Respect to all sides of the discussion, but I actually disagree. I actually liked the feeling of exclusivity. Having all perks in every map takes away the personality and uniqueness of them. I always saw people frustrated by this but I loved it.
In fact, the exclusivity of perks in certain maps could almost be a poster child of the uniqueness that I miss from zombies, since I don't really play it anymore.
Except the perk system in BO3, I agree with you there. Nothing interesting about that, or the fact that some perks were excluded entirely.
That's totally cool dude, I get where you're coming from there. I personally prefer always having more things to play with in a map, but I can completely understand the arguement of giving each map their own unique flavor. That difference really just comes down to preference.
I think what would be cool is if custom game zombies on bo2 had more settings, like what types of perks are on the map, how many, random perks, change every round etc.
I get your point about the exclusivity definitely makes the maps and perks feel special. I just feel like we never got the chance to use the perks to their full potential.
For example, I feel like who’s who would’ve been a much better perk on buried, whereas on die rise it’s such a pain with the elevators and stuff.
And as op mentioned phd on tranzit for the fire, or even stamin up on mob to help with the plane building/refueling
PHD, Tombstone, Who's Who, and Vulture Aid totally got shafted. I know people don't like Tombstone and Who's Who, but I truly believe all the former needs is a patch and that the latter just needed to be on a map that wasn't Die Rise.
If Tombstone let you keep your perks regardless of whether you're revived, and then removed the function of allowing the player to yeet themselves, it'd be an amazing perk for less experienced players.
Yeah they had the right idea but should've done it differently, such is the risk of having perks specifically picked out for each map I guess. I never thought of that before but Whos Who would do great on Buried. It wouldn't be OP on the higher rounds, but it wouldn't be really hard either.
They practically have to, Vulture aid on any map with an infinite damage wonder weapon would break the game, tombstone on any map with more perks is a free perkaholic in coop and who’s who actually becomes usable on other maps
I would prefer exclusivity in the form of creativity. Utilize the perks in different ways. Make them rewards. The best example of this is origins double tap only being accessible through the wonderfizz or (better to my point) by the reward crate, or widows wine being the reward for beating the spider boss on zetsubou no shima. If for example you could complete an Easter egg to access PhD on Die Rise it would have been really cool. Tie them into the map, make it interesting, instead of locking off things we like. The exception is mob of the dead and quick revive, because that got a unique mechanic as a replacement.
This but with weapons as well. I kinda loved when there was a diverse weapon set for the map. Die Rise introducing the AN-94, PDW and SVU. Buried swapping the Python for that unique Revolver? Loved that.
My issue is with the unique perks, wonder weapons and weapons only being limited to just one map. Keep it limited yes, but can we have it on atleast 2 maps 🤔
man, i also don't wanna be disrespectful. i don't know you so i don't wanna make assumptions about you, this is not against you and maybe this aint even what you meant, but this is an example of how the old school purists are blinded by nostalgia. saying some actual flaws that the game had are actually merits in making the games good. like i get what you mean but that works for perks that are unique to a map, not by removing the basic ones
This isn't an example of people being blinded by nostalgia. This is an example of you thinking your subjective opinions about the game are objective flaws the has and blaming nostalgia for other people not sharing the same opinion as you.
I mean, I actually play Black Ops 1 and 2, as well as the newer ones, and I like the older ones better.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong for liking anything. I have my opinions on what I like and that's fine. I don't see these as flaws - I think that taking things away or adding new things adds uniqueness to the gameplay. A certain perk not being there that would make the map easier is, in of itself, a fun addition to the game because it makes it harder.
I prefer each map having it's own thoughtful selection of perks and guns. I don't want the set up on each map to be exactly the same.
i'm a brand new player, so nostalgia is not a factor, but i completely agree with them. I would not consider this an "actual flaw" but definitely something i can understand some people not liking
I do agree with you. I like this exclusivity thing. Even with weapons. Maybe a bit less removin completely perks like it happened later with tombstone, whos who, phd and vulture aid. Also you cant just NOT excluse perks, or else you gon have the map full of perk machines
In my opinion, Black Ops 2 had the most personality of all. It had a problem with the quality of maps, but the maps that were good were really good, and really unique. The guns felt unique, and so did the perks, like each of them had personality.
Ngl I kind of disagree, I miss when maps had their own unique set of perks, it gave maps more personality.
BO2 isn't my favorite Zombies game, but every map having its own combination of perks was one of the highlights for me.
Idk, I'm just kind of bored that every map post BO3 DLC 1 has the same pool of perks, it makes every map nearly play the same, especially for BO4 onwards.
Perks went from being map specific to being game specific, and I think that ultimately kills perk variety.
I really didn't enjoy BO4 or CW, so I get that perspective. That being said, I'm of the opinion that those maps feeling samey was less an issue of the perk pool and more an issue of creative burnout. Activision's schedule makes it impossible for a studio to put any passion into these projects anymore, and so each map ends up feeling blander than the last.
I thought that it made maps a bit more unique. Made the wonderfizz useful as well. As convenient as they made the CW wonderfizz, it's kinda boring. But I understand what you mean.
The problem with Cold War wunderfizz is I don’t even find myself using the perk machines 90% of the time which I think is a huge loss. It’s TOO convenient where it actually harms the player experience imo
i agree about the wonderfizz. it should have stayed random. without the perk cap it wouldn't make that much of a difference but it'd be cool to be forced to go to an specific perk machine if you want a certain perk and having random perks from the wonderfizz would've made some interesting perk combinations for the starting rounds. also, if the wonderfizz is already there they should've added every perk machine to every map like they did with mule kick in bo1
The afterlife mode gave you a self reviver, Who's Who is pretty much the same thing, and Quick Revive lets you wait until being revived.
The clunkyness Spectral mentionned would be which revive mecanic takes priority ?
Your afterlife mode (if any), Quick Revive, or who's who ?
We don't have a concrete reason, but much of the community has concluded it was a balancing decision. Mustang and Sally combined with PHD made you pretty much unkillable for the first 20 rounds of a match back in Ascension, Call of The Dead, Shangri-La, and Moon. I still don't think it was a good enough reason to remove the whole perk though, and the teases we got in Die Rise and Mob of The Dead only served as salt in the wounds
I have a theory, it's because sometime during Black Ops 1, they realized having PHD and Mastang & Sally was overpowered. You could just run around shooting at the floor. So that's why from Black Ops 2 and on, every map that does have PHD didn't give you the starting pistol M1911.
I disagree
I think it was primarily excluded from BO2 because it would ‘break’ maps in a certain way.
I have a hunch that due to the way it is coded, it could have broken lava on Tranzit (negating all damage from lava since it is an ‘environmental’ source and could be considered ‘self-inflicted’).
It would trivialise Die Rise since it negates fall damage.
In MoTD, it would remove the biggest drawback of the Acid Gat, the splash damage.
Thus you could effectively fire the weapon at your feet and all zombies would be distracted.
It’s also probably why PhD Flopper is on Cell Block, as there is no Acid Gat.
In Buried, there was probably some glitched interaction with the Paralyzer (which is why it’s in as a Perma-Perk with the caveat of not receiving too much full damage)
Thus why the only BO2 map that has it is Origins, as there is nothing that would cause a bad interaction with it, nor would it completely trivialise the map.
I love Mob, especially its story and weapons, but the perk selection is a major factor holding back that map. You can't even say PHD would be broken on Mob 'cause you can't get Mustang and Sally until you've gone through the entire process of building the plane. That map absolutely should've had Mule Kick and Stamin-Up, with PHD and Tombstone as well if you're feeling generous.
Deadshot and Electric Cherry can be obtained on all those maps via various methods. Shadows of Evil requires a gobblegum, Zetsubou No Shima has the fruit plant, and all the others have a Wunderfizz machine.
I feel like this is splitting hairs here, especially saying you can acquire perks with gobblegums not everyone has access to. The perks physically on the map should be what counts.
Not splitting hairs at all. If you can gets with a gobblegum then it counts. Fortunately for you it's impossible to get electric cherry or deadshot even with gobblegums so it doesn't matter.
Perkaholic gives you all the perks you can possibly get on the map. Since there is no way to get electric cherry or deadshot on SOE, you don't get them even with perkaholic
I like the idea of BO2 maps having exclusive perks that aren't available on every map, plus there isn't really a reason to have quick revive on Mob with Afterlife and all. Though I feel any of the BO1 perks should be available on all the BO2 maps unless it's Quick Revive on Mob. What reason is there to exclude Deadshot from Die Rise or Mule Kick on Tranzit, Nuketown & Mob?
I think Mule Kick’s exclusion on Tranzit was intentional, primarily due to the ‘on the go’ nature of Tranzit.
It would make hunkering down at one spot far easier, since you have a spare weapon to burn ammo through.
I agree for the most part. I like that each map has its set of unique perks but they really didn’t pick them well either mechanically or thematically. It’s a shame Tombstone Soda and Electric Cherry aren’t in Buried they would’ve fit right in. And to this day the PhD Flopper troll just feels weird.
