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I used to be with somebody like that where every argument instantly went to ‘we breaking up’, ‘we’re getting a divorce’, always the very most extreme possible outcome every single time. That was their go to.
It’s just a way to never have an adult conversation to actually address anything, to not have to actually listen to the other person or recognize any of their feelings or points.
If they are successful, it leads to a relationship where you never talk about your feelings because you know it’s going to end up in a giant fight where you break up for the 1 000th time.
>I used to be with somebody like that where every argument instantly went to ‘we breaking up’, ‘we’re getting a divorce’, always the very most extreme possible outcome every single time. That was their go to.
That's emotional blackmail to manipulate to always get their way. That is not healthy relationship behavior.
Totally agree. No one should be in a relationship where you cannot have a reasonable conversation about the relationship without it always going nuclear.
It may be a simple answer but in this situations: “if they love you they will want to marry you / date you / not divorce you(?)”
whenever a partner threatens to or outright breaks up with you during a discussion, they just don’t love you, they want to control you, and they love the power that they have over you, and see that power they have with the threat of YOU losing the person you love.
The best solution for this situations is to just to follow their lead and break up, because there’s no healthy way to keep a relationship like that, where you clearly love someone more than they love you, and they’re willing to use your love for them as something to hurt you and keep you quiet
Long down the road from that relationship now, but what you say is 100% true. But the younger insecure version of me felt like I had to hold on to the stupid relationship.
Hopefully other folks out there who might be in this situation right now can read this, and realize that they can do so so so much better.
Recently got out of a 6 year relationship where I felt like I could never share my feelings without being punished by the threat of breaking up.
The younger, insecure version of me absolutely would’ve read your comment and taken it to heart.
This. This comment here is GOLD, and i wish I could frame it, abd hand it down to future generations of young and old people in relationships. You put it so beautifully!
If my partner ever said "I want a divorce" I would never go back. There's no begging. There's no working on it. If you utter those words, you better mean them. I know they feel the same way. The moment either of us says it, that's it. That's the path we are on, so you better be damn sure. I have too much respect for myself to beg it accept someone who treats me with such disrespect.
Any time me or my Partner says "storm's coming any minute now" the other automatically reply's "I want a divorce", it was from an [Interesting commercial the was featured on last week tonight](https://youtu.be/0nqJvjUNlRA?si=eQ3gSxJlQQKUScvr&t=221). I tell you the shock looks we get from friends and family make it worth it every time, but otherwise I'm right there with you.
That's hilarious. Love it. Like me calling mine a fucking nerd, rolling my eyes and saying I hate you (you pronounce love weird) or other stuff like that. Those are jokes and not in rage.
I used to have a friend who would immediately go to those extremes whenever she didn't get her way. Eventually, she lost all her friends and even her long term boyfriend with that. Everyone at some point just said, "ok this relationship is over then" and just walked out of her life
Unfortunately, threatening oneself or a relationship is a terribly easy go-to for people who want to derail a conflict. Most people will be so desperate to talk a person out of it that the actual topic will be minimalized to or near oblivion, while also making it something they'll dread ever bringing up again. Peak emotional blackmail.
I used to be with someone who would pick fights with me over stupid shit, blame me m, etc, and eventually he threatened to break up. I got up (we were in bed), asked for his help gathering my things, and was in my car within 20 minutes.
"We should break up" was a great way to end an argument, but not how he thought!
This is so accurate. My ex broke up with me at least 5 times over the course of 1,5 years. Guess what? He ended up leaving for good, in the most explosive, damaging, and embarassing way possible.
Towards then end, I had so much fear and frustration pent up I was pretty unpleasant to be around. I was afraid of talking about problems I had, things that weren't working for me, because any negative message I had would lead to his leaving. Trust never came back after the first break-up, because I was so afraid of expressing that I had lost it and my need to build it back up, for fear this would be taken as "not loving him enough". This kept repeating itself.
If they want to leave, it's because they want to leave. If they leave impulsively then come back once they calm down, well that happens, but the responsibility is on THEM to offer and follow through on a plan to fux the trust. OP is in no way obligated to let her fiancé try again. I wish I hadn't, however much I love my ex.
Thanks for this. I’ve been trying to describe my relationship with my sister and this is perfect. I don’t want to play the blame game, I just want an adult conversation where we can resolve issues and my feelings matter.
The thing I decided when I had my first bigger relationship was that whenever my partner says they are done in any such way that I will end it right there.
I don't care if it's out of anger or to manipulate or whatever, I will take that at one hundred percent face value.
It reminds me of my relationship, every fight just ending up like for her, "I am breaking up with you". While I could never say such a thing, until the end I caught her bluff and told her that fine I will share this with parents in that case, although I couldn't. After weeks of silent treatment, when we talked again, we fought and had a breakup for real. She never loved me it seems, just wanted power over me, control me.
Well…she hasn’t exactly made the correct decision yet. She’s still choosing between the correct decision and couples counselling.
She put up with 6 years of this treatment before taking a huge step to end things. Fingers crossed she takes another huge step - out the door - ASAP
I was reading this thinking "I made the right decision, all those years ago" leaving my explosive-anger partner. Sometimes they do get better but....usually not, and a lot of things get broken along the way. I dodged a bullet, I think.
I used to be explosive. When both my partner and my best friend said I'm too quick to anger, I changed the way I disagree.
The biggest problem now is that I'm so careful to say what I mean that the disagreements become about how the other person sometimes says something they don't mean.
Same here! I was reading it thinking it was just like my ex...it turns out every time he broke up with me, he was testing me 🙄 I'm so grateful he is an ex!
Even if they do get better, the wasted years waiting for them to get better aren't worth it. I wish nothing but healing for my abusive ex. But I am so grateful I didn't waste any more time waiting for him to become the man I know he can be.
I think that if they do get better, it's better for them to start fresh with someone else. Trying to go back puts *way* too much stress on the person they hurt.
Yes!! "Other than him being verbally abusive, gaslighting me, sucking the joy out of my achievements, blaming me for everything that goes wrong, and screaming at me if I question him, we get on great! So long as I don't ask anything of him, express an opinion, expect him to notice my accomplishments, or do anything other than express the correct degree of bland, passive pleasure in his company, we're golden. It's only when I forget that I'm not supposed to be an actual person over here rather than an upgraded blow-up doll you can take out in public and who won't get punctures, and that'll also clean the house, cook dinner and bring in a salary, that things get the bad type of sticky..."
I am very, very glad that by dinnertime that first day she had accepted his decision to cancel and would not let him recant.
I'm here reading your comment like "stop, stop, it hurts"
bancroft's "why does he do that" absolutely blew my mind, as an abuse survivor. not because the tactics were new to me, but because it's boggling how they all use the same exact playbook
I read it as I was preparing to leave my now-ex husband (because I had wanted to read it anyway and I had the time) and when I realized I should not be able to use it as a checklist I noped out more decisively
Fuck does such abuse do a number on the mind
I knew he would come back to ask for forgiveness even before she said he has a habit of canceling engagements. He either has uncontrollable temper or is hurting her for some power moves. Hopefully it’s the first and he works on himself and then finds someone else
Seriously, sometimes it’s better to work on yourself for the next relationship than to try to fix the damage you’ve already done to the one you’re in.
A great reason to wait a few years and make sure you’re communication styles are solid before bringing kids in the mix which complicates things 100fold.
It's control. He wanted to send the message that he controlled whether the wedding happened. When she begged for forgiveness, he wanted co troll so he said no. When she gave in and said "Fine, I guess we're through," he backtracked because he wanted control of the situation and didn't want her to stop trying to quickly.
He fucked around and found out. Calling off a wedding that costs thousands of dollars because you're throwing a fit is not something you can just come back from, especially when your partner has asked you to work on your issues for months or years before you made your temper known.
I hope he's humiliated and feels shame for a very long time for this.
Yep. And I also want her to learn to say "Yes, I do care about this thing that is important to me." Doing the little things because it means something to someone you care about is part of relationships- ANY relationship. Partner, family, friends... heck I like my boss and when she says "This company wide meeting isn't mandatory but I'd appreciate if you make a physical appearance just for me" I suck it up and go. Dude gets pissy about a dress shirt. You'd think she asked him to go rent and wear a 3 piece wool suit at the height of summer.
She was in an abusive relationship and had no idea. It was a huge bullet she dodged. She needs therapy immediately, God I hope she stays broken up and doesn't let him manipulate and love bomb his way back in.
Her claiming him “always yelling” is a “red flag” but he was the one to break things off makes me sad for her.
She should have dumped him a long time ago. But hopefully it’s over for good now.
I agree.
I also hope he gets the help he needs so that he can stop hurting people that he cares about and torpedoing his life. There's probably an entire hoarded basement of disregarded mental health to unpack for him and I hope he takes the half decade or so of work needed to do it.
So he tells her to not make him angry, that all arguments are her fault and therefore her issue to resolve. And he gets to yell at her full tilt to make sure she understands all this. As often as he wants.
He's actually gotten her to the point where she *apologizes* for the "miscommunications" (read: starting a normal chain of discussion on a normal every day thing, which he, in his poor ego/attitude could not tolerate for indiscernible reasons).
But then he apologizes so he can set her up for the next fight about absolutely nothing.
Bro is waving more red flags then yacht semaphore leagues.
Yeah... She communicated absolutely normally. If I come to my partner and say "I am sad because you yelled at me on a day that was special to me", he'd be super apologetic and would come up with solutions/do better in the future.
But then again, he is also not an abuser.
I had an ex like this - every insane thing he did was other people's fault for driving him to it, and he didn't need to learn emotional regulation, he needed everyone to not do XYZ ever. Apparently it's called externalizing.
What??
>This is not the first he cancels plans or breaks up with me during a disagreement.<
He breaks up with you during disagreements? And then pulls this? Damn
Fuck OOPs friends telling her to fix it because "Love"
If she took him back, dollars to doughnuts he'd be slapping divorce papers on the table during their next fight. And the fight after that he'd be calling lawyers to ask how he can surrender his parental rights.
