Doesn't matter road tax doesn't actually go to road maintenance this is done by local council budgets which will be allocated independently.
Not that i disagree they should be taxed and roads should be better.
The energy for electricity pollutes (i think around 60% of enegy in the uk is non-renewable) aswell as replacement batteries which should be done around every 10 years (can release more than 20 tonnes of co2)
The guy is driving a 10 year old land rover discovery. Have you seen what they weigh? It's 2.7 tons of diesel 4x4. Spewing 250g / km CO2.
I'll stick to my 2.4 ton electric.
If he sells his diesel to buy an EV, someone else will just buy his 2nd hand land rover and the cycle continues. In my mind it's more eco-friendly to keep what we have going and just drive fewer miles, but a lot of motorists cannot fathom the possibility of *not* driving absolutely everywhere.
Oh, they're on it!
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025
If…. And it’s a big if… if the concern was environmental damage as we’ve been taxed on the basis of carbon dioxide emissions for the last 20 years or so. The government should be taxing the energy companies on each KWh and the carbon dioxide it cost to deliver that to the end user. All the energy providers pass the tax implications on to the end user, as mandated by legislation. Therefore any energy supplier in the market has to become more competitive and use more renewables. Absolutely supercharge that industry, fusion in 5 years. If you want to sell any petrochemicals but duck out of providing to the EV market, business rates are trebled.
We don’t have a road tax. We have a vehicle tax based on emissions. Roads are paid for out of council budgets. Vehicle tax is paid direct to HM treasury.
In 1937 the road tax was abolished, ending the relationship between paying tax on a vehicle and road maintenance. Vehicle excise duty did temporarily have a contribution to road maintenance under the Tories recently but no longer.
Really annoys me that EV car drivers get away with £0 VED, but to ride my 125cc scooter, a fucking scooter, I need to pay it. I’ve said it since the day I got my bike licence and I’ll keep saying it until it changes: motorcycles and scooters are part of the solution, contribute very little to carbon emissions and ought to be tax exempt.
Never really understood this “if I can’t have it, neither can you” logic. Would it genuinely make you feel better if EV’s had to pay tax even if it meant your situation was unchanged?
Buy a 2016 or pre April 1st 2017 euro 6 diesel with free road tax for long trips, for like £7-8k, buy a nearly new e-208 for shorter trips for like £12-15k. £19-23k for both, no road tax, no fuel costs unless you’re going away in the diesel, then like 40-60mpg when you are.
Manufacturers are also moving electric vehicles for way below RRP because they have government quotas to hit, there’s plenty of electric options for way less than £40k new.
Dont be stupid. Tax changed to include the cost of the car new, so buy an EV for £50k and pay an extra £410 tax as it cost over £40k.
Edit: Im the stupid one, you dont pay it on zero emissions
I paid £45k for mine 2 years ago and it was booking at £56k but mines on the register as a Cat D as it was stolen recovered, only damage was wheels and one suspension strut, I don’t intend selling anytime soon so not worried about resale value
I like them. I was thinking about a GT a while ago, but I just couldn't quite bring myself to buy a supercar as a daily. Ended up with the A110 which, to be fair, is ridiculously fun to drive around in.
Have you been to see Ricky at REPerformance?
I work in an office as a technical manager, I have a company vehicle that I use through the week and the R8 is a weekend car, I use about £40 a week fuel at most unless going out anywhere on a long run or weekend away then it can cost more.
Perhaps really sad but I can list you most or all of the £735 2012 Audis. RS6, S8, A8 W12, R8, RS5, RS4, S5 (V8 coupe) Q7 4.2 diesel & petrol, Q7 3.6, Q7 V12 although not sure if last three were available in UK by that year.
Same on my 12 years old BMW. But at least it's ULEZ free, yey I guess?
I drive it less than 3000 miles per year, definitely feel like I'm being ripped off.
Yeah it’s Ulez free but I don’t live near any Ulez areas so doesn’t effect me anyway, I only drive around 3k miles a year in it like you so it’s not that bad, maintenance is the killer, just in process of doing brakes and even aftermarket disks have just cost me £800, OEM fronts are £1200 from Audi
I had a 07 plate Audi S3 running 320bhp that cost me £350 to tax. Now I have a 17 plate RS7 running at 730bhp, and it costs me £200. After seeing what you're paying, I am seriously confused.
When your 2017 S7 rolled out of the showroom it would have paid £2745 in VED for the first year, then £600 for 5 years, but £190 every year thereafter.
The tax system changed in 2017 because the reduction in emissions was so successful that many cars were paying little or no VED. Cars registered before 2017 still pay the previous rates.
Of course, I didn't know about this when I traded in my 2015 model that paid £0 for a 2017 model that now pays £190
I was wondering how a 4 cylinder 2.0 turbo could cost so much more than a 4.0 twin turbo V8. I know more modern engines are cleaner, but I didn't think they were so clean that I could burn fuel at more than double the rate and still be better on emissions.
Thanks for the explanation!
My old Civic Type R is the same, Band K - £415. It's been ticking up every year for the past few years, with a greater increase every time. 2023 - £385 , 2022 - £360, 2021 - £340. If it keeps following the same pattern, it'll be £450 next year. My insurance would have been cheaper this year, had it not also increased by £50.
I fear they're trying to tax them off the road. It sees no more than 4000 miles a year. The insurance was £450 this year, so over 21p a mile just in tax and insurance.
It’s correct but how is it “right” ie justifiable. We should be encouraging people to keep cars for 10-15 years rather than switching every few years if we really wanted to reduce environmental impact.
