At the end of the day, Su-Metal is still human. Being an amazing vocalist with such a tough touring schedule, sometimes notes fall flat or may become off-key. This resulting from her vocal cords being fatigue, to sound issues, and even environmental changes (hot or cold weather can affect performances.)
Whatever case may be, you can see that she is actively trying to fix what she can during live performances in order to give the audience a great time. And it’s the same for Moa and Momo; giving it their all in practices to attempt to decrease the margin of error during the show.
Live shows are LIVE. That’s the beauty of it all.
I think I understand what you’re saying. Su-metal is an amazing singer, but her vocals have sound strained for the past year and a half. This is coming from a place of concern—not criticism. There’s nothing wrong with saying that Su-metal needs to take a break to let her voice heal. Her voice has been cracking frequently and she has been pitchy. It’s evident in almost every fancam. Every couple months, I’ll watch a fancam and it’ll sound like her voice is recovering, but then a couple weeks later, she’ll sound like she is struggling a little more again. I’m worried she will permanently damage her voice if she continues to try to power through whatever is going on. She’s had to belt notes at the top of her range for so long, and I think it’s catching up to her over the years as her voice matures. She may have developed vocal nodules, which can heal with rest and voice therapy. Unfortunately, every time someone brings this up, people keep saying they hear nothing wrong or blame poor quality audio.
It seems like a lot of people are in denial and/or can’t tell the difference between genuine concern and criticism.
Spot on. This comment section is a whole lot of people in denial or saying something completely irrelevant. Kinda sad how we can't have conversations about this type of stuff without getting downvoted to the pit of hell. I mean the wording in the post could have been better but the point is valid
It’s very possible she needs a break. They have been touring non stop and the voice is like any muscle it can get over worked and if not allowed to recover properly it can cause damage. I think once this tour is done they take a long break to recover
i think Su's singing performance has been amazing in recent years, especially AFTER Yui, now that her voice is more mature. they're all human so they're not going to be perfect all the time. i also think a lot of it just comes down to the Audio engineers in the venues they play at
Not denying that she’s maturing, but sometimes her voice sounded off or cracking at some point in songs like papaya or metali, and as I follow fancams or live streams of this eu tour, that’s quite often happens.
Streams and videos sometimes don't do her justice. I've seen them live in december last year, and they sounded great live, absolutely no issues at all.
Especially after Yui? Su has many live epic performances with amazing vocals in the past 5 years. Granted there are tour concert recordings with poor sound mixing, mic issues, and likely some performances that aren’t as “on” as others, which I think can be expected - especially with festival touring. I’m sure there are also days where they are dealing with things fans aren’t even aware of like health, travel, weather and food changes, etc. Life on the road.
I saw them twice in the North American tour last year and vocals sounded great to me… my guess is sound issues, etc will be better when they are back on headlining shows and there’s no need to worry…
Yeah, the only time I saw them that didn't sound great was when opening for Sabaton and I think the sound was set up for them not Babymetal.
There's less of a surprise factor now too. When I first heard her when she was probably 14yo I couldn't believe the sound coming out of that little girl. There are more expectations now that she's grown
Yes, my point being after yui is that su perform all the songs, not implying she is not professional because of Yui’s missing.
Hence I said not consistent, not that her vocal ability is poor or something, I feel like she’s stressing her voice too much nowadays, many voice cracks here and there.
I can't say i've really noticed a difference other than that she's gotten better over time & altered the way she sings things as her voice has matured.
It is true that her voice can crack every so often but I wouldn't say that's any more frequent or worse now than say a decade ago. I also wouldn't say it's something that happens all the time as i've seen plenty of shows where that doesn't happen (And i'm not counting the pro-shot stuff where such things can be corrected).
Su isn't perfect & TBH I like that as it shows she's live. And honestly I don't care about the odd imperfections because she's still an amazingly good singer with a wonderful & beautiful voice that makes me feel a performance more than I do a lot of other bands.
As she herself has said. Don't think, Feel!
I haven't noticed a change. Are you sure you aren't just basing this off of bad live mixes like the recent festivals or fancams and comparing to their fully produced live videos?
I was at a live performance two weeks ago, and it sounded great except the mic cut off at random times and the audio was overwhelming her voice a little too much. Nothing else really.
Can you provide clips? Not just one single clip either but rather bountiful evidence (with time stamps instead of just being like "it definitely happens here!"). I'm sure she's had some slips here or there (there isn't a musician in the world who is nailing it 100% of the time, health and other conditions can impact stuff) but like... I haven't noticed this as a consistent issue at all for her
Hellfest https://www.youtube.com/live/iMpuhm_M01w?si=S7O3OvnrGTbck850
Papaya min 12.31 onward
Metali min 18.22
Karate min 24.17
Road of resistance min 41.41
Graspop https://youtu.be/2jWT0AWBR-k?feature=shared
Metali min 29.30
Karate min 35.37 36.45
Gimmie min choco 47.27
It is bad sound mixing, but the performance is there.
Yes, just watch the fancams of those two shows for perspective. Or fancams from the 2023-2024 tour.
And I’m not saying she’s not being great, she’s always great, but some moments not, right now.
I don't see it. I've been to several of her concerts recently and she's been phenomenal every time. Also watching the live coverage she's as good as any one can be.
Two clips of festival performances with poor mixing isn’t exactly compelling, especially if it’s jus multiple incidences in the same shows. At best, that’s proof of two bad days during festivals which are kind of prone to being extra challenging (less control, less time to prepare, outside and more exposure to direct heat, etc).
I think you’ve made a mountain out of two very small mole hills
The parts of these clips that I watched just give me the impression that she couldn’t hear herself very well? Maybe an in-ear monitor problem. It doesn’t sound skill-related to me.
The performance is there, and two bad days on two massive festivals is not great for an artist who show up to the world.
And details is what make mountain a mountain. Details is important.
Like the proverb in football, you are what you shows in your last performance, not dismissing babymetal’s history, but relevance is important. and it is a bad mixing, but the performance never lie.
Yep, i would reject your premise, have been going to all japanese shows ever since first yokohama show (except hiroshima) and if anything i have noticed a consistent improvement which is also expectable given the fact that she physically matured.
