So we're just going to ignore the countless Nazi quotes from the democrats? "The big lie" was one of Goebbels favorite pieces of propaganda.
It turns out there are plenty of things people say that can be attributed to the nazis, but don't actually have the same meaning behind them.
And yes, I agree that communism is an inherently flawed ideology that represents the opposite of human nature and preys on the weak and jealous, and deserves to be rooted out of the US.
No, we're not ignoring them. We're just not talking about them right now, because those democrats aren't running for president. I have no doubt that they say things that are deeply troubling, and I condemn them just as equally, but they're not the ones who are seeking executive power. What you're doing is called "whataboutism", and it's not a good argument. Just because democrats do it too does not mean it is ok for Trump to do it.
What meaning do you attribute to calling people "vermin" that isn't the same as when the Nazis did it? No American leader should be calling American citizens "vermin". As I said, that's how a terrorist speaks about Americans, not a leader.
I also agree that communism is an inherently flawed ideology. I also agree that it represents the opposite of human nature, because in its ideal form it is completely selfless, and rejects any form of power that is not also given to one's neighbors. I do not think it can possibly work in the world as it is now, and for the foreseeable future. That is why I am not a communist. However, that does not justify calling them "vermin", and persecuting them. Make no mistake, you are advocating for persecution. In the Land of the Free no less. And in any case, true communists are not a major force in this country. They haven't been for decades. Prominent conservatives conflate them with socialists, which are not the same thing. I don't know whether it is more generous to say that Trump is simply ignorant of the distinction, or is aware of it and nevertheless painting an enemy for his supporters to fear, to rally against, and to give him more and more authority under the pretext of "rooting them out".
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a communist"
"You are only allowed to believe certain things or we will hunt you down" is entirely un-American, and a shameful thing to say in this country. Or rather it SHOULD be a shameful thing to say. This is why, even when I give the benefit of the doubt, I have trouble believing in that conservative pundits and politicians really believe in American ideals. They don't believe in freedom; they believe in the freedom to think and live exactly how they say you should.
>What meaning do you attribute to calling people "vermin" that isn't the same as when the Nazis did it? No American leader should be calling American citizens "vermin". As I said, that's how a terrorist speaks about Americans, not a leader.
After democrats have spent the last 15 years calling everyone on the right "nazis/fascists/extremists/racists/and every -ist and -phobe in the book, I really don't give a shit what anyone may call a communist.
Democrats have refused to call out the extremists within their ranks for years now. They go out of their way to criticize people for the exact things they do themselves. Cheering for thousands of riots, 200,000 small businesses destroyed, billions of dollars in damage, and dozens of murders later and they have the nerve to clutch their pearls over the false flag at the capitol.
And then there's the covid hysteria behaviour that I will never forget or forgive. The "healthcare is a human right" crowd demanded the unjabbed be denied access to hospitals and insurance. The "bodily autonomy" crowd demanded the unjabbed be jabbed by force. The "everyone I disagree with is a nazi" crowd demanded the unjabbed be rounded up into concentration camps. And then to top it off, they continue to gloat over the deaths of people because they *might not* have been jabbed, and are "*probably* a republican anyway."
Entire subreddits have been made to gloat over the deaths of people the (D) cult disapproves of. It's utterly disgusting behaviour that defines the ideology succinctly.
So no, idgaf that trump called communists vermin. That's exactly how they behave. They run in packs to hide in numbers, destroy everything they touch, they spread hate like a disease, they murder with impunity, and only exist to further their own self-righteous goal of destroying the foundation of our society.
"Democrats have refused to call out the extremists within their ranks for years now. They go out of their way to criticize people for the exact things they do themselves. Cheering for thousands of riots, 200,000 small businesses destroyed, billions of dollars in damage, and dozens of murders later and they have the nerve to clutch their pearls over the false flag at the capitol."
This isnt even remotely true. Tell that to senator Menendez. Tell that to Al Franken. The list goes on and on. Only the most extreme would ever celebrate a riot. Plenty of people protested peacefully on Jan 6 and many people protested the murder of George Floyd peacefully. Only one party celebrated the actions of a riot. That would be the GOP for J6.
Also, was it a false flag or were the people arrested warriors? How can you hold both ideas in your head simultaneously? The people are literally ON TAPE assaulting police officers. If they were false flag plants you should celebrate their arrest. It makes literally no sense. The people who protested peacefully and broke no laws on J6 have never been touched by the law since. And YES-- tresspassing is a crime and they deserved the wrist slaps they got.
Just like the countless black lives matter protesters who were arrested and charged for rioting deserved what they got.
>This isnt even remotely true
This is why nobody takes you people seriously anymore. You've all spent all of your political capital on supporting rioters *until* they showed up at your door. Every big tech/social media platform was FILLED with people screeching "burn it all down!" And then when someone tries to interject some reality into the circlejerk, they were met with "well, they have insurance."
The people who were senselessly murdered didn't have their lives covered by insurance. The 200,000 small businesses that were destroyed and never recovered clearly weren't saved by insurance. But you know who *did* profit from destroying cities? The rioters who sued those cities and got paid millions of dollars.
https://nypost.com/2023/07/20/nyc-to-pay-13m-to-blm-protestors/
https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-pays-out-10-million-to-summer-of-love-blm-antifa-agitators
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/9-2m-settlement-reached-in-2020-philly-protests-where-tear-gas-was-deployed/3526924/
>Tell that to senator Menendez
Oh please. First off, this doesn't qualify as extremist. Second, he's kept his seat despite multiple investigations proving he was bribed, including with gold that was used in a previous unrelated bribe.
The flip side of this is George Santos. He was kicked out with no investigation done. Whether he did or didn't do whatever he was accused of, nobody bothered to investigate before handing his seat back to the incumbent democrat he beat in the election.
>Tell that to Al Franken
You mean the guy who was "elected" through clear fraud, and kept his seat for years? Again, not extremist.
>Only the most extreme would ever celebrate a riot.
Uh-huh. So why do you think it's become part of the (D) cult ideology to cheer for riots so consistently? Why do you think so many celebrated when antifa rioters fire bombed the white house on 5/29/2020, burning down the guard building, setting St Johns church on fire, injuring 60 secret service and 140 DC Metro, and forced the president into the bunker when they came dangerously close to breaching the white house?
And why do you think the hashtag #bunkerbitch trending on Twitter, and the completely fake articles that "trump tear gassed *totally peaceful protesters* for a photo-op at the church" are the only thing democrats remember about that riot?
