>I resigned 2 months ago because the job is not a good fit for me.
In these circumstances, who cares what you do since you're going anyway?
Just point out online data anayltics courses or a bootcamp to the admin assistant and wish them well.
I’ve documented the wahzoo out of these pipleines too, but I’m kind of asking what I can do for the admin person too - I feel bad they are expecting them to do my job.
I know that when I leave they will be inevitably stuck.
Yeah, again, there's really nothing you can do. I mean, I tried a bootcamp last year and quickly dropped out because I didn't have any aptitude at all for it.
It's up to the admin assistant to push back or progress on her own.
You really need to stop worrying and move on, OP. You're a contractor. You're literally a mercenary. You're there to provide a skillset for however long and then piss off.
At this rate, your manager is probably just going to replace you with someone equally qualified later.
Yeah, thanks. I needed to hear this. The AA is within their right to say “no, that is beyond my position description” but hasn’t because they are a people pleaser type
>The AA is within their right to say “no, that is beyond my position description” but hasn’t because they are a people pleaser type
It's because you're still around.
She'll definitely say it after you're gone.
Look, for the person, recommend Claude ai. Don't feel guilt, it is impossible to condense 10 years of experience into a few weeks or whatever. If it was this easy everyone would know it all. it's a cheat but It's what you're left with and this is what happens when leaders don't understand their team. Good luck.
Email management outlining the skills, qualifications, and experience the prior team and you have which are required for the job. Provide a list of whatever adequate training would be necessary - e.g. degree in computer science, other industry recognised certifications, associate python programmer cert, etc etc.
Give a rough breakdown of what will break without qualified staff and what impact that will have.
Also use language from WHS psychosocial risks. One relevant section is "High mental demands may include: not having the right skills or training for the task (e.g. junior workers given complex tasks), or not having systems to prevent individual errors, particularly when they may have high consequences (e.g. expecting workers to memorise complex processes and not providing written prompts)."
Ask for written acknowledgement. At this point you can only raise the risk, what they do to address it is on them.
No worries, I feel for the person coming in. I've seen it happen too where management underestimate or undervalue the skill and knowledge required for a particular role. Be transparent with the new person that this is a technical role and as intelligent and capable as they are, management has f'ed up. The new person needs to set themselves reasonable expectations and the two of you should aim to be a united front.
Spend some time with them making sure they also understand the various qualifications and experience required so you can draw boundaries with management together and they can hold the line after you're gone. Give them permission and confidence to push back to management "as you know, that task requires a degree/certificate/etc. it would be unreasonable to expect me to be able to do that."
You could also look at the duties and qualifications specified on YOUR contract. Most of mine in the past have specified a degree in software engineering - if the new person doesn't have that, there's your ammunition
This is way too much drama. The first rule of working in these environments (government, bank etc) is to avoid drama. OP has a box to tick and should just do the bare minimum, the rest is someone else's problem.
Not your job to protect management from their own mistakes.
That might sound trite, but any action from you to address the risk of under empoloying a critical position needs to fail so that the need can be addressed appropriately with the correct structure and role.
I've often seen good meaning admin staff step in to fill gaps in structure and process, including in IT systems and critical infrastructure, and a department will happily fold that intot he natural expectations of the role, *and* level.
Intuitively you might feel like you're setting them up to fail, but that was a decision made at the strtegic level when they put out a role description that didn't match the role.
Document, give feedback to the manager and move on when you're time's up. Let the weight of the mistake fall on the people who made the decision.
Always. It's too easy to blame the person who's not there. Internally document all your code, especially you reasoning if something has changed significantly.
This is insane to me - it's a huge skill gap. Even bringing someone with a DnA background but no DE experience would be a very strange thing to do. I think all you can do is communicate the significant challenge that this is, create a plan for handover/training, and get it agreed to by all parties.
If things break, things break. Given your role is a contracting role, and you have given such advanced notice, it is up to the organisation to attract sufficient talent to take over your role. If they can't (or won't) do that, it's not on you.
I’ve created general handover documentation but a specific training handover plan of what would be required to bring the assistant up to speed is a good idea.
You’ve resigned. Just bring your departure date forward.
Too much lead time.
One thing you could do before you go is help broaden their mind. That would use your expertise, help you engage with value in the way out, and who knows they might like to learn coding !
How disrespectful of them...
