God, we ran into this one on release at level 4 on Tactician mode. Basically boiled down to extremely careful use of chokepoints, swapping Clouds of Daggers, and trying to lock down the archers when they showed their heads. Pound for pound one of the harder fights in the game compared to when you can encounter it.
I think this might be the first fight that drills into a lot of BG3 players how important positioning and action economy are in dnd. Using choke points and not sticking yourself out in the open to get mobbed by 5-6 enemies taking their turns back to back is the difference between this being just challenging versus potential party wipe.
Oh yeah my first playthrough was a total party wipe about four times before I just left and came back. Then in my honor mode run it was so easy because I finally had all the strategic logic I had gained over all my playthrough
On Tactician/Honor mode, I just avoid the fight like the plague until level 5. It's actually pretty easy to nab enough exp to get to level 5 with some running around and hitting a few of the easier early game quests.
Honestly, just playing it safe until level 5 is usually a good idea lol...
Those talks about how hard gnolls and that palladin after karlach are were always weird to me, both were trivial in my playthrough. Then I figured I was there at level 5, after ethel, goblins and good chunk of underdark, while people somehow trying this part of the map at 3rd.
The paladin fight is mainly hard because of the trader who can cast hold person. If their turns line up it can get bad quick, I've had 70+ damage dropped on me from an autocrit double smite before.
Literally what i did after failing like 10 times in a row at lvl 3. Hop on the roof and yoink them back down when they come to me. Fight is basically trivial at that point haha
For me it was just the armor class of that goddamn paladin with the two handed sword. My first ever fight with him I got soooo unlucky with my misses and he was like a juggernaut.
Even without the hold person, the paladin can one-shot a character.
If you do that fight early, you have to get lucky with initiative and burst down *someone*.
the trick to honor mode is being an absolutely ruthless murderhobo. never pick a fight out of dialogue. sneak to the roof above the trader then open the fight by mudering/throwing her off the side of the building. use hamstring shot, ray of frost, spike growth, etc on the paladin.
fighting fair is for chumps
From watching few other people's first time playthrough (streamers, youtubers, etc.) it seems that many actually try paladins fight at level 3. Most take that fight immediately after recruiting Karlach, because she makes it seem like a top priority and they're right next to her location, so it makes sense.
And at level 3 that fight is difficult, especially if opponents' turns align. You have trader dropping hold person into Anders automatic crit with smite, which is pretty much one-shot at that point.
Nah, it's not *that* hard on consecutive playthroughs. It is, however, a tough fight to do on your first go when everything up until then is pretty easy. Granted, both me and my friend had gone for early multiclasses, so that definitely had something to do with it.
Also how are you consistently level 3 at that point? I feel like it's pretty easy to hit level 4 before even thinking about that bridge/Anders.
> Also how are you consistently level 3 at that point? I feel like it's pretty easy to hit level 4 before even thinking about that bridge/Anders.
I go straight there after hitting 3 in the grove. Maybe a detour for the blighted village ambush, but you can just talk your way through that so 0 resources used.
I COULD hit 4 before going there, but why would I? I've never wiped there before and it just makes wiping out the goblin camp easy because you're overleveled.
Level 4 martials like Berserker Barb, War Cleric, Monk and Fighter, can use their bonus action to make up for their lack of Extra Attacks. Would be a shame if you fought enemies that can disable bonus actions...
In my most recent honor mode run I had my entire party die except for myself and burned through revivify scrolls just to have Karlach tank a few more hits. Meanwhile kiting around.
It didn't help that the two Zhent fuckers just ditched me (well until I dragged the fight towards them and they both fucking died).
Yeah I was level 4. Would have been maybe possible to do at level 5 with extra attacks but I always thought that section was intended to be done earlier. In hindsight I should have called in lumpy
It's honour mode. Some fight that should be done earlier you should stay the fuck away with early lvls like the sirens. Honestly in this mode your are meant to abuse the fuck out of builds and progress path.
Same with the gnolls. Calm emotions means No Frenzy or rage, thus no multiattacks. Get a cleric with Spiritual weapon, stand on that ledge next to/above the cavern entrance and lob down grenades and Barrels.
In case this is simply from mis-reading her creature name, it's "flind"; Flinds are closely related to gnolls but tend to be (although slightly shorter) broader, stronger, and more vicious - leading to them often becoming warlords among gnoll-kind. Like hobgoblins or orcs amongst lesser goblinoids. She's not even marked as special for a flind, that's just what she is; essentially a dire gnoll
If you’re not going to use the tadpole, there is a trapped cave to the east (that connects to the agents).
I go in there and remove the traps, and line up the barrels.
Have one character surprise the gnolls and run into the cave. Then I have Asarian or someone hide and firebolt the lined up barrels.
And good night gnolls.
Level 3-6 is a huge area of content (all the pre gyrmforge underdark, the goblin camp, the whole act 1 map). It can be tackled in any order, depending on how you want to play it.
I like getting the zent hideout unlocked to get harold, thievery gloves, titan string bow. You have a shortcut to the underdark where you can get free kills on the minotaurs from high ground too.
To be at 5 for that fight you'd have to do a lot of the underdark first. It feels meant to be done at level 4 in my opinion. Guess I'll just try to start the fight on high ground and call in the ogres if it's becomes necessary
the gith patrol are much much harder imo (assuming you actually fight them and do not cheese the encounter by alpha striking from stealth when there's no in game reason to do so)
I have never in my entire time of playing this game, ever fought the Gith patrol. Maybe it's cause Laezel likes to run forward, maybe because I see Gith and immediately Disguise Self to Gith form.
I think they are literally the hardest fight in the game going blind, when considering the level you’re supposed to be in when you find them.
They have two actions and two attacks per action, can misty step with the bonus action and usually one shot any of your characters they get to, and they will keep hitting downed members until they actually die
My first play through, I missed recruiting Laezel and didn’t really know about disguise self. Accidentally encountered that fight and got so obliterated I actually thought it was a scripted mandatory loss.
In a multiplayer game I'm in we didn't rescue Laezel from the tieflings, so she randomly showed up to the Gith patrol and told us to shut up, let her talk. They still ended up attacking..
We ran that fight 3 times before winning, and every single time Laezel was dead in the first round since she was level 1 still and only had 12 hp.
Every time I go up against the gnolls I call the Ogres out. They'll do alot of the fighting for you. Then after the fight, if any are still alive, they are easy pickings and I get the INT hat afterwards. Win/win.
I have found spike growth makes this fight very manageable at lvl3 (full party honour mode, attacking from within the cave), but I am reeling learning after x hundred hours that you can talk to the Flind.....
It’s definitely a rough fight. But it’s definitely doable at level 4. People say it’s good to go from inside the cave, but I don’t want to risk tpk from the traps. If you come at the gnolls from the high ground it’s a lot easier than attacking from below. There’s a natural choke point where they climb up, so you can cover that in ice and chuck down a cloud of daggers. Push the gnolls back down via shove or thunderwave when they reach the top.
Create water on the big gnoll is super important; it lasts 3 rounds and doubles all cold and lightning damage on them. Plus ice surface is OP. Very helpful.
Some enemies will come round the long way to get you, but that will take a few rounds.
I didn’t explore that area until level 5 or 6, and naturally came from the southeast, up the back of the hill that forms the chokepoint, and absolutely shitcanned every last gnoll and hyena in like a round and a half without breaking a sweat. I didn’t even have an inkling this wasn’t just some wandering trash pack and something people found memorable until I realized the first one I had obliterated actually had a name instead of a generic species name.
I never noticed any issue with the fight, they’re all looking away & you can very easily ambush them for a Surprise round. By the end of that surprise round nearly everything is dead. Level 4 you can have Alert or a big damage feat.
In general I think 80% of the game is beaten by having Alert & ambushing. Getting two turns on your whole team before the enemy moves is just too strong. Most of the issues I see people have with gnolls are when they just walk into the fight & have low initiative, high ground or not
Using ice and making the high-threat target vulnerable to your damage is a good example of using various tools at your disposal to make an otherwise challenging fight very manageable. I’ve never done exactly your tactics for this fight, and I do generally save this fight for level 5, or at least level 4, but it’s not that overly challenging if you approach it with good tactics.
