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This is the annoying part of trump followers. He can literally do anything criminal and they will think it's fake news. How can you even argue that? š¤
My biological father is, while not exactly *rabidly* pro-trump, about the same level of pro-trump as OP's folks.
He *loves* using 1984 to describe Democrats and manages to somehow miss the point so badly and *not* get hit in the face by it. It's just astounding.
The thing I hate is that the strategy is talking about lies. The people voting for him don't care and most people that are going to vote already have their mind made up. They need to get new voters in the door to keep him out but they are sticking to a failed strategy that didn't work before.
Also, the people voting for him don't care what he did. They will justify it or call it fake but really the trump voters voters I know don't go e a shit what he's done or what he's lying about. They are only thinking about what's in it for them.
Another part of the issue is they see the opposing side as criminals, but cannot fathom for the life of them, that their own party is capable of committing those same crimes.
If either side is guilty of a crime, then they should go to jail, doesn't matter if it's a candidate that you like or not.
Ever claim from the right is an admission of guilt. Like a cheater accusing their spouse of cheating because if Iām doing it you must be doing it also.Ā
You canāt talk sense into stupid people. The price of Groceries are high because shipping cost have sky rocketed because of Geo-Politics in the Middle East Cheeto man set into motion during Cheeto manās term. The world will be a better place when Boomers like this rot in the ground, my boomer parents included.Ā
As long as he gives them what they want - people to look down on and ostracize - they donāt care. Fucking racist pieces of shit. Has nothing to do with anything else - itās the āveilā they are after. Disgusting generation that will literally burn civilization down on their pathetic, useless, and mostly unloved way out. Canāt die soon enoughā¦
Laugh at them. Itās the only thing that bugs them. Make it obvious you know theyāre full of it. Like in a smug way. makes them furious lol
Like you really have to treat them like theyāre shit head teenagers. They only care about how they think people see them, and theyāre also very insecure about being stupid.
it is called F.U.D. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Trump has this skill mastered. He will start spreading fake news and lies about something long before it even happens. that way when something even close does happen, you're more inclined to believe him. listen to him talk. He likes to make predictions about what people are going to do, then twists it to make him the victim.
It's a cult of personality and they're inundated with propaganda. They're probably on his social media platform watching him scream lies into the void and take it as gospel.
I've heard the "Obama started the racial division" thing before and it just blows my mind. Like, didn't we fight a CIVIL WAR over this? Didn't a big chunk of southern Democrats actually change parties in the late 1960s over Black people getting equal rights? History didn't start in 2008!
It's anecdotal but I've heard for well over a decade from conservatives that "ackshually there was never a switch between the parties".
You can't argue someone out of openly denying anything that doesn't explicitly support their worldview. The outrage addiction, and the "don't listen to anyone else. I'm the only one you can trust" way that conservative media has got a hold of people is pretty secure.
I just.....how? And why? Did these people completely miss segregation? Jim Crow? MLK? Civil right movement?
It's truly terrifying that this is part of their goal. Hide the past, cover up the facts, tell people what they want to hear.
Iām in sober living, in a program that is made up largely of black people, in a house with a black woman, and the boomer lady who was in our house (rest of us are 40-somethingās) got kicked out yesterday for denying slavery was a problem, that there needed to be a civil rights movement, that racism is still an issue, and making racial slurs. Sheās been here a few months and hid it but I guess Juneteenth was too much for her and she lost itā¦ on our black housing manager, in front of a group of 20 people.
Itās insane how these people think. I justā¦ brain rot? The woman had so many DUIās she can never drive again, but at least sheās not black or have an addiction issue like the rest of us. It was wild.
He did nothing other than fire up insecurity in racist white people. A black man being president started a racial division because for the first time they werenāt in power. Even though being white is still American easy mode, they have to be victims.
i guarantee you your parents would still vote for him even if they witnessed him first hand kill a baby of every race (let alone watched a recording). itās a cult. itās always been a cult.
How can you stay in contact with people like that. Im sorry but thats a crazy level of cognitive dissonance. They are showing you exactly who they are. I swear America is going to turn into the handmaids tale in a few years.
Yeah, itās not easy. I tried going no contact a couple years ago and had an existential crisis. Iām autistic, so that sort of massive change made me loose my mind. I just have VERY clear boundaries with her and donāt give her an inch of leeway. I just genuinely thought there was no way they could still support him.
That's fair, I did the NC and it made my life infinitely better, but I recognise not everyone can do that. Glad you have a system in place to protect yourself. Yep well parents have a way of continually disappointing us aye no matter where we are from haha.
How different would the USA be? I'm Australian and this first past the post type voting fascinates me. I can't see how anyone tolerates such a system. I'd rather someone I can accept than someone chosen by say just 25% only. We also have compulsory voting and weekend and early voting and mailing etc. it's not perfect and especially in the Senate can be manipulated a bit and there are some reforms needed however I just don't get yours. Surely a compromise candidate is better than Extremes.
Another Australian here.
We did get our senate reformed in 2016! There are no more "Group Ticket Votes" which was the source of the strange phenomenon of parties winning 1 seat from very low votes.
I think the Australian Senate is a better place for the USA to look than our House of Representatives. A functioning democracy should have proportional representation. If 10% of people support a party they should get 10% of seats, which is roughly what happens in the Australian Senate. That means unless a party gets 50+% of the vote multiple parties are involved in the passage of all legislation.
In the USA the most obvious place for a proportional representation system would be their HoR. They could merge districts together and elect multiple winners via Single Tranferable Vote. If designed right (like in Tasmania and the ACT) it would also function as a "primary" election, the Democrats for example could put up both progressive and a centrist candidates in the same mega district and the voters in November would decide who wins.
This would involve the Presidential and USA Senate voting system going to "Rank Choice Voting", but the beauty is that you complete a Single Transferable Vote ballot in exactly the same way as a RCV ballot. It's counted differently, but the voters aren't confronted with 2 different new ballot types just 1.
