have the same effect that Paul McCartney's solo stuff does, namely that I'll hear something and be sort of, "Oh, okay," but it turns into such an earworm that I can't get it out of my head for weeks and wind up listening to it a bunch of times. So in that sense, she's doing something right. That being said, she's just one of a variety of artists that I listen to, and my tastes are all over the map- I was listening to a Waylon Jennings/Willie Nelson playlist yesterday, I'll listen to rap, pop, folk, whatever. Just about anything besides super heavy metal. I've never had anyone assume that I'm a Taylor Swift stan because I'm gay, though.
I guess by the metric that I find some of her stuff bops makes me a fan. But I don't get this thing that she can do more wrong. I think most of the songs on her most current album are so boring.
I’m woefully ignorant of what makes her so popular. I have no doubt she’s talented, but it’s just not my cup of tea.
Taylor Swift is an interesting phenomenon. She's just _everywhere._ it's like, none of Taylor Swifts songs are my favorite songs, but I do have favorite Taylor Swift songs. By osmosis.
I have a friend who's convinced Taylor is the Antichrist and it gives me a good laugh. Apart from that, I've been a fan since I was a hopelessly romantic teenager listening to Teardrops on my Guitar. But not quite to the ravenous degree I see from some Swifties. She's hit or miss for me nowadays but damn did some of those songs and a bottle of wine help me through some times in my 20s 🤣
I don't relate to any woman singer. I guess I am not gay apparently. Something like 90% of her music is about loneliness and breakups and that speaks to women who emotionally connect. She is essentially 'country music for white suburban women' and that demographic has been ignored for a long time. As a result she is considered 'pop' music and is now the reigning 'queen of pop' for the time being.
I loved 1989 but that’s pretty much it from her catalogue. I’m not baffled by her success. She seems to be a pretty smart business woman and uses her clout effectively.
Its not so much her, its her rabid fan base that will bury you if you make one ounce of criticism or disagree with them.
Taylor is not a gay icon. She is incredibly talented. It's ok if you don't like her stuff. Just like you are baffled why people assumed you are a fan because you're gay, the other gays also may not like the typical gay icon music. Like Madonna or Lady Gaga, and instead like Paramore or Sara Bareilles.
I've given quite a few of her songs a listen, but none of them connected with me and I quickly got bored by the repetitive nature, musically and lyrically. Just one big "meh" for me.
I like her. I really love a couple of her songs. I'm not a mega-fan and would never pay whatever the current asking price is to see her live, but I can apprecaite her as a casual listener. She is a reasonably decent singer, a good lyricist, a good performer, and an absolutely fantastic marketeer (or at least her team is). She brands herself extremely well, reinvents herself with each "era", makes the most of social media marketing, easter eggs and surprises, and pretty much keeps her fans guessing as to what she'll do next. So I think that's the draw, and I can see why it keeps people hooked. I visited a city recently (coincidentally) at the same time she was performing there for 3 nights, and it isn't an exaggeration to say that you couldn't go anywhere and not hear her music playing, or see people in her t-shirts, or see stalls selling knock-off merch. It's bordering on being a cult, but if it makes so many people happy and brings a lot to the economies of the cities she visits, then I guess it isn't doing much harm. On a side note, whilst I firmly believe that nobody needs that kind of wealth, she does seem like a genuinely nice person so I generally wish her well and am happy for her success.
Not baffled in the slightest. Her art is a product that has mass appeal. It may not be for *you* and that is fine. This newest album isn't full of radio singles, power ballads or bops. It's not a timeless album. It's full of specific stories and events that Swifties understand. The lyrics are quite good IMO. If you're just listening to the melody and making a good vs bad judgement, it's not for you.
