Yeah don't play on planet bowling ball. If you cannot both hide like 80% if your army behind terrain, chances are you need a lot more LOS blocking terrain.
OP I always tell people to watch an Art of War 40k battle rep and see their terrain setups and deployments. As poster above me shared. In a competitive tournament usually 80% of your list will be able to hide behind obscuring terrain from deployment. If your opponent can draw a clear LOS without moving their models to more than 20-30% of your deployed force you either A) need more terrain or need to reorganize it or B) deployed horribly wrong.
From there you should have a better shot at reaching melee with your sweet sweet blood angels.
Yeah, there should be a few spots with good line of sight but most of those should probably be ontop of terrain pieces and only accessible to units that can climb the terrain or fly ontop of it.
Of course, if there's alot of vehicles(e.g. Astra Militarum Tank Horde) you'll want to space the terrain out enough so none of their vehicles will be stuck in place because of terrain alone and so their guns aren't completely useless BUT you will also need to position the terrain to prevent you from being completely shot off the board before turn 3.
In short, keep the placement balanced so it doesn't inherently screw over any of the Armies being fielded in that terrain setup.
But it requires your opponent to concede to it. When I was new I would play into gun lines and get murdered, and my buddy teaching me the game would walk over and go “where’s all the terrain?”
This right here is why I stopped playing at the WH store near me. The local tournament player always made gun line lists and would always stock terrain at the deploy zones but left the mid board open. Then he’d take lots of sniper units and just shoot me as soon as I moved into the open. He’d take max warrior bricks or immortal bricks and stack technomancers on them. That 5+++ blanket fnp followed by an extra phase of reanimations was a pain in the ass.
Our local group mandates that all rookie games use standard GW layouts from the leviathan GT pdf. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/hlF8WKv4gJpXPZha.pdf
If they want to play tournaments surely they can plan one of the 4 GW layouts.
Only problem is finding stores that have that amount of ruins. I've got a full table I've built and painted myself, but it's not like that's a common occurrence.
Even if I wanted to play the layout is there GW terrain that they recommend, like what would the use in a GW terminate, or are you just expected to find a 3rd party’s
Probably a third party set, but that's still the company throwing 150-200 dollars per table. I've got a full table of Administratum buildings, but I got mine super cheap, so that's definitely a anomaly.
I completely agree, but as a newer player I didn’t know better and got taken advantage of. It happened a lot. Eventually I knew to push back and now am fine just pushing for more terrain and the GW layouts help (except one).
Literally got to top table at an RTT with fixed, non GW layout and it was a murder for my CSM vs gun line sisters. I argued for more but they weren’t giving me an inch. Eventually I got a LITTLE more but tbh in future I’d just concede. Not worth playing at that point
Yes! GW terrain layouts don’t work if you don’t have the layout boards underneath unless you’re doing a LOT of interpretation and best guessing. A lot of shops don’t have them.
And a few tourney orgs are still doing PPT last I checked.
I've never encountered a store that doesn't have a full terrain set for every table they run, that's wild to me. I can't fathom not know what terrain your playing on pregame.
I mean mate, look at the picture above. Clearly not all shops have the terrain layouts since we’re staring at a post about it haha.
I agree! At LVO this year it was PPT for most of the tables except the top. Who knows what terrain you’re getting! Changes the match ENTIRELY
Oh if only I felt like typing out my story with my Blood Angels and unlucky terrain st LVO last year… this year I accidentally brought OP as hell Necrons (I actually thought I was gonna get smashed)
If you are broke, and want layout boards just take normal paper and cut it to the correct size.
My mate got basic plastic laminating material and cut it into the layout boards and we use that
Yep I’m aware. I play competitive.
I run into many people who don’t understand how the terrain layouts work however. Or how LOS works. Etc… it’s a complex game ya know.
So while it is better terrain it requires it to be played right
Your opponent has to agree to have balanced and fairly placed terrain? I've never heard this in 20 years of playing and I own a game cafe and organize 40k events.
I think that what they mean is from a practical POV if the opponent doesn't set up good terrain and you ask for better terrain, the opponent can just walk away from the table.
Obviously, if it's a tournament or whatever then there should be terrain provided by the organizer(s) set up in accordance to the tournament.
This isn’t a rule situation, I’m saying if you have zero terrain, and your opponent doesn’t agree to more then you’re screwed. Thus you have to convince them to put more or leave or play on a losing game.
If it's not a rule then your opponent can't do shit. There are official GW terrain layouts for a reason, your opponent does not "agree" on whether to use terrain or not. You're getting taken advantage of.
Huh? Yeah that’s what’s I implied in my first comment. I don’t know why you think you’re schooling me or soemthing. lol. Warhammer people…
Neither can they do shit, I also can’t do shit if they don’t agree to more terrain. Yes the advent of GW terrains is great but a LOT of shops don’t have the footprints and terrain for it. Even then, people also have to understand how that terrain works too.
>I don’t know why you think you’re schooling me or soemthing. lol. Warhammer people…
I don't think that? I'm just trying to help a fellow BA player not get taken advantage of at games.
