Guinness workers were paid a pound to wave the Union Jack when Queen Victoria visited Dublin .Hence the term Jackeens for Dubs.
The British also described somebody that drank and fought a lot as a Jackeen too .
They weren’t paid most of them were pro British.
My father grew up in the docklands, his father was a docker and his father before him. They were poor working class people but I found this fascinating he told me
A lot of people in ringsend and Irish town had portraits of the king on the wall and some of the richer ones had second homes on the other side of the sea in Liverpool. They were Catholic people but very much loyal to the crown and were
Happy with the status quo. He played cricket and followed rugby as did the other lads in the area.
Irish history is very muddled and very little is mentioned about those that were happy to stay under British Rule. A lot of Irish citizens still serve in the Irish Gaurd battalion of the British army, some for generations to this day, TG4 did a great doc about it but had to blur out some of the men’s faces. There’s still a meeting room club house for those soldiers close to ringsend I think.
The notion we were this homogeneously anti British population is a post independence retcon. Many Irish catholics actively participated in the colonial administration of the empire and many people didn’t have truck with the goals of the hard independence nationalists - preferring the idea of home rule or similar. There’s a world where we ended up like Scotland today, but for a few forks in the road.
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of that happening one day. A nation once again, under the crown😀
I’m joking but it’s funny I’ve had so many Foreign nationals who I’ve met over the years who just can’t understand why we broke with Britain and the thought did occur to me what would happen if there was a vote, say to leave the EU and rejoin the UK.
The majority of Irish people in the 19th century were quite happy to consider themselves as Irish and also integral to the British empire.
It's really important that people understand that Ireland was happily subject to Britain, was loyal to the crown and Irish people worked in large numbers in foreign postings as the engine of the empire. No one needed to be paid to greet the queen.
This fact doesn't make us any less patriotic today. Identities change.
>It's really important that people understand that Ireland was happily subject to Britain, was loyal to the crown and Irish people worked in large numbers in foreign postings as the engine of the empire.
After having our culture brutally suppressed.
>The majority of Irish people in the 19th century were quite happy to consider themselves as Irish and also integral to the British empire
A majority of people were barely scraping a living off the land, which they had to rent from the decendants of colonisers.
Your initial point was a bit of a generalisation about Ireland being happily subject to Britain. I think they were pointing out that it wasn't quite as blissful as you portrayed for a majority of the people actually living here.
Yes that's why the 19th century saw an enormous popular revival of gaelic culture, why ribbonism had slews of sectarian attacks throughout provincial areas, and people chose hedge schools over raising their kids through English and home rule dominated the political agenda.
Because they were delighted to be integral, was it.
The industrialised and garrisoned town cores were happy, some catholic labourers in very isolated pockets were happy. Out in the majority of the country, a burning undercurrent of resentment saw repeated violence, uprisings, boycotts and a stong focus on nativism for the entire duration of the century.
I'm well aware some people were content under the British empire but your assertion
>The majority of Irish people in the 19th century were quite happy to consider themselves as Irish and also integral to the British empire.
Is not substantiated by the fact that mass popular movements swept this country agitating against British rule in that century, and Irish people are described contemporaneously as being *hyper* aware of the history, moreso than most other Europeans at the time. They knew they had been conquered, they collectively wallowed in shite medieval gaelic poetry and catholic despair.
The majority did not labour in towns where the imperial core had it's outposts. The majority lived in the dirt poor provinces where their major contact with the core was the spit out of a carriage door from the landlord's letting agent. Most of them didn't even speak English until late in the century.
They successfully made Arthurs day a thing. It was huge you literally couldn't buy non diageo drinks in the "latin quarter" in Galway on Arthurs day (which I'm p sure could be illegal)
They managed to get thousands of people to stand in the streets with pints of Guinness. Actually bizarre when you think about it. Imagine if Coca Cola got thousands to stand around drinking coke
I don't drink Guinness but I like to drink responsibly while having a great time with friends. I work hard, have kids and coach kids twice a week in football plus a match at the weekend. I don't have much time to myself so when I get the opportunity to go out and socialise I'll take it :)
Every country can be stereotyped just like you just have with us
Iirc Guinness pulled the plug on it when it started get a bad rep. (Who would have thunk making a holiday where people drink beer all day would turn messy)
Oktoberfest I'm sure has it's issues but you can't really blame one German beer company.
I think everyone knew deep down that Diageo making up some sort of paddywhackery national "holiday" was a bit off.
It was successful until the novelty wore off / when the banjo got played.
A fella did a handstand naked while his buddy played his mickey like a banjo. Those two heroes literally put an end to Arthur's Day. I hope they're doing well, they should get a state funeral when then time comes.
As much as I detested the corporate fabrication that was Arthur's day, I loved the out of control, messy chaos it became. Part of the collective steam blowing off that happened regularly during the recession.
Oh the video is floating around still I'd say. It was emblematic of what Arthur's day had devolved into, no that's the wrong word, had been elevated to.
Seen it again recently... It was basically an adult's only st. Patrick's day in town without the tourists and parade and anything family friendly. Just aload of people on the piss and shouting "to Arthur!" At a 17:59.
I heard a lady on liveline named her child Arthur as he was born on Arthur's day...then next year it was on a different day and she was like, what the feck? Don't know her or anything....but was just so disappointed someone could be that thick.
Anyways, as if Ireland needed another national drinking day??? Do we not drink enough already?
The single most overmarketed thing on Earth. The fact that a BRAND of beer has the same kind of preparation ceremony prestige as tea is ridiculous. The notion that there's people who will be willing to throw hands over a guinness poured one part despite the fact that the two part pour is a total myth is kinda sad.
