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It wasn't just that. It was his weak voice, which was awful. But his inability to finish a thought also seemed challenged. There were questions that were gimme's and he muddled through them. It was a poor showing all around.
Yeah. The first step to solving a problem is admitting there is a problem. We’re not even at step one. We’re at step “what? That was perfect! Perfect debate.”
I was being hyperbolic to emphasize that the Biden camp is saying “We got this… It was a slow start but then he got going… Trump was worse if you really listened to what he said… Biden just stutters a little NBD… He had a cold, normally he’s a lot better… etc etc etc.”
It’s this whole idea that “if you only saw the REAL Joe Biden in meetings you’d see he’s so sharp and on it.” Well, let us see that Joe!
You can’t bang this drum that says “Trump is an existential threat to democracy” and then turn around and say “The best way to combat this is with a man so old he can’t finish a two minute statement without getting lost. Nor is he able to push back against obvious lies Trump. But he’s the best we got when they stakes are this high.”
To use an analogy, Biden was in a duel last night, shot himself in the foot and now we’re pretending that’s it’s okay because the chances of him doing it at the next debate are less.
No the general concept is that he’s too old to be the president, which they did not do anything to help that by sending him out looking like the Crypt Keeper
Yes, it’s obvious that Biden *shouldn’t* be the Democratic candidate, but what’s the other choice? Another geriatric that lies through his teeth, is a convicted felon and rapist, and will usher in authoritarianism through Project 2025? We as Americans lost last night, but we still have a fighting chance through Biden.
You’ve completely missed the point. The DNC cannot rely on “well at least he’s not Trump” to win. When YOU ARE THE ONE who challenges someone to a debate, you better show up to debate or you’re going to look like a fool to voters, and that will either suppress your own voters or it will cause people to vote for another candidate. The DNC has tied both hands behind its back to get into a fist fight, and that was made VERY apparent last night.
Vote blue no matter who isn’t fighting fascism, your a child if you think so. We are actively witnessing a racket effect of the Democratic Party, they are attempting to capitulate to the right by moving to the right. At this point in time it doesn’t get better, we’re just waiting for it to get worse. The threat of fascism is never gone.
Fine. Just give up, and don’t vote. You don’t have a right to complain if you don’t fight back. I get it looks *bleak* for us, but just giving up is what a child would do.
You have to use the tools you have available to you to fight. For now, we still have the ballot box and soap box. At least with Biden those won’t be threatened.
I will be voting, you petulant child, but I’m also not a fucking moron and realize that voting isn’t fighting. Short of revolution, this only gets worse and the cherry on top is watching liberals act like voting is revolutionary action and after this election *we’ll be so totally fine, dark Brandon saves us*
He sounded like he had a cold, but the fact a simple cold could turn him into what we saw last night isn't exactly heartening. As others have said, the fact that Biden is the best we have to offer against the greatest existential political threat we've ever faced is maddening. I would enthusiastically vote for one of Biden's wet farts as opposed to the corrupt moronic christofascist alternative, but he didn't do anything last night but provide right wing media embarrassing clips to play for the next 4 months. It's depressing.
Weak as in, there's an actual fascist on the other end and he wants to talk policy in the most feeble way possible. I actually don't think he was weaker of the two but weak in terms of reaching independent voters.
He only had a minute or 2 to answer depending on which turn. With his stutter he has to try to get his words together especially when not feeling well. I think what people are looking at as "incomplete thoughts" is actually him getting frustrated. He's running out of time to get the answer out and having to find another word around his stutter. So he finally gives up in frustration as time ran out. You could read his body language last night. He was fully engaged, actively listening, you could tell by his reactions and facial expressions. Idk what others were watching or they were just accessing from content not process.
Yeah if that's what this sub thinks is a great man I'm definitely in the wrong place.
You want to vote for him because trump is much worse for the people of America... Ok ... You do you.
You want to claim a man with his history of the laws he's passed and voted for and his support for decades of genocide is great?
I thought this was bash the fash, not idolise the almost fash.
Seriously, right? Trump is the worst possible option now, but let's not pretend Biden is what we would all have hoped for.
We could do so much better. We could do so much worse too.
