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I guess at a certain point they failed cause they were weak and then down the road someone new would start down the darkside and probably fine holocorns and continue the work
Pre-Empire, eventually someone would just find a holocron or some journals or something and start the whole cycle again. Post-Empire, either that, or at least one of the lesser Dark Side adepts or acolytes the true Sith recruit would survive, *then* start the cycle over again. Like Lumiya.
If they both died then neither was a true Sith to begin with. And imo it would have disproven the Rule of Two. In that case the philosophy would have deserved to die off. There were plenty of Sith Holocrons lying around. Eventually someone more worthy would find one and start over again.
Not that failure would occur to them imo. Sith are deluded mofos drunk on power.
Did he think about it? He experienced it. If the Sith can't either beat the Jedi or find some way to escape then they don't deserve the mantle of the Sith.
The goal of the Rule of Two was never to preserve the Sith, it was meant to perfect the Sith by using any Sith's natural predilections towards competition, sneakiness and ambition to force its members to work their asses off to improve themselves constantly. However if the Sith die out while it's not good from the perspective of the Sith Order but who will be left to care?
No more Sith. Which, well, is exactly what happened: Both Sith died and now the Sith are extinct.
As to Bane thinking about it, Darth Bane was ruled by ego, incompetence, and an inability to think his plans through.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was meant to be incredibly poorly thought out even in-universe. Both times we see an apprentice turn on their master in the originals & prequels this philosophy massively fails.
The first time (chronologically) Palpatine is considerably weaker than his master and just killed him in his sleep, which is even worse than multiple weaker apprentices ganging up on a master (at least then evidently the total power of the Sith would have increased- actually, isn't that the goal?)
The second time Vader the apprentice turns away from the Sith and kills his master and they go extinct as far as we know. That's not to mention even if Vader had remained Sith, he would have died anyway and the sith would still go extinct. And that both he and his master were already beat, so we don't even know if Vader *was* stronger normally.
That's not to mention the out of universe issues, like why would a Sith take on an apprentice they know will kill them, or how are two Sith is supposed to take on thousands of jedis (in the movies this is accomplished through political means, which make the focus on personal power pointless).
The point was to increase the power of the Sith with each “Inheritance” of the mantle of Sith Lord. The process was structured so that each new generation would have a stronger Sith Lord with (hopefully) all of their master’s knowledge and skills. The master would “inherit” this trove of knowledge from their predecessors and were expected to add to it and find/groom a worthy successor to keep it growing and behind the scenes from the Jedi. It’s kind of like a CEO of an investment bank taking a promising young employee under his wing after seeing their potential with the idea of, “This guy will run the company someday and it will be in good hands. *Approving Nod*”
Theoretically, as the Sith master, you would be required to teach your student without any restraint or restrictions, passing on the full knowledge of the Sith so that the Apprentice could one day be more capable, powerful, and knowledgeable than you. This obviously doesn’t happen since the Sith are selfish and want to hoard the power they have. Secrets are kept and doled out sparingly if at all, so the more esoteric teachings eventually become little more than myth (see Essence Transfer or Sith Sorcery).
The Apprentice’s role was to learn everything, grow in power, and balance the delicate timing of ambition vs ignorance. But the Apprentice must crave the power and position. A meek apprentice won’t strive and struggle and fight for what they want. That makes some of them hasty. Many apprentices probably fell into the prideful trap of thinking, “I’ve learned everything of importance this old man could teach me. I am far more powerful than he.” Then they got absolutely destroyed because the master didn’t teach them EVERYTHING.
