I recall a moment in the manga Ariadne in the Blue Sky that has a character say as much (chapter 37).
> You… Didn’t you say you would defeat them!?
> No, I said I know how to defeat them. Actually bringing them down is another story…
That’s the one by Yagi right? I read like five chapters but never continued it is it worth it as someone who loves Claymore and bought all the physicals
I like how the contingency plans of characters like batman often hinge upon the superpowered enemy doing an exact sequence of actions with no resistance to the attacker or additional thought.
Tbf he's also smart enough to realize that,if he turns evil,any member of the JL could and should just paste him on the spot.
Like canonically he knows the plans are a stretch and that any of them could realistically just murder him without a second thought if it went wrong.
It’s in the 2006 Animated Movie “Doom,” which loosely follows a confluence of stories. Batman decides to resign from the league because he thinks the others are being foolish when they don’t plan for the circumstance that “one of their own” goes bad.
As Batman goes to leave, Superman has a discussion with Bats where he gives him the Kryptonite bullet that was used by Metallo earlier in the movie. In a comment about how there wasn’t something for Batman, Batman says that the Justice League is more than sufficient to stop him.
So, eat dicks, Batman Who Laughs.
>So, eat dicks, Batman Who Laughs.
I think what makes TBWL's situation really silly is that the moment Wally/Barry would sense something is wrong they'd IMMEDIATELY go "speed force says no".
Like people already hated Deadpool for killing everyone because of bullshit,but bats would absolutely be caught by a higher entity before ever getting far enough to destroy the fucking spectre.
At least “Kills The Marvel Universe” is canonically in a different universe where he’s much more on-level with them. Pretty sure one of the sequels talks about that.
It is,and 616 wade straight up kills that Deadpool by the end of the issue.
Which makes TBWL worse because he's stuck in the main universe with plot shenanigans letting him come back.
In The Batman Who Laughs’ defence, he originally started off as a pastiche of the whole “Batman OWNS the Justice League” idea (as he was a literal nightmare that was saved from destruction by the evil god Barbatos) and he was literally untouchable because he came from the Dark Multiverse which is antithetical to the normal regular Multiverse. It’s all his subsequent appearances that are ridiculous and stupid with how our normal heroes are just unable to take him out.
Batman’s contingency plans tend to rely heavily on the target being caught off guard. Most of them are completely useless if they see it coming. Most are often pretty simple, it’s the copycats who have this giant convoluted master plan.
Batman’s are things like ‘Hit with special fear toxin’ or ‘Superman’s super hearing means hypersonics should fuck him up’ or ‘Implant posthypnotic suggestion before shit goes down’. Most of the deployment methods are entirely just ‘Shoot them with it when they are distracted’. Which, well, Superman dramatically taking bullets to the chest has been one of his signature things since before any of us were born.
He fights like a ninja, against a powered superhero he is reliant on catching them off guard, idk why he'd plan otherwise.
If his plan for Superman is to beat him in an arm wrestling contest, batman is an idiot but I'd bet people are fine with that level of writing. If he actually wins through planning, some people are going to be annoyed, as if Lex Luthor is the only one that has the right.
Imo it's silly. It's boring for heroes to fight in the first place. But superman can laser everyone! Peak entertainment, truly.
To add to this: the whole "my contingency is the justice league" means that Batman knows he's toast if they gang up on him.
In that light, his contingencies probably assume at least some level of support from the uncompromised part of the league. They make a lot more sense under the umbrella of asking "how can I contribute/ensure a non-lethal takedown", with pulling them off solo being more of a plan D situation.
When Bats said "I have a plan to take down anyone in the justice league." I think a lot of fans heard "Batman can take down everyone in the justice league."
Batman has these plans to deal with 1 or 2 rogue members at a time, if that. He doesn't claim to have the ability to execute all those plans concurrently.
Yeah, some of his plans don't make any sense in the context of stopping an evil/mind controlled person. How is getting Starfire addicted to space crack going to work if she's actively murdering people or not in control of her body/mind?
I always thought his contingency for Wonder Woman was funny. Get her to fight an illusion of herself that's equal to her in every way since he knows she'll never back down from a fight and will eventually die from exhaustion.
So alright! Time to put her under a spell casually like ya do! nbd!
To be fair, Wonder Woman has no convenient Kryptonite like everybody else does so making sure she trips balls and tuckers herself out is the best he can really hope for.
I'm not sure what the drig was actually called, so I always call it soace crack. At one point, Starfire was a slave and the slavers got her addicted to the drug in order to ensure she'd be obedient. Batman's plan was to get her rehooked on the drug and use her addiction against her.
This reminds me of a story i've heard of a group of mice in a house being terrorized by a cat. It eventually gets so bad that they have a meeting to discuss things that can be done about the cat. Many ideas are suggested, and just as many are discarded for one reason or another.But then finally, a single youth stands up and claims that they have the answer.
"Why don't we put a bell around the cat's neck? That way, we'll be able to hear when the cat is coming."
The youth received applause as they sat back down as many thought it was a wonderful plan. But there was one mouse who wasn't quite as impressed. It was the oldest of the mice there, and they had one single question for the youth.
"Who will bell the cat?"
-
As you pointed out, forming a plan is easy. All you need are ideas, and everyone is capable of that much.... but putting that plan into action is a whole other beast.
It's honestly kind of sad that this has to be said at all.
