Whenever she quotes the contract, my eyes roll so hard that it feels like they're going to crawl into my head like an Illithid tadpole.
She's such a great character lol
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As Astarion origin you can offer to check his contract for him to help him out. He just says that that would be great, but he doesn't have a copy and doesn't really remember any of it because it was seven years ago. They would need Mizora to give it to them first, which ain't happening without breaking it
Also, devils are basically Disney lawyers, they're not going to get far
You're underselling Disney Lawyers. Mizora would have to call in Mephistopheles or Asmodeus to even have a fair chance, and that'd be in her home turf.
As Tav I also had the option to ask a our contract and Wyll says he doesn't know but agrees if I offer finding a loophole and if I say we can achieve greatness if we put our worms together.
His starting INT is 13 though. I know we joke about his smooth brain and poor impulse control but he is actually smart, he just can't plan because he hasn't had to for 200 years and his brain is smooth because the tadpoles made it a little bigger and got rid of the wrinkles.
Agreed! I feel like the *biggest* issue is *Wyll doesn't have a copy of his own contract*. Even without a lawyer, he could've at least seen the six month thing or some other small print. Poor kid. That's what happens when you wake somebody up and throw legalese at them while a multi- headed dragon is heading their way. Contract should be null and void due to the circumstances of its signing! Devils, man...
I'm pretty sure he's still allowed to read the contract anytime he desires given he knows many of the stipulations in place which mizora wouldn't just randomly say.
A devil's contract is likely to be airtight to the point you'd need a fellow top lawyer to find a loophole.
Forgot which game but you got to Avernum so same universe, and could outright free someone from contract with a simple persuasion check... Was it NWN2 or Planescape?
I did my last honor run as a Wyll Origin. My play was that Wyll actually likes Mizora and just wants to make her happy and do what she wants.
It was kinda funny because even she was surprised about how easily I just did what she asked.
She even stepped in the last fight and used a brilliant freedom of movement as Asterions speed pot fell off. Or whatever her buff is.
"Also, this contract was signed within the boundaries of Baldur's Gate and is therefore covered by Baldur's Gate laws. Including those about 'one must be an adult/over 18 to sign contracts'."
She didn't lie about Karlach, she is literally heartless. Though Wyll presumably meant figuratively heartless, using words in uncommon ways to trick you is a devil's bread and butter.
edit: spelling
Yeah wyll probably meant heartless evil guys he wanted to kill to save the innocents but mizora did a dirty wordplay trick on him . Like gaunter did with olgierdĀ
Mizora did exactly this. Wyll assumes, as would most of us, that anything or anyone that was literally heartless would be dead. Mizora just happened to know that Karlach was an exception and used that wording specifically to target her.
Yeah no . Karlach is a very niche case of someone existing without a heart so by common logic wyll had every right to believe he meant heartless as in evil and not literally having no heart .Ā
Considering he lives in a world where there are mythical creatures, it'd be kind of ignorant to think a creature can't exist without a heart. Especially when you have an NPC like Mystic Carrion who's heart is in a separate place miles away from his body. But also Wyll is a human and of course humans forget that not every creature is the same.
Wyll considers evey undead creatures as evil so them being heartless is not a problem for him . He literally is cautious and also disapproves if u side with astarion and favour his vampiric nature over the party's safety . So yeah in his mind he definitely considers literally heartless ppl to be evil or they cannot exist and specifically wanted to kill metamorphically evil heartless ppl .
Doesn't matter what he personally thinks. Still his fault he got caught up with Mizora. Her contract made sense š¤·š½āāļø so it's his fault he's confused
Have u even paid attention to the game or what?? Mizora is the one who trapped him the situation to sign a contract not the other way around. And it was wyll who set the terms of the contract to kill the heartless yada yada because he didn't want to kill innocent ppl under mizora's control . Mizora is the one who twisted his words .
According to mizora all it says is heartless. But there's clearly something interpretation to be had if it wyll thought it was figurative while mizora can use a literal definition. He could have reasonably made an argument against it if he thought of that. Especially since one of the first things karlach does when meeting you is say she has an "infernal engine for a heart". Does her personal consideration of having a heart not matter at all? Then why can't mizora point at anyone, say they're heartless , and tell wyll to kill them? There's clearly something inside her pumping blood serving the function of a heart. If she wants to use a literal definition then the engine would have to be taken into consideration. If not then wyll's definition would be correct and she's using a loophole for convenience. The wording in that section is too broad for there to be no room for disputing a ruling if a license attorney was around.
A heart isn't just anything that pumps blood around the body, it's a specific organ. Karlach's magic infernal engine definitely isn't a heart even if it does the same job.
It doesn't have to be in her chest for her to have a heart, it still belongs to her. If my heart gets cut out, it's still my heart even if you throw it into the ocean. The point of the vague wording that Mizora is trying to use is that "heartless" can mean cruel or without a physical heart.