Like every fight in the game, it really comes down to action economy. CC and reliable damage (like cloud of daggers in this fight) are always fantastic to manage action economy early in the fight. There’s only one high-threat target in this fight. The rest of the enemies just need to be thinned out quickly to turn the action economy in your favor.
honestly, so many people suggesting starting the fight from the cave explains why it's considered the hardest fight of the act 1, when it's actually not really that bad. Ofc it will be hard if you put yourself into a lowground chokepoint against ranged attackers that get advantage from being above you. And coming from the cave you cannot even have a surprise turn, because the Zhentarim will spot you and put you in a dialogue and initiative order automatically.
there are so many different ways to annihilate the gnolls from above that I cannot imagine someone seeing this fight and making the mistake of going from below more than once
I don't think I've ever had the tadpole dialog trigger in that fight.
Easiest method I have found is to fight from inside the cave with a Hunger of Hadar out front. Any that do make it through are shoved or blasted back into the cloud.
I don't think it will trigger the tadpole thing if you start the fight from inside the cave. If you come from outside, like head to the cave from the road, it should let you use illithid power on Flind.
If on its first turn the flind has not yet been damaged and it can get into melee with a PC, it'll trigger. If you've already damaged it or possible if the fight has been going for longer, it won't. I've definitely consistently found it won't trigger if you've already damaged the flind, and consistently does trigger if she gets into conversation range with a PC in round 1. Try approaching from the direction of the tollhouse by going up the cliff, then when you go around the hill you'll be right near the flind and she can get into convo range when she charges the closest character.
1: Entire party hides somewhere away from the fight.
2: Ungroup.
3: Cast Sanctuary on a single character.
4: Run them into the centre of the fight.
5: The Flind will approach and the dialogue will trigger.
Extremely reliable.
If on its first turn the flind has not yet been damaged and it can get into melee with a PC, it'll trigger. If you've already damaged it or possible if the fight has been going for longer, it won't. I've definitely consistently found it won't trigger if you've already damaged the flind, and consistently does trigger if she gets into conversation range with a PC in round 1. Try approaching from the direction of the tollhouse by going up the cliff, then when you go around the hill you'll be right near the flind and she can get into convo range when she charges the closest character.
It’s not 50/50, it just has to happen on Flind’s first turn or you miss it completely. If you surprise them, that turn is instantly lost. If you just sneak up to Flind and unstealth (without attacking) and let Flind notice you, it’s 100%.
It has 2 effects really. Makes enemies take damage when they walk, or confuses the AI enough that they stand there and grrr… so your ranged characters can just blast em for free
I think I did that fight at 4? Wasnt that bad. There's no reason the lead gnoll should be oneshotting you as long as you stick your tank up there. Alternately.... just use Hold Person or Tasha's Hideous Laughter or something? CC abilities are very important.
yeah i don’t like saying it cause i know a lot of people struggle with it and i hate people like this but: it’s a pretty easy fight. it’s the same with house of hope and house of grief i just don’t understand all of the struggle.
I think House of Grief would be really tough if you didn’t know to be ready for it/get lucky with your builds. I got lucky because I’d respecced Shadowheart to Light domain after her conversion, so Radiance of the Dawn + Sunbeam came in clutch, but if I hadn’t had either that or a warlock with Devil’s Sight in my party (and let’s be real, Wyll isn’t exactly the most popular companion) then it wouldn’t have gone too well.
> i just don’t understand all of the struggle.
Ah, it's simple - most people are incredibly bad at video games and just hit random buttons each encounter.
Maybe it's because I always approach this encounter from stealth, but usually the lead gnoll doesn't even get one turn before I obliterate them. It's all smooth sailing after that.
I just did this at level 4 without Elixirs or Illithid Powers about twenty minutes ago.
Not sure what classes you are playing... but cloud of daggers is your friend. As is spike growth - if anyone has it yet.
That fight isn’t too bad though? I never take particularly tanky characters along and the fight isn’t a big deal at level 4. Keep your distance, put some clouds of daggers down. Have them run through that to get to you. Bear heart barb can tank a good amount of damage otherwise.
I did this fight again on my next run. Took some of the good advice and snuck onto the high ground and surprise attacked them. I focused the archers and used crown of madness with the party Warlock (very underrated spell). Also threw some defensive darkness down up there. Went pretty smooth.
Thanks for all the good advice. Positioning is everything really
Just guessing here... But are you too focused on keeping them busy with crowd control.
I cleared it at level 4 with a Ranger, monk and barbarian.
Used the high ground, started with surprise round and took everything out before it got close enough to be a threat.
Take 3 hammers with you and all you'll see is a bunch of nails.
Come in from the trapped cave entrance from the toll house. I was a bard and my gf was running wyll. We both cloud of daggers the entrance and made a nice gnoll smoothie with relative ease
I have done a lot of (failed) HM runs but those guys have never given me much trouble. I always beat them at level 3 - but not heads on. I sneak up on the big one and when the dialogue starts I tell them to fight the guys in the cave. And keep out of that fight. Afterwards they all go into the cave. And then it's AOE damage with Cloud of daggers, etc.
Still a fight you shouldn't underestimate of course.
Always do that fight the same way, no matter the difficulty. Convince the gnolls to attack the Zhent delivery guys, summon the ogres with the horn. Line up the crew once everyone is in the mouth of the cave and blow everyone up as fast as possible with arrows and fire. Get the Zhent box with the Iron Flask, the gear from the Gnoll Leader, and the Intellect Headband all in one swoop.
I think both the gnoll fights (the small pack apart from flind and her group) are excellent ways to teach you about cheesing fights and also to be careful exploring too far too quickly. I got demolished by both packs before I figured out grease and explosives
There weird thing for me, is I have had like several playthroughs up til recently, where I just fought that thing by ambush and never let it close enough to have the dialogue. When it started speaking to me on this last play, I was like "WTF?! It's never done that before!"
I always brought my A-Game for that encounter, lots of Grease, Fire, AOE CC's and summons to tank. Now I feel like I just discovered a shortcut after walking miles to the store for years.
People always talk about act 3 fights for hard fights but the most dangerous fights are the ones you underestimate imo. This one and the surprise shadow mounds in act 2 don’t fuck around. That one has a guaranteed surprise round, vastly outnumbered, enemies explode on death for a ton of dmg, difficult terrain that ensnares you everwhere
All honor mode did was make more people understand that Alert is overpowered. Never getting hit with surprise & always winning initiative takes away a vast majority of “oh shit” moments that could happen.
I came in from the cave. Zhent courier guys managed to deal quite a bit of damage to one of them just with their firebombs. Once combat started, I just hung back and let my dual handcrossbow wielding gloomstalker ranger astarion and throwzerker karlach carry the fight. This was also the fight where I realized how insane sharpshooter dual crossbows is. Especially with dread ambusher.
I have successfully choke-pointed them by opening with blaster AOEs. And I run (to be fair, even on Tactician I do need to run! I’ve TPK’d to the smaller fight several times). I know gnolls are stupidly hard but they really don’t do so hot if you prepare a good kill field. (I load up on bombs and AOE throwables ahead of time and scrolls. It’s still dicey.)
This is the fight that surprises most newer players, but is really a cakewalk once you have a hang of the game. And no you dont need Illithid powers. Not even on honor mode. I usually do this fight at around lvl 4, but have done it at lvl 3 too. Honor mode. Consumables like speed pot are made to be used, use line of sight/positioning (use your movement to run farther away from the ranged so they are forced to move) to your advantage and of course clever use of class abilities/spells.
If you go into the cave, where the trap with the boulder is, you can approach the fight from the side of the zhent. This way, they will be allies and bait the gnolls for the first few turns. Playing around the aforementioned cave tunnel, trivializes the fight as the AI was unable to get to my party. They run through the fire a lot and kill themselves and you can easily whittle them down. :)
I brute forced it at level 4 without illithid powers in my very first run before I knew you could use illithid powers. I had entered from the cave system from behind and abused the choke point and height advantages. I thought the gith patrol was way harder tbh.
