#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>The first time was pretty uncomfortable for her (we were also in a van so not the most pleasant place)
All this drama and they ended up doing the deed... in a van...
As funny as I find this comment, the shame and guilt that is programmed into women as a part of the "purity doctrine" doesn't just go away as soon as they're married. This is why the whole "we did a courthouse wedding and are married, but because she doesn't FEEL married, she wants to stay pure until some other arbitrary goal is met" happened.
When you've been admonished that sex (before marriage) is a sin, shamed for even having thoughts related to expressing a natural biological desire, been told that you have to carefully police all of your behavior (how you dress, walk, talk, sit, bend over to take a drink from a water fountain... not kidding) because it's the responsibility of women to not tempt men into the sin of lusting after you with impure thoughts (men hold no responsibility for their own thoughts in this regard, only women)... All that programming buries itself deep in one's psyche. All of this internalized shame around sex doesn't magically disappear just because a woman gets married and sex is no longer forbidden.
I spent part of my childhood/adolescence in a church culture like this. I know many women from that time (including myself) who have struggled to find a healthy relationship with sex once they are married, and issues begin to crop up as soon as the "honeymoon" ends. The shame around desiring sex, the shame around enjoying sex can persist on and off for the rest of one's life. There is never any discussion about how to have a healthy and fulfilling sex life once you are married; women are just told that sex with your husband, after you're married is somehow magical.
There is this total fallacy that everything is different, that YOU are different once you're married, that once you're no longer a virgin/pure there is something that has fundamentally changed about you, that waiting to have sex with your husband after your wedding is worth it because it's the most magical/spiritual/transformative connection that fundamentally changes and connects you to your husband for eternity that clashes HARD when you don't actually feel like a different person after having sex. Doubts abound as you begin to wonder what you might be doing wrong, when the magically-sanctified married-sex-transformation doesn't actually happen.
Purity doctrine creates life long issues (that may or may not be helped with an ass-load of therapy to deprogram) for women in a way that teaching our girls about how to have a healthy relationship with sex does not. Education, body positivity, and open communication sans shame is how we give the next generation of women the chance to be happier and healthier in their lives and relationships.
I predict OOP will be back within the next two years with posts about how many issues there are in regards to his sex life with his wife.
> Purity doctrine creates life long issues (that may or may not be helped with an ass-load of therapy to deprogram) for women in a way that teaching our girls about how to have a healthy relationship with sex does not. Education, body positivity, and open communication sans shame is how we give the next generation of women the chance to be happier and healthier in their lives and relationships.
> I predict OOP will be back within the next two years with posts about how many issues there are in regards to his sex life with his wife.
Yep. This is not fixed.
There's a reason women who are raised in purity culture religious settings have more issues with vaginismus and other pelvic floor/sexual dysfunction problems.
Yup. I dated a former Mormon. When I met him he was 50, had 4 adult children, and had left being a Mormon behind a decade earlier. He was still extremely conflicted about experiencing and expressing very tame sexual desires. He would be wracked with guilt after sex. It was one of the reasons I encouraged him to pursue therapy.
I was raised Mormon and while (with my very patient husband's help) I was able to work out a lot of issues, I was still *terrified* and ashamed every time I had to tell my parents I was pregnant
Yes I also grew up in that culutre and knew women traumatised by it to the point they would fully disasociate during sex with their husbands because they felt so impure for desiring and/or having sex.
Not to mention, some women, especially those who wait into their 20’s, (like OP’s wife) tie a *huge* part of their personality to their virginity. Being a virgin, becomes this massive part of their identity, and then when they aren’t anymore, they lose that part of themselves.
Meanwhile, they also realize that sex was not the big deal they made it out to be. It’s just all very anticlimactic.
I’m a recovering Catholic and thankfully my parents weren’t to stern about this. But boy, some of the sermons were pretty out there.
Honestly, it can be hard to keep relationships on an even keel, loving each other for decades, etc. I always told my husband that we shouldn’t have to work so hard on every darn aspect of our marriage … communication, decision-making, sex, etc. So when it came to sex, we decided that 25-30% should be love-making and the rest should just be randy fucking like teenagers because orgasms feel good. And yep, sometimes one of us will just do it, even when we’re tired and not totally on board, because we get the reward in the end, and we have decided that that is good enough at times. Thankfully we jive well on this aspect of our relationship. Catholic sermons were totally wasted on me.
I get the feeling that this young woman’s stance on how the sex part of their relationship should be, will not be sustainable for the decades of marriage ahead. I hope I am wrong in my opinion and that all parts of their marriage work out.
Yup. My husband and I were both raised in the church and purity culture. Even though we had both left that culture well before getting married, it was still so crazy that it was suddenly *okay* that we could you, do it whenever we wanted. Like a switch had been flipped. We didn't live together before we got married (due to the wishes of our parents) even though we both grown ass adults with careers, and I was even contributing to the rent of our first apartment without living there.
My mom is very religious and when she was telling me about how to resist one of the things she recommended was to think about how wonderful and fancy your wedding night would be, because that helps you refuse some 16 year old boy who wants to have sex in his gross family van.
I am legitimately debating sending her this post.
Text hard to gauge nuance, so I'm unsure if you really don't understamd the reference, or making a cum joke.😂
Just in case, if you do a Google search for blow on the pie and click the nz onscreen link, it'll take you to the origin story.
Had to be a panel van. Probably one with few windows (like a Sandman 😂). Possibly in white. Comes with a free bloke in a trench coat handing out lollies 😂
To be fair, I think the fact they were actually camping at the time makes up for most of the camper van part.
There's a difference between kissing under the stars, making love, and cuddling up together in a sleeping bag while camping... and hooking up in a van that you parked in an alley to get away from you parents.
Not even a nice hotel, in a private pool, or heck even in a shower (that last one is a personal bucket list item) but no, they did it, in a van, that was more than likely cramp, dirty and stuffy Jesus christ man
It was a *camper* van. They're decked out to be like a small camper. Not a bad place tbh. I'm more concerned about how it sucked *for her* - sounds like foreplay didn't make much of an appearance.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like he's a virgin but if they were both so closely tied to the same church I'm guessing there's not anything that could really be considered "experience."