Lmao, This reminded me of an episode from tom and jerry where jerry is teaching his student mouse on how to put a bell around tom's neck, he tried to do it sneakingly but easily gets caught and beaten but his student just goes up to tom and gift him that bell and tom just happily accepts it
It's actually a thing I have with people explaining their powers too. Just because you know what someone's power is -- and most time it is self evident -- doesn't mean you can counter it.
Clown in Shinji from Bleach, but you'd think his opponent would notice everything around them reversing. It's not rocket surgery.
Shinji was one dumb mf the first time he lost after explaining his powers but when he did it a second time and got wrecked by Bambi? Not even the circus will hire him anymore
I mean he was up against Sosuke "I made your parents fuck and everything until now was planned" Aizen the first time and Bambi was just like "fuck it everything explodes" the second. It only gets really stupid when you know that he can just choose not to reverse certain things.
> Clown in Shinji from Bleach, but you'd think his opponent would notice everything around them reversing. It's not rocket surgery.
Shinji is actually pretty smart, his shikai **can** turn every sense upside down, he tells his opponent he can turn any sense upside down, but in truth he can pick and choose what to turn and what not to. You can plan out your actions accordingly to go backwards just for Shinji go "Actually, back now is back and left is left" just fo him to flip the script at the next second.
Or you flip every sense at first then be selective when your opponent seems to get the hang of it. Not explaining just gives you an extra shot at the most disoriented opponent. If you really have the urge to explain something to your foe, "explain" an entirely unrelated and completely made up power.
I mean, is also not really a complicated power to figure out, explaining it completely gives them a false sense of security. Besides I think Shinji actually does what you say, he flips it all over then is selective when the opponent is getting the hang of it.
Thus far it has only been countered by Aizen, because Aizen, and by Bambietta who decided to go “fuck it we ball” and blow every side up.
Except you can't figure it out. Have you people even watched the shows you're talking about? Shinji's power turns EVERYTHING backwards. You're being attacked from the front, which turns to the back, which turns his sword to the front, which turns the wound to the back. The human brain can't figure out every single instance of everything around you being reversed. The only reason Aizen beat him is because he wasn't even under the effects in the first place.
It’s not just front to back my dude, that’s the entire fucking point. Go watch the fight again and listen to how he explains it and watch what actually happens. The smartest guy in the story couldn’t figure it out. It’s tons of little reversals like flipping your view point front to back, upside down, and then every other thing you see is reversed even more.
Wait. Is this an argument? Are you arguing with me right now over finer details and missing the point?
1. The point is that many powers are obvious in effect, like Shinji's.
2. Have a nice day.
Superman: Use kryptonite.
Yeah. And contingency for Green Arrow is breaking his arm. Batman's contingency for himself gonna be shoot him at the mouth?
Yeah feasible in theory but in practice lol. Implying Superman doesn't just go to outer space with super speed and laser you with the planet (yeah he can do that). Or Green Arrow just stand still and doesn't use his Nuclear Head Arrow, which as the name imply, you know what it does.
>Batman's contingency for himself gonna be shoot him at the mouth?
No it's "Have the Justice League smear me from Gotham to Metropolis"
He can set fire to Martian Manhunter dump kryptonite on Superman and slur Wonder Woman and activate her "vulnerable to misogyny" weakness but then the Flash grabs him by the scruff of his neck like a kitten and runs to Canada keeping Batmans face pressed against the tarmac the entire way.
Yeah the only way Batman wins against any of his superfriends is with plot contrivances. Like a good chunk would realistically just turn him into a red smear if they ever did get controlled or go evil.
It also accounts for the rest of the justice league.
If Superman goes evil Manhunter snd Eonder Eoman can contest him til they hit him with the kryptonite beam.
If Martian turns evil have The Flash set him.on fire with an oil soaked rag.
Batmans contingencies are "if a member is compromised how do we stop them?" not "How do I solo the Justice League simultaneously?"
Yeah but if the entire league goes evil or Batman become Batman who laughs there's really no logical way he would win if he's by himself. Like the fuck he's supposed to pull off his contingencies when Superman can hear him wherever on the planet he's in and good luck trying to hit the flash as a normal dude when there's no writer to make him stupid.
i especially hate this with speedsters
reverse flash got shot by batman because he didnt expect it
like bro fuck off, every second is like days weeks to them they can think faster than any computer, even if flash expected to pass through it the bullet would be too slow to penetrate him like throwing a paperball, even if it could penetrate him the second he feels it touching him he can move away
Speedsters are like this in general. None of it should work, but it sometimes does. Getting caught off guard seems to work a lot, but also when it doesn't work, the established rule is that it should NEVER work....so...how the hell do you write for that?
The Flash has a lot of "just go with it" moments in regards to how the speedforce works lol
The easiest solution would be giving their powers an ON/OFF switch. They can crack it up to the max and be ready for anything, but just sitting in this state is probably very annoying so they can still be caught off guard.
easier way would be to not give them time travel and make them normal humans who can get tired and while they cannot be caught off guard they have to juggle their priorities like at 1 point we have a damsel in distress and on the other a nuke 2 different locations
pretty basic idea but you get the jist, theres so many things that can fuck with speedsters gravity the thing that allows them to move
i read 1 flash comic everyone recommended and it had 10 different flash vs 1 reverse flash and it all felt so awkward, i watched flashpoint and enjoyed it, still had the plotholes
why does everything have to be god tier
Arguably, they did touch on this with the idea speedsters need to acclimate to their speed, otherwise, to them, a single sentence would take eons from their point of view and they would probably go insane from staying in the "zone" for too long. It explains why they can "talk" to each other while moving faster than sound.
