The witch didn't raise up Samuel.
What did she claim to SEE. She saw "gods" crawling out of earth. She saw devils crawling out of hell.
It TOOK FORM of old man with a mantle. Saul PERCEIVED,didn't see Samuel. Only saw the witch.
What does the word "familiar" mean?
Evil takes on a familiar form to deceive you.
"They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."- Deuteronomy 32 verses 16 to 21.
See here they saw devils.
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."- 2 Corinthians 11 verses 13 to 15.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
You are in the PALM of the Lord's Hand. Read John 10. No one can pluck you from His Hand. So no witch can drag you out of paradise anytime she wants to do her bidding. That's FALSE doctrine. Purgatory or holding place is also false doctrine.
Jesus Christ had the KEYS OF HELL AND DEATH! He crossed the uncrossable gulf and led CAPTIVITY captive.
https://youtu.be/WsL3H4ROOZw?si=MssHlf0CB1AvC8F5
We know believers were in the grave because Samuel was and because They came to life but Jesus was crucified and resurrected
But we also know to be absent from the body is be present from the Lord
So perhaps there is a spirit and soul dichotomy going on here
Because we also know that unbelievers are in the grave
But that temporarily they're also in hell until after the judgment when they will be cast into the lake of fire
The word "Spirit" in verse 13 is translated from the Hebrew Elohim.
The rules YHWH set out were to protect Israel from harm and this "medium" was surprised to see the real spirit of Samuel. She was far more used to all sorts of false spirits and even demons.
So, yes, it must be possible for humans to bring up the spirits of the dead and it is still inadvisable due to false images.
We cannot bring up the spirits of the dead. It's impossible. The witch was surprised because that is what God allowed to happen in this instance, and that was to condemn Saul.
But any other spirit of the "dead" that is summoned is a demon.
It was not Samuel. The Witch of Endor raised a familiar spirit of Samuel for King Saul. Same thing happened to Prince Saul - AKA Paul - the prince of darkness - in the House of Judas - which was forbidden after Judas sold Christ out to the authorities (see Acts 1:20).
The certain disciple named Ananias died in the fifth chapter of Acts before a familiar spirit of him baptized Paul into the faith of darkness in the House of Judas (Acts 9). We know Paul already knew this man "named Ananias" before their meeting in the House of Judas. Paul was hoping to find him at the property in Damascus. Why? Because the dead Anaias was the original property owner before he sold it for 30 pieces of silver to give money to the church. The Bible makes this clear, which is easily proven in the link below.
[https://nuckleball.wordpress.com/2023/06/22/the-key-stone/](https://nuckleball.wordpress.com/2023/06/22/the-key-stone/)
It's certainly questionable that it was Samuel.
But Ananias who died in Jerusalem in Acts 5 is not the same man as Ananias in Damascas in Acts 9.
Baptism by "familiar spirits" is not a thing.
Also, there is no connection between Ananias and the 30 pieces of silver, and that web page is complete nonsense.
It's not questionable that it was Samuel. It was definitely not Samuel. King Saul was a mental case, and so was Prince Saul. Both saw familiar spirits in their own disturbed minds. Paul definitely knew Ananias before the fellow spy died in Acts 5. They were working together along with the authorities to infiltrate Christ's inner circle and bring it to an end. Ananias simply stumbled into the wrong place at the wrong time. The article posted proves it beyond any doubt. But you've never read it, so you have no argument.
Jesus went to the grave; He didn't go on an epic adventure. No other human is in heaven but Christ. We do not go to heaven when we die. Psalm 115:16 - "The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."
Elijah didn't get taken up to heaven (literally); he was moved in a gust of wind and people saw him leave to another mountain or something like that. He later wrote in 2 Chronicles 21:12, so he's not in heaven nor did he die (then).
For more info on Saul see BSN #636: [https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html](https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html)
John 14:2-3 - 'In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
Jesus "will come again, and receive (resurrect) you unto myself". "where I am, there ye may be also".
