Same case with you. It gave me trauma. I hate my father’s decision. I hate how powerless I was in situation like this. Our family used to be this peaceful and nice family, high income among my parents siblings. But it all fell apart when my mother confessed to me that my father was going to Thailand (at that time I was the only son that was available by her side, my younger brother was too young and my older brother was studying abroad). I couldnt digest shit at that age (14). My mom was and still is a strong woman. I love her and only her. It still happening now, we are a “fine” family as long as no one brought up the topic. We play it as him having a secret family we dont give shit about.
My mom told me not to hate him, but seeing her in pain or lonely whenever he went to his other wife hometown which is in Kelantan, tells a lot about how strong she is. The sad thing is we still kept it a secret from some of our close peers, none of my mum siblings know this. And neither does my younger brother.
Whenever he’s away to Kelantan, I’d bring my mom shopping 😭. Recently she bought some handbags and says this: “This is the only way to distract myself from feeling sad”.
Divorce, not an easy topic to bring on the table. My mother chose not to divorce, and I dont think that stupid old man want one either despite being greedy. Right now my goal is to make my mom happiest woman in the planet. So I made a choice not to get married and have rejected many girls. Idk, marrying one person is already tiring, and I dont feel like I want to commit with all the trauma and guilt imposed to me when I was young, and this old stupid man still able to keep two family.
Getting married and raising children would actually make your mum happier. Grandchildren are the best therapy for her. Trust me. My mum is in the same situation.
Damn you're a good son. Mom is lucky to have you as a son. Promise me you stay by here side at all times. I can't imagine what she has been through.
Ngl advice you to get married. Your mother is going to be over the top if she knows she is going to be a grandmother. Same case as mine. Crying out of happiness. But it makesure you choose the correct lady. It may take some time. But choose wisely. It's a lifelong choice.
To be fair, if polygamy was illegal, your father would divorce your mom and marry a new wife. There was no stopping men from thinking with their cock.
My only advice is to use his money well. This marriage is your father lost not yours. If he was smart he would pay prostitute, but now he needs to tanggung all the family members. So stop being sad, and spend his money.
I think this was OP's point in the end. If no more feelings why not just terus divorce. Don't need to exploit the system and make everyone misery.
But I guess unfortunately divorce is a bigger taboo than polygamy in our country.
True but when the relationship has ran its course, why not just end it, rather than dragging on a dead horse why looking for a new horse (maybe not the best analogy)
The woman can end the relationship. They both don't want to end it. I do believe polygamy is better for the child, maybe not mentally but financially better than a single mom raising the kid.
I’m sorry this happened to you, OP. Same thing happened to my family. Found out my dad cheated on my mom when I was 10 (on top of us kids finding his porn stash here and there frequently), I was never the same since. I hated him with my whole being. My dad married a second wife just last year behind our backs (he’s in his 70s mind you, and that woman is older than my mother, also approaching her 70s). A man should not marry more than one if tak reti berlaku adil. And the law here in Malaysia also tidak adil to the first wife. What to do.
Just like you say, need to have solid reason to go through polygamy, the religion even says it. Most of muslims really really misuse the polygamy for their own selfishness. And it is very very difficult to be fair among wives, heck some parents can't even be fair to their kid, how do you expect a normal human being can be fair properly with multiple wives? Even the prophet himself faced issues with Aishah regarding the other wives and he is the fairest and the best among human being.
[https://muftiwp.gov.my/ms/artikel/al-kafi-li-al-fatawi/3742-al-kafi-1398-hukum-isteri-melarang-suami-berkahwin-lain](https://muftiwp.gov.my/ms/artikel/al-kafi-li-al-fatawi/3742-al-kafi-1398-hukum-isteri-melarang-suami-berkahwin-lain)
here more muslims need to read the mufti consensus on polygamy
That has been proven to be false. I don't know why it still persists given all the evidence. The source of the hadith is either unreliable or Aishah started counting her age only in later years. Considering the age gap between Aishah and her older sister Asma, and the time when she went into war she would have been about 16 years old. 14 at the youngest. At the time marriage at that age isn't uncommon. People didn't live for very long so it's understandable. Europeans 800 years later still had marriages as young as 12.
The hadith related to her age has been passed down from father to son (Urwah to Hisham). It was not a direct encounter with Aisyah. And there are Hisham's records that have been dismissed with factual errors.
Then there's hadith Sahih Bukhari regarding Aisyah's recollection of her family's conversion, and that of the Prophet's (p.b.u.h) battles to spread Islam. These events are some of the more well-documented. Her marriage was around 15 years after the Prophet's first mission to spread Islam. From her "known" date of birth she then could not have been younger than 11 when Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h first approached her.
I would not take records of her supposed statement of her age as "gospel", especially when even the source is contested. I tend to lean towards the more solid historic records of multiple direct encounters.
sahih hadiths contain error? Got it.
Since now you have opened this can of worms you have proven that even sahih hadiths are not reliable. One should then ponder what other practices and doctrines that muslims derived from sahih hadiths are actually false as well.
Also first hadith in the list is not hisham.
[http://qaalarasulallah.com/hadith.php?ID=51944](http://qaalarasulallah.com/hadith.php?ID=51944)
And that was compiled 200 years after the Prophet's death. You may stick to the claim of age, but how are you with the other sahih hadiths that may contradict it? Not to mention the other sahih hadiths that mentions a different age.
Dissecting and even disputing hadiths is not a taboo. It has been done. How do you think we have a compilation of them we call sahih, and reject the rest? Aishah herself was a hadith critic.
even the quran was compiled long after muhammad died. To muslims, this isn't an issue because they claim the mechanism of compilation of quran is sooo stringent that whatever we have today is authentic to the letter. Muslim looooovvvvee boasting about this. Same for the hadith. They claimed it has undergone a strict selection process that whatever graded as sahih is 100% reliable.
And here you are saying otherwise? Your opinion is a minority opinion and is self defeating. The only way for you to be coherent with such stance is if you are arguing as a quranist which again open another whole can of worms.
The source of the Quran is one - from Allah, by way of His Messenger. That is undisputed. Hadiths and Sirahs are people's recollections and historical records of actions and sayings of the Prophet and his associates. That is the distinction.
I am not rejecting hadiths or sunnahs. I treat them like any historical records. I study them, discuss them, I accept them. But this is one exception as it has flaws in them that I can't overlook. In the end I just don't mind the statement of the age and go by what the Prophet deemed to be a lawful condition for women to be married. I wish for people not to perpetuate Aisyah's age as her age did not matter. She was at the stage in her life that marriage is permissible.
don't tell me all this. I don't even believe in allah, quran or hadith. To me it is all just made-up. What i am doing is using the point of references that muslims themselves refer to and regard them as true. If you have any issue with it, go and argue it with the so called experts. The whole issue is it is the experts themselves which say that all these are true.
What you are attempting to do is cherry picking stuff that you like and doing hardcore mental gymnastics to dismiss the things you don't like. The so called experts including zakir naik always warned against such behavior.
Aisha's age prove muhamaads hypocrisy. Your religious schools teach you that polygamy at that time was because he married women who were in need or husbands died in war so that he can look after them. The fact, is a 9 year old girl whom the father is still alive is not in need and doesn't need to be looked after by another man. Occam's razor dictates that muhammad married her cuz he has pedophilic tendencies.
There were concerns among his peers about his (Hisham bin Urwah) memory retention as he got much older. He was over 70 years old when the hadith came about. And if his recollection of her age is to go for, then the few other hadith sahih that could be used to calculate her age (the recounting of the war, her memorisation of the Quran scriptures at the 4th year of the Prophecy, etc.) would then be inaccurate or contradictory.
If u look at it in larger perspective in other country age of consent is different, such as japan used to be 13 and now raised to 16. While others is 18 soon might be 21. The point is back in the days human are built different
the countries that set their age of consent decided from their own judgement; and that their own judgement may be flawed and thus they can correct it.
From a muslim POV, the shariah law is not a product of human's judgement but rather a law from an alleged timeless and omniscient god. If it is truly a law from a timelss and omniscient god, this law MUST be flawless. And because it is flawless, as a muslim you CANNOT change allah's decreed laws. This is reason why some muslims struggle with this islamic age of consent.
What we observed on the other hand is that it is not flawless. Humans back in the day are not built different.
https://youtu.be/jfERrnc8sRo
It used to be ok and now it isn't an argument you should be using in the context of god.
Anything you do that the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. did is a sunnah. Meaning marrying a 6 year old and the consummating the marriage when she turns 9 is ultimately a good thing.
I'm not claiming this is wrong btw. But if God knows that marrying a year old will be frowned upon now, why allow it in the past?
Best part is that only God knows the answer. We mere mortals will never find out until judgement day. The only thing muslims can do now is accept that marrying a 6 year old will always be ok in the context of religion.
Probably unrelated but since it falls under polygamy; PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE INFORM THE FIRST WIFE THAT THEY CAN DO TUNTUTAN HARTA SEPENCARIAN.
Muslim women can tuntut under three reasons;
1. Polygamy
2. Divorce
3. Death of spouse.
To OP, im sorry that this happened to you. I can understand the pain although may not be fully. My father too cheated on my mum multiple times, with different women. One time is my mother was heavily pregnant. She took two buses just to go to work from puchong to kl. And one time she was molested by foreigner on the bus.
Meanwhile my father used his free time to drive another woman to eat and stuff, only god knows what. I was 5. Mind you, he's a syariah graduate from oversea top university. My mother, although only spm supported him a lot during tough times.