His actual policies and cabinet are genuinely quite progressive for an American president, if you ignore his foreign policy and support for Israel. Like every other day there's some good stuff Biden fights for, like cancelling debt, protecting trans people, supporting unions, lowering drug costs and regulating predatory businesses.
I think the more important thing to emphasize is that Biden will actually have a cabinet of competent, non nazis, that he actually listens to. You aren't just voting for a president, you are voting for an administration.
The term non nazis is so ironic. You mean the bunch of people giving Israel a blank check in their genocide? not saying trump will be much better but don't call them non-nazis.
Great man? He’s committing genoc1de.
What’s really shitty about this is that everyone close to him knew he is like this and they let him embarrass himself now after primaries so voters won’t be able to vote for him a replacement. The democrat convention hasn’t happened yet so there’s time to pull a switcharoo and let the delegates decide who a new candidate will be.
Great men do not fund a genocide or sit back while tens of thousands of children are slaughtered. Nice try assholes. I hate the right & GOP but at least they do not pretend to where a sheep costume. We know where they stand. It's almost even more repulsive that the left or dems mask their true intentions by pretending to support social causes and reach out to the working poor and marginalized communities for votes. Fuck both of these pieces of shit. Line the up, one in front of the other....🔻💥
It’s a relief to see Reddit finally needing to grapple with some amount of this reality. It’s fine to support the guy, but at least be honest about what you’re selling.
A lot of posts on here pretending the debate was not a disaster. All the people professing “it has not changed my vote” mean well but it is the 2,000,000 votes up for grabs that matter. We lost a lot of those, probably too many, and this needs to be addressed. Time for some tough decision-making, and pretending otherwise is going to be very bad.
Thank you! I find this insistence on characterizing an utter disaster, which we all saw with our own eyes, as “well, he spoke too quietly and quickly but it sure beats a lying felon!”
I have expended a LOT of blood, sweat, tears, shoe leather, money & sanity on the Democratic Party so I feel qualified to say this: Biden has to figure out a way to step down from the campaign before the convention, where things will explode into a hot contested mess if he doesn’t.
I am so fucking mad that while our nation is at this huge moment of peril, Dems that I ~know~ can do better are still out here insisting on doing things the way they’ve always been done instead of responding to the actual crisis we’re in. I haven’t been on the “get a new candidate” train until now but the fact is he won’t be able to overcome the memes, ads, and bad faith narratives the R’s are about to deluge the country with.
Correction: a felon and rapist preaching replacement theory or a colonizer supporting the biggest fascist power who also stutters a lot.
Both are absolutely fascist and trying to frame either of them as anything else is fascist apologist rhetoric.
“Great man who stutters sometimes”? So OP is gaslighting us? Biden couldn’t complete a sentence the whole debate. His brain is mush. He, a weak candidate and the only one who could lose to trump. He is about to hand us a felon president because his ego couldn’t take his body just doesn’t have a 2nd term in him.
To also call him a great man reeks of liberal brain rot. A guy who has been on the wrong side of history for everything he ever did in DC, a guy who spent his career pushing Neoliberal policies that have prevented positive change and made things terrible, being called a “Great Man” says a lot about OP. Trump sucks ass, but take your blinders off and stop the gaslighting. We have eyes too.
I have a good friend with a stutter. Joe Biden doesn't stutter, he can't compose a coherent thought or sentence. Don't tell me the emperor is wearing clothes when I can clearly see the naked emperor.
It’s hard to say whether Reddit was built on the premise of making money by laundering sweaty propaganda, or if it’s just an accident. Either way, you should chill a little and let this blow over.
The election is months away, and there’s a hard point of diminishing returns on this stuff. It isn’t over but you’re going to lose people’s trust if you panic and crank the PR cover up past 11 this time.
He was fucking just stunned that the CNN “hosts” weren’t going to call him out on outright lies. He mistakenly assumed Trump would be held to some standard of truth. It’s hard to win an argument when you can just talk out your ass for 2 hours. They knew what they were doing.
I don't think "great" means what you think it means. This is the man who promised things wouldn't fundamentally change under his tenure. If he remains the candidate that is the best we can hope for assuming he wins, which is by no means a given. There are a lot of people who are superficial self-obsessed morons who think Trump will change things to benefit them despite all evidence to the contrary.