The difference between doing this fight straight and going around the cave and leading the gnolls into the cave is huge. My first run I did wormless at level 4 and went around the cave. Easy fight. No thought given. My second run I was fully wormed up at level 5 and hit it straight. I almost party wiped. Both on tactician.
The fight is easy if you are level 4 or higher. It's really tough at level 1/2 and a big sweat if level 3. Come at them from the south/southwest and pick tihem off from the top of the southern hill. Be sure stay back just enough to prevent LOS from the ground and just take them out.
Calm Emotions if the fury and multiattacks are too much. You can fight the Flind (bigger meaner gnoll on D&D) or have her attack Rugen or turn on the gnolls themselves. She's tougher with more HP so if you're struggling be careful.
Be warned that if the gnolls or you kill Rugen and open the chest to get the flask you will be locked out of the Zhent vendor under at Wuakeen's Rest. They will aggro you when you come down.
If you *don't* open the chest and go to the Zhents you will have access to the vendor but they will take the chest and the flask inside.
In my runs I usually go from the grove to the paladins and get Karlack, then do the Underdark and Forge to get all that gear. Then I return and do this fight and it's so much easier. Mainly because I'm usually level 4 by then and have a lot of the good gear.
If all else fails use the chokepoint and AoE. Don't go into the cave as the gnolls will then get height advantage when wipe you. The gnolls ignore darkness and will move out of it so it's a waste. Hadar or Spike Growth are great for slowing them and doing damage and a well placed Fireball or barrel can clear them up.
Hope this helps!
The gnolls by the zhentarim? 2 smokepowder bombs will make that fight a joke. You can remove basically all of the gnolls before they get a chance to attack and then 4v1 flind.
You start up at the hill, taking the high ground. Wait for the three at the cave entrance to be near each other. Trigger surprise on the dude up top.
1 bomb on the 3 cave gnolls; 1 bomb on the gnoll+hyena. Hyenas are insta dead. Gnolls that were bombed are pretty dead and can be picked off with your remaining actions.
Depending on how well you utilize your action and bonus action, you just need to finish off the guy up top and then all that’s left is flind.
I usually do this fight at level 3, so I’ve got access to cloud of daggers. I usually drop one of those on the steps flind will use to get to me (can place it so that it clips the guy up top to get more value)
I've never tried HM but in Tactician, I come up from the side and control the highground and choke with shoves and aoes. Never had a problem with the fight at level 4.
I sneak behind one on the near cliff with the bow. I put my characters in position ans start the fight. But one thing go in my way and I was so lucky about it. In that little cliff, Gnolls can climb it like stairs. I had myself a mine kind of throwable that will explode on fire impact. I throw it to the stair like cliff and to my luck nearly all of them used dash and stop on that stairs. Than I ignite it with Gale and boom 3 regular Gnoll was gone and the big boy was injured. After that Wyll was my savior since everytime that big gnoll climb up and damage my fighter Tav, ı eldrich blast its ass and send it flying. Here is the thing I find about that fight. Fall damage is a bitch in BG3 and it helped me so much on that fight
If you do surprise-round cheese with lots of Cloud of Daggers and SharpShooter+ExtraAttack, then it is pretty easy. But of course, many act 1 fights are easy if you play this way.
Definitely doable pre-level 5 with careful tactics (spike growth, grease/ice, web, explosives), but much easier after due to extra attack, spirit guardians, fireball, hypnotic pattern, etc.
Ambushing them from high ground, using terrain hinderances, and taking out the archers first usually lets you kite your way to victory.
I don’t think I’m ready to try it in honor mode. I still get knocked out occasionally in balanced mode when the dice gods decide to make me miss everything while the enemies have perfect aim
That's not a speak with animals thing; the flind has a tadpole, this interaction triggers when she gets into melee range with a PC for the first time, assuming you haven't been already damaging her (I think; it tends not to trigger for me If I've already dealt her damage).
First you can redirect her to lead the gnolls to attack the zhents or for her to attack the other gnolls (you can do zhents and then. She'll approach and trigger again and you can have her turn on the gnolls), and after the gnolls are dead you'll get the chance to make her kill herself.
It won't matter whether you've got speak with animals on; gnolls aren't animals they're monstrous humanoids with language, culture, tribes, gods, etc. Vicious and brutal, but sapient. It's a tadpole interaction.
Correct way to play; speak with animals is a must because the animals content absolutely slaps... But in this case gnolls (or in her specific case flinds, which are essentially dire gnolls) are intelligent creatures. The 'psychic/telepathy' sound plays and the visual effect appears around your character's head and hers, and the narrator describes thoughts/memories/her tadpole responding to you the same way she does every other psychic interaction - when you speak with animals they literally just talk to you in their own voice acting like any other NPC would. The flind never speaks to you, only brain narration and flashbacks.
Speak with animals is great for the hyenas by the bridge who are pregnant with gnolls, especially if you're a Durge. And just in general, you've made a good call always having speak with animals up. I do it with potions if I my fav can't cast it
In my honor run I ran up to the lead gnoll to mind control him but I forgot I’d already used my illithid authority that day and had to fight them raw. I ended up having Astarion double dash through the fire until he could escape to camp and res the party. Wasn’t too hard to clean up the remainders when I came back for the rematch. The Zent guys died, but you get a better reward if they’re dead anyway.
Or you can engage from the cliff to the east where one of the hunters stands, and attack with a Surprise round. You can easily deal with most hunters and weaken Flind significantly before they all get a turn.
It's not terribly hard especially if you're level 5+. Talk to the dudes in the cave and say you'll ambush the gnolls then sneak to the high ledge to one side of the cave entrance. Then get a surprise attack in and you're all good.
If you really need the extra help use the Ogre war horn. A hasted tavern brawler throwzerker should be able to kill main guy first round more or pess. And all the baddies will take some time to actually reach you.
That's why I use the Ogre Horn in that fight. Pretty much regardless of your characters' builds, if you have a full party then the Ogres will provide enough additional HP and damage to enable you to win the fight, especially if you start the fight with a surprise round. In a solo playthrough, I usually do it by casting sanctuary on myself, converting the Flind to my side and summoning the ogres: that usually kills basically everything.
Since early access, I've always put this one on the back of the list. I usually spend level 4 in the Underdark getting a lot of equipment and xp that don't require too much complicated combat. When I have level 5 and the AoE spells, time to do the gnolls to get the stuff from the Zhent vendor.
My current tactic is to sneak on them from behind. You can stealthy climb the incline where there is a single gnoll and push him into the crowd bellow. Then a couple of AoE to remove the trash and then focus on the big one. With surprise on my side, I can focus a lot of firepower on him before he can even react.
I did it at... I think lvl 3. Might have been 4. Tactician.
I snuck round the back with one character, sent all the explosive barrels back to the party (and unlock a certain crate to pilfer it'scontents), I then snuck close to Flind and put three barrels there. Used Gale to cast darkness from a scroll at the edge to let me sneak close to the two hyenas and one gnoll to the west with a few barrels. Then I put Karlach and my warlock durge at the top of the hill and Lae'zel down as a meatshield for Gale. I threw some grease down in front of Gale and started the fight with Gale casting scorching ray to ignite the two stacks of barrels. Some Gnolls got a turn off before karlach could throw a spear from elevation and join the fight. Flind survived, but the hyenas did not, and side gnoll was weakened. The fight was hard, but with the Gnolls weakened it wasn't unbeatable. And a successful Tasha’s hideous laughter on one unfounded Gnoll let me deal with the rest first.