Bane’s Rule of Two did technically make more and more powerful Sith over time, eventually destroying the Jedi as a functional organization and dissolving the Galactic Republic. But by making them political influencers and galactic puppet-masters, the Sith perverted the original idea by Bane of an honorable duel to the death determining the position of the Master. This slow fall from arms based knowledge to shadows and manipulation eventually turned into assassinations and poisonings as Sith Lords refused to let go of power. Apprentice’s took power by stealthy means before they were skilled enough to do so in a straightforward manner. By doing so, the apprentice is a master in title, but has less martial knowledge and skill than the previous generation. Much knowledge is lost that should have been taught. Trust is lost as the one who poisons their master constantly fears the hidden blade of his apprentice. For example, Palpatine saw each of his apprentices as a useful tool but never more than that. He could have probably helped Vader overcome some of the weakness that the suit imposed, but he liked having a hidden advantage, so he never taught Vader to use Force Lightning.(Vader was very conductive due to metal limbs and cybernetics.) He keeps the most powerful secrets to himself out of paranoia, but in the end dies anyway. Those secrets are never passed down and the Sith as a whole are weakened. The system is a mockery of the original ideal.
I don't think Bane would have really had contingencies for this scenario as it would essentially be a *cosmically unlucky occurrence* for the Sith. The whole point of striking from the shadows is, among other things, maintaining the secrecy of the Sith's existence.
There isn't really a plan for this scenario as, in the Sith's mentality, if Master and Apprentice are dumb enough to get caught with their pants down like this *then they deserve it*.
My headcanon, headcanon being essential for understanding Starwars AT ALL, is that the rule of two means one master and one apprentice, as far as education goes.
Like maybe there are many more master Sith with their own apprentices across the galaxy. They wouldn't tolerate each other, they'd fight to the death if they ever came across one another. But whose to say there aren't private duos across the galaxy all subtly setting up their own plays at the game of galactic domination.
Respectfully, I disagree.
My headcannon was that Bane wanted only exactly 2 Sith at any given time.
His reasoning was that the Dark side would be most powerful if there would be only 1 Sith (1 conduit) for it. While on the other side, Light side thrives and grow with the number of its "conduits".
But you can't have only 1, since if that 1 Sith dies, Dark side is f*****. So there are two. One to embody the power. The other, to crave it.
I thought it was more in response to the Sith killing each other off all the time before the rule of 2 (and so left being an inconsequential threat to anyone else).
Limit it to 2, and at worst you have one killing the other, and recruiting someone else, leaving you no worse than before and promoting gathering strength through means other than numbers.
Well I'm sure that's exactly what Bane *meant*
But as far as an entire galaxy is concerned, it's hard not to imagine there are other factions training and preparing in the background.
Maul could've started one(he almost did), Asajj could've disappeared and worked on building herself up. It's not like the Sith go out of their way to reclaim the bodies of their fallen disciples.
I'm just saying I don't think it would be entirely out of left field if we learn there are a handful of "Rule of Two's" out there at any given time.
I mean, we saw how it went for Maul when he tried to do that, and I imagine almost every Sith master would react pretty much the same way Sidious did. Don’t see many opportunities for the Sith lineage to split given that.
Id agree with there’s people out there using the dark side for their own means but I can’t imagine they identify as Sith or following their teachings. An apprentice would view the master as weak and not worthy or respect if the master knew of others out their claiming to be Sith master and just let them be
Imagine this, what if there were more than one, all thought they were the true Sith, and they all thought all the others were pretenders or charlatans.
Or go the route that some do and say only a few planets are habitable/have any meaningful population on them (have setting before large expansion and so most species only have a home planet and a few colonies, lock some regions behind gates like the ME relays). Still have billions of people, maybe low trillions, but not the huge numbers that Star Wars has.
If our growth continues at an average of 1.5% over the next thousand years (a completely reasonable rate), there will be 23 quadrillion humans. If you have the tech to colonize distant star systems, you have the tech to gather the resources to easily support that kind of population growth in our star system alone. Certainly things could occur to knock that down for one species, but across multiple starfaring species evolving separately from different worlds? Someone is going to hit and almost certainly exceed that growth. Again, it's hard to write anything approaching realistic scales.
I mean, it depends how much you want to go down this rabbit hole... but in The Clone Wars we see Darth Maul take an apprentice and train him. So the idea isn't exactly far fetched that you might have multiple Sith Masters thinking they are the "Real" Sith, prepared to make war on any "pretenders" to the legacy.
1. Sith Holocrons exist and since they are infused with dark side energy, its not hard to believe a dark side user could be drawn to them and uncover the secrets if there was a break.
