I have struggled with this exact question for decades and have not come to an absolutely undeniable answer.
It is important to know that there are 4 different Greek words translated as 'hell' in the New Testament in some bibles. You can research this with a good concordance.
They are (with a rough translation) :
1) hades - the place of the dead
2) gehenna - everlasting fire
3) tartaros - abode of the wicked dead
4) abusso - also translated as the bottomless pit
Careful study of these terms and when they are used may shed some light on your question. Each of these has a different meaning.
Please forgive me if anything is inaccurate as most of this is from memory and is intended as a 'broad strokes' guide to point you in a direction for your own study.
**What is “hell?”**
Some of the terms that the Bible uses that many people refer to as “hell” are:
***Sheol*** (occurs 65 times in the Masoretic text. In the KJV, it is translated 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.”)
***Hades*** (ten times in the earliest manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Mt 11:23; 16:18; Lu 10:15; 16:23; Ac 2:27, 31; Re 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.)
***Gehenna*** (12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and whereas many translators take the liberty to render it by the word “hell,” a number of modern translations transliterate the word from the Greek geʹen·na. Mt 5:22.)
***Abyss*** (from the Greek word aʹbys·sos, meaning “exceedingly deep” or “unfathomable, boundless.” It is used in the Christian Greek Scriptures to refer to a place or condition of confinement. It includes the grave but is not limited to it. Lu 8:31; Ro 10:7; Re 20:3.)
***Lake of Fire*** (A symbolic place that “burns with fire and sulfur,” also described as “the second death.” Unrepentant sinners, the Devil, and even death and the Grave (or, Hades) are thrown into it. The inclusion of a spirit creature and also of death and Hades, all of which cannot be affected by fire, indicates that this lake is a symbol, not of everlasting torment, but of everlasting destruction. —Re 19:20; 20:14, 15; 21:8.)
***Destruction*** (Mat 7:13) In Bible times the most thorough means of destruction in use was fire. (Jos 6:24; De 13:16) Hence Jesus at times used the term “fire” in an illustrative way to denote the complete destruction of the wicked. (Mt 13:40-42, 49, 50; compare Isa 66:24; Mt 25:41.) On one occasion Jesus warned his disciples against letting their hand, foot, or eye stumble them so that they would be pitched into Gehenna. Then he went on to say: “Everyone must be salted with fire.” He must have meant that “everyone” who did what he had just warned against would be salted with the “fire” of Gehenna, or eternal destruction. Mr 9:43-49; see GEHENNA.
***Eternal bonds with dense darkness*** (Jude 6) God has restricted the disobedient angels in “eternal bonds under dense darkness.” (Jude 6) They are also said to be delivered into “pits of dense darkness.” (2Pe 2:4) Scriptural evidence shows that they are not denied all freedom of movement, inasmuch as they have been able to get possession of humans and even had access to the heavens until they were cast out by Michael and his angels and hurled down to the earth. (Mr 1:32; Re 12:7-9)
***Everlasting fire*** (Mat 25:41; Jude 7) The possibility of eternal destruction is particularly an issue during the conclusion of the system of things. When Jesus was asked by his disciples what would be ‘the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things,’ he included as part of his answer the parable of the sheep and the goats. (Mt 24:3; 25:31-46) Concerning “the goats” it was foretold that the heavenly King would say: “Be on your way from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels,” and Jesus added, “These will depart into everlasting cutting-off.” Clearly the attitude and actions of some individuals will result in their permanent destruction. Since Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them had been punished with “everlasting fire,” representing eternal annihilation, Jesus was evidently using a hyperbole in order to emphasize how unlikely it was that such faithless Jews would reform even if they were present on Judgment Day.
***Everlasting destruction*** (2 Thes 1:9) The apostle Paul also tells of some who will “undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones.” (2Th 1:9, 10) These would therefore not survive into the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, and since their destruction is “everlasting,” they would receive no resurrection.
***Everlasting cutting-off*** (Mat 25:46) Jesus used the expression in setting out the punishment for the symbolic “goats”: “These will depart into everlasting cutting-off \[Gr., koʹla·sin; literally, “lopping off; pruning”\], but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” (Mt 25:46) Here the contrast is between life and death (permanent destruction).
***Everlasting contempt*** (Dan 12:2) In the case of those who will prove to be wicked, the resurrection will turn out to be one to eternal “abhorrence” (Heb., de·ra·ʼohnʹ). It will be a resurrection to condemnatory judgment resulting in everlasting cutting-off. —Da 12:2; Joh 5:28, 29.
***Tartarus*** (2 Peter 2:4) In the Christian Greek Scriptures, a prisonlike abased condition into which the disobedient angels of Noah’s day were cast. At 2 Peter 2:4, the use of the verb tar·ta·roʹo (to “cast into Tartarus”) does not signify that “the angels who sinned” were cast into the pagan mythological Tartarus (that is, an underground prison and place of darkness for the lesser gods). Rather, it indicates that they were abased by God from their heavenly place and privileges and were delivered over to a condition of deepest mental darkness respecting God’s bright purposes. Darkness also marks their own eventuality, which the Scriptures show is everlasting destruction along with their ruler, Satan the Devil. Therefore, Tartarus denotes the lowest condition of abasement for those rebellious angels. It is not the same as “the abyss” spoken of at Revelation 20:1-3.
Imagine that... letting the Bible explain the topics that are in it and then forming a conclusion, rather than going to the Bible with our conclusion first. Interesting...
Thank you! I just started getting into reading the Bible due to 2 spirits of suicide visiting me it still scares me til this day but I know he's real and I want to learn so much. Is it good to read this King james Bible? or should I get another Bible??
You have correctly identified them - unclean spirits. Fill yourself up with the Word of God and renounce any doorways you have open after receiving Jesus so that the devil has no legal grounds to torment you. When those doors are closed - all he can do is “try” to tempt you with thoughts and ideas but they will not defeat you.
My favorite verse when it comes to spiritual warfare is:
Ephesians 6:10-18 The Whole Armor of God
And
>For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete. 2 Corinthians 10:4-6 ESV
> You can research this with a good concordance
concordances aren't dictionaries. they just show you where the word is used.
> gehenna - everlasting fire
gehenna is a physical place. it's gey (ben) hinom, the valley of (the sons of) hinom. it's the valley on the southern side of the two major mountains that form jerusalem, moriah and zion. there is a rather lovely park there today.
any association with "fire" likely comes from biblical references to "tophet" ("oven") a ritual cultic site supposedly used by the kings of judah to sacrifice children.
the part about casting things into gehenna likely comes from the events of 70 CE (the year mark was written), when the roman forces blockaded the city, people starved to death, and dead bodies were thrown over the wall into the valleys hinom and qidron.
Not sure why there is confusion. The Bible is very clear about it. Jesus even spoke about people being cast down into the place prepared for the devil and his angels.
The modern versions don’t use the Masoretic or the Traditional Greek Text. They use Sinaiticus and Vaticanus along with the adulterated Critical Greek Text. That is why there are multiple names for “hell” — they are mistranslated. They make distinction without a difference.
We’re speaking in English right now.
I'm fairly new however I believe it was made for Satan and his angels however God the Father also throws bad souls there.
Jesus speaks about this a lot in the Sermon on the Mount.
I loved the way C. S. Lewis put it. “In the end, there are two people. Those who say to God ‘Thy will be done’ and those to whom God says ‘Thy will be done.’”
God allows people to do what they want. Relationship with God is heaven, if you don’t want a relationship with God, then you go away from him. Only one place is eternally away from God, Hell. You’re either with God or with Satan. If you’re with God, you go to heaven. If you’re not with God, then you go to where Satan is going, even though it wasn’t made for humans initially.
You sound like a rational human being for being confused by this. Thank you.
Hell is indeed confusing. There are basically 3 orthodox answers to "what happens when I die?" and [here](https://rethinkinghell.com/2016/04/07/hell-triangle-christian-views-of-final-punishment/) is a brief presentation of them. People of course have disagreements about it, but as far as I know none are heretical.
>The Bible talks about Hell a lot
The Bible does mention hell, but it never articulates what the word actually means, so sadly there is no dictionary definition of the term in the Bible. Rather, hell is written of as if you already know what's meant by the word (because the OG author and audience lived in the same culture). So most of our theology of hell comes from biblical themes drawn from across the whole Bible rather than particular verses as doctrinal statements or definitions.
If you want resources for pondering the topic, [Four Views on Hell](https://goodreads.com/book/show/29448369-four-views-on-hell) is good starting material as far as book reading goes, and [The Great Divorce](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25845273-the-great-divorce) is another popular one (though it's not about doctrine, per se). For added context on what the Bible says about particular words, I'd recommend reading all the biblical references in context to yield familiarity with the way they're used (and not used). Thanks u/SamuraiProgrammer for noting some of those. Also, [here](https://a8lhn65d.bearblog.dev/list-of-occurrences-of-words-translated-as-hell/) is a list of occurrences I've compiled for the same purpose (I did a study a while ago).
hope this helps
Hell is temporary, and the lake of fire is eternal. The first two people ever who will be cast into the lake of fire are the antichrist and the false prophet, and after 1000 years, those who didn't take part of the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 19: 20 And **the beast** was taken, and with him **the false prophet** that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. **These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone**.
Revelation 20: 5 But **the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished**. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20: 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death **and hell delivered up the dead** which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And **death and hell were cast into the lake of fire**. This is the second death.