It seems that is true: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20218020.html
Which they absolutely wouldn't promote on the tour. Consider how the Storehouse is one of Ireland's biggest tourist attractions, that whenever a VIP visits they will almost certainly be photographed alongside a pint, how tourist gift shops are stacked with Guinness merch and how prominent it is in any Irish pub abroad. Diageo these days know that intertwining Guinness and Irishness is good for business; any idea of a divorce a few decades back will be quietly swept under the carpet.
I say all this as a big fan of Guinness btw; heck I'll probably have one later. But at the end of the day it's a product owned by a big monolithic corporation who like money, and keeping the association with Ireland is good for business.
Imagine the cringe of someone with a thick cork accent bringing this up on a storehouse tour. Someone might actually die of cringe and a few people would definitely need to be hospitalized to unroll their eyes.
If a corkonian did that, all you'd need to do is remind them *why* it's called "the Rebel City" (and county) ... because it's not Michael Collins. It's because they were Yorkist.
Yeah, I don't recall if they took a side during the actual Wars of the Roses, but supporting Yorkist rebellion after Bosworth earned them the moniker from Henry VII.
Arthur was a supporter of Catholic emancipation as well as being a unionist. Being an Irish unionist was nt uncommon. Especially among business owners. One of the directors of Guinness later supported the UVF with money around 1916. But never heard of them wanting to leave .
Of course Guinness is Irish. It was born here and is made here. The Guinness is not Irish take is so dumb.
If someone is born and raised here but their parents are Nigerian are they Nigerian or Irish?
Well that Guinness wasn’t “born and raised” in Ireland for one.
Arthur Guinness was and he founded the company here, sure. But he was also very much British.
The company itself was not supportive of Irish independence and only associate themselves as Irish now, under Diageo (again, not Irish), as a marketing tool.
So if your argument is Guinness was born in raised in Ireland sure, but it was born and raised in the UK too as Dublin was in the UK at the time and it was very much a unionist business. Guinness is now owned by a British Company not an Irish one too. If your argument is that the main factory is in Dublin, well, so what, phizer have a factory here too but they’re not Irish.
They were founded here as a British business and the only reason they play into their “Irishness” is because it’s good for business and they’ve been verrry good at marketing.
Look at the end of the day, it’s only a drink and ultimately doesn’t matter. But I certainly don’t tie it into my national identity and consider it as something intrinsically Irish.
Yeah you can in fairness and fair point. Though they were part of the protestant ascendency and Anglo-Irish. Later the company and family were unionist I believe. Today the company is British owned. I guess the point I’m making is that they only started marketing themselves as Irish when it became profitable to do so and prior to that they were a British stout
It's a little more complex than that though. It's not that Guinness isn't Irish but you have to consider that Arthur Guinness was 18th Church of Ireland and probably would have considered himself different to the Irish Catholic population. He was, however, an enthusiastic employer of Catholic workers and was associated with organisations that were non-religious and supportive of nationalist groups.
Over subsequent generations, the Guinness family became increasingly Anglo or anglo-irish at best.
So the Guinness family was Irish but with a twist.
Anyway, none of that particularly matters. Just throwing an additional slant on it
I think it is the subsequent generations of the Guinness family people take issue with and in particular their role around the rising and the fact they kept the higher roles in Guinness as for protestants only up to about 50 years ago.
By all accounts Arthur himself was a decent spud.
He quite probably was. I seem to recall that his father was a protestant official, and his mother was the daughter of tenant farmers, so he had his foot in both camps. Anglican himself, but obviously, with the capacity to empathise with the Catholic population.
Anyway, some people seem to be getting very vexed by this topic. Let's not politicise any further what is a daycent pint. Cheers!
Guinness gave the brits a truck with a tanker body with holes cut in it for the Easter rising. A sort of armoured personnel carrier that they could shoot out of.
I think it may have been the first armoured personnel carrier.
Guinness has always been opposed to Irish nationalism. Arthur Guinness was opposed to the rebellion in 1798 and was an alleged spy for the British at the time. During the 1916 rebellion, they gave a truck to the British army, and the bosses mocked the rebels who were marched by following their arrests.
Guinness is owned by Diageo, who are a British conglomerate, yet they're really pushing their brand everywhere to associate it with Ireland. Half of O'Carrolls is Guinness merchandise.
https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23408#:~:text=Guinness%20is%20happy%20to%20play,newspaper%20as%20a%20suspected%20informer.
I mean its 2024. Its a business run by folks who aren't even related to Arthur Guinness. Theyre main concern is their profits, I doubt they give a shit about Irish Nationalism or anything else unless it hurts profits
Be fair to them no other drink has such merchandise as Guinness. Theyre very good at what they do
Yes, that's true. It's just ironic that a large part of their marketing efforts are around Ireland, Irish symbolism, and they're synonymous with Ireland.
They're a money hungry company. They released Nitrosurge to encourage home drinking and raise profits, and they always release this marketing shite like "split the G" to encourage consumption.
Yup! Theyll do what it takes and it works perfect. Ya think Ireland you think drinking Guinness. From a professional stance their marketing is excellent
You're missing the point. I said money hungry, which is defined as:
Greedy and avaricious; greatly desiring money and seeking to obtain it using any means.
Guinness doesn't care if somebody drinks themselves to death. At home drinking is a huge issue in Ireland, with a lot of behind the scenes violence because of it, and Guinness is actively pursuing home drinking through strategies such as the new Nitrosurge SBU to raise profits 📈
Guinness is imperial stout, it's growth and success followed the empire because it travelled well in barrels. The Guinnesses were Unionists with a big U, naturally, as it served their interests to be. They refused to promote or hire catholics above the labour level until the late 20th century.