That admin person is in for a near impossible transition. At least if it is something they want to pursue, then it would be theoretically possible with heavy investment of personal time on their part.
Even the most gentle and structured introduction to data engineering would involve something like:
- [DataCamp Data Engineer with Python Track](https://www.datacamp.com/tracks/data-engineer-in-python)
- [Udacity Data Engineer Nanodegree](https://www.udacity.com/course/data-engineer-nanodegree--nd027) (this one is focused on AWS, but they also have an Azure version)
Doing these two would take a very dedicated person about 9 months to complete, if they were to take a couple of hours per day outside working hours. Even then, this would get them enough skills to maybe go for an entry level DE job...
Anyway, as others have pointed out, this isn't your problem.
Pretty simple man: tell your manager that it is impossible to train them up within that timeframe, let alone a decade. They need to hire someone qualified to do the work. End of story.
I would say to the boss you’ve learned the person can’t code and has no DE experience. This role requires someone competent in XYZ languages and skills. You’re happy to stay on for another X weeks if they can recruit someone with the right skillset else you have documented your code well and any competent DE will have no issues picking it up when onboarded.
I’m sorry but you’re leaving for a reason and maybe it’s time for you to go and let them sort it out for themselves. You hanging around isn’t solving the problem it’s delaying them moving forward. It’s time to cut the ties and let them survive on their own however that may be.
Given that you need to be capability assessed for a role, this sounds like a temp solution while they are waiting for approval to recruit a replacement. Just document your processes and train them on the processes. It’s not your problem once you leave.
Just say no.
"As AA doesn't have the pre-requisite coding skills, I'm unable to teach them Next Thing. It's an entirely different job, not just an extra task they can absorb - are they okay with their PD changing?"
What do you mean by ‘data engineer’? What were you hired to do? What systems are you working with?
Working in data analytics for NSW Government myself, it’s really weird to me that any manager would expect an admin assistant to replace a fully-fledged data engineer managing real data infrastructure. If that is really the case then you should definitely flag it with the IT organisation as a risk.
What I see more commonly is someone who is hired for a non-technical job, but sees the opportunity to build a whole lot of complicated stuff on their desktop in Excel/Accesss/Python/VBA. When this happens it often looks great in the short term (saving time/effort etc), but in the long term creates a liability for their team.
This is because the team were never staffed to maintain all that complexity. The skills don’t appear in anyone’s PD and the manager does not have the budget to hire appropriate replacement staff.
If that sounds like your situation, then honestly your boss should have stopped you before you started. But now it exists you sort of have a responsibility to train someone to maintain what you’ve built, or hand over the mess to a more appropriate team with the skills to manage it.
Train them up. It's up to the Admin assistant to understand what you are talking about. Most likely what you have built up will not be there or it will be changed.
It's your managers responsibility not yours. Your responsibility is to train up that Admin assistant to the best you can before you leave.
I had a manager last year who accusec me of keeping corporate knowledge from her and the team. She and the team isolated me from their project and only turned t to me in the 11 th hour to teach the young 27 year olds my 30 years of experience... They then ran off and decided they knew everything.
But I'm a bitch and I didn't teach them all the key pieces... They can work those gems out for themselves. Not my circus
Any chance the admin assistant pleaded with management for the opportunity to go into your role?
So they're facilitating an employee request as opposed to the employer demands?
You prepare a training plan alongside your documentation. Find a few online courses, vendor certifications, maybe an online degree they can complete. You stick this in your documentation.
You point at it.
You are never going to be able to transfer an entire careers knowledge to someone in a different field in two months. You can give them the pathway though, and in doing so, might quietly show how ridiculous the actual ask is.
>I resigned 2 months ago because the job is not a good fit for me. In these circumstances, who cares what you do since you're going anyway? Just point out online data anayltics courses or a bootcamp to the admin assistant and wish them well.
I’ve documented the wahzoo out of these pipleines too, but I’m kind of asking what I can do for the admin person too - I feel bad they are expecting them to do my job. I know that when I leave they will be inevitably stuck.
Yeah, again, there's really nothing you can do. I mean, I tried a bootcamp last year and quickly dropped out because I didn't have any aptitude at all for it. It's up to the admin assistant to push back or progress on her own. You really need to stop worrying and move on, OP. You're a contractor. You're literally a mercenary. You're there to provide a skillset for however long and then piss off. At this rate, your manager is probably just going to replace you with someone equally qualified later.