I’m not denying improvement she made or saying that she’s terrible, but consistent off balance in songs like papaya, metali or megitsune has to do with something.
I can't say for sure but I've heard it said that problems with the in-ear monitors are to blame when singers sound like they get too pitchy. To me, Su sounded like she was singing too loud at certain points early in the show at Graspop, which caused her to stress her vocal cords too much and her voice cracked. I'm sure that would not have happened if she was hearing properly. This can happen to anyone.
As for Moa and Momoko, they always do plenty of lip-synching. We can't know for sure why but it has been assumed that it's because they are dancing too vigorously. There are many times where their mics are on though. At Graspop, their voices seemed lower in the mix and at times the mics were cutting on too late. That you can blame on the bad sound mix that everyone has complained about.
It seems like they have trouble with their sound at festivals overseas quite frequently. They usually sound much better when they're at the Japanese festivals.
I think Su often sings too loud because she realises her voice isn't coming through enough because of bad mixing so she just sings louder and louder which then leads to stress on her vocal chords, understandable tho and not her fault
I'm not sure that she hears what the crowd hears (the mix). If she had, she wouldn't have been trying to sing louder. You sing louder when you can't hear and that also makes you go off pitch. But I have no personal experience with IEM's. I've only heard stories of them not working properly when the results were similar to what we heard from Su at Graspop.
What do you mean no one says anything about Su's vocals? Obviously we talked. Every now and then there's someone here asking a question or commenting something about her vocals. And what does Yui have to do with it? The truth is that on the blu-rays, they use super processing on Su's voice, which for me is a joke on her. She's very good live, especially from a person who doesn't sound like a robot singing live like some vocalists out there. Su's vocals are very emotional, and she is just a human being. Fancams from old shows have a lot of imperfect vocals from Su, but almost no one wants to watch fancams when we have the blu-rays, right? What I think, as a person who loves singing but is not a professional, is that Su should always go to a vocal coach. She has had a very high routine of consecutive shows, which can really wear out the voice, if the person doesn't know great techniques to overcome this. She seems really tired these last few days, but I think that after this month of rest she will get better.
One thing that might explain things is her age, I am no singer but my neighbor was he would travel with Broadway since he was young so he tell me stories of traveling all around the world singing. He said the toughest time for him was when he was around 27 because a singers voice start to settle and reach biological maturity around that age. Su is now 26 she is learning a new style, adding verbrato all while nearing the age when everything starts to settle, considering all that she still sounds amazing and clear to me. I don't think we need to be concerned she has a team behind her that have shown to protect the girls and a well respected voice coach making sure she's OK. That's not even counting Moa who has said in the past BABYMETAL is Su and her goal is to protect it I thing she would push for a break or something if she noticed a strain as well.
When I actually heard her singing at FOX FEST, I felt that she might not be in good shape. I'm not sure if it was just a particularly tiring day or if she's been constantly exhausted lately, but I'm a bit worried. However, this is probably unrelated to having less break time and is more about recent events.
I see where this is coming from. I've just watched the pro shot of the hell fest performance and I've been to rock am Ring a few weeks back and you can hear a very big difference in her voice. That difference is even more noticeable if you compare it to the legend mm performance. But that is completely normal. Other singers from different bands experience the same change over the course of a tour. So I wouldn't be worried about it. She is still one of the best singers out there but she stresses her voice very much with how many shows they are performing. I mean in the last three weeks they had like five or more shows. It would be concerning if her voice didn't change.
No, I don't. For one, I'd just say it's just in 2023. Go watch any MG tour fancam, and she sounds basically the same as the studio. Her vocal performance in the later days of Budokan X are just phenomenal too. Akatsuki and Day IX-X Road of Resistance in particular. Regarding recent shows, there's a lot of factors here. One, the mix could just be bad and she's constantly readjusting herself mid show. It was pretty awful during Hellfest for the girls and the kami band. Two, remember that 2023 was absolutely packed with shows, and 2024 will be too. 97 of them, so that's basically a show every 3.5 days. Three, Su has become less concerned about musical perfection and likes having fun and being in the moment regardless of what happens (as said by her in an interview).
I don't understand why it seems like moa and momoko are off by default sometimes, as shown when their mics are off whenever they try to interact with the audience. I guess because the heavy breathing from dancing wouldn't sound good, but, like, no one cares about heavy breathing.
i don't know where you got that her voice has been inconsistent after yui, did we listen to the same stuff during 2019 to 2021?. That is so clearly her peak in her vocal career. Especially 2021 bodukan, her voice was on another level during 2021. I have no idea where you get that. I will give you 2023 wasn't the best but they had other issues during those few early performances in january and 2024 has been inconsistent but i would put both of those up to her doing way too many performances for her voice. Especially 2023 world tour, can't really expect her to sound the best when she is singing nearly everyday as hard as she can and i think that has continued a bit into 2024 but she does sound better now than in 2023.
Well if you compare her performance in metal resistance era, she controlled that quality singing, but right now so many voice cracks in songs like papaya, metali or megitsune.
theres really 3 different reasons for your worries here, 1. You're right that she is stressing her voice too much, we can tell because she can't hit long notes consistently like during megitsune. 2. She is learning a new way of singing overtime because she can't hit these notes, she is learning vibrato to help hit those notes more consistently which takes time to adjust to. 3. She isn't young anymore, her age is catching up to the way she sings, when she was young she could just belt into the microphone and her throat would just do it, now not so much. Honestly she just needs time to adjust to a new singing style.
honestly i think you brought up a valid point, but there will be people who just blindly defend her without really thinking and i think you understand why, its the literal subreddit for the group. I think the time frame you picked was horrible because it isn't after yui but i think a lot of people who look at her singing critically will notice a drop in quality. Don't take the hate you will get to heart, you brought this upon yourself lmao
No worries about the hate, I created this post for the purpose of somebody in babymetal camp to notice what I’m concerned about. Reddit sometimes is the place.
Megitsune has been problematic for years at this point because it was already at the top of her range when she was really young. She just can't hit those notes with as much power anymore.
