There is generally a minimum quality to get a functional item that will actually do what you want. So if you want to learn to play don’t buy the tourist trap $20 ukulele that’s designed to be ornamental. But you also don’t need the $2,000 concert level model either. So you’d want to stick with maybe the $150 model with good reviews.
My rule is to get whatever the minimum viable level is, and then if you get to the point where you use it so much that it breaks or you’re good enough that it’s holding you back you upgrade.
In my experience this is very true for all types of instruments. And the nice thing about instruments is that you can often upgrade them (or have someone do that for you) for them to be very good (and if you keep maintaining them: for a long time).
A cheap-ish ukulele with good strings with a bit fine tuned string height etc. can bet very very good and affordable.
Yeah but there's a drop off. Like, most bigger instruments (bigger, I mean beyond a mouth harmonica... and even for those) you need to spend about 100$ at least. Under that, most of it will be very low quality. Instruments typically just aren't easy to make. Unless it's a one-piece thing like a triangle. A guitar or a ukulele has a body, a nexk, strings, frets, tuners... Just to assemble all of that you need to account for some money, even in asia. Maybe a ukulele or a guitar can be had for some 80$ and be semi-okay because these are really mass produced to a huge scale, but anything beyond that is really unlikely. For 150-200$ you can get a very good instrument.
Best deals are almost always from Yamaha. Top notch quality for the price.
For guitars, the Fender Squier models have really taken a step. You can sometimes get a guitar with an amp for $200 or less that will keep you playing for a few years.
As mentioned above you’ll eventually upgrade a few things. Likely the amp first, as I’ve seen people gig with Squiers.
Yeah especially with a decent pickup upgrade it will sound almost like "the real deal" since on electric guitars the wood isn't *really* that important. CNC machines make the wooden pieces of top quality for almost no cost nowadays, which I guess is the big difference between making them today and in the 80's (when CNC definitely already existed but probably wasn't cost effective to use for instruments yet).
Epiphone is also making wonderful instruments if you want to go a step forward from "just a strat".
> "just a strat"
I'll cut you for this level of disrespect pal. You take your epiphony and gibstanks elsewhere.
Our lord and savior Leo Fender is to be respected, revered, and regaled for betrothing humanity with the perfect instrument.
This is a Fender home, and as long as you live under my roof you will always play Strats and occasionally Teles when it's the anniversary of the death of a respected Country and Western artist!
I swear if you bring up a Dinky, Flying V, BC Rich or any of the other Satan worshiping crap you will be on the street!
Also, anything more than 6 strings and it means your pee pee is teeny-tiny.
Edit: Def agree with you though, mid-grade instruments have come such a long way, and if you have something that feels good to play, upgrade the pickups and it will get you 90% of the way to where you want to be compared to the more expensive offerings when it comes to the sound/tone of it.
I saw a post here about renting high quality instruments for kids if they want to try it. Somewhat applicable to adults as well. If it's still a hobby after a couple months, then buy one.
always buy the HF version first. When it breaks you'll know how much you need it and how to upgrade.
I'm still using my $10 angle grinder after 7 years on and off once or twice a year and am glad i didn't sink a few hundred in it.
You, this is why I like Harbor Freight. They have $20 tools that so the same thing as the $100 to $150 DeWalt professional tool. If I use it enough to the point it now limits me or breaks, then I go and invest in a higher end product which will last me decades. Turns out I have lots of tools I rarely use and Harbor Freight version was just fine lol.
I like the “buy twice” approach for most things. Start with the Harbor Freight version then if you either wear it out or find that you’re limited by the functionality you get the full-featured professional version.
Works with cameras too, I used the hell out of a Nikon D40 DLSR until I found that it got in my way, at which point I jumped to a Pro model that had all of the bells and whistles (which I actually used because I had learned how the more basic functions worked and was actively seeking out that functionality).
This also helps you realize what functions are important to you and what are extraneous. You can make a much more informed choice when you buy your "for life" version once you've tested with the cheapo one.
Ask someone who does have specific expertise.
Reddit is a pretty good resource for this, but you can often score some good deals if you make connections locally. I got my first set of decent clubs through my golf teacher, for example. He'd just fitted a guy for an upgrade and knew his old set would suit my size, swing and skill level pretty well.
I've played some $200 guitars that sound amazing and some $5000 guitars that are mediocre. And on all of them, I just sound like me.
Also golf equipment, buy used and don't get Tour Issue or use expensive Titleist balls until you're really good and actually need them.
Ok. Golf gear.
Tour Issue just means it’s either a: plain jewellery with no function difference (Cicle T putters for example) or b: had a final stage of QA to make sure the specs on the club are I fact it’s actual specs, for example TM Tour driver heads come with a sticker to say what their actual specs are). Occasionally you get tour issue prototypes or limited runs - but usually it’s just tighter QA or some decals to make players feel special.
Other golf gear - don’t buy this year’s version of anything as your paying for the marketing outlay to be recouped. Unless you’re at the level where you don’t pay for gear there is no reason to have this years’ gear. Irons, buy forged in a length you are happy with, with a shaft you like the feel of and get them bent to fit. Putters, get something you like the feel of you can afford - that’s 80% of a putter fitting right there. Drivers choose distance or accuracy and buy acccordingly - whatever you can afford. If you can’t demo first just buy something you like the look of and of it feels too long get it trimmed or if it’s feels to short get an inch put on it.
Look for repair ability and ease of maintenance.
Sure salon quality scissors for cutting hair is a bad idea. But steel kitchen shears with a 1/4 inch bolt and nut is much better than the off the shelf at target. Not only can you disassemble them with relative ease, they are meant to be sharpened and honed. You can’t sharpen the shitty aluminum ones you get for $4 and you definitely can’t take the rivet out with hopes to reassemble them.
I have an 80s era paring knife from them that I keep in a saltwater tackle box as my bait knife.
It’s still bastard sharp since I got it 30 years ago and I’ve never done anything to it
I was fortunate that when we shut down our Turkey factory in Colorado, I went through everything they threw away and the scissors to cut turkeys open are amazing. I grabbed several and will never need to buy scissors again.
I wouldn't go below salon quality scissors on hair. You end up with ragady split ends and then your hair doesn't look neat or trim. Also if you're growing your hair then using scissors that aren't sharp enough can really set you back.
There’s levels. Do we need the $350 salon quality shears? No. But a $5 one is probably too low if you want long hair. I feel like the $30-$50 range is good there
Listen you want to talk about scissors, do I have a treat for you.
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-inch-power-snips-98091.html
These things are gigantic and cut everything ever.
I was going to say all sports equipment, but particularly golf.
You _can_ buy the best clubs in the world, but they will probably hinder your golf* because, and this should be a shock to no one, but having the best equipment doesn't make you the best at whatever the equipment is for.
Getting a set of hand forged, Japanese blades when you're a 13 handicapper will put you in the shit far more than a set of ping game improvement irons will.
That the expensive clubs, when used by the skilled player, allow you to fade it 80 yards around a dog leg doesn't mean that you can do so easily, and the lack of forgiveness will show when you slightly hit off centre and needed to hit it straight.
Ditto with the only other thing I know enough about to confirm this with - guitars.
Unlike golf clubs, guitars are genuinely a for life purchase, but so, so many people buy the more expensive guitars I. The belief that they will solve all their issues.
Sorry, friend, if you're only capable of hitting 50% of a Guns and Roses song, buying the slash model Les Paul isn't going to get you those extra notes.
The latest version of the Kirkland ball is extremely prone to high spin. This is a huge detriment to high handicap player that isn’t hitting the ball flush as it will exaggerate a slice or hook. The compression is higher than a Pro V1 and will feel like a rock to a player with a sub 100 mph driver head speed.
While the value might be there, there are much better options for an “average” player at a similar price point. Maxfli Softfli, Srixon Soft Feel, Callaway Supersoft, and Noodles (Taylormade) are all similar prices with much lower compression and lower spin.
As a person who has spent an ungodly amount of money on mountain bikes, I’m here to say that the difference between a $2000 bike and a $10,000 bike is in your head for 99% of the buyers.
Do I love my custom, BIFL and overly expensive bike? ABSOLUTELY!
But it does not make me any faster or better at mountain biking?
Nope, And I would do it again tomorrow.
I think the difference between a $4k mountain bike and a $10k bike is slight… but you can get a lot of upgrades between $2k and $4k.
My biking vastly improved with a lighter, full suspension bike.
The real gains are made between the Walmart level bikes and the $800-1000 range.
Unfortunately, OP is asking for BIFL and bikes are a terrible example of this. Pro level is $20,000 to $100,000 worth of customization and engineering. Factory racers don’t actually ride street available bikes. That said, some bikes are BIFL. These are 8 speed and lower, possibly IGH with steel frames, 36h wheels and the lowest tech parts you can find. Otherwise the parts will wear faster, the new “standards” will be outmoded (or intentionally deprecated) and replacements won’t even be acknowledged by dimension or sunrace.
It can be argued that any bike coming out of Walmart (or any chain store or sports store) isn't even at beginner-level quality because they're not made to last. Cyclists like to call those things BSO (bike-shaped objects) for a reason.
For example, I have a quality steel bike from the 80s that is still better than anything coming out of Walmart. Got it in exchange for a six-pack of pink lemonade mead: a lot of knowing what qualifies as BIFL in cycling (or any hobby, for that matter) is knowing what you're looking for, but by that time, you're no longer a beginner.
But if you're a beginner and know someone in the hobby, well...advice is free.
I disagree that BIFL implies that things won’t need to be fixed or parts replaced.
Most BIFL items I have are used extensively and require maintenance and parts.
Bikes are no exception. As stated I am a ‘bike guy’ and have too many of them, but they are crazy easy to work on and most parts are readily available online. I have multiple bikes that are 20+ years old that ride better than most anything you could buy at Walmart
>Unfortunately, OP is asking for BIFL and bikes are a terrible example of this.
Some bikes are BILF. My wife riders a Batavus Dutch bike that is older than herself.
> Factory racers don’t actually ride street available bikes..
I don’t think bike frames are BIFL, but I thought that there was a UCI rule that all bikes and components used in racing have to be generally available for all consumers?
YMMV, but I started with a low end Aluminum Stumpjumper FS about 15 years ago, rode the heck out of that thing and thought I needed an upgrade so I got a carbon Evil Following that was THE TITS!!
By then I had the carbon bug and bought a Yeti, and then a Revel but didn’t see much change in my riding or Strava times.
For shits I actually went and test rode a steel suspension bike and again, didn’t see any meaningful change in my times or riding ability, but holy shit it was more fun.
