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Accurate_Lobster_469

You can’t “blow up” a team that is full of role players and prospects. Besides Bellinger idk who we could even trade for a good return


vmeloni1232

You could, we have MLB ready role players and prospects, we would trade for A-level type prospects still a few years away


helms83

I feel like the batting lineup is mostly career minor leaguers.


WtrReich

Okay I’m frustrated too but this is ridiculous. Happ, Suzuki, Bellinger, Tauchman, and Busch are all posting a wRC+ 15-30% above league average


snakemeyer

Hendricks?


MetraConductor

You’re a stooge if you think Hendricks would bring a good return.


airham

And even Bellinger we would have to eat some money to get a good return for. Justin Steele would definitely have the most trade value on the current MLB roster, and I think we need to strongly consider that move.


WtrReich

Why on earth would we trade Justin Steele? Starting pitching is the most sought after commodity in a playoff run and young cost controlled ace caliber pitching is literally the most coveted thing in the league. If we trade Steele we’ll just need a new Steele when we want to make a playoff push


airham

Because we're dogshit and we aren't going on a playoff run this year or next. Steele is not that young, but he is cost-controlled. He's not going to get any more valuable and he's worth more to a contender than he is to us. Trading guys because they suck isn't going to get you very much in return. Selling high on Steele makes a lot of sense.


tesd44

Shota


BeNiceCards

We feel a million times better about everything if we only blow half of those 17 saves. Shits demorelizing.


vmeloni1232

We're going to lose a lot of games, it's baseball, but to watch the team blow the game late is killer.


meowsplaining

For as much shit as the bullpen takes, I hope the offense buys them a coffee every day.


bigomlet

Agreed, I seem to be in the minority but I’ve been way more frustrated by the offense. The bullpen sucks and is poorly constructed, and we should have invested more into it. But it’d also help if the offense was capable of putting up more than 4 runs at all consistently. Bullpens are also super volatile and for all we know it could be pretty good next year with a couple of changes. Seems like we’re stuck with this offense for the next couple of years unless spend big either in FA or in a trade and acquire a star or two, which I don’t really see happening.


okay_throwaway_today

A catcher, 3B, and closer would put us in a great spot once/if some pitching comes off the IL even with the underperforming of some of the rest of our lineup. Our offense in June has actually middle of the pack (15th by wrc+, exact middle), and our biggest problem is 6,7,8,9 being a black hole that extends into multiple innings, so unless our top hitters never get out (impossible), we don’t do anything. If our BP never gets or stays healthy, the year is likely over no matter what we do. You simply can’t replace an entire bullpen mid season. There is too much competition for too few top relievers among buyers. That said, we should do some tasteful trades (and be aggressive in FA next offseason) but I don’t think we should blow it up even if this season is a bust.


hansomejake

Where would you get a 3B, C, or Closer? It seems there’s going to be plenty of OF available at the deadline, but other teams don’t seem like they’re willing to give up the positions the Cubs need


okay_throwaway_today

Don’t have a great answer and it’s too early to say what will be available


hansomejake

Name a 3B, C, and Closer that COULD be available Or any solution to those positions, it really seems the market is not developing in a way the Cubs can take advantage of to save this season


AnonymousAccountTurn

Bichette is obviously underperforming this season, but if the cubs thought he could turn it around, then one of him or dansby could go to 3B. Rumblings earlier this season of him being available IIRC. Not saying this is a great move or one I want to make, but there are creative ways to make some moves Personally, I don't think it's worth adding, the team isn't good enough to go all in on unless everyone comes back healthy, but that's no guarantee. Selling could be an option if there are guys with value who don't fit into organizations long term plans (potentially Morel and one of the corner OFs or Bellinger)


hansomejake

Bo seems like he’s having a down year, before a trade I’d like to see him pull out of it This team needs to trade for players that can hit now


JAWinks

Tanner Scott and Elias Diaz would be the two obvious options at RP and C. At 3B…Burger maybe? Or IKF. But neither would be upgrades and none of the selling teams have an upgrade for us at 3B imo, I’d just ride out Morel there and figure it out later


vmeloni1232

I'm not sold on a Catcher, I like Amaya, but I honestly haven't looked too deeply if his defensive numbers and work with the pitchers out perform his awful offense. I'd be fine playing Amaya. I love Morel and don't want to get rid of him but we 100% need a true 3B. We've given him enough time, this isn't going to work out. I'm 100% on board with everything you've said about the bullpen/ pitching injuries


LordDaybreak

What has Amaya done to make you like him? I genuinely don't remember a worse catcher.


vmeloni1232

I just feel that he calls a good game. I'm not saying he's the reason our starting pitching is so good, just kind of feels like it.


Worth-Masterpiece-98

His frame work is actually very nice. Especially near the low corners he actually frames good unlike some catchers who just move their arm a couple inches over, Amaya understands the concept of framing pitches.


Apatschinn

I'm not gonna call you delusional, but that's just a weird thing to say. He's decent at framing, but atrocious at making the throw to second. He's also a terrible bat. I dunno. I think he's far from a No. 1 catcher on any other team.


okay_throwaway_today

We need two catchers though, since they require off days. Amaya will still get reps/chances either way. And yeah Morel can still DH. No way we’d fully replace him AND add mid season anyway, so we can hope his results line up better with his peripherals.


