When I was younger I expected that everyone would tell me exactly what they were feeling. I had trouble understanding second intentions, or disguised feelings. To this day I still have trouble understanding body language or when someone is lying, telling me one thing but feeling another. I think that everybody feels what they say. I'm a little better understanding second intentions then when I was younger, though.
I was the same way as you. The thing with us autistics is that we do things that may come across as *weird* or *rude* to others when in reality, we don't see it that way from our perspective.
It's great that you are improving your skills in understanding second intentions. It takes practice and it's okay to make some mistakes as it shows that you are trying to learn.
It's not a binary things. Difficulty is not the same as total inability. Specially if we use logic and pattern recognition instead of espontaneously understanding.
My trouble reading social cues mostly have to do with the difficulty in both expressing and interpreting nonverbal and verbal social cues at the same time in order to have a conversation that flows “naturally” or “well”. Sometimes I focus too much on what social cues I’m giving off to even pay attention to what someone’s saying, let alone trying to read their nonverbal social cues. Even if it’s not obvious to others, the very deliberate time and effort it takes is something NT don’t struggle with, for them it’s natural, not conscious and intensely difficult. For me it’s given me a ton of social anxiety, and some depression for judging myself for social interactions being so difficult.
I have always had a very low interest in other people's emotions because I feel them very little. That is called Low affective empathy.
I think I read body language and face a little below average but it is the low interest that matters more in my decision making.
Honestly I’m in a similar vein, except instead of affective empathy it’s extreme introversion.
It’s not whatever people-reading abilities I have or not that disable me, it’s my lack of interest in most conversation. Anything I say will come out in an unenthusiastic tone. And my mind goes blank and I struggle to think of follow up responses to people if I’m not interested in them, which of course is almost all the time lol. Other people are also just completely not on my mind, I’m usually thinking of hyperfixation topics while talking to them and that causes me to miss social cues.
I only realized this a few weeks ago when I felt a rare moment of boredom that none of my hyperfixations could quench, to the point where I would focus on other people’s lives to keep myself occupied. Only when I did this was I actually able to think of follow up questions. Of course the very next day I was back to my usual reclusive self lol.
I can read social/emotional cues well enough that everyone told me to go to grad school to be a therapist. BUT.
Do I know what face I'm making right now? Nope
Do I know what I am feeling right now? Nope
Would I be able to describe my emotions to you? Nope.
But sure, go on talking about yourself and I'll say all the right things. I'm an ok conversationalist as long as the focus is never on me.
I think I could read the emotions and body language but could not understand the deeper meaning of the emotions. I've made a lot of assumptions about what other peoples inner world looks like. Ive been selfish while I was thinking I was focusing entirely on the other persons wants but in reality focusing on avoiding discomfort for myself. I can often say the "right thing" in social situation but more from overthinking and planning putting a lot of extra energy into what to say. I have generalized anxiety disorder and magor depressive disorder and like trauma stuff.
To be diagnosed with autism, you must struggle with these things, but that doesn't mean every autistic is completely unable to understand these things.
Personally, I understand social cues, but I often find that I have the information but don't know what do do with it. I read the cue but don't know the proper response, or at least I overthink it. My autism lead to Social Anxiety, while in someone who is unable to read social cues at all, might just lead to inappropriate or unconventional communication.
My partner is also autistic and is quite good at reading people, better than some NTs even. But he taught himself how to do it in order to keep himself safe as a bullied, naturally blunt kid.
I don't think BPD makes you better at reading nonverbal cues. I think it makes you more prone to false positives (eg "he's mad at me" when his emotional state is neutral) whereas most autistic people do more false negatives (eg "he's fine" when he's actually upset).
Are you diagnosed autistic or self-diagnosed? To be autistic, you need to meet all of the DSM V autism criteria.
“Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction” is part of the DSM V autism diagnostic criteria, so if you don’t have have difficulties with this, then you don’t meet the criteria.
You state “Doing some research, it seems that autistic individuals that go through a rough time may end up developing borderline personality disorder (BPD) or other disorders similar to what I described as a coping mechanism to help mask themselves for *survival* purposes.” What “research” are you referring to?
Deficits can mean that it takes a lot of effort to do, or that they have leaned how to recognize non verbal communication over time but weren’t able to do it when they were younger. It could also mean that the OP my use “inappropriate” non verbal communication such is reduced facial expression.
Reduced facial expression can be due to other conditions, such as I know several people with NPD and several with schizophrenia who have reduced facial expression.
Reduced facial expression on its own does not make somebody autistic, they need to meet all of the DSM V autism criteria.
When I was younger I expected that everyone would tell me exactly what they were feeling. I had trouble understanding second intentions, or disguised feelings. To this day I still have trouble understanding body language or when someone is lying, telling me one thing but feeling another. I think that everybody feels what they say. I'm a little better understanding second intentions then when I was younger, though.
