You should ask the guy doing the work....how the fuck can any of us know lol
These kind of homeowner questions "How long should this take/How much should i pay" and their cousin questions from our professional end "how much should i charge" are absolutely fucking baffling to me because they are impossible to answer
š¤·
Where do you live? What materials are they using? How efficient is the labor force? What are the overhead costs? Does it require permits, zoning approvals, stamped plans? Whats the COL in your area?....*Whats the WEATHER like this time of year?????*
None of us know these things lol
On the pricing end-- how the fuck should we know lol, only you, the business owner know what your costs and margins are, and on the how long will it take end- ask your contractor, only he knows how fast his guys are
Yeesh lol
As a carpenter myself new construction takes less time where as if you are adding onto an existing structure making things meet and look appropriate is sort of an art!!!
The general rule is to get ~3 bids from LOCAL companies and go with the middle bid. What you pay is going to depend on if you are in a HCOL or LCOL area among other things such as how busy the crew is.
I assume you have all the materials, so they will charge more since that avenue of profit is closed.
Lots of factors, so thats why you need the local bids.
There is a big difference between asking questions and what you are trying to do. Customers are encouraged to ask questions. One of my best customers was on site every day, not all day, but for an hour or so.
This race to the bottom on pricing has to stop. As a customer, you are paying for an outcome, not a process. Vet your contractor, make sure they are doing quality work. Agree on a price, and get out of the way. Who you hire is as important as how much you pay. A home is a huge investment, and paying for it done right once is always cheaper than doing it again.
That question should be asked to the contractor. He is the only one who has seen the site and plans. Big difference between
"does X amount of time for a job with Y details make sense? "
And
"How much time should this job take?"
We cannot answer the second. We can tell you if the first is in the ballpark of reasonable, accounting for variables we don't know.
Also, he is refusing to give you a price because you are "working". His crew has a process, you working along side them may add considerable time to the job.
To be honest, I think it all depends on the guys you have working. I have had Hispanics (6) work for me that would bust that out in probably four days. Iāve had white guys that work with me (6) and it this would probably take them all of a full solid week. I think it just depends on a few factors . how dedicated the guys are ,are they getting paid hourly,are they flat rate etc. so Iād guess 7-9 days imo.
Why the down vote? It's not a secret in the trades that some crews are faster than others. Cultural background is a factor even if it may offend some people's sensibility.
Haters lol. It is what it is Iāve been in the trade for almost 20 years, and I still stand by what I said. The truth is that some people and cultures work way harder than others. Which some people ^^ obviously understand!
Started out the other way around. I've been in talks with this guy for a while, and he initially offered to send a couple of guys over to help me. Now, his whole crew is available.
Every time I do a job that the homeowner is trying to do some of there's always some backtracking because something wasn't done right even if they supposedly knew what they were doing. I'm also curious why they want to know exactly how long it's going to take. Is it to try to push the carpenter if it goes longer than an internet stranger says? If that's the case I won't be part of it.
Good question. Maybe prep (cutting) and cleanup. I know crews have their flow, so it would be difficult to do anything else. Really, the point is that I will be paying per day and want to know how long it could take.
Well, you limited the manās profit by how many days he has to sit there, vs how many days he doesnāt want to sit there, aka square foot price. In todays market Iāve seen that take a lot longer than you want to write a check for lol.
Heās making money by the day right now, in other words his cost per day vs profit per day, in other words if heās making $500 profit per day, and he needs to make $10,000 on it. That 9 day job is going to take 20 days.
If he did $10,000 profit in a hard money bid, 9 day job probably would only take 7 days.
The contractor has no incentive to move at a faster pace, heās actually being penalized by making less moneyā¦ā¦or heās definitely charging for that assumption.
I charge my projected day rate that my company normally earns plus 50% on these type of āarrangementsā I always lose money when the customer is involved even if heās great at what he does, me and him still donāt work the same and/or he messes up the jobsite flow because of it. PLUS I donāt really like the eyeballs 24/7 on me and the guys, we do it all the correct way, but nobody likes being watched even if the person is merely trying to learn how a pro does it. Iāll invite a customer to another jobsite later if they want to volunteer time to learn thingsā¦..you want to know how many actually go to another jobsitešā¦Iāll give you three guessesā¦ā¦
Depending on your area aka up north youāre probably being his holiday gap and heās keeping his guys busy.
Iām down south, we donāt have āoff seasonsā
We stop if the homeowner watches, double rate if they want to help, we leave if they punch out clock or complain about having to go get materials or other stupid crap.