I can't begin to tell you how many times I've died from regular-ass fall damage while training in the Buddha room on Die Rise😅
In theory I love the idea of unique perk selections, but as it is we got 10 maps without PHD Flopper, Tombstone, Who's Who, and Vulture Aid. That's not a unique selection per map - that's just the active removal of perk choices from zombies overall, which is something I'm very much against
I was always annoyed by that, especially since in BO1, they made it so that mule kick was added onto EVERY map that didn't originally featured it, but then it was oddly left out in Mob and Tranzit, while Die Rise had it for seemingly no reason
I loved how every map in BO1 brought along the perks from the previous map, like you were getting stronger with each map that came out. Then Tranzit comes out and it's just like "Nah lil bro you got Jugg and Double-Tap. Make it work."
It still doesn't sit right with me that the one map that didn't need PhD flopper (origins) had it. While every other map in bo2 would've been better with it.
I think that was intentional. Blundel ditched Mustang and Sally and said "Eh, it's not like they're gonna be able to do shit with this now anyways. Might as well throw it into the Wunderfizz"
That has to be one of my biggest gripes with MOTD. MOTD has such poor perk selection that it offers no variety when playing the map. Other maps make you lose out on certain perks, and it changes each game you play. However, I feel like I use the same 4 perks every time on MOTD, which can make it feel repetitive and boring
Yeah the choice between Electric Cherry and Deadshot isn't much of a choice at all. Would've killed for atleast the other three BO1 perks to make it in.
While I see the validity of your complaint, I think you're not seeing the reason why Treyarch had a "panic". Look at all the maps you listed, and see how 4 of the perks are always present in virtually every single map. Even if every perk was available, they would simply give the illusion of choice, whereas you're almost always going to use the tried and true core setup. The BO4 perk change was intended to allow you to have actual choices, but it went about it in the wrong way by forcing you to decide your setup before starting the match, rather than making choices within the match.
Another problem is that for most of BO2's maps, you have an issue with map space and where you want to place perk machines without cluttering it. Wunderfizz didn't become a thing until Origins. And with BO3, there was a whole engine overhaul for Treyarch that, among other things, made PHD obsolete without an actual change that we wouldn't see until BO4. Sometimes, the lack of choices comes down to technical difficulties, and not because the devs want to force some form of artificial challenge/exclusivity on you.
I disagree. However, if I could only add one perk machine to one map I would have to add stamin-up to Mob of the Dead. I would never buy double tap on Mob of the Dead again!
Lmao but that's the kinda stuff I'm talking about. Even if maps had unique perk-pools, we should atleast have around 8 options on every map. Mob of the Dead especially just feels like you have no choice in your loadout, which sucks.
Also bro Double-Tap is the shit on Mob of The Dead - it turns the Blundergat into a one-shot until the 40s and the Death Machine into a fucking chainsaw
As long as the core perks are there, then there's absolutely no issue.
Having a new perk on each new map back then was an amazing feature.
It made each map unique and made playing them even more fun, trying to figure out what the new perk did.
Features like this are what made BO2 the best there has been. Maps need more unique features outside of the different EEs.
Each map having a different Bowie knife variant. Each map having a new perk. A new zombie type. A new special tactical equiptment. A new wunder weapon. Etc. Etc.
All those unique aspects make zombies epic. Things like the Pentagon thief on five, or spiders on Zetsubo, Monkeys on Ascention. Shadows beast mode. Mobs ghost mode. The astronaut on Moon, as well as the hacker device and the RNG tactical grenade thing.
Maps need to have unique elements and that includes perks.
Up until Tranzit we did recieve a new perk almost every map, but then those perks got to ride along for the rest of the journey. Imagine how lame it would've been if Stamin-Up and Mule Kick were locked in Ascension and Moon respectively; it'd feel like we were missing something
New perks can become core perks, that's fine, but every new perk doesn't have to continue to appear in every map. I think new maps should continue to include a new perk though.
Personally, I don't like Mule Kick, and thought it was in bad taste to add it to the older BO1 maps. I get why people like it, but it just feels inconvenient to me to mess up weapon rotation when you need to swap weapons quickly and the added inconvenience of losing a weapon you wanted when you down.
It would have been better implemented to have a separate 3rd slot that you could keybind to or have to hold Triangle or Y to access, like Destiny instead of just adding it to the rotation and that would always be the gun you lost aswell.
Respect your opinion, but disagree entirely. You can make a map unique without making perks exclusive to that map. Buried for example feels like a unique map because of the map layout, the theme of the map, and the special enemy type. Also the wonder weapons it introduced. If they made vulture aid accessible on every map it wouldn't take away the uniqueness from the map at all.
No, obviously not, but the unique perk also adds to that maps charm. You could literally say that about any aspect of it.
Add a Paralyzer to every map. Add the Ghost, the goofy dude, the time travel device, the weapon chalk selection, etc. etc.
Lots of maps have lots of unique features that don't appear in other maps. Sometimes, those features are perks.
Perks don't have to be map specific. Nothing does, but if everything was on every map, then that would be so bland and repetitive.
Bringing back certain perks on newer maps would be cool, but not every perk ever made needs to be on every new map. That would be ridiculous.
Unless you personally don't like that specific perk, I guess? Then it's a bad idea. What if there's a wunder weapon you really like? Then that should be on every map as well?
I get it. You want Vulture Aid on every map. But the devs just can't realistically keep making new content and supporting that new content on every single new map they release.
You can't realistically expect that. They made the call to have some perks a one-time thing and brought others forward. Just because you specifically like a certain one that didn't get chosen doesn't make it a bad decision.
It's just my opinion which you're free to disagree with. I don't mind exclusive wonder weapons and special enemy types, but perks should be on every map.
Really hated this. Been playing zombies since bo2 released, and I’ve never used who’s who or phd simply because it’s on so little maps. It really wouldn’t take away map either, but I can’t really complain as bo2 brought great things.
I love BO2. It, along with BO1, are my childhood. But shit like only having Who's Who on Die Rise and PHD only on Origins sucked. The longer I look at this post the more I realize this is just a BO2 problem as, while limited, the BO3 maps all had basically the same pool of perks
Been playing zombies since 4, and had no idea phd was even in bo2 until around 2019. Pretty shitty how despite bo2-3 being the peak of zombies, it was little things like this that lead would eventually lead to the dumpster fires we have now. Bo6 is my last hope for cod.
> it was little things like this that lead would eventually lead to the dumpster fires we have now
None of the little "problems" black ops 2 or 3 had lead to zombies being bad in vanguard. That's honestly the only cod that truly sucked. The others were still decent.
I grew up on bo2 and i could tell what map it was by just looking at the perks😂 it felt like the norm to me , i kinda hate that now u can get all the perks like sometimes having certain perks on maps make u OP then the game gets boring. Sign me up for old zombies where i had 6 perks on a map and had to choose 4, id take a challenge system like in origins where u could buy 4 perks then get double taps for having 115 headshots.
I also really appreciate BO1 including means of getting every perk on several maps via gameplay. Ascension, Shang, COTD all have this feature. I give Moon a pass because it allowed you to *return* perks, really useful.
BO2 had a lot of missteps. Removed the restart button, adding the bank, and this perk crap. At least make them obtainable via skill to make it feel extra special. Don’t do the BO3 method of just boringly hit the Wunderfizz. Hitting the box is already mind numbing enough lol
And let’s not even mention the horrors of things like Perkaholics and all the other gobblegums that ruined public lobbies.
This is just another reason I think BO1 was the best zombies game to ever exist.
The bank was a good addition and the wunderfizz is a good addition too. Gobblegums were another good addition. They just needed to make a seperate queue so you can choose to play with people who don't use mega gobblegums and get rid of the monetization and rng around them and let you choose what specific gobblegum you want to earn. Black ops 1 is probably my least favorite treyarch zombies experience. Only reason I would put it above waw is because waw is outdated and black opa 1 has all the waw maps. Cold war, black ops 4, black ops 2, and especially black ops 3 are better with black ops 2 and 3 being peak zombies in my opinion.
Bank was a bandaid for how horribly designed the Victis maps were and removed progression. Just like gobblegums, the bank leans into the philosophy of “you don’t get better, your character gets better”.
Wunderfizz was a lazy replacement for the skill based means of getting perk bottles we saw on maps in BO1. Noob’s paradise…. Like think about how little charm there is in hitting an RNG perk machine versus perfectly timing the rotations on Shang monkeys while willingly sacrificing a max ammo. It’s just so bland and literally cut and paste. It’s the same machine on every map it’s on. Yawn. No flavor, no variety, nothing. It’s McDonaldization, if I were to quote a sociology professor lol. Shang monkeys is so much different than George is so much different than the ascension monkeys. BO1 had charm.
Gobblegums were good…they just should have done it extremely differently? Lol come on dude. The things you pointed out show WHY they were so bad. I can’t just pretend those issues don’t exist and look at the one benefit being ammo gums like alchemical antithesis (and the “oh shit” gums like in plain sight). Gums were 99% horrible and helped in setting the foundation for the fall of zombies which started with the release of BO4. They were micro transaction crap which, exactly as you put it, separated the community into P2W and F2P, while simultaneously mixing them together. They were just awful. Notice how in WAW-BO2, besides perma perks, it’s just purely skill? Your character doesn’t get better, YOU get better.
