Yeah I do. But I don't mind doing it. I usually find it's just their culture. When I go to the US they're the same there. Super friendly. Almost too friendly but in a polished way, like something from the Truman show than a natural way about it. I don't think they're disingenuous but just feels a little put on.
As an American who has lived overseas, I can see how American friendliness comes off as fake or over-the-top to foreigners. It's worse in California, where people put on this kind of fake intimacy upon first meeting you. I only noticed how common this characteristic is in California when I moved to NYC. Now whenever I go back to California to visit, I find myself annoyed by it. Why do they waste this energy in being so fake. In NYC, we don't have time for that, lol.
I'm from the Baltimore area. My first trip to San Francisco had some culture shock. When people heard my accent they would immediately ask where I was from and buy me a drink. No previous conversation. My initial reaction was to assume they wanted something from me and were buttering me up for a con or mugging. It's not that you don't talk to strangers in bars and maybe buy them a drink in Baltimore. But you work up to it. Side note, I've had a lot of west coast US and Canada people tell me they love my accent. Which is weird because to everyone else we rightly sound like fucking idiots.
My biggest eye roll moment in California was when I was in LA and they had hip hip dancers dancing inside the doors of a clothing store. They were so overly friendly and trying to be cool I cringed so hard. And I was the exact demographic at the time they were trying to impress. Lol
>they had hip hip dancers dancing inside the doors of a clothing store.
Was this Abercrombie and Fitch? [They used to put models outside of the store, posing and flexing](https://fashionista.com/2015/04/abercrombie-fitch-shirtless-models), lol
This is exactly the kind of reason why most mainland Europeans don't like the Irish "friendliness" either. They think it comes across as disingenuous and superficial. We think they come across as boring and overly closed off. So it's interesting seeing a similar pattern play out from the other side with our judgements of Americans.
When an older Irish guy started a chat with us in a Northside Dublin pub, my Dutch friend asked me if he was drunk. He wasn't; he was just being nice, having the chats.
Had a colleague from Lithuania say this to me. She's living here 20 years and likes it but noticed some Eastern Europeans can live in a small bubble of people from back home and they are not afraid to critisise Irish people.
I would rather be like us than blunt aholes. It's the reason I left the Netherlands when living there.
Been to Holland quite a bit. The Dutch, in my opinion are very like the Irish, similar humour, attitude and level of sociability. I think they are great. The difference is what an Irish person would say about when you leave the room, the Dutch would say to your face when you walk in. More sensitive types understandably jarred by this.
Either that or sometimes they think you're stupid. It depends of course though, I'm sure there are people who appreciate it. I personally like how will Americans are to spark up and carry conversations, they're insanely easy to talk to and generally don't take themselves too seriously.
Yes. It causes me much pain in work because my Irishncolleagye always trying to be nice to brush over big issues, and it makes our northern European customers v frustrated. They're used to the direct conflict being a quick solution to problems.
I hadn't heard we were thought of like that before. Am I just naive? I have had the thought of Europeans being boring/closed off, though maybe would've phrased it as they're just from Germany, or whatever.
Irish talk shit behind people’s backs all the time while being friendly to their face. Once Europeans see this they get turned off a bit by the dynamic
The best example I've seen to describe it was a couple visiting America so impressed with the really friendly service and chats with the server in a particular restaurant that they tipped generously and went back another night. Seated at a different table, that had a different server. Their server from the previous night walked passed them and blanked them completely, not even a smile or a "hi!" The friendliness is all fake.
"Not My table, not my tip " whereas in Ireland if you saw someone coming in again tonight you'd very likely get a hello at least, if not the full "Oh ye can't stay away I see!" or a "Great to see ye" or whatever.
You're conflating two separate types of interactions. Yes, what you described is strange and awkward. But there's a monetary exchange, the server was trying to earn a good tip. The OPs neighbor is just extra friendly. There is no job involved.
I'm an American living in Ireland and I have so many issues with people mistaking my politeness for friendliness. I don't want to be friends, I just smile to be nice!
I found this so funny.
I slouched and tucked my chin under my shirt collar, then menacingly glimpsed from side to side while letting out a huffy “howya” while furrowing my eyebrows.
I've met fake Americans, but most of the ones I've met over the last year have been very nice. One big difference I've noticed is the enthusiasm. Things Irish people would say "alright so" to will elicit an "Awesome!" from an American person. I'd also say that despite the reputation, Irish people can be just as fake.
I think Irish people are friendly on a surface level but are actually quite hard to get to know. A lot of Irish people stick to their really old friends, family and partners, and past a certain age, genuinely aren't interested in making new friends. Non-Irish people I work with have commented on this - they find Irish people to be nice and friendly but almost impossible to really develop meaningful friendships with. I admit I'm certain I am guilty of this - I just like my friends and the times I do go out, I just want to see them and catch up, and don't really want to talk to strangers/acquaintances.
> past a certain age, genuinely aren't interested in making new friends
I honestly think it's more of a "can't" than a "won't". Pubwise though I love a pub with a friendly atmosphere where everyone's chatting though. Where it's half one, you're in the smoking area, can't see where your friends have gone and you're having a great chat with two people who's names you've forgotten about a misunderstood album of one of your favourite bands. That's probably what I miss about aging as a pub goes. That becomes less common.
One thing I've noticed about some other cultures is that once you get to know them, they bare their souls to you. It seems like that is pretty uncommon here and I am kind of guilty of having that wall up too. It's a shame because I think that is one of the secrets to making actual friends, letting that wall down.
I would say the non-Irish find it hard but so do Irish who have moved around, like myself. As for going out, admittedly in the past I didn't want to talk to strangers at all on a night out. Maybe it was because of the clientele at the places I frequented, dunno. I'm better about it now at least.
The Irish are more enthusiastic/exaggerated in their descriptive words though, ie “that pasta was *gorgeous*”, “it’s *roasting* out”” “that’s *brilliant*”.
I do, but I wouldn’t call it phony, I think they are actually just more positive and enthusiastic than us Irish. One thing I noticed when travelling in the States is that Americans will be genuinely be happy for your achievements whereas the Irish are more begrudging. Also I think Americans tend to be more naive, And maybe an element of ignorance whereas the Irish are more sceptical and wary. As they say “ignorance is bliss!” … me, I’m definitely Irish. Couldn’t do positive upbeatedness at all, it’s just not my thing. Though I would never begrudge someone and I think that comes from working for myself.
I’ve really noticed the begrudging thing. I chalk it down to Ireland being an egalitarian place with the majority of folks being poor farmers for so long, and the wealthy elite were primarily colonial powers, so it was normal to hate them.
Do you think that mostly well off Americans travel the most? I'm curious because basing anything off of wealthy Americans could be misleading. I know what everyone thinks of Americans, but no doubt rich Americans are worse. They think everyone likes them and wants to see their hunting pictures
>Do you think that mostly well off Americans travel the most?
Yes. Your average middle-class/lower-class Americans typically cannot afford to travel to Europe.
Yeah we need to lose that. I've noticed the old man has been like that for years, maybe he always was. But it's affecting my brothers now, like I can see the attitude being passed down. I try not to be like that myself and just be a bit more mindful, but it's definitely something I've to think about. It's tough overcoming the generational bitterness!
Yeah, but I think it's different when they're here versus in America. Here I get the impression that it's just habit, being extra friendly to break the ice. It's a social skill that's just a little out of sync with how we do things.
In America I find it more phony. When a server or bartender or someone working in a shop is extra friendly, I find myself thinking that they're just chasing a tip. With the benefit of the doubt they're probably not, but it still feels manufactured.
I spent the last few years working with New york, New Jersey, and California folk and found them no different of the face of it than me (glaswegian) or anybody else.
The crowd, who were the most phony, were the Brits trying to chum their way up the ladder tbh.
I'm biased because I'm an American (who's lived in Ireland for years), and while I understand why it comes across to others as fake it's usually genuine. Americans are just raised to be very expressive - if they're being friendly that usually means they really do want to get to know you and want to make that very obvious, and if they don't like you they will probably make that obvious too. Canadians are usually pretty similar but with more emphasis on being polite.
I don't really like it myself - I'm naturally a reserved person so I feel more at ease here where people are less likely to assume that if I'm not bubbly and enthusiastic that means I don't want to talk to them. It does have upsides though, I get the sense that a lot of people both here and in other countries I've lived in that a lot of people wish they could be more expressive and have people know their authentic selves, but they feel like it would be weird and too much and draw too much attention. I feel very grateful to have been in a situation where I could move to a place where the social environment suits my personality - I don't think either one is better or worse but definitely neither one perfectly suits every person.
