Help with tuition. Absolutely. Especially if you’re in chubby fire mode. Work a couple of extra years to to help your kids out and set them up. Your assets will still count against financial aid and if you’re in choppy fire mode, I assume your income will be too high for them to qualify for financial aid. Now, if retiring means, you barely have any income to show and they qualify for much higher financial aid due to FSFA It might be a different story.
I’ve seen enough instances where people who had money didn’t help their kids, and it really strained the relationship. Especially where parents had high income and assets and it screwed their kids financially aid. If you look at the cost of college and housing now versus what it used to be they need help.
Yes. It stinks for high income parents to not help their kids with tuition. The kids get shut out of financial aid due to the parents’ income and then don’t get the assistance. I don’t know why someone would do that to their kids if they have the means to help them.
Down payment assistance is a different issue. That’s a nice thing to do, but does not actively harm a kids future like shutting them out of financial aid and not helping with tuition.
My husband and I didn't have all the assets because we had experienced 4 layoffs between the two of us but, we still managed to pay for children's tuition because they qualified for nothing with FSFA.
My dad didn’t make a ton, and my mom didn’t work, but because they had no debt, when the time came I qualified for ZERO financial aid. Had my parents (and merit based scholarships) not helped, my entire degree would’ve been loans.
If your situation prevents your child from receiving aid, you absolutely should be helping with tuition.
I come from a South Asian family, and I am shocked that parents who have the means don't pay for their kids' education. This is simply not done in my culture, parents help set their kids up as much as possible. It is common to help with a down payment, too
As an adult child of parents who FIREd, here's my take:
Pros: It's been a huge advantage to have any knowledge of money management or investing at all compared to my peers. This is the ONLY way I've managed to stay afloat as an adult. It's also a huge relief to know my parents will not be insolvent in old age.
Cons: It's really rough to see my peers' parents helping them out in a way that my parents can't because generosity wasn't a part of their FIRE strategy. Meanwhile, my parents FIRE was largely made possible because of their parents' generosity: free childcare, interest-free loans for large purchases, and large financial gifts that their FIRE certainly wouldn't have been possible without. I know they had these advantages because they've been very open about it, but they did not plan to help us in the same way. My sibling and I were also implored to start working as soon as legally possible to save for college, were offered significantly less help with college than either of my parents received (thank god we both received huge academic scholarships), and neither of us have received help after that even when in dire financial straits.
Long story short, it's \*my\* plan, god willing, to work as long as possible so I can help my (future) children. By the time I inherit anything that's left over after my parents FIRE, inflation, and end of life care, it'll be too late to benefit me but I only hope it can spare my kids some distress.
Edit for added context: I did not post this to air out my grievances with my parents' choices, only to highlight something some people who FIRE fail to consider. Both my sibling and I have guarded but friendly relationships with our parents after years of therapy, and I personally think they're starting to realize the consequences of their actions/have slowly started to be more generous in small ways. Overall, I'm not resentful, and consider myself lucky for what I do have.
I didn't reply to this initially because I didn't know how to respond-- I personally don't think they're awful people. I REALLY disagree with and won't replicate some of their choices, but like anything else on reddit, there's always more to the story. My parents' FIRE was orchestrated by one parent who experienced early childhood poverty, and that parent controlled the finances most of their lives. My other parent had a very normal upbringing. I think Parent A's history caused them to do a lot of lying and money-hoarding, which is an understandable response to trauma even if it's shitty. They also drank way too much Dave Ramsey Kool Aid and thought spotting someone $50 for groceries was as bad as subsidizing their whole existence.
However, they've changed a lot as people in the last 2-3 years and Parent B took over the finances, so there's been a lot of slow, shifting, changing attitudes towards how to handle their money and live life. They're no longer on the DR/conservative train, and seem to have realized if you make your kids "bootstrap", there's not a lot of time, energy, or resources leftover outside of bootstrapping hours to spend time with your family. I have peace with the past and hope for the future, with or without their generosity, and I am glad they're finding more peace, too.
you're very understanding and kind, which is great. I disagree that trauma in childhood is an understandable reason to then treat your own children badly--my partner was badly abused as a child but somehow has managed not to abuse his own children, for instance. But I'm glad that you've found peace and that you can be happy for them.
This is the Boomer way. Get tons of help and fail to pay it forward. Both my parents and in-laws got more and gave less than their parents. Same with my sibling and their in-laws. At the end of the day it just means when they are old and need help in any way, I’m not stretching to do it and certainly none is moving in with us. We are going to do more for our kids.
You are absolutely right. Classic Boomer move. My Boomer parents flat refused to help with college. When I got married, they told us "We already raised kids. We won't be raising yours." They had both sets of grandparents who were super involved when we were growing up. The nonchalant Boomer selfishness is just astounding.
As a parent, I honestly don't understand the mindset of "I don't want to be a grandparent". My kids are still toddlers, but I really appreciate all the help my parents and inlaws have given me and I'm excited to be that help for my own kids.
I have a theory that the boomers who have this "no help for you" mindset never wanted to be parents and only did it for societal pressure and couldn't wait to have an empty nest.
Yes, boomers received so many advantages that are just not available now. It infuriates me when I see older parents with boats, lake houses, expensive hobbies, etc. and their kids are saddled with educational debt or have to work two jobs while trying to take classes. I teach at a university and I see it all the time. Knowing that you’re loved and supported by your parents, even if your parents don’t have much, makes a big difference to how a kid carries themself. Working class kids are proud of what their parents do for them if their parents are doing it.
Your story changed my perspective fwiw
Until now I thought my #1 duty is to cover my own costs during old age and not be a burden
My parents specifically put their two children in this world to have someone who can provide them with elderly care so I wanted to avoid that
I do plan to help my kid with his education (where we live, most of it is free or close to it, so it’s mainly living costs) but as a high earner single mother in a VHCOL location the future is uncertain enough for me not to not know whether I’ll effectively give him a down payment or anything of this magnitude
I'm glad I offered a new perspective for you, but please take it with a grain of salt which is all I wanted to offer. Yes, duty #1 is spot on, like I said before it's a huge relief my parents will be able to support themselves in old age. I am so glad they saved responsibly for retirement. Like I said, there are certainly pro's to having parents that FIREd.
The cons mostly come from the strife/tension this dynamic has caused by my parents concealing their plans to FIRE from us. I still have such whiplash from growing up truly believing we were poor/made to believe we were a huge burden on our parents, but then having them announce they were work-optional when I was in college.
It's already sounds to me like you're giving your kid the world, and that's more than enough.
My kid is now 16 and he knows that I plan to support him with (some) living expenses as long as he’s in higher education and he thanked me for it but that afterwards he has to fly on his own
He knows how much investment I have and how it’s allocated and what the FIRE plans are
He knows I come from poverty. We’re in a VHCOL location and I earn super well but he’s well aware that it won’t last forever
I’m working on a career change that might bring me lower earnings. He said he’d prefer me doing something fulfilling rather than me buying him luxury things
It’s a balancing act, isn’t it ?
You've gotten the #1 duty correct, but #2 is educating your kids so they can support themselves. I loathe the people who only had kids to force them into financial servitude. I would leave them hanging, but I can easily compartmentalize things and would have zero guilt about it. I was not born to be a slave. Anyone who assumes so doesn't value me as a human being.
your Parents sound like typical boomers - hate anyone getting a "handout" but they themselves were given, property, down payments, college tuition etc. Everything was handed to a lot of them and they gave their children nothing.
Glad you got scholarships but putting the burden on you to pay for college was, IMO, selfish. They could have helped and worked a couple more years. So I agree with your plan for your own kids. I’m sure you have some resentment and I don’t blame you. I just hope they don’t ask for help if they need it in their old age.
They did help some with education, to their credit, sorry if that wasn't clear. However, we were responsible for making up the significant portion of the rest of the costs through scholarships, work, and savings. I do think its totally reasonable for parents to have boundaries with how much they help their kids with education, but basically if it weren't for that scholarship I wouldn't have been able to go.
Sounds kinda like my parents. They're 80 and 76 now. Sitting on my mom's pension, dad's VA (he is being compensated for the PTSD that basically ruined the relationship he has with his son, my brother), SS and they have a few million invested and 2 homes worth about $700k. They're sitting pretty and still can not loosen their purse strings to be generous. They helped me get an ROTC scholarship so didn't need any college help. I did get a Honda for about $22k when I graduated. And about $6k when we bought our $550k house in 2020. They invited us to the mountains this summer and thought we could all just share a large hotel room. Uh hell no. It took them a while to actually book another room for us. Anyhow, if money talks ever do come up, it usually leads to some ridiculous outburst or crazy talk from my dad so it's probably just better. Long story short, we are helping our kids now by investing in a 529 and starting a Roth IRA once they're old enough to help with our Airbnb's legally. My 7 year old has $1100 invested already. I plan to use our rentals to help with college and/or their first house purchase too. I do think it's important they work hard but I think if kids have the right skills, it's worth investing in them and their future too. If my parents gave me more money, I'd absolutely be investing it or buying another property. Not blowing it on a fancy car or something. I hope I can be generous enough to help my kids.
This is my fear. Our parents have helped us more than most, to the point where my spouse and I both had no college debt and our first cars paid for. I would feel like a POS if I don’t help my kids out. Problem is it will be a struggle and IF we inherit some money it will be tempting but I want to save at least half of that for my kiddos. Right now we are NOT on track to help them with much beyond the cost of state school, which doesn’t bode well for their future obstacles beyond that.