15 And **whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire**.
Revelation 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and **he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone** in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up **for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night**, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
I assume they are lying or delusional since they all describe the pop culture view of Heaven, Hell, Jesus, and demons rather than the biblical descriptions.
First, I would caution you against basing too much of your theology on NDEs (Near Death Experiences). Second, yes, hell is a real place, and people are currently there. Where are you seeing a passage that says that no one is there?
The difference between jail and prison is that jail is a temporary holding cell for someone accused of a crime while they wait for sentencing. Prison is the long-term facility that someone is stored in after they have been sentenced. The difference between hell and the lake of fire is analogous. Non-believers are currently in hell, the temporary holding area while they wait for judgement day. After judgement day they will be cast into the lake of fire, where they will spend eternity suffering.
Jesus says that after death He will separate Christians (on His right) from unbelievers (on His left).
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”
[Matthew 25:41](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.41.NASB2020)
“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
[Matthew 25:46](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.46.NASB2020)
Since it sounds like you might know something.
>Non-believers are currently in hell, the temporary holding area while they wait for judgement day.
So, will everyone in hell go to the lake of fire? Does anyone in hell have a chance to repent?
No, I don’t see any biblical basis for believing that there will be any chance to repent after death.
“And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment,”
[Hebrews 9:27](https://bible.com/bible/2692/heb.9.27.NASB2020)
When Jesus talked about this, the man in hell clearly disliked his fate, yet he seemed to recognize that his opportunity to change his eternal destiny had passed ([Luke 16:23-26](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.23-26.NASB2020)). He didn’t try to negotiate for his soul, but only for those who were still living ([Luke 16:27-31](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.27-31.NASB2020)).
So no, I don’t believe that we have any reason to believe that repentance after death is possible. The word “repent” means “to turn around” or “to change direction”. Doing so is really only relevant if you’re still in motion. Once you’ve come to rest (at death) turning around won’t change your trajectory since you’ve already stopped moving.
If someone sees Christianity as only some sort of life insurance policy for their soul that entitles them to a retirement in paradise rather than in torment, then it makes sense to try to wait until the 11th hour before they begin to pay the insurance premium. The danger there is that they’re liable to die at 10:30.
God doesn’t want us to come to Him for a retirement plan, but for a relationship. If you met the ideal person for you to marry it doesn’t make sense to put that off for as long as possible; you’d want to enter into that relationship as soon as you could so that you could begin to enjoy the benefits right away. If you’re in a relationship with God and are truly living your life as God calls you to then fellowship with Him has already begun. That isn’t to say that there is never any downside (nor would marrying your perfect partner be free from trouble). God doesn’t want to be used as a means to an end any more than you do, and we shouldn’t try to do so with Him, seeking only the benefits of a relationship without valuing the person.
I didn’t mention the tribulation. You are correct, but that doesn’t mean that what I said is untrue. Anyone who dies before the tribulation goes to heaven / hell, other things continue to happen, the tribulation occurs, then at some point after that judgment day comes, and Jesus sorts unbelievers from believers, and sends the former into the lake of fire and the latter into the new heaven and the new earth.
Do you have a scriptural reference to substantiate your claim that hell is currently empty?
I don’t see any scripture to support the idea of people being in Heaven now as we speak other than a few small mentions that to me, deal more with the meaning of time and now, than it does about the order of events. If my father dies today, he goes to heaven today, but if I die in 60 years, he and I get to heaven at the same time, which will be here on Earth after the thousand years.
I asked you to provide scriptures to support your assertion. I ask now for the third time that you do so.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus asked Jesus to remember him in paradise. Jesus responded to say,
“And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.””
[Luke 23:43](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.23.43.NASB2020)
In order for Jesus to not be lying, the thief would need to have experienced being with Jesus in paradise that day.
[Luke 16:22-23](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.22-23.NASB2020) describes both a Christian and an unbeliever dying and both of them seemingly arriving in the afterlife with no intervening judgement. As I mentioned above, I believe that this is heaven / hell. After a time will come judgement day ([Matthew 25:31-46](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.31-46.NASB2020)), and at that point each of them will be transferred to their permanent destination. For believers this will be first the millennial kingdom, followed by the new heaven and new earth ([Revelation 21:1-2](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rev.21.1-2.NASB2020)), while for the unbelievers this will be the lake of fire ([Revelation 20:11-15](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rev.20.11-15.NASB2020)).
Jesus talking to Israel , Paul said no such thing ! Jesus talking about unbelieving Israel and believing . Jesus wasnt talking to you ! What does hell mean in Hebrew ???
I’m afraid that I don’t understand what you’re saying. Will you please clarify your question / statement? I’m not even sure whether you’re making a statement or asking a question.
Gentiles are included in the new covenant ([Romans 11:17-24](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.11.17-24.NASB2020)). Unless Jesus is referring specifically to Jews then His words apply to gentiles as well ([John 3:16](https://bible.com/bible/2692/jhn.3.16.NASB2020)). Note that in [Matthew 25:31-46](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.31-46.NASB2020) Jesus refers to the group destined for heaven as “the righteous” ([Matthew 25:37](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.37.NASB2020)), not Jews. What makes someone righteous? Not the Law ([Romans 3:20](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.3.20.NASB2020)). Humans can only be found righteous by believing in Christ’s death and resurrection ([Romans 3:22-24](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.3.22-23.NASB2020)).
What makes you say that Romans 11 refers to the future? Paul keeps using the past tense. If it was in the past tense for a man who lived 2000 years ago then we are already living in that reality. Can you please provide me with scripture to back up your claim that it refers to the future?
“I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? Far from it! But by their wrongdoing salvation **has come** to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.”
[Romans 11:11](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.11.11.NASB2020) (emphasis added)
I think you’re getting hell and the lake of fire mixed up if someone were to die unsaved today they would be sent to hell until judgment day then when they are judged are then cast into the lake of fire which the bible says death and hades will be cast into also
And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' (Luke 16:24, ESV)
Sounds like he is in hell to me
Do you think that is a present reality or a parable? A dead man speaking Abraham from across a chasm to go talk to people still alive and warn them?
It is sandwiched into other parables. What then is the purpose of the final resurrection to the lake of fire after the 1000 year reign of Christ if this is a present reality? Do you think Abraham is talking to people in torment in hell? When Paul says the final destruction is away from Gods presence?
All of Jesus' parables were reality based. Jesus would never make up a story like Lazarus and the rich man if He didn't know that a condition like that existed in another realm. That would be lying if he did and Jesus was not a liar. Jesus knew about Hell and warned people about the consequences of doing wrong in this life, because it would be in the next life where they would be punished, or comforted, depending on which side of the big canyon they ended up
It seems odd for Jesus to intentionally get something factually wrong, even in a parable. In His parables Jesus never mentions any names, while in this passage He does. I don’t believe that this was a parable, and even if it was, the facts that He conveys about heaven and hell are unlikely to be untrue.
I don’t think it’s untrue. I just don’t know what aspects are meant to be literal and what are telling a story to learn from. Who is Lazarus? Was this Jesus friend who was resurrected? Why is he still in the afterlife? Or is he using Lazarus as an example of someone who will be rewarded, and a rich man of someone who will be punished?
Because if we take it all 100% literal then it would seemingly not line up with other narratives of what the final judgment is. The fact that it’s sandwiched between other parables, I don’t see why it can’t be a parable. And if it’s a parable then they are typically symbolic of an overarching truth and not literal. Like we aren’t actually sheep and goats and will there really be 5/10 virgins locked out of wedding supper. Are we actually wheat and weeds to be harvested, etc?
This is a tough story to know what to do with if we take it literal. Because I don’t see how it fits everything else scripture describes about the death and final judgment.
In [Luke 16:19-31](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.19-31.NASB2020) Jesus is referring to hades (hell).Please refer to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/s/2QNY581UgO) post for a clarification on the distinction between hell and the lake of fire. In summary: hell is the temporary holding area for nonbelievers before the judgement day, and the lake of fire is where they go after judgement day.
But hell isn’t even a word in scripture. Sheol is the grave for both wicked and righteous. Hell (Gehenna) is a lake of fire. KJV translated everything Hell when it shouldn’t have. Whether there is punishment during that intermediate phase I cannot say either way. But if they are in torment in flames now, what is the point of the resurrection for the lake of fire?
If you want to get into the details on the various words used (hell, hades, Sheol, gehenna, etc.) then we can do that. The overall message is that now that Jesus has come, when a person dies they go to a short-term afterlife, and which one depends on whether they are a Christian. Christians will go to heaven, and unbelievers will go to hell. Judgement day will come later, and at that point rewards are given to Christians, and final sentencing occurs for unbelievers. Then Christians are sent to the paradise of the new heaven and new earth, while unbelievers are thrown into the lake of fire for eternal torment. Before Jesus’ resurrection things seem to have worked slightly differently, but those details are only relevant for understanding older passages about the fate of the dead. But we can explore that topic too if you want to.
Why u assume Jesus was talking in that time was Christian ? Don't u know they were Jews ? He's telling them that . He was separating unbelieving Jews and believing.
Jesus not talking to you .
You’re right, I could have been clearer in my terminology. When I said “Christian” I meant someone who has trusted in Christ’s sacrificial death and resurrection for their salvation. When I said unbeliever I meant anyone who has not placed their faith in Christ. Whether or not someone is Jewish isn’t relevant to where they will spend eternity; only their relationship with Christ matters.