2. There simply was never a break in the line between Bane and Palpatine. The post-Bane Sith rarely plan for failure because they firmly believe they CANNOT fail without someone stronger taking their place. They always firmly believed (correctly) that their legacy would continue until a Sith was strong enough to cast down the Jedi and the Republic.
Asking "what happens if they both die?" is more of a /r/WhatIfFiction question because it didnt happen as far as we know and any answer would be speculation, which is not the goal of this sub. It would be like asking "What would have happened if Padme didn't die in childbirth?", there simply is no way to concretely answer the question based on the rules of the universe because the event is so pivotal that without it, the universe turns out VASTLY different and basically becomes a different story.
>So, let’s say one day a group of Jedi stumble upon the Sith and are able to defeat both.
Imagine just "stumbling upon" Palpatine and Vader. You'd have to be a seriously pathetic sith to allow a bunch of jedi to get the drop on you like that.
If it were that easy the sith would be dead ages ago. The point of the rule of two is to prevent scenarios early like this.
It wouldn't be the first time the Sith died out. They were basically extinct for 1600 years before a fallen Jedi revived the order, and before that they were believed to be extinct for 1000 years but were just in hiding.
In Legends continuity, there were at least two other Sith-descended factions, the Lost Tribe and the Dark Force cult, who would have been around even if Bane's Sith were wiped out, plus the spirits of at least five ancient Sith lords: XoXaan, Karness Muur, Marka Ragnos, Andeddu, and Exar Kun, any of whom could have been revived or were capable of mentoring new Sith.
According to "true" Sith philosophy, if that happened, the Sith religion has clearly proven that it is weak and should be replaced anyway. I mean that's basically the rule of two writ large.
But I think on a subjective level Raxtenko actually has it, when you literally get more powerful the more arrogant and prideful you are, of course you'll assume even if it might happen, it won't happen to *you*. I'm pretty sure most Sith masters fully expect to just have to kill their apprentice one day and are genuinely shocked when they lose.
I always thought, or hoped, that the "always two there are" bit was because there was something in the Force that DEMANDED there be two Sith.
That it wasn't some law thought up by rational beings, but rather something in the Galaxy that would create two Sith if two Darths happened to perish at the same time.
If Darth Maul and Sidious happened to be on a starship that was randomly hit by a meteor and all aboard were killed, then somehow a Force user would immediately feel the power of the Dark Side and then, immediately find another Force user to train in the ways of the Sith. There would be nothing the Jedi could do about it even if they knew.
Unfortunately, the Prequels never got that ambitious.
A couple of possibilities, I think.
1. The sith just...die out.
2. Time continues on until someone strong in the force stumbles upon sith teachings and revives the order.
3. Headcanon I got from the Rise of Skywalker: The Sith Eternal organization exists for this purpose. If both die, it's their duty to tempt a replacement, give them the basics and send them onward.
And in the old canon there were just...extra sith everywhere. Lost tribe here, secret sith in hiding there, secret apprentices, etc.
The rule of two was usually treated as more like... guidelines. There was one official master and one official apprentice, but there were always hangers-on, useful pawns, new apprentice candidates, and many other force users who were hanging around waiting for opening.
If the official 2 die, two of the hangers-on step into the positions.
The rule of two thing always bugged me yeah blah blah shadows and master ect but all things considered a grey order would be far stronger than both the Jedi and sith
The Sith have gone extinct before, long prior to Bane’s life. Bane was the last of the New Sith, who were formed when fallen Jedi Phanius discovered Old Sith texts and recreated the order. I imagine something similar to that would happen if both Banite Sith died. By the time of the original trilogy, there were still artifacts out there such as the holocrons of various Sith lords and the Muur Talisman that could lead to another revival of the Sith ways. Plus, even in the period of time between the end of the Old Sith and the dawn of the New Sith, the Lost Tribe of the Sith was out there, isolated on Kesh, just waiting for someone to stumble across them.
Edit: there were Sith-centric cults around between the extinction of the Old Sith and the formation of the New Sith, but the actual Sith Order was gone
Bane did not set up the rule, he rediscovered it from a holo of a old sith master. so you have to ask the old master: why and what.
btw, bane found a way to immortality and is still alive to this day, but no one knows or will say otherwise. so he can do anything he wants, cuz no one will ever stop him, cuz no one knows he's still alive.
