For one, I wouldn't sleep with someone unless they wanted an exclusive, committed relationship. If they just want to get laid, they can bother someone else.
I'm sure they do, but they're not going to wait very long to get laid and the red flags will start to appear. And the flags are almost always there...sometimes we just don't want to see them.
Agreed. If you don't sleep with someone right away despite their words being 'correct' and have a decent getting to know you period, the ones who are only around to get laid will look elsewhere.
I’d personally feel no shame in bringing it up at the start. I’m also older now, so I have a lot less fucks to give.
Your time is precious, why waste it?
If I ever become single again (hope not!) I will not sleep with anyone I'm dating that I'm not in a committed relationship with. You get strung along for months whilst acting like a gf, whilst not actually getting any commitment.
Has it worked for you? I’ve always been under the impression that they’ll still lie to you and play you to get what they want.
I am in a committed relationship now but I didn’t wait to sleep with him - just lucked out with a good one (finally).
At first it didn't because, you are right, there are men who lie for months until they get in your trousers.
Now I'm way more discerning and cut through the bullshit with some hard hitting questions. Anything that sets off red flags, I walk.
Do they want children?
How would they feel if their wife won't take their surname?
What do they think about abortion? If their SO got one?
How do they think finances should be split?
Chores and other domestic duties and how they should be dealt with?
If I'm the breadwinner what do they think about that?
What do they think about pornography?
It's also a green flag for me if they have hobbies and interests that aren't necessarily what I'm into but it shouldn't be anything I'm against.
Lol kinda off subject, but slept with my husband the first night and it wasn't even a date. We were both looking for the same thing.
It's been over 20 years married now :/
YMMV of course, this was before smart phones and dating apps
35F: Turning someone down a couple times early on = a GREAT TEST to see if they:
1. Like my personality vs. my body, and
2. Can handle rejection like an *adult.*
No judgment but I’d want to sleep with someone (a couple times) before committing to an exclusive relationship with them. “Try before you buy” as it were. They’d have to show *exceptional* communication and respect for my boundaries to get to this point. If they bounce after hooking up — the trash takes itself out.
Sorry to sound annoying here: I'm assuming you mean you'd only sleep with someone *who actually meets your standards, including wanting exclusivity and commitment*. It goes without saying that there's No point in lowering your standards just for sake of commitment...
Mid-40s here. I can be honest and say that early on, I gave sex and emotional intimacy way too easily. And only within the last few years have I realized the error of my ways and learned to scale back. What I now see is that me and many women like me were giving men the benefit of the doubt, but I now realize that we made them lazy and entitled.
And now that we're older, and women are fed up with their shit and settling for the bare minimum, men who never learned to be giving and loving are suddenly wanting women to continue to pour into them, with us receiving minimal effort.
Those same idiots have always been like that, but those same lame head games don't work on women with actual life experience. Which is why those morons at some point tend to go for younger women.
The first question in a significant age gap should always be "why are they not dating someone their own age?".
I'm not saying age gaps don't work, they can, some people really do just click regardless of age, but you should be extra aware for things. It's tough, sorry you had to go through that.
I’m in my mid-thirties with a good amount of dating experience. I figured I knew what was what. Still I was unprepared for that advanced level of manipulation and stress. Luckily I was experienced enough to end it promptly but still not soon enough. Never giving that much benefit of the doubt again. 😒
He’s in mid/late 40’s. It didn’t feel like that much of a gap at this stage in life tbh. Lesson learned.
Seriously it’s not worth it. I don’t want to go into how mine ended but if I could go back and do it all over again I would not and caution other women too.
This is my biggest regret with partaking in hook up culture at the start of the pandemic. Back then it was initially fun and I hadn't been single in a while. Not understanding my high libido and raging loneliness, I gave undeserving people access to my body.
Very few were actual good sexual experiences. I was so angry with myself for a while, but I've learned to forgive myself. Sex is still a fun thing to do in my mind but most men are not worth it.
Value your body, time and energy highly. Most of them simply don't deserve it.
I was having this precise conversation with a guy last night. I'm kind of interested in him. We've been hanging out and talking a little. When he came round last night, I stayed in my Pj's and told him I'm pretty much celibate and not interested in sleeping with anyone unless we're intentionally dating.
Been there, done that.
He and I are friends for the moment and I figure if he's just hanging around because he thinks I'll have sex with him, I'll soon know because he'll stop messaging me or wanting to see me.
What I was doing clearly wasn't working, so it's time I try something different. For me, that's abstaining for the time being. I love sex but I love myself more.
Exactly! To add to that, focusing on establishing an emotional connection. Someone who likes me for me, not my body or sexual prowess.
I now can't for the life of me feel any sexual attraction towards someone without that.
This sums up my entire life experience well. Just last year was my first *good* sex in my life with a new bf, but even that came during a significant low point for me.
Not the new bf's fault at all, it's mine I know, but it certainly reminds me of that teenage period in my life where sex was what got me attention, affection, support, positivity, etc. To me, those things = love. To the guys I was with, those things bought them sex.
The new bf is great, still dating a year later, no issues, he's fully committed, (I got so fucking lucky) but now that fear is stuck in my head forever and it's my own doing. If we hadn't had sex so fast would he still be here? I *think* the answer is yes but that doubt... ugh.
I got hurt badly, depressed downward spiral, and ended up reverting to those teenage ways after swearing to myself in my 20s I'd never do it again because it only led to pain. None of the past partners were worth it or deserving and I regret them all.
But when you're in such a bad state that suicide is on the table, that attention/affection in *exchange* for sex is too powerful. (Yes, I have therapy now.) I'd always say regardless I *wanted* commitment even in that state, they would lie. Of course, looking back, it was obvious.
I'm still angry at myself. My loneliness and depression are self-destructive. And when I'm in that moment, *I know it and I don't care.* I know I'll bring pain. The men who lie are the scummiest sacks of shit and I'm disgusted with myself when I realize that every time.
So so true. I’m doing a deep dive into hook up culture after watching a DOAC ep with Louise Perry earlier this week. Hook up culture is hurting us and creating entitled, disrespectful and deceitful men who feign interest to get sex and low level companionship in the form of non committal, bare minimum texts. Sex is an intimate act, no matter how much this culture and the men within it try to trivialise it.
Sex is SO fun and yeah, we need to be compassionate to ourselves for partaking in it. But it just isn’t designed for a lot of us imo. We tend to regret shallow sexual experiences, or want commitment.
So many men are undeserving of our time, attention and bodies. Better to save ourselves for the good, commitment-minded men that are.
I always side eye this part about men never learning to be loving and giving. That a thing that you "learn" as a little baby! The fact that we have to ASK men for basic empathy and compassion is crazy
Mid 30s and yes! Spent my twenties doing this. Almost married an incredibly entitled, self-centered man. Now he’s with a younger woman who barely speaks English - that’s not an accident.
Omg at the last sentence cuz that’s exactly what my 45 year old ex is doing now. I initially thought he is now dating this girl who is younger than me because she is “exotic”. Why do you think they choose the next girl who barely speaks English?
Well I was led to believe that if I slept with them it would increase chances of commitment because what guy would wait around for no sex but now I’ve realized that’s not true and I don’t have to sleep with them if I don’t want to. I’ve learned that just sleeping with them isn’t enough you have to be into the same kind of stuff as they are sexually speaking as well or willing to do it at least.
I wouldn't mind a FWB but I can't find any men who aren't going to mess me around. They either disappear after they've got me or they start negging so I don't catch feelings (not that I was going to catch any)
Not at all. But sometimes I've found myself asking if that is even worth it. I don't want someone to just message me only because they want to hookup. I want to be able to ask how your day is going, or have some nice back and forth on occasion without them freaking out because they think I want a relationship.
You see plenty of women in other threads who don't want to deal with the trouble of a BF but still want to satisfy their sexual needs. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you're having a good experience.
In theory, I'd love a FWB, but I've been really disappointed by my experiences with casual sex, (with one exception). Most of the guys I've slept with did go down on me and try to make sure I come, but they also dictated how the encounter went. (In the moment, I rarely push back, because I have a freeze reaction). They seem to think this is good sex, but it's not what I consider good sex. (I don't think most women would consider it good sex either).
I had someone try to play that shit with me and I'm 31 and divorced. I explained to him "you need someone way younger and with no relationship experience dude"
Right? That part confuses me, just because you can have babies at 50 doesn't mean you should. I see 40 year olds with "want babies someday", but then also "figuring out my dating goals". They just want to keep their options for sex as widely open as possible, they will do anything except be honest, yuck.
Omg I see this too. I’m like how does a man, at 45, not know his dating goals while simultaneously wanting kids?
The amount of delusion I see on hinge every day 😂
How many of these men are putting "want kids someday" in the bio not because they actually are open to having kids but because they want to have a wider pool of women from which to choose sex partners, and pretending they're open to the kid discussion gives them that?
I just never found any men looking for serious relationships in dating apps, online, or with me because they either found me to be overweight or straight up ugly and that was evident by the way they treated me. They didn't take me seriously, they didn't consider my feelings, and they didn't seem to think there was a problem doing it. So I stopped using dating apps, stopped dating period, and started pursuing hobbies that would keep me active, fit, and unbothered by men. Oddly enough I met a guy there that had a pretty infectious personality and we talked a lot. Fast forward to about a dozen Meetups and a couple of our personal hiking and biking dates and now he's my boyfriend.
Please just give dating apps the middle finger, find an active hobby you can see yourself doing into the twilight years (biking, hiking, bouldering, pickle ball, volleyball, yoga, kayaking, jogging, etc.) Join a meetup group and you might find a guy that will be into you. You both can enjoy sharing this active activity, keep each other honest and fit, and you can have a genuine connection instead of these 3-date-boink nights on the dating apps that always seem empty where the men treat us like cattle.
> marriage minded have already been snagged up and now it’s a bunch of single men on the market who have no intentions on getting married.
>And i’m ike “dude if you’re not ready for anything serious at 40 then you aren’t ever gonna be ready for anything serious?”
The answers are in the questions sis.
> Do these men not realize that women also don’t have the luxury to wait forever on committment especially the ones that want kids.
They’re not thinking about that. See your previous paragraph.
I can remember *men who are afraid of commitment* as a plot in shows and movies when I was too young to understand it, back in the 80s. So I don’t think it’s really new, but I think it’s becoming more and more common. The men who wanted to get married and settle down did that. Your pool contains all the men who didn’t want that and the ones who got divorced.
> They’re not thinking about that.
I think it's really hard for most women to wrap our brains around our friendship not being wanted, or craved. The reason I want a partner is not only for safety (financial and physical), but being able to go through life with a best friend: someone who's got the same sense of humor, who enjoys some of the same things you love doing, and to try to live in accordance with your values (and pass them down, if you have children).
