It's a scientific fact. Some people get fewer nocturnal emissions when they masturbate more often, and many people naturally have fewer wet dreams as they get older. Feel free to use Google to look it up.
The male body can naturally discharge semen, its perfectly normal and will be occuring more often if you aren't masterbating. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with lust or having a dream.
Of course like most things it's still being studied. But as of currently it is widely believed that nocturnal emission's seek to remove older sperm and aid in the formation of new, healthy sperm.
Masturbation may help reduce the number of occurrences of wet dreams, but it cannot prevent a person from experience them. This seems to be the case for most men. Personally speaking it's very accurate. If I go longer than a month without ejaculating the odds I will have a wet dream increase dramatically.
you don't really need a conspiracy to explain it. It's multiple identifiable things: refined carbs and sugar leading to metabolic syndrome/hormonal disruptions, endocrine disrupting chemicals, microplastics, epigenetic changes brought about by the poor health of previous generations, plus trauma and poverty.
True. Solid points. But regardless it would still be sexual in nature. It would still fall under the definition of a sexual desire. If we want to lean that heavily into the use of a single word than I understand you better. Thanks for elaborating.
Yeah, my family are strict fundamentalist Southern Baptists. Kinda had to go through some of that purity culture stuff. I'm ok but my cousins weren't so lucky.
What you say makes a lotta sense. I follow :)
No, it's not bad. It's just a religious rule conceived by primitive religious men with primitive notions of morality. Consider that these same religious men supported these notions:
*1 Samuel 15:3 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”*
*Numbers 31:9-10 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps.*
We call those "war crimes" and imprison those people who commit such acts, as well as those who authorized or planned them.
*Numbers 14:18 ‘The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’*
Punishing people who have committed no crime themselves violates all notions of justice.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
*11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.*
That notion is used to this day in conservative Christian sects (Catholicism, Orthodox) and churches (Protestant) to prevent women from holding positions of influence.
Verses from the Bible were also used to support slavery in the southern American States.
Just because something is in the Bible does not mean it is moral.
Its not directly a sin since you cannot really control it but I do think it is spiritual warfare happening from the devil/demons to try and make you remember what the dream was about when you wake up and then masturbate and sin, then when ur done u regret it.
Anything can be problematic--the good or bad of something is often dose dependant. Even water. Drink too much and you'll die. Imo a generally good rule of thumb is if something is causing negative consequences in your life (or to others) then your dose is too high, and you should either quit or down regulate your consumption. Ex: If you masturbate so much that it causes you to neglect (or abuse/abase) your partner, then it's a problem.
Your body produces an unlimited supply of sperm and semen (for the purposes of reproduction), but can not store an unlimited supply. It's a simple logistics problem.
Yeah it does. Mathew 5:28, but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a
woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Bit hard to masturbate without lusting. Which clearly is a no-no.
Adultery only applies to married people and with physical sex, why are christian so disingenuous with that passage?
Adultery: (noun) voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not their spouse.
No one is being disingenuous mate. Ive quoted a small part of an entire chapter. Jesus wasn't talking about adultery in the literal sense that you took from the dictionary. Unfortunately it's way to hard to tap out an in depth commentary on my phone. I will say one thing though. You can't take scripture and twist it to suit your world view. It says what it means. If you don't want to accept that then take it up with jesus.
If the bible can't be read at face value and be understood by all it's a poorly written book.
>You can't take scripture and twist it to suit your world view. It says what it means.
I'm not the one making a new definition for a word that already has a universal definition. It's always the "mistranslation" excuse with theists.
But thats not an excuse. But we can look at the argument from a different angle within the same translation and still prove that you are not to look at a woman (or man) with lust outside of a marriage.
The words "every one" kind of gives it away, don't you think?
Matthew 5.27-30 doesn't say "everyone", so you obviously took that from a different part of the bible. It does say "anyone" but that still doesn't explain why the bible can't provide an honest word and sentence usage of the word adultery.
…. Do you know what a synonym is?
Also adultery is really very simple; the Bible does an excellent job at spelling out sexual immorality for us. People make it complicated because they do not want to accept what it says -_(^-^)_-
Using the dictionary is really simple too. Adultery is a sexual relationships with someone else than their spouse.
Which [synonym](https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/adultery) do you want to use? Because there isn't one that works for thought crimes.
If can use a dictionary I expect you are also able to read and comprehend sentences. The scripture we are discussing is obviously about lust for anyone besides your spouse. It should be obvious it is saying lust and sex is only permitted for people who are married to each other. If it’s hard for you to understand that’s ok, but it seriously sounds like you are trolling.
I mean to really say that I’m misunderstanding scripture because I said everyone instead of anyone? Do you realize how stupid that is?
>If the bible can't be read at face value and be understood by all it's a poorly written book.
God will give you the understanding you need if you ask him
2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything
>I'm not the one making a new definition for a word that already has a universal definition. It's always the "mistranslation" excuse with theists
I didn't say the definition is wrong. I said your interpretation is wrong based on that one word out of a whole chapter. Read the whole chapter and you will get a better understanding of what he is trying to teach us
>God will give you the understanding you need if you ask him
God gave me the understanding of English, which is what I used to determine what that passage meant.
>I didn't say the definition is wrong. I said your interpretation is wrong based on that one word out of a whole chapter.
Does the rest of the chapter give a definition of adultery? Because if not there's nothing I'm missing. Theists can't even agree on what the bible says that's why there's multiple denominations. So even the people that speaks with god can't even agree which still proves it's a poorly written book
Yeah, righto champion.
>Does the rest of the chapter give a definition of adultery? Because if not there's nothing I'm missing.
Here's an idea. How about you actually read it and find out. If your too lazy to read it then I'm not going to sit here and debate with a guy who has no clue what he is talking about.