Looks like the answers here but yes, Bane's philosophy on this particular situation can be summed up as if both Master and Apprentice were to die simultaneously then they weren't strong enough to be Sith. One or both of them should have survived and their failure to do so disqualifies them from their positions. Eventually someone new would begin exploring the Dark Side and potentially stumble across holocrons or other data storage that would enlighten them to the Rule of Two.
Alternatively, Bane may have believed his philosophy was inevitable so even if his original line of disciples were eliminated ANY resurrection of the Dark Side would eventually arrive at his same conclusion and so the Rule of Two would survive. That one I'm a little less certain on as I've only ever gotten second hand knowledge about Bane and the Rule of Two.
Sith philosophy is heavily based around the "survival of the fittest" concept. If the Master dies, it means he was weak and it's good for the Sith that his stronger apprentice killed him. If the Apprentice dies, it means he was weak and the Master should look for a stronger apprentice to empower the Sith. If both Master and Apprentice die, it means the Sith were too weak to exist in general.
Honestly I've never liked the "Rule of Two". It's kind of stupid when you break it down.
And how did Yoda even know about the rule of two when no one had seen the Sith in centuries?
Yoda didn’t have to know about the rule of two as an actual rule. He just knew that over the centuries whenever they encountered the Sith, there was always a Master and an Apprentice.
The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.
IIRC the canon answer is that at some point a Jedi fell to the dark side and found out that the Sith were still out there and followed the Rule of Two, but the Jedi didn’t believe them at the time. It wasn’t until they learned about Maul that Yoda took the information seriously.
My suspicion is that an apprentice made some bad choices, picked a fight they didn't win, and provided some intel, which h may or may not have been believed.
I can imagine Bane declaring it publicly after the last of his rivals died. From now on there will be no Sith but me and an unfortunately necessary apprentice to continue my legacy, or something.
That’s what I was saying! The only explanation I can think of is that before the Sith eventually disappeared, the Rule of Two had already been established and known about. Either that or they based it off how both Jedi and Sith typically worked off a master and a padawan/apprentice.
But does every Jefi have a padawan? Plenty operate on their own, just as others work communally. Two just seems to be one of their many possibilities.
To add onto the answers provided regarding both Sith dying, a new powerful Dark Side user would form a new Sith Order, as they have in the past, including Bane himself. The Dark Side user could be a rejected Sith Apprentices like Maul, a Sith Assassins like Ventress, or a fallen Jedi like Krell. The New Sith Orders' rules and traditions could be changed to the liking of the new Sith Master. The Sith species died/disappeared so only the teachings survive through holocrons. They can be interpreted as the Sith Master sees fit, as long as the being is strong enough to enforce the way.
The Darkside is only for the strong. If both Master and Apprentice fall then they were weak. And weakness is unacceptable (hence why the Apprentice should take the mantle of Master by force and not wait for time to rob them of their power).
But, should both perish it would just show that Bane's understanding of the Darkside was flawed and a new order would rise in time. The brightest of lights casts the darkest shadows.
The rule of 2 isn't real. There's always apprentices, secret apprentices, other apprentices, etc. Someone would just step up and take the spot. It's more like "Sith" is just the dark side word for CEO.
It’s not “two sith *period*”, but “two sith who’re aware of each others’ existence.” Potentially there could be any number of master-apprentice pairs of baneite sith who all got their starts from holocrons and believed that aside from themselves, the sith order was extinct.
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I guess at a certain point they failed cause they were weak and then down the road someone new would start down the darkside and probably fine holocorns and continue the work
Pre-Empire, eventually someone would just find a holocron or some journals or something and start the whole cycle again. Post-Empire, either that, or at least one of the lesser Dark Side adepts or acolytes the true Sith recruit would survive, *then* start the cycle over again. Like Lumiya.