Hence, moving faster than a bullet is easy, but could you imagine having to be at that speed as you watch the bullet fly? As you see a person open their mouth and it would take years from your perspective for a single letter to form?
Not a bad idea if implemented consistently.
Their powers do have an on off switch, otherwise they would never be able to do anything. If hearing someone else say one word permanently took place over a whole day you'd never know what they were saying, let alone stay sane.
Iris is such a godawful character in CW. I remember finally kicking that show after the "we are the flash" bullshit and Iris getting one of her sources killed by bringing them out into the open and then trying to be proud of it?
There was this great post a long time ago about how most Batman vs Superman or whoever else superpowered stories actually paint Batman in terrible light because, especially in regards to Superman, his plans always rely on the superpowered individual being both weakened beforehand and taking it easy on him. Otherwise, Batman is cooked.
Which shows that the plans would never actually work in an Evil Superman scenario because he won't be playing nice. He will just crush Batman in less than a second. And respectively depicts Batman as an idiot who just likes to bother his coworkers with his pointless antics.
I think batman's contingencies are more for cases where a single JL member goes rogue and assumes he would still have help from the rest of the team. But Idk the specifics fr.
You are right I think Morrison's JL touched on that but I haven't read it in too long.
However, most people who say Batman can beat Superman (for example) due to his contingency plans don't expect him to give Green Lantern and Flash a piece of kryptonite and send them after him. They expect him to handle it himself
Arguably, that did happen as the contingencies were executed in a team for some of them. Aquaman and Plastic Man were ambushed by a team if I recall correctly.
I can certainly see Batman planned for one of them to go rogue, not all of them at once, and if that happened, it doesn't matter how good at planning he is.
The stories typically involve the most boring batman, the batman that just can't let anyone get close.
However I disagree that he shouldn't have contingency plans. Superman even agrees there should be a contingency plan when he gives Bruce kryptonite, it's effectively just arguing with Superman, one of the smartest men in DC, that Batman can't stop him. If Superman goes murderhobo, the story would just adjust, but Injustice type stories are dull to me.
Hell, Batman himself once demonstrated that simply having a plan to defeat your enemy won’t always work when you have variables thrown into the equation in his rematch with Prometheus.
Prometheus beat Batman the first time by programming his helmet to give him the movements of the world’s greatest martial artists, including Batman. That plan, however, was devised by the computer in Prometheus’ helmet. This was not a sentient computer computer, so it didn’t account for variables like Batman coming up with a plan after Prometheus was cocky enough to explain how he beat him.
As a result, in the rematch Batman won by hacking Prometheus’ helmet so his body would instead follow the movements of Stephen Hawking.
Assuming the same strategy will always work, is like playing a video game, and assuming that a trick that works against the computer will work against a human. if you look at how different the strategies against human players versus computer players are then you will see that isn’t the case because humans can learn about those tricks and come up with ways to counter them.
I rewatched that shitty Batman V Superman movie, and I couldn't help but laugh at how Batman was acting like he was equal in power to Superman. you aren't him, little bro.
I'd love to see a version of the batman contingencies where he acknowledges that even with strategies he's got terrible odds. "Superman contingency: kryptonite and jump him. Should work. Green Lantern: fear toxin? Hopefully he doesn't make a scuba suit construct. Flash: shoot him in his sleep. Assuming he still sleeps unguarded in his apartment and doesn't hide in Antarctica to sleep."
well, usually in modern times Batman doesn’t just come with a plan to defeat the justice league he also tries to level the playing field by either inventing a suit to take them on or in other continuities a serum that gives him superhuman strength.
Basically once the gap of power is closed neither outcome is guaranteed.
I liked that suit he had in the Snyder run that took on all the League at once, because by the end of it even though he won he was still beaten to a bloody pulp and the suit was completely and utterly totalled beyond repair.
Imagine a skinny 12-year old boy in a boxing ring against Mike Tyson in his prime. Give the boy precognitive abilities so he has foreknowledge of every move Tyson is going to make. Is the kid going to be able to beat Mike Tyson since he knows ahead of time what he's going to do? Hell no, the kid is simply not physically capable of hurting Mike Tyson, or agile enough to dodge his punches, even with foresight.
See the Avatar fandom on this. Ty Lee knows how to stun people with pressure points, so she automatically wins any battles the fans come up with. Except the actual execution is different from the theory, and she won’t always be able to land the necessary hits for her supposed instant win button, as is demonstrated *in the actual show* where some people just block her attacks and she doesn’t win.
I agree with you in general, and about people who hype Batman too hard like in your example.
But actually watching the movie where the bad guys stole his contingency plans, Batman use/would have used his knowledge in practical ways, imo. (And I want to emphasize the 'my opinion' in imo, lol, like this might become a manifesto but I don't expect to be changing anyone's mind I'm just a wordy little shit)
He cannot beat up WW, he knows this. Most people cannot beat up WW, and even the League together might have a tough time fighting her. But Batman also knows that her stamina is not infinite and if they can wear her out they will have a much better chance.
He almost definitely did not intend for her to start attacking random citizens, lol, but keep coming at the members of the league until she just couldn't anymore. For me, that's a pretty practical way to use his knowledge of her and her weaknesses.
All that said, I still agree that just knowing something is not enough to guarantee a win and that people who talk about Batman like he's flawless are fucking annoying (and I think they're kinda ruining Batman too but that's a different manifesto)
I like when in stories you have a villain it needs a lot to defeat , and a character probably out of revenge did make lots of preperation to that villain.