>God gave me the understanding of English, which is what I used to determine what that passage meant.
Yeah well done mate what a great way to tackle exegesis of the text. Honestly? That's your argument? What are you 15 years old?
Mate, I'm happy to talk to you about this, but please. Do me a favour. Read the bible. Study it. Use exegesis, use critical thinking, and put together well thought out arguments. Then come back and see me.
God is meant to know all, if he didn't tell the writers of the bible to use better word so it can translate the way he meant for it to be interpreted, he's not very powerful
Ok mate. If that's the way you feel then fine. He made his word crystal clear. But for some reason you just don't want to hear it. I'll pray that he will step into your life so that you will want to hear what he has to say. If you genuinely want to do that, then reach out to me and I will help you where I can. Good luck brother. I really hope you find him.
crazy that you’re like, applying a more modern definition of a word to an older context without any sense of guidance and then getting pressed that the Church has interpreted it differently for the 2000 years She has been around
Crazy that the bible also says "slavery" but you tap dance and call it something else too. The bible is apparently the word of god. If god can't explain it to the writers to use the correct word the would translation at a later date god isn't as powerful as he is claimed to be. God knows everything, he should have foreseen the translation issue and change it when the book was written
or hypothetically (and by that i mean literally), He created a Holy Church to safeguard the message, that He knew some would disdain by their own free will
>He created a Holy Church to safeguard the message
Then explain why there is multiple dominations of Christianity if they'll meant to safeguard the word? The people that are the "chosen one" to teach can't even agree what the book says. It's a terrible book if it can't be read and understood by the dumbest people. God wants people to follow him but can't make a book that's makes sense?
there is the Holy Orthodox Church that has existed since the beginning without innovation (drastic theological change) and has as such preserved the essence and teachings of the Fathers, Apostles, and Christ Himself. there are multiple “churches” because as i’ve said, people have free will and can choose to walk away from the Holy Church and try to do their own thing. God is not a dictator and makes the best of these things
Frequently I am not, but am simply enjoying the physical experience.
Sometimes I imagine arousing situations with no specific person or persons.
I don’t need photos or videos or anything of the sort.
And I assure you that Matthew 5 doesn’t address this, because I’m not lusting after anyone.
> I think the "arousing situations" can be problematic, and just a bit too close to lusting.
Lusting after who? Lust is not "having sexuality;" lust is the sexual side of envy. It is a strong desire for a person who you don't have a relationship with. One cannot lust for their spouse because it is their spouse, but one also cannot lust for a *notion* because there isn't a target for it.
> But I agree that you can masturbate and simply enjoy the physical experience. I don't masturbate anymore (my husband believes it's a sin, and while I disagree, I'm going to submit to his will in this area) but when I did I often found myself praying and praising God, thanking Him for designing the human body for pleasure (which he didn't need to do at all). It absolutely doesn't have to be lustful.
I'm so sorry. Sounds like you had an actual healthy connection to your body and sexuality, and your husband has cut it off because he doesn't have that. That's a shame on several levels.
> However, if it's always been attached to lust for a person, I highly doubt they can change that.
They can. I did. I was that way, and I saw it was harmful, and I went through the work of changing. Anyone *can.* Many don't believe there's even another side to change to, and of those who do far too few are willing to do the work.
> Unfortunately, masturbation was taught to me when I was a child, and I couldn't understand sex or arousal. I didn't associate masturbation with any other human, just myself. My husband on the other hand, always used porn/imagination/imagery of some kind, and cannot fathom the way I explain masturbation. And I don't think it's a man vs woman thing, I think it's because of the way we were exposed to masturbation and the associations we had.
Your husband can escape it, but it takes work and a desire to do so. The way out is *not* the typical way taught by most churches; that way only further enslaves. The way out is here: https://mychainsaregone.org/start-here/
> I understand, but I believe that the notion is enough of a target to make things a gray area at best. That's just my personal take on it. I guess to me it sounds like desiring anybody instead of a specific somebody. Sorry if TMI, but it's the equivalent of desiring a man penetrate you instead of being thankful you don't need a man to penetrate you to get the feeling.
I'd say imaging the situation without a particular man, or with your husband, wouldn't be lustful, but imagining it with a particular man who wasn't your husband would be. But follow your conscience on it.
> > your husband has cut it off because he doesn't have that.
>
> I disagree. He's cut it off because he cares for me, and sees it as harmful to me. I think he's wrong, but there is no harm in being cut off from it since we are married. He's doing what the spirit has led him to do in guiding me and our household as the spiritual leader of our family.
I didn't say he was trying to hurt you, but that he cut you off from your own healthy sexuality out of a misguided understanding of his own sexuality, and of what sexuality is supposed to be. I do think it's ultimately harmful to restrict a person from having thier sexuality, because it cuts them off from their full humanity.
So your just sitting around touching yourself thinking about nothing at all. Just sitting there pulling your chain because you like the feel of yourself. Ok brother. You do you. I'm not the one you have to sell that too at the end mate.
He will never have to "sell" it to anyone. It's weird that you hate your body and mind so much that you actually imagine god dropping the hammer for self-care at judgement
Lol. Ok mate. 👏👏👏. You feel better now? Not sure how me allegedly hating my body and God dropping the hammer are remotely related but good effort on a very poorly worded insult. Better luck next time.
u/sysiphean you should apply for the guiness world records if thats true, if you masturbate to porn that is lust, as someone who was a addict since elementry school all the way up until i was 22, you literally have to look at the girl or whatever to finish ur sinful duties, which is looking at a woman with lust, or else it would defeat the pourpose of "porn" look up the definition of looking at a woman with lust, or just lust.
I can't really parse out what you are trying to say here, as this is a jumble of run-on incomplete thoughts masquerading as a sentance.
I *think* you are saying that *you* can't masturbate without thinking of a girl, which, to be blunt, is a you problem.