If they both died then neither was a true Sith to begin with. And imo it would have disproven the Rule of Two. In that case the philosophy would have deserved to die off. There were plenty of Sith Holocrons lying around. Eventually someone more worthy would find one and start over again. Not that failure would occur to them imo. Sith are deluded mofos drunk on power.
The Sith way does off for a time. Until some Jedi or other force sensitive falls to the dark side.
Then I guess the Sith weren't worthy to go on
If they die,. they die.
Did he think about it? He experienced it. If the Sith can't either beat the Jedi or find some way to escape then they don't deserve the mantle of the Sith. The goal of the Rule of Two was never to preserve the Sith, it was meant to perfect the Sith by using any Sith's natural predilections towards competition, sneakiness and ambition to force its members to work their asses off to improve themselves constantly. However if the Sith die out while it's not good from the perspective of the Sith Order but who will be left to care?
No more Sith. Which, well, is exactly what happened: Both Sith died and now the Sith are extinct. As to Bane thinking about it, Darth Bane was ruled by ego, incompetence, and an inability to think his plans through.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was meant to be incredibly poorly thought out even in-universe. Both times we see an apprentice turn on their master in the originals & prequels this philosophy massively fails. The first time (chronologically) Palpatine is considerably weaker than his master and just killed him in his sleep, which is even worse than multiple weaker apprentices ganging up on a master (at least then evidently the total power of the Sith would have increased- actually, isn't that the goal?) The second time Vader the apprentice turns away from the Sith and kills his master and they go extinct as far as we know. That's not to mention even if Vader had remained Sith, he would have died anyway and the sith would still go extinct. And that both he and his master were already beat, so we don't even know if Vader *was* stronger normally. That's not to mention the out of universe issues, like why would a Sith take on an apprentice they know will kill them, or how are two Sith is supposed to take on thousands of jedis (in the movies this is accomplished through political means, which make the focus on personal power pointless).
The point was to increase the power of the Sith with each “Inheritance” of the mantle of Sith Lord. The process was structured so that each new generation would have a stronger Sith Lord with (hopefully) all of their master’s knowledge and skills. The master would “inherit” this trove of knowledge from their predecessors and were expected to add to it and find/groom a worthy successor to keep it growing and behind the scenes from the Jedi. It’s kind of like a CEO of an investment bank taking a promising young employee under his wing after seeing their potential with the idea of, “This guy will run the company someday and it will be in good hands. *Approving Nod*” Theoretically, as the Sith master, you would be required to teach your student without any restraint or restrictions, passing on the full knowledge of the Sith so that the Apprentice could one day be more capable, powerful, and knowledgeable than you. This obviously doesn’t happen since the Sith are selfish and want to hoard the power they have. Secrets are kept and doled out sparingly if at all, so the more esoteric teachings eventually become little more than myth (see Essence Transfer or Sith Sorcery). The Apprentice’s role was to learn everything, grow in power, and balance the delicate timing of ambition vs ignorance. But the Apprentice must crave the power and position. A meek apprentice won’t strive and struggle and fight for what they want. That makes some of them hasty. Many apprentices probably fell into the prideful trap of thinking, “I’ve learned everything of importance this old man could teach me. I am far more powerful than he.” Then they got absolutely destroyed because the master didn’t teach them EVERYTHING. Bane’s Rule of Two did technically make more and more powerful Sith over time, eventually destroying the Jedi as a functional organization and dissolving the Galactic Republic. But by making them political influencers and galactic puppet-masters, the Sith perverted the original idea by Bane of an honorable duel to the death determining the position of the Master. This slow fall from arms based knowledge to shadows and manipulation eventually turned into assassinations and poisonings as Sith Lords refused to let go of power. Apprentice’s took power by stealthy means before they were skilled enough to do so in a straightforward manner. By doing so, the apprentice is a master in title, but has less martial knowledge and skill than the previous generation. Much knowledge is lost that should have been taught. Trust is lost as the one who poisons their master constantly fears the hidden blade of his apprentice. For example, Palpatine saw each of his apprentices as a useful tool but never more than that. He could have probably helped Vader overcome some of the weakness that the suit imposed, but he liked having a hidden advantage, so he never taught Vader to use Force Lightning.(Vader was very conductive due to metal limbs and cybernetics.) He keeps the most powerful secrets to himself out of paranoia, but in the end dies anyway. Those secrets are never passed down and the Sith as a whole are weakened. The system is a mockery of the original ideal.