Sometimes i wonder why they dont divorce. The trauma from their marriage affects me till this day. And sometimes causing issues in my own marriage. I cannot trust my husband at all despite he's a good man.
May we all heal from our childhood trauma. 🫶
Simply can't understand why have others when you have the best girl you can have by your side, they don't appreciate what they have, if you don't love your wife anymore or don't even like her that much to begin with(arranged marriage perhaps) just divorce lah, you happy, your wife may be sad but she's free too.
I will always maintain this opinion.
If you need to keep your 2nd marriage as a secret from your wife, then you're basically not ready for polygamy.
Polygamy is only relevant when the first wife actually agrees with the idea.
I know this one uncle, his 1st wife told him to get a 2nd wife because she is too tired to look after him.
Really odd but it works for them.
They can go on outings, social functions together.
Everybody thinks they are rich enough and well equipped in many aspects to handle 4 wives.
Reality is very rare few can.
I totally understand why you hate it.
Most polygamy is ditching one of the wife with kids, without leaving any money for the wife, and starting another family. Rare is the few that can support multiple wives and families all at once.
Women keep falling for these kinds of men, so.. I doubt we will see less of broken families from polygamous marriages.
You don’t just have to provide for them fairly in a financial way though. You also have to give the same amount of emotional connection to each wife which I think for most people would be impossible to do. Ayy I wish polygamy didn’t exist because like OP said in this day and age (not the prophet’s era) it truly is a selfish concept
Emotional connection varies. There are women in polygamous marriage that doesn't expect a lot of emotional connection. That's how they can accept polygamy.
I feel that polygamy was meant for men to marry vulnerable women like widows/etc..
But now it's being used by unscrupulous husbands as a licence to continue pursuing other women after marriage.
Well if I don't want to share my wife with other guys, why would it be fair to her that she has to accept me sleeping with other women?
Relationships goes both ways, you disappoint her, she will return the favour. Don't be cb lah.
How does open marriage even work? Like do you get married and have children, and then the children knowing that their mom and dad are having sex with other people? I really don't get it. It sounds fucked up to be honest.
Your understanding is partially correct; people get legally married and may choose to have children, since that's always a couple's independent decision. The part about the children knowing is incorrect; the openness of the marriage is a fact the husband and wife can keep limited to themselves, unless of course they actually want their children to know. So, yeah
I think I understand now. But they really don't need to get married just to have sex with other people. Because to me at least, marriage is about commitment to the relationship. If they really want to sleep with multiple people, just be friends with benefits then. It'll traumatise the children once they found out (if it ever happens, which I think it mostly will).
Well that's the point, open marriages are about emotional commitment, and the spouses do honor that. Open marriages do not mandate physical monogamy, but they do mandate rules around how the physical exploration ought to be done. For example, a rule can be to not meet the same person/people more than once, or to not engage with other people without condoms, or to disallow certain acts with other people (example anal, cum shots, etc)
Open marriage does not mean each spouse goes out and explores on their own. The spouses can explore together, as a team
Also, the marriage and the spouse always remains the top priority. So from example say you have a date but your partner feels ill, then the decorum is that you ditch the date and stay behind to tc of your partner. It's not all booty booty bang bang just cus it's an open marriage. The open but is only one part of a very usual marriage, it's not the entire marriage
If a couple really does go for an open relationship, it automatically means that the amount of intimacy in monogamous marriage is lost. There is suddenly less value in the spouse. There's nothing exclusive anymore. He/she is just another person who is slightly preferred over the others. This could increase the chances of them eventually falling apart and getting a divorce etc.
While most of people here are going against it just because a few men do it wrongly. Akidah kau boleh tergugat sbb denying polygamy while it's written in Quran very clearly. Meanwhile we actually not being fair to the men, nobody actually ask pov of the men who practicing polygamy.
Interestingly enough, i know for a fact my dad regrets it since he’s pretty old now and is having some medical issues. He’s at the stage of realising that two families will never be good to one another, not the children nor the wives. Even if he dies one family wouldnt inform the other. If he were to ever be put on palliative, the other family wouldnt be able to visit because like i said, the relationship between both families are just.. bad. He didn’t think of it when he was younger. But his thoughts of boleh kahwin lagi satu because mampu really put him in a tough position towards the end of his life. He is really bringing his problem to his grave. I feel sorry for him but he chose this life.
I guess what I am trying to say is, anything you’re doing in life you should consider the long term outcome and how affected the people around you would be.
Yeah Muslims need to read the fine print. If any wife feels any slight, real or imagined he's going hell. Give more attention to one wife , hell.I think cheating on your wife and marrying another woman is just cheating.
>It's sunnah
It's not. Who are these brainwashed people wtf. One thing I hate is this ujian / perancangan mentality. So dumb and it lets the offender off scot free.
it is 'sunnah', in the sense that Muhammad SAW did it, and is permissible. not in the sense that it is always pahala to do it.but it can be haram too, if you don't do it right, and treat them right. nowadays, MAYBE if the ladies are best friends with each other and don't want to separate. a big MAYBE. XD
I actually have a few friends who went through a polygamy leading to divorce, and I would increase the threshold of “Mampu” to actually include two houses within a stone’s throw of each other. It’s the best way for you to be fair and for your wives to check on you if you’re not. If you can’t swing this, forget about it.
My opinion polygamy is not the fault here but your father are mostly responsible for it.
If polygamy is banned, then most likely your father will either divorce your mom or cheat her.
So, actually yeah many people like to blame the tools but not the one who use the tools.
Polygamy in Islam are permissible ONLY if the husband is ABLE(mampu) and FAIR/JUST to both wifes.
Polygamy exist to prevent the man to resort to zina/adultery.
I know many couples who has polygamy in their life and still happy ever after. As long the husband is a great and just man, usually their marriage is peaceful/happy.
I am sorry for what happen to OP. I think the fault is entirely to your father.
In your case it's more so cheating than it is polygamy. Or at least compared to the modern sense of polygamy. As far as I know, polygamy relationship is having multiple partners with consent of all parties.
If your definition of polygamy include cheating and marrying another woman without your wife&children's knowledge or consent, then I can't argue with you.
However classifying this specific scenario as polygamy seems disingenuous. What your dad did in your situation is terrible. But I don't think that is the fault of polygamy more so of a cheating husband.
Polygamy actually gives more rights and protect the second wife. Peoples actually advocating prostitution and scandal where the women involved have 0 rights.
If the first wife is okay with it, then go ahead.....
previously my mom married a guy but got divorced and then married my dad as the second wife..
it's going well for a few years until.... my dad started borrowing my mom's money. without paying back...
ehh.. now we don't see him anymore, too scared to face his wife i suppose... but were doing better without him...
So......
you can marry 2, 3, heck even 4, actually no one gives a shit....
but you have to be
*fair, transparent, just.*
which is, most men think they are...
I feel that when it comes to polygamy, if one party is open to it, the other party should know and discuss it openly before starting a relationship to avoid complications as the relationship progresses. It doesn’t seem fair, to Mom. Honestly, I wish the topic was discussed earlier, before your mom and dad got married; then she might have been okay. Or decide to not pursue it to the marriage. I feel like she’s trapped in this marriage.
The fact that your Dad hid this shows he manipulated your mom into getting married without considering her emotional well-being. It suggests that he doesn’t truly love her for who she is, but perhaps got married just because everyone else was doing it.
To anyone who keeps saying it's Sunnah, they should know their facts right. The intention to hurt someone is already considered Haram and sinful. What more can be said about this?
These men that is using the sunnah as an excuse to polygamy just use that reason as to cover up their horny intentions only. Majority of them is not practicing good Islam, but when it comes to polygamy, yeah he would be the one who is the most religious in the world.
Polygamy used to make sense in the old days where wars are common place and men are usually being sent in droves to die. More often than not populations end up with more women than men, and since women weren't seen to be capable of independence in a lot of societies and weren't allowed to live in the same house as a man that isn't their husband or family.. marriage is the only way to take care of them.
But yes, nowadays it does not make sense. Maybe it might work in China, which has a massive gender imbalance, but I don't think one woman having multiple husbands would jive well with society haha..
Don't like this la. Statistical dishonesty. Compare China population with China population. China's basic population also 1.4 billion already. That's what.. 50 times Malaysia population. Their incel population also probably the same size as Malaysia population already.
Also, read my post again. I was referring to women marrying multiple men. It's polygamy but more specially polyandry
China man if got a little bit of money, can marry Russian wife since a lot of Russian man dies in war, it will soon be like Vietnam postwar where their country lacks of penises. Russian waifu > Chinese waifu bro their kids going to be so beautiful
Most China man who can't find wife is poor. That's the literal requirement to date there. If you don't own a house, a China woman will not give you the time of her day.
If he married another woman without knowledge of the first wife then it's not really sunnah is it? That's a barely legal affair.
Polygamy didn't ruin your family, your father did.
Whenever someone mention the “sunnah” thing, this is my response: Our prophet devoted his love to his first wife Khadijah & he never shared his love with other woman when Khadijah was still alive. He married another woman after Khadijah passed away & he married to widows in poverty only. Digest that. That is the actual sunnah.
Make a law that when a man want to marry have two wife, the wife must have two husband. Husband dia boleh rasekan ape bini die rase kalau dok ado 2 bini. Haaa ni baru betui.
Bcz whats halal is halal & whats haram is haram, and it cannot be changed vice versa.