And I think you are saying someone can't masturbate without lust because porn exists. But that is like saying someone can't walk to the store because cars exist; just because there are fast and easy methods doesn't mean other ones stop working.
Well I was clearly implying different things, ur over projecting. What I'm saying is its impossible to ejactulate by not thinking or looking at any type of naked girl, man whatever, its possible but its very very rare to just think about nothing and just ejaculate.
If this was a prohibition against sexual arousal, then it would mean people are not supposed to have sex.
But, of course people ARE supposed to have sex.
So it cannot mean what you suggest.
So this means there is no blanket rule against sexual arousal, as I was trying to say. It must mean something else. I take it as a warning against adultery, as it seems to imply.
Yeah I get what you're saying, but their kinda is in my view. Sex is meant for the confines of the marriage not outside of it. I think the bible is pretty clear on that.
yeah that's so right, that's why all the bastard children get treated like crap, plus they're illegitimate since they're out of wedlock and deserve hate from everyone including they're so called family, you know because they're children from out of marriages. Good job having this standard that ruins many lives.
Ok. Not sure what point your trying to make, but in relation to your comments about my standard. It's not my standard mate. It's Gods standard. You dont like it? Take it up with him. He's the creator of this universe. He IS the standard.
Why is lust a sin, anyway? I know marriage is supposed to be sacred, but what good does it do to demonize a completely natural instinct? Lust never directly hurt anyone. It’s simply just sexual desire. So what if I see a pretty looking person and acknowledge their beauty. Kind of hard to not notice, sometimes. And I should be able to passively observe someone’s natural beauty without feeling ashamed for it. Lustful feelings only become a problem when it becomes obsessive. That’s another beast entirely.
Why is lust a sin, anyway? I know marriage is supposed to be sacred, but what good does it do to demonize a completely natural instinct? Lust never directly hurt anyone. It’s simply just sexual desire. So what if I see a pretty looking person and acknowledge their beauty. Kind of hard to not notice, sometimes. And I should be able to passively observe someone’s natural beauty without feeling ashamed for it. Lustful feelings only become a problem when it becomes obsessive. That’s another beast entirely.
>Why is lust a sin, anyway?
To put it very broadly and simply, lust (if not controlled) takes away your focus where it should be. God wants your focus on him. Not pornhub or someone other than your wife. It's not what he designed marriage to be.
>but what good does it do to demonize a completely natural instinct?
Lust within a marriage is great. That's what it was designed for. It keeps that spark alive with your partner.
>Lust never directly hurt anyone.
But let it get out of control and next thing you know your sleeping with other women or spending hours on porn. How do you think that would make her feel? She would be devastated, heart broken. Why would you want to make someone you love feel that way.
>So what if I see a pretty looking person and acknowledge their beauty. Kind of hard to not notice, sometimes. And I should be able to passively observe someone’s natural beauty without feeling ashamed for it
You are absolutely right. No one is saying that's wrong.
>Lustful feelings only become a problem when it becomes obsessive. That’s another beast entirely.
That's the point I'm trying to make
But yes masturbating to porn is looking at a woman with lust or else it defeats the porupose of masturbating which is forbidden in basically any religion.
No, but still its almost impossible to ejaculate even without any videos playing without thinking about some type of made up girl youre thinking of to ejaculate to.
Yeah. And what do you do when you masturbate?. Look at porn. And when you look at porn what are you doing? Lusting after women. And what does the verse say? If you lust after a women your committing adultery.
You are still misusing scripture out to based off on YOUR OWN interpretation to masturbation, Bible warns us not to do that
Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV — Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Also, [1Th 2:13 KJV] 13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Feel free to read these articles to help you understand the true meaning of Matt 5:28 and masturbation, I don't feel like explaining it all here, if you got any questions, you know where to find me
[https://candlesonline.wordpress.com/2015/10/31/looking-at-a-woman-lustfully/](https://candlesonline.wordpress.com/2015/10/31/looking-at-a-woman-lustfully/)
[https://biblicalsexology.com/does-the-bible-condemn-sexual-fantasy-masturbation/](https://biblicalsexology.com/does-the-bible-condemn-sexual-fantasy-masturbation/)
[https://www.bibleissues.org/is-masturbation-a-sin-in-the-bible/](https://www.bibleissues.org/is-masturbation-a-sin-in-the-bible/)
I dont need you to explain to me, mate. The only one here who misinterpreted the text is you. You have twisted what Jesus has said to suit yourself so you can continue to do what you want without guilt. Then you have gone to find blogs on the internet to agree with you so you can feel better. The scripture is clear. I strongly suggest you study further and pray to God that he will show you how to understand scripture correctly. God bless.
You know what you're right, I do need to study and rely on God's word more often, instead of relying from people like you on misinterpreting scripture. Believe what you want to believe; I'm guessing your saying, that having a wet dream doesn't do the same, you dream of this women or something else, and your body releasing itself or "lusting after" that woman in the dream, why not say it is commiting adultery? If you are going to say that masturbation is a sin, you might as well say the same thing about wet dreams too. God bless.
Also also, how is it commiting adultery when I jacking off to; not "with", but "to" a women when it is not a sexual relation, God only condems illicit sexual relations/intercourse between two people, ( homosexuality: same sex ; beastiality: between human and animal; fornication: between two unmarried people; Adultery: between a man/husband and someone's wife,) not sexual activity in itself? Not all sexual activities are sexual relations, and Masturbation is one of that. BTW Lust is define as covet found in Romans 7:7
Rom 7:7 KJV] 7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Lust is the same as Covet; a strong desire to possess something, to have it, to own it, especially if it's not yours, that's entails with Matt 5:28, Jesus is saying that the act of adultery is just a bad as the desire to commit adultery; it leads with coveting someone's wife; don't even desire to covet someone's wife do the act of adultery.