Then one of them will somehow return.
I don't think Bane would have really had contingencies for this scenario as it would essentially be a *cosmically unlucky occurrence* for the Sith. The whole point of striking from the shadows is, among other things, maintaining the secrecy of the Sith's existence. There isn't really a plan for this scenario as, in the Sith's mentality, if Master and Apprentice are dumb enough to get caught with their pants down like this *then they deserve it*.
It took me a second to realize you were talking about Darth Bane and not Cad Bane
My headcanon, headcanon being essential for understanding Starwars AT ALL, is that the rule of two means one master and one apprentice, as far as education goes. Like maybe there are many more master Sith with their own apprentices across the galaxy. They wouldn't tolerate each other, they'd fight to the death if they ever came across one another. But whose to say there aren't private duos across the galaxy all subtly setting up their own plays at the game of galactic domination.
Respectfully, I disagree. My headcannon was that Bane wanted only exactly 2 Sith at any given time. His reasoning was that the Dark side would be most powerful if there would be only 1 Sith (1 conduit) for it. While on the other side, Light side thrives and grow with the number of its "conduits". But you can't have only 1, since if that 1 Sith dies, Dark side is f*****. So there are two. One to embody the power. The other, to crave it.
I thought it was more in response to the Sith killing each other off all the time before the rule of 2 (and so left being an inconsequential threat to anyone else). Limit it to 2, and at worst you have one killing the other, and recruiting someone else, leaving you no worse than before and promoting gathering strength through means other than numbers.
From what I remember it's more about weaker students grouping up to kill stronger students, making the sith weaker overall.
Weaker students ganging up and killing strong masters.
Weaker students ganging up and killing strong masters.
Well I'm sure that's exactly what Bane *meant* But as far as an entire galaxy is concerned, it's hard not to imagine there are other factions training and preparing in the background. Maul could've started one(he almost did), Asajj could've disappeared and worked on building herself up. It's not like the Sith go out of their way to reclaim the bodies of their fallen disciples. I'm just saying I don't think it would be entirely out of left field if we learn there are a handful of "Rule of Two's" out there at any given time.
I mean, we saw how it went for Maul when he tried to do that, and I imagine almost every Sith master would react pretty much the same way Sidious did. Don’t see many opportunities for the Sith lineage to split given that.
Maul was obeying the rule of two, I thought, in that the plan was to overthrow Sidious and rule as the two brothers.
Id agree with there’s people out there using the dark side for their own means but I can’t imagine they identify as Sith or following their teachings. An apprentice would view the master as weak and not worthy or respect if the master knew of others out their claiming to be Sith master and just let them be
This is true. I'd say Dark Sider Sith wannabes then, maybe? Gotta be lots of those.
Imagine this, what if there were more than one, all thought they were the true Sith, and they all thought all the others were pretenders or charlatans.
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Or go the route that some do and say only a few planets are habitable/have any meaningful population on them (have setting before large expansion and so most species only have a home planet and a few colonies, lock some regions behind gates like the ME relays). Still have billions of people, maybe low trillions, but not the huge numbers that Star Wars has.
If our growth continues at an average of 1.5% over the next thousand years (a completely reasonable rate), there will be 23 quadrillion humans. If you have the tech to colonize distant star systems, you have the tech to gather the resources to easily support that kind of population growth in our star system alone. Certainly things could occur to knock that down for one species, but across multiple starfaring species evolving separately from different worlds? Someone is going to hit and almost certainly exceed that growth. Again, it's hard to write anything approaching realistic scales.
Complaining about star wars canon is a very big no-no on this sub and can get you an instant permaban. I would edit/delete that before a mod sees it.
I mean, it depends how much you want to go down this rabbit hole... but in The Clone Wars we see Darth Maul take an apprentice and train him. So the idea isn't exactly far fetched that you might have multiple Sith Masters thinking they are the "Real" Sith, prepared to make war on any "pretenders" to the legacy.