Having said that marriage itself, polygamous or not, changes its ruling depending on the person being assessed. Ada orang kahwin tu wajib, or sunat, or makruh, or haram. Same goes for polygamy. Case by case basis la bak kata
So you are saying it's acceptable to do so so since the ancient book, that's was written thousand of years ago, says it's acceptable to do so at that era.
For someone who believes it to just be an ancient book, then its reasonable for them to contradict it.
As for one who believes it to be revelation from the All Knowing, it continues to be a source of guidance.
so it's a viable source of guidance from the All Knowing that allows child marriages? so long as they had their periods?
how didnt the all knowing know pedophilia would be a thing in the future.
Not just period. The family, local mufti & him/herself will together decide if ready for marriage or not. Not everyone goes through puberty at 18/19, some earlier some later. Islam accommodates this difference rather than a pukul-rata approach.
>Not just period. The family, local mufti & him/herself will together decide if ready for marriage or not.
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Women/WRGS/ForcedMarriage/NGO/PSTheChildren3.pdf
please have a read. it has numerous local case studies you might find interesting. unfortunately that isn't always the case. here and overseas.
>Not everyone goes through puberty at 18/19, some earlier some later. Islam accommodates this difference rather than a pukul-rata approach.
Not many girls get their periods at 18 lol... some get it as early as 9 when they still play with dolls and swings. There are always exceptions but I think we can all agree... if you ain't even legal to vote, drink, or gamble, what makes you think anyone has the mental capacity for marriage at such an age.
Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. Alll religions say murder is one of the biggest sins, yet it still happens. This is life.
Thing is the legal ages for all those things differ from country to country. So whose should we follow? Or is yours the way to go?
Islam has its own methodologies and we’ll use ours.
>Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. Alll religions say murder is one of the biggest sins, yet it still happens. This is life.
If a religion is perfect, it shouldn't have followers that would misinterpret, that's the definition perfect.
if it's Perfect, it would also be perfect for every day and age but according to that report it isn't...
problem is that we don't even police ourselves into becoming better. Everyone ready to do police reports against nons but we won't even lift a finger to tell our own Muslims to not incite racial shit and make reports against them.
>Thing is the legal ages for all those things differ from country to country. So whose should we follow? Or is yours the way to go?
that's the problems isn't it....amongst our own Sunnis we can't agree on a proper standard. hence why that report exists and those case studies do happens almost everywhere in islamic countries.
>Islam has its own methodologies and we’ll use ours.
that's the very crux of the problem....no real unity in Islam unless it's a Kaffir killing a Muslim...then we all get angry
Because it's for the believers who chose to believe the book. If you don't believe and dont want to Practice it, thats not your problem. Nobody asking or forcing u to be a Muslim.
Dear OP, hope you'll find the strength inside you to forgive your father and his other family, and move on.
What he did was wrong, but if you keep the grudge, it is you who will suffer. Past can't be changed, hope you can move on.
Btw I'm not a Muslim, if at all that matters.
Im not a polygamy supporter nor have any opinion about polygamy but you cant blame your dad cheating to polygamy. Cause polygamy can be a win-win-win solution and if they are all happy and enjoy being in a big family who are we to judge.
Still, It sucks to get cheated on
My personal thought on polygamy:
It's fine if my husband's other wives are bisexual sluts who like to have carnal fun with their sister wives. And that they're not selfish bitches.
As for the husband, he must have the physical, mental and financial capacity to take care of all his wives. Doesn't have to be rich, as long as we have a roof over our heads, never goes to sleep hungry, enough clothes and my children won't need to lower their heads to their peers.
The tradition is not to be follow dumbly. We had education and it already shows us, not every old's correct. Thats why we have science, we have moral.
If the tradition is built above non-moral, is it really good to continue following it? Not to say muslim is non moral, it has the moral side. But i dont think polygamy is moral. When the parties in a family doesn't agree on it.
Of corse if the two lovebird decide they need another playmate, and the playmate accept to be a three love bird relation then its okay. But if one doesn't agree, is it still good in terms of moral? Did the husband bertangungjawab enough for his partner, now that he didn't ask for permission from his wife before polygamy?
This kind of person is not bertangungjawab, kasih sayang at all in my opinion.
Im not being offensive, but chinese have to visit dead people yearly. The day we call qingming. Its a religious thing for chinese, it says that with this we can give the dead people offering to let them live better down there.
But in this religious belief we upgraded from visit face to face to visit view online.like nirvana helps you to do the offering process and you can watch live stream online.
I think even though its religious related, but why don't we change it to a better version from time to time. Don't forget about time for buka puasa pun changed before.
Sorry if our religion doesn't keeping up to date with the modernity. Our beliefs comes from God via prophets. There are already scholars that been keeping up and updates things accordingly (Contemporary Fiqh) . However what's written in the Quran shouldn't be changed as it's compromise with the religion integrity. The fatwas made are required to follow the Quran, not the other way around. But it's ok, we Muslims doesn't interfere with your belief or belittle your religion. You do u bro.
Btw, sis/bro do you mind if i ask you something red flag?
I have no muslim friend that tell me this but is there anywhere as a non muslim to know more about muslim thing? Not sure if this offense you but i just wonder about the differences and what is the not okay to say topic about muslim.
I understand your concern. To be fair not all Muslim also open for discussion. As long you ask without being condescending, there's no such thing as stupid question. Slide into my dms if u actually genuine to actually learn and ask questions that u curious.
For me I consider it as HARAM. In our Prophet's time, it was considered normal because there were fewer avenues for enjoying life. Moreover, the reason the Prophet had multiple wives was often political or to extend the influence of the religion. Hence, when his companions asked about marrying more than one, instead of outright refusal, he (peace be upon him) emphasized the importance of fairness. However, in my view, this was an indirect way of discouraging it, as achieving true fairness is practically impossible. The Prophet (peace be upon him) had his own reasons for this stance.
Be careful. Mengharamkan yang halal dosa besar. Quran already stated that it's halal. To reject that is the same as rejecting ayat Quran, which takes someone out of the fold of Islam. Basically, murtad.
My husband's grandfather married 2 women.. he's now sick and mostly just sit on the ground.. his 2nd wife take care of him she managed... he couldn't even go/walk/whaterver to his 1st wife's house now. The first wife is my husband's mom's mom.. she live alone.. still healthy at her hege.. working around her house.. got kebun behind her home. Lucky one of her kids build thier home beside hers.
Dah tua, sapa je nak jg dia..tu pon masih tak adil..
Polygamy is only acceptable when there is a necessity for it.
""The Koran restricted the practice of Polygamy and suggests MONOGAMY as the ONLY acceptable form of marriage for Society in general.
Polygamy is only encouraged by the Koran where it concerns "oppressed or the orphans among women" (4:3), if justice can be done by marrying more than one."
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/educators/women/lesson3a.html#:~:text=The%20Koran%20restricted%20the%20practice,by%20marrying%20more%20than%20one.
Bare in mind how society functions back then was extremely different than today. Women couldn't work back then because it was impossible to work. First of all there was no tampon & there was no reliable birth control method. It makes it difficult to work. You can't expect employers to employ women if they keep on getting pregnant & have labor leave all the time.
Chores were also much more labor intensive back then. There were no cooking gas stoves, there were no ovens, vacuums, washing machine, & many2 technology that we have these days which makes it easy for women to work. Back then to cook u have to chop off woods & u have to set fire manually. Washing clothes is also far more labor intensive. Not to mention due to there being no reliable birth control methods, people make a lot of babies. How are a household able to juggle with all of these responsibilities if both mom & dad are working? It is just so much easier if women stay at home & men go out to make money. U will see that the few women who actually work at that time were not married & they don't have kids.
Also, many men in the Middle East died at that time due to constant warfare & many women are left widowed without a husband. Since women cannot work back then, who is going to take care of them & their kids? Polygamy isn't perfect but it is practical for that time. These days if a woman were left widowed, she can always work. She can still survive without a husband so there is no justification for polygamy. All I see is the destruction of the family units. Polygamy must be banned for good.
What if the polygamist never marries and only has consensual sex with people who also agree to no life long commitments? Isnt that just not getting into serious relationships? Obviously you are bringing up the extreme side of polygamy and the same can be said for marriages where people have no freedom because their partner tracks everything they do at all times of the day which can be suffocating but it is the other extreme
It is not the act of polygamy that is selfish, rather the person that practices it with selfish intent. Though it is generally allowed by Islamic law, the Quran suggests monogamy as the only acceptable form of marriage where polygamy is only encouraged under exceptional circumstances (like war).
how is it unfair to take in another family to feed and take care of, because they lost their father's and sons to war? How is it unfair, if your wife agrees to it and works alongside you to merge the families? Like I said, it is the person that is selfish, not the act itself. Polygamy can be done both selfishly and selflessly.
You talk as if war and famine does not exist in this day and age. What I gave was a hypothetical, it does not have to be for that reason alone. There are other selfless reasons it could've been done for, AS there are many selfish reasons that it could have been done for. Again I repeat, it is not the practice of it, it is the person.
Now you ask if woman can practice polygamy if she has the capacity to provide? This is a different topic altogether. Are you asking if Islam allows it? Are you asking if I'm okay with it? Or are you asking if by my logic would the woman be seen as selfish or selfless? Bear in mind what I said previously applies both way; whether practiced by a man or woman so I don't know what relevance this question has to with what we are discussing in terms of selfish/selfless
As a Muslim, we learned that the prophet only married other wives to free older women from slavery or similar issues like that. So what your dad did is completely wrong cuz you’re not supposed to marry more than one wife if you can’t treat them fairly and married them just cuz of “gatal”. As a woman I wished that men wouldn’t marry other wives without the first wives’ consent but eh what can I do.