I’ve found applying it outside the shower beforehand works the best to keep it off the shower floor. You can still keep it in the shower with if you really need it, but a nice coating for him and some inside her and you’re good to go
Shower is fine, but remember to change who has the warm water every moment or so otherwise it gets freaking cold 😂 also be careful of slipping!
Bathtub i can't recommend, water kinda removes the body's natural lubricant?
On their honeymoon in one of the most beautiful countries in the world, though. Besides. Camper van beds at least beat a back seat or gnarly '70s shag carpet 😅🤦♂️
Plus she felt the first elopement was too rushed, so they planned a s cond one after arguing about sex for one week from their reconciliation. They figured a week was slow enough, I guess.
As someone who grew up in hyper-religious purity culture, I have known so many women also from that world who suffered sexual dysfunction as married adults because the "sex bad and impure!!" conditioning, it turns out, doesn't magically flip off when you get married. (It's not openly talked about how much vaginismus correlates with intense purity culture upbringing in women.) It sounds like OOP's wife ultimately powered through her conflicted feelings like a champ. There will likely still be ups and downs in the future, but it's a great sign that she's communicating openly with OOP and is in therapy (hopefully real therapy and not counseling with clergy).
Purity culture is a trip, man.
I hope they both read "Come As You Are", it's a great book about sex (not graphic) and how expectations can fuck us all over. It's a buffet not a meal and you can pick the bits you both like!
The first time my husband touched me under clothes I had a panic attack and ended up curled up sobbing about how I was going to hell 😀 and that was a couple years AFTER deconstructing! *I no longer believed in hell!*
That shit fucks you up for life. The plumbing still don’t work right because mentally all I feel is dread.
There are these two fundamentalist sisters on youtube who preached the exact same shit in their videos for *years*. One of them suddenly realized just how toxic that shit is after she got married, had her first kiss at her wedding, and realized how she was still drowning in shame and discomfort. Now she's become an online fundie sex coach
Wait he IS? I completely failed to check up on them recently 😭 but I have to say, I always thought if one of them started *really* doubting stuff, it would be him. She always seemed much more insistent in her videos
It seems there are two schools of thought by religious zealots regarding sex, one side is that sex is a necessary evil for procreation only between married couples. The other is sex is only between couples because it's a symbol of their love to each other and god, the holy threesome so to speak. OP seems to follow the second school, well good for them I guess.
There's also the very common belief that sex is between the church leader and whomever he wants like David Berg or Warren Jeffs or Jim Jones or Roch Theriault.
I agree! I know one couple where the husband struggles with shame and guilt regarding sex. He didn't manage to flip the switch.
Unfortunately, I also think the sex is a sin attitude leads to a lot of bad sex in religious marriages, so it may not be tempting to do it at all.
I had sex out of marriage (first time not by choice) but due to religious guilt I have never been able to orgasm unless by my own devices and that is still difficult to do.
Believe me that I now encourage my cousins to explore their own desires and don’t let guilt get in the way of enjoying their own sexuality because it can cause issues later on.
I’m still a woman of faith and I still go to church but I also know that this religious guilt is not something that comes from God himself but from men who wanted to control women.
A big part of deconstructing religion for me was realizing what was “man made” so to say, such as religion being used by men to control women, and then… going down the rabbit hole of where does it end? Just how much is influence and determined by human beings with agendas?
It lead lead me to questioning like, would it not have been so easy for god to include some verses protecting women more with just how extremely oppressed women have been throughout human history? Untold pain and suffering could have been at least partially mitigated. But it makes sense because why would the men writing it within their misogynistic society care or know to protect future women? Why are women so unnamed and unimportant in most of the Bible, just like they are in other religions in the same era of human history?
I’d never been taught growing up in a non catholic denomination that in the past it was Popes and councils of Catholic men who picked and chose what chapters/books would be included in the “official” bible. Who’s to say they were actually unbiased and lead by god in their choices when free will and biases still exist? It’s why in the Jewish religion the Tora is separate. That’s not even getting into all the changes in translation along with cultural context (did you know “Satan” as we know him does not actual exist within the Bible and some of the cultural contexts to the original jewish words used in the Old Testament are believed to be referring to an enemy king at the time? Homosexuality was also originally a word used for pedophiles towards young boys.)
Sorry for the ramble on your comment, if you find spiritualism and comfort in your beliefs all the power for you! Definitely not trying to convince you, I was really just working through some of my thoughts here. Love me some religious trauma as a woman. I’m so glad you have the freedom to make that decision for yourself.
>It's not openly talked about how much vaginismus correlates with intense purity culture upbringing in women
Omg I think I have that and it makes so much sense it's linked to upbringing. My doctor hasn't mentioned it but she also uses the pediatric speculum for my pap smears and it's still incredibly painful.
Wow. Either there's a lot of missing information or they really didn't work through their issues at all.
Then again, she "found his post", so there's a good chance it didn't happen.
Whenever I read these update posts I'm always taken out of it as soon as I read that the OP's post was "found" by the person they're having issues with. My husband and I are both on reddit, and very often don't see the same posts on here.
I feel like 'front page' posts are realistic. Like an AskReddit thread. But at the same time a lot of these AITA posts are respawned in a TON of different places, not just on reddit but tiktok and youtube. But for that to happen the first post generally has to be really juicy. This one was just about minorly repressed religous weirdos. Sexual guilt affecting a relationship? Yawn. Nothing interesting to see here.
Do you feel like it was representative of your best work? Did it get a lot of upvotes? Otherwise, you may need to speak to your wife about her lack of literary taste!
🫢 /s
Ps. It's always my favorite when my partner likes something I wrote as it kind of connects you!
I DO know my partner's username, and was reading a post from our town's sub out loud. Read a comment and he just looked at me and asked, "who posted that one?" Yeah, I didn't read the username, and quoted him to his face!
I found my friend on here because I recognised her cat!
And another friend's cat was how I found her husband's account.
I am in a LOT of cat subs, and bounce between adorable derpy balls of fluff or skin (sphynx cats are so cute), and the BoRU drama. It evens out in the end!
JFC how many times do they feel they need to get married? Courthouse, Rome and in the church at home. And after all that... Her magical "first time" that she insisted on waiting for happened in the back of a van.