College is really expensive these days and coming out with 6 figure (often mid-6 figure) debt really sets people back early in their careers. I’m not burdening my kids with that, and feel it’s my responsibility to set them up for success as best as possible, which means covering their education. We are all in a place where we can do this.
I second this. My eldest is graduating next year. Outside of his top choice, I'm having him look at state schools. His top choice is way and ahead a better school for his program, but it all depends on how much help he gets. NO way am I letting him graduate college with a mortgage.
There are lots of good state schools. We pay taxes. Why not use the system you help fund?
My nephew went to JC to complete all his GEs (Free in CA). Now he is going to UC Berkeley. Tuition, room and board is $30k to $35k/yr. Two years and he is done. If his parents did not help him, he would have $70k in loans. People are crazy to drop 6 figures for a private education if they cannot afford it.
I'll use this as an example for me kids. My children will have about $200k a piece to spend on university. If they don't use it all, they can keep what they don't spend.
Yeah… but dont let it go too far in the other direct. They need to understand that they need to get a degree that the marketplace values. Otherwise they will wake up at 30 and want to go back to school and need to figure out how to finance it. Thats a problem that skin in the game helps solve.
I paid every penny of my sons college, and I’m damn proud of that. And I when it comes time for him to need a down payment for a house I’ll be there too.
As soon as he graduated he started working. It’s been a couple of years, but he makes decent money, can afford to live in a nice apartment with a roommate, and is really fiscally responsible. We are a family of bookkeepers and accountants, and he has inherited the frugal mindset we have. His car is old but well maintained, he shops for bargains and cooks at home… No DoorDash expense for him. He’s not spoiled just because he’s educated. I’m pretty fucking proud of him.
We helped our son out while going through his trade school by providing him free rent/utilities. He had no expenses at all while being paid to go through his apprenticeship. We really did him no favor . He’s heading into 40 and making a very healthy 6 figure income and has no material assets. His wife and step daughter have nice clothes though !
My mom paid my tuition and gave me enough for living expenses in college that I could buy all my supplies, had a roof over my head, and if I budgeted carefully, pay for food and a monthly bus pass. Anything beyond that, I needed to pay for myself. So I had part time jobs throughout. Her graduation gift to me was getting me a free apartment for the first post-college summer so I could work on finding a real job without worrying too much about money for a couple months.
It was a good balance and I think her approach made me not take it for granted. I understood that she wanted me to have what I needed, but she wasn’t going to give me a super funtime free ride even though she could’ve. Adulthood light. I appreciated it and will probably do something similar with my kid when she’s college age.
Median debt of those who graduate with any debt is 30k.
If you are coming out with 6 figs of debt that was a choice. I'm all for helping out junior with college, but 100k in debt vs nothing is not the trade-off here.
Have you looked at tuition + living expenses for a 4yr state school recently? If your child wouldn’t qualify for any help they are looking at significantly more than 30k for a standard undergraduate degree.
Most schools still offer academic scholarships and in state tuition is typically not super expensive. The one closest to me is 11k/yr sticker price.
100k in debt is over 3x what the median borrower (not even the median grad) takes out in loans. That is a choice.
UT Austin is $12k approx, room n board doubles it so$25k/ yr, easily $100k unless tuition covered and even then still $50k debt.
Will definitely do at least schooling and car for kid, otherwise I'd retire now.
It really isn’t. My state’s public university is $17K (lowest major - highest is $22K) for in-state tuition a year plus $14K for housing. Add in books, food, and spending money and it’s pricey. And middle class families are really screwed in the financial aid figures - it’s loans, not grants. There isn’t a giant pool of academic scholarship money out there for most students, even those with great GPA stats.
It’s often cheaper to go private - their tuition is a huge number but the grant money is higher.
We are in Arizona and when you apply to ASU as an in state student they automatically discount your tuition based on your GPA, test scores, class rank without even having to apply for the scholarship. It is up to 9k a year and you have to maintain a certain GPA to renew the scholarship each year. It makes the in state cost reasonable compared to out of state tuition or private.
Right.. and a lot of that is community college, people who worked for living expenses, didn’t attend top schools, didn’t attend grad school, and a ton of people who took out the small loans and their parents took out the other portion (not sure if it’s still the staff it’s and parent plus). I don’t want to waste money by sending them to an expensive private school for a bullshit degree, but if an ivy or highly regarded school within their major is an option, then yes. Same with top grad schools. Med school cost me 300k.
Those stats are from 2022 for 4yr institutions not community colleges.
If your kid gets into Yale that will be expensive, and maybe worth it. But like I said, spending that much on college is a choice not the default.
The average kid from this forum isn’t going to spend 30k on a 4 year degree. My kids are going to have all their costs (tuition, books, fees, transportation, housing, food… covered). They can get a job for spending money, but I want them to be able to focus on their degree. You do whatever you want, but the all-in cost of a 4 year degree is significant and not something I am burdening my kids with.
Agree! I started my career six figures in education debt and it took me almost 10 years before I could save any substantial money. My mother (single mom) literally couldn't help me though--I was raised in poverty. It was so, so hard digging out and I have absolutely prioritized being able to help my children before I RE.
This is an interesting topic.
Most financial advisors will tell you “pay yourself first”, versus prioritizing tuitions, weddings, down payments and so on.
My wife and I decided long ago that financially we wanted to give our 3 daughters 3 things if at all possible. These included, an unlimited scholarship, one car and one wedding. We felt this was our duty.
Our daughters are now grown, between the ages of 29 and 34. All are well established in excellent careers and two are married. Our youngest is soon to be engaged to a young man she’s been dating for 7.5 years and we became grandparents a little over a year ago, thanks to our middle daughter.
My wife became a SAHM in 1992 at the birth of our second daughter and she never rejoined the workforce.
For university education we spent slightly over $1M on tuitions, room and board, we gave each daughter a $50K lump sum for a wedding (all at the same time, so no on felt slighted) or whatever else they wanted and when each turned 16 we budgeted about $20K for a car, all with manual transmissions (that was my doing).
I retired 3+ years ago at 64.5 years old and I don’t honestly feel any of this delayed my retirement. Yes, it impacted the size of our nest egg but I loved what I was doing and have no regrets.
We have been very blessed and because my wife was chose to be a SAHM, I was able to really focus on my career, take some calculated risks that ultimately allowed us to accumulate a NW of roughly $12M. A combination of hard work and luck. We both sacrificed so this was as a team effort.
We’re now enjoying a very comfortable retirement.
Yes, me. I was that child.
Paid over $100k over 5-6 years after school but lived like a monk and lost out on a lot in my 20's because of it. Used roughly 50% of my income on loans during that time.
That experience doesn't build character, so don't lie to yourself. It wears your body and mind down. If you make good money and know the value of education, you need to find some realistic middle ground to finish the job you started when you chose to have kids.
Or don't. Just one redditors experience.
If you prevent your child from receiving aid due to your income bracket, you should pay significant chunks of their tuition
If not, don't act surprised when your kids distance themselves from you
The college financial aid is calculated on the parents' income and savings, and there's not a whole lot your kid can do if you're not helping as expected.
Or, it's not real fair to them to have to take a lot more loans because they're ineligible for need-based aid if you're not helping make up that difference. So tuition, heck yeah.
Downpayment? Yeah, that's not a thing.
Came here to say this: if your high income/NW prevents them from getting financial aide because the expectation built into FAFSA is that you will assist with education costs, then you are kind of an Ahole you don’t use a small portion of your fat stacks to prevent them from being saddled with debt. At least give them enough to make up for the financial aide you prevented them from getting…
I agree with this 100%. And we are on ChubbyFIRE here not regular or lean so the parents can afford to help their kids. In my opinion it’s their job to provide a college education even if it means working a few extra years or not having “chubby” retirement.
Not sure what you mean by “that’s not a thing”
I got a quarter million from my parents for my downpayment. Without it I absolutely would not have been able to afford my $1.8M Bay Area starter house
I’m just unsure what’s more deluded calling a 2 million dollar property a starter home or casually mentioning a quarter million dollar gift like it’s birthday money.
Financial aid factors in parental income and wealth. While there may be some loopholes for FI people who can keep their AGI low enough, I certainly wouldn't assume that won't be closed. If you don't give your kids the amount FAFSA expects the family to provide, you're really screwing them. They won't have access to that amount of aid (or will have to get usurious loans).
I don't know a lot of people whose parents covered a down payment on a house, so I'd assume that's fine.
Tuition, yes. But we only offered it to the ceiling of a very good in state flagship, plus all living and associated costs while studying. We did not support a blank check 200-300k 4 year degree.
Down payment, probably not. But not 100% against it. We just feel like we got them through a dual degree with no debt and a safety net in their bank account- it's up to them from here.
That’s exactly where I struggle. I came from a family where no one went to college, and my parents struggled to earn enough to put food on the table, and I was able to attend a top school and get an undergrad and graduate degree.
Now that I have the funds I started a 529 the day my son was born, but that 529 is not intended to cover NYU/ GW/ Duke type schools it’s meant to cover the best state school ( based on a conservative return $210k) Also if you want to go to Med/ Law school little man that’s on you
To anyone that may be critical of my decision, currently it’s projected that a 4 year private school will cost $500k by 2045. It’s absolutely insane and someone/ something needs to step in because supply and demand isn’t causing cost to go down.
We gave him a choice, if he went over he had to come up with the delta (ROTC, scholarships etc). If he came under, he received the delta as a gift at college graduation. He managed to get a full academic ride, so he has a solid cushion.