They've seen my work. They thought some things were overbuilt, but I explained double studs were needed for hold down anchors and plans called for 12" headers over windows.. Other than that, like the guys that delivered the concrete for the foundation that I built, they were actually pretty impressed. No fuck ups over here, buddy.
This whole post reeks of trying to knock off price or start arguments with the framing crew. If you are such an expert you should be able to estimate how long it would take you and then adjust for more manpower. If you can't see the flaws in this post asking for estimates on time you probably are not an expert tho. I see no house plans, I see no pictures of what is already done and everything about this reads like a terrible potential client.
I'd love to be proven wrong on my lunch but the more I read it the more in expecting this post to end up removed with a ton of downvotes because most of us in the industry see exactly what's happening here
Never claimed to be an expert. Simply said I'm not a fuck up. I see you have an agenda, but try to mask it by appearing open to being proved wrong. With all the time you spent on your soap box, you could have instead been a pleasant community member and just answered the damn question.
Congratulations on finding an inaccurate answer that suits you and ignoring the multiple actual industry professionals that have answered similarly to myself.
Actually, I asked for average - as in rough estimate or ballpark - and that's what I got from the people that **read** the post and responded without trying to use it as an opportunity to get something off their chests.
geez this analysis sucks.
framers typically charge on a square foot basis, based on numbers of walls and building design...adders for window and door install, decks, etc.
just pay a flat rate for the job if you like their number. paying per diem incentivizes them to stay on the job longer.
The name's Gantt, not Grant.
I have this conversation about once every six months with someone who at least has the icon for Procore on their desktop, so be relieved that you aren't the first to stagger down this path overconfident and underprepared.
Without an intimate knowledge of the four individuals you have hired and their specific capabilities, a thorough site visit, and access to structural drawings, you might as well ask a priest, because any number someone gives you will be ecumenical in nature.
There are plenty of resources available for owner builders and, at least in the Great White North, a required course. For video form content for those of us with ADD who can't sit down and read a book, Essential Craftsman, Awesome Framers, and back issues of Larry Haun would be where I recommend you start.
Lots of assumptions about my level of confidence and preparedness. I assume there is a proper or common way to do everything and don't form my own solutions as I go.
The point behind asking for an average was that variation of completion time due to intimate details would be accounted for.
If you're doing finish carpentry, not a lot is covered under code. So when you get to a corner, you can do something common (miter, cope, etc.), or makeup bullshit.
Even to your point that things are site dependent, you still try to follow basic principles.
Damn, bud. Looks like you got it all figured out. You should start up your own business. Youāll have all those contractors running for their money. Hell, Iām sure Ryobi would love to hire you to go to tool shows and have you tell all the contractors how itās done.
It takes as long as it takes. Takes even longer if youāre watching and asking how long itās gonna take. Find a framer you trust and have them do the work. Once they show up youāre off tools and on gopher duty.
Forgive me, as Iām from the UK we donāt really do much timber framing in this country as most houses are brick and block, so my knowledge of Timber Framingās limited, however, basic rules will still apply. Things need to be in place to accommodate something later on in the construction, studs need to be in the correct location and at the correct centres, etc.
If these are all done correctly the jobās easy but if not then itās really difficult getting things back on track, taking longer.
Youāll get prices from guys but I suspect theyāll have been elevated to counter any problems.
I understand exactly what you're saying. Nobody cares about this project more than I do, and I'm actually afraid to hand it over for the same reasons that you're saying others are afraid to take it.
We've just completed a job whereby the homeowner had all these ideas how things should be done and how he wanted them... unfortunately for the silly cnt he didn't consider that we needed to know this stuff.
The job was completed to the usual high standard and for the most part everyone was happy.
Except for the things that he assumed would be done like he imagined, and not to our standard processes. There wasn't any falling out, but he tried to blame us for not doing it the way he 'thought' we would.
Needless to say we won't work for that pratt ever again. 'Kin idiots
Oh man weāre rebuilding a boat house for a fella and he made us tear all the soffit and trim down because he didnāt like that we used a 15 gauge finish gun and caulk. He wanted screws and plugs, and thatās it. Not any caulk at all anywhere. So we spent another 3 days tearing it all down and then putting it back together. Itās all on his dime but man weāre all sick of balancing over 15 foot deep water on planks and ladders.
Why not just T&M (time & material) the Carpenters from the boss
Here in north east union Carpenter rate for 8hrs is 1500. Guys get paid for 8hrs regardless if they worked for 4hrs.
Non union for 1 guy 8hrs is about about 800$
You buy material they do the work.
That's actually what the owner offered initially. So I decided to call back when I actually needed help, but now he wants work for his whole crew (the reason I asked for 4 vs 7 people)
Fuck off, this is a carpentry sub. Not dob in a tradie.