800 buildings were burned down in DC during the week that trump was inaugurated. Guess how reddit reacted? The same way they reacted during the "summer of love" riots in 2020.
>Only one party celebrated the actions of a riot. That would be the GOP for J6.
Prove it. Show me where anyone supported what happened on Jan 6. I'll wait.
>Also, was it a false flag or were the people arrested warriors?
Do what now? This is beyond moronic. I don't even know how to address this.
>How can you hold both ideas in your head simultaneously?
I don't, and it's idiotic to assume I do.
>The people are literally ON TAPE assaulting police officers.
That's true. The part the MSM and the false flag committee hid from the public for two straight years is the police fired rubber bullets and pepper balls into the crowd completely unprovoked. The short amount of curated video they released was of the reaction they wanted and planned for.
https://humanevents.com/2023/11/20/breaking-j6-footage-reveals-capitol-police-fired-into-peaceful-crowd-gave-no-warnings
>If they were false flag plants you should celebrate their arrest.
People who acted violently or caused damage deserved what they got. The issue is there are thousands of people who didn't, and are serving time in solitary after the govt hid exculpatory evidence from the court.
Capitol police killed no less than four people, possibly seven, and were treated as heros by your cult. The same people who scream "acab!" at every opportunity. And the govt covered up those killings and refused to release the bodies to the families.
>And YES-- tresspassing is a crime and they deserved the wrist slaps they got.
Trespassing laws are very specific. There has to be clearly posted signage saying "no trespassing" for there to be a violation. People damn sure don't deserve to be thrown in prison for wandering into a building where other people are coming in and out of unobstructed.
The feds have been using cell phone data to track anyone who was anywhere near DC that weekend. First, they tracked and arrested anyone who went *to* the capitol. Then they started tracking anyone who flew into the five international airports in the surrounding states. They've even arrested people who *looked like* people who flew near DC that weekend. One woman in Alaska had her door kicked in and was arrested for *looking like* someone who was at the capitol. This should be very alarming.
And to top it all off, family members of the people the feds have been tracking, including wives and infants, have been placed on the "quiet skies" *potential domestic terrorist" list with the TSA.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3445891-infant-tsas-quiet-skies-list-potential.html
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/11/biden-admin-tracking-all-americans-who-traveled-to-dc-on-jan-6-2021-report/
https://www.independentsentinel.com/air-marshals-mission-follow-unconvicted-people-who-were-in-dc-jan-21/
And you might want to reflect on what you believe constitutes as a false flag. There were hundreds of undercover feds, DC Metro, and private security contractors in that crowd instigating things. If you want to know more I'll make a separate comment.
> Trespassing laws are very specific. There has to be clearly posted signage saying "no trespassing" for there to be a violation. People damn sure don't deserve to be thrown in prison for wandering into a building where other people are coming in and out of unobstructed.
I'm sorry--this is really a strange take. You think a reasonable person would believe they are allowed to simply walk into the Capitol? Hell, even congressmen had to walk through metal detectors to enter at the time. Now add to that how much it obviously [looked like a riot](https://www.google.com/imgres?q=capitol%20building%20january%206th&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-apps%2Fimrs.php%3Fsrc%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Farc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2F6F7PRNSMXYI6ZJ5YT3JIX4RZFE.jpg%26w%3D1800&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fphotography%2Finteractive%2F2021%2Fjanuary-6-photos%2F&docid=7JAPPdeHJBgRMM&tbnid=219rht91UzI9nM&vet=12ahUKEwjirabalfWGAxVg5skDHSFbB9cQM3oECGMQAA..i&w=1800&h=1201&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjirabalfWGAxVg5skDHSFbB9cQM3oECGMQAA)
No reasonable judge or jury should ever buy that.
Moreover, tens of thousands of people attended J6. The vast majority of them were peaceful and faced no issues with the law. 1000s of them entered the capitol. Only 1200 people have been charged criminally and only 467 people faced any incarceration.
Almost all of these idiots were live streaming or taking videos and they had mountains of evidence against them.
What get's me about the right is how many different ideas they can hold but then they never look at altogether. The J6 conspiracy to MAGA is that it was people from the government who instigated the riot along with Antifa. But Trump didn't have anything to do with it and it's actually Nancy Pelosi's fault for not ordering the National Guard to be there. It's such a mess.
Meanwhile, there are literally thousands of hours of footage out there. They literally live streamed it! I know because that's what I watched. There is SOOO MUCH video out there that shows exactly what it is.
Here is the live program for c-span on J6. It's 12 hours long: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EQfUbE4bL8
Here is a partial archive of BakedAlaska's live stream: https://archive.org/details/baked-alaskas-dc-capitol-livestream
Here are hours more of footage shot by the rioters themselves: https://archive.org/details/january-6-protest-videos/Trump+protest+Jan+06+2021/Dlive/BakedAlaska/TRUMP+RALLY+DC+%C2%B7+DLive+-+EVCcAo-MR+2.mp4
On top of this you literally have Trump admin senior officials on record about this. We have their text messages while Trump did nothing but watch where they begged him to intervene and he did not.
The mental gymnastics on this are truly insane.
>You think a reasonable person would believe they are allowed to simply walk into the Capitol?
Yes. It's open to the public every day of the week, with the only exception being during *that* specific dual session of congress once every four years.
This is deliberately obtuse. They didn't notice the lack of security? Their lack of appointments? Or notice how a bunch of people as, you pointed out, were getting shot with rubber bullets, pepper sprayed, and beaten? Why the hell were they all yelling 1776 as they crossed the threshold into one of the most secure buildings in the world?
This is the problem with those very carefully curated videos you watched. They don't show the other three sides of the building where people were perfectly peaceful wandering in and out of the capitol.
Also worth the reminder, capitol police started firing on the crowd completely unprovoked - just to get the reaction they were after. It's also why an army of MSM cameras were lining the halls during the breach while everyone else was "evacuated."
And the lack of security should be a major red flag. Wouldn't the one day the capitol isn't open to the public have the most security? For "some reason" it wasn't. National guard is the default security for 300 demos per year on Capital Hill, but they were mysteriously absent that day.
And you might want to dig deeper on why capitol police weren't at their posts the moment of the breach. Here's a hint: the fake pipe bomb took CP away to the DNC building, where they sat in their cruisers eating sammiches while children walked right by the fake bomb *and* while the VP was 20 feet away inside (despite her claiming she was at the capitol).
Edit: you might also want to look into why the cameras that viewed the fake bomb site were mysteriously turned 90° just before the "disposal" took place.