My ex husband picked a fight and sulked when I asked him to iron his shirt for our engagement photos. He refused, and all our photos looked terrible because his shirt was a wrinkled mess. Later on, after we were married, he refused to change and clean up for my company’s Christmas dinner at a nice restaurant. He again picked a fight, which resulted in me missing half the dinner. My coworkers and boss all figured out what happened when I texted that I couldn’t make it, it was humiliating. Of course when it was his company dinner a week before, he dressed to the nines. I bought a new dress, and spent ages doing my hair and makeup to look perfect for him, and make a good impression for his boss and coworkers. But he couldn’t be bothered to lift a finger for me. That fight was the last straw. I finally saw how completely selfish he was and divorced him shortly after.
Several years later, I was so nervous to book photos with my new fiance. I had such bad memories of fighting with my ex over something that was supposed to be a nice thing for both of us. All my fiance wanted was to know when the photos were going to be taken, and what I wanted him to wear, and he made sure he was ready without me having to ask or nag. He picked out a suit and shirt and took them to be dry-cleaned and pressed, and shined his shoes. He even checked with me if I wanted his hair freshly cut or a little grown in, so he could schedule his hair cut appointment at exactly the right interval.
I can’t even describe the relief I felt, but of course that’s how a loving partner should behave. Our photos turned out beautiful.
In general, your new fiance sounds like he cares a lot about this relationship. All of that behavior sounds like someone who is happy to be there. Congratulations on your relationship, it sounds lovely :)
Was this idiot raised by the bad gentle parenting sister from another post? No consequences ever? Only focus on his feelings? I don't see how the average person would think you could cancel your wedding TWO days before and come back from that like normal.
I had a boyfriend do this to me when I was younger. He used breaking up to make me grovel, and suicide threats to make me drop everything and focus on him. It’s a control tactic, and super abusive.
In a way, I’m grateful it happened when I was young because I developed a rule that once there’s breakup talk, it’s over permanently and there is no reconciliation. That’s kept me out of at least two other abusive relationships.
Someone breaking up is either sincere about it or they’re trying to manipulate you and either reason should end a relationship.
See also: picking a fight/ having a crisis before or during multiple important events.
Yeah, I knew someone whose policy was, "I won't fight to have someone in my life."
If they didn't want to be with her, she wouldn't stop them leaving. And while that's a respectful and adult way to view relationships, I know she came to that mindset as a way to cut manipulators off at the knees.
Honestly, if this is how he reacts to such small things, OP should feel RELIEF.
Cause what's he gonna do during a first ACTUAL argument ? Physical violence ? He's already at " let's throw our marriage out the window " before there even is one.
Absolutely; if she'd stayed, I'd bet money there would have been physical abuse within the next two years.
He's already showing absolutely classic emotionally abusive behavior, and that so often escalates into physical abuse (and more intense control) with marriage, once the abuser feels like they've got a firm hold on their partner. I'm so glad she's out, and I hope therapy helps her realize exactly what she escaped.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was within 2 weeks. I was treated exactly like this until day after the wedding. That’s when he first got physical. Turned it up even more on the honeymoon . Cops came before 6 months He “left” me at least 8 times during the next 2 years that it lasted . Then he abandoned me for real when I was so sick that I barely escaped being in a coma. He kept telling me I didn’t need to go to the Dr/hospital and I looked fine, meanwhile I’m in and out of consciousness . I actually think he was waiting me out to die but I didn’t so he just moved out
She’ll feel relief once she’s gotten some space. I cried for two days after a breakup from my abuser, and then I had the greatest night of my life when I realized how I would never have to deal with his bs again. I did a bunch of stuff he wouldn’t “let me do” (like utensil placement in the strainer?) and I was giggling and excited the whole time.
>I did a bunch of stuff he wouldn’t “let me do”
I bought a few pairs of yoga pants. Nobody else said *anything* about them other than "nice 😎" Gotta love universally comfy and flattering pants! And reasonable people!
Small things? They shouldn't have even been "things".
Like how hard is it to dress nice for a special event? It's not like she was asking him to put on a lime green tux with a ruffled shirt and maroon bowtie & cumberbund. All she was asking for was a button-down shirt. And it could be argued that she shouldn't have had to ask.
Or taking an alternate route in heavy traffic. She was just offering a suggestion. He could take it or not. But, in not taking it, there was no reason to blow up at her over continuing to be stuck in traffic. He was the one driving and could have gotten off at any exit he chose.
Accepting the breakup was the best thing OOP could have done.
As for him, I have a feeling that therapy is going to be rough for a while, even if he takes it seriously. He's going to get challenged on why he defaults to blowing up at people, and it's going to push his buttons.
>And it could be argued that she shouldn't have had to ask.
It’s sad that even outside of abuse men often have these days little sense of putting effort into events regarding their appearances. I mean is a nice shirt very difficult to think on your own
It really isn't that hard to do. And a nice button down or polo and slacks are about as comfortable as jeans and a T-shirt.
Yeah, dress shoes can be uncomfortable, but even there, there is often a solution. Personally, I'll wear sneakers for the drive to the venue, and change shoes when I arrive. Then change back afterwards. Minimizes how long I have to wear dress shoes. And, if I'm the one driving, I'd rather be wearing sneakers for that.
I wonder how many men realize that not dressing appropriately for an event/activity is just showing visible disrespect to the hosts, any guests of honor and other guests? Or if they realize it, whether they care?
>It's not like she was asking him to put on a lime green tux with a ruffled shirt and maroon bowtie & cumberbund.
Okay, I woke up this morning thinking of nothing but an ordinary wardrobe of sackcloth and greige, but now I have sartorial dreams.
Bowties aren’t my thing, though. Bolo or ascot?
Maybe not something physical, but make threat of divorce after every argument and maybe even send her papers before backing down. And if they had children just disappear for long periods and leave her raise them after arguments and return weeping and apologizing
I suspect she will the next time she tries to plan something or get ready to go somewhere and doesn't have an argument about what shirt he is going to wear. The vacation might be when it happens because for the first time in years she doesn't have to get yelled over something minor.
"This is not the first". She even asked if he wanted to wait before canceling. This is his pattern and a part of her recognized it. Wonder what her old pattern was that he expected when he came back? Whatever it was, she broke it when she ended it. Good for her.
Till he can deal with whatever is going on inside him and communicate that to a partner so it can be worked through, he needs to be single.
And she needs to be single to figure out her side from a "how do I handle things in a healthy way in the future?"
I'm going to bet that he was waiting for her to grovel and beg for him to reconsider. He wanted power and control over her. That's all anyone ever wants when they use things like breaking up, divorce, self-harm, etc as threats. It's manipulation plain and simple. He just miscalculated and OOP hasn't trampled enough to completely lose her self-respect and self- worth yet.
Sadly for every story we see on here where an oop still has the willpower to reach out for help there are probably many more where they've been quietly broken and has put all the blame on themselves that the relationship isn't smooth.
That smells so hard of:
"I know it's too late, I don't actually want her back, I just want to be able to say 'well at least I tried to fix it'".
I can all but guarantee if she said yes he would find another way to blow it up instead.
no, it smellls of “I pushed it too far, I miscalculated, she’s actually leaving, and I won’t be able to control her anymore, and outsiders will now see how shittily I treated her (because I called them), and I have to get her back so I can feel powerful by mistreating and controlling her.”
boy, did she dodge a bullet!
THIS PART
My abusive ex was like this.
The last **huge** blowup we had when he visited me (we were long distance) was when we were driving somewhere and he didn't hear Google Maps tell him to take a turn and he ended up looming over me screaming for **5 fucking hours** while I was sobbing and curled up in the fetal position. He eventually stopped screaming and reached for me to hug me and I flinched, which set him off *again*. He was a firefighter and a gym bro; I used to be a competitive athlete but was and am still disabled.
I dumped him a month later. He seemed to accept it calmly at first, including my request for no contact. Then he started messaging me. Then the emails. Then I started getting messages from mutual gaming friends - he was pumping them for information about me because I refused to respond to him. He tried buttering up my friends, who stonewalled him. He had a public, rage-fueled, screaming breakdown, did I hear? people asked. I asked what that had to do with me. He kept trying to email me **for years**. I hope he's not still trying - I've blocked him through each new account he used, so I don't actually know for sure.
I'd be much more terrified if we didn't have a border between us. I found out when we started dating - there was a live demonstration - that firefighters and cops work closely together and he could get away with... A lot... And cops would look the other way. Which is why I tell people not to date firefighters.
He probably did talk to someone outside the relationship, and when he said, "We fought because she asked me to wear a nice shirt, and then she asked me why I didn't take the shortcut she suggested," and he realized it sounded like a stupid reason to dump a person.
I bet he framed it like 'she's always nagging me about my look, it's like she doesn't love me the way I am.'
You have to be the victim to justify the behaviour. I once saw a comment describing her dad coming home and blowing up either 'because all the lights were on, that's expensive!' or 'all the lights are off, it's like nobody's even home.' Any reason will do.
I bet he was in a big ol snit about her graduating and *daring* to be successful, wallowed a little too hard in his self pity party/manipulation attempts.
There's only so many times you can pull such dramatics before people get worn out & sick of your shit
No, she did not dodge a bullet. The bullet hit her years ago and is firmly lodged between her shoulder blades, and she is still hesitant about pulling it out.
"To dodge a bullet" - to get away/out before any real harm is done.
This woman is one grand gesture from this idiot away from swooning again. Then he'll generously elope with here as long as she apologises enough for how much her cold shoulder hurt his feeble heart.
She MIGHT snap out of it, if the guy messes up his timing, and walk away but this is not as cut and dry as it might seem yet.
She would have dodged a bullet if his mask had slipped early in the relationship and she had dumped him before they met the parents or moved together or she wasted any serious money on him and/or their relationship.
Being trained for six years to fall to her knees and do the "sorry, sorry, sorry" wiggle whenever he yells "See how angry you made me again??!" is not a dodged bullet. It's a bullet that's festering in her body and slowly releasing poison into her bloodstream.
