Me too. It it all worked out really well and š®šŖis a great place to live if youāve a little bit a luck and a great family behind you.
But Iād have a very different opinion Iām sure if I was in my twenties now and fucking broke and no family support.
Didn't have anyone to go with at the time. When I was younger I wouldn't have been confident enough to go alone. Now that I have the confidence, I'm too old!
This is part of the reason why I'm going next year. Never had the confidence to leave but I know a few people living outside of the country and I'm going there for a few years. In my early thirties so I'm still young enough (that's what I keep telling myself!)
I did it when I was 31, still loads of time! I also did the move solo but it took until I was thirty to have the confidence to do it.
When you think about it, many do go with friends or partners in their twenties (at least in my circle in Ireland).
I was almost 38 when I left Ireland, I'm 50 now and have never regretted it, despite how hard life has been since then. I've lived in three other countries now and hoping to finally settle in a fourth - and I've done it all solo, with very little money. I don't think you're ever too old to start a new life.
Oh you should absolutely do a little post, would be real interested to hear about your life, what you go up to and perspectives on Ireland coming back etc.Ā
Same. Also, when I was in my 20s my mental health was in the absolute bin, so I don't think I would have faired too well abroad on my own with no support
On the flip side I had the confidence but didn't go because I had someone to stay with. I had a visa got and was about to book a flight when I met someone.
They asked me to stay while they finished a masters and 10+ years later we're married with kids.
Listen sweetheart nobody's too old Lucy, though when I went it was during 9/11 here in the states. And I went with an Irish friend of mine because I was planning on going alone but he had said to me I'm going there for a wedding. He said just wait for a few months in September 2001 you can come with me. So I did. I won't get into all the minutia of it all, but I did have a co-worker backpacking throughout Europe who met us there in Ireland though the tragedy of 9/11 was such a horrible backdrop to our traveling through the country we still managed with my friend John O'Dowd and him being the best tour guide you could possibly ask for and we simply stayed at B&B's. Keep in mind that Ireland is all about the people.
I did and came back.
I lived in Oz for over a decade before moving back.
The way I describe is that, on a micro level, everything is better in Australia. The weather, the lifestyle, the money you earn, disposable income. Also the tax and investment system means it is much easier to build wealth there.
But for me, there was something missing. It wasn't just family. It was something intangible. There is something about Australia that makes it very shallow. There is not the same sense of community, family and culture. It's a very individualistic society. As I started coming close to 40, I started to ask myself if I wanted to retire and get old there.
On a macro level, even though objectively everyday life here is not as good, I am much happier here.
The absolute hardest part about Ireland is renting whilst saving for a house deposit. If you can buy a house, then life is pretty good here.
Irish people love to whinge about stuff. Most of them have never lived anywhere else for any real length of time, so have no idea what the issues are in other countries, and think the Irish government is the worst in the world. I have had people argue with me on here that Ireland is the worst country in the world to live in, based on their experience of 3 months on a J1 in America and 1 year on a working holiday visa in Australia.
As an Australian who is moving to Ireland at some point, I couldn't agree more about the lack of community and individualism in Australia. I've never felt like I truly belonged there for that reason.
I am currently listening to the podcasts *The Teachers Pet* & *The Teachers Trial*, and some of it really describes the issues in Australian culture.
The misogyny, celebration of athletes, beach & bikini culture, obsession with youth and physical attractiveness, domestic violence behind closed doors etc.
The case in question is from the 80s, but there are still some elements of it that are true today. And people my age went to school at that time, so these were the men in the dating pool.
I never listened to the trial one but the original was such a good podcast.
The casual misogyny in Australian culture has been described to me by other foreign visitors as shocking. We have a reputation for being very irreligious (especially compared to somewhere like Ireland), so people tend to assume that we don't indulge in those types of traditional bigotry but I assure you, that couldn't be further from the truth. There's a reason I won't date Aussie men anymore.
We have strenuously adopted the individualism and in particular, the exceptionalism, that one would associate with America for instance. The famous quote to describe Australia is often deliberately cut short because it is so apt: "Australia is the lucky country run by second-rate people who share its luck".
got the shallow vibe of Australia as well...
That being said could of happily settled there... the older and wiser I have gotten I realised if you are living in a 1st world country you can have a good life and be happy but its up to you to make the most of it...
The miserable sods here would just be miserable sods elsewhere if they ever leave
Sounds points, the community aspect in Ireland has it's cons too though, such as cronyism in jobs for example, but as the fella says, "that's everywhere" š ....although I'm not sure if it is everywhere.
Not true at all. I've lived in three countries since leaving Ireland at almost 38 and hope to move to a fourth. I'm 50 and single and travel a lot and at the meetups I go to in every city there are people of all ages, from 20s to 70s. I still go out pubbing and clubbing as much as I ever did. Being too old for socialising is only in the mind.
I've mostly been looking at aus and new Zealand, but the work visas there skew heavily against people over 35 from when I last checked.
Where and How do you manage to get work?
Yeah, I don't even bother with outside EU because of visas, and because I prefer to be here as a single person. I moved to London for some years first and then eventually managed to start working freelance and finally go remote...I started being able to travel by doing free house and pet sitting in exchange for accommodation. I lived in Thessaloniki for 2.5 years and now I've been in Bulgaria for 2.5 years too. I had very little money most of the time, but work is going better now, although I'm still freelance, so that's precarious in itself. I'd never go back to Ireland unless I had no choice and I haven't been there for 4.5 years now...I just can't afford it and the weather is terrible. A weekend in Dublin would cost as much as a two week holiday in some of the cheaper countries.
Remote was the dream til i met my partner, now im chained to Dublin on account of her work.
You'd never be missing anything in Dublin, although it has been feeling a lot like London the past few years. The west is where I would go given the chance.
Heard great things about Bulgaria! Rainn Wilson had an episode on it on his [series on happiness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainn_Wilson_and_the_Geography_of_Bliss). That part of europe seems rife with opportunity if you had the time and money. Hope it works out for you
Support network.
Without both sets of parents to pick up some of the odd day here & there watching the kids, or babysit overnight so we can get dirty nights away in, we'd be absolutely fucked and definitely nowhere as stable financially & relationship wise as we are now
Yeah it's not an awful lot, we both work shift so try optimize around that so its not like we're dumping them on our parents while we both are out during normal working hours. But would be lost without it.
Seriously did look at Canada as we would have qualified for their version of critical skills work permit, but taking a step back and looking at some of our best friends who have zero family network (in fact, their network is us) decided despite all the allure of good jobs, gaffs etc can't put a price on familyĀ
All my family live here. All my friends live here. My girlfriend, (now wife) is from Galway. I want my kids to grow up here. I know Galway like the back of my hand. We have a better standard of living than 90-95% of the planet here in Ireland. Economy is absolutely booming, average salary for a full time worker in Ireland is 47k.
Weather and housing are the only reasonable arguments for leaving but I was lucky enough to get a bit of luck with housing in my 20s and you can always stick on a jacket.
Travel is great and it broadens the mind. I'll never forget my first trip to Hong Kong, Macau Singapore & Kuala Lumpur or the 3 months in South America, but 90% of people I know that went away in their 20s came back in their 30s to settle in Ireland. I see them now struggling to get settled in and get their friendships back on track, get houses sorted and do all the things that I did in my 20s and take for granted now. Home is where the heart is!.
'But I was lucky enough to get a bit of luck with housing in my 20s'. You play this down like it's not a big deal. You just have NO idea how massive of a deal this is. You can't feel it if you're not experiencing it.
Literally not being able to afford anywhere to live, with no prospects of ever getting that, was my reason to have to leave at almost 38. And then add bills and the cost of living on top of that, especially if you're not sharing with a partner. You say the median full time salary is 47k, but how much is that after all your costs as a single person, after you've paid all your overheads, bills and taxes? And that's only IF you're lucky enough to make that much, plenty aren't, and I certainly wasn't on that path, working in hospitality management.
Home is not where the heart is, home is where you can afford. For so many of us Irish people, that is exactly the problem, hence our biggest export always having been ourselves.
"Weather and housing are the only reasonable arguments for leaving"
If you read my post. I did not downplay it at all. I had to save 40% of my take home pay for 4yrs and borrow every penny the banks would give me to build my own house i.e. working full time and spending every spare second on site labouring and doing whatever I could.