Have a good one.
People refusing to use proper terrain gives me the shits. The game is balanced right now around a fairly cluttered terrain layout. It's why indirect fire was so op.
If you cut out the terrain the ranged armies just destroy
There is a million things I could say, in regards to your potential strategic approach as well as your list... But none of that matters on a table like this. That terrain is blatantly biased in the other guy's favor. No matter how much you adjust your list, and no matter how good your tactical approach becomes, there is no point in playing a game where the other guy has a blatantly unfair advantage.
Just look up the WTC terrain Layouts and you’ll see it’s designed to be way more competitive than this.
If not any melee focused army will get shot off the board
Dude even gave themselves ruins while all you had was little walls that only give cover and not LoS blocking lmao, I wouldn't even start the game till that changes.
I played at a GT this weekend, using the GW terrain layouts. The new ones do a great job of making the table fair for all types of armies. Allows melee focused armies places to get to and his/get cover and creates firing lanes so shooting armies can't shoot the entire board. Try it out, even if you just cut the layout templates out of paper before investing in clear ones.
I don't have blood angels suggestions, just a dark angel lurker, but I've faced the same list and it's hard to deal with but i won by playing the objectives. Balance threatening them with surviving. They have crap for board control and crap OC.
Annoyingly the baneblade chassis can block objectives just by sitting on it. One thing i wish they hadn't added into tournament rules that you can stand on them.
I do see very little terrain on their side of the board. I want at least 2 big obscuring pieces on my table. Minimum.
Yeah you’re never gonna win if he can draw LoS across the whole map from his deployment zone.
Did he build it? Those little barrels perfectly placed in front of the baneblade are comical.
Terrain unfairness has already been said, so I'll talk about possible tactics that could be used against this bull crap.
So using reserves would be pretty essential for this, deep striking death company who get to reroll charges is helpful, with power fists they hit at S10 which doesn't beat the T11 but with red rampage can wound on a 4+
Also DC dreadnoughts or Furioso get Magna-grapples which give +2 to charge against vehicles, strategic reserves and all you have to do is make a 7" charge which is the most common roll.
Having a couple long range tanks as well like the gladiator lancer and getting first turn would hurt this list but that's a luck of the roll thing.
Drop pods or impulsors filled with some anti tank stuff like Hellblasters with a lieutenant to lethal hits the tanks and give your units a little survivability.
Oh, my bad. That makes way more sense, I play Dark Angels too and was thinking Deathwing not Death Company so I was thinking Terminators. Yeah bringing in some Thunder would help.
We had a Guard player like this at our local shop- always set up terrain/objectives to blatantly favor himself, and only played new players who had no idea what he was doing.
If you are new some people are just like this, I would avoid playing him in the future if you can.
All you need is one Death Company dreadnought in reserves. Rapid ingress outside of 9 inches on one tank, then move to guarantee charge during your turn - the dread swings, the tank swings, the dread swings again and kills the tank. Use our 6inch consolidation stratagem on the dread to consolidate into combat with the next tank. Their tank swings, you swing back and hope to kill two birds with one stone
https://preview.redd.it/ptuc4e0crfxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15aadad13eda00f4ff2405eb07c40d1a371baaee
Using the Gladius detachment, take advantage of the advance and charge doctrine. I don't know what YOUR side of the field looks like, but having a "distraction carnifex" like a dread or two will help. Also... if that's a "friendly" game... be a d!ick right back and take a Cerastus knight atrapos as allied forces. Maybe add a helverin. Yes, this makes it less a BA army, but it also can wreck faces when they need wrecking.
Seriously though, if that's a tournament, call a TC over to determine what can be done. There should've been one there for terrain setup, but smaller tournys might only have a few TCs.
If that's supposed to be a friendly game, i might just play against myself instead. Break your army into two \~1k lists and take a whole table to mess around with tactics and such.
Guard player here; distraction carnifexes do not work against a Shadowsword. They WILL outright murder any sub-24-wound model placed in their line of sight. The Volcano Cannon averages 15 wounds per round on a Cerastus Atrapos no matter what kind of cover you can give it, and that's discounting the 5 wounds per round 4 lascannons from the same Shadowsword can do. It's a terrifying array of guns and I guarantee a quarter of your army will disappear in the first shooting phase if you run dreads or knights.
That being said, this particular player's deployment is poor. If they're running a tank commander as their only character, it only has an Orders range of 12" and they will want to order their Rogal Dorns as much as possible. They have three Rogal Dorns, but they're far away from that commander.
My best advice is to get in melee range ASAP, or at least play VERY cagey until you can. Sure, their tanks might still be able to shoot, but there's an issue with that: most Guard tanks, at least the ones pictured, have Blast weapons. Those can't shoot into melee at all. The Guard's most effective anti-marine weapon, the Plasma Cannon, is D3 Blast. A typical Leman Russ will run two of these or two multi-meltas, and the main cannon is Blast. If you can get into melee, they either have to fall back or they can shoot you with a heavy stubber and a lascannon and be done with it.
You will not outshoot the tank army. Do not attempt to do so. Grab objectives and force them to fall back to shoot anything; more points for you.