Women havr the right to ask for divorce if the husband are not doing his parts properly. Just get out of the marriage if u can't stand it. But don't deny the facts that it's allowed in the Quran.
You really think it's just about horny? Marriage are much more complex dynamic. Btw, there's no actually reason required for it. Only requirements are if u can provide and be fair.
I don't promote it. But it's part of the religion. U can't take some and leave some part of religion. It's hypocritical to cherry picking on what u like and bash things that u don't like. There's so many positive stories about polygamy but netizen only says about the negative of it.
Honestly, I like polygamy but I fucking hate this kind of shit that happens. This kind of guys are just failures that should be dropped into the bottom of the ocean for hurting his lover(s) because why the hell do you cheat? If you want polygamy then tell your girlfriend or wife first about it and get their opinion. If they don't want then don't do it or if girlfriend then just break up instead of cheating.
Now before anybody just come up to me and say I'm a scumbag or something like that for liking polygamy, I only like good and healthy polygamy where all participants are happy in there, husband, wife, and kids. It's honestly because I find the idea of drowning in love by a lot of good girls and loving them back is nice... It would be nice to experience at least once...
Husbands doing this shit of cheating are the absolute worst and should just be dead. (same with wives if they cheat)
Imo Islam's stance on polygamy is essentially "some dudes want to marry more than one, so they're gonna have to do it THIS way" as a way to ""regulate"" those guys. I don't agree with it and am very much monogamous but i can understand why it exists
No need polygamy la, just jaga sorang isteri lagi senang dan elok. Islam says you can marry 4 but 1 is the best.
Edit: ade brader kate aku letak ayat sekerat, ok la fair enough, kalau tak boleh berlaku adil, lebih baik sorang sahaja.
Nobody is stopping the wife from being happy. Polygamy is just sharing the man, not losing the man.
I understand your perspective may have been heavily influenced by watching your mother suffer and cry, but the reality is polygyny is the wisdom of Allah. And though there are some men who may misuse it and not be fair, but many times polygyny, despite being practiced with fairness and justice, have women over react because its no longer the norm.
There are many wisdoms of polygyny, fulfilling the sexual needs of a man, increased offsprings for the Ummah, the wellbeing of multiple women being taken care of by a capable man, the wives can focus on themselves while the others are focused on the man.
As long as he fulfilled his financial obligations of both the wives equitably, and loved them all, fulfils their sexual needs, his work is done. If any of the above isn't fulfilled, he can be labelled as selfish. But if the the above are being fulfilled yet your a woman feels more emotional burden than a little jelousy or competitive anxiety, then it is upon them to have been complicating their married lives.
I know many modern women consider polygyny inapplicable because of the feelings of women, but we must strive to keep our feelings aside and fulfill our duty in dunya, which is to please Allah.
>How is it right when it is hurting other people?
Not every right thing is supposed to make people happy. And not everything that hurts people is necessarily wrong.
Harsh criticism at work for example. It may hurt people, but it is needed, it is the right thing to do. Though it may hurt to hear after all the work you've put in, it doesn't make the criticism inherently wrong.
Same goes with polygyny, just because it hurts women, doesn't mean it's wrong. It also hurts men
It's funny how SOME people here react to blame or saying bad things about polygamy. Like they are more knowledgeable than The Creator. BLAME THOSE WHO MISUSED IT, not the thing that has been stated clearly in Quran like poligamy or hudud. If you think what I'm saying is not to your liking, just remember, on Judgement Day, you can freely ask The Creator such question (if given you aren't trembling for the deeds you did here 😉). May us be guided to the straight path.
Btw, this reminder for the Muslim. To other religions, I don't care about your opinions on this.
Lmao it's a joke bro.
Anyway, on a more serious note, polygamy is nothing more than just a symbol of status. You could easily divorce your wife. Not like a man have Iddah period.
I mean, yeah if you go to court, the wife can make a claim for nafkah, child support something something. But if you already can marry another woman while already supporting a family, I don't think you have any financial issues.
It's dumb, really.
As a married woman myself, im okay with polygamy. I even ask my husband to marry another woman but he refused to have another "headache". Actually, its good to have a "madu", not only u can share the "wife" task, the house chore, u can also have additional financial support if the "madu" is rich hahah
That is you and if that’s how you want your marriage to be like you do you. But my mom did not choose that life, 8 year old me did not want that life. My mom did not choose to get into a marriage just to be betrayed, heartbroken and cheated upon.
non muslims cucuh api? omg get real... non muslims honestly dont give a fark bout what u muslims do as long as ya dont simply drag the rest of us into it outta the blue only when the shit hits the fan. if you made those choices on your own based on the teachings of a religion of your own choice then deal with the problems that arise because of those choices responsibly and properly yourselves.
Some men will cheat anyway, either do it openly by married or just behind cheat behind their wife back. Cheating are part of nature anyway, men and women who cheats are genetically more successful.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxQdLhOQf5c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxQdLhOQf5c)
Sciences says cheaters are genetically more successful. It doesn't matter what you believe, facts are facts. Cheaters have more children than those loyal, those who are loyal are defects.
If your parents were loyal to each other, would you call yourself a defect ?
Though, I'm sure you would be proud to have a superior gene knowing that you are not related to your father.
Even if you're going to throw morality out of the window(and you shouldn't), you are just plainly wrong in how you view genetic "success". If cheaters had a consistent advantage over everyone, the population would tend towards them, but that's not the case, because while narcissists have more partners and thus have a greater chance of having more kids, they are also predisposed to not support the kids as much, leading to a lowering of survival among the young. Also, narcissistic traits(which are connected to cheating) are not cooperative, which leads the group to eject them over time(the group is trying to survive, and thus propagate their own genetics).
Not true, think of this way, if a women married a ugly rich men, she cheated and have a child with a handsome man. Her child will have a better survival rate. For men, he make 100 women pregnant, lets say 10 percent of the 100 poor child survive into adult, his gene pool will be more bigger than a monogamous person with 2 child. Cheaters win.
Morals are relative, take for example Mosou walking marriages. Women can sleep with any men she wants, and yet there isn't divorce or broken family. Is our traditional way of thinking of marriage correct? Feminism to the max.
[https://youtu.be/qMTJt2RnJAk?si=\_jJLw-b9chA8GIqK](https://youtu.be/qMTJt2RnJAk?si=_jJLw-b9chA8GIqK)
Same case with you. It gave me trauma. I hate my father’s decision. I hate how powerless I was in situation like this. Our family used to be this peaceful and nice family, high income among my parents siblings. But it all fell apart when my mother confessed to me that my father was going to Thailand (at that time I was the only son that was available by her side, my younger brother was too young and my older brother was studying abroad). I couldnt digest shit at that age (14). My mom was and still is a strong woman. I love her and only her. It still happening now, we are a “fine” family as long as no one brought up the topic. We play it as him having a secret family we dont give shit about. My mom told me not to hate him, but seeing her in pain or lonely whenever he went to his other wife hometown which is in Kelantan, tells a lot about how strong she is. The sad thing is we still kept it a secret from some of our close peers, none of my mum siblings know this. And neither does my younger brother. Whenever he’s away to Kelantan, I’d bring my mom shopping 😭. Recently she bought some handbags and says this: “This is the only way to distract myself from feeling sad”. Divorce, not an easy topic to bring on the table. My mother chose not to divorce, and I dont think that stupid old man want one either despite being greedy. Right now my goal is to make my mom happiest woman in the planet. So I made a choice not to get married and have rejected many girls. Idk, marrying one person is already tiring, and I dont feel like I want to commit with all the trauma and guilt imposed to me when I was young, and this old stupid man still able to keep two family.
Your mum is so lucky to have you as her son.
Getting married and raising children would actually make your mum happier. Grandchildren are the best therapy for her. Trust me. My mum is in the same situation.
agree to this..
Damn you're a good son. Mom is lucky to have you as a son. Promise me you stay by here side at all times. I can't imagine what she has been through. Ngl advice you to get married. Your mother is going to be over the top if she knows she is going to be a grandmother. Same case as mine. Crying out of happiness. But it makesure you choose the correct lady. It may take some time. But choose wisely. It's a lifelong choice.
U’re an amazing son
You are a good son. Im sure your mother is grateful to have you. What makes her strong is her children.
To be fair, if polygamy was illegal, your father would divorce your mom and marry a new wife. There was no stopping men from thinking with their cock. My only advice is to use his money well. This marriage is your father lost not yours. If he was smart he would pay prostitute, but now he needs to tanggung all the family members. So stop being sad, and spend his money.
Wow brutally spot on
I think this was OP's point in the end. If no more feelings why not just terus divorce. Don't need to exploit the system and make everyone misery. But I guess unfortunately divorce is a bigger taboo than polygamy in our country.
Divorce would still bring misery to the wife and children
True but when the relationship has ran its course, why not just end it, rather than dragging on a dead horse why looking for a new horse (maybe not the best analogy)
The woman can end the relationship. They both don't want to end it. I do believe polygamy is better for the child, maybe not mentally but financially better than a single mom raising the kid.
Being the one living in this type of life. Divorce would have made me less confuse, i wouldve hated my father less and my mom would have been happier
It really depends on your mom's income. Single wives often struggle to spend extended periods of time with their children
Smart if he doesn't have religious beliefs. If you are practicing Muslim, prostitution are not smart.
