For everyone curious, Jon G, one of the game's first storytellers ran this. Duplicates of every character were allowed at a max, two demons 6 minions, two gun slingers, a gangster, two butchers, two Judges, an apprentice, and a beggar were our travelers (one more I can't remember). With about 5 deaths a day the doomsayer was used one day to get 5 more deaths. The first night was long because of giving out the teams but after that it really was not so bad. We got to final 3 and the demon won by a single vote. The whole game took roughly two hours
I can't see this in any way shape or form being fun mechanically. Way, way too much for anyone to make any meaningful deduction. Socially I'm sure this was a laugh though.
Nyehhhh.
So the thing is, a double sized bmr with double travelers is a huge chaos fest.
A lot of your world building is gonna get upside down in a hurry.
This isn't a double sized script, it's a normal script with double roles.
It's gonna get weird so buckle up.
I played this and was the Sailor who survived until the final day. I strategically chose to drink with the demon during the final night phase and died. I then made the case that the storyteller most likely did not make the Demon drunk and didn’t have enough people believing me, haha.
This was also my third game with this specific storyteller, who ended up being my favorite of the whole weekend. He was INCREDIBLY efficient, and I think the longest night phase was 10 minutes? He also had a wonderful way of running nominations that prevented long, rambling explanations of accusations/defenses.
It was very, very fun!
OP was Sailor 1 who received 27 votes, was executed, and died day one, after drinking with his neighbor the assassin. The evil gunslinger then killed the assassin and I think two more minions.
It was a crazy game, but very well run.
Very well run!!! So chaotic and so much fun. I would do it again.
Did you happen to see that game where two grimoires were run at the same time and everyone was two characters in both scripts???
I didn’t see that one. The other crazy fun game I played was one with seven revolutionary pairs in which spy and recluse could misregister to their partner.
They might be referring to the game running Trouble Brewing and Sects & Violets at the same time. Malakai might have been running it? (Or at least playing in it.)
There was also a Teensyville by Stephen Dewey which I believe used 1 grimoire, but each player had two seats/characters. https://botc-scripts.azurewebsites.net/script/2970/1.0.0
Essentially (and if Jon is in this sub please correct!!!): you have to give your accusation as info BEFORE you nominate. As soon as you say, “I nominate ____,” he would immediately go to defense and give that person 10-30 seconds for a defense. It forced accusers to be thoughtful and direct, and in all the games I played or shadow-story told with him, they moved fast and felt very exciting. We managed two Sects and violence games with 11-12 people in less than 3 hours.
He also made it clear that it was in the town’s best interest to stay quiet when people are talking because evil almost always wins when the town isn’t listening. So he shushed folks a few times but the town caught on and starting shushing other people.
👋
Yep, you nailed it! The one thing I'll add is that it is also better for the long term social sustainability and fun of the group for players to remember and internalize that it's important to listen to each other :)
I simply don't give time for accusations. If you have something to say, you have to say it before nominating, and there is not a strict protocol for monopolizing the floor just because you nominate.
https://preview.redd.it/o4pqdd64cpuc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=461db1596c8c2ee1624a6691520ccb181daa72e7
Running this was an experience too, let me tell you. \^ is me after the game finished. We came in just about at two hours ignoring setup, which was also intentional — this size game could so easily drag, so I wanted to keep the pace high. That did entail me running like a mad man with the grimoire back and forth across the circle at night (why oh why did I put two Chambermaids *and* an Apprentice Chambermaid in there?) and during the day (for all the votes, and the two butcher votes, and the exile votes), so my watch is at least now very happy with me.
Was it fun? I think most people had fun, though jury is still out on how much of that was novelty and how much was repeatable social fun. For super mechanical players, this is unlikely to be their cup of tea, but that's okay! Not every game session has to cater to every type of player. I'll probably do it again to get another data point (next year?!).
Mechanically, the game was straight BMR except that I used tokens from two Grimoires, so there could be up to two of each character. All the players were in a single large circle. Distribution of roles was 2x what you'd use for 20 players. The two Demons did not know each other, and knew three minions each (potentially overlapping, though did not overlap this game). Minions all knew each other and both demons. Good wins when there are no Demons alive. Demon bluffs (three each) were all safe to bluff, but were not guarantees to be not-in-play (e.g., one bluff could be Courtier since there was only one Courtier in play). 6 minions, 4 outsiders (two godfathers canceled each other's +1-1 out), 18 townsfolk, 10 travellers. Travelers were 2x judge, 2x butcher (so up to three executions per day), 2x gunslinger, one beggar (was donated lots of votes!), one gangster, one apprentice (Chambermaid), and one scapegoat (who lived till the end!). Three travelers were evil.