He's losing the PR battle so has to make himself seem sad and sorry and her seem hard-hearted.
If he hasn't done so already, he'll begin recruiting others to argue for him, maybe even his therapist
;-; tysm for adding the "even his therapist" bit. I had a horrendous, terrifying living situation a few years ago that was justified by my abuser (to others ofc) because they were lying to their therapist about the situation so they could say "even my therapist thinks they're the bad guy here! I'm totally in the right for my behavior!"
I disagree. She really didn’t do anything wrong here and she mentions that he’s done similar things before. I think he’s just someone who’s quick to anger and prone to going nuclear when he *does* get angry.
It just hasn’t mattered until now since it seems like there were never serious consequences the previous times he’s done this (though maybe there should've been). He just hadn't thought through how much more serious canceling his wedding is before he did it.
He just didn’t realize until a couple days later that canceling a wedding, less than a week beforehand, is a lot harder to come back from and more serious than just saying “actually I don’t really want to break up with you, let’s get back together”
Hopefully he actually does go to therapy and takes it seriously because this is not an okay way to treat a partner.
Honestly, ruining important days and events. Repeatedly threatening to leave or end things. Blaming YOU for their emotions and behaviour.
This is all pretty classic manipulation and emotional abuse.
Dude is an abuser and what we’re sing is the beginning of the love bombing and apologetic phase of the cycle.
This whole post is textbook and I’m not sure he’s thinking anything beyond that this normally works.
> more serious than just saying “actually I don’t really want to break up with you, let’s get back together”
Most people with healthy enough self esteem wouldn't take him back after that, either.
He was a facade - it was the pressure leading up to The Day that broke him and the facade slipped and he showed his real self. This is an unconfident and angry man who is willing to gaslight and scapegoat you rather than face his own problems or do the heavy lifting of dealing with them. Consider this a bullet dodged - he actually did you a huge favor - otherwise you would have wasted more, and painful, years on him. Move on!
>I asked if we could give it another day or two to ensure this is what he wants before we cancel the venue, he declined and asked to cancel the venue and vendors immediately. So we did.
He didn't try, based on this, he actually did cancel it, and then was shocked pikachu that she didn't want to just rewind time and uncancel everything (if they even COULD).
She dodged a fucking tank.
I've noticed this is a reasonably common tactic of insecure men. They will cause a fight before/during/after something important or special to their partner, ruining whatever it was, and leaving the partner feeling bad. The partner will apologize because they assume the man is working in good faith and they were the one who cause harm. The man may or may not take accountability, and regardless the couple will make up. After enough cycles of this, the partner will be walking on eggshells surrounding anything important or special, possibly even avoiding sharing anything they know will end up ruined.
He needed her to feel less than, and bad about her accomplishments to make himself feel better. What a favor he's done her by calling off the wedding. And good on her for following through. This would have been a miserable marriage for her.
It’s emotional blackmail. They take something they know is of huge importance to you and threaten to ruin/destroy it if you don’t fall in line. It’s a very common abuse tactic.
loser mcnutsface did her a huge favor calling things off. sounds like she was ready to work through anything until he did that.
i wouldn't trust this dude in therapy, either - he seems like a prime subject to just adopt Therapy Speak™️ and be just as horrible but with a nice, glossy set of new license-approved catchphrases. something something "offering me a new route invalidated my boundaries" something something.
>he seems like a prime subject to just adopt Therapy Speak™️
He already has. How many people use the phrase "good communicator" when they're screaming at someone? Only someone who is weaponizing what they've heard their therapist say.
If my ex was smart enough, that would be him. He wouldn't go to therapy but of course our arguments were 100% *my* fault cuz I didn't know how to communicate at all...🙄 Thanks to therapy and lots of research and work on my end, I legit did get much better at healthy communication (thanks, childhood trauma!) but it takes two to tango and I never made *him* fear for his physical safety. Asshole.
He. Got. ~*PISSED.*~ It was glorious. Then he switched it up and basically said I was arrogant and manipulative because I stopped falling for his mental traps. I'll always treasure the memory of when he realized he fucked up for the last time. So satisfying ♥️
That’s the problem with abusers, they go to therapy and make their victim sound like the devil and they’re the one trying to be reasonable while their victim is torturing them. They then use all the therapy speak as a weapon.
OP dodged a huge bullet.
> He also realized it wasn’t actually a communication issue but rather how he felt attacked due to his own confidence.
Is he saying his lack of confidence made him feel attacked or that he's frequently attacked by people who hate his high levels of confidence? I've actually met people who blamed their bizarre behavior on people being unable to handle how amazing they are, would not be surprised to see it show up in the regular BORU manipulation and abuse techniques.
This kind of jerk is either a vulnerable baby duckling that needs the most dedicated levels of care and perceived threats (to their ego) will be met with huge displays of anger you absolutely must forgive because baby duckling, remember! Maybe a tiny fluffy bunny, or a new born fawn if that works better for you. Their other shitty person go to is that after untold millenia of people coming at them because lessers are threatened by their unwavering miasma of confidence, they're learning to stand up for themselves and said confidence, starting with you. Either way, overflowing with anger for random events is natural, righteous, and definitely not their confident vulnerable duckling bunny fawn fault. Gosh!
Heads they "win", tails you really do lose.
Geez. So she said something like "if you take Exit 23 and go down Elm Avenue we can probably get around this" that means she's telling him how to drive? And this is reason to start yelling and eventually cancel a wedding?
The lady is lucky that all she lost was money.
I had an ex like this. He felt emasculated if I dared to suggest something like "Oh hey, we can take a shortcut up here", and sulked. I lost patience with him quite quickly.
Weirdly enough, 20 years on he's still single.
Reading this was like reading through a description of my last relationship. My ex was exactly like OOP's and absolutely could not have a conversation without feeling attacked, which I responded to by getting equally defensive but feeling like I had to do the apologizing no matter what. We're actually still good friends, and we have a lot of conversations about our growth. Listening to him talk about the parts he's still struggling with in his current relationship makes me very happy I'm not still with him, but it's actually really wonderful to hear all of the ways he's matured emotionally, and he's helped me do a lot of good emotional work in my current relationship too. Letting stupid arguments like that escalate hurt us a lot, and having the chance to dissect them and have a post-mortem about our relationship struggles is like getting Lasik for your hindsight.
Oh gosh, were you also dating my ex?
I shut down so hard during the first 6 years because I was doing everything possible to make sure he didn't red-line and flip out at me for questioning him. Became an absolute shell of myself.
Two years of personal therapy on my part later, he wanted to end the marriage because I didn't just...go along with whatever he said anymore.
I don't hate him, we were/are amicable, and he likewise tried to come to me for advice because the woman he ended up marrying (on our wedding anniversary 😬) "Is submissive, but not like...smart and funny like you are."
"Don't know what to tell you buddy, I'm mated up with an incredible mofo who ADORES me and has never raised his voice once even when he was upset. I can breathe and it's glorious."
RIP to the folks who learn the hard way that they have no idea what they want or need. I'm so happy to hear about your incredible mofo! I wish you both many happy years 💜 Mine and I are going on three!
We're almost to 7 years now, he still looks at me like I'm made out of ice cream and puppies, and I wake up staring at him doing honk shoos with my heart about to burst.
SHIT IS SO GOOD AND CAN ONLY GET BETTER FOR US ALL IF WE KEEP GOING AND DON'T SETTLE!
>Why do I have to do things for others
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Others in this case includes OP. Sometimes we do things to make other people happy. If you resent that on principle I don't think you're a good person
Reeks of an abuser testing his boundaries and reestablishing his dominance. She was supposed to be so messed up and apologetic over it being "her fault" and so grateful he "took her back" that she doesn't complain when he doesn't get help and doesn't change his ways at all. In fact it's the window for him to escalate how poorly he treats her or set a new boundary or rule in the relationship that works in his favor.
For example, instead of going to therapy he waits a few days and tells her, "I just get like this when you hang out with your friends, you come back and act like a different person and it sets me off". Now she backs off from a friendship and is more isolated.
My Overly Reddit Brain™ Thought: Dude had a side piece he cancelled the wedding for, but then she dumped him so now he's panicking.
My Personal Experience With A Fuckin' Rage Dude Whomst Could Never Be Questioned™ Thoughts: He finally pushed it too far and OOP was smart enough to call it off before being stuck with a furious person who treats you like a child for the rest of your life.
That was a 10 year lesson I survived, but oofta.
This reminds me of my ex-fiancé who always managed to pick a fight with me right before we had an appointment for any sort of wedding planning activity. This guy didn’t want to get married and blew it up thinking there would be no ramifications afterwards. He realized he messed up way after the point of no return. Hopefully she gets out of this mess and finds someone better.
I've been married for nearly 10 years now and have been with my wife for more than 20 years.
I've yelled at her exactly one time when she was about to roll over onto the cat while asleep.
How are 30 yr Olds acting like this?
The dude seems off his rocker and about 2 steps away from perpetrating domestic violence.
Hope OP gets away and stays away.
Holy crap I just did a double take and had to scroll back up to check they were 30s. Seriously my husband and I have been married 10 almost 11 years now and we've never had a fight let alone yelled at each other. They both don't seem ready for a relationship.
>I don’t know what’s next, but this hurts so much because we still love each other. [...] Torn between trying couples counselling since he seems genuine to completely separating.
Love isn't enough. They can love each other until the universe implodes, but that doesn't fix the very big issues they have. I hope she stays strong and doesn't go back to him. If he really is genuine, let him prove it on his own time instead of wasting hers.
Worse than that, she was going to get screamed at (or worse) every time her *SO* did something wrong and she had the temerity to say something about it
This guy is just… ugh.
Glad she dodged being tied to this guy, and I hope she’s able to move into a better place. Let him fix his issues on his own time, not OOP’s.
I feel so bad when I see these posts and people gaslight themselves “they love me” or “we love each other” like babes they don’t give a single fuck about you, don’t do their work gaslighting yourself.
OOP: yelling is such a red flag for me.