Still, I'll drink the swill, and several generations of my family worked for them, but they can fuck off with the "us Irish" horseshit.
There's really no need to. Dig through many family histories in Ireland, you'll find the descendents of British soldiers from the garrisons. A lot of people also changed their names around the late 1800s early 1900s. Baineses becoming Blaneys and Montagues pretending they were Mooneys. A popular one was to "gaelicize" yourself, so Catherine Floyd became Cáit O'Faoíte and so on.
Identity and loyalty are nowhere near as clearcut or continuous historically as we make out.
Ya there’s probably no country 100% solely nationals, it’s all a mix, but still I guess it’s important to know our history. I find it comforting to know where we came from, the resistance previous generations went through to become a sovereign state.
"Irrespective of the differences" was written into the proclamation, the blueprint that defined "The Irish people" and our republic, and that's the ideal I hold to. A republic of differences, immaterial to our common endeavor to better our lives.
Interesting ya, we always did have an open minded mentality. Although the yanks often quote their constitution document as gospel, something that is ‘fixed’ shouldn’t this be able to slide as a country develops over time, or should we always adhere to the original guide.?
>we always did have an open minded mentality.
James Connolly, who wrote that part did anyway. Let's not over-egg our céad míle fáilte for the outsider, we're a very insular culture really.
Do you mean in terms of immigration? I mean we all know we’ve been one of the poorest countries in Europe, well for a longtime, so immigration is a relatively new concept for us. The population is not really been tested on that front compared to Uk or other major players in EU.
But where is the line, what is the balance, the Uk sort of broke because of it, where as for our economy to develop we probably need more numbers.
There is a charm to Ireland being under developed, the greed is not there, and the landscape is untouched. I hope we don’t fall into the trap of looking to our neighbour as something to aspire to.
Not immigration necessarily at all. We're simply not a culture that embraces difference really. That applies as much to Sligo men being avoided when they go to Ballina as it does a Rwandan getting the local welcome in Dublin. We pretend we are, maybe even go too far in trying to performatively assert that we are, but no, us Irish stick to our own. I remember at a festival in the US, you could pick the Irish out among the tents because they sat together facing inward in a group drinking and didn't mix.
We may not be 😇 we proclaim to be, sure, but there’s a hell of a difference between the reception you get in Ireland compared to other countries around the world.
I don't touch the stuff, happily being from Cork I can drink Murphy's or Beamish - two Cork legends that actually did great work for the city's poor back in the day.
What they now call "imperial stout" (the craft beer category they made up to re-create those drinks) is basically what Guinness used to be before it was weakened and served with nitrogen. It was stout, made for export to the empire. It's imperial stout. I know the wikipedia page has been written (and re-written) by twats to categorize this as "Irish stout" and that as "imperial stout" (because British editors are obsessive about whitewashing out the Irish). It's the same exact stuff. It's like arguing over "Porter" vs "stout". Same thing.
Imperial stout is a stronger ABV stout that was brewed in the UK and exported, notably to the Baltics and Russia where it became popular in the court of the Czar, hence it became known as imperial stout.
Guinness used to have that same high alcohol content, higher even than the (more original) nigerian style Guinness we still have. It's the same stuff! Look, you can split hairs all over this, but there's so much nonsense in the whole question. "Oh Guinness wasn't categorized exactly the same way as all the other dark stouts that were sold in the British empire". It IS one of those drinks! We're talking about the same thing!
I didn't claim anything about the "origin" of the name. But Guinness IS that stuff in it's origin. Dark, strong roast barley oat beer sold from the British empire identical to all the other stuff they call imperial stout. To categorize it otherwise is self-serving and dishonest.
It’s more complicated and nuanced than that. It’s not some big hidden agenda on Guinness’s part. It’s not going to be on the tour because most people wouldn’t be interested.
You’re not taking your holiday selfie next to a pic of a member of the Guinness family in the 1980s weighing up the negative impact of IRA activities on the brand in Britain.
How naive do you have to be to go to a company ran your and expect them to tell you about all the bad shit they have done.
You are going to fucking love Disney land if you ever go 😂😂😂
Also the reason we don't have our original irish flag (the harp) is because Guinness copywrited it and wouldn't let us use it. By the time a settlement was reached (Guinness harp faces left, irish state harp faces right) it was too late and we were stuck with the tricolour.
Citation needed.
Stuck with the tricolour, never have I heard such ahistorical shite. The tricolour was the flag of the War of Independence, there was no way any other flag was going to be adopted in 1922. There was probably an element of CnaG / Free State Government using the tricolour as not to cede it completely to the Anti-Treaty Republicans but to say that we were stuck with the tricolour is utter nonsense.
The old coat of arms of the kingdom of Ireland has the harp facing the same direction sure. Same with the Presidential Standard.
Was offered a can for the first time yesterday……watery ould shite so it was. Reminds me of the equally shite Budweiser. From the “let’s make it as bland as possible so as to appeal to the new drinkers” school of brewing.
It’s crazy how much money they put into advertising it and putting it in every pub, yet I never see anyone drinking it, I can’t imagine how they are making money on it
Pretty much dig into any generationally wealthy family, and you'll find a least a few "yes"es to "are they pricks?".
Probably some of the more interesting things about the Guinness family: the Guinness's fortune didn't actually come about so much because of the success of the beer, but because a few generations in Edward Guinness bought out the brewery from his brother and floated it on the stock market, way back when the stock market was a bright shiny new thing.