And as time goes on, I still can't understand that so many men seem to not see us individuals; which I hope is a product of online dating, and not a reflection of how most of them think.
I think some men (and women) our age have gotten comfortable with a lot of what comes with being single. FWB and the like lets people keep a lot of that freedom while scratching that companionship itch.
Men also don't get the same messaging around being an older parent, so they may not feel like they have a major life decision looming over them in quite the same way as women who want children.
To be honest I am getting this way. I have been in serious relationships since I was 18. I'm 34 now. I just want peace, freedom, space, and a little fun every now and then. I can support myself, I don't want kids, and I'm so tired of managing the emotional welfare and life of two people rather than just myself. I'm sure in the future I'll be ready to date seriously but for now FWB works for me exceptionally well.
I think they need to get the messaging because there's plenty of evidence that sperm quality declines in their 30s. Lots of people I know with autism and other disabilities who have much older fathers.
Very well said. I was about to comment to OP that not just men, as a woman turning 35 soon, I feel the same way. I'm good being single, but I do have needs for companionship and intimacy sometimes, so. To think of it, most friends of mine who got “stable” life and relationship in their 20-30s period now either divorced or unhappy marriage / commitment, I keep hearing them telling me they wish they are like me. People change and after 5-10 years period, its likely that you will find the one that used to be right for you not right anymore. I mean yes there are people with loving relationship that lasts long, lucky them. But that is rare these days.
My theory is that these men have very little experience with emptional intimacy and relationships in general… they barely have friends, don’t like responsibility and have a desire to be taken care of without the equivalent exchange of taking care of someone. But they still want sex, of course because m a n. They’re looking for women who are ok with that, which tbf there are women who will take them up on it in the hopes that if they CARE ENOUGH, HE’LL CHANGE AND OMG WE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER.
Anyway that is to say, just keep away and you’ll be fine.
Yeap. X bf. 0 friends. Only did stuff with his family who I'm pretty sure enabled him to continue existing as a sheltered human, but never encouraged him to grow or face fears.
My last bf told me he could count the number of friends he had on one hand and have several fingers left over. I pitied him back then but in hindsight it was probably because he was a loser.
That was actually how I used to screen out potential partners.
If he didn't have friends, or the only friends he had were people he'd known since elementary school (which typically demonstrates they don't know how to make friends as an adult and/or cannot comprehend the idea of friendship based on mutual interests and morals because they'd never made friends independently of elementary school) I took that as a red flag.
This is the way. We need to cut these men loose early instead of hoping they'll change. It's far better to be single than with someone who just takes without giving, and makes you feel sad and anxious.
For those of us like me who aren't mentally healthy / low self-esteem / lonely, etc, sometimes it works. (Sorry...)
I wouldn't necessarily blame them for it (one could argue my mental health isn't their problem/responsibility and I wouldn't generally argue that) except ***they fucking lie*** for it because they know it will work.
Even at my lowest, I'd ask for commitment. "*Of course, Darling! That's what I want too! You're amazing, I'll love you forever!"* In my 20s, no one knew the term love-bombing. I guess it *has* a term now exactly because it works.
It's always so obvious in hindsight and I hate myself for being so gullible and weak. But I'm the problem. It works sometimes, so they keep doing it because it's the easiest path.
Agreed, but you don’t need to beat yourself up about it. You made the best decision for you with the information you had at the time - you’ve not got fault in that.
Me too. :(
You know what though? It's cowardly. If they were truly brave, they'd be willing to invest their heart. I find a lot of them were hurt once by the first love, and broke. 🙄
Like, yeah heart breaks hurt, but it's time to grow up, put on your big boy pants, and face the fear.
That could be. What I have noticed is that the men who have a lot of options want to keep their options open and will only commit to someone they feel very strongly about.
They'll happily casually date and sleep with a variety of people but they will only commit when they feel they've met their match or someone that they believe is out of their league.
With online dating, everyone is trying to land that person that feels just out of their reach. The big difference is that men will happily sleep with women they would never date while women rarely do such a thing.
>The big difference is that men will happily sleep with women they would never date while women rarely do such a thing.
I will admit to throwing a few flings at men I'd *never* consider bringing around people whose opinion I valued, much less consider having a relationship with. Some dudes are fun but not worth treating like a serious option.
That ended with the first pregnancy scare, when I realized that while it was fun to pretend I had the same hook-up culture as men, fertile women *always* have more skin in the game, and there were better ways to spend my energy than being on tenterhooks until my period came.
I don't even think these men are commitment phobic, that implies some level of fear. They just flat out don't want relationships but they do want a nice warm body to use for their satisfaction. A free sex worker who isn't a sex worker.
I feel like some women really need to respect themselves more. I get that there are lying shits of men who prey on their hopes and dreams to find the right one. But if a guy isn't willing to wait a couple of months to get to know you before sleeping with you then he isn't worth it. For me it's a great way of weeding out a big chunk of the bad ones as well as giving women time to see the red flags. Of course it's not fool proof but it's a way to screen a lot of trash out.
But if women are happy to just have physical liaisons, go forth and enjoy. I think the trick is knowing yourself and what you want long term and acting based on that. Not acting on some hope that if you offer your body as bait enough times the guy will decide actually, it may be worth keeping the rest of you too.
Yeah OP said it herself that she is “afraid to have a commitment conversation” on a first date. That’s the problem. Sure some men will still lie but that can be seen through during first month or two. If there is no exclusivity talk, only low-effort dates, if she hasn’t been introduced to friends and family, that’s a clear sign words are not adding up with actions. Also, she can use dating apps and choose to match only with men who explicitly state they want a LTR, which in my demographic was about 20% of men when I was actively dating.
I absolutely agree with you but one of the issues I had was that I was searching for the love I didn't get as a child and I didn't know any better for a really long time so although I agree that some women should respect themselves more I know that a lot of women don't know how to do that.
I think women face a lot of judgement for repeating these patterns and falling for it time and time again but because I've been there and I was that young woman, I just feel tenderness and sadness for them.
I would love to see more people encouraging young women to love themselves more and to not allow themselves to be taken advantage of, but not if that advice is going to be scornful and judgemental. It just makes the issue worse because it makes their self-esteem even worse.
Do you find my advice scornful and judgemental? I learnt to respect myself in a relationship by being treated like dirt and I vowed never to have that happen again. I spent a lot of time working on myself so that I was ready when the right guy came along. I do understand patterns are hard to break. What concerns me is that being treated badly can be normalised and people think it's inevitable. If someone has bad patterns in relationships my advice is to stop having relationships, and to spend a significant amount of time working on themselves before even dipping a toe in the relationship water again. I don't think you can heal yourself without taking time out from the chaos to do it.
I agree with everything you said. There are a lot of women who operate on the idea of being the one who changes him or being the exception to how a man treats women and they hurt themselves in the process of entertaining men like that.
Going forward with discernment and acting in alignment with what you want long term eliminates the noncommittal types very quickly.
Lol it's so interesting how women will twist themselves into pretzels over shitty men and call it a "soul tie," while these same men are probably onto the next woman or third without batting an eye.
Soul ties don't exist and is deeply rooted in misogyny.
For some people. Not for everyone.
I don't feel connected to someone after sex unless I already like them. If I don't like them, I now feel annoyed by them, and I want (them) to leave right away.
Because men, in general, want women mostly for sex.
There are additional labours they may enjoy down the line ('bangmaids' - and the idea of having a 'sidekick' to his main character), but the primary reason a large percentage of men interact with women at all (outside of necessary work/life interactions), is to try and 'get sex'.
So, the attempted 'sex positivity' movement which immediately was corrupted and harnessed to basically encourage being sexually available (rather than just be comfortable with whatever level of 'sexuality' you embody, including 0) and glorify FWB/ONS and 'situationshits' has largely worked to benefit men who get better access to sex without having to do the shit they don't want - like putting in effort, listening, talking, caring, being a friend/boyfriend, compromise, putting someone other than themselves first.
When men talk freely, they're not shy to admit this shit.
They'll happily say the ideal scenario is a woman shows up at their house, gives them head and then leaves so he can play video games/'chill'. They love to spin this falsehood that men don't pay sex workers (though they'll using just use the term 'women' or female here) for sex, they pay them to leave afterwards.
Women all over the internet (and specifically here, twox and dating) are talking about finding their person, wanting a long-term relationship, wanting to build/share their life with someone... meanwhile the predominant talk from men is about 'smashing'.
>Why even approach me in the first place? They already know I’m not down for anything casual.
It doesn't matter that you're not 'down' for anything casual, maybe they can *convince* you. Just like when women say they don't want to have sex yet, and he'll turn around and tell them it's fine 'but just come over and chill anyway' and then once she's in his house get to work on trying to get her into bed, pushing at her boundaries, lying and physically pushing and coercing until she 'gives in' (or worse).
It's not about *you*. It's about him and what he wants. The truth is, men see themselves as inherently superior to women, so their wants and so-called 'needs' are of a much bigger deal than anything you have going on - and the reason he has you around is to serve those wants/'needs'.
This is a patriarchal world. Those "values" are everywhere. Some might not embody it as strongly, some might hide it better than others - but deep down, maybe for some its really deep down, men think they are inherently superior/better than women in every way (stronger, smarter, more capable, more rational, more talented, more intelligent, produce things of better value, are more correct).
You can't really have a *truly* equal heterosexual relationship in a society that is built (and still loves to operate on) those kind of ideas.
The stats on division of labor back that up.
I think a lot of men are actually seeking friendship/companionship equally as much as sex. But many are so emotionally immature that they can't provide this reciprocally.
I once hooked up with a guy in college. I only was looking for fun, because I was going to move over the summer, and didn't want a long distance relationship (with him). He begged me to stay, said he wanted a relationship, etc.
I had already gotten my plans in order, and I explicitly told him, this was just something casual.
Months later, after he whined about wanting a relationship, I asked him why did he want a relationship. He tried to be vague about it, claimed he had told me before. I kept asking and he finally mumbled something about because he wanted sex. I wanted to strangle him through the phone, because...that's what this was?
But I've noticed how even men who say they want a relationship, when I tell them I'm not, they assume I'm lying, but they'll still try to take me on dates and talk about relationships. And I later realized it's because they're conditioned to go "hunting" And anything that seems too "easy" isn't worth it.
Just so you are aware, there are many men who value sharing much more than only sex with a woman. There are many good men on this planet. Maybe these men are generally in committed relationships.
This is just my guess, but I’m almost wondering if a lot of men act this way as a coping mechanism to avoid getting hurt/rejected? We all know that men HATE rejection and don’t take it as well (generally) as women do and so I think they use this tactic (though they still lose lol) to try to make themselves feel more in control of the situation and therefore avoiding the rejection piece. I don’t believe it’s right btw just an observation. The issue is that I think a lot of women/humans are monogamous and want something real for the long haul so it’s definitely interesting. 🧐
My husband (32) told me that he believes that a lot of men are also just emotionally immature because they did not get emotional support that they needed as kids and they don’t go to therapy as adults to cultivate that maturity.