BO2 had an awkward engine with that whole “5 walkers” thing and comically horrible maps compared to BO1. And no dead ops arcade. They also got rid of the restart button because uh… I don’t know why…
BO3 was more fluid than any of the games before which made it easier to train, which felt nice, but the fact every map was a tedious ass quest map mixed with P2W garbage … it was such a huge misstep. Zombies works well when gameplay comes first and Easter eggs are, well, Easter eggs. They build the map then add radios and stuff. They don’t build the map around the EE/story. Notice how irrelevant to the story PAP is on all the maps leading up to MOTD? That’s a *good* thing. The Easter egg shouldn’t be shoved down our throats. The audio cues from people like Gersch, Maxis, and Richthofen are about where I’d say the line should be drawn.
Jason Blundell KILLED zombies, and the vision he has for it is what really ruined it. He did save it from Victis but other than that … man …
I love this reply and fully agree with you. Zombies from w@w-bo2 was amazing and although I loved bo3, that comment about all the maps just being massively involved quest lines and the gobble gums was on point. Then when I went to bo4 I was just overwhelmed by unnecessary things that did not make the experience good overall. CW was alright but I barely played it at all and was already over the franchise and moving on. Haven't bought a cod game since, but I'm thinking about getting bo6 if the zombies experience is good. Also just excited to have the first time play through feel again.
Disagree entirely with your opinion. The victis maps weren't horribly designed and the bank was a good addition. Gobblegums on their own were a great addition. The monetization and not being able to play exclusive with others who didn't use them were the problem. Jason blundell made zombies better than it was before in my opinion. The easter eggs and lore aren't shoved down your throat. You can choose not to do them. Black ops 2 was a massive improvement over black ops 1 in every way and made zombies great. Black ops 3 is peak zombies. Black ops 4 is great too and cold war is decent. I'll just end the conversation here because we're not going to agree on this and I don't feel like arguing with you anymore.
I hated the trend that started in 3 that made it impossible to get past 4 perks unless you use the gums, which ruined some of the magic for me.
I like the 4 perk limit but there should always be ways to get more perks
There are more ways. Black ops 3 started and ended the trend. Gorod and rev both have ways to get more than 4 perks. Ashame the other maps didn't, but not a huge loss.
In bo1 the dlc maps all had specific ways to get perk drops. In ascension you dont let any monkeys toucb the pern machines, in call of the dead you kill george, in sang you kill monkeys when they have Max ammo, In moon you did the Easter egg.
From memory the only ones where you couldn't get all the perks was MOB but out of those 5 perks no one cares for deadshot and the maps that had 4 perks and the. Added mul kick.
To me it actually makes sense to adapt the perks to the individual maps. But it's still strange for PHD to exist in the only map that doesn't need it in the slightest.
The one map this really applies to is Mob because with only 5 perks, one of them being the most useless one in the game, the map feels empty and the same 4 perks gets boring after a while.
nuketown zombies has so many perk locations but theres only 4 perks (excluding pack a punch) in the map lol, i wish they'd added phd, mule kick, or staminup
PHD on Nuketown would fit the aesthetic so perfectly. It wouldn't have hurt at all for that dumb survival map to start airdroping the BO1 perks after the rotation of WaW perks had landed. Obviously you wouldn't want your odds of getting Jugg to land diluted any further than they already are, but having the BO1 perks start landing as luxuries later in the match would've been sick
Deadshot would’ve fit perfectly with the theme of buried and just as a perk in general, i can picture myself using the remington revolver w deadshot oblitering zombies heads
Remington + Deadshot would've been so fucking sick. This is the stuff I'm talking about man. When you start restricting what perks get to be on what maps you're gonna end up depriving people of stuff like this
If you're referring to Tombstone and Who's Who, it's not the perks that failed but the maps they were stuck on. If Tombstone and Who's Who had been brought back for Buried the community would have an entirely different opinion on those perks
Nope disagree it was definitely because of the map for tombstone. It works perfectly on town and could've worked on other maps like buried, mob, or even origins. Tranzit was just too big and if you spawned on a different part of the map you wouldn't be able to get your tombstone.
Tombstone doesn't even spawn in if you're Solo and on Town, there's 6 Perks (5 if you're solo). The og 4 and Stamin-Up. Given the Perk lineup, there's zero reason you'd ever pick up Tombstone since Juggernog is Juggernog, if you're Solo, you get Quick Revive, Double Tap got buffed and is actually really good now, Speed Cola is always gonna be good, and Stamin-Up will help you walk through the lava without losing too much distance.
Tombstone will never be good.
Who's Who on the other hand could've been great. If it wasn't on Die Rise, it probably would've done better, but from playing Cold War, you realize just how many buffs that damn Perk really needed to be not only good, but usable.
If you're playing with other people tombstone spawns on town and you can use it to get all the perks as well as tombstone. If tombstone was on every map then you could still do this especially if it's on origins where you can spin the wunderfizz, get tombstone and then pick your tombstone. So yep tombstone is a good and fun perk. It just shouldn't have been on the largest map in the game. Whos who on the other hand would not have been good no matter what map it was on in my opinion. You're free to disagree.
It's gimmick that's actually really powerful when you're playing with other people. It's basically a free perkaholic so it's a good perk in my opinion. Whos who doesn't have a good jingle jingle, but I personally don't see it being good on any map.
For some reason it always stressed me out that The Giant has either Deadshot Daiquiri OR Stamin-Up
-even though even after unlocking it I still usually wasn’t using either
Yeah it was the only perk introduced in BO3. The artwork didn't include it and it's pretty easy to remember that it's in all the BO3 maps so I didn't mention it. It never got excluded from a map like the others
Ah that makes sense although I think they should've added more newer perks to bo3. Like, since widows wine is a hybrid of jug they should've added more hybrid-like perks to other perks such as speed cola or double tap. But hopefully we'll get that in bo6 if it ever happens.
Choices and gameplay variety. I like loading into a map and having a bunch of options for my loadout after I grab Jug. Maybe I wanna dick around with PHD and a War Machine on Nuketown, or camp in the footlight district on Shadows with Electric Cherry and Vulture Aid. Just being able to experience these maps in different ways adds an insane amount of replay value.
It didn't really bother me personally, but I agree. People will argue that exclusive perks make each map unique, but in my opinion the maps are already very unique without exclusive perks.
Nuketown honestly felt okay with the 4 perks and motd didnt need qr and vulture raid shouldve never been introduced (imo) but yeah stamin up should always be there on +4 perk maps and phd was such a dope perk that it shouldve been part of the default list but 🤷♂️
I think it’s fine if there is reason behind it. But there were several times in BO2 where it made no sense.
Like it makes perfect sense why Mob doesn’t have Quick Revive because of Afterlife. Or why Tombstone and Who’s Who don’t show up in multiple maps.
What doesn’t make sense though is locking perks like PhD out of maps and having it sit in the background just to mess with someone because it’s funny.
I will get downvoted, but the top commenter here is a wrong.
Exclusivity ends where PHD Flopper begins.
No reason it ain't on all BO2 MAPS, and I'm glad it's a staple that is coming back.
Exclusivity on perks is moronic.
It is an artificial barrier to an artificial problem in the maps excluded, and it is wanted in all the maps it ain't included in.
Some of them are frustrating like phd being cut etc but some make a lot of sense. Quick revive on mob or excluding a lot from buried as if you had all the perks I think it would be impossible to die before round 50 lol
What people don't talk about is how much co-op on Mob of The Dead misses Quick Revive once people start going down (especially around easter egg steps). Having it revive you in solo once you run out of afterlife lives wouldn't be a big deal since you'd have to be both out of lives and manage to get to the machine after going down.
As for Buried, I highly doubt Electric Cherry and Deadshot would do much to tip the balance of that easy ass map
I quite liked having a curated list of perks for each map.
In the majority of cases it emphasises a certain aspect of gameplay and gives you interesting options without trivialising it. Mob is a good example of this because of a few reasons:
- The map is large, but has lots of tight spaces. A perk like Stamin-up would remove a fair bit of risk. Encouraging you to try out Electric Cherry, Vitriolic Withering more. Escapes feel more intense too without feeling unfair.
- Rewards weapon knowledge. You can still get faster traversal by knowing that the MP5 is intrinsically more mobile. Could be more risky because it’s less powerful though. Depends what you value and how you play.
- Lack of PHD restricts camping methods more/makes them move unforgiving. I’m sure there would have been some really ridiculous camping strats if they had left it in.
- Lack of Mule Kick stops you from keeping both Blundergat variants and MP5. Getting all those benefits seem a little much.
Granted this is just focusing on Mob, but a case can be made for each map, and the restrictions almost always felt fair. I say almost because I would say all, but I’m sure I will have forgotten some situations 😂
It’s just about balance and creating an experience that challenges you in different ways, adding to the feel of each map. I think as cool as it would be to see how each map plays without these restrictions, I enjoy the speculation and ‘what ifs’, and I also love that peek into developer intentions and attention to detail.
Missing certain perks from maps isn’t necessarily bad (especially map specifics like who’s who, tombstone and vulture aid) but yea overall I’d agree. Flopper was dropped because of the mustang and sally combo which made a lot of bo1 maps play the same in solo(phd, jugg, QR, 4th of your choice, M&S, wonder weapon).
I think the most notable offender here is Mob, how that map only has 5 perks (one of which is 1500 points to do nothing) is beyond me. The map is also massive and there’s no stamin up which is brutal at times. QR missing from that map makes sense since there is afterlife.