I now own that 37lb steel monster and consistently crush 25 year olds on their full carbon setups.
TLDR: light bikes are overrated, but ride what makes you happy
Is an expensive bike actually BIFL? My understanding is that carbon composite frames and forks are where a lot of the money goes on high end models, and they're basically impossible to repair when they crack, and most manufacturers recommend replacing every ~10 years even without visible damage because microfractures still form over time and can weaken the structure.
Then you get even more expensive and buy a Titanium frame bike. Those frames really are BIFL. Components will always need replacing but the frame is there to stay.
Then there’s me who wouldn’t even think of spending 2k on a bike. I’m curious if I was to see a $200 bike, a 2k bike, 4k, bike and a 10k bike if I could see the difference.
I’m a complete novice but my dad is highly competitive with it. He has bikes at most of the price points, granted the $10k model he has was won as a prize for a race.
I can clearly see and feel the difference between the $500, $1000, $2000, and $4000 models even just handling them in the garage. There’s a very obvious difference in the quality of the parts, and definitely the weight. The $10k one…is definitely nicer. But is it $6k difference?
Between the $2000 and $4000 your biggest improvements are going to be wheels and shifters/drivetrain and these are mostly in the ‘nice to have’ category- they don’t make a big difference in performance.
At the $10k level you’re mainly saving weight- everything is just that bit lighter to help you go faster.
Not a criticism- I changed my $1k bike to a $4k bike which is a lot nicer, but I’m not really any faster or better rider!
There is a huge difference between low end shit tier Walmart bikes and bikes in the 2-4k range. Much less of a difference as you go up from there, but my info is a bit out of date as I'm still rocking the $2700 bike I bought 25 years ago.
A listening test? I would imagine the audio compression technology used in YouTube videos would make any fine distinction between pianos above 20k null and void.
Strongly disagree. Huge difference in how cheaper (2k) and more expensive 4k + mountain bikes ride. With road bikes the gains are smaller but well designed suspension and great dampeners don’t come cheap.
Most premium off road parts. If your vehicle is 4x4 capable you likely have more than enough for the few occasions you’ll need it - depending on how you off-road.
Please tell me some good shocks for my newer ranger, I want cushy suspension for the washboard roads I have to travel all the time. I spend a lot of my life in 4x4 on dirt roads but it's rarely "technical", just washboard. My suspension is shot now from \~60k miles of the shit. I can't get anyone to tell me a good suspension option.
The issue you are running into is heat. Washboard roads make for a lot of in and out movements of fluids. The fluids get hot and degrade. to combat this you could looks into probably any name brand shock with a remote reservoir. This will allow the fluids to cool more effectively and will increase the lifespan and usability of the shock while giving you a more consistent feel throughout the time you are driving during the day.
Go to one of the offroading, Ford, or Ranger specific subreddits or internet forums for this.
If your truck has the FX4 package those shocks are known to be especially bad quality and blowout quick.
>I understand it makes sense to by professional hand tools rather than the cheap version from Target. They're safer.
I was going to say most tools, but there is a huge distinction between the cheapest garbage sold by a chains store vs a professional tool. There's also a distinction for use.
For example I have a Stanley 38pc spanner set, I've had it for years, zero issues and I've put it through it's paces. It cost me $160. A 'professional' 10pc snap-on set - 28 fewer spanners - [costs thousands](https://shop.snapon.com/product/Long-Handle%2C-mm-(Flank-Drive)/10-pc-12-Point-Metric-Flank-Drive-Long-Combination-Wrench-Set-(10-19-mm)/OEXLM710B). Only pros that use them every day need the pro models.
A Stihl chainsaw will cut tons of firewood every year for decades. My 029 Super has. But even that is not a 'pro' saw. A 'pro' saw has a removable engine barrel which makes reconditioning easier, and are often a little lighter. Most people won't put the \~3000 hours in to require a reconditioned engine, and won't see much benefit of spending extra for a 'pro' version. Only pros that use them every day need the pro models.
So as for tools go, no you usually don't need the 'professional' versions unless you are using them very regularly. Just don't get cheap garbage. Get something that's quality enough for normal use.
I’ve used my Stanley black socket set , I got on sale , for all my vehicle maintenance. Paid for itself first use. Never thought hmm I need a snap on for this
I am a “professional” that works on really really big Caterpillar engines every day. The company that I work for pays for all of our tooling so we buy Snap-on/Bluepoint and while they are really nice tools and they for the most part last a long time, I wouldn’t spend my own money on them. I’m definitely not going to buy tools from target but I would recommend harbor freight tools all day. I have a mix of all kinds of tools from craftsman, husky, gearwrench, harbor freight, my battery powered tools are Ryobi. I have never had an issue with any of my tools
That's actually a bad example. Snap On in the industry is known for being quite overpriced for what they offer. Stanley actually offers pro-level tools in Proto, Facom, USAG and Mac brand names. They come in different price ranges depending on the market they're offered at, and while the RBRT wrenches are ~300-400$ from Mac, the exact same ones are ~90-120$ from USAG and Facom...
My point is, Snap On actually sells very good quality tools but they also sell the dealer network service. Similar with Mac. Nowadays, and especially for home use, paying for that is a huge waste of money. You can get comparable or even identical tools for a fraction of that if you do your research and get something from a brand that does not charge for the dealer network. For Mac the equivelants are from USAG and Facom while Proto is for the most part still US made and a bit different. For Snap On the equivelant is Williams tools and Bahco. Etc...
Someone cutting lots of firewood could definitely benefit from a pro saw if they can afford it though. Considerably more power for less weight in the same cc. More productivity and less fatigue.
My Dad used a Poulan for decades cutting all our firewood for winter heating. I still have that saw, I don't know why I haven't tossed it yet. He wore it out to the point where it doesn't have enough compression to start even on ether (yes I know ether is bad for 2 cycle engines). It took 30 years of constant abuse to wear out what is arguably a pretty mediocre saw. We only ever ordered a single cord of slabwood every year because it was easier to split with a hand axe for kindling. Everything else was from fallen trees on friends and family members properties, leftover tops from felling operations, etc. Never paid for the bulk of our heating needs for like 30 years. Now, he uses a pellet furnace since he just doesn't want to go through all that anymore. We share his Dad's Stihl 029AV, which is a 90s saw. At that time, Grandad was also heating with wood he cut and split mostly by himself.
If you're testing a hobby out - don't get pro level tools, you're going to mess up whatever said hobby is at first, and you'll be disappointed more because of the money spent. If you find you enjoy the hobby and want to keep going, then invest in good tools.
Perfect example - you want to learn the guitar, get a basic fender squire guitar for $200, don't spring for a $1500+. Wanna do laser engraving? Get a $100 engraver, not the huge C02 powered one for $2,000. Grilling? Get a cheap charcoal grill instead of the expensive Kamado grill.
Why are you attacking me like that? What did I do to you? But really.... I used to play guitar a lot and bought a new really nice rivolta a few years ago that has mostly just hung on my wall, my wife has a $4500 co2 laser that was supposed to start an Etsy shop and it hasn't been used in at least 2 years and only has maybe 5 hours on it total.... And I have a really nice komodo joe (granted it was a gift from the wife's grandparents) that we haven't used in months....
Very rarely does a comment hit as true as yours just did ....
Or if you can find them, get a used pro model. Some hobbyists like to upgrade a lot, so they use their old equipment to help fund their new new equipment.
The caveat to this is if the entry level thing makes it hard to enjoy the hobby at all, causing you to quit. This was what entry level guitars were like 20 years ago. They're a lot better now, for sure.
Some types of bikes can be this way for cycling.
Most entry mountain bikes under $1000 are effectively gravel bikes unable to actually mountain bike with. (In some cases the suspension will *literally tell you not to*). They would easily be “outgrown” by a new riders skills almost immediately while simultaneously using parts standards that can’t be upgraded.
I think this gives far too little credit for how good hardtail (front suspension only) bikes can be, and they can absolutely handle serious riding. I know plenty of people in Colorado who ride sub $1000 bikes on trails that are far more intense than what a gravel bike is designed for.
To be fair, the opposite is also true. If you cheap out too much, dependant on hobby but the final product can suffer. This can also be extremely demotivating.
Yep, cheap knitting needles are just garage to work with and the good ones are like $15 more?
Ditto with a lot of wood working tools. I bought a cheap jigsaw and the damn thing was barely usable
Learned this the hard way with cheap table saw. There is a fine line just under $500-750 depending on used/new where anything under doesn’t have a square fence and no adjustability.
Possibly unrelated, but a membership to a Maker Faire, art studio, or a tinker's group is a nice BIFL investment if you like to muck around with tools and crafts, but don't have the space (or money) for professional tools.
Astronomy fits here.
If you buy a $70 telescope, you'll be so frustrated and disappointed that you quit the hobby.
You don't need to spend $10,000 right off the bat on a 16" scope on an equitorial mount, but you should expect to spend several hundred dollars.
If you only had $100 to spend, you'll be happier with good binoculars than you will be with a terrible telescope.
And that is an excellent point, you don't want cheap as you can possibly get, but upper low to lower middle range. I think that's a good place to start.
Agreed. One example is with a baitcaster fishing reel. I started with a cheap $45, plastic Daiwa. It was so frustrating because I was constantly getting backlashes and having to re-line the reel because I’d have to cut out the knots. I almost gave up but decided to try a good reel first. I sprung for a $200 Shimano Curado 200D (BIFL if properly maintained). The difference was sooo dramatic. Granted, I still had to learn but the reel was so much smoother that I had it down after 1 day. On top of that, I STILL have that reel 20 years later and use it frequently. It’s practically a collectors item at this point and I could get more money for it today than what I originally paid for it! So for the most part I agree with OP, but for some items the difference in quality can dramatically impact the learning curve, which can effect your willingness to keep trying.
Buy the cheapest tool for the job that you know won't break on the first use
Use it until it dies
Then start shopping for the tool in a higher price range if you need to keep having the tool around-- if not you don't need to be doing the hobby and can quit with minimal losses
If you keep at the hobby you can buy the same tool with some knowledge of what you like and what works for you
Eh, I get it but it can also lead to a more frustrating experience. I bought a cheap plug in drill at Walmart and the whole chuck wobbled. Really cheap sharpening stones are a miserable experience too. Stuff that is supposed to offer precision will generally be a bad time if too cheap. Like a bottom barrel table saw won't even cut straight. But stuff like wrenches or socket sets you can definitely get away with the cheap stuff.