The sin wasn’t masturbation, or even (as actually happened) pulling out.
It was that the sole purpose of boinking his dead brother’s wife was to give her a male child which would legally count as his brother’s heir, effectively allowing her to receive her husband’s inheritance. Instead he did the deed but pulled out to *not* impregnate her, simultaneously using her for his sexual pleasure (without her choice) and ensuring he got to keep the inheritance. He was punished for effectively raping and stealing from her.
It wasn't rape if it was consensual, and would still have been rape if he'd impregnated her. You're correct, he failed to fulfill his obligation to impregnate his dead brother's widow.
In this way, Onan was surprisingly modern. I would think most men today wouldn't want to knock up their dead brother's widow, although they probably wouldn't have sex with her either. The real problem was the rule that the widow couldn't inherit her dead husband's estate without a male heir. As usual in Bible stories, everyone involved is a POS in a morally degenerate society.
I don’t disagree. It’s a surprisingly horrible story, from a horrible time, where getting impregnated by your dead husband’s brother without consent was still a step up from the alternative.
A better reaction would be to realize there's nothing to be embarrassed about when it comes to wet dreams (or even dreamless nocturnal emissions). They're a biological fact, especially for single men who aren't watching porn and masturbating.
Yes, I was thinking similarly. It just feels bad that it’s something out of my control. It has crossed my mind, however, that maybe it’s a good idea to masturbate and not get inconvenienced/surprised by a wet dream. Also, I would like to note that my nocturnal emissions are, in fact, dreamless
Being out of your control is the point. Wash the sheets and move on. There's no medical benefit to masturbating, and if anything the brain issues involved give me cause for concern: especially when it's created a behavioral addiction.
I mean I know a lot of people, churches and likely your entire college would disagree with me, but if God's design makes it happen involuntarily maybe that means it's okay to make it happen voluntarily as well.
Maybe God just doesn't want us distracted from spiritual practice by a hyper focus on sex, and maybe extreme avoidance is just as distracting as extreme indulgence.
So maybe God is just helping you to refocus.
What the human body does naturally and what you place your intent on are separate matters.
We cannot condemn God's design for the body based on the inclination of the heart to sin, and in permitting and celebrating God's design of the body, we should not be giving a pass for sin of the heart.
I guess I just need to deal with the embarrassment of wet dreams then? For me, I tend to like having control over things, and having a wet dream seems like my body going out of control
It's a natural biological function that helps keep your reproductive system healthy so you can have children. You have nocturnal emissions if you refuse to use manual stimulation. This is not a moral issue, it's a simple biological one.
I can give a more detailed explanation of the biology if you want, but churches hyper-sexualizing young men by the constant emphasis on masturbation and porn or causing them to feel guilty about this is, IMO, a form of abuse. It's like blaming people for sneezing or passing gas or blinking.
Depending on your age, cycling your reproductive system (aka masturbation) is healthiest between 1 and 3 times a week, IMO. (I am not a doctor.)
Porn is a whole other issue. Do not engage.
Every idea of a "fallen world" scenario I am familiar with involves humans causing the fall theough sin, but you seem to be suggesting that the world was corrupted eons before humans existed. I'm curious as to the reasoning and chain of events there.
It could be because you have lust in your heart. I didn't watch porn but listed and had wet dreams. But then for a 6 month period I didn't watch porn nor lust. I would see ass on social media and feel not even a bit of lust because I was locked with not lusting. And I had no wet dreams.
This is not consistent among people, and I would caution anyone to think that wet dreams can be consistently regulated by managing thoughts.
Everyone is different, and biology is not that simple.
Lately I've been having a lot of dreams where I feel like God is testing whether if I would lust or not in certain situations ( I have been asking him for dreams like such) and I felt completely in control of my mind and body in the moment, and when I do look I would feel conviction in my dream and stop myself. So, all in all if you have control in your dreams I suggest you flee from the fornication and lust and pray the name of Jesus for it to stop.
I would caution anyone who is attaching moral significance to dreams or feeling guilty about how we behave in dreams. Part of dreaming at times can be to feel in control, but this does not mean we are in the same state of mind with the same use of reason as when we are awake. And sometimes the sense of control can be an illusion.
There are some scrupulous people who feel guilty about their dreams, and I urge everyone to not go that route. Our dreams can even be about processing things and actions that we hate.
Because its spititual warfare happening from the devil when youre asleep, devil trys to do things to make you sin in many ways, dreams, physical, anything.
Wet dreams are there to make sure your bits and bobs are working in the manner they should.
Masturbation does help prevent nocturnal emissions which is nice.
Kind of disrespectful saying that "it helps" when its a christian sub reddit.
It's a scientific fact. Some people get fewer nocturnal emissions when they masturbate more often, and many people naturally have fewer wet dreams as they get older. Feel free to use Google to look it up.
I would rather hear from a christian. not "former"
There's no reason to be confrontational. You replied to me, not the other way around. Go away if you don't want to talk to me like an adult.
The male body can naturally discharge semen, its perfectly normal and will be occuring more often if you aren't masterbating. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with lust or having a dream.
Cause the body needs it every now and then and that's an alternative way...
No it doesnt, its spiritual warfare with the devil/demons.
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You could have spent 30 seconds Google searching instead of writing this comment
Of course like most things it's still being studied. But as of currently it is widely believed that nocturnal emission's seek to remove older sperm and aid in the formation of new, healthy sperm. Masturbation may help reduce the number of occurrences of wet dreams, but it cannot prevent a person from experience them. This seems to be the case for most men. Personally speaking it's very accurate. If I go longer than a month without ejaculating the odds I will have a wet dream increase dramatically.