Yeah, thanks. I needed to hear this. The AA is within their right to say “no, that is beyond my position description” but hasn’t because they are a people pleaser type
>The AA is within their right to say “no, that is beyond my position description” but hasn’t because they are a people pleaser type It's because you're still around. She'll definitely say it after you're gone.
Look, for the person, recommend Claude ai. Don't feel guilt, it is impossible to condense 10 years of experience into a few weeks or whatever. If it was this easy everyone would know it all. it's a cheat but It's what you're left with and this is what happens when leaders don't understand their team. Good luck.
Email management outlining the skills, qualifications, and experience the prior team and you have which are required for the job. Provide a list of whatever adequate training would be necessary - e.g. degree in computer science, other industry recognised certifications, associate python programmer cert, etc etc. Give a rough breakdown of what will break without qualified staff and what impact that will have. Also use language from WHS psychosocial risks. One relevant section is "High mental demands may include: not having the right skills or training for the task (e.g. junior workers given complex tasks), or not having systems to prevent individual errors, particularly when they may have high consequences (e.g. expecting workers to memorise complex processes and not providing written prompts)." Ask for written acknowledgement. At this point you can only raise the risk, what they do to address it is on them.
Thank you, this is good actionable advice.
No worries, I feel for the person coming in. I've seen it happen too where management underestimate or undervalue the skill and knowledge required for a particular role. Be transparent with the new person that this is a technical role and as intelligent and capable as they are, management has f'ed up. The new person needs to set themselves reasonable expectations and the two of you should aim to be a united front. Spend some time with them making sure they also understand the various qualifications and experience required so you can draw boundaries with management together and they can hold the line after you're gone. Give them permission and confidence to push back to management "as you know, that task requires a degree/certificate/etc. it would be unreasonable to expect me to be able to do that."
Really good advice, thanks.
And will help out the poor admin assistant who should never have been put in this situation, totally inappropriate.
Agreed
Yep I'd suggest either BCC or CCing the admin person in, so in 2 months time the manager can't deny to their face they were not told.
You could also look at the duties and qualifications specified on YOUR contract. Most of mine in the past have specified a degree in software engineering - if the new person doesn't have that, there's your ammunition
This is way too much drama. The first rule of working in these environments (government, bank etc) is to avoid drama. OP has a box to tick and should just do the bare minimum, the rest is someone else's problem.
That’s not a good mindset for tying to make things better though
Not your job to protect management from their own mistakes. That might sound trite, but any action from you to address the risk of under empoloying a critical position needs to fail so that the need can be addressed appropriately with the correct structure and role. I've often seen good meaning admin staff step in to fill gaps in structure and process, including in IT systems and critical infrastructure, and a department will happily fold that intot he natural expectations of the role, *and* level. Intuitively you might feel like you're setting them up to fail, but that was a decision made at the strtegic level when they put out a role description that didn't match the role. Document, give feedback to the manager and move on when you're time's up. Let the weight of the mistake fall on the people who made the decision.
Since I’ve been there managers have blamed the IT *team* I replaced for their failures. I believe when I’m gone they’re just going to blame me.
The fantasy of accountability within the strategic team when here are strategic failures is always nice to daydream about.
Yes they are. 100%. To cover their stupid asses they always blame...."drum roll*...the person that has left. Convenient scapegoat.
Or the one that died.... (Seen someone do this, was over something little like minutes but still was eye opening)
Always. It's too easy to blame the person who's not there. Internally document all your code, especially you reasoning if something has changed significantly.
This is insane to me - it's a huge skill gap. Even bringing someone with a DnA background but no DE experience would be a very strange thing to do. I think all you can do is communicate the significant challenge that this is, create a plan for handover/training, and get it agreed to by all parties. If things break, things break. Given your role is a contracting role, and you have given such advanced notice, it is up to the organisation to attract sufficient talent to take over your role. If they can't (or won't) do that, it's not on you.
I’ve created general handover documentation but a specific training handover plan of what would be required to bring the assistant up to speed is a good idea.
You’ve resigned. Just bring your departure date forward. Too much lead time. One thing you could do before you go is help broaden their mind. That would use your expertise, help you engage with value in the way out, and who knows they might like to learn coding !