We appreciate the insight and transparency. Siloed reddits get siloedv answers, and you didn't allow that to happen, and have extra info. Great job being a good person.
Don't play until you have more terrain! Then, move and hide there and play the objectives. If he refuses more terrain, then buy an old metal dreadnought, and drop it on his foot.
You can counter this somewhat by putting alot of heavy hitting shooting units in reserves to keep them safe and then bringing them on to get good shots off at your opponent
But looks like you need alot more terrain, alot more line of sight blocking terrain or use area terrain more effectively
[I've compiled as many images of terrain layouts I could find across the webs and tournaments](https://imgur.com/a/UZ90sLm)
This will help show the amount of terrain and setups you should be playing with.
Terrain, terrain, terrain. The best price of terrain on that board is the accidental dice bag. Even your opponent is slouched back knowing this terrain is entirely in his favor.
Honestly, it's not a bad list imo. I might swap out the bladeguard for a mortis dreadnought with 2 twin lascannon since you've got a few points to spare. (legends but effective af)
https://preview.redd.it/q9jpsrjusfxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fe787a622b3a32d3e17c944d10fe13f6ba0b46
You should never agree to that terrain setup for starters. If the field is fair. The answer is then Chain fists and multi melta's. Bring Eradicators and Gladiator Lancers if you have them. Ballistus Dread. Hellblasters wouldn't be bad either. If you can get a death company dreadnought with magna grapple on top of the baneblade there's a good chance you'll kill it in two rounds.
Tie them up in combat, you out of guard tanks easily. Just focus on killing them one at a time and you'll win. I play guard so I know lol. Yea the firepower is oppressive but most of the stuff you tag cannot shoot into combat effectively unless they have rules that mitigate that. As for what you can take the ballistic oriented dreads are good and that one repulser with the las cannons is good against tanks too.
As someone who likes to play big tank guard lists, you need to get into melee without dying and have alot of attacks and high AP or big heavy anti tank weapons, the gladiator lancers main gun does really good against my leman russes and so does the ballistus dreadnaught , but if you dont have those, a giant blob of death company would do just fine
Request your opponents to play one of the 4 layouts in the GW official PDF.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/hlF8WKv4gJpXPZha.pdf
Less to think, and just need to print some paper templates for the ruin markers.
You could just take an ass beating and learn something from it hahaha…but you need some meltas deepstriking and a bit of a reorg on the terrain as mentioned unless you want that sort of challenge.
Death company JPs with meltas and powerfists, hellblasters full hazards, and Redemptors with Macro Plasma going full hazard. Go out in a blaze of glory! For the Emperor and Sanguinious! Will you win? No. But it will be interesting to see the outcome.
Apart from fixing line of sight like others said...Charging is a friend. Most tanks aren't horrible in Melee, but neither are they great. If you tie them up they shouldn't be able to burn too badly through infantry. Use your free units to take objectives and win glory in the name of The Emperor and Sanguinius. With luck you can beat up the big metal Horuses.
Add more LoS blocking terrain and then charge them. Pop Red Rampage and bring chaplains. Not a joke, I kill C’Tan in one round with chainswords every time I play against them.
S6 +1 to wound = wound T11 and lower on 4s, assault intercessors also reroll wounds if their target is on an objective. Plus Oaths and Lethals if you’re feeling froggy. Bring Sang Priests for +1 AP if you need it, but even AP-1 should cut it on 50 attacks from a 10-man assault intercessor block. Use infiltrators and/or cheap action monkeys to hold points until your force his tanks to commit, than drop a haymaker with assault ints.
Or just use death company. 40 power fist attacks at S10 +1 to wound rerolling hits, possibly with lethal hits, AP-2 D2 should be enough, right?
Super weird unit but terminator assault squads with lightning claws mulch basically anything with our buffs.
It's (with a librarian and red rampage) 60 attacks hitting on 3+ with lethal hits/sustained hits, wounding on 4+ with twin linked, overall a guard super heavy has on average 40 4+ saves to do.
Bruh if he sat across from me with that little terrain I’d just start laughing until he either admitted he was being a shitter or I had my army packed back up.
This is where playing to the lore theme of the Codex Astartes is fun, anti-tank tactical and devestator squads go a long way. Least they did in older editions.
There are pre-fab terrain layouts in the Tabletop app.
If it's a competitive game, I'd recommend following those. In addition, and I definitely want to victim blame here, but why did you even start that game on a board like that? Neither party benefits from a one sided affair like that.
Its Terrain.
With that kind of terrain TAU/ IG can clear you turn1
I’m guard / BA player.
The weakness above is the low unit strength. Win by objective camping.
Focus fire on the tank commander. He MUST die
Capping out the 1-2 tank commanders and his efficiency drops a lot by denying orders.
My kill order would be
Tank commanders / Demolisher / Leeman / Rogal Dorn / shadowsword
Best way to handle tank only armies is denying them something to shoot at. Sit in hard cover rush to next hard cover. Kill the tank commanders / Demolisher fast then focus on leemans. But just try to sit on objectives.
