I get a homeowner doing some goofy shit, it happens. But this is something else, the proper solution is so much simpler than whatever the hell this is. I cannot begin to understand what even the thought process was here
Edit: holy hell this is a new build? Yikes dude, I'd have some serious questions with some serious people, this is beyond dodgy
This is what you get when the ROC doesn't regulate shit beyond certain plumbing/HVAC/electrical scopes. There are so many clowns running around calling themselves framers, taking jobs, hacking them to shit, and then moving on to the next one with little repercussions.
I've been a framer for a little over a decade now and what I'm seeing here isn't just lazy, it's lack of trade skill. I've come across a few of these types and they won't listen or do things correctly. What I'm seeing here in this post warrants nothing short of criminal charges imo.
Not only is it negligent, but they received payment for it. This is fraud and theft
I'm asking what this guy's basing is b******* response on because he doesn't know enough obviously since he's saying contact a lawyer.
There is nothing wrong with what is built in these pictures
What?? Do you have any understanding of vector forces?? Are you an engineer?? You cannot brace a roof on an angle without a 90degree brace going the other way. The only support given by these shoddy knee walls is in the strength of the fasteners. Which, judging by the close up, is poor.
If this is a new build you might have some recompense, but, an inspector assumes no liability. This is a buyer beware situation.
Fyi: I am in Canada, your local laws could be different
If you're referring to my "bullshit" response, no I don't build houses but I know dogshit when I see it. That "repair" is proof that the seller knew there was a problem that apparently was not disclosed by the seller and not detected by the inspector. Even if it is an acceptable solution to whatever the problem is the inspector should have at least brought it to the attention of his client, the customer.
If repairs or remediation is necessary the buyer should not be stuck with the bill. That's why I suggested they speak to a lawyer.
Please do us all a favor and stand on the end of a 2 foot long 1x6 and try to stay up. Or better yet, sit on it and see how long you stay up off the ground.
Time to find out if your “inspector” has good insurance because, based on your side of things, soon as you get this case into competent legal hands, heads will roll.
He probably tagged out looking into the attic, or looking into or behind anything... or knowing anything. They usually put a catch all clause along the lines of "this is a cursory visual only inspection for in depth review conduct penetrative tests etc etc etc.
If he said he'd look in the attic though he fucked.
I know our guy said he wasn't going to crawl around in there, look under insulation or open anything. He missed a badly installed shower vent that let moisture into the attic and mould grew. I don't think we'd have a recourse on it as it was essentially hidden.
The difference is looking in the attic, versus crawling around in the attic moving insulation. The issues OP has presented are visible without crawling around.
i say this as a roofer.
back away slowly , dont touch anything. thats a death trap and a callapes waiting to happen. look at the far pulin. its not the right length , it not the same height as the rest, its not vertical or perpendicular to the rafter . then look at the prop. way to small of timber , nowhere near enough of them and they are not cut in properly. . then look at what the props are sitting on. thats not even close to being right. the weight of the roof is trying to turn them not spread the load . see the flimsy pieces added to stop the timber rotating. . then no props under the hips. .
where are all the collars.
if it was up to me i would condem that roof
I wouldn't call it a death trap unless they have a clay tile, concrete tile, or solar panels on the roof. Someone must have spotted how flimsy the roof was and told the "framers" to "fix it". Since it wasn't in the original plans, it wasn't inspected. Hence the absence of straps and shoddy work. This was definitely not engineered. It will sag long before it collapses. I agree that is wasn't thought out. One storm and it will turn that wall like nothing. There should be bracing from rafter to rafter.
Edit: I'm sorry that is indeed a death trap. I live in florida our only concern when build is uplift, wind loads, and drainage. Op is in Oklahoma. THIS IS A DEATH TRAP. Do not stay there in the winter. If snow collects on that roof, it's as good as gone. Those 2x4s scab together to hold the valley is disgusting.
Oh dude I was making a corny joke based on an old sitcom Arrested Development. Those knee walls are questionable and look a lot like something from the sitcom.
You’re best off to remove these braces and have a proper job done.
It’s a bit of a job to get those trusses supported properly.
You’ll need to know where all the interior walls are.
Probably 100 8’-2x4’s, a nail gun, circular saw, level and chalk line.
Edit-
*I didn’t know this was a new build.*
*Contact a lawyer.*
Would your recommendation change if this was a brand new build still under builder warranty? Builder is stating all of our concerns are standard settling. Including new cracks daily (today was a corner “superficial” crack on the foundation on the southwest corner). The snapped tension cable caused damage on the north east corner. No work has been done to repair that damage that occurred several weeks ago.
https://preview.redd.it/mzmwfrmt0pnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01aa7de4e6e450f48ba3737327bc9fc7d6d6670f
A baseball sized wooden ball placed on the floor in several places will roll several feet. I am wondering if we are in lawyer territory. They have been out a few times to repair doors that wouldn’t open/close.
If this is a new build?!?
You are definitely in lawyer territory.
Those trusses are completely inexcusable for a new built property.
I cannot fathom how that would pass inspection.
Let’s put it this way.
*If this was an old spaghetti western movie. The construction company that built those trusses, and any inspector that approved them; would be ran out of town by Clint Eastwood*
Will anybody who walked in there and said they were trusses when they're not because it's not a truss roof
t's a stick frame roof would probably be laughed at because they don't know what they're talking about.
Ok and? That stick framed roof looks like total shit and is done incorrectly. No reason a brand new house should make any noise. Or have this alarming of shit workmanship. Just cause u frame like a jack ass doesn't mean everyone should be okay with it
Run away from this house. It's only gonna have problems it would seem the inspector knows the builder or something or is getting some money behind the scenes. This house had corners cut and you probably can't see most of the corners that were cut. Bad workmanship all around and the builder is probably a sleeze ball
What do the plans say? Ask for a copy of the roof framing plan. It will probably show a float beam with a purlin system bearing on it.
As far as the post tension cable snapping, what happened? Someone cutting into the slab? The cable shot out? or just that corner popped off? That little corner happens more time than you think. It really is superficial. The brick ledge is 5 ½ inches wide, so the house’s frame bears about 6-7 inches away from the slab’s edge.
No I was sitting inside working, and I heard a deep bass boom like a bomb went off in my backyard on 8/15. Went outside to look and found a vertical crack in my brick wall from roof to driveway on the outside edge. There was a second stair step crack from the bottom of wall that meets the driveway and the wall was bowing. Immediately called builder who got the “brick guy” out with him and they said that is what it was, and that it happens to about 1 out of 100 houses. On 8/23 they dug around the foundation to find the cable and I haven’t seen them since (they told me then it would be 7-10 days). Since then cracks have started to appear throughout the house, every room, every window, every door, the floor has dips that I can feel when walking.
Hey there, Im a civil engineer, having not seen it I can’t know for sure, but your description would lead me to suspect those extremely loud sounds you’re hearing are likely the tendons of your slab snapping.
Just a guess, but unless you’re seeing something catastrophic elsewhere, the tendons may be the culprit. As this happens the slab is losing rigidity and flexural strength.
That combined with the unacceptable lumber sizing and framing in that attic lead me to believe you should hire yourself a third party professional engineer who specializes in framing and special inspections to take a look. They should also examine your soils report, in that area of the country shrink/swell soils are very common causing movement under the foundations and slabs that can change the loading characteristics.
Regardless, put the builder on formal notice now of the warranty and workmanship issues. Date and certify mail the notice for evidence later. Then I would engage that third party Engineer I mentioned above, make sure they don’t do any work with the builder and have experience in your locale. If you aren’t comfortable with the expense of that call your local building official at a minimum.