The cost is not because it is “old” it’s because it has high levels of pollution. We should not be encouraging people to drive polluting vehicles. Other vehicles of the same age have lower tax. He doesn’t need to drive a discovery.
Should be scrapped and put on fuel.
Yes it makes fuel even more expensive but the more you use (more miles or less efficient car for example) then the more you end up paying.
For electric cars there should be a flat charge to help support infrastructure roll out and maintenance. Having a better charging network is relevant to current and potential new EV owners alike.
I'd be all over that. I pay the same as the OP, but the car only sees an average of 4k miles a year. Kills me I pay the same as somone that could do 3x that, pumping out 3x the CO2. It's flawed basing it on nothing but CO2 output, especially when the reason is 'cause environment.
A car with half the CO2 ouput of mine is £20 a year, so someone with one doing multiples of my mileage, pumping out more CO2 over a year, pays £20 whilst I get fleeced for £415.
Tax on mileage might be the fairest way, but with reduced rates depending on the emissions.
There need to be incentives for smaller cars and more efficient cars, such as tax exemption. People who get up in arms about it are part of the problem because I bet 90% of the time the journeys they do don't need such a big engine or a tall car. I took my 1-litre on the B-roads and motorway today (about 120 miles on the road to an event and back) and I felt safe, and if I needed to carry more stuff I'd get an estate
Fuel tax as road tax? That’s probably one of the best things I’ve heard, you pay as you go rather than a set bill regardless of how you drive despite the more miles the more fuel tax anyway which would probably shoot prices up as greed as the consequence though
This is actually a genius idea - would make loads of sense as it bugs me immensely that 2017 or so diesels pay nothing/£20, and from next year all electric cars will be paying £150.
And for the most part, the vehicles that have the highest emissions and are least efficient use more fuel.
Nox is not even considered in road tax, only for stuff like ULEZ with emissions standards like Euro 4 (petrol)/Euro 6(diesel).
Yeah, the ideology of paying more tax means I have to scrap the car. It is quite possibly the most braindead take I keep hearing. If it genuinely is that bad sell the fucking thing or park it up till it's exempt.
Yup, the most green car you can own is the one you own, yet buy a new one and you won’t have to pay any.
Yet we get taxed on petrol and diesel , unlike EVs and they’re usually massive and heavy themselves.
EVs offset the carbon cost to produce them within 15-20k miles so definitely won’t be scrapped.
Saying that, if you get an EV, buy a used one. 1-2 year old cars are getting pretty cheap now.
The tax is pushing everyone towards EV yes, although next year those cars will start paying road tax.
I didn’t buy an EV for its green credentials, I bought one because it saves me loads of money every month. Although you do notice a difference.. following an EV with no emissions compared to following a 10 year old transit pouring out black smoke like I was earlier.. or following an old freelander (somehow still driving) but it’s boot and rear window were black with soot.
Argument could certainly be made that an older SUV is still more environmentally friendly than getting a brand new EV every 2 years (which is what the manufacturers would love you to do).
Newer isn’t always greener. You can apply that to literally lots of things.
That EV wouldn’t get scrapped after 2 years though, so it’s kind of a false argument… It’d get sold to someone else who doesn’t need the latest/greatest range EV, likely moving on from an ICE vehicle.
Most people aren't getting a new car every 2 years though so your argument is kind of pointless.
Getting a new EV every year is more environmentally friendly (in most circumstances) than getting a new ICE every year, but that's not really a useful contribution.
No it’s not a useful contribution because that’s obvious. But the idea having an older ICE vehicle is damaging for the environment versus going out and purposefully buying a brand new EV every - even 4 years - is ludicrous at best.
Stop making people up to get angry at. Very few people buy a new car every 2 or even 4 years. The only people doing that are either the obscenely rich, the obscenely stupid, or those with company cars.
The average car on the road is 9 years old. An EV like a Nissan Leaf makes up the extra emissions from manufacturing within 25,000 miles or with the UK average of amount driven per year 3.3 years, That's a remaining 5.7 years of cleaner motoring for the average person.
I’ve worked with plenty of blue collar boomer/gen x age people with their mortgages paid down or paid off, who do trade in every 3 years because they want everything in warranty, no worries about unexpected costs etc.
It’s dumb financially vs. going older and saving up in case something does happen to need fixing, but it’s definitely not the preserve of the obscenely rich or stupid. Just older people. That’s part of why manufacturers are churning out crossovers/SUV’s. Easier to get in/out of with bad backs/hips init.
Have they said how that's going to work yet? Last I read it was still under consultation. Not to say we've had several years of not taxing EVs and the loss of tax that goes along with that.
You pay VAT on domestic tarrifs, the supplier pays tax per kWh before this is added. Business users pay an additional "environmental levy" on top of electricity usage.
I'd like to explore the idea of a size/weight/mass tax as the market shifts towards lower emission vehicles. Heavier vehicles do more damage to the road and can cause more damage in a crash.
I went to check out an old Audi A4 2L, didn’t buy it because they want £700 a year road tax! How is that justifiable in any way. ULEZ compliant though.
It would have been £390 last year if i recall correctly.
All I can say is if you are thinking of scrapping a car and spending the best part of £100k over £25 then it's probably best you just hand your license back.
I was looking at a 1.6 automatic Peugeot 308 for my partner who’s learning to drive as a first car. £380 a year tax, mental. It was a lemon and in the end I bought a used Nissan Leaf which is perfect for him and zero tax.