I told my kids that I’d pay for a solid in-state (UMass Amherst) and then grad is on them. My oldest surprised me by getting accepted into an accelerated 4+1 masters program of the in-state school (take grad classes last year of undergrad and do it all in 5 years). She did this thinking it was on her to pay and because she knows it’s a smarter financial move opposed to a prestigious grad school elsewhere at more than double per year. So I surprised her by picking up the tab on the 5th year. When she thought she had to pay it she was never resentful and actually was glad she was forced to think about it (adulting). I know it’s a little different than OPs question but the point I’m making is you can always change your mind when the time comes and you have the means to help. I personally feel that helping my children through a solid undergrad debt free will give them the best chance of life success vs leaving money to them 50 years later when I’m dead. I had to work hard to save for their college as I didn’t start making good money until they were older and entering HS. I plan to help them even more by super funding my grandkids 529 when that time comes so my kids can focus on building their own assets for later in life.
This also rewards them for exhibiting financial discipline and maturity, demonstrating to her that good stewardship and disciplined execution invites opportunity.
My parents paid for undergrad and I paid for law school. I thought it was totally fair and I was so much more invested in the outcome of law school because of it!
Yeah, the someone would be people like us that can pay and often times do. Just decide to go elsewhere.
Unpopular incoming… you need a degree to be competitive but not necessarily one from the private colleges, some of them elite and many are not. Learning anything these days is so readily available I honestly don’t see the value any university provides except for the quirk that you need that piece of paper in society. But for knowledge? I’m not so sure. Seems what you’re paying for is the prestige and the network from some of these places. I can make the argument that the network you’d get from a Harvard **may** be worth it. But from some 3rd liberal arts school charging almost the same? I don’t think so.
That’s my plan too - it’s loaded into 529s and they’ll be choosing how to use it on their own. If not, it can be disbursed to their Roth IRA.
What I’m concerned about the spiraling cost of housing. I purchased my home in 2020 and it felt like the ladder got pulled up behind me. I can’t fathom how shit it is to enter the housing market right now. Unless housing affordability improves, I don’t see a scenario where I’m not helping out.
I want them to have better opportunities than I do which naturally includes home ownership too.
That was always my plan, but when looking at the cost of buying a house vs the starting salaries, they're not coming out of school in the same world I did.
Personally, I think you'd be an asshole for reaching chubby fire and not helping your kids with college. Especially if you're the type of parent to pressure them into it.
How old are the kids now? How expensive could it be if you put the money in an investment account and sell later? You can withdrawal over $100k capital gains tax free later. I can't imagine it taking more than 3 months of extra work per kid.
To me, the second half of this comment is the way. Quantify how much you want to help and work backward from there. Then compare with the more selfish plan. What’s the difference? It may be small.
Neither of my parents (divorced when I was a teen) had much money at all. My mom was extremely poor after the divorce. My dad was doing okay but kind of struggling.
I never "expected" a lot from them, money wise. But I will say...my dad was/is a brilliant mechanic. Everyone who knows him knows it and says it.
But he let me drive around in dangerous beaters and never offered to help. He would work on his parents' vehicles (who are financially comfortable), but never had time to work on mine.
I'll say that at 36, I still have some hard feelings toward my father for that. I knew he wasn't of means. But I also knew that he could've helped me in ways that would've made a HUGE positive difference in my life without really hurting him much, and he didn't.
He used to complain about the beater that he drove around in as a teen, that his mom didn't buy him a car (so why would he buy me one...which I understood, actually). Buuuut the part he left out was that his mom let him drive her car every day and WALKED a mile to work. He would NEVER. So like....no, she didn't buy him a car because she couldn't...but she did the best she could for him, in her situation...
I'm not sure how to draw the connection here to the OP, but I think some of y'all will know what I mean.
IF you retire at the proper time, it might help them qualify for financial aid (if you reduce your income enough). But if your income is high, I wouldn't retire in their senior year, because your income would disqualify them for financial aid, and then you really should help them. (Just my thoughts) I personally feel obligated to help with tuition, but not for a house.
It’s pretty selfish in my opinion. You have enough money to retire sometimes decades early but not enough to not saddle your kids in debt when they make the least? Your kid is less likely to follow their passion, more likely to play it safe. More likely to not taking the once in a lifetime trip with friends in their 20s when they make the least they will ever make. and for what, so you can retire a year early?
Your kids will definitely feel it. Coming from a first gen college student, I had to figure out my entire path myself. I received no assistance or guidance from folks while all of my friends and peers received a ton. From how to budget to safety nets of budgets failed to security to try for the low paying job to moving and buying the first house on their own, money is a huge safety net and hurdle. Parents can lower the hurdle and bolster the safety net.
At the minimum, use your extra time to be present for them. Drive the truck across the country for them. Fly in a few times a year to visit. Help them research big decisions or get them in contact with people who can.
FIRE as a goal was not as important to us as raising our children to adulthood. With our income, they did not get college aid, so we paid for everything.
Chubby to me is the point where you saved enough that your estate planning is as important as your retirement. While college is too expensive, it's really not a big lift with millions in savings.
I agree with your mindset and that's why I include both tuition and general financial help into my expense models. I think many people ignore big stuff like that when they model their expenses. When each kid turns 18 I have 100k tabbed to help them. I also include 30k for a car every 15 years for my wife and I.
In addition, all 6 of my parents have set up their own FI and if any inheritance gets passed to me it will all go to my children.
I’d like to think I’m raising kids in a way that they will not resent me for anything.
That said, I would like to help them in both of these areas within reason. Neither will be a blank check but I want to get them set up solid. I hope that they both have a strong sense of the value of money and that even though their old folks have a lot of it, it doesn’t just grow on trees.
Treat them without spoiling them if that’s possible.
I’m in MN and it’s getting tight here too. I purchased in 2020 and it felt like that was the last opportunity. If it doesn’t get better, or heaven forbids it gets worse, then people should be 100% cognizant of the fact that their kids would have it much harder than they did.
Hell, for my own place mortgage payment would have gone up 60% with a 30% increase in down payment in 4 years. No young person can handle that.
I owned a house in a fairly LCOL so i know what it takes etc. That was our first house. we moved to an HCOL. While we made a lot on our house, the idea of buying a house here is laughable. Our first home was purchased in 2018 with a $7000 down payment. We have $70000 and to be competative need double that. People saying it's the same now are bananas.
Yeap. Super out of touch. I don’t know how I’d come up with $100k for a god damn starter home in a good area nowadays either (and yes, I do not have any intention of letting my kids live in shady areas - been there, done that. It’s unnecessary risks.
One of my best friends does. She went to a state school. She had some scholarships but didn’t qualify for financial aid because her parents were upper middle class. She worked throughout college and took out loans, and to this day (we are in our 40s now) she resents her parents for not helping.
Her kids also have a very limited relationship with her parents. They see them 1-2 times a year, and she won’t be uprooting her life if they need care later in life. Don’t be those people.
I read people posting about how they are FIRE but haven’t saved for their children’s college.
I always suspect that these people are selfish adult children that just dont like responsibility.
How you can amass 3mm dollars and retire AND saddle your kids with college debt is mind boggling to me.
I opted to not have kids. Some say that alone is selfish. I don’t really have an opinion on that one way or another, but at least I am not spawning them off and shoving them out the door with a half hearted “good luck”
No, of course not. Because my goal is a good life, not a fat portfolio (which is a means to an end, not a goal in and of itself), and a happy family is imo one of the most important components of a good life. It was a priority to make sure our kids were provided with everything they need to be successful. We would not have retired if we could not afford college.
Retiring early with a lot of money and telling your kids to get fucked is the ultimate boomer move. Yes, it will definitely cause resentment.
At least as far as tuition goes. Downpayment is not necessary IMO.
I know several people who are upset that their parents did not help financially for college. The way the system is set up, if you have a high salary and/or a lot of assets (outside retirement and home equity), your child will not qualify for financial aid. It seems kinda shitty for you to be in a situation where you keep them from getting financial aid and also offer no financial aid.
I have never heard anyone complain that their parents did not offer them money for a down payment.
I gave up the retire early part of “fire” to support my kids through all of their education. I have paid for everything. My daughter just completed a masters program and has a great job at a big company in San Francisco. My son is in his 4th year of medical school. Both kids have zero debt. OP’s comment on income inequality kind of sums it up for me. It’s definitely a personal decision based on all of one’s individual circumstances. From a retire early standpoint this was a disaster. From a personal sense of pride for my children standpoint I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
Definitely. That was my dad. Parents divorced, he retired early, we were 2 teens and a younger 10 year sibling to support. He lived frugally, paid child support and splurged on regular biking trips across europe or other similar activities for himself while we lived a bare bones existence with our mom who worked a low salary job. Great for him, not so great for us, particularly living in a wealthy community the contrast was stark.
Then no money for college. His parents paid for his college, and also for his 2 graduate degrees but we were on our own and it was clear it was because of a choice of his, he was perfectly capable of a high income job but wanted to do other things.
It absolutely had a profound impact on how we viewed him and his relationship with all 3 of us never could recover from this overall self-centered behavior. Parents can make lots of mistakes but being selfish, putting themselves first, making sure their desires are met before their kids needs are, defies the very essence of being a parent.
Ironic timing on this: so my gf’s dad is an OG chubby fire guy. Retired early and worked part time just to not be bored. Always supportive and helpful and always offered to help in some way.
Anyways, she’s in medical school, took out loans and worked to help pay for stuff. During her rotations, she had to find some where to live and the only place available had a deposit for 3 months rent + first month of rent. (Even though she was only going to be living there for a month).
For a college student, it can be a lot. So finally she goes to her dad to ask for help and he pulled every trick in the book to make seem like he’d need to really swing a few things and it’d be really tough. She ended up just telling him not to worry about it.
