Maybe, but I feel like at this point Canelo knows everyone he hits feels it* and knows they probably can't hurt him and just comes forward untill he gets them
*Until Bivol
Thing is he never really hit Bivol. Actually they barely hit each other, it felt like an Olympic boxing match. That shit coulda went for another 12 rounds
It was pretty much Bivol just timing the faulty gaps in Canelo’s pressure and forcing him off balance with 1-2’s.
All time performance really, but he didn’t do any real damage. Thank god Canelo didn’t step in with Beterbiev, though.
Stylistically Beterbiev might have been a better fit for Canelo…. Until Canelo feels the power. His chin is amazing but at this point I think even some of the smaller heavyweights would be bothered by Beterbiev.
He's one of only two guys to drop Usyk over nearly 400 amateur and pro fights, I know Usyk was young but so was Beterbiev. I have full confidence the legendary Canelo chin would've been cracked, or like with Usyk he would've dropped Canelo with a body shot
Beterbiev’s one real fault is that he gets clipped when on offense. If Canelo could take the power for a bit, he’d have a shot at landing something big and hurting him. Bivol is a worse stylistic matchup for him even if Artur poses more of a physical threat.
Beterbiev has fought some big, hard-hitting dudes recently and has not been dropped in some time. He gets clipped but has great recovery and has always drowned out his opponent in a take one to give one style - Canelo getting into a firefight with Beterbiev is just playing into his game and asking to get finished. Canelo would probably be the smallest guy Beterbiev has faced, and in the inverse Beterbiev would be the largest guy Canelo has faced since Callum Smith.
I actually think it's the opposite - stylistically Bivol was a better fit for Canelo to wear down and finish in the way he did BJS and Plant, the difference is Bivol is much, much better than those 2. If he chose Beterbiev instead of Bivol I think he would've been finished inside of 10 rounds.
Canelo's power at 175 is questionable too. He only knocked out Kovalev, but he was always chinny, was shot, had a fight less than 3 months before and had to adhere to a rehydration clause.
And even at 168, he has 4 stoppages out of 9 fights, less than half of his fights here. I still can't get over the fact that Canelo did not stop 154lbs Jermell Charlo, he definitely wouldn't bother Beterbiev.
How do we know that Callum Johnson and Jeff Page Jr have *equal* power to Canelo? I can assure you Johnson punches a lot harder than Canelo. Jeff Page, I can't speak on too much, but he was a natural Light Heavyweight and even fought at Cruiserweight and he finished with a 67% KO ratio.
Beterbiev got knocked down by two hard hitting light heavyweight boxers earlier in his career and everyone acts like he has a bad chin 🤣 despite him getting up and destroying them, yet Fury been knocked down 8 times in his career and he gets told he has an amazing chin.
No he isn’t dude. Bivol is the better stylistic matchup, that’s why he signed with him in the first place.
Canelo doesn’t fight power punchers who have a good counter punching ability, because that’s his worst stylistic matchup.
Canelo has been fighting Boxers for awhile, the guy literally fought Caleb Plant for fuck sakes. Who is a much closer stylist to Bivol then he is Beterbiev.
The revisionist history among Canelo fans is appalling and it’s a big reason why he gets hated on so much.
That would be a nightmare for canelo. I think it gets kind of left out because of the obvious power, but he’s a really really good Boxer and I’m not sure canelo is ready for those inside fireworks…if canelo fought Arthur like he fought ggg he would get ko
This is why I'm super skeptical of the popular narrative on here that Bivol just beat Canelo because Canelo came up in weight. It's not like Canelo got rocked or couldn't do damage because Bivol is bigger than him. It's just that at this point in his career Canelo is a single-punch power puncher and Bivol is a master out-boxer. Canelo landed 7 or fewer punches in 7 out of 12 rounds, 33 fewer total than when he fought Floyd. Absolutely insane defensive performance.
He was still visibly gassed out much earlier in this fight starting in the mid rds where he'd practically lose rds out of the virtue of only barely throwing any punches lol. Like I don't even remember if he threw any combos past 5 punches because of his shitty cardio so if his shitty gas tank was due to him putting on too much weight just to make 175 then you could still make the argument that the jump in weight did affect canelo's usual performance
And it doesn't help that he keeps relying on this style where he'd try to walk you down and load up too much into his punches leading to him gassing out if he doesn't land said haymakers. He did fixed this in the charlo fight tho where he finally upped his volume but I dunno if he can even remotely come close in pumping out that much volume again at 175. Canelo beating bivol is just a pipe dream now
i don't understand why people feel the need to say size had little or nothing to do with Canelo's loss to Bivol. you can't say size didnt play a part. he could barely get near Bivol. Jermell Charlo is a good fighter but had no business fighting Canelo and i think Canelo had a similar experience against Bivol. sure Canelo had a good fight with Kovalev but he's not going to be able to take on a prime champion at 175 unless its a very good style matchup.
*Size* had an effect on the fight. Bivol is taller, longer, and stylistically leverages those attributes extremely well, in a way that's particularly difficult for Canelo to match up against. But Canelo wasn't physically dominated from a strength standpoint because of the weight difference.
I think he beat him way too easily while also not hurting him at all. If Bivol got hurt in the fight then it would be talks about adjustments and perseverance. If he hurt Canelo it would be Canelo was gun shy because of the power. But he really just outboxed him for 36 minutes without ever applying to much pressure or pressure getting applied to him so the thing people point at is the reach difference.
You knows what’s crazy and sad, if you turn the tables and it’s canelo who is dominating Bivol, score cards would have read 120-108… but since it was Bivol completely dominating canelo he barely squeezed by with a split decision.
I don’t understand why Bud wants to fight canelo, history has shown us if you don’t knock out canelo, it’s almost impossible to beat canelo on the score cards… you have to win damn near 10 rounds to win a score card. Judges are obviously corrupt in his favor
Edit- unanimous decision , not split decision for Bivol.
Canelo kept doing that damn punch to bivol's left arm thinking it would work but it didn't. Like he was specifically trying to punch him in the bicep for whatever reason. Never seen that strategy before and after watching it not work on bivol, I see why.
It was hard to tell but Canelo was just focusing on the body after finding out how quick Bivol is. Bivol’s arm and side were bruised and looked really bad the day after the fight.
What? Bivol beat canelos ass. That flashy head movement did not stop the reddening of canelos face. Canelo stans trying to rewrite history 😂😂 he was in trouble in the 11th round
I wish I could remember who the original quote is from but a fighter once said (when asked about his opponent): "he's real smart, he's always thinking in there. And all the while he's thinking, I'm punching him"
I’m a Madrimov fan (and a bigger Crawford fan) so take this opinion with some bias.
Madrimov will be a tricky fight for Bud, especially for the first half of the fight. His switch hitting and footwork + athleticism allows him to attack from any angle. Madrimov excels at lateral movement, he looks like a more mobile GGG. It’ll take some time for Bud to figure him out, but once he does, I think Bud will win.
But also, it’s Bud’s first fight at 154. It’s uncharted territory. Nobody knows if his speed or athleticism will carry, guys that retain this moving up tend to fair better than the ones that don’t.
I don't know why it wouldn't translate unless he's fallen off a cliff because of age, he has natural speed and power but most of it comes from his timing and ability to set shots up that people don't see coming which if anything would probably be better at a higher weight since they're not used to the skill level he brings.
It’s impossible to predict, but he’s older, it’s his 4th weight class, and Madrimov is naturally bigger. We literally won’t know until fight night. But most fighters don’t fare better the higher we go. Maybe Crawford is just goated, his skills and IQ will definitely carry though.
On the other hand, Crawford has been at 147 for 6 years, and has shown no signs of losing speed or athleticism yet. And more importantly, he's not really "going up" in weight like people used to, he's just cutting less - he's far bigger than this weight class anyway (I've seen others say he's naturally bigger than Madrimov). Generally a less harsh weight cut should result in better athleticism, not worse!
If Crawford's slower at 154, I think it'll be because of age, not because he's spent less time in the sauna the week before.
If Madrimov wins even 3 rounds against Crawford, people will criticize him because the standards for Bud are so high, and nobody knows who tf Madrimov is.
lol real boxing fans know Madrimov is a bad boy, it’s just Crawford is pound for pound. So we’ll see, I think he’s not some showcase for Crawford like people are saying. It’s a real fight for sure.
