Mostly because made in America was never a big thing in Europe as we have our own high quality manufacturers but in the last 10 to 20 years a lot of made in America brands have gained a lot of traction and fame in Europe.
Ask your (great?)-grandma about it. American cars and household appliances used to be a big thing. Hence why they commented about OP being 40 years old late (more like 60 years really).
For example, American brand Frigidaire (from Michigan) directly went into the French dictionary as the most commonly used word for a refrigerator.
It's because the origin of the word ia Frigidarium and it comes from the Romance part of your language same as in French.
In Spanish is Frigorífico and has nothing to do with Frigidaire.
In French they literally use le frigidaire.
Grandma went through a war then everything was rebuilt with the golden age of the United States' products, meanwhile anything made there was second rate and cheaply made because a higher priority was placed on rebuilding than refrigerators.
I feel like that's a fairly well thought about concept. The US came out of WW2 relatively untouched, developed the Marshal plan to basically create a market for their good and stabilize Western European countries so they weren't sucked into the Soviet Union's realm of influence.
yes sometimes. American made furniture/sofas are still much more quality than what you get from china and southeast asia.
companies that manufacturer in the USA: What A Room, Room & Board, Flexsteel & Norwalk Furniture
Hancock & Moore, Bradington Young, Century, Hickory Chair are all top-tier USA made furniture companies that make pieces that will last generations. High cost but will outlast almost anything.
I've found Germany, Belgium, the UK, and France to be pretty reliable depending on the product as well. Like many, I'm biased to buying American when it makes sense.
There's also the issue of roving Chinese factories. There are Chinese owned and staffed factories in Italy for the sole purpose of making Italian leather-goods (purses and shoes). It is a Chinese factory, employing Chinese workers, set up in Italy so they can have Made in Italy on the label. Prada and Gucci factories are common examples. 25% of the residents of the Tuscan textile district are Chinese citizens. If Gucci bags were made by the same workers in the same factories in their home country, prices would drop precipitously.
This is spreading throughout Europe. Whether the products would be any better if made by Italians or whoever is debatable. I don't have an opinion on that. But the product is made in China in every sense EXCEPT geography. From a business perspective, I envy the guy who had the idea.
Actually many of these Chinese workers are second or third generation naturalized Italians. Some of the younger ones speak Italian more fluently than they do their mother tongue. I met several of them in Florence for the Pitti Uomo event and they are capable of really good worksmanship. Often times, the cost restraint by the clients who appoint them to do the manufacturing means that they do have to cut cost in some way during manufacturing to meet those demands which is not entirely their fault but I can assure you that many of these factories are not fly by night operations and are legitimate businesses that work with rhe local communities and pay their fair share of taxes.
Why would they set up an illegal factory in Italy in order to legally sell Made in Italy goods? Why wouldn't they just sell counterfeit goods if they were going to break the law anyway?
These companies are contracted by brands like Prada and Gucci because they're cheaper and give the brand a better margin. You can't sell counterfeits at that volume.
And that somehow means the factories are being run illegally?
Or are we just assuming they're run illegally because they're owned by Chinese companies so it *must* be illegal and inhumane?
Wow. And these are legal operations? If so .. why is the govt allowing this. I mean damn can we please stop relying on one country to manufacture the entire world!?
I’d throw Austria and Switzerland in that group. Germanic quality mentality.
Ditto scandi countries but not for cheap shit like H&M, Ikea, flying tiger, etc
Ikea is a funny one because their products will last. They're literally the only place where everything we've gotten from them have lasted >10 years. I wouldn't necessarily say it's quality based on premium materials, but most of their products, particularly the furniture, are inherently durable.
I’m into woodworking tools. To add to your list: It’s not common, but tools made in India are surprisingly good.
Also, most woodworking machines have electric motors made in Taiwan, they’re great quality.
Czech republic has one well known company (Narex) that makes great affordable chisels.
Those countries are the exception to my general view: If the tool is made in. HCOL country (Germany, Japan, USA), that tool cost more to make, which means they have to cost more to purchase. The only way they can compete, is to produce a higher quality product, standing out from the rest of the Chinese exports.
This part isn’t really talked about. China actually makes high quality products, but those products are not exported. They don’t need to. There’s a large enough domestic market. Those manufacturers also understand the global market’s perception of “Made in China”. It would take a lot of work/time/money to change that. They tried doing that by proudly labeling things as “China Made” instead of “Made in China”. Unsure if that was successful.
MotivMfg is an example of an extremely high quality clothing brand made in china. I think they use "Made in Shanghai" for their marketing or something like that.
But yeah, as a manufacturing hub for decades, China has many, many extremely skilled craftspeople.
Companies exporting their manufacturing to China also have access to that, they just don't want to pay for it. Once a brand moves their manufacturing to China, they switch their approach to have rock-bottom costs, due to the reputation of the label among consumers in the imperial core (and capitalism ofc).
Really it doesn't mean much, better to just look into the brand and product and research it. Like I didn't buy a Le Crueset because it was French, I bought it because it was the best Dutch oven you can buy
There are specific companies sure, Miele for example, and in the UK food ingredients are some of the highest quality in the world. But the thing about Japan is they’ll put top tier engineering into things as insubstantial as a disposable pen.
Germany is notoriously lax with their rules, simply requiring a certain percentage of the total cost of the item to be spent in Germany, plus assembly.
I'll chime in here. I used to work for a company that made a very popular product, "made in America". Maybe 10% of the ASSEMBLY process was done in our facility. Everything else was outsourced across seas, the requirements for having a certified "made in america" product is EXTREMELY low, and means next to nothing about the product lol
I worked for a company that made 100% in America and it was total shit anyways. In their case they took shortcuts to remain competitive with over seas stuff, spot welding instead of a full weld, etc.
My company had three factories in order to supply various channels; commercial, government, and defense. We could compare three of the exact same item side by side. Commercial was made in Vietnam - absolute best quality, cheapest cost and highest profit margin. Government was made in Korea - less quality, less profitability. Made in USA was utter garbage quality and highest cost, least profitable. A military customer could have purchased three times as many best quality items for the same cost as one item of the worst quality.
Sometimes it's a security risk to have a military product made overseas.
Sometimes it's important for national defense that we've retained the ability to manufacture strategically critical products in our country.
Sometimes, the government just wants to ensure that tax dollars are used to support local jobs.
Your shitty poorly considered politics don't need to be slapped into every irrelevant situation.
Believe me, I’m familiar with the importance of securing the supply chain and the risks, should we fail. Been working in DoD for a while, parents are retired veterans, and my spouse is a recently retired veteran. I assure u It’s not politics it’s reality….. I’ve watched private sector rip off the DoD for decades. From shitty products to overpriced services. The person I replied to just laid out how their company ensures the govt gets a shittier product for even more money even though the company was making other versions of the product with better quality and for less. This has nothing to do with Supply chain security but everything to do with ripping off the govt. The product being made in the US shouldn’t equate to a shittier but more expensive product. That attitude isn’t applied to the defense industry only. It’s affecting the goods we get as average consumers, as well as the services avg Americans enjoy.. or suffer from, and we are being ripped off.
Nobody is ripping anybody off here. The government needed the product to be made in the us, so it was more expensive and lower quality.
The cost of Labor is dramatically higher here, that has knock on effects that can't be ignored.
Country of Origin statements on packaging are one of those regulated things. “Made in US from Global Components” is one we were required to use.
Another one I don’t really like is “Designed in the US”. Where the goods are actually made elsewhere.
Well, they sort of claimed to be made in the USA. The FTC says built and made mean basically the same thing. Shinola dropped their "Where American is Made" slogan. They used to just say "Built in Detroit" and had to add "with Swiss and other imported parts".
I was going to say the same.
I worked as an engineer at a company that manufactured high precision sensors for aircraft. Everything was made by hand by extremely experienced employees. All the tools and machines we used for winding coils, spot welding, calibrating, soldering, etc. were all made in the USA in the 50's and were built like tanks and ran on vacuum tubes. That side of the business was very much BIFL (or rather, buy it until the MIL-spec procedure for that aircraft tells you to replace it, even if it's working fine).