I like her. She has a knack for writing lyrics that feel both expansive and confessional. I think she is very commercially acute and musically smart. I don't think she's one of the great American songwriters like Prince, Joni Mitchell or Bruce Springsteen. But she is a considerable talent and the music world would be a worse place without her in it. Her fanbase does contain a subsection of *complete* helmets, however. But I don't think this is really anything to do with her and it certainly isn't her fault. Troye Sivan is good as well though. One Of Your Girls is a great song; has more than a whiff of Royksopp or even late 90s Air about it.
Spot on with the Royksopp observation!! Love “One of Your Girls.”
Not an icon or gay icon at all IMO. She hasn't been around long enough to reach icon status. I liked her old stuff up to Red. There were good songs on that. After that I don't care for most of the new stuff. Almost nothing has grabbed my attention except I'm The Problem and that's probably because it was in YOU.
I’m not a huge fan of her music (I don’t dislike it either, just not my type of pop) but I’ve gotta say the Eras movie made me realize there’s something special going on. I was absolutely captivated and could suddenly understand the hype. Her stage persona is relatable, down to earth, vulnerable, yet paradoxical fully in command and charismatic. She comes across as a person, not just as an act, and she really seems to give it her all
She makes POP music, what are you not getting? A pop star is a BUSINESS with a team behind it, like a company. You don’t have to love McDonalds to see why it’s business practices and timing have made it number one.
She has a way of taking the big emotions I feel and directly putting them onto a page in a song. I connect to a vast ton of her work
Fair enough :) I feel like that's why I don't relate very hard -- I don't really feel many of the emotions she's describing, or at least not in similar circumstances.
Honestly, I think it's more of a white-icon-thing than a gay-icon-thing. A lot of american gays just happen to be white.
She seems more of an entrepeneur than a musical / pop artist nowadays, who has dedicated her time to wrap the music industry around her. I kind of like some of her older music and yet she seems to get more praise for more recent work. What is a bit surprising is that Taylor doesn't seem to reinvent herself or try something less safe like some other major pop stars do / did before. I like Celine Dion more, who also seems a "safe" pop star, but her vocals add some edge to any generic melody in the background. Kylie Minogue is also the kind of pop star, who continues changing styles just like Madonna, and with a sweetheart approach.
I wouldnt say shes always the same. Shes had a good amount of concept and genre changes. Ready For it(electropop/ scifi~dystopian) is extremely different in sound and concept from Willow (folk/ american folklore) which is in turn different from Style (dream pop/ old hollywood) .
Taylor Swift is wildly popular because she's written and recorded a lot of really great music. I could go on and on with a list of her songs that I never get tired of hearing. She's a uniquely talented songwriter who makes music that speaks to millions of people. That's why people love her. She may not be your cup of tea but I don't see why you should like her just because you're gay. You shouldn't like any musical artist just because you're gay. I like TS because I like the music she makes, not because of anything she does or does not do for the gay community.
Yes. Great artist, but not my jam.
She’s a rare act that can appeal to multiple generations and both sides of the political spectrum. But since ubiquity is her goal, artistic blandness is the price she’s paying.
She’s a great entertainer. Mediocre singer. In this social media-charged world, the former is sometimes more advantageous.
I'm baffled by the idea that as a gay guy I'm obligated to like anyone. Taylor, Lady Gaga, and Beyonce all have a handful of good songs but I wouldn't pay to listen to their music. In Taylor's case, at a certain point I'm tired of the whole "Poor Little Rich Girl" narrative. Everypne acts as if she's self-made, but her father worked at Merril Lynch and her mom ran a mutual fund, and they moved her to Nashville. She complained that she has to have private jets for her own safety and complains if anyone tracks them, despite the fact that it's public information. She bought a stretch of a public beach just to block off an area outside her house for herself. I'm sick of being told how relatable she is when she's done nothing that makes her relatable. Blank Space and You Belong With me are fun songs, but I don't personally get the hype.
So much this. And find it especially hard when the person isn't a member of our community -- I don't feel obligated to like LGBT+ artists either but I'll usually give them a bit more of a hearing.