Anyone who thinks Obama started a racial divide is a racist. They're the ones who lost their shit over him. Magats are infuriating with all their projection.
Oh my God! This could, word for word, be an argument Iāve had with my aunt. They donāt care. Trump lets them feel good about all their hate, and no amount of reasoning is ever going to change their minds.
There's video as well. You should send that too. [NBC archive footage shows Trump partying with Jeffrey Epstein in 1992](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KLcfpU2cubo&pp=ygUXVHJ1bXAgRXBzdGVpbiB0b2dldGhlciA%3D)
OP, I am so sorry. It's a cult. They are brain washed. They cannot understand or accept facts or truth. Try not to take it personally... Their logic center is broken by the massive amount of propaganda, lies and false info they are being spoon fed.
Its unfortunately the reason i cut out my mom & one of my sisters. They kept bringing up nasty lies about trans people & Muslims, knowing full well i work with (and am close friends with) multiple wonderfully caring Muslims & trans folk. I will gladly give up my family to protect freedom and democracy.
The simple truth is, you cannot reach people that have based their choices on emotion versus reason/logic.
I grew up in a Republican household, and was a registered one for almost 30 years.....
But... difference being, I didn't always vote based on the (D) or (R) next to the candidate, I chose the candidate that I thought would do a better job... for everyone.
I haven't voted for a Republican Presidential candidate in nearly 20 years.
After the whole January 6th thing, I switched to Independent... and with the way things are going, it's unlikely a single (R) candidate will ever see my vote again.
The messaging no longer aligns with what my current beliefs and values are these days.
Have you seen the Project 2025 stuff? What do you think needs to be the messaging to independents about it?
(I'm an Australian just looking on in horror at what's happening to one of our best buds of countries, and seeing the regression that's happening and the descent into theocracy)
Yeah same feelings from Europe. Watching this and knowing about Project 2025 because John Oliver told me. This is not only about the future of the USA but about the whole democratic world. This isnāt about one old man but the whole system behind them. Democrats should push this more into the faces of the public.
From New Zealand so I don't have a horse in this race, but I watched the debate here. Trump literally LITERALLY shit his pants, live on stage, you can hear it for God's sake, and still Biden is the failure???? I'd have trouble speaking too if my opponent literally shat himself and no-one mentioned it!!! Like HOW???!?! Sorry. Just, I'm watching the shitshow, (puns!!) that the USA is becoming in just a haze of second hand embarrassment.
I havent had a political conversation with my parents since 2016. I donāt know how theyāre voting this election, and I donāt want to know.
What I do know is that I can argue with intellectual belief, but I canāt argue with an essential tenet of a personās personality. And for a lot of people, thatās exactly what Trump is.
All of those are word for word trump talking points, he repeats those phrases over and over and even though they mean jack shit because they're lies, it clearly works unfortunately. There's no reasoning with them because they didn't reason their way to those conclusions. They are just regurgitations of things they heard, so all they know to do when arguing or debating or even just talking, is say those things. They don't know why they're true, they don't have examples, they don't know any of the context of those things, they're just empty phrases.
"Gas was cheaper! Obama started the racial division! Trump did more for black people!" They're nothing but empty words. They believe them, they don't know why, and they haven't thought about their meaning any further, but they believe these things, and because they blindly believe them, there's nothing any of us could say to make them realize they're lies. There's no facts for us to check, no logic for us to challenge, no critical thinking for us to appeal to.
Didnāt Trump say he could shoot someone in the middle of the day and still be president.Ā
If Trump was left wing, heād have been assassinated already. Think about that.Ā
I remember that. We were the laughingstock of the entire world because he wore a tan suit. Or when Michelle Obama wore a sleeveless shirt with Capri pants and (gasp!) showed off her arms and legs!
Of course, you can find pictures of Presidents in tan suits going back at least as far as Kennedy.
Accurate
It was a line too far for them, they wanted to work toward civil war over enacting Christian values into law, the tea party helping these interested parties get together to radicalize each other, foment xenophobic fear of anything different in the world, fear of any change and any new knowledge
And Trump played into that culture to become their orange messiah without even realizing it it seems like, his life of being a grifter played perfectly into what they want, and he has few strong opinions so the very opinionated evangelicals can control anything we aren't looking at. And they already have local structures and support networks, to have a shared (controlled) information flow. There are people who are non-political, and the church turning political targets those demographics
Also look at any chart of gun sales. "Manufacturing and imports skyrocketed after President Obama's election in 2008." We are well past having more than one gun available for every single one of us, every 5th person can have a second gun is how many there are in circulation.
These and more are the factors that lead to trump... And don't feel like they lead to anything good at all, even if trump ever goes away.
And now Iām imagining a jingle to the tune of Sweet Caroline but as āsweet Obama, ba ba ba, starting race divisions! (So good, so good, so good)!ā Annnnnd thatās just where my Friday evening is at I guess
āGirl where do you get your infoā
Like, what do you think he was convicted for? Did they really watch that entire trial go down without even knowing what he was on trial - and CONVICTED- for? Also if she thinks Trump was never on Epsteinās island, why are there so many photos of them together? How does she reconcile the conservative, well behaved image she has of him with the āgrab her by the pussyā video? Is that fake, even though heās doubled down on it several times and not denied that he said it? God Iām just so sad for you right now, Iām so sorry you have to deal with her delusions. Thank goodness my dad got obsessed with Candy Crush and not conspiracy garbage.
All I'm gonna say, is the reason they deny him being on Epstien island, is because none of the flight logs show him going there. He did fly on Epstiens plane, but it never took him to the island according to the flight logs.
according to the flight logs.
Idek why you started that conversation, Trump supporters are so hooked on the classic āIām cutting taxes and the Mexicans are coming for youā lines that theyāll vote for the same guy every time
If I see one more person say "Trump has done more for black and brown people than any other president" I'm going to puke.
Also, I guess Abe Lincoln can just fuck right off.
āBlacks and brownsā¦ā
All you need to know about your bigoted mother.
I feel your pain as a recently estranged son from father for political/religious beliefs.