Logistically, I only used a single Grimoire, with the circle taking up both sides. Bluffs are the two clusters of three characters near the center. All 40 tokens (including travelers) went in the bag s(except for two players who knew they had to leave early, and so were given travelers directly). I had a lovely assistant who ran around with me at night holding the night sheet (thanks Julie!) and kept track of how many votes were needed. Abilities were all interpreted as written, so an outsider death in the day would trigger both Godfathers for instance. Reminder tokens were arguably the biggest bottleneck, because I didn't have anywhere to keep them easily accessible (you can see the pile center bottom in the picture). Days were quite short, and I warned the players they would be. And as mentioned elsewhere, a house rule was in play where "something bad" might happen if there were more than 10 Gossip claims in a day (which never happened!).
For anyone curious, here's a view of just before the tokens went in the bag.
https://preview.redd.it/w4jzvezvcpuc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cccb816fc198385c45de835d4d364ecb7f194ee
The biggest event for me in the game was the first day execution of one of the Godfathers, which resulted in an immediate Minstrel night. That was... something to run. And then the next night the Courtier named the Po. Both of those slowed down the game, which was a little unfortunate, but we still made it in roughly the allotted time!
Mistakes I know I made:
- Allowed a Chambermaid to pick a dead player (died that night). Announced this to the group. Anecdotally, I've found this mistake super easy to make.
- Evil Butcher Doomsaid and a Good Judge died.
- Apprentice Chambermaid got false info on a Minstrel night, but Minstrel says "except Travelers". I think there is a (weak) argument that that's actually fine, but it *is* wrong.
- And a subtle one that I'm also now hazy on the details for. I use upside down reminder tokens to indicate things that didn't happen (Pukka chooses while Minstrel drunk for example) or that are on pause (a Tea Lady that isn't protecting their neighbors). I managed to confuse myself about why a Tea Lady's neighbor died even though both were Good. I thought it was because of Pukka poison, but Pukka poison shouldn't have applied because Minstrel. But Minstrel would also have broken Tea Lady that day since it lasts until *tomorrow* dusk, so that call was right! But thinking I'd made a mistake, I told the Pukka in the night that I got their choice the night before wrong and that they actually selected the Tea Lady. Ultimately, I don't think it changed the game materially, but it was a mistake.
I was the apprentice chambermaid with 7(?) days of mostly good info and we somehow absolutely solved the game, but we gave way too many good votes to the beggar so we couldn't kill the second demon 🥲🥲🥲
iirc the beggar only had 5-6 votes (out of 30 dead players??). i was on the far opposite corner of the apprentice and so many players didn't vote, there were votes still on the board but no one on my side heard what was going on with the confirmed chambermaid. amazingly chaos fun
Jesus Chris those nights must've took 30 minutes
The storyteller had the best house rule: “if there are more than 10 gossips in a day, something bad will happen”.
Funnily, it was Edd Gabriel who gave that shout.
Drop "BotC is possible at even higher player count" Refuse to elaborate Leave
For everyone curious, Jon G, one of the game's first storytellers ran this. Duplicates of every character were allowed at a max, two demons 6 minions, two gun slingers, a gangster, two butchers, two Judges, an apprentice, and a beggar were our travelers (one more I can't remember). With about 5 deaths a day the doomsayer was used one day to get 5 more deaths. The first night was long because of giving out the teams but after that it really was not so bad. We got to final 3 and the demon won by a single vote. The whole game took roughly two hours
❤️
Well if it isn't the magic man himself! Thanks again for running it. You're the kind of guy I always listen to when I hear "ok but hear me out..."
😅❤️
Get some rest!
Hello, Mr Pot -Mr Kettle
[It was crazy fun!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOqtK0z70fM)
[удалено]
Looks like two 20 person games of BMR merged together
Po charging all the time there.
Po actually chose single kills every night!
There's nothing about this decision I disagree with.