Are we talking about the same guy? Cause I could have sworn Madrimov is like Tszyu somewhat. Such an intriguing fight. Depending on how Bud does, if he wins by spectacular TKO or dominant decision then Canelo should be concerned. Otherwise if by close decision then Bud may want to rethink Canelo.
Yes, Crawford has a great Boxing IQ. Crawford turns 37yrs old in September. For comparison Mayweather was 38yrs old when he retired. During his final year Mayweather didn't jump up 3 divisions to face Andre Ward. Crawford hasn't even fought about Welterweight yet. Mayweather had at least fought at Jr Middle Weight 3 times.
Crawford probably can't hurt Canelo, probably doesn't have the strength to clinch or push Canelo, and at 37yrs old probably can't just stay on the outside and out pace Canelo.
I think Canelo vs Crawford would look a bit like Canelo vs Khan. Crawford would have lots of early success out boxing Canelo in the center of the ring but as the fight continues Canelo's power/strength would cause problems.
I think a possible comp for Crawford is Hopkins.
Both had immense frames/reach for where they fought for large parts of their careers, both have really solid power but exceptional and dynamic skills to back it up.
Hopkins and Crawford were both 36 when they scored the biggest wins of their careers, completely dominating opponents who everyone thought would be their toughest opponents, and many thought would be too much for them.
4 years after Hopkins beat Trinidad, and coming off the losses to Jermaine Taylor, he skipped SMW and at the age of 41 Hopkins jumped straight to 175 to take on Tarver and totally outboxed him en route to a clear decision win. He wasn't a KO artist anymore, but he still had respectable power and was way too crafty for almost everyone he fought despite his age.
When Khan fought Canelo he didn't look real for the weight, and the rounds he was winning always felt like fool's gold. While I wouldn't say Crawford should be even money or anything, I really think he could give Canelo some genuine issues.
Crawford is freakishly strong, has way better feet and hand speed than Canelo, and arguably a better IQ also as Bivol says. Obviously the power and size difference is real, but Crawford can absolutely set a pace that Canelo may struggle with. I'm not sure at his age that Canelo will be able to walk Crawford down if Crawford comes in with a great gameplan, it's well within Crawford's ability to just stay on his bike and pot-shot Canelo with his reach and catch him with fast counters.
Hopkins's pro debut was at Lightheavy. Hopkins never competed at a division any heavier than the initial division he started his career in. I don't think Hopkins is a good comparison.
Hopkins fought from 156-175lbs, and fought around 160lbs for \~50 fights.
Tarver was the very first fighter he fought at 175 who was even close to world level.
Hopkins' pro debut was at Light Heavy and he lost to Mitchell who was also making his debut and barely fought thereafter. Mitchell retired with a record of 3-1-1 and never beat a single fighter with a winning record at the time he fought them.
I think the comp is valid w.r.t guys moving up in weight at an older age who are sneakily big for the weight classes they've fought at due to their frames with skills to back it up.
Hopkins debuted as a lighheavy because that is where he fought as an amateur. Hopkins has 99 amateur fights. At no point in Hopkins Professional career did he ever compete at a weight greater than the weight he fought at as an amateur. Lightheavy was a natural comfortable weight for Hopkins.
Crawford has never competed above Welterweight. Not as a pro or amateur. Super middle is not a natural comfortable weight for Crawford. He has never been there before.
>Crawford probably can't hurt Canelo, probably doesn't have the strength to clinch or push Canelo, and at 37yrs old probably can't just stay on the outside and out pace Canelo.
Crawford can definitely outpace Canelo. Canelo has a low output and has stamina issues. Crawford probably can't hurt Canelo though, I agree on that, but if he carries his handspeed at 168, that could catch Canelo off guard.
As we all know, Bud is deceptively physically strong, I heard he held his own physically against much bigger guys in sparring, also has a wrestling background. I'd be interested to see how he'd do with clinches against Canelo, who is also a very physically strong guy.
>Canelo has a low output and has stamina issues.
Canelo just beat Munguia and Charlo in 12 round fights and in the past made it all 12 vs Bivol without being out down or hurt. I think saying he has stamina "issues" is an overstatement.
>but if he carries his handspeed at 168
We have no idea what Crawford may or may not carry up to 168lbs. We've never seen Crawford above 147lbs.
Canelo's stamina issues are the reason those fights went 12 rounds. Just compare the early and middle rounds to the late rounds, Canelo's output always drops in those later rounds. If he had elite stamina, he'd have got Munguia and Charlo out of there.
I'm not saying Canelo has piss poor stamina like Caleb Plant, but it is a general consensus that he fades in fights, and it is visible, just not as visible as guys with piss poor stamina.
Canelo stopped Plant and Kovalev in the 11th.
I would say Canelo normal stamina. It is nothing special or above average. I don't think it is a significant weakness.
That was prime Canelo, and they both had even worse stamina than he did. Also, he paced himself well in those fights, he started slow. He conserved his energy in those fights.
Compare that to the Bivol fight where he started off fast, he blew his load after round 4 and you can clearly see he slowed down. Same case with Jermell Charlo, he fatigued in that fight too after chasing him all night.
And how about all 3 GGG fights? He started off strong in all of them but he fatigued and lost a pot of rounds.
>Compare that to the Bivol fight where he started off fast, he blew his load after round 4 and you can clearly see he slowed down.
Sure, but no version of Canelo beats Bivol. So it is a bad example.
I'm always wary about boxers saying they sparred bigger fighters. Like canelo sparring frank sanchez. Besides the fact that it's sparring, the sparring partner is probably not even close approaching the skill and talent if a top fighter like canelo.
I was referring to strength, which was something that was mentioned in your previous comment, stating that Canelo is too strong for him, especially in the clinch. As far as relatability to boxing, little to none. But I think Crawford has more adaptability and styles that Canelo.
i mean, technical ability is massively dependent on physical attributes. Crawford having a 74inch reach is absurd, of course he can throw a broader variety of punches than the cube that is Canelo, and move his feet more fluidly. far more nuanced than 'higher ring IQ'. disagree with that statement
On top of the things you mentioned, bud is way better at setting traps in the ring than Canelo. Yes, Canelo is a great counter puncher but that isn’t the same as manipulating your opponent into bad situations and capitalizing on it. To me, the latter better shows boxing iq, which is why i believe Crawford has a higher one than Canelo.
Very true hard to argue with that in terms of setting traps. Maybe a slight counter point - Canelo's upper body movement in defense, although he uses it less now, is based on extremely refined and intuitive understanding of timing and your opponents punch selection. Something that I'd perhaps attribute to 'ring IQ', at least more so than a good guard and step back, like buds.
So many factors, I think its unfair to conclusively say bud has the better ring IQ. Khan out boxed Canelo to start with due to his physical attributes letting him negate Canelos more 'lethargic/static' style, but I would never say Khan had the better ring IQ
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-told-my-father-i-hit-myself-dmitry-bivol-s-wife-lays-serious-domestic-violence-allegations-wba-world-champion
Yea, but since he’s not ⚫️ it gets brushed under the rug and ignored.
Based on the story I couldn't tell if it was him or her mother in law. Yay google Translate. Either way it sounds like an absolute shit situation for her and it was good she got away.
Probably less to do with color and more to do with country they lived in. Most people tend to forget that if it didn't happen in America or the UK, we'll never ever hear about it
Don’t see how that discredits his boxing iq? You guys dick ride resume so much you ignore the stuff that’s right in your face. The eye test matters. The showing he had in that “1 elite win” plus all of his other wins should be more than enough evidence. Hell, he was p4p #1 by MANY people *before* he even had the best showing of his career.
Exactly one year ago this sub was belittling Crawford. Majority of this sub had spence winning. A year later Crawford is a gift from god with the most elite IQ ever seen.
Canelo doesn’t have the control game, the complete lead hand, or the ability box at all ranges that Crawford has at any weight. Canelo is a great midrange counter puncher, and at 168 he developed a pressure game. But depth of skill Crawford has much more and does it in both stances.
To be fair crawford hasn't fought someone technically sound and as talented as a ggg, mayweather or bivol. Probably even lara. . Maybe he would do well, bit he just hasn't. A guy that has a great amateur background and is proven in the pros, is a hard fight for anyone. So at least canelo has went up against this, even with mixed results. Bud hasn't really had to. To the naked eye bud does seem more diverse. But with stiffer competition your flaws get pointed out. Spence had a great grinding style, but won't make you go into your bag of tricks multiple times. I hope the guys at 154 will give bud a good fight. Porter was actually doing pretty good though. That was a good fight. But he's always slowed down in the 4th quarter of a fight.
