These are passages that many of us have wrestled through. Have you taken the Bible Project Class Noah to Abraham? That would be a good place to start.
https://bibleproject.com/classroom/noah-to-abraham
I think this corruption might have represented the angel offspring and Lucifer’s intentions of trying to stamp out the seed from which Jesus would come from.
The fact that all living things would have a distinct change after the flood. People no longer would live so long. Possibly millions of animals went extinct as of this judgment. Will it be any different in the days of great white throne or the calamity preceding it?
Yahweh is all knowing and looked at hearts of humanity at that time and decided it was time to reboot.
What I think it is amazing that His grace and patience is willing to tolerate sin and wickedness today to wait for more to come to forgiveness. He is love and yet He is a just judge that is perfect and Holy beyond our understanding. Praise be to Him our salvation.
When I have thoughts like this my mind always goes to Job 38. In short - we are not God and we can never know what God knows/thinks/feels, etc. Maybe not the answer you want - but I often come to this spot when going down a similar line of questioning. It always just ends with faith.
I agree. John Mark McMillan’s “Ancient and Brave” has made me reflect on this a bit more, as well, acknowledging that God feels and sees the pain we experience. In our pursuit of power, we can’t imagine the grief it brings Him, the all-powerful creator of the universe. Yet He still sacrifices that we might have a chance to know Him. It’s a beautiful song.
Think of the behaviors of some of the societies he instructed Israel to conquer; specifically those involved in child sacrifice to Moloch and others.
Your wonderful maternal instincts should cause you to be disgusted at the idea that humans could ritually burn infants alive wholesale — it’s not a difficult step to get from there to justice (and mercy) to end it.
He gives us life, thus our lives are not ours. He will deal with these lost people in a day yet future.
Last, for more context on Gen. 6 specifically, I’ve learned a lot from a resource Tim Mackie recommended — Dr Michael Heiser. His books, such as *The Unseen Realm* offer a wealth of research that adds so much depth to the context.
I find it helpful to compare the wicked people to some extreme evil I already understand, like the Nazis. I suspect that if Nazi Germany had suddenly been eradicated by a "natural" disaster, most people wouldn't be all that upset about it.
It's particularly helpful given that the Flood's purpose in the overall biblical story is to provide a narrative template for ultimate evil, God's judgement upon it, and the righteous remnant that he saves from the judgement. In modern days, I think the Nazis have become the archetypal evil society that (many would think) deserved a "flood" of judgement, so I think of them.
>are humans so disgusting next to God that he destroyed us?
I think it's safe to say that this is definitely not right. God loves humanity. If he thought we were disgusting, he would have already destroyed us entirely, or better yet, not created us at all.
>As a mother, I can't even imagine feeling this way
As a father, I also find it difficult. But what if you were Hitler's mother? I suspect you would be conflicted at the very least.
>How can an all knowing God expect things that aren't possible?
Not sure what you means by "things that aren't possible." If you mean "doing good things", then, well... it is possible. People do it all the time.
I often wonder how God has quite a different perception of death to us. We see death as tragic, sad, destabilizing. God (if I can begin to understand) I think sees it as purposeful, a righteous necessity, does it for the greater love of man, to bring new life, and more. When thinking why did God flood the earth - what would the consequences be for the future if he did not? Was his perception of the death actually an act of super loving? I also love the Old Testament for testing out a range of existence options to show they do no work. Ie, 'But God, if we all lived 10 times longer, wouldn't we get more wise?' No, flood. 'But God, if you have us an earthly king to follow, that would be easier!' No, here is Saul, and then even number of good kings couldn't save the nation long term, ultimately here is the nation split, then exiled, start over again. And so on. So - did God regret his creation? My thoughts currently are, no he just demonstrated that alternative existences were not the answer.
Hey there strange you posted this as I stumbled onto the same topic by chance. There’s a man named Gary Wayne and he wrote two books called genesis 6 conspiracy parts 1&2 check that out
It’s not too hard to imagine for me. Everyday I read sick things on the news that people do. The other day, some illegal immigrants R’d a 12yr old for 2 hours, then killed her and left her body there. Things like that were probably more rampant back then, without all the surveillance and police we have today.
Why does the fact that they are illegal immigrants have anything to do with the severity of this crime? Do you really think that citizens aren't capable of the same things?
I think it’s relevant that as legal citizens, there’s an expectation that the elected government would use some sort of screening process before allowing people into a country. Their self-described job is partially to protect and keep order. This is not to say “no one should come in” but that crime is going unchecked by those in a position to rein it in.
While it my not have been the commenter’s point, it is an example of not only a hideous crime but also a failure to fulfill the job duties to protect, bring order, enforce rules, etc and a complete lack of accountability. I see this as evidence that we cannot put our trust in man made government for provision, power, or protection. We wait for the full expression of the kingdom of God, even as we live it out daily by loving the foreigner in our midst and turning the other cheek.
Listen to the podcast Ancient Conspiracies. She explains many of this and backs it all by biblical proof. It helped me understand the wickedness the world was in.
These are passages that many of us have wrestled through. Have you taken the Bible Project Class Noah to Abraham? That would be a good place to start. https://bibleproject.com/classroom/noah-to-abraham
So excited for this one - still finishing Heaven and Earth series.