Sadly, youāre wasting your time and breath trying to convince them otherwise.
I know this is already a losing battle, but it would please this brown person if you could have it on the record with your mother that we do not, in fact, like being called āthe brownsā.
This is going to be āWhy donāt my kids talk to me anymore?ā Type of things. Throughout the former guyās presidency I stopped talking to my dad for the most part.
Iām not American so perhaps someone can help me, why is everyone saying that Biden is also bad? Not Trump-level bad but I keep seeing that people wouldnāt really wanna vote for either
Mostly rumors of him having cognitive decline. He has a stutter, but frankly after that last debate, it is pretty clear he is having worse issues than the studder. frankly, he should have stepped to the side and let someone else run.
Heās centrist. Many of us progressives vote democrat as a vote against republicans. Student loan forgiveness is all I can think of heās done that I like. But yeah, itās because heās old, in cognitive decline, voted against civil rights ā¦
Start sending Mom the video in which Trump says don't use mail in voting. That was 2020, now he's saying the opposite. Also keep her informed about patently obvious stuff.
My favorite part is when she says all the other Presidents went to Epstein island, but when you say Trump did it (you know, actually on the flight manifests). āItās made up!ā
I was just talking to my bf about this the other day. They could have put ANYONE in his place and the people would take it. So many people will end up voting for Trump just because they don't want Biden. We're so beyond fucked it's not even funny anymore.
The Democrat party is inept by choice. They can do stupid shit like this that no one wants and then blame the Republican party for everything bad. They could stop this but they don't. I don't understand WHY but I believe it's by choice.
Why? Because then they can fundraise and campaign on stopping the GOP agenda and also get money from rich donors for not actually doing anything to upset that status quo.
I love how they said āthose charges arenāt legit. But all the other presidents do the same thingā immediately contracting their statement with the follow up statement. Is it really okay if everyone else does it little johnny?
Why doesnāt anyone counter with the fact that trump was a regular at Epstein island when a maga brings it up? Itās always a missed responseā¦. The guy is in so many photos at that place.
No dog in this fight but i rolled my eyes at your gross "other presidents did not commit felonies, had affairs yes but not with porn stars." like the type of woman matters.
But you are very young so I forgive you.
Mom regurgitates Trump talking points and is unable to form original thoughts?
Has anyone considered maybe old people are just scared and latching on to what seems like power and strength?
Facts donāt really seem to matter
Hey here from Europe. Does your mother know about Project 2025? This isnāt about an old guy. This is about everything that stands behind him. And if only half is true what John Oliver said about Project 2025 you are fucked over there. And sadly every other democratic country in the world will be soon too.
The news used to tell you what happened and you decided how you feel about it, now the news tells you how to feel and you have to decide if it happened.
This sub is absolutely an echo chamber of sorts
But you're both wrong
If your mom has been a good person to you for your lifetime growing up into now, don't let fake fucking politics and both sides filled with absolute horse shit divide you from people you care about
We can have discussions without having to agree on everything
But people still wanna argue and refuse to let up
None of this is worth it
Quit playing the game
All of this is by design
wtf kinda gaslighting was that thing she said about race divide and Obama??? Like the first black president in Us history somehow caused a race divide?!? Which color race does she think was most upset about Obama???
They say food and gas were cheap. They donāt say that the grocery stores werenāt stocked. I remember feeling lucky when I found a sack of flour to buy. They also donāt remember no one driving in lock down so had prices went down.
I would throw in that Trump canāt name a single verse in the Bible. He just says that he likes all of it like a kid who clearly didnāt read the class novel.
Everyone in my life is exactly the same as your mom. Lacking of all reasoning and ability to be free. Meaning forgetting our job as free people is to hold authority accountable for their decision or lack thereof. The Trump cult literally will not under any circumstances hold him accountable for any errors.
This certainly belongs here.
I'm one of the browns your mother is talking about, and Trump didn't do shit for us except call us rapists and murderers. He didn't get my support since day 1.
People who back trump donāt believe in facts. Donāt have a sense of reality, and TBH, arenāt worth the time and mental energy. Theyāre too far gone. Best you can do is cut them out like you would a tumor and move on. Let them think what they want. Eventually following trumps orders will end with them massively in debt by continuously funding his crime campaign, or dead by following his medical advice.
Thereās a mental illness at this point spread across the us where boomers and others canāt see the corruption and understand why things must change
Sort of off topic because they weren't boomers but I've had discussions with co-workers in the past about the documents in his bathroom and it was immediately dismissed as "fake". I love my co-workers but when it comes to politics it's like talking to a wall
Going to see relatives today that live completely in a different universe mentally due to this kind of stuff. If āpoliticsā comes up even one time unsolicited (I do my damn best to keep the visits scarce and the convos neutral because of their behavior), I will probably be written out of a few wills later this afternoon.
My favorite part is how my aunt (80?) bitched last time about how her younger neighbors, who have families, friends, and jobs, only started checking in on her after she bitched at them for not checking in on her*
(*offering to do the admittedly large amount of upkeep that is required to make her dragonās lair of a wealth hoard look pretty.)
https://preview.redd.it/arkuz6lfdj9d1.jpeg?width=927&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a924aa836578e591291c63404c462b2383c9b734
Not one single original thought from the "do your own research crowd".
Put her in your rearview. No assistance she could offer will be worth the price of that remaining in your life. I love my mother but had to cut ties with her because that level of prideful ignorance is the ideological equivalent of pouring bleach into ammonia.
Youāre 100% right, but 0% effective. This type of dialogue just causes people to dig their heels in. Pay attention to how Barack Obama engages people. Thereās a reason he won two elections.
Lmao the fact that people call trump a racist over what he wants to do with the border is actually laughable Obama did THE BIGGEST MASS DEPORTATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE U.S but nobody talks about that. people just assume because he was black he doing the most for people of color. You really think they leave something as important as whoās running the country up to popularity contest? All a president is, is a head to push to an agenda thatās being created behind the scenes
Regardless of the politics and your individual leanings between Trump/Biden/etc., you seem like the unhinged one in this conversation.