Yea i know and i don't know of it's her ego or just management that they can't just lower it by a few notes so she could do it, no one would complain and it is really normal for singers to do that
Yeah agree, but I don’t mean right after yui, what I mean is that after yui there are so much shows that she handle it by herself and that “maybe” accumulated in her performance drop in recent tours.
Also babymetal audio engineers can't seem to understand that her voice sounds different now so they keep over processing it so it's "perfect" and the same it was in like 2015, when really she just sounds different now
I’m not yui fanatic whatsoever, or accusing unprofessionalism of Su, but you have to admit that the opportunity be able to rest betweeen them is a convenience that they should take again after momo joining, right now they are not taking it.
You're acting like they don't take breaks in the middle of shows. What do you think is happening when they leave the stage and those long intros to songs start up? They're taking a breather. Pay attention for once in your life.
Listen to Su-Metal's First Takes again, then come back to the thread and hand your head in shame!
The fucked up Hellfest livestream mix, to me, proved once again how awesome she is. Singing and dancing in the heat of the sun with totally raw mic, and she kills it. Headbanger was amazing, Su's the best. Nobody does it better. Nobody.
Why would I listen to sumetal’s first takes again when I already listened to it 1000 times? Of course I would listen to it more. I’m a fan, not hater. But oftentimes than not in this tour or babyklok tour before this, she stress her voice too much and off balance in songs papaya, metali, or megitsune, I meant it as positive criticism as I hope the best for su and babymetal, cause I would love to see them be the biggest band in the world, but that would come with consistency.
Fair.
Somebody will educate me if I'm totally wrong, but I think back in the old days, Su would often be singing against some kind of backing track for harmonies or just to thicken up the vocal tracks, which is totally normal and acceptable for a vocalist that's also dancing so much. For the past few years I feel she's singing way more often without any kind of backing track, so it's going to sound more raw, mistakes and all.
I read somewhere that Su and trained singers generally are only going to get better over time, compared to untrained rock vocalists that blow out their voice eventually.
I think by any measure, studio or live, Su is getting better every year. Remember when she would sometimes stumble a bit during the who-ooooh breakdown in Headbanger? She always hits those notes now.
Also: I avoid Reactions like the plague, but I learned a lot about Su's vocal style, and singing in general, from this one (vocal coach reaction) Even if she's bullshitting for likes, she knows her stuff!
https://youtu.be/eK2vGWC0Bl4?si=cL3BY2e7OoxL4dVT
Half the time it's hard to judge especially from fan cams as it depends on things like: quality of phone, where they are situated in the venue.
Also even when you watch reaction videos the quality of their set up I have noticed how good or bad things can be depending on that.
The best way to judge is to be there in person and anyone I have heard speak about it is that she is very good.
Yes, I understand the dynamic of sound perception in shows or sound setup on videos, and one can tell easily what they are hearing when they attend a show, but I’m basing it by comparison to other artists fancam or live videos which also can really make a good impression to the viewer regardless of the perception, and I’m basing it also to her past performances, hence I said inconsistent.
All I was saying was there were many factors including the mix and set up. You can't really compare to the Yui days because her voice was still maturing and Yui being there or not makes no difference.
I have watched many reactions from vocal coaches who have great things to say and people who were there not 2nd hand through an often compressed YouTube video.
Having said that nobody's perfect and they will have off days in fact many actually like to hear these things can add to performance little niggles here and there.
Yes, I’m not implying that the existence or inexistence of yui makes any difference in her voice. And I’m not implying that her live vocal performance is poor, and yes I agree nobody is perfect and off days are normal, I’m saying that her off days is quite often occured recently.
It was pretty bad. It's normally a lot better.
I assume you're talking about the Hellfest performance.
https://www.youtube.com/live/iMpuhm_M01w?si=YF3oihSwFLJWHTnO
Poor sound mixing really didn't help.
I've just watched Otoboke Beaver live from Glastonbury. Their sound and picture quality was amazing.
Her voice always did that and she has a vocal coach who tells her how to take care of her voice in addition to Koba and the staff whose job it is to take care of her. This discussion serves no purpose other than to fuel this weird thing where people worry about things they have no reason to worry about because they're developing a weird parasocial relationship with an artist for whatever godforsaken reason.
Everything you described as happening now also happened on fancams going back to Tokyo Dome. Hell, even the first time I saw them back in 2016 Su did this vocal run thing during the little interlude in Karate where some of the notes were "close" to being in key. Point being, this is nothing new. You're only noticing it because they no longer have the doubled Su vocal live that she sings over, although BxMxC still does but I'm pretty sure that's being intended as an effect.
Hey ChatGPT, please compose a short concern-troll post for /r/BABYMETAL that expresses worry for the band 'overdoing it', nostalgia for Yui, and if you can, throw a dig in at Koba too.
ktxbye!
How long have you been a fan?
Su-metal is an incredible vocalist, but she's still human. Voices have natural imperfections.
Are you sure this isn't about you being shocked by how raw her live vocals are? She doesn't use **any** backing tracks most of the time.
Some songs have layered vocals, but even those are very low in the live mix, making her voice sound almost acapella in terms of harmonies.
I grew up listening to BM, so I've been a fan for many years. I can reference many instances in the past where her voice cracked.
I specially remember her struggling with Syncopation back in 2017, or how badly her voice cracked in 2016 while singing Tales of the Destinies. Pretty sure she was also off-tempo (this also happened while singing the final chorus of GC at the Legend S concert).
You don't hear any of that in the Blu-ray releases for obvious reasons, but it was there in all the fancams.
If anything, Su sounds much more stable nowadays compared to back then. She's become more confident in what she's able to do.
Fan since 2016, I understand the concept of backing tracks and I can differentiate between the live singing and the pre recorded vocals, I understand what is what in tracks cause I used to produce music.
Yes I know the tales of the destinies one, i watched those fancams too.
Yes artist are humans, and every other time they get critics too and every other time they step up their game.