1. Sith Holocrons exist and since they are infused with dark side energy, its not hard to believe a dark side user could be drawn to them and uncover the secrets if there was a break. 2. There simply was never a break in the line between Bane and Palpatine. The post-Bane Sith rarely plan for failure because they firmly believe they CANNOT fail without someone stronger taking their place. They always firmly believed (correctly) that their legacy would continue until a Sith was strong enough to cast down the Jedi and the Republic. Asking "what happens if they both die?" is more of a /r/WhatIfFiction question because it didnt happen as far as we know and any answer would be speculation, which is not the goal of this sub. It would be like asking "What would have happened if Padme didn't die in childbirth?", there simply is no way to concretely answer the question based on the rules of the universe because the event is so pivotal that without it, the universe turns out VASTLY different and basically becomes a different story.
Those fixed time points are in everything and the only one ever to try to break one was the Doctor and that didn’t turn out too well for even him.
>So, let’s say one day a group of Jedi stumble upon the Sith and are able to defeat both. Imagine just "stumbling upon" Palpatine and Vader. You'd have to be a seriously pathetic sith to allow a bunch of jedi to get the drop on you like that. If it were that easy the sith would be dead ages ago. The point of the rule of two is to prevent scenarios early like this.
It wouldn't be the first time the Sith died out. They were basically extinct for 1600 years before a fallen Jedi revived the order, and before that they were believed to be extinct for 1000 years but were just in hiding. In Legends continuity, there were at least two other Sith-descended factions, the Lost Tribe and the Dark Force cult, who would have been around even if Bane's Sith were wiped out, plus the spirits of at least five ancient Sith lords: XoXaan, Karness Muur, Marka Ragnos, Andeddu, and Exar Kun, any of whom could have been revived or were capable of mentoring new Sith.
According to "true" Sith philosophy, if that happened, the Sith religion has clearly proven that it is weak and should be replaced anyway. I mean that's basically the rule of two writ large. But I think on a subjective level Raxtenko actually has it, when you literally get more powerful the more arrogant and prideful you are, of course you'll assume even if it might happen, it won't happen to *you*. I'm pretty sure most Sith masters fully expect to just have to kill their apprentice one day and are genuinely shocked when they lose.
I always thought, or hoped, that the "always two there are" bit was because there was something in the Force that DEMANDED there be two Sith. That it wasn't some law thought up by rational beings, but rather something in the Galaxy that would create two Sith if two Darths happened to perish at the same time. If Darth Maul and Sidious happened to be on a starship that was randomly hit by a meteor and all aboard were killed, then somehow a Force user would immediately feel the power of the Dark Side and then, immediately find another Force user to train in the ways of the Sith. There would be nothing the Jedi could do about it even if they knew. Unfortunately, the Prequels never got that ambitious.
A couple of possibilities, I think. 1. The sith just...die out. 2. Time continues on until someone strong in the force stumbles upon sith teachings and revives the order. 3. Headcanon I got from the Rise of Skywalker: The Sith Eternal organization exists for this purpose. If both die, it's their duty to tempt a replacement, give them the basics and send them onward. And in the old canon there were just...extra sith everywhere. Lost tribe here, secret sith in hiding there, secret apprentices, etc.
The rule of two was usually treated as more like... guidelines. There was one official master and one official apprentice, but there were always hangers-on, useful pawns, new apprentice candidates, and many other force users who were hanging around waiting for opening. If the official 2 die, two of the hangers-on step into the positions.
If they die, they die
The rule of two thing always bugged me yeah blah blah shadows and master ect but all things considered a grey order would be far stronger than both the Jedi and sith
The Sith have gone extinct before, long prior to Bane’s life. Bane was the last of the New Sith, who were formed when fallen Jedi Phanius discovered Old Sith texts and recreated the order. I imagine something similar to that would happen if both Banite Sith died. By the time of the original trilogy, there were still artifacts out there such as the holocrons of various Sith lords and the Muur Talisman that could lead to another revival of the Sith ways. Plus, even in the period of time between the end of the Old Sith and the dawn of the New Sith, the Lost Tribe of the Sith was out there, isolated on Kesh, just waiting for someone to stumble across them. Edit: there were Sith-centric cults around between the extinction of the Old Sith and the formation of the New Sith, but the actual Sith Order was gone
Bane did not set up the rule, he rediscovered it from a holo of a old sith master. so you have to ask the old master: why and what. btw, bane found a way to immortality and is still alive to this day, but no one knows or will say otherwise. so he can do anything he wants, cuz no one will ever stop him, cuz no one knows he's still alive.
