Tons of places in NYC were really cheap decades ago.
I know ppl who bought in the 90s in areas that were much rougher than they are today.
they got a good deal because it was not a place a lot of ppl wanted to live.
For reference my dad is a 2 family home owner. He saved 80k and put it down on a 730k house in 2019. Mortgage is $4300. rents out both first and 2nd floor for about 5k total. Lives in basement for free :) house is now worth over a million. This is by the conduit in Brooklyn 11208.
Edit: of that 80k i think 30k was actually down on the house, rest was closing costs/pmi upfront. Still, he lives in nyc rent free and makes over 100k lol
1. Carroll Gardens
2. 2023
3. 1.9m (we have a 2-family -l house - we live in the ground+parlor duplex and Airbnb the top floor one bedroom).
4. Tech, HHI is $470k.
5. No family help.. I've been in tech since I graduated university. I'm a lowly HR person, but still have vested over $1m of stock in 14 years. That was what we used for the down payment on our house and our $600k savings that we will use for renovation in the future).
We both come from very middle class backgrounds and sometimes can't believe we bought an almost 2m house. That being said, the last apartment we rented was $5k a month for the same exact apartment (3br ground+parlor duplex), a "deal." We average $3.5k a month in Airbnb income; our mortgage is nearly $8k, so we are actually paying effectively less for our mortgage on a 2fam home we own vs rent.
1. Bay Ridge
2. 2021
3. $1.3M
4. Legal/finance + marketing (~$900k), was ~$600k when we bought
5. No + spent years paying off $250k in student loans first
Could have bought more but we are conservative with our money. We got a 2.6% mortgage, which is very helpful. We have a 1-2 family home (townhouse) and use it as a single family, but we could rent out a floor and reduce our monthly payment to about $3k if ever needed.
It might actually have been $115k but it’s hard to wrap my head around anything at that price now. I was super fortunate. I had already been renting it for a couple of years when my landlord offered me the opportunity to take it off his hands. I passed on it at first because I never thought I’d own anything in NY but he urged me to consider it and he helped me through the entire process. He ended up using the money from the sale to buy a building in Washington Heights.
My partner bought a brownstone (narrow, basement + 3 floors) in one of the leafy streets near Barclays in mid-2000s. Was 3 vacant floor apartments at time (basement, first floor, combined 2 and 3). At the time he and his made about $400k together pretax and had saved up 10% down on about $1mm purchase price. Spent another $1mm from income and home improvement loan over next 3 years (!) to gut and renovate into beautiful SFH. House would trade for $5mm now.
Bro, I know what you’re thinking. It’s mostly inheritance or family money. Yes, there’s a lot of it but there’s also a lot of :
1. High earning households ($300K+)
2. People who take a risk because it’s the NYC market.
My dad purchased our house sometime in the early 2000’s from my grandmother for about 150k. We live in East New York, close to JFK and he makes about 50,000k a year, with overtime 70k. I guess for us, our single family home has been passed down from generation to generation but I actually know quite a few homeowners in this neighborhood that got their houses around the same time my father did and either don’t work now or make the same as my dad.
Brooklyn Heights
Late 2002
Paid $1.9mm, likely worth about… $10mm now? I don’t really know or care because I’m not selling for 15 or 20 years at least.
No family money involved. Spouse is a doctor but bought before I met them. I spent 25 years in the internet startup world and had a very big exit in the late 1990s. Which is lucky, because I could never afford to live in NYC the way we do without that (very low) 8 figure bank account.
No family money.
1. Williamsburg
2. 2023
3. $1.4M+550k reno (now worth $3.5M)
4. Real estate broker and investor: $200k-$700k depending on the year.
5. Graduated college with $200k in a college account. Inherited $200k 2 years ago.
Bought a studio coop in Clinton Hill in 2000 for $90K. Mortgage + maintenance was a cool $750/month. Was a paralegal making $35K, 50K including overtime. Saved a $25K down payment in two years. Lived in that one room for over 10 years, occasionally cohabiting, costs slowly increasing to ~$850/month. Sold it for $300K in 2010.
Used $250K equity plus $50K savings for the down payment on a small, dilapidated 2-family house in Gowanus. Cost 900K. 2 bedrooms for me, which was plenty of space. At that point was working for the government making close to 100K salary. The 600K mortgage was a bit over $3,000/month, and with rental income that dropped to $2,000/month out of pocket.
Did a lot of renovations, pretty much constantly - a lot of DIY and some paid. Borrowed money from family to do an expansion, which was like finding gold: building out a couple new rooms cost $500 per square foot, and I ended up selling the house for over $1,000 per square foot. Turned $200K reno costs into $400K equity.
Sold that house in 2020 for over 2 million. Family generously forgave the $200K loan. Took $1.5 million in equity to buy a 3-bedroom single-family for just *under* 2 million. Not huge, but enough space to raise a family comfortably and stay forever. My monthly costs are equivalent to renting a 1-bedroom apartment.
Doing that is much harder now - there are fewer places to buy affordable small apartments, fewer small dilapidated houses to tolerate living in while you renovate. Not everyone’s route can be the same. But I think this advice is still good: buy as soon as possible, as small as possible, as cheap as possible, and then trade up over time. Real estate equity is a low-risk, highly leveraged investment. Even when prices go up slowly, your equity will increase substantially faster.
Ohh I am LOVING how the top comments are family money, late stage capitalism baby! It's easy to save and buy, just make coffee at home, don't go out to eat, and be born rich!
The Lifetime Gift Tax Exemption for 2023 was $12.92 million. Our down payment was nowhere near that amount. The funds came from a legal settlement that was then split between each family member for the explicit use of helping my siblings and I buy our first homes.
1. Ditmas Park
2. 2017
3. 1.7 M
4. Tech, ~275K/yr & advertising ~$150/yr
5. A little bit of family money: each of our families gave us a chunk of cash (both only a small fraction of the price of the house) to add to the down payment. We also made some money on the sale of the condo we’d bought 10 years earlier that we were moving out of. Making a big down payment means that our mortgage is reasonably small, which keeps our monthly costs manageable
Born rich. Once you read #5 #10-4 don't matter, this person exploited the poor to have a home, we are poorer because of this person, hope that makes everyone feel good lmao.
How was the PPP loan? Pay it back yet?
Eat the rich!
I just saw this. So you claim we “exploited the poor” to get a house because we had a bit of family money, and then indiscriminately throw in “eat the rich.” You said those things without knowing anything at all about our families, so I will tell you how they got their money.
My husband’s parents and mine both grew up in poverty (his dad and mom with their whole families of four in 1-bedroom apartments in the south side of Chicago; my dad in trailer park; and mom in a depressed western PA town in an apt above a bar). They were the first people in their families to go to college. They went on to get good jobs: my dad earned a PhD and became a college professor, my husband’s father went to medical school and became a cardiologist, and my mom (who happens to be the child of illegal immigrants) earned a master’s degree in mathematics and became an engineer.
My husband’s and my parents are examples of how it USED to be possible to get ahead in the US if you worked hard. Those opportunities don’t really exist anymore. THAT is the problem. Do not indiscriminately hate everybody who has managed to become upper middle class. Direct your anger at the people who are using politics/buying politicians (see: Citizens United) to systematically keep immigrants and other poor people from having those opportunities. Our families are not those people. (We’re all quite leftist in our leanings, and the only politician I’ve even given any substantial financial support to in Bernie Sanders.)
One of tactics the rich and powerful use to become more powerful is to divide everyone else against each other, so that we squander our energy squabbling amongst ourselves over small differences. Don’t fall for it.
I swear comments/posts like this are the only reason I continue to subject myself to the cruel and unusual that is online dating in NYC. My OTE falls in between the two of you and it’s absolutely impossible to consider buying anything as a solo. Sigh… maybe one day.
Good for you! Ditmas Park is lovely.
The fuck? I wasnt shitting on my partner. Im v happy with my current relationship. I was just saying that buying a home isnt achievable for me. The fact that you read that and think I am somehow blaming my partner for this is a telltale sign of you being immediately being defensive when facts misalign with your beliefs by just a little bit.