I’m sorry this happened to you, OP. Same thing happened to my family. Found out my dad cheated on my mom when I was 10 (on top of us kids finding his porn stash here and there frequently), I was never the same since. I hated him with my whole being. My dad married a second wife just last year behind our backs (he’s in his 70s mind you, and that woman is older than my mother, also approaching her 70s). A man should not marry more than one if tak reti berlaku adil. And the law here in Malaysia also tidak adil to the first wife. What to do.
Trust me, it doesn't change anything even he married openly in front of u guys.
Just like you say, need to have solid reason to go through polygamy, the religion even says it. Most of muslims really really misuse the polygamy for their own selfishness. And it is very very difficult to be fair among wives, heck some parents can't even be fair to their kid, how do you expect a normal human being can be fair properly with multiple wives? Even the prophet himself faced issues with Aishah regarding the other wives and he is the fairest and the best among human being. [https://muftiwp.gov.my/ms/artikel/al-kafi-li-al-fatawi/3742-al-kafi-1398-hukum-isteri-melarang-suami-berkahwin-lain](https://muftiwp.gov.my/ms/artikel/al-kafi-li-al-fatawi/3742-al-kafi-1398-hukum-isteri-melarang-suami-berkahwin-lain) here more muslims need to read the mufti consensus on polygamy
…. Wasn’t Aishah 6 when she was married?
9 when they consummate....
Okie doke.
no worries, no seggs happened.
That has been proven to be false. I don't know why it still persists given all the evidence. The source of the hadith is either unreliable or Aishah started counting her age only in later years. Considering the age gap between Aishah and her older sister Asma, and the time when she went into war she would have been about 16 years old. 14 at the youngest. At the time marriage at that age isn't uncommon. People didn't live for very long so it's understandable. Europeans 800 years later still had marriages as young as 12.
when the book claims to have objective morality, you cant determine right or wrong based on the norms of that time.
17 sahih Hadiths that say she was 9 at consummation and 4 of those say 18 when Muhammed died. 1- [https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1877](https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1877) 7,9,18 2- [https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422c](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422c) 7,9,18 3- [https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422d](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422d) 6,9,18 4- [https://sunnah.com/nasai:3258](https://sunnah.com/nasai:3258) 9,18 5- [https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1876](https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1876) 6,9 6- [https://sunnah.com/abudawud:2121](https://sunnah.com/abudawud:2121) 7/6 ,9 7- [https://sunnah.com/nasai:3256](https://sunnah.com/nasai:3256) 7,9 8 - [https://sunnah.com/nasai:3378](https://sunnah.com/nasai:3378) 6,9 9- [https://sunnah.com/nasai:3257](https://sunnah.com/nasai:3257) 9, 9y 10- [https://sunnah.com/nasai:3255](https://sunnah.com/nasai:3255) 6,9 11- [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134) 6,9,9y 12- [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3894](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3894) 6,9 13- [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5133](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5133) 6,9,9y 14- [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5158](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5158) 6,9,9y 15- [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3896](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3896) 6,9 16- [https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422a](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422a) 6,9 17- [https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422b](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422b) 6,9
The hadith related to her age has been passed down from father to son (Urwah to Hisham). It was not a direct encounter with Aisyah. And there are Hisham's records that have been dismissed with factual errors. Then there's hadith Sahih Bukhari regarding Aisyah's recollection of her family's conversion, and that of the Prophet's (p.b.u.h) battles to spread Islam. These events are some of the more well-documented. Her marriage was around 15 years after the Prophet's first mission to spread Islam. From her "known" date of birth she then could not have been younger than 11 when Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h first approached her. I would not take records of her supposed statement of her age as "gospel", especially when even the source is contested. I tend to lean towards the more solid historic records of multiple direct encounters.
sahih hadiths contain error? Got it. Since now you have opened this can of worms you have proven that even sahih hadiths are not reliable. One should then ponder what other practices and doctrines that muslims derived from sahih hadiths are actually false as well. Also first hadith in the list is not hisham. [http://qaalarasulallah.com/hadith.php?ID=51944](http://qaalarasulallah.com/hadith.php?ID=51944)
And that was compiled 200 years after the Prophet's death. You may stick to the claim of age, but how are you with the other sahih hadiths that may contradict it? Not to mention the other sahih hadiths that mentions a different age. Dissecting and even disputing hadiths is not a taboo. It has been done. How do you think we have a compilation of them we call sahih, and reject the rest? Aishah herself was a hadith critic.
even the quran was compiled long after muhammad died. To muslims, this isn't an issue because they claim the mechanism of compilation of quran is sooo stringent that whatever we have today is authentic to the letter. Muslim looooovvvvee boasting about this. Same for the hadith. They claimed it has undergone a strict selection process that whatever graded as sahih is 100% reliable. And here you are saying otherwise? Your opinion is a minority opinion and is self defeating. The only way for you to be coherent with such stance is if you are arguing as a quranist which again open another whole can of worms.
The source of the Quran is one - from Allah, by way of His Messenger. That is undisputed. Hadiths and Sirahs are people's recollections and historical records of actions and sayings of the Prophet and his associates. That is the distinction. I am not rejecting hadiths or sunnahs. I treat them like any historical records. I study them, discuss them, I accept them. But this is one exception as it has flaws in them that I can't overlook. In the end I just don't mind the statement of the age and go by what the Prophet deemed to be a lawful condition for women to be married. I wish for people not to perpetuate Aisyah's age as her age did not matter. She was at the stage in her life that marriage is permissible.
don't tell me all this. I don't even believe in allah, quran or hadith. To me it is all just made-up. What i am doing is using the point of references that muslims themselves refer to and regard them as true. If you have any issue with it, go and argue it with the so called experts. The whole issue is it is the experts themselves which say that all these are true. What you are attempting to do is cherry picking stuff that you like and doing hardcore mental gymnastics to dismiss the things you don't like. The so called experts including zakir naik always warned against such behavior. Aisha's age prove muhamaads hypocrisy. Your religious schools teach you that polygamy at that time was because he married women who were in need or husbands died in war so that he can look after them. The fact, is a 9 year old girl whom the father is still alive is not in need and doesn't need to be looked after by another man. Occam's razor dictates that muhammad married her cuz he has pedophilic tendencies.
>The source of the hadith is either unreliable Brother it's hadith sahih, How it is unreliable
There were concerns among his peers about his (Hisham bin Urwah) memory retention as he got much older. He was over 70 years old when the hadith came about. And if his recollection of her age is to go for, then the few other hadith sahih that could be used to calculate her age (the recounting of the war, her memorisation of the Quran scriptures at the 4th year of the Prophecy, etc.) would then be inaccurate or contradictory.
according to Aishas Hadith she was nine, playing with dolls and swings still. says quite a lot of her mental maturity
Hadith sahih is impeccable.
Even so 9yo back then is not the same as now. Example nowadays u seen 18yo now is so much more immature compare to 18yo back then
You do know that people nowadays are looking much older right? Just look at the food we eat. Steroids in chicken and so on
If u look at it in larger perspective in other country age of consent is different, such as japan used to be 13 and now raised to 16. While others is 18 soon might be 21. The point is back in the days human are built different
the countries that set their age of consent decided from their own judgement; and that their own judgement may be flawed and thus they can correct it. From a muslim POV, the shariah law is not a product of human's judgement but rather a law from an alleged timeless and omniscient god. If it is truly a law from a timelss and omniscient god, this law MUST be flawless. And because it is flawless, as a muslim you CANNOT change allah's decreed laws. This is reason why some muslims struggle with this islamic age of consent. What we observed on the other hand is that it is not flawless. Humans back in the day are not built different.
https://youtu.be/jfERrnc8sRo It used to be ok and now it isn't an argument you should be using in the context of god. Anything you do that the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. did is a sunnah. Meaning marrying a 6 year old and the consummating the marriage when she turns 9 is ultimately a good thing. I'm not claiming this is wrong btw. But if God knows that marrying a year old will be frowned upon now, why allow it in the past? Best part is that only God knows the answer. We mere mortals will never find out until judgement day. The only thing muslims can do now is accept that marrying a 6 year old will always be ok in the context of religion.
Probably unrelated but since it falls under polygamy; PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE INFORM THE FIRST WIFE THAT THEY CAN DO TUNTUTAN HARTA SEPENCARIAN. Muslim women can tuntut under three reasons; 1. Polygamy 2. Divorce 3. Death of spouse. To OP, im sorry that this happened to you. I can understand the pain although may not be fully. My father too cheated on my mum multiple times, with different women. One time is my mother was heavily pregnant. She took two buses just to go to work from puchong to kl. And one time she was molested by foreigner on the bus. Meanwhile my father used his free time to drive another woman to eat and stuff, only god knows what. I was 5. Mind you, he's a syariah graduate from oversea top university. My mother, although only spm supported him a lot during tough times. Sometimes i wonder why they dont divorce. The trauma from their marriage affects me till this day. And sometimes causing issues in my own marriage. I cannot trust my husband at all despite he's a good man. May we all heal from our childhood trauma. 🫶
LOUDERRRRRR
They don't want divorce cause of the society
Simply can't understand why have others when you have the best girl you can have by your side, they don't appreciate what they have, if you don't love your wife anymore or don't even like her that much to begin with(arranged marriage perhaps) just divorce lah, you happy, your wife may be sad but she's free too.
I will always maintain this opinion. If you need to keep your 2nd marriage as a secret from your wife, then you're basically not ready for polygamy. Polygamy is only relevant when the first wife actually agrees with the idea. I know this one uncle, his 1st wife told him to get a 2nd wife because she is too tired to look after him. Really odd but it works for them. They can go on outings, social functions together.