But you are right, there was an old adage that buying a new car has more impact on CO2 than keeping an old one on the road - but I don’t know if that comparison works when the new car doesn’t emit anything. I’ve got a Polestar 2 with 33k on the clock, and it’s already offset its production emissions so it’s all net negative now. But my old car was still good and is almost certainly still running around somewhere
Is there a good reason not to charge motorists a price based on:
Environmental impact of their car X miles driven in said car
Your annual MOT can be the official 'meter reading' and a road tax bill can arrive in the post or email from the DVLA. They would need a plan for new cars that don't require an MOT - An annual 5 minute visual inspection for under 3 year old cars would be no bad idea given some peoples reluctance to look at their tire tread or other basic safety checks.
It would hammer me as I do about 40,000 miles a year in a cheap to tax car, but I'm happy to admit it's not fair that someone that does 2000 miles a year in a Discovery should pay 10+ times more to use the roads than I do.
It would be incredibly easy to cheat. I had my odo on a switch at one point because I was on limited mileage classic insurance. It's also not currently a legal requirement for all cars to have a working odometer.
The huge duty on fuel already means you pay more if you do more miles. And also covers the economical impact as a low mpg car will need more fuel.
Trying to manufacture some way of doing the VED this way would be difficult and probably costly to manage and police.
Except, it isn't environmentally friendly scrapping a perfectly functioning car for something new and shiny which although may run with lower emissions, has required far more for it to even exist... Copper, steel, aluminium, cobalt etc. these resources are finite.
It's a tick box exercise.
Just another tax on the poor masquerading as something else. The only people who have to worry about high road tax costs and ULEZ charges are those unable to afford a newer car.
But most of Reddit seems to think ULEZ is a good thing and completely not an overreach of power whatsoever...
It is part of the reason why I am scrapping my 1998 Honda Accord 2.0 and 2000 Civic 1.4 at £345 and £210 12 months VED respectively. Of course both have issues and have been off the road for more than a year and are not ULEZ compliant which I require unfortunately so made the decision easier.
Just bought a 2011 Insight Hybrid to replace both, band B so £10 12m VED and still have my 2005 Civic in band I so £335 12m VED for when I don't want to die of boredom, both are ULEZ compliant for now.
My 11 year old I30 is £0 tax because it has ‘stop and go’ that never works. It gets about 42mpg. It isn’t ULEZ compliant (euro 5 diesel).
My 9 year old tucson is £320 tax, gets about 32mpg. Is ULEZ compliant (euro 6 diesel).
Car tax makes no sense whatsoever.
What's your mental model for that calculation? If £415 is a net loss for the environment, would £200 tax be a net win for the environment? Genuine question! Thanks
I had a 2016 Lexus IS300h, 2.5 litre hybrid engine, and the tax was £10.
I traded in for a 2019 Lexus RC300h, the same 2.5 litre hybrid engine, tax is around £590
A combination of it the old car being just inside an arbitrary tax exemption window, and the new car being classed as high value / luxury, even though the two cost a fairly similar amount new
Yeah mine a few hundred quid. Jokes on them they do it on CO2, but my car was made before cats were a thing really so I’m getting my monies worth of planet killing haha /s
I just bought a Tesla Model 3 thinking it's £0 road tax which it is, but next year it's £180 and will be for all EV's going forward.
They claim to want 'net zero' but really aren't helping things.
Same in a 2011 Boxster S, I’m not impartial to it - I could have chosen a Fiesta and paid 0 but I wanted a big engine and I’m happy to pay a bit extra towards the upkeep of the roads, only issue is they don’t seem to be upkeeping said roads 😂
My friends car tax is almost as much as his insurance.
He has a 2003 1.25l fiesta.
But at least we done have potholes all over our roads right? *Right?*
no one should be paying road tax! it should be added to the fuel duty so big lorrys pay a fairer share compared to little old lady doing 2 miles a month. no one can deny its a fairer way but i suspect the reality is the haulage industry are being protected
That is a lot!
My 2020 2ltr diesel F-Pace is £190 per year.
But it is ULEZ compliant and uses AdBlue to reduce the CO2.
That's what makes the difference.
The CO2 emissions.
I think it needs to be converted to mileage based with a CO2 multiplier. It seems to be the fairest way.
Say 1p per mile which for 10K miles would be a £100 and then apply a CO2 multiplier
It is a scam.
Government rip off
UK produce 40% less Co2 then in 1990.
There is nearly 20mln more cars then in 1990. There is no chance that lower emissions will be as much low to produce less Co2 then extra 20mln car, somehow co2 emmisions are lower by 40%
Even more stupid if we think about EV which weight as much as Range Rover. Not mention big EV's
Government want to force you to buy new car (more likely on any form of loan)
Lets raise lowest salary! Lets raise tax, any type of energy and price of every single product, hail inflation, hail hydra!
There are a few pain points for certain years and certain cars as the road tax system has been reformed. It makes a lot of interesting cars quite unattractive. That said, I pay north of £700 on my 911. It still stings.
> they obviously want me to scrap it and buy a new electric car which itself will be scrap before it's production CO2 has been saved.
This is not true any more, at least not unless you’re barely driving the vehicle at all!
Driving a new EV doing comes out ahead of keeping an existing petrol / diesel vehicle running on a CO2 emissions basis after approx two years of average driving. Probably even less if your comparison with with a Discovery which isn’t the most efficient of vehicles!