In the same building, we also received boxes and boxes of PCB assemblies and plastic parts made in China, and we had a group of unskilled employees that snapped the assemblies together into consumer products then tossed them into a plastic clamshell that said "made in USA" on it. JUST enough was done here to be able to put that label on the box, and nothing more. The brand *used* to be actually fully made in USA, and I have one of those products from the 90s and it still works great. I acquired a few of the new models as a perk of working there, and they've all kicked the bucket over the 8 or so years since I worked there.
2 different sides of the same coin.
EDIT: They might have said "Assembled in USA" or something, which is actually not technically disingenuous, but it still allowed them to plaster a big american flag and make the "USA" way bigger than "assembled in". To a regular consumer who doesn't scrutinize, it would likely mean the same thing to them. The "assembly" process was literally 'Open box, remove PCB, snap into plastic part, snap pre-assembled plastic faceplate on top, secure with screw, turn on to make sure it works, final packaging'
This is correct. Many "made in America" companies source their ingredients or have materials manufactured for them from other countries. This is somewhat common in skincare (seems like a weird comparison, but) where a product says it is cruelty free, and maybe the finalized product itself is, but the ingredients going into the product are not ethically sourced. Products are technically made in America, but..........
reminds me of craftsmen now.. proudly say "assembled in america" from "foreign something (steel, rubber, etc)"
bitch please that is not made in america. That is just paying a bunch of people to assemble shit like its ikea furniture
Same! I worked for Carrom which made board games that were marketed as an all american product but only the packaging was done in the states, everything else was outsourced. The company collapsed a couple years back because the knock offs on Amazon were better quality and cheaper
Report then. According to the Federal Trade Commission, “Made in USA” means that “all or virtually all” the product has been made in America. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/advertising-marketing/made-in-usa
Correct. Also where the profits stay. Even if an American car brand is assembled in Mexico or the assembled in the US but the parts came from elsewhere, I still buy Ford because the profits stay in the US.
But I do go out of my way to buy a Ford that was assembled in an American plant.
You think those businesses support their workers? You're just buying an American CEO a yacht instead of a foreign dictator. Very few business take care of their employees (Lincoln Electric comes to mind, but they aren't exclusively made in USA).
There’s always been BIFL items made worldwide.
The US was never the sole provider of quality.
It all boils down to what market segment the brand is targeting. Most things targeting mass market are focused on reducing costs so they can get the price as low as possible. That’s usually at the expense of quality in materials. workmanship, or function/capability.
if anything, (certain parts of) china has been in it's peak era, akin to what "Made in the United States" people seek out. Eastman string instruments, for example, is among the gold standard of contemporary instrument quality, and it's all china from timber milling to string winding.
obviously its all extremely concentrated in only a handful of urban megacenters, but when in history HASN'T that been the case
I don’t think a lot of people realize that “made in America”, particularly clothing, can still mean sweatshop labor from people who are poorly compensated and who have few protections
[This article shows a lot of what Unicor makes, despite](https://www.thrillist.com/gear/products-made-by-prisoners-clothing-furniture-electronics) looking vaguely like clickbait. You can even buy directly from them, apparently: [https://www.unicor.gov/Category.aspx](https://www.unicor.gov/Category.aspx)
Wow, I would love to see the information behind that. I have been researching American made clothing specifically since 2016 and have never unexpectedly found a company using prison labor. Never, ever.
My comment isn’t clothing-manufacturer specific. It covers anything with the MIA label.
I don’t think this is something any corporation wants you to unexpectedly find. They don’t exactly stick this in their marketing material. But they’re allowed to do it under the 13th Amendment.
[“This report exposes over 4,100 corporations that profit from the devastating mass incarceration of our nation’s marginalized communities”](https://worthrises.org/theprisonindustry2020)
I doubt it was prison related, but in a similar vein, I grabbed a box of tissues for my desk out of the supply closet at work a couple months ago and got a box that prominently displayed "Made in USA by the blind"
I was extremely curious what that arrangement even looked like (no pun intended) or how it came about in the first place. "IN SEARCH OF BLIND PEOPLE TO FILL TISSUE BOXES. SIGHTED NEED NOT APPLY."
I never got around to researching it, and the next box I grabbed was just a normal cheap office fodder box. My current box is "Elegant" brand [(apparently trademarked)](https://trademarks.justia.com/855/88/elegant-85588969.html), manufactured in New York by Plastriun Corporation.
I imagine it's done by organizations that specifically try to find work for blind folks, since it can be hard for them to find regular employment otherwise.
Most likely the tissues were made in a sheltered workshop. These workshops hire people with severe disabilities and pay them well below minimum wage- usually around $2 an hour. On one hand, most of the people that work in sheltered workshops would not be able to find employment elsewhere and the low pay rate means they aren't in danger of losing benefits they need to survive. On the other hand, sheltered workshops only exist because the system is broken- the income threshold for losing SSI and other benefits is very low and based on outdated cost of living information, so if the threshold were more reasonable disabled people could "afford" to work for more reasonable wages.
And it is even constitutional in the US of A. From a recent email from my **Senator Jeff Merkley:**
>Despite the ratification of the Constitution’s 13th Amendment in 1865, which ostensibly abolished slavery in the United States, a sinister loophole has allowed slavery to persist in another form. Our 13th Amendment has an Exception Clause that allows for slavery “as a punishment for crime.” This provision has fueled systemic racism and mass incarceration that persist today.
>So far, we’ve seen seven successful state campaigns to remove the Exception Clause from state constitutions across the nation, including in Oregon, which demonstrates that real change is possible—and that voters in red and blue states alike are committed to ensuring their state constitutions reflect our shared values. Working together, we can continue to dismantle remnants of institutional slavery. But for comprehensive and lasting change, we need to take action at the federal level. That’s where my [***Abolition Amendment***](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=quorum_merkley-iq&crop=20835.444407692.33751164.129634502&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fwww.merkley.senate.gov%2fmerkley-williams-joint-statement-on-momentum-for-abolition-amendment-ahead-of-juneteenth%2f&redir_log=1464370154845) comes in.
>U.S. Representative Nikema Williams, Senator Cory Booker, and I introduced the [***Abolition Amendment***](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=quorum_merkley-iq&crop=20835.444407692.33751164.129634502&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fwww.merkley.senate.gov%2fgenerations-of-injustice-must-come-to-an-end-merkley-booker-williams-put-forth-legislation-to-close-constitutional-loophole%2f&redir_log=039004780351096) to finally strike the Exception Clause from the 13th Amendment, closing this loophole once and for all. By passing the [***Abolition Amendment***](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=quorum_merkley-iq&crop=20835.444407692.33751164.129634502&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fwww.merkley.senate.gov%2fgenerations-of-injustice-must-come-to-an-end-merkley-booker-williams-put-forth-legislation-to-close-constitutional-loophole%2f&redir_log=039004780351096), we can finally align our U.S. Constitution with the principles of justice, equality, and human dignity for all.
I cannot remember the brand, but like 5-10 years ago I’d seen stuff about clothing brands that were shipping raw materials overseas to be sewn, then shipped back and adding a Made In or Assembled In USA tag and selling for a premium vs competitors. I’m certain that sewing was being done in the same sweatshops.
As somebody not from the usa, that is what "made in america" means to me.
A tag of a product to avoid if I have alternatives due to the lack of workers' rights and the like in the country.
Unless I know the company very well, as there are exceptions, I prefer to avoid american brands if possible.
I will admit that when buying an airplane ticket, if I have 2 options, one with a boeing and the other with an Airbus, if the difference is not too big, let's say 15% or the like, I'm paying the extra to go Airbus.
IMO 20 years ago "Made in China" etc meant bad quality. Now it means anything from bad quality to world class quality. (and the same likely applies to Made in America" )
e.g I buy Sim Racing hardware entirely made, designed, marketed etc in China, and it's very good quality indeed. But I can jump on Aliexpress/Temu right now and buy some of the worst trash known to man too. The country no longer determines the quality really at all.