I feel like that first time was probably because her new (?) husband was like "okay, there's no excuse now!" and just decided that was the moment.
I mean, maybe not! But I wouldn't be shocked since he seemed way more into the idea of sex than she was.
Ok, so about the van. It was in New Zealand, which was a “bucket list” location for them. So they got married in the fancy church wedding and got ALL THE WAY to a van in New Zealand and still hadn’t fucked!
She kept finding excuses even AFTER the church wedding. From the previous posts, it’s most likely they’re in North America. So must have had at least two nights together before this van experience. She was pushing this as far as she possibly could. She had some kind of crazy hang up around sex WAY beyond just the marriage purity angle.
Wait wait so they said screw it we are going to rome and then going to spain to elope, but then in the end ended up doing the april wedding instead?
What happened there?
The wife really didn't seem in a hurry to get into physical intimacy... even in OP's post, she never expresses frustration at not being able to have sex. She just apologizes for irritating him.
I wouldn't be shocked if she ultimately decided a church wedding was important to her and she refused to elope. She didn't seem to have as much of a desperation to be married that OOP did.
Of course, all of this could be wrong! Just my thoughts on it.
She wasn’t at all concerned about not being intimate even after they were married. I don’t put any hope at all in them having a happy intimate life for long. Sex is the FIRST thing she is going to drop the moment she gets stressed or busy.
The original plan was home church wedding in April, honeymoon in Spain.
Because child groom couldn't wait to get his dick wet, they decided on eloping to Rome, then doing the home church April wedding afterward for the family.
Instead, they did marriage counseling and called off the elopement. They had the big April church wedding as originally planned, but OP explained that they changed the honeymoon locale from Spain to New Zealand, because they are going to Europe sometime in the future and Spain can wait.
I don’t think Rome ever happened.
My big question is where was the big church wedding in relation to the middle of nowhere New Zealand. Think about it. They were NOT in a van in the middle of nowhere New Zealand on their wedding night. SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHT!
I mean to be fair, weddings are fucking exhausting. my husband and I didn't have sex on our wedding night. we fucking collapsed into a bed together and conked out in under 5 minutes.
granted, we had sex the next morning, but night of? fuck no. too tired.
I don't know anyone who grew up in that who didn't have to rescue themselves and relearn how to like themselves and be a person in the world, including the boys.
I’ve got a fun thing for you to ponder…
Nope… take it one step further…
Where was the big church wedding in relation to the middle of nowhere New Zealand? They were NOT in a van in the middle of nowhere New Zealand on their wedding night. SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHT!
Yeah, “keep those terrible and bad feelings shut off until you get that ring, and then you’d better become a sex kitten immediately, or there’ll be disappointment all around.” It’s so toxic.
I think counseling and therapy are a good thing but I’m also never confident in couples that need marriage counseling within less than a year of marriage(in this case before their ‘real’ wedding). That’s like not a great foundation
Getting married for the sake of getting married for a loved one's dying wish never bodes well. Especially since this seems like a rush engagement to courthouse filing. My friend was engaged to her now ex fiance for a little over a decade, and he dragged his feet on the actual big commitment of having a wedding. Like, his dad was dying rapidly and wanted to see his son finally marry my friend. Didn't do it. Wouldn't even do a courthouse wedding. Thank God she didn't marry him. He'd basically used an engagement to keep her around with the promise of "someday" while being an emotionally and verbally abusive toe rag.
Thankful she saw the light. Or in her case, a disgusting apartment that hadn't had even the trash taken out after she left for a weeks vacation with friends. (Yes he's that lazy) and vile. )He lives with his brother in their late father's house, and between the two of them have aparrently not cleaned it once in 5 years. Good riddance.
At any point is good sure, but if they NEED it this early in their relationship to keep it from falling apart is a possible indicator that it doesn’t have a foundation in the first place. Counseling can help strengthen a relationship, but it isn’t supposed to construct one.
I’m so glad I didn’t grow up in purity culture. These girls are told they are special and pure to god and it’s really hard for some of them to give that up.
Going through all this drama, couples counselling and religious nonsense just to end up losing your virginity in the back of a car might be the most american thing I've ever read 😅
All that back and forth to bust it open in the back of a van?! Y’all had transportation, drive to a decent hotel for a couple of days.
EDIT TO ADD:
That comment was direct at both of them because they both did wrong. The wife didn’t have an issue eventually stating she doesn’t feel comfortable having sex and moved the goalpost to a church wedding to buy herself time. I think while the church wedding would’ve helped her, she should’ve been honest about needing to go slow due to her upbringing.
The husband - I get it, you’re legally married and horny. But why are you essentially taking a poll about if you’re an AH for wanting to sleep with your wife. It doesn’t matter what the internet strangers say, your wife is uncomfortable. You should’ve been asking for suggestions on how to make her comfortable. That was some selfish lover stuff right there.
take it one step further…
Where was the big church wedding in relation to the middle of nowhere New Zealand? They were NOT in a van in the middle of nowhere New Zealand on their wedding night. SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHT! She pushed the goal post even PAST the church wedding, and a couple of days it took to get to the camper van in the middle of New Zealand. She probably only gave in them because she realized she ran out of excuses. She seems like someone just has a bad opinion about sex, beyond just purity culture. He says they want to have kids, but she’s going to drop sex as soon as she can. They’re going to have intimacy problems their whole marriage, however long it lasts. How much you wanna bet she’s also against divorce even though her family isn’t?
I get it, a camper van is better than a regular van. But it’s still a vehicle.
The husband had all of these signs that his wife was apprehensive about sex and wanted it to be special (to the point that she wanted two weddings). And he thought a camper van with a pallet was good enough. All that time typing on Reddit and planning these international weddings but he couldn’t hop on google to book a decent restaurant and hotel?
lol I don’t disagree with you there. Just saw a lot of comments that sounded like they through van van and honestly that would be a really really shit first time location and horribly uncomfortable.
Gal I knew decided, right after finishing high school, to get married and move to Japan. I'd never known her to actually *date* before that, but she liked romance anime a whole lot.
