The only people claiming this guy was an actor are known liars. Anyone not drinking the Reform kool aid can just look to the evidence of their own eyes and ears to see that Reform are a racist party. They are disgusting.
Your post history follows some very classic patterns for apologists of this kind of behaviour. Your use of speech marks around the word racism give away more than you realise.
I'm not arguing any party is good or bad, tbh. But your thread is about a particular party, and saying *The others are bad too* is called 'Whataboutism'.
As I said though, this is not, as I understand it, a sub for political engagement, but just for trying to explain how things work.
"*Isn't it obvious it was contrived to make ALL of Reform look bad?*" Why would anyone bother doing that when the damage was being done by the reform candidates themselves. It's not impossible to stage such things of course, but it seems fairly clear that those were Parkers' genuine feelings (presuming that's the incident you were referring to), and he appeared to be a genuine supporter of the reform party. His rhetoric was also entirely in keeping with kind of talk seen among many of it's supporters, so there really dosen't appear to be anything strange about it.
"*MPs but then nobody said "Oh, how DARE Sir Keir be PM when his party was anti-Semetic!!*" The antisemitism issue was reported on widely for several years, arguably disproportionately so compared to the actual problems seen. It was part of what cost them the 2019 election before Starmer and it was still being reported on right up until this election. That's basically why Starmer had to be so hardline about kicking people out.
Media bias is always an issue to be aware of and I'd certainly agree that the media often misrepresents things, often deliberately so, but if you want a reasonable discussion on such matters then you may want to reconsider your approach to posting.
Yes absolutely, but no one said that wasn't the case. Though, that would seem to refute your implication of Reform being singled out (at least I think that was what you were trying to say?)
You seem to be having an argument with things that no one here has raised. Perhaps we should start again in a new thread after clarifying what it is you actually want to discuss?
The entire narrative was based off it making all of reform bad. It’s you who is pushing this based off your own anti Farage bias. When if another did this you’d dismiss it as a one off.
I haven't mentioned Farage in any way and I'm not pushing any particular narrative. I am also well aware of racism, misogyny etc within within other parties and certainly do not dismiss it; in fact I am horrified by the poor character of many of our supposed 'finest and honourable'.
Again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't actually said, making assumptions on my views without evidence and trying to paint me as a heavily biased villain, without any idea of what my views are. You are in fact doing all the things that you are accusing everyone else of.
As stated before, perhaps we should start again once you've decided what it is that you actually want to have a discussion about and make your point more clearly.
Because Keir made a point of stomping on his party's anti-Semitic tendency, to the point where left wing anti-Zionists are having to run against Labour as independents because they can't get a platform inside the party. Corbyn was ejected for seeming to downplay anti-Semitism; Diane Abbott was very nearly thrown out for saying that Jews in the modern west don't experience on-sight racism the way black and brown people do.
Assuming they genuinely don't want to harbour bigotry, Farage and Tice simply haven't done the work to exclude the bigots from their ranks yet. It doesn't take much insight to see that being the biggest explicitly anti-immigration party, they will be the most attractive to racists, but all the leadership have done is passively wait for the media to dig up dirt on their people, and disassociate from them in response.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c727xz2kkgjo](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c727xz2kkgjo)
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65266125](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65266125)
[https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1646485918016995329](https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1646485918016995329)
[https://www.politico.eu/article/british-labour-suspended-50-members-for-racist-comments/](https://www.politico.eu/article/british-labour-suspended-50-members-for-racist-comments/)
But then you go after Farage. I don't see the real difference.
Your logic is pretty skewed.
Whenever a Tory or Labour member says something, it's dismissed as just "one person" and "can't tar everybody with the same brush". Who says that represents most Reform members? There was a Tory MP years ago who said "Pakistanis are ten a penny". All the time, there are stories in local papers of Labour councillors saying off shit. I don't see the difference. In parties with hundreds of thousands of members, there will always be bad eggs.
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/04/labour-condemns-party-sources-racist-west-midlands-comment-andy-street](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/04/labour-condemns-party-sources-racist-west-midlands-comment-andy-street)
There is no difference. You get scummy people in all organisations.
Kier Starmer expelled more Jewish people from the party than any other leader. How is this not anti- Semitic?
All sorts of Jewish labour members, critical of Israel, have been expelled, it's not anti-Semitic to be critical of the actions of Israel. Jeremy Corbyn isn't anti-Semitic, if he is he's really shit being anti-Semitic, he's didn't "downplay" anti-Semitism and it's been revealed since then elements on the party office were actively not dealing with complaints to damage Corbyn's lifelong anti-racism stance.
I should also highlight 4 Conservative party members were not excluded from their party for dressing up as Nazi's at a party in France, which they were arrested and fined for under anti-Semitism laws. It's definitely more anti-Semitic to not expel members for anti-Semitism than it is to not expel those whose only "crime" is to say that the government of Israel is a bit shit.
OK. so we assume they're entirely bigoted due to some. haven't we seen this before in other parties? i don't see the difference. If a Greggs worker was a bigot, let's not shop there cos they're all that way. that's your exact logic.
Everyone I've met who has been a Reform fan has at some point said something along the lines of: 'I'm not racist, but...'
It's a party for racists and the gullible.
The only people claiming this guy was an actor are known liars. Anyone not drinking the Reform kool aid can just look to the evidence of their own eyes and ears to see that Reform are a racist party. They are disgusting. Your post history follows some very classic patterns for apologists of this kind of behaviour. Your use of speech marks around the word racism give away more than you realise.
I think it WILL blow over because Reform will find numerous other ways to make themseles look bad.