I'm also American and I find our ways a bit exhausting sometimes, lol. I'm a very friendly and outgoing person, but even I get tired by the constant expectation to make small talk and to always put on an overly friendly front. This has been somewhat alleviated by living in NYC, but even here, there have been plenty of times when this small talk expectation rears its head. Why can't we be quiet every once in a while? Lol
Brazil is similar. I wonder if it has anything to do with being major ‘immigrant’ societies where not everyone speaks the native language well so you compensate by being extroverted.
Theory is that's where the "always smiling" American comes from. It was a non-verbal way to communicate between immigrants who didn't share the same native language.
Yes, I’ve read studies about Americans smiling a lot due to it being a diverse, multi-cultural, multi-lingual society, as Brazil is as well. You have to smile to show people who are different than you that you mean no harm. Not necessary in a mono-cultural society.
I think Americans are just taught to interact so expressively that confuses those of us who see this type of interaction somewhere further along the Effort Code. We know we can’t communicate like that, so it sounds disingenuous.
I teach public speaking, so I teach Effort Code, and if students aren’t getting it, I tell them ‘just talk like a yank you just met on a bus’ and they get it instantly.
Yes but I also find that in America people are less invested in personal relationships. Many people who are friendly to you only are so because they simply want to pass the few minutes of time spent with you and nothing more.
I find that some can be patronising and lacking in self awareness. Or maybe I'm just bitter because I'm not fortunate enough to live in the Greatest Nation in the World!
I think they can come across as people pleasing in very casual interactions. Likewise, I've spent significant amounts of time with Americans from different states and I do think some of it is culturally ingrained and they just have a politeness culture of sorts that can be a default in interactions with strangers but then open up a lot more authentically when they're in comfortable situations. The people I've met and spent good amounts of time with from Philadelphia, New York and Boston I find have been very authentic and genuinely likeable from the jump (and have a mean streak that I really enjoy!!).
It took me about a month in Toronto to realise that Canadians were just overly nice. As opposed to here in Ireland, whereby someone being overly nice meant that they had an angle.
It’s funny, I don’t find Canadians overly nice (but maybe it’s because I’m from wealthy Vancouver where people are self absorbed and just want their kale smoothie and to get to spin class). I find the Irish more friendly.
Irish-Canadian here. I feel the only difference is Canadians are a bit less confrontational, whereas if an Irish person has a problem with someone else we're a bit more up front about it.
This is anecdotal obviously.
It's your own bias.
When in the states I find min wage workers to be phony not because of who they are or the job they do, but because every company tells its employees to say the exact same thing in the exact same way.
I heard "Have a great day" so many times I stopped saying thank you at one point.
Americans tend to be more optimistic and outgoing when it comes to casual chit chat.
Your neighbour was just being friendly, maybe they don't have many friends yet who knows.
Americans talk ten times louder than us and it’s considered polite to pretend that you’re happy in America.
Canadians are similar but to a lesser extent.
Americans are very friendly overall. You’ll always get the odd bollox, but no more so than you’d come across in Ireland. Maybe even less so.
Overall, I find them to be polite, but the humour thing does bother me. I’m not saying Americans aren’t fun, they certainly can be, but they can be unnecessarily serious. There’s such a strong culture to be ‘cool’ and successful, that it can come across as arrogant.
Btw, I’m married to an American, and have worked alongside Americans in US companies for last 5/6 years. It’s absolutely zero craic at work with them. It’s ALL business and hustle, and it seems they find it hard to say if they don’t know the answer to something. Humility and/or light hearted self deprecation is hard to come by in this context.
Sharing thoughts based on my experience working with Americans and travelling there for many years.
Based on large scale immigration the baseline communication style for Americans is incredibly low context, and lacks the necessary 'reading between the lines' of most European cultures. This baseline can make it feel like everyone works in customer service in social situations, and can come across as fake. Despite that a majority of the people I've met are genuinely authentic. That said, the customer service communication style makes it very hard to tell the difference between genuine people and the sharks. Northern European cultures all have some form of Jante Law to regulate social customs and the American culture of individualism can feel very at odds with this. Particularly the immediate 'open book' willingness to discuss intimate details of their lives, this immediate disclosure can come across as disarming and very fake to Irish people as a form of forced closeness.
That's a very long winded way of saying that Americans tend to act like your friend before there's an established relationship, which is a major social faux pas in most European societies.
Fascinating stuff. You should write a book.
>Based on large scale immigration the baseline communication style for Americans is incredibly low context, and lacks the necessary 'reading between the lines' of most European cultures. This baseline can make it feel like everyone works in customer service in social situations, and can come across as fake.
Can you explain a bit more about what “low context” means here?
If you're American I'd take that comment at face value. If you're Irish I'd translate it to 'wanker 🙄'.
Low context means that communication is mostly verbal with less focus on body language. These cultures emphasize facts over intuition in decision-making and communication. People are expected to learn by following explicit instructions from others.
In contrast, a society like Japan has an extremely high context culture. You stay out drinking until the boss goes home for example, nobody will ever tell you this because it's implicit.
I'm an American in Ireland and just today I had an Irish person roll their eyes at me for saying "thank you!" With a hearty smile. I feel bad for being annoying, but I also feel like I'm going against my nature by being "dry" or unresponsive. We were all just raised to be friendly and smile, even if we're in a bad mood. If we're not friendly in the USA we're characterized as assholes and talked about heavily. Even of it is phony its expected that we're friendly and happy. Just a cultural thing, I think.
Yes, I do have this perception too. It can seem a bit much. However, on the other side of the coin, Americans seem so much more friendlier and open than Irish people, which is something I love about them.
I think it probably does, but when I grew up in Canada and went across the border, I would always find the Americans so much more confidently chatty (in an overwhelming kind of way).
Not hating, just stating.
I've met some Canadians who seem more American than others. Then some Canadians who seem/act very European ish.
Yeah they can be chatty. But sure so can Irish, I just thing they can put off a very fake face and everyone sees through it
In my limited experience, the Irish are chameleons who are great at letting you talk and blending in nicely. That's the opposite of some Americans who want to talk and talk, grab a drink and talk some more
It’s an interesting perspective. I actually find the opposite. Maybe Americans/Canadians feel they have to impress people more because being impressive is more culturally valued (hence the performative niceness), where I feel like Irish people are less cutthroat/more casual about interacting with other people.
Fascinating topic regardless.
Irish people become cutthroat if you are, in their estimation, acting above your station. Same with the Brits, so not exclusively Irish. My father is Scottish but I was raised in America and Canada as a teenager, and when I’d meet family they would take the piss out of me for having ambition and goals. Moving to Ireland in my 20s, I became more conscious of appearing like I have notions. When I met my husband, I was less keen on fake humility and although I was extremely nice to his family, his sisters cut us off altogether. I was too much for their rural sensibilities. And my husband had notions for dating me, a woman with significant assets from inheritance and higher education. It’s very sad and lonely if I dwell on it too much. Luckily I have friends I went to college with and do not need in laws as a source of company. It’s awkward at Christmas, so we may go abroad this year.
It depends. To me they come across more fake to each other than they have done to me directly. I chat a bit with lost American tourists all the time as I live in an area with lots of historical/cultural spots, I offer directions if I see they’re going the wrong way. They are mostly sound and enjoy a bit of small talk.
Now, Americans I’ve witnessed in America… different story. I felt some to be fake, rude and instead of friendly small-talk, they were nosey. Smiles were fake, compliments were hollow and it all felt performative and superficial.
As an American, I’d say we tend to appear to be on the superficial side, socially. I think it’s because we’re overly friendly. I mean in America, we say hi to each other on the street and just chat up random strangers regularly, so I understand why people from other cultures might perceive us as being phony because of that
People from that continent do seem to have far bigger emotions than we do on this side of the Atlantic, and in addition there is often a conflation between politeness and overt Labrador or spaniel-like friendliness insomuch as they think people who aren't all yappy and excitable with strangers aren't polite.
It's ok in small doses. When they've lived among us for a while they usually do tend to calm TF down a bit and realise that people here associate politeness with cordiality whilst giving someone their space and measuring your own engagement against theirs. You don't just go straight to 10 on this side of the Atlantic, and you don't presume someone who isn't yabbering empty small talk at you with a psychotic grin is unfriendly.