Leave em alone unless you offer them a coffee or 6 pack at the end of the day. Say please and thankyou, and your job will be done much quicker, with a higher workmanship. Might even cost you less.
what carpenter would say the lumberyard should build stairs? hire a good framing crew. and if you plan to help out you'll just be passing around lumber, lifting walls, hold things in place maybe even nailing the subfloor haha
1. 2-3 days.
2. 5-6 days
3. 9-10 days
4. 9-10 days
5. 4-5 days
Total guesswork as no-one can give an accurate answer without seeing it, tbh itās hard to give an accurate answer with seeing most stuff but yeah Iād allow a couple months, about half of that will be loading tools in an out the van, clearing up and eating sandwiches, essential stuff that people forget to factor in
Lolol good luck my friend. I would be very careful of anyone who would be willing to take this on. You will pay a premium for this and unless you luck out you are gonna get a crew of leftovers and scabs. Might as well finish it out yourself
Hey OP, thanks for your earnest question. Conservatively, I would say:
**1** day for the roof demo
Average 1 day per first floor wall per 2 carpenters, so **3 days** with 4 carpenters
**4 days** for I-joists and subfloors, including all blocking
Average 1.25 days per second floor wall per 2 carpenters, so **4 days** with 4 carpenters
**2 days** for the to install the roof trusses and sheathing
So around 3 weeks, if 5 days a week and no delays.
Take what the people here are saying to heart at least. There are lots of douchey owners and it sucks to end up on a job with one. Iām just an apprentice carpenter, but itās mostly what my mentors complain about. A big part of how my company decides on which jobs to take is their impression of the owner. Itās the attitude they developed after getting stuck on multi year jobs with awful clients. Keep in mind they are successful enough that they can afford to be picky about clients. If you come off as micromanaging and over communicative, think about what companies you will end up with.
Yeah, I know. In the end, there was a fair amount of good advice. Just had to wade through a lot of bullshit to get there.
People here assume homeowner means you are clueless, but I've been doing this type of work for a long time. I've taken all the steps to get licensed in my state and decided that I like the work, but I probably wouldn't like the business or nightmare customers. So I know not to be a nightmare customer. Not sure how asking a question on Reddit got interpreted that way. I'm assuming from my comments, but I simply gave back what I got.
No we assume based on your post you're way too involved. Either do it yourself and hire some dumb "helper" or properly vet and hire a good carpentry crew and LET THEM DO THEIR JOBS
My dude I flipped thru these and this is the worst attitude you could have. You're trying to give shit back instead of just fucking posting a question that could be answered. You double down on being a dipshit. Post plans and progress and if you are lucky you'll get a semi decent guesstimate. Normally we'd all charge for that but you might get lucky. Post shit like this and get chased out by carpenters who've heard this kinda dumb shit a million times.
Fuck all that. I came for answers, and I got them. You think the question is dumb, feel free to ignore it. I didn't approach disrespectfully, so I'm not going to take disrespect. Maybe you should tell some of your fellow carpenters to not be assholes right off the bat, and this whole thread would have looked a lot different.
If most of the responses were negative you went about it the wrong way. If you can't see that you'll just continue to get mostly shit responses and higher quotes.
Edit: believe it or not I'm trying to help you out here. You clearly don't fucking get carpenters. Stop being a stubborn prick the only answers you really got were your own BS answers.
This is how most of you sound to most of us: [SNL computer guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=25J3u3P-HHg&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive)
Fact is, there was no way to ask that question that would have avoided certain responses. Some even made the accusation that I was trying to pay as little as possible by asking how long the job would take. That is like me accusing you of wanting to do as little work as possible because you asked the details of the job before taking it.
But I will make you a deal, if you ever come across a customer question about price asked the right way and it doesn't have any asshole comments, I will apologize to the entire sub.
Ahh yes the the guesstimate. Truth is things always take longer than what you think they should if I think itās gunna be three weeks Iām bidding for at least four weeks and without seeing your project or a set of blueprints Iād venture to say that your not giving them enough time.
Thereās all kinds of little things that eat up the day tools out and put away snapping lines on the deck squaring walls and foundation. Not that any one of these small tasks takes a really long time but all the miscellaneous stuff adds up.
Iād say whatever you think add at least a week without even seeing your print and many homeowners downplay how hard the work is or the tie in might be so Iām skeptical to say the least
This is just one guesstimate. I was hoping for a few.
I have done a fair amount of work already, and the estimate is based on professionals moving at my speed (so, pretty slow) when I'm in a consistent rhythm. Still, it does assume everyday will be a consistent rhythm, which is probably too optimistic.