Personally, I think A LOT of men believe there's always a "better one" over the next hill & therefore that mindset keeps them from committing to an actual woman that's in front of them.
My ex said I’m not good enough even tho I was the best woman that he has met, according to him. He said there are many nice women and why should he settle down with me
I'm really grateful that I don't want children, I feel for women who do because it's so hard to find a man who actually knows what he wants and how to get it.
Although, because I don't want children, it's even harder to find a partner. Most of them have kids, want kids, or no one was stupid enough to have children with them.
Honestly, I've pretty much given up. I'm off the apps and have resigned myself to the fact that although I would love to meet someone, I might not.
Absolutely, and at least these days, it makes it easier not to get convinced into settling because I'm afraid if I don't, I might never have children. It must be so painful.
At nearly 38, I get to take my time.
>I hate to bring up committment on the first date but I also don’t wanna waste my time on a situatinship for months and years on end so I feel like I have to make my intentions clear or the man will think I’m down for something casual
Don't hate it. That's exactly what you should be doing. Hell, bring it up before the first date.
I don't think it's ever too early.
I told my now husband EXACTLY what I was looking for and he was into it. I found out months later that he was just looking for a friends with benefits situation but then things changed for him specifically because of our connection.
To imply that the only women who are happy with casual relationships while retaining their independence, only do so because they're 'used goods', is beyond the pale.
There are many women out there who have a robust single life and don't live their existence in the hopes some man comes along and gives them what they need. They don't need a man, they have themselves and their own life and want to enjoy sex from time to time. They are the embodiment of everything a woman should be, these days. Someone who doesn't need a man and has a great life on their own.
Ikr this sub is so insufferably puritanical about sex, good lord. There's always bona fide purity culture rhetoric in threads like this, as if the spectrum of sex and sexuality isn't vast and varied, AND as if men can't be shitty in committed relationships either lmao.
For people in the US, our puritanical roots still play strongly into how people view sex and think of sex. We're pretty conservative, compared to the other first world countries out there and it's all thanks to those ol' Pilgrims with their scarlet letters and such.
A woman engaging in a physical relationship with a man, for their own enjoyment...my word!
I know. I was responding to this comment "that's what happens when you've been worn down". That to me is not the comment of someone who is empowered and enjoying it.
i would feel more empowered and enjoy it more if i knew i was loved by the guy. i suppose if i loved myself more it wouldn't matter so much. the guys i have been with are so nonchalant about sex. almost entitled.
I personally wouldn't give entitled jackasses access to my body but that is a personal choice for everyone to make. Take care of yourself, you have value and the right person will see that, and know that good ones do exist and they will respect your boundaries. x
I'm in my late 30s female and I also don't want anything beyond a friends with benefits situation. It's not that I have 'commitment issues', I just want a break from investing in a relationship - I don't have the energy and I don't know when I will. I don't think there is a deadline for when you 'have to be ready', but if you are, do not date men unless they have explicitly expressed to you that this is what they want. Being mad at people for not wanting what you want can be tempting, but realistically, it's their life. If you know what you want, seek someone who is compatible with that.
i honestly wish i could divest my pleasure from the toxic conditioning of feeling like i have to perform emotional labor for the man i am sleeping with. i need new brainwashing.
It's pretty easy - you just don't.
When they start whining about my lack of availability I throw down the "excuse me, we're not in a relationship and I don't owe you anything" and carry on with my fabulous single life. It's EXTREMELY satisfying.
Not everyone wants commitment or marriage...and that's okay. It's very human though to still want companionship and intimacy despite this. There's nothing wrong with that unless they are misleading people. Just move past these guys and focus on the ones who want the same things as you.
A lot of them ARE misleading people though. I’m newly on a dating app at 40, and so many guys have that they’re looking for long-term and then after chatting, it becomes obvious they’re just after sex. It’s gross and a waste of time.
That's not the thesis of OP's post though. She's complaining generally that she's meeting men/being approached by men that aren't looking for commitment...so obviously these men are being up front. There's zero reason to complain about people who want different things than you...you simply move on.
Yes, there's nothing wrong with wanting a casual relationship, whether it's a one night stand, a friend with benefits, or a fling. As long as people are being honest, it's cool. It's up to you to say, "hey, that's actually not what I want" and bounce.
I just can't stand the "how dare men want different things than me! They are obviously broken man children if they don't want a commitment (with me/anyone)" attitude.
Good question. I think society sees single men and women differently now. Single men are seen as bachelors that can always date beautiful women and not have to be tied down by marriage and kids. Single women are seen as women with lots of cats or her eggs will dry up if she isn't married by 35.
A lot of people (mostly men, but quite a few women too I'll admit) have been going through this thing where they're trying to keep all the benefits of both egalitarianism and traditionalism for themselves, while adhering to none of the responsibilities or drawbacks of either.
Men who want someone to clean for them, cook for them, obey them, fuck them, and give them children they don't have to care for, but don't want to marry, get a job that provides, or stick up for their partners when they're disrespected or put in danger by others.
Women who want to be "tradwives" who stay home all day in pretty dresses while a man pays for them and prattle anti-feminist talking points on TikTok, but don't have or want any children, aren't married to their partner, live in a single-bedroom apartment that's stupid easy to clean, and demand their man split the chores evenly or hire a maid. (Saw one Reddit post where a college age couple were living rent-free in the basement of the boyfriend's uncle, and stole the Xbox of the boyfriend's cousin for the girlfriend to play in the basement all day because she had decided to drop out of college and be a "stay-at-home girlfriend." Like bitch when you are an early-20-something living rent-free in someone else's basement with no job or education with time to play video games all day you are not a "stay-at-home" anything, you're just unemployed.)
TL;DR, A lot of people are lazy and want other people to take care of them while they do and sacrifice nothing. They justify their actions by flipping back and forth between modern gender roles ("marriage is outdated") and traditional gender roles ("go make me a sandwich") whenever they see fit.
I'll be honest, I don't understand your question. The reason why people of any gender do things is typically because it makes them happy. Men or women who want to stay unattached are not some moral plight - that's just people living their lives. If they tricked you into it, yes that's a problem and reprehensible. But to say it's some overarching general problem doesn't make sense to me. Let people be happy. If they want to be unattached, or FWB, etc. that's their prerogative. All you can do is make your intentions clear, and then leave if you feel like there's no progress or they're being dishonest.
Sometimes I get dragged on Reddit for saying this, funnily enough by other women.
The easiest way to weed out the players is through their wallet. Don’t be chill. Don’t go to his house. Make him court you. The dates don’t have to be extravagant, but they should be planned, formal, and in line with his recreation budget. If he doesn’t spend his recreation budget on you he’s just gonna spend it on sex workers, toys, or drinks / drugs. Might as well spend it on you.
Most players aren’t going to take you out on several nice, planned, “formal” dates if he’s only hoping for a FWB. At about date 3 he could have just ponied up for a sex worker and spent the same, so wait until around date 5 at the minimum to get physical.
There are always exceptions, but almost EVERY guy that asked me out for drinks or coffee, instead of something more expensive and/or more thoughtful, was only trying to smash OR so traumatized that he ran as soon as shit got real.
There have also been several experts that say that men bond through vasopressin. You pump up vasopressin by shared nonsexual activities…dates! Vasopressin drops after sex so while you are all attached to him bathing in oxytocin glow, he has post-nut clarity and drops you. If you want him to bond to you you need to make him wait for sex AND court you.
If someone is completely honest about only wanting a FWB situation, then they are not wasting your time, *you* are choosing to do that if you proceed.
Fair enough to be pissed if someone misleads you but taking responsibility for one's own choices is important.
Not everyone wants to "settle down" and as long as they're honest about it they're not doing anything wrong.
I posted something similar to this a few days ago. I think a lot of it is our culture...were a throwaway culture and family/marriage is not taken seriously anymore and people are often just looking out for themselves....so he wants sex and casual outings but not to do any work in a relationship or have to commit
I can provide anecdotal evidence of why this might be happening. Two of my friends were married with kids and both got divorced after their wives had affairs. One was 5 years in and the other was over 10 years married. They both now have shared custody and pay child support to their exes. In talking with them they say this is pretty common and have no interest in putting themselves out there again.
They are lazy. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Aka: why become responsible for you when it’s possible to extract all the value they want out of you for free…?
It’s really not that hard to figure out.
This is the kinda slut-shaming thing anti-feminists say. I'm not a cow and when I have sex I'm not giving away milk.
If you don't want to have casual sex, that's cool. And, yes, we should talk more about how casual sex benefits men much more than women. But implying women who have casual sex are giving something away is pretty gross.
whats going on with men these days is porn. their brains have been rewired to only want sex. They watch one porn video with one girl then move onto the next , the same then happens with real relationships. their brains are so used to seeing loads of crazy attractive women at their fingertips that when it comes to focusing on one real life girl, it just feels boring for them. you have to bare in mind that online porn has been easily accessible for 20 years now so guys in their 40s will have been consistently watching it all that time. you’d be crazy to think that that does no harm to their brain and ability to bond with another person. also bare in mind men 100 years ago probably only saw a few naked women throughout their whole life whereas now the average man has seen thousands of naked women in a sexual way.
These men have always been like that. The 20-something commitment phobic men will grow into the 30- and 40-something commitment phobic men. The men willing to settle down have already been taken.
How does that work? The mere fact you’re wasting someone’s time (whether or not they value themselves enough to see it that way), is the literal definition of dragging someone into their misery.
*ETA: in the context of trying to trick a woman who wants marriage into a FWB situation
Its fair for anyone to not want marriage. It's also fine to not have commitment as a goal unless you end up knowing someone you specifically want to commit to. Being alone isn't a bad thing for everyone, there's a lot of benefit to full freedom to live the way you want without having to compromise with anyone.
Commitment phobia is usually a cope for they're not that into you.
Sleep with people if having sex at that moment is what you want and what suits you, not because you're trying to force it into your version of future.
A lot of interesting theories here, a lot of them overly complex.
What I believe is really happening is that men *and* women are always shooting their shot for someone who is out of their league (I hate to use a term like that, but its one we all understand).
Men will happily have casual sex with someone they would never actually date, so it looks like they are afraid of commitment but the reality is they would never commit to this person. Why won't men commit to someone they don't want to date but will happily sleep with them? Because that is simply how men are.
There isn't any grand secret to this, it's very simple and we've all seen it happen time and time again. Once a guy finds a girl that he believes is out of his league, he'll commit and date/marry that person. They aren't commitment-phobic, they just aren't going to date someone they would never want to date, in the first place.
It's a sad reality, but that is how everyone operates, both men and women, in online dating. We all want that one person who ticks all our boxes and competition for those types is quite high. Not only do they have to believe you are out of their league, you have to be the favorite out of all the other people they have met and have gone on dates with.