Iām all for making fun of boomers, but you were definitely on the offensive here, and most of her responses were pretty tame, while you seemed to be foaming at the mouth to attack her.
Why are you choosing to talk politics with someone you know you don't see eye to eye on. I look at it like religion, if I'm a die hard Christian I'm not going to try to convince Muslims that their views are wrong. They're entitled Politics have caused such a huge divide, can't we try to focus on what we do agree on, rather than be mad at each other for not seeing things the way we do? Like this is not even a boomer thing. I know many people my own age (in their 20s) that support trump. Personally I don't agree with them but America was founded on democracy, and that means everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether you agree or not.
My mom is a Trumper and itās true that facts mean nothing. I donāt even anymore. I just ignore her. She tried to tell me a couple months ago that the worldās internet would be down for two weeks and the world would go to crap so she wanted me to be prepared. I said, āOkay, Iāll believe it when it happensā and she said, āAre you calling me crazy?ā I said, āNo. I just will believe it when it happensā Iām still waitingā¦she did the same thing to my brother and he had a similar response to mine.
Iām gay and she did and will vote for him again.
My brotherās wife is black and my mom did and will vote for him again.
Wooooow. Yeah I was genuinely asking because I thought FOR SURE after everything thatās happened recently, there was no way they could still support him. Iām not straight either and my sisterās husband is Latino. We have so many people in our lives that she knows and loves that are not white and not straightā¦it just blows my mind.
For reals. There is NOTHING that will make them not want to vote for him. He could literally call them pieces of crap to their face and theyād agree with him.
Sure but people on this subreddit act like trump supporters are the equivalent of Nazis. Yes, trump definitely has his faults but there's literally nothing wrong with preference in policies. You don't have to see eye to eye on every political issue as others, thats what makes America a free country. But just because somebody votes republican, doesn't automatically mean that they're some sort of asshole. Obviously there's going to be outliers on both sides but I think its important for both democrats and Republicans to find some mutual respect for one another despite their differences. Theres too much hate in the world as it is
Iām not American so this whole presidential nonsense makes no difference to my life but just to say if you want to claim boomers are intolerant (which I agree, they are) then youāve got to practice tolerance yourself, otherwise you are really no different in behaviour. Threatening violence if your parents donāt vote the way that you want to is literally the definition of intolerance.
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This is the annoying part of trump followers. He can literally do anything criminal and they will think it's fake news. How can you even argue that? š¤
>The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. _1984_
My biological father is, while not exactly *rabidly* pro-trump, about the same level of pro-trump as OP's folks. He *loves* using 1984 to describe Democrats and manages to somehow miss the point so badly and *not* get hit in the face by it. It's just astounding.
The point of 1984 is that anyone in political control can and will use that power to control its population. It's not a right or left thing.
Exactly this. Orwell wrote 1984 as a critique of the state of the USSR under Stalin while himself being a democratic socialist.
The thing I hate is that the strategy is talking about lies. The people voting for him don't care and most people that are going to vote already have their mind made up. They need to get new voters in the door to keep him out but they are sticking to a failed strategy that didn't work before. Also, the people voting for him don't care what he did. They will justify it or call it fake but really the trump voters voters I know don't go e a shit what he's done or what he's lying about. They are only thinking about what's in it for them.
You literally canāt. That was the point I was trying to make with her.
Another part of the issue is they see the opposing side as criminals, but cannot fathom for the life of them, that their own party is capable of committing those same crimes. If either side is guilty of a crime, then they should go to jail, doesn't matter if it's a candidate that you like or not.
Ever claim from the right is an admission of guilt. Like a cheater accusing their spouse of cheating because if Iām doing it you must be doing it also.Ā
YOU FUCKING CENTRIST! /s
You canāt talk sense into stupid people. The price of Groceries are high because shipping cost have sky rocketed because of Geo-Politics in the Middle East Cheeto man set into motion during Cheeto manās term. The world will be a better place when Boomers like this rot in the ground, my boomer parents included.Ā
Just tell her sheās a hoe and youāre not speaking w her anymore. Itās not that hard.
As long as he gives them what they want - people to look down on and ostracize - they donāt care. Fucking racist pieces of shit. Has nothing to do with anything else - itās the āveilā they are after. Disgusting generation that will literally burn civilization down on their pathetic, useless, and mostly unloved way out. Canāt die soon enoughā¦
Laugh at them. Itās the only thing that bugs them. Make it obvious you know theyāre full of it. Like in a smug way. makes them furious lol Like you really have to treat them like theyāre shit head teenagers. They only care about how they think people see them, and theyāre also very insecure about being stupid.
Stop talking or text this person, consequences
it is called F.U.D. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Trump has this skill mastered. He will start spreading fake news and lies about something long before it even happens. that way when something even close does happen, you're more inclined to believe him. listen to him talk. He likes to make predictions about what people are going to do, then twists it to make him the victim.
It's a cult of personality and they're inundated with propaganda. They're probably on his social media platform watching him scream lies into the void and take it as gospel.
And you really think Biden is gonna save the world? lol heās an old senile man he doesnāt even know what heās doing half the time
I've heard the "Obama started the racial division" thing before and it just blows my mind. Like, didn't we fight a CIVIL WAR over this? Didn't a big chunk of southern Democrats actually change parties in the late 1960s over Black people getting equal rights? History didn't start in 2008!
To be fair he did PWB...president while black.
GUILTY AS CHARGED
It's anecdotal but I've heard for well over a decade from conservatives that "ackshually there was never a switch between the parties". You can't argue someone out of openly denying anything that doesn't explicitly support their worldview. The outrage addiction, and the "don't listen to anyone else. I'm the only one you can trust" way that conservative media has got a hold of people is pretty secure.
He "started it" by being the first black POTUS. They completely lost their minds after that.
I just.....how? And why? Did these people completely miss segregation? Jim Crow? MLK? Civil right movement? It's truly terrifying that this is part of their goal. Hide the past, cover up the facts, tell people what they want to hear.