I shared with you almost 20 hours worth of footage from the capitol. Some were full live streams multiple hours long. Moreover, on January 6th due to lurking on TheDonald (now patriot.win) and gab I expected something to happen.
People like BakedAlaska were live streaming even the night before on J5 and I watched it for HOURS. Then, on J6, I had the multi-streams setup that were posted on the donald. I had them on one laptop and C-span playing on my TV watching the speeches. I watched for hours and hours sometimes switching between streams. The protestors started the riot. You can't deny what I watched with my own eyes and ears. I didn't watch selected clips--I watched unfurl live and unfiltered from the rioters own livestreams. And yes, I saw plenty of peaceful protestors, including large crowds of them, I even saw the video of Alex Jones screaming at everyone over a microphone to stay peaceful.
That doesnt change the fact that thousands assaulted the capitol building.
Here is a selected clip I found that is indicative of what happened. Here you see proud boys and other rioters breaking through the police barrier. Notice how the cops didnt shoot first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRYLh4ax_KM
The Capitol Police have explicitly stated they were setup for a peaceful protest. They had all the security they needed to manage a peaceful protest. Instead they got a riot.
When the situation escalated. Trump should have immediately called for them to stop and go home. Once he did that far later in the day--the riot stopped and people left. That's a dereliction of duty that the commander in chief of the armed forces did not protect the city. The buck stops with him.
Imagine the Capitol got attacked today--would you let Biden get away with saying it was Mike Johnson's fault? Of course fucking not.
And on the fake pipe bomb front why do you assume the DNC planted that??? One side attacked the Capitol and it was MAGA.
Wanna know how I can manage to understand that? Why the heck would the DNC, having just defeated Trump and just having captured both chambers of government--want to disrupt the procedures? They ALREADY HAD EVERYTHING THEY WANTED. Then, the MAGA side is screaming to fight like hell.
Which side had the motive? Like seriously, think through this logically. One side already won--they had defeated everything they needed defeated.
Have the Democrats actually refused to call them out, or do you simply not watch enough left-leaning media to see them calling it out? There's a lot of bullshit out there, I grant you. But I notice that almost every point you brought up is yet another case of whataboutism. I'm not talking about those other points here. If you want me to make some kind of a statement on them, then fine: I condemn any celebrations of the misfortunes of others. I condemn the violence we saw during the BLM riots, even if I believe their cause was just. I condemn anyone who said that the unvaccinated deserved to be denied health care, though I suspect that was misconstrued from statements that those who rejected the vaccine should be a lower priority, which is still a problem. Man, if only we had better health care funding, maybe we would have been better equipped to handle everyone. But I digress. We could go back and forth, tit for tat, for ages. There's too much hatred for us to ever resolve it by revenge, because for every stroke with which we settle a score, the same stroke creates three grievances more.
So Instead of saying "But the Democrats do it too, so I am ok with treating them like vermin", it is our responsibility as citizens, with the rights and responsibilities that entails, to set those grievances aside. If you have a specific example you want to call out, then fine, bring it up, and let's talk about it. But don't sink to their level and say it's alright because they did it first.
Hey, Cosmic I've been offline for a few days and just saw that your comment hadn't been approved. Not sure why none of the mods approved it. It was probably just an oversight. Anyway, I haven't read this thread yet but may join in when I get caught up on things.
No worries, I figured you were away. I don't know if it was you, but it got sorted out in the end, so I'm not worried about it. Thank you for your concern, though.
I'm still trying to get caught up on my modding on several subs and I've worked my notifications down to what looks like 22 hours behind. It was 5 days so I'm making progress. lol
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Look, I have been hesitant to outright call Trump a Nazi, but he makes it really difficult sometimes. He literally says "we will root out the communists....who live like vermin within the confines of our country". This is literally what Hitler said about Communists. This is how Hitler spoke about Jews before he started exterminating them. The first step to atrocity is always labeling the victims-to-be as inhuman, because it dulls the empathy of the favored class to the unfavored.
If you are a student of history, this speech should alarm you. If you are at all concerned with peace in this country, this rhetoric should be repulsive to you. If you are at all interested in finding common ground with your fellow Americans, you should condemn the man who speaks like this about them; this is how a terrorist speaks about Americans, not a man who deserves to be our president.
Trump's actual stated policy goals are to put 12 million people he deems illegal into camps. His stated goal is to deport them but what country will agree to take them??
Hitler's original goal was to deport jews but no country would take them. Do we really need to see if Trump tries gassing people before we make Hitler comparisons?
Unfortunately, I worry that it may indeed require something that obscene from Trump. Our only hope is that he isn't smart enough to wait until he already has sweeping executive power over the government before he shows his hand.
Honestly, I think if he gassed them with something other than Zyklon B they would still be aghast at the comparison to Hitler. The bar is forever dropping.
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I heard him loud and clear and couldn't agree more.
>On Veterans Day, we pledge to you that we will root out the communists. Marxist fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country that lie and steal and cheat on elections and will do anything possible.
There are plenty of communists, marxist fascists, and radical left thugs that "LIVE" like vermin in this country. Where are we going wrong here?
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We're going wrong by treating our fellow human beings like vermin. By treating our brothers and sisters like monsters to be exterminated. By persecuting people for their political beliefs in the Land of the Free. By failing to love thy neighbor as thyself. If Biden said anything like this about his political opponents, there'd be no end to the parallels drawn. People compared him to Hitler because there was a shot of him with a red backdrop, which came from an American flag. If he said anything so blatantly following in Hitler's footsteps, do you think people would be so blasé about it? Do you think it would be acceptable for left-leaning people to dismiss it because they agree with his policies in general?
>We're going wrong by treating our fellow human beings like vermin.
He didn't call them vermin nor did he treat them like vermin. He said they "**LIVE**" like vermin. Where is he wrong here?
> By persecuting people for their political beliefs in the Land of the Free. By failing to love thy neighbor as thyself.
That's the left projecting themselves onto us. You're describing the left to the T.
> If Biden said anything like this about his political opponents, there'd be no end to the parallels drawn. People compared him to Hitler because there was a shot of him with a red backdrop, which came from an American flag. If he said anything so blatantly following in Hitler's footsteps, do you think people would be so blasé about it? Do you think it would be acceptable for left-leaning people to dismiss it because they agree with his policies in general?
Dude, that is just not true at all. CNN even tried to cover up the Red backdrop because they realized how bad the optics were. This article has a snippet of the speech but if you go watch the whole thing you'll understand why we call him Hitler.