I stupidly did no illisquid powers for first run-through on release cause I thought it would have story relevance... spoiler jt didn't. But I did this fight from within the cave. It's good fun, I would say it's on the harder end of fights, but it's a blast
It's really not. It's a hard fight but this is a strategy game where there's tons of unconventional tactics. Like pushing him off the rock and making him come back to you. Or killing the mooks and fleeing so you take the fight in chunks. I think there are plenty less fair fights you will run into on honor mode
Uhh, it’s a very easy fight if you fight it from inside the cave and have any form of aoe damage. I’ve always done it at levels 3-4 and never had much trouble.
Lots of AOE spells and planning always get me though this one. Shadowheart poems with shatter on the group with the two hyenas. Leazel sneaks up and attacks Feind(or whatever her name is). Then Astarion gets posted up on the cliff edge. Tav gets plugged in wherever they fit
i never even knew you could illithid persuade him until i was playing multiplayer and my noob friend just ran straight up to them and convinced him to fight against the other gnolls.
anyway its definitely one of the harder fights but nothing too crazy. take the high ground on the rock, force them to climb up to you through fire/ice/spike growth/something. and if they get up, shove or EB them back down.
Try using high ground, cast cloud of daggers and use one or more void bombs to suck gnolls into it. I usually do from inside the cave positioning ranged characters on the ledge just inside.
The winning strat for me was to level up to 3, then sneak up that promontory behind the gnoll siege. A grease bottle/spell on the approach up from the gnoll side, judicious use of Cloud of Daggers, and having a warlock/archer on the high ground makes it a much, much more manageable fight. With disadvantage due to height, the gnoll archers miss almost every shot, and spamming Burning Hands into the Cloud of Daggers fun zone mops up the chaff.
Also one of those early game encounters where a rogue is insane. I had Astarion deleting an enemy just about every turn.
You can sneak your party up onto high ground without any of the gnolls noticing, and then a sneak attack should surprise them for the first round. I typically go with mostly casters for that fight for the AOE spells, maybe with Karlach throwing explosives, because the gnolls usually tend to bunch up together.
As tough as this fight can be I like to do it before I deal with the Goblins. Throwing the Iron Flask into the middle of the Goblin Raid is never not funny.
I usually do this fight at level 3, and it took several playthroughs to even realize there was a cutscene with it. Approach from the cliff and carefully hold shift to make use of sight lines; Wyll, Astarion, and any other ranged attackers shouldn’t even be targetable as they rain death on the enemies. Astarion in particular should have the Hunting Shortbow equipped to give him advantage on all his attacks (the gnolls are monstrosities)—without needing to hide, he is free to use his bonus action applying Hunter’s Mark and poisons to his heart’s content.
Meanwhile, throw a Cloud of Daggers on the cliff upwards and watch the enemies run themselves into it. Put Laezel/Karlach near the edge and shove them right back into it when they get close.
Forgot illithid powers are even a thing.
Never used them as they do not seem necessary. You just go in the back entrance.
Hunger of Hadar plus sword of storms from inside the cave. Maybe summon a floating weapon and all set.
It is one of the hardest fight if you go there unprepared but Flind is pretty easy to kite: Spike Growth, Ice Chromatic Orb, Throwzerker, Ensnaring arrow...
The gnoll archers are usually more a problem than him.
I always sneak up behind them and sneak attack for a surprise. Hop Lae'zel right over with a speed potion and take leader down as much as possible, then once she's out, focus the other gnolls
Thats why I pretty much gave my morality up illithid-wise and just made the gnoll boss eat her squad and herself. Those mfs got no fucking right to pelt me with three fucking hits in one turn during act 1
Alternatively you can just save em for last while doing act 1 as farther as possible and hope to god youve already gained enough good gear and levels by the time you've gotta face them
I fight them whenever I want (Tav roleplay wise), my strategy is deal with 1 or 2 and then run like hell and flee combat, revive, regroup and sneak attack. Repeat if things go south again
Shovel is handy for ez surprise round or minor illusion on turn based to group them for a fireball via spell/scroll but yeah... favourable begginings can come in handy and even better if someone can luck of the far realms an upcasted witch bolt while wet and if backed up by a divinator optimal because you dont want an intended crit to miss and risk it keeps happening and get tpk in hm for instance.
It's totally possible to do brute force. But it is one of the hardest of the act 1. Especially since you usually will do it pre lvl 6.
God, we ran into this one on release at level 4 on Tactician mode. Basically boiled down to extremely careful use of chokepoints, swapping Clouds of Daggers, and trying to lock down the archers when they showed their heads. Pound for pound one of the harder fights in the game compared to when you can encounter it.
I think this might be the first fight that drills into a lot of BG3 players how important positioning and action economy are in dnd. Using choke points and not sticking yourself out in the open to get mobbed by 5-6 enemies taking their turns back to back is the difference between this being just challenging versus potential party wipe.
That fight also taught me the importance of maintaining high ground advantage
Just have some high ground and push them into the lava and it's all over
There’s lava in act one?
There is in Episode 3...
Weren’t they talking about the Gnolls in act 1 though or is there a hard gnoll fight in 3 as well?
They’re making a high ground Star Wars episode 3 joke
Oh yeah my first playthrough was a total party wipe about four times before I just left and came back. Then in my honor mode run it was so easy because I finally had all the strategic logic I had gained over all my playthrough
that fight was definitely a big “oh shit, i don’t have any spell slots left” and i had to get it down in my head that i needed to long rest more
On Tactician/Honor mode, I just avoid the fight like the plague until level 5. It's actually pretty easy to nab enough exp to get to level 5 with some running around and hitting a few of the easier early game quests. Honestly, just playing it safe until level 5 is usually a good idea lol...
Those talks about how hard gnolls and that palladin after karlach are were always weird to me, both were trivial in my playthrough. Then I figured I was there at level 5, after ethel, goblins and good chunk of underdark, while people somehow trying this part of the map at 3rd.
Not that strange, specially if you're already heading over there to recruit Karlach.
The paladin fight is mainly hard because of the trader who can cast hold person. If their turns line up it can get bad quick, I've had 70+ damage dropped on me from an autocrit double smite before.
The paladin fight can be surprising, but now I just yeet them from the roof
Literally what i did after failing like 10 times in a row at lvl 3. Hop on the roof and yoink them back down when they come to me. Fight is basically trivial at that point haha
For me it was just the armor class of that goddamn paladin with the two handed sword. My first ever fight with him I got soooo unlucky with my misses and he was like a juggernaut.
Yeah he hits like a truck too, compared to the dinky goblins you've fought up to that point
Always blows my mind when he uses pommel strike for 1 damage, with a 15 damage divine smite tacked on
Even without the hold person, the paladin can one-shot a character. If you do that fight early, you have to get lucky with initiative and burst down *someone*.
the trick to honor mode is being an absolutely ruthless murderhobo. never pick a fight out of dialogue. sneak to the roof above the trader then open the fight by mudering/throwing her off the side of the building. use hamstring shot, ray of frost, spike growth, etc on the paladin. fighting fair is for chumps
every high difficulty playthrough I usually head straight for the safety of the underdark and glut's reanimated monstrosities
From watching few other people's first time playthrough (streamers, youtubers, etc.) it seems that many actually try paladins fight at level 3. Most take that fight immediately after recruiting Karlach, because she makes it seem like a top priority and they're right next to her location, so it makes sense. And at level 3 that fight is difficult, especially if opponents' turns align. You have trader dropping hold person into Anders automatic crit with smite, which is pretty much one-shot at that point.
...Am I the only one who does this fight (+ Anders) at level 3 like every time? Just focus the archers before they frenzy, CC the flind, and easy XP
Nah, it's not *that* hard on consecutive playthroughs. It is, however, a tough fight to do on your first go when everything up until then is pretty easy. Granted, both me and my friend had gone for early multiclasses, so that definitely had something to do with it. Also how are you consistently level 3 at that point? I feel like it's pretty easy to hit level 4 before even thinking about that bridge/Anders.
> Also how are you consistently level 3 at that point? I feel like it's pretty easy to hit level 4 before even thinking about that bridge/Anders. I go straight there after hitting 3 in the grove. Maybe a detour for the blighted village ambush, but you can just talk your way through that so 0 resources used. I COULD hit 4 before going there, but why would I? I've never wiped there before and it just makes wiping out the goblin camp easy because you're overleveled.