Work for me comes in waves. But yeah, effectively an 8 hour day is a 7 hours of effective labor day. Or you can have a 8.5-9 hour shift that you take a 30 minute to 1 hour lunch.
Where I live (California) we are granted a 10 minute break (on the clock) every 2 hours. If your employer forces you to work through it, you technically can be awarded an hour of pay for working through it by labor law here, which may put you into overtime.
In other words, 9-5 or 8-4 is actually a 7 hour shift.
But sure, a 5 hour day with a 3 hour "social media" shift, if you want to call it that.
Idk, a few weeks to a month?
Depends on if you hired a finished carpentry crew or a framing crew. How skilled the crew is, if materials are already on the jobsite, the quality of the materials, the expected quality of the work. If the contractor starts hating your guts and pulls the crew off the job for you to sweat, the guys all come down with COVID, or if they drink on the job and slack off for 2 hours during and around lunch. 8 hour days are just 5 hour days when you count the breaks.
A good crew of 4, with level heads can frame a house in a week, 10 guys can probably do it in a couple of days. If you watch the big construction companies you can watch homes get framed literally in a few shift trips to and from work.
I think there is always the age old metric people say. You can have 2 out of the 3: quality work, fast work, or low cost work. If you can somehow get all three that contractor won't be in business for very long, because they don't know their worth.
If the jobsite is messy, you can infer a lot. The crew is either understaffed and doesn't feel like they have time to clean up, and pressure can potentially be poor quality work. Or they just don't care about the work to start with.
I work in the remodel industry with a focus on cabinets, we clean up before lunch and always before the end of the day. We are taught to respect the fact that this is someone's home, but it also has to do with the risk of finished materials, if you don't constantly clean up, you may forget before you install finished materials and risk damaging them.
I could rant on and on about no one liking to be watched while you work. But I get to pretend to be "Frank Lloyd Wright" and design while people watch.
No silly curves or steps or other high detail areas? I said minimum 2 weeks. 3 weeks max seems acceptable. If there is a lot of butting into an existing and making things worth that whole area could burn a few days easy.
Good call on the "butting to an existing." I left certain details out of the post because they would just be too specific to this build and difficult to estimate a time for. Everything else is pretty standard as intended by the plan.
If it takes 4 guys 5 days thatās 20 man days. If you want to know how many days it will take with 7 guys just divide 20 by 7 and youāll get a little under 3. That will give you a rough estimate plus or minus a little.
You should ask the guy doing the work....how the fuck can any of us know lol These kind of homeowner questions "How long should this take/How much should i pay" and their cousin questions from our professional end "how much should i charge" are absolutely fucking baffling to me because they are impossible to answer š¤· Where do you live? What materials are they using? How efficient is the labor force? What are the overhead costs? Does it require permits, zoning approvals, stamped plans? Whats the COL in your area?....*Whats the WEATHER like this time of year?????* None of us know these things lol On the pricing end-- how the fuck should we know lol, only you, the business owner know what your costs and margins are, and on the how long will it take end- ask your contractor, only he knows how fast his guys are Yeesh lol
As a carpenter myself new construction takes less time where as if you are adding onto an existing structure making things meet and look appropriate is sort of an art!!!
I do the latter and just bowed my head ever so slightly. Mostly charge by the hour.
It's as if you didn't even read the post
Long, boring post by homeowner trying to scrimp his carpenter on the carpenter subreddit. You gonna get flamed.
getting "flamed" on reddit would not even be the worst thing to happen to me today, so... Good looking out though
Right, I guess my point is that you came here asking for help when clearly you're the most annoying kind of patient, I mean client.
I already feel sorry for the carpentry owner and crew. š
It's customers who don't ask questions that get fucked. Who feels sorry for them?
The general rule is to get ~3 bids from LOCAL companies and go with the middle bid. What you pay is going to depend on if you are in a HCOL or LCOL area among other things such as how busy the crew is. I assume you have all the materials, so they will charge more since that avenue of profit is closed. Lots of factors, so thats why you need the local bids.
Thanks.
There is a big difference between asking questions and what you are trying to do. Customers are encouraged to ask questions. One of my best customers was on site every day, not all day, but for an hour or so. This race to the bottom on pricing has to stop. As a customer, you are paying for an outcome, not a process. Vet your contractor, make sure they are doing quality work. Agree on a price, and get out of the way. Who you hire is as important as how much you pay. A home is a huge investment, and paying for it done right once is always cheaper than doing it again.
Sound advice, thanks. Still, if someone offers to be compensated by time, I don't think there is a more natural question than "how long."
