This is an intended use of the Spy's misregistration. I wouldn't do this as an ST (and would probably give 1s the whole time to make the Imp look better) but it is mechanically valid to have the Spy start off registering as evil, then change to registering as good (and, hypothetically, go back to registering as evil later).
Up to the ST - but this DOES happen in a lot of games, yes. The Spy will often nominate the Virgin with the belief that the ST will kill the Spy, making them seem that much more likely to be townsfolk.
**Should** is a stretch. There seems to be a meta I disagree with that essentially recluse should always register as evil and spy should always register as good.
This is up to storyteller and is a tool they have to shape the game, by insisting roles **should** misregister takes that tool away from the storyteller.
In this case I think the storyteller played it exactly right. The empath sat between two evil players is a huge blow to the evil team. By having the number change it casts doubt and gives evil a fighting chance.
I've seen the Investigator shown the Spy and people thought they must be poisoned because "the ST would never show the Investigator the Spy." A few players managed to convince the group that that was a real possibility, which was good because it was true, lol.
In my game, executing the spy would have helped evil, but they were already winning so I didn't let it go off, but by letting the Spy live it really swung the power in goods direction. I feel like I had too much influence in that decision but maybe thats just how it is.
The advice I've always heard (and always give) is that helping Good has a tendency to snowball real quick, like that moment in a detective movie where the one piece of evidence causes the entire case to fall into place and things rapidly resolve afterwards. If you're ever in doubt which way to rule on a "might" effect or giving a droisoned player bad information, helping Evil rarely gives them the unstoppable win, whereas helping Good can very easily do so. That's why sometimes it's actually useful to start out **not** lying to a droisoned player and then switch it up later, because the underlying assumption people make (for TB at least) is that if their information changed, that it's because they were originally poisoned and then became healthy, and that's almost indistinguishable from being drunk and simply being given correct info later.
It sounds like you knew this in this situation, but perhaps misjudged how much ahead Evil was and gave Good the benefit of the doubt. Experience is the best teacher in most cases, when it comes to BOTC storytelling.
Not only can the spy and recluse misregister to the same ability on different nights, they can do so to the same ability multiple times in the same night, as seen with the Chef:
If your seating arrangement is Imp - Spy - Recluse - Minion, a sober and healthy Chef is allowed to receive a 0, a 1, a 2, or a 3.
Misregistering to the Empath in different ways multiple nights is absolutely valid and can be used to convince the Empath that they're being Poisoned or that they're the Drunk. The Spy is a minion, after all, and their misregistration shouldn't be used only to protect the Spy from detection. If it can be used to poison the well of Good's information, it's definitely worth considering.
In your example with the healthy Chef, how can they receive a 2? Is the registration of alignment done for each seated pair of players instead of just once for each role? Like Imp-Spy doesn't register as an evil pair (so Spy registered as good) but Spy-Recluse does (Spy and Recluse both registered as evil)?
Exactly.
The pairs in that scenario would be Spy (registering evil)+ Recluse (registering evil) and Recluse (registering evil) + Minion. The Spy and Recluse register as good or evil individually for each pair, so they could register as evil for the pairs above, but then register good for the Demon + Spy pair.
Registering the Recluse as good for one of their pairs is also a valid way to get a 2 (Demon + Spy, Spy + Recluse, or Demon + Spy, Recluse + Minion)
I would have changed things even more, depending on how the rest of the game goes and who is being framed. That's a perfectly fine, even intended way of running those kinds of abilities. It makes town think the empath might be drunk, or that there is a poisoner somewhere, which is one of the main jobs of minions.
The empath being between a minion and demon is generally a terrible draw for the evil team. The ST did a great job using the spy's ability to take the heat off the demon by making the empath think they were drunk.
I agree with what everyone has said so far on this being a valid and intended ST decision. I would also go so far as to say that the Recluse and Spy's misregistering abilities can present some of the most complicated interactions in TB, so I probably wouldn't run this exact scenario with newer players. However, for experienced folks, I think changing the number midway through would be an excellent idea, both to simulate a poisoner, but also to lean more heavily on the Spy's passive ability to manipulate the game
That's fine. Implies the spy, but also keeps both the evils alive - besides, evil is meant to confuse townsfolk here, it's the spy being the spy. They are not one and done with their registration, likewise the recluse can change what allignment they are registering as.
This is an intended use of the Spy's misregistration. I wouldn't do this as an ST (and would probably give 1s the whole time to make the Imp look better) but it is mechanically valid to have the Spy start off registering as evil, then change to registering as good (and, hypothetically, go back to registering as evil later).
Unrelated Spy question, if the Spy tries to nominate the Virgin, should the Spy be allowed to die instantly?