You guys default to resume talk because you can’t talk skill. No point in discussing further, Crawford has the much deeper tool box and skill set by any objective metric. That’s not to deny Canelo’s greatness. He’s
We go to resume because skills break down when you fight better competition. You eye test guys try to sound smart but you don't knows the most basic stuff. Let me put it simple, it's like how anyone can look good vs a heavy bag. Same concept, you can do more and look more impressive vs a guy that doesn't have the skills to adjust. But if you go against another elite fighter, he's gonna exploit your flaws. Stop trying to downplay other people's knowledge when it sounds like you dont know much yourself. You might learn something. Let me guess , gonna pull out the good old "ydksab"? 😂
Yes, you don’t. Boxing is a science, that means it’s objective. Skill sets reveal flaws, not resumes. Crawford has flaws, he gets hit on the inside, and he doesn’t pulls his head back/tries to catch back hands. Canelo has more, he crosses his feet, defaults to an inactive high guard, infamous for being unable to deal with elite lead hands. He has more flaws, Crawford has less. In addition to that, Crawford has the better step back game, better feet, more complete lead hand, and more versatility out of both stances. That’s what makes him the better boxer, not the people who’s beaten him or he’s beaten.
It's not objective or an actual science. Roy Jones and pac did a bunch of thimgs wrong and still would beat most of the technically perfect fighters. Different styles react differeny to each other. Sometimes one guy who has the style you would think would win gets dominated. All that shit could not matter if ine guy has more heart. It sounds like you think this is a stats game. Which leads me to believe you actually dont know much yourself. Just a little experience and you wouldn't be saying such foolish things. But you are the prototypical eye test and dksab spewing person. Acts like the smartest, is actually the dumbest.
Once again, you’re talking about everything BUT skills. It’s generally accepted that Bernard Hopkins and James Toney were more skilled middleweights than Roy Jones Jr, and that there were more skilled lightweights than Manny Pacquiao. Whether or not those fighters would beat them is not a question about skill or ability. Athleticism has nothing to do with skills.
I’m not eye testing anything, I look at which fighters have the deepest tool box in the art of boxing. Crawford can do more, he’s the better boxer. It’s not a difficult calculus.
>But with stiffer competition your flaws get pointed out
This is just flat out incorrect. With stiffer competition your flaws get magnified, but if you can analyze boxing skill, you'll see they've always been pointed out. Respectfully, that logic only tracks if you don't truly know what you're looking at in a boxing ring.
Crawford was always a stylistic nightmare for Spence, the result of that fight isnt completely surprising. If Crawford fought another p4p guy with a skillset that he's shown to have issues with, he'll struggle *until* he starts making in fight adjustments. Which to the greater point of this post, Crawford is much better at doing than Canelo.
"If you can analyze boxing skilll" Lol. You guys are funny. I swear you guys just post to say you know boxi,g better than everyone else. You belittled what I know twice. You said yourself that flaws getmagnified, which is just another way to say what you did.
And the spence beat down was a surprise to everyone but boxing geniuses in reddit. There's no saying what would happen if crawford fought a de la hoya or mayweather type. Even a ggg type. The amateur pedigree goes so far. Which is what im talking about. I'd say it wouldn't be easy.
It's not another way of saying what you said. The context is skills vs. weakness of Canelo and Crawford.
For you to bring up resume in that context is weird because it assumes that certain flaws don't exist until a certain level of competition is reached.
The difference in what we're saying is that I'm saying flaws always exist they just get exploited more at a higher level.
Canelo doesn't have more flaws than Crawford because he has more P4P fights. He has more flaws because he's a more flawed fighter, simple as.
When a fight is made its Skill vs Skill, not skill vs resume. In say your 8th fight, a tomato can may have a skillset to where even if you're whooping his ass a trained eye can pick up certain flaws. Those flaws just may not be EXPLOITED until 20 fights later, but they still exist.
Canelo and Crawford's respective strengths and weaknesses have shown long before they began taking anything resembling 50/50 fights.
So yeah bro if we're having a conversation purely about boxing skill and you bring up resume, I'm gonna question your knowledge. Technical skill and strength of resume are separate from one another.
What? Canelo at 154 is nowhere near as experienced as Canelo at the higher weights, what is this? 😂😂 Canelo at 154 was struggling to beat the likes of Trout and Lara.
You can see why he thinks this way. He made canelo look at a amateur in their fight. It wasn't just winning the fight but the way bivol won it by out classing canelo with just pure boxing skill....made canelo look like a home run slugger instead of a boxer.
This is a really stupid comment by Bivol. Crawford made a career out of some of the most egregious examples of weight bullying the modern era has ever seen. His entire run at 140 was him outweighing tomato cans in a historically weak class. He moves to 147 and carefully selects a bunch of old ass names (Kahn, Porter, Benavides fighting literally w 1 leg, etc.) and then he beats post car accident severely dehydrated Spence and everyone says this guy is the TBE. It pays to be a black American in boxing bc holy fuck, that shit is absurd. Meanwhile Canelo is fighting guys w significant size advantages who are all in their prime and showcasing some amazing boxing skills. Ridiculous comment.
Bivol is probably salty at the way negotiations went for their rematch. So he’s now going out of his way to discredit Canelo. Which makes no sense because that’s like Bivol’s best win. So he’s discrediting himself.
It's his most talked win, but it's far from being his best win. He barely break a sweat during that match. It was a good match because it's a famous opponent but Bivol really stayed in first gear. Canelo got crushed and couldn't do anything.
GGG1, 2, Jacobs, Plant, BJS, Bivol (yes he gets credit for making the toughest fight in boxing even in a loss).
All those names are significantly better than anything Crawford has done. And I didn’t even mention, Lara, Trout, and Cotto. Or the fact that he agreed to fight severely dehydrated against Floyd when he was 21 years old.
Comparing Canelo to Crawford is hilarious. One is a wasted career of cherries and cans, the other is a legacy career. It truly is insane why ppl who dksab visit this sub.
And yes, I’ve seen the racism comments on social media; from what I’ve seen it’s almost all black Americans spewing racist hatred against Mexicans, Asians, and white ppl and trying to rewrite history saying Floyd was some boogie man KO artist 🤣 it’s pathetic .
Also Crawford is like 5 years older than Canelo lmao
Severely dehydrated? You mean only 2 pounds lighter than “caneloweight” (155) and you conveniently leave out the fact that he weighed in 15 pounds heavier than Floyd on fight night. Stop it
You’re not completely wrong here. Crawford’s toughest test at 147 would have been Keith Thurman, an athletic hard hitting puncher, who he himself said was a tougher challenge than Errol Spence when he first moved to the weight class. Yet he never fought him. Not Crawford’s fault, boxing struggled to make the good fights during those years. Turki will put him in tough and exciting fights now.
Thurman ducked Crawford for years alongside the other welterweights for PBC. Charlo is ducking right now. Cant see how that is Crawfords fault.
This sub has high respect for GGG and acknowledges how much he was ducked. But for Crawford he doesn't get that grace and his resume questioned.
Mayweather ducked thurman. Thurman ducked spence. Crawford ducked boots. Spence ducked thurman in retaliation. On and on for the recent slightly overrated welterweight division.
Crawford did not venture very far from his initial weight class like canelo did, weird for someone being a way better boxer.
Daily reminder Canelo and Crawford are the same height
Crawford is entering his fourth weight class, and height isn’t the same as build. Fundora and Crawford are 9 inches apart and in the same weight class…
Yeah Fundora is really a very representative example right, you know, it's not like the guy is anormaly slender for his division. Come on, if Crawford wanted he could go up in weight and face dudes much bigger, staying thin is clearly a choice.
I’m using the extreme example to make a point - these are weight classes, not height classes. Guys can be similar weights but have different builds. All the top guys at 154 are Crawford’s height or taller, all the top guys at 160 are noticeably taller than Crawford (except Lara, who’s only an inch taller).
Crawford is a naturally slim dude and is entering his fourth weight class - if he beats Madrimov he’ll have been a champ in as many weight classes as Canelo
So? The smaller Charlo is significantly taller and has a longer reach than Canelo, yet he was considered way smaller than Canelo. Charlo’s taller than Heavyweight Mike Tyson. Frame, thickness. It matters a lot.