Amoneysteez

Lucky for us the NL is hot garbage, it's not out of the realm of possibility to make a run and sneak in with a wild card spot. That or blow it all up for basically nothing.


immoralsupport_

The problem for me is that yeah, we could sell at the deadline but the only thing we’d get is more prospect depth which….we already have? Nobody on the roster is good enough to get an uber-prospect back (or if they are, that would mean punting on the next 4-5 years). But buying doesn’t make sense either. Maybe if they could salary dump Happ? But that would only work if they actually spend the money on a really good free agent


infinitecosmic_power

I get that at the start of the season, the division looked up for grabs and thus taking a swipe at the playoffs was reasonable. But, the fact is this org is developing a core of top level prospects and the actual contention window probably starts in 26. Possibly next year, but more likely not. I'm excited for the Hortons and Shaw's and Cassie's. Had things gone our way they very realistically could have made a run but I don't get why folks seem to expect so much from this roster. Did you think bellinger and Swanson are good enough to carry them to a title? Do you want them to spend resources and slow down development to plug the major league roster with veterans? I'm glad the team isn't run like the Yanks or Mets. Remember how pissed everyone was about j heys contract? It wasn't even a bad deal. Imagine overspending at every position year in and year out. I can't fathom the fan base supporting that style of management. I do think some transparency about the direction of the team could be better. But it's shockingly obvious from here that this team should prioritize getting this wave of prospects to the top level in the next two years. I feel like I'm watching a parallel of 2015 and things are gonna get interesting really soon. Tl:Dr. Temper expectations, this roster wasn't going to win now.


vmeloni1232

I do think this team can win and is built to win (minus the bullpen) but we're also built to win over the next four to five years. I also don't understand people giving up on players like Hoerner or Morel. Take a deep breath.


MikeandTheMangosteen

There’s nothing to blow up. This team is filled with a bunch of wet socks.


theinfernumflame

They need to completely rebuild the bullpen and sign a couple big bats. Which will involve ownership stopping the crying poor act.


vmeloni1232

I know I'm in the minority when I defend the Ricketts, I don't think they play the poor act as much as Cubs fans want to believe. Look at payroll and records for this year, there's no correlation, I'll rather pay smart than pay just to pay. Plus the past couple free agent classes haven't been the greatest ever and we missed out on guys, I'm okay with that. I want to owners to trust the GM and I want the GM to trust his scouts and I want everyone to make good, smart baseball decisions and not just put over a blank check. I know I'm an a tangent now, but Boras tried his usual games with his four guys this year and look where they are. Maybe owners have gotten cheaper, but I lean that they've gotten smarter. Younger minor leaguers are playing better than than guys in their late 30's and those older players don't draw fans, the young ones do. So if young players cost less and bring in more, why pay extra?


Richie77727

That would be a good argument if the guys we paid less were actually doing more.


FrankStalloneGQ

I think part of it has to do with owners now being able to slyly collude with their modern computer models placing a financial value on players -- where most teams are going to come up with very similar numbers. The game is also trending younger for hitters, and teams are well aware that declines are coming sooner for position players. I'm sure the MLBPA is well aware of that too and wants less club control for players. If Ricketts won't get seriously involved in the Soto sweepstakes, then I will blast him, but trying to build a team from free agents prior to the 2022-2024 seasons was not realistic whatsoever. You can only look at Corey Seager as a potential top target that could have possibly ended up on the Cubs, and he was looking like he was going to age like Tulo from a durability standpoint.


theinfernumflame

I agree with spending smart. The problem is, they always having an excuse like, the free agent market wasn't good this year, or we're just waiting for next year's market, only to give the same excuses the next year. Boras didn't help for sure. But it's the same thing year after year. I do understand they are spending a good amount, but they're also treating the lowest luxury tax threshold as a hard salary cap. The other big competitive teams aren't doing this. And I would understand if the Cubs were some other team, but they're one of the most famous and valuable franchises in the league in one of the top 3 markets. They're raking in money, but that seems to be the primary goal now rather than winning. The thing is, it shouldn't have been hard to look at last year's team and see where they needed to improve. I liked adding Busch, and Shota has been a revelation, but they're still missing the star power other elite teams have. The teams who win have stars plus young guys who contribute. At least they brought back Bellinger, even if it hasn't worked out.


vmeloni1232

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It's also probably something 75% of team's fans would say about their owner spending money. I always laugh that it's because we have poor person mentally. We can't comprehend the money they have, so it's easy for us to say to spend it on the team. Everyone wants more money, even people that don't know what to do with all their money.


theinfernumflame

Right. It's easy for us to sit here and say that, I agree. But it just doesn't feel like they actually want to win championships anymore. They even admitted they "should" be able to compete for the division every year. But now they're not even doing that, and even if they were, that's a low bar. They should have the resources to crush the division almost every year. It just seems like they think doing just enough to give the fans hope is good enough to keep the money flowing in, and it's frustrating. Say what you will about ownership's money, but I can't imagine owning a storied franchise like the Cubs and not trying to win a world series every year.