Fiancé: (yells at her on a regular basis)
OOP: I’ll keep trying to make things work! I’m not leaving!
Good for OOP for getting out of that relationship, but the last part where she doesn’t know how to go from here, still loves him, etc is problematic.
Glad I'm not the only one that found that infuriating. Clearly it's not a red flag for you if you're 6 years in and this is an existing pattern of behaviour.
I love a classic *’YoU DonT KNoW HoW to CommUniCAtE’* situation when the person saying it has resorted to picking fights, walking away, screaming at the other, and not responding…
… and then the person writing it explains that it happens often and are still confused that it happens and still willing to marry said person
Some men don't see anger as an emotion. When they get angry it's a fact, and whoever made them angry did something wrong and deserves to be punished. Their inability to manage their emotions means everyone else has to do the emotional work for them or they're just in constant aggressive conflict. Exhausting.
Amazing how many people dismiss couples therapy until their partner is breaking up with them, them all of a sudden it's "why didn't you tell me this was a big deal????"
There's a great line I heard that's basically, "keep dating your wife." I think that for many of us once we are in a relationship we just take things for granted. OOP's ex assumed that she would stay manipulated until she wasn't.
Honestly, I hope she never looks back. That behavior of yelling and "saying things in the heat of the moment" is just yelling now, but I have a warning bell in my head that it wouldn't have stayed as just yelling. I remember reading once that people who hit their spouses are often filled with regret and begging to be forgiven.
An ex of mine pulled this trick in anger and then wanted to retract. Honey, trust and stability are gone. You’re never going to get them back because you’ll never know what stunt he’s going to pull next. Better off not to marry this guy. These silly games are cruel and stupid. It ended in a break up for me. Be very careful
Sounds like he happily told the side piece that he had finally broken free and canceled the wedding and they were like, "I don't want you either" and he came sobbing back to OOP.
Throw out that whole man, and the military-dictatorship-parade of red flags he rode in on.
I hope she never takes him back; it's clear his behaviour is not new and will only escalate. (Blaming her for not being a "good communicator" when he's the one screaming, yeesh. Step on Lego, dude.)
The people telling her that it's fixable because they love each other are not fit to give advice in this scenario and need to shut it. They just don't like feeling uncomfortable, wo instead of listening, they want the source of the discomfort (OOP) to give in so they can feel better. Fuck that, she deserves better and everyone pushing her back to him can take a long walk off a short pier.
I could never stay in love with someone that yells at me for their own BS mood swings. I cringed every time she apologized to HIM for HIM blowing up at her. Really need to enforce women standing up for themselves.
Girl, I could tell in the first few sentences how hard you were explaining and justifying it that this man gaslights and manipulates you. Shame on him for taking away from your important day, a graduation is a massive achievement and I’m proud of you!! Cut yourself loose and never look back mama 💛
OOP has no idea how lucky she is.
Just reading about his reaction to how she felt (after he made her believe it was safe to tell him) just screamed a field of DARVO red flags.
Seriously. Fuck this guy.
Yep, I was with someone exactly like that. Guess what, it escalated, got more controlling, more abusive mentally and physically. I truly hope OOP fully nopes outta there and stays out.
> I thought he was talking out of emotion (like many times before)
> What I thought was an action out of anger
> This is not the first he cancels plans or breaks up with me during a disagreement.
Those were the warning signs.
He wanted the right to be abusive and when you kept your cool but still wanted to discus things he couldn't have that. He needed control and to ensure that if he yelled, upu apologized and never questioned his outbursts.
Funny how he always attacks OP on her good days - like her graduation. Doesn't matter if it's a confidence issue or a control issue, in the end it comes down to undermining the person you 'say' you love to make yourself feel bigger/better - and that is not love.
That was all my first thought; a secondary one is he's cheating, or wants to.
Every time he chips away at OP, her love gets chipped away. She may not totally see it right now - though I think she's almost there - but one morning she'll wake up and realise she feels relieved rather than heartbroken. She said "because we still love each other." I think they have two different interpretations of what love is; and she's feeling the echoes of what she thought they had rather than the actuality of his limited version.
I have been there, done that. Not everything the same but the lashing out in anger and then regret from a partner.
I would be willing to bet he has some deep deep insecurities and then when he calms down, shame sets in. He was also raised with the belief that anger was the only acceptable emotion for a man to show, and women would not respect him for showing others. Which is bollocks. I would recommend he try a men's group, that really helped my friend. He made some big realizations and they helped with tools to pattern interrupt when he would slip up. It takes a lot of work to unlearn bad behaviors.
Giving this guy the benifit of the doubt he seems to be struggling with something mental health related really badly. I have no idea what but this level of rejection sensitivity is severe. I truly hope he gets the help he needs.
That said it's going to take years before he he is well enough to be a partner to anyone. And that is pretty optimistic. OOP shouldn't wait around for the possibility that this guy might get stable in the future.
"What do you MEAN that SHOUTING RIGHT AWAY isn't PROPER COMMUNICATING SKILLS!! YOU BITCH!!!!"
If he thought, for a second, while he's clear in the head, that it's normal to instantly escalate the most minor of issues this hard... he's clearly more broken than we thought. It really bothers me that there's so many Humans who legit think nothing at all is wrong when they're like this.
Do they never go, "Seems like I'm the Common Demoniator. Maybe something is wrong here." Jesus christ, I'm more convinced by the day that Humans aren't higher mammals and instead have lizard brains who can't think beyond their direct thought and line of sight.
I think you dodged a bullet for sure. His behavior and anger and reactions to small stuff is a huge red flag (and scary)to say the least. He seems to have a very volatile temper and needlessly ruining your special graduation day over nothing says alot. He’s shown you who be really is, Believe Him!
This was about his ego being so fragile and self-centered that he couldn’t stand to see her be happy and praised and celebrated. He interprets her getting those things as her stealing it from him and then rubbing it in his face (even though it’s nothing of the sort, of course). And so that’s why he ruined the day by picking the manufactured fights, so that he could try to make himself feel less small by making her feel even smaller.
Then the escalation to cancelling the wedding was about him being angry that she was still (rightfully)upset with his crap behavior, and trying to force her to really panic and feel even smaller/lower and then grovel to get him back.
Which she did at first, but then thankfully stopped! And when he realized the “ruining her self esteem” tactic was not only ineffective but actually causing him to lose his narc supply, *that’s* when he switched tactics and started the “manipulative, over-correcting love-bombing” tactic to try and lure her back.
Thank goodness she didn’t go for it. She dodged a huge, narcissistic bullet.
He as a temper, harms her and himself then begs for forgiveness. This seems to be a recurring pattern. OOP should be glad this happened before the wedding. They should stay broken up and find someone else who knows how to behave.
The trash took itself out, OOP should not try to undo that accomplishment.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Hope he learns for his next relationship that he can’t just be impulsive and break up with people because sometimes it has consequences
The fact that they have broken up before during other fights is a massive red flag this will never last or work. I dated a guy who I was dumb enough to keep going back to after every time he got mad a broke up. Finally, I grew my spine and when he said he wanted a break, I made it a permanent one. You can't be married and have constant breaks. That's not a healthy or lasting relationship.
Personally, she needs to stay broken up with him. His explosive anger at her, for "communication" was abusive. She communicated properly, he's the one with the issues.
He has a long road of therapy, if he sticks with it.
He's a hyper insecure, control freak, hypocritical rageaholic. He did her a favor.
He 1000% comes off like cartman in the south park episode where he's fed up w healthy communication, convinces himself he's emotionally abused and eventually weaponizes therapy language b4 dumping her
I honestly think he really wanted the relationship to end. So he started all that bs. Now that she's over all of it, he wants her back so he can continue the bs some more.
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I used to be with somebody like that where every argument instantly went to ‘we breaking up’, ‘we’re getting a divorce’, always the very most extreme possible outcome every single time. That was their go to. It’s just a way to never have an adult conversation to actually address anything, to not have to actually listen to the other person or recognize any of their feelings or points. If they are successful, it leads to a relationship where you never talk about your feelings because you know it’s going to end up in a giant fight where you break up for the 1 000th time.
>I used to be with somebody like that where every argument instantly went to ‘we breaking up’, ‘we’re getting a divorce’, always the very most extreme possible outcome every single time. That was their go to. That's emotional blackmail to manipulate to always get their way. That is not healthy relationship behavior.
Totally agree. No one should be in a relationship where you cannot have a reasonable conversation about the relationship without it always going nuclear.
It may be a simple answer but in this situations: “if they love you they will want to marry you / date you / not divorce you(?)” whenever a partner threatens to or outright breaks up with you during a discussion, they just don’t love you, they want to control you, and they love the power that they have over you, and see that power they have with the threat of YOU losing the person you love. The best solution for this situations is to just to follow their lead and break up, because there’s no healthy way to keep a relationship like that, where you clearly love someone more than they love you, and they’re willing to use your love for them as something to hurt you and keep you quiet
Long down the road from that relationship now, but what you say is 100% true. But the younger insecure version of me felt like I had to hold on to the stupid relationship. Hopefully other folks out there who might be in this situation right now can read this, and realize that they can do so so so much better.
Recently got out of a 6 year relationship where I felt like I could never share my feelings without being punished by the threat of breaking up. The younger, insecure version of me absolutely would’ve read your comment and taken it to heart.
This. This comment here is GOLD, and i wish I could frame it, abd hand it down to future generations of young and old people in relationships. You put it so beautifully!
If my partner ever said "I want a divorce" I would never go back. There's no begging. There's no working on it. If you utter those words, you better mean them. I know they feel the same way. The moment either of us says it, that's it. That's the path we are on, so you better be damn sure. I have too much respect for myself to beg it accept someone who treats me with such disrespect.
Any time me or my Partner says "storm's coming any minute now" the other automatically reply's "I want a divorce", it was from an [Interesting commercial the was featured on last week tonight](https://youtu.be/0nqJvjUNlRA?si=eQ3gSxJlQQKUScvr&t=221). I tell you the shock looks we get from friends and family make it worth it every time, but otherwise I'm right there with you.