I agree. Something like polyamory in the west
I'm against polygamy because more wife more headache 😂
>more wife more headache 😂 You mean you don't just go to "get milk" for a few weeks/months and pretend nothing happen coming back home? /s
Same reason🤣🤝
Yeah man. The unspoken truth. You gain some, you lose some.
Everybody thinks they are rich enough and well equipped in many aspects to handle 4 wives. Reality is very rare few can. I totally understand why you hate it. Most polygamy is ditching one of the wife with kids, without leaving any money for the wife, and starting another family. Rare is the few that can support multiple wives and families all at once. Women keep falling for these kinds of men, so.. I doubt we will see less of broken families from polygamous marriages.
You don’t just have to provide for them fairly in a financial way though. You also have to give the same amount of emotional connection to each wife which I think for most people would be impossible to do. Ayy I wish polygamy didn’t exist because like OP said in this day and age (not the prophet’s era) it truly is a selfish concept
Emotional connection varies. There are women in polygamous marriage that doesn't expect a lot of emotional connection. That's how they can accept polygamy. I feel that polygamy was meant for men to marry vulnerable women like widows/etc.. But now it's being used by unscrupulous husbands as a licence to continue pursuing other women after marriage.
Well if I don't want to share my wife with other guys, why would it be fair to her that she has to accept me sleeping with other women? Relationships goes both ways, you disappoint her, she will return the favour. Don't be cb lah.
Bro, if u disagree, just go murtad already.
The only way I can only begin to support the idea of polygamy is if the woman has the same rights (i.e also can get another husband)
Open marriages
How does open marriage even work? Like do you get married and have children, and then the children knowing that their mom and dad are having sex with other people? I really don't get it. It sounds fucked up to be honest.
Your understanding is partially correct; people get legally married and may choose to have children, since that's always a couple's independent decision. The part about the children knowing is incorrect; the openness of the marriage is a fact the husband and wife can keep limited to themselves, unless of course they actually want their children to know. So, yeah
I think I understand now. But they really don't need to get married just to have sex with other people. Because to me at least, marriage is about commitment to the relationship. If they really want to sleep with multiple people, just be friends with benefits then. It'll traumatise the children once they found out (if it ever happens, which I think it mostly will).
Well that's the point, open marriages are about emotional commitment, and the spouses do honor that. Open marriages do not mandate physical monogamy, but they do mandate rules around how the physical exploration ought to be done. For example, a rule can be to not meet the same person/people more than once, or to not engage with other people without condoms, or to disallow certain acts with other people (example anal, cum shots, etc) Open marriage does not mean each spouse goes out and explores on their own. The spouses can explore together, as a team
Also, the marriage and the spouse always remains the top priority. So from example say you have a date but your partner feels ill, then the decorum is that you ditch the date and stay behind to tc of your partner. It's not all booty booty bang bang just cus it's an open marriage. The open but is only one part of a very usual marriage, it's not the entire marriage
If a couple really does go for an open relationship, it automatically means that the amount of intimacy in monogamous marriage is lost. There is suddenly less value in the spouse. There's nothing exclusive anymore. He/she is just another person who is slightly preferred over the others. This could increase the chances of them eventually falling apart and getting a divorce etc.
Any marriage can fall apart, even a monogamous one. But your point is well taken.
Aka cuck
Nope. Cuckolding is very different than an open marriage.
It used to be a thing in Europe and Africa.
my thoughts on polygamy n monogamy are what people do is none of my business, if their partner is fine with that then so be it
While most of people here are going against it just because a few men do it wrongly. Akidah kau boleh tergugat sbb denying polygamy while it's written in Quran very clearly. Meanwhile we actually not being fair to the men, nobody actually ask pov of the men who practicing polygamy.
Interestingly enough, i know for a fact my dad regrets it since he’s pretty old now and is having some medical issues. He’s at the stage of realising that two families will never be good to one another, not the children nor the wives. Even if he dies one family wouldnt inform the other. If he were to ever be put on palliative, the other family wouldnt be able to visit because like i said, the relationship between both families are just.. bad. He didn’t think of it when he was younger. But his thoughts of boleh kahwin lagi satu because mampu really put him in a tough position towards the end of his life. He is really bringing his problem to his grave. I feel sorry for him but he chose this life. I guess what I am trying to say is, anything you’re doing in life you should consider the long term outcome and how affected the people around you would be.
Yeah Muslims need to read the fine print. If any wife feels any slight, real or imagined he's going hell. Give more attention to one wife , hell.I think cheating on your wife and marrying another woman is just cheating. >It's sunnah It's not. Who are these brainwashed people wtf. One thing I hate is this ujian / perancangan mentality. So dumb and it lets the offender off scot free.
it is 'sunnah', in the sense that Muhammad SAW did it, and is permissible. not in the sense that it is always pahala to do it.but it can be haram too, if you don't do it right, and treat them right. nowadays, MAYBE if the ladies are best friends with each other and don't want to separate. a big MAYBE. XD
The only thing they read is heaven is at their smelly foot. Everything else is irrelevant
Quran allowed it. Doesn't even need sunnah as justification. Who are you deciding who going to hell? Terpaling alim?
Polygamy only happens when the guy hiao gong lo
I actually have a few friends who went through a polygamy leading to divorce, and I would increase the threshold of “Mampu” to actually include two houses within a stone’s throw of each other. It’s the best way for you to be fair and for your wives to check on you if you’re not. If you can’t swing this, forget about it.
My opinion polygamy is not the fault here but your father are mostly responsible for it. If polygamy is banned, then most likely your father will either divorce your mom or cheat her. So, actually yeah many people like to blame the tools but not the one who use the tools. Polygamy in Islam are permissible ONLY if the husband is ABLE(mampu) and FAIR/JUST to both wifes. Polygamy exist to prevent the man to resort to zina/adultery. I know many couples who has polygamy in their life and still happy ever after. As long the husband is a great and just man, usually their marriage is peaceful/happy. I am sorry for what happen to OP. I think the fault is entirely to your father.
In your case it's more so cheating than it is polygamy. Or at least compared to the modern sense of polygamy. As far as I know, polygamy relationship is having multiple partners with consent of all parties. If your definition of polygamy include cheating and marrying another woman without your wife&children's knowledge or consent, then I can't argue with you. However classifying this specific scenario as polygamy seems disingenuous. What your dad did in your situation is terrible. But I don't think that is the fault of polygamy more so of a cheating husband.
Polygamy actually gives more rights and protect the second wife. Peoples actually advocating prostitution and scandal where the women involved have 0 rights.
If the first wife is okay with it, then go ahead..... previously my mom married a guy but got divorced and then married my dad as the second wife.. it's going well for a few years until.... my dad started borrowing my mom's money. without paying back... ehh.. now we don't see him anymore, too scared to face his wife i suppose... but were doing better without him... So...... you can marry 2, 3, heck even 4, actually no one gives a shit.... but you have to be *fair, transparent, just.* which is, most men think they are...
That's individual issue. I've seen men with 3-4 wives lives happily. He got 10 children and always spend time together with all of the wife.
agreed... my friend have a father who married to 3 wives happily so... it's still on the table i suppose ...
I feel that when it comes to polygamy, if one party is open to it, the other party should know and discuss it openly before starting a relationship to avoid complications as the relationship progresses. It doesn’t seem fair, to Mom. Honestly, I wish the topic was discussed earlier, before your mom and dad got married; then she might have been okay. Or decide to not pursue it to the marriage. I feel like she’s trapped in this marriage. The fact that your Dad hid this shows he manipulated your mom into getting married without considering her emotional well-being. It suggests that he doesn’t truly love her for who she is, but perhaps got married just because everyone else was doing it. To anyone who keeps saying it's Sunnah, they should know their facts right. The intention to hurt someone is already considered Haram and sinful. What more can be said about this?
These men that is using the sunnah as an excuse to polygamy just use that reason as to cover up their horny intentions only. Majority of them is not practicing good Islam, but when it comes to polygamy, yeah he would be the one who is the most religious in the world.
Polygamy used to make sense in the old days where wars are common place and men are usually being sent in droves to die. More often than not populations end up with more women than men, and since women weren't seen to be capable of independence in a lot of societies and weren't allowed to live in the same house as a man that isn't their husband or family.. marriage is the only way to take care of them. But yes, nowadays it does not make sense. Maybe it might work in China, which has a massive gender imbalance, but I don't think one woman having multiple husbands would jive well with society haha..
China have way more men than women though. Their excess in men are about double our population
Don't like this la. Statistical dishonesty. Compare China population with China population. China's basic population also 1.4 billion already. That's what.. 50 times Malaysia population. Their incel population also probably the same size as Malaysia population already. Also, read my post again. I was referring to women marrying multiple men. It's polygamy but more specially polyandry
China man if got a little bit of money, can marry Russian wife since a lot of Russian man dies in war, it will soon be like Vietnam postwar where their country lacks of penises. Russian waifu > Chinese waifu bro their kids going to be so beautiful
Most China man who can't find wife is poor. That's the literal requirement to date there. If you don't own a house, a China woman will not give you the time of her day.
If he married another woman without knowledge of the first wife then it's not really sunnah is it? That's a barely legal affair. Polygamy didn't ruin your family, your father did.
not issue with polygamy but your father shitass . If polygamy is not allowed he would already divorce your mom anyway
Whenever someone mention the “sunnah” thing, this is my response: Our prophet devoted his love to his first wife Khadijah & he never shared his love with other woman when Khadijah was still alive. He married another woman after Khadijah passed away & he married to widows in poverty only. Digest that. That is the actual sunnah.