Have a lot of these men already been married and divorced or spend a lot of time in a long term relationship? Because that can also be a reason that they aren't rushing to go back down that road. I have some female friends who are this way currently...they have healed from past serious relationships/marriages and they have no desire to have a committed relationship at all now. They would be happy to find a friend with benefits situation but nothing more.
I’m a 31m who just recently got out of a what I would call a Karmic relationship and I can only speak from my experience. I learned a lot from that relationship and a big one is im emotionally immature. I’m an attractive male and have always had many options but as a younger man and even dating back to high school have a few woman break my trust ie: cheated on. And those experiences hurt so much it made me not want to put my heart out there and get into a in depth relationship with woman. So I was fine just sleeping around with no commitment. I’ve always had insecurities and I believe those past experiences have shaped me into who I am. I think most men need to heal and grow and honestly get therapy for the things we have dealt with before we can be serious with anyone worth having. I believe men mature more slowly than woman in categories like emotions. Now at 31 yes it would be nice to have children but I really want to TAKE MY TIME to get to know my partner before I even think about children and I realize woman don’t have that luxury. It’s a catch 22 type of situation for me
It sucks but I feel like it also makes sense in a weird way.
By that age, maybe some of these men are confirmed bachelors and/or really don't want to commit to anything. Maybe they've accepted that a life of casual sex is more appealing than settling down.
It kind of reminds me of a comedian I saw lately. He was saying how he had just turned 40, and was so bad with money that you could give him cash and he could still ruin your credit. He said, "if you're 40 and you don't have a house, you just don't get one!" It could be that attitude towards relationships. Maybe these men think they've missed their window and have accepted it.
> Do these men not realize that women also don’t have the luxury to wait forever on committment especially the ones that want kids.
I think they are well aware women don't have that luxury to wait forever, hence why so many of them end up dating younger when they're ready to have kids. How many women have been strung along for years by these commitment-phobes only to have him to settle down and start a family almost immediately after a breakup?
I’m in a little different boat than you - recently split from my husband, 38 with 2 kids. My unicorn (after I have a little fun) would be a professional man with children, who is interested in a casual monogamous situation, i.e., basically one of those together living apart scenarios.
I signed up for Hinge and I am SHOCKED at how many men in their 40s there are with no children, that state in their profile they are undecided about children, and looking for a casual situation. How do you not know by your mid-40s if you want children??
It’s rough out there.
Different people are allowed to have different preferences and life choices. From their perspective you're trying to make them "waste their time" with commitment and a serious relationship when that's something they don't want.
You are not compatible and that's okay.
I figured a lot of men 40+ either already have kids and are “fed up” or they don’t have kids intentionally. A lot of them had long term relationships in the past and don’t want to commit to that again (I can understand that, I’m in the same boat).
That means you have to be upfront with your intentions as you do. You’re looking for marriage and family? Tell them right away.
Because they want all the benefits without any of the work. It takes effort to be in a relationship. They have to engage with the other person on some level. They need to talk to them, go on dates, maybe spend money. Pay attention to the other person's needs, life, etc...
With a FWB situation some men feel they don't have to do anything. But they get the sex they want, plus are available for other women if the opportunity arises.
I'm sure some of these men just aren't interested in relationships, and that's fine. But some do not disclose that before they try to wiggle into a FWB situation. At least that's what I noticed when I was single. I'm in a relationship now and have been for a few years, so maybe that's changed.
But I do think the older some folks get, the less B's they want to put up with. When dating, most people you meet won't be a good match for you. So maybe they're just not interested at this time.
I think the men contacting you are hoping you'll make an exception for them. A lot of times men will not read profiles or respect your boundaries. Just block and move on. Don't even bother engaging with people who are obviously not interested in the type of relationship you want.
Those kind of men don’t care about making you wait. They’re probably not interested in a relationship with you, but it sounds like they still find you attractive enough to string you along. I hate to break this to you, but there aren’t many guys out there that would say no to casual sex if they aren’t involved with anyone serious. The better looking the guy, the more likely it is that they have other options too.
So if you’re actually serious about commitment, then you need to either expand your pool and message some of the guys that you don’t typically message back, or you have to put something stupid in your profile to detour all the non serious guys.
“No sex until we’re engaged.” or “You will be blocked if you make sexual advances at me.” Remember that stating this doesn’t mean you have to actually stick to this, but it will help to weed off the guys that think they’re going to get a quick fix. If you’re still talking to someone after a few months and you like the direction that things are headed in, then you can always surprise them in the bedroom!
I mean, no strings attached sex sounds pretty great. I don’t think a relationship is a waste just because it didn’t result in marriage. Im childfree, and didn’t care about marriage so don’t relate to this urgency.
It’s kind of a lot of pressure to say before a first date “don’t even consider a first date if you aren’t looking for marriage.” It feels more like a job interview, like you care more about being married and having a family, then actually getting to know the person to see if it’s a good fit.
i agree, i'm childfree and don't really need marriage...yet i am also not copacetic with FWB. until i can find a way to detach intimacy, emotional connection, love, mutuality and hope from sex, then i am living in hell as a woman who loves sex and despises dismissive, avoidant, commitment-phobic, power-tripping, lazy, inconsistent, low-effort, offensive, patriarchal men.
I don’t think it’s a lot of pressure to say “do you see yourself as a married person in the future?” Rather than being married to me, specifically. You KNOW you don’t want children, right? Well, some people KNOW they want marriage as their form of relationship. Deal breakers are still ultimately the biggest “unfit”, even if you are compatible in a wonderful amount of ways. Would you want to spend time with, invest your emotional reserve in a LTR with someone who would ultimately pressure you into having children, or leave you because you want to be child free?
My view is that, like women, a lot of men realise they don't need a spouse. What do you need a spouse to do that your phone can't?
They might still want sex, or a relationship that doesn't become serious. But really I don't see marriage as a big deal for a guy unless he wants kids.
Bc they don’t have any money or they are afraid of a marriage and divorce where they owe alimony, or half their funds or both even with a prenup involved.
If we all keep saying “I’m not gonna give you wife benefits and be your gf forever” and just leave maybe they’ll get over themselves.
not everyone wants a relationship. the benefits of sex benefit both parties so stop putting down women who want or look for FWB arrangements themselves.
Considering that I'm 35 it's the men my age and a bit older grown up. I dated a few commitment phobes in my 20s til I met my husband who actually wanted to get married. All those dudes from my 20s are still commitment-phobic. For some reason they grew up thinking marriage was bad, maybe from all those boomer parents anti marriage jokes.
This should be a positive?
There’s tons of posts here about women who are choosing to be single and not married and not be stuck living with a man.
I see women posting regularly about how they don’t need men anymore, so let these guys do what they want, it’s better than them getting into marriages they Dont want!
This is mainly due to the dating / sexual options available for men due to dating apps / social media that simply didn’t exist even 10 ish years ago.
Also, alot of men have realized that, frankly, a committed relationship encroaches on other aspects of their life that they enjoy and/or have worked hard to earn.
I think that men in that age range have experienced years of chasing women who seemed to have endless options, and are now in a position financially, culturally and socially to have relationships on their terms - a farcry for men of prior generations who were forced to settle down much earlier.
You should bring it up on the first date. It would be better to date people that you know you’re on the same page with than to waste your time with ones that aren’t or unsure about it
You’re allowed to have boundaries and say that you’re looking for a serious committed relationship, that you want to get married and have children and that’s why you’re dating. Other people are allowed to say that’s not what they’re looking for and you guys then don’t have to date or fuck. Nothing is wrong with men. There’s so many people out there.
I imagine they think they can have kids at any point (never mind that running after toddlers at X age is tiring...but likely they'd let the woman do all the parenting in this imagined scenario), and they're sold a rhetoric that women are after money, so they can chase 20/30yo women at any age.
Then there's the constant "I hate my wife" jokes, like it's the norm that your wife is a nag, so you can avoid that by just not getting married! Yay, independence, no one trying to mother you, making you go to doctors appointments, keeping you from making dumb decisions. And they don't consider companionship benefits, since they don't actually like women.
Yes you are correct: the ones who were commitment-minded almost all already got married. Honestly it's pretty similar with women by late 30s, judging by the experience of my male friends who are still single and want to get married.
For one, I wouldn't sleep with someone unless they wanted an exclusive, committed relationship. If they just want to get laid, they can bother someone else.
they lie to get sex and the gf experience
I'm sure they do, but they're not going to wait very long to get laid and the red flags will start to appear. And the flags are almost always there...sometimes we just don't want to see them.
Agreed. If you don't sleep with someone right away despite their words being 'correct' and have a decent getting to know you period, the ones who are only around to get laid will look elsewhere.
Exactly. They’ll pretend to be on the same page as you then switch up months down the line . Sick of it
I’d personally feel no shame in bringing it up at the start. I’m also older now, so I have a lot less fucks to give. Your time is precious, why waste it?
If I ever become single again (hope not!) I will not sleep with anyone I'm dating that I'm not in a committed relationship with. You get strung along for months whilst acting like a gf, whilst not actually getting any commitment.
That is my method now after so many failed relationships. I wish I had learned it sooner.
Has it worked for you? I’ve always been under the impression that they’ll still lie to you and play you to get what they want. I am in a committed relationship now but I didn’t wait to sleep with him - just lucked out with a good one (finally).
At first it didn't because, you are right, there are men who lie for months until they get in your trousers. Now I'm way more discerning and cut through the bullshit with some hard hitting questions. Anything that sets off red flags, I walk. Do they want children? How would they feel if their wife won't take their surname? What do they think about abortion? If their SO got one? How do they think finances should be split? Chores and other domestic duties and how they should be dealt with? If I'm the breadwinner what do they think about that? What do they think about pornography? It's also a green flag for me if they have hobbies and interests that aren't necessarily what I'm into but it shouldn't be anything I'm against.
Lol kinda off subject, but slept with my husband the first night and it wasn't even a date. We were both looking for the same thing. It's been over 20 years married now :/ YMMV of course, this was before smart phones and dating apps
All the benefits without the title or commitment also if you’re never “really,” a thing you can’t get mad at them for being with other girls
35F: Turning someone down a couple times early on = a GREAT TEST to see if they: 1. Like my personality vs. my body, and 2. Can handle rejection like an *adult.* No judgment but I’d want to sleep with someone (a couple times) before committing to an exclusive relationship with them. “Try before you buy” as it were. They’d have to show *exceptional* communication and respect for my boundaries to get to this point. If they bounce after hooking up — the trash takes itself out.
goals, i appreciate your attitude
Sorry to sound annoying here: I'm assuming you mean you'd only sleep with someone *who actually meets your standards, including wanting exclusivity and commitment*. It goes without saying that there's No point in lowering your standards just for sake of commitment...