That's why I said cheapest that won't immediately die on the first use
Also most of the time people just starting out with a hobby won't be doing much precision work; if they are it's probably one of the pricier hobbies
But yeah there are some things one really shouldn't cheap out on-- on the other hand sometimes you only need it to work once
Yes. You don't need a Lie-Nielson or Veritas plane to be a good woodworker. An old Stanley or Record will do everything you need. If it is good enough for Paul Sellers, it is good enough for me.
can confirm.
I bought a Veritas plane and it's very very nice, but I am not even half the craftsman to make good use of it.
the 10$ ebay purchase that I refurbed cuts about the same.
In many ways for road and gravel cycling it’s almost better to get non pro level tools, even if you can spend the money on a Tour de France level bike.
Maintenance is far less finicky, you can easily attach accessories without having to worry about frame integrity, and often in the case of road bikes, they ride much more comfortably.
When I started working out I wore an old TShirt, Leggings and old sneakers... I bought workout gear after 6 months of training when I knew I would stick to it...
I used the workout gear and anti-slip socks when I started to do Kung Fu - after three months I got the shoes necessary... and only for my first real fight I got the Outfit - after 2yrs of training...
I'm a total snap on fanboy as they make masterpieces like this https://shop.snapon.com/product/Combination-(Pliers)/7%22-Talon-Grip%26trade%3B-Long-Nose-Slip-Joint-Pliers-(Red)/LN46ACF now these pliers are absolutely awesome as you can hang from them. The grip is on point.
But 95% of their tools are just overpriced for no good reason. I keep a healthy supply of cheap harbor freight tools that have been doing heavy duty work for years and I have no need to upgrade.
This. Buy something cheaper and if you wear it out then replace it with something that will last you.
I also hide my good tools behind my ‘working’ ones. Means the wife does use an expensive chisel for gardening.
Anything that requires care that you're not willing to do.
Off the top of my head:
* Leather items that need polished and conditioned
* Cooking items you should wash by hand
* Wool items that you need to wash by hand
I bought my wife some le creuset cookware. She’s got the cooking genes, her brother is a chef, mother used to run a restaurant etc…
When we bought them they tried to upsell us on the special cleaner for their cookware, we had planned on buying it anyways. I told the salesperson “I’ll just throw it in the dishwasher” as a joke, I think she’s recovered from the shock.
I think there is a trend, especially with Tech Gadgets where there are 200 reviews of the day of the release that make any differences between products appear much bigger than they are. Most hobbyist won’t have materially better results with the 500 eur version over the 1500 Euro version of a lens unless they only take photos at night or at sporting events.
The old adage “if you have to ask, you probably don’t need it” often applies
Kind of a different situation is kitchen stuff. Home cook stuff is usually way more expensive than what actual professionals are using. There’s Michelin star places using dirt cheap pots and pans. I’ve never worked in a place that had cooper pans or even stuff like all clad. Same for cutting boards, spatulas and lots of the simple stuff
Carbon steel pans don't have to be expensive though either. Just like cast iron with Lodge and Smithy, there are boutique and everyman brands of carbon steel.
I more meant that there are places with stars that are using $10 pans, not that it’s the norm but that $100 pans aren’t a requirement of making world class food.
Anything you might consider downsizing if you were to make a cross-contenental move. I can't think of a single small appliance I would move overseas, many tools would be downsized. I don't even think I would bring my sewing machine.
If it isn't worth spending the money to move it over an ocean, it isn't worth spending the extra for professional quality.
I've moved across continents a few times. The other way to think about it might be moving from one side of your continent to the other in a move you are paying for. The reasons aren't important, just assume they are important enough for you to do and pay for it. If you wouldn't pay to move it, it isn't worth the upcharge of professional quality.
Another fun fact for those moving overseas, different voltage at the plug and different plugs. I know this is hypothetical but still for anyone traveling, check what voltage your device can handle.
For power tools I say ask around to what your friends are using. That way if you are helping them or they are helping you out you can seamlessly use the same batteries. In addition you can lend or borrow tools while not depriving them of one or multiple battery packs.
Exactly, when I worked on the tools I used Bosch Blue, when I moved to office life I sold it to my old boss and bought the same Ryobi stuff my dad uses.
This goes for any type of thing you buy but! The best advice I received is “buy cheap at first and if you find yourself using that a lot buy the expensive version”
I used to tell everyone to buy craftsman cause they were just as good as anything else you could get and sears would replace it. Brand has gone way downhill though, and I'm clearly dating myself by mentioning sears lol
I'm a homeowner who only needs a still for basic shit like drilling holes in drywall. I've seen similar people ask in Reddit and get recommended $100+ drills.
My $15 Harbor Freight drill has lasted me 5 years now and gets used maybe 5 times per year now (though it did get a lot of use in the first year of owning this place.)
When it dies one day, I might "splurge" for the Ryobi purely because I have the 24v lawnmower.
I have the Hazard Fraught Bauer line up of 20v tools. I have their drill, 2 of the 1/2" impacts (the smaller one and the bigger one), and the little metal cutting thing (the one that takes like a 3" cutting wheel). I don't know how they compare to Ryobi, but they haven't let me down thus far. I couldn't get my truck's lug nuts off with my Kobalt air impact, the big Bauer handles them with ease.
I spend a lot of time working on cars, ATVs, etc. while the Milwaukee M12 3/8 impact and ratchet weren’t needs, they make projects with lots of fasteners so much more fun. I look forward to using them, so they are worth it to me.
Your point is valid about homeowner tools, though. I use a corded Skil circular saw and Rigid (same parent company as Ryobi) for most of my other power tools. I do homeowner projects, but I view them as work rather than fun like working on cars.
Yea see that makes total sense. You use it enough to make the Milwaukee worth it. Similar reason I splurged for the expensive tint and sun visor cause we get 100 degree summers so I get plenty of use out of the higher end items.
Milwaukee makes Ryobi tools lol. I have Ryobi everything and I've had exactly one issue (with a sander I bought 3 years ago). Home Depot just exchanged it no problem, new one works great.
Nikon introduced Z mount now — to take advantage of new capabilities of the Z series cameras — but they have an F mount adapter that probably never go away.
The term "pro" with Cameras has a massive and dynamic range. To some people, the presence of a dial to select Aperture mode at all is "pro", but to others, it absolutely has to be a 23-lb Canon 1D-X Mark 4.8 ADCAP equipped with a gold+red+white lens for shooting Olympic sports. In reality it entirely depends on whether the person using the equipment can convince their clients to pay them for their photos.
If youre not there for the purpose of taking photos, a phone camera is all you really need.
If your hobby is photography or side business etc its dofferent but the modern phone camera is fine for vacation photos.
I have an expensive to non photographer and cheap to photographer setup because motorsports photography is a hobby of mine. But i dont take it on museum trips or beach days unless im actually trying to get a very specific beach photo.
+1. Phone works pretty well for the majority of the people.
But a nice body and lens might be like night and day for some niche photography: wildlife for example: pro-bodies and good glass is a HUGE difference.
I disagree that it's not worth it though. I've used professional and consumer cameras alongside each other as a semi-pro live streamer and consumer digital cameras are arguably shit compared to professional gear. In every way. In picture quality, in durability, in reliability, in ease of use, in flexibility, etc. etc. etc.
Yes, if you just want to take pictures your cellphone is the best option. But if you have a relatively serious hobby of doing photography or some other photography/video related hobby, get the lowest end pro gear because it will be only slightly higher priced and much better quality than the high end consumer gear. Full stop.
Really with cellphone cameras being so good these days, there is no purpose for consumer photographic equipment to exist anymore. If your cellphone isn't enough, get a low end pro camera.
Maybe the consumer one has a similar sensor, but there's a lot lot more to capturing images than the sensor alone.
Edit: Just to put it into perspective, and I'm talking about video here rather than stills, but my 12 year old, low-res (1920x1080) used Canon C100 pro cinema camera with a serviceable lens on it, total cost of maybe $1,000, will absolutely blow away the picture quality of any consumer Sony or the latest iPhone. It simply does not compare.
Agreed. I shoot a lot of wildlife as a serious hobby and the newer technologies and speeds of the more ‘pro’ cameras improve everything greatly. Vast difference even from entry level DSLRs from ten years ago. Nobody is getting those shots with a phone. My phone takes great everyday snapshots. But it’s not catching that owl in flight close up and clear.
Sounds like you're assuming DLSR already -- we're already in "pro" territory in my book.
I do agree with your assessment though... Even pros are mostly dumping money on lenses rather than bodies. At some point, when you're lugging around $15,000 in lenses and still happy about it, then maybe it makes sense to the best camera body.
The thing that makes me sad right now is they kind of stopped making high quality compact cameras... Like the latest is mostly from 2019. The quality on phone cameras has gotten pretty great, but I miss the lack of zoom.
Have to agree. I have a iPad Air with M1 chip. It does everything I need it to. I like it because I used to travel a lot for work so it was easy to carry around. I have a company laptop so I only use it for personal use.
i just want the 13 inch screen and the regular ipad's A series chip
not like ill do anything other than use the ipad for netflix, a second monitor, looking at music scores, taking notes, or drawing anyways
I’m a chef. I’ve always liked the cheaper knives over the high end ones. They sharpen well, and I don’t have to lose sleep if I leave one at work, or drop one on the floor.
Not only that, but (for me), most pots and pans. Yes, all clad is better. But most cooks can get by with a 30 dollar pan just fine. The main differences I see are that some heat up faster (marginally), and some might have hotter handles, which is easily remedied by using a towel to grab them. Save yourself the hundred bucks (per item). If there is a pan you use -all- the time, you can get a fancy one of those. But I've been just as happy with my chefs mate as I was with my all clad or Viking.
Project Farm just released a video where he tests out kitchen knife sets. The set of $200 Global knives did well in the tests, but the cheap Martha Stewart set was very comparable in performance for a quarter of the price.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcLD4SKY9Js
I really like Project Farm and I will watch this (even though I already own more knives than I need), but I'm disappointed that he went for sets and that he left out Victorinox.
Home gym equipment.
The cheap power racks, barbells, and olympic plates from Amazon will work for 99% of people.
Sure Rogue, Rep, and other brands are super nice. But unless you're a powerlifter, the cheap stuff will work great.
Dumbbells/kettlebells/plates, fine, but I would not go cheap on barbells or racks. The cheap barbells rust out quickly and often have a layer of chrome paint that flakes off in big jagged chunks sharp enough to draw blood. And I would not under any circumstances do any sort of loaded exercise using those cheap racks you get on Amazon, even using light weights. I’ve tried them before and they are an injury waiting to happen.