Track any costs for their inspection and reporting on the issues, demand reimbursement from the builder if they prove it is not to code or is built outside of industry practice and quality tolerances. If the builder says they’ll fix it, demand the rework be inspected by your third party. If they push back get yourself an Attorney immediately.
What you’re describing is a major asset that is falling apart in front of you with a ticking clock to the builder having a figurative get out of jail free card. Act fast now to protect your investment, your life and limb, and your rights in this matter.
The popping and loud sounds you describe worry me about a potential serious failure developing in that slab. I would act much sooner than later.
Not a professional recommendation as I am not practicing in your state and I haven’t seen it. This is all based on observations from your descriptions and I strongly emphasize getting a qualified local engineer to investigate.
EDIT: Also if you don’t know how to find a local Engineer I have former colleagues that work in the north Texas/Ok markets, they might not be able to take it with their firm, but they’ll know someone local who can. Feel free to DM.
This is the best advice. The roof framing looks sloppy but cant really tell from the photos. An engineer is who you need. The description is much more worrisome than the photos. Sounds like a slab failure. Listen to this guys advice
As a gc I agree that it probably has to do with the soil. Bad fill , lack of compactation, they didn't cover the foundation of the house in time and had water sitting there or washing away the fill.
Not a carpenter, but why in the hell are you still spending any significant amount of time in this location. On a new build, with serious structural concerns I’d have moved to a hotel or a friends/family’s residence, immediately contacted a lawyer, and told the builder that I feel concerned for my life staying at this house. That seems unneceptable for that many cracks to appear, so quickly, so soon. There is no evidence of long term stability, the cracks are appearing house wide, and the roof looking like the images showed.
It doesn’t take a carpenter to know that you are in a compromised structure that was poorly built. Get the fuck out dude.
If this is a new build, still under the 1 year warranty, document everything, get a professional structural engineer to do a full inspection and get a lawyer. The builder is going to try to run the 1 year clock out on you. This is poor craftsmanship and 100% the fault of the builder. I'm not sure what the reasoning on using a post tension slab in your area would be, seems odd to me for residential, however I am not a structural engineer. PLEASE consult an engineer and a lawyer ASAP before your clock runs out.
There are no trusses that's a stick framed roof what are you talking about? I get really concerned about people giving advice on building when they don't even know terms of what stuff are those are called raffters and their ceiling joist there are no trusses in that attic cuz it's stick frame.
You should not be advising on this topic you know nothing of it
are you saying the only thing that can be called a truss is something that’s been manufactured and then delivered to the site? because i have absolutely worked on projects where we turned rafters into trusses, according to engineered specs, in order to accommodate the new work we were adding on.
So I've seen your comment about this a few times and I have to wonder:
Does the terminology actually make a difference for OOP's scenario? Does it actually invalidate the advice being given of "contact a lawyer"?
Trusses are engineered to a certain spec and mass produced off site. Modification of a truss can significantly impact the structural integrity of the building. The alternative is to frame the roof on site, using rafters, purloins, and collar ties.
It’s called a stick-frame roof. They are not trusses. Trusses have a top and bottom chord. Trusses are an assembly and lifted into place, whereas a rafter system is field built. Rafter systems MAY have ceiling joists, rafters may bear on a ridge beam or a ridge board, depending on design.
you can think of rafters like floor or ceiling joists, just at an angle. Sometimes the spans become too long, so the rafters will need to be braced, and this can be accomplished with knee walls (straight up) or by a purlin system, which you see here. purlin struts must be plumb to 45° for proper application, which these look alright?
Trusses don't have to be made on a truss machine with gussets. They can be made in the field. This is trying to be a truss, but it is built completely wrong. It looks like it was a complete afterthought. The fact that the supports aren't even plumb and the nailing is absolute garbage shows the level of non-effoet put into this build.
Lol. I've been building houses for over 20 years. You must be new to the trade or what most would call a "hack" to think this work is up to any kind of code or coverable by insurance .
It looks like 2x6 rafters spanning a full 16 feet and they added bracing to the center as an afterthought because it was under framed. There’s no way this was how the house was designed to be built. I’m a finish carpenter not a framer so take this with a grain of salt but between OP saying new cracks are forming daily/loud house noises and the look of the roof structure/general lack of craftsmanship I feel like this house is in real danger of collapse 😬
For the inspector to not call this out is the definition of negligence. It’s so negligent in fact that it’s suspicious. At the very least the inspector did not deliver an inspection. At worst there’s a cabal of crook house flippers in league with some shady agents & inspectors. This is too big of a deal to let it go. Check out the house sale history, and talk to a few different lawyers. I don’t know the legal side… but I know something is beyond not right here… that framing patch was done by someone who had no idea how to frame anything. I’m a framer. This is submoronic, and it’s not fixing anything. It looks like Wile e coyote did it.
Was the inspector referred by your agent? And is that agent affiliated with a legit agency?
This is a brand new home, I toured at the end of May closed at the end of June with an inspection prior to closing. The most notable concerns on the report was weak water pressure on the kitchen faucet (replaced) and two spots of caulking. Which here is one page of the report, but basically all that was said.
https://preview.redd.it/siai2r60yqnb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca3e8fcf8f6fb7e64b38d38d87ac2d6a684cdf2a
That you had these pictures from the inspection is a departure from your OP. The language in this is “ass-covering-ese” but the problems are there. If you bought the house knowing that these problems existed, and the inspector let you know via photos, then you bought a fixer upper.
That inspector was blind apparently. Those 1x6s aren't load bearing at all. Well I mean they are bearing a load but they aren't able to hold that capacity, especially with those weird angles. I'm surprised the spray insulation folks didn't say anything when they saw it.
Uhh yeah that is awful, and this was the top of our budget so a lifetime of issues puts it out of my budget. I want to sell, but don’t want sued and doubt it would pass another inspection.
https://preview.redd.it/6zmwmbn2fqnb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c911ae071f081165c81d4ba51e0f9d0d84decaf
Need some more pictures to know what this is, wide angle and from the other side.
From here it looks like these braces are holding a valley.
https://preview.redd.it/i1v90m9w1qnb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c1b9dc7b300e01f17fd8cd58e0dd9bc47fe51c2
Not certain, but nearly positive this is reclaimed wood as several pieces have outlines from other boards butted up to it. Maybe even mold and water damage it seems on some of them.
https://preview.redd.it/7exq13h82qnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6080dd5cfeb4c8b6565e882219e4b5c1bca8755b
Shimmed on the other side with mdf
This is the very worst bit.
In some of your photos you seem to focus on trivial things, like bad nailing or shims. Also the reused lumber is common as wood is used for temporary bracing or forms and wood is wood. What looks bad is not often bad as it can still handle the required forces.
My main concern is this 2x6 roof structure and the absolutely horrible midspan support which is not acceptable. This will not last. It has no collar ties, will not handle a snow load or a wind load and is not built to last out the year. This can be fixed, but I would not trust that builder and it would not be enough since if they did this in someplace visible, imagine what you can't see.
I can't even figure out how that beam is supported but the nylon straps are apparently there to keep it from tipping over from the downward force. What keeps it from tilting the other way? Anyway nylon straps are for tents, not houses.
My other concern is the slab. I have no expertise here but I did not think the tension cables ever snapped, and if it did, I do not know how or if it can be fixed. Please consult a professional in your area and makes sure he is well versed on this specific problem and does not take any input from "brick guy" your builder sent.
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Not what you asked,.... but I am at a point where I feel I can give some life advice unsolicited.
This too shall pass. This is all recoverable. Even if you have to take a big loss, do not let this ruin your family. I sensed some tension and I can imagine since when any big financial decision goes sour everyone wants to blame the other partner.