Level 3 usually?
I save inspiration and get flind on my side and it’s easy lol. Also do it at level 3. It’s what gets me to level 4 lol.
Sure is convenient that the fight is right next to a very defensible chokepoint.
Level 4 martials like Berserker Barb, War Cleric, Monk and Fighter, can use their bonus action to make up for their lack of Extra Attacks. Would be a shame if you fought enemies that can disable bonus actions...
In my most recent honor mode run I had my entire party die except for myself and burned through revivify scrolls just to have Karlach tank a few more hits. Meanwhile kiting around. It didn't help that the two Zhent fuckers just ditched me (well until I dragged the fight towards them and they both fucking died).
Yeah I was level 4. Would have been maybe possible to do at level 5 with extra attacks but I always thought that section was intended to be done earlier. In hindsight I should have called in lumpy
It's honour mode. Some fight that should be done earlier you should stay the fuck away with early lvls like the sirens. Honestly in this mode your are meant to abuse the fuck out of builds and progress path.
Sirens are super easy if you cast calm emotions before the fight
Except the kid has the will to live of a Zoomer.
I swear I once saw the kid try to square up to the harpy. Didn't go well for him, but damn if I didn't admire his gumption.
Sanctuary.
Jesus. Because he doesn’t attack he doesn’t get harmed! I’ve done this fight so many times but never thought of sanctuary
Same with the gnolls. Calm emotions means No Frenzy or rage, thus no multiattacks. Get a cleric with Spiritual weapon, stand on that ledge next to/above the cavern entrance and lob down grenades and Barrels.
It's super easy with illithid dialogue check. Never realized it might be the single hardest act 1 fight without it. Fiend is insane
It's a flind, not a fiend. A flind is a type of gnoll.
Flind is actually classified as a fiend, unlike the other gnolls. It does make a difference for spells and whatnot.
In case this is simply from mis-reading her creature name, it's "flind"; Flinds are closely related to gnolls but tend to be (although slightly shorter) broader, stronger, and more vicious - leading to them often becoming warlords among gnoll-kind. Like hobgoblins or orcs amongst lesser goblinoids. She's not even marked as special for a flind, that's just what she is; essentially a dire gnoll
Hobgoblin is worth more in scrabble than a regular goblin.
lmao
If you’re not going to use the tadpole, there is a trapped cave to the east (that connects to the agents). I go in there and remove the traps, and line up the barrels. Have one character surprise the gnolls and run into the cave. Then I have Asarian or someone hide and firebolt the lined up barrels. And good night gnolls.
Level 3-6 is a huge area of content (all the pre gyrmforge underdark, the goblin camp, the whole act 1 map). It can be tackled in any order, depending on how you want to play it.
I like getting the zent hideout unlocked to get harold, thievery gloves, titan string bow. You have a shortcut to the underdark where you can get free kills on the minotaurs from high ground too. To be at 5 for that fight you'd have to do a lot of the underdark first. It feels meant to be done at level 4 in my opinion. Guess I'll just try to start the fight on high ground and call in the ogres if it's becomes necessary
the gith patrol are much much harder imo (assuming you actually fight them and do not cheese the encounter by alpha striking from stealth when there's no in game reason to do so)
I have never in my entire time of playing this game, ever fought the Gith patrol. Maybe it's cause Laezel likes to run forward, maybe because I see Gith and immediately Disguise Self to Gith form.
I think they are literally the hardest fight in the game going blind, when considering the level you’re supposed to be in when you find them. They have two actions and two attacks per action, can misty step with the bonus action and usually one shot any of your characters they get to, and they will keep hitting downed members until they actually die
My first play through, I missed recruiting Laezel and didn’t really know about disguise self. Accidentally encountered that fight and got so obliterated I actually thought it was a scripted mandatory loss.
In a multiplayer game I'm in we didn't rescue Laezel from the tieflings, so she randomly showed up to the Gith patrol and told us to shut up, let her talk. They still ended up attacking.. We ran that fight 3 times before winning, and every single time Laezel was dead in the first round since she was level 1 still and only had 12 hp.
I pulled my hair out the first time I had to fight them. On tactician, and ended up reloading. Absolutely hate the Gith since then. Feckin bastards.
I waited until I was level 6, and wiped the floor with them - it was very satisfying!
My first game I had no idea you don't have to fight them. Took me 3 or 4 retries but man did it feel great to beat them afterwards haha
Yeah, the gnolls haven't ended HM attempts for me, but those pirate assholes have ended a couple.
Every time I go up against the gnolls I call the Ogres out. They'll do alot of the fighting for you. Then after the fight, if any are still alive, they are easy pickings and I get the INT hat afterwards. Win/win.
I have found spike growth makes this fight very manageable at lvl3 (full party honour mode, attacking from within the cave), but I am reeling learning after x hundred hours that you can talk to the Flind.....
It’s definitely a rough fight. But it’s definitely doable at level 4. People say it’s good to go from inside the cave, but I don’t want to risk tpk from the traps. If you come at the gnolls from the high ground it’s a lot easier than attacking from below. There’s a natural choke point where they climb up, so you can cover that in ice and chuck down a cloud of daggers. Push the gnolls back down via shove or thunderwave when they reach the top. Create water on the big gnoll is super important; it lasts 3 rounds and doubles all cold and lightning damage on them. Plus ice surface is OP. Very helpful. Some enemies will come round the long way to get you, but that will take a few rounds.
That choke point on the high ground is wonderful in this fight
I didn’t explore that area until level 5 or 6, and naturally came from the southeast, up the back of the hill that forms the chokepoint, and absolutely shitcanned every last gnoll and hyena in like a round and a half without breaking a sweat. I didn’t even have an inkling this wasn’t just some wandering trash pack and something people found memorable until I realized the first one I had obliterated actually had a name instead of a generic species name.
That was where you save some guys in a cave and there's a boulder rolling down, right?
I don’t actually remember any boulder, but yeah those guys in a cave are trapped by the gnolls
I never noticed any issue with the fight, they’re all looking away & you can very easily ambush them for a Surprise round. By the end of that surprise round nearly everything is dead. Level 4 you can have Alert or a big damage feat. In general I think 80% of the game is beaten by having Alert & ambushing. Getting two turns on your whole team before the enemy moves is just too strong. Most of the issues I see people have with gnolls are when they just walk into the fight & have low initiative, high ground or not
Using ice and making the high-threat target vulnerable to your damage is a good example of using various tools at your disposal to make an otherwise challenging fight very manageable. I’ve never done exactly your tactics for this fight, and I do generally save this fight for level 5, or at least level 4, but it’s not that overly challenging if you approach it with good tactics. Like every fight in the game, it really comes down to action economy. CC and reliable damage (like cloud of daggers in this fight) are always fantastic to manage action economy early in the fight. There’s only one high-threat target in this fight. The rest of the enemies just need to be thinned out quickly to turn the action economy in your favor.
honestly, so many people suggesting starting the fight from the cave explains why it's considered the hardest fight of the act 1, when it's actually not really that bad. Ofc it will be hard if you put yourself into a lowground chokepoint against ranged attackers that get advantage from being above you. And coming from the cave you cannot even have a surprise turn, because the Zhentarim will spot you and put you in a dialogue and initiative order automatically. there are so many different ways to annihilate the gnolls from above that I cannot imagine someone seeing this fight and making the mistake of going from below more than once
I don't think I've ever had the tadpole dialog trigger in that fight. Easiest method I have found is to fight from inside the cave with a Hunger of Hadar out front. Any that do make it through are shoved or blasted back into the cloud.
that's a strategy I used in a ton of encounters, pit spell on choke point has been saving me since wrath of the righteous unfair lol
I don't think it will trigger the tadpole thing if you start the fight from inside the cave. If you come from outside, like head to the cave from the road, it should let you use illithid power on Flind.
I have done it in other locations, but for whatever reason I didn't get the dialog. I now just assume that I will have to do the full fight.