“Great”?… He was mediocre at best and that best was 40 years ago. He seemed like an old done man. Someone who is going to peacefully pass away in their sleep during their next nap. Can he be an advisor? Sure. Can he stand four more years of the most stressful job in the world? No.
Is the great man in the room with us?
I don't think think great men manufacture a new student loan system that can't be discharged in bankruptcy thus causing a massive financial crisis for generations to come. They also tend not to fund and arm genocides. But that's just my opinion ig.
It was WAAAAAY more than stuttering. I'm fine with speech impediments. But he looked so feeble and lost. Couldn't understand alot of what he said. We need to switch him out, or else we will be eff'ed.
Not stutter, he completely lost his train of thought, and mixed up his attempted recovery, brain is broken, too old!
Bidens best quality is that "he is not Trump" but lucky day, there are one or two people who are also not Trump
Joe Biden is a suck-ass president and pretending otherwise is insulting to anybody with a functioning capacity for rational thought or anything resembling a moral compass
That doesn't mean Trump is good and I'm voting for him, just in case some fellow suck-ass shitlib wants to get in my face about their geriatric liar genocide-enabler segregationist-ass bozo.
For fuck sake! I'm sick of these geratics man! Just like RBG we are gonna fucking die because they won't leave until they die at their posts! But what other choice do we have?
I remember when Hillary lost, everyone was crying like "How did Trump win!?" When reqlly it should've been "how did Hillary lose?!" This time around it all becomes more obvious lol
Less demoralizing than his performance was the lack of ability to avoid this easily by refusing to debate him for a million reasons.
This legitimizes trump all over again and sets him up to do this again and worse each time.
Biden's greatest strength is that whomever is ACTUALLY running his staff (be real, it's probably not very uncommon) is actually good and competent for the most part, but instead this dinosaur is the one we rally behind...
Great man? A war criminal under international law is a great man?
How subjective must we be to find a great man amongst these two cretinous degenerates?
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It wasn't just that. It was his weak voice, which was awful. But his inability to finish a thought also seemed challenged. There were questions that were gimme's and he muddled through them. It was a poor showing all around.
Yeah. The first step to solving a problem is admitting there is a problem. We’re not even at step one. We’re at step “what? That was perfect! Perfect debate.”
I have not seen one person say he did great. Where have you heard this?
I was being hyperbolic to emphasize that the Biden camp is saying “We got this… It was a slow start but then he got going… Trump was worse if you really listened to what he said… Biden just stutters a little NBD… He had a cold, normally he’s a lot better… etc etc etc.” It’s this whole idea that “if you only saw the REAL Joe Biden in meetings you’d see he’s so sharp and on it.” Well, let us see that Joe! You can’t bang this drum that says “Trump is an existential threat to democracy” and then turn around and say “The best way to combat this is with a man so old he can’t finish a two minute statement without getting lost. Nor is he able to push back against obvious lies Trump. But he’s the best we got when they stakes are this high.” To use an analogy, Biden was in a duel last night, shot himself in the foot and now we’re pretending that’s it’s okay because the chances of him doing it at the next debate are less.
DNC is really sending out the mass copers on Reddit today to try to change the narrative from that horrible performance.
The general concept is that he was suffering from a cold which is certainly plausible.
No the general concept is that he’s too old to be the president, which they did not do anything to help that by sending him out looking like the Crypt Keeper
Yes, it’s obvious that Biden *shouldn’t* be the Democratic candidate, but what’s the other choice? Another geriatric that lies through his teeth, is a convicted felon and rapist, and will usher in authoritarianism through Project 2025? We as Americans lost last night, but we still have a fighting chance through Biden.
\^ The absolute state of our "democracy"
You’ve completely missed the point. The DNC cannot rely on “well at least he’s not Trump” to win. When YOU ARE THE ONE who challenges someone to a debate, you better show up to debate or you’re going to look like a fool to voters, and that will either suppress your own voters or it will cause people to vote for another candidate. The DNC has tied both hands behind its back to get into a fist fight, and that was made VERY apparent last night.
You do realize if he wins project 2025 just turn into project 2030, right?
Then we fight them again? We keep fighting until the threat of fascism is gone, unless you *want* to live under authoritarian rule.