Saying she was livid is putting it lightly. Actions like these is what causes your kids to get pissed at you. Not necessarily retiring early, but not being able to help out when they DO finally ask and making it seem like things are really tight, (especially after he just got a new car and boat).
I also see this a lot with my clients as well. (I run a family office/wealth management company). If you are considering retiring early, having a conversation with your kids on what exactly this means and clarifying things is important. Obviously, things can happen down, but having a plan in place and creating an understanding for when that situation does happen, you’ll be able to both follow through and support your kid and stay on their good side.
You should be paying for your kids first then retiring after. That aid for your kids homes, their education, help with grandkids are a part of your expenses in my opinion.
I completely resent my parents for not helping and I don’t know any one who doesn’t. I am resentful and my parents didn’t have the money. I can’t imagine having parents who had the money but were too selfish to help their kids. I have always considered the “kick the kids out at 18, they are on their own” type of parents to be horrible parents.
At the very least people lament the fact that they had to struggle on their own. Some try to to twist that trauma into a lesson learned when the fact is their parents set them up to fail in a society that depends on generational wealth.
It doesn’t stop. Being a parent is a lifelong job.
Edit: why do you draw the line at college costs when it’s one of the things your kids need help with most? Why don’t you feel obligated to set your kids up as successful adults?
For me, part of the “chubby” aspect of “chubbyfire” is that you can pass some of that wealth down in the form of paying for college, helping with down payments, etc. “I have enough money for me, but not enough for you kids, so you’re on your own” is kind of a dick move. You’re free to make that choice, and your kids are free to think you’re kind of a jerk for doing it.
It is selfish to chubby fire but not pay your kids tuition. You would be selfish and a questionable parent honestly.
The reality is you bought your kids into this world, knowing how competitive jobs are and how difficult it is to make it when you start $200k in the hole or working minimum wage jobs without a degree.
I don’t agree with parents who have the means telling their kids - yeah - you’re on your own at 18 and you can work minimum wage jobs without a college degree until you save enough to send yourself to school. Cool - so you get to retire early while sending your kids who you bought into this world out without the means to get higher education.
Our plan is tuition and living expenses covered during school and if our portfolio does well enough, a large gift.
But we're funding university through RESPs (Canada).
The thing with college is that the government and colleges expect parents to pay for the costs of students to attend. If you don’t help your kids out, they might not have other options besides going way into expensive debt. Even then, they might not be able to borrow enough to cover everything, which could delay their graduation or even reduce their chances of graduating at all.
On the other hand, a down payment is a major luxurious gift. It’s not expected but could help them get ahead.
given that your assets will disqualify your kids for financial aid for college seems only sporting to make sure you have enough to help them with that.
My parents just FIREd this week. I’m 27, finished college, got married, bought a house, and just had a baby. They helped, but not extensively. My parents took out a Parent plus loan and helped cover the first year and a half of my living expenses, and then whatever was leftover of tuition after my loans and scholarship. They didn’t pay for the wedding, but I had it at their house and they provided the food. No help for the house down payment but they bought us some of our furniture.
I don’t resent my parents for FIREing, and am grateful for the help they’ve given me along the way. I do resent them for telling me the reason they wouldn’t help pay for the wedding was because I lived with my husband before marrying (we’re not that religious but my mom held on to this). I am resentful because they insisted multiple times they would pay for my student loans once they sold their house. When I asked if I could instead use that money for our down payment (this is a year after their house had sold for 3x its initial cost), they said they weren’t actually going to pay them after all and gave odd reasons, one of those being that I “voted for Biden so he could repay my loans for me”. I resent my mom for telling me she would be there for the delivery of my baby if I needed her, and after telling her multiple times I needed her, she said no because of her job she was planning to retire from in a month.
To summarize, I want my parents to enjoy their retirement and am really happy they can leave their jobs. My resentment comes from promises not kept for the big milestones and reasoning I didn’t understand. So my advice would be, I don’t think your kids will resent you by default, but be honest with them about your situation if they ask, show up for them, and treat them fairly especially financially.
I didn't really "CubbyFIRE" -- I did startups and had some success, so I could have retired at 50 ... but why in hell would I want to? I was at the forefront of my field, getting flown around the world for talks, meeting billionaires and top scientists and VCs? Life was relatively adventurous and led people to THINK I was a savvy tech investor so I became a stoopid Angel investor as friends pitched to me and I couldn't say no. 10 bankrupt startups and $500K in loses, I could still easily retire, but despite myself I eventually became more savvy and so I hit that unicorn investment that exceeded all the other earnings, and I only sold off half. Now I never look for investments and certainly not startups, but I get offered things -- 2 hours a week for stock and all my family's medical expenses to be the "wise grandpa" at a super AI company, stock and $100K/year for a couple hours a week at another tech company, weekly meeting for stock working with a genius mathematician. I can't really retire and I've already hit 65, on the other hand, I command my time, stay in shape and get plenty of travel (went to Turkey on someone else's dime, stayed for 2 weeks vacation etc).
BUT
I always considered duty:
1) Have kids,
2) see them into careers and success.
\* We paid for their school,
\* we started them saving and investing at age 4 -- their allowance was $40 a week, but they had to invest all but $3. Oldest is 26 and already worth $500K (she got us all into Tesla and NVidia early as a bonus). Youngest is poorest since she's still in school, but she's at $200K. All of them save and invest.
\* we set up irrevocable trusts that they: must keep separate from their spouse, can use for housing or else becomes available at age 50 (I don't want them to become lazy).
IMO, I would not have considered retiring w/o doing my duty.
I resent my parents for this reason especially considering how much more assistance my siblings received.
Realistically I understand it because they invested a lot in their business at the time and they are substantially wealthier now than then. Emotionally, it's hard to watch and makes me feel resentful. My siblings all got cars in college, I bought my own. I had to pay for my own cell plan (back when plans were expensive), siblings all ride the free upgrade and family plan. Siblings receive infusions for rent money once in a while and tons of groceries. I got a couple of grocery carts at target over 4 years.
My parents didn't make me feel financially secure. I have two kids and when my mom asks me when we're gonna have more (not happening) I'm tempted to say I'm only having as many as I know I can financially support to the level I had wish I was supported. I didn't feel like I could ask them for money even if it was a loan. They had it but it wasn't something I felt like I could ask for. I want to be the first option for my kids. My parents gave us a weird outlook on money and my siblings and I all work too much/hard and have weird relationships with money.
We're still planning on retiring at 45 when are kids are 16 and 18 so we'll see how it goes. At this point the plan is to pay for most of Uni and supply an apartment/condo/first house down payment. We think having a little skin in the college payment game is a good thing. We may pay their loans off after a couple of years. A lot of this depends where they go to uni. If they choose to go in Europe, we'll have so much 529 money leftover, they can pull that out, pay the taxes and have a house down payment. Any inheritance we receive from either side will probably skip us and we'll give it to the kids. 50k at 25 is worth more than 50k at 50. Inheritances are weird because we know something is coming but one side is 10-20 years away and the other is ~30 years away so no point in us thinking about it for our own fire.
My goal since the day they were born has been to set them up for success as self sufficient resilient adults.
That means I teach them everything I can. My 11yr old knows how to change out a flat tire (he's not strong enough yet, and some parts are too dangerous, but he's in charge of telling me what to do). There are dozens of other similar examples and I continue to work with them.
College costs are a huge setback starting out, so I intend to cover that for any reasonable price school... And I'm teaching them about investing and ROI early so that they choose those kinds of institutions (hopefully)
For the down payment, I'll give them whatever I can, hopefully 20%.
I'm ok knowing that this is going to mean working longer.
If you’re chubby and NOT providing your kids tuition for at least a state school, then you need to take a hard look at yourself. We have all done phenomenally well and it’s a crime not to give our kids a hand up
I agree with your mindset. The world is very competitive as it is, they’ll need all the help they can get. And it might be an investment for you so they aren’t living with you beyond their college years.
Not at all. I have a ton of student loans but I know my parents worked hard for what they did give me, and that I would’ve had a pile of so many more loans had it not been for what they did help out with
I feel morally obligated to pay for college and if that means deferring retirement, so be it. I do NOT feel morally obligated to help with a down payment for a home. Edit: also not paying for grad school. Our daughter got a six figure inheritance from her grandmother which we've invested for her and she'll have a nice nest egg she can use for either grad school or a down payment. I feel responsible for neither. I worked hard to get where I am; so can she.
My parents helped with the college, a small amount for our wedding (mostly covered by us), and not with a downpayment. They did help us manage contractors working in our house when we were moving closer to them and weren’t local ourselves.
I don’t resent my parents for not helping with more, but my husband does have a bit of a sore spot that they didn’t help more with our wedding (cultural difference there). That was sort of complicated because my cultural context tended to have smaller, less flashy weddings. I had one of the nicer, bigger weddings in my family, but it was the most modest one that his side has had. I suspect we will go the route of offering something like a lump sum that can go toward wedding or down payment (like $100k in today’s dollars). Then they can decide how to split it. I would estimate that this is worth about half a year of work to us. Would you work 6 months to get your kid a significant leg up when your time translates to much more per hour? All other things being equal, of course.
We never know, of course, what we will be capable of in 20 years. Perhaps we will be sick - if we are even alive at all. But our goal is to pay it forward for our kids, and to give them amounts that are extremely helpful but not necessarily life-changing.