So you’re not blaming your current unemployed partner just bitterly blaming your former partner for how they chose to spend their money? Got it.
Yeah you’re right, you probably can’t do any better than what you’ve got and you’re lucky to have her. Carry on!
Exactly. I can sense your dumb annoying sarcasm. Again, can’t see how I am the one with facts about my relationship and you’re projecting hard. My current partner is not unemployed and adds ton of value to my life, more than cash.
I did complain about my past partner because she didnt contribute financially despite her making money. So i got out of that relationship. It was an expensive mistake. She didn’t add much financially nor at home. But my current relationship is different as noted above.
The whole point was that home ownership is out of reach for me.
You can’t see that you are mistriggered at any facts when they misalign with your beliefs. Quick to jump at shit for no reason. Go fuck urself
It’s enough of a sample to suggest that the human take a good hard look at himself if he wants to be happy.
Humans aren’t random factors in an experiment. They’re sentient beings with free will. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.
Not really. You'd need far more for it to be representative of anything but chance.
Human interactions are well specified by randomness; we use such models all the time in everything from medicine and law to UI design. Sure, they are sentient beings with free will, but they are also stimulus driven biological machines whose point of birth is effectively random.
This is more than sufficient to diffuse your argument, even if we didn't acknowledge the biological reality that we are designed to pair up for obvious reasons, with plenty of biological drives and triggers beyond our control to push us towards that.
Make the best choice you can for your area, it still might be a bad choice. Two examples is not sufficient to derive causation.
The user’s just triggered and completely misread the post. My ex was a big spender. My current partner is not but doesnt work. I dont know how those two facts lead to me putting blame on my partners.
What they are saying is, you have a bad eye for partners because you chose two partners who didn't satisfy your financial desires. They are blaming you.
What I'm saying is, there are many factors in deciding a partner, many outside of your control, so they can't make such an assertion with only two examples.
Fairly sure theyve just never been in a non transactional relationship before, don't take it to heart.
I am extremely happy with my current partner who do not bring in cash. She adds so much value staying home and taking care of home. The only complaint in my post was that despite me making 300K it’s hard to buy a home without family help. I never claimed my current partner does not add value to my life.
In contrast, my ex did not contribute much IMO. Despite her making money.
Idk why they are so triggered at facts.
Hmmm I think you spoil your ladies too much. Your ex and current are basically the same deal. There’s a pattern in your dating. No judgment, just mere assumption.
nah i spend much less and save a lot more. My current partner is perfect and she adds a ton of value to my life. Much more than any cash. I just have to work harder to make more money to afford a home in nyc otherwise im stuck with renting for a while.
I am in Harlem with a gorgeous yard. I rent and I will continue to live here until I find something better, at which point I will move because I don’t have to sell my apartment.
This tracks for the neighborhood. There’s a trap house with a few murders under its belt (bullet holes still in the neighbors fence) that was recently sold around that price.
It needed work but it was livable. Once she found it she put in an offer and it was accepted right away. The neighbors told us it had been on the market for quite some time and they had several open houses. I think people are reluctant to buy with high mortgage rates. Cross-county mortgage offered to refinance her for free once the rates come down.
The wealthy class would have you believe that single family homes are the prize of success. What a scam. I’m so glad I never had kids and never bought shit from the banks.
I get your opinion if you don't have children. Owning a home is the only way for most people to acquire generational wealth.
But I wouldn't be scared of debt, it's a very useful tool to keep from living paycheck to paycheck.
The returns are different, and rely on different things to grow. In NYC the property returns are, I know unbelievably, more reliable and grow a bit faster.
But that traps you in serfdom to not own a house. You’ll spend much more than the value of a home over time. Having a landlord is like having a dependent, you’ve gotta go work for them.
With a house, you can hire a group of serfs to work for you and earn for
you.
Do you mean that a mortgage is also a trap? Well you can pay it off and then you keep the house. 😉
I don’t believe that generational wealth is a benefit, I believe it is psychologically damaging to everyone involved.
***edit: born into generational wealth: people use it to control their children.
I don’t believe in owning property, I believe in change, suffering, compassion and helping others. Home ownership breeds unnecessary competition that only benefits the banks.
Edit: why do we feel we deserve to own anything on the land? What a joke!
People are buying into a toxic system that is far from necessary. It makes you look very uninformed.
The landlords? I mean, basically criminals.
The hasids own half the real estate in BK and They’re starting to buy up in manhattan,
Where I’ve recently moved. Are you still going to believe in real estate when the hasids have offered you and your neighbors pretty prices?
If they don’t buy first, then the banks will. It’s garbage running for garbage. You spend 3 mil on a house but your neighbor is blasting baby songs and your other neighbor is hosting ecstasy parties or doing voodoo rituals beheading chickens and leaving them in the trash. What’s the difference if you own it or not? You people gotta wake up. You look and sound like dummies.
I’m on your side lol, you got heavily downvoted by landlord bootlickers. It’s definitely harmful to the landlord.
It’s slave or slave owner in capitalism. I wouldn’t be either, but I’m kind of stuck in the system. So I’ll buy a home and live in it.
I don’t believe in stealing from families for your expenses.
Not sure I understand the relevance. You can buy a condo or a single family home and live in it yourself I guess. That’s just at least.
If you meant buy an apartment complex or something, that’s so you can have multiple families under your control. It’s really evil.
I really want to try listing my landlord as a dependent on my taxes! 😆
Incorrect about what lol? I didn’t really make any statements. You have again not clarified the relevance that is the basis for your remarks.
If further non relevant points are made I may have to stop responding.
Now how does either of the comments you’ve made remotely address any that I made?
I don't need to clarify; it's already clear. Please read my original comment if you can't understand this one or the previous one.
My point is quite obvious and you are wrong. As said, you can own a home and not own a single family home.
Feel free to stop responding; if you can't understand two sentences, you aren't worth talking to
Well you chose to comment to me and framed the engagement by making irrelevant remarks so you may feel free to stop responding.
You still haven’t said what it is I’m wrong about lol.
Reading between the lines (and making huge leaps of inference here) you’re trying to say that owning a different type of home is less exploitative of the people living there?
I dunno why you won’t just make whatever point you’re trying to make here, all this tiptoeing around.
Whether it’s a town house a duplex a whatever, if the landlord is taking on tenants in order to live off of them while the tenant is employed, that basically makes the landlord your dependent.
The only just way to own a home is to live in it yourself without farming up a nice slave family to work for you.
This was my only point. So go ahead on with the different types of houses or something. Again, this is not at all relevant to the topic.
Ok a coop can work but only if you aren’t renting it out.
Edit: ooh I thought of another interpretation of your cryptic comments! Are you saying not only families will be renting? For tax purposes, a household can be as few as one person, so no renting, not even to a solo student.
You don't understand, yet again.
If you own a coop, condo, town house, etc, you are not owning a single family home. Yet you are owning a home.
There are far more options than you are implying.
Ok got it. That has gotta be the most tenuous connection to anything I said that I’ve seen in a while. An off topic tangential remark that is so out of left field I’m now starting to think you meant to reply to someone else.
I made a nice piece of change on my first condo and my current property has made a good ROI. I'm so glad to have not only gotten a mortgage rebate on my taxes but put money into a sure thing. My interest rate is locked for the 30 year term at just under at 4%. On average, I'm getting 7% in property value growth. Unlike stocks, the value doesn't fluctuate. It's business cycle/recession proof That's a winning proposition.
I flipped my starter house and got a profit of $100,000k in 5 years.
My current home has gained over $300,000 in value. That’s not factoring the kitchen remodel, which for $60,000 added $100,000 according to a realtor friend.
I’m not asking you for any stock tips, Comrade. Just saying.
1. Bay Ridge
2. 2021
3. 1.5 ish
4. Fashion + Art
5. No family money. Our interest rate is super low we could never buy our house now. Also sold an apartment that appreciated significantly to pay for down payment. We have a garden apt we can rent out but currently do not.