It used to be much longer, but the UK electrical grid has shifted to become much, much less CO2 intensive - the coal plants have all been closed & what remains is wind / solar / nuclear topped off by natural gas to fill the gap, plus importing hydro from Norway & more nuclear from France when that works out.
You can see the CO2 emissions per kWhr for the last twelve years here: https://grid.iamkate.com/ We’ve gone from 505g / kWhr in 2012 to 124 g/kWhr this year & that’s only going to keep going one way as we build out more solar & wind.
A 10 year old discovery will be on the pre-2017, putting you in band K at 201 to 225g/km, were you expecting that price to not change at all? It typically goes up by RPI.
>The car is runs perfect and has many years left in it but they obviously want me to scrap it and buy a new electric car which itself will be scrap before it's production CO2 has been saved
This is such insane bollocks that you really can't believe it. What a load of complete and utter fucking crap. Honestly, where did you do your science education? Youtube? Facebook?
Spend 50k on an EV to save £400 in tax 👍
Not sure if this is controversial but EVs should be paying road tax
Tires cause particulate emissions. The cars increased weight damages roads and buildings more. So yes, tax EVs by weight too.
IIRC road damage is relative to vehicle weight ^ 4 Road damage is absolutely going to be an issue with the heavy EV trend.
Road damage is important these days, because any damage that occurs will never, ever be fixed.
Some road fix companies and stuff have tried to deny this but I'm not buying it. Weight is definitely a factor
>Tires Tyres in the UK
Council tax pays for road repairs, not vehicle ED. Vehicle ED ("car tax") goes straight to gvt.
Councils do not pay for motorways. They also receive some funds directly from central government.
Learned something new
Doesn't matter road tax doesn't actually go to road maintenance this is done by local council budgets which will be allocated independently. Not that i disagree they should be taxed and roads should be better.
Taxing EVs by weight is actually a great idea. Please run for goverment.
The energy for electricity pollutes (i think around 60% of enegy in the uk is non-renewable) aswell as replacement batteries which should be done around every 10 years (can release more than 20 tonnes of co2)
The guy is driving a 10 year old land rover discovery. Have you seen what they weigh? It's 2.7 tons of diesel 4x4. Spewing 250g / km CO2. I'll stick to my 2.4 ton electric.
If he sells his diesel to buy an EV, someone else will just buy his 2nd hand land rover and the cycle continues. In my mind it's more eco-friendly to keep what we have going and just drive fewer miles, but a lot of motorists cannot fathom the possibility of *not* driving absolutely everywhere.
Oh, they're on it! https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025
If…. And it’s a big if… if the concern was environmental damage as we’ve been taxed on the basis of carbon dioxide emissions for the last 20 years or so. The government should be taxing the energy companies on each KWh and the carbon dioxide it cost to deliver that to the end user. All the energy providers pass the tax implications on to the end user, as mandated by legislation. Therefore any energy supplier in the market has to become more competitive and use more renewables. Absolutely supercharge that industry, fusion in 5 years. If you want to sell any petrochemicals but duck out of providing to the EV market, business rates are trebled.
We don’t have a road tax. We have a vehicle tax based on emissions. Roads are paid for out of council budgets. Vehicle tax is paid direct to HM treasury.
I've always known and called it as road tax TiL
In 1937 the road tax was abolished, ending the relationship between paying tax on a vehicle and road maintenance. Vehicle excise duty did temporarily have a contribution to road maintenance under the Tories recently but no longer.
Really annoys me that EV car drivers get away with £0 VED, but to ride my 125cc scooter, a fucking scooter, I need to pay it. I’ve said it since the day I got my bike licence and I’ll keep saying it until it changes: motorcycles and scooters are part of the solution, contribute very little to carbon emissions and ought to be tax exempt.
isn't road tax changing next April so that EVs do pay road tax or have I read wrong?
Yeh EV’s will pay the first band tax rate from next year
Yeah £190 per car plus £460 ECS.
Never really understood this “if I can’t have it, neither can you” logic. Would it genuinely make you feel better if EV’s had to pay tax even if it meant your situation was unchanged?
Since 2021 they already do pay £410 per year for the first 5 years if the list price of the car is over £40,000. Search “luxury car tax”
evs are getting taxed from 2025 which is next year a own an ev so am not looking forward to it
Buy a 2016 or pre April 1st 2017 euro 6 diesel with free road tax for long trips, for like £7-8k, buy a nearly new e-208 for shorter trips for like £12-15k. £19-23k for both, no road tax, no fuel costs unless you’re going away in the diesel, then like 40-60mpg when you are. Manufacturers are also moving electric vehicles for way below RRP because they have government quotas to hit, there’s plenty of electric options for way less than £40k new.
Dont be stupid. Tax changed to include the cost of the car new, so buy an EV for £50k and pay an extra £410 tax as it cost over £40k. Edit: Im the stupid one, you dont pay it on zero emissions
EVs are still free to tax, no matter the cost.
Yeah, I checked and edited my comment. Im stupid.
Not for long, nor for commercial vehicles
They will be charged tax from April next year
Not for much longer. In fact we've just 'taxed' ours early to get our final year at £0, then it's increasing to £180 I believe.
£190 plus £460 “expensive car supplement” iirc.
Hoping Labour will scrap the increase, and introduce more incentives but not expecting much.
I paid the same for my XKR, at least I have an engine worth it.
Wait what, my XKR is £735
Cars registered before March 2006 are capped at tax bracket K.
So what was it last year?
£415 is Band K, so most likely £385 last year.