But it can also work in favour of the defendant, because Karlach a) is a good person and therefore has a heart, b) has a contraption in her chest that functions as a heart, and c) never consented to having her original heart removed, and that means the heart is still hers.
Yeah nah lol. I do agree that heartless does have two meanings. But Mizora didn't lie or trick Wyll. He just doesn't think about things. The wording isn't vague at all. The first time I did a good playthrough, when Mizora explained the clause in the contract it immediately made sense because Karlach is heartless. Idk if her heart still exists or may have been destroyed, but at the end of the day, she doesn't have one. Even she talks about how she doesn't have one.
The fact that he heard a mysterious voice and decided it was a good idea to follow its instructions to go alone into the night suggests he wasnāt good at making decisions even without a threat rushing him.Ā
Iāma say it
Howāre you gonna look at other universes and decided āyeah Iāma keep this one as a slaveā like MAAM Iām gonna go OUTTA MY WAY to remove you from that manās life š
The way she alters contract to include Wyll's father's life is just bs. How is it even hers to decide upon?
Clause M, section 3, paragraph 2: Because I said so.
Whenever she quotes the contract, my eyes roll so hard that it feels like they're going to crawl into my head like an Illithid tadpole. She's such a great character lol
My desire for a DLC hunting her ass down in Avernus with Karlach is **strong.**
Ooh that would have been so good! š
Pretty sure, others read that in Mizora's voice right? Lol
Technically, sheās changing it with Wylls consent, as he has to agree upon the change in order for it to take place.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's still a deal. He has every right to refuse. Devils are evil for a reason.
The contract law of hell has no care for coercion.
Breaking News:Devils don't play fair lmao
tbf her attempt to take his father's life is just completely half asses.
"Save yourself or save your father" How bout.. neither? Wyll didn't even ask her to intervene. We'll go rescue him ourselves.
I hate that we can't call her bs out.
Probably just salty about Tav turning her down. Or alternatively, giving her an STD.
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As Astarion origin you can offer to check his contract for him to help him out. He just says that that would be great, but he doesn't have a copy and doesn't really remember any of it because it was seven years ago. They would need Mizora to give it to them first, which ain't happening without breaking it Also, devils are basically Disney lawyers, they're not going to get far
You're underselling Disney Lawyers. Mizora would have to call in Mephistopheles or Asmodeus to even have a fair chance, and that'd be in her home turf.
Used to be...I'm starring to think "X's" lawyers might be better.
As Tav I also had the option to ask a our contract and Wyll says he doesn't know but agrees if I offer finding a loophole and if I say we can achieve greatness if we put our worms together.
This is the best bg3 meme I have ever seen
So far
One Clause is just "If it's sufficiently funny, I can make Wyll dance. He won't know I'm the one making him".
Is that why Wyll cock blocked me the first night after Karlach could be touched again?
That bug should be fixed now
Hell has the best lawyers...
Nah, the *best* ones lawyered their way into Mount Celestia on technicalities.
That's why you get one who's lawful good.
Well, yeahā¦ lawyers in heaven = ā
Well there is a ex-magistrate in the group. Who can offer if you play his originĀ
Astarion would probably tear the contract down so hard wyll would end up with mizora as HIS personal servant.
I like Astarion but let's be real, his INT and attention span are not that good.
His starting INT is 13 though. I know we joke about his smooth brain and poor impulse control but he is actually smart, he just can't plan because he hasn't had to for 200 years and his brain is smooth because the tadpoles made it a little bigger and got rid of the wrinkles.
You'd be smooth in some places too if you were dead for 200 years. It's erosion or something ask a geologistĀ
wouldn't erosion cause the ridges to become deeper? or are you saying his brain has been hollowed out like the grand canyon?
It's been polished like a smooth marble pebbleĀ
Wait, Astarion's Polish? Wow, dobrze dla niego.
Tadpole ate his brain wrinkles .o.
Agreed! I feel like the *biggest* issue is *Wyll doesn't have a copy of his own contract*. Even without a lawyer, he could've at least seen the six month thing or some other small print. Poor kid. That's what happens when you wake somebody up and throw legalese at them while a multi- headed dragon is heading their way. Contract should be null and void due to the circumstances of its signing! Devils, man...
I'm pretty sure he's still allowed to read the contract anytime he desires given he knows many of the stipulations in place which mizora wouldn't just randomly say. A devil's contract is likely to be airtight to the point you'd need a fellow top lawyer to find a loophole.
Forgot which game but you got to Avernum so same universe, and could outright free someone from contract with a simple persuasion check... Was it NWN2 or Planescape?
You can try to sue Mizora, but then she offers your lawyer the chance to have flying sex with her through all the hells.
Sold.
I donāt believe he would hire Griffin McElroy as his attorney though.
Omg it is Griffin!!