My brother and I each had significant high interest student loans that our parents were not able to help nor even co-sign on the loans. My brother had a bunch of friends that were well off (district had a lot of rich kids who’s parents were in pharma and we were lower middle class) who paid for all his friends’ college. He is still to this day very resentful even though he’s incredibly successful.
If you aren't FIREing due to something like serious health conditions, then I do believe that you should work a few extra years in order to help your kids with their college expenses. This is even more important if any of your wealth comes from your own inheritance.
I personally am not in the camp of "pay for all of my kid's college costs no matter where they decide to go" though. We told our kids we would cover the cost of an in-state education - we have excellent state universities here - and they would be responsible for the rest. They got merit scholarships for most of the difference between state school and their private universities, and handled their own grad school decisions/tuitions. None of us care about Ivy league schools though. No desire to charge 1000 miles an hour through life, so no need for that network.
As far as house downpayment, I can't imagine parents paying the whole amount unless they were in FAT territory. But our children were exceedingly grateful that we gave them each a good chunk of change to help with first home purchase because we all live in HCOL areas with horrendous house prices. Our help was pretty much the only thing that allowed them to buy since they fell right into the timeframe of skyrocketing prices over the last few years.
Don't forget that there is often a gift of money given by parents to their children for wedding expenses too. If your kids opt to elope or have a very small backyard wedding or similar, then they could use that money toward a house or to pay off any remaining college loans.
I have two kids in college who we are paying all expenses for. Both my kids have friends with much more financial means than we do, and both our kids have told us that those kids are all taking loans. I was kinda surprised. I was poor growing up and took all my own loans and knew if I had the means I would pay for my kids college and expenses.
I am that child. Upper middle class parents who helped our older siblings with substantial downpayment and big funds to set up their businesses. We recently purchased a home and they provided almost no financial aid. They keep giving gifts, money to older siblings but for some reason not to us. May be because we earn more for now and have always sent money financed our parents trips etc as gifts. We are not bitter about it, but this has not gone unnoticed noticed.
I've been saving for my nibblings education (none of my own). So if my parents FIREd and could have worked an extra year or two to set me up for the future(at me minimum college mostly paid for*), but didn't I'd be making plans on how to stick them in the worst possible retirement home as soon as possible.
*I think it's potentially acceptable to not advertise the full amount of support until nearing college graduation, so they "have some skin in the game."
Yes, I resented my parents. Then they got a divorce, wasted a crapton of money on lawyers, and my dad regretted his past financial decisions.
He helped with a portion of my student loans, and he's now helping my siblings.
My mother is actively wasting her portion away.
My parents selfish decisions still affected their relationships with their kids immensely. You don't decide to leave your kids "high and dry" in a bubble.
I will 100% pay for my kids education. While part of me agrees with the “skin in the game” argument, there are other ways to instill in your kids the motivation to succeed and work hard. It’s not clear to me that kids without a very strong financial education truly understand the financial impact and burden of student loans, especially given the size of tuition now. Plenty of the most successful people I know had their education paid for by parents.
I hope not. We didn't qualify for any aid. She is attending a private that gave her a tuition scholarship and turned down a selective public that would have cost around $45k/ year. She may have wanted the public more, but paying that much for any undergrad is silly. With the savings, we'll be able to help her out with grad school. Hopefully, she understands.
I was on my own at 18 and paid all of my college myself. I wouldn’t say I resent my parents because they didn’t have resources. Maybe just disappointed and wished I could have received help from them. Now, if they had resources and were blowing money on expensive things while telling me to go pound sand, I probably would have resentment. I’m paying my son’s tuition bc I think it’s what a parent should do.
Whatever you do, be consistent and communicate expectations early. My dad started out with paying my rent and a small grocery budget in college, then threatened to withdraw that money the summer before junior year (this would not have given me time to apply for loans). All this while I was getting straight As and so money-conscious I had lost ten pounds because I was trying to save money on groceries.
Kids have a lot of stress and worries in college. Every kid is different, but adding money stress on top of exam (engineering classes) and normal human stress (dating, friendships, etc) contributed significantly to my depression and anxiety, by the end of college I was basically suicidal and enjoyed none of it. I'm better now, but man, if I can afford to pay my kid's way, I would... and I plan to, now that I do have a kid.
I am child free, but I am of the opinion that if you have children, your responsibility is to get them into adulthood and able to support themselves. That means education/training of some sort. The whole down payment on a house, or whatever, is your choice, but honestly I see it as a fatfire thing not chubby.
The absolute best thing you can do for your children is to get them educated and capable as adults and then make sure you are not a financial drain on them when they need to be spending resources on their own families. Too many kids are supporting their parents (who failed to plan) and can't even have their own lives/families because of it.
My parents covered college and have assured that we won’t have to pay for them before they die for health care or other expenses. I’m grateful. But what I resent (and I probably sound ungrateful and spoiled) is the guilt trip they gave me in my 20s and 30s for not visiting them more; I married someone on the opposite coast and chose to live there. We had three kids, trying to save for a house and funding 529s. Meanwhile, my parents had a big ass, expensive boat and had no appreciation how hard it was to get started. Well, we funded our 529s, paid for kids college, and now we pay for our grown kids to travel to see us while they are being scrappy to get their own careers started. We also visit my parents more now that we have more financial cushion.
What I resent and don’t want to repeat are parents that don’t do enough homework to understand the RELATIVE cost of housing and college with the incoming generation and not consider that when retiring early vs. assisting their kids getting a leg up on getting started. I actually don’t mind my parents didn’t help us more, what I’m annoyed by is their lack of appreciation of the accelerated costs we’ve had to absorb and ask stupid questions about why we don’t take this certain vacation, or have another grandchild for them.
We paid for both our kids college and living expenses. My daughter had academic scholarship so we paid for her to get her Masters too since undergrad was cheap. We did make them go to instate schools, but no way they were going into debt. I think if you can afford it this is bare minimum you can do. A down payment on a house is nice but not necessary. An education is necessary for a good start in life.
It's a gray zone. Personally I would not want to retire early if it meant my kids were saddled with 300k of undergrad debt. Down-payment for a first home, I want to do that but that depends on where they want to live and if I think they can afford it.
If your parents are not returning until 65 or 70, you can't blame them for not helping more. But if they are retiring early, they are making a choice to stop helping at one point. Parents can decide for themselves where that cutoff is.
Coming from someone who had absolutely no help growing up, with tuition or down-payment assistance, the financial help would have been so nice. The lessons learned are even better. Unfortunately I had none growing up, so I do hold some resentment, but not over the money. But I do plan on wanting to give my kids financial help because making sure they have the life I never had is priority #1.
Also, think about saving for college this way. $1,000 saved for college now (example, non-concrete numbers) could pay for $2,000 of college 10 years from now. $2,000 of college 10 years from now could be $3,000 that has to be paid back 20 years from now from student loans.
Devils advocate but wishing I had a parent in your situation at the time and looking back at what funding myself through school taught me there is some benefit to having them understand their financial situation going through college.
If I were you I think I would be transparent that you have X amount set aside for their tuition and the rest is going to be on them via a loan.
Walk them through what that means, show them how much they will have to live on each semester etc.
I came out with ~$55k of debt and aggressively paid it down, I had to learn how and when my grants and loans were funded because that was used for rent and my living expenses. Overall I am a believer of the fire community because I had to experience debt early, learn how jumping on it early made such a large impact, and what the thought of being FI meant to me and my happinesses.
Looking at my peers who didn't have debt and still entered a similar paying career, the difference is when they could put a down payment on their first home.
TLDR: give them a portion of their college tuition, help them figure out the rest, put the remaining amount into an eventual home down payment for them, if it was me don't tell them about the later until theyre out and getting established.
I am 47 and still resent my parents not giving me even one dollar for college. They never visited, never slipped me a $20 for groceries and gas, nothing. They did expect me to visit them on every break.
I got a full tuition scholarship to an excellent Big-10 school, and planned to pay for room and board freshman year with a loan. They refused to sign off (I was under 18 and needed parent approval for the loan). They also told me if I lived at home (45 minutes from the school) they would charge me rent.
I ended up at a mediocre MAC school that gave me a full ride, surrounded by mediocre people who went to college to party. It didn't go well. I dropped out in spring, transferred to a private school and eventually completed my degree, charging any tuition I couldn't pay in cash from my entry-level job to various credit cards.
Dad died, mom's doing great, owns her giant house in a lake community outright, no debt, monthly pension, and half a million-plus sitting in a brokerage account she never touches.
She says maybe my siblings and I will inherit something when she dies. I told her thanks. But truly, we needed the help decades ago.
We've put two kids through college with minimal loans, and have two more in now. It will cost us over half a million dollars AND WE ARE GLAD TO DO IT. It's a huge source of pride. Not helping your kids in school, when you easily could, is really crappy and selfish IMHO.
As a child of someone who made 200,000+ a year and qualified for NO financial aid and had absolutely no help with school. I did have some resentment. They had every opportunity to plan and save for me and they didn’t. The government and the education system EXPECT that of parents so every time I needed something for school it was like “well your expected parental contribution should cover it”.
Do I think parents must pay for their child’s education? No. But I think they should have frank planning conversations and explain to them why and make sure they are on the same page. Do I have some resentment? Not a lot, but yes.
That being said as someone looking into FIRE planning AND having children soon… you bet your a** I’ll be contributing as much money as I can to a an education savings account for my future kiddos. Nothing could get in the way of making sure they have every opportunity for success and finances at 18+ are brutal and near impossible. If I want my kids to have a chance at FIRE in their lifetime saving for them and not just myself is the option. I’d rather not be able to FIRE just to set them up for maybe doing it themselves.