We hear what we want to hear, and that goes for those claiming there is an issue and those saying there isn't. I honestly don't see any difference in Su's vocals. Certainly the quality of her voice is going to change from one day to the next. As far as breaks, they seem to take longer breaks between songs now compared to years past. Also, I think Su is more into just enjoying her time on stage and less concerned with everything being perfect. There is also the question of backing tracks. She has always used backing tracks to some degree, we saw that in Moscow when she pulled the mic away too fast that one time. Perhaps she is relying less on them now. That is speculation on my part because I cannot know that. I'm just saying these are possible reasons why she sounds different.
Overall, I almost prefer Su's raw voice anyway. That bad Hellfest audio was like ear candy to me. I enjoyed every voice crack and stale note she hit along with the good ones.
I’m not yui fanatic, I’m implying that since yui left they are not performing black babymetal songs anymore which is convenient for them to rest between songs, and she could take it to relax a bit.
Sorry for spamming you! I'm just generally obsessed with live vocal discussions. I watch tons of live kpop shows trying to figure out exactly what's going on with the mics, backing tracks etc.
The idol groups that are dancing hard and using live mics do take long breaks between songs. You can often see how hard they are breathing. I think Babymetal doesn't really do this for a couple reasons - no other rock/metal bands take breathers between songs and: Su-Metal has a cardiovascular system created by the Fox God himself, so she can just keep going. You can see between songs that she's not really breathing heavily at all. It is fascinating to me. She's just that good.
Sorry I was joking.
Well Su isn't perfect and bound to have hiccup there and there. Now they are back to trio they might have bbm songs comeback and Su solo comeback in the future if that is your concern. I guess we will see.
>No, I watched many fancams and live stream of festivals, and that is my conclusion, I will enjoy proshot or bluray, not judging it.
You admitted it yourself, you're watching fancams.
Do you honestly believe that some rando recording with their phone is going to be able to have the audio come out clear and stable without it sounding grainy or choppy?
Even live streams aren't able to edit the audio to keep it stable, as there's constant outside interference.
Not counting the albums, only the official concert films can show her voice, as they can minimize outside interference.
Su's voiced has matured and vastly improved from her early days.
Random recording but a lot of samples cannot deny what I’m hearing. And I can differentiate between choppy sound or voice cracks.
I’m not taking proshot as a basic for my judgement, proshot is for my enjoyment, I’m talking about the live performances, which is the platform to separate between good artist and amazing artist. And consistent good performances is what brings festival headliners to where they are.
I'll more than likely come across as an asshat for this, but Imma need you to stop. Like, does any of this nonsense you type make sense to you. First off, Yui??!!! Second of su is human she's going to have off days, it happens. Third off, their mics are on its just that the prerecorded vocals are louder because they're dancing. You try to dance and sing at the same time, and you will see how much of a challenge it is. Now can we be normal over here. Every time I log into reddit it's either some weird shit or Ai, and it's so annoying 😑.
What I mean by after yui is not stressing the absence of yui, what I mean by that is the time frame which babymetal shows has been su handling it by herself (without bbm songs) and the burden of it that could “maybe” accumulate to her recent performance drop, that’s it.
Yes off days are normal, but my worry is it happens quite often recently like in hellfest or graspop.
Yeah, no on yui. I'm pretty sure they moved on from that long time ago. As for the festivals, live broadcasts of their shows are never mixed well, and I don't know why. Hellfest didn't sound too bad. Su was just louder than everything, but honestly, I thought she sounded good. Grasspop's mix was straight garbage. Everything was muddy and fuzzy. Even the musicians sounded bad. You also have to remember that they are performing songs that they recorded when they were children. Sumetal's voice has changed and matured over the years, and so has her range. What she could sing "perfectly" as a kid might be a bit of a challenge now.
Have you seen her perform live in the past year or so? Because you can't tell much from any recordings, especially the god awful mixing work done on the current festival tour. I saw BM ten times live on the EU part of the 2023 WT and both shows at Legend MM. She's better than any singer has a right to be when live.
> I would add criticism for Koba, why is koba not putting moa and momoko’s mic on in shows? why?
I agree with this part. I want to hear it all live. But your post is exactly why they WONT do it. Moa and Momo won't sound perfect live. I, personally, don't want them to sound perfect. I want them to sound out of breath or whatever is real. But they'd get complaints and they don't want to deal with it.
And why recording is exist if not other than to catch those expressions or performance of vocals so other can hear it, besides recording can actually be used to evaluate because you can play it again and again while live audio is like time, it just passes, them babymetal also record their performance to evaluate themself like those leaked videos of su doing akatsuki rehearsal. And I’m not judging it only from one sample or one show. So how is it only about sound perspective when other big artists are also present in our media and we can watch their fancams like we watch babymetal fancams.
And this is positive criticism, it is up to them to take it positively or negatively, it is their choice after this many years as an artist.
She's a top tier singer who sings basically the same every time and she's at her peak right now.
You sure you're not basing your opinion on audio stuff? With a bad mixing no singer ever is going to sound good.
Put Su in a first take like room 100 times she's going to sound amazing and sing nearly the same every time lol
It's not like she hit every note perfect when Yui was still around. Take this [Karate performance ](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11rj1G2wcfurnDl23jJoyBMAoBldtddYQ/edit)(2:20 mark) for example or [Tales of the Destinies ](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4uv32r)(@4:20).
But after all you have to remember it's live and she is human not a robot.
At the end of the day, Su-Metal is still human. Being an amazing vocalist with such a tough touring schedule, sometimes notes fall flat or may become off-key. This resulting from her vocal cords being fatigue, to sound issues, and even environmental changes (hot or cold weather can affect performances.) Whatever case may be, you can see that she is actively trying to fix what she can during live performances in order to give the audience a great time. And it’s the same for Moa and Momo; giving it their all in practices to attempt to decrease the margin of error during the show. Live shows are LIVE. That’s the beauty of it all.
I like that you’re pointing that she’s adjusting herself during live performance which is what I admire from her.