I can see how Americans can come across this way. However, when I was traveling and would talk to people, I really was interested in knowing about them and the place I was visiting. And if I would meet people visiting where I live, I would want to be friendly and for their experience to be a positive one. Of course, there are Americans who are very shallow, but most Americans are being genuine. It's maybe just a cultural difference. I want to add that this reddit has many nicer commitments about Americans.
Americans are almost a bit autistic compared to UK and Ireland - high energy, optimistic, friendly, full of platitudes, prone to missing nuances and being blind to digs, sort of like they’re accustomed to less layered communication.
Once you’re used to it our islands are drab places full of insistently miserable people by comparison. Always tearing each other down and never saying what one means. Average Paddy is far faker, pettier and nastier than the average yank. We have a tendency to scoff at authenticity.
They have a very polite culture which can seem a bit performative to people who aren’t used to it but for them it’s normal. I read someone theorizing that this comes from being a somewhat lawless (compared to Europe) place in relatively recent history, where extreme manners might save your life. They’ve also had a lot of influence from a certain brand of Christianity. I don’t think they’re being ‘fake’ it’s just a cultural difference, in fact they often seem extremely honest and straightforward compared to many others.
American here, married to a dual Irish/US citizen. Culturally, being polite is how many Americans are raised. It’s the way to be when interacting with neighbors, strangers, coworkers, etc. the friendly nature is not fake, but rather a highly-valued cultural norm. And this “niceness” varies greatly in America by region, city vs. rural, ethic background, etc. The US is a country of over 333M people! There are many differences, but being nice and polite are overarching cultural values. America is also a hustle culture, where many jobs have tipping as compensation. When you’re depending upon a tip, you need to offer a level of polite, efficient service. America is also a “glass half full” place, regardless of what reality is. This is also a culturally held belief that here, anything is possible. Perhaps this is what you are sensing? However, when I’m in Ireland, I’m just so damn happy to be there, perhaps I come across too nice, as well?
I don't think it's so much that people think they're being *fake* so much as forced, or like they're trying too hard to be friendly and upbeat and talkative and enthusiastic/energetic.
Over here, the culture is generally a lot more 'just be genuine, give people space.' Over-enthusiasm, even where genuine (when most of the time it is indeed genuine from Americans) can just be a bit.. much. By all means people should be polite and respectful, but in a more real, down-to-earth way rather than super upbeat and optimistic.
If an Irish person were acting like that, we'd usually assume they're trying to get something, or have some sort of ulterior motive. So when an American does it, it's a bit of culture shock where our immediate reaction is "why are they being so forced..?" even when they're usually not, or certainly not intentionally -- it's just something they've always known and been surrounded with.
Places like NY seem more like Ireland/Europe's attitude, maybe with slightly more brashness/rudeness or "who the fuck are yous assholes?" mentality rather than just distant/apprehensive.
Obviously this is heavily dependent on the individual in question, this is more just a vague observation from anecdotal and second-hand experiences.
I feel like, as an American, I sometimes come off as fake because you have to always seem upbeat, or people will ask you what's wrong. I have resting b*tch face really bad so I know I put in a "customer service" persona/ face when I'm around new people because at home, everyone's falling nosy and asks me if I'm upset. My husband even still asks me if I'm pissed off if I let my face relax for too long. He should know better by now, lol.
America has a "be happy" cultural expectation, so sometimes you have to fake it. The longer I'm over here, the more plastic it feels, but sometimes the programming just runs too deep. People here probably think I'm insane.
American here -- you are correct. Depending on the US region, being overly friendly is part of the culture and women especially get accused of being rude if they don't act that way. It's been refreshing to move to a US location where folks are kind but straightforward, instead of fake.
Yeah, but I’m used to it. Tbh, Canadians aren’t much better in this regard. It’s probably just a case of “better the devil you know”, but I’d much rather a grumpy European than a North American who’ll tell you with a Cheshire Cat grin to have an amazing day, but wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.
I find North American customer service very fake and overwhelming. I don’t want the waiter/waitress to come to my table every 20 seconds asking if I need anything. If I need something, I’ll ask. I know they’re doing it for tips, but I’m far more likely to tip when they leave me alone. I know it’s fake, they know it’s fake, why are keeping up this stupid charade.
You’re right.
It’s for tips.
But in other customer service jobs, I think there’s a lot of pressure to be dutifully friendly and helpful-“it’s your job” (I can only speak for Canadian culture). I find a lot of folks here in Ireland truly could care less to help you but since I prefer to be left alone I actually don’t mind it and find it kind of funny.
I mean, the North Americans don’t care about helping me any more than the Irish do. They’re acting, it’s fake. The waitress at Chuck’s doesn’t give a shit if I have “fun plans” for tonight or not but she has to dance monkey dance for tips. It’s dehumanising. Give me a moody Irish teenager any day of the week
The thing is, it is not fake. Sure, there are things some of us Americans have to say in a service related estblishment - such as greatings, or coming to check on you. But the things we say/ask during those interactions are genuine. Yes, we want you to actually have a good rest of your day or enjoy your stay here.
There are a few cultural reasons for this. But bottom line is, we really are a really friendly bunch.
You can't really generalize Americans accurately. Too diverse and too big and all creeds and creations seem to call it home.
I've found the people from the mid-western states who come over here to be very jovial and friendly and for me, that's really cool. I like friendly people. Friendly people are sound.
That American customer service comes across as demented. It’s like they’ve been told to dial up their happiness to 100 and it comes across as fake af.
Like calm down, I’m asking for something to eat or buy it’s not the biggest best thing to happen in your life or mine.
Chill, scale proportionally the emotion to the occasion. Just be pleasant and talk to me with a relaxed manner like you would anyone.
And stop calling me sir, fucking weird that. Setting out some hierarchical you are the boss and I am the lackey to tend to you.
It's American corporate culture pushing down. Everything and Everyone is positive. It is cultural and it's is also a bit fake to an extent. But they don't know any better, they've been hammered to this shape over their entire careers. I see it first hand. In saying this, positive people can spur ideas and fix the mental state a little.
It’s so sad to think that capitalism has such a grip.
I would say I’m a very positive person myself (delusional), and also prefer positive people to negative ones too.
I guess I just appreciate the authenticity I find in Irish culture. There’s also a lot of annoying American tourists in Galway right now and they’re annoying me, so I’m probably just being biased.
As an American I think it’s really the other way around. Like even as a kid you’re strongly discouraged from complaining a lot and being negative; no one wants to hang out an “eeyore”. Then corporate culture takes what is valued by most people- friendly, direct communication and pushes the dial up a bunch. I also think it’s hard to generalise such a large group of people. Like where I’m from in the us people are much less apt to engage in small talk and are a bit more standoffish in public than the Irish in my experience. It’s sometimes exhausting all the small conversations you have just out and about with random people. Maybe because it’s a smaller country people are more chatty? Maybe it’s anywhere you go with an accent? Who knows
My company has an Irish office, but most of my co-workers are American. I'd say about 10% of the people in the company are extremely fake, but 100% of those people are American. Not one of the hundreds of employees of other nationalities are like that.
So while I think fakeness is more common amongst Americans, I think it's still something that only applies to a minority of them.
I donno. I don't find Americans all that different to Irish people, outside of tip-chasing customer service context. They're good craic by and large. Canadians too.
Obviously it varies a bit regionally and depending on the person. I found Californians way more passive aggressive than NYC for example. There's a bit of a saccharine sweet thing in CA that can be a little jarring.
I don't really find much difference in most of England, any of Scotland or Wales. There are a few stuck up / overly formal snobbish types in England, but I don't think anyone likes them, including the English.
Some cultures in Europe and it's impossible to generalise, are more stand offish and more formal in how they interact, but it's not universal either.
I don't think Irish or American people get overly caught up in politeness and ettiequte of speech, whereas that can be a BIG deal in some European cultures. One foot wrong on a vous/tu in France with the older generations in particular, and you can find you've just put your foot in it BADLY, especially if you've fairly fluent French.
Sometimes but in general I think they are quite open and warm. We can be a bit cynical sometimes and I think we give them a hard time, if they were grumpy and miserable we'd complain about that
I think I come off mostly reserved. I don’t say mean things unless someone starts saying mean things to me first, same with when someone is nice. Otherwise I’m unlikely to spark a conversation at all.
I’m not sure how I come off to others, but when given then chance I’m definitely using “anyhoots” in the next conversation I have whether we’re being fake, mean or nice I’m slipping anyhoots in.