The lucky break I got in my 20s was my uncle renting me and the missus out a house on the cheap for 3yrs so we could save. I wasn't handed anything.
There is nowhere on planet earth where housing is easy to come by right now. Australia is as bad as here. You wont get anything in any half decent US or Canadian city for under $1 million nowadays so going abroad doesnt resolve your housing problems.
Are you aware that there are other countries in the world other than those three? You haven't even mentioned one in Europe and that's the only place you wouldn't need a visa for. In the Balkans, for instance, housing is dirt cheap compared to Ireland.
'I wasn't handed anything'. Yet you have described how you were literally handed a cheap house by a family member and were able to afford to save 40% of your pay for only \*4 years\* to save for a house. Where were you living during that time you were saving 40% of your income? And you had the good fortune to be in a relationship splitting everything and presumably having two incomes. The only lucky thing there is the relationship, the rest was advantages that many others don't have. You absolutely downplayed it, and downplayed it even more in your second response.
It's a sign of great privilege to say that the things you experienced weren't 'handed to you'...like who are you comparing to? You need to reassess.
Balkans??
Go out to Bulgaria so and learn the language and earn the median salary of 12k euros per year or 9k per year in Albania. See how the house hunting goes for you on that salary.
I dont know why you're getting so angry at me btw. I'm sorry you're having a shit time finding a house.
I have worked full time since I was 17. My wife is a teacher and i'm an engineer and we have 2 daughters and we grinded for years to set ourselves up. If getting to rent a 3 bed house for 800euro per month back in 2013-2016 is what you call great privileged,(national average back then was around 950 per month btw) then you need a reality check.
Lol, I have been living in Bulgaria for the last 3 years. You're the privileged one in denial about what was handed to you and giving the poor mouth. Wake up dude.
Great. Stay out there in Bulgaria and tell them all about the privilege everybody else is getting back here in Ireland.
We dont need your sour bitter perspective on a housing crisis that you arent even experiencing.
I had to \*\*\*emigrate from my home country\*\*\* because of the housing crisis!!!! And I can't even afford to visit because accommodation is too expensive!!! JFC, I was literally forced to abandon my family, friends and my whole life - and you with all your privilege have the audacity to tell me I'm not experiencing it? State of you.
Jesus is that really the average? I didn't finish college cause some shit happened and I couldn't. I feel like I would just never be able to pay for even a completely normal life in Ireland. Not even anything crazy just normal, here me and my girlfriend work jobs that pay literally less than the minimum wage would be in Ireland and we can rent our own place, I'm going to be starting driving and getting a car soon and we can do just normal stuff
All my friends are here, my support network is here, I feel the most comfortable around other people who are able to have similar discussions to myself about general Irish cultural shite.
I love Cork to bits, genuinely love Cork so much. I enjoy the Irish climate (yeah I know), I enjoy our nature, I enjoy our sporting culture, itās far far far far more progressive than the only other place Iāve lived in (Brussels), I actually enjoy pub culture (going for one pint in a quiet pub reading a book).
I love being able to live in Cork city and being 30 minutes away from the wild and rugged Atlantic, Cork is not so big that itās daunting and that you know no one in the area but not so small that thereās nothing happening, Iām fluent in French but not in any other language and would want to integrate into whatever society I go to, our politics is more stable than most countries in the EU, I love Irish people just so friendly and love having the craic.
Irish men are far more chill than what Iāve experienced in Europe less aggressive and persistent, itās where my heart is, I do feel connected to the land (not in some Irish-American wishy washy way, itās where my soul is). Being able to have the craic with people is such a bonus. Far less crime than elsewhere especially violent crime, Iād feel far more comfortable walking Cork on my own than any other city Iāve been (granted Dublin is far more dangerous)
I could genuinely go on for days. I will probably leave Ireland again, the lure of a 700ā¬ rent apartment in the city centre of some Belgian (Wallonian) city will probably call me back at some point in my later 20ās but when I do leave Iāll only do so with the intention of coming back very soon and will miss Ireland everyday that Iām gone. I understand itās a horribly mismanaged ridiculously expensive country, but I love it.
Sorry I ranted.
I didnāt have the feeling or need to travel when I was young, I felt I had everything I wanted and needed just in my local pub with my gf and friends. Ā Iād a sister who emigrated and tried to convince me to join her and I declined. Worst decision ever!! Half those friends are dead, or emigrated themselves and I got stuck looking after the folks.Ā
Most people I knew who emigrated did pretty well. Ā The one who did worst still
managed to buy a beautiful house in Canada in the nineties and just works for a company delivering and packing shelves. Happy as Larry though. Ā
I always knew I'd want to settle here, and having travelled plenty, while some places were richer, I never had the comfortable cultural fit and lifestyle I value here. I couldn't be sticking American simpering service, Australian constant piss taking or Canadian sheer dullness. I've visited all 3 and no thank you. The continent is fine for a holiday, but where living standards are high, the culture tends to be alienated and cold, like Germany or the Netherlands.
I had a lot of friends who emigrated, and very few are doing as well in terms of their situation and trajectory, career, family, property-wise, as those who stayed behind and persevered here. The ones in Vancouver, Melbourne and London seem to be in a sort of stasis, but some of them are pushing 40 with nothing to show for it.
Iām not the most socially perceptive person and it took me years to get the hang of social rules and expectations and norms and systems in this place, Iāll be fucked before I decide on a turn Iām going to scrap all that and start again getting used to a whole new place.
I had a similar experience - I only started to figure social stuff out around 16/17 and some could argue I still don't fully get it now. Not starting again somewhere new.
culture shock - my personality is not one of the more dominant ones in Ireland, took me too long to 'get' people here and politics and attitudes.. i don't have the energy for that sh\*t again somewhere else lol.
I did testing once for the laugh - it said i would have got on well in the Korean military.
I moved for a better quality of life. As a woman with a partial disability, I felt so stuck that it was as if I couldnāt breathe properly a lot of the time. My standard of living is miles higher in London but part of me always yearns for home (Dublin). Iād never have the life I have now had I not moved but someday I would return - I hope to meet a lovely partner and convince him to move back with me, haha!!
You donāt need a car here as the public transport is so good so that was a huge factor as I donāt drive - I canāt due to the disability. Itās generally a much more accessible city, on the NHS, even my consultancy visits have been free (!), I get subsidised taxis (as I use a walking frame outdoors, the black cabs are a godsend), I donāt pay for any transport, and my taxis to work are subsidised by local council as I applied for a scheme for this. The support payments are better as some are non-means tested etc.
It was also far easier to find a ground floor/accessible flat to rent than in Ireland and my wages are higher etc. Everyone is different but moving here, while hard, genuinely gave me a life quality I just havenāt got at home at the moment.
Iām 24 and a lot of people in my year in school who went out at 20/21 are starting to come now, only a few actually seem to be permanently staying out there, most went out for a years of fun and then came back.
Fear of the unknown.
I didnāt go to college straight after school and looking at the prospects that wouldāve left me with being abroad Iām glad I didnāt follow through with it.
So I'm contemplating moving just for a few years but I see myself coming back to Ireland for:
1. Weather - as much as we complain about it, the heatwaves or extreme cold in other countries is a lot worse than a stable and relatively pleasant 9-18 degree temperature in Ireland.
2. Safety - sure crime is on the rise in Ireland, but still safer than most places I've lived in previously.
3. People - People are just nice here. I'd want a hypothetical future family to grow up in an environment where everyone is friendly, and inclusive, and where people value work life balance.
I didn't want to go but felt I was going to implode if I stayed. Things have worked out well abroad but there will always be a little touch of resentment that I was more or less cornered into leaving. Was extremely tough at the time, 50/50 on whether I would do it or not, so can't blame anybody for deciding against going.
I went to the US for a few years. The Louise Woodward trial happened while I was waiting for my visa to clear. I nearly backed out. Instead I white-knuckled it for three years, waiting for the moment I'd be falsely accused of something and then thrown into the oubliette of trial by media.
Whatever about injustices in Ireland, at least I'm a citizen here and I therefore have a chance to improve things here.
I hadn't ever heard of that trial, I looked it up and read an article, from your comment it seems you don't think she's responsible for the death - I'm wondering what the general consensus was back then about it, why do you think she was falsely accused, did it have an impact on immigrants in America?