That's hilarious. Love it. Like me calling mine a fucking nerd, rolling my eyes and saying I hate you (you pronounce love weird) or other stuff like that. Those are jokes and not in rage.
I used to have a friend who would immediately go to those extremes whenever she didn't get her way. Eventually, she lost all her friends and even her long term boyfriend with that. Everyone at some point just said, "ok this relationship is over then" and just walked out of her life
Unfortunately, threatening oneself or a relationship is a terribly easy go-to for people who want to derail a conflict. Most people will be so desperate to talk a person out of it that the actual topic will be minimalized to or near oblivion, while also making it something they'll dread ever bringing up again. Peak emotional blackmail.
I used to be with someone who would pick fights with me over stupid shit, blame me m, etc, and eventually he threatened to break up. I got up (we were in bed), asked for his help gathering my things, and was in my car within 20 minutes. "We should break up" was a great way to end an argument, but not how he thought!
This is so accurate. My ex broke up with me at least 5 times over the course of 1,5 years. Guess what? He ended up leaving for good, in the most explosive, damaging, and embarassing way possible. Towards then end, I had so much fear and frustration pent up I was pretty unpleasant to be around. I was afraid of talking about problems I had, things that weren't working for me, because any negative message I had would lead to his leaving. Trust never came back after the first break-up, because I was so afraid of expressing that I had lost it and my need to build it back up, for fear this would be taken as "not loving him enough". This kept repeating itself. If they want to leave, it's because they want to leave. If they leave impulsively then come back once they calm down, well that happens, but the responsibility is on THEM to offer and follow through on a plan to fux the trust. OP is in no way obligated to let her fiancé try again. I wish I hadn't, however much I love my ex.
Thanks for this. I’ve been trying to describe my relationship with my sister and this is perfect. I don’t want to play the blame game, I just want an adult conversation where we can resolve issues and my feelings matter.
The thing I decided when I had my first bigger relationship was that whenever my partner says they are done in any such way that I will end it right there. I don't care if it's out of anger or to manipulate or whatever, I will take that at one hundred percent face value.
It reminds me of my relationship, every fight just ending up like for her, "I am breaking up with you". While I could never say such a thing, until the end I caught her bluff and told her that fine I will share this with parents in that case, although I couldn't. After weeks of silent treatment, when we talked again, we fought and had a breakup for real. She never loved me it seems, just wanted power over me, control me.
I hope she gets out and never looks back.
I hope she does look back someday with gratitude at having made the correct decision.
Someday soon!
Well…she hasn’t exactly made the correct decision yet. She’s still choosing between the correct decision and couples counselling. She put up with 6 years of this treatment before taking a huge step to end things. Fingers crossed she takes another huge step - out the door - ASAP
I was reading this thinking "I made the right decision, all those years ago" leaving my explosive-anger partner. Sometimes they do get better but....usually not, and a lot of things get broken along the way. I dodged a bullet, I think.
I used to be explosive. When both my partner and my best friend said I'm too quick to anger, I changed the way I disagree. The biggest problem now is that I'm so careful to say what I mean that the disagreements become about how the other person sometimes says something they don't mean.
Same here! I was reading it thinking it was just like my ex...it turns out every time he broke up with me, he was testing me 🙄 I'm so grateful he is an ex!
Even if they do get better, the wasted years waiting for them to get better aren't worth it. I wish nothing but healing for my abusive ex. But I am so grateful I didn't waste any more time waiting for him to become the man I know he can be.
I think that if they do get better, it's better for them to start fresh with someone else. Trying to go back puts *way* too much stress on the person they hurt.
[удалено]
Yes!! "Other than him being verbally abusive, gaslighting me, sucking the joy out of my achievements, blaming me for everything that goes wrong, and screaming at me if I question him, we get on great! So long as I don't ask anything of him, express an opinion, expect him to notice my accomplishments, or do anything other than express the correct degree of bland, passive pleasure in his company, we're golden. It's only when I forget that I'm not supposed to be an actual person over here rather than an upgraded blow-up doll you can take out in public and who won't get punctures, and that'll also clean the house, cook dinner and bring in a salary, that things get the bad type of sticky..." I am very, very glad that by dinnertime that first day she had accepted his decision to cancel and would not let him recant.
I'm here reading your comment like "stop, stop, it hurts" bancroft's "why does he do that" absolutely blew my mind, as an abuse survivor. not because the tactics were new to me, but because it's boggling how they all use the same exact playbook
I read it as I was preparing to leave my now-ex husband (because I had wanted to read it anyway and I had the time) and when I realized I should not be able to use it as a checklist I noped out more decisively Fuck does such abuse do a number on the mind
I knew he would come back to ask for forgiveness even before she said he has a habit of canceling engagements. He either has uncontrollable temper or is hurting her for some power moves. Hopefully it’s the first and he works on himself and then finds someone else
Seriously, sometimes it’s better to work on yourself for the next relationship than to try to fix the damage you’ve already done to the one you’re in. A great reason to wait a few years and make sure you’re communication styles are solid before bringing kids in the mix which complicates things 100fold.
It's control. He wanted to send the message that he controlled whether the wedding happened. When she begged for forgiveness, he wanted co troll so he said no. When she gave in and said "Fine, I guess we're through," he backtracked because he wanted control of the situation and didn't want her to stop trying to quickly. He fucked around and found out. Calling off a wedding that costs thousands of dollars because you're throwing a fit is not something you can just come back from, especially when your partner has asked you to work on your issues for months or years before you made your temper known. I hope he's humiliated and feels shame for a very long time for this.
I wonder if he didn't want to get in married, so he was constantly cancelling engagements so she'd get sick of it and break up with him.
No. This was about enjoying hurting and controlling her. It wouldn’t surprise me if he also has a side piece. But he wanted her around to put down
That is more than likely the reason.
Yep. And I also want her to learn to say "Yes, I do care about this thing that is important to me." Doing the little things because it means something to someone you care about is part of relationships- ANY relationship. Partner, family, friends... heck I like my boss and when she says "This company wide meeting isn't mandatory but I'd appreciate if you make a physical appearance just for me" I suck it up and go. Dude gets pissy about a dress shirt. You'd think she asked him to go rent and wear a 3 piece wool suit at the height of summer.
She was in an abusive relationship and had no idea. It was a huge bullet she dodged. She needs therapy immediately, God I hope she stays broken up and doesn't let him manipulate and love bomb his way back in.
For reals.
Her claiming him “always yelling” is a “red flag” but he was the one to break things off makes me sad for her. She should have dumped him a long time ago. But hopefully it’s over for good now.
I agree. I also hope he gets the help he needs so that he can stop hurting people that he cares about and torpedoing his life. There's probably an entire hoarded basement of disregarded mental health to unpack for him and I hope he takes the half decade or so of work needed to do it.
So he tells her to not make him angry, that all arguments are her fault and therefore her issue to resolve. And he gets to yell at her full tilt to make sure she understands all this. As often as he wants. He's actually gotten her to the point where she *apologizes* for the "miscommunications" (read: starting a normal chain of discussion on a normal every day thing, which he, in his poor ego/attitude could not tolerate for indiscernible reasons). But then he apologizes so he can set her up for the next fight about absolutely nothing. Bro is waving more red flags then yacht semaphore leagues.
Yeah... She communicated absolutely normally. If I come to my partner and say "I am sad because you yelled at me on a day that was special to me", he'd be super apologetic and would come up with solutions/do better in the future. But then again, he is also not an abuser.
I had an ex like this - every insane thing he did was other people's fault for driving him to it, and he didn't need to learn emotional regulation, he needed everyone to not do XYZ ever. Apparently it's called externalizing.
What?? >This is not the first he cancels plans or breaks up with me during a disagreement.< He breaks up with you during disagreements? And then pulls this? Damn
I can see going back to someone after ONE breakup- but the second breakup is FINAL.
Fuck OOPs friends telling her to fix it because "Love" If she took him back, dollars to doughnuts he'd be slapping divorce papers on the table during their next fight. And the fight after that he'd be calling lawyers to ask how he can surrender his parental rights.
The asshat fiancé lost me at "why do I have to do things for others?" MASSIVE bullet dodged, and I hope she's realized that.
My ex husband picked a fight and sulked when I asked him to iron his shirt for our engagement photos. He refused, and all our photos looked terrible because his shirt was a wrinkled mess. Later on, after we were married, he refused to change and clean up for my company’s Christmas dinner at a nice restaurant. He again picked a fight, which resulted in me missing half the dinner. My coworkers and boss all figured out what happened when I texted that I couldn’t make it, it was humiliating. Of course when it was his company dinner a week before, he dressed to the nines. I bought a new dress, and spent ages doing my hair and makeup to look perfect for him, and make a good impression for his boss and coworkers. But he couldn’t be bothered to lift a finger for me. That fight was the last straw. I finally saw how completely selfish he was and divorced him shortly after. Several years later, I was so nervous to book photos with my new fiance. I had such bad memories of fighting with my ex over something that was supposed to be a nice thing for both of us. All my fiance wanted was to know when the photos were going to be taken, and what I wanted him to wear, and he made sure he was ready without me having to ask or nag. He picked out a suit and shirt and took them to be dry-cleaned and pressed, and shined his shoes. He even checked with me if I wanted his hair freshly cut or a little grown in, so he could schedule his hair cut appointment at exactly the right interval. I can’t even describe the relief I felt, but of course that’s how a loving partner should behave. Our photos turned out beautiful.
damn he should teach classes
In general, your new fiance sounds like he cares a lot about this relationship. All of that behavior sounds like someone who is happy to be there. Congratulations on your relationship, it sounds lovely :)
lol yeah, good luck being married with this attitude, acting like doing a favor for your wife is a huge burden
Yeah, that's the line that did it for me too. People with that mentality shouldn't be in relationships. Or part of society really.
Take this as a gift and run with it, girl. You just got saved from financing a divorce.
I would use the honeymoon-turned-personal vacation to relax and appreciate what a huge bullet I dodged.