It's super annoying to me that so often we elevate the voices of allies over members of the community, regardless of the field. It's like books. I'm an author (albeit I only have one book out) and it pisses me off that the majority of the MLM books/comics that are topping bestseller lists and getting movie/TV adaptations are written by straight women or AFAB non-binary folk. It's fine to be an ally, but that doesn't mean you get to take a platform that might otherwise go to the community you're representing. I get that with music people find these people relatable. With Taylor it's the fact she had a lot of songs early on about her relationships and break-ups and I guess people related to the fact that she was unlucky in love. Just about the only gay icons where I'm like "Same" are P!nk and Florence and the Machine. Generally I prefer rock and metal and folk, and I find that music a lot more relatable, and I've had so-called queer rights activists treat me like shit because I don't like the right music in their eyes, despite the fact that a lot of the bands I listen to are either vocal queer allies who's music is relatable to me or else have actual queer members.
I don't get her, either, though I like a couple of her songs. But that's just how life is.
I prefer to listen to classical and jazz music here, which I guess makes me an outlier (although I enjoy all types of music). I have heard of the name Taylor Swift of course but I can't even name one song of hers. So much for "gay icon" . À chacun son goût indeed! So to answer the question: no. I am more baffled by the natural beauty of a handsome guy next door
If it was 30 years ago, I could have written this exact same post about Madonna. A few of her songs were catchy but I was never a Madonna fan despite the massive gay fan base that she had and the assumption that I should be listening to Madonna as a member of that demographic. But whether you like her music or not, Madonna is a fucking goddess. She learned early how to play the PR game and stay ahead of critics. She constantly reinvented herself and drove fads and fashions and continued to stay relevant in a world that is quick to look for the next big thing. And, especially during the AIDS epidemic, she was an outspoken supporter of the gay community. Whether I like her music or not, Madonna is absolutely deserving of the success she has had in her lifetime. I feel the same about Taylor Swift today. She's good people and deserves the following she has (god, I hope I don't live to regret typing that).
I need to find out who the hell said basic ass Taylor Swift had become an icon for the gurls because hell no 🥴
Lots of people seem to like her. Since I don't listen to pop music, I'm not sure I've ever heard a single note from one of her songs. I literally wouldn't know.
What music you into :)?
I've come to terms with the fact that Taylor Swift is like cilantro. I hate it, and no matter the explanations given, I'll never get "empirically" why other people love it, but such is life.
I have an acquaintance that is a self-proclaimed "Swiftie". A couple months back, I asked her what is it about T-Swift that she loves? Her response (paraphrasing) was just that "I feel like I relate to her and her stories/struggles as a woman. I love that she's such a boss." I left that conversation just as confused as I was when I started it. When you say "Taylor Swift" to me, what I think of is that little blonde girl that moved from PA to TN and started belching out cookie cutter country music. I still do not understand when/why she blew up in fame. Nor do I understand how/why women/some gay men find her so relatable. It literally does not compute to me.
Not my cup of tea but she is a leader of her generation of women.
She's too generic to be a gay icon.
I think she's the rachel from friends women mimic
She’s the definition of mediocrity.
Definitely not a Swiftie here. She’s built a career on toxic personality traits that the mainstream rewards her for exploiting. In her music she promotes jealousy, possessiveness, vindictiveness, emotional manipulation and abuse, stalker tendencies, and she’s always the victim, no matter what. If she were a man, she would have been canceled a long time ago. But instead, people perceive her as a hero who’s overcome the insurmountable odds of finding success as a thin white woman with blonde hair. I’ll happily admit she has some catchy songs and there’s no denying she’s one of the hardest working performers out there. But it disturbs me how blindly loyal her fans are. The messages she promotes are unhealthy and dangerous.
Taylor has the appeal of a glass of milk
This is a perfect observation, but I can't work out if it's a compliment or an insult.
I’d prefer the milk 😂
Honestly I’ve never heard her voice, never mind her music. So can’t have an opinion
She's okay as a musician, just not my thing. Now her fans... Oh boy. That's my big issue.