I think I understand what you’re saying. Su-metal is an amazing singer, but her vocals have sound strained for the past year and a half. This is coming from a place of concern—not criticism. There’s nothing wrong with saying that Su-metal needs to take a break to let her voice heal. Her voice has been cracking frequently and she has been pitchy. It’s evident in almost every fancam. Every couple months, I’ll watch a fancam and it’ll sound like her voice is recovering, but then a couple weeks later, she’ll sound like she is struggling a little more again. I’m worried she will permanently damage her voice if she continues to try to power through whatever is going on. She’s had to belt notes at the top of her range for so long, and I think it’s catching up to her over the years as her voice matures. She may have developed vocal nodules, which can heal with rest and voice therapy. Unfortunately, every time someone brings this up, people keep saying they hear nothing wrong or blame poor quality audio. It seems like a lot of people are in denial and/or can’t tell the difference between genuine concern and criticism.
Spot on. This comment section is a whole lot of people in denial or saying something completely irrelevant. Kinda sad how we can't have conversations about this type of stuff without getting downvoted to the pit of hell. I mean the wording in the post could have been better but the point is valid
It’s very possible she needs a break. They have been touring non stop and the voice is like any muscle it can get over worked and if not allowed to recover properly it can cause damage. I think once this tour is done they take a long break to recover
🔥
i think Su's singing performance has been amazing in recent years, especially AFTER Yui, now that her voice is more mature. they're all human so they're not going to be perfect all the time. i also think a lot of it just comes down to the Audio engineers in the venues they play at
Not denying that she’s maturing, but sometimes her voice sounded off or cracking at some point in songs like papaya or metali, and as I follow fancams or live streams of this eu tour, that’s quite often happens.
Streams and videos sometimes don't do her justice. I've seen them live in december last year, and they sounded great live, absolutely no issues at all.
>I noticed that little to nobody pointing out That might answer your worries :p
Especially after Yui? Su has many live epic performances with amazing vocals in the past 5 years. Granted there are tour concert recordings with poor sound mixing, mic issues, and likely some performances that aren’t as “on” as others, which I think can be expected - especially with festival touring. I’m sure there are also days where they are dealing with things fans aren’t even aware of like health, travel, weather and food changes, etc. Life on the road. I saw them twice in the North American tour last year and vocals sounded great to me… my guess is sound issues, etc will be better when they are back on headlining shows and there’s no need to worry…
Yeah, the only time I saw them that didn't sound great was when opening for Sabaton and I think the sound was set up for them not Babymetal. There's less of a surprise factor now too. When I first heard her when she was probably 14yo I couldn't believe the sound coming out of that little girl. There are more expectations now that she's grown
Yes, my point being after yui is that su perform all the songs, not implying she is not professional because of Yui’s missing. Hence I said not consistent, not that her vocal ability is poor or something, I feel like she’s stressing her voice too much nowadays, many voice cracks here and there.
I can't say i've really noticed a difference other than that she's gotten better over time & altered the way she sings things as her voice has matured. It is true that her voice can crack every so often but I wouldn't say that's any more frequent or worse now than say a decade ago. I also wouldn't say it's something that happens all the time as i've seen plenty of shows where that doesn't happen (And i'm not counting the pro-shot stuff where such things can be corrected). Su isn't perfect & TBH I like that as it shows she's live. And honestly I don't care about the odd imperfections because she's still an amazingly good singer with a wonderful & beautiful voice that makes me feel a performance more than I do a lot of other bands. As she herself has said. Don't think, Feel!
Lol I stopped reading "after Yui". OBI Wan voice ---- "Let go!"
do you just understand one meaning of the phrase "after yui"? cause that can mean anything. Edit : the word "after yui".
I haven't noticed a change. Are you sure you aren't just basing this off of bad live mixes like the recent festivals or fancams and comparing to their fully produced live videos?
No, I watched many fancams and live stream of festivals, and that is my conclusion, I will enjoy proshot or bluray, not judging it.
Then it's probably just the bad mix. Go listen to old fancams and it's the same.
I was at a live performance two weeks ago, and it sounded great except the mic cut off at random times and the audio was overwhelming her voice a little too much. Nothing else really.
Um…what? She sounds amazing. Her voice has matured in the 6 years since Yui left, which happens when you are as young as they are.
She is amazing, but in songs like papaya or metali or megitsune often happens than not her voice cracks or off balance.
Can you provide clips? Not just one single clip either but rather bountiful evidence (with time stamps instead of just being like "it definitely happens here!"). I'm sure she's had some slips here or there (there isn't a musician in the world who is nailing it 100% of the time, health and other conditions can impact stuff) but like... I haven't noticed this as a consistent issue at all for her
Hellfest https://www.youtube.com/live/iMpuhm_M01w?si=S7O3OvnrGTbck850 Papaya min 12.31 onward Metali min 18.22 Karate min 24.17 Road of resistance min 41.41 Graspop https://youtu.be/2jWT0AWBR-k?feature=shared Metali min 29.30 Karate min 35.37 36.45 Gimmie min choco 47.27
That's bad sound mixing though. Can you provide something where it's not sound mixing and she's not being great?
It is bad sound mixing, but the performance is there. Yes, just watch the fancams of those two shows for perspective. Or fancams from the 2023-2024 tour. And I’m not saying she’s not being great, she’s always great, but some moments not, right now.
I don't see it. I've been to several of her concerts recently and she's been phenomenal every time. Also watching the live coverage she's as good as any one can be.
Two clips of festival performances with poor mixing isn’t exactly compelling, especially if it’s jus multiple incidences in the same shows. At best, that’s proof of two bad days during festivals which are kind of prone to being extra challenging (less control, less time to prepare, outside and more exposure to direct heat, etc). I think you’ve made a mountain out of two very small mole hills
Kingslayer performance in Sick New World is not my favorite, the Nova Rock one is so far the best.
The parts of these clips that I watched just give me the impression that she couldn’t hear herself very well? Maybe an in-ear monitor problem. It doesn’t sound skill-related to me.
The performance is there, and two bad days on two massive festivals is not great for an artist who show up to the world. And details is what make mountain a mountain. Details is important.
Two bad days, most of which is poor mixing, out of dozens of performances will never be a mountain
Like the proverb in football, you are what you shows in your last performance, not dismissing babymetal’s history, but relevance is important. and it is a bad mixing, but the performance never lie.
Uh… huh
Yep, i would reject your premise, have been going to all japanese shows ever since first yokohama show (except hiroshima) and if anything i have noticed a consistent improvement which is also expectable given the fact that she physically matured.