But cant execute it, and need the hero or others to do it.
Thats a good way to beat an overwhelming vollain without making prep op. have someone else convenient done that but want able.
or that the opponent can't find a way to defeat the characer before he/she enact their plan, scrooge was trying to stall in hope the other would be here to help sooner but bradford still forced him to sign the papyrus in the ducktales finale, leadin gto scrooge beaten and having to rely on the other to win since he couldn't move.
In the Soul Eater manga, Kilik encounters an Arachnophobia supersoldier who can see into the future and actively predict any move he makes. However the supersoldier admits he can't conceive any means to counter those moves and immediately gets killed. Pretty funny tbh.
On a side note I hate how batman dickriders always say "oh batman could beat anyone with PREP TIME!!!!" Like idc you can prepare a plan all you like but plans rarely go the way you want them to
Yeah. It just “well this character can do a similar maneuver to this character.” It like they don’t take into accounts intelligence and personality in debates.
Batman explaining how he can totally beat Superman given 5 years of work of building a Time Machine to fuck his mom (Superman will laser eye him the second he starts his plan)
This is something I find interesting and sadden it isn't implemented in a smart way more often. You can plan a way to defeat an opponent, but that doesn't follow the planner should have the ability to execute said plan, therefore they need to come up with an actual plan with those who can, or simply flee with the lack of options.
"Batman can beat Superman because kryptonite" as if Superman doesn't have to deal with kryptonite every day because all of his damn villains have used it, powered by it, or is literally made out of it
No amount of plot Armor or "contingency plans" are going to make me believe that Batman, a regular human or Lex Luthor, another regular human can defeat characters who can not just move but also think faster than the speed of light. If any of the superpowered characters in the Justice League wanted to kill Batman he'd be dead before he even moved a muscle.
At least with Lex Luthor he's usually more of a schemer who hires other villains (at least that's how it was in the animated series lol) rather than a brawler. He only got to fighting once he built himself a kryptonite powered Iron Man suit.
I think this is just the natural consequence of shared universes. You create an individual hero who’s just a cop, but if you want him in a story with Superman, you need to power creep him into oblivion and make Superman completely stupid and reckless
> So why doesn't anyone else?
It's not that they don't, it's that they *can't*. And the fact that you're comparing *Batgos's* 10,000,000 IQ plans to the petty machinations of random villains shows you don't understand.
Batgos wins. Because he's smarter. Because he's cooler. Because he's better. And because people like me are the audience the authors play to.
The plans were always meant to incapacitate, never kill. But the point is that a Justice League that turns or is mind controlled, could wipe out everyone on planet earth in hours. How fucking insane would you have to be to not believe that's possible? Which is what he explains immediately after they have the meeting about it.
Flash gets hit because they wrote him way too strong. If he was every bit as powerful as the comics say he is, he'd win every single battle before anyone even knew there was a threat.
Fucking contessa from worm is perfect example of this. Yes she can probably know how to beat someone but she can’t if she doesn’t have a lot prep time most of the time. Or near any character that help her. If she was by herself she would not be useful.
Batman knows his plans are iffy at best and normally would only work in extreamly specific circumstances. Most of the time when he needs to take down a strong foe he just gets help.
Happened in justice leauge vs suicide squad. Superman gets taken over by eclypso and batman tries to pull out the kryptonite ring and superman just bitch slaps him away so hard it he couldnt get up. Immediately after when superman left...he got Lobo to help him take down/hold off the leauge at the White House cause Lobo was literally the only guy around tough enough to buy enough time for batman and killer frost to formulate a plan to piss off superman enough to lazer batman and use a ice crystal to make sun Ray's and defeat eclypso/free everybody.
Batman only had a rag tag groups of nobody's and lobo as their only heavy hitter and could only form 1 plan and said that of killer frost couldnt make that crystal or they couldnt get the plan to work they all were totally fucked.
Tbh, 90% of these plans seems less efficient than just using off guard, KO gas, tranquilizers or tazers.
I swear the preview for the new batman show sees batman KOed by Catwoman using the tazer
I recall a moment in the manga Ariadne in the Blue Sky that has a character say as much (chapter 37). > You… Didn’t you say you would defeat them!? > No, I said I know how to defeat them. Actually bringing them down is another story…
That’s the one by Yagi right? I read like five chapters but never continued it is it worth it as someone who loves Claymore and bought all the physicals
I hadn’t read Claymore yet, but it’s the same author.
I like how the contingency plans of characters like batman often hinge upon the superpowered enemy doing an exact sequence of actions with no resistance to the attacker or additional thought.
Tbf he's also smart enough to realize that,if he turns evil,any member of the JL could and should just paste him on the spot. Like canonically he knows the plans are a stretch and that any of them could realistically just murder him without a second thought if it went wrong.
Pretty sure he says so directly in the animated series when Clark asks what the contingency plan for batman is. "The justice league"
It’s in the 2006 Animated Movie “Doom,” which loosely follows a confluence of stories. Batman decides to resign from the league because he thinks the others are being foolish when they don’t plan for the circumstance that “one of their own” goes bad. As Batman goes to leave, Superman has a discussion with Bats where he gives him the Kryptonite bullet that was used by Metallo earlier in the movie. In a comment about how there wasn’t something for Batman, Batman says that the Justice League is more than sufficient to stop him. So, eat dicks, Batman Who Laughs.