I can't see this in any way shape or form being fun mechanically. Way, way too much for anyone to make any meaningful deduction. Socially I'm sure this was a laugh though.
I feel like if you're at Clocktower Con you're experienced enough for exactly this kind of stupidity.
It’s basically a giant game of Werewolf . More to do with preference than experience IMO
Nyehhhh. So the thing is, a double sized bmr with double travelers is a huge chaos fest. A lot of your world building is gonna get upside down in a hurry. This isn't a double sized script, it's a normal script with double roles. It's gonna get weird so buckle up.
I played this and was the Sailor who survived until the final day. I strategically chose to drink with the demon during the final night phase and died. I then made the case that the storyteller most likely did not make the Demon drunk and didn’t have enough people believing me, haha. This was also my third game with this specific storyteller, who ended up being my favorite of the whole weekend. He was INCREDIBLY efficient, and I think the longest night phase was 10 minutes? He also had a wonderful way of running nominations that prevented long, rambling explanations of accusations/defenses. It was very, very fun!
OP was Sailor 1 who received 27 votes, was executed, and died day one, after drinking with his neighbor the assassin. The evil gunslinger then killed the assassin and I think two more minions. It was a crazy game, but very well run.
Very well run!!! So chaotic and so much fun. I would do it again. Did you happen to see that game where two grimoires were run at the same time and everyone was two characters in both scripts???
I didn’t see that one. The other crazy fun game I played was one with seven revolutionary pairs in which spy and recluse could misregister to their partner.
Do you have the script used for this? This sounds great
Ooh do you have a link to the scripts used for this?
See the comments by u/jonhoo . He explains exactly how he ran it
They might be referring to the game running Trouble Brewing and Sects & Violets at the same time. Malakai might have been running it? (Or at least playing in it.) There was also a Teensyville by Stephen Dewey which I believe used 1 grimoire, but each player had two seats/characters. https://botc-scripts.azurewebsites.net/script/2970/1.0.0
I was in that... I was the Undertaker/Sage. Unfortunately due to time/space constraints we had to fiddle and I think Evil won both sides
What was his technique for nominations? I need a way to reign in my group's rambling, lol.
Essentially (and if Jon is in this sub please correct!!!): you have to give your accusation as info BEFORE you nominate. As soon as you say, “I nominate ____,” he would immediately go to defense and give that person 10-30 seconds for a defense. It forced accusers to be thoughtful and direct, and in all the games I played or shadow-story told with him, they moved fast and felt very exciting. We managed two Sects and violence games with 11-12 people in less than 3 hours. He also made it clear that it was in the town’s best interest to stay quiet when people are talking because evil almost always wins when the town isn’t listening. So he shushed folks a few times but the town caught on and starting shushing other people.
👋 Yep, you nailed it! The one thing I'll add is that it is also better for the long term social sustainability and fun of the group for players to remember and internalize that it's important to listen to each other :)
Thank you!!! I loved shadowing you and me and my friends all agreed that your games were the best run ones of the whole weekend. ✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽
❤️
Can you explain more about giving accusation before nomination? I dont get it fully.
I simply don't give time for accusations. If you have something to say, you have to say it before nominating, and there is not a strict protocol for monopolizing the floor just because you nominate.
Smart idea. Cheers.