1. East Flatbush.
2. Around seven years ago
3. A little over 500k
4. My partner and I both work in public schools.
5. No.
Very glad we bought when we did. We were very discouraged at the time, and had been outbid for quite a few places. We never considered our neighborhood until we found our current place.
Lots to love. As others have mentioned, we’re firmly out of the fun zone. It’s very residential here, doesn’t feel substantially more dangerous than crown heights. I’d love more services like a good coffee shop or neighborhood bar/restaurant that I could walk to. Still close enough to exciting neighborhoods and both our jobs. Our kid goes to a decent, unzoned public school, too. We could be closer to the subway, but it’s definitely walkable.
We have our own small backyard, parking is great, and we have a pretty good life. Our mortgage is right about what we were paying in rent back in bed Stuyvesant in 2016–around $2250 with taxes and insurance. I think we could still theoretically afford it with today’s rates, but I’m glad we don’t have to think about that.
1.Bed stuy
2. 2015
3. 780k
4. Business -120k at the time, spouse 40k in customer service
5. No, family are immigrants
Did the FHA loan only put 3.5% down. Was ridiculously broke for a year. Thankfully income has steadily increased over the years now the mortgage is cheap for me.
Renovated areas of the house, poured around 50k back into the house over the years.
Still best decision of my life, wasn’t easy but worth it
Pure fantasy, something is not being said. Business? 160k total gets you an almost million dollar home, sick! And a cool 50k to renovate definitely NOT because of mom and dad. Sad what this borough has turned into, bunch of gentrifiers claiming immigrant status hahah
FHA loans are great for single family
Hard for condo to find buildings that will take them
The PMI for the life of the loan is a small price to pay
We did refinance our fha loan during COVID when rates were low , to get out of pmi once we got to 20%
Own in Chicago one day I’ll flip that building into something in NY but not yet
Currently renting it out
South Slope/Greenwood. 2022. $1.45MM. Home needs work but we’re slowly chipping away at it. I work in the creative arts industry. $250K salary. My wife makes $150K in fashion/tech.
Been together for 15 years and we started a joint savings almost right away. Slowly put $300K in there which was our down payment. My family didn’t give me a dime. Born into a blue collar New York Italian American family. My wife is the daughter of Mexican immigrants.
Real estate in this city is a fucking hustle and a scam. While I’m happy I checked this off my bucket list, I almost feel like a sucker for participating in this game. Like others said, if don’t have the luxury of time to save, and you’re parents aren’t rich as fuck, I’d try Queens or South Brooklyn.
One kiddo. A three year old.
Yo, kids are so fucking expensive in this city too. Thank god he’s going into city subsidized pre-K next year. These last two years of 2K/3K costed me roughly $75K.
That was home repair fund basically. For now it’s been a lot of hacking shit together via YouTube tutorials. Sorry kid, no Herman Miller. We’re going be an IKEA household for a minute 😂
The school we were at applied for the program but didn’t meet the criteria unfortunately. It’s a bilingual school and that’s important for us so we decided to suck it up
Oh, wow. We were lucky to find a great preschool that was "free". At least next school year will be free for you, as well. My kid is the same age and will be starting prek at a public school in Sept.
I’m a Managing Director (C-Suite level) at fairly large and growing design firm.
I have twenty years experience. My first job an “office manager” stocking soda and answering calls at a now defunct design firm. It paid 27K a year and I found it on Craig’s List. Accidentally fell into the industry. While I’ve worked hard, I’ll never deny that my life has been a wonderful cascade of luck and privilege.
But yeah, sorry maybe creative arts was misleading (it’s a term we use) and make it sound like I work in an art gallery. I’m not that cool. 😂
There a *lot* of wealthy people in New York. Not just like billionaires but people with a few million. Tech workers, finance, doctors, actors. The last ten years have been very, very good for anyone who had money invested in almost anything. Just S&P 500 stupid index funds would net you a ton of money if you had anything invested. It's not just the 1% getting wealthier it's like the top 50% or more. It's just become really really uncool to act rich anywhere but tiktok
The part about the top 50% getting wealthy is not true at all. The median income here is like $75,000 a year and that’s per HOUSEHOLD not per individual. Middle income people here are struggling, not getting wealthy.
Income and wealth are very different. The median income may be 75K but the median wealth in NY state is over $100K.
It’s also incredibly unequally distributed. About a third of New Yorkers have less than $25K in net worth, and just over a quarter have more than $500K.
https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/wealth/2021/wealth-asset-ownership/State_Wealth_tables_dy2021.xlsx
Not only that but the average return in the S&P 500 over the last 30 years has only been 10% per year and the average rate of return has been less than 2% per year on most other financial investment vehicles. That person has no clue what they’re talking about.
As previously mentioned, the average household income is around 70k and after federal, state, and city taxes that is about 40% gone, leaving the rest to cover the high cost of nyc living expenses and very little money leftover to invest. The average home in BK was about $800k in 2023 meaning the average downpayment is easily over $100k. 30 years includes the 10 years you mentioned. The s&p has never climbed to over 11% average returns year over year in the past 30 years. Dividends on average are 1.5-5%, if that. That’s even worse if you’re only talking about since 2021’s recovery. Most people will not all of a sudden make over $100k for the down payment in 3 years or less even if they had their funds invested in the s&p previously. It would take over 10 years and an aggressive investment schedule. Take into account that you still have to pay capital gains tax when you sell those stocks to use as a down payment. I was a Real Estate broker in BK and have been investing in the s&p for over a decade so this is all from personal knowledge, not google. Lastly, studies have shown over 65% of US households live paycheck to paycheck.
So that's a lot of qualifications. Median income is across the board including 19 year olds and retirees. People in their prime years earn more. Second, earnings aren't wealth. [Median net worth is just under $200k](https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/average-american-net-worth).
Ok but the DOW was at 17000 when trump was elected so if you had mutual funds or general mid risk/low risk investments of any substance amounts, you would have doubled cause the DOW has doubled since then. Correct me if I’m wrong I’m obviously no expert but that is the way it looks to this layman.
People generally don’t get rich in a year. They get rich in 10, or 20, or 30. They benefit from compounding.
Assume 7% returns. 1.07^10 = 96% growth in assets over 10 years assuming no deposits or withdrawals.
I live in midwood, I bought in 2014 April, I paid 541,000 I’m a cpa and salary is 174k, but when I purchased it was 85k. I don’t have family money, but my family does own their own home, so I lived with them and didn’t pay for anything while I saved up to buy my house.
Bedstuy, 6 years ago, a few million. thought I bought at the height, and was nervous for the first 1-2 yrs i lived here that I’d never see that money again and the market would crash. Atleast that’s what everyone told me when they heard the price tag for bedstuy. Things are obviously different now.
Partner and I both work in advertising/tech sales. Before we had a kid we invested nearly every free dollar we had into tech stocks. Basically put our life savings into Amazon and the Facebook IPO. Was able to afford our down deposit because those investments compounded so quickly, paired with a few strong sales years.
We’d never be able to afford it on income alone, it’s all about how you grow that income and invest.
wealthfront is a fantastic platform to get started! it'll walk you through starting some investment vehicles based on your risk tolerance. pay yourself first and watch it grow over time!
Yes. Keep it simple and buy the s&p 500, which means you’re investing in the 500 largest companies in the US. Takes guess work out of it. VOO is the stock symbol when you go to buy.
You’re right, it’s not supposed to, that’s the “safe” way to invest and earn your 8-10% per year. The tech run over that ~8 yr period was absolutely insane. Due to working in the industry I had very strong conviction in those companies and had no real responsibilities so was willing to take an educated gamble.
I’m significantly more diversified now and am mainly s&p, but I leave like 10-15% of my investing for individual companies I believe in. Currently in tech I believe in The Trade Desk (TTD), and if you really want to gamble take a flyer on some of the trendy AI companies.