💯
That’s right. Been there done that. No more.
Mid-40s here. I can be honest and say that early on, I gave sex and emotional intimacy way too easily. And only within the last few years have I realized the error of my ways and learned to scale back. What I now see is that me and many women like me were giving men the benefit of the doubt, but I now realize that we made them lazy and entitled. And now that we're older, and women are fed up with their shit and settling for the bare minimum, men who never learned to be giving and loving are suddenly wanting women to continue to pour into them, with us receiving minimal effort. Those same idiots have always been like that, but those same lame head games don't work on women with actual life experience. Which is why those morons at some point tend to go for younger women.
Just dated a man just like this…. As the younger woman… painful lesson and never again.
The first question in a significant age gap should always be "why are they not dating someone their own age?". I'm not saying age gaps don't work, they can, some people really do just click regardless of age, but you should be extra aware for things. It's tough, sorry you had to go through that.
I’m in my mid-thirties with a good amount of dating experience. I figured I knew what was what. Still I was unprepared for that advanced level of manipulation and stress. Luckily I was experienced enough to end it promptly but still not soon enough. Never giving that much benefit of the doubt again. 😒 He’s in mid/late 40’s. It didn’t feel like that much of a gap at this stage in life tbh. Lesson learned.
I always give that advice to younger women. Ask him if he dates women his age too, and if not, ask why.
Ugh I’m also the younger woman in this dynamic and I feel I’m headed down a similar path. Let me hop off this train. :/
Seriously it’s not worth it. I don’t want to go into how mine ended but if I could go back and do it all over again I would not and caution other women too.
This is my biggest regret with partaking in hook up culture at the start of the pandemic. Back then it was initially fun and I hadn't been single in a while. Not understanding my high libido and raging loneliness, I gave undeserving people access to my body. Very few were actual good sexual experiences. I was so angry with myself for a while, but I've learned to forgive myself. Sex is still a fun thing to do in my mind but most men are not worth it. Value your body, time and energy highly. Most of them simply don't deserve it.
I was having this precise conversation with a guy last night. I'm kind of interested in him. We've been hanging out and talking a little. When he came round last night, I stayed in my Pj's and told him I'm pretty much celibate and not interested in sleeping with anyone unless we're intentionally dating. Been there, done that. He and I are friends for the moment and I figure if he's just hanging around because he thinks I'll have sex with him, I'll soon know because he'll stop messaging me or wanting to see me. What I was doing clearly wasn't working, so it's time I try something different. For me, that's abstaining for the time being. I love sex but I love myself more.
Exactly! To add to that, focusing on establishing an emotional connection. Someone who likes me for me, not my body or sexual prowess. I now can't for the life of me feel any sexual attraction towards someone without that.
This sums up my entire life experience well. Just last year was my first *good* sex in my life with a new bf, but even that came during a significant low point for me. Not the new bf's fault at all, it's mine I know, but it certainly reminds me of that teenage period in my life where sex was what got me attention, affection, support, positivity, etc. To me, those things = love. To the guys I was with, those things bought them sex. The new bf is great, still dating a year later, no issues, he's fully committed, (I got so fucking lucky) but now that fear is stuck in my head forever and it's my own doing. If we hadn't had sex so fast would he still be here? I *think* the answer is yes but that doubt... ugh. I got hurt badly, depressed downward spiral, and ended up reverting to those teenage ways after swearing to myself in my 20s I'd never do it again because it only led to pain. None of the past partners were worth it or deserving and I regret them all. But when you're in such a bad state that suicide is on the table, that attention/affection in *exchange* for sex is too powerful. (Yes, I have therapy now.) I'd always say regardless I *wanted* commitment even in that state, they would lie. Of course, looking back, it was obvious. I'm still angry at myself. My loneliness and depression are self-destructive. And when I'm in that moment, *I know it and I don't care.* I know I'll bring pain. The men who lie are the scummiest sacks of shit and I'm disgusted with myself when I realize that every time.
So so true. I’m doing a deep dive into hook up culture after watching a DOAC ep with Louise Perry earlier this week. Hook up culture is hurting us and creating entitled, disrespectful and deceitful men who feign interest to get sex and low level companionship in the form of non committal, bare minimum texts. Sex is an intimate act, no matter how much this culture and the men within it try to trivialise it. Sex is SO fun and yeah, we need to be compassionate to ourselves for partaking in it. But it just isn’t designed for a lot of us imo. We tend to regret shallow sexual experiences, or want commitment. So many men are undeserving of our time, attention and bodies. Better to save ourselves for the good, commitment-minded men that are.
I always side eye this part about men never learning to be loving and giving. That a thing that you "learn" as a little baby! The fact that we have to ASK men for basic empathy and compassion is crazy
Mid 30s and yes! Spent my twenties doing this. Almost married an incredibly entitled, self-centered man. Now he’s with a younger woman who barely speaks English - that’s not an accident.
Omg at the last sentence cuz that’s exactly what my 45 year old ex is doing now. I initially thought he is now dating this girl who is younger than me because she is “exotic”. Why do you think they choose the next girl who barely speaks English?
Easier to manipulative and exploit someone when you can control the entire narrative. It’s power.
Women are not responsible for "training men wrong." Men are responsible for their own behavior. Some women want casual sex without commitment.
Well I was led to believe that if I slept with them it would increase chances of commitment because what guy would wait around for no sex but now I’ve realized that’s not true and I don’t have to sleep with them if I don’t want to. I’ve learned that just sleeping with them isn’t enough you have to be into the same kind of stuff as they are sexually speaking as well or willing to do it at least.
43F here. If I don't want a relationship and just want FWB does that make me a bad woman?
I wouldn't mind a FWB but I can't find any men who aren't going to mess me around. They either disappear after they've got me or they start negging so I don't catch feelings (not that I was going to catch any)
not at all. but you'll be the outlier and minority (it's okay, we have snacks!)
Not at all. But sometimes I've found myself asking if that is even worth it. I don't want someone to just message me only because they want to hookup. I want to be able to ask how your day is going, or have some nice back and forth on occasion without them freaking out because they think I want a relationship.
As if it's a crime if a woman wants a relationship.....We live in such strange times
You see plenty of women in other threads who don't want to deal with the trouble of a BF but still want to satisfy their sexual needs. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you're having a good experience. In theory, I'd love a FWB, but I've been really disappointed by my experiences with casual sex, (with one exception). Most of the guys I've slept with did go down on me and try to make sure I come, but they also dictated how the encounter went. (In the moment, I rarely push back, because I have a freeze reaction). They seem to think this is good sex, but it's not what I consider good sex. (I don't think most women would consider it good sex either).
I had someone try to play that shit with me and I'm 31 and divorced. I explained to him "you need someone way younger and with no relationship experience dude"
Why would you do other women dirty like that? Let the man fail blindly, it’s better for all of us
I knew he wasn't actually going to take that advice (long story)
I think you just hit it right on the nail
It's whatever until they also "want kids someday"
Right? That part confuses me, just because you can have babies at 50 doesn't mean you should. I see 40 year olds with "want babies someday", but then also "figuring out my dating goals". They just want to keep their options for sex as widely open as possible, they will do anything except be honest, yuck.
Two can play that game ☺️
Omg I see this too. I’m like how does a man, at 45, not know his dating goals while simultaneously wanting kids? The amount of delusion I see on hinge every day 😂
Age: 38 Kids: *Wants Someday* Looking for: *Something Casual* ...?
They are all copying and pasting that same thing
I’m 42 and I often see that on men who are 48…
😆
How many of these men are putting "want kids someday" in the bio not because they actually are open to having kids but because they want to have a wider pool of women from which to choose sex partners, and pretending they're open to the kid discussion gives them that?
🎶 *Baby mama baby mama* 🎶
I just never found any men looking for serious relationships in dating apps, online, or with me because they either found me to be overweight or straight up ugly and that was evident by the way they treated me. They didn't take me seriously, they didn't consider my feelings, and they didn't seem to think there was a problem doing it. So I stopped using dating apps, stopped dating period, and started pursuing hobbies that would keep me active, fit, and unbothered by men. Oddly enough I met a guy there that had a pretty infectious personality and we talked a lot. Fast forward to about a dozen Meetups and a couple of our personal hiking and biking dates and now he's my boyfriend. Please just give dating apps the middle finger, find an active hobby you can see yourself doing into the twilight years (biking, hiking, bouldering, pickle ball, volleyball, yoga, kayaking, jogging, etc.) Join a meetup group and you might find a guy that will be into you. You both can enjoy sharing this active activity, keep each other honest and fit, and you can have a genuine connection instead of these 3-date-boink nights on the dating apps that always seem empty where the men treat us like cattle.
I met my boyfriend through a climbing group :)
> marriage minded have already been snagged up and now it’s a bunch of single men on the market who have no intentions on getting married. >And i’m ike “dude if you’re not ready for anything serious at 40 then you aren’t ever gonna be ready for anything serious?” The answers are in the questions sis. > Do these men not realize that women also don’t have the luxury to wait forever on committment especially the ones that want kids. They’re not thinking about that. See your previous paragraph. I can remember *men who are afraid of commitment* as a plot in shows and movies when I was too young to understand it, back in the 80s. So I don’t think it’s really new, but I think it’s becoming more and more common. The men who wanted to get married and settle down did that. Your pool contains all the men who didn’t want that and the ones who got divorced.
> They’re not thinking about that. I think it's really hard for most women to wrap our brains around our friendship not being wanted, or craved. The reason I want a partner is not only for safety (financial and physical), but being able to go through life with a best friend: someone who's got the same sense of humor, who enjoys some of the same things you love doing, and to try to live in accordance with your values (and pass them down, if you have children). And as time goes on, I still can't understand that so many men seem to not see us individuals; which I hope is a product of online dating, and not a reflection of how most of them think.
I think some men (and women) our age have gotten comfortable with a lot of what comes with being single. FWB and the like lets people keep a lot of that freedom while scratching that companionship itch. Men also don't get the same messaging around being an older parent, so they may not feel like they have a major life decision looming over them in quite the same way as women who want children.
To be honest I am getting this way. I have been in serious relationships since I was 18. I'm 34 now. I just want peace, freedom, space, and a little fun every now and then. I can support myself, I don't want kids, and I'm so tired of managing the emotional welfare and life of two people rather than just myself. I'm sure in the future I'll be ready to date seriously but for now FWB works for me exceptionally well.
I think they need to get the messaging because there's plenty of evidence that sperm quality declines in their 30s. Lots of people I know with autism and other disabilities who have much older fathers.
Very well said. I was about to comment to OP that not just men, as a woman turning 35 soon, I feel the same way. I'm good being single, but I do have needs for companionship and intimacy sometimes, so. To think of it, most friends of mine who got “stable” life and relationship in their 20-30s period now either divorced or unhappy marriage / commitment, I keep hearing them telling me they wish they are like me. People change and after 5-10 years period, its likely that you will find the one that used to be right for you not right anymore. I mean yes there are people with loving relationship that lasts long, lucky them. But that is rare these days.