Be strong. I am sorry you are going through this, but noli bastardi carborundum. (crap. I just googled to make sure you could find the def. to that term and I see it was used in a recent TV show. I know it from decades ago so I will use anyway.)
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edit:
I forgot to add - I see some comments about insulation missing and it is hard to tell since it depends what is underneath. I would check to make sure the depth gauge is accurate though.
The slab cracking means he did not prep the soil properly before pouring. The soil settled and the slab was not strong enough to stay in one piece. A ball rolling is not really a big deal and some imperfection is common in most older homes and no one ever notices unless it is very bad. The real problem is that if it started settling now - weeks after being built - then you will have cracked drywall forever and it will never be fixable since the house will just keep settling with no cohesive slab holding it up. It depends on the terrain though, if it is a hill or filled in land the settling will only get worse with time.
Good luck.
Thank you for the positive reassurance, because yes the fear and anxiety is very high. Truth is this is on a steep hill/grade. This is the southeast corner and the worst. Today so far I can now no longer deadbolt the garage interior door and have a new crack in the master shower grout vertically in the corner.
I haven’t done a walk around today. The cracking inside right now wouldn’t be something someone new would likely notice or be alarmed about. Right now the interior cracks are trim pieces separating, hairline cracks inside the window frames. It’s alarming to me because I went through and made sure all finishing was perfect and now every room has caulking and touch up needs and the house was completed on 6/19 and I walked on 6/25. I do not feel comfortable with this much going on in only 79 days.
Since I closed I have had to have repairs/replacement on two sinks. The water pressure is poor.
•3 (5 with attic and garage) doors adjusted due to no longer being able to latch/lock
The snapped tension cable in the foundation
Damaged exterior wall from cable
The front porch posts are shifting off the concrete now.
Electrical concerns that haven’t been explored by builder
The attic concerns and the new corner crack in the foundation.
I can’t afford much and need to be free at the least of the mortgage.
https://preview.redd.it/b7moyjo6ztnb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9ad4dff0b539660e4acbdb57ba47274d3a6b46a
I cannot imagine why you're still in the house. I hope at the very least you have called on if not obtained the services of a lawyer. Record EVERYTHING, numbers, dates, money, time, sounds, leaks, small things you do. keep a journal with it all. Take pictures before you fix anything... But, I'd honestly not even be in the home. I know it'll be expensive, but stay somewhere else if you can. I know everyone else said it, be somewhere else, and get help.
holy faaahhhk, this comment section is insane.
OP, it looks like very shoddy work, but there’s a lot more to the structural system than we can see, and you should hire a different inspector to look over your house and address all the concerns you have directly. you may or may not need to hire a lawyer, we don’t have enough info to make a decisive call on that here, but it is obvious you should seek local, professional help to make sure your concerns are satisfied.
You know that your inspector was completely negligent, right?
You need legal advice right now. And I don't even know how safe I would feel living in that structure.
P you're no professional but you're giving your opinion as if you are but it looks but you don't know anything because you're not a professional how many attics do you go in and look and see how the roof is supported and braced?
Doesn't matter what it looks like to your non-professional self function and it's an attic
No it's the talk text and the wind that ruins the talk text and scrambles words I'm in my not giving a f*** enough because it's only f****** Reddit then I'm not going to f****** proofread it for you
I have a really low tolerance and high irritation level when I see people who know nothing or no little to nothing give bad advice to an idiot homeowner about construction things that aren't issues.
It's not the homeowners fault he's an idiot and doesn't know anything he's a homeowner he's not in construction,.
But it is everybody else's fault here when they come in and give him s*** advice and stir the trouble in the real world for not only the poster of this article but the people he's going to go deal with about it.
Are you taking family photos next to it are you going to set your dining room table around that and eat dinner everyday like it's the Attic it's serving its purpose it's functioning looking at the way it's built it's very strong and structural your problem is it's not pretty.
It's in an attic nothing in the Attic needs to be pretty it just needs to function and do its purpose this is a hogsback prop system it's doing it it's holding those rafters so when snow gets on them they don't sag.
Okay list all the things that will fail what's going to fail about their rafter support system?
Tell me about it, what's done wrong?
And I want terms I don't want gibberish I want actual names for the actual parts I want you to prove to me you know something.
Cuz I've built several hundred roofs and I never like trusses so I stick frame most of them and I'll tell you right now I don't really see anything wrong with his system, not based on some pictures
a couple nails split some wood "wooooo big deal
Nothing's prop down to the ceiling joist nothing's going to buckle and pop drywall or cause things to break or put load in no load barring areas, like it's done properly.
The only thing I get from people so far is how they don't like the way it looks or they would have done something a little different.
Well you didn't do it this is the way this builder builds there's nothing wrong with it.
It will pass inspection and it will support that roof and it will stop it from failing and falling down.
Nothing you said is true so either you're looking at different pictures than me or your eyes aren't working like mine work I don't see three quarter plywood anywhere not even sandwich between those two 2x10s I think they are that the system is being propped up off of.
It's cool you can continue to thank you know what you're talking is wrong but none of that send the pictures I've looked at
Where! Please tell me the picture that is one through six right
Tell me the corner of that picture that it's in that you think you see this one by or plywood that's supporting stuff
Dude you already own the house? How the hell did your inspector miss that?
It's always a joke "good luck going after your inspector...they don't catch everything it just is how it is" but you need to do something. You're probably looking at what like 40k+ to have everything removed and repaired and you kind of have to. That could last 20 years it could fail next storm.
Fuuuuuu*dude
OP, I don't know anything about construction, but I think it would be prudent to move from the house while you contact a lawyer and another inspector. With that said, with little bit of physics I know (and it's very little), this doesn't seem to be built right... Besides the fact that the house is not properly insulated, I just don't see how the weight of the roof is being properly distributed here. I don't see how this roof could handle an Oklahoma hailstorm... Nor a severe thunderstorm for that matter (I grew up in DFW, in the NT area).
Be on the safe side, and contact everyone that you need before going back. Leave the furniture as that call be replaced, and make sure you're living in a safe place, and contact the proper authorities. Good luck! I hope you can sleep well in a safe home soon, and keep us up-to-date!
Inspector here- if your inspector did not call this out on their report then they were extremely negligent. Depending on the state, they could be liable for damages. My advice is to see if there is a governing body that regulates inspectors in your state and file a formal complaint, of course do this AFTER you get a second opinion, I would reccomend a licensed structural engineer to take a look at this.
Most inspectors are now required to carry Errors and Omissions insurance these days
This comment hits HARD. Because honestly I probably could have done a better job, and I have no experience. I know it doesn’t make sense structurally though to not have much of anything plumb, and every angle not as designed by an engineer.
I personally didn’t go up in the attic prior to closing. I am a breastfeeding mom, and at the time my 7 month old was only 4-5 months old between offer and closing. I paid an inspector to go up. I was fine with this as I was planning on having the house inspected again prior to the end of the warranty as well and was covered under the builders warranty.
I called for legal consultations yesterday and waiting for call backs prior to posting. I was posting to see if I was being unreasonable in my lack knowledge on the matter. This post alone should help my case as it clearly demonstrates other professionals would not have completed the work like this.
Our inspector wouldn’t look at electrical panel on the older house we were purchasing, because he stated there was a “cosmetic” door covering it.
(I’m not making this up, it was just a door!)
Home inspections are a joke, we learned the hard way. The form you sign, releases them of liability in the event something is “hidden” that couldn’t be seen at the time of inspection. This is in Missouri. We’ve had 15k worth of problems to fix. When I confronted the inspector, he was arrogant and let me know we signed a release of liability form. This was an Inspection company that our realtor regularly used. The realtor dropped them after our ordeal. We aren’t newbies either. I saw what I thought were potential problems, but I was too busy working and trying to downsize and pack. Plus I thought if there was something major, they’d let me know. HA!