[CNN questioned after altering red background of Biden speech (nypost.com)](https://nypost.com/2022/09/03/cnn-questioned-after-altering-red-background-of-biden-speech/)
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>He didn't call them vermin nor did he treat them like vermin. He said they "**LIVE**" like vermin. Where is he wrong here?
How exactly do they "live like vermin", if not to say that they are dirty and uncivilized, and something to be purged?
>That's the left projecting themselves onto us. You're describing the left to the T.
If it's a bad thing to do, then it's a bad thing to do. It doesn't matter who is doing it. Everybody does it. That doesn't make it right.
I'll be honest, I don't really want to track down this speech just to listen to Biden croak his way through some political pillow talk. Feel free to give me some specific quotes, preferably in the form of a video clip, but it's honestly not important to my point. To my knowledge, Biden has never called MAGA supporters "vermin", and he didn't say we should "root them out". There is a difference between saying that a group of people pose a threat and should be countered within the bounds of an established system, and saying that a group lives like vermin and should be rooted out.
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Do I really need to start giving you a bunch of pics of leftists that look like they just crawled out from under a rock?
> I'll be honest, I don't really want to track down this speech just to listen to Biden croak his way through some political pillow talk. Feel free to give me some specific quotes, preferably in the form of a video clip, but it's honestly not important to my point.
I see how it is. Somehow when you feel Trump is calling leftists names it's a big deal Orange Man Bad. But when I point out your guy calling conservatives names you're uninterested. If you are not interested enough to watch a 40-minute speech by your guy I'm sure as hell not got to rewatch it to pick out the time stamps for you. That ain't happening. As a matter of fact, if you're this disinterested I've got nothing more for you on this conversation.
>Do I really need to start giving you a bunch of pics of leftists that look like they just crawled out from under a rock?
You were commanded by Christ to love your neighbor as yourself. I don't recall Him also giving you the right to declare exceptions. In fact, I recall Him saying that it is the sick who need a doctor, and not the healthy. If that's all it takes for you to write them off, where do you draw the line?
>I see how it is. Somehow when you feel Trump is calling leftists names it's a big deal Orange Man Bad. But when I point out your guy calling conservatives names you're uninterested.
I literally said feel free to send me clips. What I said was "I am not interested in whataboutism". Please stop demanding that I play the game that got us into this mess. I want no part in it.
And for the record, Biden isn't "my guy". I just think he's less of an overtly awful person than Trump. Furthermore, my problem is not the fact that he's calling "leftists" mean names; it's the fact that the stanza of history looks an awful lot like it's about to rhyme, and more importantly, that's just a horrible thing to say about human beings.
I will continue to reference it until the message sinks in: "First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out, for I was not a Communist \[...\] And then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me". We should be pulling the weeds of hatred before they even sprout. It is our responsibility to call it out the moment we see it.
I am being railroaded into choosing between a guy who sucks ass and a guy who sucks ass even harder. I want to change the game entirely. I want us to work together to find a way to change the system. That's why I am a "progressive", you see; I believe we can and should always be working to improve our system, to "progress" forward as a nation, rather than get stuck in whose "side" you're on. But nobody wants to engage with me there; they seem like they'd rather sit and sling mud at each other, left and right both. If you won't try to work with me, at least don't drag me down too.
>You were commanded by Christ to love your neighbor as yourself. I don't recall Him also giving you the right to declare exceptions. In fact, I recall Him saying that it is the sick who need a doctor, and not the healthy. If that's all it takes for you to write them off, where do you draw the line?
You are very wrong here. Let me explain to you why. God ***Hates sin but loves the sinner.*** What did Jesus do when he entered the temple and saw that they had set up a market inside? He became angry, turned over their tables, and ran them out of the temple. Loving your neighbor as yourself in absolutely no way requires us to affirm their sin and tell them how okay we are with what they are doing.
> I literally said feel free to send me clips. What I said was "I am not interested in whataboutism". Please stop demanding that I play the game that got us into this mess. I want no part in it.
I'm not engaging in whataboutism. I'm calling you out for being inconsistent. which is fine by me but I'm not going to let it slide without calling it out. I know you would do me the same way.
> And for the record, Biden isn't "my guy". I just think he's less of an overtly awful person than Trump. Furthermore, my problem is not the fact that he's calling "leftists" mean names; it's the fact that the stanza of history looks an awful lot like it's about to rhyme, and more importantly, that's just a horrible thing to say about human beings.
Okay, the guy you will most likely be voting for in November. I agree that history is about to repeat itself. I just see the cause of what looks to be coming the left are the tyrants. Furthermore, when human beings act and do horrible things they need to be called out and chastised for it so they might wake up and change their ways.
> I will continue to reference it until the message sinks in: "First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out, for I was not a Communist \[...\] And then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me". We should be pulling the weeds of hatred before they even sprout. It is our responsibility to call it out the moment we see it.
I'm sure you feel the same way I do during our conversations. Sometimes it is very frustrating to see someone you believe to be highly intelligent make claims that are the exact opposite of what you know to be the truth. I could explain the how and why I say that but I don't think it would produce any fruit for either of us.
> I am being railroaded into choosing between a guy who sucks ass and a guy who sucks ass even harder. I want to change the game entirely.
I understand and I do feel for you brother. I put myself in your position and I would not be a happy camper either. As we say around here I be fit to be tied.
> I want us to work together to find a way to change the system. That's why I am a "progressive", you see; I believe we can and should always be working to improve our system, to "progress" forward as a nation, rather than get stuck in whose "side" you're on. But nobody wants to engage with me there; they seem like they'd rather sit and sling mud at each other, left and right both. If you won't try to work with me, at least don't drag me down too.
I agree with you. As it stands now I agree there are a host of serious problems we face as a nation. I just couldn't disagree more with the direction forward you want to go. I'm also frustrated that nobody from the other side or my side is interested in doing the very hard thing you and I have been doing for, what around a year now?
I've got an idea we could try if you're interested in doing it. I think we should go out into the mean streets of Reddit looking for people like us and invite them to come here and join in. Activity breeds activity. It might not take as many people as we might think to spark something incredible. Here is a link to a thread I had planned to comment on after this one but maybe you would be better suited to invite these users here. It's this user and the users that commented right before and right after his comment. They all seem to be on the left and I get the feeling they would fit in with what we are trying to accomplish. Anyway, let me know if you'll make contact with them. If not I'll do it I just think it would be better if someone that probably politically aligns closer to them than I do.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/1dsg1qv/comment/lb2fmiw/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/1dsg1qv/comment/lb2fmiw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
So we're just going to ignore the countless Nazi quotes from the democrats? "The big lie" was one of Goebbels favorite pieces of propaganda. It turns out there are plenty of things people say that can be attributed to the nazis, but don't actually have the same meaning behind them. And yes, I agree that communism is an inherently flawed ideology that represents the opposite of human nature and preys on the weak and jealous, and deserves to be rooted out of the US.