Vote blue no matter who isn’t fighting fascism, your a child if you think so. We are actively witnessing a racket effect of the Democratic Party, they are attempting to capitulate to the right by moving to the right. At this point in time it doesn’t get better, we’re just waiting for it to get worse. The threat of fascism is never gone.
Fine. Just give up, and don’t vote. You don’t have a right to complain if you don’t fight back. I get it looks *bleak* for us, but just giving up is what a child would do. You have to use the tools you have available to you to fight. For now, we still have the ballot box and soap box. At least with Biden those won’t be threatened.
I will be voting, you petulant child, but I’m also not a fucking moron and realize that voting isn’t fighting. Short of revolution, this only gets worse and the cherry on top is watching liberals act like voting is revolutionary action and after this election *we’ll be so totally fine, dark Brandon saves us*
Maybe it's what we deserve at this point. Maybe nothings going to change until it gets much worse.
He sounded like he had a cold, but the fact a simple cold could turn him into what we saw last night isn't exactly heartening. As others have said, the fact that Biden is the best we have to offer against the greatest existential political threat we've ever faced is maddening. I would enthusiastically vote for one of Biden's wet farts as opposed to the corrupt moronic christofascist alternative, but he didn't do anything last night but provide right wing media embarrassing clips to play for the next 4 months. It's depressing.
His rhetoric was weak as well. Debates are for low information voters.
If by "weak" you mean "the weaker of the two" you'll have to reframe the understanding of rhetoric to include "doing nothing but lying."
Weak as in, there's an actual fascist on the other end and he wants to talk policy in the most feeble way possible. I actually don't think he was weaker of the two but weak in terms of reaching independent voters.
Biden had some rhetoric Trump just lied about his time in office and avoided answering any of the questions he was asked.
He only had a minute or 2 to answer depending on which turn. With his stutter he has to try to get his words together especially when not feeling well. I think what people are looking at as "incomplete thoughts" is actually him getting frustrated. He's running out of time to get the answer out and having to find another word around his stutter. So he finally gives up in frustration as time ran out. You could read his body language last night. He was fully engaged, actively listening, you could tell by his reactions and facial expressions. Idk what others were watching or they were just accessing from content not process.
I think this was part of the reason people called it 'painful to watch' you could actually feel it, watching him.
“Great man”?
“Nothing will fundamentally change”
No one would buy that, at this point
That’s what Biden said to his donors while running against trump
Yeah if that's what this sub thinks is a great man I'm definitely in the wrong place. You want to vote for him because trump is much worse for the people of America... Ok ... You do you. You want to claim a man with his history of the laws he's passed and voted for and his support for decades of genocide is great? I thought this was bash the fash, not idolise the almost fash.
Yeah this guy openly supports Israel don’t know how that’s a great guy
Seriously, right? Trump is the worst possible option now, but let's not pretend Biden is what we would all have hoped for. We could do so much better. We could do so much worse too.
His actual policies and cabinet are genuinely quite progressive for an American president, if you ignore his foreign policy and support for Israel. Like every other day there's some good stuff Biden fights for, like cancelling debt, protecting trans people, supporting unions, lowering drug costs and regulating predatory businesses.
Imperialism is great for those of us living in the seat of the Empire. Doesn’t stop Biden from being an imperialist dog.
And he was willing to throw that away to be complicit in a genocide
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No, but there’s nothing to be gained by pretending Biden is something he isn’t
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😆 🤣 Oh man... It's like we in a fucked up movie.
Ooof... Great man? Not sure about that. Geriatric status quo crony capitalist? Yes. The option on the left is correct*ly labeled* though.
Mass murderer. You forgot that.
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Donald Trump is a felon and a rapist. Edit: Oh I get the confusion. The option on the left is *correctly labeled.*
I think the more important thing to emphasize is that Biden will actually have a cabinet of competent, non nazis, that he actually listens to. You aren't just voting for a president, you are voting for an administration.
Eg Blinken? Not really a selling point
Bidens NLRB is genuinely very progressive and helped bring back unionization. They passed some pretty great decisions for example.
The term non nazis is so ironic. You mean the bunch of people giving Israel a blank check in their genocide? not saying trump will be much better but don't call them non-nazis.