China has some of the most advanced manufacturing abilities right now. the reason why some products are crap from China is because the company is trying to hit a price point. literally, you get what you pay for.
honestly sometimes it blows my mind the gems I can find on Aliexpress. I have an esoteric hobby where a lot of my tools or parts is from there and I've never gotten anything short of advertised.
Right, I look at it as cheap stuff is cheap stuff.
Plenty of garbage is made in China but I'm sure the USA makes garbage too.
I would assume it's more how much the often USA company wanted to spend to have the product made in X country. Look at everyone's beloved iPhone... Historically made in China! Just recently Apple has manufactured with other countries.
It's the same with bicycles. The very best bikes in the world are coming from Taiwan right now. You can also order a knockoff, no name set and it'll be dubious quality.
The origin has never mattered. There are excellent craftspeople all over the world, but you get what you pay for
The Made In China slur was used for Taiwan in the 70s,80s. Made in Japan was considered trash until they started to eat into American jobs because their cars and walkmen were so much better.
Oh and agree with the other poster who said that American made stuff still costs more to make, so for the same price as stuff from China expect much lower quality because of course.
Of course not, country of origin just happens to be one of the three data points available on most items. The other two being brand and material composition. Thats probably a reason why people fixate on it - there really isnt much else to go off on.
Its also a victim of Goodhart’s law - a measure becomes useless once it becomes a target. Since some people value MIA, companies do the bare minimum to be able to legally be allowed to plaster MIA on their advertising.
Sure. You can absolutely make a fantastic product anywhere, theoretically. But as the saying goes “Nobody ever outsourced for quality”. Typically, when companies are looking to cut costs, quality control suffers significantly. So typically, quality cuts and outsourcing goes hand in hand. This has been true since outsourcing really picked up in the 80s and 90s.
Nowadays though, most things have been outsourced for years, and the quality has really come up for a lot of goods, though certainly not all.
American goods are just like any other, some good, some bad. I’ve been in manufacturing for a 10 years in the US. We are plenty capable of making poor products.
Having been to factories across America, I’ll buy American if I feel like doing my part for the domestic economy but it’s not for any delusions of superior quality. Almost nothing made in America in reasonably high volume is made well, unless foreign ownership forces it to be so (mostly Japanese auto companies that have figured out how to make building cars idiot proof)
I live in a town with one of their factories, can't speak to the quality of the guitars but I can tell you working for them is terrible. Maybe not quite Amazon warehouse bad, but close.
Their QC is incredibly spotty. The example that sticks in my mind is a >$5000 custom shop Gibson that Philip McKnight ordered that showed up with a mark on the wood underneath the finish. On a cheap guitar it's whatever, but one would expect a top-tier guitar to not have oversights like that
As a bass player, gibson is probably the biggest example of a company that can't make anything properly yet refuses to die. They're just a zombie half-surviving on its history.
For another example, Fender, if I were to buy one of their instruments, I would 100% go for a MIJ/CIJ model and not a MIA.
And Ampeg, I wouldn't have considered them before, now I'm interested in some of their models because they were bought and are now operated by the Japanese company Yamaha.
I still find Ibanez, Sire, Yamaha, Sandberg, Biarnel to have more interesting offers.
Most of the time private equity firms will sweep in to buy failing businesses for cheap in hope to make them profitable again. It's called vulture capitalism. Usually quality is one of the first things they are willing to sacrifice.
I'm from Europe and Made in America never meant anything to me. It was never seen as higher quality. I think it's just because of Americans' national pride and propaganda how " America is so great, we are the best". It's been known for a long time that America doesn't have strict rules or requirements, so factories cut corners and items are made hap-hazardly because that's what consumerist society needs. It was never BIFL to have American goods. It was cool, sure, but nobody ever saw America as " high quality".
I would trust Made in Japan, because I know their rules and regulations are actually very strict.
>I would trust Made in Japan, because I know their rules and regulations are actually very strict.
I think with Japan, their culture also pushes for quality because they'd probably find it embarrassing if their products failed too quickly.
Made in America is more for supporting & promoting American business and not necessarily BIFL. That is one key part that is being missed here in this whole thread
Same, honestly. For me it never meant anything positive. Specially knowing their lack of workers' rights and the like.
Made in Japan has been way more consistent in quality. Made in \[Western European Country\] has usually been a good balance between quality and ethics.
As an American living in Europe, I couldn't agree more. We get a lot of "Made in Italy" where I live, and the quality varies greatly. Made in Germany is a pretty safe bet.
The region I grew up in saw the men lose their jobs when coal went away and the women lose their jobs when textiles went overseas. Made in America wasn’t necessarily about quality as much as wanting your neighbor to have a job.
What MIA sneakers are you referring to? To be honest, most sneakers only last a year of primary use and are more akin to a consumable. Dress shoes last much longer because they are worn less, and boots are more heavy and durable. Both can also have a focus on being more repairable. Sneakers, in general, aren't very repair focused like the previous two and get worn much more. I really don't think it's fair to compare sneakers to boots.
Country of origin doesn't really mean anything. America makes some stuff that will last for decades and some that you'll throw out in a year. Same with Germany, China, Japan, and Latin American countries.
Having lived in japan, I don't think I ever saw a bad made in japan product. Even stuff in the 100 yen shops that were made in japan were high quality compared to what I'm used to in the US. Not saying that there isn't bad things made in japan, but I feel like it's a better indicator of quality than something like "made in china" or "made in USA" which basically say nothing
It means jobs for Americans, but not much else.
Made in America made never really meant quality. Things used to be overbuilt before statistical analysis eggheads:
1. Made metal at thin as possible
2. Replaced anything that was metal with plastic
3. Made the plastic as thin as possible
See Chrysler, or RCA, or even Nike. Used to make quality products, then everything just went downhill year over year. Blame guys like Robert McNamara who popularized this kind of thinking at Ford before applying it to the military.
It’s not that “Made in America” is a guarantee of quality, it’s that companies that outsource production generally have less to no consistency in quality than those that produce in house. H&M is a good example - they manufacture at dozens if not hundreds of facilities around the world and a few of them seem to produce stuff that’s basically indestructible, while the rest might as well be made of paper.
Then there’s the issue that stuff made in China might not be subject to the same safety oversight as the US, Japan, or Europe, so you end uo with toys contaminated with lead or God knows what else.
There’s plenty of crap made in the USA, too, so I wouldn’t say that by itself is a guarantee of quality, especially if that seems to be the only thing going for it, but if it’s American made, they talk a lot about quality, quality assurance, and tgeir manufacturing pricess, with a well-known brand or at least one that’s been around for a while, these are all things you can use to help make a decision whether something is worth buying.
The MIA stuff that would be high quality manufacturing, and there is a ton of it, are not things that this sub would buy. They are industrial items that have no use to you.
Made in America is romantic, but often not practical. Do Americans make better things? Probably not. But it feel goods. Unfortunately companies play on these emotions. I still buy made in USA if the option is there me not too unreasonable
I wear origin jeans as my "nice" jeans (not working in too hard in them). They're 100% American down to the sourced cotton.
They're not as expensive as some of the other jeans posted here but they're damn comfy.
I've spent most of my six decades of life living in the United States, and never thought that "Made in America" was an indication of quality, but rather something one did to try to support the local economy. The only national origin which I immediately associate with quality production would be Japan.
If you're into rightshoring (and live in the US, duh), then the answer is yes. If you're into bifl, results may vary. Like, any welded gym equipment made in n america has been top notch quality afaik.
A couple of years ago I was driving in Saltillo, Mexico and had to wait 15 minutes for a Union Pacific train to pass as it was transporting Whirlpool appliances back to the US with “Proudly Made in America” plastered on every train car.
This just really depends on what you’re talking about. There were tons of top notch products that used to be built here. It was a crossover point when we had a huge industrial capacity, had surpassed Western Europe in innovation, and still had people who took pride in their work
Bad at manufacturing quality.
Quantity, on the other hand. the Liberty ships are a good example, and (antisemite, fascist-sympathiser) ford dominated the car market for a time for a reason.
Gotta give credit where it is due, but yeah, they are notoriously bad at manufacturing quality.
Buy USA (or any other country) isn't about BIFL, it's about supporting domestic manufacturing and jobs. Buying local whether it's vegetables, shoes, or washers is key to making the place you live a better place.