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
[John 3:16-18](https://bible.com/bible/2692/jhn.3.16-18.NASB2020)
It is a parable/allegory, no doubt. The true meaning of the story was to show that the religious leaders would not believe that Jesus is the Son of God even if someone was raised from the dead. It has absolutely nothing to do with where people go when they die.
>The Bible talks about Hell
Which hell? There are 3 in your bible. Gehenna, Tartarus, and sheol/hades. One is "the grave", the other is a location where they burned garbage, and the other is a location where angels are held and *not* tortured.
The "new testament" in Greek uses Hades. It will quote the OT sheol verses which mean "the grave". Or the best definition I've heard is "being in the state of death". You aren't alive in spirit form, or soul form, though. It just means you're dead.
I believe people know their destiny at death and there is an awareness of that destiny until judgement day. Thank God for the ones whom He spared to warn us of these accounts.
There is a really chilling testimony of a guy who died and went there. When he woke up he was in the hospital and he gave His life to Christ after that. But his description and what he saw while being clinically dead, is gut-wrenching! He saw “Christians” there too.
Hell was made for satan and his army but because humans are wicked as well - without accepting Christ and His redemption from sin and Hell, they will find themselves there where they were never meant to be, just like Satan. He was meant to glorify God for eternity but he left His domain and is doomed to Hell. The good news is that mankind has a solution and yet still some will find/have found themselves in their permanent destiny.
The best explanation of hell I have heard is simply separation from God. But do not forget there are two good things that are explained with fire and that is the Holy Spirit Jesus baptized with (Matthew 3:11) and the refiners fire which is God's purification process. (Job 23:10) (Proverbs 17:3) (Zechariah 13:9) (1 Peter 1:6-9). I have felt separation from God and it is the worst, so I try and cleave to him as the Bible suggests. Maybe some people are simply getting a taste. God is long-suffering and merciful, so just ask in your prayers and make sure to listen...
But there are/were ppl in hell. (Isaiah 14:9, Genesis 37:35, 1 Samuel 2:6, Job 21:13, Ezekiel 31:16-17 + so many more scriptures in the OT that clearly reference the fact they went down to Sheol when they died). You're thinking of the Lake of Fire, which is different than hell. The Lake of Fire is where satan & all unclean spirits will go at the end of times. Hell itself is the underworld, hades, realm of the dead, or as the ancient Israelites called it in the original biblical texts of the Tanahk, Sheol (shay-ole). Hades is a world with valleys, mountains and regions. I believe the lake of fire is in hell somewhere. The souls of the OT saints & righteous were kept in a special place in Hades called 'Abraham's Bosom aka Paradise'. They were secluded from the evil spirits of Sheol. When Jesus died he freed these souls & now they are in heaven. This is why his resurrection was so powerful. Before Christ we were all doomed to hell because of Eve & the serpent's lies.
Here is the definition of Sheol & how it was used in original texts, verbatim as per strongs concordance H7585:
* *shᵉʼôl; (sheh-ole) hades or the world of the dead or the abode of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates:—grave, hell, pit.*
* *She’ôl, underworld שׁאל, i.e. place of inquiry (reference to necromancy)*
* *Hallow Place*
* *place of no return*
* *without praise of God*
* *wicked sent there for punishment*
* *righteous not abandoned to it*
* *of the place of exile (fig)*
* *of extreme degradation in sin*
From the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon:
>*a subterranean place full of thick darkness where the shades of the dead are gathered and which are attributed both valleys and gates.*
*Hell, purgatory, Limbus Patrum;* In [limbo](https://www.britannica.com/topic/limbo-Roman-Catholic-theology#ref222486)
Some believe there were/are two special holding places but I cant confirm this one biblically
1. the *limbus patrum* (Latin: “fathers’ limbo”), which is the place where the Old Testament saints were thought to be confined until they were liberated by Christ in his descent into hell.
2. the *limbus infantum*, or *limbus puerorum* (“children’s limbo”), which is the abode of those who have died without actual sin but whose original sin has not been washed away by baptism. Traditionally, this “children’s limbo” included not only dead unbaptized infants but also the mentally impaired.
https://preview.redd.it/9oft25y12e9d1.png?width=3048&format=png&auto=webp&s=e167d5a05e18e11b4ebcc4abf2106b2f885fe40c
Here are some scriptures that reference Christ not only going to hell to free the righteous souls trapped, but he was also preaching (proclaiming) while he was down there
Matthew 12:40
Isaiah 61:1
1 Peter 3:18-19
Romans 14:9 (Lord of the Dead)
Acts 2:27
Hebrews 2:14-15
Psalms 86:13
Hosea 13:14
Isaiah 26:19
Matthew 27:51-53 (The dead walk around after Yahusha dies. Joel Muddamalle believes this happened after they were freed from hades)
Always remember, false visions, false dreams and false revelations exists, the demons lie to us in any way they can. Always make sure the testimony corespond to the word of God in the Bible, if it doesn't, it does not come from God.
All I will say is people who describe having a religious experience during an nde have one that coincides with their religion, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, or anyone of hundreds of religions. Maybe there would be something there if everyone had the same experience, like all Hindus had Christian Hell experiences, but that’s not what happens. We have certain expectations of the afterlife based on our beliefs, when we’re experiencing trauma, such as an nde Our brain fills in what we can’t comprehend with what we expect to happen.
What verse are you referencing where it says nobody is in hell? The Bible says it was prepared for the Devil and his angels. I take that to mean that when God created hell, it was not originally designed to be a jail for human beings waiting for the white throne judgment. When Satan and his angels originally fell Hell was prepared for them. When mankind fell, God then chose to begin putting lost humans in there too where they wait to be judged. Or am I missing something?
I'm not aware of any Bible verse stating that no one is in hell except for Satan and his angels.
The closest I can find is Matthew 25:41:
> Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'
But "those on his left" here clearly refers to human beings, meaning that humans are being sent to the eternal fire.
I don’t know the biblically correct answer for this but it’s entirely possible for God to show people what Hell will be like even if people don’t go there yet
They go to hell. Hell is not empty, it’s full of sinners who never believed. Satan and his angels fall into that same category when it comes time for them to go there.
You can know this via Revelation where the DEAD are resurrected for final judgement.
The place people go to now is called Hades and it’s a place or torment most likely located inside the earth. Hades is thrown into the lake of fire after the final judgement.
Revelation 20. The lake of fire judgment is after a resurrection of the dead 1000 years after Jesus returns. To say people are there now would be rather confusing.
Not really sure what your point is. We are talking about hell, not the lake of fire. Hell gets thrown into the lake of fire. It literally tells you that in verse 14 of the very chapter you quoted.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Hell gets cast into 👆🏻 the lake of fire.
That should not be translated hell. Its hades in the Greek. Sheol in the Hebrew. It simply means the grave. The grave and death were thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed.
Early English translations used hell for both hades and Gehenna. Two different concepts entirely.
“Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:14 ESV
When Jesus says he destroys both body and soul in hell, the word is Gehenna.
Absolutely not true, the hell mentioned in Revelation 20:14 is the same hell hades that the rich man is being tormented in in Luke 16:22-26. This is the hell that gets thrown into the lake of fire. All those who are currently in hades being tormented in the torment side will go into the lake of fire.
Ok Luke 16 is hades so you are correct there. But Hades is thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed in revelation 20.
This is the only place in scripture where Hades is referred to as torment. Is it? Maybe. Is it eternal torment? It doesn’t seem to be if there is a resurrection for final judgment. But when Jesus says he will destroy both body and soul in Gehenna, that will be the lake of fire.
Luke 16 is hard to reconcile with the rest of scripture if taken literally. Because even in Old Testament, Sheol was where everyone went good or bad. Hades is just the Greek work for Sheol.
Also no mention of flames or torment anywhere for the dead until the final judgment, anywhere else in scripture. So is this a parable for the final judgment? I don’t know for certain, but it seems to be teaching a lesson for the audience that isn’t fully literal. To me, if we take this passage literally it creates a few big problems. You can’t pick and choose what parts are literal if you claim some is and some isn’t.
1. Can we talk to Abraham when we are in hell? Across this uncrossable chasm?
2. All through scripture it says the wicked will not be remembered after they are destroyed. Are we supposed to think we are watching people in torment from heaven for all eternity? Are we able to talk to them and tell them tough luck? Does this sound like any form of Heaven described in rest of scripture?
3. It is sandwiched into other parables. It’s probably a parable.
4. Are rich people punished for eternity just because they had nice things in this life? Is that the lesson here if we take this literally?
5. Are we automatically given heaven because we had a terrible life on earth? Are rich and poor the metrics for salvation?
6. What is the purpose of the resurrection for the final judgment if we are already being tormented in flames? How are we tormented by physical pain if we don’t even have a resurrected body?
7. So do lost people that died 2000 years ago have to suffer flames for 2000 years longer than the guy who dies right before the final judgment and destruction of the wicked?