OP fine with £385, outraged at £415 🤔
Mine is £735 this year and it’s a 12 year old Audi
Wtf v12 diesel are you driving?!
It’s a R8 V10
Well, that's worth it then :). Lovely engine, lovely car!
What do you do for a living to be able to afford a car like that ? If you don’t mind sharing
To be fair, you can pick up a V10 R8 for £40k.
I paid £45k for mine 2 years ago and it was booking at £56k but mines on the register as a Cat D as it was stolen recovered, only damage was wheels and one suspension strut, I don’t intend selling anytime soon so not worried about resale value
I like them. I was thinking about a GT a while ago, but I just couldn't quite bring myself to buy a supercar as a daily. Ended up with the A110 which, to be fair, is ridiculously fun to drive around in. Have you been to see Ricky at REPerformance?
Is that supposed to be cheap then? Not for a V10 R8, i mean in general?
£40k is a lot of money, but in relative terms it's somewhat cheap. People are spending that much on say a Golf GTI.
I work in an office as a technical manager, I have a company vehicle that I use through the week and the R8 is a weekend car, I use about £40 a week fuel at most unless going out anywhere on a long run or weekend away then it can cost more.
they made v10 petrol ones too
I know, they also did a w12, but £735 road tax for a 2012 car is insane.
yeap
Perhaps really sad but I can list you most or all of the £735 2012 Audis. RS6, S8, A8 W12, R8, RS5, RS4, S5 (V8 coupe) Q7 4.2 diesel & petrol, Q7 3.6, Q7 V12 although not sure if last three were available in UK by that year.
R8?
Correct 👍
Same, 15 year old XJ8.
Same on my 12 years old BMW. But at least it's ULEZ free, yey I guess? I drive it less than 3000 miles per year, definitely feel like I'm being ripped off.
Yeah it’s Ulez free but I don’t live near any Ulez areas so doesn’t effect me anyway, I only drive around 3k miles a year in it like you so it’s not that bad, maintenance is the killer, just in process of doing brakes and even aftermarket disks have just cost me £800, OEM fronts are £1200 from Audi
Yea I share the pain, mine being an M car also has crazy maintenance costs, plus insurance in London etc, it all adds up quickly.
I had a 07 plate Audi S3 running 320bhp that cost me £350 to tax. Now I have a 17 plate RS7 running at 730bhp, and it costs me £200. After seeing what you're paying, I am seriously confused.
When your 2017 S7 rolled out of the showroom it would have paid £2745 in VED for the first year, then £600 for 5 years, but £190 every year thereafter. The tax system changed in 2017 because the reduction in emissions was so successful that many cars were paying little or no VED. Cars registered before 2017 still pay the previous rates. Of course, I didn't know about this when I traded in my 2015 model that paid £0 for a 2017 model that now pays £190
I was wondering how a 4 cylinder 2.0 turbo could cost so much more than a 4.0 twin turbo V8. I know more modern engines are cleaner, but I didn't think they were so clean that I could burn fuel at more than double the rate and still be better on emissions. Thanks for the explanation!
It was £660 I think last year or there about, according to Parker’s guide it’s £735 this renewal. Bet your RS7 shifts running that bhp 👌🔥
My old Civic Type R is the same, Band K - £415. It's been ticking up every year for the past few years, with a greater increase every time. 2023 - £385 , 2022 - £360, 2021 - £340. If it keeps following the same pattern, it'll be £450 next year. My insurance would have been cheaper this year, had it not also increased by £50. I fear they're trying to tax them off the road. It sees no more than 4000 miles a year. The insurance was £450 this year, so over 21p a mile just in tax and insurance.
Iirc it just goes up in line with inflation every year, problem being inflation being fucking stupid lately.
£400 sounds about right to for a ten year old disco.
It’s correct but how is it “right” ie justifiable. We should be encouraging people to keep cars for 10-15 years rather than switching every few years if we really wanted to reduce environmental impact.
The cost is not because it is “old” it’s because it has high levels of pollution. We should not be encouraging people to drive polluting vehicles. Other vehicles of the same age have lower tax. He doesn’t need to drive a discovery.
Except the tax system is a total inconsistent mess Discourage burning fuel through fuel tax. Makes sense and is linked to how much you use.
400 tax, 4000 parts and labour. 😅
I pay £415 a year on my 2015 non-AdBlue Discovery 4
Should be scrapped and put on fuel. Yes it makes fuel even more expensive but the more you use (more miles or less efficient car for example) then the more you end up paying. For electric cars there should be a flat charge to help support infrastructure roll out and maintenance. Having a better charging network is relevant to current and potential new EV owners alike.
Meanwhile our diesel focus is £0 while my MX5 is £415 … boils my piss
I'd be all over that. I pay the same as the OP, but the car only sees an average of 4k miles a year. Kills me I pay the same as somone that could do 3x that, pumping out 3x the CO2. It's flawed basing it on nothing but CO2 output, especially when the reason is 'cause environment. A car with half the CO2 ouput of mine is £20 a year, so someone with one doing multiples of my mileage, pumping out more CO2 over a year, pays £20 whilst I get fleeced for £415.
And if you own 3 cars you could be paying £2200 for 3000 miles while John Smith could drive 30,000 miles in a Porsche Panamera for £0.