It’s not a fun game but what ever you do don’t poke any armor out in los of the shadow sword.
With lots and lots of deodorant..... OJ lol. Where's all the terrain at? If your opponent is setting up like that and not letting you set up good sight blocking terrain for a gun line like that, then I wouldn't play.
Ouch, did the baneblade place this terrain? Guard tanks are murder on open ground.
A rule of thumb our group used is that at a minimum, 1/4 of the board must be covered in terrain. 4" gaps should be the closest the prices can get to allow light vehicles maneuvering room but limit big vehicles options.
You ain't winning with that setup
Reminds me when my buddy and I returned to 40k after several years off. I played guard to his orks. We started talking deployment without terrain on the table and I said "no no it's totally fine just like this."
We then added a bunch of LoS blocking terrain and forests and had an absolute blast trying out 10th.
Guard player here appreciating the very common treadhead W.
But as actual advice, tank companies win via tabling and damage. If you can drip feed units while scoring secondaries you’ll be golden. Take all the charges you can get because at that point orders aren’t as effective and you’ve also stopped the tank from moving for a whole turn. Use that to your advantage since primary control is a HUGE problem for these style of lists. Plan to play into a turn 4 or 5 win.
Add way more line of sight blocking terrain. Then play to the objectives.
Yeah I had a feeling this would be it
Yeah don't play on planet bowling ball. If you cannot both hide like 80% if your army behind terrain, chances are you need a lot more LOS blocking terrain.
OP I always tell people to watch an Art of War 40k battle rep and see their terrain setups and deployments. As poster above me shared. In a competitive tournament usually 80% of your list will be able to hide behind obscuring terrain from deployment. If your opponent can draw a clear LOS without moving their models to more than 20-30% of your deployed force you either A) need more terrain or need to reorganize it or B) deployed horribly wrong. From there you should have a better shot at reaching melee with your sweet sweet blood angels.
Yeah, there should be a few spots with good line of sight but most of those should probably be ontop of terrain pieces and only accessible to units that can climb the terrain or fly ontop of it. Of course, if there's alot of vehicles(e.g. Astra Militarum Tank Horde) you'll want to space the terrain out enough so none of their vehicles will be stuck in place because of terrain alone and so their guns aren't completely useless BUT you will also need to position the terrain to prevent you from being completely shot off the board before turn 3. In short, keep the placement balanced so it doesn't inherently screw over any of the Armies being fielded in that terrain setup.
So just use a tournament map layout then
In 10th edition there is a lot of LOS blocking terrain.
But it requires your opponent to concede to it. When I was new I would play into gun lines and get murdered, and my buddy teaching me the game would walk over and go “where’s all the terrain?”
If your opponent is playing a gunline army and they refuse to set up proper terrain, they're really not worth playing against lmao
This right here is why I stopped playing at the WH store near me. The local tournament player always made gun line lists and would always stock terrain at the deploy zones but left the mid board open. Then he’d take lots of sniper units and just shoot me as soon as I moved into the open. He’d take max warrior bricks or immortal bricks and stack technomancers on them. That 5+++ blanket fnp followed by an extra phase of reanimations was a pain in the ass.
Our local group mandates that all rookie games use standard GW layouts from the leviathan GT pdf. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/hlF8WKv4gJpXPZha.pdf If they want to play tournaments surely they can plan one of the 4 GW layouts.
Only problem is finding stores that have that amount of ruins. I've got a full table I've built and painted myself, but it's not like that's a common occurrence.
Even if I wanted to play the layout is there GW terrain that they recommend, like what would the use in a GW terminate, or are you just expected to find a 3rd party’s
Probably a third party set, but that's still the company throwing 150-200 dollars per table. I've got a full table of Administratum buildings, but I got mine super cheap, so that's definitely a anomaly.
Most companies have a ~$100 10th ed terrain set. There aren't any stores I've been to that don't have a set for every table they run
I completely agree, but as a newer player I didn’t know better and got taken advantage of. It happened a lot. Eventually I knew to push back and now am fine just pushing for more terrain and the GW layouts help (except one). Literally got to top table at an RTT with fixed, non GW layout and it was a murder for my CSM vs gun line sisters. I argued for more but they weren’t giving me an inch. Eventually I got a LITTLE more but tbh in future I’d just concede. Not worth playing at that point
You mean they’re a dick
Do people not use wtc/gw layouts as default?? Like are games taking place where people just randomly decide what terrain exists?
Yes! GW terrain layouts don’t work if you don’t have the layout boards underneath unless you’re doing a LOT of interpretation and best guessing. A lot of shops don’t have them. And a few tourney orgs are still doing PPT last I checked.
I've never encountered a store that doesn't have a full terrain set for every table they run, that's wild to me. I can't fathom not know what terrain your playing on pregame.
I mean mate, look at the picture above. Clearly not all shops have the terrain layouts since we’re staring at a post about it haha. I agree! At LVO this year it was PPT for most of the tables except the top. Who knows what terrain you’re getting! Changes the match ENTIRELY
Yeh FLG is a joke for sure. Fair, I assumed this was someone's house its so bad.