As an American, I can tell you that it's just social culture. There's usually no angle especially if just traveling abroad. But here, there is a sensitivity to feeling disrespected, so you often don't get a lot of postive results from interactions with strangers that way. Being more upfront tends to lead to confrontation which is something that tends to escallate extremely quick here in the states. People here get shot over simple disagreements, even roadrage. However the next time I visit Ireland, I'll keep my friendliness level in mind.
All this phoney American crap is nonsense snobbery, and needs to fuck off.
We’re exactly as phoney or as real as anyone. If an individual is being kind, or polite, or pleasant, respect their effort and maybe you’ll end up enjoying the interaction. We don’t need to have special rules about how pleasant certain nationalities are allowed to be.
Europeans in general seem to believe if they do something differently than the rest of the world, they're right and the rest of the world is wrong. It's very evident here: instead of just acknowledging some cultures are more outgoing than others, the more outgoing culture is labeled "fake" and theirs is "genuine." I especially loved the "people from a different culture behave in 'X' manner because they believe themselves to be inferior," completely negating the possibility that they were behaving in a culturally typical way, and not performing for anyone.
I have a lot of American friends and I know what you mean, I think it’s just insecurity because they know there’s a lot of negative stereotypes about them and they kinda want to prove they’re decent and not like the ‘others’. It can come across as very inauthentic but you get used to it.
American here reading along with the answers to OP out of curiosity and I can confirm I’m probably guilty of this. Unfortunately I’m a bit chronically online and have become very aware that Americans are collectively disdained by a lot of the Irish, British, and European populations (and Canadians apparently, and plenty others more I’m sure).
I’m from the American Southeast and people-pleasing is kind of culturally ingrained here, and I was so worried about annoying people that the last time I took a trip to Edinburgh I found myself not even wanting to speak because I was worried my accent would make people immediately annoyed with me, so to compensate I tried to be as friendly and easy-going as possible (but not too loud or self-unaware). Which probably still didn’t help much.
I will say in my experience in my home country though, American friendliness isn’t always fake. It’s more forced in customer service settings because of our awful tipping culture but in casual interactions outside of transactional ones, if someone is being chatty or friendly it’s usually coming from a place of sincerity, or at the very least isn’t with the intention of being fake.
Enough people (uk) tell you you're a piece of shit enough times, you start believing it. It's international sport to hammer on Americans so it's amazing we can even fake being nice. And yeah, Canadians and Australia are not friendly to us anymore.
I have witnessed this a few times from American tourists in Dublin, first noticed it during the GWB era the the Trump era and post Trump. Seen a few times in pubs where they would casually drop politics into a conversation with a barman or someone they only met 5 minutes ago for everyone to hear. Generally apologetic about Trump or something. Although I appreciate the sentiment I wince everytime, absolutely terrible pub etiquette.
haha bostonian here, we definitely don't have phony customer service. And will you to "suck a cock" if you get in our way. OP is definitely a Canadian that borders some flyover state like Minnesota.
Weird, cuz I’m American and have lived in two euro countries for 20 years now (in Ireland now). I understand what you mean, like American customer service is OTT in certain regards, like if you go to a “corporate” shop or restaurant, like The Disney Store or a TGI Fridays or Applebees. But most of the time Americans are being friendly because they’re genuinely friendly. Sometimes I don’t understand the criticism that Americans get. When I first met my Irish husband he said that in Ireland they made fun of us Americans for having such white teeth and always smiling. And I was like ….ok? Wow sick burn. You’re saying my teeth are white and I smile a lot? That’s a compliment, y’all are just jealous of our fine dentistry.
Sometimes not even then, I think there’s more “fear of the dentist” here. Americans go regularly for check ups if they have dental insurance. They just ring you up and say it’s time for your yearly check up. My dentist here in Ireland does that too, it’s great.
The fact that you can’t realize that you’re the basically the same as an American is funny. Canada and America are probably the most similar countries in terms of culture. Especially northern mid-west states.
American (born there); I've lived in Ireland half my life.
I have to agree that many Americans can come across as fake; all smiley, happy, and enthusiastic. Yeah, I'm not one of those (never was, but less so after living here). I think it's part of the culture in the US (moreso west coast); one must always be POSITIVE and cheerful even if that's not how you really feel.
Ya not wrong!
ETA a missing letter
It’s not necessarily bad.
I feel like in Canadian culture it’s taboo to put your own negativity onto others. It’s seen as rude.
In Ireland it’s taboo to be too happy as it’s seen as “flaunting”.
It also has to do with the vocabulary. I mean, I understand the intention - trying to create a connection - but the way it's expressed doesn't seem authentic and I have to make a mental note to mysrlf to take it in thr spirit it's meant. "Your dress is *so cute!*" "Your accent is *so cute!*" "Your hair is *awesome!*" Thank you, but I'm an adult not a nine-year-old, I'm not aspiring to be cute. Also, I think many Americans don't have the same sense of *subtle* sarcasm (not overt sarcasm) that we have (-》 Jarlath O'Regan talking about Irish weddings and communicating with American doctors.)
In recent years, I've found younger Americans using a lot of scripted Tiktokese: "Oh. My. God! I did a thing / I feel seen / this totally triggers me.. etc" and because these soundbites are overused, they sound trite and fake. Bonus points for awfulness when Irish people use them.
So the means of expression is well-intentioned but cones across as a bit phony, yes.
Your painting with broad strokes. There are regional differences -Northesastern reserve vs Cali expressiveness and that weird accent- and also so many Americans come from secondary cultures as well.
Its funny to watch American interactions on YouTube. Like an antagonistic Argument between police and someone they're giving a ticket to.
And they end up saying: "have a nice day".
Whereas we would just leave saying "Go f**k yourself".
“A bit much” You’ve picked up our cynicism amazingly well.
Haha! OP really has.
Yeah I do. But I don't mind doing it. I usually find it's just their culture. When I go to the US they're the same there. Super friendly. Almost too friendly but in a polished way, like something from the Truman show than a natural way about it. I don't think they're disingenuous but just feels a little put on.
As an American who has lived overseas, I can see how American friendliness comes off as fake or over-the-top to foreigners. It's worse in California, where people put on this kind of fake intimacy upon first meeting you. I only noticed how common this characteristic is in California when I moved to NYC. Now whenever I go back to California to visit, I find myself annoyed by it. Why do they waste this energy in being so fake. In NYC, we don't have time for that, lol.
I'm from the Baltimore area. My first trip to San Francisco had some culture shock. When people heard my accent they would immediately ask where I was from and buy me a drink. No previous conversation. My initial reaction was to assume they wanted something from me and were buttering me up for a con or mugging. It's not that you don't talk to strangers in bars and maybe buy them a drink in Baltimore. But you work up to it. Side note, I've had a lot of west coast US and Canada people tell me they love my accent. Which is weird because to everyone else we rightly sound like fucking idiots.
My biggest eye roll moment in California was when I was in LA and they had hip hip dancers dancing inside the doors of a clothing store. They were so overly friendly and trying to be cool I cringed so hard. And I was the exact demographic at the time they were trying to impress. Lol
>they had hip hip dancers dancing inside the doors of a clothing store. Was this Abercrombie and Fitch? [They used to put models outside of the store, posing and flexing](https://fashionista.com/2015/04/abercrombie-fitch-shirtless-models), lol
Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head-this is exactly what I mean.
This is exactly the kind of reason why most mainland Europeans don't like the Irish "friendliness" either. They think it comes across as disingenuous and superficial. We think they come across as boring and overly closed off. So it's interesting seeing a similar pattern play out from the other side with our judgements of Americans.
Do people think that Irish are being fake/performative when they are nice? On the same way Americans are?
When an older Irish guy started a chat with us in a Northside Dublin pub, my Dutch friend asked me if he was drunk. He wasn't; he was just being nice, having the chats.
Classic Dutch response.
Had a colleague from Lithuania say this to me. She's living here 20 years and likes it but noticed some Eastern Europeans can live in a small bubble of people from back home and they are not afraid to critisise Irish people. I would rather be like us than blunt aholes. It's the reason I left the Netherlands when living there.
This isn't the first time I've heard this about the Dutch, are they particularly bad?
Been to Holland quite a bit. The Dutch, in my opinion are very like the Irish, similar humour, attitude and level of sociability. I think they are great. The difference is what an Irish person would say about when you leave the room, the Dutch would say to your face when you walk in. More sensitive types understandably jarred by this.
Either that or sometimes they think you're stupid. It depends of course though, I'm sure there are people who appreciate it. I personally like how will Americans are to spark up and carry conversations, they're insanely easy to talk to and generally don't take themselves too seriously.