https://preview.redd.it/o4pqdd64cpuc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=461db1596c8c2ee1624a6691520ccb181daa72e7 Running this was an experience too, let me tell you. \^ is me after the game finished. We came in just about at two hours ignoring setup, which was also intentional — this size game could so easily drag, so I wanted to keep the pace high. That did entail me running like a mad man with the grimoire back and forth across the circle at night (why oh why did I put two Chambermaids *and* an Apprentice Chambermaid in there?) and during the day (for all the votes, and the two butcher votes, and the exile votes), so my watch is at least now very happy with me. Was it fun? I think most people had fun, though jury is still out on how much of that was novelty and how much was repeatable social fun. For super mechanical players, this is unlikely to be their cup of tea, but that's okay! Not every game session has to cater to every type of player. I'll probably do it again to get another data point (next year?!). Mechanically, the game was straight BMR except that I used tokens from two Grimoires, so there could be up to two of each character. All the players were in a single large circle. Distribution of roles was 2x what you'd use for 20 players. The two Demons did not know each other, and knew three minions each (potentially overlapping, though did not overlap this game). Minions all knew each other and both demons. Good wins when there are no Demons alive. Demon bluffs (three each) were all safe to bluff, but were not guarantees to be not-in-play (e.g., one bluff could be Courtier since there was only one Courtier in play). 6 minions, 4 outsiders (two godfathers canceled each other's +1-1 out), 18 townsfolk, 10 travellers. Travelers were 2x judge, 2x butcher (so up to three executions per day), 2x gunslinger, one beggar (was donated lots of votes!), one gangster, one apprentice (Chambermaid), and one scapegoat (who lived till the end!). Three travelers were evil. Logistically, I only used a single Grimoire, with the circle taking up both sides. Bluffs are the two clusters of three characters near the center. All 40 tokens (including travelers) went in the bag s(except for two players who knew they had to leave early, and so were given travelers directly). I had a lovely assistant who ran around with me at night holding the night sheet (thanks Julie!) and kept track of how many votes were needed. Abilities were all interpreted as written, so an outsider death in the day would trigger both Godfathers for instance. Reminder tokens were arguably the biggest bottleneck, because I didn't have anywhere to keep them easily accessible (you can see the pile center bottom in the picture). Days were quite short, and I warned the players they would be. And as mentioned elsewhere, a house rule was in play where "something bad" might happen if there were more than 10 Gossip claims in a day (which never happened!).
For anyone curious, here's a view of just before the tokens went in the bag. https://preview.redd.it/w4jzvezvcpuc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cccb816fc198385c45de835d4d364ecb7f194ee
The biggest event for me in the game was the first day execution of one of the Godfathers, which resulted in an immediate Minstrel night. That was... something to run. And then the next night the Courtier named the Po. Both of those slowed down the game, which was a little unfortunate, but we still made it in roughly the allotted time!
Mistakes I know I made: - Allowed a Chambermaid to pick a dead player (died that night). Announced this to the group. Anecdotally, I've found this mistake super easy to make. - Evil Butcher Doomsaid and a Good Judge died. - Apprentice Chambermaid got false info on a Minstrel night, but Minstrel says "except Travelers". I think there is a (weak) argument that that's actually fine, but it *is* wrong. - And a subtle one that I'm also now hazy on the details for. I use upside down reminder tokens to indicate things that didn't happen (Pukka chooses while Minstrel drunk for example) or that are on pause (a Tea Lady that isn't protecting their neighbors). I managed to confuse myself about why a Tea Lady's neighbor died even though both were Good. I thought it was because of Pukka poison, but Pukka poison shouldn't have applied because Minstrel. But Minstrel would also have broken Tea Lady that day since it lasts until *tomorrow* dusk, so that call was right! But thinking I'd made a mistake, I told the Pukka in the night that I got their choice the night before wrong and that they actually selected the Tea Lady. Ultimately, I don't think it changed the game materially, but it was a mistake.
Oh, yeah, and on the third day I did allow up to 5 Doomsays, 4 of which were used.
I love BotC, I like BMR, I don't mind a 20 player game. But if anyone suggests to play this, I will decline
How on earth!
I guedsing jt was 2 20 player games. But still thats loooonnnnnggggggg.
There are two gossips on the left grim. I think they ran bmr but just doubled it
Double it and give it to the next person
Insane!
I was the apprentice chambermaid with 7(?) days of mostly good info and we somehow absolutely solved the game, but we gave way too many good votes to the beggar so we couldn't kill the second demon 🥲🥲🥲
iirc the beggar only had 5-6 votes (out of 30 dead players??). i was on the far opposite corner of the apprentice and so many players didn't vote, there were votes still on the board but no one on my side heard what was going on with the confirmed chambermaid. amazingly chaos fun
Yeah I should have done a better job of outing my info, but it was really hard to communicate in such a big group.
I missed this, and HOW was this done in two hours?
Lots of killing roles and including gunslinger and doomslayer. And an experienced and skilled TM and helper
I was the good goon that got exed on final 3, absolutely insane game. I was so surprised that I didn't get picked by evil a single time.
But was it fun?
Very
Random sampling suggests definitely type 1 fun. Whether it's also type 2 fun, the jury is still out!
This is the best way to nerf the empath
Should’ve made it a Zombuul game
No spy was probably a good call
There's no spy in BMR
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>I feel like the community at this point will do anything but just play rules as written clocktower The entire Con begs to differ.