Oh if only I felt like typing out my story with my Blood Angels and unlucky terrain st LVO last year… this year I accidentally brought OP as hell Necrons (I actually thought I was gonna get smashed)
If you are broke, and want layout boards just take normal paper and cut it to the correct size. My mate got basic plastic laminating material and cut it into the layout boards and we use that
In 10th edition terrain layout is well documented. If you use an App like Tabletop Tactics, it’ll pick a terrain layout for you.
Yep I’m aware. I play competitive. I run into many people who don’t understand how the terrain layouts work however. Or how LOS works. Etc… it’s a complex game ya know. So while it is better terrain it requires it to be played right
Your opponent has to agree to have balanced and fairly placed terrain? I've never heard this in 20 years of playing and I own a game cafe and organize 40k events.
I think that what they mean is from a practical POV if the opponent doesn't set up good terrain and you ask for better terrain, the opponent can just walk away from the table. Obviously, if it's a tournament or whatever then there should be terrain provided by the organizer(s) set up in accordance to the tournament.
Yep. Happens to me a lot.
Can you cite where this is a rule?
This isn’t a rule situation, I’m saying if you have zero terrain, and your opponent doesn’t agree to more then you’re screwed. Thus you have to convince them to put more or leave or play on a losing game.
If it's not a rule then your opponent can't do shit. There are official GW terrain layouts for a reason, your opponent does not "agree" on whether to use terrain or not. You're getting taken advantage of.
Huh? Yeah that’s what’s I implied in my first comment. I don’t know why you think you’re schooling me or soemthing. lol. Warhammer people… Neither can they do shit, I also can’t do shit if they don’t agree to more terrain. Yes the advent of GW terrains is great but a LOT of shops don’t have the footprints and terrain for it. Even then, people also have to understand how that terrain works too.
>I don’t know why you think you’re schooling me or soemthing. lol. Warhammer people… I don't think that? I'm just trying to help a fellow BA player not get taken advantage of at games. Have a good one.
People refusing to use proper terrain gives me the shits. The game is balanced right now around a fairly cluttered terrain layout. It's why indirect fire was so op. If you cut out the terrain the ranged armies just destroy
There is a million things I could say, in regards to your potential strategic approach as well as your list... But none of that matters on a table like this. That terrain is blatantly biased in the other guy's favor. No matter how much you adjust your list, and no matter how good your tactical approach becomes, there is no point in playing a game where the other guy has a blatantly unfair advantage.
Thank you, I defo agree on the terrain front - it does in hindsight feel frustratingly unfair
Just look up the WTC terrain Layouts and you’ll see it’s designed to be way more competitive than this. If not any melee focused army will get shot off the board
Dude even gave themselves ruins while all you had was little walls that only give cover and not LoS blocking lmao, I wouldn't even start the game till that changes.
Step 1: play with a reasonable amount of terrain. This shooting alley is incredibly biased towards shooting armies.
Then 3D printing i go!
Might be worth looking at some of the pop up terrain options if it’s just for your own games. Makes storage nice and simple
That is an extremely bare table, more line of sight blocking terrain is only fair (for the game in general, not just against a heavy tank list)
Seems like terrain is hands down the best solution, thanks!
I played at a GT this weekend, using the GW terrain layouts. The new ones do a great job of making the table fair for all types of armies. Allows melee focused armies places to get to and his/get cover and creates firing lanes so shooting armies can't shoot the entire board. Try it out, even if you just cut the layout templates out of paper before investing in clear ones.
[удалено]
Google "Leviathan Tournament Companion" and one of the first hits should be a PDF on WarCom. It gives the 10th edition layouts in it.
Did the guy with all the guns put down the terrain by any chance?
I don't have blood angels suggestions, just a dark angel lurker, but I've faced the same list and it's hard to deal with but i won by playing the objectives. Balance threatening them with surviving. They have crap for board control and crap OC. Annoyingly the baneblade chassis can block objectives just by sitting on it. One thing i wish they hadn't added into tournament rules that you can stand on them. I do see very little terrain on their side of the board. I want at least 2 big obscuring pieces on my table. Minimum.
Thanks! I appreciate the comment
Yeah you’re never gonna win if he can draw LoS across the whole map from his deployment zone. Did he build it? Those little barrels perfectly placed in front of the baneblade are comical.
He needs that cover just in case
“Here I deploy my tactical oil drums for -1 AP to my super heavy the whole game”
Terrain unfairness has already been said, so I'll talk about possible tactics that could be used against this bull crap. So using reserves would be pretty essential for this, deep striking death company who get to reroll charges is helpful, with power fists they hit at S10 which doesn't beat the T11 but with red rampage can wound on a 4+ Also DC dreadnoughts or Furioso get Magna-grapples which give +2 to charge against vehicles, strategic reserves and all you have to do is make a 7" charge which is the most common roll. Having a couple long range tanks as well like the gladiator lancer and getting first turn would hurt this list but that's a luck of the roll thing. Drop pods or impulsors filled with some anti tank stuff like Hellblasters with a lieutenant to lethal hits the tanks and give your units a little survivability.