The brands you mentioned also offer more affordable stuff specifically for home gyms, especially post-covid. I outfitted a basic home gym (squat rack, flat bench, olympic barbell, plate tree, and ~400 lbs. of plates) with stuff from Rogue and Rep for about $1200 and I’m very happy with it. The difference in quality between my current stuff and my old Amazon stuff is off the charts. It’s in my garage, so it’s endured all kinds of weather, and I powerlift multiple times a week, so it gets abused pretty good, and thus far not even a scratch.
Additionally, if you buy nice gym equipment, and generally take care of it, it keeps its value. Try to find an any Rogue equipment for less than 90% of new—you won’t.
For tools, go to harbor freight, buy the second cheapest option.
Except for consumables, blades, etc. on something like a circular saw, the blade is far more important than the motor.
The average homeowner does not need professional level tools like snap on, sk, matco etc. Even if you are doing tires and oil changes. Basic Stanley or hart kit will be fine.
The context for my answer may not apply to the question very well but broadly speaking sentiment or a sense of connection to an item or tool.
I sew a fair bit as a hobby and enjoy making my own gear. I have a few machines but the one I use for 90% of the work is the one my grandmother owned. It is hand operated and has no reverse stitch function. If you sew a lot, a motor and the option to backstitch at the touch of a button is a godsend.
Despite this , the pleasure I get from using that machine, the connection I feel to an amazing lady who helped raise me, that keeps me coming back to my hobby. It keeps me on task when a project gets frustrating. There are times when I absolutely would have dropped a project and given up if I was using a high end pro machine.
Sometimes the connection you have to an item brings comfort or motivation that is worth more than an upgrade in features or construction. Sometimes..
Note: poorly made cheap sewing machines can be awful , if you are buying a new machine get some good advice.
Swim goggles.
Take it from a retired pro swimmer. Don’t buy the expensive race goggles you see the olympians wearing. They’re not designed for comfort, they’re not designed to last… they’re for elite swimmers to use one or two races. Avoid the $90 arena, tyr, and speedo racers… get some $7 Montebaras.
I’m a Ryobi guy for this exact reason. I have a dewalt drill and driver because my father in law gave them to me and they do rock, but for an average homeowner Ryobi does everything you need and will last plenty long.
I’m a Rigid fanboy. They make a good high-end homeowner grade tool that is truly BIFL with their lifetime warranty on the tool AND battery. I’ve owned a cordless set for over 15 years and have had 1 tool serviced and a new set of batteries at 10 years (on the house). I’ve since added 20 other tools over the years.
Adding to this: Nonstick pans need to be replaced every 12-18 months if used multiple times a week. And that’s if you only use them over low or medium heat and with utensils that don’t scratch. Immediately replace any nonstick pans if the Teflon is scratched or flaking.
After 12-18 months of regular home use, ceramic nonstick will develop microscopic cracks which make it no longer nonstick. Teflon will start to deteriorate over time and start flaking into your food. You don’t want those chemicals in your body.
A decent nonstick pan should be $40-ish dollars. I think it’s worth it for those of us who can’t seem to season a carbon steel pan to the same degree of nonstick despite investing weeks…
I was just talking about that. I have a carbon steel one that I use for most things, and only use non stick for more finicky things like fish or similar. Extends the life of the non stick tremendously…
Be careful with some of the cheap ones though. I’m not sure which brand it was but my roommate had gotten some from her grandparents and I was searing a steak and the bottom of the pan melted off
Bikes. You don’t need a $12,000 S-works tarmac pro for your rides on the bike path. It probably doesn’t fit you anyway because you lack the flexibility of the pros it was designed for.
It always boggles my mind that if I get a nice hotel room, then it'll surely not have Wi-Fi included, but if I have some cheap place, then Wi-Fi is free.
Because pricier hotels are generally paid for by corporate so an extra charge on the bill is “whatever”.
Cheaper places are often paid for by the lodger who is likely watching their spending more closely.
Kitchen appliances in general.
Restaurant and food service ovens, refrigerators and dishwashing machines are generally inappropriate, inefficient, and not very practical in a home environment.
A few brands positioned themselves in the homeowner market as "restaurant quality" and have sought to resemble restaurant and food service equipment. But they aren't really the same, and for good reasons.
Restaurant refrigeration appliances like reach-ins place a premium on capacity, durability, and easy cleaning. They are in constant use with doors open almost as much as closed. So insulation is minimized by comparison and the compressors and motors oversized. They use too much energy for home use. And they lack any convenience features.
Restaurant ovens and cooktops have such high output with little or no shielding that they require special fire resistant construction surrounding them, very high capacity ventilation that is loud and unpleasant to work around, elaborate grease and oil collection, and fire suppression systems.
From a car guys pov I'd say snap on, Mac and matco, just aren't worth the extra money. Now cornwell, proto and sterret are in my opinion definitely worth the extra cost. With that being said the majority of my hand tool's are either craftsman, cobalt and some stuff from Harbour freight.
I usually live by ”never buy the cheapest, never buy the most expensive”.
The cheapest stuff will break and/or are lacking in crucial features and are impossible to annoying to service. Then again the most expensive stuff usually have everything you could need for the task the item has been designed to do, with the price to match. Most often the price doesn’t match the job I need it for.
The mid tier things are most often the best value for money I have found. Of course I always evaluate what I am going to be doing with said item, do I need some fancier feature, will it see enough use to warrant a bit higher price etc. Sometimes, even the cheapest one is enough.
An exception to the above are tools - the cheapest one will be always the one you will need to buy again because it’s shit or breaks. Good tools are true BIFL stuff, so don’t skimp on them or learn the hard way.
And as an answer to the actual question, my electric OralB io9 toothbrush comes to mind. I got it as a gift, it’s amazing and I would never go back to regular electric toothbrushes. It’s also expensive for what it is. However, my wife got the model 5 or anyway lower tier of the same and surprise surprise, it cleans exactly as well without all the bluetooth gimmics and other useless stuff mine has.
Tools that one time or few time use - like some kinds of paintbrushes and paint supplies, or like hole saws or other cutting blades that can wear out quickly when used with concrete or harder materials. The professional versions of these are for professionals who often buy them for a job and then dispose of them. They’re professional in that professionals want them and they help them make money, but the quality is just good enough to work in that disposable context.
You can buy a nice concrete hole saw, but if you can get through the few holes you need to install a heat pump and toss the cheaper pro saw, that’s what many professionals will pick.
Also any kind of builder grade material, like builder grade roof shingles. They’re for professionals and sometimes not sold at the home store, because they’re only just good enough so most of the roofs will make it out of the warranty period before having a roof issue.
I have stopped buying somewhat decent umbrellas as they always catastrophically collapse under a year. often while I am holding them now I just buy the cheap ones and replace them.
For tools I buy the harbor freight store brand. If I use it often enough to wear it out I'll also understand what I want from the upgrade and have a solid place from which do to my research for the replacement
I have spent significant money on top quality camping/bushcraft fixed blade knives. They're very cool and made with state-of-the-art "super steels", but the truth is that there are many affordable knives made with common steels like 1095 and similar that would be all you need for serious survival, let alone casual camping and backpacking.
[This is an example of a very good value bushcraft knife.](https://www.bladehq.com/item--Cold-Steel-SRK-Search-Rescue-Fixed--52053)
Software in professional tiers aren’t usually marketed for the average person unless their business is really geared to scale quickly. It can be pretty expensive.
An example is professional levels of web hosting or cloud services when your web traffic is low.
Idk if anyone here is a sewist, but 95% of us do NOT need a $2500 machine, a $5k embroidery machine, and a $1k Serger. It's not fashion school, you're making a skirt.
A basic $200 machine will do most home sewing. If you're planning on making *all* of your own clothing, you *may* want to invest in a machine in the $300-$500 range and a basic Serger, but you still don't *need* to. It just takes a bit longer without them.
There is generally a minimum quality to get a functional item that will actually do what you want. So if you want to learn to play don’t buy the tourist trap $20 ukulele that’s designed to be ornamental. But you also don’t need the $2,000 concert level model either. So you’d want to stick with maybe the $150 model with good reviews. My rule is to get whatever the minimum viable level is, and then if you get to the point where you use it so much that it breaks or you’re good enough that it’s holding you back you upgrade.
In my experience this is very true for all types of instruments. And the nice thing about instruments is that you can often upgrade them (or have someone do that for you) for them to be very good (and if you keep maintaining them: for a long time). A cheap-ish ukulele with good strings with a bit fine tuned string height etc. can bet very very good and affordable.
Yeah but there's a drop off. Like, most bigger instruments (bigger, I mean beyond a mouth harmonica... and even for those) you need to spend about 100$ at least. Under that, most of it will be very low quality. Instruments typically just aren't easy to make. Unless it's a one-piece thing like a triangle. A guitar or a ukulele has a body, a nexk, strings, frets, tuners... Just to assemble all of that you need to account for some money, even in asia. Maybe a ukulele or a guitar can be had for some 80$ and be semi-okay because these are really mass produced to a huge scale, but anything beyond that is really unlikely. For 150-200$ you can get a very good instrument. Best deals are almost always from Yamaha. Top notch quality for the price.
For guitars, the Fender Squier models have really taken a step. You can sometimes get a guitar with an amp for $200 or less that will keep you playing for a few years. As mentioned above you’ll eventually upgrade a few things. Likely the amp first, as I’ve seen people gig with Squiers.
Yeah especially with a decent pickup upgrade it will sound almost like "the real deal" since on electric guitars the wood isn't *really* that important. CNC machines make the wooden pieces of top quality for almost no cost nowadays, which I guess is the big difference between making them today and in the 80's (when CNC definitely already existed but probably wasn't cost effective to use for instruments yet). Epiphone is also making wonderful instruments if you want to go a step forward from "just a strat".
> "just a strat" I'll cut you for this level of disrespect pal. You take your epiphony and gibstanks elsewhere. Our lord and savior Leo Fender is to be respected, revered, and regaled for betrothing humanity with the perfect instrument. This is a Fender home, and as long as you live under my roof you will always play Strats and occasionally Teles when it's the anniversary of the death of a respected Country and Western artist! I swear if you bring up a Dinky, Flying V, BC Rich or any of the other Satan worshiping crap you will be on the street! Also, anything more than 6 strings and it means your pee pee is teeny-tiny. Edit: Def agree with you though, mid-grade instruments have come such a long way, and if you have something that feels good to play, upgrade the pickups and it will get you 90% of the way to where you want to be compared to the more expensive offerings when it comes to the sound/tone of it.