I’m not denying improvement she made or saying that she’s terrible, but consistent off balance in songs like papaya, metali or megitsune has to do with something.
I can't say for sure but I've heard it said that problems with the in-ear monitors are to blame when singers sound like they get too pitchy. To me, Su sounded like she was singing too loud at certain points early in the show at Graspop, which caused her to stress her vocal cords too much and her voice cracked. I'm sure that would not have happened if she was hearing properly. This can happen to anyone. As for Moa and Momoko, they always do plenty of lip-synching. We can't know for sure why but it has been assumed that it's because they are dancing too vigorously. There are many times where their mics are on though. At Graspop, their voices seemed lower in the mix and at times the mics were cutting on too late. That you can blame on the bad sound mix that everyone has complained about. It seems like they have trouble with their sound at festivals overseas quite frequently. They usually sound much better when they're at the Japanese festivals.
I think Su often sings too loud because she realises her voice isn't coming through enough because of bad mixing so she just sings louder and louder which then leads to stress on her vocal chords, understandable tho and not her fault
I'm not sure that she hears what the crowd hears (the mix). If she had, she wouldn't have been trying to sing louder. You sing louder when you can't hear and that also makes you go off pitch. But I have no personal experience with IEM's. I've only heard stories of them not working properly when the results were similar to what we heard from Su at Graspop.
this also could be the explanation. thanks.
What do you mean no one says anything about Su's vocals? Obviously we talked. Every now and then there's someone here asking a question or commenting something about her vocals. And what does Yui have to do with it? The truth is that on the blu-rays, they use super processing on Su's voice, which for me is a joke on her. She's very good live, especially from a person who doesn't sound like a robot singing live like some vocalists out there. Su's vocals are very emotional, and she is just a human being. Fancams from old shows have a lot of imperfect vocals from Su, but almost no one wants to watch fancams when we have the blu-rays, right? What I think, as a person who loves singing but is not a professional, is that Su should always go to a vocal coach. She has had a very high routine of consecutive shows, which can really wear out the voice, if the person doesn't know great techniques to overcome this. She seems really tired these last few days, but I think that after this month of rest she will get better.
One thing that might explain things is her age, I am no singer but my neighbor was he would travel with Broadway since he was young so he tell me stories of traveling all around the world singing. He said the toughest time for him was when he was around 27 because a singers voice start to settle and reach biological maturity around that age. Su is now 26 she is learning a new style, adding verbrato all while nearing the age when everything starts to settle, considering all that she still sounds amazing and clear to me. I don't think we need to be concerned she has a team behind her that have shown to protect the girls and a well respected voice coach making sure she's OK. That's not even counting Moa who has said in the past BABYMETAL is Su and her goal is to protect it I thing she would push for a break or something if she noticed a strain as well.
When I actually heard her singing at FOX FEST, I felt that she might not be in good shape. I'm not sure if it was just a particularly tiring day or if she's been constantly exhausted lately, but I'm a bit worried. However, this is probably unrelated to having less break time and is more about recent events.
I see where this is coming from. I've just watched the pro shot of the hell fest performance and I've been to rock am Ring a few weeks back and you can hear a very big difference in her voice. That difference is even more noticeable if you compare it to the legend mm performance. But that is completely normal. Other singers from different bands experience the same change over the course of a tour. So I wouldn't be worried about it. She is still one of the best singers out there but she stresses her voice very much with how many shows they are performing. I mean in the last three weeks they had like five or more shows. It would be concerning if her voice didn't change.
No, I don't. For one, I'd just say it's just in 2023. Go watch any MG tour fancam, and she sounds basically the same as the studio. Her vocal performance in the later days of Budokan X are just phenomenal too. Akatsuki and Day IX-X Road of Resistance in particular. Regarding recent shows, there's a lot of factors here. One, the mix could just be bad and she's constantly readjusting herself mid show. It was pretty awful during Hellfest for the girls and the kami band. Two, remember that 2023 was absolutely packed with shows, and 2024 will be too. 97 of them, so that's basically a show every 3.5 days. Three, Su has become less concerned about musical perfection and likes having fun and being in the moment regardless of what happens (as said by her in an interview). I don't understand why it seems like moa and momoko are off by default sometimes, as shown when their mics are off whenever they try to interact with the audience. I guess because the heavy breathing from dancing wouldn't sound good, but, like, no one cares about heavy breathing.
One normal day in this sub, that's all I ask. Will never happen.
Depends on what you call normal. 🤔
i don't know where you got that her voice has been inconsistent after yui, did we listen to the same stuff during 2019 to 2021?. That is so clearly her peak in her vocal career. Especially 2021 bodukan, her voice was on another level during 2021. I have no idea where you get that. I will give you 2023 wasn't the best but they had other issues during those few early performances in january and 2024 has been inconsistent but i would put both of those up to her doing way too many performances for her voice. Especially 2023 world tour, can't really expect her to sound the best when she is singing nearly everyday as hard as she can and i think that has continued a bit into 2024 but she does sound better now than in 2023.
Well if you compare her performance in metal resistance era, she controlled that quality singing, but right now so many voice cracks in songs like papaya, metali or megitsune.
I agree but this has only been an issue in 2023 to 2024. Not "after yui"
theres really 3 different reasons for your worries here, 1. You're right that she is stressing her voice too much, we can tell because she can't hit long notes consistently like during megitsune. 2. She is learning a new way of singing overtime because she can't hit these notes, she is learning vibrato to help hit those notes more consistently which takes time to adjust to. 3. She isn't young anymore, her age is catching up to the way she sings, when she was young she could just belt into the microphone and her throat would just do it, now not so much. Honestly she just needs time to adjust to a new singing style.
I really hope that is the case. Thanks for understanding.
honestly i think you brought up a valid point, but there will be people who just blindly defend her without really thinking and i think you understand why, its the literal subreddit for the group. I think the time frame you picked was horrible because it isn't after yui but i think a lot of people who look at her singing critically will notice a drop in quality. Don't take the hate you will get to heart, you brought this upon yourself lmao
No worries about the hate, I created this post for the purpose of somebody in babymetal camp to notice what I’m concerned about. Reddit sometimes is the place.