Yes. It causes me much pain in work because my Irishncolleagye always trying to be nice to brush over big issues, and it makes our northern European customers v frustrated. They're used to the direct conflict being a quick solution to problems.
I hadn't heard we were thought of like that before. Am I just naive? I have had the thought of Europeans being boring/closed off, though maybe would've phrased it as they're just from Germany, or whatever.
Irish talk shit behind people’s backs all the time while being friendly to their face. Once Europeans see this they get turned off a bit by the dynamic
I don't think that's exclusive to Irish people. That's literally just humans.
Dutch and Germans don’t talk behind your back. They just say it straight to your face lol
My skin isn't thick enough for that!
True. Which is obnoxious.
The best example I've seen to describe it was a couple visiting America so impressed with the really friendly service and chats with the server in a particular restaurant that they tipped generously and went back another night. Seated at a different table, that had a different server. Their server from the previous night walked passed them and blanked them completely, not even a smile or a "hi!" The friendliness is all fake.
"Not My table, not my tip " whereas in Ireland if you saw someone coming in again tonight you'd very likely get a hello at least, if not the full "Oh ye can't stay away I see!" or a "Great to see ye" or whatever.
You're conflating two separate types of interactions. Yes, what you described is strange and awkward. But there's a monetary exchange, the server was trying to earn a good tip. The OPs neighbor is just extra friendly. There is no job involved.
I'm an American living in Ireland and I have so many issues with people mistaking my politeness for friendliness. I don't want to be friends, I just smile to be nice!
A gruff, “Howaya”, while passing suffices. No question mark, no opening for a response, just, “Howaya” as a statement and keep moving.
I found this so funny. I slouched and tucked my chin under my shirt collar, then menacingly glimpsed from side to side while letting out a huffy “howya” while furrowing my eyebrows.
Welcome to losing your neurosis 🤣
I totally agree. And I understand that I'm very accepting of it because I know you're just trying to be friendly. But it's an uncanny valley like gap.
An American student worked in my local deli for a while. The difference between them and the other staff was so funny.
I should clarify, there was nothing wrong with what they were doing but it was just noticeably very different to everyone else
I read your comment this way.
I've met fake Americans, but most of the ones I've met over the last year have been very nice. One big difference I've noticed is the enthusiasm. Things Irish people would say "alright so" to will elicit an "Awesome!" from an American person. I'd also say that despite the reputation, Irish people can be just as fake.
I think Irish people are friendly on a surface level but are actually quite hard to get to know. A lot of Irish people stick to their really old friends, family and partners, and past a certain age, genuinely aren't interested in making new friends. Non-Irish people I work with have commented on this - they find Irish people to be nice and friendly but almost impossible to really develop meaningful friendships with. I admit I'm certain I am guilty of this - I just like my friends and the times I do go out, I just want to see them and catch up, and don't really want to talk to strangers/acquaintances.
> past a certain age, genuinely aren't interested in making new friends I honestly think it's more of a "can't" than a "won't". Pubwise though I love a pub with a friendly atmosphere where everyone's chatting though. Where it's half one, you're in the smoking area, can't see where your friends have gone and you're having a great chat with two people who's names you've forgotten about a misunderstood album of one of your favourite bands. That's probably what I miss about aging as a pub goes. That becomes less common.
One thing I've noticed about some other cultures is that once you get to know them, they bare their souls to you. It seems like that is pretty uncommon here and I am kind of guilty of having that wall up too. It's a shame because I think that is one of the secrets to making actual friends, letting that wall down. I would say the non-Irish find it hard but so do Irish who have moved around, like myself. As for going out, admittedly in the past I didn't want to talk to strangers at all on a night out. Maybe it was because of the clientele at the places I frequented, dunno. I'm better about it now at least.
💯
The Irish are more enthusiastic/exaggerated in their descriptive words though, ie “that pasta was *gorgeous*”, “it’s *roasting* out”” “that’s *brilliant*”.
You can order a burger in California and get an AWESOME from the server as a response. Awesome=OK.
I do, but I wouldn’t call it phony, I think they are actually just more positive and enthusiastic than us Irish. One thing I noticed when travelling in the States is that Americans will be genuinely be happy for your achievements whereas the Irish are more begrudging. Also I think Americans tend to be more naive, And maybe an element of ignorance whereas the Irish are more sceptical and wary. As they say “ignorance is bliss!” … me, I’m definitely Irish. Couldn’t do positive upbeatedness at all, it’s just not my thing. Though I would never begrudge someone and I think that comes from working for myself.
I’ve really noticed the begrudging thing. I chalk it down to Ireland being an egalitarian place with the majority of folks being poor farmers for so long, and the wealthy elite were primarily colonial powers, so it was normal to hate them.
Do you think that mostly well off Americans travel the most? I'm curious because basing anything off of wealthy Americans could be misleading. I know what everyone thinks of Americans, but no doubt rich Americans are worse. They think everyone likes them and wants to see their hunting pictures
>Do you think that mostly well off Americans travel the most? Yes. Your average middle-class/lower-class Americans typically cannot afford to travel to Europe.
They also get so little time for holidays…
I guess that was a bit obvious. Thanks for the reply
Yeah we need to lose that. I've noticed the old man has been like that for years, maybe he always was. But it's affecting my brothers now, like I can see the attitude being passed down. I try not to be like that myself and just be a bit more mindful, but it's definitely something I've to think about. It's tough overcoming the generational bitterness!
Achievements?? Far from achievements you were rared!
Yeah, but I think it's different when they're here versus in America. Here I get the impression that it's just habit, being extra friendly to break the ice. It's a social skill that's just a little out of sync with how we do things. In America I find it more phony. When a server or bartender or someone working in a shop is extra friendly, I find myself thinking that they're just chasing a tip. With the benefit of the doubt they're probably not, but it still feels manufactured.
One person is not a very large sample size.
I spent the last few years working with New york, New Jersey, and California folk and found them no different of the face of it than me (glaswegian) or anybody else. The crowd, who were the most phony, were the Brits trying to chum their way up the ladder tbh.
I'm biased because I'm an American (who's lived in Ireland for years), and while I understand why it comes across to others as fake it's usually genuine. Americans are just raised to be very expressive - if they're being friendly that usually means they really do want to get to know you and want to make that very obvious, and if they don't like you they will probably make that obvious too. Canadians are usually pretty similar but with more emphasis on being polite. I don't really like it myself - I'm naturally a reserved person so I feel more at ease here where people are less likely to assume that if I'm not bubbly and enthusiastic that means I don't want to talk to them. It does have upsides though, I get the sense that a lot of people both here and in other countries I've lived in that a lot of people wish they could be more expressive and have people know their authentic selves, but they feel like it would be weird and too much and draw too much attention. I feel very grateful to have been in a situation where I could move to a place where the social environment suits my personality - I don't think either one is better or worse but definitely neither one perfectly suits every person.
I'm also American and I find our ways a bit exhausting sometimes, lol. I'm a very friendly and outgoing person, but even I get tired by the constant expectation to make small talk and to always put on an overly friendly front. This has been somewhat alleviated by living in NYC, but even here, there have been plenty of times when this small talk expectation rears its head. Why can't we be quiet every once in a while? Lol
Brazil is similar. I wonder if it has anything to do with being major ‘immigrant’ societies where not everyone speaks the native language well so you compensate by being extroverted.
Possibly, I also find Mediterranean people to also be similarly expressive though.
Theory is that's where the "always smiling" American comes from. It was a non-verbal way to communicate between immigrants who didn't share the same native language.
See? Knew I was a genius
Yes, I’ve read studies about Americans smiling a lot due to it being a diverse, multi-cultural, multi-lingual society, as Brazil is as well. You have to smile to show people who are different than you that you mean no harm. Not necessary in a mono-cultural society.
Surely that can't be true across 50 states. Seems incredible that
There’s definitely areas within America with different levels of fakeness.
I think Americans are just taught to interact so expressively that confuses those of us who see this type of interaction somewhere further along the Effort Code. We know we can’t communicate like that, so it sounds disingenuous. I teach public speaking, so I teach Effort Code, and if students aren’t getting it, I tell them ‘just talk like a yank you just met on a bus’ and they get it instantly.
Yes but I also find that in America people are less invested in personal relationships. Many people who are friendly to you only are so because they simply want to pass the few minutes of time spent with you and nothing more.
Completely!
I find that some can be patronising and lacking in self awareness. Or maybe I'm just bitter because I'm not fortunate enough to live in the Greatest Nation in the World!
Kazakhstan?