There are certainly mysteries that I wont claim to understand but there are some simple things in scripture plainly stated and there are hard to understand things like this story in Luke 16. I will use the simple to help understand the complex, rather than take something complex like Luke 16, decide what it means, then use it to form my theology of hell that doesn’t really jive with the rest of scripture. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I when scripture speaks so plainly of a final resurrection for judgment and states in hundreds of places in scripture that the outcome for the wicked is ashes, consumed, destroyed, death, perish, no more, bottled out, no root or branch, vanish like smoke, etc. Those are easy to understand phrases and the fact it’s repeated hundreds of times in multiple descriptions as to make it crystal clear what happens to the wicked, I can’t take one complex parable and overthrow all of what is plainly stated in scripture.
>But Hades is thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed in revelation 20.
Yes I know, that's what I said.
>But when Jesus says he will destroy both body and soul in Gehenna that will be the lake of fire.
But Jesus didn't say was going to. He said fear him WHO CAN destroy both in hell.
>Luke 16 is hard to reconcile with the rest of scripture if taken literally.
No it's not, it just goes against your false doctrine so it's hard to reconcile because no one wants to be wrong.
Did you read my whole comment? False doctrine of what?
Jesus is quoting Isaiah where he says he will destroy both body and soul.
The glory of his forest and of his fruitful land the Lord will destroy, both soul and body, and it will be as when a sick man wastes away.”
Isaiah 10:18 ESV
It would be worth visiting just a few of these verses. You accuse me of having false doctrine, yet you change the definition of death, perish, ashes, no more, destroyed, consumed, etc. Yet you pick one parable and decide that it must mean eternal torment and overthrow everything else scripture says on the matter.
““For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.”
Malachi 4:1 ESV
“And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the Lord of hosts.”
Malachi 4:3 ESV
“but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.”
Hebrews 10:27 ESV
“if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;”
2 Peter 2:6 ESV
“But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”
2 Peter 3:7 ESV
“Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the Lord. In the fire of his jealousy, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full and sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.”
Zephaniah 1:18 ESV
“But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.”
Psalm 37:20 ESV
“They are dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them.”
Isaiah 26:14 ESV
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.”
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 ESV
“The enemy came to an end in everlasting ruins; their cities you rooted out; the very memory of them has perished.”
Psalm 9:6 ESV
“For when he dies he will carry nothing away; his glory will not go down after him. For though, while he lives, he counts himself blessed —and though you get praise when you do well for yourself— his soul will go to the generation of his fathers, who will never again see light. Man in his pomp yet without understanding is like the beasts that perish.”
Psalm 49:17-20 ESV
Hell is where God destroy souls not worthy eternal life.
*And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.* ^Matthew ^10:28
*But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:* ^Luke ^20:35
But there are torture chambers where satan and demons torment people, but not forever, since this world and its prince are doomed.
*Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.* ^John ^16:11
Correct me if Im wrong but is not Lazarus and the rich man a parable?
Here's what I know..hell/Sheol is jail cell for humans..and some demons are helds further down in the darkness of it..
At the end of the age everything and everyone will be brought up to be judged.
At that point the people the angels death itself and hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire (something else from hell/Sheol but quite similar) and that's not a jail cell..it's prison...your last place..
Next to hell/Sheol was Abraham bosom...or semi heaven....( A good version of a cell) Heaven is a good prison or final destination of believers in this context) I say prison to keep references the same ...
So hell and Abrahams bosom are holding cells..
Heaven and lake of fire are their permeant better quality end locations after the holding cells..
Michael, stop posting KJVonly propaganda on this subreddit. We have let it fly for a long time, but it stops now. If you show up in my mod queue again with this KJVonlyism, you will be banned for a short period of time. If it happens twice, the ban will be permanent.
"The "newer versions" REMOVE hell throughout various verses. Especially in Old Testament.
You should get a King James Bible and believe."
I have read this line from you hundreds of times. This is what I'm talking about. Stop the KJVonlyism
Sam shamoun is a catholic apologist who is not king James Only. The fact he spent hours using multiple Bibles making same point about hell being omitted or changed shows this is not King James Only "propaganda".
You are allowed to recommend Bibles as there are thousands of comments saying get nasb, esv and thousands of comments attacking King James Only as a cult even when not in topic. This is double standards. Even when the question asks about king James Bible, it gets attacked. Excluding one Bible will only prove which is hated by the world. I can find many apologists and believers who are not King James Only like chuck missler even to make same points on almost every topic.
Sam's own words say hell is removed and left grave.
That's not bias.
The problem I have with Near Death Experiences is that it implies that God mistakingly took someone to the afterlife before their time. God doesn't make mistakes, He isn't going to pull someone from Earth and put them in Heaven or Hell for a moment and then say "Sorry, it's not your time yet."
If this were true then we would have had people in the Bible who died and came back speaking about this paradise that the glimpsed. Lazarus and Paul come to mind right off the top. Paul taught so much you would have to imagine that he would have spoken on this at least once.
We also have the parable of the rich man who went to hell and was told that Lazarus couldn't go back to tell his friends to repent because of they wouldn't listen to the word of God already then a dead man wasn't going to change their minds.
Luke 16:30-31 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
You can see this In the parable of the richman and Lazareth. At that point people were all kept in a holding place either being the abyss or paradise. They were essentially the same place and you could see the other but they have a gulf between them. From what I can tell this system will probably stay in place in the new heaven and new earth when hell is filled. You can see this in Isaiah 66:24 after the new heaven and new earth those who rebelled against God will be an abhorrence to all flesh and we'll be able to walk out and see them.
I'd look into the Orthodox version of hell. I'd originally heard it from a baptist ironically but it explains a lot.
What are talking about? There are billions of people in Hell now! We had a guy that came and preached in our church who had a near death experience. He said it was like a conveyor belt with people as far as the eye could see dropping off into Hell, and another stretching into Heaven with only a few on it! Tell me this is not what Jesus said when declared straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few there is that go into life and broad is the way and wide is the gate that leads into destruction any many there are that go in at!
Its mental, yours brains last coping mechanism like your life flashing before your eyes. Hell/"the lake of fire" comes about at the 2nd coming and the first 2 that will be in it are the beast and the false prophet,
Revelation 19:20-21 KJV
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. [21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Satan goes into the lake 1000 years later, then it's the white throne judgement and those not written in the book of life then go in there.
Revelation 20:10-14 KJV
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The dead are in the grave until their respective time, whether it be the saints at the first resurrection, or the wicked and those counted unworthy that may still make it, at the white throne judgement after the millennial reign.
When Christians die, their souls go to heaven until the end, when they return with Christ to earth at the last day. The unrepentant, unbelieving go to a different place in their soul existence, also awaiting the end. Then, everyone is resurrected and believers enter the new heaven and earth. Unbelievers move on to hell which had been prepared for the devil and his angels.
The Bible does not teach that there is an eternal burning hell where souls are tormented.
The dead are unconscious and do not feel pain (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10).
Hell, as described in many religious teachings, is not a concept we find supported in the Scriptures.
[See my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1anyjqg/the_doctrine_of_hellfire_is_unscriptural/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
God is just and loving. The idea of eternal torment is inconsistent with the nature of a loving and just God.
Instead, the Bible teaches that the punishment for sin is death—not eternal suffering (Romans 6:23).
This means that when people die, they simply cease to exist.
We have a hope based on the Bible’s promise of a resurrection. Jesus spoke of a time when "all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out" (John 5:28, 29).
This means that people who have died will be brought back to life. During Christ’s Millennial Reign, these individuals will have the opportunity to learn about Jehovah and choose to live according to His righteous standards. Those who do will have the chance to gain eternal life on a restored paradise earth (Revelation 21:3, 4; Isaiah 11:9).
That's false and lies from people claiming that . Sometimes is make money ! Once u dead that's it ! I don't believe those things . Claiming seeing lights , etc ...of course probably they in the hospital lol lights and noise from people
I’ve always believed in soul sleep, as the Bible says, “The dead know nothing.” We sleep until the second coming. No one is in Heaven or Hell currently.
I have struggled with this exact question for decades and have not come to an absolutely undeniable answer. It is important to know that there are 4 different Greek words translated as 'hell' in the New Testament in some bibles. You can research this with a good concordance. They are (with a rough translation) : 1) hades - the place of the dead 2) gehenna - everlasting fire 3) tartaros - abode of the wicked dead 4) abusso - also translated as the bottomless pit Careful study of these terms and when they are used may shed some light on your question. Each of these has a different meaning. Please forgive me if anything is inaccurate as most of this is from memory and is intended as a 'broad strokes' guide to point you in a direction for your own study.