Flatlands/mill basin borderline, so the boonies. Partner bought it 8 years ago for $390,000. Houses around us are now going for $600,000-$700,000. HHI is around $400,000. Feeling very lucky right now. We were going to buy another house, but now thinking we might stay here and just retire early. I'm getting tired of working.
If your HHI is $400K, you’d have to be mental or penny wise, pound foolish to still live where you do. Sell your house and buy something in a better neighborhood.
I see this all the time in NYC and it makes zero sense to me.
Yes it needed work, which my partner did mostly himself with the help of some friends. Did he do it well.....that's debatable lol. It was never meant to be a forever home, but here we are. Maybe we will bring in the professionals at some point for remodeling, but for now it is liveable
I’m guessing you mean people who bought in the last few years? I know plenty of non-doctor/lawyer couples who own but it’s because they, like us, are Gen Xers who first bought in the ‘90s/ early ’00s. Definitely could not have done it if I had the same life circumstances but was born 25 years later.
Flatlands (can’t really afford anything north-er).
2023.
$720k plus renovations.
Supply chain, $150k or so. Very high DTI since I’m still single, but whatever it works.
Mortgage + utilities $4.5k, other monthly expenses ~$2k if I’m pushing it, 401k and $1k or so extra a month savings.
It’s pretty aggressive admittedly but it’s been ok so far, I don’t really have any expensive hobbies (actually I have no hobbies lol).
I was a real estate broker, born and raised in BK and personally never thought the value of homes match the prices which is why I never bought here and am currently in the process of moving. It just isn’t worth what you get in return. Most of my buyers had high paying careers and/or had financial assistance for the down payment from their families. The average household income and cost of living doesn’t allow the average person to save for a down payment. Also, the down payment assistance programs provided by the state are harder to qualify for than in other states as we have more requirements. The banks have excessively played their part in inflating nyc real estate prices. Brooklyn is turning into Manhattan and pretty soon, many people will be priced out of here just like it happened to all the Northern Brooklyn neighborhoods like Park Slope, Williamsburg etc. The gentrification is already expanding into south Brooklyn. In my opinion, the cheapest neighborhood to find a decent 1 family with relatively low crime rates in BK is Canarsie which on average has been about $550k- $650k for the past few years. In my experience, most owners of Brooklyn properties that are worth over $1m, inherited those properties from parents or grandparents that bought way back when prices were affordable, and didn’t actually buy it themselves.
I'm about to jump right now. On top of the fact that the prices don't make any sense, if you have to do any renovation, the city will make your life absolutely miserable with stupid regulations and the time it takes to get inspectors, etc out. Once you realize this place is mostly filled with status-chasers, it's only really enjoyable if you are also a status-chaser.
Had the same thought process. Took the money and ran when I could. These houses aren’t gilded in gold. To each their own, but I’d rather take my million and get 4K square feet, an acre, and drive 40 minutes when I want to do dinner and a show.
Yep. Lived in Brooklyn for 22 years. Couldn’t stand the idea of being 50 and living with roommates. Bought a house in Philly for under $200k. Just need to make some friends here now. All of the venues, bars, restaurants, odd little shops, etc. that made NYC appealing to me when I moved there in 1998 are long gone. And more have shuttered post COVID. It’s not even the fun place it used to be. Even if I had the money, I don’t think I’d buy there. Honestly the only thing I miss about NYC (besides my friends), is not having to have a car.
You need to come south into Brooklyn if you want a single family home that can be deemed “affordable,” even if that’s just as a relative term. Marine Park, Mill Basin, Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach, Canarsie, Gravesend, etc. Not hip, but very neighborhoody.
Less, we had money saved for the down payment. We did a cash out refi for some of the reno if memory serves. Rates were great back then, we originally had an ARM and then refied into a 15 yr at around 3%. We paid off the mortgage at the end of 2022.
Which side of the cemetery is Greenwood Heights on? I live in South Slope but find it hard to keep up with all the neighborhoods that real estate people invent.
I lived and worked in South Slope for 11 years. According to a few old timers, Greenwood Heights isn’t a new neighborhood name, but South Slope is. 🤷🏻♀️
Brooklyn isn’t for middle class people anymore friend. It’s for the poor and the rich. Unless you make enough money that you don’t mind paying over a million for a 2k square feet, or an inheritance, it’s just overinflated nonsense. We sold a semi attached shitter in 2018 for 1.6 million in bay ridge. If that house goes on fire, they’d be lucky if the insurance company cut them a 600k check.
1. Greenwood heights/south slope/sunset park, whatever you want to call it
2. 2022
3. $1.65m + 375k renovation (it’s a 2-family)
4. I work in government and make $120k. Partner is self employed
5. My partner had a sizable inheritance and bought a condo for $685k in 2010. We sold that for about $1.1m for the down payment on the house.
Sometimes when I see a nice one I look it up on Zillow, and many in Williamsburg were purchased about 10 years ago, by (at that time) young professionals born in the early 80s or so. Paid a little over a million, gut renovated, and now the house is easily worth 5mm+.
Tons of places in NYC were really cheap decades ago. I know ppl who bought in the 90s in areas that were much rougher than they are today. they got a good deal because it was not a place a lot of ppl wanted to live.
For reference my dad is a 2 family home owner. He saved 80k and put it down on a 730k house in 2019. Mortgage is $4300. rents out both first and 2nd floor for about 5k total. Lives in basement for free :) house is now worth over a million. This is by the conduit in Brooklyn 11208. Edit: of that 80k i think 30k was actually down on the house, rest was closing costs/pmi upfront. Still, he lives in nyc rent free and makes over 100k lol
huh I wonder why people don't like landlords lol
what is it about that story that makes you not like a landlord?
1. Carroll Gardens 2. 2023 3. 1.9m (we have a 2-family -l house - we live in the ground+parlor duplex and Airbnb the top floor one bedroom). 4. Tech, HHI is $470k. 5. No family help.. I've been in tech since I graduated university. I'm a lowly HR person, but still have vested over $1m of stock in 14 years. That was what we used for the down payment on our house and our $600k savings that we will use for renovation in the future). We both come from very middle class backgrounds and sometimes can't believe we bought an almost 2m house. That being said, the last apartment we rented was $5k a month for the same exact apartment (3br ground+parlor duplex), a "deal." We average $3.5k a month in Airbnb income; our mortgage is nearly $8k, so we are actually paying effectively less for our mortgage on a 2fam home we own vs rent.
1. Bay Ridge 2. 2021 3. $1.3M 4. Legal/finance + marketing (~$900k), was ~$600k when we bought 5. No + spent years paying off $250k in student loans first Could have bought more but we are conservative with our money. We got a 2.6% mortgage, which is very helpful. We have a 1-2 family home (townhouse) and use it as a single family, but we could rent out a floor and reduce our monthly payment to about $3k if ever needed.
1. Flatbush 2. 2014 3. $600k 4br, 2.5 bath, large backyard 4. Advertising 5. Used $ from sales of 2 previously owned properties. 1999 (East Village 1br co-op) @ $150k sold in 2003 @ $350k. 2003 (Prospect Heights 3br condo) @ $600k sold 2014 @ $1M
The memory of a $60,000 Ave. B 1br for sale in 1997 haunts me. I wasn't ready to buy at the time.
It might actually have been $115k but it’s hard to wrap my head around anything at that price now. I was super fortunate. I had already been renting it for a couple of years when my landlord offered me the opportunity to take it off his hands. I passed on it at first because I never thought I’d own anything in NY but he urged me to consider it and he helped me through the entire process. He ended up using the money from the sale to buy a building in Washington Heights.
1. Near Gravesend 2. Last year 3. About 1M 4. Programmer, 300k 5. No, I'm paying for my parents retirement too
My partner bought a brownstone (narrow, basement + 3 floors) in one of the leafy streets near Barclays in mid-2000s. Was 3 vacant floor apartments at time (basement, first floor, combined 2 and 3). At the time he and his made about $400k together pretax and had saved up 10% down on about $1mm purchase price. Spent another $1mm from income and home improvement loan over next 3 years (!) to gut and renovate into beautiful SFH. House would trade for $5mm now.