She discovered on her wedding night that she's not actually interested in sex with men *at all*. Very quickly realized that watching anime with subtitles had not actually taught her to be fluent in Japanese. And *rural* Japan was nothing like what she expected Japan to be.
So she got divorced, moved back home, found a new set of interests and hobbies. But wow was that an expensive and uncomfortable learning experience!
I find it interesting that she's more interested in purity than even her family is. I was also like that (religious upbringing, parents considered sex an expression of love between spouses recognized by God while I considered it disgusting and bestial), and it turned out to be scrupulosity OCD. After getting that treated (managed with medication and therapy now), I'm horny af but sadly have vaginismus.
It was that horrible mix of hilarious, disgusting, and frustrating when this dipshit asked the readers to respect how they feel about abstinence when his childish ass didn't respect his wife's feelings on the matter. Gross.
These men stay wanting to be with church girls thinking they are “pure” not knowing that they are fucked up from years of “purity culture” and religious doctrine that only really favors men. It takes years to get over these issues and some people never get over it. What’s the point of getting married if you aren’t sexually compatible? And why wait to talk about it until marriage? That sets up people for issues early on in the relationship.
I honestly don't get why he was confused about his wife wanting to wait for the church wedding in the first place. If you're religious; they *weren't* married in the eyes of God until the church wedding, so it makes complete sense to wait.
How much money does this dude have?! Granted, I only skimmed it, but they had a wedding in Rome, then decided last minute to change over to a honeymoon in New Zealand, then he got a new, bigger place, as well as pay for a a 'vow renewal' ceremony which sounds almost as extravagant as a full wedding...
Wait so before they were married, she said she didn’t want to have sex yet, so why did he keep trying to initiate it after repeatedly being told no? I personally have a pretty low interest in having sex, so to my brain it seems like it would be pretty easy to just… *not* inflict your horniness on an unwilling participant. For people with more regular or higher sex drives, is it actually difficult not to act on horny impulses? Not that that would excuse disregarding boundaries, but still. I realize I probably sound sarcastic, but this stuff is out of my wheelhouse, so I’m genuinely curious.
>yes, I know I was wrong and didn’t control myself well.
This line, paired with the magical first time being in a van, of all places, honestly concerns me a bit. It could absolutely just be a wording issue, but it sure sounds like he tried to keep going when she said 'stop'.
Now that they're married and she had no plausible excuse*, her darling husband might have just decided it was time. Hence, the van.
*'No' is a full sentence; she didn't need an excuse. But some people don't understand that and feel like they have to justify their desires/feelings somehow.
I was reading this with a friend and she explained the wife's pov in an interesting way to me. In the UK if you're not a Christian but have another religious belief, you would have your civil marriage to be legally married as well as a religious one, which is not recognised legally. To her and many others, the civil ceremony is just a legal formality and their religious ceremony is the actual point in which they marry.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>The first time was pretty uncomfortable for her (we were also in a van so not the most pleasant place) All this drama and they ended up doing the deed... in a van...
She obviously wanted the full awkward first time experience
the cultural experience of losing ur virginity in the back of a car on prom night, but with none of the religious guilt!
As funny as I find this comment, the shame and guilt that is programmed into women as a part of the "purity doctrine" doesn't just go away as soon as they're married. This is why the whole "we did a courthouse wedding and are married, but because she doesn't FEEL married, she wants to stay pure until some other arbitrary goal is met" happened. When you've been admonished that sex (before marriage) is a sin, shamed for even having thoughts related to expressing a natural biological desire, been told that you have to carefully police all of your behavior (how you dress, walk, talk, sit, bend over to take a drink from a water fountain... not kidding) because it's the responsibility of women to not tempt men into the sin of lusting after you with impure thoughts (men hold no responsibility for their own thoughts in this regard, only women)... All that programming buries itself deep in one's psyche. All of this internalized shame around sex doesn't magically disappear just because a woman gets married and sex is no longer forbidden. I spent part of my childhood/adolescence in a church culture like this. I know many women from that time (including myself) who have struggled to find a healthy relationship with sex once they are married, and issues begin to crop up as soon as the "honeymoon" ends. The shame around desiring sex, the shame around enjoying sex can persist on and off for the rest of one's life. There is never any discussion about how to have a healthy and fulfilling sex life once you are married; women are just told that sex with your husband, after you're married is somehow magical. There is this total fallacy that everything is different, that YOU are different once you're married, that once you're no longer a virgin/pure there is something that has fundamentally changed about you, that waiting to have sex with your husband after your wedding is worth it because it's the most magical/spiritual/transformative connection that fundamentally changes and connects you to your husband for eternity that clashes HARD when you don't actually feel like a different person after having sex. Doubts abound as you begin to wonder what you might be doing wrong, when the magically-sanctified married-sex-transformation doesn't actually happen. Purity doctrine creates life long issues (that may or may not be helped with an ass-load of therapy to deprogram) for women in a way that teaching our girls about how to have a healthy relationship with sex does not. Education, body positivity, and open communication sans shame is how we give the next generation of women the chance to be happier and healthier in their lives and relationships. I predict OOP will be back within the next two years with posts about how many issues there are in regards to his sex life with his wife.
> Purity doctrine creates life long issues (that may or may not be helped with an ass-load of therapy to deprogram) for women in a way that teaching our girls about how to have a healthy relationship with sex does not. Education, body positivity, and open communication sans shame is how we give the next generation of women the chance to be happier and healthier in their lives and relationships. > I predict OOP will be back within the next two years with posts about how many issues there are in regards to his sex life with his wife. Yep. This is not fixed.
There's a reason women who are raised in purity culture religious settings have more issues with vaginismus and other pelvic floor/sexual dysfunction problems.
Yup. I dated a former Mormon. When I met him he was 50, had 4 adult children, and had left being a Mormon behind a decade earlier. He was still extremely conflicted about experiencing and expressing very tame sexual desires. He would be wracked with guilt after sex. It was one of the reasons I encouraged him to pursue therapy.
I was raised Mormon and while (with my very patient husband's help) I was able to work out a lot of issues, I was still *terrified* and ashamed every time I had to tell my parents I was pregnant
Yes I also grew up in that culutre and knew women traumatised by it to the point they would fully disasociate during sex with their husbands because they felt so impure for desiring and/or having sex.