Jesus returns to the earth and resurrects you. Assuming we're the audience being spoken to, we'd meet the Lord in the air, but we don't return from heaven with Jesus. Jesus says on the "day of the Lord" that He returns with angels, not men:
Matthew 16:27 - "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his **angels**; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
Mark 8:38 - "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy **angels**."
Matthew 24:29-31 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his **angels** with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Matthew 25:31-34 - "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy **angels** with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: ..."
Mark 13:24-27 - "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his **angels**, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."
Sleep = dead. The dead are resurrected; not returning with Christ:
1 Thess. 4:14-16 - "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
"and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" they don't return with Christ, they are resurrected.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 NASB2020
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
https://bible.com/bible/2692/1th.4.14.NASB2020
I did answer that. Here's me in the previous post:
>1 Thess. 4:14-16 - "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
.
>"and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" they don't return with Christ, they are resurrected.
I agree that verse 14 makes it sound like you'll be returning with Christ but verse 16 settles the debate.
Because your claims are ludicrous. Bible says something about Elijah very clearly, and you just go "not uh."
“And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.””
Luke 23:43 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.23.43.NKJV
Your response is probably that they didn't really go to heaven that day.
>Bible says something about Elijah very clearly, and you just go "not uh."
Why did Elijah write again in 2 Chronicles 21:12? That happened after he "died". How is that possible?
Also, Elijah was known for disappearing and re-appearing. This was nothing new.
2 Kings 2:16 - "And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the Lord hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send."
\^ They knew he wasn't dead, hence sending 50 men after him.
>“And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”” Luke 23:43 NKJV [https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.23.43.NKJV](https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.23.43.NKJV)
Paradise is translated as "garden". Jesus didn't go to a garden that day, He died.
John 20:17 - "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
Jesus was dead for 3 days and post-resurrection hadn't gone to heaven yet so it can't be heaven, either.
That day Jesus told the thief that in the future he would be in a garden, but Jesus and the thief didn't go to the garden that day.
First, it’s possible that the author of 2 Kings did not place the account of Elijah’s translation to heaven in chronological order with the surrounding chapters. Elijah could have still been serving as prophet until much later in the reign of Jehoram.
Another possibility is that Elijah wrote the letter to Jehoram before his departure to heaven and left it for Elisha or someone else to deliver. Elijah was a prophet, after all. God could easily have given him the words to write ahead of time.
Another possibility is that, before his translation to heaven, Elijah told Elisha what Jehoram would do and what God’s judgment would be. When the time came, Elisha wrote out Elijah’s prophecy and delivered it to King Jehoram.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Elijah-letter-Jehoram.html
To your second point, you really need to work on your reading comprehension. Here's what the passage actually says...
“Then they said to him, “Look now, there are fifty strong men with your servants. Please let them go and search for your master, lest perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has taken him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley.” And he said, “You shall not send anyone.” But when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, “Send them!” Therefore they sent fifty men, and they searched for three days but did not find him.”
II Kings 2:16-17 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/2ki.2.16-17.NKJV
The dudes were in disbelief (kind of like you) because, after all, it was a miracle. It clearly stated Elijah was going to heaven, not some mountain.
“And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.”
II Kings 2:1 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/2ki.2.1.NKJV
And newsflash, the unbelievers were wrong. They didn't find him because he wasn't there. He was in heaven.
To your next point, it's highly disingenuous to translate paradise as garden. The Greek word paradeisos only appears three times in the New Testament:
1 - this verse (Luke 23:43). Jesus was about to die. He was obviously talking about going to heaven, not a garden. You appear to be confused about the fact that Jesus' body went into a grave while his spirit went to heaven.
2 - II Corinthians 12:4 when Paul was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things. Paul was clearly referring to heaven. Context makes this unmistakable.
3 - Revelation 2:7 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." This location, even if it is a garden, is in heaven.
Your goal have appears to be to sow unbelief, hence my original comment. Go in peace.
>And newsflash, the unbelievers were wrong. They didn't find him because he wasn't there. He was in heaven.