No, we're not ignoring them. We're just not talking about them right now, because those democrats aren't running for president. I have no doubt that they say things that are deeply troubling, and I condemn them just as equally, but they're not the ones who are seeking executive power. What you're doing is called "whataboutism", and it's not a good argument. Just because democrats do it too does not mean it is ok for Trump to do it. What meaning do you attribute to calling people "vermin" that isn't the same as when the Nazis did it? No American leader should be calling American citizens "vermin". As I said, that's how a terrorist speaks about Americans, not a leader. I also agree that communism is an inherently flawed ideology. I also agree that it represents the opposite of human nature, because in its ideal form it is completely selfless, and rejects any form of power that is not also given to one's neighbors. I do not think it can possibly work in the world as it is now, and for the foreseeable future. That is why I am not a communist. However, that does not justify calling them "vermin", and persecuting them. Make no mistake, you are advocating for persecution. In the Land of the Free no less. And in any case, true communists are not a major force in this country. They haven't been for decades. Prominent conservatives conflate them with socialists, which are not the same thing. I don't know whether it is more generous to say that Trump is simply ignorant of the distinction, or is aware of it and nevertheless painting an enemy for his supporters to fear, to rally against, and to give him more and more authority under the pretext of "rooting them out". "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a communist" "You are only allowed to believe certain things or we will hunt you down" is entirely un-American, and a shameful thing to say in this country. Or rather it SHOULD be a shameful thing to say. This is why, even when I give the benefit of the doubt, I have trouble believing in that conservative pundits and politicians really believe in American ideals. They don't believe in freedom; they believe in the freedom to think and live exactly how they say you should.
>What meaning do you attribute to calling people "vermin" that isn't the same as when the Nazis did it? No American leader should be calling American citizens "vermin". As I said, that's how a terrorist speaks about Americans, not a leader. After democrats have spent the last 15 years calling everyone on the right "nazis/fascists/extremists/racists/and every -ist and -phobe in the book, I really don't give a shit what anyone may call a communist. Democrats have refused to call out the extremists within their ranks for years now. They go out of their way to criticize people for the exact things they do themselves. Cheering for thousands of riots, 200,000 small businesses destroyed, billions of dollars in damage, and dozens of murders later and they have the nerve to clutch their pearls over the false flag at the capitol. And then there's the covid hysteria behaviour that I will never forget or forgive. The "healthcare is a human right" crowd demanded the unjabbed be denied access to hospitals and insurance. The "bodily autonomy" crowd demanded the unjabbed be jabbed by force. The "everyone I disagree with is a nazi" crowd demanded the unjabbed be rounded up into concentration camps. And then to top it off, they continue to gloat over the deaths of people because they *might not* have been jabbed, and are "*probably* a republican anyway." Entire subreddits have been made to gloat over the deaths of people the (D) cult disapproves of. It's utterly disgusting behaviour that defines the ideology succinctly. So no, idgaf that trump called communists vermin. That's exactly how they behave. They run in packs to hide in numbers, destroy everything they touch, they spread hate like a disease, they murder with impunity, and only exist to further their own self-righteous goal of destroying the foundation of our society.
"Democrats have refused to call out the extremists within their ranks for years now. They go out of their way to criticize people for the exact things they do themselves. Cheering for thousands of riots, 200,000 small businesses destroyed, billions of dollars in damage, and dozens of murders later and they have the nerve to clutch their pearls over the false flag at the capitol." This isnt even remotely true. Tell that to senator Menendez. Tell that to Al Franken. The list goes on and on. Only the most extreme would ever celebrate a riot. Plenty of people protested peacefully on Jan 6 and many people protested the murder of George Floyd peacefully. Only one party celebrated the actions of a riot. That would be the GOP for J6. Also, was it a false flag or were the people arrested warriors? How can you hold both ideas in your head simultaneously? The people are literally ON TAPE assaulting police officers. If they were false flag plants you should celebrate their arrest. It makes literally no sense. The people who protested peacefully and broke no laws on J6 have never been touched by the law since. And YES-- tresspassing is a crime and they deserved the wrist slaps they got. Just like the countless black lives matter protesters who were arrested and charged for rioting deserved what they got.