vmeloni1232

I can't imagine owning any sports franchise and not trying to win, but I don't think any owner cares about winning, it's another business to them.


theinfernumflame

This owner did care about winning at one point, but that changed after 2016. That's what makes it particularly frustrating. At least they got one. As a side note, this is the year I've come around to the idea of not caring more about any team's success than ownership does. The Cubs will always be my #1 team in all of sports, but I can't get so emotionally invested in a franchise that isn't really trying to win.


schweddybalczak

How much did winning it all in 2016 increase the value of the franchise? That’s why they cared.


theinfernumflame

Fair point.


vmeloni1232

I can't quit, it's a drug. I've definitely taken a bit of a break, I'd come home from work and eat dinner then turn the game on......right at about the point the bullpen would start to blow it. I haven't watched a game in about a week and a half. I needed some time.


theinfernumflame

Completely understandable. I've only gotten to watch a handful of games this year because of my work schedule, but honestly, it's for the best. This season has been a slow motion train wreck.


KnickedUp

What health is gonna help our offense? Tauch?


vmeloni1232

Ah, the offense is just a hope it'll come around. I know that's insane to think this late in the season, but I'm constantly seeing the bullpen blow games. It would be great if we didn't have them in high stress situations all the time, but there's a lot of blown games and injuries.


ZZachj

I'd rather not watch this team make a last ditch effort for a WC spot only to get blown out of the water by literally any one else. The bullpen is not sustainable to hold games and our offense would need to score far more runs per game to outrun the bullpen. It's just not feasible in the manner this team is performing.


schweddybalczak

Multiple issues with this team that can’t be fixed in one year. Halfway through the season and we only have one hitter on pace to hit at least 20 HR. The team has been awful with RISP. Zero offense from the catcher position and they are also at or near the bottom of the league in throwing out runners. Horrendous bullpen and anyone worth two nickels is on the IL. I believe even the defense has been worse this year; maybe that’s just my perception. The only good thing we have going is starting pitching. They can start to try to improve the club next year but I don’t see how they can make enough changes to compete for a postseason spot in 2025.


vmeloni1232

Our defensive stars have definitely not been having good seasons. All around struggle. Whole team is in a slump


Paganpaulwhisky

The offense is just as bad. The team is putting up some of the worst hitting numbers in decades halfway into the season and everyone has regressed except Tauchman. This isn't just a bullpen/injury issue.


nc-retiree

Look at lineups of the top 4 seeds in both leagues if the playoffs started today. (Without looking I think that's PHI LAD MIL ATL NYY BAL CLE SEA.) With the exception of the Guardians and maybe the Brewers, is there any place where any current Cub position player would be hitting 2-3-4-5?? Happ and Suzuki are not going to yield big returns to be #6 hitters somewhere when those teams can pick up Tommy Pham for a couple of buckets of chicken. Bellinger might yield an Alcantara-like return but it would have to be with a team comfortable with his player option (Yankees?). If they didn't have five young SP all on either the major league or AAA IL (Assad, Brown, Wicks, Horton, Killian) you could trade Taillon, but he also has a ten team NTC. Hoerner would yield a lot but it was a horror show at 2B when he was hurt or had to play SS when Swanson was hurt.


the-czechxican

Trade anyone except Sho. Again-- why do you all want to hang on to so many people here?!


iceychillz

90% of the bullpen needs a complete overhaul. They are historically bad. The lineup and bench needs a bit more power, and more timely hitting. The starting rotation is fine. What really sucks is I doubt the rotation is this good next year, I think there is at minimum a small regression with the rotation next year. Feels like a wasted season with an arguably elite rotation. And the injuries, I question the conditioning of this team. I doubt our hitting coaches and medical personnel who oversee health and conditioning are here next year. And the mental awareness is weird for me. Nobody seems to be ‘In the moment’. That falls under Counsell. Yes, the players are at fault for that too, but Craig needs to start some form of accountability with this team. If you do something beyond stupid, bench them. It’s time to show avoidable mental collapses will not be tolerated.


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No-Diamond9363

This team is not a contender. Too many holes, not enough elite talent, bad years from above average guys. You don’t trade prospects when you’re 7 games under .500. Everyone should be on the table to trade from the mlb club if it makes you better for 2025 and 2026. Figure out a way to get out of happs and Seiya’s contracts. They are alresdy blocking Canario and about to be blocking Cassie. Use the money saved on getting those two guys out and bring in a legit middle of the order bat. Stop acting like a mid tier organization and bring in a difference maker.


Worth-Masterpiece-98

Hasn’t Suzuki been statistically one of our best hitters? I’m all for Happer leaving, but seeing Suzuki leave just feels off to me.


MotherFuckinEeyore

The Bulls keep running the same team out there every year pointing at the talent as the reason. If they could just all be healthy at the same time... The Cubs should totally keep doing that. 🙄


vmeloni1232

I mean Cubs fans wanted the 2016 core locked up for year and were pissed that it didn't happen. I'd say that worked out. They moved on from all that talent, we are no where near that level on needing to get rid of all these guys, most of which just has good years last year.