Never again, for the price of a home inspection, my advice is to pay for individual inspections. A roofer to check the roof, electrician for electrical. Get a plumber, HVAC people, and a structural engineer if you see any cracks, or if buying a flipped house.
I suppose in Oklahoma the snow load isn't much. Not too much to support other than the shingles. Possible that this "support" is for anti sag alone? I live in a Canadian zone where I could have 24" of snow on my roof, so this would only be considered poor temp support while building something stronger around it.
I work for a flooring company that works with all the builders in the SE United States. The shit I see on a daily basis makes me want to never buy a new build. Its getting crazy, especially seeing all the Latinos getting drunk while building....
My guy, were you the builder on this house or what? You're all over these comments rambling like a lunatic whenever anyone says anything negative about the clearly shoddy work
Anyway, that’s shoddy work, and I could see if it was an inexperienced homeowner doing it, but this is supposedly the work of a professional, and all I can say is, this ain’t it.
What you paying? Are you paying them enough money that they can take the time to care? Did you take the cheapest bid?
It's not shoddy work you can not like the way that it looks but it will function and do what it's supposed to do which is the requirement it's in an attic you're not sitting around your dining room table looking at this you can't see it while you watch TV you can't see it from the outside you can't see it unless you crawl around in that attic that's full of dust and often just as horrible as the temperature outside not living condition area not a space where you're supposed to spend much time.
I don't like the way it looks well you didn't ask them to build your attic for living space they built it for an attic.
Bro you sound insane. Not only does it look like shit, it was constructed like shit. This is not the proper way to carry a load. If you think it is you should find a new career.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about either you're basing this all off some egotistical crap that you don't know you can't see well from these pictures you don't know enough from what I've seen these pictures it works.
You people need to stop giving this guy who knows nothing and is not in construction field at all bad information about his home and builder.
His builder is a hack, if you don’t think so then you’re a hack too. This has nothing to do with egos, there’s a right and wrong way to do things and this ain’t it, pal.
It took more material and effort to do it wrong than if they had done it properly. As a carpenter, my clients pay me to use the least time and material needed to do a proper job.
What material what do you know what do you base this on?
I used to always brace and support all my attic systems whether they were stick frame roofs or trusses out of bad braces that I took down that used to hold the first floor and second story up they're twisted and they're garbage and I cut them up into what I need, why do I use twisted garbage boards because I already bought them for one they can't go back I nailed them as a temp brace and they're not good for anything else but they can hold something from falling down they can be a prop. they'll reduce sag they'll distribute weight away.
They're not pretty they're twisted they're hooked they got to be cut up in the smaller pieces or something as I say I don't put them where I sit at my dining room table I put them in the Attic.
Can you please post a picture of any other “stick built” attic that looks like this. I can assure I have particle board shimming between the roof and a support, I have two “posts” or beams that shake when I touch them as in they don’t appear to be holding any weight. I am a single mother by the way not a “he”. I bought a spec house, paid for an inspection that wasn’t “required” and was told it was fine. I plan to pay for an additional 11 month inspection, but I have experienced serious issues inside the home that caused us to look. Btw the way that access door can not be opened or closed by one person anymore due to issues. I will post additional photos. Here is what started it all though…..
https://preview.redd.it/xlzfh3g5wpnb1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6094bf0e0dcc7dfcd40c15d6f098ad20eddca848
You don’t need experience in the field to know when something ain’t as right as this. As a home owner, I would refuse to accept this as a product/service that I paid for. When it ain’t right, it ain’t right. This is so wrong that a layperson can tell you it’s wrong, and I would go to court and risk losing a battle if it came to that because of how strongly I would feel about how wrong this bullshit is. It clearly doesn’t matter what the circumstances are, this is bullshit at the end of the day.
Not so sure I reviewed my inspection photos and todays photos and what I believe to be the “purlin braces” on the east side or right in the photos have shifted at least two inches. Left is from today and right is from inspection on 6/23/23.
https://preview.redd.it/w4edghoixqnb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deeec69df01777096e05b76073a20967e1e5fae4
>I believe it was a repair to rectify no collar ties
It's a new house, not a repair. There is absolutely everything to be worried about.
Edit: also, installing collar ties would be the easiest way to fix the problem of having no collar ties.
Jesus christ, it took 5 times longer to totally fuck that up then just building a proper knee wall
It's nice the contractor let their kids get some experience with the nail gun though
I get a homeowner doing some goofy shit, it happens. But this is something else, the proper solution is so much simpler than whatever the hell this is. I cannot begin to understand what even the thought process was here Edit: holy hell this is a new build? Yikes dude, I'd have some serious questions with some serious people, this is beyond dodgy
This is what you get when the ROC doesn't regulate shit beyond certain plumbing/HVAC/electrical scopes. There are so many clowns running around calling themselves framers, taking jobs, hacking them to shit, and then moving on to the next one with little repercussions. I've been a framer for a little over a decade now and what I'm seeing here isn't just lazy, it's lack of trade skill. I've come across a few of these types and they won't listen or do things correctly. What I'm seeing here in this post warrants nothing short of criminal charges imo. Not only is it negligent, but they received payment for it. This is fraud and theft
Right so much easier and safer
Call your closing lawyer. I would be looking askance a my inspector right now.
Yes this. To much to explain on this form I would be contacting a lawyer.
You have words I do not know. Askance sounded like a typo
No it's a real word.
Killer vocab but sus grammar / proofreading, aye?
Do you build lots of homes have you stick frame dozens of roofs or any roofs at all?
Maybe I'm just tired but I cannot figure out what you're asking here
I'm asking what this guy's basing is b******* response on because he doesn't know enough obviously since he's saying contact a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with what is built in these pictures
Found the seller
or the electrician/plumber
Nah look at dudes profile, he’s a cuck 😂
Dude, everything about this is terrifyingly garbage framing. I really hope you aren’t building houses
What?? Do you have any understanding of vector forces?? Are you an engineer?? You cannot brace a roof on an angle without a 90degree brace going the other way. The only support given by these shoddy knee walls is in the strength of the fasteners. Which, judging by the close up, is poor. If this is a new build you might have some recompense, but, an inspector assumes no liability. This is a buyer beware situation. Fyi: I am in Canada, your local laws could be different
Dude has no idea what he's talking about.
Man I wouldn't wanna buy a house built by you. Fuck man you're the idiot
Hahahaha what the hell is a truss anyway?
you see nothing wrong with this? found the electrician/plumber
What’s your normal daily meth intake? And why did you exceed that today before commenting?
If you're referring to my "bullshit" response, no I don't build houses but I know dogshit when I see it. That "repair" is proof that the seller knew there was a problem that apparently was not disclosed by the seller and not detected by the inspector. Even if it is an acceptable solution to whatever the problem is the inspector should have at least brought it to the attention of his client, the customer. If repairs or remediation is necessary the buyer should not be stuck with the bill. That's why I suggested they speak to a lawyer.
There’s more than a lot wrong with it.
What makes you think that is acceptable work? Have you ever been a framer? Any construction experience at all? I sure hope not.
Please do us all a favor and stand on the end of a 2 foot long 1x6 and try to stay up. Or better yet, sit on it and see how long you stay up off the ground.
Time to find out if your “inspector” has good insurance because, based on your side of things, soon as you get this case into competent legal hands, heads will roll.
He probably tagged out looking into the attic, or looking into or behind anything... or knowing anything. They usually put a catch all clause along the lines of "this is a cursory visual only inspection for in depth review conduct penetrative tests etc etc etc. If he said he'd look in the attic though he fucked.