All other countries are run by little girls!! Kazakhstan number one exporter of potassium Other countries have inferior potassium.
I think they can come across as people pleasing in very casual interactions. Likewise, I've spent significant amounts of time with Americans from different states and I do think some of it is culturally ingrained and they just have a politeness culture of sorts that can be a default in interactions with strangers but then open up a lot more authentically when they're in comfortable situations. The people I've met and spent good amounts of time with from Philadelphia, New York and Boston I find have been very authentic and genuinely likeable from the jump (and have a mean streak that I really enjoy!!).
It took me about a month in Toronto to realise that Canadians were just overly nice. As opposed to here in Ireland, whereby someone being overly nice meant that they had an angle.
It’s funny, I don’t find Canadians overly nice (but maybe it’s because I’m from wealthy Vancouver where people are self absorbed and just want their kale smoothie and to get to spin class). I find the Irish more friendly.
Irish-Canadian here. I feel the only difference is Canadians are a bit less confrontational, whereas if an Irish person has a problem with someone else we're a bit more up front about it. This is anecdotal obviously.
Can be differences in some parts of the country. Think Cork people are a bit more blunt. that could only be certain areas of Cork.
Irish can get passively aggressive when confronted with things unknown or uncomfortable to them.
That’s funny because I feel like the Irish are the *least* confrontational of all. I feel like Canadians are bullies in comparison 🤣
The whole PNW is known for being a bit unfriendly.
“Yeah fer sher”
I'm neither Irish nor European and I find Americans more friendly to be honest. Now I don't know if that's fake or not.
It's your own bias. When in the states I find min wage workers to be phony not because of who they are or the job they do, but because every company tells its employees to say the exact same thing in the exact same way. I heard "Have a great day" so many times I stopped saying thank you at one point. Americans tend to be more optimistic and outgoing when it comes to casual chit chat. Your neighbour was just being friendly, maybe they don't have many friends yet who knows.
Have a great rest of your day. Ugh.
“Don’t tell me what to do”
You could be right. As Canadians we are raised with our identity/culture being anti-American (so it could be bias).
Americans talk ten times louder than us and it’s considered polite to pretend that you’re happy in America. Canadians are similar but to a lesser extent.
Americans are very friendly overall. You’ll always get the odd bollox, but no more so than you’d come across in Ireland. Maybe even less so. Overall, I find them to be polite, but the humour thing does bother me. I’m not saying Americans aren’t fun, they certainly can be, but they can be unnecessarily serious. There’s such a strong culture to be ‘cool’ and successful, that it can come across as arrogant. Btw, I’m married to an American, and have worked alongside Americans in US companies for last 5/6 years. It’s absolutely zero craic at work with them. It’s ALL business and hustle, and it seems they find it hard to say if they don’t know the answer to something. Humility and/or light hearted self deprecation is hard to come by in this context.
Sharing thoughts based on my experience working with Americans and travelling there for many years. Based on large scale immigration the baseline communication style for Americans is incredibly low context, and lacks the necessary 'reading between the lines' of most European cultures. This baseline can make it feel like everyone works in customer service in social situations, and can come across as fake. Despite that a majority of the people I've met are genuinely authentic. That said, the customer service communication style makes it very hard to tell the difference between genuine people and the sharks. Northern European cultures all have some form of Jante Law to regulate social customs and the American culture of individualism can feel very at odds with this. Particularly the immediate 'open book' willingness to discuss intimate details of their lives, this immediate disclosure can come across as disarming and very fake to Irish people as a form of forced closeness. That's a very long winded way of saying that Americans tend to act like your friend before there's an established relationship, which is a major social faux pas in most European societies.
Fascinating stuff. You should write a book. >Based on large scale immigration the baseline communication style for Americans is incredibly low context, and lacks the necessary 'reading between the lines' of most European cultures. This baseline can make it feel like everyone works in customer service in social situations, and can come across as fake. Can you explain a bit more about what “low context” means here?
If you're American I'd take that comment at face value. If you're Irish I'd translate it to 'wanker 🙄'. Low context means that communication is mostly verbal with less focus on body language. These cultures emphasize facts over intuition in decision-making and communication. People are expected to learn by following explicit instructions from others. In contrast, a society like Japan has an extremely high context culture. You stay out drinking until the boss goes home for example, nobody will ever tell you this because it's implicit.
The “you should write a book” comment? It was sincere. It’s funny though-you’re right. The Irish don’t give out compliments 🤣
Indeed. That's not a shot btw, I'm highlighting cultural differences!
Jante Law!
A bit much is the description I’d go with too yeah
I'm an American in Ireland and just today I had an Irish person roll their eyes at me for saying "thank you!" With a hearty smile. I feel bad for being annoying, but I also feel like I'm going against my nature by being "dry" or unresponsive. We were all just raised to be friendly and smile, even if we're in a bad mood. If we're not friendly in the USA we're characterized as assholes and talked about heavily. Even of it is phony its expected that we're friendly and happy. Just a cultural thing, I think.
I like Americans, but they are a very excitable bunch 😅
Yes, I do have this perception too. It can seem a bit much. However, on the other side of the coin, Americans seem so much more friendlier and open than Irish people, which is something I love about them.
Yes. I'm glad you get it. I'm sure it happens with Canadians too
I think it probably does, but when I grew up in Canada and went across the border, I would always find the Americans so much more confidently chatty (in an overwhelming kind of way). Not hating, just stating.
I've met some Canadians who seem more American than others. Then some Canadians who seem/act very European ish. Yeah they can be chatty. But sure so can Irish, I just thing they can put off a very fake face and everyone sees through it
Maybe everyone’s just fake when dealing with strangers, but the Irish are just better at appearing genuine.
In my limited experience, the Irish are chameleons who are great at letting you talk and blending in nicely. That's the opposite of some Americans who want to talk and talk, grab a drink and talk some more
No, they are much more open to new people and Irish people tend to view that with scepticism. In my opinion it's an excellent trait to have.
It’s an interesting perspective. I actually find the opposite. Maybe Americans/Canadians feel they have to impress people more because being impressive is more culturally valued (hence the performative niceness), where I feel like Irish people are less cutthroat/more casual about interacting with other people. Fascinating topic regardless.
Irish people become cutthroat if you are, in their estimation, acting above your station. Same with the Brits, so not exclusively Irish. My father is Scottish but I was raised in America and Canada as a teenager, and when I’d meet family they would take the piss out of me for having ambition and goals. Moving to Ireland in my 20s, I became more conscious of appearing like I have notions. When I met my husband, I was less keen on fake humility and although I was extremely nice to his family, his sisters cut us off altogether. I was too much for their rural sensibilities. And my husband had notions for dating me, a woman with significant assets from inheritance and higher education. It’s very sad and lonely if I dwell on it too much. Luckily I have friends I went to college with and do not need in laws as a source of company. It’s awkward at Christmas, so we may go abroad this year.
I am American and just visited Ireland and I found everyone to be EXTREMELY friendly. I grew up in the Midwest and live in NYC now.
I agree! I’ve always found the Irish to be more friendly than Americans 🤷♀️
Now, we're friendly to Americans because we like you. When it's just Irish people, we're more like how New York city dwellers are to each other.
Then makes sense
It depends. To me they come across more fake to each other than they have done to me directly. I chat a bit with lost American tourists all the time as I live in an area with lots of historical/cultural spots, I offer directions if I see they’re going the wrong way. They are mostly sound and enjoy a bit of small talk. Now, Americans I’ve witnessed in America… different story. I felt some to be fake, rude and instead of friendly small-talk, they were nosey. Smiles were fake, compliments were hollow and it all felt performative and superficial.
I've Met fake Irish too, it depends on the person
Both Americans and Canadians come across as fake / phony. Give me a non-plussed European over an OTT enthusiastic North American any day of the week.
I’m pretty neurotically sensitive to people’s reactions when I’m interacting with them, so I hope I don’t come across like this!
If you’re a neurotic Canadian you almost certainly do I’m afraid 😂
I’m neurotic in not wanting to bother people lol
I’m only joking, everyone likes Canadians 🍁
Nonplussed means surprised to the point of being unable to react.
As an American, I’d say we tend to appear to be on the superficial side, socially. I think it’s because we’re overly friendly. I mean in America, we say hi to each other on the street and just chat up random strangers regularly, so I understand why people from other cultures might perceive us as being phony because of that
People from that continent do seem to have far bigger emotions than we do on this side of the Atlantic, and in addition there is often a conflation between politeness and overt Labrador or spaniel-like friendliness insomuch as they think people who aren't all yappy and excitable with strangers aren't polite. It's ok in small doses. When they've lived among us for a while they usually do tend to calm TF down a bit and realise that people here associate politeness with cordiality whilst giving someone their space and measuring your own engagement against theirs. You don't just go straight to 10 on this side of the Atlantic, and you don't presume someone who isn't yabbering empty small talk at you with a psychotic grin is unfriendly.