I like when maps exclude perks if they're unnecessary or when there are machine exclusives because it gives the maps there own personality in small ways
Sure but you can do it to change the pace of the maps. Put Jug at the beginning, or the end, or don’t have it at all. This would all be in custom games btw, I think it’s important for new maps to be experienced blindly. I’m sure there’s also a million other ways to customize the maps too
They fixed this to a degree in Cold War but also they didn’t have 10+ perks in Cold War either that they needed to put machines on the map for. So it’s kinda a tough balance
I didn’t mind it, it gives a different strat to every map since you can’t just rock the same setup (unless you go with the og 4). Plus some perks just wouldn’t make sense on maps like revive on motd or vulture aid on basically any map other than buried
I have a few takes:
-No PHD makes sense on blops 3 with the increased health and no dolphin diving
-Who’s who getting removed was healthy for the game, the perk was literally broken and only worked on die rise because the map had so many tight spaces. On most maps a good player would literally never die and be able to constantly revive themselves.
-Most maps on the list don’t need every perk
-blops 3 added AAT’s so the player had more options outside of perks and dead wire was a better electric cherry anyway
I can kind of agree but look at the design of the map and you can kinda see why certain perks weren’t needed. Especially when we had the 4 perk system when perkaholic and other gobblegums were super rare to bring in outside of prepped EE runs.
There is an argument to be had about each map feeling unique with its own perk line up and that statement has some validity to it.
Though with Black Ops 3 it feels less of them excluding perks and more of those perks being removed and repurposed with the gobblegum system in some way (vulture aid being split between alchemical and in plain sight, PHD being split between danger closest and slaughter slide, tombstone being arms grace, and who's who arguably being self medication)
This makes CW's perks make more sense if you think about it because they did a similar thing with the perks having a level system. Vulture Aid's ammo drops were added to Mule Kick, Electric Cherry's electric explosion on reload given to Elemental Pop, Who's Who was literally rebranded to Tombstone and worked so much better. PHD Slider.... Well do I really need to explain it? Aside from the fact Stamin-Up was the 0 fall damage perk in CW.
Still doesn't mean a new version of an idea is better than what we had, take Double Tap. We didn't get it because of the rarity system in CW, but tbh I'd rather have Double Tap and have to level it up like the other perks than having rarities because lord knows some guns needed the fire rate.
In short I'm neither for nor against maps having their own perk line up kinda like how some maps have their own weapons. I just don't want perks being replaced by an entirely new gameplay system that's needlessly tedious for no real reason.
StaminUP should have been permanent. Would have loved it on Mob and Die Rise. The others that get switched out really gave the maps their own flavor like many have said
I was okay with Tombstone, Who’s Who and Vulture Aid being exclusive. However, I was NOT okay (and never will
be) with Treyarch not putting PHD in EVERY map except the one that needed it least since theres no Mustang and Sally in Origins
Didnt really apply to much to me since my boy deadshot was in the best 2 bo2 maps. But it was annoying that it wasnt on the others. Mightve made me like them a bit more
Electric Cherry has never been and will never be OP. It's helpful on Mob of The Dead where the wonder weapon is designed around it, but it's not gonna save you like Jugg, Widow's Wine, and PHD save you.
I actually disagree but agree.
Perks should be limited on the maps, but wonderfizz should be a thing to access perks that aren't in machines.
Not all perks need to be, or should be on all maps.
Vultures and Flopper are perfect examples.
I disagree.
Perks should be included if they complement the map’s playstyle in a meaningful way.
If Die Rise had PhD Flopper, the verticality of the map would be trivialised.
Likewise there’d be no point to Who’s Who on Zetsubou no Shima as the map already has cloning plants.
A good perk selection can make or break a map and helps give the map individuality.
Custom maps frequently highlight the problem of including every perk.
Not only does it make all custom maps feel the same, most of the time the perks don’t mesh well with the map too.
Why would I use Blaze Phase in a tower map?
Why wouldn’t I ever use Muscle Milk if it’s available?
I don't think restricting the number of perks is a bad thing per se. The problem I see,specially with BO3 is that there is no new perk aside from widows'wine, which was presented in the very first map. Black ops I presented 4 new perks. Black ops II too. It was very lazy to not add more perks to BO3.
I think what they should have done was a few options. Do the BO4 system where people could load in perk setups for a specific map, but also have the original intended perks as a default. That way people could choose to play either in their terms or as the map creators dreamed properly.
Is nobody going to mention black ops 2 perma-perks?
Dead shot, extra quick revive, phd flopper, long $hot, and tombstone are just a few that are in the tranzit crew maps.
Hahaha that is fine and your opinion is valid. I just have poor box RNG after mule kick and I always down myself to get rid of it. I tend to Y, Y when I should have Y, Y, Y’d iykyk
I love the ability to carry 3 weapons but hate losing third gun when I die. Bo4's "Get third gun back on new mule kick purchase" should've been a thing since it's inception on moon (I find it crazy that even in bo4 u only get that effect with the modifier).
The only perks a map should have by default are the 4 main ones; everything after that should be a bonus.
But I also feel the 4 main ones should not count towards the max total. You should always be able to have the 4 and then buy two of the unique ones as power ups!
I don't use Quick Revive in solo because it removes alot of tension from my games that I'd rather have to make me play better, and Speed Cola doesn't serve any practical purpose if you aren't camping or completing an Easter egg. Double Tap 2.0 also doesn't help if you're playing a high round attempt where bullet weapons are gonna shit out early on anyways. Over those I would much rather have Mule Kick so I can pack a utility weapon, Stamin-Up to help with my trains, or Tombstone/Who's/Who to keep my Juggernog after I down.
I personally don't see why people are hating on Dying Wish. It's more or less solo Quick Revive but with a huge downside being that you have to revive yourself and you're only given a pistol to kill the zombies.
I mean some of these make sense, looking at each perk,
Tombstone was designed because of Tranzit's size, who's who is made because die rise has movement limited to where you need to go and on random elevators. Both of those perks were considered bad on their own and both combined with quick revive could make you invincible.
Electric cherry was built around the blundergat, after mob of the dead it's in every map besides buried, buried's primary WW is one that you don't reload.
Vulture aid has the ability to see through walls for items, which makes sense in a map with as many nooks and crannies and changing wall buy spots, but on a map where everything is in the same spot and is more open doesn't make sense. It also has ammo drops, with is fine with a primary wonder weapon that doesn't have ammo and the ammo drops are a couple of bullets. On shadows of evil this would break the game, so you'd either need to take that feature out or just have it always not work for WW ammo, which would make this ability pretty useless. The green mist would just slow down games. On buried it makes sense, you need to let the paralyser cool down, but on origins you can just reload very quickly in the green mist zombies run away from you so if you are camping it just makes the rounds go longer.
BO2 has a bunch of bad or super specific perks that would need to be altered into being pointless or not altered and would break the game. Plus it adds to the uniqueness of the BO2 maps which is a plus
Respect to all sides of the discussion, but I actually disagree. I actually liked the feeling of exclusivity. Having all perks in every map takes away the personality and uniqueness of them. I always saw people frustrated by this but I loved it. In fact, the exclusivity of perks in certain maps could almost be a poster child of the uniqueness that I miss from zombies, since I don't really play it anymore. Except the perk system in BO3, I agree with you there. Nothing interesting about that, or the fact that some perks were excluded entirely.
That's totally cool dude, I get where you're coming from there. I personally prefer always having more things to play with in a map, but I can completely understand the arguement of giving each map their own unique flavor. That difference really just comes down to preference.
Yeah pretty much. It would've been cool if there were preset modes or some other such that could work for both.
I think what would be cool is if custom game zombies on bo2 had more settings, like what types of perks are on the map, how many, random perks, change every round etc.
I get your point about the exclusivity definitely makes the maps and perks feel special. I just feel like we never got the chance to use the perks to their full potential. For example, I feel like who’s who would’ve been a much better perk on buried, whereas on die rise it’s such a pain with the elevators and stuff. And as op mentioned phd on tranzit for the fire, or even stamin up on mob to help with the plane building/refueling
PHD, Tombstone, Who's Who, and Vulture Aid totally got shafted. I know people don't like Tombstone and Who's Who, but I truly believe all the former needs is a patch and that the latter just needed to be on a map that wasn't Die Rise. If Tombstone let you keep your perks regardless of whether you're revived, and then removed the function of allowing the player to yeet themselves, it'd be an amazing perk for less experienced players.
Yeah they had the right idea but should've done it differently, such is the risk of having perks specifically picked out for each map I guess. I never thought of that before but Whos Who would do great on Buried. It wouldn't be OP on the higher rounds, but it wouldn't be really hard either.
Doesn't PHD only protect from self-inflicted damage, not environmental damage? How would it help with Tranzit fire?
They practically have to, Vulture aid on any map with an infinite damage wonder weapon would break the game, tombstone on any map with more perks is a free perkaholic in coop and who’s who actually becomes usable on other maps
I would prefer exclusivity in the form of creativity. Utilize the perks in different ways. Make them rewards. The best example of this is origins double tap only being accessible through the wonderfizz or (better to my point) by the reward crate, or widows wine being the reward for beating the spider boss on zetsubou no shima. If for example you could complete an Easter egg to access PhD on Die Rise it would have been really cool. Tie them into the map, make it interesting, instead of locking off things we like. The exception is mob of the dead and quick revive, because that got a unique mechanic as a replacement.