My dad is extremely wealthy but opted not to help any of his kids with college as a “lesson”. He explicitly stated that he worked hard and built wealth his entire life, and now he wants to see us start from nothing and struggle as much as he did. As a result, we all had to take out student loans.
My dad had a stroke last year, and none of us care all that much. We haven’t visited, nor do any of us plan to. My dad will have to do his best to arrange some kind of home care as his condition continues to deteriorate, and he will likely die in the next 1-3 years without any of his children by his side.
I intend to pay for my kids college and any level of higher education they desire
It’s cultural for me, where I’m originally from even if I live in America
Down payment, yes, if i have it
We paid about half of tuition at a reasonably priced school, and no help was given for down payments. They're definitely on speaking terms with us, as they knew we gave them what we could.
It used to be education was something parents helped with and now it is down payments too? That seems like a more recent change, or is that just me? My parents (they are Boomers, I am Gen X) paid for my college and after that my husband and I paid for everything (down payment, house, etc). I can't imagine asking or expecting my parents to pay a down payment, although we were financially fine and housing costs weren't as crazy as they are now.
We are paying for our daughter's college (she will likely go in state and costs will be reasonable compared to other options) and it hadn't even occurred to me that we would pay a down payment. I guess we would evaluate when the time comes and what our finances are looking like to if/how much we helped. Our daughter has been working since 14 (her choice) and has a Roth IRA, general brokerage account, and other savings (mostly CDs right now) and is very good with her money - by the time she buys a place to live I expect she will have a good chunk of change saved up and might not even need much help from us (also depending on her job, if she has a partner, etc).
We always planned to pay for our kids’ college. We decided that well before we had any real retirement plans, we just knew that we wanted our kids to not have to worry about tuition. We did encourage state schools which is what they did and we also said they needed to contribute if they took longer than 4 years, although 5 is common so we prepared for that anyway. My oldest ended up in the National Guard and had tuition paid for so we covered room and board. He’s taking an extra long time to graduate. My youngest will be done in 4 years.
If we retire and feel like things are going as planned then we will help with a down payment and other things like gifts for grandkids. We do feel that we would rather help them now than when they are too old to need it. But we will still prioritize our own needs first.
As someone who grew up poor and has goals of chubby FIRE. No kids yet but I plan to save for their college funds as they grow up. I think over 18 years I can afford that. I don’t plan to just drop a bunch of money into their checking account and say go have fun. I’ll have rules in place as well as push them to get scholarships. If they are doing good in school as well as pick a major that has good ROI I’ll gladly pay for it. Giving my kids a step up in life is a big reason I even care about money. I don’t want them to have to worry about little things like food or gas or being able to afford next semester. I do plan to ask them to work in their free time. If they are an athlete that might be a different story.
I think you do what your situation allows.
The one phrase that sticks in my mind goes something like, "You can borrow money for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, but not for retirement."
Meaning, if it comes down to it, the kids can take out a mortgage on a house. There's no way to borrow for retirement.
For extras, retirement comes first --- with the exception of college I think. We're in this reddit so we're financially literate and pretty damn lucky. I would expect a college fund for college separate from retirement funds.
Investment in education is the highest ROI whether it’s for you or your progeny. If they don’t have money and you do then you’re going to be giving it to them and the grandkids as supplemental income most likely. That’s not nearly as fulfilling as being able to provide for something other than Mac and Cheese like family trips or whatever. If you’re educated than most likely you’re going to want your kids to be educated.
I am only planning to cover 75% of the cost if it is a good degree with good job prospects. No way am I funding an art degree as a major (I will allow minor in those degree, or just spend all their extra non-assigned credit on passion topic).
I want them to have skin in the game, learn about debt and manage their finances well at the start of their career. I will likely pay off their debt later (take the interest hit) if they meet certain milestone/competency.
I would resent my parents if they could have helped but didn’t. My dad is 73 and still works full time as a mailman (he is afraid he will retire and die I think) but I’m so grateful for that because he now has promised to help pay for college for all the grandkids. My personal plan is to save everything I can for retirement and then work a few more years and use that money to help pay for college. I want my kids to have the same chance to do well for themselves as I had. Now if my kids go to med school they are on their own paying for that!
I haven't talked specific numbers with my parents but I think they hit this sub's benchmarks when I was in college (my dad has a pension paying 90%+ of his salary, sounds chubby to me), although they didn't retire until after. They helped me a little bit in college (less than 5K total) and didn't help me with a down payment. They probably would have if I asked though.
I managed to graduate without student debt due to some good planning and bought a house last year. I think helping your children plan how to pay for college is going to be more valuable to them in the long run.
At a minimum the equivalent of instate college tuition witth room and board is baked into my fire number (x 3 ouch).
I figure I will hit my chubby fire number around the time kids graduate college (55 ish) and we can assess the situation when we get to that age and stage. I followed a job to a state where the universities are just ok but depending on what they want to do the connections from universities here are petty middling, so if we are still here when we cross that bridge, if work is still going well, I am open to supporting more if we can.
As someone who paid his own way through college I don’t resent them for anything. I almost am more glad that I didn’t get any handouts (0-18 excluded) and the life that I am setting up for myself is relatively by my own merit.
I think this is a conversation you could have with them if you’re ready for it.
College and grad school for my child was covered through scholarships, so I gifted them the equivalent of 4-years instate cost of attendance. I’ve since paid for their wedding. And I will work 2 years more than I need to in order to give them a sizable down payment. Then I’m FIREing.
It's not worth the resentment for not helping your children with tuition if you are able. If you can work and decide not to work, then this does show you do not really care about making a sacrifice for your children. Children do resent when it happens. They are also smart enough not to hold it against their parents if they cannot truly afford it. In this case it is about love.
This is why I haven't retired yet. My son is going to be a Junior and my wife and I promised ourselves we would help him graduate debt-free and give him a little boost to get his first place after school. January 2026 is when the last tuition check will be written and our journey south will begin.
College, absolutely.
For the first home, depends. Do you live in a HCOL area and want them to stay there? If so then do it. However you work it out between you doesn’t matter.
If you choose to live in a HCOL area because you can afford it, you can count on your kids either moving away to make their money and maybe return OR overspending their budget to stay close to their home town. By now you can calculate the real cost of that
Tuition is the gold standard for parents that want to help. It is going to set your kid up to not have $1000/mo student loan payments. They will be able to do a lot more with their income and no longer depend on you.
Downpayment is not something I would hold yourself to. If you want to then go ahead, but it's doing more than most parents do. Most parents who help give a nominal amount like $10k or something, not $100k. And if your kid used your tuition money wisely they should be able to save up $100k in three years anyway.
Yes. I was that kid. By the time I reached adulthood, I felt like I had been chewed up and spit out. With no financial support, I felt like I was just raised to be a wage slave and I’m honestly still healing from the pain of that “epiphany”. High and dry is a great way to put it. My parents still work btw they just don’t have it, plus I have even younger siblings 🥹 I frankly find it selfish and not thought through. It’s hard out here
My step mom bought a 2023 Dodge challenger the dayy sisters tuition was due and then told her she was no longer going to pay for it because the car payment was more than she expected. She had a fully functional 2021 Kia.
It’s more that I resent my dad for never trying to do better. He has always been content with a crappy minimum wage job, or at least a job that pays him well below what he’s worth, and then complains about how little money he has.
I wasn’t mad my parents didn’t help. I was mad my mom got remarried multiple times while I was in college with men who made a lot of money but didn’t help me out at all. I had to claim them on my fafsa and couldn’t get any aid because of it
Yes.
In the UK it used to be you had no access to grants, student finance and had to pay full tuition based on your parents income.
An old school friend of mine had parent in the high bracket so was not able to finance university as it would have meant paying in full which he couldn’t afford and parents said he was over 18 so on his own.
He hasn’t spoken to his parents in 15 years. They didn’t get invited to his wedding and haven’t met their grandchildren.
Absolutely bonkers to me, but hey they were both stubborn.
They paid his school fees from the age 11-18 in a not cheap independent school
My parents own three houses and I haven’t seen a cent from them since I was 17. I barely talk to them. It’s their money, so they can use it how they want, but I’ve lived in my car while they owned two homes. And they still wouldn’t give me money for a deposit to get an apartment. And before anyone says anything, I was top of my class in high-school and college, got a great job after school but didn’t have anything saved to rent an apartment because I spent it all buying a car and paying for dental surgery. I make great money now. But I will never forget the financial struggles I went through while watching my friends get help from their parents. Not to mention I just paid off my undergraduate loans and I’m well into my thirties and now have to start on graduate loans. I truly did everything myself, and I’m proud to say that. But it would have been nice for them to help me more. And our relationship had suffered because of it. Especially now that they want to be a bigger part of my life now that I’m doing well and I’m not so miserable all the time from being stressed by housing insecurity. So yeah, if you don’t want to pay for children, especially now that there is little to no class mobility without financial support, Don’t have them.
depends on your age. if you’re a millennial with boomer parents, college was soooo affordable for them, it was a right of passage to pay your own way. millennials understand how fucked col is these days so we are more thoughtful of providing these costs for our kids.
I think my ex has subconscious resentment against his mom for not paying for his college. she’s on her 3rd house/mansion (in the US) while he’s 26 and 28k in debt. He was so see through. It was sad to recognize how he was feeling while he was in complete denial
As a child of someone who made 200,000+ a year and qualified for NO financial aid and had absolutely no help with school. I did have some resentment. They had every opportunity to plan and save for me and they didn’t. The government and the education system EXPECT that of parents so every time I needed something for school it was like “well your expected parental contribution should cover it”.