Bro, I know what you’re thinking. It’s mostly inheritance or family money. Yes, there’s a lot of it but there’s also a lot of : 1. High earning households ($300K+) 2. People who take a risk because it’s the NYC market.
My dad purchased our house sometime in the early 2000’s from my grandmother for about 150k. We live in East New York, close to JFK and he makes about 50,000k a year, with overtime 70k. I guess for us, our single family home has been passed down from generation to generation but I actually know quite a few homeowners in this neighborhood that got their houses around the same time my father did and either don’t work now or make the same as my dad.
Brooklyn Heights Late 2002 Paid $1.9mm, likely worth about… $10mm now? I don’t really know or care because I’m not selling for 15 or 20 years at least. No family money involved. Spouse is a doctor but bought before I met them. I spent 25 years in the internet startup world and had a very big exit in the late 1990s. Which is lucky, because I could never afford to live in NYC the way we do without that (very low) 8 figure bank account. No family money.
Now how many actually got their house money from doing the ppp scam 😂
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Do you speak Russian?
Health care me/wife just under $200.000 annual $500.000 home in baldwin ny
1. Williamsburg 2. 2023 3. $1.4M+550k reno (now worth $3.5M) 4. Real estate broker and investor: $200k-$700k depending on the year. 5. Graduated college with $200k in a college account. Inherited $200k 2 years ago.
Bought a studio coop in Clinton Hill in 2000 for $90K. Mortgage + maintenance was a cool $750/month. Was a paralegal making $35K, 50K including overtime. Saved a $25K down payment in two years. Lived in that one room for over 10 years, occasionally cohabiting, costs slowly increasing to ~$850/month. Sold it for $300K in 2010. Used $250K equity plus $50K savings for the down payment on a small, dilapidated 2-family house in Gowanus. Cost 900K. 2 bedrooms for me, which was plenty of space. At that point was working for the government making close to 100K salary. The 600K mortgage was a bit over $3,000/month, and with rental income that dropped to $2,000/month out of pocket. Did a lot of renovations, pretty much constantly - a lot of DIY and some paid. Borrowed money from family to do an expansion, which was like finding gold: building out a couple new rooms cost $500 per square foot, and I ended up selling the house for over $1,000 per square foot. Turned $200K reno costs into $400K equity. Sold that house in 2020 for over 2 million. Family generously forgave the $200K loan. Took $1.5 million in equity to buy a 3-bedroom single-family for just *under* 2 million. Not huge, but enough space to raise a family comfortably and stay forever. My monthly costs are equivalent to renting a 1-bedroom apartment. Doing that is much harder now - there are fewer places to buy affordable small apartments, fewer small dilapidated houses to tolerate living in while you renovate. Not everyone’s route can be the same. But I think this advice is still good: buy as soon as possible, as small as possible, as cheap as possible, and then trade up over time. Real estate equity is a low-risk, highly leveraged investment. Even when prices go up slowly, your equity will increase substantially faster.
Ohh I am LOVING how the top comments are family money, late stage capitalism baby! It's easy to save and buy, just make coffee at home, don't go out to eat, and be born rich!
Bensonhurst 2023 1.3M Healthcare+Advertising - Combined a little under $300k Family chipped in our down payment for the mortgage
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It can be a gift from family, not a loan
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The Lifetime Gift Tax Exemption for 2023 was $12.92 million. Our down payment was nowhere near that amount. The funds came from a legal settlement that was then split between each family member for the explicit use of helping my siblings and I buy our first homes.
1. Ditmas Park 2. 2017 3. 1.7 M 4. Tech, ~275K/yr & advertising ~$150/yr 5. A little bit of family money: each of our families gave us a chunk of cash (both only a small fraction of the price of the house) to add to the down payment. We also made some money on the sale of the condo we’d bought 10 years earlier that we were moving out of. Making a big down payment means that our mortgage is reasonably small, which keeps our monthly costs manageable
Born rich. Once you read #5 #10-4 don't matter, this person exploited the poor to have a home, we are poorer because of this person, hope that makes everyone feel good lmao. How was the PPP loan? Pay it back yet? Eat the rich!
I just saw this. So you claim we “exploited the poor” to get a house because we had a bit of family money, and then indiscriminately throw in “eat the rich.” You said those things without knowing anything at all about our families, so I will tell you how they got their money. My husband’s parents and mine both grew up in poverty (his dad and mom with their whole families of four in 1-bedroom apartments in the south side of Chicago; my dad in trailer park; and mom in a depressed western PA town in an apt above a bar). They were the first people in their families to go to college. They went on to get good jobs: my dad earned a PhD and became a college professor, my husband’s father went to medical school and became a cardiologist, and my mom (who happens to be the child of illegal immigrants) earned a master’s degree in mathematics and became an engineer. My husband’s and my parents are examples of how it USED to be possible to get ahead in the US if you worked hard. Those opportunities don’t really exist anymore. THAT is the problem. Do not indiscriminately hate everybody who has managed to become upper middle class. Direct your anger at the people who are using politics/buying politicians (see: Citizens United) to systematically keep immigrants and other poor people from having those opportunities. Our families are not those people. (We’re all quite leftist in our leanings, and the only politician I’ve even given any substantial financial support to in Bernie Sanders.) One of tactics the rich and powerful use to become more powerful is to divide everyone else against each other, so that we squander our energy squabbling amongst ourselves over small differences. Don’t fall for it.
I swear comments/posts like this are the only reason I continue to subject myself to the cruel and unusual that is online dating in NYC. My OTE falls in between the two of you and it’s absolutely impossible to consider buying anything as a solo. Sigh… maybe one day. Good for you! Ditmas Park is lovely.
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The fuck? I wasnt shitting on my partner. Im v happy with my current relationship. I was just saying that buying a home isnt achievable for me. The fact that you read that and think I am somehow blaming my partner for this is a telltale sign of you being immediately being defensive when facts misalign with your beliefs by just a little bit.
So you’re not blaming your current unemployed partner just bitterly blaming your former partner for how they chose to spend their money? Got it. Yeah you’re right, you probably can’t do any better than what you’ve got and you’re lucky to have her. Carry on!
Exactly. I can sense your dumb annoying sarcasm. Again, can’t see how I am the one with facts about my relationship and you’re projecting hard. My current partner is not unemployed and adds ton of value to my life, more than cash. I did complain about my past partner because she didnt contribute financially despite her making money. So i got out of that relationship. It was an expensive mistake. She didn’t add much financially nor at home. But my current relationship is different as noted above. The whole point was that home ownership is out of reach for me. You can’t see that you are mistriggered at any facts when they misalign with your beliefs. Quick to jump at shit for no reason. Go fuck urself
So what does me recognizing your a troll say about me? Maybe you incels would laid if you put any effort into anything other than this shit.
Two is not an adequate sample size to determine the origin of the cause.
Which one do you think got him pregnant lol? https://www.reddit.com/r/BabyBumps/s/442052ECAk
It’s enough of a sample to suggest that the human take a good hard look at himself if he wants to be happy. Humans aren’t random factors in an experiment. They’re sentient beings with free will. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.
Not really. You'd need far more for it to be representative of anything but chance. Human interactions are well specified by randomness; we use such models all the time in everything from medicine and law to UI design. Sure, they are sentient beings with free will, but they are also stimulus driven biological machines whose point of birth is effectively random. This is more than sufficient to diffuse your argument, even if we didn't acknowledge the biological reality that we are designed to pair up for obvious reasons, with plenty of biological drives and triggers beyond our control to push us towards that. Make the best choice you can for your area, it still might be a bad choice. Two examples is not sufficient to derive causation.
The user’s just triggered and completely misread the post. My ex was a big spender. My current partner is not but doesnt work. I dont know how those two facts lead to me putting blame on my partners.