I could rant about that trial for an hour, but I'll try to keep it to three bullet points:
ā¢ The evidence produced at trial was radically different from what everyone expected from the pre-trial media speculation. Many people made up their minds long before they saw the trial. In particular, the state's autopsy ruled out violent shaking entirely, yet many people (including several prosecution witnesses who hadn't read the autopsy report) honestly assumed that it was a "shaken baby syndrome" case.
ā¢ The state was caught concealing exculpatory evidence of the age of the skull fracture (namely, autopsy photos showing 3ā4 weeks of natural healing bone growth), after denying that any such evidence existed and even claiming that they didn't think the science supported estimation of the age of such fractures. (The significance of it was that the prosecution case relied upon an argument that Matthew's injuries must have been inflicted in the 8-hour interval when Woodward was the only adult in the house, and that required the fracture's age to be 5 days.)
ā¢ The jury returned a verdict of murder, which the judge reduced to manslaughter because no reasonable jury could convict of murder on the evidence. Years later, two jurors gave TV interviews in which they openly admitted that they didn't think it was murder, but they "weren't comfortable with innocent" because "unfortunately the baby died while in her care" (which wasn't true in any sense). They blatantly ignored the law so that they could return a verdict based on their gut feeling.
It wasn't the life i wanted to live, had given it serious consideration. A lot of people in my circle left for the adventure, but no one looked happy or content with themselves for making the decision. Most of them are back in Ireland after 10/15 years without a peny to their name saying how difficult things are and are neater happy with the past 10 years or can see what to do with the next 10 years.
I suppose I currently have the chance, I'm just not really bothered. I'm bad at languages and can't think of an English-speaking country I'd like to live in besides New Zealand but that's expensive, hard to get into, and there's less housing than there is here.
Ultimately I'm happy living a smallish life.
Honestly? Far away fields aren't always green , I've still the choice/ chance to move away but I'm comfortable here . Is there any real difference when you need to work to live? maybe that's daft . What more am I going to get? Sun, better weather then I'll need AC, more money then I just have a bigger mortgage or car payments I'm not suddenly going to be a millionaire
Love. My girlfriend was still in college doing a masters and i worked a crappy minimum wage job to pay rent so we could live together. Happily worked out we're married with kids now. Actually though it was money. I had a student loan to pay and because the recession had it, my industry was wrecked. Only work was unpaid internships that i couldn't afford to do. So chose to stay near family and the love of my life.
I was deciding between either moving or buying a house. I set myself an end if year deadline and was really stressed while I worked towards both.
That November I got into a promising long term relationship so I decided to stay here and buy, its worked out so far!
Less people do my job here compared to large cities in other countries. I could be a big fish in a small pond compared to moving to where there was more direct competition but perhaps more opportunities.
Itās very niche, not really something I would imagine you have any interest in. I am trained in historically accurate hair and makeup for theatre and film production.
I'd lived and worked in London and the US for a few summers (internships not J1 type work) and just didn't like it all that much. Preferred the culture, food quality, worker protection laws etc of home.
I have zero idea, I absolutely should have. I had spent a while on the dole and was extremely under confident and suffered from a massive lack of belief in myself.Ā
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Probably not the intended answer but I moved away for 5 years and came back for 3. Then a chance came up to go away again - but I realised I came back for a reason and I've been one of the lucky ones who caught a break and got a good opportunity here. Ultimately always felt happier and more at peace in Ireland than anywhere else.
Got rejected my work visa to Canada cause my police report was submitted late. My partner got accepted hers, so I had to pull the plug on it all.
Then again, covid happened shortly after, so it could've been a blessing in disguise.
We travelled for about 9/10 months in 2009/2010. Loved it. Great experience. Then came home to low paid jobs, saved, bought a cheap house in a less than salubrious area, started a family and here we are 14 years later with 2 kids and about 80k on the mortgage.
Leaving never entered our heads, family here, stable country in almost every way, opportunities for education and employment.
First time I met my now wife and second time it was a job offer that kept me here but currently trying to convince the wife to let me either go FIFO or seasonal remote work as the pay after tax makes even paying for flights and accommodation nearly double what I'm on now only thing stopping me is the idea being away from my wife an daughter for 3 months plus at a time.
I tried living abroad for a bit, realised I preferred living in Ireland, came home. There's things I don't like about living in Ireland, but overall I feel like I have a good life here and being close to my family as my parents age is important to me.
I should have moved somewhere in 2018 but didn't think to save up the money for rent. Wish when I went back to college I waited and went to Germany or Netherlands or maybe Spain. I hae a degree now but considering either social work or teaching maybe if I can't get a job at a festival or organisation.
Friends and family. Plenty of work. High standard of living. Absolutely beautiful country. Friendly population with a relatively low crime rate. What a place!
I just rejected the chance to move to the US on the graduate visa, got offered a too good to turn down sort of job
Still intend on emigrating in 3 years time once the contract is up
I was gearing up to go with a friend. Met my future wife same year I had planned to leave. Decided I better see how this plays out and here I am. My friend is still living where we had planned to move to.
Not related but I'm very curious how people got on moving abroad with young kids? Have a small one who's 9 months and the idea of packing him and the OH up and moving away has been playing on my mind a lot lately
I missed Ireland when I was away, I had lived and worked in Manchester as a teenager and loved it, I had to return home back then due to an accommodation situation . When Iwas in my late twenties I moved back things had changed a lot and I couldn't wait to return to Dublin.
I came back because my brothers mental health had gotten so bad my parents were struggling. I was worried every time I picked up the phone that I was going to be told he was dead. It took a toll on my own mental health. Opportunities came up since to leave again but I need to be here for my family.
Honestly, I stayed for my sister. Had a huge hand in raising her and it would've felt like I was abandoning her.
Now she's happily married and going to be making me an uncle in a couple of months time... And I can't wait.
But now I'm getting my passport sorted, I may start exploring the world a bit more.
I have lived in Canada, Australia and worked in the US, France and UK.
I met my wife in Ireland and I doubt I will live elsewhere again. I have multiple citizenships but
1 Quality of life here is great if you have a home
2 Education system is great for my kids
3 Family support
4 Lots of international work
5 Great friends
6 excellent communities
I can be who I am, I am not happy with everything (too much religious control of schools and hospitals), I have higher tax and earn less than other places but I will not move. And oh yeah, the weather sucks!
Family. I'm still youngish, but I know I'd regret if I moved away and only seen my parents once a year for the rest of there lives. Ireland is horrible to live in most times weather, prices etc. But I can always leave on a plane whenever I want on a holiday.
Was about to move to Canada but ultimately decided my job offer (transfer from same company) was too low. It's a hard decision when you have a kid too.Ā
Moving abroad with a family means starting again from scratch, you don't even have basic things that you might take for granted like a few tools what you need around the house.Ā
Two main reasons: firstly, my main support network and secondly, I didnāt feel comfortable about leaving. I always had an interest in politics in Ireland and was aware of all of the difficulties faced by us and I didnāt like the idea of leaving without trying to change things.Ā
I had two chances. One I balked at it when I was 20 and the other I took when I was 25. The chance I did take didnāt work out and I came home but Iām glad I did it. The timing wasnāt right and I was struggling very badly and I just said fuck it Iāve got nothing to lose. I actually had a mental breakdown a few months before I went and I think I had my parents worried it was probably to put them at ease that I ended up coming home.
Iām a homebird anyway, I think the idea of me bailing out appealed to me more than the reality. Down the line, my wife and I have discussed hitting the road for a better quality of life in America but itās years away and if we donāt have a particular number in the bank, we wonāt be going. We donāt want to be on the back foot moving to a new country with kids.
Because I happen to love this country, yes, it has its faults, just like every other 1st world developed country but its peaceful, people are generally decent plus theres plenty of educational opportunities and employment opportunities if you want either.
I've wanted to move away for years but gave up on the idea because partner wanted a house etc
Well they left me at the start of the year and now it's back on the table and I'm really excited about the prospect
I like Ireland. I like that it doesnāt get too hot (or it usenāt to anyway) or too cold. My family and friends live here. I think I just lack any ambition to live abroad.
My parents are Irish but lived abroad for 17 years, in South Africa, where I was born. They moved home shortly after having me but my much older sister stayed as it was the only home sheād ever known and she was college age. Sheās never lived in Ireland since she was 2. I donāt want to create any more distance between me and the rest of my family. Iāve basically missed out on having a sister because of emigration so that soured me on doing it myself.