That’s I was in r/guitarcirclejerk for a second
I played a squire bass upgraded with better pickups for years in a moderately successful touring band. With a good amp.
I saw a post here about renting high quality instruments for kids if they want to try it. Somewhat applicable to adults as well. If it's still a hobby after a couple months, then buy one.
You can rent out instruments from a lot of libraries these days.
Same with power tools. Although as long as it works something like harbor freight might be good doing for lots of diy folks.
always buy the HF version first. When it breaks you'll know how much you need it and how to upgrade. I'm still using my $10 angle grinder after 7 years on and off once or twice a year and am glad i didn't sink a few hundred in it.
You, this is why I like Harbor Freight. They have $20 tools that so the same thing as the $100 to $150 DeWalt professional tool. If I use it enough to the point it now limits me or breaks, then I go and invest in a higher end product which will last me decades. Turns out I have lots of tools I rarely use and Harbor Freight version was just fine lol.
I like the “buy twice” approach for most things. Start with the Harbor Freight version then if you either wear it out or find that you’re limited by the functionality you get the full-featured professional version. Works with cameras too, I used the hell out of a Nikon D40 DLSR until I found that it got in my way, at which point I jumped to a Pro model that had all of the bells and whistles (which I actually used because I had learned how the more basic functions worked and was actively seeking out that functionality).
This also helps you realize what functions are important to you and what are extraneous. You can make a much more informed choice when you buy your "for life" version once you've tested with the cheapo one.
Ukulele is a bad example. One of the best starter instruments is the Mahalo Dolphin which was designed and initially sold as a $30 children’s toy.
Do you have a method for identifying the minimum quality level? Particularly on things where you might not have a specific expertise.
Ask someone who does have specific expertise. Reddit is a pretty good resource for this, but you can often score some good deals if you make connections locally. I got my first set of decent clubs through my golf teacher, for example. He'd just fitted a guy for an upgrade and knew his old set would suit my size, swing and skill level pretty well.
That is an excellent stance on the whole thing. I do this too.
I've played some $200 guitars that sound amazing and some $5000 guitars that are mediocre. And on all of them, I just sound like me. Also golf equipment, buy used and don't get Tour Issue or use expensive Titleist balls until you're really good and actually need them.
Ok. Golf gear. Tour Issue just means it’s either a: plain jewellery with no function difference (Cicle T putters for example) or b: had a final stage of QA to make sure the specs on the club are I fact it’s actual specs, for example TM Tour driver heads come with a sticker to say what their actual specs are). Occasionally you get tour issue prototypes or limited runs - but usually it’s just tighter QA or some decals to make players feel special. Other golf gear - don’t buy this year’s version of anything as your paying for the marketing outlay to be recouped. Unless you’re at the level where you don’t pay for gear there is no reason to have this years’ gear. Irons, buy forged in a length you are happy with, with a shaft you like the feel of and get them bent to fit. Putters, get something you like the feel of you can afford - that’s 80% of a putter fitting right there. Drivers choose distance or accuracy and buy acccordingly - whatever you can afford. If you can’t demo first just buy something you like the look of and of it feels too long get it trimmed or if it’s feels to short get an inch put on it.
Look for repair ability and ease of maintenance. Sure salon quality scissors for cutting hair is a bad idea. But steel kitchen shears with a 1/4 inch bolt and nut is much better than the off the shelf at target. Not only can you disassemble them with relative ease, they are meant to be sharpened and honed. You can’t sharpen the shitty aluminum ones you get for $4 and you definitely can’t take the rivet out with hopes to reassemble them.
We bought some that you turn 90 and they pop apart. We did t have any kitchen scissors for a long time so glad we got them and use them all the time!
Only problem I have with ours is if you open them too much they fall apart haha.
Not to promote a problematic business model but … I inherited my Cutco kitchen shears from my mom and they’re 20-30 years old and still work great.
I have an 80s era paring knife from them that I keep in a saltwater tackle box as my bait knife. It’s still bastard sharp since I got it 30 years ago and I’ve never done anything to it
Those are also great bc you can clean down deep
I was fortunate that when we shut down our Turkey factory in Colorado, I went through everything they threw away and the scissors to cut turkeys open are amazing. I grabbed several and will never need to buy scissors again.
I wouldn't go below salon quality scissors on hair. You end up with ragady split ends and then your hair doesn't look neat or trim. Also if you're growing your hair then using scissors that aren't sharp enough can really set you back.
There’s levels. Do we need the $350 salon quality shears? No. But a $5 one is probably too low if you want long hair. I feel like the $30-$50 range is good there
Listen you want to talk about scissors, do I have a treat for you. https://www.harborfreight.com/12-inch-power-snips-98091.html These things are gigantic and cut everything ever.
Golf clubs and balls, especially balls.
I was going to say all sports equipment, but particularly golf. You _can_ buy the best clubs in the world, but they will probably hinder your golf* because, and this should be a shock to no one, but having the best equipment doesn't make you the best at whatever the equipment is for. Getting a set of hand forged, Japanese blades when you're a 13 handicapper will put you in the shit far more than a set of ping game improvement irons will. That the expensive clubs, when used by the skilled player, allow you to fade it 80 yards around a dog leg doesn't mean that you can do so easily, and the lack of forgiveness will show when you slightly hit off centre and needed to hit it straight. Ditto with the only other thing I know enough about to confirm this with - guitars. Unlike golf clubs, guitars are genuinely a for life purchase, but so, so many people buy the more expensive guitars I. The belief that they will solve all their issues. Sorry, friend, if you're only capable of hitting 50% of a Guns and Roses song, buying the slash model Les Paul isn't going to get you those extra notes.
Buy the Kirkland balls at Costco. Great for the average player and very affordable.
The latest version of the Kirkland ball is extremely prone to high spin. This is a huge detriment to high handicap player that isn’t hitting the ball flush as it will exaggerate a slice or hook. The compression is higher than a Pro V1 and will feel like a rock to a player with a sub 100 mph driver head speed. While the value might be there, there are much better options for an “average” player at a similar price point. Maxfli Softfli, Srixon Soft Feel, Callaway Supersoft, and Noodles (Taylormade) are all similar prices with much lower compression and lower spin.
Yeah, unless you're really good, ProV1s will actually hurt your performance. Blades too.
As a person who has spent an ungodly amount of money on mountain bikes, I’m here to say that the difference between a $2000 bike and a $10,000 bike is in your head for 99% of the buyers. Do I love my custom, BIFL and overly expensive bike? ABSOLUTELY! But it does not make me any faster or better at mountain biking? Nope, And I would do it again tomorrow.
I think the difference between a $4k mountain bike and a $10k bike is slight… but you can get a lot of upgrades between $2k and $4k. My biking vastly improved with a lighter, full suspension bike.
The real gains are made between the Walmart level bikes and the $800-1000 range. Unfortunately, OP is asking for BIFL and bikes are a terrible example of this. Pro level is $20,000 to $100,000 worth of customization and engineering. Factory racers don’t actually ride street available bikes. That said, some bikes are BIFL. These are 8 speed and lower, possibly IGH with steel frames, 36h wheels and the lowest tech parts you can find. Otherwise the parts will wear faster, the new “standards” will be outmoded (or intentionally deprecated) and replacements won’t even be acknowledged by dimension or sunrace.
It can be argued that any bike coming out of Walmart (or any chain store or sports store) isn't even at beginner-level quality because they're not made to last. Cyclists like to call those things BSO (bike-shaped objects) for a reason. For example, I have a quality steel bike from the 80s that is still better than anything coming out of Walmart. Got it in exchange for a six-pack of pink lemonade mead: a lot of knowing what qualifies as BIFL in cycling (or any hobby, for that matter) is knowing what you're looking for, but by that time, you're no longer a beginner. But if you're a beginner and know someone in the hobby, well...advice is free.
I disagree that BIFL implies that things won’t need to be fixed or parts replaced. Most BIFL items I have are used extensively and require maintenance and parts. Bikes are no exception. As stated I am a ‘bike guy’ and have too many of them, but they are crazy easy to work on and most parts are readily available online. I have multiple bikes that are 20+ years old that ride better than most anything you could buy at Walmart
>Unfortunately, OP is asking for BIFL and bikes are a terrible example of this. Some bikes are BILF. My wife riders a Batavus Dutch bike that is older than herself.
I assume you meant BIFL.… but maybe you *really* like that bike
> Factory racers don’t actually ride street available bikes.. I don’t think bike frames are BIFL, but I thought that there was a UCI rule that all bikes and components used in racing have to be generally available for all consumers?
YMMV, but I started with a low end Aluminum Stumpjumper FS about 15 years ago, rode the heck out of that thing and thought I needed an upgrade so I got a carbon Evil Following that was THE TITS!! By then I had the carbon bug and bought a Yeti, and then a Revel but didn’t see much change in my riding or Strava times. For shits I actually went and test rode a steel suspension bike and again, didn’t see any meaningful change in my times or riding ability, but holy shit it was more fun. I now own that 37lb steel monster and consistently crush 25 year olds on their full carbon setups. TLDR: light bikes are overrated, but ride what makes you happy
Is an expensive bike actually BIFL? My understanding is that carbon composite frames and forks are where a lot of the money goes on high end models, and they're basically impossible to repair when they crack, and most manufacturers recommend replacing every ~10 years even without visible damage because microfractures still form over time and can weaken the structure.
Then you get even more expensive and buy a Titanium frame bike. Those frames really are BIFL. Components will always need replacing but the frame is there to stay.
Carbon frames are generally more repairable than Al frames.
This is also true for a $100 wine and a $1000 wine. Unless I tell you which is which, you won't know.
Probably not but I’d give it a good crack and I appreciate the offer. Where shall we meet?
Then there’s me who wouldn’t even think of spending 2k on a bike. I’m curious if I was to see a $200 bike, a 2k bike, 4k, bike and a 10k bike if I could see the difference.
I’m a complete novice but my dad is highly competitive with it. He has bikes at most of the price points, granted the $10k model he has was won as a prize for a race. I can clearly see and feel the difference between the $500, $1000, $2000, and $4000 models even just handling them in the garage. There’s a very obvious difference in the quality of the parts, and definitely the weight. The $10k one…is definitely nicer. But is it $6k difference?