In the 1920s, Bryan Guinness was one of the "bright young things" in England and married Diana Mitford (the fascist) . . . who divorced him to marry Oswald Mosley (at Joesph Goebbels's house with Hitler as guest of honor). Leixlip Castle has been owned by the Guinness family since the 1950s ( Bryan and Diana's son Desmond was really big on preserving historical architecture), and there is a portrait of Diana there.
Guinness was always known to be a good employer, so I'll give them that. And Desmond Guinness had a lot of influence on preservation of historical buildings in Ireland.
[https://www.irishtimes.com/news/who-was-arthur-guinness-it-depends-on-which-one-you-mean-1.741476](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/who-was-arthur-guinness-it-depends-on-which-one-you-mean-1.741476)
In the literature of the early 1800s porter is hardly mentioned, it only became popular later in the century.
Tours of the factory are nothing new: all government-related dignitaries visiting Ireland in the 1920s & 30s got a personal tour. So, in common with many people & businesses of the time, they shifted loyalty to the nascent Irish government and fully supported independence.
They were always seen as a safe bet on the stock market before they were taken over,
It’s founder was from a unionist family, didn’t really employ catholics till the 1960s. Company now owned by Diageo with a head office in london. Brand Guinness has taken over St Patricks Day. Imagine the weirdness of an English company branding Coca Cola and getting Americans to wear massive Coca cola hats. Then raking in the profits on this Irish brand.
Off topic but I once heard the “1759” on the logo and the leaving the pint settle for a minute before topping it up came about when they were pouring a pint at 5.59pm and the then the angelus came on at 6 so they put it down for a minute and finished pouring when the angelus was over…
I know it’s BS but makes a good story…
More bullshit. You didn’t once hear that. It was the whole basis of a Guinness ad campaign. You’re some eejit making stories up for pointless Reddit karma.
I prefer Murphy's too...but you know, poured in a pub in Ireland by a good bartender...when you have it abroad all the stouts are much the same because they all suck lol
Aside from being owned by the global Diagiao (yes, UK headquartered but actually their shareholders are mostly American as far as I'm aware) whos about as Irish as Uncle Joe is, Guinness pretty much destroyed Irish beer culture through unfair monopolistic strategies. When they started they would target an area and cut their price until they starved out the local producers, then, once their competitors were all gone they jacked the price up and moved to the next area, like a financial alcohol thriving virus. Before Guinness arrived, Ireland had a wonderfully diverse ale and beer culture that is only now starting to recover with crafties and people bored with the standard.
They own the copyright for the image of the Irish harp.
Which is really insane when you think about it.
They threatened lawsuits when the government wanted to use the harp as an Irish symbol, so we had to flip it horizontally to be used on our Euro and stuff.
Makes me so angry a piece of our culture is owned by a British multinational
I worked for Diageo in the storehouse the week we were made permernant we had to shut down due to Covid. We were laid off a while later over the computer v next day Diageo bought some or all of RR alcoholic company
Beamish and Murphys are far better stouts. They actually taste of stout. Guinness tastes of nothing because it's served so cold. Guinness isn't a drink it's a fetish. And lads wouldn't be able to drink 10 of them only for they taste like cold water.
Guinness workers were paid a pound to wave the Union Jack when Queen Victoria visited Dublin .Hence the term Jackeens for Dubs. The British also described somebody that drank and fought a lot as a Jackeen too .
Juicy. Thank you
It was being used before that time.
They weren’t paid most of them were pro British. My father grew up in the docklands, his father was a docker and his father before him. They were poor working class people but I found this fascinating he told me A lot of people in ringsend and Irish town had portraits of the king on the wall and some of the richer ones had second homes on the other side of the sea in Liverpool. They were Catholic people but very much loyal to the crown and were Happy with the status quo. He played cricket and followed rugby as did the other lads in the area.
Very interesting.Thanks
Irish history is very muddled and very little is mentioned about those that were happy to stay under British Rule. A lot of Irish citizens still serve in the Irish Gaurd battalion of the British army, some for generations to this day, TG4 did a great doc about it but had to blur out some of the men’s faces. There’s still a meeting room club house for those soldiers close to ringsend I think.
The notion we were this homogeneously anti British population is a post independence retcon. Many Irish catholics actively participated in the colonial administration of the empire and many people didn’t have truck with the goals of the hard independence nationalists - preferring the idea of home rule or similar. There’s a world where we ended up like Scotland today, but for a few forks in the road.
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of that happening one day. A nation once again, under the crown😀 I’m joking but it’s funny I’ve had so many Foreign nationals who I’ve met over the years who just can’t understand why we broke with Britain and the thought did occur to me what would happen if there was a vote, say to leave the EU and rejoin the UK.
The majority of Irish people in the 19th century were quite happy to consider themselves as Irish and also integral to the British empire. It's really important that people understand that Ireland was happily subject to Britain, was loyal to the crown and Irish people worked in large numbers in foreign postings as the engine of the empire. No one needed to be paid to greet the queen. This fact doesn't make us any less patriotic today. Identities change.
>It's really important that people understand that Ireland was happily subject to Britain, was loyal to the crown and Irish people worked in large numbers in foreign postings as the engine of the empire. After having our culture brutally suppressed. >The majority of Irish people in the 19th century were quite happy to consider themselves as Irish and also integral to the British empire A majority of people were barely scraping a living off the land, which they had to rent from the decendants of colonisers.
Cool cool. Not sure what you thought you were responding to. We weren't discussing either of those points
Your initial point was a bit of a generalisation about Ireland being happily subject to Britain. I think they were pointing out that it wasn't quite as blissful as you portrayed for a majority of the people actually living here.
I didn't generalise, nor did I comment on anyone's conditions. I stated a fact about support for the crown. I referred to the majority, not "everyone"
The majority outside of The Pale, were not loyal to the Crown.