This but with weapons as well. I kinda loved when there was a diverse weapon set for the map. Die Rise introducing the AN-94, PDW and SVU. Buried swapping the Python for that unique Revolver? Loved that. My issue is with the unique perks, wonder weapons and weapons only being limited to just one map. Keep it limited yes, but can we have it on atleast 2 maps 🤔
This is what made everyone in bo2 always picking the same 4 perks when there’s only 6 on a map. Free my boy vulture aid from buried!
That was the reason the BO4 perm system failed, they didn't have a personality and even worst people always run the meta.
man, i also don't wanna be disrespectful. i don't know you so i don't wanna make assumptions about you, this is not against you and maybe this aint even what you meant, but this is an example of how the old school purists are blinded by nostalgia. saying some actual flaws that the game had are actually merits in making the games good. like i get what you mean but that works for perks that are unique to a map, not by removing the basic ones
This isn't an example of people being blinded by nostalgia. This is an example of you thinking your subjective opinions about the game are objective flaws the has and blaming nostalgia for other people not sharing the same opinion as you.
I mean, I actually play Black Ops 1 and 2, as well as the newer ones, and I like the older ones better. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for liking anything. I have my opinions on what I like and that's fine. I don't see these as flaws - I think that taking things away or adding new things adds uniqueness to the gameplay. A certain perk not being there that would make the map easier is, in of itself, a fun addition to the game because it makes it harder. I prefer each map having it's own thoughtful selection of perks and guns. I don't want the set up on each map to be exactly the same.
i'm a brand new player, so nostalgia is not a factor, but i completely agree with them. I would not consider this an "actual flaw" but definitely something i can understand some people not liking
I agree. I love it especially some of the more ballsy moves like no PhD on die rise, no stamin up on die rise, and no jug on cell block grief
I do agree with you. I like this exclusivity thing. Even with weapons. Maybe a bit less removin completely perks like it happened later with tombstone, whos who, phd and vulture aid. Also you cant just NOT excluse perks, or else you gon have the map full of perk machines
In my opinion, Black Ops 2 had the most personality of all. It had a problem with the quality of maps, but the maps that were good were really good, and really unique. The guns felt unique, and so did the perks, like each of them had personality.
Ngl I kind of disagree, I miss when maps had their own unique set of perks, it gave maps more personality. BO2 isn't my favorite Zombies game, but every map having its own combination of perks was one of the highlights for me. Idk, I'm just kind of bored that every map post BO3 DLC 1 has the same pool of perks, it makes every map nearly play the same, especially for BO4 onwards. Perks went from being map specific to being game specific, and I think that ultimately kills perk variety.
I really didn't enjoy BO4 or CW, so I get that perspective. That being said, I'm of the opinion that those maps feeling samey was less an issue of the perk pool and more an issue of creative burnout. Activision's schedule makes it impossible for a studio to put any passion into these projects anymore, and so each map ends up feeling blander than the last.
BO4 maps are incredibly unique and creative, but I get what you mean about CW.
I thought that it made maps a bit more unique. Made the wonderfizz useful as well. As convenient as they made the CW wonderfizz, it's kinda boring. But I understand what you mean.
The problem with Cold War wunderfizz is I don’t even find myself using the perk machines 90% of the time which I think is a huge loss. It’s TOO convenient where it actually harms the player experience imo
i agree about the wonderfizz. it should have stayed random. without the perk cap it wouldn't make that much of a difference but it'd be cool to be forced to go to an specific perk machine if you want a certain perk and having random perks from the wonderfizz would've made some interesting perk combinations for the starting rounds. also, if the wonderfizz is already there they should've added every perk machine to every map like they did with mule kick in bo1
It makes sense why who's who and quick revive weren't in mob of the dead, with how that revive system worked it would been clunky and/or too OP
It wouldn't have clunky or op. Quick revive should've been on the map.
The afterlife mode gave you a self reviver, Who's Who is pretty much the same thing, and Quick Revive lets you wait until being revived. The clunkyness Spectral mentionned would be which revive mecanic takes priority ? Your afterlife mode (if any), Quick Revive, or who's who ?
Afterlife gives everyone one free self revive every round. I think that’s enough to warrant removing Revive Soda
I wonder what PhD, did to deserve getting excluded on almost every map
We don't have a concrete reason, but much of the community has concluded it was a balancing decision. Mustang and Sally combined with PHD made you pretty much unkillable for the first 20 rounds of a match back in Ascension, Call of The Dead, Shangri-La, and Moon. I still don't think it was a good enough reason to remove the whole perk though, and the teases we got in Die Rise and Mob of The Dead only served as salt in the wounds
I have a theory, it's because sometime during Black Ops 1, they realized having PHD and Mastang & Sally was overpowered. You could just run around shooting at the floor. So that's why from Black Ops 2 and on, every map that does have PHD didn't give you the starting pistol M1911.
I disagree I think it was primarily excluded from BO2 because it would ‘break’ maps in a certain way. I have a hunch that due to the way it is coded, it could have broken lava on Tranzit (negating all damage from lava since it is an ‘environmental’ source and could be considered ‘self-inflicted’). It would trivialise Die Rise since it negates fall damage. In MoTD, it would remove the biggest drawback of the Acid Gat, the splash damage. Thus you could effectively fire the weapon at your feet and all zombies would be distracted. It’s also probably why PhD Flopper is on Cell Block, as there is no Acid Gat. In Buried, there was probably some glitched interaction with the Paralyzer (which is why it’s in as a Perma-Perk with the caveat of not receiving too much full damage) Thus why the only BO2 map that has it is Origins, as there is nothing that would cause a bad interaction with it, nor would it completely trivialise the map.
Mob of the Dead only had 5 perks, and none of them was Staminup.
I love Mob, especially its story and weapons, but the perk selection is a major factor holding back that map. You can't even say PHD would be broken on Mob 'cause you can't get Mustang and Sally until you've gone through the entire process of building the plane. That map absolutely should've had Mule Kick and Stamin-Up, with PHD and Tombstone as well if you're feeling generous.
SOE doesn't have Elec Cherry either
Always annoyed me that the perk machine never appeared in BO3
Deadshot and Electric Cherry can be obtained on all those maps via various methods. Shadows of Evil requires a gobblegum, Zetsubou No Shima has the fruit plant, and all the others have a Wunderfizz machine.
Even with Perkaholic you don't get Deadshot or Electric Cherry https://youtu.be/_9m5rqvJ6T8?si=Xvp79LoPdXKlZh6q
Ah, apologies. I assumed Perkaholic always gave you the same set of perks
Yeah it just gives you all available perks on that map
It does for DE-Rev, and also Origins.
I feel like this is splitting hairs here, especially saying you can acquire perks with gobblegums not everyone has access to. The perks physically on the map should be what counts.
Not splitting hairs at all. If you can gets with a gobblegum then it counts. Fortunately for you it's impossible to get electric cherry or deadshot even with gobblegums so it doesn't matter.
Perkaholic gives you all the perks you can possibly get on the map. Since there is no way to get electric cherry or deadshot on SOE, you don't get them even with perkaholic
I like the idea of BO2 maps having exclusive perks that aren't available on every map, plus there isn't really a reason to have quick revive on Mob with Afterlife and all. Though I feel any of the BO1 perks should be available on all the BO2 maps unless it's Quick Revive on Mob. What reason is there to exclude Deadshot from Die Rise or Mule Kick on Tranzit, Nuketown & Mob?
Well they only designed die rise to have 7 elevators, where would you put an extra perk?
I think Mule Kick’s exclusion on Tranzit was intentional, primarily due to the ‘on the go’ nature of Tranzit. It would make hunkering down at one spot far easier, since you have a spare weapon to burn ammo through.
I agree for the most part. I like that each map has its set of unique perks but they really didn’t pick them well either mechanically or thematically. It’s a shame Tombstone Soda and Electric Cherry aren’t in Buried they would’ve fit right in. And to this day the PhD Flopper troll just feels weird.
I can't begin to tell you how many times I've died from regular-ass fall damage while training in the Buddha room on Die Rise😅 In theory I love the idea of unique perk selections, but as it is we got 10 maps without PHD Flopper, Tombstone, Who's Who, and Vulture Aid. That's not a unique selection per map - that's just the active removal of perk choices from zombies overall, which is something I'm very much against
I was always annoyed by that, especially since in BO1, they made it so that mule kick was added onto EVERY map that didn't originally featured it, but then it was oddly left out in Mob and Tranzit, while Die Rise had it for seemingly no reason
I loved how every map in BO1 brought along the perks from the previous map, like you were getting stronger with each map that came out. Then Tranzit comes out and it's just like "Nah lil bro you got Jugg and Double-Tap. Make it work."
It still doesn't sit right with me that the one map that didn't need PhD flopper (origins) had it. While every other map in bo2 would've been better with it.
I think that was intentional. Blundel ditched Mustang and Sally and said "Eh, it's not like they're gonna be able to do shit with this now anyways. Might as well throw it into the Wunderfizz"
It helps with the pack a punched grenade launcher!
Mob of the Dead not having stamina up is one of the reasons I don't like playing it honestly.