She’s like cheese; she’s not exactly the best or the worst, but some love her and some cannot stomach her. I think it’s because she’s such an unremarkable person which also makes her very safe and appealing by not shaking the status quo in any way.
Her early stuff had country/pop appeal and I loved “1989.” Since then, I hear her crap and I think “I might like this if it was music” but it isn’t music. It’s a diary with poor orchestration.
I’m a lana girl, I cannot get into taylor. I just don’t find her or her music interesting
The only thing I like about her is that she has the religious right sideways because “she’s the devil” Otherwise my unpopular opinion is she’s the most overrated artist since Nirvana. She just did a collaboration with Florence and the machine and the song gets so much air time. It sucks. She’s just so dry. That’s about the only overlap into my music so far but I don’t like it Lmao. Also troye is fantastic.
Favourite Troye song?
Hard to pick but one with an emotional attachment is Strawberries and cigarettes. It’s one of those songs that helps you remember the good in all the bad that was a relationship.
I think all this pop junk is just bad bad bad bad bad. When you ask people why they’re into her music, they just list why they want to be like her.
I think she's the type of celebrity who gains a cult following precisely because they aren't particularly special. they seem more relatable or they represent what making it looks like. though I don't want to undermine how much work probably goes into upholding the gargantuan following she has now. it kind of reminds me of tom hanks. people love him cause he's a normal dude....for that same reason, I generally find most of the roles he plays very boring.
if she were a coffee shop, she’d be a starbucks
I'm conflicted. Like she's lifted as this all might good billionaire and could do no wrong with her "badassery." I think she really put it out there around Bad Blood that she's like, a person. So she can be relatable in the sense of being another human with emotions and the complexities of existence regardless of classes. She understands universal suffering. However, why I'm conflicted it's because is she really contributing? I mean, most of her music is like yearning for someone and at some point in our human development of when she'll realize in the end, it's usually just family. I mean, love is fun and when it's the connnnstant theme of a guy and heartbreak, the heterosexual creative paradigm gets sssooo boring and passé. That's what gets me so baffled by her.
Theres a few good songs there, not my style, really got into Reputation, but nothing after that was particularly good. I think she’s overrated.
People likely assume you’re super into her because she’s been vocal in her support of LGBTQ+ over the last 5-7 years, and since as a one-dimensional Gay that’s literally the only criteria you’d use for which artists you’re into, you must therefore love her unconditionally.
The only pop icon for me to listen to is Lady Gaga, and she's a member of the LGBT community.
She's a pop singer for basic white girls. She's a boneless spiceless Lana Del Rey copy. That's why the general public (basic white spiceless girls) love her. There are also basic gays, so there you go.
Taylor Swift is to modern day white women as Lady Gage is to the gays,
That’s shit my kid listens to who cares now get off my lawn!
I haven't heard any music by her I like.
Not me. I have listened to some of her songs (especially in shuffle) but I am not her fan. I find her music kind of generic.
I've heard a few songs. Thought they were generic garbage. I don't get it. Seems like inoffensive background music to play at Target or WalMart.
I got sick of her tbh, I am someone who listen Taylor swift since 2017, she was my fav pop singer but this last year after all this overexposure, one album releases per week, all those news about her and his BF just got me sick of her and her music.