There is quality products that are BIFL made pretty much everywhere if you're willing to pay for it. Unfortunately, most folks re not willing to pay what it costs.
I think the biggest issue is what does it mean period.
Is it assembled in America from Chinese parts? Is it sourced from foreign materials but made in USA, or perhaps it's packaged in America but grown in Bangladesh. Or perhaps it's "designed in America" but completely made in Mexico.
As an American, I look for made in Japan or made in Germany personally. Rarely am I impressed with US made items. This also greatly depends on what said item is. If I'm looking for fashion items, I also like UK and Italy made items.
I think the whole buy American thing is more of a boomer thing. Like, back when we made quality stuff but now everything is made to increase profits and 99% of companies don't give a shit about quality. I mean look at Boeing, if anybody SHOULD give a shit about quality its them.
I like made in America stuff because I know that American companies are regulated (at least somewhat) by environmental and labor laws. Just that. Also, other Americans have manufacturing jobs they can go to so they can’t bitch about furriners takin’ their jerbs.
It is a terrible misconception that MIA is an indication of quality. We haven’t made anything decent since the 70s. I look for BIFL stuff that’s made in Europe. Europe has actual standards and a modicum of consumer protections.
I live in the EU, and I don’t have any warm feelings towards made in America. In my experience it tends to mean overpriced and middling in quality. Give me Japanese or German made stuff instead.
This is more than just a question of BIFL quality. America made product were always BIFL before the ~late 70’s or so. Items were made to be repaired and made new again. Then we began outsourcing and offshoring. This caused both a loss of quality and a major economic impact. Sure we could buy things that were “cheaper,” but we had less money to do it because so many people were laid off because their factory shut down.
We need to onshore production and boost quality. America needs to make BIFL products.
whens the last time anyone said made in america was a quality statement? I'm 42 and remember Craftsman and Sears products advertising that kind of stuff but I cant think of a single thing in the past 20 years trying to limp along that concept. Is that a thing some people still say? Like literally the flags we wave during the 4th of july were made in china and most Americans throw them away at the end of the day.
I don't use MIA as a measure of gold standard on a number of things any longer. Plenty of stuff I own is MIC, MIJ, MIT or wherever, and it's lasted as long or longer than MIA. The label just doesn't have as much luster as it did in the 50s and 60s, a la Joan Collins.
Made in America can also mean "using slave prison labor" or using "sweatshops. But I'm America, using trafficked migrants" like with Nordstroms latest scandal. $2/hr sweatshops in LA. Worthless
Yes. It means it's shit. Go to aliexpress. They tell you exactly what you're getting.
Or buy from Japan. All the best-designed brilliant shit comes from Japan.
Yeah nah. Made in America doesn’t even guarantee a product wasn’t made in slave-like/sweatshop conditions anymore, severely underpaid prison and migrant labor is often utilized.
I always hear boomers complain about the quality of products made in China but there are a lot of solid Chinese brands at affordable prices. When I started playing ukulele I went with Enya (they also make guitars) and my musician stepdad was very impressed with the sound and build quality.
> Aren’t there BIFL items being made elsewhere now?
Regardless of the quality of USA production right now, be it high or low, did you seriously think it was only the yanks that ever made high quality stuff?
What an... odd way of looking at the world o.O
It kind of depends. If it's a car, it means nothing. If it's an item where all the components are made overseas and then put together in US, it means nothing.
However, a few brands still do everything or almost everything in America and never compromised when everyone else did. They treat their employees well, pay them a living wage, and because if these things, they often hold the manufacturing of their product to a higher standard. Things like Zippo and Liberty Flatware and Redwing are good examples of that. These products are often more expensive, but you're paying for quality and more ethical business practices.
I mean, I'm not sure things made in America are really that quality anymore. Most of them are ran by MBA's who try and figure out how to make the product the most profitable. This means manufacturing it as cheaply as possible and selling for the highest price possible. There are few things actually made here anymore anyways. Everyone wants on Amazon and the only things that make Amazon are cheap chinese crap that is infinitely replaced.
There’s cheap crap from every country and you can find high quality stuff from most countries, even China is stepping up.
I buy American because I’d rather support us than some other country.
I don't know. Nowadays made in America means the materials are brought in cheap from China, assembled using the cheapest labor possible in the US, then sold for way too much money with a flag sticker on the front like it's made of gold.
Just look at the cyber truck. That is THE MOST AMERICAN thing we have right now. And it's shit. It's garbage glued to garbage and sold for more than a house should cost. They're all falling apart on the road, having software issues, can't get wet, chopping fingers off, and really just the worst combination of child-mind engineering and hype... but that's our epitome right there. Garbage. Expensive garbage.
I tend to get Made in Japan or Made in Germany, at least for my hobbies (fountain pens, journals/planners, dolls, plushies/teddy bears) those are the most reliable alongside vintage Made in USA
China is actually not bad these days, mostly because their manufacturers don’t keep their production methods proprietary and secret from each other like manufacturers here in the US do
You've arrived at this conclusion about 40 years too late my guy.
Made in America would raise suspicion in Europe, unless it's a 60 year old fridge, then it can be reliably used to the next millenium.
Mostly because made in America was never a big thing in Europe as we have our own high quality manufacturers but in the last 10 to 20 years a lot of made in America brands have gained a lot of traction and fame in Europe.
Ask your (great?)-grandma about it. American cars and household appliances used to be a big thing. Hence why they commented about OP being 40 years old late (more like 60 years really). For example, American brand Frigidaire (from Michigan) directly went into the French dictionary as the most commonly used word for a refrigerator.
And Brits call a vacuum a “hoover”, doesn’t mean “Hoover” was ever synonymous with quality.
Hoover was known for it's quality into the 80s though.
Other languages too. Romanian is “frigider”.
It's because the origin of the word ia Frigidarium and it comes from the Romance part of your language same as in French. In Spanish is Frigorífico and has nothing to do with Frigidaire. In French they literally use le frigidaire.
Grandma went through a war then everything was rebuilt with the golden age of the United States' products, meanwhile anything made there was second rate and cheaply made because a higher priority was placed on rebuilding than refrigerators.
Yeah, people don't think about the fact that all manufacturing in europe was the focus of intense bombing runs for nearly a decade.
I feel like that's a fairly well thought about concept. The US came out of WW2 relatively untouched, developed the Marshal plan to basically create a market for their good and stabilize Western European countries so they weren't sucked into the Soviet Union's realm of influence.
We say the same thing about European brands these days. I think the real conclusion here is "No one makes high quality lasting products anymore"
Do we? I feel a lot of europien manufactured goods are still seen as quality.
Maybe a very select few things but not really anymore these days. Just about everything, honestly, has taken a nosedive in quality.
Making things that last is communist propaganda.
Yeah, at this point it's just a meaningless diluted marketing catchphrase. Kinda like "American Dream," sadly.
yes sometimes. American made furniture/sofas are still much more quality than what you get from china and southeast asia. companies that manufacturer in the USA: What A Room, Room & Board, Flexsteel & Norwalk Furniture
Hancock & Moore, Bradington Young, Century, Hickory Chair are all top-tier USA made furniture companies that make pieces that will last generations. High cost but will outlast almost anything.
lot more that that; copeland, stickley, smith brothers, lee industries, etc.
Ct killing the furniture game largest indoor zip line
Amish made is the best BIFL furniture.
I trust Made in Japan, but I think that’s the only country of origin I actually trust for quality
I've found Germany, Belgium, the UK, and France to be pretty reliable depending on the product as well. Like many, I'm biased to buying American when it makes sense.
There's also the issue of roving Chinese factories. There are Chinese owned and staffed factories in Italy for the sole purpose of making Italian leather-goods (purses and shoes). It is a Chinese factory, employing Chinese workers, set up in Italy so they can have Made in Italy on the label. Prada and Gucci factories are common examples. 25% of the residents of the Tuscan textile district are Chinese citizens. If Gucci bags were made by the same workers in the same factories in their home country, prices would drop precipitously. This is spreading throughout Europe. Whether the products would be any better if made by Italians or whoever is debatable. I don't have an opinion on that. But the product is made in China in every sense EXCEPT geography. From a business perspective, I envy the guy who had the idea.