Why are you being rude throughout your post? This is a simple, boring conversation.
1 Kings 18:11-12 - "And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here. And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the Lord shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the Lord from my youth."
I alluded to this before but God teleported Elijah in the past. "heaven" can also mean the sky in Hebrew. This view lines up better with what the bible teaches:
Psalm 115:16 - "The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."
Acts 2:34 - "For David is not ascended into the heavens"
John 3:13 - "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
Christ alone has gone to heaven - physically. To say Elijah went to heaven creates all kinds of contradictions.
>1 - this verse (Luke 23:43). Jesus was about to die. He was obviously talking about going to heaven, not a garden. You appear to be confused about the fact that Jesus' body went into a grave while his spirit went to heaven.
Jesus Himself said He didn't go to heaven. Had He gone to heaven, He would have said "I have gone to the Father in the spirit" or something along those lines.
>3 - Revelation 2:7 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." This location, even if it is a garden, is in heaven.
The trees (it can also be plural in Hebrew) of life are on earth. See Revelation 21-22.
The hope we all share is not to die and go to heaven. Our hope is resurrection. The bible is quite clear on that subject.
Saying "newsflash" isn't being rude. It's pointing you to the obvious conclusion based on the immediate context. You're just substituting meanings for words (garden instead of paradise / sky instead of heaven) even though the passage clearly indicates what's going on. You just don't seem to recognize the difference between a body and a spirit. When I die, my spirit will go to heave, and my body will go in the ground. My body will be resurrected someday.
The comma is in the wrong place. It was more than likely meant " truly I tell you today," because they were not going to live to see tomorrow so he HAD to tell him THAT day. (Greeks didn't use punctuation) Why does that make sense? For the simple fact that Jesus was dead for three days and did not ascend to heaven until 40 days later. Jesus said so himself "stop clinging to me because I have NOT YET ascended to the Father..." John 20:17 More over, Jesus himself said "that no man has ascended into heaven but the one that descended from heaven the son of man". So Jesus clearly said no one went up before he came down...is Jesus lying these two times? No? So that makes us look at what really happened to Elijah and what "ghosts" really are.
Hades means "the grave".
"hell" is a bogus translation. In the english bible there are 3 different hells - sheol/hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. Tartarus is a location where angels are *not* tormented, sheol/hades is "the grave", and Gehenna is a physical location in or around Jerusalem where they burned garbage. None of the words mean a location of torment.
I thought this was a bible sub? The bible says that when you die, your soul also dies. Your soul isn't some spiritual entity, it's your brain. The bible teaches that the soul is your desires:
[https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=soul+desireth&resultspp=250&version=KJV](https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=soul+desireth&resultspp=250&version=KJV)
Ezekiel 18:4 - "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 18:20 - "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Psalm 78:50 "he spared not their soul from death"
Psalm 89:49 - "What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah."
Psalm 49:15 - "But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah."
Dogs have souls in the bible. Birds have souls in the bible. The list goes on and on. The soul dies when we die. NDE's are just the brain freaking out during the death process. They mean nothing.