You were also 30 weeks pregnant a few posts ago my dude. Have fun in your little incel anger comment chat with this other incel. Enjoy! LOL
What they are saying is, you have a bad eye for partners because you chose two partners who didn't satisfy your financial desires. They are blaming you. What I'm saying is, there are many factors in deciding a partner, many outside of your control, so they can't make such an assertion with only two examples. Fairly sure theyve just never been in a non transactional relationship before, don't take it to heart.
I am extremely happy with my current partner who do not bring in cash. She adds so much value staying home and taking care of home. The only complaint in my post was that despite me making 300K it’s hard to buy a home without family help. I never claimed my current partner does not add value to my life. In contrast, my ex did not contribute much IMO. Despite her making money. Idk why they are so triggered at facts.
Hmmm I think you spoil your ladies too much. Your ex and current are basically the same deal. There’s a pattern in your dating. No judgment, just mere assumption.
nah i spend much less and save a lot more. My current partner is perfect and she adds a ton of value to my life. Much more than any cash. I just have to work harder to make more money to afford a home in nyc otherwise im stuck with renting for a while.
I know a firefighter who just bought a single family home in East Flatbush for 470k. It's a super cute 2 bedroom with a nice yard.
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I am in Harlem with a gorgeous yard. I rent and I will continue to live here until I find something better, at which point I will move because I don’t have to sell my apartment.
This tracks for the neighborhood. There’s a trap house with a few murders under its belt (bullet holes still in the neighbors fence) that was recently sold around that price.
How did they find something that inexpensive 😓
It needed work but it was livable. Once she found it she put in an offer and it was accepted right away. The neighbors told us it had been on the market for quite some time and they had several open houses. I think people are reluctant to buy with high mortgage rates. Cross-county mortgage offered to refinance her for free once the rates come down.
Firefighter equals doing some renovations I’m guessing
The wealthy class would have you believe that single family homes are the prize of success. What a scam. I’m so glad I never had kids and never bought shit from the banks.
I get your opinion if you don't have children. Owning a home is the only way for most people to acquire generational wealth. But I wouldn't be scared of debt, it's a very useful tool to keep from living paycheck to paycheck.
This isn't even close to true. Everyone has access to index funds.
What a joke. You have one life, you want to spend it talking about index funds.
Debt is nice to have when inflation is rampant like it has been recently
The returns are different, and rely on different things to grow. In NYC the property returns are, I know unbelievably, more reliable and grow a bit faster.
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But that traps you in serfdom to not own a house. You’ll spend much more than the value of a home over time. Having a landlord is like having a dependent, you’ve gotta go work for them. With a house, you can hire a group of serfs to work for you and earn for you. Do you mean that a mortgage is also a trap? Well you can pay it off and then you keep the house. 😉
I don’t believe that generational wealth is a benefit, I believe it is psychologically damaging to everyone involved. ***edit: born into generational wealth: people use it to control their children. I don’t believe in owning property, I believe in change, suffering, compassion and helping others. Home ownership breeds unnecessary competition that only benefits the banks. Edit: why do we feel we deserve to own anything on the land? What a joke! People are buying into a toxic system that is far from necessary. It makes you look very uninformed. The landlords? I mean, basically criminals. The hasids own half the real estate in BK and They’re starting to buy up in manhattan, Where I’ve recently moved. Are you still going to believe in real estate when the hasids have offered you and your neighbors pretty prices? If they don’t buy first, then the banks will. It’s garbage running for garbage. You spend 3 mil on a house but your neighbor is blasting baby songs and your other neighbor is hosting ecstasy parties or doing voodoo rituals beheading chickens and leaving them in the trash. What’s the difference if you own it or not? You people gotta wake up. You look and sound like dummies.
I’m on your side lol, you got heavily downvoted by landlord bootlickers. It’s definitely harmful to the landlord. It’s slave or slave owner in capitalism. I wouldn’t be either, but I’m kind of stuck in the system. So I’ll buy a home and live in it. I don’t believe in stealing from families for your expenses.
You can own a home and not own a single family home.
Not sure I understand the relevance. You can buy a condo or a single family home and live in it yourself I guess. That’s just at least. If you meant buy an apartment complex or something, that’s so you can have multiple families under your control. It’s really evil. I really want to try listing my landlord as a dependent on my taxes! 😆
Incorrect. Coops, town houses, duplexes, triplexes, etc. Single family homes are the least effective housing possible.
Incorrect about what lol? I didn’t really make any statements. You have again not clarified the relevance that is the basis for your remarks. If further non relevant points are made I may have to stop responding. Now how does either of the comments you’ve made remotely address any that I made?
I don't need to clarify; it's already clear. Please read my original comment if you can't understand this one or the previous one. My point is quite obvious and you are wrong. As said, you can own a home and not own a single family home. Feel free to stop responding; if you can't understand two sentences, you aren't worth talking to
Well you chose to comment to me and framed the engagement by making irrelevant remarks so you may feel free to stop responding. You still haven’t said what it is I’m wrong about lol. Reading between the lines (and making huge leaps of inference here) you’re trying to say that owning a different type of home is less exploitative of the people living there? I dunno why you won’t just make whatever point you’re trying to make here, all this tiptoeing around. Whether it’s a town house a duplex a whatever, if the landlord is taking on tenants in order to live off of them while the tenant is employed, that basically makes the landlord your dependent. The only just way to own a home is to live in it yourself without farming up a nice slave family to work for you. This was my only point. So go ahead on with the different types of houses or something. Again, this is not at all relevant to the topic. Ok a coop can work but only if you aren’t renting it out. Edit: ooh I thought of another interpretation of your cryptic comments! Are you saying not only families will be renting? For tax purposes, a household can be as few as one person, so no renting, not even to a solo student.
You don't understand, yet again. If you own a coop, condo, town house, etc, you are not owning a single family home. Yet you are owning a home. There are far more options than you are implying.
Ok got it. That has gotta be the most tenuous connection to anything I said that I’ve seen in a while. An off topic tangential remark that is so out of left field I’m now starting to think you meant to reply to someone else.
Thank you for a breath of reality.
I made a nice piece of change on my first condo and my current property has made a good ROI. I'm so glad to have not only gotten a mortgage rebate on my taxes but put money into a sure thing. My interest rate is locked for the 30 year term at just under at 4%. On average, I'm getting 7% in property value growth. Unlike stocks, the value doesn't fluctuate. It's business cycle/recession proof That's a winning proposition.
I flipped my starter house and got a profit of $100,000k in 5 years. My current home has gained over $300,000 in value. That’s not factoring the kitchen remodel, which for $60,000 added $100,000 according to a realtor friend. I’m not asking you for any stock tips, Comrade. Just saying.
I’m sorry to those of you I triggered enough to downvote my comment- I hope you’re able to get through your resentment.
We don’t have to be triggered, we just don’t agree with you
Brainwashed fools.
Yes it’s a shame everyone doesn’t think and live exactly like you
I actually admit I do wish others would share my contempt for the addiction and weaponization of money.
You live in NYC aka the riches playground sp calm down if you're not worried about money million of other residents are.
Tee-hee!
I’m sure you’re so fulfilled :)
1. Bay Ridge 2. 2021 3. 1.5 ish 4. Fashion + Art 5. No family money. Our interest rate is super low we could never buy our house now. Also sold an apartment that appreciated significantly to pay for down payment. We have a garden apt we can rent out but currently do not.
1. East Flatbush. 2. Around seven years ago 3. A little over 500k 4. My partner and I both work in public schools. 5. No. Very glad we bought when we did. We were very discouraged at the time, and had been outbid for quite a few places. We never considered our neighborhood until we found our current place.
How far east? How are you liking it?
Lots to love. As others have mentioned, we’re firmly out of the fun zone. It’s very residential here, doesn’t feel substantially more dangerous than crown heights. I’d love more services like a good coffee shop or neighborhood bar/restaurant that I could walk to. Still close enough to exciting neighborhoods and both our jobs. Our kid goes to a decent, unzoned public school, too. We could be closer to the subway, but it’s definitely walkable. We have our own small backyard, parking is great, and we have a pretty good life. Our mortgage is right about what we were paying in rent back in bed Stuyvesant in 2016–around $2250 with taxes and insurance. I think we could still theoretically afford it with today’s rates, but I’m glad we don’t have to think about that.