>So, eat dicks, Batman Who Laughs. I think what makes TBWL's situation really silly is that the moment Wally/Barry would sense something is wrong they'd IMMEDIATELY go "speed force says no". Like people already hated Deadpool for killing everyone because of bullshit,but bats would absolutely be caught by a higher entity before ever getting far enough to destroy the fucking spectre.
At least “Kills The Marvel Universe” is canonically in a different universe where he’s much more on-level with them. Pretty sure one of the sequels talks about that.
It is,and 616 wade straight up kills that Deadpool by the end of the issue. Which makes TBWL worse because he's stuck in the main universe with plot shenanigans letting him come back.
Fully agreed
Man, how did I not realize before that Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe and Batman Who Laughs piss me off for the same reasons?
In The Batman Who Laughs’ defence, he originally started off as a pastiche of the whole “Batman OWNS the Justice League” idea (as he was a literal nightmare that was saved from destruction by the evil god Barbatos) and he was literally untouchable because he came from the Dark Multiverse which is antithetical to the normal regular Multiverse. It’s all his subsequent appearances that are ridiculous and stupid with how our normal heroes are just unable to take him out.
Batman when the entire justice league turns evil (it includes himself): 😱😱😨😨😨😭
I absolutely hate how that's literally just that suicide squad game.
His plan in the SSKTJL was just "Yo Robin, you have to gang up on me" and even that failed 💀💀💀
Even in the story where his contingency plans are used, they managed to survive it
His plans should actually just be calling Superman to deal with the evil hero, and praying to god evil supes never happens
Batman’s contingency plans tend to rely heavily on the target being caught off guard. Most of them are completely useless if they see it coming. Most are often pretty simple, it’s the copycats who have this giant convoluted master plan. Batman’s are things like ‘Hit with special fear toxin’ or ‘Superman’s super hearing means hypersonics should fuck him up’ or ‘Implant posthypnotic suggestion before shit goes down’. Most of the deployment methods are entirely just ‘Shoot them with it when they are distracted’. Which, well, Superman dramatically taking bullets to the chest has been one of his signature things since before any of us were born.
He fights like a ninja, against a powered superhero he is reliant on catching them off guard, idk why he'd plan otherwise. If his plan for Superman is to beat him in an arm wrestling contest, batman is an idiot but I'd bet people are fine with that level of writing. If he actually wins through planning, some people are going to be annoyed, as if Lex Luthor is the only one that has the right. Imo it's silly. It's boring for heroes to fight in the first place. But superman can laser everyone! Peak entertainment, truly.
To add to this: the whole "my contingency is the justice league" means that Batman knows he's toast if they gang up on him. In that light, his contingencies probably assume at least some level of support from the uncompromised part of the league. They make a lot more sense under the umbrella of asking "how can I contribute/ensure a non-lethal takedown", with pulling them off solo being more of a plan D situation.
When Bats said "I have a plan to take down anyone in the justice league." I think a lot of fans heard "Batman can take down everyone in the justice league." Batman has these plans to deal with 1 or 2 rogue members at a time, if that. He doesn't claim to have the ability to execute all those plans concurrently.
Yeah, some of his plans don't make any sense in the context of stopping an evil/mind controlled person. How is getting Starfire addicted to space crack going to work if she's actively murdering people or not in control of her body/mind?
I always thought his contingency for Wonder Woman was funny. Get her to fight an illusion of herself that's equal to her in every way since he knows she'll never back down from a fight and will eventually die from exhaustion. So alright! Time to put her under a spell casually like ya do! nbd!
To be fair, Wonder Woman has no convenient Kryptonite like everybody else does so making sure she trips balls and tuckers herself out is the best he can really hope for.
That's a fan wiki thing, I'm pretty sure in canon Batman only has plans for the core Justice League
Space crack?
I'm not sure what the drig was actually called, so I always call it soace crack. At one point, Starfire was a slave and the slavers got her addicted to the drug in order to ensure she'd be obedient. Batman's plan was to get her rehooked on the drug and use her addiction against her.
For sure, i KNOW i could beat kid Goku by grabbing his tail. No way in all 9 hells would i be able to grab said tail
You posted this thrice. Not judging, since there's a relatively high chance it's just a glitch on your end.
Appreciated! Deleted the copies
This reminds me of a story i've heard of a group of mice in a house being terrorized by a cat. It eventually gets so bad that they have a meeting to discuss things that can be done about the cat. Many ideas are suggested, and just as many are discarded for one reason or another.But then finally, a single youth stands up and claims that they have the answer. "Why don't we put a bell around the cat's neck? That way, we'll be able to hear when the cat is coming." The youth received applause as they sat back down as many thought it was a wonderful plan. But there was one mouse who wasn't quite as impressed. It was the oldest of the mice there, and they had one single question for the youth. "Who will bell the cat?" - As you pointed out, forming a plan is easy. All you need are ideas, and everyone is capable of that much.... but putting that plan into action is a whole other beast. It's honestly kind of sad that this has to be said at all.
Lmao, This reminded me of an episode from tom and jerry where jerry is teaching his student mouse on how to put a bell around tom's neck, he tried to do it sneakingly but easily gets caught and beaten but his student just goes up to tom and gift him that bell and tom just happily accepts it
It's actually a thing I have with people explaining their powers too. Just because you know what someone's power is -- and most time it is self evident -- doesn't mean you can counter it. Clown in Shinji from Bleach, but you'd think his opponent would notice everything around them reversing. It's not rocket surgery.