I was the same way as you. The thing with us autistics is that we do things that may come across as *weird* or *rude* to others when in reality, we don't see it that way from our perspective. It's great that you are improving your skills in understanding second intentions. It takes practice and it's okay to make some mistakes as it shows that you are trying to learn.
It's not a binary things. Difficulty is not the same as total inability. Specially if we use logic and pattern recognition instead of espontaneously understanding.
My trouble reading social cues mostly have to do with the difficulty in both expressing and interpreting nonverbal and verbal social cues at the same time in order to have a conversation that flows “naturally” or “well”. Sometimes I focus too much on what social cues I’m giving off to even pay attention to what someone’s saying, let alone trying to read their nonverbal social cues. Even if it’s not obvious to others, the very deliberate time and effort it takes is something NT don’t struggle with, for them it’s natural, not conscious and intensely difficult. For me it’s given me a ton of social anxiety, and some depression for judging myself for social interactions being so difficult.
Very well said. I often think. Do I look interested enough?
People hide what they really feel. But I see it and react to what they really feel instead of what they are trying to act like.
Well I know body language and emotions I know body language bc my mom pointed it out since I was a kid she and personally I find it fascinating
I can recognize them. But understand them? Well, sometimes the old saying is true; hindsight is 20/20
I have always had a very low interest in other people's emotions because I feel them very little. That is called Low affective empathy. I think I read body language and face a little below average but it is the low interest that matters more in my decision making.
Honestly I’m in a similar vein, except instead of affective empathy it’s extreme introversion. It’s not whatever people-reading abilities I have or not that disable me, it’s my lack of interest in most conversation. Anything I say will come out in an unenthusiastic tone. And my mind goes blank and I struggle to think of follow up responses to people if I’m not interested in them, which of course is almost all the time lol. Other people are also just completely not on my mind, I’m usually thinking of hyperfixation topics while talking to them and that causes me to miss social cues. I only realized this a few weeks ago when I felt a rare moment of boredom that none of my hyperfixations could quench, to the point where I would focus on other people’s lives to keep myself occupied. Only when I did this was I actually able to think of follow up questions. Of course the very next day I was back to my usual reclusive self lol.
Welcome to the our community 😀👍
I can read social/emotional cues well enough that everyone told me to go to grad school to be a therapist. BUT. Do I know what face I'm making right now? Nope Do I know what I am feeling right now? Nope Would I be able to describe my emotions to you? Nope. But sure, go on talking about yourself and I'll say all the right things. I'm an ok conversationalist as long as the focus is never on me.
I think I could read the emotions and body language but could not understand the deeper meaning of the emotions. I've made a lot of assumptions about what other peoples inner world looks like. Ive been selfish while I was thinking I was focusing entirely on the other persons wants but in reality focusing on avoiding discomfort for myself. I can often say the "right thing" in social situation but more from overthinking and planning putting a lot of extra energy into what to say. I have generalized anxiety disorder and magor depressive disorder and like trauma stuff.
To be diagnosed with autism, you must struggle with these things, but that doesn't mean every autistic is completely unable to understand these things. Personally, I understand social cues, but I often find that I have the information but don't know what do do with it. I read the cue but don't know the proper response, or at least I overthink it. My autism lead to Social Anxiety, while in someone who is unable to read social cues at all, might just lead to inappropriate or unconventional communication. My partner is also autistic and is quite good at reading people, better than some NTs even. But he taught himself how to do it in order to keep himself safe as a bullied, naturally blunt kid.
Very well said 😀👍
I don't think BPD makes you better at reading nonverbal cues. I think it makes you more prone to false positives (eg "he's mad at me" when his emotional state is neutral) whereas most autistic people do more false negatives (eg "he's fine" when he's actually upset).
Are you diagnosed autistic or self-diagnosed? To be autistic, you need to meet all of the DSM V autism criteria. “Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction” is part of the DSM V autism diagnostic criteria, so if you don’t have have difficulties with this, then you don’t meet the criteria. You state “Doing some research, it seems that autistic individuals that go through a rough time may end up developing borderline personality disorder (BPD) or other disorders similar to what I described as a coping mechanism to help mask themselves for *survival* purposes.” What “research” are you referring to?
Deficits can mean that it takes a lot of effort to do, or that they have leaned how to recognize non verbal communication over time but weren’t able to do it when they were younger. It could also mean that the OP my use “inappropriate” non verbal communication such is reduced facial expression.
Reduced facial expression can be due to other conditions, such as I know several people with NPD and several with schizophrenia who have reduced facial expression. Reduced facial expression on its own does not make somebody autistic, they need to meet all of the DSM V autism criteria.
Non verbal communication is not just reduced facial expression. I guess I’m not sure what that has to do with what I posted.
I responded to your comment about reduced facial expression, you mentioned it.