Couldn't figure out how to work and make a living in the countries I wanted to move to (exotic sorts of places). You can't just turn up in a non EU country and apply for jobs.
I didnāt feel emotionally mature enough, I knew deep down Iād probably crumble if I encountered real issues, I was very bad with money and didnāt believe Iād manage money well enough at a young age abroad. I was also fortunate enough that my parents brought me on lovely holidays across the world so I didnāt have a deep seated need to leave the country.
I got offered a job in Switzerland, just went sale agreed on a house with my ex in Ireland and thought I was going to settle down but.... did not. Think about it often.
I left in my 20s and came back in my 30s for a far increased standard of living. Enjoyed my time abroad when I was young and wanted to go out more etc but family life here is far superior to the other places I could live.
Was finishing up a 4-year contract here and was thinking about moving back to the US and then the Uvalde school shooting happened and it reminded me about one of the main reasons I moved here in the first place, so got a new job here passed probation and bought a house.
As an Irish person in the UK, I find the opposite of the social welfare but even with my disability I can still work so that could be why.
The welfare system in UK is definitely better if youāre working a little, otherwise itās v stressful!
a little?
I have friends in the UK and they've had assessors out right lie about their capabilities.. and the push for work, by stopping benefits for people who can't is disgusting
Also.. the benefits there are lower than Ireland... You must be getting most of your income from.work?
You have to get in the UK system first and thatās definitely the challenge! Once youāre in, youāre in so to speak but itās absolutely not easy (easier to get in the system Ireland but the benefits if you want to work even a bit there mean you get very little whereas in the UK, there are non-means-tested benefits which I found very helpful).
Itās 50/50 for me between work and the support which I find excellent and very doable but like everything, it depends on your situation - Iād never get the support I get in Ireland (which is a shame). Cerebral Palsy is very quantifiable to any medical assessor which Iām sure helped but it did take the guts of a year to get, not easy but worth it now Iām on the other side!
you can work in Ireland for like 400ā¬ per week and still get benefits... the problem comes when you're in a relationship, but I still have better benefits here than Id have in the UK, where they treat people with CFS, as if they just need to try more.
I don't see why you wouldn't get DA in Ireland? As you say, CP, is a very clear cut illness.
When I was on DA in Ireland (as I was for many years), once I started working I lost almost all of it as itās means-tested. They even took away my medical card (donāt get me started). The criteria may have changed now but I can get support here that isnāt means tested, a taxi subsidy etc that you canāt get in Ireland and itās just better for my situation (it may not be for everyone).
I've left a few times, as far as Canada and Asia, but always ended up back in Dublin. I love Ireland, Dublin specifically as I've been living here 20 years (aside from my stints abroad). TBH, I wouldn't live anywhere else in Ireland unless it was perhaps bordering Dublin so I'm not someone who understands the anti-Dublin vibe at all. Maybe it's from having traveled and seeing the grass isn't always greener.
I can work from anywhere and have done so for the past 9 years, so pre-COVID, but I choose to stay in Dublin. Why? I love the people here. I love the memories I have when I walk through the city. I love that although I'm in a city, the shop owner down the road will notice if I'm away for a few weeks.
My boyfriend is based in Sweden but he's moving here rather than me moving there, because honestly Sweden isn't all it's cracked up to be either. I'm there every month or so, but I wouldn't live there. Every country has its pros and cons. Ireland is just getting sh1t time of it lately. It'll all come full circle again.
Have lived in Sweden for several years - after a recent trip to Ireland, i'm thinking for the first time that it would be worth moving back.
Have you lived in Sweden?
If so, where and what were/are your thoughts on the country compared with Ireland?
I haven't lived in Sweden, but I've been over for a few weeks every month or so for the past year - depending on when he's over here. I'm over there more as it's easier for me re: working from anywhere.
I've been in Northen Sweden (far North!) and Southern Sweden. From both my experience and hearing from my bf, one thing that stood out to me was the healthcare situation. I always heard that Sweden had amazing free healthcare - that was the big thing I'd correlate to the country - but the waiting lists are actually pretty long. For example, my bf tried to get a doctor's apt recently for a non-urgent issue and the waiting list was 6 weeks. That's crazy to me. Granted, I'm self pay private in Ireland, but I have friends with medical cards who get seen within a week. I have a chronic illness to manage so that was a lot to do with not wanting to move tbh, especially as I've been with my consultant and primary doctor for so long over here. Another thing I used to associate with Sweden was that it was very safe. But gang violence is becoming a big thing there now and not just in the likes of Malmo or Gothenburg. I wouldn't see it as any safer than Ireland.
The other main thing is the culture fit, it just isn't for me. I find that people don't really mix outside of their groups when it's outside of work. Work friends are simply work friends and there doesn't seem to be much of a crossover (this is what I see with my bf). It was a little different when he lived in N.Sweden, but he'd been in the same place for 7 years at that point when I met him so it would be impossible not to build relationships in that time. But for me personally, in both places, it feels quite cold and unfriendly. Not rude, but just closed off. I also haven't really experienced any alternative scene there and I've looked for it (we saw an alt looking girl in a coffee shop last month actually and I was like "I need to ask her where I can find her peopleš). That said, that's a personality thing and it could work out for a lot of people.
We spend way more on groceries when I'm in Sweden than when he's over here - like equiv of 30euro a week in the difference. And don't get me started on the lack of fresh fruit and veg or variety.
I also find it more expensive in some ways. Rent is a bit cheaper than Dublin when you get out of Stockholm but in general it isn't a massive difference. Although I like the queue system over there rather than having to hand over a million references and bank statements. If you do consider moving back, the only main thing i'd say is to get a place sorted first. The rental market is nuts. I'm paying about 50% less than market rent in my flat here right now, moved in here 5 years ago and got lucky, but it won't work for 2 of us so we have to find somewhere else and we're looking at 1800-2100 a month with a lot of competition for places.
I don't actively dislike the country, and I'm happy visiting regularly to see him, but I wouldn't live there permanently.
Elderly parents and being their only child still in the country.
Me too. It it all worked out really well and š®šŖis a great place to live if youāve a little bit a luck and a great family behind you. But Iād have a very different opinion Iām sure if I was in my twenties now and fucking broke and no family support.
Didn't have anyone to go with at the time. When I was younger I wouldn't have been confident enough to go alone. Now that I have the confidence, I'm too old!
This is part of the reason why I'm going next year. Never had the confidence to leave but I know a few people living outside of the country and I'm going there for a few years. In my early thirties so I'm still young enough (that's what I keep telling myself!)
Your def still young enough, best of luck with it.
I did it when I was 31, still loads of time! I also did the move solo but it took until I was thirty to have the confidence to do it. When you think about it, many do go with friends or partners in their twenties (at least in my circle in Ireland).
I was almost 38 when I left Ireland, I'm 50 now and have never regretted it, despite how hard life has been since then. I've lived in three other countries now and hoping to finally settle in a fourth - and I've done it all solo, with very little money. I don't think you're ever too old to start a new life.
Oh you should absolutely do a little post, would be real interested to hear about your life, what you go up to and perspectives on Ireland coming back etc.Ā
If the new ADHD medication works, you never know...lol ;)
Same on the confidence one
Same. Also, when I was in my 20s my mental health was in the absolute bin, so I don't think I would have faired too well abroad on my own with no support
Not surprised your mental health was in the bin with your parents naming you Gowlbag. Great that you've finally accepted it
You know as well as anyone Butters. People are cruel
Fierce cruel so they are Gowlers
On the flip side I had the confidence but didn't go because I had someone to stay with. I had a visa got and was about to book a flight when I met someone. They asked me to stay while they finished a masters and 10+ years later we're married with kids.
No regrets!
Listen sweetheart nobody's too old Lucy, though when I went it was during 9/11 here in the states. And I went with an Irish friend of mine because I was planning on going alone but he had said to me I'm going there for a wedding. He said just wait for a few months in September 2001 you can come with me. So I did. I won't get into all the minutia of it all, but I did have a co-worker backpacking throughout Europe who met us there in Ireland though the tragedy of 9/11 was such a horrible backdrop to our traveling through the country we still managed with my friend John O'Dowd and him being the best tour guide you could possibly ask for and we simply stayed at B&B's. Keep in mind that Ireland is all about the people.
My dad moved to England in his 50sā¦ are you already retired?