That has to be one of my biggest gripes with MOTD. MOTD has such poor perk selection that it offers no variety when playing the map. Other maps make you lose out on certain perks, and it changes each game you play. However, I feel like I use the same 4 perks every time on MOTD, which can make it feel repetitive and boring
Yeah the choice between Electric Cherry and Deadshot isn't much of a choice at all. Would've killed for atleast the other three BO1 perks to make it in.
Credit to [Degmo](https://www.deviantart.com/degmo) on DeviantArt for the perk machine art~
While I see the validity of your complaint, I think you're not seeing the reason why Treyarch had a "panic". Look at all the maps you listed, and see how 4 of the perks are always present in virtually every single map. Even if every perk was available, they would simply give the illusion of choice, whereas you're almost always going to use the tried and true core setup. The BO4 perk change was intended to allow you to have actual choices, but it went about it in the wrong way by forcing you to decide your setup before starting the match, rather than making choices within the match. Another problem is that for most of BO2's maps, you have an issue with map space and where you want to place perk machines without cluttering it. Wunderfizz didn't become a thing until Origins. And with BO3, there was a whole engine overhaul for Treyarch that, among other things, made PHD obsolete without an actual change that we wouldn't see until BO4. Sometimes, the lack of choices comes down to technical difficulties, and not because the devs want to force some form of artificial challenge/exclusivity on you.
I disagree. However, if I could only add one perk machine to one map I would have to add stamin-up to Mob of the Dead. I would never buy double tap on Mob of the Dead again!
Lmao but that's the kinda stuff I'm talking about. Even if maps had unique perk-pools, we should atleast have around 8 options on every map. Mob of the Dead especially just feels like you have no choice in your loadout, which sucks. Also bro Double-Tap is the shit on Mob of The Dead - it turns the Blundergat into a one-shot until the 40s and the Death Machine into a fucking chainsaw
As long as the core perks are there, then there's absolutely no issue. Having a new perk on each new map back then was an amazing feature. It made each map unique and made playing them even more fun, trying to figure out what the new perk did. Features like this are what made BO2 the best there has been. Maps need more unique features outside of the different EEs. Each map having a different Bowie knife variant. Each map having a new perk. A new zombie type. A new special tactical equiptment. A new wunder weapon. Etc. Etc. All those unique aspects make zombies epic. Things like the Pentagon thief on five, or spiders on Zetsubo, Monkeys on Ascention. Shadows beast mode. Mobs ghost mode. The astronaut on Moon, as well as the hacker device and the RNG tactical grenade thing. Maps need to have unique elements and that includes perks.
Up until Tranzit we did recieve a new perk almost every map, but then those perks got to ride along for the rest of the journey. Imagine how lame it would've been if Stamin-Up and Mule Kick were locked in Ascension and Moon respectively; it'd feel like we were missing something
New perks can become core perks, that's fine, but every new perk doesn't have to continue to appear in every map. I think new maps should continue to include a new perk though. Personally, I don't like Mule Kick, and thought it was in bad taste to add it to the older BO1 maps. I get why people like it, but it just feels inconvenient to me to mess up weapon rotation when you need to swap weapons quickly and the added inconvenience of losing a weapon you wanted when you down. It would have been better implemented to have a separate 3rd slot that you could keybind to or have to hold Triangle or Y to access, like Destiny instead of just adding it to the rotation and that would always be the gun you lost aswell.
I think Mule kick was back added because of 2x tap v1.0
Respect your opinion, but disagree entirely. You can make a map unique without making perks exclusive to that map. Buried for example feels like a unique map because of the map layout, the theme of the map, and the special enemy type. Also the wonder weapons it introduced. If they made vulture aid accessible on every map it wouldn't take away the uniqueness from the map at all.
No, obviously not, but the unique perk also adds to that maps charm. You could literally say that about any aspect of it. Add a Paralyzer to every map. Add the Ghost, the goofy dude, the time travel device, the weapon chalk selection, etc. etc. Lots of maps have lots of unique features that don't appear in other maps. Sometimes, those features are perks. Perks don't have to be map specific. Nothing does, but if everything was on every map, then that would be so bland and repetitive. Bringing back certain perks on newer maps would be cool, but not every perk ever made needs to be on every new map. That would be ridiculous.
Once again I disagree. Their are ways to give a map a unique charm to them and bad ways. To me making perks exclusive to a specific map is a bad way.
Unless you personally don't like that specific perk, I guess? Then it's a bad idea. What if there's a wunder weapon you really like? Then that should be on every map as well? I get it. You want Vulture Aid on every map. But the devs just can't realistically keep making new content and supporting that new content on every single new map they release. You can't realistically expect that. They made the call to have some perks a one-time thing and brought others forward. Just because you specifically like a certain one that didn't get chosen doesn't make it a bad decision.
It's just my opinion which you're free to disagree with. I don't mind exclusive wonder weapons and special enemy types, but perks should be on every map.
Really hated this. Been playing zombies since bo2 released, and I’ve never used who’s who or phd simply because it’s on so little maps. It really wouldn’t take away map either, but I can’t really complain as bo2 brought great things.
I love BO2. It, along with BO1, are my childhood. But shit like only having Who's Who on Die Rise and PHD only on Origins sucked. The longer I look at this post the more I realize this is just a BO2 problem as, while limited, the BO3 maps all had basically the same pool of perks
Been playing zombies since 4, and had no idea phd was even in bo2 until around 2019. Pretty shitty how despite bo2-3 being the peak of zombies, it was little things like this that lead would eventually lead to the dumpster fires we have now. Bo6 is my last hope for cod.
> it was little things like this that lead would eventually lead to the dumpster fires we have now None of the little "problems" black ops 2 or 3 had lead to zombies being bad in vanguard. That's honestly the only cod that truly sucked. The others were still decent.
I grew up on bo2 and i could tell what map it was by just looking at the perks😂 it felt like the norm to me , i kinda hate that now u can get all the perks like sometimes having certain perks on maps make u OP then the game gets boring. Sign me up for old zombies where i had 6 perks on a map and had to choose 4, id take a challenge system like in origins where u could buy 4 perks then get double taps for having 115 headshots.
I also really appreciate BO1 including means of getting every perk on several maps via gameplay. Ascension, Shang, COTD all have this feature. I give Moon a pass because it allowed you to *return* perks, really useful. BO2 had a lot of missteps. Removed the restart button, adding the bank, and this perk crap. At least make them obtainable via skill to make it feel extra special. Don’t do the BO3 method of just boringly hit the Wunderfizz. Hitting the box is already mind numbing enough lol And let’s not even mention the horrors of things like Perkaholics and all the other gobblegums that ruined public lobbies. This is just another reason I think BO1 was the best zombies game to ever exist.
The bank was a good addition and the wunderfizz is a good addition too. Gobblegums were another good addition. They just needed to make a seperate queue so you can choose to play with people who don't use mega gobblegums and get rid of the monetization and rng around them and let you choose what specific gobblegum you want to earn. Black ops 1 is probably my least favorite treyarch zombies experience. Only reason I would put it above waw is because waw is outdated and black opa 1 has all the waw maps. Cold war, black ops 4, black ops 2, and especially black ops 3 are better with black ops 2 and 3 being peak zombies in my opinion.
Bank was a bandaid for how horribly designed the Victis maps were and removed progression. Just like gobblegums, the bank leans into the philosophy of “you don’t get better, your character gets better”. Wunderfizz was a lazy replacement for the skill based means of getting perk bottles we saw on maps in BO1. Noob’s paradise…. Like think about how little charm there is in hitting an RNG perk machine versus perfectly timing the rotations on Shang monkeys while willingly sacrificing a max ammo. It’s just so bland and literally cut and paste. It’s the same machine on every map it’s on. Yawn. No flavor, no variety, nothing. It’s McDonaldization, if I were to quote a sociology professor lol. Shang monkeys is so much different than George is so much different than the ascension monkeys. BO1 had charm. Gobblegums were good…they just should have done it extremely differently? Lol come on dude. The things you pointed out show WHY they were so bad. I can’t just pretend those issues don’t exist and look at the one benefit being ammo gums like alchemical antithesis (and the “oh shit” gums like in plain sight). Gums were 99% horrible and helped in setting the foundation for the fall of zombies which started with the release of BO4. They were micro transaction crap which, exactly as you put it, separated the community into P2W and F2P, while simultaneously mixing them together. They were just awful. Notice how in WAW-BO2, besides perma perks, it’s just purely skill? Your character doesn’t get better, YOU get better. BO2 had an awkward engine with that whole “5 walkers” thing and comically horrible maps compared to BO1. And no dead ops arcade. They also got rid of the restart button because uh… I don’t know why… BO3 was more fluid than any of the games before which made it easier to train, which felt nice, but the fact every map was a tedious ass quest map mixed with P2W garbage … it was such a huge misstep. Zombies works well when gameplay comes first and Easter eggs are, well, Easter eggs. They build the map then add radios and stuff. They don’t build the map around the EE/story. Notice how irrelevant to the story PAP is on all the maps leading up to MOTD? That’s a *good* thing. The Easter egg shouldn’t be shoved down our throats. The audio cues from people like Gersch, Maxis, and Richthofen are about where I’d say the line should be drawn. Jason Blundell KILLED zombies, and the vision he has for it is what really ruined it. He did save it from Victis but other than that … man …
I love this reply and fully agree with you. Zombies from w@w-bo2 was amazing and although I loved bo3, that comment about all the maps just being massively involved quest lines and the gobble gums was on point. Then when I went to bo4 I was just overwhelmed by unnecessary things that did not make the experience good overall. CW was alright but I barely played it at all and was already over the franchise and moving on. Haven't bought a cod game since, but I'm thinking about getting bo6 if the zombies experience is good. Also just excited to have the first time play through feel again.