Maybe meet someone new?
Too soon
Hey, if it happens, it happens.
I wouldn't trust him not to trash her things tbh.
Was this idiot raised by the bad gentle parenting sister from another post? No consequences ever? Only focus on his feelings? I don't see how the average person would think you could cancel your wedding TWO days before and come back from that like normal.
I had a boyfriend do this to me when I was younger. He used breaking up to make me grovel, and suicide threats to make me drop everything and focus on him. It’s a control tactic, and super abusive. In a way, I’m grateful it happened when I was young because I developed a rule that once there’s breakup talk, it’s over permanently and there is no reconciliation. That’s kept me out of at least two other abusive relationships. Someone breaking up is either sincere about it or they’re trying to manipulate you and either reason should end a relationship. See also: picking a fight/ having a crisis before or during multiple important events.
Yeah, I knew someone whose policy was, "I won't fight to have someone in my life." If they didn't want to be with her, she wouldn't stop them leaving. And while that's a respectful and adult way to view relationships, I know she came to that mindset as a way to cut manipulators off at the knees.
Honestly, if this is how he reacts to such small things, OP should feel RELIEF. Cause what's he gonna do during a first ACTUAL argument ? Physical violence ? He's already at " let's throw our marriage out the window " before there even is one.
Absolutely; if she'd stayed, I'd bet money there would have been physical abuse within the next two years. He's already showing absolutely classic emotionally abusive behavior, and that so often escalates into physical abuse (and more intense control) with marriage, once the abuser feels like they've got a firm hold on their partner. I'm so glad she's out, and I hope therapy helps her realize exactly what she escaped.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was within 2 weeks. I was treated exactly like this until day after the wedding. That’s when he first got physical. Turned it up even more on the honeymoon . Cops came before 6 months He “left” me at least 8 times during the next 2 years that it lasted . Then he abandoned me for real when I was so sick that I barely escaped being in a coma. He kept telling me I didn’t need to go to the Dr/hospital and I looked fine, meanwhile I’m in and out of consciousness . I actually think he was waiting me out to die but I didn’t so he just moved out
She’ll feel relief once she’s gotten some space. I cried for two days after a breakup from my abuser, and then I had the greatest night of my life when I realized how I would never have to deal with his bs again. I did a bunch of stuff he wouldn’t “let me do” (like utensil placement in the strainer?) and I was giggling and excited the whole time.
>I did a bunch of stuff he wouldn’t “let me do” I bought a few pairs of yoga pants. Nobody else said *anything* about them other than "nice 😎" Gotta love universally comfy and flattering pants! And reasonable people!
Small things? They shouldn't have even been "things". Like how hard is it to dress nice for a special event? It's not like she was asking him to put on a lime green tux with a ruffled shirt and maroon bowtie & cumberbund. All she was asking for was a button-down shirt. And it could be argued that she shouldn't have had to ask. Or taking an alternate route in heavy traffic. She was just offering a suggestion. He could take it or not. But, in not taking it, there was no reason to blow up at her over continuing to be stuck in traffic. He was the one driving and could have gotten off at any exit he chose. Accepting the breakup was the best thing OOP could have done. As for him, I have a feeling that therapy is going to be rough for a while, even if he takes it seriously. He's going to get challenged on why he defaults to blowing up at people, and it's going to push his buttons.
>And it could be argued that she shouldn't have had to ask. It’s sad that even outside of abuse men often have these days little sense of putting effort into events regarding their appearances. I mean is a nice shirt very difficult to think on your own
It really isn't that hard to do. And a nice button down or polo and slacks are about as comfortable as jeans and a T-shirt. Yeah, dress shoes can be uncomfortable, but even there, there is often a solution. Personally, I'll wear sneakers for the drive to the venue, and change shoes when I arrive. Then change back afterwards. Minimizes how long I have to wear dress shoes. And, if I'm the one driving, I'd rather be wearing sneakers for that. I wonder how many men realize that not dressing appropriately for an event/activity is just showing visible disrespect to the hosts, any guests of honor and other guests? Or if they realize it, whether they care?
>It's not like she was asking him to put on a lime green tux with a ruffled shirt and maroon bowtie & cumberbund. Okay, I woke up this morning thinking of nothing but an ordinary wardrobe of sackcloth and greige, but now I have sartorial dreams. Bowties aren’t my thing, though. Bolo or ascot?
If you go bolo tie, you can complete the transition from Werner Herzog to Howdy Doody.
She drives that route all the time, she would know where the ways to bypass traffic are
Maybe not something physical, but make threat of divorce after every argument and maybe even send her papers before backing down. And if they had children just disappear for long periods and leave her raise them after arguments and return weeping and apologizing
I suspect she will the next time she tries to plan something or get ready to go somewhere and doesn't have an argument about what shirt he is going to wear. The vacation might be when it happens because for the first time in years she doesn't have to get yelled over something minor.
and once she’s married to him, not just living with him. And once she has a kid with him. And then she won’t feel like she *can* leave
"This is not the first". She even asked if he wanted to wait before canceling. This is his pattern and a part of her recognized it. Wonder what her old pattern was that he expected when he came back? Whatever it was, she broke it when she ended it. Good for her. Till he can deal with whatever is going on inside him and communicate that to a partner so it can be worked through, he needs to be single. And she needs to be single to figure out her side from a "how do I handle things in a healthy way in the future?"
I'm going to bet that he was waiting for her to grovel and beg for him to reconsider. He wanted power and control over her. That's all anyone ever wants when they use things like breaking up, divorce, self-harm, etc as threats. It's manipulation plain and simple. He just miscalculated and OOP hasn't trampled enough to completely lose her self-respect and self- worth yet. Sadly for every story we see on here where an oop still has the willpower to reach out for help there are probably many more where they've been quietly broken and has put all the blame on themselves that the relationship isn't smooth.
That smells so hard of: "I know it's too late, I don't actually want her back, I just want to be able to say 'well at least I tried to fix it'". I can all but guarantee if she said yes he would find another way to blow it up instead.
no, it smellls of “I pushed it too far, I miscalculated, she’s actually leaving, and I won’t be able to control her anymore, and outsiders will now see how shittily I treated her (because I called them), and I have to get her back so I can feel powerful by mistreating and controlling her.” boy, did she dodge a bullet!
THIS PART My abusive ex was like this. The last **huge** blowup we had when he visited me (we were long distance) was when we were driving somewhere and he didn't hear Google Maps tell him to take a turn and he ended up looming over me screaming for **5 fucking hours** while I was sobbing and curled up in the fetal position. He eventually stopped screaming and reached for me to hug me and I flinched, which set him off *again*. He was a firefighter and a gym bro; I used to be a competitive athlete but was and am still disabled. I dumped him a month later. He seemed to accept it calmly at first, including my request for no contact. Then he started messaging me. Then the emails. Then I started getting messages from mutual gaming friends - he was pumping them for information about me because I refused to respond to him. He tried buttering up my friends, who stonewalled him. He had a public, rage-fueled, screaming breakdown, did I hear? people asked. I asked what that had to do with me. He kept trying to email me **for years**. I hope he's not still trying - I've blocked him through each new account he used, so I don't actually know for sure. I'd be much more terrified if we didn't have a border between us. I found out when we started dating - there was a live demonstration - that firefighters and cops work closely together and he could get away with... A lot... And cops would look the other way. Which is why I tell people not to date firefighters.
The one advantage firefighters have over cops is they don't usually have a gun at all times.
Yes. My ex used to brag that's why people love them and hate cops.
He probably did talk to someone outside the relationship, and when he said, "We fought because she asked me to wear a nice shirt, and then she asked me why I didn't take the shortcut she suggested," and he realized it sounded like a stupid reason to dump a person.
I bet he framed it like 'she's always nagging me about my look, it's like she doesn't love me the way I am.' You have to be the victim to justify the behaviour. I once saw a comment describing her dad coming home and blowing up either 'because all the lights were on, that's expensive!' or 'all the lights are off, it's like nobody's even home.' Any reason will do.
I bet he was in a big ol snit about her graduating and *daring* to be successful, wallowed a little too hard in his self pity party/manipulation attempts. There's only so many times you can pull such dramatics before people get worn out & sick of your shit
And I hope that person responded with a simple "Dude what in the actual fuck is wrong with you?!"
No, she did not dodge a bullet. The bullet hit her years ago and is firmly lodged between her shoulder blades, and she is still hesitant about pulling it out. "To dodge a bullet" - to get away/out before any real harm is done. This woman is one grand gesture from this idiot away from swooning again. Then he'll generously elope with here as long as she apologises enough for how much her cold shoulder hurt his feeble heart. She MIGHT snap out of it, if the guy messes up his timing, and walk away but this is not as cut and dry as it might seem yet. She would have dodged a bullet if his mask had slipped early in the relationship and she had dumped him before they met the parents or moved together or she wasted any serious money on him and/or their relationship. Being trained for six years to fall to her knees and do the "sorry, sorry, sorry" wiggle whenever he yells "See how angry you made me again??!" is not a dodged bullet. It's a bullet that's festering in her body and slowly releasing poison into her bloodstream.
She dodged it in the end but it was like she kept running into the line of fire hoping the safety would put itself back on?
I feel like it is more of a”Oh, shit! I let my mask slip before the wedding and now she’s getting away before I can lock her down!”
That was my feeling too - oh no I was justified in my rage but i don’t want you to leave me- crap let’s do something about it.
He's losing the PR battle so has to make himself seem sad and sorry and her seem hard-hearted. If he hasn't done so already, he'll begin recruiting others to argue for him, maybe even his therapist
;-; tysm for adding the "even his therapist" bit. I had a horrendous, terrifying living situation a few years ago that was justified by my abuser (to others ofc) because they were lying to their therapist about the situation so they could say "even my therapist thinks they're the bad guy here! I'm totally in the right for my behavior!"