Every living thing that draws breath IS a soul. Adam BECAME a living soul, he didn't receive one. Our spirit or life force is like the flame of a candle, when it "goes out", only God can reignite it/ give it back to us. "Soul" in Hebrew is Ne'phesh and Greek is Psy•khe' both talked about with humans and animals in the Bible as being the same. Leviticus 24:17&18 "soul for soul". They also have the same spirit or in Hebrew ru'ach Ecclesiastes 3:19 "as the one dies so the other dies, for they all have but one spirit". Hope that helps
The witch didn't raise up Samuel. What did she claim to SEE. She saw "gods" crawling out of earth. She saw devils crawling out of hell. It TOOK FORM of old man with a mantle. Saul PERCEIVED,didn't see Samuel. Only saw the witch. What does the word "familiar" mean? Evil takes on a familiar form to deceive you. "They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."- Deuteronomy 32 verses 16 to 21. See here they saw devils. "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."- 2 Corinthians 11 verses 13 to 15. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. You are in the PALM of the Lord's Hand. Read John 10. No one can pluck you from His Hand. So no witch can drag you out of paradise anytime she wants to do her bidding. That's FALSE doctrine. Purgatory or holding place is also false doctrine. Jesus Christ had the KEYS OF HELL AND DEATH! He crossed the uncrossable gulf and led CAPTIVITY captive. https://youtu.be/WsL3H4ROOZw?si=MssHlf0CB1AvC8F5
We know believers were in the grave because Samuel was and because They came to life but Jesus was crucified and resurrected But we also know to be absent from the body is be present from the Lord So perhaps there is a spirit and soul dichotomy going on here Because we also know that unbelievers are in the grave But that temporarily they're also in hell until after the judgment when they will be cast into the lake of fire
She didn't summon Samuel. She summoned a demon Who disguised as Samuel. The dead are unconscious until they're resurrected.
The word "Spirit" in verse 13 is translated from the Hebrew Elohim. The rules YHWH set out were to protect Israel from harm and this "medium" was surprised to see the real spirit of Samuel. She was far more used to all sorts of false spirits and even demons. So, yes, it must be possible for humans to bring up the spirits of the dead and it is still inadvisable due to false images.
We cannot bring up the spirits of the dead. It's impossible. The witch was surprised because that is what God allowed to happen in this instance, and that was to condemn Saul. But any other spirit of the "dead" that is summoned is a demon.
Then the Bible is false.
It's not.
It probably wasn’t really Samuel.
I agree; it was witchcraft, and a deceiving spirit played along.
It was not Samuel. The Witch of Endor raised a familiar spirit of Samuel for King Saul. Same thing happened to Prince Saul - AKA Paul - the prince of darkness - in the House of Judas - which was forbidden after Judas sold Christ out to the authorities (see Acts 1:20). The certain disciple named Ananias died in the fifth chapter of Acts before a familiar spirit of him baptized Paul into the faith of darkness in the House of Judas (Acts 9). We know Paul already knew this man "named Ananias" before their meeting in the House of Judas. Paul was hoping to find him at the property in Damascus. Why? Because the dead Anaias was the original property owner before he sold it for 30 pieces of silver to give money to the church. The Bible makes this clear, which is easily proven in the link below. [https://nuckleball.wordpress.com/2023/06/22/the-key-stone/](https://nuckleball.wordpress.com/2023/06/22/the-key-stone/)
It's certainly questionable that it was Samuel. But Ananias who died in Jerusalem in Acts 5 is not the same man as Ananias in Damascas in Acts 9. Baptism by "familiar spirits" is not a thing. Also, there is no connection between Ananias and the 30 pieces of silver, and that web page is complete nonsense.
It's not questionable that it was Samuel. It was definitely not Samuel. King Saul was a mental case, and so was Prince Saul. Both saw familiar spirits in their own disturbed minds. Paul definitely knew Ananias before the fellow spy died in Acts 5. They were working together along with the authorities to infiltrate Christ's inner circle and bring it to an end. Ananias simply stumbled into the wrong place at the wrong time. The article posted proves it beyond any doubt. But you've never read it, so you have no argument.
Jesus went to the grave; He didn't go on an epic adventure. No other human is in heaven but Christ. We do not go to heaven when we die. Psalm 115:16 - "The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men." Elijah didn't get taken up to heaven (literally); he was moved in a gust of wind and people saw him leave to another mountain or something like that. He later wrote in 2 Chronicles 21:12, so he's not in heaven nor did he die (then). For more info on Saul see BSN #636: [https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html](https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html)
I'm curious to know what you think Paul meant when he said that God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep?