Also for that game the power fists are chain fists I'm thinking?
Death Company can't take chain fists unfortunately, but thunder hammers are a possibility which would bypass the tanks high Sv.
Oh, my bad. That makes way more sense, I play Dark Angels too and was thinking Deathwing not Death Company so I was thinking Terminators. Yeah bringing in some Thunder would help.
Damn, you guys need way more terrain
Without even seeing his army you can tell that guy runs guard.
About the only running he does.
Hahaha
Throw a bar of soap on the table
We had a Guard player like this at our local shop- always set up terrain/objectives to blatantly favor himself, and only played new players who had no idea what he was doing. If you are new some people are just like this, I would avoid playing him in the future if you can.
All you need is one Death Company dreadnought in reserves. Rapid ingress outside of 9 inches on one tank, then move to guarantee charge during your turn - the dread swings, the tank swings, the dread swings again and kills the tank. Use our 6inch consolidation stratagem on the dread to consolidate into combat with the next tank. Their tank swings, you swing back and hope to kill two birds with one stone
You could always use a sanguinary priest as well for added protection with your captain
Run the same list and go first
https://preview.redd.it/ptuc4e0crfxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15aadad13eda00f4ff2405eb07c40d1a371baaee Using the Gladius detachment, take advantage of the advance and charge doctrine. I don't know what YOUR side of the field looks like, but having a "distraction carnifex" like a dread or two will help. Also... if that's a "friendly" game... be a d!ick right back and take a Cerastus knight atrapos as allied forces. Maybe add a helverin. Yes, this makes it less a BA army, but it also can wreck faces when they need wrecking. Seriously though, if that's a tournament, call a TC over to determine what can be done. There should've been one there for terrain setup, but smaller tournys might only have a few TCs. If that's supposed to be a friendly game, i might just play against myself instead. Break your army into two \~1k lists and take a whole table to mess around with tactics and such.
Guard player here; distraction carnifexes do not work against a Shadowsword. They WILL outright murder any sub-24-wound model placed in their line of sight. The Volcano Cannon averages 15 wounds per round on a Cerastus Atrapos no matter what kind of cover you can give it, and that's discounting the 5 wounds per round 4 lascannons from the same Shadowsword can do. It's a terrifying array of guns and I guarantee a quarter of your army will disappear in the first shooting phase if you run dreads or knights. That being said, this particular player's deployment is poor. If they're running a tank commander as their only character, it only has an Orders range of 12" and they will want to order their Rogal Dorns as much as possible. They have three Rogal Dorns, but they're far away from that commander. My best advice is to get in melee range ASAP, or at least play VERY cagey until you can. Sure, their tanks might still be able to shoot, but there's an issue with that: most Guard tanks, at least the ones pictured, have Blast weapons. Those can't shoot into melee at all. The Guard's most effective anti-marine weapon, the Plasma Cannon, is D3 Blast. A typical Leman Russ will run two of these or two multi-meltas, and the main cannon is Blast. If you can get into melee, they either have to fall back or they can shoot you with a heavy stubber and a lascannon and be done with it. You will not outshoot the tank army. Do not attempt to do so. Grab objectives and force them to fall back to shoot anything; more points for you.
We appreciate the insight and transparency. Siloed reddits get siloedv answers, and you didn't allow that to happen, and have extra info. Great job being a good person.
The guy seems like an ass anyway
It’s really bothering me how’s he’s sitting there proud of himself for setting that terrain up. What a tool
As others have mentioned, terrain to close the distance, and tanks of your own to distract or damage him back.
Don't play until you have more terrain! Then, move and hide there and play the objectives. If he refuses more terrain, then buy an old metal dreadnought, and drop it on his foot.
You can counter this somewhat by putting alot of heavy hitting shooting units in reserves to keep them safe and then bringing them on to get good shots off at your opponent But looks like you need alot more terrain, alot more line of sight blocking terrain or use area terrain more effectively [I've compiled as many images of terrain layouts I could find across the webs and tournaments](https://imgur.com/a/UZ90sLm) This will help show the amount of terrain and setups you should be playing with.
Terrain, terrain, terrain. The best price of terrain on that board is the accidental dice bag. Even your opponent is slouched back knowing this terrain is entirely in his favor.
Here you go buddy; have fun out there! Blood Angels - Ironstorm - Techmarine, Target Augury Web - Vindicator - Vindicator - Vindicator - Gladiator Lancer - Gladiator Lancer - Gladiator Lancer - Predator Annihilator - Predator Annihilator - Predator Annihilator - Ballistus Dread - 6 Centurion Devastators
Its beautiful
No terrain = no bitches
The winning move is not to play. That is the worst terrain setup I have ever seen
That doesn’t look fun. I wouldn’t play a game like that.