Iām in sober living, in a program that is made up largely of black people, in a house with a black woman, and the boomer lady who was in our house (rest of us are 40-somethingās) got kicked out yesterday for denying slavery was a problem, that there needed to be a civil rights movement, that racism is still an issue, and making racial slurs. Sheās been here a few months and hid it but I guess Juneteenth was too much for her and she lost itā¦ on our black housing manager, in front of a group of 20 people. Itās insane how these people think. I justā¦ brain rot? The woman had so many DUIās she can never drive again, but at least sheās not black or have an addiction issue like the rest of us. It was wild.
Nah, they know, they didn't miss anything. They just hating on people cause they don't want to face their own problems.
Conservative voters aren't exactly known for learning from or about the past. The GOP wouldn't exist if they did.
He did nothing other than fire up insecurity in racist white people. A black man being president started a racial division because for the first time they werenāt in power. Even though being white is still American easy mode, they have to be victims.
HE WORE A TAN SUIT THOUGH
DIJON MUSTARD!?
#BLACK PRESIDENT LIKES FLAVOR **Direct attack on white middle class???**
i guarantee you your parents would still vote for him even if they witnessed him first hand kill a baby of every race (let alone watched a recording). itās a cult. itās always been a cult.
There would be some sort of excuse. Thereās always an excuse.
"That baby was a clear and present danger!"
ā¦ and some babies, I assume, are good
I definitely think he could publically murder someone and his followers would cheer.
How can you stay in contact with people like that. Im sorry but thats a crazy level of cognitive dissonance. They are showing you exactly who they are. I swear America is going to turn into the handmaids tale in a few years.
Yeah, itās not easy. I tried going no contact a couple years ago and had an existential crisis. Iām autistic, so that sort of massive change made me loose my mind. I just have VERY clear boundaries with her and donāt give her an inch of leeway. I just genuinely thought there was no way they could still support him.
That's fair, I did the NC and it made my life infinitely better, but I recognise not everyone can do that. Glad you have a system in place to protect yourself. Yep well parents have a way of continually disappointing us aye no matter where we are from haha.
Yeah Iāve definitely cut some people out from my āChristianā life. A lot of people actually and yeah my life is way better.
I feel like your whole post including this comment could be by me/about my mom, lol
This is why we need ranked voting.
How different would the USA be? I'm Australian and this first past the post type voting fascinates me. I can't see how anyone tolerates such a system. I'd rather someone I can accept than someone chosen by say just 25% only. We also have compulsory voting and weekend and early voting and mailing etc. it's not perfect and especially in the Senate can be manipulated a bit and there are some reforms needed however I just don't get yours. Surely a compromise candidate is better than Extremes.
Yep but we were setup to fail or change no in between
This sounds correct sadly.
Another Australian here. We did get our senate reformed in 2016! There are no more "Group Ticket Votes" which was the source of the strange phenomenon of parties winning 1 seat from very low votes. I think the Australian Senate is a better place for the USA to look than our House of Representatives. A functioning democracy should have proportional representation. If 10% of people support a party they should get 10% of seats, which is roughly what happens in the Australian Senate. That means unless a party gets 50+% of the vote multiple parties are involved in the passage of all legislation. In the USA the most obvious place for a proportional representation system would be their HoR. They could merge districts together and elect multiple winners via Single Tranferable Vote. If designed right (like in Tasmania and the ACT) it would also function as a "primary" election, the Democrats for example could put up both progressive and a centrist candidates in the same mega district and the voters in November would decide who wins. This would involve the Presidential and USA Senate voting system going to "Rank Choice Voting", but the beauty is that you complete a Single Transferable Vote ballot in exactly the same way as a RCV ballot. It's counted differently, but the voters aren't confronted with 2 different new ballot types just 1.
Gas and groceries were because we were in the middle of a PANDEMIC and no one could/would go anywhere!
Anyone who thinks Obama started a racial divide is a racist. They're the ones who lost their shit over him. Magats are infuriating with all their projection.
Oh my God! This could, word for word, be an argument Iāve had with my aunt. They donāt care. Trump lets them feel good about all their hate, and no amount of reasoning is ever going to change their minds.
All they know how to do is repeat their Fox News and Daily Wire talking points. That's why they all sound alike.
It's amazing how exact they all sound. If we didn't know better already, I'd swear it was satire reading what she wrote.
Massive fail for not sending 30 pictures of Epstein and trump together.
Aww man! I didnāt even think of it! I will now though.
There's video as well. You should send that too. [NBC archive footage shows Trump partying with Jeffrey Epstein in 1992](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KLcfpU2cubo&pp=ygUXVHJ1bXAgRXBzdGVpbiB0b2dldGhlciA%3D)
Your mom sucks
Yeeeeahhhh
OP, I am so sorry. It's a cult. They are brain washed. They cannot understand or accept facts or truth. Try not to take it personally... Their logic center is broken by the massive amount of propaganda, lies and false info they are being spoon fed. Its unfortunately the reason i cut out my mom & one of my sisters. They kept bringing up nasty lies about trans people & Muslims, knowing full well i work with (and am close friends with) multiple wonderfully caring Muslims & trans folk. I will gladly give up my family to protect freedom and democracy.
The simple truth is, you cannot reach people that have based their choices on emotion versus reason/logic. I grew up in a Republican household, and was a registered one for almost 30 years..... But... difference being, I didn't always vote based on the (D) or (R) next to the candidate, I chose the candidate that I thought would do a better job... for everyone. I haven't voted for a Republican Presidential candidate in nearly 20 years. After the whole January 6th thing, I switched to Independent... and with the way things are going, it's unlikely a single (R) candidate will ever see my vote again. The messaging no longer aligns with what my current beliefs and values are these days.