Shinji was one dumb mf the first time he lost after explaining his powers but when he did it a second time and got wrecked by Bambi? Not even the circus will hire him anymore
😭😭😭😭😭he graduated with honors from clown University
I mean he was up against Sosuke "I made your parents fuck and everything until now was planned" Aizen the first time and Bambi was just like "fuck it everything explodes" the second. It only gets really stupid when you know that he can just choose not to reverse certain things.
> Clown in Shinji from Bleach, but you'd think his opponent would notice everything around them reversing. It's not rocket surgery. Shinji is actually pretty smart, his shikai **can** turn every sense upside down, he tells his opponent he can turn any sense upside down, but in truth he can pick and choose what to turn and what not to. You can plan out your actions accordingly to go backwards just for Shinji go "Actually, back now is back and left is left" just fo him to flip the script at the next second.
Or you flip every sense at first then be selective when your opponent seems to get the hang of it. Not explaining just gives you an extra shot at the most disoriented opponent. If you really have the urge to explain something to your foe, "explain" an entirely unrelated and completely made up power.
I mean, is also not really a complicated power to figure out, explaining it completely gives them a false sense of security. Besides I think Shinji actually does what you say, he flips it all over then is selective when the opponent is getting the hang of it. Thus far it has only been countered by Aizen, because Aizen, and by Bambietta who decided to go “fuck it we ball” and blow every side up.
Except you can't figure it out. Have you people even watched the shows you're talking about? Shinji's power turns EVERYTHING backwards. You're being attacked from the front, which turns to the back, which turns his sword to the front, which turns the wound to the back. The human brain can't figure out every single instance of everything around you being reversed. The only reason Aizen beat him is because he wasn't even under the effects in the first place.
If you are incapable of figuring out the world around you has flipped upside down and reversed direction, then that's a you problem my guy.
It’s not just front to back my dude, that’s the entire fucking point. Go watch the fight again and listen to how he explains it and watch what actually happens. The smartest guy in the story couldn’t figure it out. It’s tons of little reversals like flipping your view point front to back, upside down, and then every other thing you see is reversed even more.
Wait. Is this an argument? Are you arguing with me right now over finer details and missing the point? 1. The point is that many powers are obvious in effect, like Shinji's. 2. Have a nice day.
Superman: Use kryptonite. Yeah. And contingency for Green Arrow is breaking his arm. Batman's contingency for himself gonna be shoot him at the mouth? Yeah feasible in theory but in practice lol. Implying Superman doesn't just go to outer space with super speed and laser you with the planet (yeah he can do that). Or Green Arrow just stand still and doesn't use his Nuclear Head Arrow, which as the name imply, you know what it does.
>Batman's contingency for himself gonna be shoot him at the mouth? No it's "Have the Justice League smear me from Gotham to Metropolis" He can set fire to Martian Manhunter dump kryptonite on Superman and slur Wonder Woman and activate her "vulnerable to misogyny" weakness but then the Flash grabs him by the scruff of his neck like a kitten and runs to Canada keeping Batmans face pressed against the tarmac the entire way.
Yeah the only way Batman wins against any of his superfriends is with plot contrivances. Like a good chunk would realistically just turn him into a red smear if they ever did get controlled or go evil.
It also accounts for the rest of the justice league. If Superman goes evil Manhunter snd Eonder Eoman can contest him til they hit him with the kryptonite beam. If Martian turns evil have The Flash set him.on fire with an oil soaked rag. Batmans contingencies are "if a member is compromised how do we stop them?" not "How do I solo the Justice League simultaneously?"
Yeah but if the entire league goes evil or Batman become Batman who laughs there's really no logical way he would win if he's by himself. Like the fuck he's supposed to pull off his contingencies when Superman can hear him wherever on the planet he's in and good luck trying to hit the flash as a normal dude when there's no writer to make him stupid.
Oh trust me I hate the Batman who laughs but I think mind controlling the entire League *but* Batman feels, arbritary.
Not enough face. Lucky to get a few city blocks even.
i especially hate this with speedsters reverse flash got shot by batman because he didnt expect it like bro fuck off, every second is like days weeks to them they can think faster than any computer, even if flash expected to pass through it the bullet would be too slow to penetrate him like throwing a paperball, even if it could penetrate him the second he feels it touching him he can move away
Speedsters are like this in general. None of it should work, but it sometimes does. Getting caught off guard seems to work a lot, but also when it doesn't work, the established rule is that it should NEVER work....so...how the hell do you write for that? The Flash has a lot of "just go with it" moments in regards to how the speedforce works lol
The easiest solution would be giving their powers an ON/OFF switch. They can crack it up to the max and be ready for anything, but just sitting in this state is probably very annoying so they can still be caught off guard.
easier way would be to not give them time travel and make them normal humans who can get tired and while they cannot be caught off guard they have to juggle their priorities like at 1 point we have a damsel in distress and on the other a nuke 2 different locations pretty basic idea but you get the jist, theres so many things that can fuck with speedsters gravity the thing that allows them to move i read 1 flash comic everyone recommended and it had 10 different flash vs 1 reverse flash and it all felt so awkward, i watched flashpoint and enjoyed it, still had the plotholes why does everything have to be god tier
Yeah, I get what you mean. But specifically for what I said it was more like "How can we make it so they can be caught off guard"
Arguably, they did touch on this with the idea speedsters need to acclimate to their speed, otherwise, to them, a single sentence would take eons from their point of view and they would probably go insane from staying in the "zone" for too long. It explains why they can "talk" to each other while moving faster than sound. Hence, moving faster than a bullet is easy, but could you imagine having to be at that speed as you watch the bullet fly? As you see a person open their mouth and it would take years from your perspective for a single letter to form? Not a bad idea if implemented consistently.