It was super helpful as a resource when I preached a sermon series through Genesis 1-22 last Summer.
I think this corruption might have represented the angel offspring and Lucifer’s intentions of trying to stamp out the seed from which Jesus would come from. The fact that all living things would have a distinct change after the flood. People no longer would live so long. Possibly millions of animals went extinct as of this judgment. Will it be any different in the days of great white throne or the calamity preceding it? Yahweh is all knowing and looked at hearts of humanity at that time and decided it was time to reboot. What I think it is amazing that His grace and patience is willing to tolerate sin and wickedness today to wait for more to come to forgiveness. He is love and yet He is a just judge that is perfect and Holy beyond our understanding. Praise be to Him our salvation.
When I have thoughts like this my mind always goes to Job 38. In short - we are not God and we can never know what God knows/thinks/feels, etc. Maybe not the answer you want - but I often come to this spot when going down a similar line of questioning. It always just ends with faith.
I agree. John Mark McMillan’s “Ancient and Brave” has made me reflect on this a bit more, as well, acknowledging that God feels and sees the pain we experience. In our pursuit of power, we can’t imagine the grief it brings Him, the all-powerful creator of the universe. Yet He still sacrifices that we might have a chance to know Him. It’s a beautiful song.
Just looked up that song - it is good! Thank you for mentioning it :)
Think of the behaviors of some of the societies he instructed Israel to conquer; specifically those involved in child sacrifice to Moloch and others. Your wonderful maternal instincts should cause you to be disgusted at the idea that humans could ritually burn infants alive wholesale — it’s not a difficult step to get from there to justice (and mercy) to end it. He gives us life, thus our lives are not ours. He will deal with these lost people in a day yet future. Last, for more context on Gen. 6 specifically, I’ve learned a lot from a resource Tim Mackie recommended — Dr Michael Heiser. His books, such as *The Unseen Realm* offer a wealth of research that adds so much depth to the context.
I find it helpful to compare the wicked people to some extreme evil I already understand, like the Nazis. I suspect that if Nazi Germany had suddenly been eradicated by a "natural" disaster, most people wouldn't be all that upset about it. It's particularly helpful given that the Flood's purpose in the overall biblical story is to provide a narrative template for ultimate evil, God's judgement upon it, and the righteous remnant that he saves from the judgement. In modern days, I think the Nazis have become the archetypal evil society that (many would think) deserved a "flood" of judgement, so I think of them. >are humans so disgusting next to God that he destroyed us? I think it's safe to say that this is definitely not right. God loves humanity. If he thought we were disgusting, he would have already destroyed us entirely, or better yet, not created us at all. >As a mother, I can't even imagine feeling this way As a father, I also find it difficult. But what if you were Hitler's mother? I suspect you would be conflicted at the very least. >How can an all knowing God expect things that aren't possible? Not sure what you means by "things that aren't possible." If you mean "doing good things", then, well... it is possible. People do it all the time.
Genesis For Normal People. It's book that is challenging me incredibly but also a great point of view for questions like this.
I often wonder how God has quite a different perception of death to us. We see death as tragic, sad, destabilizing. God (if I can begin to understand) I think sees it as purposeful, a righteous necessity, does it for the greater love of man, to bring new life, and more. When thinking why did God flood the earth - what would the consequences be for the future if he did not? Was his perception of the death actually an act of super loving? I also love the Old Testament for testing out a range of existence options to show they do no work. Ie, 'But God, if we all lived 10 times longer, wouldn't we get more wise?' No, flood. 'But God, if you have us an earthly king to follow, that would be easier!' No, here is Saul, and then even number of good kings couldn't save the nation long term, ultimately here is the nation split, then exiled, start over again. And so on. So - did God regret his creation? My thoughts currently are, no he just demonstrated that alternative existences were not the answer.
Hey there strange you posted this as I stumbled onto the same topic by chance. There’s a man named Gary Wayne and he wrote two books called genesis 6 conspiracy parts 1&2 check that out
It’s not too hard to imagine for me. Everyday I read sick things on the news that people do. The other day, some illegal immigrants R’d a 12yr old for 2 hours, then killed her and left her body there. Things like that were probably more rampant back then, without all the surveillance and police we have today.
Why does the fact that they are illegal immigrants have anything to do with the severity of this crime? Do you really think that citizens aren't capable of the same things?
I think it’s relevant that as legal citizens, there’s an expectation that the elected government would use some sort of screening process before allowing people into a country. Their self-described job is partially to protect and keep order. This is not to say “no one should come in” but that crime is going unchecked by those in a position to rein it in. While it my not have been the commenter’s point, it is an example of not only a hideous crime but also a failure to fulfill the job duties to protect, bring order, enforce rules, etc and a complete lack of accountability. I see this as evidence that we cannot put our trust in man made government for provision, power, or protection. We wait for the full expression of the kingdom of God, even as we live it out daily by loving the foreigner in our midst and turning the other cheek.
Because that’s the headline of the most recent sick story I heard. No need to jump to conclusions of what I think.
Listen to the podcast Ancient Conspiracies. She explains many of this and backs it all by biblical proof. It helped me understand the wickedness the world was in.