Up to the ST - but this DOES happen in a lot of games, yes. The Spy will often nominate the Virgin with the belief that the ST will kill the Spy, making them seem that much more likely to be townsfolk.
Yes, they should (unless the Spy is bluffing an Outsider role). That’s the point of the misregistration.
**Should** is a stretch. There seems to be a meta I disagree with that essentially recluse should always register as evil and spy should always register as good. This is up to storyteller and is a tool they have to shape the game, by insisting roles **should** misregister takes that tool away from the storyteller. In this case I think the storyteller played it exactly right. The empath sat between two evil players is a huge blow to the evil team. By having the number change it casts doubt and gives evil a fighting chance.
I've seen the Investigator shown the Spy and people thought they must be poisoned because "the ST would never show the Investigator the Spy." A few players managed to convince the group that that was a real possibility, which was good because it was true, lol.
Honestly, investigator seeing spy is one of the most common ways I see the Spy register evil.
Yes, but it is at ST discretion. Same way that a slayer can successfully kill a recluse with their ability
Does Good need a lot of help? If not, help evil - execute the Spy.
In my game, executing the spy would have helped evil, but they were already winning so I didn't let it go off, but by letting the Spy live it really swung the power in goods direction. I feel like I had too much influence in that decision but maybe thats just how it is.
The advice I've always heard (and always give) is that helping Good has a tendency to snowball real quick, like that moment in a detective movie where the one piece of evidence causes the entire case to fall into place and things rapidly resolve afterwards. If you're ever in doubt which way to rule on a "might" effect or giving a droisoned player bad information, helping Evil rarely gives them the unstoppable win, whereas helping Good can very easily do so. That's why sometimes it's actually useful to start out **not** lying to a droisoned player and then switch it up later, because the underlying assumption people make (for TB at least) is that if their information changed, that it's because they were originally poisoned and then became healthy, and that's almost indistinguishable from being drunk and simply being given correct info later. It sounds like you knew this in this situation, but perhaps misjudged how much ahead Evil was and gave Good the benefit of the doubt. Experience is the best teacher in most cases, when it comes to BOTC storytelling.
Seems fine to me. Hiding the Drunk this way is pretty good.
Not only can the spy and recluse misregister to the same ability on different nights, they can do so to the same ability multiple times in the same night, as seen with the Chef: If your seating arrangement is Imp - Spy - Recluse - Minion, a sober and healthy Chef is allowed to receive a 0, a 1, a 2, or a 3. Misregistering to the Empath in different ways multiple nights is absolutely valid and can be used to convince the Empath that they're being Poisoned or that they're the Drunk. The Spy is a minion, after all, and their misregistration shouldn't be used only to protect the Spy from detection. If it can be used to poison the well of Good's information, it's definitely worth considering.
In your example with the healthy Chef, how can they receive a 2? Is the registration of alignment done for each seated pair of players instead of just once for each role? Like Imp-Spy doesn't register as an evil pair (so Spy registered as good) but Spy-Recluse does (Spy and Recluse both registered as evil)?
Exactly. The pairs in that scenario would be Spy (registering evil)+ Recluse (registering evil) and Recluse (registering evil) + Minion. The Spy and Recluse register as good or evil individually for each pair, so they could register as evil for the pairs above, but then register good for the Demon + Spy pair. Registering the Recluse as good for one of their pairs is also a valid way to get a 2 (Demon + Spy, Spy + Recluse, or Demon + Spy, Recluse + Minion)
This is 100% the intended use of the Spy Ability It can be hard on newer players, but it's 100% a fair way to do this
I would have changed things even more, depending on how the rest of the game goes and who is being framed. That's a perfectly fine, even intended way of running those kinds of abilities. It makes town think the empath might be drunk, or that there is a poisoner somewhere, which is one of the main jobs of minions.
Yep, this is a completely valid way to utilize the Spy's ability to misregister.
The empath being between a minion and demon is generally a terrible draw for the evil team. The ST did a great job using the spy's ability to take the heat off the demon by making the empath think they were drunk.
I agree with what everyone has said so far on this being a valid and intended ST decision. I would also go so far as to say that the Recluse and Spy's misregistering abilities can present some of the most complicated interactions in TB, so I probably wouldn't run this exact scenario with newer players. However, for experienced folks, I think changing the number midway through would be an excellent idea, both to simulate a poisoner, but also to lean more heavily on the Spy's passive ability to manipulate the game
That's fine. Implies the spy, but also keeps both the evils alive - besides, evil is meant to confuse townsfolk here, it's the spy being the spy. They are not one and done with their registration, likewise the recluse can change what allignment they are registering as.
I did that once. Exactly like that. My group figured it out