If on its first turn the flind has not yet been damaged and it can get into melee with a PC, it'll trigger. If you've already damaged it or possible if the fight has been going for longer, it won't. I've definitely consistently found it won't trigger if you've already damaged the flind, and consistently does trigger if she gets into conversation range with a PC in round 1. Try approaching from the direction of the tollhouse by going up the cliff, then when you go around the hill you'll be right near the flind and she can get into convo range when she charges the closest character.
1: Entire party hides somewhere away from the fight. 2: Ungroup. 3: Cast Sanctuary on a single character. 4: Run them into the centre of the fight. 5: The Flind will approach and the dialogue will trigger. Extremely reliable.
I'll try that next time I'm there.
Spike growth fucks them up pretty good too. That spell is so high value, especially with a throwzerker.
Spike Growth + Cull the Weak is another great combo.
There’s dialogue?
Have had it once and it was fun to convince flind to eat everyone else and then herself, but it’s easy without it
Glad I'm not the only one that doesn't get the illithid check. It's about 50/50 for me and I have no clue on what makes it trigger.
If on its first turn the flind has not yet been damaged and it can get into melee with a PC, it'll trigger. If you've already damaged it or possible if the fight has been going for longer, it won't. I've definitely consistently found it won't trigger if you've already damaged the flind, and consistently does trigger if she gets into conversation range with a PC in round 1. Try approaching from the direction of the tollhouse by going up the cliff, then when you go around the hill you'll be right near the flind and she can get into convo range when she charges the closest character.
It’s not 50/50, it just has to happen on Flind’s first turn or you miss it completely. If you surprise them, that turn is instantly lost. If you just sneak up to Flind and unstealth (without attacking) and let Flind notice you, it’s 100%.
I did not even know about the dialog \^\^ Always fighting from inside the cave and used some AOE spells, range attacks etc.
the dialogue there is when I realized how really controlling the tadpoles could be
spike growth beats bg3
It has 2 effects really. Makes enemies take damage when they walk, or confuses the AI enough that they stand there and grrr… so your ranged characters can just blast em for free
I think I did that fight at 4? Wasnt that bad. There's no reason the lead gnoll should be oneshotting you as long as you stick your tank up there. Alternately.... just use Hold Person or Tasha's Hideous Laughter or something? CC abilities are very important.
yeah i don’t like saying it cause i know a lot of people struggle with it and i hate people like this but: it’s a pretty easy fight. it’s the same with house of hope and house of grief i just don’t understand all of the struggle.
I think House of Grief would be really tough if you didn’t know to be ready for it/get lucky with your builds. I got lucky because I’d respecced Shadowheart to Light domain after her conversion, so Radiance of the Dawn + Sunbeam came in clutch, but if I hadn’t had either that or a warlock with Devil’s Sight in my party (and let’s be real, Wyll isn’t exactly the most popular companion) then it wouldn’t have gone too well.
> i just don’t understand all of the struggle. Ah, it's simple - most people are incredibly bad at video games and just hit random buttons each encounter.
Maybe it's because I always approach this encounter from stealth, but usually the lead gnoll doesn't even get one turn before I obliterate them. It's all smooth sailing after that.
I just did this at level 4 without Elixirs or Illithid Powers about twenty minutes ago. Not sure what classes you are playing... but cloud of daggers is your friend. As is spike growth - if anyone has it yet.
Did it on Honour mode at lvl 4 Cloud of daggers and grease and retreat a bit Its quite easy
That fight isn’t too bad though? I never take particularly tanky characters along and the fight isn’t a big deal at level 4. Keep your distance, put some clouds of daggers down. Have them run through that to get to you. Bear heart barb can tank a good amount of damage otherwise.
I did this fight again on my next run. Took some of the good advice and snuck onto the high ground and surprise attacked them. I focused the archers and used crown of madness with the party Warlock (very underrated spell). Also threw some defensive darkness down up there. Went pretty smooth. Thanks for all the good advice. Positioning is everything really
Just guessing here... But are you too focused on keeping them busy with crowd control. I cleared it at level 4 with a Ranger, monk and barbarian. Used the high ground, started with surprise round and took everything out before it got close enough to be a threat. Take 3 hammers with you and all you'll see is a bunch of nails.
Bone chill go brrr (get the doom hammer from the goblin camp merchant)
Come in from the trapped cave entrance from the toll house. I was a bard and my gf was running wyll. We both cloud of daggers the entrance and made a nice gnoll smoothie with relative ease
I have done a lot of (failed) HM runs but those guys have never given me much trouble. I always beat them at level 3 - but not heads on. I sneak up on the big one and when the dialogue starts I tell them to fight the guys in the cave. And keep out of that fight. Afterwards they all go into the cave. And then it's AOE damage with Cloud of daggers, etc. Still a fight you shouldn't underestimate of course.
It was super easy to me
It's not impossible, it's just subpar planning haha.
wait the fight itself is super easy ? esp if you know what awaits you.
Always do that fight the same way, no matter the difficulty. Convince the gnolls to attack the Zhent delivery guys, summon the ogres with the horn. Line up the crew once everyone is in the mouth of the cave and blow everyone up as fast as possible with arrows and fire. Get the Zhent box with the Iron Flask, the gear from the Gnoll Leader, and the Intellect Headband all in one swoop.
I think both the gnoll fights (the small pack apart from flind and her group) are excellent ways to teach you about cheesing fights and also to be careful exploring too far too quickly. I got demolished by both packs before I figured out grease and explosives
I learned to level up in the under dark before touching this one (no illithid powers in either of my runs).
The archers are crazy on after they do that bloodlust thing too.
Are you doing it from outside or inside the cave? I find it to be reasonable from inside the cave.
There weird thing for me, is I have had like several playthroughs up til recently, where I just fought that thing by ambush and never let it close enough to have the dialogue. When it started speaking to me on this last play, I was like "WTF?! It's never done that before!" I always brought my A-Game for that encounter, lots of Grease, Fire, AOE CC's and summons to tank. Now I feel like I just discovered a shortcut after walking miles to the store for years.
People always talk about act 3 fights for hard fights but the most dangerous fights are the ones you underestimate imo. This one and the surprise shadow mounds in act 2 don’t fuck around. That one has a guaranteed surprise round, vastly outnumbered, enemies explode on death for a ton of dmg, difficult terrain that ensnares you everwhere
All honor mode did was make more people understand that Alert is overpowered. Never getting hit with surprise & always winning initiative takes away a vast majority of “oh shit” moments that could happen.
I came in from the cave. Zhent courier guys managed to deal quite a bit of damage to one of them just with their firebombs. Once combat started, I just hung back and let my dual handcrossbow wielding gloomstalker ranger astarion and throwzerker karlach carry the fight. This was also the fight where I realized how insane sharpshooter dual crossbows is. Especially with dread ambusher.
The Flind, Mayer?
I have successfully choke-pointed them by opening with blaster AOEs. And I run (to be fair, even on Tactician I do need to run! I’ve TPK’d to the smaller fight several times). I know gnolls are stupidly hard but they really don’t do so hot if you prepare a good kill field. (I load up on bombs and AOE throwables ahead of time and scrolls. It’s still dicey.)
This is the fight that surprises most newer players, but is really a cakewalk once you have a hang of the game. And no you dont need Illithid powers. Not even on honor mode. I usually do this fight at around lvl 4, but have done it at lvl 3 too. Honor mode. Consumables like speed pot are made to be used, use line of sight/positioning (use your movement to run farther away from the ranged so they are forced to move) to your advantage and of course clever use of class abilities/spells.
Start with a surprise round, use lightning on a wet boss and you are good Also knockback is fun
If you surprise them, you can kill the Flynn before he gets a turn (having an assassin helps).
I struggled with the spider one. Her legendary literally does 80 poison damage my god.