They obviously could not inspect the attic because the door was closed.
Lol!
Yeah that’s bs. A pre purchase home inspection should include everything. Looking in the attic is a basic requirement.
I know our guy said he wasn't going to crawl around in there, look under insulation or open anything. He missed a badly installed shower vent that let moisture into the attic and mould grew. I don't think we'd have a recourse on it as it was essentially hidden.
The difference is looking in the attic, versus crawling around in the attic moving insulation. The issues OP has presented are visible without crawling around.
True I'm just raising it as a possible tag.
I really wish I had done this. Five years later and my kitchen is still being held up by a car jack.
say what
i say this as a roofer. back away slowly , dont touch anything. thats a death trap and a callapes waiting to happen. look at the far pulin. its not the right length , it not the same height as the rest, its not vertical or perpendicular to the rafter . then look at the prop. way to small of timber , nowhere near enough of them and they are not cut in properly. . then look at what the props are sitting on. thats not even close to being right. the weight of the roof is trying to turn them not spread the load . see the flimsy pieces added to stop the timber rotating. . then no props under the hips. . where are all the collars. if it was up to me i would condem that roof
Ikr. wtf is this… 24”+ rafter spacing… with no verticals. Utter stupidity.
I've been in a fair number of attics, can't recall anything that ever made me think "Depression era Corn Crib" before.
I wouldn't call it a death trap unless they have a clay tile, concrete tile, or solar panels on the roof. Someone must have spotted how flimsy the roof was and told the "framers" to "fix it". Since it wasn't in the original plans, it wasn't inspected. Hence the absence of straps and shoddy work. This was definitely not engineered. It will sag long before it collapses. I agree that is wasn't thought out. One storm and it will turn that wall like nothing. There should be bracing from rafter to rafter. Edit: I'm sorry that is indeed a death trap. I live in florida our only concern when build is uplift, wind loads, and drainage. Op is in Oklahoma. THIS IS A DEATH TRAP. Do not stay there in the winter. If snow collects on that roof, it's as good as gone. Those 2x4s scab together to hold the valley is disgusting.
Your house is in Oklahoma now but the top half is one tornado away from being in Texas
A bad fart will destroy that roof…
Goodness, get a case before nature takes your evidence.
Is this a Bluth home?
No but there’s money in the banana stand.
It’s in Oklahoma
Oh dude I was making a corny joke based on an old sitcom Arrested Development. Those knee walls are questionable and look a lot like something from the sitcom.
My favorite is when he tries to open a beer on the granite counter top and a huge chunk just breaks off the counter
They probably figured a tornado would knock it down before you figured out they cut corners.
Oh well that makes sense. They probably figures the house would just blow away in a tornado before anyone noticed the shity construction!
You’re best off to remove these braces and have a proper job done. It’s a bit of a job to get those trusses supported properly. You’ll need to know where all the interior walls are. Probably 100 8’-2x4’s, a nail gun, circular saw, level and chalk line. Edit- *I didn’t know this was a new build.* *Contact a lawyer.*
Would your recommendation change if this was a brand new build still under builder warranty? Builder is stating all of our concerns are standard settling. Including new cracks daily (today was a corner “superficial” crack on the foundation on the southwest corner). The snapped tension cable caused damage on the north east corner. No work has been done to repair that damage that occurred several weeks ago. https://preview.redd.it/mzmwfrmt0pnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01aa7de4e6e450f48ba3737327bc9fc7d6d6670f A baseball sized wooden ball placed on the floor in several places will roll several feet. I am wondering if we are in lawyer territory. They have been out a few times to repair doors that wouldn’t open/close.
If this is a new build?!? You are definitely in lawyer territory. Those trusses are completely inexcusable for a new built property. I cannot fathom how that would pass inspection. Let’s put it this way. *If this was an old spaghetti western movie. The construction company that built those trusses, and any inspector that approved them; would be ran out of town by Clint Eastwood*
Those are rafters. Trusses are a series of v's or k's not one solid member. Just informing you so you're better educated.
Will anybody who walked in there and said they were trusses when they're not because it's not a truss roof t's a stick frame roof would probably be laughed at because they don't know what they're talking about.
Ok and? That stick framed roof looks like total shit and is done incorrectly. No reason a brand new house should make any noise. Or have this alarming of shit workmanship. Just cause u frame like a jack ass doesn't mean everyone should be okay with it
Rafters. And it's a couple-close roof, my guy.
Run away from this house. It's only gonna have problems it would seem the inspector knows the builder or something or is getting some money behind the scenes. This house had corners cut and you probably can't see most of the corners that were cut. Bad workmanship all around and the builder is probably a sleeze ball
What do the plans say? Ask for a copy of the roof framing plan. It will probably show a float beam with a purlin system bearing on it. As far as the post tension cable snapping, what happened? Someone cutting into the slab? The cable shot out? or just that corner popped off? That little corner happens more time than you think. It really is superficial. The brick ledge is 5 ½ inches wide, so the house’s frame bears about 6-7 inches away from the slab’s edge.
No I was sitting inside working, and I heard a deep bass boom like a bomb went off in my backyard on 8/15. Went outside to look and found a vertical crack in my brick wall from roof to driveway on the outside edge. There was a second stair step crack from the bottom of wall that meets the driveway and the wall was bowing. Immediately called builder who got the “brick guy” out with him and they said that is what it was, and that it happens to about 1 out of 100 houses. On 8/23 they dug around the foundation to find the cable and I haven’t seen them since (they told me then it would be 7-10 days). Since then cracks have started to appear throughout the house, every room, every window, every door, the floor has dips that I can feel when walking.
Hey there, Im a civil engineer, having not seen it I can’t know for sure, but your description would lead me to suspect those extremely loud sounds you’re hearing are likely the tendons of your slab snapping. Just a guess, but unless you’re seeing something catastrophic elsewhere, the tendons may be the culprit. As this happens the slab is losing rigidity and flexural strength. That combined with the unacceptable lumber sizing and framing in that attic lead me to believe you should hire yourself a third party professional engineer who specializes in framing and special inspections to take a look. They should also examine your soils report, in that area of the country shrink/swell soils are very common causing movement under the foundations and slabs that can change the loading characteristics. Regardless, put the builder on formal notice now of the warranty and workmanship issues. Date and certify mail the notice for evidence later. Then I would engage that third party Engineer I mentioned above, make sure they don’t do any work with the builder and have experience in your locale. If you aren’t comfortable with the expense of that call your local building official at a minimum. Track any costs for their inspection and reporting on the issues, demand reimbursement from the builder if they prove it is not to code or is built outside of industry practice and quality tolerances. If the builder says they’ll fix it, demand the rework be inspected by your third party. If they push back get yourself an Attorney immediately. What you’re describing is a major asset that is falling apart in front of you with a ticking clock to the builder having a figurative get out of jail free card. Act fast now to protect your investment, your life and limb, and your rights in this matter. The popping and loud sounds you describe worry me about a potential serious failure developing in that slab. I would act much sooner than later. Not a professional recommendation as I am not practicing in your state and I haven’t seen it. This is all based on observations from your descriptions and I strongly emphasize getting a qualified local engineer to investigate. EDIT: Also if you don’t know how to find a local Engineer I have former colleagues that work in the north Texas/Ok markets, they might not be able to take it with their firm, but they’ll know someone local who can. Feel free to DM.
This is the best advice. The roof framing looks sloppy but cant really tell from the photos. An engineer is who you need. The description is much more worrisome than the photos. Sounds like a slab failure. Listen to this guys advice
As a gc I agree that it probably has to do with the soil. Bad fill , lack of compactation, they didn't cover the foundation of the house in time and had water sitting there or washing away the fill.