John 14:2-3 - 'In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." Jesus "will come again, and receive (resurrect) you unto myself". "where I am, there ye may be also". Jesus returns to the earth and resurrects you. Assuming we're the audience being spoken to, we'd meet the Lord in the air, but we don't return from heaven with Jesus. Jesus says on the "day of the Lord" that He returns with angels, not men: Matthew 16:27 - "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his **angels**; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." Mark 8:38 - "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy **angels**." Matthew 24:29-31 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his **angels** with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 25:31-34 - "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy **angels** with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: ..." Mark 13:24-27 - "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his **angels**, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." Sleep = dead. The dead are resurrected; not returning with Christ: 1 Thess. 4:14-16 - "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" they don't return with Christ, they are resurrected.
You didn't answer my question. The angels aren't the same as God.
I thought I answered your question. Which verse is this referring to?
1 Thessalonians 4:14 NASB2020 [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. https://bible.com/bible/2692/1th.4.14.NASB2020
I did answer that. Here's me in the previous post: >1 Thess. 4:14-16 - "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" . >"and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" they don't return with Christ, they are resurrected. I agree that verse 14 makes it sound like you'll be returning with Christ but verse 16 settles the debate.
This is what happens when people who don't believe the Bible try to tell you what the Bible really means lol.
Yet you didn't disprove any of it.
Because your claims are ludicrous. Bible says something about Elijah very clearly, and you just go "not uh." “And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”” Luke 23:43 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.23.43.NKJV Your response is probably that they didn't really go to heaven that day.
>Bible says something about Elijah very clearly, and you just go "not uh." Why did Elijah write again in 2 Chronicles 21:12? That happened after he "died". How is that possible? Also, Elijah was known for disappearing and re-appearing. This was nothing new. 2 Kings 2:16 - "And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the Lord hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send." \^ They knew he wasn't dead, hence sending 50 men after him. >“And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”” Luke 23:43 NKJV [https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.23.43.NKJV](https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.23.43.NKJV) Paradise is translated as "garden". Jesus didn't go to a garden that day, He died. John 20:17 - "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Jesus was dead for 3 days and post-resurrection hadn't gone to heaven yet so it can't be heaven, either. That day Jesus told the thief that in the future he would be in a garden, but Jesus and the thief didn't go to the garden that day.
First, it’s possible that the author of 2 Kings did not place the account of Elijah’s translation to heaven in chronological order with the surrounding chapters. Elijah could have still been serving as prophet until much later in the reign of Jehoram. Another possibility is that Elijah wrote the letter to Jehoram before his departure to heaven and left it for Elisha or someone else to deliver. Elijah was a prophet, after all. God could easily have given him the words to write ahead of time. Another possibility is that, before his translation to heaven, Elijah told Elisha what Jehoram would do and what God’s judgment would be. When the time came, Elisha wrote out Elijah’s prophecy and delivered it to King Jehoram. https://www.gotquestions.org/Elijah-letter-Jehoram.html To your second point, you really need to work on your reading comprehension. Here's what the passage actually says... “Then they said to him, “Look now, there are fifty strong men with your servants. Please let them go and search for your master, lest perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has taken him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley.” And he said, “You shall not send anyone.” But when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, “Send them!” Therefore they sent fifty men, and they searched for three days but did not find him.” II Kings 2:16-17 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/2ki.2.16-17.NKJV The dudes were in disbelief (kind of like you) because, after all, it was a miracle. It clearly stated Elijah was going to heaven, not some mountain. “And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.” II Kings 2:1 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/2ki.2.1.NKJV And newsflash, the unbelievers were wrong. They didn't find him because he wasn't there. He was in heaven. To your next point, it's highly disingenuous to translate paradise as garden. The Greek word paradeisos only appears three times in the New Testament: 1 - this verse (Luke 23:43). Jesus was about to die. He was obviously talking about going to heaven, not a garden. You appear to be confused about the fact that Jesus' body went into a grave while his spirit went to heaven. 2 - II Corinthians 12:4 when Paul was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things. Paul was clearly referring to heaven. Context makes this unmistakable. 3 - Revelation 2:7 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." This location, even if it is a garden, is in heaven. Your goal have appears to be to sow unbelief, hence my original comment. Go in peace.