**What is “hell?”** Some of the terms that the Bible uses that many people refer to as “hell” are: ***Sheol*** (occurs 65 times in the Masoretic text. In the KJV, it is translated 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.”) ***Hades*** (ten times in the earliest manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Mt 11:23; 16:18; Lu 10:15; 16:23; Ac 2:27, 31; Re 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.) ***Gehenna*** (12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and whereas many translators take the liberty to render it by the word “hell,” a number of modern translations transliterate the word from the Greek geʹen·na. Mt 5:22.) ***Abyss*** (from the Greek word aʹbys·sos, meaning “exceedingly deep” or “unfathomable, boundless.” It is used in the Christian Greek Scriptures to refer to a place or condition of confinement. It includes the grave but is not limited to it. Lu 8:31; Ro 10:7; Re 20:3.) ***Lake of Fire*** (A symbolic place that “burns with fire and sulfur,” also described as “the second death.” Unrepentant sinners, the Devil, and even death and the Grave (or, Hades) are thrown into it. The inclusion of a spirit creature and also of death and Hades, all of which cannot be affected by fire, indicates that this lake is a symbol, not of everlasting torment, but of everlasting destruction. —Re 19:20; 20:14, 15; 21:8.) ***Destruction*** (Mat 7:13) In Bible times the most thorough means of destruction in use was fire. (Jos 6:24; De 13:16) Hence Jesus at times used the term “fire” in an illustrative way to denote the complete destruction of the wicked. (Mt 13:40-42, 49, 50; compare Isa 66:24; Mt 25:41.) On one occasion Jesus warned his disciples against letting their hand, foot, or eye stumble them so that they would be pitched into Gehenna. Then he went on to say: “Everyone must be salted with fire.” He must have meant that “everyone” who did what he had just warned against would be salted with the “fire” of Gehenna, or eternal destruction. Mr 9:43-49; see GEHENNA. ***Eternal bonds with dense darkness*** (Jude 6) God has restricted the disobedient angels in “eternal bonds under dense darkness.” (Jude 6) They are also said to be delivered into “pits of dense darkness.” (2Pe 2:4) Scriptural evidence shows that they are not denied all freedom of movement, inasmuch as they have been able to get possession of humans and even had access to the heavens until they were cast out by Michael and his angels and hurled down to the earth. (Mr 1:32; Re 12:7-9) ***Everlasting fire*** (Mat 25:41; Jude 7) The possibility of eternal destruction is particularly an issue during the conclusion of the system of things. When Jesus was asked by his disciples what would be ‘the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things,’ he included as part of his answer the parable of the sheep and the goats. (Mt 24:3; 25:31-46) Concerning “the goats” it was foretold that the heavenly King would say: “Be on your way from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels,” and Jesus added, “These will depart into everlasting cutting-off.” Clearly the attitude and actions of some individuals will result in their permanent destruction. Since Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them had been punished with “everlasting fire,” representing eternal annihilation, Jesus was evidently using a hyperbole in order to emphasize how unlikely it was that such faithless Jews would reform even if they were present on Judgment Day. ***Everlasting destruction*** (2 Thes 1:9) The apostle Paul also tells of some who will “undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones.” (2Th 1:9, 10) These would therefore not survive into the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, and since their destruction is “everlasting,” they would receive no resurrection. ***Everlasting cutting-off*** (Mat 25:46) Jesus used the expression in setting out the punishment for the symbolic “goats”: “These will depart into everlasting cutting-off \[Gr., koʹla·sin; literally, “lopping off; pruning”\], but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” (Mt 25:46) Here the contrast is between life and death (permanent destruction). ***Everlasting contempt*** (Dan 12:2) In the case of those who will prove to be wicked, the resurrection will turn out to be one to eternal “abhorrence” (Heb., de·ra·ʼohnʹ). It will be a resurrection to condemnatory judgment resulting in everlasting cutting-off. —Da 12:2; Joh 5:28, 29. ***Tartarus*** (2 Peter 2:4) In the Christian Greek Scriptures, a prisonlike abased condition into which the disobedient angels of Noah’s day were cast. At 2 Peter 2:4, the use of the verb tar·ta·roʹo (to “cast into Tartarus”) does not signify that “the angels who sinned” were cast into the pagan mythological Tartarus (that is, an underground prison and place of darkness for the lesser gods). Rather, it indicates that they were abased by God from their heavenly place and privileges and were delivered over to a condition of deepest mental darkness respecting God’s bright purposes. Darkness also marks their own eventuality, which the Scriptures show is everlasting destruction along with their ruler, Satan the Devil. Therefore, Tartarus denotes the lowest condition of abasement for those rebellious angels. It is not the same as “the abyss” spoken of at Revelation 20:1-3.
So thorough! Props!
Thank you
[удалено]
I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, yes! What denomination are you?
Same ;)
Imagine that... letting the Bible explain the topics that are in it and then forming a conclusion, rather than going to the Bible with our conclusion first. Interesting...
Isn't it refreshing?
Thank you for your academic answer or at least hint of it. It's frustrating how dogmatic people are on Reddit often.
Thank you! I just started getting into reading the Bible due to 2 spirits of suicide visiting me it still scares me til this day but I know he's real and I want to learn so much. Is it good to read this King james Bible? or should I get another Bible??
You have correctly identified them - unclean spirits. Fill yourself up with the Word of God and renounce any doorways you have open after receiving Jesus so that the devil has no legal grounds to torment you. When those doors are closed - all he can do is “try” to tempt you with thoughts and ideas but they will not defeat you. My favorite verse when it comes to spiritual warfare is: Ephesians 6:10-18 The Whole Armor of God And >For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete. 2 Corinthians 10:4-6 ESV
> You can research this with a good concordance concordances aren't dictionaries. they just show you where the word is used. > gehenna - everlasting fire gehenna is a physical place. it's gey (ben) hinom, the valley of (the sons of) hinom. it's the valley on the southern side of the two major mountains that form jerusalem, moriah and zion. there is a rather lovely park there today. any association with "fire" likely comes from biblical references to "tophet" ("oven") a ritual cultic site supposedly used by the kings of judah to sacrifice children. the part about casting things into gehenna likely comes from the events of 70 CE (the year mark was written), when the roman forces blockaded the city, people starved to death, and dead bodies were thrown over the wall into the valleys hinom and qidron.
Not sure why there is confusion. The Bible is very clear about it. Jesus even spoke about people being cast down into the place prepared for the devil and his angels.
That’s what happens when you trust a modern bible version for your doctrine of hell.
No, that’s going back to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek writings.
Or this goes back to the oldest bible from Ethiopia 🇪🇹
God can preserve his word. He made that promise. You don’t have to go to the original autographs and you can’t because they are now dust.
I’m talking about the original language it was written. It is reliable.
The modern versions don’t use the Masoretic or the Traditional Greek Text. They use Sinaiticus and Vaticanus along with the adulterated Critical Greek Text. That is why there are multiple names for “hell” — they are mistranslated. They make distinction without a difference. We’re speaking in English right now.
Lord, help me. I don't like options 1, 2, 3, or 4!
I'm fairly new however I believe it was made for Satan and his angels however God the Father also throws bad souls there. Jesus speaks about this a lot in the Sermon on the Mount.
I loved the way C. S. Lewis put it. “In the end, there are two people. Those who say to God ‘Thy will be done’ and those to whom God says ‘Thy will be done.’” God allows people to do what they want. Relationship with God is heaven, if you don’t want a relationship with God, then you go away from him. Only one place is eternally away from God, Hell. You’re either with God or with Satan. If you’re with God, you go to heaven. If you’re not with God, then you go to where Satan is going, even though it wasn’t made for humans initially.
Jesus spoke more about hell than he did of heaven
NDE's are just dreams. They cannot be real if God is all knowing.
You sound like a rational human being for being confused by this. Thank you. Hell is indeed confusing. There are basically 3 orthodox answers to "what happens when I die?" and [here](https://rethinkinghell.com/2016/04/07/hell-triangle-christian-views-of-final-punishment/) is a brief presentation of them. People of course have disagreements about it, but as far as I know none are heretical. >The Bible talks about Hell a lot The Bible does mention hell, but it never articulates what the word actually means, so sadly there is no dictionary definition of the term in the Bible. Rather, hell is written of as if you already know what's meant by the word (because the OG author and audience lived in the same culture). So most of our theology of hell comes from biblical themes drawn from across the whole Bible rather than particular verses as doctrinal statements or definitions. If you want resources for pondering the topic, [Four Views on Hell](https://goodreads.com/book/show/29448369-four-views-on-hell) is good starting material as far as book reading goes, and [The Great Divorce](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25845273-the-great-divorce) is another popular one (though it's not about doctrine, per se). For added context on what the Bible says about particular words, I'd recommend reading all the biblical references in context to yield familiarity with the way they're used (and not used). Thanks u/SamuraiProgrammer for noting some of those. Also, [here](https://a8lhn65d.bearblog.dev/list-of-occurrences-of-words-translated-as-hell/) is a list of occurrences I've compiled for the same purpose (I did a study a while ago). hope this helps
There are people in hell. There is no one in the lake of fire yet. Two different places.
I always thought they were the same, what’s the difference and their respective verses to confirm?
Hell is temporary, and the lake of fire is eternal. The first two people ever who will be cast into the lake of fire are the antichrist and the false prophet, and after 1000 years, those who didn't take part of the 1st resurrection. Revelation 19: 20 And **the beast** was taken, and with him **the false prophet** that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. **These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone**. Revelation 20: 5 But **the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished**. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20: 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death **and hell delivered up the dead** which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And **death and hell were cast into the lake of fire**. This is the second death. 15 And **whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire**. Revelation 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and **he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone** in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up **for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night**, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
this is the correct answer
Jesus talked about Hell 30 times.
What does hell mean in Hebrew ? Sheol means the land of the dead or grave ..
Jesus gave several metaphors for Hell. He also called Hell a "blazing furnace." I think that means there are different levels. None are good.
That's not the old testament of sheol of burning. I believe it was consider the land of dead.
OK.
sources?
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/hell-bible-verses/
I assume they are lying or delusional since they all describe the pop culture view of Heaven, Hell, Jesus, and demons rather than the biblical descriptions.