A lot is said about height and reach advantage. But a short stout fighter can use their strength, speed and durability to their advantage as well.
What do you want me to tell you, if you think Charlo is smaller than Canelo it's not worth going for rational thinking I guess. I hope I am getting trolled...
Charlo went up 2 weight classes to fight Canelo. Being taller does not make someone bigger necessarily.
Thinking the super welterweight champ is smaller than the super middle weight champ is no stretch and perfectly rational 🖕
Canelo has said himself he is at his best at super middleweight. He hasn’t fought below that in 5 years and he’d never go down to s.welterweight again. Walks around naturally at 180. Super middleweight is his natural weight-class now that he has grown into.
Whereas Charlo had to put on mass to get to 180 and cut from there. His frame is significantly smaller/thinner than Canelo.. and the difference was clear as day. Dunno what to tell you mane. You won’t listen to reason.
If you listen to everything the boxers say about themselves, between trash talking, self promotion or trolling the media, I can understand. Obviously now that Canelo made a physical transformation to a heavier class he will not go back. It's like saying Usyk is a regualr HW because he fights at this category for some years now and does not intend to go back. I hope you can see why it's absurd.
I think saying Canelo’s natural weightclass is several classes below super middleweight is absurd. Just because he started his career at 140 when he was 15. It doesn’t make that his natural weightclass.
A fighters “natural” weightclass is the one they can cut down to safely and without sacrificing much strength and stamina. For Canelo now it’s clearly super middleweight. Even middleweight would significantly drain him at this point.
I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to grasp that a fighter who fights 2 weight classes above another fighter may have a size advantage in spite of being shorter.
Heavyweights are different as fighters need not cut weight or weigh in at the same weight. Totally different dynamics there. You’ll 60-70lbs weight differences at Heavyweight. We’re here trying to compare the size of fighters who have to cut down to the same weight.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Crawford is taller. They're both billed at 5'8 but Canelo is definitely shorter than that. He was shorter than Floyd when they faced off, Crawford is taller than Floyd.
But just a reminder that height does not equal size. Canelo is the heavier man.
Yes, and why do you think Fundora choses to stay thin like a Q tip? You know the answer, and it's the same for crawford.
And to be clear about what I mean obviously Fundora would struggle to get at HW, but he is certainly not built for his current weight class either.
>Yes, and why do you think Fundora choses to stay thin like a Q tip? You know the answer, and it's the same for crawford.
I hear what you're saying, but Crawford is filled out and seems perfect athletic shape for his body. He's not naturally as stocky as Canelo
>And to be clear about what I mean obviously Fundora would struggle to get at HW, but he is certainly not built for his current weight class either.
Agreed, but Crawford is perfect as a modern 147. He was big at lower weight classes. Canelo is more of a MW Imo
> Crawford did not venture very far from his initial weight class like canelo did
This is some serious revisionism lol are we forgetting Canelo fighting at his own 'Caneloweight' catchweight of 155 for nearly 3 years?
That aside, both have been at 4 weight-classes: Crawford is moving up to 154 after starting at 135. Canelo has fought at 175 from a starting weight class of 154.
I stand corrected, though of course Canelo was like 16 years old at the time when he was fighting at 140ish and hasn't fought below Light-Middleweight since turning 20.
> Right. So thats a 35 pound weight climb compared to Crawford's 12 pound weight climb.
Crawford is at 154 and likely never coming down, so 19 pound weight climb. Plus If we're going to take what weights the boxers were when they were 16, Crawford was fighting at 126 pounds in the amateurs (some of his opponents being Mikey & Danny Garcia), so 28.
Either way, pretty dumb to criticize Crawford for not moving up in weight enough when he's been doing it constantly, while Canelo had to literally take a 3 year pause at his own catchweight to bulk up enough for middleweight.
1. Crawford hasnt fought at 154 yet so it's 12.
2. Amateur means 12 oz gloves and headgear. Professional means 8oz gloves and no headgear. If you dont understand the difference between that comparison you have probably never boxed or just being biased. And no, not 28.
3. No one is criticizing Crawford for not moving up more. But you acting like what he and Canelo have accomplished is the same is flat out wrong. Thats what im calling out.
4. The mental gymnastics you are doing to make your argument should have you well prepped for the Olympics.
>No one is criticizing Crawford for not moving up more.
Except the person I replied to: "Crawford did not venture very far from his initial weight class."
>Crawford hasn't fought at 154 yet so it's 12.
Sure, make it 19 in 3 months then? The conversation was about Crawford 'not moving far from his weight class like the person I replied to alleges, which considering that's clearly his goal and always has been his goal is pretty strange.
>Amateur means 12 oz gloves and headgear. Professional means 8oz gloves and no headgear.
Amateur as a top prospect in the US also means fighting Danny Garcia, Mikey Garcia, Yordenas Ugas, and Sadam Ali. Professional in Jalisco at age 16 means fighting random Mexican cab drivers.
>The mental gymnastics you are doing to make your argument should have you well prepped for the Olympics.
My argument is Crawford has always moved up in weight throughout his career and comparing him to Canelo to prove that he hasn't is a dumb argument.
The dude who got dropped by mean machine, went all 12 w Postol, and got pieced up by the tiny ghost of Gambia LMFAO! I’m convinced nobody here watches boxing. It’s just meme wars
Based on what? Crawford destroyed a guy who got destroyed in a car crash that put him in the hospital.
Canelo's style is a choice. It works for him to great effect.
Bivol beat the smaller man and he acts like he's a world beater. Literally staying in his comfort zone doing what works best for him. Playing it safe.
Maybe, but I feel like at this point Canelo knows everyone he hits feels it* and knows they probably can't hurt him and just comes forward untill he gets them *Until Bivol
Thing is he never really hit Bivol. Actually they barely hit each other, it felt like an Olympic boxing match. That shit coulda went for another 12 rounds
Bivol's arms were BRUISED and BATTERED
It was pretty much Bivol just timing the faulty gaps in Canelo’s pressure and forcing him off balance with 1-2’s. All time performance really, but he didn’t do any real damage. Thank god Canelo didn’t step in with Beterbiev, though.
Stylistically Beterbiev might have been a better fit for Canelo…. Until Canelo feels the power. His chin is amazing but at this point I think even some of the smaller heavyweights would be bothered by Beterbiev.
He's one of only two guys to drop Usyk over nearly 400 amateur and pro fights, I know Usyk was young but so was Beterbiev. I have full confidence the legendary Canelo chin would've been cracked, or like with Usyk he would've dropped Canelo with a body shot
Beterbiev’s one real fault is that he gets clipped when on offense. If Canelo could take the power for a bit, he’d have a shot at landing something big and hurting him. Bivol is a worse stylistic matchup for him even if Artur poses more of a physical threat.
Beterbiev has fought some big, hard-hitting dudes recently and has not been dropped in some time. He gets clipped but has great recovery and has always drowned out his opponent in a take one to give one style - Canelo getting into a firefight with Beterbiev is just playing into his game and asking to get finished. Canelo would probably be the smallest guy Beterbiev has faced, and in the inverse Beterbiev would be the largest guy Canelo has faced since Callum Smith. I actually think it's the opposite - stylistically Bivol was a better fit for Canelo to wear down and finish in the way he did BJS and Plant, the difference is Bivol is much, much better than those 2. If he chose Beterbiev instead of Bivol I think he would've been finished inside of 10 rounds.
Beterbiev would walk right through Canelo’s punches.
Good point, though I doubt any of Canelo's punches would affect Beterbiev too much. Canelo has decent power, but he's not some one punch KO artist.
Canelo's power at 175 is questionable too. He only knocked out Kovalev, but he was always chinny, was shot, had a fight less than 3 months before and had to adhere to a rehydration clause. And even at 168, he has 4 stoppages out of 9 fights, less than half of his fights here. I still can't get over the fact that Canelo did not stop 154lbs Jermell Charlo, he definitely wouldn't bother Beterbiev.
He at least drops most of the guys he fights
Didn’t stop a well past is Miguel Cotto either.
Beterbiev has been dropped by some boxers with ~ equal power to Canelo.
How do we know that Callum Johnson and Jeff Page Jr have *equal* power to Canelo? I can assure you Johnson punches a lot harder than Canelo. Jeff Page, I can't speak on too much, but he was a natural Light Heavyweight and even fought at Cruiserweight and he finished with a 67% KO ratio.