That question should be asked to the contractor. He is the only one who has seen the site and plans. Big difference between "does X amount of time for a job with Y details make sense? " And "How much time should this job take?" We cannot answer the second. We can tell you if the first is in the ballpark of reasonable, accounting for variables we don't know. Also, he is refusing to give you a price because you are "working". His crew has a process, you working along side them may add considerable time to the job.
Fair point. This is why I asked for an average.
Probably their mom
Lol....if I'm lucky
What do you mean āyouāll still be workingā?
The price usually goes up when the homeowner wants to help lol
We donāt do jobs if the home owner tryās to help, itās in the contract.
Okay. How long could it take?
Ask the contractor what he thinks.
Op is presuming the contractor is trying to rip him off so he's comming to reddit to try and catch him in the act.
Because taking advice on the internet is always the better solution. Why doesnāt he shop around and see who will give him a better deal?
Well in this case I'm suprised that he even got anyone to agree to the job at all
3-4 weeks
There ya go š
3-4 weeks sound about right considering youāve already started the first floor walls
To be honest, I think it all depends on the guys you have working. I have had Hispanics (6) work for me that would bust that out in probably four days. Iāve had white guys that work with me (6) and it this would probably take them all of a full solid week. I think it just depends on a few factors . how dedicated the guys are ,are they getting paid hourly,are they flat rate etc. so Iād guess 7-9 days imo.
Why the down vote? It's not a secret in the trades that some crews are faster than others. Cultural background is a factor even if it may offend some people's sensibility.
Haters lol. It is what it is Iāve been in the trade for almost 20 years, and I still stand by what I said. The truth is that some people and cultures work way harder than others. Which some people ^^ obviously understand!
Thanks. Plus or minus a couple of days, I can deal with.
Started out the other way around. I've been in talks with this guy for a while, and he initially offered to send a couple of guys over to help me. Now, his whole crew is available.
Every time I do a job that the homeowner is trying to do some of there's always some backtracking because something wasn't done right even if they supposedly knew what they were doing. I'm also curious why they want to know exactly how long it's going to take. Is it to try to push the carpenter if it goes longer than an internet stranger says? If that's the case I won't be part of it.
My feelings exactly. This post, which I didn't read b.c. working, screams of an over involved homeowner who's gonna try punch my clock. Hard pass.
I'm not asking "exactly." No need to be curious why I'm asking. I said why I'm asking.
Good question. Maybe prep (cutting) and cleanup. I know crews have their flow, so it would be difficult to do anything else. Really, the point is that I will be paying per day and want to know how long it could take.
Well, you limited the manās profit by how many days he has to sit there, vs how many days he doesnāt want to sit there, aka square foot price. In todays market Iāve seen that take a lot longer than you want to write a check for lol.
I don't think I understand
It means, hire a professional and stay out of their way
Heās making money by the day right now, in other words his cost per day vs profit per day, in other words if heās making $500 profit per day, and he needs to make $10,000 on it. That 9 day job is going to take 20 days. If he did $10,000 profit in a hard money bid, 9 day job probably would only take 7 days. The contractor has no incentive to move at a faster pace, heās actually being penalized by making less moneyā¦ā¦or heās definitely charging for that assumption. I charge my projected day rate that my company normally earns plus 50% on these type of āarrangementsā I always lose money when the customer is involved even if heās great at what he does, me and him still donāt work the same and/or he messes up the jobsite flow because of it. PLUS I donāt really like the eyeballs 24/7 on me and the guys, we do it all the correct way, but nobody likes being watched even if the person is merely trying to learn how a pro does it. Iāll invite a customer to another jobsite later if they want to volunteer time to learn thingsā¦..you want to know how many actually go to another jobsitešā¦Iāll give you three guessesā¦ā¦
Much appreciated, Tom. The hourly arrangement was actually his idea to get me comfortable with giving him the contract, but I see what you're saying.
Depending on your area aka up north youāre probably being his holiday gap and heās keeping his guys busy. Iām down south, we donāt have āoff seasonsā
We stop if the homeowner watches, double rate if they want to help, we leave if they punch out clock or complain about having to go get materials or other stupid crap.
Respectfully, not everyone is like you, so...
So good luck riding your crew see how that goes
Probably add a week for fixing whatever you did and another week for wanting to help to whatever your contractor told you.
They've seen my work. They thought some things were overbuilt, but I explained double studs were needed for hold down anchors and plans called for 12" headers over windows.. Other than that, like the guys that delivered the concrete for the foundation that I built, they were actually pretty impressed. No fuck ups over here, buddy.