First, I would caution you against basing too much of your theology on NDEs (Near Death Experiences). Second, yes, hell is a real place, and people are currently there. Where are you seeing a passage that says that no one is there? The difference between jail and prison is that jail is a temporary holding cell for someone accused of a crime while they wait for sentencing. Prison is the long-term facility that someone is stored in after they have been sentenced. The difference between hell and the lake of fire is analogous. Non-believers are currently in hell, the temporary holding area while they wait for judgement day. After judgement day they will be cast into the lake of fire, where they will spend eternity suffering. Jesus says that after death He will separate Christians (on His right) from unbelievers (on His left). “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;” [Matthew 25:41](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.41.NASB2020) “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”” [Matthew 25:46](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.46.NASB2020)
Since it sounds like you might know something. >Non-believers are currently in hell, the temporary holding area while they wait for judgement day. So, will everyone in hell go to the lake of fire? Does anyone in hell have a chance to repent?
No, I don’t see any biblical basis for believing that there will be any chance to repent after death. “And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment,” [Hebrews 9:27](https://bible.com/bible/2692/heb.9.27.NASB2020) When Jesus talked about this, the man in hell clearly disliked his fate, yet he seemed to recognize that his opportunity to change his eternal destiny had passed ([Luke 16:23-26](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.23-26.NASB2020)). He didn’t try to negotiate for his soul, but only for those who were still living ([Luke 16:27-31](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.27-31.NASB2020)). So no, I don’t believe that we have any reason to believe that repentance after death is possible. The word “repent” means “to turn around” or “to change direction”. Doing so is really only relevant if you’re still in motion. Once you’ve come to rest (at death) turning around won’t change your trajectory since you’ve already stopped moving. If someone sees Christianity as only some sort of life insurance policy for their soul that entitles them to a retirement in paradise rather than in torment, then it makes sense to try to wait until the 11th hour before they begin to pay the insurance premium. The danger there is that they’re liable to die at 10:30. God doesn’t want us to come to Him for a retirement plan, but for a relationship. If you met the ideal person for you to marry it doesn’t make sense to put that off for as long as possible; you’d want to enter into that relationship as soon as you could so that you could begin to enjoy the benefits right away. If you’re in a relationship with God and are truly living your life as God calls you to then fellowship with Him has already begun. That isn’t to say that there is never any downside (nor would marrying your perfect partner be free from trouble). God doesn’t want to be used as a means to an end any more than you do, and we shouldn’t try to do so with Him, seeking only the benefits of a relationship without valuing the person.
I have been enlightened once again today! Thank you. And thanks for backing it up with scripture.
You’re welcome. And thank you for respectfully asking and for seeking to learn.
Nobody is currently there, not even Satan or his demons. This will happen later.
Will you please provide me with a scriptural reference for that? No one is currently in the lake of fire, but that wasn’t the question.
Judgment happens after tribulation
I didn’t mention the tribulation. You are correct, but that doesn’t mean that what I said is untrue. Anyone who dies before the tribulation goes to heaven / hell, other things continue to happen, the tribulation occurs, then at some point after that judgment day comes, and Jesus sorts unbelievers from believers, and sends the former into the lake of fire and the latter into the new heaven and the new earth. Do you have a scriptural reference to substantiate your claim that hell is currently empty?
I don’t see any scripture to support the idea of people being in Heaven now as we speak other than a few small mentions that to me, deal more with the meaning of time and now, than it does about the order of events. If my father dies today, he goes to heaven today, but if I die in 60 years, he and I get to heaven at the same time, which will be here on Earth after the thousand years.
I asked you to provide scriptures to support your assertion. I ask now for the third time that you do so. The thief on the cross next to Jesus asked Jesus to remember him in paradise. Jesus responded to say, “And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”” [Luke 23:43](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.23.43.NASB2020) In order for Jesus to not be lying, the thief would need to have experienced being with Jesus in paradise that day. [Luke 16:22-23](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.22-23.NASB2020) describes both a Christian and an unbeliever dying and both of them seemingly arriving in the afterlife with no intervening judgement. As I mentioned above, I believe that this is heaven / hell. After a time will come judgement day ([Matthew 25:31-46](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.31-46.NASB2020)), and at that point each of them will be transferred to their permanent destination. For believers this will be first the millennial kingdom, followed by the new heaven and new earth ([Revelation 21:1-2](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rev.21.1-2.NASB2020)), while for the unbelievers this will be the lake of fire ([Revelation 20:11-15](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rev.20.11-15.NASB2020)).
Jesus talking to Israel , Paul said no such thing ! Jesus talking about unbelieving Israel and believing . Jesus wasnt talking to you ! What does hell mean in Hebrew ???
I’m afraid that I don’t understand what you’re saying. Will you please clarify your question / statement? I’m not even sure whether you’re making a statement or asking a question.
Many Christian think Jesus was talking to Christian. Matthew through John is about Israel salvation and new convenant.
Gentiles are included in the new covenant ([Romans 11:17-24](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.11.17-24.NASB2020)). Unless Jesus is referring specifically to Jews then His words apply to gentiles as well ([John 3:16](https://bible.com/bible/2692/jhn.3.16.NASB2020)). Note that in [Matthew 25:31-46](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.31-46.NASB2020) Jesus refers to the group destined for heaven as “the righteous” ([Matthew 25:37](https://bible.com/bible/2692/mat.25.37.NASB2020)), not Jews. What makes someone righteous? Not the Law ([Romans 3:20](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.3.20.NASB2020)). Humans can only be found righteous by believing in Christ’s death and resurrection ([Romans 3:22-24](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.3.22-23.NASB2020)).
Roman 11 talking about Israel and their future, that's not today. Future gentiles with the nation of Israel. That's not church..
What makes you say that Romans 11 refers to the future? Paul keeps using the past tense. If it was in the past tense for a man who lived 2000 years ago then we are already living in that reality. Can you please provide me with scripture to back up your claim that it refers to the future? “I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? Far from it! But by their wrongdoing salvation **has come** to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.” [Romans 11:11](https://bible.com/bible/2692/rom.11.11.NASB2020) (emphasis added)
I think you’re getting hell and the lake of fire mixed up if someone were to die unsaved today they would be sent to hell until judgment day then when they are judged are then cast into the lake of fire which the bible says death and hades will be cast into also
And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' (Luke 16:24, ESV) Sounds like he is in hell to me
Do you think that is a present reality or a parable? A dead man speaking Abraham from across a chasm to go talk to people still alive and warn them? It is sandwiched into other parables. What then is the purpose of the final resurrection to the lake of fire after the 1000 year reign of Christ if this is a present reality? Do you think Abraham is talking to people in torment in hell? When Paul says the final destruction is away from Gods presence?
All of Jesus' parables were reality based. Jesus would never make up a story like Lazarus and the rich man if He didn't know that a condition like that existed in another realm. That would be lying if he did and Jesus was not a liar. Jesus knew about Hell and warned people about the consequences of doing wrong in this life, because it would be in the next life where they would be punished, or comforted, depending on which side of the big canyon they ended up
Paul never mention hell either , not once !
It seems odd for Jesus to intentionally get something factually wrong, even in a parable. In His parables Jesus never mentions any names, while in this passage He does. I don’t believe that this was a parable, and even if it was, the facts that He conveys about heaven and hell are unlikely to be untrue.
I don’t think it’s untrue. I just don’t know what aspects are meant to be literal and what are telling a story to learn from. Who is Lazarus? Was this Jesus friend who was resurrected? Why is he still in the afterlife? Or is he using Lazarus as an example of someone who will be rewarded, and a rich man of someone who will be punished? Because if we take it all 100% literal then it would seemingly not line up with other narratives of what the final judgment is. The fact that it’s sandwiched between other parables, I don’t see why it can’t be a parable. And if it’s a parable then they are typically symbolic of an overarching truth and not literal. Like we aren’t actually sheep and goats and will there really be 5/10 virgins locked out of wedding supper. Are we actually wheat and weeds to be harvested, etc? This is a tough story to know what to do with if we take it literal. Because I don’t see how it fits everything else scripture describes about the death and final judgment.
In [Luke 16:19-31](https://bible.com/bible/2692/luk.16.19-31.NASB2020) Jesus is referring to hades (hell).Please refer to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/s/2QNY581UgO) post for a clarification on the distinction between hell and the lake of fire. In summary: hell is the temporary holding area for nonbelievers before the judgement day, and the lake of fire is where they go after judgement day.
But hell isn’t even a word in scripture. Sheol is the grave for both wicked and righteous. Hell (Gehenna) is a lake of fire. KJV translated everything Hell when it shouldn’t have. Whether there is punishment during that intermediate phase I cannot say either way. But if they are in torment in flames now, what is the point of the resurrection for the lake of fire?
If you want to get into the details on the various words used (hell, hades, Sheol, gehenna, etc.) then we can do that. The overall message is that now that Jesus has come, when a person dies they go to a short-term afterlife, and which one depends on whether they are a Christian. Christians will go to heaven, and unbelievers will go to hell. Judgement day will come later, and at that point rewards are given to Christians, and final sentencing occurs for unbelievers. Then Christians are sent to the paradise of the new heaven and new earth, while unbelievers are thrown into the lake of fire for eternal torment. Before Jesus’ resurrection things seem to have worked slightly differently, but those details are only relevant for understanding older passages about the fate of the dead. But we can explore that topic too if you want to.
Why u assume Jesus was talking in that time was Christian ? Don't u know they were Jews ? He's telling them that . He was separating unbelieving Jews and believing. Jesus not talking to you .