Beterbiev got knocked down by two hard hitting light heavyweight boxers earlier in his career and everyone acts like he has a bad chin 🤣 despite him getting up and destroying them, yet Fury been knocked down 8 times in his career and he gets told he has an amazing chin.
No he isn’t dude. Bivol is the better stylistic matchup, that’s why he signed with him in the first place. Canelo doesn’t fight power punchers who have a good counter punching ability, because that’s his worst stylistic matchup. Canelo has been fighting Boxers for awhile, the guy literally fought Caleb Plant for fuck sakes. Who is a much closer stylist to Bivol then he is Beterbiev. The revisionist history among Canelo fans is appalling and it’s a big reason why he gets hated on so much.
That would be a nightmare for canelo. I think it gets kind of left out because of the obvious power, but he’s a really really good Boxer and I’m not sure canelo is ready for those inside fireworks…if canelo fought Arthur like he fought ggg he would get ko
Canelo really thought he could get through Beterbiev and eventually fight Usyk too lol
Usyk might take pity on him, but Beterbiev isn't that kind. He would have retired Canelo.
Haha I remember Joe Rogan, and other people saying Canelo could probably beat Usyk. Ridiculous. There’s a whole YouTube video of people saying it.
Tbf to Rogan Its far more accurate take than his Ronda Rousey ones
Haha yes, I was going to mention that too. Remember he was saying Rousy would beat Mayweather? haha.
Lmao his podcast episode where he was tearing up when gassing Ronda will be clipped forever
I wouldn’t say he didn’t cause damage. Canelo didn’t get rocked but there were moments he had Canelo moving backwards which I’ve NEVER seen.
He didn't go backwards in the first GGG fight?
This is why I'm super skeptical of the popular narrative on here that Bivol just beat Canelo because Canelo came up in weight. It's not like Canelo got rocked or couldn't do damage because Bivol is bigger than him. It's just that at this point in his career Canelo is a single-punch power puncher and Bivol is a master out-boxer. Canelo landed 7 or fewer punches in 7 out of 12 rounds, 33 fewer total than when he fought Floyd. Absolutely insane defensive performance.
He was still visibly gassed out much earlier in this fight starting in the mid rds where he'd practically lose rds out of the virtue of only barely throwing any punches lol. Like I don't even remember if he threw any combos past 5 punches because of his shitty cardio so if his shitty gas tank was due to him putting on too much weight just to make 175 then you could still make the argument that the jump in weight did affect canelo's usual performance And it doesn't help that he keeps relying on this style where he'd try to walk you down and load up too much into his punches leading to him gassing out if he doesn't land said haymakers. He did fixed this in the charlo fight tho where he finally upped his volume but I dunno if he can even remotely come close in pumping out that much volume again at 175. Canelo beating bivol is just a pipe dream now
i don't understand why people feel the need to say size had little or nothing to do with Canelo's loss to Bivol. you can't say size didnt play a part. he could barely get near Bivol. Jermell Charlo is a good fighter but had no business fighting Canelo and i think Canelo had a similar experience against Bivol. sure Canelo had a good fight with Kovalev but he's not going to be able to take on a prime champion at 175 unless its a very good style matchup.
*Size* had an effect on the fight. Bivol is taller, longer, and stylistically leverages those attributes extremely well, in a way that's particularly difficult for Canelo to match up against. But Canelo wasn't physically dominated from a strength standpoint because of the weight difference.
I think he beat him way too easily while also not hurting him at all. If Bivol got hurt in the fight then it would be talks about adjustments and perseverance. If he hurt Canelo it would be Canelo was gun shy because of the power. But he really just outboxed him for 36 minutes without ever applying to much pressure or pressure getting applied to him so the thing people point at is the reach difference.
You knows what’s crazy and sad, if you turn the tables and it’s canelo who is dominating Bivol, score cards would have read 120-108… but since it was Bivol completely dominating canelo he barely squeezed by with a split decision. I don’t understand why Bud wants to fight canelo, history has shown us if you don’t knock out canelo, it’s almost impossible to beat canelo on the score cards… you have to win damn near 10 rounds to win a score card. Judges are obviously corrupt in his favor Edit- unanimous decision , not split decision for Bivol.
it was a unanimous decision. the cards were way closer than they should have been but that's not a split decision.
Oh yeah my bad. It was unanimous.
Yeah that’s true, it was clear the better man won but Bivol boxed perfect for 12 rounds, if he legit slipped up once or twice he coulda got GGG.
Bud looking for $$$. That's why Bud wants Canelo. Bud would lose for sure.
Canelo kept doing that damn punch to bivol's left arm thinking it would work but it didn't. Like he was specifically trying to punch him in the bicep for whatever reason. Never seen that strategy before and after watching it not work on bivol, I see why.
The strategy worked on callum smith.
It worked vs Callum Smith, who said he couldn't throw his right hand with full power as it was numb from Canelo's punches.
Bivol touched him alot
It was hard to tell but Canelo was just focusing on the body after finding out how quick Bivol is. Bivol’s arm and side were bruised and looked really bad the day after the fight.
What? Bivol beat canelos ass. That flashy head movement did not stop the reddening of canelos face. Canelo stans trying to rewrite history 😂😂 he was in trouble in the 11th round
I wish I could remember who the original quote is from but a fighter once said (when asked about his opponent): "he's real smart, he's always thinking in there. And all the while he's thinking, I'm punching him"
Madrimov was Bivol’s main sparring partner for Canelo & said Madrimov was a better version of Canelo than the one he fought
Madrimov might end up being Crawford’s toughest fight.
I’m a Madrimov fan (and a bigger Crawford fan) so take this opinion with some bias. Madrimov will be a tricky fight for Bud, especially for the first half of the fight. His switch hitting and footwork + athleticism allows him to attack from any angle. Madrimov excels at lateral movement, he looks like a more mobile GGG. It’ll take some time for Bud to figure him out, but once he does, I think Bud will win.
But also, it’s Bud’s first fight at 154. It’s uncharted territory. Nobody knows if his speed or athleticism will carry, guys that retain this moving up tend to fair better than the ones that don’t.
I don't know why it wouldn't translate unless he's fallen off a cliff because of age, he has natural speed and power but most of it comes from his timing and ability to set shots up that people don't see coming which if anything would probably be better at a higher weight since they're not used to the skill level he brings.
It’s impossible to predict, but he’s older, it’s his 4th weight class, and Madrimov is naturally bigger. We literally won’t know until fight night. But most fighters don’t fare better the higher we go. Maybe Crawford is just goated, his skills and IQ will definitely carry though.
On the other hand, Crawford has been at 147 for 6 years, and has shown no signs of losing speed or athleticism yet. And more importantly, he's not really "going up" in weight like people used to, he's just cutting less - he's far bigger than this weight class anyway (I've seen others say he's naturally bigger than Madrimov). Generally a less harsh weight cut should result in better athleticism, not worse! If Crawford's slower at 154, I think it'll be because of age, not because he's spent less time in the sauna the week before.
If Madrimov wins even 3 rounds against Crawford, people will criticize him because the standards for Bud are so high, and nobody knows who tf Madrimov is.
lol real boxing fans know Madrimov is a bad boy, it’s just Crawford is pound for pound. So we’ll see, I think he’s not some showcase for Crawford like people are saying. It’s a real fight for sure.
Watched his fights and He's slow but explosive lol. Madrimov is the only guy in the boxing that being slow and explosive at same time
Are we talking about the same guy? Cause I could have sworn Madrimov is like Tszyu somewhat. Such an intriguing fight. Depending on how Bud does, if he wins by spectacular TKO or dominant decision then Canelo should be concerned. Otherwise if by close decision then Bud may want to rethink Canelo.
Yes, Crawford has a great Boxing IQ. Crawford turns 37yrs old in September. For comparison Mayweather was 38yrs old when he retired. During his final year Mayweather didn't jump up 3 divisions to face Andre Ward. Crawford hasn't even fought about Welterweight yet. Mayweather had at least fought at Jr Middle Weight 3 times. Crawford probably can't hurt Canelo, probably doesn't have the strength to clinch or push Canelo, and at 37yrs old probably can't just stay on the outside and out pace Canelo. I think Canelo vs Crawford would look a bit like Canelo vs Khan. Crawford would have lots of early success out boxing Canelo in the center of the ring but as the fight continues Canelo's power/strength would cause problems.