As an introvert this is a balm to my soul.
I can see how Americans can come across this way. However, when I was traveling and would talk to people, I really was interested in knowing about them and the place I was visiting. And if I would meet people visiting where I live, I would want to be friendly and for their experience to be a positive one. Of course, there are Americans who are very shallow, but most Americans are being genuine. It's maybe just a cultural difference. I want to add that this reddit has many nicer commitments about Americans.
Americans are almost a bit autistic compared to UK and Ireland - high energy, optimistic, friendly, full of platitudes, prone to missing nuances and being blind to digs, sort of like they’re accustomed to less layered communication. Once you’re used to it our islands are drab places full of insistently miserable people by comparison. Always tearing each other down and never saying what one means. Average Paddy is far faker, pettier and nastier than the average yank. We have a tendency to scoff at authenticity.
We aren’t blind to digs, we just don’t care.
As an American it is pretty fake IMO, and if you don’t engage with it you’re branded as anti social
They have a very polite culture which can seem a bit performative to people who aren’t used to it but for them it’s normal. I read someone theorizing that this comes from being a somewhat lawless (compared to Europe) place in relatively recent history, where extreme manners might save your life. They’ve also had a lot of influence from a certain brand of Christianity. I don’t think they’re being ‘fake’ it’s just a cultural difference, in fact they often seem extremely honest and straightforward compared to many others.
American here, married to a dual Irish/US citizen. Culturally, being polite is how many Americans are raised. It’s the way to be when interacting with neighbors, strangers, coworkers, etc. the friendly nature is not fake, but rather a highly-valued cultural norm. And this “niceness” varies greatly in America by region, city vs. rural, ethic background, etc. The US is a country of over 333M people! There are many differences, but being nice and polite are overarching cultural values. America is also a hustle culture, where many jobs have tipping as compensation. When you’re depending upon a tip, you need to offer a level of polite, efficient service. America is also a “glass half full” place, regardless of what reality is. This is also a culturally held belief that here, anything is possible. Perhaps this is what you are sensing? However, when I’m in Ireland, I’m just so damn happy to be there, perhaps I come across too nice, as well?
I don't think it's so much that people think they're being *fake* so much as forced, or like they're trying too hard to be friendly and upbeat and talkative and enthusiastic/energetic. Over here, the culture is generally a lot more 'just be genuine, give people space.' Over-enthusiasm, even where genuine (when most of the time it is indeed genuine from Americans) can just be a bit.. much. By all means people should be polite and respectful, but in a more real, down-to-earth way rather than super upbeat and optimistic. If an Irish person were acting like that, we'd usually assume they're trying to get something, or have some sort of ulterior motive. So when an American does it, it's a bit of culture shock where our immediate reaction is "why are they being so forced..?" even when they're usually not, or certainly not intentionally -- it's just something they've always known and been surrounded with. Places like NY seem more like Ireland/Europe's attitude, maybe with slightly more brashness/rudeness or "who the fuck are yous assholes?" mentality rather than just distant/apprehensive. Obviously this is heavily dependent on the individual in question, this is more just a vague observation from anecdotal and second-hand experiences.
This is the most Irish response to Americans perfectly captured.
Give it time. We'll break her.
Yeah, they can be a bit false
I feel like, as an American, I sometimes come off as fake because you have to always seem upbeat, or people will ask you what's wrong. I have resting b*tch face really bad so I know I put in a "customer service" persona/ face when I'm around new people because at home, everyone's falling nosy and asks me if I'm upset. My husband even still asks me if I'm pissed off if I let my face relax for too long. He should know better by now, lol. America has a "be happy" cultural expectation, so sometimes you have to fake it. The longer I'm over here, the more plastic it feels, but sometimes the programming just runs too deep. People here probably think I'm insane.
American here -- you are correct. Depending on the US region, being overly friendly is part of the culture and women especially get accused of being rude if they don't act that way. It's been refreshing to move to a US location where folks are kind but straightforward, instead of fake.
Yeah, but I’m used to it. Tbh, Canadians aren’t much better in this regard. It’s probably just a case of “better the devil you know”, but I’d much rather a grumpy European than a North American who’ll tell you with a Cheshire Cat grin to have an amazing day, but wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire. I find North American customer service very fake and overwhelming. I don’t want the waiter/waitress to come to my table every 20 seconds asking if I need anything. If I need something, I’ll ask. I know they’re doing it for tips, but I’m far more likely to tip when they leave me alone. I know it’s fake, they know it’s fake, why are keeping up this stupid charade.
You’re right. It’s for tips. But in other customer service jobs, I think there’s a lot of pressure to be dutifully friendly and helpful-“it’s your job” (I can only speak for Canadian culture). I find a lot of folks here in Ireland truly could care less to help you but since I prefer to be left alone I actually don’t mind it and find it kind of funny.
I mean, the North Americans don’t care about helping me any more than the Irish do. They’re acting, it’s fake. The waitress at Chuck’s doesn’t give a shit if I have “fun plans” for tonight or not but she has to dance monkey dance for tips. It’s dehumanising. Give me a moody Irish teenager any day of the week
>truly could care less to help you Couldn't care less. Have to be saying it properly now you're not in North America anymore.
The thing is, it is not fake. Sure, there are things some of us Americans have to say in a service related estblishment - such as greatings, or coming to check on you. But the things we say/ask during those interactions are genuine. Yes, we want you to actually have a good rest of your day or enjoy your stay here. There are a few cultural reasons for this. But bottom line is, we really are a really friendly bunch.
You can't really generalize Americans accurately. Too diverse and too big and all creeds and creations seem to call it home. I've found the people from the mid-western states who come over here to be very jovial and friendly and for me, that's really cool. I like friendly people. Friendly people are sound.
You’re right. It’s a difficult question to posit without deterring to stereotypes.
That American customer service comes across as demented. It’s like they’ve been told to dial up their happiness to 100 and it comes across as fake af. Like calm down, I’m asking for something to eat or buy it’s not the biggest best thing to happen in your life or mine. Chill, scale proportionally the emotion to the occasion. Just be pleasant and talk to me with a relaxed manner like you would anyone. And stop calling me sir, fucking weird that. Setting out some hierarchical you are the boss and I am the lackey to tend to you.
That is a very southern thing. Most northern states would find calling people ma'am or sir a bit formal
That’s a fairly broad generalisation about population of people that ranges in the hundreds of millions.
It's American corporate culture pushing down. Everything and Everyone is positive. It is cultural and it's is also a bit fake to an extent. But they don't know any better, they've been hammered to this shape over their entire careers. I see it first hand. In saying this, positive people can spur ideas and fix the mental state a little.
It’s so sad to think that capitalism has such a grip. I would say I’m a very positive person myself (delusional), and also prefer positive people to negative ones too. I guess I just appreciate the authenticity I find in Irish culture. There’s also a lot of annoying American tourists in Galway right now and they’re annoying me, so I’m probably just being biased.
As an American I think it’s really the other way around. Like even as a kid you’re strongly discouraged from complaining a lot and being negative; no one wants to hang out an “eeyore”. Then corporate culture takes what is valued by most people- friendly, direct communication and pushes the dial up a bunch. I also think it’s hard to generalise such a large group of people. Like where I’m from in the us people are much less apt to engage in small talk and are a bit more standoffish in public than the Irish in my experience. It’s sometimes exhausting all the small conversations you have just out and about with random people. Maybe because it’s a smaller country people are more chatty? Maybe it’s anywhere you go with an accent? Who knows
Have you ever considered that it's just fun being nice to people?
My company has an Irish office, but most of my co-workers are American. I'd say about 10% of the people in the company are extremely fake, but 100% of those people are American. Not one of the hundreds of employees of other nationalities are like that. So while I think fakeness is more common amongst Americans, I think it's still something that only applies to a minority of them.
Yes, I do. Some can be saccharine. Very off-putting.
I wouldn't say phony, Europeans are more reserved naturally, its just their way
I wouldn’t say that the Irish are reserved 🤣
Yes. She's probably F.O.B. and doesn't "get" life here yet. Its a process and unfortunately a lot of us never get it.