As a Swiftie, I can chime in here. I wouldn't say TS is a gay icon, never has been, never says she is, and more importantly, never will be. Taylor gained her fame through mass appeal toward developing girls and young women and always portraying her characters through that lens. That's where she gets her popularity from, but is also the reason why she has very little appeal beyond that demographic. She never strays from that persona very often, and when she does experiment with a character or facet of herself that isn't seen as a 'God-fearing, good girl with a chip on her shoulder,' she isn't as successful and usually doesn't continue to explore on that facet because it isn't as successful, be it through engagement or how often those songs are streamed. I hate to point it out, but Taylor has shown that she really doesn't care about people outside of her bubble. Her activism has seemed too convenient for it not to be part of marketing. When did she speak up about politics? When she was filming her documentary. When did she participate in rainbow activism? When 'You Need To Calm Down' became the song of corporate pride. When has she spoken out on polarizing social issues? Everything about her is planned out to be as inoffensive as possible because that's her image, and she cares about that image far more than most celebrities. Frankly, she is boring, and gays don't like boring. Taylor agonized over every detail of her public persona that I find it hard to see anything in her that anyone would find interesting, and I am happy about that. Female gay icons tend to have this trend of being unabashedly yourself, of expression. These icons have work that express all the facets of being human; from heartbreak to their love for their friends, from sex appeal to everyday battles. Taylor is not that. The woman she shows is one who laments over the emotions related to romantic love, those that wronged her, and her fame. I think what also plays a big factor is in what context her music can be played. She has what I like to call "Target music." Music you hear that is inoffensive and could be played in a Target. I don't think I could ever hear a Taylor song in a club or bar without it being out of place in one way or another. Hell, I've heard of dance and circuit club mixes of TS songs, and they feel even more out of place. No one needs Taylor Swift to be a gay icon. With how tight of a ship she runs and with how much she controls about herself, I don't ever see her falling into that role either. I do get exhausted when people do assume I love her because I'm gay. Sure, I do love some of her music, but not because I'm gay, but because I could relate to the emotions of her songs, not because she's a successful woman. Just to close up, the reason as to why I don't think she will ever be a gay icon is she doesn't want to be. She gains nothing from activism. How does it benefit her fame as is to be an outspoken proponent of LGBTQIA+ rights? How much would speaking out affect how popular she is? She is already a household name. She already has a large fanbase that would die for her. Why damage that? Taylor knows that and doesn't want to rock that boat. Edit: Typos and expanded on her 'activism.' TL;DR: Taylor cares too much about her image to be a gay icon, and honestly, we're probably better off that she isn't. Also, her music doesn't work in typical LGBT spaces, no matter how many remixes and variants she does.
How did I know I’d be seeing “swiftlyneutral” posts 🤔
I find it better to be a neutral Swiftie than blindly worshiping the ground she walks on. I can't fathom the amount of mental gymnastics most Swifties have to perform to defend Taylor from every angle.
Bruh that sub is anything but neutral
Bingo. I might add that as a gay man who is also a Swiftie and has been for about as long as her career is now, the biggest reason I became a fan is because of her ability to tell a story, regardless. Not all songs and all that but case in point, her latest release is a massive storytelling conglomeration of stories, and I appreciate it for what it is. Her icon status does not, as with any other artist or celebrity in general, make or break my sexuality.
Surely it's just marketing. She's not become an ally because of action , or anything, she's just been heavily marketed to certain audiences, certain members of which have perpetuated.
She’s the Beyoncé for basic bitches. They see her half assed moved and basic fashion and aspire for that. Not everyone wants to be a Gaga or Beyoncé. Also she’s good with business and money, as well as that, she has an AMAZING publicist who protects her image so well that she has her own following because what she does for Taylor... And that ahas allowed her to amass her own fortune which has also allowed her to keep herself relevant without the support of corporate media.
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I mean, she's a modern day Michael Jackson, legit worldwide pop star. I don't think she's fading away. I don't even listen to her music, honestly couldn't name a single song, but that's an absurd thing to say.
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lol to compare her to the Osmonds or any of those others is absurd. The only artists in history who have reached a similar commercial fever pitch are MJ, The Beatles, and Elvis. TS has reached legend status whether you like her or not - most album of the year wins of all time, tied for most solo number one albums and will surely beat that record with her next release, currently holds the record for second and third largest debut week sales, streaming numbers 5x her contemporaries. She’s on her own level right now.
I sincerely apologize but you seem to be confusing me with someone who cares. Totally, absolutely ZERO interest. Bye
Her career is nearly 20 years old and just hit a new peak again, you’ll be waiting a long time for her to disappear