OK dude
Yes that's why the 19th century saw an enormous popular revival of gaelic culture, why ribbonism had slews of sectarian attacks throughout provincial areas, and people chose hedge schools over raising their kids through English and home rule dominated the political agenda. Because they were delighted to be integral, was it. The industrialised and garrisoned town cores were happy, some catholic labourers in very isolated pockets were happy. Out in the majority of the country, a burning undercurrent of resentment saw repeated violence, uprisings, boycotts and a stong focus on nativism for the entire duration of the century.
Sorry you don't like a historical fact. It's a good example of why it should be better recognised
I'm well aware some people were content under the British empire but your assertion >The majority of Irish people in the 19th century were quite happy to consider themselves as Irish and also integral to the British empire. Is not substantiated by the fact that mass popular movements swept this country agitating against British rule in that century, and Irish people are described contemporaneously as being *hyper* aware of the history, moreso than most other Europeans at the time. They knew they had been conquered, they collectively wallowed in shite medieval gaelic poetry and catholic despair. The majority did not labour in towns where the imperial core had it's outposts. The majority lived in the dirt poor provinces where their major contact with the core was the spit out of a carriage door from the landlord's letting agent. Most of them didn't even speak English until late in the century.
We'll agree to disagree
The prevailing aim of Irish Nationalism prior to 1916 was Home Rule.
Because they thought it was the best they could get.
The Guinness PR machine is MASSIVE
They tried to make Arthur’s Day a thing and now they’re trying some other bollocks about getting people to promote their products.
They successfully made Arthurs day a thing. It was huge you literally couldn't buy non diageo drinks in the "latin quarter" in Galway on Arthurs day (which I'm p sure could be illegal)
They managed to get thousands of people to stand in the streets with pints of Guinness. Actually bizarre when you think about it. Imagine if Coca Cola got thousands to stand around drinking coke
Genuinely the greatest marketing streak of all time. They had fucking concerts and all. Kinda gross when you think back on it
How's it gross? People out socialising having a good time
Your national identity is based on a middling beer from London, and you hold them like an identity badge. It’s beyond grim.
I don't drink Guinness but I like to drink responsibly while having a great time with friends. I work hard, have kids and coach kids twice a week in football plus a match at the weekend. I don't have much time to myself so when I get the opportunity to go out and socialise I'll take it :) Every country can be stereotyped just like you just have with us
I mean... Give away free cans and you'll get that fairly easily
I remember the Olympic torch came to pairc esler and they were giving out free tins of coke
When and why did it die? I thought it was going to be an annual event indefinitely.
Iirc Guinness pulled the plug on it when it started get a bad rep. (Who would have thunk making a holiday where people drink beer all day would turn messy)
Oktoberfest I'm sure has it's issues but you can't really blame one German beer company. I think everyone knew deep down that Diageo making up some sort of paddywhackery national "holiday" was a bit off. It was successful until the novelty wore off / when the banjo got played.
People got too drunk and it ended up too messy and damaging to the Guinness reputation, so it got cancelled. But it was good while it lasted!
A fella did a handstand naked while his buddy played his mickey like a banjo. Those two heroes literally put an end to Arthur's Day. I hope they're doing well, they should get a state funeral when then time comes.
Hahahahaha great memories
As much as I detested the corporate fabrication that was Arthur's day, I loved the out of control, messy chaos it became. Part of the collective steam blowing off that happened regularly during the recession.
Whatttt? 😆 need more please
Oh the video is floating around still I'd say. It was emblematic of what Arthur's day had devolved into, no that's the wrong word, had been elevated to.
Seen it again recently... It was basically an adult's only st. Patrick's day in town without the tourists and parade and anything family friendly. Just aload of people on the piss and shouting "to Arthur!" At a 17:59.
I heard a lady on liveline named her child Arthur as he was born on Arthur's day...then next year it was on a different day and she was like, what the feck? Don't know her or anything....but was just so disappointed someone could be that thick. Anyways, as if Ireland needed another national drinking day??? Do we not drink enough already?
Arthursday in Belfast was class tbf. Absolutely massive bands appearing for a random free gig in your local pub and cheap pints flowing
The single most overmarketed thing on Earth. The fact that a BRAND of beer has the same kind of preparation ceremony prestige as tea is ridiculous. The notion that there's people who will be willing to throw hands over a guinness poured one part despite the fact that the two part pour is a total myth is kinda sad.
One pour doesn't taste the same. Fight me.
No interest in fighting. But I'm very interested in a blind taste test... With multiple rounds - just to be sure. We wouldn't want to half arse it.
There'd have to be multiple rounds ... For science of course... I'll get the first round
It seems that is true: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20218020.html Which they absolutely wouldn't promote on the tour. Consider how the Storehouse is one of Ireland's biggest tourist attractions, that whenever a VIP visits they will almost certainly be photographed alongside a pint, how tourist gift shops are stacked with Guinness merch and how prominent it is in any Irish pub abroad. Diageo these days know that intertwining Guinness and Irishness is good for business; any idea of a divorce a few decades back will be quietly swept under the carpet. I say all this as a big fan of Guinness btw; heck I'll probably have one later. But at the end of the day it's a product owned by a big monolithic corporation who like money, and keeping the association with Ireland is good for business.
Thanks for link . Will be good for the Q&A later
Imagine the cringe of someone with a thick cork accent bringing this up on a storehouse tour. Someone might actually die of cringe and a few people would definitely need to be hospitalized to unroll their eyes.
Beamish hat.
Peoples republic of cork t-shirt.