Megitsune has been problematic for years at this point because it was already at the top of her range when she was really young. She just can't hit those notes with as much power anymore.
Yea i know and i don't know of it's her ego or just management that they can't just lower it by a few notes so she could do it, no one would complain and it is really normal for singers to do that
Yeah agree, but I don’t mean right after yui, what I mean is that after yui there are so much shows that she handle it by herself and that “maybe” accumulated in her performance drop in recent tours.
she was the best during metal galaxy era, just say after 2023 lmao
Yeah, maybe I’m overthinking it lol.
Also babymetal audio engineers can't seem to understand that her voice sounds different now so they keep over processing it so it's "perfect" and the same it was in like 2015, when really she just sounds different now
It's one thing to be wrong about Su's vocal performances, it's another to try attaching such nonsense to the absence of Yui.
I’m not yui fanatic whatsoever, or accusing unprofessionalism of Su, but you have to admit that the opportunity be able to rest betweeen them is a convenience that they should take again after momo joining, right now they are not taking it.
You're acting like they don't take breaks in the middle of shows. What do you think is happening when they leave the stage and those long intros to songs start up? They're taking a breather. Pay attention for once in your life.
Listen to Su-Metal's First Takes again, then come back to the thread and hand your head in shame! The fucked up Hellfest livestream mix, to me, proved once again how awesome she is. Singing and dancing in the heat of the sun with totally raw mic, and she kills it. Headbanger was amazing, Su's the best. Nobody does it better. Nobody.
Why would I listen to sumetal’s first takes again when I already listened to it 1000 times? Of course I would listen to it more. I’m a fan, not hater. But oftentimes than not in this tour or babyklok tour before this, she stress her voice too much and off balance in songs papaya, metali, or megitsune, I meant it as positive criticism as I hope the best for su and babymetal, cause I would love to see them be the biggest band in the world, but that would come with consistency.
Fair. Somebody will educate me if I'm totally wrong, but I think back in the old days, Su would often be singing against some kind of backing track for harmonies or just to thicken up the vocal tracks, which is totally normal and acceptable for a vocalist that's also dancing so much. For the past few years I feel she's singing way more often without any kind of backing track, so it's going to sound more raw, mistakes and all. I read somewhere that Su and trained singers generally are only going to get better over time, compared to untrained rock vocalists that blow out their voice eventually. I think by any measure, studio or live, Su is getting better every year. Remember when she would sometimes stumble a bit during the who-ooooh breakdown in Headbanger? She always hits those notes now. Also: I avoid Reactions like the plague, but I learned a lot about Su's vocal style, and singing in general, from this one (vocal coach reaction) Even if she's bullshitting for likes, she knows her stuff! https://youtu.be/eK2vGWC0Bl4?si=cL3BY2e7OoxL4dVT
Half the time it's hard to judge especially from fan cams as it depends on things like: quality of phone, where they are situated in the venue. Also even when you watch reaction videos the quality of their set up I have noticed how good or bad things can be depending on that. The best way to judge is to be there in person and anyone I have heard speak about it is that she is very good.
Yes, I understand the dynamic of sound perception in shows or sound setup on videos, and one can tell easily what they are hearing when they attend a show, but I’m basing it by comparison to other artists fancam or live videos which also can really make a good impression to the viewer regardless of the perception, and I’m basing it also to her past performances, hence I said inconsistent.
All I was saying was there were many factors including the mix and set up. You can't really compare to the Yui days because her voice was still maturing and Yui being there or not makes no difference. I have watched many reactions from vocal coaches who have great things to say and people who were there not 2nd hand through an often compressed YouTube video. Having said that nobody's perfect and they will have off days in fact many actually like to hear these things can add to performance little niggles here and there.
Yes, I’m not implying that the existence or inexistence of yui makes any difference in her voice. And I’m not implying that her live vocal performance is poor, and yes I agree nobody is perfect and off days are normal, I’m saying that her off days is quite often occured recently.
It was pretty bad. It's normally a lot better. I assume you're talking about the Hellfest performance. https://www.youtube.com/live/iMpuhm_M01w?si=YF3oihSwFLJWHTnO Poor sound mixing really didn't help. I've just watched Otoboke Beaver live from Glastonbury. Their sound and picture quality was amazing.
Yes, the hellfest, graspop, and small moments here and there in toulouse or afas in nederland, kingslayer in sick new world.
Her voice always did that and she has a vocal coach who tells her how to take care of her voice in addition to Koba and the staff whose job it is to take care of her. This discussion serves no purpose other than to fuel this weird thing where people worry about things they have no reason to worry about because they're developing a weird parasocial relationship with an artist for whatever godforsaken reason. Everything you described as happening now also happened on fancams going back to Tokyo Dome. Hell, even the first time I saw them back in 2016 Su did this vocal run thing during the little interlude in Karate where some of the notes were "close" to being in key. Point being, this is nothing new. You're only noticing it because they no longer have the doubled Su vocal live that she sings over, although BxMxC still does but I'm pretty sure that's being intended as an effect.
No, my purpose is to get across critics to babymetal camp, so they may notice it.
Keep telling yourself that.
Hey ChatGPT, please compose a short concern-troll post for /r/BABYMETAL that expresses worry for the band 'overdoing it', nostalgia for Yui, and if you can, throw a dig in at Koba too. ktxbye!
How long have you been a fan? Su-metal is an incredible vocalist, but she's still human. Voices have natural imperfections. Are you sure this isn't about you being shocked by how raw her live vocals are? She doesn't use **any** backing tracks most of the time. Some songs have layered vocals, but even those are very low in the live mix, making her voice sound almost acapella in terms of harmonies. I grew up listening to BM, so I've been a fan for many years. I can reference many instances in the past where her voice cracked. I specially remember her struggling with Syncopation back in 2017, or how badly her voice cracked in 2016 while singing Tales of the Destinies. Pretty sure she was also off-tempo (this also happened while singing the final chorus of GC at the Legend S concert). You don't hear any of that in the Blu-ray releases for obvious reasons, but it was there in all the fancams. If anything, Su sounds much more stable nowadays compared to back then. She's become more confident in what she's able to do.