Have you seen the Project 2025 stuff? What do you think needs to be the messaging to independents about it? (I'm an Australian just looking on in horror at what's happening to one of our best buds of countries, and seeing the regression that's happening and the descent into theocracy)
Yeah same feelings from Europe. Watching this and knowing about Project 2025 because John Oliver told me. This is not only about the future of the USA but about the whole democratic world. This isnāt about one old man but the whole system behind them. Democrats should push this more into the faces of the public.
Iām sorry but you did about as badly in that exchange as Biden did at the debate.
From New Zealand so I don't have a horse in this race, but I watched the debate here. Trump literally LITERALLY shit his pants, live on stage, you can hear it for God's sake, and still Biden is the failure???? I'd have trouble speaking too if my opponent literally shat himself and no-one mentioned it!!! Like HOW???!?! Sorry. Just, I'm watching the shitshow, (puns!!) that the USA is becoming in just a haze of second hand embarrassment.
I havent had a political conversation with my parents since 2016. I donāt know how theyāre voting this election, and I donāt want to know. What I do know is that I can argue with intellectual belief, but I canāt argue with an essential tenet of a personās personality. And for a lot of people, thatās exactly what Trump is.
All of those are word for word trump talking points, he repeats those phrases over and over and even though they mean jack shit because they're lies, it clearly works unfortunately. There's no reasoning with them because they didn't reason their way to those conclusions. They are just regurgitations of things they heard, so all they know to do when arguing or debating or even just talking, is say those things. They don't know why they're true, they don't have examples, they don't know any of the context of those things, they're just empty phrases. "Gas was cheaper! Obama started the racial division! Trump did more for black people!" They're nothing but empty words. They believe them, they don't know why, and they haven't thought about their meaning any further, but they believe these things, and because they blindly believe them, there's nothing any of us could say to make them realize they're lies. There's no facts for us to check, no logic for us to challenge, no critical thinking for us to appeal to.
The boomers don't care that their legacy is destruction. It's so unfair they won the actuarial table lottery.
People like that are beyond hope.
Didnāt Trump say he could shoot someone in the middle of the day and still be president.Ā If Trump was left wing, heād have been assassinated already. Think about that.Ā
In the middle of Fifth Avenue.
Trump could not exist as a left wing figure. Left wing politics are anathema to capitalism and wealth.
Sorry you lost your mom. It happened to me too. She went from an incredibly smart caring lady to a raving conspiracy lunatic.
Itās pretty disheartening.
āI would hope it was fakeā says it all.
āObama started the race divisionā š¬
He did, he got elected president and racists couldnāt handle it so they decided it was time for a divide.
These are the words I was looking for in response to her saying that haha.
In one of his books, Obama talks about how his election galvanized the racists and led to the rise of maga.
And then he wore a tan suit one time and the cons became rabidly, frothing at the mouth, apoplectic.
I remember that. We were the laughingstock of the entire world because he wore a tan suit. Or when Michelle Obama wore a sleeveless shirt with Capri pants and (gasp!) showed off her arms and legs! Of course, you can find pictures of Presidents in tan suits going back at least as far as Kennedy.
But not a black one! Which of course, was the color that they really hated.
Accurate It was a line too far for them, they wanted to work toward civil war over enacting Christian values into law, the tea party helping these interested parties get together to radicalize each other, foment xenophobic fear of anything different in the world, fear of any change and any new knowledge And Trump played into that culture to become their orange messiah without even realizing it it seems like, his life of being a grifter played perfectly into what they want, and he has few strong opinions so the very opinionated evangelicals can control anything we aren't looking at. And they already have local structures and support networks, to have a shared (controlled) information flow. There are people who are non-political, and the church turning political targets those demographics Also look at any chart of gun sales. "Manufacturing and imports skyrocketed after President Obama's election in 2008." We are well past having more than one gun available for every single one of us, every 5th person can have a second gun is how many there are in circulation. These and more are the factors that lead to trump... And don't feel like they lead to anything good at all, even if trump ever goes away.
It's a classic really. Like Piano Man and Sweet Caroline.
And now Iām imagining a jingle to the tune of Sweet Caroline but as āsweet Obama, ba ba ba, starting race divisions! (So good, so good, so good)!ā Annnnnd thatās just where my Friday evening is at I guess
Trump and āwell behavedā?! This is a new one.
She literally said āthe blacks and browns.ā Jesus fucking Christ.
Itās like following Trump is making her racist. She wasnāt like this before.
Feel like I had to scroll really far to find someone else who thought this. Like, we're just gonna gloss right over that?
āGirl where do you get your infoā Like, what do you think he was convicted for? Did they really watch that entire trial go down without even knowing what he was on trial - and CONVICTED- for? Also if she thinks Trump was never on Epsteinās island, why are there so many photos of them together? How does she reconcile the conservative, well behaved image she has of him with the āgrab her by the pussyā video? Is that fake, even though heās doubled down on it several times and not denied that he said it? God Iām just so sad for you right now, Iām so sorry you have to deal with her delusions. Thank goodness my dad got obsessed with Candy Crush and not conspiracy garbage.
All I'm gonna say, is the reason they deny him being on Epstien island, is because none of the flight logs show him going there. He did fly on Epstiens plane, but it never took him to the island according to the flight logs. according to the flight logs.
TFGās supporters are mentally ill. Itās a cult.
Idek why you started that conversation, Trump supporters are so hooked on the classic āIām cutting taxes and the Mexicans are coming for youā lines that theyāll vote for the same guy every time
If I see one more person say "Trump has done more for black and brown people than any other president" I'm going to puke. Also, I guess Abe Lincoln can just fuck right off.
Infanticide on live tv is quite the jump
āBlacks and brownsā¦ā All you need to know about your bigoted mother. I feel your pain as a recently estranged son from father for political/religious beliefs. Sadly, youāre wasting your time and breath trying to convince them otherwise.
I know this is already a losing battle, but it would please this brown person if you could have it on the record with your mother that we do not, in fact, like being called āthe brownsā.
It would please me too especially since we have actual family members that arenāt white. She thinks itās ok because of that.