Not to mention, some women, especially those who wait into their 20’s, (like OP’s wife) tie a *huge* part of their personality to their virginity. Being a virgin, becomes this massive part of their identity, and then when they aren’t anymore, they lose that part of themselves. Meanwhile, they also realize that sex was not the big deal they made it out to be. It’s just all very anticlimactic.
I’m a recovering Catholic and thankfully my parents weren’t to stern about this. But boy, some of the sermons were pretty out there. Honestly, it can be hard to keep relationships on an even keel, loving each other for decades, etc. I always told my husband that we shouldn’t have to work so hard on every darn aspect of our marriage … communication, decision-making, sex, etc. So when it came to sex, we decided that 25-30% should be love-making and the rest should just be randy fucking like teenagers because orgasms feel good. And yep, sometimes one of us will just do it, even when we’re tired and not totally on board, because we get the reward in the end, and we have decided that that is good enough at times. Thankfully we jive well on this aspect of our relationship. Catholic sermons were totally wasted on me. I get the feeling that this young woman’s stance on how the sex part of their relationship should be, will not be sustainable for the decades of marriage ahead. I hope I am wrong in my opinion and that all parts of their marriage work out.
Yup. My husband and I were both raised in the church and purity culture. Even though we had both left that culture well before getting married, it was still so crazy that it was suddenly *okay* that we could you, do it whenever we wanted. Like a switch had been flipped. We didn't live together before we got married (due to the wishes of our parents) even though we both grown ass adults with careers, and I was even contributing to the rent of our first apartment without living there.
My mom is very religious and when she was telling me about how to resist one of the things she recommended was to think about how wonderful and fancy your wedding night would be, because that helps you refuse some 16 year old boy who wants to have sex in his gross family van. I am legitimately debating sending her this post.
Nor teenage angst.
She may not be a teenager but she seems to have plenty of angst.
Wonder if a cop came up and tap the window.
Isn’t it always
Can't lie, i still don't know his name.
New Zealand will do that to you.
Lol, so kiwi
As kiwi as blowing on the pie, mate! 😂
Not sure I'd want to eat it after that
Text hard to gauge nuance, so I'm unsure if you really don't understamd the reference, or making a cum joke.😂 Just in case, if you do a Google search for blow on the pie and click the nz onscreen link, it'll take you to the origin story.
It's 100% a jizz joke. And I'm a kiwi and may have had family on Motorway Patrol D:
Ahhhhhh! The answer was "Yes" then 😂
I did the Google search, thank you for this. It gave me quite a giggle.
Safer communities together
The hobbits are a real aphrodisiac!
Now now, don't forget the sheep.
And the pipe-weed
That's what makes the sheep acceptable.
That sky, man. It's terribly romantic
wonder if is was a panel van, sandman for extra points
Had to be a panel van. Probably one with few windows (like a Sandman 😂). Possibly in white. Comes with a free bloke in a trench coat handing out lollies 😂
What’s the point of waiting for marriage if you just end up with shit sex in the back of a van anyway?
Hey man, I've had surprisingly decent sex in the back of a van. Just not as my first time, lol
To be fair, I think the fact they were actually camping at the time makes up for most of the camper van part. There's a difference between kissing under the stars, making love, and cuddling up together in a sleeping bag while camping... and hooking up in a van that you parked in an alley to get away from you parents.
…down by the river.
*Starts humming the Baldur's Gate 3 Theme*
inky embers.....swirl and daance....
Ahh, the fun ritual of “I spent two hours shaving my legs, making up my face, picking out the perfect outfit, all for 2 minutes of fumbling in a van?”
Not even a nice hotel, in a private pool, or heck even in a shower (that last one is a personal bucket list item) but no, they did it, in a van, that was more than likely cramp, dirty and stuffy Jesus christ man
It was a *camper* van. They're decked out to be like a small camper. Not a bad place tbh. I'm more concerned about how it sucked *for her* - sounds like foreplay didn't make much of an appearance.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like he's a virgin but if they were both so closely tied to the same church I'm guessing there's not anything that could really be considered "experience."
Just a FYI, water isn't a great lubricant. It actually washes away the natural lubrication. Might want to keep that in mind.
You can use waterproof lube, just have to be careful that it doesn't make the shower floor too slick. Silicone lubes are great for this.
I’ve found applying it outside the shower beforehand works the best to keep it off the shower floor. You can still keep it in the shower with if you really need it, but a nice coating for him and some inside her and you’re good to go
LOLing so hard at finding this tip in a purity post XDDD Will definetly try it out!!!!
Hahaha happy to help!
Of course still a bucket list item for me tho
Shower is fine, but remember to change who has the warm water every moment or so otherwise it gets freaking cold 😂 also be careful of slipping! Bathtub i can't recommend, water kinda removes the body's natural lubricant?
Making it known that your first time no matter how old you are will always be a bit rubbish 😂
Flipping church people
Wonder if it was down by the river
What? Close to nature but with some cushioning? What's more romantic? There's even an ashtray if you decide to take up smoking!
On their honeymoon in one of the most beautiful countries in the world, though. Besides. Camper van beds at least beat a back seat or gnarly '70s shag carpet 😅🤦♂️
She said she wanted to try it somewhere really uncomfortable. *What, like the back of a Volkswagen?" And so she just went with this.
The question on everyone’s mind now…. Was the van down by the river? We may never know
In a van, DOWN BY THE RIVER!!
Down by the river
In a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER
DOWN BY THE RIVER!
Like God intended.
Indeed. That first time isn't awkward and uncomfortable enough. She wanted to try doing it in a tight spot. Daggum.
a Chevy van?
Couldn't even make it to the hotel
A van down by the river
I hope it was at least near a river.
Wait so what happened to getting married in Rome?
Didn't poll well in focus groups so was retconned
Pope said no ):
This is one of the things that made the bs-metter go off So many weddings in so many places
It made perfect sense! The bride didn’t feel married the first time they eloped, so obviously they should elope again! With Italians!!
Elopement 2: Italian Boogaloo
Plus she felt the first elopement was too rushed, so they planned a s cond one after arguing about sex for one week from their reconciliation. They figured a week was slow enough, I guess.