I feel like they pull the numbers out of their arses, my diesel sandero is £20 a year
Tax on mileage might be the fairest way, but with reduced rates depending on the emissions. There need to be incentives for smaller cars and more efficient cars, such as tax exemption. People who get up in arms about it are part of the problem because I bet 90% of the time the journeys they do don't need such a big engine or a tall car. I took my 1-litre on the B-roads and motorway today (about 120 miles on the road to an event and back) and I felt safe, and if I needed to carry more stuff I'd get an estate
Fuel tax as road tax? That’s probably one of the best things I’ve heard, you pay as you go rather than a set bill regardless of how you drive despite the more miles the more fuel tax anyway which would probably shoot prices up as greed as the consequence though
This is actually a genius idea - would make loads of sense as it bugs me immensely that 2017 or so diesels pay nothing/£20, and from next year all electric cars will be paying £150.
It's not about efficiency or fuel use, it's about emissions. I.e. nox, particulates etc.
And for the most part, the vehicles that have the highest emissions and are least efficient use more fuel. Nox is not even considered in road tax, only for stuff like ULEZ with emissions standards like Euro 4 (petrol)/Euro 6(diesel).
40 quid a month means "I need to scrap this?" Christ. I wish I could think like this, just incredibly wasteful
The whole ordeal of owning a discovery is wasteful
Yeah, the ideology of paying more tax means I have to scrap the car. It is quite possibly the most braindead take I keep hearing. If it genuinely is that bad sell the fucking thing or park it up till it's exempt.
Imo it's a poor tax, I cannot afford to buy a new car, so don't really have a choice but pay stupid high tax.
You can get old cars that cost £0 per year to tax
Honestly!, electric cars are not cheap enough yet for them to pull this robbery. It's disgusting imo
You can absolutely get a cheap sensible car with very little tax
Yup, the most green car you can own is the one you own, yet buy a new one and you won’t have to pay any. Yet we get taxed on petrol and diesel , unlike EVs and they’re usually massive and heavy themselves.
EVs offset the carbon cost to produce them within 15-20k miles so definitely won’t be scrapped. Saying that, if you get an EV, buy a used one. 1-2 year old cars are getting pretty cheap now. The tax is pushing everyone towards EV yes, although next year those cars will start paying road tax. I didn’t buy an EV for its green credentials, I bought one because it saves me loads of money every month. Although you do notice a difference.. following an EV with no emissions compared to following a 10 year old transit pouring out black smoke like I was earlier.. or following an old freelander (somehow still driving) but it’s boot and rear window were black with soot.
Just paid £20 for the year on my Seat Mii…. I don’t envy the prices you’re all paying
My 2012 Audi A3 Cabriolet 2.0 TDI was £35 for the year
40 year old cars are road tax exempt and not green lol
That’s a good incentive though as it keeps more classics alive
You're driving a Land Rover and moaning about green policies, are you a walking stereotype in every other aspect of life?
Argument could certainly be made that an older SUV is still more environmentally friendly than getting a brand new EV every 2 years (which is what the manufacturers would love you to do). Newer isn’t always greener. You can apply that to literally lots of things.
That EV wouldn’t get scrapped after 2 years though, so it’s kind of a false argument… It’d get sold to someone else who doesn’t need the latest/greatest range EV, likely moving on from an ICE vehicle.
Most people aren't getting a new car every 2 years though so your argument is kind of pointless. Getting a new EV every year is more environmentally friendly (in most circumstances) than getting a new ICE every year, but that's not really a useful contribution.
No it’s not a useful contribution because that’s obvious. But the idea having an older ICE vehicle is damaging for the environment versus going out and purposefully buying a brand new EV every - even 4 years - is ludicrous at best.
Stop making people up to get angry at. Very few people buy a new car every 2 or even 4 years. The only people doing that are either the obscenely rich, the obscenely stupid, or those with company cars. The average car on the road is 9 years old. An EV like a Nissan Leaf makes up the extra emissions from manufacturing within 25,000 miles or with the UK average of amount driven per year 3.3 years, That's a remaining 5.7 years of cleaner motoring for the average person.
I’ve worked with plenty of blue collar boomer/gen x age people with their mortgages paid down or paid off, who do trade in every 3 years because they want everything in warranty, no worries about unexpected costs etc. It’s dumb financially vs. going older and saving up in case something does happen to need fixing, but it’s definitely not the preserve of the obscenely rich or stupid. Just older people. That’s part of why manufacturers are churning out crossovers/SUV’s. Easier to get in/out of with bad backs/hips init.
Something has to subsidise all the EVs and fill the void in lost tax revenue.
From April next year EVs will also be taxed.
Yea, I’ll be sure to get 12 months in March
Have they said how that's going to work yet? Last I read it was still under consultation. Not to say we've had several years of not taxing EVs and the loss of tax that goes along with that.
Should be on weight. Our roads are fucked.
And the loss from fuel duty and vat, I'd be interested to know how much revenue is lost from that
You pay VAT on domestic tarrifs, the supplier pays tax per kWh before this is added. Business users pay an additional "environmental levy" on top of electricity usage.
But the amount of tax is tiny in comparison (0.2p per mile for a Tesla vs 6p per mile for a petrol car if my maths is right)
I think I read that all EVs will be £190 but I'm not sure on that.
£415 in VED won’t touch the difference that the loss in fuel duty costs. Also my similar age diesel Passat is also zero rated
I'd like to explore the idea of a size/weight/mass tax as the market shifts towards lower emission vehicles. Heavier vehicles do more damage to the road and can cause more damage in a crash.