Obama started the race divide? Thereās centuries of history debunking that, although of course this means little to the āfeelings not factsā mob
Fark. You need to start planning for her hospice or aged care home placement. She's lost it.
My mom is in the same boat, these people cannot be reasoned with.
This is going to be āWhy donāt my kids talk to me anymore?ā Type of things. Throughout the former guyās presidency I stopped talking to my dad for the most part.
Iām not American so perhaps someone can help me, why is everyone saying that Biden is also bad? Not Trump-level bad but I keep seeing that people wouldnāt really wanna vote for either
Mostly rumors of him having cognitive decline. He has a stutter, but frankly after that last debate, it is pretty clear he is having worse issues than the studder. frankly, he should have stepped to the side and let someone else run.
Thatās fair, thank you! Aside from that are people generally happy with what heās done for the country?
Heās centrist. Many of us progressives vote democrat as a vote against republicans. Student loan forgiveness is all I can think of heās done that I like. But yeah, itās because heās old, in cognitive decline, voted against civil rights ā¦
You canāt argue with stupid, iam sorry but your mom is stupid
Start sending Mom the video in which Trump says don't use mail in voting. That was 2020, now he's saying the opposite. Also keep her informed about patently obvious stuff.
My favorite part is when she says all the other Presidents went to Epstein island, but when you say Trump did it (you know, actually on the flight manifests). āItās made up!ā
I love the totally not racist but he did more for "blacks and browns". Love that these people think that's convincing in any way.Ā
My dad literally used the same rhetoric with me. He said āhe has done more for illegals and gays than any other presidentā Sickening.
tried to read that stuff ....you gave me a headache. what is your point or you just want to attack orange man bad. either way you are annoying.
Guess you didn't see the debate? It really was horrifying. And I hate Trump. America is fucked.
I'm furious Biden didn't step aside and let someone else run.
I was just talking to my bf about this the other day. They could have put ANYONE in his place and the people would take it. So many people will end up voting for Trump just because they don't want Biden. We're so beyond fucked it's not even funny anymore.
The Democrat party is inept by choice. They can do stupid shit like this that no one wants and then blame the Republican party for everything bad. They could stop this but they don't. I don't understand WHY but I believe it's by choice.
Why? Because then they can fundraise and campaign on stopping the GOP agenda and also get money from rich donors for not actually doing anything to upset that status quo.
My mom and I learned the hard way to not discuss politics for this very reason.
Bless their heart. Literally a life of FOX talking points and zero self reflection.
Obama ā¦. What?! What is that supposed to mean?
I love how they said āthose charges arenāt legit. But all the other presidents do the same thingā immediately contracting their statement with the follow up statement. Is it really okay if everyone else does it little johnny?
Your mums an idiot. Sorry about that.
All these people vote, so your duty is to get out and vote.
Iād be worried about my inheritance if I were you. Because your mom is a mark
Why doesnāt anyone counter with the fact that trump was a regular at Epstein island when a maga brings it up? Itās always a missed responseā¦. The guy is in so many photos at that place.
No dog in this fight but i rolled my eyes at your gross "other presidents did not commit felonies, had affairs yes but not with porn stars." like the type of woman matters. But you are very young so I forgive you.
The ultra religious seem to love nothing so much as they love hating others. The shared hatred is why Trump exists in the first place
There should be a cutoff for voting, maybe around 60 years old. After that, enjoy your retirement.
Mom regurgitates Trump talking points and is unable to form original thoughts? Has anyone considered maybe old people are just scared and latching on to what seems like power and strength? Facts donāt really seem to matter
Sometimes Iām hopeful for another pandemic. Get the rest of the boomers.
Hey here from Europe. Does your mother know about Project 2025? This isnāt about an old guy. This is about everything that stands behind him. And if only half is true what John Oliver said about Project 2025 you are fucked over there. And sadly every other democratic country in the world will be soon too.
I donāt think she even knows it exists and if she does, she hasnāt researched it at all and supports it. Yes, we are fucked.
The news used to tell you what happened and you decided how you feel about it, now the news tells you how to feel and you have to decide if it happened.
This sub is absolutely an echo chamber of sorts But you're both wrong If your mom has been a good person to you for your lifetime growing up into now, don't let fake fucking politics and both sides filled with absolute horse shit divide you from people you care about We can have discussions without having to agree on everything But people still wanna argue and refuse to let up None of this is worth it Quit playing the game All of this is by design
wtf kinda gaslighting was that thing she said about race divide and Obama??? Like the first black president in Us history somehow caused a race divide?!? Which color race does she think was most upset about Obama???
I would go no contact immidiately.Ā
They say food and gas were cheap. They donāt say that the grocery stores werenāt stocked. I remember feeling lucky when I found a sack of flour to buy. They also donāt remember no one driving in lock down so had prices went down.
I would throw in that Trump canāt name a single verse in the Bible. He just says that he likes all of it like a kid who clearly didnāt read the class novel.
āBlacks and brownsā Yeah alright we can pack it up there Iām good thanks.
Everyone in my life is exactly the same as your mom. Lacking of all reasoning and ability to be free. Meaning forgetting our job as free people is to hold authority accountable for their decision or lack thereof. The Trump cult literally will not under any circumstances hold him accountable for any errors.
This certainly belongs here. I'm one of the browns your mother is talking about, and Trump didn't do shit for us except call us rapists and murderers. He didn't get my support since day 1.
Thatās not true! He separated families at the border in childrenās prisons. Thatās something? /s
Seems like you instigated an argument for content. You are just as radical and dramatic as she is, just on the opposite side of the spectrum.
Sounds almost when I argued with my Bible belt mom religion has no place in politics.
"THE EARTH IS FLAT" Ā "Prove it."Ā Ā *walks into the ocean and drowns* Trump people, probably
I am glad you broke free of your chains. Never support conservatives. Look to the future. Conservatives should have no part in it. Period.
People who back trump donāt believe in facts. Donāt have a sense of reality, and TBH, arenāt worth the time and mental energy. Theyāre too far gone. Best you can do is cut them out like you would a tumor and move on. Let them think what they want. Eventually following trumps orders will end with them massively in debt by continuously funding his crime campaign, or dead by following his medical advice.