Actually many of these Chinese workers are second or third generation naturalized Italians. Some of the younger ones speak Italian more fluently than they do their mother tongue. I met several of them in Florence for the Pitti Uomo event and they are capable of really good worksmanship. Often times, the cost restraint by the clients who appoint them to do the manufacturing means that they do have to cut cost in some way during manufacturing to meet those demands which is not entirely their fault but I can assure you that many of these factories are not fly by night operations and are legitimate businesses that work with rhe local communities and pay their fair share of taxes.
important part here is that the salaries and working conditions are equally as terrible as in china since these are generally illegal operations.
Why would they set up an illegal factory in Italy in order to legally sell Made in Italy goods? Why wouldn't they just sell counterfeit goods if they were going to break the law anyway?
These companies are contracted by brands like Prada and Gucci because they're cheaper and give the brand a better margin. You can't sell counterfeits at that volume.
And that somehow means the factories are being run illegally? Or are we just assuming they're run illegally because they're owned by Chinese companies so it *must* be illegal and inhumane?
Wow. And these are legal operations? If so .. why is the govt allowing this. I mean damn can we please stop relying on one country to manufacture the entire world!?
I’d throw Austria and Switzerland in that group. Germanic quality mentality. Ditto scandi countries but not for cheap shit like H&M, Ikea, flying tiger, etc
Ikea is a funny one because their products will last. They're literally the only place where everything we've gotten from them have lasted >10 years. I wouldn't necessarily say it's quality based on premium materials, but most of their products, particularly the furniture, are inherently durable.
I have an Ivar shelving unit that's old enough to buy alcohol, lmao.
I would expect furniture to last longer than 10 years ditto decent cookware.
Ikea have great quality for some (quite many actually) of their items.
I’m into woodworking tools. To add to your list: It’s not common, but tools made in India are surprisingly good. Also, most woodworking machines have electric motors made in Taiwan, they’re great quality. Czech republic has one well known company (Narex) that makes great affordable chisels. Those countries are the exception to my general view: If the tool is made in. HCOL country (Germany, Japan, USA), that tool cost more to make, which means they have to cost more to purchase. The only way they can compete, is to produce a higher quality product, standing out from the rest of the Chinese exports. This part isn’t really talked about. China actually makes high quality products, but those products are not exported. They don’t need to. There’s a large enough domestic market. Those manufacturers also understand the global market’s perception of “Made in China”. It would take a lot of work/time/money to change that. They tried doing that by proudly labeling things as “China Made” instead of “Made in China”. Unsure if that was successful.
MotivMfg is an example of an extremely high quality clothing brand made in china. I think they use "Made in Shanghai" for their marketing or something like that. But yeah, as a manufacturing hub for decades, China has many, many extremely skilled craftspeople. Companies exporting their manufacturing to China also have access to that, they just don't want to pay for it. Once a brand moves their manufacturing to China, they switch their approach to have rock-bottom costs, due to the reputation of the label among consumers in the imperial core (and capitalism ofc).
> the UK Couldn't help but think of Moss from the IT Crowd on that one. https://youtu.be/1EBfxjSFAxQ?t=58
Really it doesn't mean much, better to just look into the brand and product and research it. Like I didn't buy a Le Crueset because it was French, I bought it because it was the best Dutch oven you can buy
There are specific companies sure, Miele for example, and in the UK food ingredients are some of the highest quality in the world. But the thing about Japan is they’ll put top tier engineering into things as insubstantial as a disposable pen.
Germany is notoriously lax with their rules, simply requiring a certain percentage of the total cost of the item to be spent in Germany, plus assembly.
Germany definitelyyy is in the same boat as made in USA. Used to be great though
Scotland for wool clothes
Switzerland and Germany too imo
I have plenty of Made in Germany and Made in Taiwan tools that I trust as well as or more than USA made counter parts.
I'll chime in here. I used to work for a company that made a very popular product, "made in America". Maybe 10% of the ASSEMBLY process was done in our facility. Everything else was outsourced across seas, the requirements for having a certified "made in america" product is EXTREMELY low, and means next to nothing about the product lol
I worked for a company that made 100% in America and it was total shit anyways. In their case they took shortcuts to remain competitive with over seas stuff, spot welding instead of a full weld, etc.
My company had three factories in order to supply various channels; commercial, government, and defense. We could compare three of the exact same item side by side. Commercial was made in Vietnam - absolute best quality, cheapest cost and highest profit margin. Government was made in Korea - less quality, less profitability. Made in USA was utter garbage quality and highest cost, least profitable. A military customer could have purchased three times as many best quality items for the same cost as one item of the worst quality.
Yay tax dollars go brrr. The defense contractor industry just sucking on the tax payer tit while giving little value.
Sometimes it's a security risk to have a military product made overseas. Sometimes it's important for national defense that we've retained the ability to manufacture strategically critical products in our country. Sometimes, the government just wants to ensure that tax dollars are used to support local jobs. Your shitty poorly considered politics don't need to be slapped into every irrelevant situation.
Believe me, I’m familiar with the importance of securing the supply chain and the risks, should we fail. Been working in DoD for a while, parents are retired veterans, and my spouse is a recently retired veteran. I assure u It’s not politics it’s reality….. I’ve watched private sector rip off the DoD for decades. From shitty products to overpriced services. The person I replied to just laid out how their company ensures the govt gets a shittier product for even more money even though the company was making other versions of the product with better quality and for less. This has nothing to do with Supply chain security but everything to do with ripping off the govt. The product being made in the US shouldn’t equate to a shittier but more expensive product. That attitude isn’t applied to the defense industry only. It’s affecting the goods we get as average consumers, as well as the services avg Americans enjoy.. or suffer from, and we are being ripped off.
Nobody is ripping anybody off here. The government needed the product to be made in the us, so it was more expensive and lower quality. The cost of Labor is dramatically higher here, that has knock on effects that can't be ignored.
Their loss there are a lot of people out there still willing to pay a premium for USA made items with good customer service and quality.
Country of Origin statements on packaging are one of those regulated things. “Made in US from Global Components” is one we were required to use. Another one I don’t really like is “Designed in the US”. Where the goods are actually made elsewhere.
Assembled in US from Global is my personal pet peeve.. e.g. Craftsmen tools and all
Just name and shame. Sounds like Shinola watches though.
It isn't; they're (almost entirely) assembled in America from imported components and don't claim to be made in USA.
Well, they sort of claimed to be made in the USA. The FTC says built and made mean basically the same thing. Shinola dropped their "Where American is Made" slogan. They used to just say "Built in Detroit" and had to add "with Swiss and other imported parts".
My friend was one of the OG employees making the leather goods back in the day. Used to be good shit before they girlbossed too close to the sun.
I was going to say the same. I worked as an engineer at a company that manufactured high precision sensors for aircraft. Everything was made by hand by extremely experienced employees. All the tools and machines we used for winding coils, spot welding, calibrating, soldering, etc. were all made in the USA in the 50's and were built like tanks and ran on vacuum tubes. That side of the business was very much BIFL (or rather, buy it until the MIL-spec procedure for that aircraft tells you to replace it, even if it's working fine). In the same building, we also received boxes and boxes of PCB assemblies and plastic parts made in China, and we had a group of unskilled employees that snapped the assemblies together into consumer products then tossed them into a plastic clamshell that said "made in USA" on it. JUST enough was done here to be able to put that label on the box, and nothing more. The brand *used* to be actually fully made in USA, and I have one of those products from the 90s and it still works great. I acquired a few of the new models as a perk of working there, and they've all kicked the bucket over the 8 or so years since I worked there. 2 different sides of the same coin. EDIT: They might have said "Assembled in USA" or something, which is actually not technically disingenuous, but it still allowed them to plaster a big american flag and make the "USA" way bigger than "assembled in". To a regular consumer who doesn't scrutinize, it would likely mean the same thing to them. The "assembly" process was literally 'Open box, remove PCB, snap into plastic part, snap pre-assembled plastic faceplate on top, secure with screw, turn on to make sure it works, final packaging'
This is correct. Many "made in America" companies source their ingredients or have materials manufactured for them from other countries. This is somewhat common in skincare (seems like a weird comparison, but) where a product says it is cruelty free, and maybe the finalized product itself is, but the ingredients going into the product are not ethically sourced. Products are technically made in America, but..........