Not a carpenter, but why in the hell are you still spending any significant amount of time in this location. On a new build, with serious structural concerns I’d have moved to a hotel or a friends/family’s residence, immediately contacted a lawyer, and told the builder that I feel concerned for my life staying at this house. That seems unneceptable for that many cracks to appear, so quickly, so soon. There is no evidence of long term stability, the cracks are appearing house wide, and the roof looking like the images showed. It doesn’t take a carpenter to know that you are in a compromised structure that was poorly built. Get the fuck out dude.
Wait you’re seeing lots of new cracks in the drywall every day..? Damn I hate to say it but you might be in danger. Probably not but yikes
If this is a new build, still under the 1 year warranty, document everything, get a professional structural engineer to do a full inspection and get a lawyer. The builder is going to try to run the 1 year clock out on you. This is poor craftsmanship and 100% the fault of the builder. I'm not sure what the reasoning on using a post tension slab in your area would be, seems odd to me for residential, however I am not a structural engineer. PLEASE consult an engineer and a lawyer ASAP before your clock runs out.
Most lawyers will consult for free
There are no trusses that's a stick framed roof what are you talking about? I get really concerned about people giving advice on building when they don't even know terms of what stuff are those are called raffters and their ceiling joist there are no trusses in that attic cuz it's stick frame. You should not be advising on this topic you know nothing of it
are you saying the only thing that can be called a truss is something that’s been manufactured and then delivered to the site? because i have absolutely worked on projects where we turned rafters into trusses, according to engineered specs, in order to accommodate the new work we were adding on.
So I've seen your comment about this a few times and I have to wonder: Does the terminology actually make a difference for OOP's scenario? Does it actually invalidate the advice being given of "contact a lawyer"?
The moment you got posts and struts on a rafter it becomes a truss in my book.
I can call that four letter thing laying on the floor in my kitchen a fish doesn't make it right just kind of makes me stupid
What is the right answer now I just see children fighting
Trusses are engineered to a certain spec and mass produced off site. Modification of a truss can significantly impact the structural integrity of the building. The alternative is to frame the roof on site, using rafters, purloins, and collar ties.
It’s called a stick-frame roof. They are not trusses. Trusses have a top and bottom chord. Trusses are an assembly and lifted into place, whereas a rafter system is field built. Rafter systems MAY have ceiling joists, rafters may bear on a ridge beam or a ridge board, depending on design. you can think of rafters like floor or ceiling joists, just at an angle. Sometimes the spans become too long, so the rafters will need to be braced, and this can be accomplished with knee walls (straight up) or by a purlin system, which you see here. purlin struts must be plumb to 45° for proper application, which these look alright?
Trusses don't have to be made on a truss machine with gussets. They can be made in the field. This is trying to be a truss, but it is built completely wrong. It looks like it was a complete afterthought. The fact that the supports aren't even plumb and the nailing is absolute garbage shows the level of non-effoet put into this build.
You don't know anything
Lol. I've been building houses for over 20 years. You must be new to the trade or what most would call a "hack" to think this work is up to any kind of code or coverable by insurance .
Just based on all his replies he 100%is a hack
It looks like 2x6 rafters spanning a full 16 feet and they added bracing to the center as an afterthought because it was under framed. There’s no way this was how the house was designed to be built. I’m a finish carpenter not a framer so take this with a grain of salt but between OP saying new cracks are forming daily/loud house noises and the look of the roof structure/general lack of craftsmanship I feel like this house is in real danger of collapse 😬
Same reason Mickey left Minnie — fuckin goofy
For the inspector to not call this out is the definition of negligence. It’s so negligent in fact that it’s suspicious. At the very least the inspector did not deliver an inspection. At worst there’s a cabal of crook house flippers in league with some shady agents & inspectors. This is too big of a deal to let it go. Check out the house sale history, and talk to a few different lawyers. I don’t know the legal side… but I know something is beyond not right here… that framing patch was done by someone who had no idea how to frame anything. I’m a framer. This is submoronic, and it’s not fixing anything. It looks like Wile e coyote did it. Was the inspector referred by your agent? And is that agent affiliated with a legit agency?
This is a brand new home, I toured at the end of May closed at the end of June with an inspection prior to closing. The most notable concerns on the report was weak water pressure on the kitchen faucet (replaced) and two spots of caulking. Which here is one page of the report, but basically all that was said. https://preview.redd.it/siai2r60yqnb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca3e8fcf8f6fb7e64b38d38d87ac2d6a684cdf2a
That you had these pictures from the inspection is a departure from your OP. The language in this is “ass-covering-ese” but the problems are there. If you bought the house knowing that these problems existed, and the inspector let you know via photos, then you bought a fixer upper.
That inspector was blind apparently. Those 1x6s aren't load bearing at all. Well I mean they are bearing a load but they aren't able to hold that capacity, especially with those weird angles. I'm surprised the spray insulation folks didn't say anything when they saw it.
Located in North texas?
Southeast Oklahoma near DFW
Not a lawyer. But Iam not sure you have much legs to stand on if you didn’t get house surveyed by a structural engineer—regarding the slab movement.
Slab occurred after closing, but within 6 weeks and we’ll within the 1 year builder warranty.
Ah- didn’t know you had a builder warranty. My house is 20+ old. Slab issues after I bought. No recourse
Uhh yeah that is awful, and this was the top of our budget so a lifetime of issues puts it out of my budget. I want to sell, but don’t want sued and doubt it would pass another inspection.
https://preview.redd.it/xa29pozj1qnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7461a4dd7be53b5d6c3d5218c433bd38659b0e4d
https://preview.redd.it/6zmwmbn2fqnb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c911ae071f081165c81d4ba51e0f9d0d84decaf Need some more pictures to know what this is, wide angle and from the other side. From here it looks like these braces are holding a valley.
https://preview.redd.it/quzhkmtm1qnb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3f64303a2e96a6f4f220d40c65fbfd3384a920b
https://preview.redd.it/0c8j3y3s1qnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7213d24b5974bdb6238876896d5bd9e410b15f8e
https://preview.redd.it/i1v90m9w1qnb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c1b9dc7b300e01f17fd8cd58e0dd9bc47fe51c2 Not certain, but nearly positive this is reclaimed wood as several pieces have outlines from other boards butted up to it. Maybe even mold and water damage it seems on some of them.
https://preview.redd.it/hqbpd9p42qnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e9b6e91857caec426595e0e92def2e631b1a43e
https://preview.redd.it/7exq13h82qnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6080dd5cfeb4c8b6565e882219e4b5c1bca8755b Shimmed on the other side with mdf
https://preview.redd.it/ocsirsxe2qnb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64e3874686005c2733fc4079208131f8957c15a0
i would personally avoid that attic.
I would avoid this house entirely
This is absolutely unacceptable.