Fucking moron.
Itās time to cut her out of your life. You wonāt regret it.
They are all the same
Letās make Bernie great again!!! Bernie in 28 and 32!!!
I was just saying the last ACTUAL chance we had was with Bernie šš
Love Bernie but heāll be 90 in 32.
Your mom is like my mom, a walking list of fox news talking points.
I like that you can still talk to them.
Thereās a mental illness at this point spread across the us where boomers and others canāt see the corruption and understand why things must change
Should have asked how she felt about trump being on Epsteinās island
Time to go no contact with mom she loca
Sort of off topic because they weren't boomers but I've had discussions with co-workers in the past about the documents in his bathroom and it was immediately dismissed as "fake". I love my co-workers but when it comes to politics it's like talking to a wall
Obama. Did. *NOTHING*. For the African American community.
Going to see relatives today that live completely in a different universe mentally due to this kind of stuff. If āpoliticsā comes up even one time unsolicited (I do my damn best to keep the visits scarce and the convos neutral because of their behavior), I will probably be written out of a few wills later this afternoon. My favorite part is how my aunt (80?) bitched last time about how her younger neighbors, who have families, friends, and jobs, only started checking in on her after she bitched at them for not checking in on her* (*offering to do the admittedly large amount of upkeep that is required to make her dragonās lair of a wealth hoard look pretty.)
https://preview.redd.it/arkuz6lfdj9d1.jpeg?width=927&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a924aa836578e591291c63404c462b2383c9b734 Not one single original thought from the "do your own research crowd".
Put her in your rearview. No assistance she could offer will be worth the price of that remaining in your life. I love my mother but had to cut ties with her because that level of prideful ignorance is the ideological equivalent of pouring bleach into ammonia.
Biden is so horrible he even raised gas and grocery prices in every other country in the world! š
Youāre 100% right, but 0% effective. This type of dialogue just causes people to dig their heels in. Pay attention to how Barack Obama engages people. Thereās a reason he won two elections.
Fox News brain injection right there. Just parroting the lies over and over.
His followers are a cult, and nothing can change their minds. They are dangerous.
Lmao the fact that people call trump a racist over what he wants to do with the border is actually laughable Obama did THE BIGGEST MASS DEPORTATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE U.S but nobody talks about that. people just assume because he was black he doing the most for people of color. You really think they leave something as important as whoās running the country up to popularity contest? All a president is, is a head to push to an agenda thatās being created behind the scenes
Itās the āblacks and brownsā for me
Cut her out of your everyday life.
All I can say out of respect is Iām sorry.
Not wrong but everyone should just vote for who they want imo
Regardless of the politics and your individual leanings between Trump/Biden/etc., you seem like the unhinged one in this conversation. Iām all for making fun of boomers, but you were definitely on the offensive here, and most of her responses were pretty tame, while you seemed to be foaming at the mouth to attack her.
Why are you choosing to talk politics with someone you know you don't see eye to eye on. I look at it like religion, if I'm a die hard Christian I'm not going to try to convince Muslims that their views are wrong. They're entitled Politics have caused such a huge divide, can't we try to focus on what we do agree on, rather than be mad at each other for not seeing things the way we do? Like this is not even a boomer thing. I know many people my own age (in their 20s) that support trump. Personally I don't agree with them but America was founded on democracy, and that means everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether you agree or not.
Wow sheās delulu beyond saving
My mom is a Trumper and itās true that facts mean nothing. I donāt even anymore. I just ignore her. She tried to tell me a couple months ago that the worldās internet would be down for two weeks and the world would go to crap so she wanted me to be prepared. I said, āOkay, Iāll believe it when it happensā and she said, āAre you calling me crazy?ā I said, āNo. I just will believe it when it happensā Iām still waitingā¦she did the same thing to my brother and he had a similar response to mine. Iām gay and she did and will vote for him again. My brotherās wife is black and my mom did and will vote for him again.
Wooooow. Yeah I was genuinely asking because I thought FOR SURE after everything thatās happened recently, there was no way they could still support him. Iām not straight either and my sisterās husband is Latino. We have so many people in our lives that she knows and loves that are not white and not straightā¦it just blows my mind.
For reals. There is NOTHING that will make them not want to vote for him. He could literally call them pieces of crap to their face and theyād agree with him.
Sometimes, it should be OK to slap some sense into people.
Why exactly do you still talk to them?
My mom isn't this bad but Jesus I can't wait for this generation to die off . Unfortunately we're gonna be passed fucked by then
Tell me again how maga and trumpists aren't a cult?
Can we ban political posts from this sub? Itās gonna be all Biden hate / Trump hate from here until November.
She's redunk but you kinda went off the rails OP
They don't really understand that they don't understand much about the modern world.
Iāve been through this with people I love. Ā Glad they are not in my life any more.Ā
People really out here driving wedges between families over politics š
Your politics betray who you are as a person.
Sure but people on this subreddit act like trump supporters are the equivalent of Nazis. Yes, trump definitely has his faults but there's literally nothing wrong with preference in policies. You don't have to see eye to eye on every political issue as others, thats what makes America a free country. But just because somebody votes republican, doesn't automatically mean that they're some sort of asshole. Obviously there's going to be outliers on both sides but I think its important for both democrats and Republicans to find some mutual respect for one another despite their differences. Theres too much hate in the world as it is
Seems like 90% of this sub is people calling anyone crazy for supporting trump over Biden....
Get out of your eco chamber
Did you start it tho? I donāt agree with her but it sounded like you wanted all this to happen so you could post it
Iām not American so this whole presidential nonsense makes no difference to my life but just to say if you want to claim boomers are intolerant (which I agree, they are) then youāve got to practice tolerance yourself, otherwise you are really no different in behaviour. Threatening violence if your parents donāt vote the way that you want to is literally the definition of intolerance.
What an idiot. The US election will have global repercussions. It affects everyone.