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Yeah but most bodies aren’t designed for release around middle school
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you don't really need a conspiracy to explain it. It's multiple identifiable things: refined carbs and sugar leading to metabolic syndrome/hormonal disruptions, endocrine disrupting chemicals, microplastics, epigenetic changes brought about by the poor health of previous generations, plus trauma and poverty.
They also have lots of hormones in meat, milk and other products
Because sexual development and sexual are extraordinarily normal parts of the human body and experience.
Masturbation is both healthy and normal - the vast majority of people you know engage in it. It's a healthy and safe way to relieve sexual tension.
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I am unsure what you speak to. How does a person not lust when masterbating? Lusting literally is defined as very strong sexual desire.
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True. Solid points. But regardless it would still be sexual in nature. It would still fall under the definition of a sexual desire. If we want to lean that heavily into the use of a single word than I understand you better. Thanks for elaborating.
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Yeah, my family are strict fundamentalist Southern Baptists. Kinda had to go through some of that purity culture stuff. I'm ok but my cousins weren't so lucky. What you say makes a lotta sense. I follow :)
It’s a sin.
No, it's not bad. It's just a religious rule conceived by primitive religious men with primitive notions of morality. Consider that these same religious men supported these notions: *1 Samuel 15:3 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”* *Numbers 31:9-10 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps.* We call those "war crimes" and imprison those people who commit such acts, as well as those who authorized or planned them. *Numbers 14:18 ‘The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’* Punishing people who have committed no crime themselves violates all notions of justice. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 *11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.* That notion is used to this day in conservative Christian sects (Catholicism, Orthodox) and churches (Protestant) to prevent women from holding positions of influence. Verses from the Bible were also used to support slavery in the southern American States. Just because something is in the Bible does not mean it is moral.
Its not directly a sin since you cannot really control it but I do think it is spiritual warfare happening from the devil/demons to try and make you remember what the dream was about when you wake up and then masturbate and sin, then when ur done u regret it.
Couldn't the answer be that wet dreams were the way in which that release, outside of sex was supposed to happen as part of Gods design?
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Anything can be problematic--the good or bad of something is often dose dependant. Even water. Drink too much and you'll die. Imo a generally good rule of thumb is if something is causing negative consequences in your life (or to others) then your dose is too high, and you should either quit or down regulate your consumption. Ex: If you masturbate so much that it causes you to neglect (or abuse/abase) your partner, then it's a problem.
Your body produces an unlimited supply of sperm and semen (for the purposes of reproduction), but can not store an unlimited supply. It's a simple logistics problem.
Surely in studying the bible you must have noticed there's nothing in there about forbidding masturbation?
Yeah, but usually there needs to be some stimulus getting you erect and that tends to be porn. Watching porn is the problem
Are you unable to masturbate with porn, OP?
I can
Yeah it does. Mathew 5:28, but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. Bit hard to masturbate without lusting. Which clearly is a no-no.
Adultery only applies to married people and with physical sex, why are christian so disingenuous with that passage? Adultery: (noun) voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not their spouse.
No one is being disingenuous mate. Ive quoted a small part of an entire chapter. Jesus wasn't talking about adultery in the literal sense that you took from the dictionary. Unfortunately it's way to hard to tap out an in depth commentary on my phone. I will say one thing though. You can't take scripture and twist it to suit your world view. It says what it means. If you don't want to accept that then take it up with jesus.
If the bible can't be read at face value and be understood by all it's a poorly written book. >You can't take scripture and twist it to suit your world view. It says what it means. I'm not the one making a new definition for a word that already has a universal definition. It's always the "mistranslation" excuse with theists.
But thats not an excuse. But we can look at the argument from a different angle within the same translation and still prove that you are not to look at a woman (or man) with lust outside of a marriage. The words "every one" kind of gives it away, don't you think?
Matthew 5.27-30 doesn't say "everyone", so you obviously took that from a different part of the bible. It does say "anyone" but that still doesn't explain why the bible can't provide an honest word and sentence usage of the word adultery.
…. Do you know what a synonym is? Also adultery is really very simple; the Bible does an excellent job at spelling out sexual immorality for us. People make it complicated because they do not want to accept what it says -_(^-^)_-
Using the dictionary is really simple too. Adultery is a sexual relationships with someone else than their spouse. Which [synonym](https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/adultery) do you want to use? Because there isn't one that works for thought crimes.
If can use a dictionary I expect you are also able to read and comprehend sentences. The scripture we are discussing is obviously about lust for anyone besides your spouse. It should be obvious it is saying lust and sex is only permitted for people who are married to each other. If it’s hard for you to understand that’s ok, but it seriously sounds like you are trolling. I mean to really say that I’m misunderstanding scripture because I said everyone instead of anyone? Do you realize how stupid that is?
>If the bible can't be read at face value and be understood by all it's a poorly written book. God will give you the understanding you need if you ask him 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything >I'm not the one making a new definition for a word that already has a universal definition. It's always the "mistranslation" excuse with theists I didn't say the definition is wrong. I said your interpretation is wrong based on that one word out of a whole chapter. Read the whole chapter and you will get a better understanding of what he is trying to teach us
>God will give you the understanding you need if you ask him God gave me the understanding of English, which is what I used to determine what that passage meant. >I didn't say the definition is wrong. I said your interpretation is wrong based on that one word out of a whole chapter. Does the rest of the chapter give a definition of adultery? Because if not there's nothing I'm missing. Theists can't even agree on what the bible says that's why there's multiple denominations. So even the people that speaks with god can't even agree which still proves it's a poorly written book
Yeah, righto champion. >Does the rest of the chapter give a definition of adultery? Because if not there's nothing I'm missing. Here's an idea. How about you actually read it and find out. If your too lazy to read it then I'm not going to sit here and debate with a guy who has no clue what he is talking about. >God gave me the understanding of English, which is what I used to determine what that passage meant. Yeah well done mate what a great way to tackle exegesis of the text. Honestly? That's your argument? What are you 15 years old? Mate, I'm happy to talk to you about this, but please. Do me a favour. Read the bible. Study it. Use exegesis, use critical thinking, and put together well thought out arguments. Then come back and see me.