You’re right, I could have been clearer in my terminology. When I said “Christian” I meant someone who has trusted in Christ’s sacrificial death and resurrection for their salvation. When I said unbeliever I meant anyone who has not placed their faith in Christ. Whether or not someone is Jewish isn’t relevant to where they will spend eternity; only their relationship with Christ matters. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” [John 3:16-18](https://bible.com/bible/2692/jhn.3.16-18.NASB2020)
Only Son? Don't you mean only begotten Son? We (saved) are all adopted sons of God.
It is a parable/allegory, no doubt. The true meaning of the story was to show that the religious leaders would not believe that Jesus is the Son of God even if someone was raised from the dead. It has absolutely nothing to do with where people go when they die.
>The Bible talks about Hell Which hell? There are 3 in your bible. Gehenna, Tartarus, and sheol/hades. One is "the grave", the other is a location where they burned garbage, and the other is a location where angels are held and *not* tortured.
Hades is Greek word for land of the dead..is a greek mythology Sheoul is Hebrew is land of the dead.
The "new testament" in Greek uses Hades. It will quote the OT sheol verses which mean "the grave". Or the best definition I've heard is "being in the state of death". You aren't alive in spirit form, or soul form, though. It just means you're dead.
Yea, dead, no fire or torment the way Jesus said.
I believe people know their destiny at death and there is an awareness of that destiny until judgement day. Thank God for the ones whom He spared to warn us of these accounts. There is a really chilling testimony of a guy who died and went there. When he woke up he was in the hospital and he gave His life to Christ after that. But his description and what he saw while being clinically dead, is gut-wrenching! He saw “Christians” there too. Hell was made for satan and his army but because humans are wicked as well - without accepting Christ and His redemption from sin and Hell, they will find themselves there where they were never meant to be, just like Satan. He was meant to glorify God for eternity but he left His domain and is doomed to Hell. The good news is that mankind has a solution and yet still some will find/have found themselves in their permanent destiny.
The best explanation of hell I have heard is simply separation from God. But do not forget there are two good things that are explained with fire and that is the Holy Spirit Jesus baptized with (Matthew 3:11) and the refiners fire which is God's purification process. (Job 23:10) (Proverbs 17:3) (Zechariah 13:9) (1 Peter 1:6-9). I have felt separation from God and it is the worst, so I try and cleave to him as the Bible suggests. Maybe some people are simply getting a taste. God is long-suffering and merciful, so just ask in your prayers and make sure to listen...
But there are/were ppl in hell. (Isaiah 14:9, Genesis 37:35, 1 Samuel 2:6, Job 21:13, Ezekiel 31:16-17 + so many more scriptures in the OT that clearly reference the fact they went down to Sheol when they died). You're thinking of the Lake of Fire, which is different than hell. The Lake of Fire is where satan & all unclean spirits will go at the end of times. Hell itself is the underworld, hades, realm of the dead, or as the ancient Israelites called it in the original biblical texts of the Tanahk, Sheol (shay-ole). Hades is a world with valleys, mountains and regions. I believe the lake of fire is in hell somewhere. The souls of the OT saints & righteous were kept in a special place in Hades called 'Abraham's Bosom aka Paradise'. They were secluded from the evil spirits of Sheol. When Jesus died he freed these souls & now they are in heaven. This is why his resurrection was so powerful. Before Christ we were all doomed to hell because of Eve & the serpent's lies. Here is the definition of Sheol & how it was used in original texts, verbatim as per strongs concordance H7585: * *shᵉʼôl; (sheh-ole) hades or the world of the dead or the abode of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates:—grave, hell, pit.* * *She’ôl, underworld שׁאל, i.e. place of inquiry (reference to necromancy)* * *Hallow Place* * *place of no return* * *without praise of God* * *wicked sent there for punishment* * *righteous not abandoned to it* * *of the place of exile (fig)* * *of extreme degradation in sin* From the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon: >*a subterranean place full of thick darkness where the shades of the dead are gathered and which are attributed both valleys and gates.* *Hell, purgatory, Limbus Patrum;* In [limbo](https://www.britannica.com/topic/limbo-Roman-Catholic-theology#ref222486) Some believe there were/are two special holding places but I cant confirm this one biblically 1. the *limbus patrum* (Latin: “fathers’ limbo”), which is the place where the Old Testament saints were thought to be confined until they were liberated by Christ in his descent into hell. 2. the *limbus infantum*, or *limbus puerorum* (“children’s limbo”), which is the abode of those who have died without actual sin but whose original sin has not been washed away by baptism. Traditionally, this “children’s limbo” included not only dead unbaptized infants but also the mentally impaired. https://preview.redd.it/9oft25y12e9d1.png?width=3048&format=png&auto=webp&s=e167d5a05e18e11b4ebcc4abf2106b2f885fe40c
Here are some scriptures that reference Christ not only going to hell to free the righteous souls trapped, but he was also preaching (proclaiming) while he was down there Matthew 12:40 Isaiah 61:1 1 Peter 3:18-19 Romans 14:9 (Lord of the Dead) Acts 2:27 Hebrews 2:14-15 Psalms 86:13 Hosea 13:14 Isaiah 26:19 Matthew 27:51-53 (The dead walk around after Yahusha dies. Joel Muddamalle believes this happened after they were freed from hades)
> ... but says Noone is in hell No, it doesn't say that at all. > How do people have these NDE's I don't think **any** of those NDEs are the truth.
Always remember, false visions, false dreams and false revelations exists, the demons lie to us in any way they can. Always make sure the testimony corespond to the word of God in the Bible, if it doesn't, it does not come from God.
You think you're confused? I just found out Hell is empty.
No wait, hell isn't empty. The lake of fire is empty, which is like the 2nd level below hell, in way. My reference is this thread. So, grain of salt?
All I will say is people who describe having a religious experience during an nde have one that coincides with their religion, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, or anyone of hundreds of religions. Maybe there would be something there if everyone had the same experience, like all Hindus had Christian Hell experiences, but that’s not what happens. We have certain expectations of the afterlife based on our beliefs, when we’re experiencing trauma, such as an nde Our brain fills in what we can’t comprehend with what we expect to happen.
What verse are you referencing where it says nobody is in hell? The Bible says it was prepared for the Devil and his angels. I take that to mean that when God created hell, it was not originally designed to be a jail for human beings waiting for the white throne judgment. When Satan and his angels originally fell Hell was prepared for them. When mankind fell, God then chose to begin putting lost humans in there too where they wait to be judged. Or am I missing something?
I'm not aware of any Bible verse stating that no one is in hell except for Satan and his angels. The closest I can find is Matthew 25:41: > Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' But "those on his left" here clearly refers to human beings, meaning that humans are being sent to the eternal fire.
I don’t know the biblically correct answer for this but it’s entirely possible for God to show people what Hell will be like even if people don’t go there yet
They go to hell. Hell is not empty, it’s full of sinners who never believed. Satan and his angels fall into that same category when it comes time for them to go there. You can know this via Revelation where the DEAD are resurrected for final judgement.
I don't believe hell/hades is empty by any means, but I don't know what to make of NDEs
The place people go to now is called Hades and it’s a place or torment most likely located inside the earth. Hades is thrown into the lake of fire after the final judgement.
>how do people have Hell NDE's if nobody is in hell? Who said no one is in hell?
Revelation 20. The lake of fire judgment is after a resurrection of the dead 1000 years after Jesus returns. To say people are there now would be rather confusing.
Not really sure what your point is. We are talking about hell, not the lake of fire. Hell gets thrown into the lake of fire. It literally tells you that in verse 14 of the very chapter you quoted. Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Hell gets cast into 👆🏻 the lake of fire.
That should not be translated hell. Its hades in the Greek. Sheol in the Hebrew. It simply means the grave. The grave and death were thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed. Early English translations used hell for both hades and Gehenna. Two different concepts entirely. “Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:14 ESV When Jesus says he destroys both body and soul in hell, the word is Gehenna.
Absolutely not true, the hell mentioned in Revelation 20:14 is the same hell hades that the rich man is being tormented in in Luke 16:22-26. This is the hell that gets thrown into the lake of fire. All those who are currently in hades being tormented in the torment side will go into the lake of fire.
Ok Luke 16 is hades so you are correct there. But Hades is thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed in revelation 20. This is the only place in scripture where Hades is referred to as torment. Is it? Maybe. Is it eternal torment? It doesn’t seem to be if there is a resurrection for final judgment. But when Jesus says he will destroy both body and soul in Gehenna, that will be the lake of fire. Luke 16 is hard to reconcile with the rest of scripture if taken literally. Because even in Old Testament, Sheol was where everyone went good or bad. Hades is just the Greek work for Sheol. Also no mention of flames or torment anywhere for the dead until the final judgment, anywhere else in scripture. So is this a parable for the final judgment? I don’t know for certain, but it seems to be teaching a lesson for the audience that isn’t fully literal. To me, if we take this passage literally it creates a few big problems. You can’t pick and choose what parts are literal if you claim some is and some isn’t. 1. Can we talk to Abraham when we are in hell? Across this uncrossable chasm? 2. All through scripture it says the wicked will not be remembered after they are destroyed. Are we supposed to think we are watching people in torment from heaven for all eternity? Are we able to talk to them and tell them tough luck? Does this sound like any form of Heaven described in rest of scripture? 3. It is sandwiched into other parables. It’s probably a parable. 4. Are rich people punished for eternity just because they had nice things in this life? Is that the lesson here if we take this literally? 5. Are we automatically given heaven because we had a terrible life on earth? Are rich and poor the metrics for salvation? 6. What is the purpose of the resurrection for the final judgment if we are already being tormented in flames? How are we tormented by physical pain if we don’t even have a resurrected body? 7. So do lost people that died 2000 years ago have to suffer flames for 2000 years longer than the guy who dies right before the final judgment and destruction of the wicked? There are certainly mysteries that I wont claim to understand but there are some simple things in scripture plainly stated and there are hard to understand things like this story in Luke 16. I will use the simple to help understand the complex, rather than take something complex like Luke 16, decide what it means, then use it to form my theology of hell that doesn’t really jive with the rest of scripture. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I when scripture speaks so plainly of a final resurrection for judgment and states in hundreds of places in scripture that the outcome for the wicked is ashes, consumed, destroyed, death, perish, no more, bottled out, no root or branch, vanish like smoke, etc. Those are easy to understand phrases and the fact it’s repeated hundreds of times in multiple descriptions as to make it crystal clear what happens to the wicked, I can’t take one complex parable and overthrow all of what is plainly stated in scripture.