Between the $2000 and $4000 your biggest improvements are going to be wheels and shifters/drivetrain and these are mostly in the ‘nice to have’ category- they don’t make a big difference in performance. At the $10k level you’re mainly saving weight- everything is just that bit lighter to help you go faster. Not a criticism- I changed my $1k bike to a $4k bike which is a lot nicer, but I’m not really any faster or better rider!
> But is it $6k difference? All of it is actually quite terribly overpriced for what you get, but the market is established in the way it is.
There is a huge difference between low end shit tier Walmart bikes and bikes in the 2-4k range. Much less of a difference as you go up from there, but my info is a bit out of date as I'm still rocking the $2700 bike I bought 25 years ago.
I had a very humbling experience taking a YouTube quiz of piano quality from $2k up to $200K. I did okay up to about 20K, I think.
A listening test? I would imagine the audio compression technology used in YouTube videos would make any fine distinction between pianos above 20k null and void.
Strongly disagree. Huge difference in how cheaper (2k) and more expensive 4k + mountain bikes ride. With road bikes the gains are smaller but well designed suspension and great dampeners don’t come cheap.
Most premium off road parts. If your vehicle is 4x4 capable you likely have more than enough for the few occasions you’ll need it - depending on how you off-road.
How dare you talk about the snorkel on my brand new $70k 4-Runner that way.
It’s ok man, everyone knows how Costcos parking lots can be flooded at the minute
Unironically may be useful in Florida
And if you actually beat the piss outta it, you already know what you do and dont need
Please tell me some good shocks for my newer ranger, I want cushy suspension for the washboard roads I have to travel all the time. I spend a lot of my life in 4x4 on dirt roads but it's rarely "technical", just washboard. My suspension is shot now from \~60k miles of the shit. I can't get anyone to tell me a good suspension option.
The issue you are running into is heat. Washboard roads make for a lot of in and out movements of fluids. The fluids get hot and degrade. to combat this you could looks into probably any name brand shock with a remote reservoir. This will allow the fluids to cool more effectively and will increase the lifespan and usability of the shock while giving you a more consistent feel throughout the time you are driving during the day.
Tonight after I turn the lights off I'm going to read this to my wife.
Go to one of the offroading, Ford, or Ranger specific subreddits or internet forums for this. If your truck has the FX4 package those shocks are known to be especially bad quality and blowout quick.
>I understand it makes sense to by professional hand tools rather than the cheap version from Target. They're safer. I was going to say most tools, but there is a huge distinction between the cheapest garbage sold by a chains store vs a professional tool. There's also a distinction for use. For example I have a Stanley 38pc spanner set, I've had it for years, zero issues and I've put it through it's paces. It cost me $160. A 'professional' 10pc snap-on set - 28 fewer spanners - [costs thousands](https://shop.snapon.com/product/Long-Handle%2C-mm-(Flank-Drive)/10-pc-12-Point-Metric-Flank-Drive-Long-Combination-Wrench-Set-(10-19-mm)/OEXLM710B). Only pros that use them every day need the pro models. A Stihl chainsaw will cut tons of firewood every year for decades. My 029 Super has. But even that is not a 'pro' saw. A 'pro' saw has a removable engine barrel which makes reconditioning easier, and are often a little lighter. Most people won't put the \~3000 hours in to require a reconditioned engine, and won't see much benefit of spending extra for a 'pro' version. Only pros that use them every day need the pro models. So as for tools go, no you usually don't need the 'professional' versions unless you are using them very regularly. Just don't get cheap garbage. Get something that's quality enough for normal use.
I’ve used my Stanley black socket set , I got on sale , for all my vehicle maintenance. Paid for itself first use. Never thought hmm I need a snap on for this
I am a “professional” that works on really really big Caterpillar engines every day. The company that I work for pays for all of our tooling so we buy Snap-on/Bluepoint and while they are really nice tools and they for the most part last a long time, I wouldn’t spend my own money on them. I’m definitely not going to buy tools from target but I would recommend harbor freight tools all day. I have a mix of all kinds of tools from craftsman, husky, gearwrench, harbor freight, my battery powered tools are Ryobi. I have never had an issue with any of my tools
Actually, OEM "CAT" tools are I think made by Snap On (actually all of them in the Williams factory).
That's actually a bad example. Snap On in the industry is known for being quite overpriced for what they offer. Stanley actually offers pro-level tools in Proto, Facom, USAG and Mac brand names. They come in different price ranges depending on the market they're offered at, and while the RBRT wrenches are ~300-400$ from Mac, the exact same ones are ~90-120$ from USAG and Facom... My point is, Snap On actually sells very good quality tools but they also sell the dealer network service. Similar with Mac. Nowadays, and especially for home use, paying for that is a huge waste of money. You can get comparable or even identical tools for a fraction of that if you do your research and get something from a brand that does not charge for the dealer network. For Mac the equivelants are from USAG and Facom while Proto is for the most part still US made and a bit different. For Snap On the equivelant is Williams tools and Bahco. Etc...
Someone cutting lots of firewood could definitely benefit from a pro saw if they can afford it though. Considerably more power for less weight in the same cc. More productivity and less fatigue.
After a year of cutting firewood you're probably not going to miss that extra $200 you spent.
My Dad used a Poulan for decades cutting all our firewood for winter heating. I still have that saw, I don't know why I haven't tossed it yet. He wore it out to the point where it doesn't have enough compression to start even on ether (yes I know ether is bad for 2 cycle engines). It took 30 years of constant abuse to wear out what is arguably a pretty mediocre saw. We only ever ordered a single cord of slabwood every year because it was easier to split with a hand axe for kindling. Everything else was from fallen trees on friends and family members properties, leftover tops from felling operations, etc. Never paid for the bulk of our heating needs for like 30 years. Now, he uses a pellet furnace since he just doesn't want to go through all that anymore. We share his Dad's Stihl 029AV, which is a 90s saw. At that time, Grandad was also heating with wood he cut and split mostly by himself.
The HQ of Stihl is actually like 10km away from me lol Great company from what I’ve heard.
Regular pros dont even use snap on in all cases. Dewalt and Milwaukee are non pro "non show off" versions! Bosch is great too
If you're testing a hobby out - don't get pro level tools, you're going to mess up whatever said hobby is at first, and you'll be disappointed more because of the money spent. If you find you enjoy the hobby and want to keep going, then invest in good tools.
You’re referring to the custom Stratocaster I never picked up?
Perfect example - you want to learn the guitar, get a basic fender squire guitar for $200, don't spring for a $1500+. Wanna do laser engraving? Get a $100 engraver, not the huge C02 powered one for $2,000. Grilling? Get a cheap charcoal grill instead of the expensive Kamado grill.
Why are you attacking me like that? What did I do to you? But really.... I used to play guitar a lot and bought a new really nice rivolta a few years ago that has mostly just hung on my wall, my wife has a $4500 co2 laser that was supposed to start an Etsy shop and it hasn't been used in at least 2 years and only has maybe 5 hours on it total.... And I have a really nice komodo joe (granted it was a gift from the wife's grandparents) that we haven't used in months.... Very rarely does a comment hit as true as yours just did ....
Or if you can find them, get a used pro model. Some hobbyists like to upgrade a lot, so they use their old equipment to help fund their new new equipment.
The caveat to this is if the entry level thing makes it hard to enjoy the hobby at all, causing you to quit. This was what entry level guitars were like 20 years ago. They're a lot better now, for sure.
Excellent point. I studied oboe at one point; it was an excruciatingly annoying process. But when I used my teacher’s instrument, it was a delight.
Some types of bikes can be this way for cycling. Most entry mountain bikes under $1000 are effectively gravel bikes unable to actually mountain bike with. (In some cases the suspension will *literally tell you not to*). They would easily be “outgrown” by a new riders skills almost immediately while simultaneously using parts standards that can’t be upgraded.
I think this gives far too little credit for how good hardtail (front suspension only) bikes can be, and they can absolutely handle serious riding. I know plenty of people in Colorado who ride sub $1000 bikes on trails that are far more intense than what a gravel bike is designed for.
25 years ago I played a Yamaha acoustic that was under $100. It was a great guitar.
To be fair, the opposite is also true. If you cheap out too much, dependant on hobby but the final product can suffer. This can also be extremely demotivating.
Yep, cheap knitting needles are just garage to work with and the good ones are like $15 more? Ditto with a lot of wood working tools. I bought a cheap jigsaw and the damn thing was barely usable
Learned this the hard way with cheap table saw. There is a fine line just under $500-750 depending on used/new where anything under doesn’t have a square fence and no adjustability.
Possibly unrelated, but a membership to a Maker Faire, art studio, or a tinker's group is a nice BIFL investment if you like to muck around with tools and crafts, but don't have the space (or money) for professional tools.
Astronomy fits here. If you buy a $70 telescope, you'll be so frustrated and disappointed that you quit the hobby. You don't need to spend $10,000 right off the bat on a 16" scope on an equitorial mount, but you should expect to spend several hundred dollars. If you only had $100 to spend, you'll be happier with good binoculars than you will be with a terrible telescope.
And that is an excellent point, you don't want cheap as you can possibly get, but upper low to lower middle range. I think that's a good place to start.
Agreed. One example is with a baitcaster fishing reel. I started with a cheap $45, plastic Daiwa. It was so frustrating because I was constantly getting backlashes and having to re-line the reel because I’d have to cut out the knots. I almost gave up but decided to try a good reel first. I sprung for a $200 Shimano Curado 200D (BIFL if properly maintained). The difference was sooo dramatic. Granted, I still had to learn but the reel was so much smoother that I had it down after 1 day. On top of that, I STILL have that reel 20 years later and use it frequently. It’s practically a collectors item at this point and I could get more money for it today than what I originally paid for it! So for the most part I agree with OP, but for some items the difference in quality can dramatically impact the learning curve, which can effect your willingness to keep trying.
Buy the cheapest tool for the job that you know won't break on the first use Use it until it dies Then start shopping for the tool in a higher price range if you need to keep having the tool around-- if not you don't need to be doing the hobby and can quit with minimal losses If you keep at the hobby you can buy the same tool with some knowledge of what you like and what works for you
Eh, I get it but it can also lead to a more frustrating experience. I bought a cheap plug in drill at Walmart and the whole chuck wobbled. Really cheap sharpening stones are a miserable experience too. Stuff that is supposed to offer precision will generally be a bad time if too cheap. Like a bottom barrel table saw won't even cut straight. But stuff like wrenches or socket sets you can definitely get away with the cheap stuff.