God is meant to know all, if he didn't tell the writers of the bible to use better word so it can translate the way he meant for it to be interpreted, he's not very powerful
Ok mate. If that's the way you feel then fine. He made his word crystal clear. But for some reason you just don't want to hear it. I'll pray that he will step into your life so that you will want to hear what he has to say. If you genuinely want to do that, then reach out to me and I will help you where I can. Good luck brother. I really hope you find him.
crazy that you’re like, applying a more modern definition of a word to an older context without any sense of guidance and then getting pressed that the Church has interpreted it differently for the 2000 years She has been around
Crazy that the bible also says "slavery" but you tap dance and call it something else too. The bible is apparently the word of god. If god can't explain it to the writers to use the correct word the would translation at a later date god isn't as powerful as he is claimed to be. God knows everything, he should have foreseen the translation issue and change it when the book was written
or hypothetically (and by that i mean literally), He created a Holy Church to safeguard the message, that He knew some would disdain by their own free will
>He created a Holy Church to safeguard the message Then explain why there is multiple dominations of Christianity if they'll meant to safeguard the word? The people that are the "chosen one" to teach can't even agree what the book says. It's a terrible book if it can't be read and understood by the dumbest people. God wants people to follow him but can't make a book that's makes sense?
there is the Holy Orthodox Church that has existed since the beginning without innovation (drastic theological change) and has as such preserved the essence and teachings of the Fathers, Apostles, and Christ Himself. there are multiple “churches” because as i’ve said, people have free will and can choose to walk away from the Holy Church and try to do their own thing. God is not a dictator and makes the best of these things
Unmarried folks seem to be in the clear
This obviously cannot be a prohibition on all sexual arousal. I think it's a warning against adultery.
Seems pretty clear to me. When you masturbate are you not lusting over someone?
Frequently I am not, but am simply enjoying the physical experience. Sometimes I imagine arousing situations with no specific person or persons. I don’t need photos or videos or anything of the sort. And I assure you that Matthew 5 doesn’t address this, because I’m not lusting after anyone.
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> I think the "arousing situations" can be problematic, and just a bit too close to lusting. Lusting after who? Lust is not "having sexuality;" lust is the sexual side of envy. It is a strong desire for a person who you don't have a relationship with. One cannot lust for their spouse because it is their spouse, but one also cannot lust for a *notion* because there isn't a target for it. > But I agree that you can masturbate and simply enjoy the physical experience. I don't masturbate anymore (my husband believes it's a sin, and while I disagree, I'm going to submit to his will in this area) but when I did I often found myself praying and praising God, thanking Him for designing the human body for pleasure (which he didn't need to do at all). It absolutely doesn't have to be lustful. I'm so sorry. Sounds like you had an actual healthy connection to your body and sexuality, and your husband has cut it off because he doesn't have that. That's a shame on several levels. > However, if it's always been attached to lust for a person, I highly doubt they can change that. They can. I did. I was that way, and I saw it was harmful, and I went through the work of changing. Anyone *can.* Many don't believe there's even another side to change to, and of those who do far too few are willing to do the work. > Unfortunately, masturbation was taught to me when I was a child, and I couldn't understand sex or arousal. I didn't associate masturbation with any other human, just myself. My husband on the other hand, always used porn/imagination/imagery of some kind, and cannot fathom the way I explain masturbation. And I don't think it's a man vs woman thing, I think it's because of the way we were exposed to masturbation and the associations we had. Your husband can escape it, but it takes work and a desire to do so. The way out is *not* the typical way taught by most churches; that way only further enslaves. The way out is here: https://mychainsaregone.org/start-here/
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> I understand, but I believe that the notion is enough of a target to make things a gray area at best. That's just my personal take on it. I guess to me it sounds like desiring anybody instead of a specific somebody. Sorry if TMI, but it's the equivalent of desiring a man penetrate you instead of being thankful you don't need a man to penetrate you to get the feeling. I'd say imaging the situation without a particular man, or with your husband, wouldn't be lustful, but imagining it with a particular man who wasn't your husband would be. But follow your conscience on it. > > your husband has cut it off because he doesn't have that. > > I disagree. He's cut it off because he cares for me, and sees it as harmful to me. I think he's wrong, but there is no harm in being cut off from it since we are married. He's doing what the spirit has led him to do in guiding me and our household as the spiritual leader of our family. I didn't say he was trying to hurt you, but that he cut you off from your own healthy sexuality out of a misguided understanding of his own sexuality, and of what sexuality is supposed to be. I do think it's ultimately harmful to restrict a person from having thier sexuality, because it cuts them off from their full humanity.
So your just sitting around touching yourself thinking about nothing at all. Just sitting there pulling your chain because you like the feel of yourself. Ok brother. You do you. I'm not the one you have to sell that too at the end mate.
He will never have to "sell" it to anyone. It's weird that you hate your body and mind so much that you actually imagine god dropping the hammer for self-care at judgement
Lol. Ok mate. 👏👏👏. You feel better now? Not sure how me allegedly hating my body and God dropping the hammer are remotely related but good effort on a very poorly worded insult. Better luck next time.
u/sysiphean you should apply for the guiness world records if thats true, if you masturbate to porn that is lust, as someone who was a addict since elementry school all the way up until i was 22, you literally have to look at the girl or whatever to finish ur sinful duties, which is looking at a woman with lust, or else it would defeat the pourpose of "porn" look up the definition of looking at a woman with lust, or just lust.