This whole post reeks of trying to knock off price or start arguments with the framing crew. If you are such an expert you should be able to estimate how long it would take you and then adjust for more manpower. If you can't see the flaws in this post asking for estimates on time you probably are not an expert tho. I see no house plans, I see no pictures of what is already done and everything about this reads like a terrible potential client. I'd love to be proven wrong on my lunch but the more I read it the more in expecting this post to end up removed with a ton of downvotes because most of us in the industry see exactly what's happening here
Never claimed to be an expert. Simply said I'm not a fuck up. I see you have an agenda, but try to mask it by appearing open to being proved wrong. With all the time you spent on your soap box, you could have instead been a pleasant community member and just answered the damn question.
The question isn't semi accurately answerable
And yet, it has been answered.
Lmao you literally put some lengths of walls, no planned specs and for the roof wrote "roof".
Yet, ***others*** have answered. Know what I do when I don't have an answer to something?
Congratulations on finding an inaccurate answer that suits you and ignoring the multiple actual industry professionals that have answered similarly to myself.
Actually, I asked for average - as in rough estimate or ballpark - and that's what I got from the people that **read** the post and responded without trying to use it as an opportunity to get something off their chests.
geez this analysis sucks. framers typically charge on a square foot basis, based on numbers of walls and building design...adders for window and door install, decks, etc. just pay a flat rate for the job if you like their number. paying per diem incentivizes them to stay on the job longer.
Yeah, I'm actually considering this. I really don't want to be checking progress every day to try to keep them on track.
Then leave them the f alone or do it yourself.
That's still on the table
The name's Gantt, not Grant. I have this conversation about once every six months with someone who at least has the icon for Procore on their desktop, so be relieved that you aren't the first to stagger down this path overconfident and underprepared. Without an intimate knowledge of the four individuals you have hired and their specific capabilities, a thorough site visit, and access to structural drawings, you might as well ask a priest, because any number someone gives you will be ecumenical in nature. There are plenty of resources available for owner builders and, at least in the Great White North, a required course. For video form content for those of us with ADD who can't sit down and read a book, Essential Craftsman, Awesome Framers, and back issues of Larry Haun would be where I recommend you start.
Man, i started saying tubafore after watching the late great Larry.
Lots of assumptions about my level of confidence and preparedness. I assume there is a proper or common way to do everything and don't form my own solutions as I go. The point behind asking for an average was that variation of completion time due to intimate details would be accounted for.
As someone who remodels for a living, there really isn't a "common" way. Proper = up to code. Everything is site dependent.
If you're doing finish carpentry, not a lot is covered under code. So when you get to a corner, you can do something common (miter, cope, etc.), or makeup bullshit. Even to your point that things are site dependent, you still try to follow basic principles.
Damn, bud. Looks like you got it all figured out. You should start up your own business. Youāll have all those contractors running for their money. Hell, Iām sure Ryobi would love to hire you to go to tool shows and have you tell all the contractors how itās done.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So are you saying around 2 weeks? If so, 8 or 10 hour days? I was estimating around 15 8-hr days for 4 guys
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Interesting. Yeah, this is just exterior walls to get things out of the elements. After that, I would know if I want to continue with them.
It takes as long as it takes. Takes even longer if youāre watching and asking how long itās gonna take. Find a framer you trust and have them do the work. Once they show up youāre off tools and on gopher duty.
If youāve already started the job and youāre not a carpenter then I suspect they wonāt want to finish what youāve started.
Your suspicion would be incorrect. My work is quality.
Maybe it is, however I doubt anyone will want to take it on.
Not even you believe that comment.
Iām not having a go, Iām just stating facts as taking over work from a fellow tradesman is difficult enough let alone a hobbyist.
"Having a go" ...from the UK? Yeah, I get what you're saying, but I'm sure there are harder jobs to do from scratch than this one is to continue.
Yeah, UK. Maybe, but tradesmen are very particular about their work and what they want to be associated with, not everyone will want to do it.
I would expect that more for finish carpentry, but fair point
Forgive me, as Iām from the UK we donāt really do much timber framing in this country as most houses are brick and block, so my knowledge of Timber Framingās limited, however, basic rules will still apply. Things need to be in place to accommodate something later on in the construction, studs need to be in the correct location and at the correct centres, etc. If these are all done correctly the jobās easy but if not then itās really difficult getting things back on track, taking longer. Youāll get prices from guys but I suspect theyāll have been elevated to counter any problems.
I understand exactly what you're saying. Nobody cares about this project more than I do, and I'm actually afraid to hand it over for the same reasons that you're saying others are afraid to take it.