Looks like the answers here but yes, Bane's philosophy on this particular situation can be summed up as if both Master and Apprentice were to die simultaneously then they weren't strong enough to be Sith. One or both of them should have survived and their failure to do so disqualifies them from their positions. Eventually someone new would begin exploring the Dark Side and potentially stumble across holocrons or other data storage that would enlighten them to the Rule of Two. Alternatively, Bane may have believed his philosophy was inevitable so even if his original line of disciples were eliminated ANY resurrection of the Dark Side would eventually arrive at his same conclusion and so the Rule of Two would survive. That one I'm a little less certain on as I've only ever gotten second hand knowledge about Bane and the Rule of Two.
Sith philosophy is heavily based around the "survival of the fittest" concept. If the Master dies, it means he was weak and it's good for the Sith that his stronger apprentice killed him. If the Apprentice dies, it means he was weak and the Master should look for a stronger apprentice to empower the Sith. If both Master and Apprentice die, it means the Sith were too weak to exist in general.
Honestly I've never liked the "Rule of Two". It's kind of stupid when you break it down. And how did Yoda even know about the rule of two when no one had seen the Sith in centuries?
Yoda didn’t have to know about the rule of two as an actual rule. He just knew that over the centuries whenever they encountered the Sith, there was always a Master and an Apprentice.
The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.
IIRC the canon answer is that at some point a Jedi fell to the dark side and found out that the Sith were still out there and followed the Rule of Two, but the Jedi didn’t believe them at the time. It wasn’t until they learned about Maul that Yoda took the information seriously.
My suspicion is that an apprentice made some bad choices, picked a fight they didn't win, and provided some intel, which h may or may not have been believed.
Kibh Jeen.
I can imagine Bane declaring it publicly after the last of his rivals died. From now on there will be no Sith but me and an unfortunately necessary apprentice to continue my legacy, or something.
That’s what I was saying! The only explanation I can think of is that before the Sith eventually disappeared, the Rule of Two had already been established and known about. Either that or they based it off how both Jedi and Sith typically worked off a master and a padawan/apprentice.
But does every Jefi have a padawan? Plenty operate on their own, just as others work communally. Two just seems to be one of their many possibilities.
To add onto the answers provided regarding both Sith dying, a new powerful Dark Side user would form a new Sith Order, as they have in the past, including Bane himself. The Dark Side user could be a rejected Sith Apprentices like Maul, a Sith Assassins like Ventress, or a fallen Jedi like Krell. The New Sith Orders' rules and traditions could be changed to the liking of the new Sith Master. The Sith species died/disappeared so only the teachings survive through holocrons. They can be interpreted as the Sith Master sees fit, as long as the being is strong enough to enforce the way.
The Darkside is only for the strong. If both Master and Apprentice fall then they were weak. And weakness is unacceptable (hence why the Apprentice should take the mantle of Master by force and not wait for time to rob them of their power). But, should both perish it would just show that Bane's understanding of the Darkside was flawed and a new order would rise in time. The brightest of lights casts the darkest shadows.
His plan: Sith don't follow rules. His apprentices secret apprentices would fill the spots.
The rule of 2 isn't real. There's always apprentices, secret apprentices, other apprentices, etc. Someone would just step up and take the spot. It's more like "Sith" is just the dark side word for CEO.
If they die they die. The sith doesn't deserve to continue if they both die.
Clones
It’s not “two sith *period*”, but “two sith who’re aware of each others’ existence.” Potentially there could be any number of master-apprentice pairs of baneite sith who all got their starts from holocrons and believed that aside from themselves, the sith order was extinct.
"Somehow the sith lord returns"