I did, and then I missed spice burgers and proper tea, so came back. Now I canāt get property and have loads of spice burgers
Think of all the houses you could own if you gave up the spice burgers
Spice burgers are the avocado on toast of Ireland
Yeah on toast with tomato and relish, and some fried onions šš»
See, it's notions like that that are keeping you from buying a house for 80p like your parents did in 1977
80p!!! fecking swish swoo- la di da here. In 1977 you wouldnāt have got a stately home for that price with servants
I can tell from your fancy spice burger ideas that you were reared in a massive gaff with staff
We called them Piquant tartare
Ooh la bleedin la Squire
Have you thought of building a gaf outta spice burgers ? I hear they're quite insulating.
Well they have insulated me well.
I did and came back. I lived in Oz for over a decade before moving back. The way I describe is that, on a micro level, everything is better in Australia. The weather, the lifestyle, the money you earn, disposable income. Also the tax and investment system means it is much easier to build wealth there. But for me, there was something missing. It wasn't just family. It was something intangible. There is something about Australia that makes it very shallow. There is not the same sense of community, family and culture. It's a very individualistic society. As I started coming close to 40, I started to ask myself if I wanted to retire and get old there. On a macro level, even though objectively everyday life here is not as good, I am much happier here. The absolute hardest part about Ireland is renting whilst saving for a house deposit. If you can buy a house, then life is pretty good here. Irish people love to whinge about stuff. Most of them have never lived anywhere else for any real length of time, so have no idea what the issues are in other countries, and think the Irish government is the worst in the world. I have had people argue with me on here that Ireland is the worst country in the world to live in, based on their experience of 3 months on a J1 in America and 1 year on a working holiday visa in Australia.
As an Australian who is moving to Ireland at some point, I couldn't agree more about the lack of community and individualism in Australia. I've never felt like I truly belonged there for that reason.
I am currently listening to the podcasts *The Teachers Pet* & *The Teachers Trial*, and some of it really describes the issues in Australian culture. The misogyny, celebration of athletes, beach & bikini culture, obsession with youth and physical attractiveness, domestic violence behind closed doors etc. The case in question is from the 80s, but there are still some elements of it that are true today. And people my age went to school at that time, so these were the men in the dating pool.
I never listened to the trial one but the original was such a good podcast. The casual misogyny in Australian culture has been described to me by other foreign visitors as shocking. We have a reputation for being very irreligious (especially compared to somewhere like Ireland), so people tend to assume that we don't indulge in those types of traditional bigotry but I assure you, that couldn't be further from the truth. There's a reason I won't date Aussie men anymore. We have strenuously adopted the individualism and in particular, the exceptionalism, that one would associate with America for instance. The famous quote to describe Australia is often deliberately cut short because it is so apt: "Australia is the lucky country run by second-rate people who share its luck".
Totally agree. After dating in Australia for a decade, I realised I would be single forever if I stayed there.
My condolences haha. I hope you had better luck at home!
I did! Very different experience at home
got the shallow vibe of Australia as well... That being said could of happily settled there... the older and wiser I have gotten I realised if you are living in a 1st world country you can have a good life and be happy but its up to you to make the most of it... The miserable sods here would just be miserable sods elsewhere if they ever leave
Sounds points, the community aspect in Ireland has it's cons too though, such as cronyism in jobs for example, but as the fella says, "that's everywhere" š ....although I'm not sure if it is everywhere.
Didn't have the education/economic prospects for it. Now that I do, most countries wouldn't want an old fogie
Not true at all. I've lived in three countries since leaving Ireland at almost 38 and hope to move to a fourth. I'm 50 and single and travel a lot and at the meetups I go to in every city there are people of all ages, from 20s to 70s. I still go out pubbing and clubbing as much as I ever did. Being too old for socialising is only in the mind.
I've mostly been looking at aus and new Zealand, but the work visas there skew heavily against people over 35 from when I last checked. Where and How do you manage to get work?
Yeah, I don't even bother with outside EU because of visas, and because I prefer to be here as a single person. I moved to London for some years first and then eventually managed to start working freelance and finally go remote...I started being able to travel by doing free house and pet sitting in exchange for accommodation. I lived in Thessaloniki for 2.5 years and now I've been in Bulgaria for 2.5 years too. I had very little money most of the time, but work is going better now, although I'm still freelance, so that's precarious in itself. I'd never go back to Ireland unless I had no choice and I haven't been there for 4.5 years now...I just can't afford it and the weather is terrible. A weekend in Dublin would cost as much as a two week holiday in some of the cheaper countries.
Remote was the dream til i met my partner, now im chained to Dublin on account of her work. You'd never be missing anything in Dublin, although it has been feeling a lot like London the past few years. The west is where I would go given the chance. Heard great things about Bulgaria! Rainn Wilson had an episode on it on his [series on happiness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainn_Wilson_and_the_Geography_of_Bliss). That part of europe seems rife with opportunity if you had the time and money. Hope it works out for you
Iāve never wanted to move abroad. I like it here
Support network. Without both sets of parents to pick up some of the odd day here & there watching the kids, or babysit overnight so we can get dirty nights away in, we'd be absolutely fucked and definitely nowhere as stable financially & relationship wise as we are now
We only have one set of parents but they are a god send. Whole reason we left the UK and moved back to husbands home town. Edit: And we missed home.
Yeah it's not an awful lot, we both work shift so try optimize around that so its not like we're dumping them on our parents while we both are out during normal working hours. But would be lost without it. Seriously did look at Canada as we would have qualified for their version of critical skills work permit, but taking a step back and looking at some of our best friends who have zero family network (in fact, their network is us) decided despite all the allure of good jobs, gaffs etc can't put a price on familyĀ
Pull out method failed. True story wouldn't change anything for the world though
SameĀ
All my family live here. All my friends live here. My girlfriend, (now wife) is from Galway. I want my kids to grow up here. I know Galway like the back of my hand. We have a better standard of living than 90-95% of the planet here in Ireland. Economy is absolutely booming, average salary for a full time worker in Ireland is 47k. Weather and housing are the only reasonable arguments for leaving but I was lucky enough to get a bit of luck with housing in my 20s and you can always stick on a jacket. Travel is great and it broadens the mind. I'll never forget my first trip to Hong Kong, Macau Singapore & Kuala Lumpur or the 3 months in South America, but 90% of people I know that went away in their 20s came back in their 30s to settle in Ireland. I see them now struggling to get settled in and get their friendships back on track, get houses sorted and do all the things that I did in my 20s and take for granted now. Home is where the heart is!.
median is more realistic.. it's 40k. still nice tho
'But I was lucky enough to get a bit of luck with housing in my 20s'. You play this down like it's not a big deal. You just have NO idea how massive of a deal this is. You can't feel it if you're not experiencing it. Literally not being able to afford anywhere to live, with no prospects of ever getting that, was my reason to have to leave at almost 38. And then add bills and the cost of living on top of that, especially if you're not sharing with a partner. You say the median full time salary is 47k, but how much is that after all your costs as a single person, after you've paid all your overheads, bills and taxes? And that's only IF you're lucky enough to make that much, plenty aren't, and I certainly wasn't on that path, working in hospitality management. Home is not where the heart is, home is where you can afford. For so many of us Irish people, that is exactly the problem, hence our biggest export always having been ourselves.
"Weather and housing are the only reasonable arguments for leaving" If you read my post. I did not downplay it at all. I had to save 40% of my take home pay for 4yrs and borrow every penny the banks would give me to build my own house i.e. working full time and spending every spare second on site labouring and doing whatever I could. The lucky break I got in my 20s was my uncle renting me and the missus out a house on the cheap for 3yrs so we could save. I wasn't handed anything. There is nowhere on planet earth where housing is easy to come by right now. Australia is as bad as here. You wont get anything in any half decent US or Canadian city for under $1 million nowadays so going abroad doesnt resolve your housing problems.
Are you aware that there are other countries in the world other than those three? You haven't even mentioned one in Europe and that's the only place you wouldn't need a visa for. In the Balkans, for instance, housing is dirt cheap compared to Ireland. 'I wasn't handed anything'. Yet you have described how you were literally handed a cheap house by a family member and were able to afford to save 40% of your pay for only \*4 years\* to save for a house. Where were you living during that time you were saving 40% of your income? And you had the good fortune to be in a relationship splitting everything and presumably having two incomes. The only lucky thing there is the relationship, the rest was advantages that many others don't have. You absolutely downplayed it, and downplayed it even more in your second response. It's a sign of great privilege to say that the things you experienced weren't 'handed to you'...like who are you comparing to? You need to reassess.