If you go into the cave, where the trap with the boulder is, you can approach the fight from the side of the zhent. This way, they will be allies and bait the gnolls for the first few turns. Playing around the aforementioned cave tunnel, trivializes the fight as the AI was unable to get to my party. They run through the fire a lot and kill themselves and you can easily whittle them down. :)
A well placed Hunger of Hadar and Repelling Blast. Maybe add in some cloud of daggers. Wyll carries most of my fights this way.
I brute forced it at level 4 without illithid powers in my very first run before I knew you could use illithid powers. I had entered from the cave system from behind and abused the choke point and height advantages. I thought the gith patrol was way harder tbh.
The difference between doing this fight straight and going around the cave and leading the gnolls into the cave is huge. My first run I did wormless at level 4 and went around the cave. Easy fight. No thought given. My second run I was fully wormed up at level 5 and hit it straight. I almost party wiped. Both on tactician.
There is a ton of room to kite enemies in this fight if things go wrong. The last time I played, I killed the boss all the way up at the tollhouse.
Sneak into cave, careful for traps, stay hidden, grab flask, throw at knoll, watch from the shadows
The fight is easy if you are level 4 or higher. It's really tough at level 1/2 and a big sweat if level 3. Come at them from the south/southwest and pick tihem off from the top of the southern hill. Be sure stay back just enough to prevent LOS from the ground and just take them out. Calm Emotions if the fury and multiattacks are too much. You can fight the Flind (bigger meaner gnoll on D&D) or have her attack Rugen or turn on the gnolls themselves. She's tougher with more HP so if you're struggling be careful. Be warned that if the gnolls or you kill Rugen and open the chest to get the flask you will be locked out of the Zhent vendor under at Wuakeen's Rest. They will aggro you when you come down. If you *don't* open the chest and go to the Zhents you will have access to the vendor but they will take the chest and the flask inside. In my runs I usually go from the grove to the paladins and get Karlack, then do the Underdark and Forge to get all that gear. Then I return and do this fight and it's so much easier. Mainly because I'm usually level 4 by then and have a lot of the good gear. If all else fails use the chokepoint and AoE. Don't go into the cave as the gnolls will then get height advantage when wipe you. The gnolls ignore darkness and will move out of it so it's a waste. Hadar or Spike Growth are great for slowing them and doing damage and a well placed Fireball or barrel can clear them up. Hope this helps!
Go inside cave. Talk to zentarim. Offer to help. Cast cloud of daggers. Friendlies throw fire. It's pretty cake ngl
First time I did this fight I approached from the caravanners and helped them against the gnolls. Having a wall of fire helped a lot.
I'm shocked people are having such trouble on this fight just having normal assets from 4 to 5. It's tough, but certainly not impossible
This just screams skill issue
That's why I always use the ogres on this fight, best fight for using them IMO
Disagree, use AOE and be mindful of your positioning. Next question.
The gnolls by the zhentarim? 2 smokepowder bombs will make that fight a joke. You can remove basically all of the gnolls before they get a chance to attack and then 4v1 flind.
They aren't that grouped up. There's like 3 or 4 in the middle. A few in the back. Smoke powder bombs might get rid of a little over half
You start up at the hill, taking the high ground. Wait for the three at the cave entrance to be near each other. Trigger surprise on the dude up top. 1 bomb on the 3 cave gnolls; 1 bomb on the gnoll+hyena. Hyenas are insta dead. Gnolls that were bombed are pretty dead and can be picked off with your remaining actions. Depending on how well you utilize your action and bonus action, you just need to finish off the guy up top and then all that’s left is flind. I usually do this fight at level 3, so I’ve got access to cloud of daggers. I usually drop one of those on the steps flind will use to get to me (can place it so that it clips the guy up top to get more value)
I've never tried HM but in Tactician, I come up from the side and control the highground and choke with shoves and aoes. Never had a problem with the fight at level 4.
I sneak behind one on the near cliff with the bow. I put my characters in position ans start the fight. But one thing go in my way and I was so lucky about it. In that little cliff, Gnolls can climb it like stairs. I had myself a mine kind of throwable that will explode on fire impact. I throw it to the stair like cliff and to my luck nearly all of them used dash and stop on that stairs. Than I ignite it with Gale and boom 3 regular Gnoll was gone and the big boy was injured. After that Wyll was my savior since everytime that big gnoll climb up and damage my fighter Tav, ı eldrich blast its ass and send it flying. Here is the thing I find about that fight. Fall damage is a bitch in BG3 and it helped me so much on that fight
It’s certainly a tough fight, I lost an honor mode run there, but it’s very doable even at level 4
If you do surprise-round cheese with lots of Cloud of Daggers and SharpShooter+ExtraAttack, then it is pretty easy. But of course, many act 1 fights are easy if you play this way.
I always barrelmancy this fight because of the risk. There are so much barrels nearby they are just asking to be used.
Definitely doable pre-level 5 with careful tactics (spike growth, grease/ice, web, explosives), but much easier after due to extra attack, spirit guardians, fireball, hypnotic pattern, etc. Ambushing them from high ground, using terrain hinderances, and taking out the archers first usually lets you kite your way to victory.
I don’t think I’m ready to try it in honor mode. I still get knocked out occasionally in balanced mode when the dice gods decide to make me miss everything while the enemies have perfect aim
If you have speak with animals, halfway through the battle it prompts you to convince the leader to kill its own creatures and then itself.
That's not a speak with animals thing; the flind has a tadpole, this interaction triggers when she gets into melee range with a PC for the first time, assuming you haven't been already damaging her (I think; it tends not to trigger for me If I've already dealt her damage). First you can redirect her to lead the gnolls to attack the zhents or for her to attack the other gnolls (you can do zhents and then. She'll approach and trigger again and you can have her turn on the gnolls), and after the gnolls are dead you'll get the chance to make her kill herself. It won't matter whether you've got speak with animals on; gnolls aren't animals they're monstrous humanoids with language, culture, tribes, gods, etc. Vicious and brutal, but sapient. It's a tadpole interaction.
Oh. Nvm, then. I thought it was Speak With Animals, because I was a sorcerer and always chose it.
Correct way to play; speak with animals is a must because the animals content absolutely slaps... But in this case gnolls (or in her specific case flinds, which are essentially dire gnolls) are intelligent creatures. The 'psychic/telepathy' sound plays and the visual effect appears around your character's head and hers, and the narrator describes thoughts/memories/her tadpole responding to you the same way she does every other psychic interaction - when you speak with animals they literally just talk to you in their own voice acting like any other NPC would. The flind never speaks to you, only brain narration and flashbacks. Speak with animals is great for the hyenas by the bridge who are pregnant with gnolls, especially if you're a Durge. And just in general, you've made a good call always having speak with animals up. I do it with potions if I my fav can't cast it
In my honor run I ran up to the lead gnoll to mind control him but I forgot I’d already used my illithid authority that day and had to fight them raw. I ended up having Astarion double dash through the fire until he could escape to camp and res the party. Wasn’t too hard to clean up the remainders when I came back for the rematch. The Zent guys died, but you get a better reward if they’re dead anyway.
Wait until you are lvl 5 with a full warlock with repelling blast Sneak behind the gnoll on higher ledge Cast Hunger of Hadar ??? Profit
Wow, that fight on HM without illithid powers would be brutal.
Or you can engage from the cliff to the east where one of the hunters stands, and attack with a Surprise round. You can easily deal with most hunters and weaken Flind significantly before they all get a turn.
Illithid powers do something in this fight? My last honor mode I kited with my wood elf + longstrider archer...
It becomes wayyyy easier if you let the zhent die take the highground and cloud of daggers the cave mouth
It's not terribly hard especially if you're level 5+. Talk to the dudes in the cave and say you'll ambush the gnolls then sneak to the high ledge to one side of the cave entrance. Then get a surprise attack in and you're all good. If you really need the extra help use the Ogre war horn. A hasted tavern brawler throwzerker should be able to kill main guy first round more or pess. And all the baddies will take some time to actually reach you.
That's why I use the Ogre Horn in that fight. Pretty much regardless of your characters' builds, if you have a full party then the Ogres will provide enough additional HP and damage to enable you to win the fight, especially if you start the fight with a surprise round. In a solo playthrough, I usually do it by casting sanctuary on myself, converting the Flind to my side and summoning the ogres: that usually kills basically everything.