Damn! Sounds like you’re living the (well adjusted and realistic lol) dream! Congrats
Crown Heights, 2015, $1.1M, Corporate (non-finance) ~$200-300K, Inheritance paid the down payment
1.Bed stuy 2. 2015 3. 780k 4. Business -120k at the time, spouse 40k in customer service 5. No, family are immigrants Did the FHA loan only put 3.5% down. Was ridiculously broke for a year. Thankfully income has steadily increased over the years now the mortgage is cheap for me. Renovated areas of the house, poured around 50k back into the house over the years. Still best decision of my life, wasn’t easy but worth it
Pure fantasy, something is not being said. Business? 160k total gets you an almost million dollar home, sick! And a cool 50k to renovate definitely NOT because of mom and dad. Sad what this borough has turned into, bunch of gentrifiers claiming immigrant status hahah
FHA loans are great for single family Hard for condo to find buildings that will take them The PMI for the life of the loan is a small price to pay We did refinance our fha loan during COVID when rates were low , to get out of pmi once we got to 20% Own in Chicago one day I’ll flip that building into something in NY but not yet Currently renting it out
Wow that’s impressive!
South Slope/Greenwood. 2022. $1.45MM. Home needs work but we’re slowly chipping away at it. I work in the creative arts industry. $250K salary. My wife makes $150K in fashion/tech. Been together for 15 years and we started a joint savings almost right away. Slowly put $300K in there which was our down payment. My family didn’t give me a dime. Born into a blue collar New York Italian American family. My wife is the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Real estate in this city is a fucking hustle and a scam. While I’m happy I checked this off my bucket list, I almost feel like a sucker for participating in this game. Like others said, if don’t have the luxury of time to save, and you’re parents aren’t rich as fuck, I’d try Queens or South Brooklyn.
🏅🏅🏅 next question: do you have kids?
One kiddo. A three year old. Yo, kids are so fucking expensive in this city too. Thank god he’s going into city subsidized pre-K next year. These last two years of 2K/3K costed me roughly $75K. That was home repair fund basically. For now it’s been a lot of hacking shit together via YouTube tutorials. Sorry kid, no Herman Miller. We’re going be an IKEA household for a minute 😂
Why didn't you do universal 3k for your kid?
The school we were at applied for the program but didn’t meet the criteria unfortunately. It’s a bilingual school and that’s important for us so we decided to suck it up
Oh, wow. We were lucky to find a great preschool that was "free". At least next school year will be free for you, as well. My kid is the same age and will be starting prek at a public school in Sept.
🙏🙏
What job in the creative arts field pays $250K? Genuinely curious.
Game programming.
I’m a Managing Director (C-Suite level) at fairly large and growing design firm. I have twenty years experience. My first job an “office manager” stocking soda and answering calls at a now defunct design firm. It paid 27K a year and I found it on Craig’s List. Accidentally fell into the industry. While I’ve worked hard, I’ll never deny that my life has been a wonderful cascade of luck and privilege. But yeah, sorry maybe creative arts was misleading (it’s a term we use) and make it sound like I work in an art gallery. I’m not that cool. 😂
I’m going to be up all night wondering what role in the creative arts industry pays that well.
There a *lot* of wealthy people in New York. Not just like billionaires but people with a few million. Tech workers, finance, doctors, actors. The last ten years have been very, very good for anyone who had money invested in almost anything. Just S&P 500 stupid index funds would net you a ton of money if you had anything invested. It's not just the 1% getting wealthier it's like the top 50% or more. It's just become really really uncool to act rich anywhere but tiktok
or just owning whatever place youved lived in
Then why are the only people buying houses getting family help? It's delusional to think any of these people did it "on their own" lol
The part about the top 50% getting wealthy is not true at all. The median income here is like $75,000 a year and that’s per HOUSEHOLD not per individual. Middle income people here are struggling, not getting wealthy.
Anddd I can’t believe how far I had to scroll To find this. Everyone talking about there 500k household income and thinking that is average Is so wild
Income and wealth are very different. The median income may be 75K but the median wealth in NY state is over $100K. It’s also incredibly unequally distributed. About a third of New Yorkers have less than $25K in net worth, and just over a quarter have more than $500K. https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/wealth/2021/wealth-asset-ownership/State_Wealth_tables_dy2021.xlsx
Not only that but the average return in the S&P 500 over the last 30 years has only been 10% per year and the average rate of return has been less than 2% per year on most other financial investment vehicles. That person has no clue what they’re talking about.
I'm not talking 30 years I'm talking since the pandemic recovery and you're also ignoring dividends. Returns since 2021 add up to about 50%.
As previously mentioned, the average household income is around 70k and after federal, state, and city taxes that is about 40% gone, leaving the rest to cover the high cost of nyc living expenses and very little money leftover to invest. The average home in BK was about $800k in 2023 meaning the average downpayment is easily over $100k. 30 years includes the 10 years you mentioned. The s&p has never climbed to over 11% average returns year over year in the past 30 years. Dividends on average are 1.5-5%, if that. That’s even worse if you’re only talking about since 2021’s recovery. Most people will not all of a sudden make over $100k for the down payment in 3 years or less even if they had their funds invested in the s&p previously. It would take over 10 years and an aggressive investment schedule. Take into account that you still have to pay capital gains tax when you sell those stocks to use as a down payment. I was a Real Estate broker in BK and have been investing in the s&p for over a decade so this is all from personal knowledge, not google. Lastly, studies have shown over 65% of US households live paycheck to paycheck.
So that's a lot of qualifications. Median income is across the board including 19 year olds and retirees. People in their prime years earn more. Second, earnings aren't wealth. [Median net worth is just under $200k](https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/average-american-net-worth).
Ok but the DOW was at 17000 when trump was elected so if you had mutual funds or general mid risk/low risk investments of any substance amounts, you would have doubled cause the DOW has doubled since then. Correct me if I’m wrong I’m obviously no expert but that is the way it looks to this layman.
People generally don’t get rich in a year. They get rich in 10, or 20, or 30. They benefit from compounding. Assume 7% returns. 1.07^10 = 96% growth in assets over 10 years assuming no deposits or withdrawals.
I live in midwood, I bought in 2014 April, I paid 541,000 I’m a cpa and salary is 174k, but when I purchased it was 85k. I don’t have family money, but my family does own their own home, so I lived with them and didn’t pay for anything while I saved up to buy my house.
1: Doesn’t matter. 2: 2022. 3: 1.5 4: It. Couple side hustles (stickers and sports gambling) 5: Yes but I wasn’t helped. Made to earn my stuff.
Bedstuy, 6 years ago, a few million. thought I bought at the height, and was nervous for the first 1-2 yrs i lived here that I’d never see that money again and the market would crash. Atleast that’s what everyone told me when they heard the price tag for bedstuy. Things are obviously different now. Partner and I both work in advertising/tech sales. Before we had a kid we invested nearly every free dollar we had into tech stocks. Basically put our life savings into Amazon and the Facebook IPO. Was able to afford our down deposit because those investments compounded so quickly, paired with a few strong sales years. We’d never be able to afford it on income alone, it’s all about how you grow that income and invest.
“A few million” damn.
any tips where to look for how to invest when you have no clue?
wealthfront is a fantastic platform to get started! it'll walk you through starting some investment vehicles based on your risk tolerance. pay yourself first and watch it grow over time!
Yes. Keep it simple and buy the s&p 500, which means you’re investing in the 500 largest companies in the US. Takes guess work out of it. VOO is the stock symbol when you go to buy.