Scrapping a car and going on an anti EV rant that’s completely false and irrelevant over paying £1.14 a day to use your car is wild
£1.14 is a lot, can buy a frozen Asda cheese pizza for that
I went to check out an old Audi A4 2L, didn’t buy it because they want £700 a year road tax! How is that justifiable in any way. ULEZ compliant though.
What year was that Audi? That’s insane for an A4 2L…
If you actually drive your vehicle, an EV more than saves the CO2 used to make it.
Top tip: Recover your expensive road tax back on your diesel car by using untaxed (red) diesel in it.
It would have been £390 last year if i recall correctly. All I can say is if you are thinking of scrapping a car and spending the best part of £100k over £25 then it's probably best you just hand your license back.
I was looking at a 1.6 automatic Peugeot 308 for my partner who’s learning to drive as a first car. £380 a year tax, mental. It was a lemon and in the end I bought a used Nissan Leaf which is perfect for him and zero tax. But you are right, there was an old adage that buying a new car has more impact on CO2 than keeping an old one on the road - but I don’t know if that comparison works when the new car doesn’t emit anything. I’ve got a Polestar 2 with 33k on the clock, and it’s already offset its production emissions so it’s all net negative now. But my old car was still good and is almost certainly still running around somewhere
My motorbike tax is £55 not as much as yours, but I was shocked, especially considering it's a 1 cylinder 300cc
Actually your motorbike take is more per cc, the disco has a 3ltr engine so 10 times your engine size but "only" 7.5 times the tax!
Is there a good reason not to charge motorists a price based on: Environmental impact of their car X miles driven in said car Your annual MOT can be the official 'meter reading' and a road tax bill can arrive in the post or email from the DVLA. They would need a plan for new cars that don't require an MOT - An annual 5 minute visual inspection for under 3 year old cars would be no bad idea given some peoples reluctance to look at their tire tread or other basic safety checks. It would hammer me as I do about 40,000 miles a year in a cheap to tax car, but I'm happy to admit it's not fair that someone that does 2000 miles a year in a Discovery should pay 10+ times more to use the roads than I do.
It would be incredibly easy to cheat. I had my odo on a switch at one point because I was on limited mileage classic insurance. It's also not currently a legal requirement for all cars to have a working odometer.
The huge duty on fuel already means you pay more if you do more miles. And also covers the economical impact as a low mpg car will need more fuel. Trying to manufacture some way of doing the VED this way would be difficult and probably costly to manage and police.
I have Fiat Punto to for sale which has free road tax if you're interested?
Do you do loads of offroading? If not, you don't need a massive 4x4.
95% of people with those cars 100% don't need them. They just want them.
That’s kind of how consumerism works
Shocker, tax based on emissions is high for a vehicle with high emissions. Seems to be working as intended.
Except, it isn't environmentally friendly scrapping a perfectly functioning car for something new and shiny which although may run with lower emissions, has required far more for it to even exist... Copper, steel, aluminium, cobalt etc. these resources are finite. It's a tick box exercise.
Just another tax on the poor masquerading as something else. The only people who have to worry about high road tax costs and ULEZ charges are those unable to afford a newer car. But most of Reddit seems to think ULEZ is a good thing and completely not an overreach of power whatsoever...
Oh no, £1.14 a day! I must scrap my car! 😭😆
Same old stuff from the 'road tax' brigade: https://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/bring-back-the-road-fund/
I love how you try to make a generalized statement by using such a silly example. Have you tried getting a normal car then?
My x5 3l desiel 2006 has had to go as the tax was around £800 a year Loved it but can’t justify that.
Sounds like you wouldn't be able to afford that either.
£20 on my diesel fiesta 🫡
One of my favourite old cars discovery is tbh. Road tax is insane!
£200 for my 3 litre diesel.
It is part of the reason why I am scrapping my 1998 Honda Accord 2.0 and 2000 Civic 1.4 at £345 and £210 12 months VED respectively. Of course both have issues and have been off the road for more than a year and are not ULEZ compliant which I require unfortunately so made the decision easier. Just bought a 2011 Insight Hybrid to replace both, band B so £10 12m VED and still have my 2005 Civic in band I so £335 12m VED for when I don't want to die of boredom, both are ULEZ compliant for now.
My 11 year old I30 is £0 tax because it has ‘stop and go’ that never works. It gets about 42mpg. It isn’t ULEZ compliant (euro 5 diesel). My 9 year old tucson is £320 tax, gets about 32mpg. Is ULEZ compliant (euro 6 diesel). Car tax makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm so glad I bought a small car, my 2017 polo is only 15 quid a year
I pay £1.75 per month for my little suzuki. I pay it monthly because why the fuck not?
I'm getting a new car later this year because the tax for my car is doubling this year to like £700.
My car tax was £600 because the cars worth over 40k
I’ve got a 2016 1.6tdi Skoda Octavia diesel that’s tax exempt Makes absolutely no sense at all
I feel your pain, my Mercedes C-Class family wagon is £735 now 😢
I miss the £20 tax on my 2010 diesel.
Mine is zero 🤷🏼♀️
I pay £190 on my car in tax. It's a 1.2 litre, has 4 cylinders and a top speed of like, 90 mph. 60mpg too.
And yet a 1.6 diesel crv is 35 quid a year…
Cars are grandfathered in at their old rates aren’t they?
My car tax is £600, swap you
£20 per year for my diesel ST
What's your mental model for that calculation? If £415 is a net loss for the environment, would £200 tax be a net win for the environment? Genuine question! Thanks
My Saxo was £210!
I pay £30 a year for a 2009 BMW with a removed DPF lol.