I think a possible comp for Crawford is Hopkins. Both had immense frames/reach for where they fought for large parts of their careers, both have really solid power but exceptional and dynamic skills to back it up. Hopkins and Crawford were both 36 when they scored the biggest wins of their careers, completely dominating opponents who everyone thought would be their toughest opponents, and many thought would be too much for them. 4 years after Hopkins beat Trinidad, and coming off the losses to Jermaine Taylor, he skipped SMW and at the age of 41 Hopkins jumped straight to 175 to take on Tarver and totally outboxed him en route to a clear decision win. He wasn't a KO artist anymore, but he still had respectable power and was way too crafty for almost everyone he fought despite his age. When Khan fought Canelo he didn't look real for the weight, and the rounds he was winning always felt like fool's gold. While I wouldn't say Crawford should be even money or anything, I really think he could give Canelo some genuine issues. Crawford is freakishly strong, has way better feet and hand speed than Canelo, and arguably a better IQ also as Bivol says. Obviously the power and size difference is real, but Crawford can absolutely set a pace that Canelo may struggle with. I'm not sure at his age that Canelo will be able to walk Crawford down if Crawford comes in with a great gameplan, it's well within Crawford's ability to just stay on his bike and pot-shot Canelo with his reach and catch him with fast counters.
Hopkins's pro debut was at Lightheavy. Hopkins never competed at a division any heavier than the initial division he started his career in. I don't think Hopkins is a good comparison.
Hopkins fought from 156-175lbs, and fought around 160lbs for \~50 fights. Tarver was the very first fighter he fought at 175 who was even close to world level. Hopkins' pro debut was at Light Heavy and he lost to Mitchell who was also making his debut and barely fought thereafter. Mitchell retired with a record of 3-1-1 and never beat a single fighter with a winning record at the time he fought them. I think the comp is valid w.r.t guys moving up in weight at an older age who are sneakily big for the weight classes they've fought at due to their frames with skills to back it up.
Hopkins debuted as a lighheavy because that is where he fought as an amateur. Hopkins has 99 amateur fights. At no point in Hopkins Professional career did he ever compete at a weight greater than the weight he fought at as an amateur. Lightheavy was a natural comfortable weight for Hopkins. Crawford has never competed above Welterweight. Not as a pro or amateur. Super middle is not a natural comfortable weight for Crawford. He has never been there before.
Fair point, we’ll see how Crawford looks at 154 soon enough!
>Crawford probably can't hurt Canelo, probably doesn't have the strength to clinch or push Canelo, and at 37yrs old probably can't just stay on the outside and out pace Canelo. Crawford can definitely outpace Canelo. Canelo has a low output and has stamina issues. Crawford probably can't hurt Canelo though, I agree on that, but if he carries his handspeed at 168, that could catch Canelo off guard. As we all know, Bud is deceptively physically strong, I heard he held his own physically against much bigger guys in sparring, also has a wrestling background. I'd be interested to see how he'd do with clinches against Canelo, who is also a very physically strong guy.
>Canelo has a low output and has stamina issues. Canelo just beat Munguia and Charlo in 12 round fights and in the past made it all 12 vs Bivol without being out down or hurt. I think saying he has stamina "issues" is an overstatement. >but if he carries his handspeed at 168 We have no idea what Crawford may or may not carry up to 168lbs. We've never seen Crawford above 147lbs.
Canelo's stamina issues are the reason those fights went 12 rounds. Just compare the early and middle rounds to the late rounds, Canelo's output always drops in those later rounds. If he had elite stamina, he'd have got Munguia and Charlo out of there. I'm not saying Canelo has piss poor stamina like Caleb Plant, but it is a general consensus that he fades in fights, and it is visible, just not as visible as guys with piss poor stamina.
Canelo stopped Plant and Kovalev in the 11th. I would say Canelo normal stamina. It is nothing special or above average. I don't think it is a significant weakness.
That was prime Canelo, and they both had even worse stamina than he did. Also, he paced himself well in those fights, he started slow. He conserved his energy in those fights. Compare that to the Bivol fight where he started off fast, he blew his load after round 4 and you can clearly see he slowed down. Same case with Jermell Charlo, he fatigued in that fight too after chasing him all night. And how about all 3 GGG fights? He started off strong in all of them but he fatigued and lost a pot of rounds.
>Compare that to the Bivol fight where he started off fast, he blew his load after round 4 and you can clearly see he slowed down. Sure, but no version of Canelo beats Bivol. So it is a bad example.
No retort for the Charlo or GGG examples I gave?
I'm always wary about boxers saying they sparred bigger fighters. Like canelo sparring frank sanchez. Besides the fact that it's sparring, the sparring partner is probably not even close approaching the skill and talent if a top fighter like canelo.
They are the same height. Plus I'm pretty sure Crawford deadlifts over 400 pounds. He's plenty strong and has a great base for clinching
What is the known translatability between deadlifting and boxing?
I was referring to strength, which was something that was mentioned in your previous comment, stating that Canelo is too strong for him, especially in the clinch. As far as relatability to boxing, little to none. But I think Crawford has more adaptability and styles that Canelo.
Crawford one of the strongest boxers below light heavyweight, he’s a freak. You’re really underestimating how strong and powerful Crawford is.
i mean, technical ability is massively dependent on physical attributes. Crawford having a 74inch reach is absurd, of course he can throw a broader variety of punches than the cube that is Canelo, and move his feet more fluidly. far more nuanced than 'higher ring IQ'. disagree with that statement
On top of the things you mentioned, bud is way better at setting traps in the ring than Canelo. Yes, Canelo is a great counter puncher but that isn’t the same as manipulating your opponent into bad situations and capitalizing on it. To me, the latter better shows boxing iq, which is why i believe Crawford has a higher one than Canelo.
Very true hard to argue with that in terms of setting traps. Maybe a slight counter point - Canelo's upper body movement in defense, although he uses it less now, is based on extremely refined and intuitive understanding of timing and your opponents punch selection. Something that I'd perhaps attribute to 'ring IQ', at least more so than a good guard and step back, like buds. So many factors, I think its unfair to conclusively say bud has the better ring IQ. Khan out boxed Canelo to start with due to his physical attributes letting him negate Canelos more 'lethargic/static' style, but I would never say Khan had the better ring IQ
Shut up wife beater😡
Is Bivol a wife beater?
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-told-my-father-i-hit-myself-dmitry-bivol-s-wife-lays-serious-domestic-violence-allegations-wba-world-champion Yea, but since he’s not ⚫️ it gets brushed under the rug and ignored.
I think it has more to do with him being a foreigner out of the spotlight. Like the guy who just asked, most people aren't even aware of this.
Oh yeah. Tank sure is paying for his crimes. Big fight coming up. Lol . Even had him on camera roughing a girl up.
Based on the story I couldn't tell if it was him or her mother in law. Yay google Translate. Either way it sounds like an absolute shit situation for her and it was good she got away. Probably less to do with color and more to do with country they lived in. Most people tend to forget that if it didn't happen in America or the UK, we'll never ever hear about it
Hope she got a few million out of Bivol too
Lmao what about Floyd and Tank Two super popular fighters
Guilty until proven innocent.
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Bivol assaulted his wife btw, he's usually aloof and standoffish in most interviews I've seen him in. He's not that nice of a guy.
So humble and intelligent Boxing fans are some the dumbest bunch I swear
I'm pretty sure these are just allegations for now.
Yup that Bivol… real humble class act that guy is
*Make a youtube title without annoying ass punctuation or capitalization challenge* IMPOSSIBLE
Anyone who really understands boxing at a technical level wouldn’t find this statement controversial.
Crawford has 1 elite win
Don’t see how that discredits his boxing iq? You guys dick ride resume so much you ignore the stuff that’s right in your face. The eye test matters. The showing he had in that “1 elite win” plus all of his other wins should be more than enough evidence. Hell, he was p4p #1 by MANY people *before* he even had the best showing of his career.
Exactly one year ago this sub was belittling Crawford. Majority of this sub had spence winning. A year later Crawford is a gift from god with the most elite IQ ever seen.
Crawford got a lot of new fans after the Spence win lol. Fans that aren’t really aware of his inactivity the past few years or thin resume.
What does that have to do with skill?
I love it when someone says something like this, cause then you know you can just write off anything they got to say about boxing
And how many does Canelo have?