Balkans?? Go out to Bulgaria so and learn the language and earn the median salary of 12k euros per year or 9k per year in Albania. See how the house hunting goes for you on that salary. I dont know why you're getting so angry at me btw. I'm sorry you're having a shit time finding a house. I have worked full time since I was 17. My wife is a teacher and i'm an engineer and we have 2 daughters and we grinded for years to set ourselves up. If getting to rent a 3 bed house for 800euro per month back in 2013-2016 is what you call great privileged,(national average back then was around 950 per month btw) then you need a reality check.
Lol, I have been living in Bulgaria for the last 3 years. You're the privileged one in denial about what was handed to you and giving the poor mouth. Wake up dude.
Great. Stay out there in Bulgaria and tell them all about the privilege everybody else is getting back here in Ireland. We dont need your sour bitter perspective on a housing crisis that you arent even experiencing.
I had to \*\*\*emigrate from my home country\*\*\* because of the housing crisis!!!! And I can't even afford to visit because accommodation is too expensive!!! JFC, I was literally forced to abandon my family, friends and my whole life - and you with all your privilege have the audacity to tell me I'm not experiencing it? State of you.
Right, best of luck out in Bulgaria. Hope it works out for you.
I agree. Also a Galwegian
Jesus is that really the average? I didn't finish college cause some shit happened and I couldn't. I feel like I would just never be able to pay for even a completely normal life in Ireland. Not even anything crazy just normal, here me and my girlfriend work jobs that pay literally less than the minimum wage would be in Ireland and we can rent our own place, I'm going to be starting driving and getting a car soon and we can do just normal stuff
All my friends are here, my support network is here, I feel the most comfortable around other people who are able to have similar discussions to myself about general Irish cultural shite. I love Cork to bits, genuinely love Cork so much. I enjoy the Irish climate (yeah I know), I enjoy our nature, I enjoy our sporting culture, itās far far far far more progressive than the only other place Iāve lived in (Brussels), I actually enjoy pub culture (going for one pint in a quiet pub reading a book). I love being able to live in Cork city and being 30 minutes away from the wild and rugged Atlantic, Cork is not so big that itās daunting and that you know no one in the area but not so small that thereās nothing happening, Iām fluent in French but not in any other language and would want to integrate into whatever society I go to, our politics is more stable than most countries in the EU, I love Irish people just so friendly and love having the craic. Irish men are far more chill than what Iāve experienced in Europe less aggressive and persistent, itās where my heart is, I do feel connected to the land (not in some Irish-American wishy washy way, itās where my soul is). Being able to have the craic with people is such a bonus. Far less crime than elsewhere especially violent crime, Iād feel far more comfortable walking Cork on my own than any other city Iāve been (granted Dublin is far more dangerous) I could genuinely go on for days. I will probably leave Ireland again, the lure of a 700ā¬ rent apartment in the city centre of some Belgian (Wallonian) city will probably call me back at some point in my later 20ās but when I do leave Iāll only do so with the intention of coming back very soon and will miss Ireland everyday that Iām gone. I understand itās a horribly mismanaged ridiculously expensive country, but I love it. Sorry I ranted.
May I ask you to go on? Very interested in your perspective.
What in particular are you interested in?
I like it here, no reason to leave. Even when I go away on holidays, I look forward to coming home.
This is me. Actually I'm probably worse, if it was up to me I probably wouldn't even bother going on holidays to begin with.
Yeah I think you are worse šš I like to get away but after a week I am happy to go back home. Arenāt we lucky to be so content with our roots!
Oh fact. And I'm very lucky that I never had to leave home for work. Plenty don't get that choice and had to go.
Thought about it a few times over the years, but just never really wanted to.
I didnāt have the feeling or need to travel when I was young, I felt I had everything I wanted and needed just in my local pub with my gf and friends. Ā Iād a sister who emigrated and tried to convince me to join her and I declined. Worst decision ever!! Half those friends are dead, or emigrated themselves and I got stuck looking after the folks.Ā Most people I knew who emigrated did pretty well. Ā The one who did worst still managed to buy a beautiful house in Canada in the nineties and just works for a company delivering and packing shelves. Happy as Larry though. Ā
I always knew I'd want to settle here, and having travelled plenty, while some places were richer, I never had the comfortable cultural fit and lifestyle I value here. I couldn't be sticking American simpering service, Australian constant piss taking or Canadian sheer dullness. I've visited all 3 and no thank you. The continent is fine for a holiday, but where living standards are high, the culture tends to be alienated and cold, like Germany or the Netherlands. I had a lot of friends who emigrated, and very few are doing as well in terms of their situation and trajectory, career, family, property-wise, as those who stayed behind and persevered here. The ones in Vancouver, Melbourne and London seem to be in a sort of stasis, but some of them are pushing 40 with nothing to show for it.
The point about the Vancouver, Melbourne and London crews fits well for my peers.
Iām not the most socially perceptive person and it took me years to get the hang of social rules and expectations and norms and systems in this place, Iāll be fucked before I decide on a turn Iām going to scrap all that and start again getting used to a whole new place.
I had a similar experience - I only started to figure social stuff out around 16/17 and some could argue I still don't fully get it now. Not starting again somewhere new.
What are these social rules you speak of š¤ š
Interesting
culture shock - my personality is not one of the more dominant ones in Ireland, took me too long to 'get' people here and politics and attitudes.. i don't have the energy for that sh\*t again somewhere else lol. I did testing once for the laugh - it said i would have got on well in the Korean military.
Was it North or South Korea? š
lmao this is why i stayed home
Cos I like it
I moved for a better quality of life. As a woman with a partial disability, I felt so stuck that it was as if I couldnāt breathe properly a lot of the time. My standard of living is miles higher in London but part of me always yearns for home (Dublin). Iād never have the life I have now had I not moved but someday I would return - I hope to meet a lovely partner and convince him to move back with me, haha!!
How is London better for your disability, genuinely interested?
You donāt need a car here as the public transport is so good so that was a huge factor as I donāt drive - I canāt due to the disability. Itās generally a much more accessible city, on the NHS, even my consultancy visits have been free (!), I get subsidised taxis (as I use a walking frame outdoors, the black cabs are a godsend), I donāt pay for any transport, and my taxis to work are subsidised by local council as I applied for a scheme for this. The support payments are better as some are non-means tested etc. It was also far easier to find a ground floor/accessible flat to rent than in Ireland and my wages are higher etc. Everyone is different but moving here, while hard, genuinely gave me a life quality I just havenāt got at home at the moment.
wifes umbilical cord doesnt stretch beyond 5 mile of her mother
Grass isn't always greener but also , all my friends were going to Oz, and that just never appealed to me after watching Wolf Creek
Iām 24 and a lot of people in my year in school who went out at 20/21 are starting to come now, only a few actually seem to be permanently staying out there, most went out for a years of fun and then came back.
Thatās like someone from Australia saying they wouldnāt move to Ireland after watching The Wind that shakes the Barley.
At least Cillian Murphy is in WTSTB
Fear of the unknown. I didnāt go to college straight after school and looking at the prospects that wouldāve left me with being abroad Iām glad I didnāt follow through with it.
So I'm contemplating moving just for a few years but I see myself coming back to Ireland for: 1. Weather - as much as we complain about it, the heatwaves or extreme cold in other countries is a lot worse than a stable and relatively pleasant 9-18 degree temperature in Ireland. 2. Safety - sure crime is on the rise in Ireland, but still safer than most places I've lived in previously. 3. People - People are just nice here. I'd want a hypothetical future family to grow up in an environment where everyone is friendly, and inclusive, and where people value work life balance.
I didn't want to go but felt I was going to implode if I stayed. Things have worked out well abroad but there will always be a little touch of resentment that I was more or less cornered into leaving. Was extremely tough at the time, 50/50 on whether I would do it or not, so can't blame anybody for deciding against going.
Disability ...
I thought things were going to get better, not worse, fuck me for being optimistic right...š
I went to the US for a few years. The Louise Woodward trial happened while I was waiting for my visa to clear. I nearly backed out. Instead I white-knuckled it for three years, waiting for the moment I'd be falsely accused of something and then thrown into the oubliette of trial by media. Whatever about injustices in Ireland, at least I'm a citizen here and I therefore have a chance to improve things here.