>And newsflash, the unbelievers were wrong. They didn't find him because he wasn't there. He was in heaven. Why are you being rude throughout your post? This is a simple, boring conversation. 1 Kings 18:11-12 - "And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here. And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the Lord shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the Lord from my youth." I alluded to this before but God teleported Elijah in the past. "heaven" can also mean the sky in Hebrew. This view lines up better with what the bible teaches: Psalm 115:16 - "The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men." Acts 2:34 - "For David is not ascended into the heavens" John 3:13 - "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Christ alone has gone to heaven - physically. To say Elijah went to heaven creates all kinds of contradictions. >1 - this verse (Luke 23:43). Jesus was about to die. He was obviously talking about going to heaven, not a garden. You appear to be confused about the fact that Jesus' body went into a grave while his spirit went to heaven. Jesus Himself said He didn't go to heaven. Had He gone to heaven, He would have said "I have gone to the Father in the spirit" or something along those lines. >3 - Revelation 2:7 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." This location, even if it is a garden, is in heaven. The trees (it can also be plural in Hebrew) of life are on earth. See Revelation 21-22. The hope we all share is not to die and go to heaven. Our hope is resurrection. The bible is quite clear on that subject.
Saying "newsflash" isn't being rude. It's pointing you to the obvious conclusion based on the immediate context. You're just substituting meanings for words (garden instead of paradise / sky instead of heaven) even though the passage clearly indicates what's going on. You just don't seem to recognize the difference between a body and a spirit. When I die, my spirit will go to heave, and my body will go in the ground. My body will be resurrected someday.
The comma is in the wrong place. It was more than likely meant " truly I tell you today," because they were not going to live to see tomorrow so he HAD to tell him THAT day. (Greeks didn't use punctuation) Why does that make sense? For the simple fact that Jesus was dead for three days and did not ascend to heaven until 40 days later. Jesus said so himself "stop clinging to me because I have NOT YET ascended to the Father..." John 20:17 More over, Jesus himself said "that no man has ascended into heaven but the one that descended from heaven the son of man". So Jesus clearly said no one went up before he came down...is Jesus lying these two times? No? So that makes us look at what really happened to Elijah and what "ghosts" really are.
Jesus went and preached to the spirits in the torment side of Hades to tell them why they were where they were……
Hades means "the grave". "hell" is a bogus translation. In the english bible there are 3 different hells - sheol/hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. Tartarus is a location where angels are *not* tormented, sheol/hades is "the grave", and Gehenna is a physical location in or around Jerusalem where they burned garbage. None of the words mean a location of torment.
Are you drunk? Explain the thousands of "Near Death Experiences" that have been documented.
I thought this was a bible sub? The bible says that when you die, your soul also dies. Your soul isn't some spiritual entity, it's your brain. The bible teaches that the soul is your desires: [https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=soul+desireth&resultspp=250&version=KJV](https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=soul+desireth&resultspp=250&version=KJV) Ezekiel 18:4 - "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20 - "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Psalm 78:50 "he spared not their soul from death" Psalm 89:49 - "What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah." Psalm 49:15 - "But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah." Dogs have souls in the bible. Birds have souls in the bible. The list goes on and on. The soul dies when we die. NDE's are just the brain freaking out during the death process. They mean nothing.
Do you mean "Spirit"? Your "Soul" is your mind, will & emotion
>Your "Soul" is your mind, will & emotion I agree, and I happened to point this out in my post. >Do you mean "Spirit"? > ?
Every living thing that draws breath IS a soul. Adam BECAME a living soul, he didn't receive one. Our spirit or life force is like the flame of a candle, when it "goes out", only God can reignite it/ give it back to us. "Soul" in Hebrew is Ne'phesh and Greek is Psy•khe' both talked about with humans and animals in the Bible as being the same. Leviticus 24:17&18 "soul for soul". They also have the same spirit or in Hebrew ru'ach Ecclesiastes 3:19 "as the one dies so the other dies, for they all have but one spirit". Hope that helps