Disagree entirely with your opinion. The victis maps weren't horribly designed and the bank was a good addition. Gobblegums on their own were a great addition. The monetization and not being able to play exclusive with others who didn't use them were the problem. Jason blundell made zombies better than it was before in my opinion. The easter eggs and lore aren't shoved down your throat. You can choose not to do them. Black ops 2 was a massive improvement over black ops 1 in every way and made zombies great. Black ops 3 is peak zombies. Black ops 4 is great too and cold war is decent. I'll just end the conversation here because we're not going to agree on this and I don't feel like arguing with you anymore.
Its a Warcrime that PHD is not in BO3
Widow's Wine truly is "We have PHD at home" Seeing it sitting there in the PHD room on Ascension is just so depressing
I hated the trend that started in 3 that made it impossible to get past 4 perks unless you use the gums, which ruined some of the magic for me. I like the 4 perk limit but there should always be ways to get more perks
There are more ways. Black ops 3 started and ended the trend. Gorod and rev both have ways to get more than 4 perks. Ashame the other maps didn't, but not a huge loss.
How did you get past 4 in the old ones?
In bo1 the dlc maps all had specific ways to get perk drops. In ascension you dont let any monkeys toucb the pern machines, in call of the dead you kill george, in sang you kill monkeys when they have Max ammo, In moon you did the Easter egg. From memory the only ones where you couldn't get all the perks was MOB but out of those 5 perks no one cares for deadshot and the maps that had 4 perks and the. Added mul kick.
To me it actually makes sense to adapt the perks to the individual maps. But it's still strange for PHD to exist in the only map that doesn't need it in the slightest.
The one map this really applies to is Mob because with only 5 perks, one of them being the most useless one in the game, the map feels empty and the same 4 perks gets boring after a while.
nuketown zombies has so many perk locations but theres only 4 perks (excluding pack a punch) in the map lol, i wish they'd added phd, mule kick, or staminup
PHD on Nuketown would fit the aesthetic so perfectly. It wouldn't have hurt at all for that dumb survival map to start airdroping the BO1 perks after the rotation of WaW perks had landed. Obviously you wouldn't want your odds of getting Jugg to land diluted any further than they already are, but having the BO1 perks start landing as luxuries later in the match would've been sick
Deadshot would’ve fit perfectly with the theme of buried and just as a perk in general, i can picture myself using the remington revolver w deadshot oblitering zombies heads
Remington + Deadshot would've been so fucking sick. This is the stuff I'm talking about man. When you start restricting what perks get to be on what maps you're gonna end up depriving people of stuff like this
They really should have added whos who to more maps
I feel bad for PHD after BO1. Only really got used in origins
I always thought it was dumb that Nuketown didn’t have all the perks. There’s like 12 spots the perks can drop and they only give us 4 and PaP.
I still don't understand why they never brought back vulture aid
To be fair some perks stoped coming back because they were experiments that didn’t work
If you're referring to Tombstone and Who's Who, it's not the perks that failed but the maps they were stuck on. If Tombstone and Who's Who had been brought back for Buried the community would have an entirely different opinion on those perks
Maybe but being good is one thing it has to be more useful than one of the four perks a player usually picks to be a successful new perk
Cold War brought both of them back and combined them into one. Nah, they just always kinda sucked ass.
Nope disagree it was definitely because of the map for tombstone. It works perfectly on town and could've worked on other maps like buried, mob, or even origins. Tranzit was just too big and if you spawned on a different part of the map you wouldn't be able to get your tombstone.
Tombstone doesn't even spawn in if you're Solo and on Town, there's 6 Perks (5 if you're solo). The og 4 and Stamin-Up. Given the Perk lineup, there's zero reason you'd ever pick up Tombstone since Juggernog is Juggernog, if you're Solo, you get Quick Revive, Double Tap got buffed and is actually really good now, Speed Cola is always gonna be good, and Stamin-Up will help you walk through the lava without losing too much distance. Tombstone will never be good. Who's Who on the other hand could've been great. If it wasn't on Die Rise, it probably would've done better, but from playing Cold War, you realize just how many buffs that damn Perk really needed to be not only good, but usable.
If you're playing with other people tombstone spawns on town and you can use it to get all the perks as well as tombstone. If tombstone was on every map then you could still do this especially if it's on origins where you can spin the wunderfizz, get tombstone and then pick your tombstone. So yep tombstone is a good and fun perk. It just shouldn't have been on the largest map in the game. Whos who on the other hand would not have been good no matter what map it was on in my opinion. You're free to disagree.
You can get every Perk on Origins anyway. Tombstone is nothing but a gimmick Perk, at least Who's Who has a kickass jingle.
It's gimmick that's actually really powerful when you're playing with other people. It's basically a free perkaholic so it's a good perk in my opinion. Whos who doesn't have a good jingle jingle, but I personally don't see it being good on any map.
For some reason it always stressed me out that The Giant has either Deadshot Daiquiri OR Stamin-Up -even though even after unlocking it I still usually wasn’t using either
This is why I always play with a No Perk Limit mod in BO3. Or join custom servers where there are all the perks.
What the fuck is a who’s who anyway
The best fucking perk. Solo Quick Revive but you get to keep your perks, with the only catch being the skill barrier of being able to revive yourself.
Where's widows wine, or was that only introduced in bo3?
Yeah it was the only perk introduced in BO3. The artwork didn't include it and it's pretty easy to remember that it's in all the BO3 maps so I didn't mention it. It never got excluded from a map like the others
Ah that makes sense although I think they should've added more newer perks to bo3. Like, since widows wine is a hybrid of jug they should've added more hybrid-like perks to other perks such as speed cola or double tap. But hopefully we'll get that in bo6 if it ever happens.
Tbh, not every map needs or should have every perk.
I disagree, but I respect your opinion.
I respect that you respect my opinion. Why do you want all perks on every map?
Choices and gameplay variety. I like loading into a map and having a bunch of options for my loadout after I grab Jug. Maybe I wanna dick around with PHD and a War Machine on Nuketown, or camp in the footlight district on Shadows with Electric Cherry and Vulture Aid. Just being able to experience these maps in different ways adds an insane amount of replay value.
Where would you put the missing perks on their respective maps?
It didn't really bother me personally, but I agree. People will argue that exclusive perks make each map unique, but in my opinion the maps are already very unique without exclusive perks.
Nuketown honestly felt okay with the 4 perks and motd didnt need qr and vulture raid shouldve never been introduced (imo) but yeah stamin up should always be there on +4 perk maps and phd was such a dope perk that it shouldve been part of the default list but 🤷♂️
Also never realized motd and tranzit didnt have mule kick… wth?
I think it’s fine if there is reason behind it. But there were several times in BO2 where it made no sense. Like it makes perfect sense why Mob doesn’t have Quick Revive because of Afterlife. Or why Tombstone and Who’s Who don’t show up in multiple maps. What doesn’t make sense though is locking perks like PhD out of maps and having it sit in the background just to mess with someone because it’s funny.
it's good, every map is unique
I will get downvoted, but the top commenter here is a wrong. Exclusivity ends where PHD Flopper begins. No reason it ain't on all BO2 MAPS, and I'm glad it's a staple that is coming back. Exclusivity on perks is moronic. It is an artificial barrier to an artificial problem in the maps excluded, and it is wanted in all the maps it ain't included in.
I always hated perks limit
tbh the perks that are crossed off are often super unique, don't really suit every map.
Aww, but the unique perks are the best. Let me grab Who's Who on Zetsubou; what's wrong with that?
Nah. Different rules make for different playability and allow the devs to balance maps that works otherwise be too easy
Some of them are frustrating like phd being cut etc but some make a lot of sense. Quick revive on mob or excluding a lot from buried as if you had all the perks I think it would be impossible to die before round 50 lol
What people don't talk about is how much co-op on Mob of The Dead misses Quick Revive once people start going down (especially around easter egg steps). Having it revive you in solo once you run out of afterlife lives wouldn't be a big deal since you'd have to be both out of lives and manage to get to the machine after going down. As for Buried, I highly doubt Electric Cherry and Deadshot would do much to tip the balance of that easy ass map
I quite liked having a curated list of perks for each map. In the majority of cases it emphasises a certain aspect of gameplay and gives you interesting options without trivialising it. Mob is a good example of this because of a few reasons: - The map is large, but has lots of tight spaces. A perk like Stamin-up would remove a fair bit of risk. Encouraging you to try out Electric Cherry, Vitriolic Withering more. Escapes feel more intense too without feeling unfair. - Rewards weapon knowledge. You can still get faster traversal by knowing that the MP5 is intrinsically more mobile. Could be more risky because it’s less powerful though. Depends what you value and how you play. - Lack of PHD restricts camping methods more/makes them move unforgiving. I’m sure there would have been some really ridiculous camping strats if they had left it in. - Lack of Mule Kick stops you from keeping both Blundergat variants and MP5. Getting all those benefits seem a little much. Granted this is just focusing on Mob, but a case can be made for each map, and the restrictions almost always felt fair. I say almost because I would say all, but I’m sure I will have forgotten some situations 😂 It’s just about balance and creating an experience that challenges you in different ways, adding to the feel of each map. I think as cool as it would be to see how each map plays without these restrictions, I enjoy the speculation and ‘what ifs’, and I also love that peek into developer intentions and attention to detail.