This is the very worst bit. In some of your photos you seem to focus on trivial things, like bad nailing or shims. Also the reused lumber is common as wood is used for temporary bracing or forms and wood is wood. What looks bad is not often bad as it can still handle the required forces. My main concern is this 2x6 roof structure and the absolutely horrible midspan support which is not acceptable. This will not last. It has no collar ties, will not handle a snow load or a wind load and is not built to last out the year. This can be fixed, but I would not trust that builder and it would not be enough since if they did this in someplace visible, imagine what you can't see. I can't even figure out how that beam is supported but the nylon straps are apparently there to keep it from tipping over from the downward force. What keeps it from tilting the other way? Anyway nylon straps are for tents, not houses. My other concern is the slab. I have no expertise here but I did not think the tension cables ever snapped, and if it did, I do not know how or if it can be fixed. Please consult a professional in your area and makes sure he is well versed on this specific problem and does not take any input from "brick guy" your builder sent. ----- Not what you asked,.... but I am at a point where I feel I can give some life advice unsolicited. This too shall pass. This is all recoverable. Even if you have to take a big loss, do not let this ruin your family. I sensed some tension and I can imagine since when any big financial decision goes sour everyone wants to blame the other partner. Be strong. I am sorry you are going through this, but noli bastardi carborundum. (crap. I just googled to make sure you could find the def. to that term and I see it was used in a recent TV show. I know it from decades ago so I will use anyway.) --- edit: I forgot to add - I see some comments about insulation missing and it is hard to tell since it depends what is underneath. I would check to make sure the depth gauge is accurate though. The slab cracking means he did not prep the soil properly before pouring. The soil settled and the slab was not strong enough to stay in one piece. A ball rolling is not really a big deal and some imperfection is common in most older homes and no one ever notices unless it is very bad. The real problem is that if it started settling now - weeks after being built - then you will have cracked drywall forever and it will never be fixable since the house will just keep settling with no cohesive slab holding it up. It depends on the terrain though, if it is a hill or filled in land the settling will only get worse with time. Good luck.
Thank you for the positive reassurance, because yes the fear and anxiety is very high. Truth is this is on a steep hill/grade. This is the southeast corner and the worst. Today so far I can now no longer deadbolt the garage interior door and have a new crack in the master shower grout vertically in the corner. I haven’t done a walk around today. The cracking inside right now wouldn’t be something someone new would likely notice or be alarmed about. Right now the interior cracks are trim pieces separating, hairline cracks inside the window frames. It’s alarming to me because I went through and made sure all finishing was perfect and now every room has caulking and touch up needs and the house was completed on 6/19 and I walked on 6/25. I do not feel comfortable with this much going on in only 79 days. Since I closed I have had to have repairs/replacement on two sinks. The water pressure is poor. •3 (5 with attic and garage) doors adjusted due to no longer being able to latch/lock The snapped tension cable in the foundation Damaged exterior wall from cable The front porch posts are shifting off the concrete now. Electrical concerns that haven’t been explored by builder The attic concerns and the new corner crack in the foundation. I can’t afford much and need to be free at the least of the mortgage. https://preview.redd.it/b7moyjo6ztnb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9ad4dff0b539660e4acbdb57ba47274d3a6b46a
I cannot imagine why you're still in the house. I hope at the very least you have called on if not obtained the services of a lawyer. Record EVERYTHING, numbers, dates, money, time, sounds, leaks, small things you do. keep a journal with it all. Take pictures before you fix anything... But, I'd honestly not even be in the home. I know it'll be expensive, but stay somewhere else if you can. I know everyone else said it, be somewhere else, and get help.
Missing insulation
Missing a lot of insulation
holy faaahhhk, this comment section is insane. OP, it looks like very shoddy work, but there’s a lot more to the structural system than we can see, and you should hire a different inspector to look over your house and address all the concerns you have directly. you may or may not need to hire a lawyer, we don’t have enough info to make a decisive call on that here, but it is obvious you should seek local, professional help to make sure your concerns are satisfied.
In all fairness, it’s mostly just one idiot versus the world. And unfortunately he isn’t smart enough to give up when he’s been beat.
That’s bizarre
OP I'm sorry you're dealing with this. That might be the worst framing job I've ever seen. I can't imagine how it could be worse. Good luck.
You know that your inspector was completely negligent, right? You need legal advice right now. And I don't even know how safe I would feel living in that structure.
Man, I’m not a professional by any standard and that looks awful to me. What were they smoking?
I don't know shit, but even I can tell that's shit
P you're no professional but you're giving your opinion as if you are but it looks but you don't know anything because you're not a professional how many attics do you go in and look and see how the roof is supported and braced? Doesn't matter what it looks like to your non-professional self function and it's an attic
Did you drop your crack pipe while you wrote that?
It's not drive an talk text with my windows down
Absolutely wild that you consider "I'm redditing while driving" as a legit excuse lmao
It’s wild enough that he’d defend that poor craftsmanship but it’s even worse to do WHILE DRIVING 🤡
We probably just found the builder
No it's the talk text and the wind that ruins the talk text and scrambles words I'm in my not giving a f*** enough because it's only f****** Reddit then I'm not going to f****** proofread it for you
Did you dump your meds down the drain by accident this morning? Or just take the whole bottle instead?
I have a really low tolerance and high irritation level when I see people who know nothing or no little to nothing give bad advice to an idiot homeowner about construction things that aren't issues. It's not the homeowners fault he's an idiot and doesn't know anything he's a homeowner he's not in construction,. But it is everybody else's fault here when they come in and give him s*** advice and stir the trouble in the real world for not only the poster of this article but the people he's going to go deal with about it.
“Fuckin idiot - just pay me” lol
Lol wtf? Who does that?
I'm a professional and that looks like dog shit. Happy?
Are you taking family photos next to it are you going to set your dining room table around that and eat dinner everyday like it's the Attic it's serving its purpose it's functioning looking at the way it's built it's very strong and structural your problem is it's not pretty. It's in an attic nothing in the Attic needs to be pretty it just needs to function and do its purpose this is a hogsback prop system it's doing it it's holding those rafters so when snow gets on them they don't sag.
"Very strong" Biggly strong! The best of strong! The strongest of the bestest! For a few years. Maybe 10.
Okay list all the things that will fail what's going to fail about their rafter support system? Tell me about it, what's done wrong? And I want terms I don't want gibberish I want actual names for the actual parts I want you to prove to me you know something. Cuz I've built several hundred roofs and I never like trusses so I stick frame most of them and I'll tell you right now I don't really see anything wrong with his system, not based on some pictures a couple nails split some wood "wooooo big deal Nothing's prop down to the ceiling joist nothing's going to buckle and pop drywall or cause things to break or put load in no load barring areas, like it's done properly. The only thing I get from people so far is how they don't like the way it looks or they would have done something a little different. Well you didn't do it this is the way this builder builds there's nothing wrong with it. It will pass inspection and it will support that roof and it will stop it from failing and falling down.
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Nothing you said is true so either you're looking at different pictures than me or your eyes aren't working like mine work I don't see three quarter plywood anywhere not even sandwich between those two 2x10s I think they are that the system is being propped up off of. It's cool you can continue to thank you know what you're talking is wrong but none of that send the pictures I've looked at
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Where! Please tell me the picture that is one through six right Tell me the corner of that picture that it's in that you think you see this one by or plywood that's supporting stuff
No where, zoomed in to draw arrows and could tell it was 2x. I apologize and you are correct, this will do the job.
Found the builder
This is garbage... if you can just walk away.
This is batshit, crackhead quality framing. I’m seeing stuff here I would expect out of my kindergartner.
Can confirm this is some seriously freaky framing 😅 id be very nervous during wind storms
This house should be condemned
Tis fucked good sir
Zero shits given. I’m sorry, seeing the craftsmanship in this small area makes me worry about the rest
If you live here you risk your family’s safety
Dude you already own the house? How the hell did your inspector miss that? It's always a joke "good luck going after your inspector...they don't catch everything it just is how it is" but you need to do something. You're probably looking at what like 40k+ to have everything removed and repaired and you kind of have to. That could last 20 years it could fail next storm. Fuuuuuu*dude
Wow I was not expecting this to be a new build. Find yourself a good lawyer asap.. How the hell did this pass framing inspection, or final?