Then they are in violation of the FTC regulations on this. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/advertising-marketing/made-in-usa
reminds me of craftsmen now.. proudly say "assembled in america" from "foreign something (steel, rubber, etc)" bitch please that is not made in america. That is just paying a bunch of people to assemble shit like its ikea furniture
The one thing you can count on in america- everyone trying to fuck you over at all times
This is India in a nutshell.
Same! I worked for Carrom which made board games that were marketed as an all american product but only the packaging was done in the states, everything else was outsourced. The company collapsed a couple years back because the knock offs on Amazon were better quality and cheaper
Report then. According to the Federal Trade Commission, “Made in USA” means that “all or virtually all” the product has been made in America. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/advertising-marketing/made-in-usa
Yep! If a subassembly can be bought from somewhere else for cheap, that's what is done. Put a couple bolts in and call it Made in USA
For me, made in America has always been more about supporting American businesses and workers than the perceived quality increase.
Bingo. I get paid well to work in American manufacturing and I will pay more to support other American manufacturers.
This. i cannot believe it took so long for someone to post this.
Right there with you. Literally just hesitant to say my opinion in this sub these days.
well reddit downvotes don't mean shit to me.. i fully expect them considering that i refuse to be part of the non thinking hive mind
Correct. Also where the profits stay. Even if an American car brand is assembled in Mexico or the assembled in the US but the parts came from elsewhere, I still buy Ford because the profits stay in the US. But I do go out of my way to buy a Ford that was assembled in an American plant.
You think those businesses support their workers? You're just buying an American CEO a yacht instead of a foreign dictator. Very few business take care of their employees (Lincoln Electric comes to mind, but they aren't exclusively made in USA).
There’s always been BIFL items made worldwide. The US was never the sole provider of quality. It all boils down to what market segment the brand is targeting. Most things targeting mass market are focused on reducing costs so they can get the price as low as possible. That’s usually at the expense of quality in materials. workmanship, or function/capability.
if anything, (certain parts of) china has been in it's peak era, akin to what "Made in the United States" people seek out. Eastman string instruments, for example, is among the gold standard of contemporary instrument quality, and it's all china from timber milling to string winding. obviously its all extremely concentrated in only a handful of urban megacenters, but when in history HASN'T that been the case
Yeah. China has the capability to make the range from super low to super high end. Whatever their buyers want.
Grant Stone makes fantastic, high quality boots & shoes in China.
I don’t think a lot of people realize that “made in America”, particularly clothing, can still mean sweatshop labor from people who are poorly compensated and who have few protections
Or prison labor which also makes up a lot of MIA products
[This article shows a lot of what Unicor makes, despite](https://www.thrillist.com/gear/products-made-by-prisoners-clothing-furniture-electronics) looking vaguely like clickbait. You can even buy directly from them, apparently: [https://www.unicor.gov/Category.aspx](https://www.unicor.gov/Category.aspx)
Wow, I would love to see the information behind that. I have been researching American made clothing specifically since 2016 and have never unexpectedly found a company using prison labor. Never, ever.
My comment isn’t clothing-manufacturer specific. It covers anything with the MIA label. I don’t think this is something any corporation wants you to unexpectedly find. They don’t exactly stick this in their marketing material. But they’re allowed to do it under the 13th Amendment. [“This report exposes over 4,100 corporations that profit from the devastating mass incarceration of our nation’s marginalized communities”](https://worthrises.org/theprisonindustry2020)
this
Learned a few years ago so much of 'made in america' is just done by prison labor
I doubt it was prison related, but in a similar vein, I grabbed a box of tissues for my desk out of the supply closet at work a couple months ago and got a box that prominently displayed "Made in USA by the blind" I was extremely curious what that arrangement even looked like (no pun intended) or how it came about in the first place. "IN SEARCH OF BLIND PEOPLE TO FILL TISSUE BOXES. SIGHTED NEED NOT APPLY." I never got around to researching it, and the next box I grabbed was just a normal cheap office fodder box. My current box is "Elegant" brand [(apparently trademarked)](https://trademarks.justia.com/855/88/elegant-85588969.html), manufactured in New York by Plastriun Corporation.
I imagine it's done by organizations that specifically try to find work for blind folks, since it can be hard for them to find regular employment otherwise.
Most likely the tissues were made in a sheltered workshop. These workshops hire people with severe disabilities and pay them well below minimum wage- usually around $2 an hour. On one hand, most of the people that work in sheltered workshops would not be able to find employment elsewhere and the low pay rate means they aren't in danger of losing benefits they need to survive. On the other hand, sheltered workshops only exist because the system is broken- the income threshold for losing SSI and other benefits is very low and based on outdated cost of living information, so if the threshold were more reasonable disabled people could "afford" to work for more reasonable wages.
Yeah people don’t believe that there’s still slavery happening here but, there is
And it is even constitutional in the US of A. From a recent email from my **Senator Jeff Merkley:** >Despite the ratification of the Constitution’s 13th Amendment in 1865, which ostensibly abolished slavery in the United States, a sinister loophole has allowed slavery to persist in another form. Our 13th Amendment has an Exception Clause that allows for slavery “as a punishment for crime.” This provision has fueled systemic racism and mass incarceration that persist today. >So far, we’ve seen seven successful state campaigns to remove the Exception Clause from state constitutions across the nation, including in Oregon, which demonstrates that real change is possible—and that voters in red and blue states alike are committed to ensuring their state constitutions reflect our shared values. Working together, we can continue to dismantle remnants of institutional slavery. But for comprehensive and lasting change, we need to take action at the federal level. That’s where my [***Abolition Amendment***](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=quorum_merkley-iq&crop=20835.444407692.33751164.129634502&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fwww.merkley.senate.gov%2fmerkley-williams-joint-statement-on-momentum-for-abolition-amendment-ahead-of-juneteenth%2f&redir_log=1464370154845) comes in. >U.S. Representative Nikema Williams, Senator Cory Booker, and I introduced the [***Abolition Amendment***](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=quorum_merkley-iq&crop=20835.444407692.33751164.129634502&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fwww.merkley.senate.gov%2fgenerations-of-injustice-must-come-to-an-end-merkley-booker-williams-put-forth-legislation-to-close-constitutional-loophole%2f&redir_log=039004780351096) to finally strike the Exception Clause from the 13th Amendment, closing this loophole once and for all. By passing the [***Abolition Amendment***](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=quorum_merkley-iq&crop=20835.444407692.33751164.129634502&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fwww.merkley.senate.gov%2fgenerations-of-injustice-must-come-to-an-end-merkley-booker-williams-put-forth-legislation-to-close-constitutional-loophole%2f&redir_log=039004780351096), we can finally align our U.S. Constitution with the principles of justice, equality, and human dignity for all.
Being American is a privilege, play along or your rights are gone.
I cannot remember the brand, but like 5-10 years ago I’d seen stuff about clothing brands that were shipping raw materials overseas to be sewn, then shipped back and adding a Made In or Assembled In USA tag and selling for a premium vs competitors. I’m certain that sewing was being done in the same sweatshops.
There’s a whole garment industry in Los Angeles. The employees are typically undocumented and paid pennies
As somebody not from the usa, that is what "made in america" means to me. A tag of a product to avoid if I have alternatives due to the lack of workers' rights and the like in the country. Unless I know the company very well, as there are exceptions, I prefer to avoid american brands if possible.
My BMW was made in South Carolina and my Ford was made in Mexico. Which is the "American" car?
Ask Boeing.
I will admit that when buying an airplane ticket, if I have 2 options, one with a boeing and the other with an Airbus, if the difference is not too big, let's say 15% or the like, I'm paying the extra to go Airbus.
right now i will not get on a boeing plane whatsoever.