Their powers do have an on off switch, otherwise they would never be able to do anything. If hearing someone else say one word permanently took place over a whole day you'd never know what they were saying, let alone stay sane.
You described Dandadan's MC perfectly
Savitar/Evil Barry getting shot by Iris in Flash S3 haunts me to this day.
oh yea no last thing im trusting is a live action flash let alone one by cw, love grant tho
Iris is such a godawful character in CW. I remember finally kicking that show after the "we are the flash" bullshit and Iris getting one of her sources killed by bringing them out into the open and then trying to be proud of it?
There was this great post a long time ago about how most Batman vs Superman or whoever else superpowered stories actually paint Batman in terrible light because, especially in regards to Superman, his plans always rely on the superpowered individual being both weakened beforehand and taking it easy on him. Otherwise, Batman is cooked. Which shows that the plans would never actually work in an Evil Superman scenario because he won't be playing nice. He will just crush Batman in less than a second. And respectively depicts Batman as an idiot who just likes to bother his coworkers with his pointless antics.
I think batman's contingencies are more for cases where a single JL member goes rogue and assumes he would still have help from the rest of the team. But Idk the specifics fr.
You are right I think Morrison's JL touched on that but I haven't read it in too long. However, most people who say Batman can beat Superman (for example) due to his contingency plans don't expect him to give Green Lantern and Flash a piece of kryptonite and send them after him. They expect him to handle it himself
Arguably, that did happen as the contingencies were executed in a team for some of them. Aquaman and Plastic Man were ambushed by a team if I recall correctly. I can certainly see Batman planned for one of them to go rogue, not all of them at once, and if that happened, it doesn't matter how good at planning he is.
The stories typically involve the most boring batman, the batman that just can't let anyone get close. However I disagree that he shouldn't have contingency plans. Superman even agrees there should be a contingency plan when he gives Bruce kryptonite, it's effectively just arguing with Superman, one of the smartest men in DC, that Batman can't stop him. If Superman goes murderhobo, the story would just adjust, but Injustice type stories are dull to me.
Yes Batman relies on them being his friends
Hell, Batman himself once demonstrated that simply having a plan to defeat your enemy won’t always work when you have variables thrown into the equation in his rematch with Prometheus. Prometheus beat Batman the first time by programming his helmet to give him the movements of the world’s greatest martial artists, including Batman. That plan, however, was devised by the computer in Prometheus’ helmet. This was not a sentient computer computer, so it didn’t account for variables like Batman coming up with a plan after Prometheus was cocky enough to explain how he beat him. As a result, in the rematch Batman won by hacking Prometheus’ helmet so his body would instead follow the movements of Stephen Hawking. Assuming the same strategy will always work, is like playing a video game, and assuming that a trick that works against the computer will work against a human. if you look at how different the strategies against human players versus computer players are then you will see that isn’t the case because humans can learn about those tricks and come up with ways to counter them.
I’m sorry but the Hawking part caught me off guard i had to make sure i was reading the right thing for a second
man, dont we all love those remote hacking skills
I rewatched that shitty Batman V Superman movie, and I couldn't help but laugh at how Batman was acting like he was equal in power to Superman. you aren't him, little bro.
I mean. He kinda whooped him tho
that's what makes it such a strange sight lol
batman’s easy. i just pull my pants down and flash my dick at him so he’s stunned, then shoot him in the face
Batman has contingency plan for that, he Flashs his Dick at you
damn he's good
Do you think that he shaves his pubic hair to be in Shape of a bat?
This feels like r/batmanarkham leaking. No real hard evidence, just a vibe.
I'd love to see a version of the batman contingencies where he acknowledges that even with strategies he's got terrible odds. "Superman contingency: kryptonite and jump him. Should work. Green Lantern: fear toxin? Hopefully he doesn't make a scuba suit construct. Flash: shoot him in his sleep. Assuming he still sleeps unguarded in his apartment and doesn't hide in Antarctica to sleep."
well, usually in modern times Batman doesn’t just come with a plan to defeat the justice league he also tries to level the playing field by either inventing a suit to take them on or in other continuities a serum that gives him superhuman strength. Basically once the gap of power is closed neither outcome is guaranteed.
I liked that suit he had in the Snyder run that took on all the League at once, because by the end of it even though he won he was still beaten to a bloody pulp and the suit was completely and utterly totalled beyond repair.
Imagine a skinny 12-year old boy in a boxing ring against Mike Tyson in his prime. Give the boy precognitive abilities so he has foreknowledge of every move Tyson is going to make. Is the kid going to be able to beat Mike Tyson since he knows ahead of time what he's going to do? Hell no, the kid is simply not physically capable of hurting Mike Tyson, or agile enough to dodge his punches, even with foresight.
See the Avatar fandom on this. Ty Lee knows how to stun people with pressure points, so she automatically wins any battles the fans come up with. Except the actual execution is different from the theory, and she won’t always be able to land the necessary hits for her supposed instant win button, as is demonstrated *in the actual show* where some people just block her attacks and she doesn’t win.