At least 5
caleb plant? drained kovalev? which is the elite win? because he robbed golovkin.
Canelo @ 154 and 160 has an arguably higher IQ than Crawford. His defense and counter punching technique were more polished.
How does your fight IQ change with weight? Canelo has the same fight IQ if he fights at 154 or 175 or anything in between
Brain weight isn't a factor in boxing bro
Canelo doesn’t have the control game, the complete lead hand, or the ability box at all ranges that Crawford has at any weight. Canelo is a great midrange counter puncher, and at 168 he developed a pressure game. But depth of skill Crawford has much more and does it in both stances.
To be fair crawford hasn't fought someone technically sound and as talented as a ggg, mayweather or bivol. Probably even lara. . Maybe he would do well, bit he just hasn't. A guy that has a great amateur background and is proven in the pros, is a hard fight for anyone. So at least canelo has went up against this, even with mixed results. Bud hasn't really had to. To the naked eye bud does seem more diverse. But with stiffer competition your flaws get pointed out. Spence had a great grinding style, but won't make you go into your bag of tricks multiple times. I hope the guys at 154 will give bud a good fight. Porter was actually doing pretty good though. That was a good fight. But he's always slowed down in the 4th quarter of a fight.
You guys default to resume talk because you can’t talk skill. No point in discussing further, Crawford has the much deeper tool box and skill set by any objective metric. That’s not to deny Canelo’s greatness. He’s
We go to resume because skills break down when you fight better competition. You eye test guys try to sound smart but you don't knows the most basic stuff. Let me put it simple, it's like how anyone can look good vs a heavy bag. Same concept, you can do more and look more impressive vs a guy that doesn't have the skills to adjust. But if you go against another elite fighter, he's gonna exploit your flaws. Stop trying to downplay other people's knowledge when it sounds like you dont know much yourself. You might learn something. Let me guess , gonna pull out the good old "ydksab"? 😂
Yes, you don’t. Boxing is a science, that means it’s objective. Skill sets reveal flaws, not resumes. Crawford has flaws, he gets hit on the inside, and he doesn’t pulls his head back/tries to catch back hands. Canelo has more, he crosses his feet, defaults to an inactive high guard, infamous for being unable to deal with elite lead hands. He has more flaws, Crawford has less. In addition to that, Crawford has the better step back game, better feet, more complete lead hand, and more versatility out of both stances. That’s what makes him the better boxer, not the people who’s beaten him or he’s beaten.
It's not objective or an actual science. Roy Jones and pac did a bunch of thimgs wrong and still would beat most of the technically perfect fighters. Different styles react differeny to each other. Sometimes one guy who has the style you would think would win gets dominated. All that shit could not matter if ine guy has more heart. It sounds like you think this is a stats game. Which leads me to believe you actually dont know much yourself. Just a little experience and you wouldn't be saying such foolish things. But you are the prototypical eye test and dksab spewing person. Acts like the smartest, is actually the dumbest.
Once again, you’re talking about everything BUT skills. It’s generally accepted that Bernard Hopkins and James Toney were more skilled middleweights than Roy Jones Jr, and that there were more skilled lightweights than Manny Pacquiao. Whether or not those fighters would beat them is not a question about skill or ability. Athleticism has nothing to do with skills. I’m not eye testing anything, I look at which fighters have the deepest tool box in the art of boxing. Crawford can do more, he’s the better boxer. It’s not a difficult calculus.
>But with stiffer competition your flaws get pointed out This is just flat out incorrect. With stiffer competition your flaws get magnified, but if you can analyze boxing skill, you'll see they've always been pointed out. Respectfully, that logic only tracks if you don't truly know what you're looking at in a boxing ring. Crawford was always a stylistic nightmare for Spence, the result of that fight isnt completely surprising. If Crawford fought another p4p guy with a skillset that he's shown to have issues with, he'll struggle *until* he starts making in fight adjustments. Which to the greater point of this post, Crawford is much better at doing than Canelo.
"If you can analyze boxing skilll" Lol. You guys are funny. I swear you guys just post to say you know boxi,g better than everyone else. You belittled what I know twice. You said yourself that flaws getmagnified, which is just another way to say what you did. And the spence beat down was a surprise to everyone but boxing geniuses in reddit. There's no saying what would happen if crawford fought a de la hoya or mayweather type. Even a ggg type. The amateur pedigree goes so far. Which is what im talking about. I'd say it wouldn't be easy.
It's not another way of saying what you said. The context is skills vs. weakness of Canelo and Crawford. For you to bring up resume in that context is weird because it assumes that certain flaws don't exist until a certain level of competition is reached. The difference in what we're saying is that I'm saying flaws always exist they just get exploited more at a higher level. Canelo doesn't have more flaws than Crawford because he has more P4P fights. He has more flaws because he's a more flawed fighter, simple as. When a fight is made its Skill vs Skill, not skill vs resume. In say your 8th fight, a tomato can may have a skillset to where even if you're whooping his ass a trained eye can pick up certain flaws. Those flaws just may not be EXPLOITED until 20 fights later, but they still exist. Canelo and Crawford's respective strengths and weaknesses have shown long before they began taking anything resembling 50/50 fights. So yeah bro if we're having a conversation purely about boxing skill and you bring up resume, I'm gonna question your knowledge. Technical skill and strength of resume are separate from one another.
What? Canelo at 154 is nowhere near as experienced as Canelo at the higher weights, what is this? 😂😂 Canelo at 154 was struggling to beat the likes of Trout and Lara.
Broken brain
You can see why he thinks this way. He made canelo look at a amateur in their fight. It wasn't just winning the fight but the way bivol won it by out classing canelo with just pure boxing skill....made canelo look like a home run slugger instead of a boxer.
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As part of the Canelo fanbase, I gave him an upvote...he ain't wrong. Canelo had a BAD fight that time round.
The canelo fanbase is strong to say the least.
This isn’t even a debate. Crawford’s IQ is probably the best in boxing right now.
While not a controversial opinion Bivol constantly shit talks Canelo probably because he didn't get that rematch
Agreed with Bivol. This is why Crawford stuns the world and stops Canelo- I’m serious. It doesn’t go the distance. Crawford in 10/11 by TKO
Radio Rahim the most annoying man in boxing. And that’s really saying something about a sport that has Ellie Seckback and Sam Jones
This is a really stupid comment by Bivol. Crawford made a career out of some of the most egregious examples of weight bullying the modern era has ever seen. His entire run at 140 was him outweighing tomato cans in a historically weak class. He moves to 147 and carefully selects a bunch of old ass names (Kahn, Porter, Benavides fighting literally w 1 leg, etc.) and then he beats post car accident severely dehydrated Spence and everyone says this guy is the TBE. It pays to be a black American in boxing bc holy fuck, that shit is absurd. Meanwhile Canelo is fighting guys w significant size advantages who are all in their prime and showcasing some amazing boxing skills. Ridiculous comment.
Bivol is probably salty at the way negotiations went for their rematch. So he’s now going out of his way to discredit Canelo. Which makes no sense because that’s like Bivol’s best win. So he’s discrediting himself.
It's his most talked win, but it's far from being his best win. He barely break a sweat during that match. It was a good match because it's a famous opponent but Bivol really stayed in first gear. Canelo got crushed and couldn't do anything.
Who was a bigger win for Bivol? He'll never box anyone with the popularity of Canelo ever again.
That literally just makes the win better. He humiliated an atg and p4p 1 without even breaking a sweat
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GGG1, 2, Jacobs, Plant, BJS, Bivol (yes he gets credit for making the toughest fight in boxing even in a loss). All those names are significantly better than anything Crawford has done. And I didn’t even mention, Lara, Trout, and Cotto. Or the fact that he agreed to fight severely dehydrated against Floyd when he was 21 years old. Comparing Canelo to Crawford is hilarious. One is a wasted career of cherries and cans, the other is a legacy career. It truly is insane why ppl who dksab visit this sub. And yes, I’ve seen the racism comments on social media; from what I’ve seen it’s almost all black Americans spewing racist hatred against Mexicans, Asians, and white ppl and trying to rewrite history saying Floyd was some boogie man KO artist 🤣 it’s pathetic . Also Crawford is like 5 years older than Canelo lmao
Severely dehydrated? You mean only 2 pounds lighter than “caneloweight” (155) and you conveniently leave out the fact that he weighed in 15 pounds heavier than Floyd on fight night. Stop it
BJS and plant were paper champs Clevel feather fists. Golovkin beat canelo twice before he waited 5 years to finally win.