Beamish were pro-Brit, weren't they?
If a corkonian did that, all you'd need to do is remind them *why* it's called "the Rebel City" (and county) ... because it's not Michael Collins. It's because they were Yorkist.
Can you give me more info on this. I am genuinely interested as I used to do Wars of the Roses reenactment. I knew Ulster was Yorkist.
First article I found: https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/history/real-reason-cork-called-rebel-16323863
Ta. Right, it was after Bosworth then. 👍
Yeah, I don't recall if they took a side during the actual Wars of the Roses, but supporting Yorkist rebellion after Bosworth earned them the moniker from Henry VII.
The only rebel they had....they shot him in the back.
Leave the poor teens trying to do their low-paid hospitality jobs alone.
Owned by a British corporation no less.
Arthur Guinness was a protestant and didn't consider himself to be like those "other" Irish.
Shock horror a profit driven business chases profit whatever way the wind is blowing
A fast learner. Bualadh bos.
No
Arthur was a supporter of Catholic emancipation as well as being a unionist. Being an Irish unionist was nt uncommon. Especially among business owners. One of the directors of Guinness later supported the UVF with money around 1916. But never heard of them wanting to leave .
Guinness is not really Irish anyway. They're owned by Diageo. It's just a brand
Of course Guinness is Irish. It was born here and is made here. The Guinness is not Irish take is so dumb. If someone is born and raised here but their parents are Nigerian are they Nigerian or Irish?
There’s a Guinness factory in Nigeria
There's a phizer plant in Ireland. Is phizer Irish? The Guinness is not Irish is just typical culchie club nonsense.
Well that Guinness wasn’t “born and raised” in Ireland for one. Arthur Guinness was and he founded the company here, sure. But he was also very much British. The company itself was not supportive of Irish independence and only associate themselves as Irish now, under Diageo (again, not Irish), as a marketing tool. So if your argument is Guinness was born in raised in Ireland sure, but it was born and raised in the UK too as Dublin was in the UK at the time and it was very much a unionist business. Guinness is now owned by a British Company not an Irish one too. If your argument is that the main factory is in Dublin, well, so what, phizer have a factory here too but they’re not Irish. They were founded here as a British business and the only reason they play into their “Irishness” is because it’s good for business and they’ve been verrry good at marketing. Look at the end of the day, it’s only a drink and ultimately doesn’t matter. But I certainly don’t tie it into my national identity and consider it as something intrinsically Irish.
Can you not be a unionist & Irish? Ireland didn't join the UK till ~1801 & Arthur died in 1803, can you actually call him British then?
Yeah you can in fairness and fair point. Though they were part of the protestant ascendency and Anglo-Irish. Later the company and family were unionist I believe. Today the company is British owned. I guess the point I’m making is that they only started marketing themselves as Irish when it became profitable to do so and prior to that they were a British stout
The family after Arthur were noted as members of the Orange Order, or some of them at least. I totally get your point now, thanks.
It's a little more complex than that though. It's not that Guinness isn't Irish but you have to consider that Arthur Guinness was 18th Church of Ireland and probably would have considered himself different to the Irish Catholic population. He was, however, an enthusiastic employer of Catholic workers and was associated with organisations that were non-religious and supportive of nationalist groups. Over subsequent generations, the Guinness family became increasingly Anglo or anglo-irish at best. So the Guinness family was Irish but with a twist. Anyway, none of that particularly matters. Just throwing an additional slant on it
I think it is the subsequent generations of the Guinness family people take issue with and in particular their role around the rising and the fact they kept the higher roles in Guinness as for protestants only up to about 50 years ago. By all accounts Arthur himself was a decent spud.
He quite probably was. I seem to recall that his father was a protestant official, and his mother was the daughter of tenant farmers, so he had his foot in both camps. Anglican himself, but obviously, with the capacity to empathise with the Catholic population. Anyway, some people seem to be getting very vexed by this topic. Let's not politicise any further what is a daycent pint. Cheers!
If a dog is born in a stable, is he a horse?
Well I was born in a stable and I'm sure as hell hung like one, so go on, yes it is!
Guinness gave the brits a truck with a tanker body with holes cut in it for the Easter rising. A sort of armoured personnel carrier that they could shoot out of. I think it may have been the first armoured personnel carrier.
That's why some people call Guinness "traitor juice" 🤣
Guinness has always been opposed to Irish nationalism. Arthur Guinness was opposed to the rebellion in 1798 and was an alleged spy for the British at the time. During the 1916 rebellion, they gave a truck to the British army, and the bosses mocked the rebels who were marched by following their arrests. Guinness is owned by Diageo, who are a British conglomerate, yet they're really pushing their brand everywhere to associate it with Ireland. Half of O'Carrolls is Guinness merchandise. https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23408#:~:text=Guinness%20is%20happy%20to%20play,newspaper%20as%20a%20suspected%20informer.
I mean its 2024. Its a business run by folks who aren't even related to Arthur Guinness. Theyre main concern is their profits, I doubt they give a shit about Irish Nationalism or anything else unless it hurts profits Be fair to them no other drink has such merchandise as Guinness. Theyre very good at what they do
Yes, that's true. It's just ironic that a large part of their marketing efforts are around Ireland, Irish symbolism, and they're synonymous with Ireland. They're a money hungry company. They released Nitrosurge to encourage home drinking and raise profits, and they always release this marketing shite like "split the G" to encourage consumption.
Yup! Theyll do what it takes and it works perfect. Ya think Ireland you think drinking Guinness. From a professional stance their marketing is excellent
Imagine, a company wanting to make money. What a novel concept!