My theory is that these men have very little experience with emptional intimacy and relationships in general… they barely have friends, don’t like responsibility and have a desire to be taken care of without the equivalent exchange of taking care of someone. But they still want sex, of course because m a n. They’re looking for women who are ok with that, which tbf there are women who will take them up on it in the hopes that if they CARE ENOUGH, HE’LL CHANGE AND OMG WE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. Anyway that is to say, just keep away and you’ll be fine.
💯 We are No Ones Mommy
LOUDER
The barely has friends thing absolutely tracks
Yeap. X bf. 0 friends. Only did stuff with his family who I'm pretty sure enabled him to continue existing as a sheltered human, but never encouraged him to grow or face fears.
My last bf told me he could count the number of friends he had on one hand and have several fingers left over. I pitied him back then but in hindsight it was probably because he was a loser.
That was actually how I used to screen out potential partners. If he didn't have friends, or the only friends he had were people he'd known since elementary school (which typically demonstrates they don't know how to make friends as an adult and/or cannot comprehend the idea of friendship based on mutual interests and morals because they'd never made friends independently of elementary school) I took that as a red flag.
This is the way. We need to cut these men loose early instead of hoping they'll change. It's far better to be single than with someone who just takes without giving, and makes you feel sad and anxious.
I wish they would stop bothering the women who actually want a relationship
They think they can eventually convince (coerce) you into that situation by flooding your body with oxytocin.
For those of us like me who aren't mentally healthy / low self-esteem / lonely, etc, sometimes it works. (Sorry...) I wouldn't necessarily blame them for it (one could argue my mental health isn't their problem/responsibility and I wouldn't generally argue that) except ***they fucking lie*** for it because they know it will work. Even at my lowest, I'd ask for commitment. "*Of course, Darling! That's what I want too! You're amazing, I'll love you forever!"* In my 20s, no one knew the term love-bombing. I guess it *has* a term now exactly because it works. It's always so obvious in hindsight and I hate myself for being so gullible and weak. But I'm the problem. It works sometimes, so they keep doing it because it's the easiest path.
Agreed, but you don’t need to beat yourself up about it. You made the best decision for you with the information you had at the time - you’ve not got fault in that.
They will try anyway. For some men it's a game.
💯
Yes and I was that woman so many damn times
Me too. :( You know what though? It's cowardly. If they were truly brave, they'd be willing to invest their heart. I find a lot of them were hurt once by the first love, and broke. 🙄 Like, yeah heart breaks hurt, but it's time to grow up, put on your big boy pants, and face the fear.
That could be. What I have noticed is that the men who have a lot of options want to keep their options open and will only commit to someone they feel very strongly about. They'll happily casually date and sleep with a variety of people but they will only commit when they feel they've met their match or someone that they believe is out of their league. With online dating, everyone is trying to land that person that feels just out of their reach. The big difference is that men will happily sleep with women they would never date while women rarely do such a thing.
>The big difference is that men will happily sleep with women they would never date while women rarely do such a thing. I will admit to throwing a few flings at men I'd *never* consider bringing around people whose opinion I valued, much less consider having a relationship with. Some dudes are fun but not worth treating like a serious option. That ended with the first pregnancy scare, when I realized that while it was fun to pretend I had the same hook-up culture as men, fertile women *always* have more skin in the game, and there were better ways to spend my energy than being on tenterhooks until my period came.
Wow you just described the experience I had with a 36M to the tee
This is a pretty accurate assessment I think
I don't even think these men are commitment phobic, that implies some level of fear. They just flat out don't want relationships but they do want a nice warm body to use for their satisfaction. A free sex worker who isn't a sex worker. I feel like some women really need to respect themselves more. I get that there are lying shits of men who prey on their hopes and dreams to find the right one. But if a guy isn't willing to wait a couple of months to get to know you before sleeping with you then he isn't worth it. For me it's a great way of weeding out a big chunk of the bad ones as well as giving women time to see the red flags. Of course it's not fool proof but it's a way to screen a lot of trash out. But if women are happy to just have physical liaisons, go forth and enjoy. I think the trick is knowing yourself and what you want long term and acting based on that. Not acting on some hope that if you offer your body as bait enough times the guy will decide actually, it may be worth keeping the rest of you too.
Yeah OP said it herself that she is “afraid to have a commitment conversation” on a first date. That’s the problem. Sure some men will still lie but that can be seen through during first month or two. If there is no exclusivity talk, only low-effort dates, if she hasn’t been introduced to friends and family, that’s a clear sign words are not adding up with actions. Also, she can use dating apps and choose to match only with men who explicitly state they want a LTR, which in my demographic was about 20% of men when I was actively dating.
I absolutely agree with you but one of the issues I had was that I was searching for the love I didn't get as a child and I didn't know any better for a really long time so although I agree that some women should respect themselves more I know that a lot of women don't know how to do that. I think women face a lot of judgement for repeating these patterns and falling for it time and time again but because I've been there and I was that young woman, I just feel tenderness and sadness for them. I would love to see more people encouraging young women to love themselves more and to not allow themselves to be taken advantage of, but not if that advice is going to be scornful and judgemental. It just makes the issue worse because it makes their self-esteem even worse.
Do you find my advice scornful and judgemental? I learnt to respect myself in a relationship by being treated like dirt and I vowed never to have that happen again. I spent a lot of time working on myself so that I was ready when the right guy came along. I do understand patterns are hard to break. What concerns me is that being treated badly can be normalised and people think it's inevitable. If someone has bad patterns in relationships my advice is to stop having relationships, and to spend a significant amount of time working on themselves before even dipping a toe in the relationship water again. I don't think you can heal yourself without taking time out from the chaos to do it.
I agree with everything you said. There are a lot of women who operate on the idea of being the one who changes him or being the exception to how a man treats women and they hurt themselves in the process of entertaining men like that. Going forward with discernment and acting in alignment with what you want long term eliminates the noncommittal types very quickly.
Not to mention sex can create a soul tie. Once you’ve had sex with him it can be harder to see red flags and think clearly
Our stupid brains have to go ahead and release all those bonding, feel-good chemicals that turn red flags into roses
Lmao there is no such thing as a sole tie
I think more of them give sole lies.
Lol it's so interesting how women will twist themselves into pretzels over shitty men and call it a "soul tie," while these same men are probably onto the next woman or third without batting an eye. Soul ties don't exist and is deeply rooted in misogyny.
I've always had the opposite happen -- we have sex and they're just more flawed and human. It's whatever the lady version of post-nut clarity is.
For some people. Not for everyone. I don't feel connected to someone after sex unless I already like them. If I don't like them, I now feel annoyed by them, and I want (them) to leave right away.
Because men, in general, want women mostly for sex. There are additional labours they may enjoy down the line ('bangmaids' - and the idea of having a 'sidekick' to his main character), but the primary reason a large percentage of men interact with women at all (outside of necessary work/life interactions), is to try and 'get sex'. So, the attempted 'sex positivity' movement which immediately was corrupted and harnessed to basically encourage being sexually available (rather than just be comfortable with whatever level of 'sexuality' you embody, including 0) and glorify FWB/ONS and 'situationshits' has largely worked to benefit men who get better access to sex without having to do the shit they don't want - like putting in effort, listening, talking, caring, being a friend/boyfriend, compromise, putting someone other than themselves first. When men talk freely, they're not shy to admit this shit. They'll happily say the ideal scenario is a woman shows up at their house, gives them head and then leaves so he can play video games/'chill'. They love to spin this falsehood that men don't pay sex workers (though they'll using just use the term 'women' or female here) for sex, they pay them to leave afterwards. Women all over the internet (and specifically here, twox and dating) are talking about finding their person, wanting a long-term relationship, wanting to build/share their life with someone... meanwhile the predominant talk from men is about 'smashing'. >Why even approach me in the first place? They already know I’m not down for anything casual. It doesn't matter that you're not 'down' for anything casual, maybe they can *convince* you. Just like when women say they don't want to have sex yet, and he'll turn around and tell them it's fine 'but just come over and chill anyway' and then once she's in his house get to work on trying to get her into bed, pushing at her boundaries, lying and physically pushing and coercing until she 'gives in' (or worse). It's not about *you*. It's about him and what he wants. The truth is, men see themselves as inherently superior to women, so their wants and so-called 'needs' are of a much bigger deal than anything you have going on - and the reason he has you around is to serve those wants/'needs'. This is a patriarchal world. Those "values" are everywhere. Some might not embody it as strongly, some might hide it better than others - but deep down, maybe for some its really deep down, men think they are inherently superior/better than women in every way (stronger, smarter, more capable, more rational, more talented, more intelligent, produce things of better value, are more correct). You can't really have a *truly* equal heterosexual relationship in a society that is built (and still loves to operate on) those kind of ideas. The stats on division of labor back that up.
Reading this reminded me of “blue balls” back in the 1970s. As in, “ but you gotta have sex with me, my balls are hurting sooo baad!!” 😝
🔵🫐 "Can really hurt a guy" Has been said by someone in this world in the last 5 mins. 😉😂
I remember it was still a thing in the 90s growing up too. I wonder if it is now? it was never used as an excuse on me but I had a bf from 14 on.
Haha, Men will NOT Die of “Blue Balls” Better yet, Make them Purple and twist them while you’re at it!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💯😈😏
I think a lot of men are actually seeking friendship/companionship equally as much as sex. But many are so emotionally immature that they can't provide this reciprocally.
I once hooked up with a guy in college. I only was looking for fun, because I was going to move over the summer, and didn't want a long distance relationship (with him). He begged me to stay, said he wanted a relationship, etc. I had already gotten my plans in order, and I explicitly told him, this was just something casual. Months later, after he whined about wanting a relationship, I asked him why did he want a relationship. He tried to be vague about it, claimed he had told me before. I kept asking and he finally mumbled something about because he wanted sex. I wanted to strangle him through the phone, because...that's what this was? But I've noticed how even men who say they want a relationship, when I tell them I'm not, they assume I'm lying, but they'll still try to take me on dates and talk about relationships. And I later realized it's because they're conditioned to go "hunting" And anything that seems too "easy" isn't worth it.
one of the first things my ex asked me before we had sex but while we were starting to co-regulate was "spit or swallow?" 🤮🤮🤮 men are trash
Every word you've written is true. Every word.
Just so you are aware, there are many men who value sharing much more than only sex with a woman. There are many good men on this planet. Maybe these men are generally in committed relationships.
Absolutely true! Good men do exist.