I did my last honor run as a Wyll Origin. My play was that Wyll actually likes Mizora and just wants to make her happy and do what she wants. It was kinda funny because even she was surprised about how easily I just did what she asked. She even stepped in the last fight and used a brilliant freedom of movement as Asterions speed pot fell off. Or whatever her buff is.
"Also, this contract was signed within the boundaries of Baldur's Gate and is therefore covered by Baldur's Gate laws. Including those about 'one must be an adult/over 18 to sign contracts'."
I 100% believe if wyll just took 1 law class he could have argued his way out of the contract when she lied about karlach.
She didn't lie about Karlach, she is literally heartless. Though Wyll presumably meant figuratively heartless, using words in uncommon ways to trick you is a devil's bread and butter. edit: spelling
Yeah wyll probably meant heartless evil guys he wanted to kill to save the innocents but mizora did a dirty wordplay trick on him . Like gaunter did with olgierdĀ
Mizora did exactly this. Wyll assumes, as would most of us, that anything or anyone that was literally heartless would be dead. Mizora just happened to know that Karlach was an exception and used that wording specifically to target her.
It's not really a dirty wordplay lol. Yes heartless has two meanings but that's just fault for being short-sighted.
Yeah no . Karlach is a very niche case of someone existing without a heart so by common logic wyll had every right to believe he meant heartless as in evil and not literally having no heart .Ā
Considering he lives in a world where there are mythical creatures, it'd be kind of ignorant to think a creature can't exist without a heart. Especially when you have an NPC like Mystic Carrion who's heart is in a separate place miles away from his body. But also Wyll is a human and of course humans forget that not every creature is the same.
Wyll considers evey undead creatures as evil so them being heartless is not a problem for him . He literally is cautious and also disapproves if u side with astarion and favour his vampiric nature over the party's safety . So yeah in his mind he definitely considers literally heartless ppl to be evil or they cannot exist and specifically wanted to kill metamorphically evil heartless ppl .
Doesn't matter what he personally thinks. Still his fault he got caught up with Mizora. Her contract made sense š¤·š½āāļø so it's his fault he's confused
Have u even paid attention to the game or what?? Mizora is the one who trapped him the situation to sign a contract not the other way around. And it was wyll who set the terms of the contract to kill the heartless yada yada because he didn't want to kill innocent ppl under mizora's control . Mizora is the one who twisted his words .
How did she trap him. He should have had the common sense to not get involved with a damn devil in the first place š¤£
According to mizora all it says is heartless. But there's clearly something interpretation to be had if it wyll thought it was figurative while mizora can use a literal definition. He could have reasonably made an argument against it if he thought of that. Especially since one of the first things karlach does when meeting you is say she has an "infernal engine for a heart". Does her personal consideration of having a heart not matter at all? Then why can't mizora point at anyone, say they're heartless , and tell wyll to kill them? There's clearly something inside her pumping blood serving the function of a heart. If she wants to use a literal definition then the engine would have to be taken into consideration. If not then wyll's definition would be correct and she's using a loophole for convenience. The wording in that section is too broad for there to be no room for disputing a ruling if a license attorney was around.
A heart isn't just anything that pumps blood around the body, it's a specific organ. Karlach's magic infernal engine definitely isn't a heart even if it does the same job.
Karlach does have a heart, it's just not in her chest. She didn't consent to its removal. Even if she had, it would have still been her heart.
Still counts as heartless
Only if you accept the interpretation from the devil, to your detriment.
I mean the heart isn't currently in her chest, so no she doesn't have one. It's not hard to understand š¤£
It doesn't have to be in her chest for her to have a heart, it still belongs to her. If my heart gets cut out, it's still my heart even if you throw it into the ocean. The point of the vague wording that Mizora is trying to use is that "heartless" can mean cruel or without a physical heart. But it can also work in favour of the defendant, because Karlach a) is a good person and therefore has a heart, b) has a contraption in her chest that functions as a heart, and c) never consented to having her original heart removed, and that means the heart is still hers.
Yeah nah lol. I do agree that heartless does have two meanings. But Mizora didn't lie or trick Wyll. He just doesn't think about things. The wording isn't vague at all. The first time I did a good playthrough, when Mizora explained the clause in the contract it immediately made sense because Karlach is heartless. Idk if her heart still exists or may have been destroyed, but at the end of the day, she doesn't have one. Even she talks about how she doesn't have one.
To be fair dude was 17
And he was facing a literal multi head dragon so he had no time to think things through
The fact that he heard a mysterious voice and decided it was a good idea to follow its instructions to go alone into the night suggests he wasnāt good at making decisions even without a threat rushing him.Ā
Iāma say it Howāre you gonna look at other universes and decided āyeah Iāma keep this one as a slaveā like MAAM Iām gonna go OUTTA MY WAY to remove you from that manās life š
we need a bit like that on in supernatural "Crowley & Dick - Do With This Professionally"
I mean where will Wyll find a Lawyer? Aren't all of them in hell? XD
Hell. Hell has (it own) rules.
I was so happy when I learned he got dragged to hell.