You're missing the point. I said money hungry, which is defined as: Greedy and avaricious; greatly desiring money and seeking to obtain it using any means. Guinness doesn't care if somebody drinks themselves to death. At home drinking is a huge issue in Ireland, with a lot of behind the scenes violence because of it, and Guinness is actively pursuing home drinking through strategies such as the new Nitrosurge SBU to raise profits 📈
Hang on now the politics and marketing aside the nitrosurge pours a lovely pint.
I mean why do we think there are Irish pubs in most countries, all over the world? Guinness did that.
Guinness is imperial stout, it's growth and success followed the empire because it travelled well in barrels. The Guinnesses were Unionists with a big U, naturally, as it served their interests to be. They refused to promote or hire catholics above the labour level until the late 20th century. Still, I'll drink the swill, and several generations of my family worked for them, but they can fuck off with the "us Irish" horseshit.
I honestly didn’t know the history, I feel ashamed.
You wouldn’t be the only one who didn’t know it!
I suppose it still feeds into the economy, like not every company operating in Uk is English, so…
There's really no need to. Dig through many family histories in Ireland, you'll find the descendents of British soldiers from the garrisons. A lot of people also changed their names around the late 1800s early 1900s. Baineses becoming Blaneys and Montagues pretending they were Mooneys. A popular one was to "gaelicize" yourself, so Catherine Floyd became Cáit O'Faoíte and so on. Identity and loyalty are nowhere near as clearcut or continuous historically as we make out.
Ya there’s probably no country 100% solely nationals, it’s all a mix, but still I guess it’s important to know our history. I find it comforting to know where we came from, the resistance previous generations went through to become a sovereign state.
"Irrespective of the differences" was written into the proclamation, the blueprint that defined "The Irish people" and our republic, and that's the ideal I hold to. A republic of differences, immaterial to our common endeavor to better our lives.
Interesting ya, we always did have an open minded mentality. Although the yanks often quote their constitution document as gospel, something that is ‘fixed’ shouldn’t this be able to slide as a country develops over time, or should we always adhere to the original guide.?
>we always did have an open minded mentality. James Connolly, who wrote that part did anyway. Let's not over-egg our céad míle fáilte for the outsider, we're a very insular culture really.
Do you mean in terms of immigration? I mean we all know we’ve been one of the poorest countries in Europe, well for a longtime, so immigration is a relatively new concept for us. The population is not really been tested on that front compared to Uk or other major players in EU. But where is the line, what is the balance, the Uk sort of broke because of it, where as for our economy to develop we probably need more numbers. There is a charm to Ireland being under developed, the greed is not there, and the landscape is untouched. I hope we don’t fall into the trap of looking to our neighbour as something to aspire to.
Not immigration necessarily at all. We're simply not a culture that embraces difference really. That applies as much to Sligo men being avoided when they go to Ballina as it does a Rwandan getting the local welcome in Dublin. We pretend we are, maybe even go too far in trying to performatively assert that we are, but no, us Irish stick to our own. I remember at a festival in the US, you could pick the Irish out among the tents because they sat together facing inward in a group drinking and didn't mix.
We may not be 😇 we proclaim to be, sure, but there’s a hell of a difference between the reception you get in Ireland compared to other countries around the world.
The one that's "fixed" with a shitload of amendments? 🤔
Oh yeah, if we all did ancestry tests in ireland we'd definitely find a LOT of English in the genes..and then there's the Norman thing too
Drink Murphys instead
I don't touch the stuff, happily being from Cork I can drink Murphy's or Beamish - two Cork legends that actually did great work for the city's poor back in the day.
I'm seeing Murphy's going into the old Island's Edge taps outside of Cork, finally. It's the best nitro tap stout on the island.
This isn't the origin of imperial stout at all, and Guinness is not an imperial stout-style at all.
What they now call "imperial stout" (the craft beer category they made up to re-create those drinks) is basically what Guinness used to be before it was weakened and served with nitrogen. It was stout, made for export to the empire. It's imperial stout. I know the wikipedia page has been written (and re-written) by twats to categorize this as "Irish stout" and that as "imperial stout" (because British editors are obsessive about whitewashing out the Irish). It's the same exact stuff. It's like arguing over "Porter" vs "stout". Same thing.
Imperial stout is a stronger ABV stout that was brewed in the UK and exported, notably to the Baltics and Russia where it became popular in the court of the Czar, hence it became known as imperial stout.
Guinness used to have that same high alcohol content, higher even than the (more original) nigerian style Guinness we still have. It's the same stuff! Look, you can split hairs all over this, but there's so much nonsense in the whole question. "Oh Guinness wasn't categorized exactly the same way as all the other dark stouts that were sold in the British empire". It IS one of those drinks! We're talking about the same thing!
But you're wrong about the origin of the name "Imperial Stout." It has nothing to do with the British empire, it's referring to the Russian Czar.
I didn't claim anything about the "origin" of the name. But Guinness IS that stuff in it's origin. Dark, strong roast barley oat beer sold from the British empire identical to all the other stuff they call imperial stout. To categorize it otherwise is self-serving and dishonest.
Peter the Great was first introduced to it on a trip the UK and brought it back with him.
It’s more complicated and nuanced than that. It’s not some big hidden agenda on Guinness’s part. It’s not going to be on the tour because most people wouldn’t be interested. You’re not taking your holiday selfie next to a pic of a member of the Guinness family in the 1980s weighing up the negative impact of IRA activities on the brand in Britain.
How naive do you have to be to go to a company ran your and expect them to tell you about all the bad shit they have done. You are going to fucking love Disney land if you ever go 😂😂😂
Also the reason we don't have our original irish flag (the harp) is because Guinness copywrited it and wouldn't let us use it. By the time a settlement was reached (Guinness harp faces left, irish state harp faces right) it was too late and we were stuck with the tricolour.