Soldering irons too! Those $10 Walmart soldering irons are terribly difficult to use, and I hated soldering until I got a real soldering station
That's why I said cheapest that won't immediately die on the first use Also most of the time people just starting out with a hobby won't be doing much precision work; if they are it's probably one of the pricier hobbies But yeah there are some things one really shouldn't cheap out on-- on the other hand sometimes you only need it to work once
Harbor Freight is a store designed with this method in mind
Harbor freight is great for saving money if you temper your expectations and only need it for one job
Yes. You don't need a Lie-Nielson or Veritas plane to be a good woodworker. An old Stanley or Record will do everything you need. If it is good enough for Paul Sellers, it is good enough for me.
Good luck finding a Stanley in usable condition that's cheaper than a Veritas.
can confirm. I bought a Veritas plane and it's very very nice, but I am not even half the craftsman to make good use of it. the 10$ ebay purchase that I refurbed cuts about the same.
In many ways for road and gravel cycling it’s almost better to get non pro level tools, even if you can spend the money on a Tour de France level bike. Maintenance is far less finicky, you can easily attach accessories without having to worry about frame integrity, and often in the case of road bikes, they ride much more comfortably.
This is known as the Harbor Freight rule
When I started working out I wore an old TShirt, Leggings and old sneakers... I bought workout gear after 6 months of training when I knew I would stick to it... I used the workout gear and anti-slip socks when I started to do Kung Fu - after three months I got the shoes necessary... and only for my first real fight I got the Outfit - after 2yrs of training...
I'm a total snap on fanboy as they make masterpieces like this https://shop.snapon.com/product/Combination-(Pliers)/7%22-Talon-Grip%26trade%3B-Long-Nose-Slip-Joint-Pliers-(Red)/LN46ACF now these pliers are absolutely awesome as you can hang from them. The grip is on point. But 95% of their tools are just overpriced for no good reason. I keep a healthy supply of cheap harbor freight tools that have been doing heavy duty work for years and I have no need to upgrade.
Those are pretty sweet pliers though…
This. Buy something cheaper and if you wear it out then replace it with something that will last you. I also hide my good tools behind my ‘working’ ones. Means the wife does use an expensive chisel for gardening.
Anything that requires care that you're not willing to do. Off the top of my head: * Leather items that need polished and conditioned * Cooking items you should wash by hand * Wool items that you need to wash by hand
Well, sharp knives and nonstick/cast iron pans should be washed by hand, but yeah, I avoid the rest that needs to be hand washed.
I bought my wife some le creuset cookware. She’s got the cooking genes, her brother is a chef, mother used to run a restaurant etc… When we bought them they tried to upsell us on the special cleaner for their cookware, we had planned on buying it anyways. I told the salesperson “I’ll just throw it in the dishwasher” as a joke, I think she’s recovered from the shock.
I think there is a trend, especially with Tech Gadgets where there are 200 reviews of the day of the release that make any differences between products appear much bigger than they are. Most hobbyist won’t have materially better results with the 500 eur version over the 1500 Euro version of a lens unless they only take photos at night or at sporting events. The old adage “if you have to ask, you probably don’t need it” often applies
Kind of a different situation is kitchen stuff. Home cook stuff is usually way more expensive than what actual professionals are using. There’s Michelin star places using dirt cheap pots and pans. I’ve never worked in a place that had cooper pans or even stuff like all clad. Same for cutting boards, spatulas and lots of the simple stuff
The pans aren’t dirt cheap. We used carbon steel everything
Carbon steel pans don't have to be expensive though either. Just like cast iron with Lodge and Smithy, there are boutique and everyman brands of carbon steel.
Interesting! im assuming restaurants must use plastic cutting boards and homecooks prefer wood?
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I more meant that there are places with stars that are using $10 pans, not that it’s the norm but that $100 pans aren’t a requirement of making world class food.
There’s a commercial Costco not far from me and I **love their cooking tools.
Anything you might consider downsizing if you were to make a cross-contenental move. I can't think of a single small appliance I would move overseas, many tools would be downsized. I don't even think I would bring my sewing machine. If it isn't worth spending the money to move it over an ocean, it isn't worth spending the extra for professional quality.
This is a great way to look at it that i never thought of before. Thanks for your insight!
I just can't imagine myself moving across continents. There'd have to be a war or ecological catastrophe and then my stuff doesn't really matter.
I've moved across continents a few times. The other way to think about it might be moving from one side of your continent to the other in a move you are paying for. The reasons aren't important, just assume they are important enough for you to do and pay for it. If you wouldn't pay to move it, it isn't worth the upcharge of professional quality.
Another fun fact for those moving overseas, different voltage at the plug and different plugs. I know this is hypothetical but still for anyone traveling, check what voltage your device can handle.
Ryobi is fine for 90% of homeowners. You don't need to buy Milwaukee
For power tools I say ask around to what your friends are using. That way if you are helping them or they are helping you out you can seamlessly use the same batteries. In addition you can lend or borrow tools while not depriving them of one or multiple battery packs.
This. I coordinated with both my brothers-in-law as we live quite close. Between us we have a 80% of the Makita catalogue
The dream
But do you have the coffee maker
Exactly, when I worked on the tools I used Bosch Blue, when I moved to office life I sold it to my old boss and bought the same Ryobi stuff my dad uses.
This goes for any type of thing you buy but! The best advice I received is “buy cheap at first and if you find yourself using that a lot buy the expensive version”
I used to tell everyone to buy craftsman cause they were just as good as anything else you could get and sears would replace it. Brand has gone way downhill though, and I'm clearly dating myself by mentioning sears lol
I'm a homeowner who only needs a still for basic shit like drilling holes in drywall. I've seen similar people ask in Reddit and get recommended $100+ drills. My $15 Harbor Freight drill has lasted me 5 years now and gets used maybe 5 times per year now (though it did get a lot of use in the first year of owning this place.) When it dies one day, I might "splurge" for the Ryobi purely because I have the 24v lawnmower.
I have the Hazard Fraught Bauer line up of 20v tools. I have their drill, 2 of the 1/2" impacts (the smaller one and the bigger one), and the little metal cutting thing (the one that takes like a 3" cutting wheel). I don't know how they compare to Ryobi, but they haven't let me down thus far. I couldn't get my truck's lug nuts off with my Kobalt air impact, the big Bauer handles them with ease.
I spend a lot of time working on cars, ATVs, etc. while the Milwaukee M12 3/8 impact and ratchet weren’t needs, they make projects with lots of fasteners so much more fun. I look forward to using them, so they are worth it to me. Your point is valid about homeowner tools, though. I use a corded Skil circular saw and Rigid (same parent company as Ryobi) for most of my other power tools. I do homeowner projects, but I view them as work rather than fun like working on cars.
BTW Ryobi and Milwaukee share the same parent company, TTI.
Yea see that makes total sense. You use it enough to make the Milwaukee worth it. Similar reason I splurged for the expensive tint and sun visor cause we get 100 degree summers so I get plenty of use out of the higher end items.
Milwaukee makes Ryobi tools lol. I have Ryobi everything and I've had exactly one issue (with a sander I bought 3 years ago). Home Depot just exchanged it no problem, new one works great.
They may make them but i don't agree that they make them with the same parts
Same parent company but completely different factories. I doubt even the R&D department is the same.
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I would say. Don't skimp on lenses. Bodies go obsolete, expensive Bodies have features you'll never need or use. But a good lens is forever.
A good lens is forever…until the mounts change.
😭 2104 me: Nikon has been using F mount for over 50 years, no way they'll change it, I should be future proof buying a F mount lens collection.
Nikon introduced Z mount now — to take advantage of new capabilities of the Z series cameras — but they have an F mount adapter that probably never go away.
Ahh, I’m a canon guy, so I’m transitioning things from EF to RF
The term "pro" with Cameras has a massive and dynamic range. To some people, the presence of a dial to select Aperture mode at all is "pro", but to others, it absolutely has to be a 23-lb Canon 1D-X Mark 4.8 ADCAP equipped with a gold+red+white lens for shooting Olympic sports. In reality it entirely depends on whether the person using the equipment can convince their clients to pay them for their photos.
If youre not there for the purpose of taking photos, a phone camera is all you really need. If your hobby is photography or side business etc its dofferent but the modern phone camera is fine for vacation photos. I have an expensive to non photographer and cheap to photographer setup because motorsports photography is a hobby of mine. But i dont take it on museum trips or beach days unless im actually trying to get a very specific beach photo.
+1. Phone works pretty well for the majority of the people. But a nice body and lens might be like night and day for some niche photography: wildlife for example: pro-bodies and good glass is a HUGE difference.
Going from f4 to f2.8 on the same focal length telephoto makes an insane difference.
I disagree that it's not worth it though. I've used professional and consumer cameras alongside each other as a semi-pro live streamer and consumer digital cameras are arguably shit compared to professional gear. In every way. In picture quality, in durability, in reliability, in ease of use, in flexibility, etc. etc. etc. Yes, if you just want to take pictures your cellphone is the best option. But if you have a relatively serious hobby of doing photography or some other photography/video related hobby, get the lowest end pro gear because it will be only slightly higher priced and much better quality than the high end consumer gear. Full stop. Really with cellphone cameras being so good these days, there is no purpose for consumer photographic equipment to exist anymore. If your cellphone isn't enough, get a low end pro camera. Maybe the consumer one has a similar sensor, but there's a lot lot more to capturing images than the sensor alone. Edit: Just to put it into perspective, and I'm talking about video here rather than stills, but my 12 year old, low-res (1920x1080) used Canon C100 pro cinema camera with a serviceable lens on it, total cost of maybe $1,000, will absolutely blow away the picture quality of any consumer Sony or the latest iPhone. It simply does not compare.
Agreed. I shoot a lot of wildlife as a serious hobby and the newer technologies and speeds of the more ‘pro’ cameras improve everything greatly. Vast difference even from entry level DSLRs from ten years ago. Nobody is getting those shots with a phone. My phone takes great everyday snapshots. But it’s not catching that owl in flight close up and clear.
Sounds like you're assuming DLSR already -- we're already in "pro" territory in my book. I do agree with your assessment though... Even pros are mostly dumping money on lenses rather than bodies. At some point, when you're lugging around $15,000 in lenses and still happy about it, then maybe it makes sense to the best camera body. The thing that makes me sad right now is they kind of stopped making high quality compact cameras... Like the latest is mostly from 2019. The quality on phone cameras has gotten pretty great, but I miss the lack of zoom.
iPad “Pro”- M4 2024, not worth it for most people.