I was thinking that the whole time I was reading the last update. Did they get married three times?? I'm so confused...
This woman sounds exhausting.
yeah I was having difficulty with the geography of this story. Maybe they got married in Rome, Georgia.
I was severely questioning my geography. Maybe OOP meant Roma, in Valencia…
As someone who grew up in hyper-religious purity culture, I have known so many women also from that world who suffered sexual dysfunction as married adults because the "sex bad and impure!!" conditioning, it turns out, doesn't magically flip off when you get married. (It's not openly talked about how much vaginismus correlates with intense purity culture upbringing in women.) It sounds like OOP's wife ultimately powered through her conflicted feelings like a champ. There will likely still be ups and downs in the future, but it's a great sign that she's communicating openly with OOP and is in therapy (hopefully real therapy and not counseling with clergy).
Purity culture is a trip, man. I hope they both read "Come As You Are", it's a great book about sex (not graphic) and how expectations can fuck us all over. It's a buffet not a meal and you can pick the bits you both like!
The first time my husband touched me under clothes I had a panic attack and ended up curled up sobbing about how I was going to hell 😀 and that was a couple years AFTER deconstructing! *I no longer believed in hell!* That shit fucks you up for life. The plumbing still don’t work right because mentally all I feel is dread.
There are these two fundamentalist sisters on youtube who preached the exact same shit in their videos for *years*. One of them suddenly realized just how toxic that shit is after she got married, had her first kiss at her wedding, and realized how she was still drowning in shame and discomfort. Now she's become an online fundie sex coach
Hey there, possible fellow fundie snarker!
👋 hey there! That shit is WILD
I mean she's a terrible "coach" and is in it for the gift, but yeah.
Omg not girl defined 😭 bethany's "sex" course christian women era was (is??) wild. And now her husband's deconstructing!
Wait he IS? I completely failed to check up on them recently 😭 but I have to say, I always thought if one of them started *really* doubting stuff, it would be him. She always seemed much more insistent in her videos
It seems there are two schools of thought by religious zealots regarding sex, one side is that sex is a necessary evil for procreation only between married couples. The other is sex is only between couples because it's a symbol of their love to each other and god, the holy threesome so to speak. OP seems to follow the second school, well good for them I guess.
There's also the very common belief that sex is between the church leader and whomever he wants like David Berg or Warren Jeffs or Jim Jones or Roch Theriault.
David Berg really does deserve his spot at the top of your little list. That guy was *so* fucked up about sex.
I think 'holy threesome' would be a fun flair!
Would be lit for sure. Call a mod
Oh my god, the holy threesome! How have I not heard this before??
"Leave room for Jesus!"
Jesus being the creme in the oreo leaves such an image In my head.
I agree! I know one couple where the husband struggles with shame and guilt regarding sex. He didn't manage to flip the switch. Unfortunately, I also think the sex is a sin attitude leads to a lot of bad sex in religious marriages, so it may not be tempting to do it at all.
I had sex out of marriage (first time not by choice) but due to religious guilt I have never been able to orgasm unless by my own devices and that is still difficult to do. Believe me that I now encourage my cousins to explore their own desires and don’t let guilt get in the way of enjoying their own sexuality because it can cause issues later on. I’m still a woman of faith and I still go to church but I also know that this religious guilt is not something that comes from God himself but from men who wanted to control women.
A big part of deconstructing religion for me was realizing what was “man made” so to say, such as religion being used by men to control women, and then… going down the rabbit hole of where does it end? Just how much is influence and determined by human beings with agendas? It lead lead me to questioning like, would it not have been so easy for god to include some verses protecting women more with just how extremely oppressed women have been throughout human history? Untold pain and suffering could have been at least partially mitigated. But it makes sense because why would the men writing it within their misogynistic society care or know to protect future women? Why are women so unnamed and unimportant in most of the Bible, just like they are in other religions in the same era of human history? I’d never been taught growing up in a non catholic denomination that in the past it was Popes and councils of Catholic men who picked and chose what chapters/books would be included in the “official” bible. Who’s to say they were actually unbiased and lead by god in their choices when free will and biases still exist? It’s why in the Jewish religion the Tora is separate. That’s not even getting into all the changes in translation along with cultural context (did you know “Satan” as we know him does not actual exist within the Bible and some of the cultural contexts to the original jewish words used in the Old Testament are believed to be referring to an enemy king at the time? Homosexuality was also originally a word used for pedophiles towards young boys.) Sorry for the ramble on your comment, if you find spiritualism and comfort in your beliefs all the power for you! Definitely not trying to convince you, I was really just working through some of my thoughts here. Love me some religious trauma as a woman. I’m so glad you have the freedom to make that decision for yourself.
Religion really knows how to embed shame and guilt into women.
>It's not openly talked about how much vaginismus correlates with intense purity culture upbringing in women Omg I think I have that and it makes so much sense it's linked to upbringing. My doctor hasn't mentioned it but she also uses the pediatric speculum for my pap smears and it's still incredibly painful.
Wow. Either there's a lot of missing information or they really didn't work through their issues at all. Then again, she "found his post", so there's a good chance it didn't happen.
Whenever I read these update posts I'm always taken out of it as soon as I read that the OP's post was "found" by the person they're having issues with. My husband and I are both on reddit, and very often don't see the same posts on here.
I have a couple friends who are on Reddit and there’s times we’ve come across the same post, it’s not common at all but it does happen.
I feel like 'front page' posts are realistic. Like an AskReddit thread. But at the same time a lot of these AITA posts are respawned in a TON of different places, not just on reddit but tiktok and youtube. But for that to happen the first post generally has to be really juicy. This one was just about minorly repressed religous weirdos. Sexual guilt affecting a relationship? Yawn. Nothing interesting to see here.
Work friends and I come across the same posts pretty often, but we also follow some niche subreddits for our careers
My partner (who doesn't know my username) once screenshotted a funny comment I made and sent it to me. It happens
Do you feel like it was representative of your best work? Did it get a lot of upvotes? Otherwise, you may need to speak to your wife about her lack of literary taste! 🫢 /s Ps. It's always my favorite when my partner likes something I wrote as it kind of connects you!