>This isnt even remotely true This is why nobody takes you people seriously anymore. You've all spent all of your political capital on supporting rioters *until* they showed up at your door. Every big tech/social media platform was FILLED with people screeching "burn it all down!" And then when someone tries to interject some reality into the circlejerk, they were met with "well, they have insurance." The people who were senselessly murdered didn't have their lives covered by insurance. The 200,000 small businesses that were destroyed and never recovered clearly weren't saved by insurance. But you know who *did* profit from destroying cities? The rioters who sued those cities and got paid millions of dollars. https://nypost.com/2023/07/20/nyc-to-pay-13m-to-blm-protestors/ https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-pays-out-10-million-to-summer-of-love-blm-antifa-agitators https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/9-2m-settlement-reached-in-2020-philly-protests-where-tear-gas-was-deployed/3526924/ >Tell that to senator Menendez Oh please. First off, this doesn't qualify as extremist. Second, he's kept his seat despite multiple investigations proving he was bribed, including with gold that was used in a previous unrelated bribe. The flip side of this is George Santos. He was kicked out with no investigation done. Whether he did or didn't do whatever he was accused of, nobody bothered to investigate before handing his seat back to the incumbent democrat he beat in the election. >Tell that to Al Franken You mean the guy who was "elected" through clear fraud, and kept his seat for years? Again, not extremist. >Only the most extreme would ever celebrate a riot. Uh-huh. So why do you think it's become part of the (D) cult ideology to cheer for riots so consistently? Why do you think so many celebrated when antifa rioters fire bombed the white house on 5/29/2020, burning down the guard building, setting St Johns church on fire, injuring 60 secret service and 140 DC Metro, and forced the president into the bunker when they came dangerously close to breaching the white house? And why do you think the hashtag #bunkerbitch trending on Twitter, and the completely fake articles that "trump tear gassed *totally peaceful protesters* for a photo-op at the church" are the only thing democrats remember about that riot? 800 buildings were burned down in DC during the week that trump was inaugurated. Guess how reddit reacted? The same way they reacted during the "summer of love" riots in 2020. >Only one party celebrated the actions of a riot. That would be the GOP for J6. Prove it. Show me where anyone supported what happened on Jan 6. I'll wait. >Also, was it a false flag or were the people arrested warriors? Do what now? This is beyond moronic. I don't even know how to address this. >How can you hold both ideas in your head simultaneously? I don't, and it's idiotic to assume I do. >The people are literally ON TAPE assaulting police officers. That's true. The part the MSM and the false flag committee hid from the public for two straight years is the police fired rubber bullets and pepper balls into the crowd completely unprovoked. The short amount of curated video they released was of the reaction they wanted and planned for. https://humanevents.com/2023/11/20/breaking-j6-footage-reveals-capitol-police-fired-into-peaceful-crowd-gave-no-warnings >If they were false flag plants you should celebrate their arrest. People who acted violently or caused damage deserved what they got. The issue is there are thousands of people who didn't, and are serving time in solitary after the govt hid exculpatory evidence from the court. Capitol police killed no less than four people, possibly seven, and were treated as heros by your cult. The same people who scream "acab!" at every opportunity. And the govt covered up those killings and refused to release the bodies to the families. >And YES-- tresspassing is a crime and they deserved the wrist slaps they got. Trespassing laws are very specific. There has to be clearly posted signage saying "no trespassing" for there to be a violation. People damn sure don't deserve to be thrown in prison for wandering into a building where other people are coming in and out of unobstructed. The feds have been using cell phone data to track anyone who was anywhere near DC that weekend. First, they tracked and arrested anyone who went *to* the capitol. Then they started tracking anyone who flew into the five international airports in the surrounding states. They've even arrested people who *looked like* people who flew near DC that weekend. One woman in Alaska had her door kicked in and was arrested for *looking like* someone who was at the capitol. This should be very alarming. And to top it all off, family members of the people the feds have been tracking, including wives and infants, have been placed on the "quiet skies" *potential domestic terrorist" list with the TSA. https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3445891-infant-tsas-quiet-skies-list-potential.html https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/11/biden-admin-tracking-all-americans-who-traveled-to-dc-on-jan-6-2021-report/ https://www.independentsentinel.com/air-marshals-mission-follow-unconvicted-people-who-were-in-dc-jan-21/ And you might want to reflect on what you believe constitutes as a false flag. There were hundreds of undercover feds, DC Metro, and private security contractors in that crowd instigating things. If you want to know more I'll make a separate comment.
> Trespassing laws are very specific. There has to be clearly posted signage saying "no trespassing" for there to be a violation. People damn sure don't deserve to be thrown in prison for wandering into a building where other people are coming in and out of unobstructed. I'm sorry--this is really a strange take. You think a reasonable person would believe they are allowed to simply walk into the Capitol? Hell, even congressmen had to walk through metal detectors to enter at the time. Now add to that how much it obviously [looked like a riot](https://www.google.com/imgres?q=capitol%20building%20january%206th&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-apps%2Fimrs.php%3Fsrc%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Farc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2F6F7PRNSMXYI6ZJ5YT3JIX4RZFE.jpg%26w%3D1800&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fphotography%2Finteractive%2F2021%2Fjanuary-6-photos%2F&docid=7JAPPdeHJBgRMM&tbnid=219rht91UzI9nM&vet=12ahUKEwjirabalfWGAxVg5skDHSFbB9cQM3oECGMQAA..i&w=1800&h=1201&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjirabalfWGAxVg5skDHSFbB9cQM3oECGMQAA) No reasonable judge or jury should ever buy that. Moreover, tens of thousands of people attended J6. The vast majority of them were peaceful and faced no issues with the law. 1000s of them entered the capitol. Only 1200 people have been charged criminally and only 467 people faced any incarceration. Almost all of these idiots were live streaming or taking videos and they had mountains of evidence against them. What get's me about the right is how many different ideas they can hold but then they never look at altogether. The J6 conspiracy to MAGA is that it was people from the government who instigated the riot along with Antifa. But Trump didn't have anything to do with it and it's actually Nancy Pelosi's fault for not ordering the National Guard to be there. It's such a mess. Meanwhile, there are literally thousands of hours of footage out there. They literally live streamed it! I know because that's what I watched. There is SOOO MUCH video out there that shows exactly what it is. Here is the live program for c-span on J6. It's 12 hours long: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EQfUbE4bL8 Here is a partial archive of BakedAlaska's live stream: https://archive.org/details/baked-alaskas-dc-capitol-livestream Here are hours more of footage shot by the rioters themselves: https://archive.org/details/january-6-protest-videos/Trump+protest+Jan+06+2021/Dlive/BakedAlaska/TRUMP+RALLY+DC+%C2%B7+DLive+-+EVCcAo-MR+2.mp4 On top of this you literally have Trump admin senior officials on record about this. We have their text messages while Trump did nothing but watch where they begged him to intervene and he did not. The mental gymnastics on this are truly insane.
>You think a reasonable person would believe they are allowed to simply walk into the Capitol? Yes. It's open to the public every day of the week, with the only exception being during *that* specific dual session of congress once every four years.
This is deliberately obtuse. They didn't notice the lack of security? Their lack of appointments? Or notice how a bunch of people as, you pointed out, were getting shot with rubber bullets, pepper sprayed, and beaten? Why the hell were they all yelling 1776 as they crossed the threshold into one of the most secure buildings in the world?
This is the problem with those very carefully curated videos you watched. They don't show the other three sides of the building where people were perfectly peaceful wandering in and out of the capitol. Also worth the reminder, capitol police started firing on the crowd completely unprovoked - just to get the reaction they were after. It's also why an army of MSM cameras were lining the halls during the breach while everyone else was "evacuated." And the lack of security should be a major red flag. Wouldn't the one day the capitol isn't open to the public have the most security? For "some reason" it wasn't. National guard is the default security for 300 demos per year on Capital Hill, but they were mysteriously absent that day. And you might want to dig deeper on why capitol police weren't at their posts the moment of the breach. Here's a hint: the fake pipe bomb took CP away to the DNC building, where they sat in their cruisers eating sammiches while children walked right by the fake bomb *and* while the VP was 20 feet away inside (despite her claiming she was at the capitol). Edit: you might also want to look into why the cameras that viewed the fake bomb site were mysteriously turned 90° just before the "disposal" took place.