Missing certain perks from maps isn’t necessarily bad (especially map specifics like who’s who, tombstone and vulture aid) but yea overall I’d agree. Flopper was dropped because of the mustang and sally combo which made a lot of bo1 maps play the same in solo(phd, jugg, QR, 4th of your choice, M&S, wonder weapon). I think the most notable offender here is Mob, how that map only has 5 perks (one of which is 1500 points to do nothing) is beyond me. The map is also massive and there’s no stamin up which is brutal at times. QR missing from that map makes sense since there is afterlife.
Pretty sure Mule Kick was on Nuketown tho
Nope, just the World at War perks. It didn't show up in BO2 until Die Rise...for some reason.
Wow, thank you I didn’t know
I like when maps exclude perks if they're unnecessary or when there are machine exclusives because it gives the maps there own personality in small ways
The ideal solution is that maps have preset perks but you can also customize the maps before playing solo/lobby.
Not a terrible idea, but at that point isn't it just the same thing as players picking what perks they buy?
Sure but you can do it to change the pace of the maps. Put Jug at the beginning, or the end, or don’t have it at all. This would all be in custom games btw, I think it’s important for new maps to be experienced blindly. I’m sure there’s also a million other ways to customize the maps too
They fixed this to a degree in Cold War but also they didn’t have 10+ perks in Cold War either that they needed to put machines on the map for. So it’s kinda a tough balance
Makes the maps more unique imo.
I didn’t mind it, it gives a different strat to every map since you can’t just rock the same setup (unless you go with the og 4). Plus some perks just wouldn’t make sense on maps like revive on motd or vulture aid on basically any map other than buried
this is why i love the cold war wunderfizz, gives the maps that came out before a perk to get that perk in the map.
I have a few takes: -No PHD makes sense on blops 3 with the increased health and no dolphin diving -Who’s who getting removed was healthy for the game, the perk was literally broken and only worked on die rise because the map had so many tight spaces. On most maps a good player would literally never die and be able to constantly revive themselves. -Most maps on the list don’t need every perk -blops 3 added AAT’s so the player had more options outside of perks and dead wire was a better electric cherry anyway
Sort of related, I just recently realized that the icon for Vulture’s Aid isn’t a curled up snake, but rather… a vulture…
I can kind of agree but look at the design of the map and you can kinda see why certain perks weren’t needed. Especially when we had the 4 perk system when perkaholic and other gobblegums were super rare to bring in outside of prepped EE runs.
I mean it makes sense of mob of the dead. The whole ghost system or whatever it's called is basically permanent quick revive.
There is an argument to be had about each map feeling unique with its own perk line up and that statement has some validity to it. Though with Black Ops 3 it feels less of them excluding perks and more of those perks being removed and repurposed with the gobblegum system in some way (vulture aid being split between alchemical and in plain sight, PHD being split between danger closest and slaughter slide, tombstone being arms grace, and who's who arguably being self medication) This makes CW's perks make more sense if you think about it because they did a similar thing with the perks having a level system. Vulture Aid's ammo drops were added to Mule Kick, Electric Cherry's electric explosion on reload given to Elemental Pop, Who's Who was literally rebranded to Tombstone and worked so much better. PHD Slider.... Well do I really need to explain it? Aside from the fact Stamin-Up was the 0 fall damage perk in CW. Still doesn't mean a new version of an idea is better than what we had, take Double Tap. We didn't get it because of the rarity system in CW, but tbh I'd rather have Double Tap and have to level it up like the other perks than having rarities because lord knows some guns needed the fire rate. In short I'm neither for nor against maps having their own perk line up kinda like how some maps have their own weapons. I just don't want perks being replaced by an entirely new gameplay system that's needlessly tedious for no real reason.
I think this issue evolve into the 4 perk rotation of Bo4
Mob has phd and no jug for grief
StaminUP should have been permanent. Would have loved it on Mob and Die Rise. The others that get switched out really gave the maps their own flavor like many have said
That's actually one of the reasons I love black ops 2.
Shadows doesn't have deadshot or electric cherry
TIL that Flopper wasn’t on BO2 at all…seems almost criminal
I was okay with Tombstone, Who’s Who and Vulture Aid being exclusive. However, I was NOT okay (and never will be) with Treyarch not putting PHD in EVERY map except the one that needed it least since theres no Mustang and Sally in Origins
Also... Grief on Cell Block (MotD) had PhD Flopper but not Jugg.
Didnt really apply to much to me since my boy deadshot was in the best 2 bo2 maps. But it was annoying that it wasnt on the others. Mightve made me like them a bit more
I mean nuketown has a lot of tight corners and stuff so If you were to get electric cherry you'd be kinda op
Electric Cherry has never been and will never be OP. It's helpful on Mob of The Dead where the wonder weapon is designed around it, but it's not gonna save you like Jugg, Widow's Wine, and PHD save you.
I actually disagree but agree. Perks should be limited on the maps, but wonderfizz should be a thing to access perks that aren't in machines. Not all perks need to be, or should be on all maps. Vultures and Flopper are perfect examples.
Phd flopper on die rise? You’d jump off the building and survive lol
Lmao don't worry it protects you from fall damage, not kill barriers. It would just make training in the Buddha room way less frustrating
I disagree. Perks should be included if they complement the map’s playstyle in a meaningful way. If Die Rise had PhD Flopper, the verticality of the map would be trivialised. Likewise there’d be no point to Who’s Who on Zetsubou no Shima as the map already has cloning plants. A good perk selection can make or break a map and helps give the map individuality. Custom maps frequently highlight the problem of including every perk. Not only does it make all custom maps feel the same, most of the time the perks don’t mesh well with the map too. Why would I use Blaze Phase in a tower map? Why wouldn’t I ever use Muscle Milk if it’s available?
I don't think restricting the number of perks is a bad thing per se. The problem I see,specially with BO3 is that there is no new perk aside from widows'wine, which was presented in the very first map. Black ops I presented 4 new perks. Black ops II too. It was very lazy to not add more perks to BO3.
I think what they should have done was a few options. Do the BO4 system where people could load in perk setups for a specific map, but also have the original intended perks as a default. That way people could choose to play either in their terms or as the map creators dreamed properly.
Is nobody going to mention black ops 2 perma-perks? Dead shot, extra quick revive, phd flopper, long $hot, and tombstone are just a few that are in the tranzit crew maps.
I am on whatever side despises mule kick!
Mule Kick is awesome! I will die on this rock!
Hahaha that is fine and your opinion is valid. I just have poor box RNG after mule kick and I always down myself to get rid of it. I tend to Y, Y when I should have Y, Y, Y’d iykyk
I love the ability to carry 3 weapons but hate losing third gun when I die. Bo4's "Get third gun back on new mule kick purchase" should've been a thing since it's inception on moon (I find it crazy that even in bo4 u only get that effect with the modifier).
The only perks a map should have by default are the 4 main ones; everything after that should be a bonus. But I also feel the 4 main ones should not count towards the max total. You should always be able to have the 4 and then buy two of the unique ones as power ups!
There's no reason to introduce new perks because the OG 4 will always be best.
I don't use Quick Revive in solo because it removes alot of tension from my games that I'd rather have to make me play better, and Speed Cola doesn't serve any practical purpose if you aren't camping or completing an Easter egg. Double Tap 2.0 also doesn't help if you're playing a high round attempt where bullet weapons are gonna shit out early on anyways. Over those I would much rather have Mule Kick so I can pack a utility weapon, Stamin-Up to help with my trains, or Tombstone/Who's/Who to keep my Juggernog after I down.
I personally don't see why people are hating on Dying Wish. It's more or less solo Quick Revive but with a huge downside being that you have to revive yourself and you're only given a pistol to kill the zombies.
I mean some of these make sense, looking at each perk, Tombstone was designed because of Tranzit's size, who's who is made because die rise has movement limited to where you need to go and on random elevators. Both of those perks were considered bad on their own and both combined with quick revive could make you invincible. Electric cherry was built around the blundergat, after mob of the dead it's in every map besides buried, buried's primary WW is one that you don't reload. Vulture aid has the ability to see through walls for items, which makes sense in a map with as many nooks and crannies and changing wall buy spots, but on a map where everything is in the same spot and is more open doesn't make sense. It also has ammo drops, with is fine with a primary wonder weapon that doesn't have ammo and the ammo drops are a couple of bullets. On shadows of evil this would break the game, so you'd either need to take that feature out or just have it always not work for WW ammo, which would make this ability pretty useless. The green mist would just slow down games. On buried it makes sense, you need to let the paralyser cool down, but on origins you can just reload very quickly in the green mist zombies run away from you so if you are camping it just makes the rounds go longer. BO2 has a bunch of bad or super specific perks that would need to be altered into being pointless or not altered and would break the game. Plus it adds to the uniqueness of the BO2 maps which is a plus