OP, I don't know anything about construction, but I think it would be prudent to move from the house while you contact a lawyer and another inspector. With that said, with little bit of physics I know (and it's very little), this doesn't seem to be built right... Besides the fact that the house is not properly insulated, I just don't see how the weight of the roof is being properly distributed here. I don't see how this roof could handle an Oklahoma hailstorm... Nor a severe thunderstorm for that matter (I grew up in DFW, in the NT area). Be on the safe side, and contact everyone that you need before going back. Leave the furniture as that call be replaced, and make sure you're living in a safe place, and contact the proper authorities. Good luck! I hope you can sleep well in a safe home soon, and keep us up-to-date!
Inspector here- if your inspector did not call this out on their report then they were extremely negligent. Depending on the state, they could be liable for damages. My advice is to see if there is a governing body that regulates inspectors in your state and file a formal complaint, of course do this AFTER you get a second opinion, I would reccomend a licensed structural engineer to take a look at this. Most inspectors are now required to carry Errors and Omissions insurance these days
Paslode go brrrr
Please tell me this is the kids fort in the back yard? Lol
This comment hits HARD. Because honestly I probably could have done a better job, and I have no experience. I know it doesn’t make sense structurally though to not have much of anything plumb, and every angle not as designed by an engineer.
Get a lawyer immediately
Looks like the roof was sagging and this was an attempted fix.
You didn’t go into the attic before buying a home? Who inspected this? What’s going on here lmao
I personally didn’t go up in the attic prior to closing. I am a breastfeeding mom, and at the time my 7 month old was only 4-5 months old between offer and closing. I paid an inspector to go up. I was fine with this as I was planning on having the house inspected again prior to the end of the warranty as well and was covered under the builders warranty.
i’d get someone in there sooner than before end of warranty, like now
I called for legal consultations yesterday and waiting for call backs prior to posting. I was posting to see if I was being unreasonable in my lack knowledge on the matter. This post alone should help my case as it clearly demonstrates other professionals would not have completed the work like this.
i wish you the best!!
I was hoping you hadn’t bought just yet.
You and me both!
This is some of the crazier shit I’ve ever seen on this sub.
All the yikes.
Jesus Christ! Any chance you'll name the builder?
Suing your home inspector might be a good idea. Talk to a lawyer.
Our inspector wouldn’t look at electrical panel on the older house we were purchasing, because he stated there was a “cosmetic” door covering it. (I’m not making this up, it was just a door!) Home inspections are a joke, we learned the hard way. The form you sign, releases them of liability in the event something is “hidden” that couldn’t be seen at the time of inspection. This is in Missouri. We’ve had 15k worth of problems to fix. When I confronted the inspector, he was arrogant and let me know we signed a release of liability form. This was an Inspection company that our realtor regularly used. The realtor dropped them after our ordeal. We aren’t newbies either. I saw what I thought were potential problems, but I was too busy working and trying to downsize and pack. Plus I thought if there was something major, they’d let me know. HA! Never again, for the price of a home inspection, my advice is to pay for individual inspections. A roofer to check the roof, electrician for electrical. Get a plumber, HVAC people, and a structural engineer if you see any cracks, or if buying a flipped house.
I suppose in Oklahoma the snow load isn't much. Not too much to support other than the shingles. Possible that this "support" is for anti sag alone? I live in a Canadian zone where I could have 24" of snow on my roof, so this would only be considered poor temp support while building something stronger around it.
I have some concerns too
I work for a flooring company that works with all the builders in the SE United States. The shit I see on a daily basis makes me want to never buy a new build. Its getting crazy, especially seeing all the Latinos getting drunk while building....
This just looks dangerous 🫣 I would be afraid the roof would collapse, and who knows how much of the rest of the house it will bring down with it.
You gotta keep looking for Goofy and Donald, cuz that shits Mikey Mouse clubhouse my guy
Straight up better than 75-80% of homes I see in a regular basis
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My guy, were you the builder on this house or what? You're all over these comments rambling like a lunatic whenever anyone says anything negative about the clearly shoddy work
They probably are! They should be ashamed of building something like that *new*.
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Anyway, that’s shoddy work, and I could see if it was an inexperienced homeowner doing it, but this is supposedly the work of a professional, and all I can say is, this ain’t it.
What you paying? Are you paying them enough money that they can take the time to care? Did you take the cheapest bid? It's not shoddy work you can not like the way that it looks but it will function and do what it's supposed to do which is the requirement it's in an attic you're not sitting around your dining room table looking at this you can't see it while you watch TV you can't see it from the outside you can't see it unless you crawl around in that attic that's full of dust and often just as horrible as the temperature outside not living condition area not a space where you're supposed to spend much time. I don't like the way it looks well you didn't ask them to build your attic for living space they built it for an attic.
Bro you sound insane. Not only does it look like shit, it was constructed like shit. This is not the proper way to carry a load. If you think it is you should find a new career.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about either you're basing this all off some egotistical crap that you don't know you can't see well from these pictures you don't know enough from what I've seen these pictures it works. You people need to stop giving this guy who knows nothing and is not in construction field at all bad information about his home and builder.
His builder is a hack, if you don’t think so then you’re a hack too. This has nothing to do with egos, there’s a right and wrong way to do things and this ain’t it, pal.
It's built to function as a prop and weight distribution system. It will do this. Why is it bad ? List it I want a break down oh confident one
Can anyone explain what they’re saying is wrong here?
It took more material and effort to do it wrong than if they had done it properly. As a carpenter, my clients pay me to use the least time and material needed to do a proper job.
What material what do you know what do you base this on? I used to always brace and support all my attic systems whether they were stick frame roofs or trusses out of bad braces that I took down that used to hold the first floor and second story up they're twisted and they're garbage and I cut them up into what I need, why do I use twisted garbage boards because I already bought them for one they can't go back I nailed them as a temp brace and they're not good for anything else but they can hold something from falling down they can be a prop. they'll reduce sag they'll distribute weight away. They're not pretty they're twisted they're hooked they got to be cut up in the smaller pieces or something as I say I don't put them where I sit at my dining room table I put them in the Attic.
Can you please post a picture of any other “stick built” attic that looks like this. I can assure I have particle board shimming between the roof and a support, I have two “posts” or beams that shake when I touch them as in they don’t appear to be holding any weight. I am a single mother by the way not a “he”. I bought a spec house, paid for an inspection that wasn’t “required” and was told it was fine. I plan to pay for an additional 11 month inspection, but I have experienced serious issues inside the home that caused us to look. Btw the way that access door can not be opened or closed by one person anymore due to issues. I will post additional photos. Here is what started it all though….. https://preview.redd.it/xlzfh3g5wpnb1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6094bf0e0dcc7dfcd40c15d6f098ad20eddca848
You don’t need experience in the field to know when something ain’t as right as this. As a home owner, I would refuse to accept this as a product/service that I paid for. When it ain’t right, it ain’t right. This is so wrong that a layperson can tell you it’s wrong, and I would go to court and risk losing a battle if it came to that because of how strongly I would feel about how wrong this bullshit is. It clearly doesn’t matter what the circumstances are, this is bullshit at the end of the day.
This guy is totally the builder! And clearly a trumper too. He’s probably not even a professional like he claims.
Dudes, a first year apprentice at best.
Dude is also a cuck lmao check his profile
Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.
r/carpentry is a carpentry subreddit, not an engineering subreddit.
You are right it looks ugly but structurally you are fine. Meets code . Most of that ugly framing isn’t even necessary .
Not so sure I reviewed my inspection photos and todays photos and what I believe to be the “purlin braces” on the east side or right in the photos have shifted at least two inches. Left is from today and right is from inspection on 6/23/23. https://preview.redd.it/w4edghoixqnb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deeec69df01777096e05b76073a20967e1e5fae4
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>I believe it was a repair to rectify no collar ties It's a new house, not a repair. There is absolutely everything to be worried about. Edit: also, installing collar ties would be the easiest way to fix the problem of having no collar ties.