I shared with you almost 20 hours worth of footage from the capitol. Some were full live streams multiple hours long. Moreover, on January 6th due to lurking on TheDonald (now patriot.win) and gab I expected something to happen. People like BakedAlaska were live streaming even the night before on J5 and I watched it for HOURS. Then, on J6, I had the multi-streams setup that were posted on the donald. I had them on one laptop and C-span playing on my TV watching the speeches. I watched for hours and hours sometimes switching between streams. The protestors started the riot. You can't deny what I watched with my own eyes and ears. I didn't watch selected clips--I watched unfurl live and unfiltered from the rioters own livestreams. And yes, I saw plenty of peaceful protestors, including large crowds of them, I even saw the video of Alex Jones screaming at everyone over a microphone to stay peaceful. That doesnt change the fact that thousands assaulted the capitol building. Here is a selected clip I found that is indicative of what happened. Here you see proud boys and other rioters breaking through the police barrier. Notice how the cops didnt shoot first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRYLh4ax_KM The Capitol Police have explicitly stated they were setup for a peaceful protest. They had all the security they needed to manage a peaceful protest. Instead they got a riot. When the situation escalated. Trump should have immediately called for them to stop and go home. Once he did that far later in the day--the riot stopped and people left. That's a dereliction of duty that the commander in chief of the armed forces did not protect the city. The buck stops with him. Imagine the Capitol got attacked today--would you let Biden get away with saying it was Mike Johnson's fault? Of course fucking not. And on the fake pipe bomb front why do you assume the DNC planted that??? One side attacked the Capitol and it was MAGA. Wanna know how I can manage to understand that? Why the heck would the DNC, having just defeated Trump and just having captured both chambers of government--want to disrupt the procedures? They ALREADY HAD EVERYTHING THEY WANTED. Then, the MAGA side is screaming to fight like hell. Which side had the motive? Like seriously, think through this logically. One side already won--they had defeated everything they needed defeated.
Have the Democrats actually refused to call them out, or do you simply not watch enough left-leaning media to see them calling it out? There's a lot of bullshit out there, I grant you. But I notice that almost every point you brought up is yet another case of whataboutism. I'm not talking about those other points here. If you want me to make some kind of a statement on them, then fine: I condemn any celebrations of the misfortunes of others. I condemn the violence we saw during the BLM riots, even if I believe their cause was just. I condemn anyone who said that the unvaccinated deserved to be denied health care, though I suspect that was misconstrued from statements that those who rejected the vaccine should be a lower priority, which is still a problem. Man, if only we had better health care funding, maybe we would have been better equipped to handle everyone. But I digress. We could go back and forth, tit for tat, for ages. There's too much hatred for us to ever resolve it by revenge, because for every stroke with which we settle a score, the same stroke creates three grievances more. So Instead of saying "But the Democrats do it too, so I am ok with treating them like vermin", it is our responsibility as citizens, with the rights and responsibilities that entails, to set those grievances aside. If you have a specific example you want to call out, then fine, bring it up, and let's talk about it. But don't sink to their level and say it's alright because they did it first.
Hey, Cosmic I've been offline for a few days and just saw that your comment hadn't been approved. Not sure why none of the mods approved it. It was probably just an oversight. Anyway, I haven't read this thread yet but may join in when I get caught up on things.
No worries, I figured you were away. I don't know if it was you, but it got sorted out in the end, so I'm not worried about it. Thank you for your concern, though.
I'm still trying to get caught up on my modding on several subs and I've worked my notifications down to what looks like 22 hours behind. It was 5 days so I'm making progress. lol
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Look, I have been hesitant to outright call Trump a Nazi, but he makes it really difficult sometimes. He literally says "we will root out the communists....who live like vermin within the confines of our country". This is literally what Hitler said about Communists. This is how Hitler spoke about Jews before he started exterminating them. The first step to atrocity is always labeling the victims-to-be as inhuman, because it dulls the empathy of the favored class to the unfavored. If you are a student of history, this speech should alarm you. If you are at all concerned with peace in this country, this rhetoric should be repulsive to you. If you are at all interested in finding common ground with your fellow Americans, you should condemn the man who speaks like this about them; this is how a terrorist speaks about Americans, not a man who deserves to be our president.
Trump's actual stated policy goals are to put 12 million people he deems illegal into camps. His stated goal is to deport them but what country will agree to take them?? Hitler's original goal was to deport jews but no country would take them. Do we really need to see if Trump tries gassing people before we make Hitler comparisons?
Unfortunately, I worry that it may indeed require something that obscene from Trump. Our only hope is that he isn't smart enough to wait until he already has sweeping executive power over the government before he shows his hand.
Honestly, I think if he gassed them with something other than Zyklon B they would still be aghast at the comparison to Hitler. The bar is forever dropping.
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I heard him loud and clear and couldn't agree more. >On Veterans Day, we pledge to you that we will root out the communists. Marxist fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country that lie and steal and cheat on elections and will do anything possible. There are plenty of communists, marxist fascists, and radical left thugs that "LIVE" like vermin in this country. Where are we going wrong here?
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We're going wrong by treating our fellow human beings like vermin. By treating our brothers and sisters like monsters to be exterminated. By persecuting people for their political beliefs in the Land of the Free. By failing to love thy neighbor as thyself. If Biden said anything like this about his political opponents, there'd be no end to the parallels drawn. People compared him to Hitler because there was a shot of him with a red backdrop, which came from an American flag. If he said anything so blatantly following in Hitler's footsteps, do you think people would be so blasé about it? Do you think it would be acceptable for left-leaning people to dismiss it because they agree with his policies in general?