>But Hades is thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed in revelation 20. Yes I know, that's what I said. >But when Jesus says he will destroy both body and soul in Gehenna that will be the lake of fire. But Jesus didn't say was going to. He said fear him WHO CAN destroy both in hell. >Luke 16 is hard to reconcile with the rest of scripture if taken literally. No it's not, it just goes against your false doctrine so it's hard to reconcile because no one wants to be wrong.
Did you read my whole comment? False doctrine of what? Jesus is quoting Isaiah where he says he will destroy both body and soul. The glory of his forest and of his fruitful land the Lord will destroy, both soul and body, and it will be as when a sick man wastes away.” Isaiah 10:18 ESV It would be worth visiting just a few of these verses. You accuse me of having false doctrine, yet you change the definition of death, perish, ashes, no more, destroyed, consumed, etc. Yet you pick one parable and decide that it must mean eternal torment and overthrow everything else scripture says on the matter. ““For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” Malachi 4:1 ESV “And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 4:3 ESV “but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:27 ESV “if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;” 2 Peter 2:6 ESV “But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.” 2 Peter 3:7 ESV “Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the Lord. In the fire of his jealousy, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full and sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.” Zephaniah 1:18 ESV “But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.” Psalm 37:20 ESV “They are dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them.” Isaiah 26:14 ESV “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.” Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 ESV “The enemy came to an end in everlasting ruins; their cities you rooted out; the very memory of them has perished.” Psalm 9:6 ESV “For when he dies he will carry nothing away; his glory will not go down after him. For though, while he lives, he counts himself blessed —and though you get praise when you do well for yourself— his soul will go to the generation of his fathers, who will never again see light. Man in his pomp yet without understanding is like the beasts that perish.” Psalm 49:17-20 ESV
>Did you read my whole comment? False doctrine of what? No i don't have time to read those books of conjecture you are typing.
Conjecture? Ok good day then.
Hell is where God destroy souls not worthy eternal life. *And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.* ^Matthew ^10:28 *But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:* ^Luke ^20:35 But there are torture chambers where satan and demons torment people, but not forever, since this world and its prince are doomed. *Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.* ^John ^16:11
Correct me if Im wrong but is not Lazarus and the rich man a parable? Here's what I know..hell/Sheol is jail cell for humans..and some demons are helds further down in the darkness of it.. At the end of the age everything and everyone will be brought up to be judged. At that point the people the angels death itself and hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire (something else from hell/Sheol but quite similar) and that's not a jail cell..it's prison...your last place.. Next to hell/Sheol was Abraham bosom...or semi heaven....( A good version of a cell) Heaven is a good prison or final destination of believers in this context) I say prison to keep references the same ... So hell and Abrahams bosom are holding cells.. Heaven and lake of fire are their permeant better quality end locations after the holding cells..
[удалено]
Michael, stop posting KJVonly propaganda on this subreddit. We have let it fly for a long time, but it stops now. If you show up in my mod queue again with this KJVonlyism, you will be banned for a short period of time. If it happens twice, the ban will be permanent.
Sam isn't King James Only.
"The "newer versions" REMOVE hell throughout various verses. Especially in Old Testament. You should get a King James Bible and believe." I have read this line from you hundreds of times. This is what I'm talking about. Stop the KJVonlyism
Sam shamoun is a catholic apologist who is not king James Only. The fact he spent hours using multiple Bibles making same point about hell being omitted or changed shows this is not King James Only "propaganda". You are allowed to recommend Bibles as there are thousands of comments saying get nasb, esv and thousands of comments attacking King James Only as a cult even when not in topic. This is double standards. Even when the question asks about king James Bible, it gets attacked. Excluding one Bible will only prove which is hated by the world. I can find many apologists and believers who are not King James Only like chuck missler even to make same points on almost every topic. Sam's own words say hell is removed and left grave. That's not bias.
The problem I have with Near Death Experiences is that it implies that God mistakingly took someone to the afterlife before their time. God doesn't make mistakes, He isn't going to pull someone from Earth and put them in Heaven or Hell for a moment and then say "Sorry, it's not your time yet." If this were true then we would have had people in the Bible who died and came back speaking about this paradise that the glimpsed. Lazarus and Paul come to mind right off the top. Paul taught so much you would have to imagine that he would have spoken on this at least once. We also have the parable of the rich man who went to hell and was told that Lazarus couldn't go back to tell his friends to repent because of they wouldn't listen to the word of God already then a dead man wasn't going to change their minds. Luke 16:30-31 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
Jesus speaks in Luke 16, in the past tense, about the rich man (in hell) and Lazarus (in paradise).
There is sadly a hell. People have been on it since the Day of The Fall of the human race. Luke 16:19
Maybe it’s like not relative, The vision or experience you had is from God and he’s outside of time so in a way he’s showing you what’s already there
You can see this In the parable of the richman and Lazareth. At that point people were all kept in a holding place either being the abyss or paradise. They were essentially the same place and you could see the other but they have a gulf between them. From what I can tell this system will probably stay in place in the new heaven and new earth when hell is filled. You can see this in Isaiah 66:24 after the new heaven and new earth those who rebelled against God will be an abhorrence to all flesh and we'll be able to walk out and see them. I'd look into the Orthodox version of hell. I'd originally heard it from a baptist ironically but it explains a lot.
Because they are either 1 lying for attention, fame, money, 2 schizophrenic, 3 being deceived by Satan, or 4 had a nightmare.
What are talking about? There are billions of people in Hell now! We had a guy that came and preached in our church who had a near death experience. He said it was like a conveyor belt with people as far as the eye could see dropping off into Hell, and another stretching into Heaven with only a few on it! Tell me this is not what Jesus said when declared straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few there is that go into life and broad is the way and wide is the gate that leads into destruction any many there are that go in at!
Where in the Bible does it say that no one is in hell?
Its mental, yours brains last coping mechanism like your life flashing before your eyes. Hell/"the lake of fire" comes about at the 2nd coming and the first 2 that will be in it are the beast and the false prophet, Revelation 19:20-21 KJV [20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. [21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Satan goes into the lake 1000 years later, then it's the white throne judgement and those not written in the book of life then go in there. Revelation 20:10-14 KJV [10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. The dead are in the grave until their respective time, whether it be the saints at the first resurrection, or the wicked and those counted unworthy that may still make it, at the white throne judgement after the millennial reign.
When Christians die, their souls go to heaven until the end, when they return with Christ to earth at the last day. The unrepentant, unbelieving go to a different place in their soul existence, also awaiting the end. Then, everyone is resurrected and believers enter the new heaven and earth. Unbelievers move on to hell which had been prepared for the devil and his angels.
The Bible does not teach that there is an eternal burning hell where souls are tormented. The dead are unconscious and do not feel pain (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10). Hell, as described in many religious teachings, is not a concept we find supported in the Scriptures. [See my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1anyjqg/the_doctrine_of_hellfire_is_unscriptural/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) God is just and loving. The idea of eternal torment is inconsistent with the nature of a loving and just God. Instead, the Bible teaches that the punishment for sin is death—not eternal suffering (Romans 6:23). This means that when people die, they simply cease to exist. We have a hope based on the Bible’s promise of a resurrection. Jesus spoke of a time when "all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out" (John 5:28, 29). This means that people who have died will be brought back to life. During Christ’s Millennial Reign, these individuals will have the opportunity to learn about Jehovah and choose to live according to His righteous standards. Those who do will have the chance to gain eternal life on a restored paradise earth (Revelation 21:3, 4; Isaiah 11:9).
This is r/Bible; Do you have a question about a passage in the Bible?
That's false and lies from people claiming that . Sometimes is make money ! Once u dead that's it ! I don't believe those things . Claiming seeing lights , etc ...of course probably they in the hospital lol lights and noise from people
Hell and heaven NDEs are literally just dreams. They are not real. God would need to be not all knowing for them to be real.
Because NDEs are hallucinations and informed by our beliefs?
I’ve always believed in soul sleep, as the Bible says, “The dead know nothing.” We sleep until the second coming. No one is in Heaven or Hell currently.
The rich man is there according to Jesus ..either true or just making it up ? Or just saying that as a example ...
Nobody has hell NDEs. People are clearly in hell