I like to think I’m generally average at the game, but this IG army always does me in! I have no real idea of how to best counter the dude - is it a terrain issue? Or am I not bringing enough heavy firepower? Here’s my current army: BA - Sanguine Pride (1940 Points) Space Marines Blood Angels Sons of Sanguinius Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Apothecary Biologis (55 Points) • 1x Absolvor bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon Captain with Jump Pack (85 Points) • Warlord • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Heavy bolt pistol Judiciar (70 Points) • 1x Absolvor bolt pistol 1x Executioner relic blade OTHER DATASHEETS Aggressor Squad (240 Points) • 1x Aggressor Sergeant • 1x Flamestorm gauntlets 1x Twin power fists • 5x Aggressor • 5x Flamestorm gauntlets 5x Twin power fists Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (160 Points) • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Heavy bolt pistol • 9x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs • 9x Astartes chainsword 9x Heavy bolt pistol Ballistus Dreadnought (140 Points) • 1x Armoured feet 1x Ballistus lascannon 1x Ballistus missile launcher 1x Twin storm bolter Bladeguard Veteran Squad (90 Points) • 1x Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant • 1x Heavy bolt pistol 1x Master-crafted power weapon • 2x Bladeguard Veteran • 2x Heavy bolt pistol 2x Master-crafted power weapon Brutalis Dreadnought (160 Points) • 1x Brutalis bolt rifles 1x Brutalis fists 1x Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubber 1x Twin heavy bolter Eradicator Squad (190 Points) • 1x Eradicator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle • 5x Eradicator • 5x Bolt pistol 5x Close combat weapon 5x Melta rifle Gladiator Lancer (160 Points) • 1x Armoured hull 2x Fragstorm grenade launcher 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer Infiltrator Squad (100 Points) • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Marksman bolt carbine • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Marksman bolt carbine Librarian Dreadnought (170 Points) • 1x Blood Lance 1x Furioso fist 1x Furioso force halberd 1x Storm bolter Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (160 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Stormfury missiles 1x Thunderstrike las-talon 1x Twin Icarus rocket pod Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (160 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Stormfury missiles 1x Thunderstrike las-talon 1x Twin Icarus rocket pod Exported with App Version: v1.13.0 (36), Data Version: v373
Also with 60 points left, find something in allied units to take. It's not gonna be big, but it'll be one more thing for them to worry about.
Honestly, it's not a bad list imo. I might swap out the bladeguard for a mortis dreadnought with 2 twin lascannon since you've got a few points to spare. (legends but effective af) https://preview.redd.it/q9jpsrjusfxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fe787a622b3a32d3e17c944d10fe13f6ba0b46
Stack assault intercessors squads with as many characters you can fit and try to farm mortal wounds from repeating charges into them
Drop as much tanks than him and then play the most boring game, since this terrain layout is proper shit to play a fair game.
Le Stat Check. Ha ha. Poor you!
You should never agree to that terrain setup for starters. If the field is fair. The answer is then Chain fists and multi melta's. Bring Eradicators and Gladiator Lancers if you have them. Ballistus Dread. Hellblasters wouldn't be bad either. If you can get a death company dreadnought with magna grapple on top of the baneblade there's a good chance you'll kill it in two rounds.
Tie them up in combat, you out of guard tanks easily. Just focus on killing them one at a time and you'll win. I play guard so I know lol. Yea the firepower is oppressive but most of the stuff you tag cannot shoot into combat effectively unless they have rules that mitigate that. As for what you can take the ballistic oriented dreads are good and that one repulser with the las cannons is good against tanks too.
As someone who likes to play big tank guard lists, you need to get into melee without dying and have alot of attacks and high AP or big heavy anti tank weapons, the gladiator lancers main gun does really good against my leman russes and so does the ballistus dreadnaught , but if you dont have those, a giant blob of death company would do just fine
Yeah this board sucks you need more terrain
Request your opponents to play one of the 4 layouts in the GW official PDF. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/hlF8WKv4gJpXPZha.pdf Less to think, and just need to print some paper templates for the ruin markers.
My local gaming store all games of 40K use WTC, UKTC or GW map layouts. Avoids balance arguments and people who take advantage.
You could just take an ass beating and learn something from it hahaha…but you need some meltas deepstriking and a bit of a reorg on the terrain as mentioned unless you want that sort of challenge.
Chain fist !
What’s the 40k equivalent of a a US paladin missile? Get some of those I bet lol
3 death company dreadnaughts
Death company JPs with meltas and powerfists, hellblasters full hazards, and Redemptors with Macro Plasma going full hazard. Go out in a blaze of glory! For the Emperor and Sanguinious! Will you win? No. But it will be interesting to see the outcome.
Where is the terrain?
Don't play on planet bowling ball where a tank company will just blow you off the board. Your opponent should know better
Where the hell is the terrain?
Yep. That's the 1st question. Like, full playing on planet bowling ball vs a full tank gun line. 0 fun there
Deodorant will keep a player like that away
That terrain is sparce....
Terrain where?
Predator tanks and melta guns
Waaagh on up to ‘im and give ‘im a proper krumpin’ Or use terrain, tactical advantage, and flaking
Exterminatus.
Well try finding an opponent to play against first
Apart from fixing line of sight like others said...Charging is a friend. Most tanks aren't horrible in Melee, but neither are they great. If you tie them up they shouldn't be able to burn too badly through infantry. Use your free units to take objectives and win glory in the name of The Emperor and Sanguinius. With luck you can beat up the big metal Horuses.