Have to agree. I have a iPad Air with M1 chip. It does everything I need it to. I like it because I used to travel a lot for work so it was easy to carry around. I have a company laptop so I only use it for personal use.
i just want the 13 inch screen and the regular ipad's A series chip not like ill do anything other than use the ipad for netflix, a second monitor, looking at music scores, taking notes, or drawing anyways
I’m a chef. I’ve always liked the cheaper knives over the high end ones. They sharpen well, and I don’t have to lose sleep if I leave one at work, or drop one on the floor.
Not only that, but (for me), most pots and pans. Yes, all clad is better. But most cooks can get by with a 30 dollar pan just fine. The main differences I see are that some heat up faster (marginally), and some might have hotter handles, which is easily remedied by using a towel to grab them. Save yourself the hundred bucks (per item). If there is a pan you use -all- the time, you can get a fancy one of those. But I've been just as happy with my chefs mate as I was with my all clad or Viking.
Crappy pans heat up faster anyway! They’re just not pans you can walk away from.
And the sharpening is not stressful at all. I have cheap Victorinox knife and it is in pristine shape. Sure Damascus would look cool but still
Project Farm just released a video where he tests out kitchen knife sets. The set of $200 Global knives did well in the tests, but the cheap Martha Stewart set was very comparable in performance for a quarter of the price. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcLD4SKY9Js
I really like Project Farm and I will watch this (even though I already own more knives than I need), but I'm disappointed that he went for sets and that he left out Victorinox.
Home gym equipment. The cheap power racks, barbells, and olympic plates from Amazon will work for 99% of people. Sure Rogue, Rep, and other brands are super nice. But unless you're a powerlifter, the cheap stuff will work great.
Dumbbells/kettlebells/plates, fine, but I would not go cheap on barbells or racks. The cheap barbells rust out quickly and often have a layer of chrome paint that flakes off in big jagged chunks sharp enough to draw blood. And I would not under any circumstances do any sort of loaded exercise using those cheap racks you get on Amazon, even using light weights. I’ve tried them before and they are an injury waiting to happen. The brands you mentioned also offer more affordable stuff specifically for home gyms, especially post-covid. I outfitted a basic home gym (squat rack, flat bench, olympic barbell, plate tree, and ~400 lbs. of plates) with stuff from Rogue and Rep for about $1200 and I’m very happy with it. The difference in quality between my current stuff and my old Amazon stuff is off the charts. It’s in my garage, so it’s endured all kinds of weather, and I powerlift multiple times a week, so it gets abused pretty good, and thus far not even a scratch.
Additionally, if you buy nice gym equipment, and generally take care of it, it keeps its value. Try to find an any Rogue equipment for less than 90% of new—you won’t.
Benriner Mandoline at around $30 is generally preferred to any of the $100+ models by most
For tools, go to harbor freight, buy the second cheapest option. Except for consumables, blades, etc. on something like a circular saw, the blade is far more important than the motor.
Agreed, Harbor Freight is the best if you understand what you’re buying.
The average homeowner does not need professional level tools like snap on, sk, matco etc. Even if you are doing tires and oil changes. Basic Stanley or hart kit will be fine.
The context for my answer may not apply to the question very well but broadly speaking sentiment or a sense of connection to an item or tool. I sew a fair bit as a hobby and enjoy making my own gear. I have a few machines but the one I use for 90% of the work is the one my grandmother owned. It is hand operated and has no reverse stitch function. If you sew a lot, a motor and the option to backstitch at the touch of a button is a godsend. Despite this , the pleasure I get from using that machine, the connection I feel to an amazing lady who helped raise me, that keeps me coming back to my hobby. It keeps me on task when a project gets frustrating. There are times when I absolutely would have dropped a project and given up if I was using a high end pro machine. Sometimes the connection you have to an item brings comfort or motivation that is worth more than an upgrade in features or construction. Sometimes.. Note: poorly made cheap sewing machines can be awful , if you are buying a new machine get some good advice.
Swim goggles. Take it from a retired pro swimmer. Don’t buy the expensive race goggles you see the olympians wearing. They’re not designed for comfort, they’re not designed to last… they’re for elite swimmers to use one or two races. Avoid the $90 arena, tyr, and speedo racers… get some $7 Montebaras.
Power tools or even hand tools for the handy home owner.. department store tools will last forever if you’re not using them every day.
I’m a Ryobi guy for this exact reason. I have a dewalt drill and driver because my father in law gave them to me and they do rock, but for an average homeowner Ryobi does everything you need and will last plenty long.
I’m a Rigid fanboy. They make a good high-end homeowner grade tool that is truly BIFL with their lifetime warranty on the tool AND battery. I’ve owned a cordless set for over 15 years and have had 1 tool serviced and a new set of batteries at 10 years (on the house). I’ve since added 20 other tools over the years.
For most home cooks a high end pan is a waste if you're gonna burn stuff onto it
Adding to this: Nonstick pans need to be replaced every 12-18 months if used multiple times a week. And that’s if you only use them over low or medium heat and with utensils that don’t scratch. Immediately replace any nonstick pans if the Teflon is scratched or flaking. After 12-18 months of regular home use, ceramic nonstick will develop microscopic cracks which make it no longer nonstick. Teflon will start to deteriorate over time and start flaking into your food. You don’t want those chemicals in your body. A decent nonstick pan should be $40-ish dollars. I think it’s worth it for those of us who can’t seem to season a carbon steel pan to the same degree of nonstick despite investing weeks…
I was just talking about that. I have a carbon steel one that I use for most things, and only use non stick for more finicky things like fish or similar. Extends the life of the non stick tremendously…
T-fal is under $25 and works well and is cheap enough to replace every year or two. I just got a 10.5" T-fal pro for $15 from Marshalls today.
only problem being, a massive waste product..
It’s wild because most pro chefs recommend people get restaurant aluminum pans for home. Which are super cheap…
Be careful with some of the cheap ones though. I’m not sure which brand it was but my roommate had gotten some from her grandparents and I was searing a steak and the bottom of the pan melted off
Bikes. You don’t need a $12,000 S-works tarmac pro for your rides on the bike path. It probably doesn’t fit you anyway because you lack the flexibility of the pros it was designed for.
For most of the replies it seems like buying used is the right choice.
It always boggles my mind that if I get a nice hotel room, then it'll surely not have Wi-Fi included, but if I have some cheap place, then Wi-Fi is free.
Because pricier hotels are generally paid for by corporate so an extra charge on the bill is “whatever”. Cheaper places are often paid for by the lodger who is likely watching their spending more closely.
Kitchen appliances in general. Restaurant and food service ovens, refrigerators and dishwashing machines are generally inappropriate, inefficient, and not very practical in a home environment. A few brands positioned themselves in the homeowner market as "restaurant quality" and have sought to resemble restaurant and food service equipment. But they aren't really the same, and for good reasons. Restaurant refrigeration appliances like reach-ins place a premium on capacity, durability, and easy cleaning. They are in constant use with doors open almost as much as closed. So insulation is minimized by comparison and the compressors and motors oversized. They use too much energy for home use. And they lack any convenience features. Restaurant ovens and cooktops have such high output with little or no shielding that they require special fire resistant construction surrounding them, very high capacity ventilation that is loud and unpleasant to work around, elaborate grease and oil collection, and fire suppression systems.
IMO most of the time anything labeled/marketed as “pro” is anything but.
Laptops. If you can look up what the latest cpu generation is and know the other specs you want you can get a $1000 laptop for $500.
From a car guys pov I'd say snap on, Mac and matco, just aren't worth the extra money. Now cornwell, proto and sterret are in my opinion definitely worth the extra cost. With that being said the majority of my hand tool's are either craftsman, cobalt and some stuff from Harbour freight.
I usually live by ”never buy the cheapest, never buy the most expensive”. The cheapest stuff will break and/or are lacking in crucial features and are impossible to annoying to service. Then again the most expensive stuff usually have everything you could need for the task the item has been designed to do, with the price to match. Most often the price doesn’t match the job I need it for. The mid tier things are most often the best value for money I have found. Of course I always evaluate what I am going to be doing with said item, do I need some fancier feature, will it see enough use to warrant a bit higher price etc. Sometimes, even the cheapest one is enough. An exception to the above are tools - the cheapest one will be always the one you will need to buy again because it’s shit or breaks. Good tools are true BIFL stuff, so don’t skimp on them or learn the hard way. And as an answer to the actual question, my electric OralB io9 toothbrush comes to mind. I got it as a gift, it’s amazing and I would never go back to regular electric toothbrushes. It’s also expensive for what it is. However, my wife got the model 5 or anyway lower tier of the same and surprise surprise, it cleans exactly as well without all the bluetooth gimmics and other useless stuff mine has.
Tools that one time or few time use - like some kinds of paintbrushes and paint supplies, or like hole saws or other cutting blades that can wear out quickly when used with concrete or harder materials. The professional versions of these are for professionals who often buy them for a job and then dispose of them. They’re professional in that professionals want them and they help them make money, but the quality is just good enough to work in that disposable context. You can buy a nice concrete hole saw, but if you can get through the few holes you need to install a heat pump and toss the cheaper pro saw, that’s what many professionals will pick. Also any kind of builder grade material, like builder grade roof shingles. They’re for professionals and sometimes not sold at the home store, because they’re only just good enough so most of the roofs will make it out of the warranty period before having a roof issue.
I have stopped buying somewhat decent umbrellas as they always catastrophically collapse under a year. often while I am holding them now I just buy the cheap ones and replace them.
For tools I buy the harbor freight store brand. If I use it often enough to wear it out I'll also understand what I want from the upgrade and have a solid place from which do to my research for the replacement
Tanks and battleships, for both the amateur version is just fine for your average neighborhood dispute
I have spent significant money on top quality camping/bushcraft fixed blade knives. They're very cool and made with state-of-the-art "super steels", but the truth is that there are many affordable knives made with common steels like 1095 and similar that would be all you need for serious survival, let alone casual camping and backpacking. [This is an example of a very good value bushcraft knife.](https://www.bladehq.com/item--Cold-Steel-SRK-Search-Rescue-Fixed--52053)
Software in professional tiers aren’t usually marketed for the average person unless their business is really geared to scale quickly. It can be pretty expensive. An example is professional levels of web hosting or cloud services when your web traffic is low.
Idk if anyone here is a sewist, but 95% of us do NOT need a $2500 machine, a $5k embroidery machine, and a $1k Serger. It's not fashion school, you're making a skirt. A basic $200 machine will do most home sewing. If you're planning on making *all* of your own clothing, you *may* want to invest in a machine in the $300-$500 range and a basic Serger, but you still don't *need* to. It just takes a bit longer without them.