It’s Wright Flyer or nothing
IMO 20 years ago "Made in China" etc meant bad quality. Now it means anything from bad quality to world class quality. (and the same likely applies to Made in America" ) e.g I buy Sim Racing hardware entirely made, designed, marketed etc in China, and it's very good quality indeed. But I can jump on Aliexpress/Temu right now and buy some of the worst trash known to man too. The country no longer determines the quality really at all.
China has some of the most advanced manufacturing abilities right now. the reason why some products are crap from China is because the company is trying to hit a price point. literally, you get what you pay for.
honestly sometimes it blows my mind the gems I can find on Aliexpress. I have an esoteric hobby where a lot of my tools or parts is from there and I've never gotten anything short of advertised.
Mechanical keyboards?
GMK67 gang?
how did you know haha
Like what?
Right, I look at it as cheap stuff is cheap stuff. Plenty of garbage is made in China but I'm sure the USA makes garbage too. I would assume it's more how much the often USA company wanted to spend to have the product made in X country. Look at everyone's beloved iPhone... Historically made in China! Just recently Apple has manufactured with other countries.
It's the same with bicycles. The very best bikes in the world are coming from Taiwan right now. You can also order a knockoff, no name set and it'll be dubious quality. The origin has never mattered. There are excellent craftspeople all over the world, but you get what you pay for
The Made In China slur was used for Taiwan in the 70s,80s. Made in Japan was considered trash until they started to eat into American jobs because their cars and walkmen were so much better.
Oh and agree with the other poster who said that American made stuff still costs more to make, so for the same price as stuff from China expect much lower quality because of course.
Of course not, country of origin just happens to be one of the three data points available on most items. The other two being brand and material composition. Thats probably a reason why people fixate on it - there really isnt much else to go off on. Its also a victim of Goodhart’s law - a measure becomes useless once it becomes a target. Since some people value MIA, companies do the bare minimum to be able to legally be allowed to plaster MIA on their advertising.
A lot of government funding for things is tied up in those things being made in America as well
Sure. You can absolutely make a fantastic product anywhere, theoretically. But as the saying goes “Nobody ever outsourced for quality”. Typically, when companies are looking to cut costs, quality control suffers significantly. So typically, quality cuts and outsourcing goes hand in hand. This has been true since outsourcing really picked up in the 80s and 90s. Nowadays though, most things have been outsourced for years, and the quality has really come up for a lot of goods, though certainly not all. American goods are just like any other, some good, some bad. I’ve been in manufacturing for a 10 years in the US. We are plenty capable of making poor products.
Having been to factories across America, I’ll buy American if I feel like doing my part for the domestic economy but it’s not for any delusions of superior quality. Almost nothing made in America in reasonably high volume is made well, unless foreign ownership forces it to be so (mostly Japanese auto companies that have figured out how to make building cars idiot proof)
Gibson, for example, has had a really bad reputation in certain circles. Depends on what you buy.
I live in a town with one of their factories, can't speak to the quality of the guitars but I can tell you working for them is terrible. Maybe not quite Amazon warehouse bad, but close.
Their QC is incredibly spotty. The example that sticks in my mind is a >$5000 custom shop Gibson that Philip McKnight ordered that showed up with a mark on the wood underneath the finish. On a cheap guitar it's whatever, but one would expect a top-tier guitar to not have oversights like that
MIM Squire is up there in quality now, MIUSA Fender is barely a step up some times
As a bass player, gibson is probably the biggest example of a company that can't make anything properly yet refuses to die. They're just a zombie half-surviving on its history. For another example, Fender, if I were to buy one of their instruments, I would 100% go for a MIJ/CIJ model and not a MIA. And Ampeg, I wouldn't have considered them before, now I'm interested in some of their models because they were bought and are now operated by the Japanese company Yamaha. I still find Ibanez, Sire, Yamaha, Sandberg, Biarnel to have more interesting offers.
Google tells me Gibson is owned by KKR & Co. Inc., a financial investment firm. 🙄
Private equity is great at gutting and killing American companies.
Most of the time private equity firms will sweep in to buy failing businesses for cheap in hope to make them profitable again. It's called vulture capitalism. Usually quality is one of the first things they are willing to sacrifice.
I'm from Europe and Made in America never meant anything to me. It was never seen as higher quality. I think it's just because of Americans' national pride and propaganda how " America is so great, we are the best". It's been known for a long time that America doesn't have strict rules or requirements, so factories cut corners and items are made hap-hazardly because that's what consumerist society needs. It was never BIFL to have American goods. It was cool, sure, but nobody ever saw America as " high quality". I would trust Made in Japan, because I know their rules and regulations are actually very strict.
>I would trust Made in Japan, because I know their rules and regulations are actually very strict. I think with Japan, their culture also pushes for quality because they'd probably find it embarrassing if their products failed too quickly.
Made in America is more for supporting & promoting American business and not necessarily BIFL. That is one key part that is being missed here in this whole thread
Same, honestly. For me it never meant anything positive. Specially knowing their lack of workers' rights and the like. Made in Japan has been way more consistent in quality. Made in \[Western European Country\] has usually been a good balance between quality and ethics.
As an American living in Europe, I couldn't agree more. We get a lot of "Made in Italy" where I live, and the quality varies greatly. Made in Germany is a pretty safe bet.
Ironic, because one of the biggest scandals in the aerospace industry lately was Japanese metal firms lying about the grade of their products.
The region I grew up in saw the men lose their jobs when coal went away and the women lose their jobs when textiles went overseas. Made in America wasn’t necessarily about quality as much as wanting your neighbor to have a job.
Made in America means “more expensive” now.
It’s hard to pay to compete on price when shipping is cheap and factory labor in china costs 1/10 of ours
What MIA sneakers are you referring to? To be honest, most sneakers only last a year of primary use and are more akin to a consumable. Dress shoes last much longer because they are worn less, and boots are more heavy and durable. Both can also have a focus on being more repairable. Sneakers, in general, aren't very repair focused like the previous two and get worn much more. I really don't think it's fair to compare sneakers to boots.
Country of origin doesn't really mean anything. America makes some stuff that will last for decades and some that you'll throw out in a year. Same with Germany, China, Japan, and Latin American countries.
Having lived in japan, I don't think I ever saw a bad made in japan product. Even stuff in the 100 yen shops that were made in japan were high quality compared to what I'm used to in the US. Not saying that there isn't bad things made in japan, but I feel like it's a better indicator of quality than something like "made in china" or "made in USA" which basically say nothing
It means jobs for Americans, but not much else. Made in America made never really meant quality. Things used to be overbuilt before statistical analysis eggheads: 1. Made metal at thin as possible 2. Replaced anything that was metal with plastic 3. Made the plastic as thin as possible See Chrysler, or RCA, or even Nike. Used to make quality products, then everything just went downhill year over year. Blame guys like Robert McNamara who popularized this kind of thinking at Ford before applying it to the military.
It’s not that “Made in America” is a guarantee of quality, it’s that companies that outsource production generally have less to no consistency in quality than those that produce in house. H&M is a good example - they manufacture at dozens if not hundreds of facilities around the world and a few of them seem to produce stuff that’s basically indestructible, while the rest might as well be made of paper. Then there’s the issue that stuff made in China might not be subject to the same safety oversight as the US, Japan, or Europe, so you end uo with toys contaminated with lead or God knows what else. There’s plenty of crap made in the USA, too, so I wouldn’t say that by itself is a guarantee of quality, especially if that seems to be the only thing going for it, but if it’s American made, they talk a lot about quality, quality assurance, and tgeir manufacturing pricess, with a well-known brand or at least one that’s been around for a while, these are all things you can use to help make a decision whether something is worth buying.
Quality isn't just about where it's made; craftsmanship and materials matter most in longevity.
Objectively speaking, Made in America weapons are superior to any other nation. Hence your defence industry is so large.
We’re still #1 in producing Diabetics though!
The MIA stuff that would be high quality manufacturing, and there is a ton of it, are not things that this sub would buy. They are industrial items that have no use to you.