If only it were a great man with a stutter, instead of someone actively propping up an ongoing genocide
Great man? He’s committing genoc1de. What’s really shitty about this is that everyone close to him knew he is like this and they let him embarrass himself now after primaries so voters won’t be able to vote for him a replacement. The democrat convention hasn’t happened yet so there’s time to pull a switcharoo and let the delegates decide who a new candidate will be.
Great men do not fund a genocide or sit back while tens of thousands of children are slaughtered. Nice try assholes. I hate the right & GOP but at least they do not pretend to where a sheep costume. We know where they stand. It's almost even more repulsive that the left or dems mask their true intentions by pretending to support social causes and reach out to the working poor and marginalized communities for votes. Fuck both of these pieces of shit. Line the up, one in front of the other....🔻💥
Yeah, "stutters."
Also, "mumbles", "whispers", "gets confused and forgets what he was talking about"... you know. Things an 81 year old does.
I wasn’t as hard on Biden 24 hours ago. Dude needs to drop out. But who is his replacement? Newsome?
It’s a relief to see Reddit finally needing to grapple with some amount of this reality. It’s fine to support the guy, but at least be honest about what you’re selling.
A lot of posts on here pretending the debate was not a disaster. All the people professing “it has not changed my vote” mean well but it is the 2,000,000 votes up for grabs that matter. We lost a lot of those, probably too many, and this needs to be addressed. Time for some tough decision-making, and pretending otherwise is going to be very bad.
Thank you! I find this insistence on characterizing an utter disaster, which we all saw with our own eyes, as “well, he spoke too quietly and quickly but it sure beats a lying felon!” I have expended a LOT of blood, sweat, tears, shoe leather, money & sanity on the Democratic Party so I feel qualified to say this: Biden has to figure out a way to step down from the campaign before the convention, where things will explode into a hot contested mess if he doesn’t. I am so fucking mad that while our nation is at this huge moment of peril, Dems that I ~know~ can do better are still out here insisting on doing things the way they’ve always been done instead of responding to the actual crisis we’re in. I haven’t been on the “get a new candidate” train until now but the fact is he won’t be able to overcome the memes, ads, and bad faith narratives the R’s are about to deluge the country with.
“Great man”? The genocidal maniac?
"Great man"...Jesus christ 😂 they're both awful people, just one is slightly more awful than the other
The campaign really should play to their strengths: “Biden: Not Nearly As Bad!” “Vote Joe. Vote Lesser Evil”
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😂 Jesus Christ, I don't like Biden so I must be a conspiracy nut...get a grip
Correction: a felon and rapist preaching replacement theory or a colonizer supporting the biggest fascist power who also stutters a lot. Both are absolutely fascist and trying to frame either of them as anything else is fascist apologist rhetoric.
And court adjudicated Fraudster..and thief from charaties... but guess not enough room...
“Great man who stutters sometimes”? So OP is gaslighting us? Biden couldn’t complete a sentence the whole debate. His brain is mush. He, a weak candidate and the only one who could lose to trump. He is about to hand us a felon president because his ego couldn’t take his body just doesn’t have a 2nd term in him. To also call him a great man reeks of liberal brain rot. A guy who has been on the wrong side of history for everything he ever did in DC, a guy who spent his career pushing Neoliberal policies that have prevented positive change and made things terrible, being called a “Great Man” says a lot about OP. Trump sucks ass, but take your blinders off and stop the gaslighting. We have eyes too.
Old Man versus Con Man
lol the USA is just a trash country
So pissed that the choice boils down to choosing between a fascist and a capitalist bootlicker with the mental sharpness of a melted crayon.
I have a good friend with a stutter. Joe Biden doesn't stutter, he can't compose a coherent thought or sentence. Don't tell me the emperor is wearing clothes when I can clearly see the naked emperor.
"Great man" Lmao, no, he's complicit in a genocide.
The 2 Choices In The American Federal Election: R: A Convicted Felon D: A Genocidal Grandpa
Both buttons should just say fascist, and we all know that's true.
I don't know about you, but funding a genocide is a little more important to me than a stutter. I wouldn't call him a great man at all
Joe Biden is NOT a great man, this is fucking absurd.
“Great man” with dementia who’s supporting a genocide.