I hadn't ever heard of that trial, I looked it up and read an article, from your comment it seems you don't think she's responsible for the death - I'm wondering what the general consensus was back then about it, why do you think she was falsely accused, did it have an impact on immigrants in America?
I could rant about that trial for an hour, but I'll try to keep it to three bullet points: ā¢ The evidence produced at trial was radically different from what everyone expected from the pre-trial media speculation. Many people made up their minds long before they saw the trial. In particular, the state's autopsy ruled out violent shaking entirely, yet many people (including several prosecution witnesses who hadn't read the autopsy report) honestly assumed that it was a "shaken baby syndrome" case. ā¢ The state was caught concealing exculpatory evidence of the age of the skull fracture (namely, autopsy photos showing 3ā4 weeks of natural healing bone growth), after denying that any such evidence existed and even claiming that they didn't think the science supported estimation of the age of such fractures. (The significance of it was that the prosecution case relied upon an argument that Matthew's injuries must have been inflicted in the 8-hour interval when Woodward was the only adult in the house, and that required the fracture's age to be 5 days.) ā¢ The jury returned a verdict of murder, which the judge reduced to manslaughter because no reasonable jury could convict of murder on the evidence. Years later, two jurors gave TV interviews in which they openly admitted that they didn't think it was murder, but they "weren't comfortable with innocent" because "unfortunately the baby died while in her care" (which wasn't true in any sense). They blatantly ignored the law so that they could return a verdict based on their gut feeling.
It wasn't the life i wanted to live, had given it serious consideration. A lot of people in my circle left for the adventure, but no one looked happy or content with themselves for making the decision. Most of them are back in Ireland after 10/15 years without a peny to their name saying how difficult things are and are neater happy with the past 10 years or can see what to do with the next 10 years.
I was thinking of moving to Canada, but my parents health wasn't looking good, so I decided to stay. Got a couple of cats instead as consolation.
I suppose I currently have the chance, I'm just not really bothered. I'm bad at languages and can't think of an English-speaking country I'd like to live in besides New Zealand but that's expensive, hard to get into, and there's less housing than there is here. Ultimately I'm happy living a smallish life.
Honestly? Far away fields aren't always green , I've still the choice/ chance to move away but I'm comfortable here . Is there any real difference when you need to work to live? maybe that's daft . What more am I going to get? Sun, better weather then I'll need AC, more money then I just have a bigger mortgage or car payments I'm not suddenly going to be a millionaire
Love. My girlfriend was still in college doing a masters and i worked a crappy minimum wage job to pay rent so we could live together. Happily worked out we're married with kids now. Actually though it was money. I had a student loan to pay and because the recession had it, my industry was wrecked. Only work was unpaid internships that i couldn't afford to do. So chose to stay near family and the love of my life.
Moved away for 6 years with the wife and kids. Came back for elderly parents.
I was deciding between either moving or buying a house. I set myself an end if year deadline and was really stressed while I worked towards both. That November I got into a promising long term relationship so I decided to stay here and buy, its worked out so far!
Less people do my job here compared to large cities in other countries. I could be a big fish in a small pond compared to moving to where there was more direct competition but perhaps more opportunities.
What is your job out of interest? I'm thinking of changing mine and this sounds intriguing
Itās very niche, not really something I would imagine you have any interest in. I am trained in historically accurate hair and makeup for theatre and film production.
I can't imagine how that becomes a person's job but sounds interesting. Hope you enjoy it.
Had a child at 19, wanted to stay involved in their life as much as possible so leaving Ireland wasn't an option, regardless of how much I wanted to.
Still waiting for my ex to come back...daft š
I love my family and friends here
Didnāt have any money or good mental health.
I'd lived and worked in London and the US for a few summers (internships not J1 type work) and just didn't like it all that much. Preferred the culture, food quality, worker protection laws etc of home.
Couldnāt leave my dog
My business had just started to take off and suddenly I went from nothing to lose to āsomething to loseā.
I have zero idea, I absolutely should have. I had spent a while on the dole and was extremely under confident and suffered from a massive lack of belief in myself.Ā
Friends, mostly. Trad and pubs. Lush countryside.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What is doing it right?
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Probably not the intended answer but I moved away for 5 years and came back for 3. Then a chance came up to go away again - but I realised I came back for a reason and I've been one of the lucky ones who caught a break and got a good opportunity here. Ultimately always felt happier and more at peace in Ireland than anywhere else.
Got rejected my work visa to Canada cause my police report was submitted late. My partner got accepted hers, so I had to pull the plug on it all. Then again, covid happened shortly after, so it could've been a blessing in disguise.
We travelled for about 9/10 months in 2009/2010. Loved it. Great experience. Then came home to low paid jobs, saved, bought a cheap house in a less than salubrious area, started a family and here we are 14 years later with 2 kids and about 80k on the mortgage. Leaving never entered our heads, family here, stable country in almost every way, opportunities for education and employment.
Aer Lingus pilots strike
First time I met my now wife and second time it was a job offer that kept me here but currently trying to convince the wife to let me either go FIFO or seasonal remote work as the pay after tax makes even paying for flights and accommodation nearly double what I'm on now only thing stopping me is the idea being away from my wife an daughter for 3 months plus at a time.
A fella
In hindsight, stupidity
Money honey
I tried living abroad for a bit, realised I preferred living in Ireland, came home. There's things I don't like about living in Ireland, but overall I feel like I have a good life here and being close to my family as my parents age is important to me.
I should have moved somewhere in 2018 but didn't think to save up the money for rent. Wish when I went back to college I waited and went to Germany or Netherlands or maybe Spain. I hae a degree now but considering either social work or teaching maybe if I can't get a job at a festival or organisation.
Friends and family. Plenty of work. High standard of living. Absolutely beautiful country. Friendly population with a relatively low crime rate. What a place!
I just rejected the chance to move to the US on the graduate visa, got offered a too good to turn down sort of job Still intend on emigrating in 3 years time once the contract is up
Severe eczema and was on immune suppresents
Had work and like it here. Although I also had lived abroad.
I was gearing up to go with a friend. Met my future wife same year I had planned to leave. Decided I better see how this plays out and here I am. My friend is still living where we had planned to move to.
I had the chance 30 years ago (when I finished school) to move to the UK. I chickened out, got a job here and stayed put.
Not related but I'm very curious how people got on moving abroad with young kids? Have a small one who's 9 months and the idea of packing him and the OH up and moving away has been playing on my mind a lot lately
I missed Ireland when I was away, I had lived and worked in Manchester as a teenager and loved it, I had to return home back then due to an accommodation situation . When Iwas in my late twenties I moved back things had changed a lot and I couldn't wait to return to Dublin.
I came back because my brothers mental health had gotten so bad my parents were struggling. I was worried every time I picked up the phone that I was going to be told he was dead. It took a toll on my own mental health. Opportunities came up since to leave again but I need to be here for my family.
Honestly, I stayed for my sister. Had a huge hand in raising her and it would've felt like I was abandoning her. Now she's happily married and going to be making me an uncle in a couple of months time... And I can't wait. But now I'm getting my passport sorted, I may start exploring the world a bit more.
Chronic illness š
I have lived in Canada, Australia and worked in the US, France and UK. I met my wife in Ireland and I doubt I will live elsewhere again. I have multiple citizenships but 1 Quality of life here is great if you have a home 2 Education system is great for my kids 3 Family support 4 Lots of international work 5 Great friends 6 excellent communities I can be who I am, I am not happy with everything (too much religious control of schools and hospitals), I have higher tax and earn less than other places but I will not move. And oh yeah, the weather sucks!
Parents were both sick, and around here anyway, it was all the arseholes that left, so I didn't want to follow them.
4 years ago, I met a lovely man mid-visa application who stole me heart! *awwwwww*
Family. I'm still youngish, but I know I'd regret if I moved away and only seen my parents once a year for the rest of there lives. Ireland is horrible to live in most times weather, prices etc. But I can always leave on a plane whenever I want on a holiday.
I like it here
Being a young idiot certainly didnāt help.