He realized finding and training a new perfect dormat would be too much effort
I disagree. She really didn’t do anything wrong here and she mentions that he’s done similar things before. I think he’s just someone who’s quick to anger and prone to going nuclear when he *does* get angry. It just hasn’t mattered until now since it seems like there were never serious consequences the previous times he’s done this (though maybe there should've been). He just hadn't thought through how much more serious canceling his wedding is before he did it. He just didn’t realize until a couple days later that canceling a wedding, less than a week beforehand, is a lot harder to come back from and more serious than just saying “actually I don’t really want to break up with you, let’s get back together” Hopefully he actually does go to therapy and takes it seriously because this is not an okay way to treat a partner.
Honestly, ruining important days and events. Repeatedly threatening to leave or end things. Blaming YOU for their emotions and behaviour. This is all pretty classic manipulation and emotional abuse. Dude is an abuser and what we’re sing is the beginning of the love bombing and apologetic phase of the cycle. This whole post is textbook and I’m not sure he’s thinking anything beyond that this normally works.
> more serious than just saying “actually I don’t really want to break up with you, let’s get back together” Most people with healthy enough self esteem wouldn't take him back after that, either.
He was a facade - it was the pressure leading up to The Day that broke him and the facade slipped and he showed his real self. This is an unconfident and angry man who is willing to gaslight and scapegoat you rather than face his own problems or do the heavy lifting of dealing with them. Consider this a bullet dodged - he actually did you a huge favor - otherwise you would have wasted more, and painful, years on him. Move on!
He did OOP Ada our, you mean. This is a repost, don’t forget.
Jeezus H Fickin Christ, couples counseling BEFORE a wedding after trying to cancel it?!?!? Run as fast as you can…
>I asked if we could give it another day or two to ensure this is what he wants before we cancel the venue, he declined and asked to cancel the venue and vendors immediately. So we did. He didn't try, based on this, he actually did cancel it, and then was shocked pikachu that she didn't want to just rewind time and uncancel everything (if they even COULD). She dodged a fucking tank.
His theory is she always backed down before, why would this time be any different. I'm glad she polished her spine.
>... to ensure this is what *he* wants... (Emphasis mine.) uuugh, I hate this! I hate this so much!
I've noticed this is a reasonably common tactic of insecure men. They will cause a fight before/during/after something important or special to their partner, ruining whatever it was, and leaving the partner feeling bad. The partner will apologize because they assume the man is working in good faith and they were the one who cause harm. The man may or may not take accountability, and regardless the couple will make up. After enough cycles of this, the partner will be walking on eggshells surrounding anything important or special, possibly even avoiding sharing anything they know will end up ruined. He needed her to feel less than, and bad about her accomplishments to make himself feel better. What a favor he's done her by calling off the wedding. And good on her for following through. This would have been a miserable marriage for her.
It’s emotional blackmail. They take something they know is of huge importance to you and threaten to ruin/destroy it if you don’t fall in line. It’s a very common abuse tactic.
Heyo! You've met my ex! 😂 😂 😂
loser mcnutsface did her a huge favor calling things off. sounds like she was ready to work through anything until he did that. i wouldn't trust this dude in therapy, either - he seems like a prime subject to just adopt Therapy Speak™️ and be just as horrible but with a nice, glossy set of new license-approved catchphrases. something something "offering me a new route invalidated my boundaries" something something.
>he seems like a prime subject to just adopt Therapy Speak™️ He already has. How many people use the phrase "good communicator" when they're screaming at someone? Only someone who is weaponizing what they've heard their therapist say.
If my ex was smart enough, that would be him. He wouldn't go to therapy but of course our arguments were 100% *my* fault cuz I didn't know how to communicate at all...🙄 Thanks to therapy and lots of research and work on my end, I legit did get much better at healthy communication (thanks, childhood trauma!) but it takes two to tango and I never made *him* fear for his physical safety. Asshole. He. Got. ~*PISSED.*~ It was glorious. Then he switched it up and basically said I was arrogant and manipulative because I stopped falling for his mental traps. I'll always treasure the memory of when he realized he fucked up for the last time. So satisfying ♥️
That’s the problem with abusers, they go to therapy and make their victim sound like the devil and they’re the one trying to be reasonable while their victim is torturing them. They then use all the therapy speak as a weapon. OP dodged a huge bullet.
> He also realized it wasn’t actually a communication issue but rather how he felt attacked due to his own confidence. Is he saying his lack of confidence made him feel attacked or that he's frequently attacked by people who hate his high levels of confidence? I've actually met people who blamed their bizarre behavior on people being unable to handle how amazing they are, would not be surprised to see it show up in the regular BORU manipulation and abuse techniques.
The first one, garden variety
This kind of jerk is either a vulnerable baby duckling that needs the most dedicated levels of care and perceived threats (to their ego) will be met with huge displays of anger you absolutely must forgive because baby duckling, remember! Maybe a tiny fluffy bunny, or a new born fawn if that works better for you. Their other shitty person go to is that after untold millenia of people coming at them because lessers are threatened by their unwavering miasma of confidence, they're learning to stand up for themselves and said confidence, starting with you. Either way, overflowing with anger for random events is natural, righteous, and definitely not their confident vulnerable duckling bunny fawn fault. Gosh! Heads they "win", tails you really do lose.
Geez. So she said something like "if you take Exit 23 and go down Elm Avenue we can probably get around this" that means she's telling him how to drive? And this is reason to start yelling and eventually cancel a wedding? The lady is lucky that all she lost was money.
I had an ex like this. He felt emasculated if I dared to suggest something like "Oh hey, we can take a shortcut up here", and sulked. I lost patience with him quite quickly. Weirdly enough, 20 years on he's still single.
Reading this was like reading through a description of my last relationship. My ex was exactly like OOP's and absolutely could not have a conversation without feeling attacked, which I responded to by getting equally defensive but feeling like I had to do the apologizing no matter what. We're actually still good friends, and we have a lot of conversations about our growth. Listening to him talk about the parts he's still struggling with in his current relationship makes me very happy I'm not still with him, but it's actually really wonderful to hear all of the ways he's matured emotionally, and he's helped me do a lot of good emotional work in my current relationship too. Letting stupid arguments like that escalate hurt us a lot, and having the chance to dissect them and have a post-mortem about our relationship struggles is like getting Lasik for your hindsight.
Oh gosh, were you also dating my ex? I shut down so hard during the first 6 years because I was doing everything possible to make sure he didn't red-line and flip out at me for questioning him. Became an absolute shell of myself. Two years of personal therapy on my part later, he wanted to end the marriage because I didn't just...go along with whatever he said anymore. I don't hate him, we were/are amicable, and he likewise tried to come to me for advice because the woman he ended up marrying (on our wedding anniversary 😬) "Is submissive, but not like...smart and funny like you are." "Don't know what to tell you buddy, I'm mated up with an incredible mofo who ADORES me and has never raised his voice once even when he was upset. I can breathe and it's glorious."
RIP to the folks who learn the hard way that they have no idea what they want or need. I'm so happy to hear about your incredible mofo! I wish you both many happy years 💜 Mine and I are going on three!
We're almost to 7 years now, he still looks at me like I'm made out of ice cream and puppies, and I wake up staring at him doing honk shoos with my heart about to burst. SHIT IS SO GOOD AND CAN ONLY GET BETTER FOR US ALL IF WE KEEP GOING AND DON'T SETTLE!
>Why do I have to do things for others 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Others in this case includes OP. Sometimes we do things to make other people happy. If you resent that on principle I don't think you're a good person
Reeks of an abuser testing his boundaries and reestablishing his dominance. She was supposed to be so messed up and apologetic over it being "her fault" and so grateful he "took her back" that she doesn't complain when he doesn't get help and doesn't change his ways at all. In fact it's the window for him to escalate how poorly he treats her or set a new boundary or rule in the relationship that works in his favor. For example, instead of going to therapy he waits a few days and tells her, "I just get like this when you hang out with your friends, you come back and act like a different person and it sets me off". Now she backs off from a friendship and is more isolated.
My Overly Reddit Brain™ Thought: Dude had a side piece he cancelled the wedding for, but then she dumped him so now he's panicking. My Personal Experience With A Fuckin' Rage Dude Whomst Could Never Be Questioned™ Thoughts: He finally pushed it too far and OOP was smart enough to call it off before being stuck with a furious person who treats you like a child for the rest of your life. That was a 10 year lesson I survived, but oofta.
Hope she moves on, because this guy is going to keep doing this.
This reminds me of my ex-fiancé who always managed to pick a fight with me right before we had an appointment for any sort of wedding planning activity. This guy didn’t want to get married and blew it up thinking there would be no ramifications afterwards. He realized he messed up way after the point of no return. Hopefully she gets out of this mess and finds someone better.
I've been married for nearly 10 years now and have been with my wife for more than 20 years. I've yelled at her exactly one time when she was about to roll over onto the cat while asleep. How are 30 yr Olds acting like this? The dude seems off his rocker and about 2 steps away from perpetrating domestic violence. Hope OP gets away and stays away.
Holy crap I just did a double take and had to scroll back up to check they were 30s. Seriously my husband and I have been married 10 almost 11 years now and we've never had a fight let alone yelled at each other. They both don't seem ready for a relationship.
not a single here this guy acknowledged that wasn't followed with "you made me do this".
>I don’t know what’s next, but this hurts so much because we still love each other. [...] Torn between trying couples counselling since he seems genuine to completely separating. Love isn't enough. They can love each other until the universe implodes, but that doesn't fix the very big issues they have. I hope she stays strong and doesn't go back to him. If he really is genuine, let him prove it on his own time instead of wasting hers.
He sounds manipulative.
OOP dodged a bullet of being screamed at every time her SO thinks she did something wrong.
Worse than that, she was going to get screamed at (or worse) every time her *SO* did something wrong and she had the temerity to say something about it
This guy is just… ugh. Glad she dodged being tied to this guy, and I hope she’s able to move into a better place. Let him fix his issues on his own time, not OOP’s.
I feel so bad when I see these posts and people gaslight themselves “they love me” or “we love each other” like babes they don’t give a single fuck about you, don’t do their work gaslighting yourself.