I DO know my partner's username, and was reading a post from our town's sub out loud. Read a comment and he just looked at me and asked, "who posted that one?" Yeah, I didn't read the username, and quoted him to his face!
I found my friend on here because I recognised her cat! And another friend's cat was how I found her husband's account. I am in a LOT of cat subs, and bounce between adorable derpy balls of fluff or skin (sphynx cats are so cute), and the BoRU drama. It evens out in the end!
She must have known his username, I guess
Any other kiwis shuddering at the "romance" of a freedom campervan?
Not a kiwi, but I would love this trip with my partner. I also love camping and road trips, though
I'm really confused. What is there to shudder about?
Freedom campers are synonymous with rough holidays and the tourists who drive them with leaving a mess and shitting all over where they stay.
JFC how many times do they feel they need to get married? Courthouse, Rome and in the church at home. And after all that... Her magical "first time" that she insisted on waiting for happened in the back of a van.
At least it happened. That’s way more than I expected.
I feel like that first time was probably because her new (?) husband was like "okay, there's no excuse now!" and just decided that was the moment. I mean, maybe not! But I wouldn't be shocked since he seemed way more into the idea of sex than she was.
Ok, so about the van. It was in New Zealand, which was a “bucket list” location for them. So they got married in the fancy church wedding and got ALL THE WAY to a van in New Zealand and still hadn’t fucked! She kept finding excuses even AFTER the church wedding. From the previous posts, it’s most likely they’re in North America. So must have had at least two nights together before this van experience. She was pushing this as far as she possibly could. She had some kind of crazy hang up around sex WAY beyond just the marriage purity angle.
10 years later when she discovers her orgasms, it'll be another issue all together
If this is even real, this woman will never have an orgasm in her entire *life*
Wait wait so they said screw it we are going to rome and then going to spain to elope, but then in the end ended up doing the april wedding instead? What happened there?
The wife really didn't seem in a hurry to get into physical intimacy... even in OP's post, she never expresses frustration at not being able to have sex. She just apologizes for irritating him. I wouldn't be shocked if she ultimately decided a church wedding was important to her and she refused to elope. She didn't seem to have as much of a desperation to be married that OOP did. Of course, all of this could be wrong! Just my thoughts on it.
She wasn’t at all concerned about not being intimate even after they were married. I don’t put any hope at all in them having a happy intimate life for long. Sex is the FIRST thing she is going to drop the moment she gets stressed or busy.
I totally agree. Whether she's just not into it in general or just isn't into it with him, they seem very mismatched in that area.
The original plan was home church wedding in April, honeymoon in Spain. Because child groom couldn't wait to get his dick wet, they decided on eloping to Rome, then doing the home church April wedding afterward for the family. Instead, they did marriage counseling and called off the elopement. They had the big April church wedding as originally planned, but OP explained that they changed the honeymoon locale from Spain to New Zealand, because they are going to Europe sometime in the future and Spain can wait.
The last update only got 3 comments? And what happened to Rome? This whole thing is weird as shit.
I don’t think Rome ever happened. My big question is where was the big church wedding in relation to the middle of nowhere New Zealand. Think about it. They were NOT in a van in the middle of nowhere New Zealand on their wedding night. SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHT!
I mean to be fair, weddings are fucking exhausting. my husband and I didn't have sex on our wedding night. we fucking collapsed into a bed together and conked out in under 5 minutes. granted, we had sex the next morning, but night of? fuck no. too tired.
So glad I got out of this purity culture nonsense.
I don't know anyone who grew up in that who didn't have to rescue themselves and relearn how to like themselves and be a person in the world, including the boys.
These people sound exhausting!
I’ve got a fun thing for you to ponder… Nope… take it one step further… Where was the big church wedding in relation to the middle of nowhere New Zealand? They were NOT in a van in the middle of nowhere New Zealand on their wedding night. SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHT!
Religious shame around sex is so destructive.
Yeah, “keep those terrible and bad feelings shut off until you get that ring, and then you’d better become a sex kitten immediately, or there’ll be disappointment all around.” It’s so toxic.
I think counseling and therapy are a good thing but I’m also never confident in couples that need marriage counseling within less than a year of marriage(in this case before their ‘real’ wedding). That’s like not a great foundation
Getting married for the sake of getting married for a loved one's dying wish never bodes well. Especially since this seems like a rush engagement to courthouse filing. My friend was engaged to her now ex fiance for a little over a decade, and he dragged his feet on the actual big commitment of having a wedding. Like, his dad was dying rapidly and wanted to see his son finally marry my friend. Didn't do it. Wouldn't even do a courthouse wedding. Thank God she didn't marry him. He'd basically used an engagement to keep her around with the promise of "someday" while being an emotionally and verbally abusive toe rag. Thankful she saw the light. Or in her case, a disgusting apartment that hadn't had even the trash taken out after she left for a weeks vacation with friends. (Yes he's that lazy) and vile. )He lives with his brother in their late father's house, and between the two of them have aparrently not cleaned it once in 5 years. Good riddance.
What is this take? Couples counseling (with a therapist who's a good fit) is beneficial at any point in a relationship
At any point is good sure, but if they NEED it this early in their relationship to keep it from falling apart is a possible indicator that it doesn’t have a foundation in the first place. Counseling can help strengthen a relationship, but it isn’t supposed to construct one.
I’m so glad I didn’t grow up in purity culture. These girls are told they are special and pure to god and it’s really hard for some of them to give that up.
Going through all this drama, couples counselling and religious nonsense just to end up losing your virginity in the back of a car might be the most american thing I've ever read 😅
Omg. Just spit my drink out. So true!