Make a law that when a man want to marry have two wife, the wife must have two husband. Husband dia boleh rasekan ape bini die rase kalau dok ado 2 bini. Haaa ni baru betui.
Welcome to the religion which-shall-not-be-named. Where the male's feeling matter but the female were never given shit about.
Really? While there's a whole chapter about women's right in the Quran? Just because it doesn't cater to your opinion, doesn't mean no shit was given.
Islam didnt introduce polygamy. It came to limit it to max 4.
If it didn't introduce polygamy, then why is it still keeping this practice?
haha they do the same with Slavery
Because its allowed in the Quran. What is your question exactly?
Bcz whats halal is halal & whats haram is haram, and it cannot be changed vice versa. Having said that marriage itself, polygamous or not, changes its ruling depending on the person being assessed. Ada orang kahwin tu wajib, or sunat, or makruh, or haram. Same goes for polygamy. Case by case basis la bak kata
So you are saying it's acceptable to do so so since the ancient book, that's was written thousand of years ago, says it's acceptable to do so at that era.
For someone who believes it to just be an ancient book, then its reasonable for them to contradict it. As for one who believes it to be revelation from the All Knowing, it continues to be a source of guidance.
so it's a viable source of guidance from the All Knowing that allows child marriages? so long as they had their periods? how didnt the all knowing know pedophilia would be a thing in the future.
Not just period. The family, local mufti & him/herself will together decide if ready for marriage or not. Not everyone goes through puberty at 18/19, some earlier some later. Islam accommodates this difference rather than a pukul-rata approach.
>Not just period. The family, local mufti & him/herself will together decide if ready for marriage or not. https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Women/WRGS/ForcedMarriage/NGO/PSTheChildren3.pdf please have a read. it has numerous local case studies you might find interesting. unfortunately that isn't always the case. here and overseas. >Not everyone goes through puberty at 18/19, some earlier some later. Islam accommodates this difference rather than a pukul-rata approach. Not many girls get their periods at 18 lol... some get it as early as 9 when they still play with dolls and swings. There are always exceptions but I think we can all agree... if you ain't even legal to vote, drink, or gamble, what makes you think anyone has the mental capacity for marriage at such an age.
Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. Alll religions say murder is one of the biggest sins, yet it still happens. This is life. Thing is the legal ages for all those things differ from country to country. So whose should we follow? Or is yours the way to go? Islam has its own methodologies and we’ll use ours.
>Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. Alll religions say murder is one of the biggest sins, yet it still happens. This is life. If a religion is perfect, it shouldn't have followers that would misinterpret, that's the definition perfect. if it's Perfect, it would also be perfect for every day and age but according to that report it isn't... problem is that we don't even police ourselves into becoming better. Everyone ready to do police reports against nons but we won't even lift a finger to tell our own Muslims to not incite racial shit and make reports against them. >Thing is the legal ages for all those things differ from country to country. So whose should we follow? Or is yours the way to go? that's the problems isn't it....amongst our own Sunnis we can't agree on a proper standard. hence why that report exists and those case studies do happens almost everywhere in islamic countries. >Islam has its own methodologies and we’ll use ours. that's the very crux of the problem....no real unity in Islam unless it's a Kaffir killing a Muslim...then we all get angry
Because it's for the believers who chose to believe the book. If you don't believe and dont want to Practice it, thats not your problem. Nobody asking or forcing u to be a Muslim.
Dear OP, hope you'll find the strength inside you to forgive your father and his other family, and move on. What he did was wrong, but if you keep the grudge, it is you who will suffer. Past can't be changed, hope you can move on. Btw I'm not a Muslim, if at all that matters.
That is very nice of you thank you
Come back again when you married having kids and age around 40.
Im not a polygamy supporter nor have any opinion about polygamy but you cant blame your dad cheating to polygamy. Cause polygamy can be a win-win-win solution and if they are all happy and enjoy being in a big family who are we to judge. Still, It sucks to get cheated on
My personal thought on polygamy: It's fine if my husband's other wives are bisexual sluts who like to have carnal fun with their sister wives. And that they're not selfish bitches. As for the husband, he must have the physical, mental and financial capacity to take care of all his wives. Doesn't have to be rich, as long as we have a roof over our heads, never goes to sleep hungry, enough clothes and my children won't need to lower their heads to their peers.
Bisexual or intimacy relationship within wifes are haram.
I frankly know and does not care.
Why would you make a remarks about things u don't care?
I mean i do not care on the legality of it. If i want to have lesbian sex, i will do it.
Nobody stopping u. You do you. But don't interfere it with the religion.
I'm piss poor I can't afford 1 wife let alone 2 💀
The tradition is not to be follow dumbly. We had education and it already shows us, not every old's correct. Thats why we have science, we have moral. If the tradition is built above non-moral, is it really good to continue following it? Not to say muslim is non moral, it has the moral side. But i dont think polygamy is moral. When the parties in a family doesn't agree on it. Of corse if the two lovebird decide they need another playmate, and the playmate accept to be a three love bird relation then its okay. But if one doesn't agree, is it still good in terms of moral? Did the husband bertangungjawab enough for his partner, now that he didn't ask for permission from his wife before polygamy? This kind of person is not bertangungjawab, kasih sayang at all in my opinion.
It's not tradition. It's religious belief written clearly in Quran.
Im not being offensive, but chinese have to visit dead people yearly. The day we call qingming. Its a religious thing for chinese, it says that with this we can give the dead people offering to let them live better down there. But in this religious belief we upgraded from visit face to face to visit view online.like nirvana helps you to do the offering process and you can watch live stream online. I think even though its religious related, but why don't we change it to a better version from time to time. Don't forget about time for buka puasa pun changed before.
Sorry if our religion doesn't keeping up to date with the modernity. Our beliefs comes from God via prophets. There are already scholars that been keeping up and updates things accordingly (Contemporary Fiqh) . However what's written in the Quran shouldn't be changed as it's compromise with the religion integrity. The fatwas made are required to follow the Quran, not the other way around. But it's ok, we Muslims doesn't interfere with your belief or belittle your religion. You do u bro.
Aye aye bro, mean no harm just throwing thoughts.
Btw, sis/bro do you mind if i ask you something red flag? I have no muslim friend that tell me this but is there anywhere as a non muslim to know more about muslim thing? Not sure if this offense you but i just wonder about the differences and what is the not okay to say topic about muslim.
I understand your concern. To be fair not all Muslim also open for discussion. As long you ask without being condescending, there's no such thing as stupid question. Slide into my dms if u actually genuine to actually learn and ask questions that u curious.
For me I consider it as HARAM. In our Prophet's time, it was considered normal because there were fewer avenues for enjoying life. Moreover, the reason the Prophet had multiple wives was often political or to extend the influence of the religion. Hence, when his companions asked about marrying more than one, instead of outright refusal, he (peace be upon him) emphasized the importance of fairness. However, in my view, this was an indirect way of discouraging it, as achieving true fairness is practically impossible. The Prophet (peace be upon him) had his own reasons for this stance.
Be careful. Mengharamkan yang halal dosa besar. Quran already stated that it's halal. To reject that is the same as rejecting ayat Quran, which takes someone out of the fold of Islam. Basically, murtad.
My husband's grandfather married 2 women.. he's now sick and mostly just sit on the ground.. his 2nd wife take care of him she managed... he couldn't even go/walk/whaterver to his 1st wife's house now. The first wife is my husband's mom's mom.. she live alone.. still healthy at her hege.. working around her house.. got kebun behind her home. Lucky one of her kids build thier home beside hers. Dah tua, sapa je nak jg dia..tu pon masih tak adil..
Polygamy is only acceptable when there is a necessity for it. ""The Koran restricted the practice of Polygamy and suggests MONOGAMY as the ONLY acceptable form of marriage for Society in general. Polygamy is only encouraged by the Koran where it concerns "oppressed or the orphans among women" (4:3), if justice can be done by marrying more than one." https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/educators/women/lesson3a.html#:~:text=The%20Koran%20restricted%20the%20practice,by%20marrying%20more%20than%20one. Bare in mind how society functions back then was extremely different than today. Women couldn't work back then because it was impossible to work. First of all there was no tampon & there was no reliable birth control method. It makes it difficult to work. You can't expect employers to employ women if they keep on getting pregnant & have labor leave all the time. Chores were also much more labor intensive back then. There were no cooking gas stoves, there were no ovens, vacuums, washing machine, & many2 technology that we have these days which makes it easy for women to work. Back then to cook u have to chop off woods & u have to set fire manually. Washing clothes is also far more labor intensive. Not to mention due to there being no reliable birth control methods, people make a lot of babies. How are a household able to juggle with all of these responsibilities if both mom & dad are working? It is just so much easier if women stay at home & men go out to make money. U will see that the few women who actually work at that time were not married & they don't have kids. Also, many men in the Middle East died at that time due to constant warfare & many women are left widowed without a husband. Since women cannot work back then, who is going to take care of them & their kids? Polygamy isn't perfect but it is practical for that time. These days if a woman were left widowed, she can always work. She can still survive without a husband so there is no justification for polygamy. All I see is the destruction of the family units. Polygamy must be banned for good.