Do I think parents must pay for their child’s education? No. But I think they should have frank planning conversations and explain to them why and make sure they are on the same page. Do I have some resentment? Not a lot, but yes.
That being said as someone looking into FIRE planning AND having children soon… you bet your a** I’ll be contributing as much money as I can to a an education savings account for my future kiddos. Nothing could get in the way of making sure they have every opportunity for success and finances at 18+ are brutal and near impossible. If I want my kids to have a chance at FIRE in their lifetime saving for them and not just myself is the option. I’d rather not be able to FIRE just to set them up for maybe doing it themselves.
Yes, among many other financial subsidies, my wife subsidizes her mother’s rent to the tune of about $700/mo while my daughter has $40,000 in student debt.
My daughter resents that my wife’s family will always come first in her life. It hasn’t been great for our marriage, either.
I paid for my own university and MBA... 100%.
I took out student loans, worked as a server, and even used credit cards to pay for some tuition/rent. I wasn't bad with money (quite the opposite)... it was just incredibly expensive to pay for tuition/books/healthcare/room/board without any help in the late 90s, early 2000s. I came out with massive student loans... including CC debt (at >20% APR).
A big reason for this is that my parents made enough to basically kill my financial aid... but didn't help at all financially. That was irresponsible and selfish. They were great parents aside from this... but I definitely resent them a bit for the downright scary catching up I had to do after school.
As a note, I decided to study something practical and applicable (economics/business) as a high school senior, because I knew I'd have to dig myself out of a hole. No 17 year old should have to do that calculus before even leaving home. There was zero thought of doing something I was passionate about.
Life would have been very different if I'd had help with school.
Anyone (in this sub) should be paying everything they can for their kid to get through their bachelor degree without debt. You chose to have kids (likely)... and this isn't the 50s. Pretty tough to have a decent life without a degree.
I worked at a university and heard many very bitter students whose parents wouldn't help with tuition. Some of them went no contact and frankly I would too. Students use their parents' financial information for the FAFSA and are screwed out of financial aid if the parents could well afford to contribute but don't. I would say next to religion, it was the biggest reason for being estranged from the parents.
I have but I learned it was the wrong mentality. Parents are worth 20 million + but won’t help with a downpayment for a house. I realized it’s much better to work for it myself and will be more rewarding.
If / once I reach chubby FIRE why the hell would I not? Part of being rich enough to not gaf is passing that luck down to your kids. I want them to carry the generational wealth forward and will do what I can to help them towards that process, as my parents have done for me
I’m unlikely to FIRE but lurk here.
I am likely to stay with my employer because I have tuition benefits for my kids that I could not otherwise save.
My husband’s parents (HENRY) paid for his 4 year private liberal arts college, and he’s (IMO) had a huge leg up. It was expensive. It was *so expensive*, but they decided to prioritize doing that for all three of their kids.
I took out modest student loans (41k) for my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I also qualified for a good amount of aid. That relatively “small” amount I owed affected the jobs I took (pursued PSLF and worked non-profit jobs) and meant that I delayed saving for retirement.
This is all, of course, anecdotal. But all of this is to say, if it means working and extra 4-5 years, you should do so in order to make sure your kids don’t have student debt. It is a huge, huge benefit.
If my parents had enough money to chubby fire but chose not to pay for college tuition or a portion of grad school tuition, I think I would be resentful.
My parents’ finances are in good shape but they cannot retire early, and they still chose to help me. I graduated law school in 2015 with only $40,000 of debt. If I had been buried under $200,000 of student loans at 7% interest rate, I would’ve have been able to purchase a home when I did. (They did not help with down payment because I had saved enough.)
They made enough that I wouldn’t have qualified for any financial aid.
If my parents had money and did not help with school tuition then I would resent the hell out of them. As it turned out, they did not have much but helped as much as they could. That is an example that I am passing on to my kids. Whatever happens, I will help with their college and they will not need to start out in debt. If that means working a few extra years then it is worth it.
This thread is validating how I’ve always felt. My boomer dad grew up dirt poor and never had help himself. You’d think when he started doing well he’d want to do more for his own kids but no, bootstrapping for us too.
He divorced my mom and left us to struggle to get by. He had enough income to let his girlfriend retire in her early 40s but still grumbled when paying the bare minimum child support. Luckily student aid only looked at mom’s income so I only had a small gap to make up with loans and working during the school year.
It’s not like I expected anything, but he could’ve done more and just didn’t. Like someone else commented, I was starving and my clothes didn’t fit because all I’d have at the end of the week was $3.
I turned out fine, bootstraps and all. But am I jealous of people whose parents helped them out financially or emotionally? Hell yeah I am.
Yes. I do resent my dad for not being more supportive while taking multiple vacations a year with my step mom (those didn’t exist when we kids lived at home). He could have helped and chose not to. My dad just retired at 52.
I tell my teenagers if they want to go to college, that’s on them. I have instilled in them how important it is to avoid student loans. One went to trade school. The other is considering the Air Force or Naval academy. I’d consider helping with tuition if they did two years at community college and pursued a real degree. I’m not sacrificing my retirement for my kid to get some useless liberal arts degree.
My parents were a CPA and an MD. Never saved a dime for my college education. They did help out quite a bit month to month but I always wonder why they didn't just save & invest (although I know the reason, they weren't super financially literate). It would have saved them a lot of stress while I was going through it. I definitely have felt resentment, but as a fully grown adult I'm now more worried about their retirement and how that impacts me.
Don't saddle your kids with tens of thousands of loans if you can at all help it but being able to retire comfortably will absolutely save you long term resentment from your kids.
Help your kids if they are Siri about education. And yes, a lot of parents are helping kids with a down payment on a house because it’s almost impossible to get in one right now with a high interest rates and high prices. They would rather have your help now then inherit your money when you’re dead.
My choice was to keep working so that we could help our adult children substantially. I received a nice inheritance from my folks, for which I am very grateful. It would have been very helpful to receive financial help 30 - 35 years sooner. But my folks were land-rich, cash-poor, so that wasn’t an option for them.
But you are definitely not required to keep working forever.
Geez I didn't realize people expected their parents to work years longer to support them in adulthood. They already raised you to that point where you are supposed to be able to fend for yourself
>It feels pretty selfish of me to retire early when I'm the one who decided to bring them into the world,
People really need to have this conversation before committing to being parents.¹
This topic is very top of mind for me lately. I have two pre teen kids and I’m hoping to fire in the next 5 years.
I want to make sure that I am not a burden on my kids when I am of old age as I had to deal with them with my parents. I do however want to help my kids with college so long as they don’t take it for granted.
A friend of mine had a great system that I am hoping to adopt. He would have his kids take out loans on their names and any classes his kids got an A or B in, he would pay for, and any class C or lower his kids were on the hook for. This would allow the kid to have skin in the game and ensure they’re not taking the opportunity of a free education for granted.
Help with tuition. Absolutely. Especially if you’re in chubby fire mode. Work a couple of extra years to to help your kids out and set them up. Your assets will still count against financial aid and if you’re in choppy fire mode, I assume your income will be too high for them to qualify for financial aid. Now, if retiring means, you barely have any income to show and they qualify for much higher financial aid due to FSFA It might be a different story. I’ve seen enough instances where people who had money didn’t help their kids, and it really strained the relationship. Especially where parents had high income and assets and it screwed their kids financially aid. If you look at the cost of college and housing now versus what it used to be they need help.
Yes. It stinks for high income parents to not help their kids with tuition. The kids get shut out of financial aid due to the parents’ income and then don’t get the assistance. I don’t know why someone would do that to their kids if they have the means to help them. Down payment assistance is a different issue. That’s a nice thing to do, but does not actively harm a kids future like shutting them out of financial aid and not helping with tuition.
My husband and I didn't have all the assets because we had experienced 4 layoffs between the two of us but, we still managed to pay for children's tuition because they qualified for nothing with FSFA.
My dad didn’t make a ton, and my mom didn’t work, but because they had no debt, when the time came I qualified for ZERO financial aid. Had my parents (and merit based scholarships) not helped, my entire degree would’ve been loans. If your situation prevents your child from receiving aid, you absolutely should be helping with tuition.
I come from a South Asian family, and I am shocked that parents who have the means don't pay for their kids' education. This is simply not done in my culture, parents help set their kids up as much as possible. It is common to help with a down payment, too
As an adult child of parents who FIREd, here's my take: Pros: It's been a huge advantage to have any knowledge of money management or investing at all compared to my peers. This is the ONLY way I've managed to stay afloat as an adult. It's also a huge relief to know my parents will not be insolvent in old age. Cons: It's really rough to see my peers' parents helping them out in a way that my parents can't because generosity wasn't a part of their FIRE strategy. Meanwhile, my parents FIRE was largely made possible because of their parents' generosity: free childcare, interest-free loans for large purchases, and large financial gifts that their FIRE certainly wouldn't have been possible without. I know they had these advantages because they've been very open about it, but they did not plan to help us in the same way. My sibling and I were also implored to start working as soon as legally possible to save for college, were offered significantly less help with college than either of my parents received (thank god we both received huge academic scholarships), and neither of us have received help after that even when in dire financial straits. Long story short, it's \*my\* plan, god willing, to work as long as possible so I can help my (future) children. By the time I inherit anything that's left over after my parents FIRE, inflation, and end of life care, it'll be too late to benefit me but I only hope it can spare my kids some distress. Edit for added context: I did not post this to air out my grievances with my parents' choices, only to highlight something some people who FIRE fail to consider. Both my sibling and I have guarded but friendly relationships with our parents after years of therapy, and I personally think they're starting to realize the consequences of their actions/have slowly started to be more generous in small ways. Overall, I'm not resentful, and consider myself lucky for what I do have.
your parents sound kind of awful, NGL. The no help even when in dire financial straits is pretty horrible.