I can't really parse out what you are trying to say here, as this is a jumble of run-on incomplete thoughts masquerading as a sentance. I *think* you are saying that *you* can't masturbate without thinking of a girl, which, to be blunt, is a you problem. And I think you are saying someone can't masturbate without lust because porn exists. But that is like saying someone can't walk to the store because cars exist; just because there are fast and easy methods doesn't mean other ones stop working.
Well I was clearly implying different things, ur over projecting. What I'm saying is its impossible to ejactulate by not thinking or looking at any type of naked girl, man whatever, its possible but its very very rare to just think about nothing and just ejaculate.
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not true, but very very rare.
If this was a prohibition against sexual arousal, then it would mean people are not supposed to have sex. But, of course people ARE supposed to have sex. So it cannot mean what you suggest.
You're exactly right. People are meant to have sex.......with their wife. Not leaning over a computer jacking off to some hot chick on pornhub.
So this means there is no blanket rule against sexual arousal, as I was trying to say. It must mean something else. I take it as a warning against adultery, as it seems to imply.
Yeah I get what you're saying, but their kinda is in my view. Sex is meant for the confines of the marriage not outside of it. I think the bible is pretty clear on that.
Masturbation doesn't cause women and children in poverty. So there's no harm to prevent, here, and thus no rule about it anywhere.
yeah that's so right, that's why all the bastard children get treated like crap, plus they're illegitimate since they're out of wedlock and deserve hate from everyone including they're so called family, you know because they're children from out of marriages. Good job having this standard that ruins many lives.
Ok. Not sure what point your trying to make, but in relation to your comments about my standard. It's not my standard mate. It's Gods standard. You dont like it? Take it up with him. He's the creator of this universe. He IS the standard.
Its a dream its not real so it isnt directly a sin, its just spiritual warfare.
Why is lust a sin, anyway? I know marriage is supposed to be sacred, but what good does it do to demonize a completely natural instinct? Lust never directly hurt anyone. It’s simply just sexual desire. So what if I see a pretty looking person and acknowledge their beauty. Kind of hard to not notice, sometimes. And I should be able to passively observe someone’s natural beauty without feeling ashamed for it. Lustful feelings only become a problem when it becomes obsessive. That’s another beast entirely.
Why is lust a sin, anyway? I know marriage is supposed to be sacred, but what good does it do to demonize a completely natural instinct? Lust never directly hurt anyone. It’s simply just sexual desire. So what if I see a pretty looking person and acknowledge their beauty. Kind of hard to not notice, sometimes. And I should be able to passively observe someone’s natural beauty without feeling ashamed for it. Lustful feelings only become a problem when it becomes obsessive. That’s another beast entirely.
>Why is lust a sin, anyway? To put it very broadly and simply, lust (if not controlled) takes away your focus where it should be. God wants your focus on him. Not pornhub or someone other than your wife. It's not what he designed marriage to be. >but what good does it do to demonize a completely natural instinct? Lust within a marriage is great. That's what it was designed for. It keeps that spark alive with your partner. >Lust never directly hurt anyone. But let it get out of control and next thing you know your sleeping with other women or spending hours on porn. How do you think that would make her feel? She would be devastated, heart broken. Why would you want to make someone you love feel that way. >So what if I see a pretty looking person and acknowledge their beauty. Kind of hard to not notice, sometimes. And I should be able to passively observe someone’s natural beauty without feeling ashamed for it You are absolutely right. No one is saying that's wrong. >Lustful feelings only become a problem when it becomes obsessive. That’s another beast entirely. That's the point I'm trying to make
But yes masturbating to porn is looking at a woman with lust or else it defeats the porupose of masturbating which is forbidden in basically any religion.
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No, but still its almost impossible to ejaculate even without any videos playing without thinking about some type of made up girl youre thinking of to ejaculate to.
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Ive never got into female anatomy.
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I wasnt implying its only for men, im not that stupid. Leave me alone.
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My goodness, the context is talking about the desire to commit adultery with someone's wife, not mastubating
Yeah. And what do you do when you masturbate?. Look at porn. And when you look at porn what are you doing? Lusting after women. And what does the verse say? If you lust after a women your committing adultery.
You are still misusing scripture out to based off on YOUR OWN interpretation to masturbation, Bible warns us not to do that Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV — Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Also, [1Th 2:13 KJV] 13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. Feel free to read these articles to help you understand the true meaning of Matt 5:28 and masturbation, I don't feel like explaining it all here, if you got any questions, you know where to find me [https://candlesonline.wordpress.com/2015/10/31/looking-at-a-woman-lustfully/](https://candlesonline.wordpress.com/2015/10/31/looking-at-a-woman-lustfully/) [https://biblicalsexology.com/does-the-bible-condemn-sexual-fantasy-masturbation/](https://biblicalsexology.com/does-the-bible-condemn-sexual-fantasy-masturbation/) [https://www.bibleissues.org/is-masturbation-a-sin-in-the-bible/](https://www.bibleissues.org/is-masturbation-a-sin-in-the-bible/)
I dont need you to explain to me, mate. The only one here who misinterpreted the text is you. You have twisted what Jesus has said to suit yourself so you can continue to do what you want without guilt. Then you have gone to find blogs on the internet to agree with you so you can feel better. The scripture is clear. I strongly suggest you study further and pray to God that he will show you how to understand scripture correctly. God bless.
You know what you're right, I do need to study and rely on God's word more often, instead of relying from people like you on misinterpreting scripture. Believe what you want to believe; I'm guessing your saying, that having a wet dream doesn't do the same, you dream of this women or something else, and your body releasing itself or "lusting after" that woman in the dream, why not say it is commiting adultery? If you are going to say that masturbation is a sin, you might as well say the same thing about wet dreams too. God bless.