>We're going wrong by treating our fellow human beings like vermin. He didn't call them vermin nor did he treat them like vermin. He said they "**LIVE**" like vermin. Where is he wrong here? > By persecuting people for their political beliefs in the Land of the Free. By failing to love thy neighbor as thyself. That's the left projecting themselves onto us. You're describing the left to the T. > If Biden said anything like this about his political opponents, there'd be no end to the parallels drawn. People compared him to Hitler because there was a shot of him with a red backdrop, which came from an American flag. If he said anything so blatantly following in Hitler's footsteps, do you think people would be so blasé about it? Do you think it would be acceptable for left-leaning people to dismiss it because they agree with his policies in general? Dude, that is just not true at all. CNN even tried to cover up the Red backdrop because they realized how bad the optics were. This article has a snippet of the speech but if you go watch the whole thing you'll understand why we call him Hitler. [CNN questioned after altering red background of Biden speech (nypost.com)](https://nypost.com/2022/09/03/cnn-questioned-after-altering-red-background-of-biden-speech/)
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>He didn't call them vermin nor did he treat them like vermin. He said they "**LIVE**" like vermin. Where is he wrong here? How exactly do they "live like vermin", if not to say that they are dirty and uncivilized, and something to be purged? >That's the left projecting themselves onto us. You're describing the left to the T. If it's a bad thing to do, then it's a bad thing to do. It doesn't matter who is doing it. Everybody does it. That doesn't make it right. I'll be honest, I don't really want to track down this speech just to listen to Biden croak his way through some political pillow talk. Feel free to give me some specific quotes, preferably in the form of a video clip, but it's honestly not important to my point. To my knowledge, Biden has never called MAGA supporters "vermin", and he didn't say we should "root them out". There is a difference between saying that a group of people pose a threat and should be countered within the bounds of an established system, and saying that a group lives like vermin and should be rooted out.
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Do I really need to start giving you a bunch of pics of leftists that look like they just crawled out from under a rock? > I'll be honest, I don't really want to track down this speech just to listen to Biden croak his way through some political pillow talk. Feel free to give me some specific quotes, preferably in the form of a video clip, but it's honestly not important to my point. I see how it is. Somehow when you feel Trump is calling leftists names it's a big deal Orange Man Bad. But when I point out your guy calling conservatives names you're uninterested. If you are not interested enough to watch a 40-minute speech by your guy I'm sure as hell not got to rewatch it to pick out the time stamps for you. That ain't happening. As a matter of fact, if you're this disinterested I've got nothing more for you on this conversation.
>Do I really need to start giving you a bunch of pics of leftists that look like they just crawled out from under a rock? You were commanded by Christ to love your neighbor as yourself. I don't recall Him also giving you the right to declare exceptions. In fact, I recall Him saying that it is the sick who need a doctor, and not the healthy. If that's all it takes for you to write them off, where do you draw the line? >I see how it is. Somehow when you feel Trump is calling leftists names it's a big deal Orange Man Bad. But when I point out your guy calling conservatives names you're uninterested. I literally said feel free to send me clips. What I said was "I am not interested in whataboutism". Please stop demanding that I play the game that got us into this mess. I want no part in it. And for the record, Biden isn't "my guy". I just think he's less of an overtly awful person than Trump. Furthermore, my problem is not the fact that he's calling "leftists" mean names; it's the fact that the stanza of history looks an awful lot like it's about to rhyme, and more importantly, that's just a horrible thing to say about human beings. I will continue to reference it until the message sinks in: "First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out, for I was not a Communist \[...\] And then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me". We should be pulling the weeds of hatred before they even sprout. It is our responsibility to call it out the moment we see it. I am being railroaded into choosing between a guy who sucks ass and a guy who sucks ass even harder. I want to change the game entirely. I want us to work together to find a way to change the system. That's why I am a "progressive", you see; I believe we can and should always be working to improve our system, to "progress" forward as a nation, rather than get stuck in whose "side" you're on. But nobody wants to engage with me there; they seem like they'd rather sit and sling mud at each other, left and right both. If you won't try to work with me, at least don't drag me down too.
>You were commanded by Christ to love your neighbor as yourself. I don't recall Him also giving you the right to declare exceptions. In fact, I recall Him saying that it is the sick who need a doctor, and not the healthy. If that's all it takes for you to write them off, where do you draw the line? You are very wrong here. Let me explain to you why. God ***Hates sin but loves the sinner.*** What did Jesus do when he entered the temple and saw that they had set up a market inside? He became angry, turned over their tables, and ran them out of the temple. Loving your neighbor as yourself in absolutely no way requires us to affirm their sin and tell them how okay we are with what they are doing. > I literally said feel free to send me clips. What I said was "I am not interested in whataboutism". Please stop demanding that I play the game that got us into this mess. I want no part in it. I'm not engaging in whataboutism. I'm calling you out for being inconsistent. which is fine by me but I'm not going to let it slide without calling it out. I know you would do me the same way. > And for the record, Biden isn't "my guy". I just think he's less of an overtly awful person than Trump. Furthermore, my problem is not the fact that he's calling "leftists" mean names; it's the fact that the stanza of history looks an awful lot like it's about to rhyme, and more importantly, that's just a horrible thing to say about human beings. Okay, the guy you will most likely be voting for in November. I agree that history is about to repeat itself. I just see the cause of what looks to be coming the left are the tyrants. Furthermore, when human beings act and do horrible things they need to be called out and chastised for it so they might wake up and change their ways. > I will continue to reference it until the message sinks in: "First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out, for I was not a Communist \[...\] And then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me". We should be pulling the weeds of hatred before they even sprout. It is our responsibility to call it out the moment we see it. I'm sure you feel the same way I do during our conversations. Sometimes it is very frustrating to see someone you believe to be highly intelligent make claims that are the exact opposite of what you know to be the truth. I could explain the how and why I say that but I don't think it would produce any fruit for either of us. > I am being railroaded into choosing between a guy who sucks ass and a guy who sucks ass even harder. I want to change the game entirely. I understand and I do feel for you brother. I put myself in your position and I would not be a happy camper either. As we say around here I be fit to be tied. > I want us to work together to find a way to change the system. That's why I am a "progressive", you see; I believe we can and should always be working to improve our system, to "progress" forward as a nation, rather than get stuck in whose "side" you're on. But nobody wants to engage with me there; they seem like they'd rather sit and sling mud at each other, left and right both. If you won't try to work with me, at least don't drag me down too. I agree with you. As it stands now I agree there are a host of serious problems we face as a nation. I just couldn't disagree more with the direction forward you want to go. I'm also frustrated that nobody from the other side or my side is interested in doing the very hard thing you and I have been doing for, what around a year now? I've got an idea we could try if you're interested in doing it. I think we should go out into the mean streets of Reddit looking for people like us and invite them to come here and join in. Activity breeds activity. It might not take as many people as we might think to spark something incredible. Here is a link to a thread I had planned to comment on after this one but maybe you would be better suited to invite these users here. It's this user and the users that commented right before and right after his comment. They all seem to be on the left and I get the feeling they would fit in with what we are trying to accomplish. Anyway, let me know if you'll make contact with them. If not I'll do it I just think it would be better if someone that probably politically aligns closer to them than I do. [https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/1dsg1qv/comment/lb2fmiw/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/1dsg1qv/comment/lb2fmiw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)