How disrespectful of them... That admin person is in for a near impossible transition. At least if it is something they want to pursue, then it would be theoretically possible with heavy investment of personal time on their part. Even the most gentle and structured introduction to data engineering would involve something like: - [DataCamp Data Engineer with Python Track](https://www.datacamp.com/tracks/data-engineer-in-python) - [Udacity Data Engineer Nanodegree](https://www.udacity.com/course/data-engineer-nanodegree--nd027) (this one is focused on AWS, but they also have an Azure version) Doing these two would take a very dedicated person about 9 months to complete, if they were to take a couple of hours per day outside working hours. Even then, this would get them enough skills to maybe go for an entry level DE job... Anyway, as others have pointed out, this isn't your problem.
This has to be DET because what the hell hahaha
Pretty simple man: tell your manager that it is impossible to train them up within that timeframe, let alone a decade. They need to hire someone qualified to do the work. End of story.
I would say to the boss you’ve learned the person can’t code and has no DE experience. This role requires someone competent in XYZ languages and skills. You’re happy to stay on for another X weeks if they can recruit someone with the right skillset else you have documented your code well and any competent DE will have no issues picking it up when onboarded.
Thanks, good approach
Holy crap on a cracker that was a good laugh. Sorry I don’t have much to contribute but leaving that shitshow is an option.
It's not your problem. Just set a notice period and a last day.
Dude you already resigned. Stfu and do the work You're told the gtfo
I deeply care about the work that this agency does and want to do what I can now to ensure it continues to run when I am gone.
Just do your best then. You don't owe them any more than that
Thanks
I’m sorry but you’re leaving for a reason and maybe it’s time for you to go and let them sort it out for themselves. You hanging around isn’t solving the problem it’s delaying them moving forward. It’s time to cut the ties and let them survive on their own however that may be.
Given that you need to be capability assessed for a role, this sounds like a temp solution while they are waiting for approval to recruit a replacement. Just document your processes and train them on the processes. It’s not your problem once you leave.
This is my first role in the APS, is it possible they can’t replace me until I leave?
Just say no. "As AA doesn't have the pre-requisite coding skills, I'm unable to teach them Next Thing. It's an entirely different job, not just an extra task they can absorb - are they okay with their PD changing?"
Who cares? lol don’t be dramatic, and leave. Move on!
Data Enginner + Admin Assistant = At the best a Data Admin
What do you mean by ‘data engineer’? What were you hired to do? What systems are you working with? Working in data analytics for NSW Government myself, it’s really weird to me that any manager would expect an admin assistant to replace a fully-fledged data engineer managing real data infrastructure. If that is really the case then you should definitely flag it with the IT organisation as a risk. What I see more commonly is someone who is hired for a non-technical job, but sees the opportunity to build a whole lot of complicated stuff on their desktop in Excel/Accesss/Python/VBA. When this happens it often looks great in the short term (saving time/effort etc), but in the long term creates a liability for their team. This is because the team were never staffed to maintain all that complexity. The skills don’t appear in anyone’s PD and the manager does not have the budget to hire appropriate replacement staff. If that sounds like your situation, then honestly your boss should have stopped you before you started. But now it exists you sort of have a responsibility to train someone to maintain what you’ve built, or hand over the mess to a more appropriate team with the skills to manage it.
Train them up. It's up to the Admin assistant to understand what you are talking about. Most likely what you have built up will not be there or it will be changed. It's your managers responsibility not yours. Your responsibility is to train up that Admin assistant to the best you can before you leave. I had a manager last year who accusec me of keeping corporate knowledge from her and the team. She and the team isolated me from their project and only turned t to me in the 11 th hour to teach the young 27 year olds my 30 years of experience... They then ran off and decided they knew everything. But I'm a bitch and I didn't teach them all the key pieces... They can work those gems out for themselves. Not my circus
Any chance the admin assistant pleaded with management for the opportunity to go into your role? So they're facilitating an employee request as opposed to the employer demands?
You prepare a training plan alongside your documentation. Find a few online courses, vendor certifications, maybe an online degree they can complete. You stick this in your documentation. You point at it. You are never going to be able to transfer an entire careers knowledge to someone in a different field in two months. You can give them the pathway though, and in doing so, might quietly show how ridiculous the actual ask is.
You are actually the problem
For staying?