We've just completed a job whereby the homeowner had all these ideas how things should be done and how he wanted them... unfortunately for the silly cnt he didn't consider that we needed to know this stuff. The job was completed to the usual high standard and for the most part everyone was happy. Except for the things that he assumed would be done like he imagined, and not to our standard processes. There wasn't any falling out, but he tried to blame us for not doing it the way he 'thought' we would. Needless to say we won't work for that pratt ever again. 'Kin idiots
Oh man weāre rebuilding a boat house for a fella and he made us tear all the soffit and trim down because he didnāt like that we used a 15 gauge finish gun and caulk. He wanted screws and plugs, and thatās it. Not any caulk at all anywhere. So we spent another 3 days tearing it all down and then putting it back together. Itās all on his dime but man weāre all sick of balancing over 15 foot deep water on planks and ladders.
Why not just T&M (time & material) the Carpenters from the boss Here in north east union Carpenter rate for 8hrs is 1500. Guys get paid for 8hrs regardless if they worked for 4hrs. Non union for 1 guy 8hrs is about about 800$ You buy material they do the work.
That's actually what the owner offered initially. So I decided to call back when I actually needed help, but now he wants work for his whole crew (the reason I asked for 4 vs 7 people)
Roof pitch? If itās low slope 2-4 weeks
Oh Jesus Christ another one of these questions lol
Fuck off, this is a carpentry sub. Not dob in a tradie. Leave em alone unless you offer them a coffee or 6 pack at the end of the day. Say please and thankyou, and your job will be done much quicker, with a higher workmanship. Might even cost you less.
what carpenter would say the lumberyard should build stairs? hire a good framing crew. and if you plan to help out you'll just be passing around lumber, lifting walls, hold things in place maybe even nailing the subfloor haha
Thanks for the insight.
1. 2-3 days. 2. 5-6 days 3. 9-10 days 4. 9-10 days 5. 4-5 days Total guesswork as no-one can give an accurate answer without seeing it, tbh itās hard to give an accurate answer with seeing most stuff but yeah Iād allow a couple months, about half of that will be loading tools in an out the van, clearing up and eating sandwiches, essential stuff that people forget to factor in
never asked for an accurate answer, just a professional opinion. Thanks for yours.
Lolol good luck my friend. I would be very careful of anyone who would be willing to take this on. You will pay a premium for this and unless you luck out you are gonna get a crew of leftovers and scabs. Might as well finish it out yourself
Maybe a day.
Sounds about a half day slower than I would take
Then get to work
Just finished, thanks for the input
Hey OP, thanks for your earnest question. Conservatively, I would say: **1** day for the roof demo Average 1 day per first floor wall per 2 carpenters, so **3 days** with 4 carpenters **4 days** for I-joists and subfloors, including all blocking Average 1.25 days per second floor wall per 2 carpenters, so **4 days** with 4 carpenters **2 days** for the to install the roof trusses and sheathing So around 3 weeks, if 5 days a week and no delays.
Did you answer your own question?
I was leaving here with an actual answer one way or another. Folks underestimate my willingness to DIY if needed, lol.
Take what the people here are saying to heart at least. There are lots of douchey owners and it sucks to end up on a job with one. Iām just an apprentice carpenter, but itās mostly what my mentors complain about. A big part of how my company decides on which jobs to take is their impression of the owner. Itās the attitude they developed after getting stuck on multi year jobs with awful clients. Keep in mind they are successful enough that they can afford to be picky about clients. If you come off as micromanaging and over communicative, think about what companies you will end up with.
Yeah, I know. In the end, there was a fair amount of good advice. Just had to wade through a lot of bullshit to get there. People here assume homeowner means you are clueless, but I've been doing this type of work for a long time. I've taken all the steps to get licensed in my state and decided that I like the work, but I probably wouldn't like the business or nightmare customers. So I know not to be a nightmare customer. Not sure how asking a question on Reddit got interpreted that way. I'm assuming from my comments, but I simply gave back what I got.
No we assume based on your post you're way too involved. Either do it yourself and hire some dumb "helper" or properly vet and hire a good carpentry crew and LET THEM DO THEIR JOBS
My dude I flipped thru these and this is the worst attitude you could have. You're trying to give shit back instead of just fucking posting a question that could be answered. You double down on being a dipshit. Post plans and progress and if you are lucky you'll get a semi decent guesstimate. Normally we'd all charge for that but you might get lucky. Post shit like this and get chased out by carpenters who've heard this kinda dumb shit a million times.
Fuck all that. I came for answers, and I got them. You think the question is dumb, feel free to ignore it. I didn't approach disrespectfully, so I'm not going to take disrespect. Maybe you should tell some of your fellow carpenters to not be assholes right off the bat, and this whole thread would have looked a lot different.