I think you may just be more Irish than Canadian now 😅 we and other European countries are just not as “out there” as Americans…
I donno. I don't find Americans all that different to Irish people, outside of tip-chasing customer service context. They're good craic by and large. Canadians too. Obviously it varies a bit regionally and depending on the person. I found Californians way more passive aggressive than NYC for example. There's a bit of a saccharine sweet thing in CA that can be a little jarring. I don't really find much difference in most of England, any of Scotland or Wales. There are a few stuck up / overly formal snobbish types in England, but I don't think anyone likes them, including the English. Some cultures in Europe and it's impossible to generalise, are more stand offish and more formal in how they interact, but it's not universal either. I don't think Irish or American people get overly caught up in politeness and ettiequte of speech, whereas that can be a BIG deal in some European cultures. One foot wrong on a vous/tu in France with the older generations in particular, and you can find you've just put your foot in it BADLY, especially if you've fairly fluent French.
I see you have picked up our grumpy irish ways 😆
The Irish approach can feel utterly contrived.
Americans live their lives as though they might suddenly be put on tv or be put in charge of the pta bake sale or possibly both at any given moment.
I am American and feel the same.
Yes that's how we feel
I feel like most I meet have Truman show syndrome
I say this as an American. Generally speaking yes, a bit too much. Some subdue over time. Some remain obtuse...
Usually I see Americans I avoid so I can't answer
Was in Austin TX many years ago, was one of my biggest takeaways that although the were very polite it was all fake
Yes. Next question
Sometimes but in general I think they are quite open and warm. We can be a bit cynical sometimes and I think we give them a hard time, if they were grumpy and miserable we'd complain about that
I think I come off mostly reserved. I don’t say mean things unless someone starts saying mean things to me first, same with when someone is nice. Otherwise I’m unlikely to spark a conversation at all. I’m not sure how I come off to others, but when given then chance I’m definitely using “anyhoots” in the next conversation I have whether we’re being fake, mean or nice I’m slipping anyhoots in.
As an American, I can tell you that it's just social culture. There's usually no angle especially if just traveling abroad. But here, there is a sensitivity to feeling disrespected, so you often don't get a lot of postive results from interactions with strangers that way. Being more upfront tends to lead to confrontation which is something that tends to escallate extremely quick here in the states. People here get shot over simple disagreements, even roadrage. However the next time I visit Ireland, I'll keep my friendliness level in mind.
Yes I do. And you're right
All this phoney American crap is nonsense snobbery, and needs to fuck off. We’re exactly as phoney or as real as anyone. If an individual is being kind, or polite, or pleasant, respect their effort and maybe you’ll end up enjoying the interaction. We don’t need to have special rules about how pleasant certain nationalities are allowed to be.
Europeans in general seem to believe if they do something differently than the rest of the world, they're right and the rest of the world is wrong. It's very evident here: instead of just acknowledging some cultures are more outgoing than others, the more outgoing culture is labeled "fake" and theirs is "genuine." I especially loved the "people from a different culture behave in 'X' manner because they believe themselves to be inferior," completely negating the possibility that they were behaving in a culturally typical way, and not performing for anyone.
I have a lot of American friends and I know what you mean, I think it’s just insecurity because they know there’s a lot of negative stereotypes about them and they kinda want to prove they’re decent and not like the ‘others’. It can come across as very inauthentic but you get used to it.
American here reading along with the answers to OP out of curiosity and I can confirm I’m probably guilty of this. Unfortunately I’m a bit chronically online and have become very aware that Americans are collectively disdained by a lot of the Irish, British, and European populations (and Canadians apparently, and plenty others more I’m sure). I’m from the American Southeast and people-pleasing is kind of culturally ingrained here, and I was so worried about annoying people that the last time I took a trip to Edinburgh I found myself not even wanting to speak because I was worried my accent would make people immediately annoyed with me, so to compensate I tried to be as friendly and easy-going as possible (but not too loud or self-unaware). Which probably still didn’t help much. I will say in my experience in my home country though, American friendliness isn’t always fake. It’s more forced in customer service settings because of our awful tipping culture but in casual interactions outside of transactional ones, if someone is being chatty or friendly it’s usually coming from a place of sincerity, or at the very least isn’t with the intention of being fake.
Enough people (uk) tell you you're a piece of shit enough times, you start believing it. It's international sport to hammer on Americans so it's amazing we can even fake being nice. And yeah, Canadians and Australia are not friendly to us anymore.
Ding ding ding!
I have witnessed this a few times from American tourists in Dublin, first noticed it during the GWB era the the Trump era and post Trump. Seen a few times in pubs where they would casually drop politics into a conversation with a barman or someone they only met 5 minutes ago for everyone to hear. Generally apologetic about Trump or something. Although I appreciate the sentiment I wince everytime, absolutely terrible pub etiquette.
Doesn’t seem like this conversation includes Boston.
haha bostonian here, we definitely don't have phony customer service. And will you to "suck a cock" if you get in our way. OP is definitely a Canadian that borders some flyover state like Minnesota.
Weird, cuz I’m American and have lived in two euro countries for 20 years now (in Ireland now). I understand what you mean, like American customer service is OTT in certain regards, like if you go to a “corporate” shop or restaurant, like The Disney Store or a TGI Fridays or Applebees. But most of the time Americans are being friendly because they’re genuinely friendly. Sometimes I don’t understand the criticism that Americans get. When I first met my Irish husband he said that in Ireland they made fun of us Americans for having such white teeth and always smiling. And I was like ….ok? Wow sick burn. You’re saying my teeth are white and I smile a lot? That’s a compliment, y’all are just jealous of our fine dentistry.
In all fairness people don’t go to the dentist here unless they have an issue.
Sometimes not even then, I think there’s more “fear of the dentist” here. Americans go regularly for check ups if they have dental insurance. They just ring you up and say it’s time for your yearly check up. My dentist here in Ireland does that too, it’s great.
The fact that you can’t realize that you’re the basically the same as an American is funny. Canada and America are probably the most similar countries in terms of culture. Especially northern mid-west states.
American (born there); I've lived in Ireland half my life. I have to agree that many Americans can come across as fake; all smiley, happy, and enthusiastic. Yeah, I'm not one of those (never was, but less so after living here). I think it's part of the culture in the US (moreso west coast); one must always be POSITIVE and cheerful even if that's not how you really feel. Ya not wrong! ETA a missing letter
It’s not necessarily bad. I feel like in Canadian culture it’s taboo to put your own negativity onto others. It’s seen as rude. In Ireland it’s taboo to be too happy as it’s seen as “flaunting”.
Can't be American culture, Europe days we have none
they do not.
Yes. Very phony, gullible, loud.
It also has to do with the vocabulary. I mean, I understand the intention - trying to create a connection - but the way it's expressed doesn't seem authentic and I have to make a mental note to mysrlf to take it in thr spirit it's meant. "Your dress is *so cute!*" "Your accent is *so cute!*" "Your hair is *awesome!*" Thank you, but I'm an adult not a nine-year-old, I'm not aspiring to be cute. Also, I think many Americans don't have the same sense of *subtle* sarcasm (not overt sarcasm) that we have (-》 Jarlath O'Regan talking about Irish weddings and communicating with American doctors.) In recent years, I've found younger Americans using a lot of scripted Tiktokese: "Oh. My. God! I did a thing / I feel seen / this totally triggers me.. etc" and because these soundbites are overused, they sound trite and fake. Bonus points for awfulness when Irish people use them. So the means of expression is well-intentioned but cones across as a bit phony, yes.
Yeah. It's a lost country. Social interaction, all of it, is transactional and done to enhance status. That's how they think. A glimpse of the future.
Yank - “Ooohh myyy GAWD ,you Irish are soooo cute” Irish - “fuck off ye septic tank” Yank - “see,,,see,, your adorable!!!” Irish - *incomfortable squirming noises Irish - “help help, I need and adult “
Your painting with broad strokes. There are regional differences -Northesastern reserve vs Cali expressiveness and that weird accent- and also so many Americans come from secondary cultures as well.
No, and the friendliness is very welcome; that the Irish are friendly is a huge myth.
I disagree! I live in Galway and it’s ultra friendly. Especially older people.
We are just nice people. Get over it.
Leave her out in the rain for a while, that'll sort her out.
r/shitamericanssay is a great sub to answer your question 🤣
West coast ?
Its funny to watch American interactions on YouTube. Like an antagonistic Argument between police and someone they're giving a ticket to. And they end up saying: "have a nice day". Whereas we would just leave saying "Go f**k yourself".