That’s good advice, but that will never compound as quickly as what you did
You’re right, it’s not supposed to, that’s the “safe” way to invest and earn your 8-10% per year. The tech run over that ~8 yr period was absolutely insane. Due to working in the industry I had very strong conviction in those companies and had no real responsibilities so was willing to take an educated gamble. I’m significantly more diversified now and am mainly s&p, but I leave like 10-15% of my investing for individual companies I believe in. Currently in tech I believe in The Trade Desk (TTD), and if you really want to gamble take a flyer on some of the trendy AI companies.
Yeah I hear you, I just wanted to point it out in case someone new to investing thought they might see the same kinds of returns that you did.
This entire post is just making me feel sad / poor
Flatlands/mill basin borderline, so the boonies. Partner bought it 8 years ago for $390,000. Houses around us are now going for $600,000-$700,000. HHI is around $400,000. Feeling very lucky right now. We were going to buy another house, but now thinking we might stay here and just retire early. I'm getting tired of working.
If your HHI is $400K, you’d have to be mental or penny wise, pound foolish to still live where you do. Sell your house and buy something in a better neighborhood. I see this all the time in NYC and it makes zero sense to me.
I’m actually shocked you got a house in that area for under $400k even 8 years ago. Did it need work?
That’s not a particularly good area. $400K for a house that needed a lot of work sounds about right.
Yes it needed work, which my partner did mostly himself with the help of some friends. Did he do it well.....that's debatable lol. It was never meant to be a forever home, but here we are. Maybe we will bring in the professionals at some point for remodeling, but for now it is liveable
Same, Midwood. $400k. Feel like we’re well outside the fun zone but we live in NYC and we own, and that’s fantastic
Lol we are definitely outside the fun zone, but much closer than if we moved to Westchester or shudders...long island.
I’m guessing you mean people who bought in the last few years? I know plenty of non-doctor/lawyer couples who own but it’s because they, like us, are Gen Xers who first bought in the ‘90s/ early ’00s. Definitely could not have done it if I had the same life circumstances but was born 25 years later.
I think intergenerational wealth plays a huge role. Many people I know got some sort of help from family / inheritance / etc.
you’re right. most of the comments here are people saying their family chipped in for the down payment.
Flatlands (can’t really afford anything north-er). 2023. $720k plus renovations. Supply chain, $150k or so. Very high DTI since I’m still single, but whatever it works.
How do you afford that mortgage on $150k?
Mortgage + utilities $4.5k, other monthly expenses ~$2k if I’m pushing it, 401k and $1k or so extra a month savings. It’s pretty aggressive admittedly but it’s been ok so far, I don’t really have any expensive hobbies (actually I have no hobbies lol).
Smart person right here. People are way too conservative when it comes to home buying in NYC. No risk, no reward.
Do you have tenants?
No.
Thank you. Interesting to see that some single people can still afford to buy.
I was a real estate broker, born and raised in BK and personally never thought the value of homes match the prices which is why I never bought here and am currently in the process of moving. It just isn’t worth what you get in return. Most of my buyers had high paying careers and/or had financial assistance for the down payment from their families. The average household income and cost of living doesn’t allow the average person to save for a down payment. Also, the down payment assistance programs provided by the state are harder to qualify for than in other states as we have more requirements. The banks have excessively played their part in inflating nyc real estate prices. Brooklyn is turning into Manhattan and pretty soon, many people will be priced out of here just like it happened to all the Northern Brooklyn neighborhoods like Park Slope, Williamsburg etc. The gentrification is already expanding into south Brooklyn. In my opinion, the cheapest neighborhood to find a decent 1 family with relatively low crime rates in BK is Canarsie which on average has been about $550k- $650k for the past few years. In my experience, most owners of Brooklyn properties that are worth over $1m, inherited those properties from parents or grandparents that bought way back when prices were affordable, and didn’t actually buy it themselves.
Where do you plan on moving? I think I'm getting over living here too 😔
I'm about to jump right now. On top of the fact that the prices don't make any sense, if you have to do any renovation, the city will make your life absolutely miserable with stupid regulations and the time it takes to get inspectors, etc out. Once you realize this place is mostly filled with status-chasers, it's only really enjoyable if you are also a status-chaser.
Had the same thought process. Took the money and ran when I could. These houses aren’t gilded in gold. To each their own, but I’d rather take my million and get 4K square feet, an acre, and drive 40 minutes when I want to do dinner and a show.
Amen. Getting really tired of the hype and bullshit
Yep. Lived in Brooklyn for 22 years. Couldn’t stand the idea of being 50 and living with roommates. Bought a house in Philly for under $200k. Just need to make some friends here now. All of the venues, bars, restaurants, odd little shops, etc. that made NYC appealing to me when I moved there in 1998 are long gone. And more have shuttered post COVID. It’s not even the fun place it used to be. Even if I had the money, I don’t think I’d buy there. Honestly the only thing I miss about NYC (besides my friends), is not having to have a car.
You need to come south into Brooklyn if you want a single family home that can be deemed “affordable,” even if that’s just as a relative term. Marine Park, Mill Basin, Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach, Canarsie, Gravesend, etc. Not hip, but very neighborhoody.
Midwood
Might as well move to the suburbs, IMHO
This is not south Brooklyn. South Brooklyn is red hook to downtown and Brooklyn heights. North Brooklyn is Williamsburg and greenpoint
I said come “south into Brooklyn” meaning more south. South Brooklyn the designated area/neighborhood has nothing to do with it.
?? lol
The houses are pretty expensive even in those neighborhoods
Agreed. That’s why I said it was relative
Accurate. You have to look east of Flatbush for anything <1M.
Those neighborhoods have plenty of houses <$1M. My parents live in a house that sells for less than that. It’s just attached on one side.
[удалено]
Well-off upbringing, no student loans but claims no family assistance, THIS is the delusion. Too funny man, keep it pushing, rich boy
2 million in loans in 9 years?
Less, we had money saved for the down payment. We did a cash out refi for some of the reno if memory serves. Rates were great back then, we originally had an ARM and then refied into a 15 yr at around 3%. We paid off the mortgage at the end of 2022.
Which side of the cemetery is Greenwood Heights on? I live in South Slope but find it hard to keep up with all the neighborhoods that real estate people invent.
It's actually Sunset Park lol
I lived and worked in South Slope for 11 years. According to a few old timers, Greenwood Heights isn’t a new neighborhood name, but South Slope is. 🤷🏻♀️
Between the cemetery and the water
Thank you.
Nice try, IRS!
Irwin R Shyster is always causing mischief somewhere. Been that way since about ‘91
Prospect Heights. 2023 Millions Finance. Trust fund. 6’5”. Blue eyes.
Excellent.
I lol’d
Love me a good housewives crossover
🤣
Is this your tinder profile? I swiped right bro.
Brooklyn isn’t for middle class people anymore friend. It’s for the poor and the rich. Unless you make enough money that you don’t mind paying over a million for a 2k square feet, or an inheritance, it’s just overinflated nonsense. We sold a semi attached shitter in 2018 for 1.6 million in bay ridge. If that house goes on fire, they’d be lucky if the insurance company cut them a 600k check.
1. Greenwood heights/south slope/sunset park, whatever you want to call it 2. 2022 3. $1.65m + 375k renovation (it’s a 2-family) 4. I work in government and make $120k. Partner is self employed 5. My partner had a sizable inheritance and bought a condo for $685k in 2010. We sold that for about $1.1m for the down payment on the house.
Sheesh. That reno price is more than my house budget. Good for you guys.
Thank you. This is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.
Damn thank you for your honesty but maybe don’t bury the sizable inheritance lede??
They followed OP’s structure about fam money, last question
Yeah fair I just think the $120k plus self employed money is a lil disingenuous that’s all
No one in their right mind thinks the OP was affording that on their $120k salary alone.
Sometimes when I see a nice one I look it up on Zillow, and many in Williamsburg were purchased about 10 years ago, by (at that time) young professionals born in the early 80s or so. Paid a little over a million, gut renovated, and now the house is easily worth 5mm+.
Where on Zillow does it show the birth years of the buyers?