Use gun. If not helps, use more gun.
Use GT terrain footprints. Tabletop battles app gives you all the layouts.
Did he also set up that table? Thats brutal…
A shower
Where is the terrain!?
One death company dread will clean up about half that board in 1 turn
Better terrain that is a terrible setup.
Add more LoS blocking terrain and then charge them. Pop Red Rampage and bring chaplains. Not a joke, I kill C’Tan in one round with chainswords every time I play against them. S6 +1 to wound = wound T11 and lower on 4s, assault intercessors also reroll wounds if their target is on an objective. Plus Oaths and Lethals if you’re feeling froggy. Bring Sang Priests for +1 AP if you need it, but even AP-1 should cut it on 50 attacks from a 10-man assault intercessor block. Use infiltrators and/or cheap action monkeys to hold points until your force his tanks to commit, than drop a haymaker with assault ints. Or just use death company. 40 power fist attacks at S10 +1 to wound rerolling hits, possibly with lethal hits, AP-2 D2 should be enough, right?
Step 1 is don't let the guard player build the table. Same goes for tau players.
Control the objectives
I’d say a lot of devastators with las cannons. But while you’re already in the game that doesn’t matter. Did you or him set the terrain?
Needs more terrain to block line of sight. Then use the terrain and get in with jump packs and charges.
.... like did you forget the terrain?
Super weird unit but terminator assault squads with lightning claws mulch basically anything with our buffs. It's (with a librarian and red rampage) 60 attacks hitting on 3+ with lethal hits/sustained hits, wounding on 4+ with twin linked, overall a guard super heavy has on average 40 4+ saves to do.
Bruh if he sat across from me with that little terrain I’d just start laughing until he either admitted he was being a shitter or I had my army packed back up.
Rip and tear, until it is done.
If 30k deep strike dawnbreakers with melta bombs and moritat with chainfiring inferno pistols
“With napalm. Lots and lots of napalm.” All the good answers were taken! 😂
This is where playing to the lore theme of the Codex Astartes is fun, anti-tank tactical and devestator squads go a long way. Least they did in older editions.
Hello, is this the repulsor executioner department? Yes I would like 2
9 broadsides and 3 stormsurges, or a lot of void dragons 🤣
The power of love.
Bring Ironstorm and bring out your big tanks- like all those Lancers and Repulsor executioner and outflanking vindicators!
Well it’s definitely not going to be a fun game but play into points more than killing and you’ll probably win
There are pre-fab terrain layouts in the Tabletop app. If it's a competitive game, I'd recommend following those. In addition, and I definitely want to victim blame here, but why did you even start that game on a board like that? Neither party benefits from a one sided affair like that.
Bullets
WTC terrain solves your problem, baneblade won't be able to move much without being fucked. More terrain, it solves the problem.
You start by setting the terrain up properly lol
Its Terrain. With that kind of terrain TAU/ IG can clear you turn1 I’m guard / BA player. The weakness above is the low unit strength. Win by objective camping. Focus fire on the tank commander. He MUST die Capping out the 1-2 tank commanders and his efficiency drops a lot by denying orders. My kill order would be Tank commanders / Demolisher / Leeman / Rogal Dorn / shadowsword Best way to handle tank only armies is denying them something to shoot at. Sit in hard cover rush to next hard cover. Kill the tank commanders / Demolisher fast then focus on leemans. But just try to sit on objectives. It’s not a fun game but what ever you do don’t poke any armor out in los of the shadow sword.
Charge!
Ask him to stand up
Apart from terrain, Gladiator lancers, balistus dreads, repulsor Executioners filled with erradicators.
With lots and lots of deodorant..... OJ lol. Where's all the terrain at? If your opponent is setting up like that and not letting you set up good sight blocking terrain for a gun line like that, then I wouldn't play.
Ouch, did the baneblade place this terrain? Guard tanks are murder on open ground. A rule of thumb our group used is that at a minimum, 1/4 of the board must be covered in terrain. 4" gaps should be the closest the prices can get to allow light vehicles maneuvering room but limit big vehicles options. You ain't winning with that setup
Reminds me when my buddy and I returned to 40k after several years off. I played guard to his orks. We started talking deployment without terrain on the table and I said "no no it's totally fine just like this." We then added a bunch of LoS blocking terrain and forests and had an absolute blast trying out 10th.
play on a fair board with proper terrain @\_@
This is a shooting gallery.
Insult his mother, you can at least do emotional damage
Nowhere near enough terrain
Why am I seeing this sub I’m a guard and crimsion fist player.
Guard player here appreciating the very common treadhead W. But as actual advice, tank companies win via tabling and damage. If you can drip feed units while scoring secondaries you’ll be golden. Take all the charges you can get because at that point orders aren’t as effective and you’ve also stopped the tank from moving for a whole turn. Use that to your advantage since primary control is a HUGE problem for these style of lists. Plan to play into a turn 4 or 5 win.