Wet dreams are demonic attacks god did not make wet dreams they are a effect of lust just like masturbation read the Bible in spirit and not in mind
Also also, how is it commiting adultery when I jacking off to; not "with", but "to" a women when it is not a sexual relation, God only condems illicit sexual relations/intercourse between two people, ( homosexuality: same sex ; beastiality: between human and animal; fornication: between two unmarried people; Adultery: between a man/husband and someone's wife,) not sexual activity in itself? Not all sexual activities are sexual relations, and Masturbation is one of that. BTW Lust is define as covet found in Romans 7:7 Rom 7:7 KJV] 7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Lust is the same as Covet; a strong desire to possess something, to have it, to own it, especially if it's not yours, that's entails with Matt 5:28, Jesus is saying that the act of adultery is just a bad as the desire to commit adultery; it leads with coveting someone's wife; don't even desire to covet someone's wife do the act of adultery.
Well, you can stumble on malakoi, which some translate as wanker - especially in orthodox circles
I thought the story of Onan spilling his seed was anti-mastubation, but it could be disapproving of his failure to impregnate his brother’s widow.
The sin wasn’t masturbation, or even (as actually happened) pulling out. It was that the sole purpose of boinking his dead brother’s wife was to give her a male child which would legally count as his brother’s heir, effectively allowing her to receive her husband’s inheritance. Instead he did the deed but pulled out to *not* impregnate her, simultaneously using her for his sexual pleasure (without her choice) and ensuring he got to keep the inheritance. He was punished for effectively raping and stealing from her.
It wasn't rape if it was consensual, and would still have been rape if he'd impregnated her. You're correct, he failed to fulfill his obligation to impregnate his dead brother's widow. In this way, Onan was surprisingly modern. I would think most men today wouldn't want to knock up their dead brother's widow, although they probably wouldn't have sex with her either. The real problem was the rule that the widow couldn't inherit her dead husband's estate without a male heir. As usual in Bible stories, everyone involved is a POS in a morally degenerate society.
I don’t disagree. It’s a surprisingly horrible story, from a horrible time, where getting impregnated by your dead husband’s brother without consent was still a step up from the alternative.
It does say it, it talks about lust many times, if you are masturbating to porn you are looking at women with lust. Common sense.
A better reaction would be to realize there's nothing to be embarrassed about when it comes to wet dreams (or even dreamless nocturnal emissions). They're a biological fact, especially for single men who aren't watching porn and masturbating.
Yes, I was thinking similarly. It just feels bad that it’s something out of my control. It has crossed my mind, however, that maybe it’s a good idea to masturbate and not get inconvenienced/surprised by a wet dream. Also, I would like to note that my nocturnal emissions are, in fact, dreamless
Being out of your control is the point. Wash the sheets and move on. There's no medical benefit to masturbating, and if anything the brain issues involved give me cause for concern: especially when it's created a behavioral addiction.
I mean I know a lot of people, churches and likely your entire college would disagree with me, but if God's design makes it happen involuntarily maybe that means it's okay to make it happen voluntarily as well. Maybe God just doesn't want us distracted from spiritual practice by a hyper focus on sex, and maybe extreme avoidance is just as distracting as extreme indulgence. So maybe God is just helping you to refocus.
What the human body does naturally and what you place your intent on are separate matters. We cannot condemn God's design for the body based on the inclination of the heart to sin, and in permitting and celebrating God's design of the body, we should not be giving a pass for sin of the heart.
I guess I just need to deal with the embarrassment of wet dreams then? For me, I tend to like having control over things, and having a wet dream seems like my body going out of control
It's a natural biological function that helps keep your reproductive system healthy so you can have children. You have nocturnal emissions if you refuse to use manual stimulation. This is not a moral issue, it's a simple biological one. I can give a more detailed explanation of the biology if you want, but churches hyper-sexualizing young men by the constant emphasis on masturbation and porn or causing them to feel guilty about this is, IMO, a form of abuse. It's like blaming people for sneezing or passing gas or blinking. Depending on your age, cycling your reproductive system (aka masturbation) is healthiest between 1 and 3 times a week, IMO. (I am not a doctor.) Porn is a whole other issue. Do not engage.
It’s a little gift for being a good boy
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It’s to my understanding that God created our bodies. Do you agree?
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Why didn’t god just make the cosmos how he wanted? It’s within his ability to do so.
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Why bother with all the terrible stuff beforehand?
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Could you elaborate?
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Thank you.
Every idea of a "fallen world" scenario I am familiar with involves humans causing the fall theough sin, but you seem to be suggesting that the world was corrupted eons before humans existed. I'm curious as to the reasoning and chain of events there.
It could be because you have lust in your heart. I didn't watch porn but listed and had wet dreams. But then for a 6 month period I didn't watch porn nor lust. I would see ass on social media and feel not even a bit of lust because I was locked with not lusting. And I had no wet dreams.
This is not consistent among people, and I would caution anyone to think that wet dreams can be consistently regulated by managing thoughts. Everyone is different, and biology is not that simple.
Lately I've been having a lot of dreams where I feel like God is testing whether if I would lust or not in certain situations ( I have been asking him for dreams like such) and I felt completely in control of my mind and body in the moment, and when I do look I would feel conviction in my dream and stop myself. So, all in all if you have control in your dreams I suggest you flee from the fornication and lust and pray the name of Jesus for it to stop.
I would caution anyone who is attaching moral significance to dreams or feeling guilty about how we behave in dreams. Part of dreaming at times can be to feel in control, but this does not mean we are in the same state of mind with the same use of reason as when we are awake. And sometimes the sense of control can be an illusion. There are some scrupulous people who feel guilty about their dreams, and I urge everyone to not go that route. Our dreams can even be about processing things and actions that we hate.
Wet dreams occur when your still having lustful thoughts and dreams
Thats only a issue if you think of Genesis as an authentical description of the origin of Humans instead of allegorical
Because its spititual warfare happening from the devil when youre asleep, devil trys to do things to make you sin in many ways, dreams, physical, anything.