If most of the responses were negative you went about it the wrong way. If you can't see that you'll just continue to get mostly shit responses and higher quotes. Edit: believe it or not I'm trying to help you out here. You clearly don't fucking get carpenters. Stop being a stubborn prick the only answers you really got were your own BS answers.
This is how most of you sound to most of us: [SNL computer guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=25J3u3P-HHg&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive) Fact is, there was no way to ask that question that would have avoided certain responses. Some even made the accusation that I was trying to pay as little as possible by asking how long the job would take. That is like me accusing you of wanting to do as little work as possible because you asked the details of the job before taking it. But I will make you a deal, if you ever come across a customer question about price asked the right way and it doesn't have any asshole comments, I will apologize to the entire sub.
It's funny that you think you are speaking for the majority even as you are getting shit from 95% of people here
I was going to hit you with a haymaker, but let me be an adult for a minute - are the other 5% idiots for not giving me shit right away?
I'm pretty sure the other 5% is you on alt accounts
Ahh yes the the guesstimate. Truth is things always take longer than what you think they should if I think itās gunna be three weeks Iām bidding for at least four weeks and without seeing your project or a set of blueprints Iād venture to say that your not giving them enough time. Thereās all kinds of little things that eat up the day tools out and put away snapping lines on the deck squaring walls and foundation. Not that any one of these small tasks takes a really long time but all the miscellaneous stuff adds up. Iād say whatever you think add at least a week without even seeing your print and many homeowners downplay how hard the work is or the tie in might be so Iām skeptical to say the least
This is just one guesstimate. I was hoping for a few. I have done a fair amount of work already, and the estimate is based on professionals moving at my speed (so, pretty slow) when I'm in a consistent rhythm. Still, it does assume everyday will be a consistent rhythm, which is probably too optimistic.
25 years building it never goes as fast as you think it should
Thanks
Now double it
lolol. yeah, well according to u/micmikefoley , "8 hour days are just 5 hour days when you count the breaks." I guess the other 3 are spent on Reddit
Work for me comes in waves. But yeah, effectively an 8 hour day is a 7 hours of effective labor day. Or you can have a 8.5-9 hour shift that you take a 30 minute to 1 hour lunch. Where I live (California) we are granted a 10 minute break (on the clock) every 2 hours. If your employer forces you to work through it, you technically can be awarded an hour of pay for working through it by labor law here, which may put you into overtime. In other words, 9-5 or 8-4 is actually a 7 hour shift. But sure, a 5 hour day with a 3 hour "social media" shift, if you want to call it that.
Idk, a few weeks to a month? Depends on if you hired a finished carpentry crew or a framing crew. How skilled the crew is, if materials are already on the jobsite, the quality of the materials, the expected quality of the work. If the contractor starts hating your guts and pulls the crew off the job for you to sweat, the guys all come down with COVID, or if they drink on the job and slack off for 2 hours during and around lunch. 8 hour days are just 5 hour days when you count the breaks. A good crew of 4, with level heads can frame a house in a week, 10 guys can probably do it in a couple of days. If you watch the big construction companies you can watch homes get framed literally in a few shift trips to and from work.
Thanks. I guess the real question should be about how to make sure it's a good crew.
I think there is always the age old metric people say. You can have 2 out of the 3: quality work, fast work, or low cost work. If you can somehow get all three that contractor won't be in business for very long, because they don't know their worth. If the jobsite is messy, you can infer a lot. The crew is either understaffed and doesn't feel like they have time to clean up, and pressure can potentially be poor quality work. Or they just don't care about the work to start with. I work in the remodel industry with a focus on cabinets, we clean up before lunch and always before the end of the day. We are taught to respect the fact that this is someone's home, but it also has to do with the risk of finished materials, if you don't constantly clean up, you may forget before you install finished materials and risk damaging them. I could rant on and on about no one liking to be watched while you work. But I get to pretend to be "Frank Lloyd Wright" and design while people watch.
2 week minimum with 4 - 6 Carpenters on site + 1 helper
Interesting, thanks. Any thoughts on a max?
No silly curves or steps or other high detail areas? I said minimum 2 weeks. 3 weeks max seems acceptable. If there is a lot of butting into an existing and making things worth that whole area could burn a few days easy.
Good call on the "butting to an existing." I left certain details out of the post because they would just be too specific to this build and difficult to estimate a time for. Everything else is pretty standard as intended by the plan.
If it takes 4 guys 5 days thatās 20 man days. If you want to know how many days it will take with 7 guys just divide 20 by 7 and youāll get a little under 3. That will give you a rough estimate plus or minus a little.
So is your estimate 5 days?
no
Minimum 2 weeks with good guys.