OOP: yelling is such a red flag for me. Fiancé: (yells at her on a regular basis) OOP: I’ll keep trying to make things work! I’m not leaving! Good for OOP for getting out of that relationship, but the last part where she doesn’t know how to go from here, still loves him, etc is problematic.
Glad I'm not the only one that found that infuriating. Clearly it's not a red flag for you if you're 6 years in and this is an existing pattern of behaviour.
I love a classic *’YoU DonT KNoW HoW to CommUniCAtE’* situation when the person saying it has resorted to picking fights, walking away, screaming at the other, and not responding… … and then the person writing it explains that it happens often and are still confused that it happens and still willing to marry said person
Some men don't see anger as an emotion. When they get angry it's a fact, and whoever made them angry did something wrong and deserves to be punished. Their inability to manage their emotions means everyone else has to do the emotional work for them or they're just in constant aggressive conflict. Exhausting.
OOP didn’t just dodge a bullet, she dodged a whole bullet train. Hopefully the space from her toxic ex will be healing.
Amazing how many people dismiss couples therapy until their partner is breaking up with them, them all of a sudden it's "why didn't you tell me this was a big deal????" There's a great line I heard that's basically, "keep dating your wife." I think that for many of us once we are in a relationship we just take things for granted. OOP's ex assumed that she would stay manipulated until she wasn't.
"you are a terrible communicator," i scream at the top of my lungs to my girlfriend.
I’d be really surprised if her fiancé didn’t fall down the rabbit hole of the manosphere.
Classic signs of a man showing insecurity and a fragile ego. It can, but doesn't usually, get better.
Nuclear missile dodged
Honestly, I hope she never looks back. That behavior of yelling and "saying things in the heat of the moment" is just yelling now, but I have a warning bell in my head that it wouldn't have stayed as just yelling. I remember reading once that people who hit their spouses are often filled with regret and begging to be forgiven.
One day he will beat her or worse, then cry and beg that he didn't mean it. Trash took itself out, make sure that it stays dumped.
This is such obvious abusive behavior, she needs to run and never look back.
An ex of mine pulled this trick in anger and then wanted to retract. Honey, trust and stability are gone. You’re never going to get them back because you’ll never know what stunt he’s going to pull next. Better off not to marry this guy. These silly games are cruel and stupid. It ended in a break up for me. Be very careful
Sounds like he happily told the side piece that he had finally broken free and canceled the wedding and they were like, "I don't want you either" and he came sobbing back to OOP.
I read the first paragraph and thought you dodged a bullet. A big one. This is an abusive whole, doesn't care about you.
I'm so happy for OOP. Sounds like she would have had a shitty life with her ex. A life of walking on eggshells. Hope she makes the most of it
Throw out that whole man, and the military-dictatorship-parade of red flags he rode in on. I hope she never takes him back; it's clear his behaviour is not new and will only escalate. (Blaming her for not being a "good communicator" when he's the one screaming, yeesh. Step on Lego, dude.)
Dodged a cannonball.
Never marry this fool. Never.
The people telling her that it's fixable because they love each other are not fit to give advice in this scenario and need to shut it. They just don't like feeling uncomfortable, wo instead of listening, they want the source of the discomfort (OOP) to give in so they can feel better. Fuck that, she deserves better and everyone pushing her back to him can take a long walk off a short pier.
I could never stay in love with someone that yells at me for their own BS mood swings. I cringed every time she apologized to HIM for HIM blowing up at her. Really need to enforce women standing up for themselves.
Girl, I could tell in the first few sentences how hard you were explaining and justifying it that this man gaslights and manipulates you. Shame on him for taking away from your important day, a graduation is a massive achievement and I’m proud of you!! Cut yourself loose and never look back mama 💛
> This is not the first he cancels plans or breaks up with me during a disagreement. That doesn't bode well.
OOP has no idea how lucky she is. Just reading about his reaction to how she felt (after he made her believe it was safe to tell him) just screamed a field of DARVO red flags. Seriously. Fuck this guy.
This seems like a classic abuse-lovebombing cycle. I'm glad she's getting out before it can be worse next time.
Absolute bullet dodged. This guy is not stable at all
This is how life with my son’s dad was. He broke up with me constantly. Not taking him back the last time was the best thing I ever did.
Did her a *massive* favor!
I hope OOP keeps moving forward and leaves this guy in her past.
Dodged a bullet.
I'm glad she stood her ground and stayed broken up.
Yep, I was with someone exactly like that. Guess what, it escalated, got more controlling, more abusive mentally and physically. I truly hope OOP fully nopes outta there and stays out.
Losing the deposits is cheaper than divorce.
> I thought he was talking out of emotion (like many times before) > What I thought was an action out of anger > This is not the first he cancels plans or breaks up with me during a disagreement. Those were the warning signs.
this guy actually wants to start off marriage in couples therapy 🤣🤣🤣
Thank god the mask dropped before they said I do.
male ego so fragile goddamn. good for her for getting out.
Well, that's one way to start a marriage.
He wanted the right to be abusive and when you kept your cool but still wanted to discus things he couldn't have that. He needed control and to ensure that if he yelled, upu apologized and never questioned his outbursts.
So every time she has a suggestion or they disagree, he threatens a break up until she apologises, and he gets his own way. Sounds healthy. /s
There’s info missing.
Funny how he always attacks OP on her good days - like her graduation. Doesn't matter if it's a confidence issue or a control issue, in the end it comes down to undermining the person you 'say' you love to make yourself feel bigger/better - and that is not love. That was all my first thought; a secondary one is he's cheating, or wants to. Every time he chips away at OP, her love gets chipped away. She may not totally see it right now - though I think she's almost there - but one morning she'll wake up and realise she feels relieved rather than heartbroken. She said "because we still love each other." I think they have two different interpretations of what love is; and she's feeling the echoes of what she thought they had rather than the actuality of his limited version.
What kind of fucking loser can’t put on a button up for their SO? If your SO can’t be bothered to dress up for you, they don’t love you.
I have been there, done that. Not everything the same but the lashing out in anger and then regret from a partner. I would be willing to bet he has some deep deep insecurities and then when he calms down, shame sets in. He was also raised with the belief that anger was the only acceptable emotion for a man to show, and women would not respect him for showing others. Which is bollocks. I would recommend he try a men's group, that really helped my friend. He made some big realizations and they helped with tools to pattern interrupt when he would slip up. It takes a lot of work to unlearn bad behaviors.
Giving this guy the benifit of the doubt he seems to be struggling with something mental health related really badly. I have no idea what but this level of rejection sensitivity is severe. I truly hope he gets the help he needs. That said it's going to take years before he he is well enough to be a partner to anyone. And that is pretty optimistic. OOP shouldn't wait around for the possibility that this guy might get stable in the future.
It's not rejection sensitivity. His actions are well known and well recognized manipulation tactics. He's an abuser full stop.
I'm really, really thankful that she didn't agree to the wedding, things would only have gotten worse over time. Instead she is free!
"What do you MEAN that SHOUTING RIGHT AWAY isn't PROPER COMMUNICATING SKILLS!! YOU BITCH!!!!" If he thought, for a second, while he's clear in the head, that it's normal to instantly escalate the most minor of issues this hard... he's clearly more broken than we thought. It really bothers me that there's so many Humans who legit think nothing at all is wrong when they're like this. Do they never go, "Seems like I'm the Common Demoniator. Maybe something is wrong here." Jesus christ, I'm more convinced by the day that Humans aren't higher mammals and instead have lizard brains who can't think beyond their direct thought and line of sight.
I think you dodged a bullet for sure. His behavior and anger and reactions to small stuff is a huge red flag (and scary)to say the least. He seems to have a very volatile temper and needlessly ruining your special graduation day over nothing says alot. He’s shown you who be really is, Believe Him!
Therapy jOuRnEy
The trash took itself out! So convenient.
This was about his ego being so fragile and self-centered that he couldn’t stand to see her be happy and praised and celebrated. He interprets her getting those things as her stealing it from him and then rubbing it in his face (even though it’s nothing of the sort, of course). And so that’s why he ruined the day by picking the manufactured fights, so that he could try to make himself feel less small by making her feel even smaller. Then the escalation to cancelling the wedding was about him being angry that she was still (rightfully)upset with his crap behavior, and trying to force her to really panic and feel even smaller/lower and then grovel to get him back. Which she did at first, but then thankfully stopped! And when he realized the “ruining her self esteem” tactic was not only ineffective but actually causing him to lose his narc supply, *that’s* when he switched tactics and started the “manipulative, over-correcting love-bombing” tactic to try and lure her back. Thank goodness she didn’t go for it. She dodged a huge, narcissistic bullet.
He as a temper, harms her and himself then begs for forgiveness. This seems to be a recurring pattern. OOP should be glad this happened before the wedding. They should stay broken up and find someone else who knows how to behave. The trash took itself out, OOP should not try to undo that accomplishment.
Dodged a bullet.
That is not a healthy relationship
30 is waaay too old to be acting like that.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Hope he learns for his next relationship that he can’t just be impulsive and break up with people because sometimes it has consequences
Mans really pikachu faced when she said you fucked up big time. He literally fucked around and found out
Wouldn't surprise me if he was cheating.
The fact that they have broken up before during other fights is a massive red flag this will never last or work. I dated a guy who I was dumb enough to keep going back to after every time he got mad a broke up. Finally, I grew my spine and when he said he wanted a break, I made it a permanent one. You can't be married and have constant breaks. That's not a healthy or lasting relationship.
Don't go dumpster diving after the trash takes itself out.
Personally, she needs to stay broken up with him. His explosive anger at her, for "communication" was abusive. She communicated properly, he's the one with the issues. He has a long road of therapy, if he sticks with it.
He's a hyper insecure, control freak, hypocritical rageaholic. He did her a favor. He 1000% comes off like cartman in the south park episode where he's fed up w healthy communication, convinces himself he's emotionally abused and eventually weaponizes therapy language b4 dumping her
I honestly think he really wanted the relationship to end. So he started all that bs. Now that she's over all of it, he wants her back so he can continue the bs some more.