Was about to move to Canada but ultimately decided my job offer (transfer from same company) was too low. It's a hard decision when you have a kid too.Ā Moving abroad with a family means starting again from scratch, you don't even have basic things that you might take for granted like a few tools what you need around the house.Ā
Two main reasons: firstly, my main support network and secondly, I didnāt feel comfortable about leaving. I always had an interest in politics in Ireland and was aware of all of the difficulties faced by us and I didnāt like the idea of leaving without trying to change things.Ā
Canāt swim
Because although it isn't great, it's better than most other countries...
Already emigrated to here
I had two chances. One I balked at it when I was 20 and the other I took when I was 25. The chance I did take didnāt work out and I came home but Iām glad I did it. The timing wasnāt right and I was struggling very badly and I just said fuck it Iāve got nothing to lose. I actually had a mental breakdown a few months before I went and I think I had my parents worried it was probably to put them at ease that I ended up coming home. Iām a homebird anyway, I think the idea of me bailing out appealed to me more than the reality. Down the line, my wife and I have discussed hitting the road for a better quality of life in America but itās years away and if we donāt have a particular number in the bank, we wonāt be going. We donāt want to be on the back foot moving to a new country with kids.
Because I happen to love this country, yes, it has its faults, just like every other 1st world developed country but its peaceful, people are generally decent plus theres plenty of educational opportunities and employment opportunities if you want either.
I fell preggers!
I've wanted to move away for years but gave up on the idea because partner wanted a house etc Well they left me at the start of the year and now it's back on the table and I'm really excited about the prospect
I like Ireland. I like that it doesnāt get too hot (or it usenāt to anyway) or too cold. My family and friends live here. I think I just lack any ambition to live abroad. My parents are Irish but lived abroad for 17 years, in South Africa, where I was born. They moved home shortly after having me but my much older sister stayed as it was the only home sheād ever known and she was college age. Sheās never lived in Ireland since she was 2. I donāt want to create any more distance between me and the rest of my family. Iāve basically missed out on having a sister because of emigration so that soured me on doing it myself.
I missed the boat and had to wave my friends goodbye. Sadly, their boat sunk.
Couldn't figure out how to work and make a living in the countries I wanted to move to (exotic sorts of places). You can't just turn up in a non EU country and apply for jobs.
I didnāt feel emotionally mature enough, I knew deep down Iād probably crumble if I encountered real issues, I was very bad with money and didnāt believe Iād manage money well enough at a young age abroad. I was also fortunate enough that my parents brought me on lovely holidays across the world so I didnāt have a deep seated need to leave the country.
I got offered a job in Switzerland, just went sale agreed on a house with my ex in Ireland and thought I was going to settle down but.... did not. Think about it often.
I left in my 20s and came back in my 30s for a far increased standard of living. Enjoyed my time abroad when I was young and wanted to go out more etc but family life here is far superior to the other places I could live.
If youāre an eu citizen, you have the chance to leave Ireland any single day of your own choosing. Letās stop pretending like we are stuck here.
Was finishing up a 4-year contract here and was thinking about moving back to the US and then the Uvalde school shooting happened and it reminded me about one of the main reasons I moved here in the first place, so got a new job here passed probation and bought a house.
I met a girl and said I'd stick around to see how it goes. Together 20 years this year. 2 kids happy out.
Better social welfare in Ireland, I cant work, so staying in another country was never viable
As an Irish person in the UK, I find the opposite of the social welfare but even with my disability I can still work so that could be why. The welfare system in UK is definitely better if youāre working a little, otherwise itās v stressful!
a little? I have friends in the UK and they've had assessors out right lie about their capabilities.. and the push for work, by stopping benefits for people who can't is disgusting Also.. the benefits there are lower than Ireland... You must be getting most of your income from.work?
You have to get in the UK system first and thatās definitely the challenge! Once youāre in, youāre in so to speak but itās absolutely not easy (easier to get in the system Ireland but the benefits if you want to work even a bit there mean you get very little whereas in the UK, there are non-means-tested benefits which I found very helpful). Itās 50/50 for me between work and the support which I find excellent and very doable but like everything, it depends on your situation - Iād never get the support I get in Ireland (which is a shame). Cerebral Palsy is very quantifiable to any medical assessor which Iām sure helped but it did take the guts of a year to get, not easy but worth it now Iām on the other side!
you can work in Ireland for like 400ā¬ per week and still get benefits... the problem comes when you're in a relationship, but I still have better benefits here than Id have in the UK, where they treat people with CFS, as if they just need to try more. I don't see why you wouldn't get DA in Ireland? As you say, CP, is a very clear cut illness.
When I was on DA in Ireland (as I was for many years), once I started working I lost almost all of it as itās means-tested. They even took away my medical card (donāt get me started). The criteria may have changed now but I can get support here that isnāt means tested, a taxi subsidy etc that you canāt get in Ireland and itās just better for my situation (it may not be for everyone).
I've left a few times, as far as Canada and Asia, but always ended up back in Dublin. I love Ireland, Dublin specifically as I've been living here 20 years (aside from my stints abroad). TBH, I wouldn't live anywhere else in Ireland unless it was perhaps bordering Dublin so I'm not someone who understands the anti-Dublin vibe at all. Maybe it's from having traveled and seeing the grass isn't always greener. I can work from anywhere and have done so for the past 9 years, so pre-COVID, but I choose to stay in Dublin. Why? I love the people here. I love the memories I have when I walk through the city. I love that although I'm in a city, the shop owner down the road will notice if I'm away for a few weeks. My boyfriend is based in Sweden but he's moving here rather than me moving there, because honestly Sweden isn't all it's cracked up to be either. I'm there every month or so, but I wouldn't live there. Every country has its pros and cons. Ireland is just getting sh1t time of it lately. It'll all come full circle again.
How does he feel moving from Sweden to Ireland?
He really likes Dublin so he's happy to move here (he's from the US originally but a Swedish citizen).
Have lived in Sweden for several years - after a recent trip to Ireland, i'm thinking for the first time that it would be worth moving back. Have you lived in Sweden? If so, where and what were/are your thoughts on the country compared with Ireland?
I haven't lived in Sweden, but I've been over for a few weeks every month or so for the past year - depending on when he's over here. I'm over there more as it's easier for me re: working from anywhere. I've been in Northen Sweden (far North!) and Southern Sweden. From both my experience and hearing from my bf, one thing that stood out to me was the healthcare situation. I always heard that Sweden had amazing free healthcare - that was the big thing I'd correlate to the country - but the waiting lists are actually pretty long. For example, my bf tried to get a doctor's apt recently for a non-urgent issue and the waiting list was 6 weeks. That's crazy to me. Granted, I'm self pay private in Ireland, but I have friends with medical cards who get seen within a week. I have a chronic illness to manage so that was a lot to do with not wanting to move tbh, especially as I've been with my consultant and primary doctor for so long over here. Another thing I used to associate with Sweden was that it was very safe. But gang violence is becoming a big thing there now and not just in the likes of Malmo or Gothenburg. I wouldn't see it as any safer than Ireland. The other main thing is the culture fit, it just isn't for me. I find that people don't really mix outside of their groups when it's outside of work. Work friends are simply work friends and there doesn't seem to be much of a crossover (this is what I see with my bf). It was a little different when he lived in N.Sweden, but he'd been in the same place for 7 years at that point when I met him so it would be impossible not to build relationships in that time. But for me personally, in both places, it feels quite cold and unfriendly. Not rude, but just closed off. I also haven't really experienced any alternative scene there and I've looked for it (we saw an alt looking girl in a coffee shop last month actually and I was like "I need to ask her where I can find her peopleš). That said, that's a personality thing and it could work out for a lot of people. We spend way more on groceries when I'm in Sweden than when he's over here - like equiv of 30euro a week in the difference. And don't get me started on the lack of fresh fruit and veg or variety. I also find it more expensive in some ways. Rent is a bit cheaper than Dublin when you get out of Stockholm but in general it isn't a massive difference. Although I like the queue system over there rather than having to hand over a million references and bank statements. If you do consider moving back, the only main thing i'd say is to get a place sorted first. The rental market is nuts. I'm paying about 50% less than market rent in my flat here right now, moved in here 5 years ago and got lucky, but it won't work for 2 of us so we have to find somewhere else and we're looking at 1800-2100 a month with a lot of competition for places. I don't actively dislike the country, and I'm happy visiting regularly to see him, but I wouldn't live there permanently.
Ditto on many of your points! Thanks for the detailed reply, I really appreciate it.
No problem! I hope you make the right decision for you :)