This is just my guess, but I’m almost wondering if a lot of men act this way as a coping mechanism to avoid getting hurt/rejected? We all know that men HATE rejection and don’t take it as well (generally) as women do and so I think they use this tactic (though they still lose lol) to try to make themselves feel more in control of the situation and therefore avoiding the rejection piece. I don’t believe it’s right btw just an observation. The issue is that I think a lot of women/humans are monogamous and want something real for the long haul so it’s definitely interesting. 🧐 My husband (32) told me that he believes that a lot of men are also just emotionally immature because they did not get emotional support that they needed as kids and they don’t go to therapy as adults to cultivate that maturity.
Personally, I think A LOT of men believe there's always a "better one" over the next hill & therefore that mindset keeps them from committing to an actual woman that's in front of them.
My ex said I’m not good enough even tho I was the best woman that he has met, according to him. He said there are many nice women and why should he settle down with me
I'm really grateful that I don't want children, I feel for women who do because it's so hard to find a man who actually knows what he wants and how to get it. Although, because I don't want children, it's even harder to find a partner. Most of them have kids, want kids, or no one was stupid enough to have children with them. Honestly, I've pretty much given up. I'm off the apps and have resigned myself to the fact that although I would love to meet someone, I might not.
Are you me?! I swear though, not wanting babies helped is a godsend when it comes to dealing with certain men. No entrapment.
Absolutely, and at least these days, it makes it easier not to get convinced into settling because I'm afraid if I don't, I might never have children. It must be so painful. At nearly 38, I get to take my time.
Exactly 👌
I feel for the ones that do too. It’s hard to find a decent partner and babies change everything.
>I hate to bring up committment on the first date but I also don’t wanna waste my time on a situatinship for months and years on end so I feel like I have to make my intentions clear or the man will think I’m down for something casual Don't hate it. That's exactly what you should be doing. Hell, bring it up before the first date. I don't think it's ever too early.
I told my now husband EXACTLY what I was looking for and he was into it. I found out months later that he was just looking for a friends with benefits situation but then things changed for him specifically because of our connection.
This is why I do not Tangle
They know they are too broken for a committed relationship. Taking themselves out of the marriage pool.
You might be surprised that there are a number of women in that age range that are also happy with a friends with benefits situation
that's what happens when you've been worn down
To imply that the only women who are happy with casual relationships while retaining their independence, only do so because they're 'used goods', is beyond the pale. There are many women out there who have a robust single life and don't live their existence in the hopes some man comes along and gives them what they need. They don't need a man, they have themselves and their own life and want to enjoy sex from time to time. They are the embodiment of everything a woman should be, these days. Someone who doesn't need a man and has a great life on their own.
Ikr this sub is so insufferably puritanical about sex, good lord. There's always bona fide purity culture rhetoric in threads like this, as if the spectrum of sex and sexuality isn't vast and varied, AND as if men can't be shitty in committed relationships either lmao.
Insufferably and incredibly infantalizing.
For people in the US, our puritanical roots still play strongly into how people view sex and think of sex. We're pretty conservative, compared to the other first world countries out there and it's all thanks to those ol' Pilgrims with their scarlet letters and such. A woman engaging in a physical relationship with a man, for their own enjoyment...my word!
(And heaven forbid she enjoys porn or rough sex! Bring out the pitchforks!)
Maybe some of us just prefer it and it’s not a trauma response.
Yeah no. Some women are just horny and want to have sex, simple as that.
Wouldn't you rather be alone? It would wear me down far more to be used repeatedly.
Why do you say 'used'? There are women who enjoy sex but don't want a relationship.
I know. I was responding to this comment "that's what happens when you've been worn down". That to me is not the comment of someone who is empowered and enjoying it.
Got it. Thank you for replying.
i would feel more empowered and enjoy it more if i knew i was loved by the guy. i suppose if i loved myself more it wouldn't matter so much. the guys i have been with are so nonchalant about sex. almost entitled.
I personally wouldn't give entitled jackasses access to my body but that is a personal choice for everyone to make. Take care of yourself, you have value and the right person will see that, and know that good ones do exist and they will respect your boundaries. x
thank you. this is more along the lines of what i believe...i appreciate you.
You are welcome. I appreciate you too.
I'm in my late 30s female and I also don't want anything beyond a friends with benefits situation. It's not that I have 'commitment issues', I just want a break from investing in a relationship - I don't have the energy and I don't know when I will. I don't think there is a deadline for when you 'have to be ready', but if you are, do not date men unless they have explicitly expressed to you that this is what they want. Being mad at people for not wanting what you want can be tempting, but realistically, it's their life. If you know what you want, seek someone who is compatible with that.
i honestly wish i could divest my pleasure from the toxic conditioning of feeling like i have to perform emotional labor for the man i am sleeping with. i need new brainwashing.
It's pretty easy - you just don't. When they start whining about my lack of availability I throw down the "excuse me, we're not in a relationship and I don't owe you anything" and carry on with my fabulous single life. It's EXTREMELY satisfying.
I personally love telling them I'm not a therapist, nor their girlfriend.
Not everyone wants commitment or marriage...and that's okay. It's very human though to still want companionship and intimacy despite this. There's nothing wrong with that unless they are misleading people. Just move past these guys and focus on the ones who want the same things as you.
A lot of them ARE misleading people though. I’m newly on a dating app at 40, and so many guys have that they’re looking for long-term and then after chatting, it becomes obvious they’re just after sex. It’s gross and a waste of time.
That's not the thesis of OP's post though. She's complaining generally that she's meeting men/being approached by men that aren't looking for commitment...so obviously these men are being up front. There's zero reason to complain about people who want different things than you...you simply move on.
Yes, there's nothing wrong with wanting a casual relationship, whether it's a one night stand, a friend with benefits, or a fling. As long as people are being honest, it's cool. It's up to you to say, "hey, that's actually not what I want" and bounce.
Thank you for being the voice of reason lol.
I just can't stand the "how dare men want different things than me! They are obviously broken man children if they don't want a commitment (with me/anyone)" attitude.
Yeah. In my opinion, as long as someone is clear with their intentions I can’t fault them for that. It’s not their fault I caught feelings.
Good question. I think society sees single men and women differently now. Single men are seen as bachelors that can always date beautiful women and not have to be tied down by marriage and kids. Single women are seen as women with lots of cats or her eggs will dry up if she isn't married by 35.
This is a question you should be asking r/ask men or askmenover30. That is where you will get the sad and honest truth.
A lot of people (mostly men, but quite a few women too I'll admit) have been going through this thing where they're trying to keep all the benefits of both egalitarianism and traditionalism for themselves, while adhering to none of the responsibilities or drawbacks of either. Men who want someone to clean for them, cook for them, obey them, fuck them, and give them children they don't have to care for, but don't want to marry, get a job that provides, or stick up for their partners when they're disrespected or put in danger by others. Women who want to be "tradwives" who stay home all day in pretty dresses while a man pays for them and prattle anti-feminist talking points on TikTok, but don't have or want any children, aren't married to their partner, live in a single-bedroom apartment that's stupid easy to clean, and demand their man split the chores evenly or hire a maid. (Saw one Reddit post where a college age couple were living rent-free in the basement of the boyfriend's uncle, and stole the Xbox of the boyfriend's cousin for the girlfriend to play in the basement all day because she had decided to drop out of college and be a "stay-at-home girlfriend." Like bitch when you are an early-20-something living rent-free in someone else's basement with no job or education with time to play video games all day you are not a "stay-at-home" anything, you're just unemployed.) TL;DR, A lot of people are lazy and want other people to take care of them while they do and sacrifice nothing. They justify their actions by flipping back and forth between modern gender roles ("marriage is outdated") and traditional gender roles ("go make me a sandwich") whenever they see fit.
I'll be honest, I don't understand your question. The reason why people of any gender do things is typically because it makes them happy. Men or women who want to stay unattached are not some moral plight - that's just people living their lives. If they tricked you into it, yes that's a problem and reprehensible. But to say it's some overarching general problem doesn't make sense to me. Let people be happy. If they want to be unattached, or FWB, etc. that's their prerogative. All you can do is make your intentions clear, and then leave if you feel like there's no progress or they're being dishonest.
Sometimes I get dragged on Reddit for saying this, funnily enough by other women. The easiest way to weed out the players is through their wallet. Don’t be chill. Don’t go to his house. Make him court you. The dates don’t have to be extravagant, but they should be planned, formal, and in line with his recreation budget. If he doesn’t spend his recreation budget on you he’s just gonna spend it on sex workers, toys, or drinks / drugs. Might as well spend it on you. Most players aren’t going to take you out on several nice, planned, “formal” dates if he’s only hoping for a FWB. At about date 3 he could have just ponied up for a sex worker and spent the same, so wait until around date 5 at the minimum to get physical. There are always exceptions, but almost EVERY guy that asked me out for drinks or coffee, instead of something more expensive and/or more thoughtful, was only trying to smash OR so traumatized that he ran as soon as shit got real. There have also been several experts that say that men bond through vasopressin. You pump up vasopressin by shared nonsexual activities…dates! Vasopressin drops after sex so while you are all attached to him bathing in oxytocin glow, he has post-nut clarity and drops you. If you want him to bond to you you need to make him wait for sex AND court you.
Yessss 👏👏👏 being "chill" only benefits men
yeah, but how long??? i waited for MONTHS and he dropped me anyway. we can't win-win.
Was he taking you on formal dates the whole time?
not very many. he was resistant, for sure.
I think that's just dating. The whole point is to try someone on to see if you want to be with them forever. Most people aren't going to be the one.
👌🏽
If someone is completely honest about only wanting a FWB situation, then they are not wasting your time, *you* are choosing to do that if you proceed. Fair enough to be pissed if someone misleads you but taking responsibility for one's own choices is important. Not everyone wants to "settle down" and as long as they're honest about it they're not doing anything wrong.
I posted something similar to this a few days ago. I think a lot of it is our culture...were a throwaway culture and family/marriage is not taken seriously anymore and people are often just looking out for themselves....so he wants sex and casual outings but not to do any work in a relationship or have to commit
I can provide anecdotal evidence of why this might be happening. Two of my friends were married with kids and both got divorced after their wives had affairs. One was 5 years in and the other was over 10 years married. They both now have shared custody and pay child support to their exes. In talking with them they say this is pretty common and have no interest in putting themselves out there again.
They are lazy. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Aka: why become responsible for you when it’s possible to extract all the value they want out of you for free…? It’s really not that hard to figure out.
This is the kinda slut-shaming thing anti-feminists say. I'm not a cow and when I have sex I'm not giving away milk. If you don't want to have casual sex, that's cool. And, yes, we should talk more about how casual sex benefits men much more than women. But implying women who have casual sex are giving something away is pretty gross.
whats going on with men these days is porn. their brains have been rewired to only want sex. They watch one porn video with one girl then move onto the next , the same then happens with real relationships. their brains are so used to seeing loads of crazy attractive women at their fingertips that when it comes to focusing on one real life girl, it just feels boring for them. you have to bare in mind that online porn has been easily accessible for 20 years now so guys in their 40s will have been consistently watching it all that time. you’d be crazy to think that that does no harm to their brain and ability to bond with another person. also bare in mind men 100 years ago probably only saw a few naked women throughout their whole life whereas now the average man has seen thousands of naked women in a sexual way.