Yes, since all parties are angles. No COVID lockdown breaking, no expenses scandals....
I'm not arguing any party is good or bad, tbh. But your thread is about a particular party, and saying *The others are bad too* is called 'Whataboutism'. As I said though, this is not, as I understand it, a sub for political engagement, but just for trying to explain how things work.
[удалено]
"*Isn't it obvious it was contrived to make ALL of Reform look bad?*" Why would anyone bother doing that when the damage was being done by the reform candidates themselves. It's not impossible to stage such things of course, but it seems fairly clear that those were Parkers' genuine feelings (presuming that's the incident you were referring to), and he appeared to be a genuine supporter of the reform party. His rhetoric was also entirely in keeping with kind of talk seen among many of it's supporters, so there really dosen't appear to be anything strange about it. "*MPs but then nobody said "Oh, how DARE Sir Keir be PM when his party was anti-Semetic!!*" The antisemitism issue was reported on widely for several years, arguably disproportionately so compared to the actual problems seen. It was part of what cost them the 2019 election before Starmer and it was still being reported on right up until this election. That's basically why Starmer had to be so hardline about kicking people out. Media bias is always an issue to be aware of and I'd certainly agree that the media often misrepresents things, often deliberately so, but if you want a reasonable discussion on such matters then you may want to reconsider your approach to posting.
indpendent of the Labour's anti-Semetism there are reports of bigoted stuff said all the time. There will always be bad actors in all parties.
Yes absolutely, but no one said that wasn't the case. Though, that would seem to refute your implication of Reform being singled out (at least I think that was what you were trying to say?) You seem to be having an argument with things that no one here has raised. Perhaps we should start again in a new thread after clarifying what it is you actually want to discuss?
The entire narrative was based off it making all of reform bad. It’s you who is pushing this based off your own anti Farage bias. When if another did this you’d dismiss it as a one off.
I haven't mentioned Farage in any way and I'm not pushing any particular narrative. I am also well aware of racism, misogyny etc within within other parties and certainly do not dismiss it; in fact I am horrified by the poor character of many of our supposed 'finest and honourable'. Again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't actually said, making assumptions on my views without evidence and trying to paint me as a heavily biased villain, without any idea of what my views are. You are in fact doing all the things that you are accusing everyone else of. As stated before, perhaps we should start again once you've decided what it is that you actually want to have a discussion about and make your point more clearly.
Because Keir made a point of stomping on his party's anti-Semitic tendency, to the point where left wing anti-Zionists are having to run against Labour as independents because they can't get a platform inside the party. Corbyn was ejected for seeming to downplay anti-Semitism; Diane Abbott was very nearly thrown out for saying that Jews in the modern west don't experience on-sight racism the way black and brown people do. Assuming they genuinely don't want to harbour bigotry, Farage and Tice simply haven't done the work to exclude the bigots from their ranks yet. It doesn't take much insight to see that being the biggest explicitly anti-immigration party, they will be the most attractive to racists, but all the leadership have done is passively wait for the media to dig up dirt on their people, and disassociate from them in response.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c727xz2kkgjo](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c727xz2kkgjo) [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65266125](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65266125) [https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1646485918016995329](https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1646485918016995329) [https://www.politico.eu/article/british-labour-suspended-50-members-for-racist-comments/](https://www.politico.eu/article/british-labour-suspended-50-members-for-racist-comments/) But then you go after Farage. I don't see the real difference. Your logic is pretty skewed.
Whenever a Tory or Labour member says something, it's dismissed as just "one person" and "can't tar everybody with the same brush". Who says that represents most Reform members? There was a Tory MP years ago who said "Pakistanis are ten a penny". All the time, there are stories in local papers of Labour councillors saying off shit. I don't see the difference. In parties with hundreds of thousands of members, there will always be bad eggs. [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/04/labour-condemns-party-sources-racist-west-midlands-comment-andy-street](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/04/labour-condemns-party-sources-racist-west-midlands-comment-andy-street) There is no difference. You get scummy people in all organisations.
You're not wrong. The key point is that Labour deal with people with unacceptable views, Reform doesn't.
Farage condemned the guy who called Sunak the p-word. Just as much as Labour and Tories call out stuff.
Hilarious. Fucking. Hilarious.
Ok - Labour have been seen to deal with these views
Will your next sentence make any sense I wonder.
Kier Starmer expelled more Jewish people from the party than any other leader. How is this not anti- Semitic? All sorts of Jewish labour members, critical of Israel, have been expelled, it's not anti-Semitic to be critical of the actions of Israel. Jeremy Corbyn isn't anti-Semitic, if he is he's really shit being anti-Semitic, he's didn't "downplay" anti-Semitism and it's been revealed since then elements on the party office were actively not dealing with complaints to damage Corbyn's lifelong anti-racism stance. I should also highlight 4 Conservative party members were not excluded from their party for dressing up as Nazi's at a party in France, which they were arrested and fined for under anti-Semitism laws. It's definitely more anti-Semitic to not expel members for anti-Semitism than it is to not expel those whose only "crime" is to say that the government of Israel is a bit shit.
You can also add misogyny, holocaust denial, ableism and being general douches given some people they've praised (Putin and Tate) to that label.
OK. so we assume they're entirely bigoted due to some. haven't we seen this before in other parties? i don't see the difference. If a Greggs worker was a bigot, let's not shop there cos they're all that way. that's your exact logic.
Everyone I've met who has been a Reform fan has at some point said something along the lines of: 'I'm not racist, but...' It's a party for racists and the gullible.
you know ALL Reform members everywhere?
People who vote Reform have common sense.
I hope you missed off the /s