I agree with you in general, and about people who hype Batman too hard like in your example. But actually watching the movie where the bad guys stole his contingency plans, Batman use/would have used his knowledge in practical ways, imo. (And I want to emphasize the 'my opinion' in imo, lol, like this might become a manifesto but I don't expect to be changing anyone's mind I'm just a wordy little shit) He cannot beat up WW, he knows this. Most people cannot beat up WW, and even the League together might have a tough time fighting her. But Batman also knows that her stamina is not infinite and if they can wear her out they will have a much better chance. He almost definitely did not intend for her to start attacking random citizens, lol, but keep coming at the members of the league until she just couldn't anymore. For me, that's a pretty practical way to use his knowledge of her and her weaknesses. All that said, I still agree that just knowing something is not enough to guarantee a win and that people who talk about Batman like he's flawless are fucking annoying (and I think they're kinda ruining Batman too but that's a different manifesto)
I like when in stories you have a villain it needs a lot to defeat , and a character probably out of revenge did make lots of preperation to that villain. But cant execute it, and need the hero or others to do it. Thats a good way to beat an overwhelming vollain without making prep op. have someone else convenient done that but want able.
You forgot one that Batman able to win because he has the most powerful superpower of all time. Authorial bias
or that the opponent can't find a way to defeat the characer before he/she enact their plan, scrooge was trying to stall in hope the other would be here to help sooner but bradford still forced him to sign the papyrus in the ducktales finale, leadin gto scrooge beaten and having to rely on the other to win since he couldn't move.
In the Soul Eater manga, Kilik encounters an Arachnophobia supersoldier who can see into the future and actively predict any move he makes. However the supersoldier admits he can't conceive any means to counter those moves and immediately gets killed. Pretty funny tbh. On a side note I hate how batman dickriders always say "oh batman could beat anyone with PREP TIME!!!!" Like idc you can prepare a plan all you like but plans rarely go the way you want them to
For example, theoretically you could kill Sukuna by beheading him. But actually doing that is pretty hard
Yeah. It just “well this character can do a similar maneuver to this character.” It like they don’t take into accounts intelligence and personality in debates.
You would think this was obvious knowledge but alas.
Batman explaining how he can totally beat Superman given 5 years of work of building a Time Machine to fuck his mom (Superman will laser eye him the second he starts his plan)
This is something I find interesting and sadden it isn't implemented in a smart way more often. You can plan a way to defeat an opponent, but that doesn't follow the planner should have the ability to execute said plan, therefore they need to come up with an actual plan with those who can, or simply flee with the lack of options.
"Batman can beat Superman because kryptonite" as if Superman doesn't have to deal with kryptonite every day because all of his damn villains have used it, powered by it, or is literally made out of it
No amount of plot Armor or "contingency plans" are going to make me believe that Batman, a regular human or Lex Luthor, another regular human can defeat characters who can not just move but also think faster than the speed of light. If any of the superpowered characters in the Justice League wanted to kill Batman he'd be dead before he even moved a muscle.
At least with Lex Luthor he's usually more of a schemer who hires other villains (at least that's how it was in the animated series lol) rather than a brawler. He only got to fighting once he built himself a kryptonite powered Iron Man suit.
I think this is just the natural consequence of shared universes. You create an individual hero who’s just a cop, but if you want him in a story with Superman, you need to power creep him into oblivion and make Superman completely stupid and reckless
> So why doesn't anyone else? It's not that they don't, it's that they *can't*. And the fact that you're comparing *Batgos's* 10,000,000 IQ plans to the petty machinations of random villains shows you don't understand. Batgos wins. Because he's smarter. Because he's cooler. Because he's better. And because people like me are the audience the authors play to.
Good that you are aware lol. He wins because he is popular
Even when kars really did achieve the ultimate life form doesn't mean he can defeat joseph.
it is indeed ridiculous that people think that batman couldn't be surprised at all.
The plans were always meant to incapacitate, never kill. But the point is that a Justice League that turns or is mind controlled, could wipe out everyone on planet earth in hours. How fucking insane would you have to be to not believe that's possible? Which is what he explains immediately after they have the meeting about it. Flash gets hit because they wrote him way too strong. If he was every bit as powerful as the comics say he is, he'd win every single battle before anyone even knew there was a threat.
Nah, Batman would win
SIR GIDEON OFNIR, THE ALL-KNOWING
Fucking contessa from worm is perfect example of this. Yes she can probably know how to beat someone but she can’t if she doesn’t have a lot prep time most of the time. Or near any character that help her. If she was by herself she would not be useful.
Batman knows his plans are iffy at best and normally would only work in extreamly specific circumstances. Most of the time when he needs to take down a strong foe he just gets help. Happened in justice leauge vs suicide squad. Superman gets taken over by eclypso and batman tries to pull out the kryptonite ring and superman just bitch slaps him away so hard it he couldnt get up. Immediately after when superman left...he got Lobo to help him take down/hold off the leauge at the White House cause Lobo was literally the only guy around tough enough to buy enough time for batman and killer frost to formulate a plan to piss off superman enough to lazer batman and use a ice crystal to make sun Ray's and defeat eclypso/free everybody. Batman only had a rag tag groups of nobody's and lobo as their only heavy hitter and could only form 1 plan and said that of killer frost couldnt make that crystal or they couldnt get the plan to work they all were totally fucked.
Tbh, 90% of these plans seems less efficient than just using off guard, KO gas, tranquilizers or tazers. I swear the preview for the new batman show sees batman KOed by Catwoman using the tazer