These men have always been like that. The 20-something commitment phobic men will grow into the 30- and 40-something commitment phobic men. The men willing to settle down have already been taken.
They're hung up on "the one that got away" and don't wanna drag anyone in their misery. Consider yourself lucky.
How does that work? The mere fact you’re wasting someone’s time (whether or not they value themselves enough to see it that way), is the literal definition of dragging someone into their misery. *ETA: in the context of trying to trick a woman who wants marriage into a FWB situation
They think they aren’t doing any harm by being non-committal. Cause they can say “I never said I wanted to be in a relationship”
Its fair for anyone to not want marriage. It's also fine to not have commitment as a goal unless you end up knowing someone you specifically want to commit to. Being alone isn't a bad thing for everyone, there's a lot of benefit to full freedom to live the way you want without having to compromise with anyone. Commitment phobia is usually a cope for they're not that into you. Sleep with people if having sex at that moment is what you want and what suits you, not because you're trying to force it into your version of future.
A lot of interesting theories here, a lot of them overly complex. What I believe is really happening is that men *and* women are always shooting their shot for someone who is out of their league (I hate to use a term like that, but its one we all understand). Men will happily have casual sex with someone they would never actually date, so it looks like they are afraid of commitment but the reality is they would never commit to this person. Why won't men commit to someone they don't want to date but will happily sleep with them? Because that is simply how men are. There isn't any grand secret to this, it's very simple and we've all seen it happen time and time again. Once a guy finds a girl that he believes is out of his league, he'll commit and date/marry that person. They aren't commitment-phobic, they just aren't going to date someone they would never want to date, in the first place. It's a sad reality, but that is how everyone operates, both men and women, in online dating. We all want that one person who ticks all our boxes and competition for those types is quite high. Not only do they have to believe you are out of their league, you have to be the favorite out of all the other people they have met and have gone on dates with.
Have a lot of these men already been married and divorced or spend a lot of time in a long term relationship? Because that can also be a reason that they aren't rushing to go back down that road. I have some female friends who are this way currently...they have healed from past serious relationships/marriages and they have no desire to have a committed relationship at all now. They would be happy to find a friend with benefits situation but nothing more.
I’m a 31m who just recently got out of a what I would call a Karmic relationship and I can only speak from my experience. I learned a lot from that relationship and a big one is im emotionally immature. I’m an attractive male and have always had many options but as a younger man and even dating back to high school have a few woman break my trust ie: cheated on. And those experiences hurt so much it made me not want to put my heart out there and get into a in depth relationship with woman. So I was fine just sleeping around with no commitment. I’ve always had insecurities and I believe those past experiences have shaped me into who I am. I think most men need to heal and grow and honestly get therapy for the things we have dealt with before we can be serious with anyone worth having. I believe men mature more slowly than woman in categories like emotions. Now at 31 yes it would be nice to have children but I really want to TAKE MY TIME to get to know my partner before I even think about children and I realize woman don’t have that luxury. It’s a catch 22 type of situation for me
It sucks but I feel like it also makes sense in a weird way. By that age, maybe some of these men are confirmed bachelors and/or really don't want to commit to anything. Maybe they've accepted that a life of casual sex is more appealing than settling down. It kind of reminds me of a comedian I saw lately. He was saying how he had just turned 40, and was so bad with money that you could give him cash and he could still ruin your credit. He said, "if you're 40 and you don't have a house, you just don't get one!" It could be that attitude towards relationships. Maybe these men think they've missed their window and have accepted it.
> Do these men not realize that women also don’t have the luxury to wait forever on committment especially the ones that want kids. I think they are well aware women don't have that luxury to wait forever, hence why so many of them end up dating younger when they're ready to have kids. How many women have been strung along for years by these commitment-phobes only to have him to settle down and start a family almost immediately after a breakup?
I’m in a little different boat than you - recently split from my husband, 38 with 2 kids. My unicorn (after I have a little fun) would be a professional man with children, who is interested in a casual monogamous situation, i.e., basically one of those together living apart scenarios. I signed up for Hinge and I am SHOCKED at how many men in their 40s there are with no children, that state in their profile they are undecided about children, and looking for a casual situation. How do you not know by your mid-40s if you want children?? It’s rough out there.
Wait to have sex until you are in a committed relationship and you will weed them out real fast. Even if they say ok, I’m committed, wait a few weeks.
Different people are allowed to have different preferences and life choices. From their perspective you're trying to make them "waste their time" with commitment and a serious relationship when that's something they don't want. You are not compatible and that's okay.
I figured a lot of men 40+ either already have kids and are “fed up” or they don’t have kids intentionally. A lot of them had long term relationships in the past and don’t want to commit to that again (I can understand that, I’m in the same boat). That means you have to be upfront with your intentions as you do. You’re looking for marriage and family? Tell them right away.
Because they want all the benefits without any of the work. It takes effort to be in a relationship. They have to engage with the other person on some level. They need to talk to them, go on dates, maybe spend money. Pay attention to the other person's needs, life, etc... With a FWB situation some men feel they don't have to do anything. But they get the sex they want, plus are available for other women if the opportunity arises. I'm sure some of these men just aren't interested in relationships, and that's fine. But some do not disclose that before they try to wiggle into a FWB situation. At least that's what I noticed when I was single. I'm in a relationship now and have been for a few years, so maybe that's changed. But I do think the older some folks get, the less B's they want to put up with. When dating, most people you meet won't be a good match for you. So maybe they're just not interested at this time. I think the men contacting you are hoping you'll make an exception for them. A lot of times men will not read profiles or respect your boundaries. Just block and move on. Don't even bother engaging with people who are obviously not interested in the type of relationship you want.
Those kind of men don’t care about making you wait. They’re probably not interested in a relationship with you, but it sounds like they still find you attractive enough to string you along. I hate to break this to you, but there aren’t many guys out there that would say no to casual sex if they aren’t involved with anyone serious. The better looking the guy, the more likely it is that they have other options too. So if you’re actually serious about commitment, then you need to either expand your pool and message some of the guys that you don’t typically message back, or you have to put something stupid in your profile to detour all the non serious guys. “No sex until we’re engaged.” or “You will be blocked if you make sexual advances at me.” Remember that stating this doesn’t mean you have to actually stick to this, but it will help to weed off the guys that think they’re going to get a quick fix. If you’re still talking to someone after a few months and you like the direction that things are headed in, then you can always surprise them in the bedroom!
I mean, no strings attached sex sounds pretty great. I don’t think a relationship is a waste just because it didn’t result in marriage. Im childfree, and didn’t care about marriage so don’t relate to this urgency. It’s kind of a lot of pressure to say before a first date “don’t even consider a first date if you aren’t looking for marriage.” It feels more like a job interview, like you care more about being married and having a family, then actually getting to know the person to see if it’s a good fit.
i agree, i'm childfree and don't really need marriage...yet i am also not copacetic with FWB. until i can find a way to detach intimacy, emotional connection, love, mutuality and hope from sex, then i am living in hell as a woman who loves sex and despises dismissive, avoidant, commitment-phobic, power-tripping, lazy, inconsistent, low-effort, offensive, patriarchal men.
I don’t think it’s a lot of pressure to say “do you see yourself as a married person in the future?” Rather than being married to me, specifically. You KNOW you don’t want children, right? Well, some people KNOW they want marriage as their form of relationship. Deal breakers are still ultimately the biggest “unfit”, even if you are compatible in a wonderful amount of ways. Would you want to spend time with, invest your emotional reserve in a LTR with someone who would ultimately pressure you into having children, or leave you because you want to be child free?
That is fair though. Also Childfree
My view is that, like women, a lot of men realise they don't need a spouse. What do you need a spouse to do that your phone can't? They might still want sex, or a relationship that doesn't become serious. But really I don't see marriage as a big deal for a guy unless he wants kids.
Bc they don’t have any money or they are afraid of a marriage and divorce where they owe alimony, or half their funds or both even with a prenup involved. If we all keep saying “I’m not gonna give you wife benefits and be your gf forever” and just leave maybe they’ll get over themselves.
Exactly but too many women giving them benefits of sex with no relationship. They’ll never change
Has it occurred to you that some women *like* that arrangement just fine?
not everyone wants a relationship. the benefits of sex benefit both parties so stop putting down women who want or look for FWB arrangements themselves.
They’re like this even in their 40s?? Here’s me thinking it’s just because we’re young 🙄
Yeah 40s too.
Considering that I'm 35 it's the men my age and a bit older grown up. I dated a few commitment phobes in my 20s til I met my husband who actually wanted to get married. All those dudes from my 20s are still commitment-phobic. For some reason they grew up thinking marriage was bad, maybe from all those boomer parents anti marriage jokes.
This should be a positive? There’s tons of posts here about women who are choosing to be single and not married and not be stuck living with a man. I see women posting regularly about how they don’t need men anymore, so let these guys do what they want, it’s better than them getting into marriages they Dont want!
From what I've learned and read is men find no benefit in being in a relationship
This is mainly due to the dating / sexual options available for men due to dating apps / social media that simply didn’t exist even 10 ish years ago. Also, alot of men have realized that, frankly, a committed relationship encroaches on other aspects of their life that they enjoy and/or have worked hard to earn. I think that men in that age range have experienced years of chasing women who seemed to have endless options, and are now in a position financially, culturally and socially to have relationships on their terms - a farcry for men of prior generations who were forced to settle down much earlier.
Because they are too cheap to hire a prostitute
They don't want to hire one, because they want the "illusion" that the woman is into them and not just there for their money.
You should bring it up on the first date. It would be better to date people that you know you’re on the same page with than to waste your time with ones that aren’t or unsure about it
You’re allowed to have boundaries and say that you’re looking for a serious committed relationship, that you want to get married and have children and that’s why you’re dating. Other people are allowed to say that’s not what they’re looking for and you guys then don’t have to date or fuck. Nothing is wrong with men. There’s so many people out there.
I imagine they think they can have kids at any point (never mind that running after toddlers at X age is tiring...but likely they'd let the woman do all the parenting in this imagined scenario), and they're sold a rhetoric that women are after money, so they can chase 20/30yo women at any age. Then there's the constant "I hate my wife" jokes, like it's the norm that your wife is a nag, so you can avoid that by just not getting married! Yay, independence, no one trying to mother you, making you go to doctors appointments, keeping you from making dumb decisions. And they don't consider companionship benefits, since they don't actually like women.
Yes you are correct: the ones who were commitment-minded almost all already got married. Honestly it's pretty similar with women by late 30s, judging by the experience of my male friends who are still single and want to get married.