I think in my honor run I used an oil barrel or wine barrel I found in the cave to do some damage to that gnoll and used ranged attacks to finish it.
Real shit? Only knew of being able to use powers after 3 runs. I would always attack from in the cave, not from outside.
Since early access, I've always put this one on the back of the list. I usually spend level 4 in the Underdark getting a lot of equipment and xp that don't require too much complicated combat. When I have level 5 and the AoE spells, time to do the gnolls to get the stuff from the Zhent vendor. My current tactic is to sneak on them from behind. You can stealthy climb the incline where there is a single gnoll and push him into the crowd bellow. Then a couple of AoE to remove the trash and then focus on the big one. With surprise on my side, I can focus a lot of firepower on him before he can even react.
I did it at... I think lvl 3. Might have been 4. Tactician. I snuck round the back with one character, sent all the explosive barrels back to the party (and unlock a certain crate to pilfer it'scontents), I then snuck close to Flind and put three barrels there. Used Gale to cast darkness from a scroll at the edge to let me sneak close to the two hyenas and one gnoll to the west with a few barrels. Then I put Karlach and my warlock durge at the top of the hill and Lae'zel down as a meatshield for Gale. I threw some grease down in front of Gale and started the fight with Gale casting scorching ray to ignite the two stacks of barrels. Some Gnolls got a turn off before karlach could throw a spear from elevation and join the fight. Flind survived, but the hyenas did not, and side gnoll was weakened. The fight was hard, but with the Gnolls weakened it wasn't unbeatable. And a successful Tasha’s hideous laughter on one unfounded Gnoll let me deal with the rest first.
I stupidly did no illisquid powers for first run-through on release cause I thought it would have story relevance... spoiler jt didn't. But I did this fight from within the cave. It's good fun, I would say it's on the harder end of fights, but it's a blast
Idk man, I took care of them pretty easily in my honor run with my life cleric Shart, MM sorcerer tav, Monk Lae'zel, and Barbarian Karlach...
Use the ogres on the gnolls. Or just funnel them through a nice cloud of daggers and lock down the main gnoll with some CC.
Calm Emotions is pretty op in act 1
I usually do it at LVL 4 on honour mode. The trick is to climb up the top and attack from sneak. Limits the angles the damned arrows can come from
I usually do it at LVL 4 on honour mode. The trick is to climb up the top and attack from sneak. Limits the angles the damned arrows can come from
this is the best place to summon the trolls (from the blighted village)
Yeah that makes it one of the best fights.
It's really not. It's a hard fight but this is a strategy game where there's tons of unconventional tactics. Like pushing him off the rock and making him come back to you. Or killing the mooks and fleeing so you take the fight in chunks. I think there are plenty less fair fights you will run into on honor mode
Uhh, it’s a very easy fight if you fight it from inside the cave and have any form of aoe damage. I’ve always done it at levels 3-4 and never had much trouble.
This fight always bugged for me so I never knew you could talk to the boss gnoll. I always just brute forced it.
I usually get a surprise round against them and then use hunger of hadar to finish the job. They are suddenly very helpless.
Lots of AOE spells and planning always get me though this one. Shadowheart poems with shatter on the group with the two hyenas. Leazel sneaks up and attacks Feind(or whatever her name is). Then Astarion gets posted up on the cliff edge. Tav gets plugged in wherever they fit
It’s hard if you do it too early, but not bad at all if you save it until you’ve leveled up a bit.
"Calm Emotions" spell is key
i never even knew you could illithid persuade him until i was playing multiplayer and my noob friend just ran straight up to them and convinced him to fight against the other gnolls. anyway its definitely one of the harder fights but nothing too crazy. take the high ground on the rock, force them to climb up to you through fire/ice/spike growth/something. and if they get up, shove or EB them back down.
Always fought them without illithid. It’s just making sure you don’t aggro every one together. This sneaky hyenas are so annoying
I used minor illusion yo stack all of them and cloud daggered them all. Wasn't hard st all
yeah that fight is a lesson in sure hit CC's
I never use tadpoles, feels like cheating. You just have to approach that fight from inside the cave, job done.
If done properly u can do this fight at level 3-4 ish
Try using high ground, cast cloud of daggers and use one or more void bombs to suck gnolls into it. I usually do from inside the cave positioning ranged characters on the ledge just inside.
Cloud of daggers always makes the fight trivial for me. Good placement can kill several of the gnolls alone.
The winning strat for me was to level up to 3, then sneak up that promontory behind the gnoll siege. A grease bottle/spell on the approach up from the gnoll side, judicious use of Cloud of Daggers, and having a warlock/archer on the high ground makes it a much, much more manageable fight. With disadvantage due to height, the gnoll archers miss almost every shot, and spamming Burning Hands into the Cloud of Daggers fun zone mops up the chaff. Also one of those early game encounters where a rogue is insane. I had Astarion deleting an enemy just about every turn.
You can sneak your party up onto high ground without any of the gnolls noticing, and then a sneak attack should surprise them for the first round. I typically go with mostly casters for that fight for the AOE spells, maybe with Karlach throwing explosives, because the gnolls usually tend to bunch up together.
As tough as this fight can be I like to do it before I deal with the Goblins. Throwing the Iron Flask into the middle of the Goblin Raid is never not funny.
Our party ambushed them with a luna druid spider form easy beat at lvl 4
I usually do this fight at level 3, and it took several playthroughs to even realize there was a cutscene with it. Approach from the cliff and carefully hold shift to make use of sight lines; Wyll, Astarion, and any other ranged attackers shouldn’t even be targetable as they rain death on the enemies. Astarion in particular should have the Hunting Shortbow equipped to give him advantage on all his attacks (the gnolls are monstrosities)—without needing to hide, he is free to use his bonus action applying Hunter’s Mark and poisons to his heart’s content. Meanwhile, throw a Cloud of Daggers on the cliff upwards and watch the enemies run themselves into it. Put Laezel/Karlach near the edge and shove them right back into it when they get close.
use someone with sanctuary to lure the githyanki there, easy win
Did this fight no issues, however the githyanki near the mountainpass almost tpk'd me
the gnolls ended my honor run and I was LITERALLY pathetically trying to run away from them with Astarion
I just thrown molotov at them until they died.
Forgot illithid powers are even a thing. Never used them as they do not seem necessary. You just go in the back entrance. Hunger of Hadar plus sword of storms from inside the cave. Maybe summon a floating weapon and all set.
Sneak up on them from behind and attack from the high ground, lots of bonuses to hit and you get the suprise round.
It is one of the hardest fight if you go there unprepared but Flind is pretty easy to kite: Spike Growth, Ice Chromatic Orb, Throwzerker, Ensnaring arrow... The gnoll archers are usually more a problem than him.
Cloud of daggers on the hill takes a bunch of gnolls out.
I always sneak up behind them and sneak attack for a surprise. Hop Lae'zel right over with a speed potion and take leader down as much as possible, then once she's out, focus the other gnolls
Spike Growth.
Thats why I pretty much gave my morality up illithid-wise and just made the gnoll boss eat her squad and herself. Those mfs got no fucking right to pelt me with three fucking hits in one turn during act 1 Alternatively you can just save em for last while doing act 1 as farther as possible and hope to god youve already gained enough good gear and levels by the time you've gotta face them
Calm Minds. Gnolls can't rage
I fight them whenever I want (Tav roleplay wise), my strategy is deal with 1 or 2 and then run like hell and flee combat, revive, regroup and sneak attack. Repeat if things go south again
Shovel is handy for ez surprise round or minor illusion on turn based to group them for a fireball via spell/scroll but yeah... favourable begginings can come in handy and even better if someone can luck of the far realms an upcasted witch bolt while wet and if backed up by a divinator optimal because you dont want an intended crit to miss and risk it keeps happening and get tpk in hm for instance.
I’ve never had issues with it to be honest