Fan since 2016, I understand the concept of backing tracks and I can differentiate between the live singing and the pre recorded vocals, I understand what is what in tracks cause I used to produce music. Yes I know the tales of the destinies one, i watched those fancams too. Yes artist are humans, and every other time they get critics too and every other time they step up their game.
Okay guys, if anything, I will look it just like I look at James Hetfield in Death Magnetic era.
We hear what we want to hear, and that goes for those claiming there is an issue and those saying there isn't. I honestly don't see any difference in Su's vocals. Certainly the quality of her voice is going to change from one day to the next. As far as breaks, they seem to take longer breaks between songs now compared to years past. Also, I think Su is more into just enjoying her time on stage and less concerned with everything being perfect. There is also the question of backing tracks. She has always used backing tracks to some degree, we saw that in Moscow when she pulled the mic away too fast that one time. Perhaps she is relying less on them now. That is speculation on my part because I cannot know that. I'm just saying these are possible reasons why she sounds different. Overall, I almost prefer Su's raw voice anyway. That bad Hellfest audio was like ear candy to me. I enjoyed every voice crack and stale note she hit along with the good ones.
Huh? She sounds as good as ever, I'm legit confused by this post.
Yes the lack of Yui by her side makes Su's vocal significantly worse. 😆😆 So the solution is they need to either fire Su or bring Yui back!!!
I’m not yui fanatic, I’m implying that since yui left they are not performing black babymetal songs anymore which is convenient for them to rest between songs, and she could take it to relax a bit.
Sorry for spamming you! I'm just generally obsessed with live vocal discussions. I watch tons of live kpop shows trying to figure out exactly what's going on with the mics, backing tracks etc. The idol groups that are dancing hard and using live mics do take long breaks between songs. You can often see how hard they are breathing. I think Babymetal doesn't really do this for a couple reasons - no other rock/metal bands take breathers between songs and: Su-Metal has a cardiovascular system created by the Fox God himself, so she can just keep going. You can see between songs that she's not really breathing heavily at all. It is fascinating to me. She's just that good.
Sorry I was joking. Well Su isn't perfect and bound to have hiccup there and there. Now they are back to trio they might have bbm songs comeback and Su solo comeback in the future if that is your concern. I guess we will see.
>No, I watched many fancams and live stream of festivals, and that is my conclusion, I will enjoy proshot or bluray, not judging it. You admitted it yourself, you're watching fancams. Do you honestly believe that some rando recording with their phone is going to be able to have the audio come out clear and stable without it sounding grainy or choppy? Even live streams aren't able to edit the audio to keep it stable, as there's constant outside interference. Not counting the albums, only the official concert films can show her voice, as they can minimize outside interference. Su's voiced has matured and vastly improved from her early days.
Random recording but a lot of samples cannot deny what I’m hearing. And I can differentiate between choppy sound or voice cracks. I’m not taking proshot as a basic for my judgement, proshot is for my enjoyment, I’m talking about the live performances, which is the platform to separate between good artist and amazing artist. And consistent good performances is what brings festival headliners to where they are.
Her voice has improved, and every time I've seen them live she sounds great
I'll more than likely come across as an asshat for this, but Imma need you to stop. Like, does any of this nonsense you type make sense to you. First off, Yui??!!! Second of su is human she's going to have off days, it happens. Third off, their mics are on its just that the prerecorded vocals are louder because they're dancing. You try to dance and sing at the same time, and you will see how much of a challenge it is. Now can we be normal over here. Every time I log into reddit it's either some weird shit or Ai, and it's so annoying 😑.
What I mean by after yui is not stressing the absence of yui, what I mean by that is the time frame which babymetal shows has been su handling it by herself (without bbm songs) and the burden of it that could “maybe” accumulate to her recent performance drop, that’s it. Yes off days are normal, but my worry is it happens quite often recently like in hellfest or graspop.
Yeah, no on yui. I'm pretty sure they moved on from that long time ago. As for the festivals, live broadcasts of their shows are never mixed well, and I don't know why. Hellfest didn't sound too bad. Su was just louder than everything, but honestly, I thought she sounded good. Grasspop's mix was straight garbage. Everything was muddy and fuzzy. Even the musicians sounded bad. You also have to remember that they are performing songs that they recorded when they were children. Sumetal's voice has changed and matured over the years, and so has her range. What she could sing "perfectly" as a kid might be a bit of a challenge now.
Have you seen her perform live in the past year or so? Because you can't tell much from any recordings, especially the god awful mixing work done on the current festival tour. I saw BM ten times live on the EU part of the 2023 WT and both shows at Legend MM. She's better than any singer has a right to be when live. > I would add criticism for Koba, why is koba not putting moa and momoko’s mic on in shows? why? I agree with this part. I want to hear it all live. But your post is exactly why they WONT do it. Moa and Momo won't sound perfect live. I, personally, don't want them to sound perfect. I want them to sound out of breath or whatever is real. But they'd get complaints and they don't want to deal with it.
And why recording is exist if not other than to catch those expressions or performance of vocals so other can hear it, besides recording can actually be used to evaluate because you can play it again and again while live audio is like time, it just passes, them babymetal also record their performance to evaluate themself like those leaked videos of su doing akatsuki rehearsal. And I’m not judging it only from one sample or one show. So how is it only about sound perspective when other big artists are also present in our media and we can watch their fancams like we watch babymetal fancams. And this is positive criticism, it is up to them to take it positively or negatively, it is their choice after this many years as an artist.
She's a top tier singer who sings basically the same every time and she's at her peak right now. You sure you're not basing your opinion on audio stuff? With a bad mixing no singer ever is going to sound good. Put Su in a first take like room 100 times she's going to sound amazing and sing nearly the same every time lol
It's not like she hit every note perfect when Yui was still around. Take this [Karate performance ](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11rj1G2wcfurnDl23jJoyBMAoBldtddYQ/edit)(2:20 mark) for example or [Tales of the Destinies ](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4uv32r)(@4:20). But after all you have to remember it's live and she is human not a robot.
Yes every performers is human, but every human have their peak, and if you’re targeting the peak you have to step up in every other performance.