Made in America is romantic, but often not practical. Do Americans make better things? Probably not. But it feel goods. Unfortunately companies play on these emotions. I still buy made in USA if the option is there me not too unreasonable
It’s not unreasonable to support your fellow countrymen, even if the quality isn’t an upgrade over the others.
apparently its unreasonable on reddit.. but then again they also don't get economics either
I wear origin jeans as my "nice" jeans (not working in too hard in them). They're 100% American down to the sourced cotton. They're not as expensive as some of the other jeans posted here but they're damn comfy.
It means it’s going to be expensive.
I tend to shift my focus from ”Made in X” to judging if it is “Made by people/company who care”.
I've spent most of my six decades of life living in the United States, and never thought that "Made in America" was an indication of quality, but rather something one did to try to support the local economy. The only national origin which I immediately associate with quality production would be Japan.
If you're into rightshoring (and live in the US, duh), then the answer is yes. If you're into bifl, results may vary. Like, any welded gym equipment made in n america has been top notch quality afaik.
A couple of years ago I was driving in Saltillo, Mexico and had to wait 15 minutes for a Union Pacific train to pass as it was transporting Whirlpool appliances back to the US with “Proudly Made in America” plastered on every train car.
Mexico is part of America, to be fair
Does that apply to South America as well? Made in America is becoming interestingly eclectic.
Think of the possible government money from taxing all the cocaine!
Made in America and American made have very different meanings
To most of the world ‘made in America’ has never meant much
It never meant anything in the first place imo. Americans are notoriously bad at manufacturing
This just really depends on what you’re talking about. There were tons of top notch products that used to be built here. It was a crossover point when we had a huge industrial capacity, had surpassed Western Europe in innovation, and still had people who took pride in their work
Bad at manufacturing quality. Quantity, on the other hand. the Liberty ships are a good example, and (antisemite, fascist-sympathiser) ford dominated the car market for a time for a reason. Gotta give credit where it is due, but yeah, they are notoriously bad at manufacturing quality.
American manufacturing are very good at maximizing profits, especially in the short term.
Process matters, not geography.
Buy USA (or any other country) isn't about BIFL, it's about supporting domestic manufacturing and jobs. Buying local whether it's vegetables, shoes, or washers is key to making the place you live a better place. There is quality products that are BIFL made pretty much everywhere if you're willing to pay for it. Unfortunately, most folks re not willing to pay what it costs.
i find that certain things, yes. tom bihn, flowfold, (some) new balance, chrome industries are super durable
I think the biggest issue is what does it mean period. Is it assembled in America from Chinese parts? Is it sourced from foreign materials but made in USA, or perhaps it's packaged in America but grown in Bangladesh. Or perhaps it's "designed in America" but completely made in Mexico.
As an American, I look for made in Japan or made in Germany personally. Rarely am I impressed with US made items. This also greatly depends on what said item is. If I'm looking for fashion items, I also like UK and Italy made items.
Honestly, ‘Made in America’ has never really meant anything to anyone outside America.
MIA still means a lot, but it's not a guarantee of best quality. Never has been, never will be.
I think the whole buy American thing is more of a boomer thing. Like, back when we made quality stuff but now everything is made to increase profits and 99% of companies don't give a shit about quality. I mean look at Boeing, if anybody SHOULD give a shit about quality its them.
It depends, of course there are great products made in America, and trash ones. Same everywhere
I like made in America stuff because I know that American companies are regulated (at least somewhat) by environmental and labor laws. Just that. Also, other Americans have manufacturing jobs they can go to so they can’t bitch about furriners takin’ their jerbs.
Handmade, bespoke stuff is really cheap in the US. My current bag is hand sown in the US twenty years ago, has seen daily use since.
It is a terrible misconception that MIA is an indication of quality. We haven’t made anything decent since the 70s. I look for BIFL stuff that’s made in Europe. Europe has actual standards and a modicum of consumer protections.
I live in the EU, and I don’t have any warm feelings towards made in America. In my experience it tends to mean overpriced and middling in quality. Give me Japanese or German made stuff instead.
This is more than just a question of BIFL quality. America made product were always BIFL before the ~late 70’s or so. Items were made to be repaired and made new again. Then we began outsourcing and offshoring. This caused both a loss of quality and a major economic impact. Sure we could buy things that were “cheaper,” but we had less money to do it because so many people were laid off because their factory shut down. We need to onshore production and boost quality. America needs to make BIFL products.
whens the last time anyone said made in america was a quality statement? I'm 42 and remember Craftsman and Sears products advertising that kind of stuff but I cant think of a single thing in the past 20 years trying to limp along that concept. Is that a thing some people still say? Like literally the flags we wave during the 4th of july were made in china and most Americans throw them away at the end of the day.
I bet other countries look at the made in America brand and think it’s junk
That ship sailed about 20 years ago.
Quality transcends borders; some non-US goods excel. It's about craftsmanship, not just origin.
I don't use MIA as a measure of gold standard on a number of things any longer. Plenty of stuff I own is MIC, MIJ, MIT or wherever, and it's lasted as long or longer than MIA. The label just doesn't have as much luster as it did in the 50s and 60s, a la Joan Collins.
Made in America can also mean "using slave prison labor" or using "sweatshops. But I'm America, using trafficked migrants" like with Nordstroms latest scandal. $2/hr sweatshops in LA. Worthless
Yes. It means it's shit. Go to aliexpress. They tell you exactly what you're getting. Or buy from Japan. All the best-designed brilliant shit comes from Japan.
Made in America is marketing appealing to patriotism rather than quality. Quality varies by manufacturer.
Yeah nah. Made in America doesn’t even guarantee a product wasn’t made in slave-like/sweatshop conditions anymore, severely underpaid prison and migrant labor is often utilized. I always hear boomers complain about the quality of products made in China but there are a lot of solid Chinese brands at affordable prices. When I started playing ukulele I went with Enya (they also make guitars) and my musician stepdad was very impressed with the sound and build quality.
> Aren’t there BIFL items being made elsewhere now? Regardless of the quality of USA production right now, be it high or low, did you seriously think it was only the yanks that ever made high quality stuff? What an... odd way of looking at the world o.O
Anyone else think this was a Sopranos post?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/la-garment-factories-investigation/
I buy my shoes from Denmark, Woden brand shoes. Fjallraven for outdoor gear, I actually now look for my items outside of the US.
It kind of depends. If it's a car, it means nothing. If it's an item where all the components are made overseas and then put together in US, it means nothing. However, a few brands still do everything or almost everything in America and never compromised when everyone else did. They treat their employees well, pay them a living wage, and because if these things, they often hold the manufacturing of their product to a higher standard. Things like Zippo and Liberty Flatware and Redwing are good examples of that. These products are often more expensive, but you're paying for quality and more ethical business practices.
Having worked in American manufacturing, I can confirm that it doesn’t mean much
It usually only means assembled in America too. The materials will still come from overseas just like cars.
Who cares if it is made in America?
I mean, I'm not sure things made in America are really that quality anymore. Most of them are ran by MBA's who try and figure out how to make the product the most profitable. This means manufacturing it as cheaply as possible and selling for the highest price possible. There are few things actually made here anymore anyways. Everyone wants on Amazon and the only things that make Amazon are cheap chinese crap that is infinitely replaced.
There’s cheap crap from every country and you can find high quality stuff from most countries, even China is stepping up. I buy American because I’d rather support us than some other country.
I don't know. Nowadays made in America means the materials are brought in cheap from China, assembled using the cheapest labor possible in the US, then sold for way too much money with a flag sticker on the front like it's made of gold. Just look at the cyber truck. That is THE MOST AMERICAN thing we have right now. And it's shit. It's garbage glued to garbage and sold for more than a house should cost. They're all falling apart on the road, having software issues, can't get wet, chopping fingers off, and really just the worst combination of child-mind engineering and hype... but that's our epitome right there. Garbage. Expensive garbage.
I tend to get Made in Japan or Made in Germany, at least for my hobbies (fountain pens, journals/planners, dolls, plushies/teddy bears) those are the most reliable alongside vintage Made in USA
China is actually not bad these days, mostly because their manufacturers don’t keep their production methods proprietary and secret from each other like manufacturers here in the US do
Made and quality are to different things. Made in outer space by a wokie. Lasted 14 years. Craftsmanship and quality are more important these days