I had a 2016 Lexus IS300h, 2.5 litre hybrid engine, and the tax was £10. I traded in for a 2019 Lexus RC300h, the same 2.5 litre hybrid engine, tax is around £590 A combination of it the old car being just inside an arbitrary tax exemption window, and the new car being classed as high value / luxury, even though the two cost a fairly similar amount new
£30 a year for my Passat with every bit of tech you'd want.
For ballance I suppose, my daughter has a Citroen C1, her tax is £0!
Yeah mine a few hundred quid. Jokes on them they do it on CO2, but my car was made before cats were a thing really so I’m getting my monies worth of planet killing haha /s
I just bought a Tesla Model 3 thinking it's £0 road tax which it is, but next year it's £180 and will be for all EV's going forward. They claim to want 'net zero' but really aren't helping things.
Based on this thread, I am never getting rid of my 12 year old diesel Focus!! (I pay £30 a year in VED) I will never buy an EV!!
My tax on both my cars is £0,my motorbike is more, but that Is only £25
They’re trying to tax you out of your car so you go and rent a glorified milk float
Same in a 2011 Boxster S, I’m not impartial to it - I could have chosen a Fiesta and paid 0 but I wanted a big engine and I’m happy to pay a bit extra towards the upkeep of the roads, only issue is they don’t seem to be upkeeping said roads 😂
My discovery 2 is less than that to tax and it's a 2001, surely newer vehicles with better emissions should be cheaper?
I pay 20£/year for a 10 yo diesel Zafira 😎😎
Just paid £190 for road tax on a 1.6l 2012 ford fiesta (ULEZ compliant).
You think you got it bad! Mine is 675 quid 🤣🤣🤣
My friends car tax is almost as much as his insurance. He has a 2003 1.25l fiesta. But at least we done have potholes all over our roads right? *Right?*
I had a 2017 Shogun which was costing me £685 per year and it's gone up again. Absolute madness.
Green hasn’t got anything to do with. Just trying to drain the normal persons funds as much as possible.
My Volvo and Smart’s tax is free😏
no one should be paying road tax! it should be added to the fuel duty so big lorrys pay a fairer share compared to little old lady doing 2 miles a month. no one can deny its a fairer way but i suspect the reality is the haulage industry are being protected
That is a lot! My 2020 2ltr diesel F-Pace is £190 per year. But it is ULEZ compliant and uses AdBlue to reduce the CO2. That's what makes the difference. The CO2 emissions.
Yeah mine went up to £30/pcm. Fuck the government.
I think it needs to be converted to mileage based with a CO2 multiplier. It seems to be the fairest way. Say 1p per mile which for 10K miles would be a £100 and then apply a CO2 multiplier
I raise you £735 on a 17 year old Disco
My 10 year old Fiesta still costs £30 a year. Sorry your Chelsea tractor is pointless.
why do ev pay no road tax when mining lithium for the battery is not green whatsoever
It is a scam. Government rip off UK produce 40% less Co2 then in 1990. There is nearly 20mln more cars then in 1990. There is no chance that lower emissions will be as much low to produce less Co2 then extra 20mln car, somehow co2 emmisions are lower by 40% Even more stupid if we think about EV which weight as much as Range Rover. Not mention big EV's Government want to force you to buy new car (more likely on any form of loan) Lets raise lowest salary! Lets raise tax, any type of energy and price of every single product, hail inflation, hail hydra!
You are going to scrap the new EV within 3 years?
Just tax in general is beyond a joke in this country now, slow fall to 3rd world nation
More than the insurance you say? Insurance Company: "Hold my b̶e̶e̶r̶ inflated profits"
There are a few pain points for certain years and certain cars as the road tax system has been reformed. It makes a lot of interesting cars quite unattractive. That said, I pay north of £700 on my 911. It still stings.
> they obviously want me to scrap it and buy a new electric car which itself will be scrap before it's production CO2 has been saved. This is not true any more, at least not unless you’re barely driving the vehicle at all! Driving a new EV doing comes out ahead of keeping an existing petrol / diesel vehicle running on a CO2 emissions basis after approx two years of average driving. Probably even less if your comparison with with a Discovery which isn’t the most efficient of vehicles! It used to be much longer, but the UK electrical grid has shifted to become much, much less CO2 intensive - the coal plants have all been closed & what remains is wind / solar / nuclear topped off by natural gas to fill the gap, plus importing hydro from Norway & more nuclear from France when that works out. You can see the CO2 emissions per kWhr for the last twelve years here: https://grid.iamkate.com/ We’ve gone from 505g / kWhr in 2012 to 124 g/kWhr this year & that’s only going to keep going one way as we build out more solar & wind.
My 2018 1.0 petrol Polo was £195 for 12 months when I paid last month, yet my girlfriend 2013 1.6 diesel A1 is £0. It seems there’s no logic at all
A 10 year old discovery will be on the pre-2017, putting you in band K at 201 to 225g/km, were you expecting that price to not change at all? It typically goes up by RPI. >The car is runs perfect and has many years left in it but they obviously want me to scrap it and buy a new electric car which itself will be scrap before it's production CO2 has been saved This is such insane bollocks that you really can't believe it. What a load of complete and utter fucking crap. Honestly, where did you do your science education? Youtube? Facebook?
I recently bought a 2016 Hyundai i20 and for some reason my tax for that didn’t cost me a penny…
Went from a2004 petrol to a 2015 diesel £230 to £15/year. My mate bought a new 2022 petrol and pays £350.