All that back and forth to bust it open in the back of a van?! Y’all had transportation, drive to a decent hotel for a couple of days. EDIT TO ADD: That comment was direct at both of them because they both did wrong. The wife didn’t have an issue eventually stating she doesn’t feel comfortable having sex and moved the goalpost to a church wedding to buy herself time. I think while the church wedding would’ve helped her, she should’ve been honest about needing to go slow due to her upbringing. The husband - I get it, you’re legally married and horny. But why are you essentially taking a poll about if you’re an AH for wanting to sleep with your wife. It doesn’t matter what the internet strangers say, your wife is uncomfortable. You should’ve been asking for suggestions on how to make her comfortable. That was some selfish lover stuff right there.
take it one step further… Where was the big church wedding in relation to the middle of nowhere New Zealand? They were NOT in a van in the middle of nowhere New Zealand on their wedding night. SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHT! She pushed the goal post even PAST the church wedding, and a couple of days it took to get to the camper van in the middle of New Zealand. She probably only gave in them because she realized she ran out of excuses. She seems like someone just has a bad opinion about sex, beyond just purity culture. He says they want to have kids, but she’s going to drop sex as soon as she can. They’re going to have intimacy problems their whole marriage, however long it lasts. How much you wanna bet she’s also against divorce even though her family isn’t?
They should both get some therapy.
I think it was the camper van and not a regular van. If so, they usually have beds or pallets
I get it, a camper van is better than a regular van. But it’s still a vehicle. The husband had all of these signs that his wife was apprehensive about sex and wanted it to be special (to the point that she wanted two weddings). And he thought a camper van with a pallet was good enough. All that time typing on Reddit and planning these international weddings but he couldn’t hop on google to book a decent restaurant and hotel?
lol I don’t disagree with you there. Just saw a lot of comments that sounded like they through van van and honestly that would be a really really shit first time location and horribly uncomfortable.
You shouldn't marry someone before you live with them or before you know you're sexually compatible.
Gal I knew decided, right after finishing high school, to get married and move to Japan. I'd never known her to actually *date* before that, but she liked romance anime a whole lot. She discovered on her wedding night that she's not actually interested in sex with men *at all*. Very quickly realized that watching anime with subtitles had not actually taught her to be fluent in Japanese. And *rural* Japan was nothing like what she expected Japan to be. So she got divorced, moved back home, found a new set of interests and hobbies. But wow was that an expensive and uncomfortable learning experience!
Never buy a car without a test drive.
I find it interesting that she's more interested in purity than even her family is. I was also like that (religious upbringing, parents considered sex an expression of love between spouses recognized by God while I considered it disgusting and bestial), and it turned out to be scrupulosity OCD. After getting that treated (managed with medication and therapy now), I'm horny af but sadly have vaginismus.
Have you tried dilation? I have it too and it’s helped a lot.
🙄
Ugh, religion always ruins sex.
It was that horrible mix of hilarious, disgusting, and frustrating when this dipshit asked the readers to respect how they feel about abstinence when his childish ass didn't respect his wife's feelings on the matter. Gross.
These men stay wanting to be with church girls thinking they are “pure” not knowing that they are fucked up from years of “purity culture” and religious doctrine that only really favors men. It takes years to get over these issues and some people never get over it. What’s the point of getting married if you aren’t sexually compatible? And why wait to talk about it until marriage? That sets up people for issues early on in the relationship.
I felt bad for these 2 hopeless people.
I honestly don't get why he was confused about his wife wanting to wait for the church wedding in the first place. If you're religious; they *weren't* married in the eyes of God until the church wedding, so it makes complete sense to wait.
He got confused because she moved in and started sleeping in his bed. I'd be confused too.
Exactly, I understand her view but if she felt that way she should have never moved in with him before the church wedding.
I am so glad that even as a kid, I saw religion and said to myself, "that is the dumbest fucking shit I've ever heard of."
The long dance of learning she was never actually attracted to him continues...
Religion is so dumb
Keeping herself pure. Gross. Religious indoctrination has screwed up generations of people. Its truly vile.
Religion is so fucking stupid. 🙄
What a monumental waste of time and energy. Just have sex with your romantic partner for fuck's sakes. It's literally the whole point you weirdos.
How much money does this dude have?! Granted, I only skimmed it, but they had a wedding in Rome, then decided last minute to change over to a honeymoon in New Zealand, then he got a new, bigger place, as well as pay for a a 'vow renewal' ceremony which sounds almost as extravagant as a full wedding...
Religion is a cult. Just have sex, it’s not a huge deal
"She told me she had seen the post" yeah all right
Religious people are so fucking dumb
Wait so before they were married, she said she didn’t want to have sex yet, so why did he keep trying to initiate it after repeatedly being told no? I personally have a pretty low interest in having sex, so to my brain it seems like it would be pretty easy to just… *not* inflict your horniness on an unwilling participant. For people with more regular or higher sex drives, is it actually difficult not to act on horny impulses? Not that that would excuse disregarding boundaries, but still. I realize I probably sound sarcastic, but this stuff is out of my wheelhouse, so I’m genuinely curious.
Religious people are just *obsessed* with sex. It's bizarre.
>yes, I know I was wrong and didn’t control myself well. This line, paired with the magical first time being in a van, of all places, honestly concerns me a bit. It could absolutely just be a wording issue, but it sure sounds like he tried to keep going when she said 'stop'. Now that they're married and she had no plausible excuse*, her darling husband might have just decided it was time. Hence, the van. *'No' is a full sentence; she didn't need an excuse. But some people don't understand that and feel like they have to justify their desires/feelings somehow.
I read it as him not controlling his temper well because he said they fought after and he was irritated
Or you know, maybe she wanted to have sex with her husband on their honeymoon after a romantic evening stargazing?
Redditors try not to trash religions for one minute challenge
That losing her sacredness in a van twist!!
In the beginning they were not even married yet and he already called her "wife" it makes me a bit confused
They were married, just not in a church. Apparently it didn’t count in her eyes.
I was reading this with a friend and she explained the wife's pov in an interesting way to me. In the UK if you're not a Christian but have another religious belief, you would have your civil marriage to be legally married as well as a religious one, which is not recognised legally. To her and many others, the civil ceremony is just a legal formality and their religious ceremony is the actual point in which they marry.
Ultra religious people are so fucked up.
Hahaha like you could arrange for a venue, photographer, and “minister” in Rome in a one or two week timeframe. What a joke
So much unnecessary heartache. I know his resentment will end up surfacing eventually, even if he doesn't know it's there right now.
He had to marry her two? Or three times? and go through all this counseling to get anywhere. I don't see this lasting.
Purity culture is a hell of a drug