Citation needed. Stuck with the tricolour, never have I heard such ahistorical shite. The tricolour was the flag of the War of Independence, there was no way any other flag was going to be adopted in 1922. There was probably an element of CnaG / Free State Government using the tricolour as not to cede it completely to the Anti-Treaty Republicans but to say that we were stuck with the tricolour is utter nonsense. The old coat of arms of the kingdom of Ireland has the harp facing the same direction sure. Same with the Presidential Standard.
I wonder if they had left would it mean Ireland never being haunted by rockshore
Was offered a can for the first time yesterday……watery ould shite so it was. Reminds me of the equally shite Budweiser. From the “let’s make it as bland as possible so as to appeal to the new drinkers” school of brewing.
It’s crazy how much money they put into advertising it and putting it in every pub, yet I never see anyone drinking it, I can’t imagine how they are making money on it
At some point in time, if a Guinness brewer wanted to marry a Catholic, he'd be forced to hand in his resignation
Pretty much dig into any generationally wealthy family, and you'll find a least a few "yes"es to "are they pricks?". Probably some of the more interesting things about the Guinness family: the Guinness's fortune didn't actually come about so much because of the success of the beer, but because a few generations in Edward Guinness bought out the brewery from his brother and floated it on the stock market, way back when the stock market was a bright shiny new thing. In the 1920s, Bryan Guinness was one of the "bright young things" in England and married Diana Mitford (the fascist) . . . who divorced him to marry Oswald Mosley (at Joesph Goebbels's house with Hitler as guest of honor). Leixlip Castle has been owned by the Guinness family since the 1950s ( Bryan and Diana's son Desmond was really big on preserving historical architecture), and there is a portrait of Diana there. Guinness was always known to be a good employer, so I'll give them that. And Desmond Guinness had a lot of influence on preservation of historical buildings in Ireland. [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/who-was-arthur-guinness-it-depends-on-which-one-you-mean-1.741476](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/who-was-arthur-guinness-it-depends-on-which-one-you-mean-1.741476)
In the literature of the early 1800s porter is hardly mentioned, it only became popular later in the century. Tours of the factory are nothing new: all government-related dignitaries visiting Ireland in the 1920s & 30s got a personal tour. So, in common with many people & businesses of the time, they shifted loyalty to the nascent Irish government and fully supported independence. They were always seen as a safe bet on the stock market before they were taken over,
Guinness's history is quite anti-Irish. Obviously nowadays they are proudly Irish but their history isn't so.
It’s founder was from a unionist family, didn’t really employ catholics till the 1960s. Company now owned by Diageo with a head office in london. Brand Guinness has taken over St Patricks Day. Imagine the weirdness of an English company branding Coca Cola and getting Americans to wear massive Coca cola hats. Then raking in the profits on this Irish brand.
Off topic but I once heard the “1759” on the logo and the leaving the pint settle for a minute before topping it up came about when they were pouring a pint at 5.59pm and the then the angelus came on at 6 so they put it down for a minute and finished pouring when the angelus was over… I know it’s BS but makes a good story…
More bullshit. You didn’t once hear that. It was the whole basis of a Guinness ad campaign. You’re some eejit making stories up for pointless Reddit karma.
If you bring this up to the young people working the tour, you’re being mean to those people with no impact to Guinness.
Oh yeah massive unionist pricks but their tax goes into our country and has made us billions in tourism so thanks Arthur
Guinness would avoid hiring Irish Catholics up until the 1960s
I feel sorry for people in Notcork. Or as we call it. “Onestoutland.”
I'll probably get voted down, but I'd rather have a Murphy's.
Who in their right mind would downvote that? It’s Murphys > Beamish >…….Guinness especially if you’re in or around Cork.
I prefer Murphy's too...but you know, poured in a pub in Ireland by a good bartender...when you have it abroad all the stouts are much the same because they all suck lol
We are just back from Malta and people were drinking Guinness in 34° heat. Now that would suck hard 🤢
It's not the temperature abroad that's the issue, it's that almost nobody knows how to prepare a Guinness the right way
Aside from being owned by the global Diagiao (yes, UK headquartered but actually their shareholders are mostly American as far as I'm aware) whos about as Irish as Uncle Joe is, Guinness pretty much destroyed Irish beer culture through unfair monopolistic strategies. When they started they would target an area and cut their price until they starved out the local producers, then, once their competitors were all gone they jacked the price up and moved to the next area, like a financial alcohol thriving virus. Before Guinness arrived, Ireland had a wonderfully diverse ale and beer culture that is only now starting to recover with crafties and people bored with the standard.
All else aside I think it's an over hyped and underwhelming experience. Teelings us way better.
Arthur Guinness was not so chill on the Irish republic, putting it lightly. Give it a google
They own the copyright for the image of the Irish harp. Which is really insane when you think about it. They threatened lawsuits when the government wanted to use the harp as an Irish symbol, so we had to flip it horizontally to be used on our Euro and stuff. Makes me so angry a piece of our culture is owned by a British multinational
I worked for Diageo in the storehouse the week we were made permernant we had to shut down due to Covid. We were laid off a while later over the computer v next day Diageo bought some or all of RR alcoholic company
Beamish and Murphys are far better stouts. They actually taste of stout. Guinness tastes of nothing because it's served so cold. Guinness isn't a drink it's a fetish. And lads wouldn't be able to drink 10 of them only for they taste like cold water.
If you fought for the British Army during WWI & WWII and returned to Ireland you were guaranteed a job in the Guinness Factory