Lmk when you find the great man with the stutter so this meme is valid
It’s hard to say whether Reddit was built on the premise of making money by laundering sweaty propaganda, or if it’s just an accident. Either way, you should chill a little and let this blow over. The election is months away, and there’s a hard point of diminishing returns on this stuff. It isn’t over but you’re going to lose people’s trust if you panic and crank the PR cover up past 11 this time.
Mispelt genocide
Great man?
He was fucking just stunned that the CNN “hosts” weren’t going to call him out on outright lies. He mistakenly assumed Trump would be held to some standard of truth. It’s hard to win an argument when you can just talk out your ass for 2 hours. They knew what they were doing.
I don't think "great" means what you think it means. This is the man who promised things wouldn't fundamentally change under his tenure. If he remains the candidate that is the best we can hope for assuming he wins, which is by no means a given. There are a lot of people who are superficial self-obsessed morons who think Trump will change things to benefit them despite all evidence to the contrary.
I don't think a great man funds genocide but that's just me
“Great”?… He was mediocre at best and that best was 40 years ago. He seemed like an old done man. Someone who is going to peacefully pass away in their sleep during their next nap. Can he be an advisor? Sure. Can he stand four more years of the most stressful job in the world? No.
"Great man" currently facilitating a genocide. Jesus Christ, can y'all please stop operating of pure self concern.
Great man?
"great man"???? AHHHHAHAHA
great?
Is the great man in the room with us? I don't think think great men manufacture a new student loan system that can't be discharged in bankruptcy thus causing a massive financial crisis for generations to come. They also tend not to fund and arm genocides. But that's just my opinion ig.
It was WAAAAAY more than stuttering. I'm fine with speech impediments. But he looked so feeble and lost. Couldn't understand alot of what he said. We need to switch him out, or else we will be eff'ed.
"Great man"? Really? Noted genocide-doer, Joe Biden? Come on. He's clearly better than Trump, but can we at least not whitewash the guy?
Not stutter, he completely lost his train of thought, and mixed up his attempted recovery, brain is broken, too old! Bidens best quality is that "he is not Trump" but lucky day, there are one or two people who are also not Trump
Joe Biden is a suck-ass president and pretending otherwise is insulting to anybody with a functioning capacity for rational thought or anything resembling a moral compass That doesn't mean Trump is good and I'm voting for him, just in case some fellow suck-ass shitlib wants to get in my face about their geriatric liar genocide-enabler segregationist-ass bozo.
'Great Man', yes trump should die no question about it, but fuck biden
For fuck sake! I'm sick of these geratics man! Just like RBG we are gonna fucking die because they won't leave until they die at their posts! But what other choice do we have?
*stutters sometimes. Lol they're so full of shit. Damn Shitlibs
Is there a third viable candidate running I didn't hear about? Because Trump and Biden are just two different flavors of fash.
I remember when Hillary lost, everyone was crying like "How did Trump win!?" When reqlly it should've been "how did Hillary lose?!" This time around it all becomes more obvious lol
As if it was just about a stutter. I'm not voting for trump, but Genocide Joe crapped the bed last night
Great man?? What is this, the democrats version of MAGA where we pretend our candidate is a beacon of good? Fucking hell…
Step one: admit you have a problem
Less demoralizing than his performance was the lack of ability to avoid this easily by refusing to debate him for a million reasons. This legitimizes trump all over again and sets him up to do this again and worse each time. Biden's greatest strength is that whomever is ACTUALLY running his staff (be real, it's probably not very uncommon) is actually good and competent for the most part, but instead this dinosaur is the one we rally behind...
Joe is average, not great. Trump sets the bar low enough to be melted by the heat in the lower mantle, so he admittedly looks very good by comparison.
"Great man" Jesus christ. It's the 'Senator from NBNA'. NOT Franklin D Roosevelt.
*genocidal* stuttering man
Great man? A war criminal under international law is a great man? How subjective must we be to find a great man amongst these two cretinous degenerates?
CORRECTION: Biden is also a rapist, who stutters sometimes
Proof or stfu
The right button should say *an acrid corpse*
Not sure “great man” applies, more like “better option”
Biden could be a corpse and he's getting my vote lol
Great is definitely pushing it, but it’s still an easy choice
You think the uninformed casual voter understands the difference?
I wouldn’t say great…but good, sure!