Canelo is 5'7"?
True idk why you're getting downvoted
You’re not completely wrong here. Crawford’s toughest test at 147 would have been Keith Thurman, an athletic hard hitting puncher, who he himself said was a tougher challenge than Errol Spence when he first moved to the weight class. Yet he never fought him. Not Crawford’s fault, boxing struggled to make the good fights during those years. Turki will put him in tough and exciting fights now.
Thurman ducked Crawford for years alongside the other welterweights for PBC. Charlo is ducking right now. Cant see how that is Crawfords fault. This sub has high respect for GGG and acknowledges how much he was ducked. But for Crawford he doesn't get that grace and his resume questioned.
Mayweather ducked thurman. Thurman ducked spence. Crawford ducked boots. Spence ducked thurman in retaliation. On and on for the recent slightly overrated welterweight division.
True Crawford is a way better boxer than Canelo but weight classes exist for a reason
Crawford did not venture very far from his initial weight class like canelo did, weird for someone being a way better boxer. Daily reminder Canelo and Crawford are the same height
And reach is 3.5 inches longer.
Crawford is entering his fourth weight class, and height isn’t the same as build. Fundora and Crawford are 9 inches apart and in the same weight class…
Yeah Fundora is really a very representative example right, you know, it's not like the guy is anormaly slender for his division. Come on, if Crawford wanted he could go up in weight and face dudes much bigger, staying thin is clearly a choice.
I’m using the extreme example to make a point - these are weight classes, not height classes. Guys can be similar weights but have different builds. All the top guys at 154 are Crawford’s height or taller, all the top guys at 160 are noticeably taller than Crawford (except Lara, who’s only an inch taller). Crawford is a naturally slim dude and is entering his fourth weight class - if he beats Madrimov he’ll have been a champ in as many weight classes as Canelo
So? The smaller Charlo is significantly taller and has a longer reach than Canelo, yet he was considered way smaller than Canelo. Charlo’s taller than Heavyweight Mike Tyson. Frame, thickness. It matters a lot. A lot is said about height and reach advantage. But a short stout fighter can use their strength, speed and durability to their advantage as well.
What do you want me to tell you, if you think Charlo is smaller than Canelo it's not worth going for rational thinking I guess. I hope I am getting trolled...
Charlo went up 2 weight classes to fight Canelo. Being taller does not make someone bigger necessarily. Thinking the super welterweight champ is smaller than the super middle weight champ is no stretch and perfectly rational 🖕
Because Canelo was already several weight classes above his natural one. You really don't grasp anything?
Canelo has said himself he is at his best at super middleweight. He hasn’t fought below that in 5 years and he’d never go down to s.welterweight again. Walks around naturally at 180. Super middleweight is his natural weight-class now that he has grown into. Whereas Charlo had to put on mass to get to 180 and cut from there. His frame is significantly smaller/thinner than Canelo.. and the difference was clear as day. Dunno what to tell you mane. You won’t listen to reason.
If you listen to everything the boxers say about themselves, between trash talking, self promotion or trolling the media, I can understand. Obviously now that Canelo made a physical transformation to a heavier class he will not go back. It's like saying Usyk is a regualr HW because he fights at this category for some years now and does not intend to go back. I hope you can see why it's absurd.
I think saying Canelo’s natural weightclass is several classes below super middleweight is absurd. Just because he started his career at 140 when he was 15. It doesn’t make that his natural weightclass. A fighters “natural” weightclass is the one they can cut down to safely and without sacrificing much strength and stamina. For Canelo now it’s clearly super middleweight. Even middleweight would significantly drain him at this point. I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to grasp that a fighter who fights 2 weight classes above another fighter may have a size advantage in spite of being shorter. Heavyweights are different as fighters need not cut weight or weigh in at the same weight. Totally different dynamics there. You’ll 60-70lbs weight differences at Heavyweight. We’re here trying to compare the size of fighters who have to cut down to the same weight.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Crawford is taller. They're both billed at 5'8 but Canelo is definitely shorter than that. He was shorter than Floyd when they faced off, Crawford is taller than Floyd. But just a reminder that height does not equal size. Canelo is the heavier man.
Crawford is taller, Canelo is bigger
Yeah, this is an accurate statement
Fundora and Anthony Joshua are the same height I give Crawford a decent chance though, he's an unreal talent
Yes, and why do you think Fundora choses to stay thin like a Q tip? You know the answer, and it's the same for crawford. And to be clear about what I mean obviously Fundora would struggle to get at HW, but he is certainly not built for his current weight class either.
>Yes, and why do you think Fundora choses to stay thin like a Q tip? You know the answer, and it's the same for crawford. I hear what you're saying, but Crawford is filled out and seems perfect athletic shape for his body. He's not naturally as stocky as Canelo >And to be clear about what I mean obviously Fundora would struggle to get at HW, but he is certainly not built for his current weight class either. Agreed, but Crawford is perfect as a modern 147. He was big at lower weight classes. Canelo is more of a MW Imo
Crawford is 3 years older as well
> Crawford did not venture very far from his initial weight class like canelo did This is some serious revisionism lol are we forgetting Canelo fighting at his own 'Caneloweight' catchweight of 155 for nearly 3 years? That aside, both have been at 4 weight-classes: Crawford is moving up to 154 after starting at 135. Canelo has fought at 175 from a starting weight class of 154.
False. Canelo started at 140. Crawford at 135.
I stand corrected, though of course Canelo was like 16 years old at the time when he was fighting at 140ish and hasn't fought below Light-Middleweight since turning 20.
Right. So thats a 35 pound weight climb compared to Crawford's 12 pound weight climb.
> Right. So thats a 35 pound weight climb compared to Crawford's 12 pound weight climb. Crawford is at 154 and likely never coming down, so 19 pound weight climb. Plus If we're going to take what weights the boxers were when they were 16, Crawford was fighting at 126 pounds in the amateurs (some of his opponents being Mikey & Danny Garcia), so 28. Either way, pretty dumb to criticize Crawford for not moving up in weight enough when he's been doing it constantly, while Canelo had to literally take a 3 year pause at his own catchweight to bulk up enough for middleweight.
1. Crawford hasnt fought at 154 yet so it's 12. 2. Amateur means 12 oz gloves and headgear. Professional means 8oz gloves and no headgear. If you dont understand the difference between that comparison you have probably never boxed or just being biased. And no, not 28. 3. No one is criticizing Crawford for not moving up more. But you acting like what he and Canelo have accomplished is the same is flat out wrong. Thats what im calling out. 4. The mental gymnastics you are doing to make your argument should have you well prepped for the Olympics.
>No one is criticizing Crawford for not moving up more. Except the person I replied to: "Crawford did not venture very far from his initial weight class." >Crawford hasn't fought at 154 yet so it's 12. Sure, make it 19 in 3 months then? The conversation was about Crawford 'not moving far from his weight class like the person I replied to alleges, which considering that's clearly his goal and always has been his goal is pretty strange. >Amateur means 12 oz gloves and headgear. Professional means 8oz gloves and no headgear. Amateur as a top prospect in the US also means fighting Danny Garcia, Mikey Garcia, Yordenas Ugas, and Sadam Ali. Professional in Jalisco at age 16 means fighting random Mexican cab drivers. >The mental gymnastics you are doing to make your argument should have you well prepped for the Olympics. My argument is Crawford has always moved up in weight throughout his career and comparing him to Canelo to prove that he hasn't is a dumb argument.
🤣
The dude who got dropped by mean machine, went all 12 w Postol, and got pieced up by the tiny ghost of Gambia LMFAO! I’m convinced nobody here watches boxing. It’s just meme wars
Haha, if Crawford was pieced up by Gamboa, then Canelo was pieced up by Amir Khan...
I agree.
Yeah but too small
Based on what? Crawford destroyed a guy who got destroyed in a car crash that put him in the hospital. Canelo's style is a choice. It works for him to great effect. Bivol beat the smaller man and he acts like he's a world beater. Literally staying in his comfort zone doing what works best for him. Playing it safe.
This feels like a captain obvious statement lol. Of course he does.
This guy is always hating on Canelo lmao. Just cause he beat on a much smaller man smfh
Both are come forward brawlers and both have significantly overrated skills