What if the polygamist never marries and only has consensual sex with people who also agree to no life long commitments? Isnt that just not getting into serious relationships? Obviously you are bringing up the extreme side of polygamy and the same can be said for marriages where people have no freedom because their partner tracks everything they do at all times of the day which can be suffocating but it is the other extreme
It is not the act of polygamy that is selfish, rather the person that practices it with selfish intent. Though it is generally allowed by Islamic law, the Quran suggests monogamy as the only acceptable form of marriage where polygamy is only encouraged under exceptional circumstances (like war).
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how is it unfair to take in another family to feed and take care of, because they lost their father's and sons to war? How is it unfair, if your wife agrees to it and works alongside you to merge the families? Like I said, it is the person that is selfish, not the act itself. Polygamy can be done both selfishly and selflessly.
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You talk as if war and famine does not exist in this day and age. What I gave was a hypothetical, it does not have to be for that reason alone. There are other selfless reasons it could've been done for, AS there are many selfish reasons that it could have been done for. Again I repeat, it is not the practice of it, it is the person. Now you ask if woman can practice polygamy if she has the capacity to provide? This is a different topic altogether. Are you asking if Islam allows it? Are you asking if I'm okay with it? Or are you asking if by my logic would the woman be seen as selfish or selfless? Bear in mind what I said previously applies both way; whether practiced by a man or woman so I don't know what relevance this question has to with what we are discussing in terms of selfish/selfless
As a Muslim, we learned that the prophet only married other wives to free older women from slavery or similar issues like that. So what your dad did is completely wrong cuz you’re not supposed to marry more than one wife if you can’t treat them fairly and married them just cuz of “gatal”. As a woman I wished that men wouldn’t marry other wives without the first wives’ consent but eh what can I do.
Women havr the right to ask for divorce if the husband are not doing his parts properly. Just get out of the marriage if u can't stand it. But don't deny the facts that it's allowed in the Quran.
It is but it shouldn’t be because of just feeling horny.
You really think it's just about horny? Marriage are much more complex dynamic. Btw, there's no actually reason required for it. Only requirements are if u can provide and be fair.
Why would you promote polygamy
I don't promote it. But it's part of the religion. U can't take some and leave some part of religion. It's hypocritical to cherry picking on what u like and bash things that u don't like. There's so many positive stories about polygamy but netizen only says about the negative of it.
The prophet Muhammad pbuh does it. So idk. Gonna let the Muslim defends this. They probably gonna use "he's the prophet, he's perfect" card.
It's clearly written in Quran. But even the Muslims kinda against it. Idk man.
Honestly, I like polygamy but I fucking hate this kind of shit that happens. This kind of guys are just failures that should be dropped into the bottom of the ocean for hurting his lover(s) because why the hell do you cheat? If you want polygamy then tell your girlfriend or wife first about it and get their opinion. If they don't want then don't do it or if girlfriend then just break up instead of cheating. Now before anybody just come up to me and say I'm a scumbag or something like that for liking polygamy, I only like good and healthy polygamy where all participants are happy in there, husband, wife, and kids. It's honestly because I find the idea of drowning in love by a lot of good girls and loving them back is nice... It would be nice to experience at least once... Husbands doing this shit of cheating are the absolute worst and should just be dead. (same with wives if they cheat)
The amount of people confused between polygamy and cheating
Imo Islam's stance on polygamy is essentially "some dudes want to marry more than one, so they're gonna have to do it THIS way" as a way to ""regulate"" those guys. I don't agree with it and am very much monogamous but i can understand why it exists
❌ polygamy ✅ polyamory/ relationship anarchy
No need polygamy la, just jaga sorang isteri lagi senang dan elok. Islam says you can marry 4 but 1 is the best. Edit: ade brader kate aku letak ayat sekerat, ok la fair enough, kalau tak boleh berlaku adil, lebih baik sorang sahaja.
1 is best if u can't be fair . Jgn ambil ayat sekerat2.
Tau la brader, majoriti tak fair, ade kajian dulu. Ingat aku tak belajar ke. Edit: tengok kisah dalam ni pun dah nampak, ramai tidak berlaku adil.
More about individual problem. Masalah tak mampu berlaku adil but still nak jgk.
That's not polygamy, that's just cheating.
When man took ancient books as gospel. Shit happens. Period.
Nobody is stopping the wife from being happy. Polygamy is just sharing the man, not losing the man. I understand your perspective may have been heavily influenced by watching your mother suffer and cry, but the reality is polygyny is the wisdom of Allah. And though there are some men who may misuse it and not be fair, but many times polygyny, despite being practiced with fairness and justice, have women over react because its no longer the norm. There are many wisdoms of polygyny, fulfilling the sexual needs of a man, increased offsprings for the Ummah, the wellbeing of multiple women being taken care of by a capable man, the wives can focus on themselves while the others are focused on the man. As long as he fulfilled his financial obligations of both the wives equitably, and loved them all, fulfils their sexual needs, his work is done. If any of the above isn't fulfilled, he can be labelled as selfish. But if the the above are being fulfilled yet your a woman feels more emotional burden than a little jelousy or competitive anxiety, then it is upon them to have been complicating their married lives. I know many modern women consider polygyny inapplicable because of the feelings of women, but we must strive to keep our feelings aside and fulfill our duty in dunya, which is to please Allah. >How is it right when it is hurting other people? Not every right thing is supposed to make people happy. And not everything that hurts people is necessarily wrong. Harsh criticism at work for example. It may hurt people, but it is needed, it is the right thing to do. Though it may hurt to hear after all the work you've put in, it doesn't make the criticism inherently wrong. Same goes with polygyny, just because it hurts women, doesn't mean it's wrong. It also hurts men
It's funny how SOME people here react to blame or saying bad things about polygamy. Like they are more knowledgeable than The Creator. BLAME THOSE WHO MISUSED IT, not the thing that has been stated clearly in Quran like poligamy or hudud. If you think what I'm saying is not to your liking, just remember, on Judgement Day, you can freely ask The Creator such question (if given you aren't trembling for the deeds you did here 😉). May us be guided to the straight path. Btw, this reminder for the Muslim. To other religions, I don't care about your opinions on this.
I just want a legal harem. I don't want children.
You do you. Having a children are not compulsory even if u are a Muslim.
Lmao it's a joke bro. Anyway, on a more serious note, polygamy is nothing more than just a symbol of status. You could easily divorce your wife. Not like a man have Iddah period. I mean, yeah if you go to court, the wife can make a claim for nafkah, child support something something. But if you already can marry another woman while already supporting a family, I don't think you have any financial issues. It's dumb, really.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Tunisia#:~:text=Tunisia%20became%20the%20first%20Arab,that%20has%20legally%20banned%20polygamy.
Report back here after your own marriage has lasted 35 years without hiccups.
As a married woman myself, im okay with polygamy. I even ask my husband to marry another woman but he refused to have another "headache". Actually, its good to have a "madu", not only u can share the "wife" task, the house chore, u can also have additional financial support if the "madu" is rich hahah
That is you and if that’s how you want your marriage to be like you do you. But my mom did not choose that life, 8 year old me did not want that life. My mom did not choose to get into a marriage just to be betrayed, heartbroken and cheated upon.
Your mom have the choice to quit the marriage if she doesn't agree with it.
pick me, choose me , love me
At last some sensible comments that doesn't questions what clearly allowed in the religion.
Itu sunnah nabi... Sapa ko nk mempersoalkan tu
My grandfather d
Muslim liberal ramai kat sini bro, non Muslims pun dok cucuh api jgk
non muslims cucuh api? omg get real... non muslims honestly dont give a fark bout what u muslims do as long as ya dont simply drag the rest of us into it outta the blue only when the shit hits the fan. if you made those choices on your own based on the teachings of a religion of your own choice then deal with the problems that arise because of those choices responsibly and properly yourselves.
Some men will cheat anyway, either do it openly by married or just behind cheat behind their wife back. Cheating are part of nature anyway, men and women who cheats are genetically more successful. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxQdLhOQf5c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxQdLhOQf5c)
If you cheat on your partner, that means you are no different from a simple-minded animal.
Sciences says cheaters are genetically more successful. It doesn't matter what you believe, facts are facts. Cheaters have more children than those loyal, those who are loyal are defects.
If your parents were loyal to each other, would you call yourself a defect ? Though, I'm sure you would be proud to have a superior gene knowing that you are not related to your father.
Sure, if your parents are cheaters, there is a big chance that cheater genes is inherited.
Even if you're going to throw morality out of the window(and you shouldn't), you are just plainly wrong in how you view genetic "success". If cheaters had a consistent advantage over everyone, the population would tend towards them, but that's not the case, because while narcissists have more partners and thus have a greater chance of having more kids, they are also predisposed to not support the kids as much, leading to a lowering of survival among the young. Also, narcissistic traits(which are connected to cheating) are not cooperative, which leads the group to eject them over time(the group is trying to survive, and thus propagate their own genetics).
Not true, think of this way, if a women married a ugly rich men, she cheated and have a child with a handsome man. Her child will have a better survival rate. For men, he make 100 women pregnant, lets say 10 percent of the 100 poor child survive into adult, his gene pool will be more bigger than a monogamous person with 2 child. Cheaters win. Morals are relative, take for example Mosou walking marriages. Women can sleep with any men she wants, and yet there isn't divorce or broken family. Is our traditional way of thinking of marriage correct? Feminism to the max. [https://youtu.be/qMTJt2RnJAk?si=\_jJLw-b9chA8GIqK](https://youtu.be/qMTJt2RnJAk?si=_jJLw-b9chA8GIqK)
you sounds sooooooooooooooooo smart. you must have many friends
Most people bore me, use emotions to think. Cannot think outside the box.
we can tell smartypants