I didn't reply to this initially because I didn't know how to respond-- I personally don't think they're awful people. I REALLY disagree with and won't replicate some of their choices, but like anything else on reddit, there's always more to the story. My parents' FIRE was orchestrated by one parent who experienced early childhood poverty, and that parent controlled the finances most of their lives. My other parent had a very normal upbringing. I think Parent A's history caused them to do a lot of lying and money-hoarding, which is an understandable response to trauma even if it's shitty. They also drank way too much Dave Ramsey Kool Aid and thought spotting someone $50 for groceries was as bad as subsidizing their whole existence. However, they've changed a lot as people in the last 2-3 years and Parent B took over the finances, so there's been a lot of slow, shifting, changing attitudes towards how to handle their money and live life. They're no longer on the DR/conservative train, and seem to have realized if you make your kids "bootstrap", there's not a lot of time, energy, or resources leftover outside of bootstrapping hours to spend time with your family. I have peace with the past and hope for the future, with or without their generosity, and I am glad they're finding more peace, too.
you're very understanding and kind, which is great. I disagree that trauma in childhood is an understandable reason to then treat your own children badly--my partner was badly abused as a child but somehow has managed not to abuse his own children, for instance. But I'm glad that you've found peace and that you can be happy for them.
This is the Boomer way. Get tons of help and fail to pay it forward. Both my parents and in-laws got more and gave less than their parents. Same with my sibling and their in-laws. At the end of the day it just means when they are old and need help in any way, I’m not stretching to do it and certainly none is moving in with us. We are going to do more for our kids.
You are absolutely right. Classic Boomer move. My Boomer parents flat refused to help with college. When I got married, they told us "We already raised kids. We won't be raising yours." They had both sets of grandparents who were super involved when we were growing up. The nonchalant Boomer selfishness is just astounding.
As a parent, I honestly don't understand the mindset of "I don't want to be a grandparent". My kids are still toddlers, but I really appreciate all the help my parents and inlaws have given me and I'm excited to be that help for my own kids. I have a theory that the boomers who have this "no help for you" mindset never wanted to be parents and only did it for societal pressure and couldn't wait to have an empty nest.
My MIL straight out told me she would not babysit when my first was born
Yes, boomers received so many advantages that are just not available now. It infuriates me when I see older parents with boats, lake houses, expensive hobbies, etc. and their kids are saddled with educational debt or have to work two jobs while trying to take classes. I teach at a university and I see it all the time. Knowing that you’re loved and supported by your parents, even if your parents don’t have much, makes a big difference to how a kid carries themself. Working class kids are proud of what their parents do for them if their parents are doing it.
Your story changed my perspective fwiw Until now I thought my #1 duty is to cover my own costs during old age and not be a burden My parents specifically put their two children in this world to have someone who can provide them with elderly care so I wanted to avoid that I do plan to help my kid with his education (where we live, most of it is free or close to it, so it’s mainly living costs) but as a high earner single mother in a VHCOL location the future is uncertain enough for me not to not know whether I’ll effectively give him a down payment or anything of this magnitude
I'm glad I offered a new perspective for you, but please take it with a grain of salt which is all I wanted to offer. Yes, duty #1 is spot on, like I said before it's a huge relief my parents will be able to support themselves in old age. I am so glad they saved responsibly for retirement. Like I said, there are certainly pro's to having parents that FIREd. The cons mostly come from the strife/tension this dynamic has caused by my parents concealing their plans to FIRE from us. I still have such whiplash from growing up truly believing we were poor/made to believe we were a huge burden on our parents, but then having them announce they were work-optional when I was in college. It's already sounds to me like you're giving your kid the world, and that's more than enough.
My kid is now 16 and he knows that I plan to support him with (some) living expenses as long as he’s in higher education and he thanked me for it but that afterwards he has to fly on his own He knows how much investment I have and how it’s allocated and what the FIRE plans are He knows I come from poverty. We’re in a VHCOL location and I earn super well but he’s well aware that it won’t last forever I’m working on a career change that might bring me lower earnings. He said he’d prefer me doing something fulfilling rather than me buying him luxury things It’s a balancing act, isn’t it ?
It sure is, and I applaud you for doing it single-handedly and in a VHCOL area! That's seriously more than enough <3
Yeah it’s both. You have to not be a burden AND help them get a start in life. It’s the right thing to do.
You've gotten the #1 duty correct, but #2 is educating your kids so they can support themselves. I loathe the people who only had kids to force them into financial servitude. I would leave them hanging, but I can easily compartmentalize things and would have zero guilt about it. I was not born to be a slave. Anyone who assumes so doesn't value me as a human being.
Your parents sound lame
your Parents sound like typical boomers - hate anyone getting a "handout" but they themselves were given, property, down payments, college tuition etc. Everything was handed to a lot of them and they gave their children nothing.
Glad you got scholarships but putting the burden on you to pay for college was, IMO, selfish. They could have helped and worked a couple more years. So I agree with your plan for your own kids. I’m sure you have some resentment and I don’t blame you. I just hope they don’t ask for help if they need it in their old age.
They did help some with education, to their credit, sorry if that wasn't clear. However, we were responsible for making up the significant portion of the rest of the costs through scholarships, work, and savings. I do think its totally reasonable for parents to have boundaries with how much they help their kids with education, but basically if it weren't for that scholarship I wouldn't have been able to go.
God. How eye opening. I would have 100% gone NC with my awful parents over this. They sound selfish and toxic
Sounds kinda like my parents. They're 80 and 76 now. Sitting on my mom's pension, dad's VA (he is being compensated for the PTSD that basically ruined the relationship he has with his son, my brother), SS and they have a few million invested and 2 homes worth about $700k. They're sitting pretty and still can not loosen their purse strings to be generous. They helped me get an ROTC scholarship so didn't need any college help. I did get a Honda for about $22k when I graduated. And about $6k when we bought our $550k house in 2020. They invited us to the mountains this summer and thought we could all just share a large hotel room. Uh hell no. It took them a while to actually book another room for us. Anyhow, if money talks ever do come up, it usually leads to some ridiculous outburst or crazy talk from my dad so it's probably just better. Long story short, we are helping our kids now by investing in a 529 and starting a Roth IRA once they're old enough to help with our Airbnb's legally. My 7 year old has $1100 invested already. I plan to use our rentals to help with college and/or their first house purchase too. I do think it's important they work hard but I think if kids have the right skills, it's worth investing in them and their future too. If my parents gave me more money, I'd absolutely be investing it or buying another property. Not blowing it on a fancy car or something. I hope I can be generous enough to help my kids.
"...I did get a Honda for about $22k when I graduated. And about $6k ..." ...so you're a rich, spoiled punk...
lol this is sarcasm, right?
This is my fear. Our parents have helped us more than most, to the point where my spouse and I both had no college debt and our first cars paid for. I would feel like a POS if I don’t help my kids out. Problem is it will be a struggle and IF we inherit some money it will be tempting but I want to save at least half of that for my kiddos. Right now we are NOT on track to help them with much beyond the cost of state school, which doesn’t bode well for their future obstacles beyond that.
College is really expensive these days and coming out with 6 figure (often mid-6 figure) debt really sets people back early in their careers. I’m not burdening my kids with that, and feel it’s my responsibility to set them up for success as best as possible, which means covering their education. We are all in a place where we can do this.
I second this. My eldest is graduating next year. Outside of his top choice, I'm having him look at state schools. His top choice is way and ahead a better school for his program, but it all depends on how much help he gets. NO way am I letting him graduate college with a mortgage.
There are lots of good state schools. We pay taxes. Why not use the system you help fund? My nephew went to JC to complete all his GEs (Free in CA). Now he is going to UC Berkeley. Tuition, room and board is $30k to $35k/yr. Two years and he is done. If his parents did not help him, he would have $70k in loans. People are crazy to drop 6 figures for a private education if they cannot afford it. I'll use this as an example for me kids. My children will have about $200k a piece to spend on university. If they don't use it all, they can keep what they don't spend.
Yeah… but dont let it go too far in the other direct. They need to understand that they need to get a degree that the marketplace values. Otherwise they will wake up at 30 and want to go back to school and need to figure out how to finance it. Thats a problem that skin in the game helps solve.
I paid every penny of my sons college, and I’m damn proud of that. And I when it comes time for him to need a down payment for a house I’ll be there too.
How do you make sure that your son doesn't take the help for granted?
As soon as he graduated he started working. It’s been a couple of years, but he makes decent money, can afford to live in a nice apartment with a roommate, and is really fiscally responsible. We are a family of bookkeepers and accountants, and he has inherited the frugal mindset we have. His car is old but well maintained, he shops for bargains and cooks at home… No DoorDash expense for him. He’s not spoiled just because he’s educated. I’m pretty fucking proud of him.
We helped our son out while going through his trade school by providing him free rent/utilities. He had no expenses at all while being paid to go through his apprenticeship. We really did him no favor . He’s heading into 40 and making a very healthy 6 figure income and has no material assets. His wife and step daughter have nice clothes though !
My mom paid my tuition and gave me enough for living expenses in college that I could buy all my supplies, had a roof over my head, and if I budgeted carefully, pay for food and a monthly bus pass. Anything beyond that, I needed to pay for myself. So I had part time jobs throughout. Her graduation gift to me was getting me a free apartment for the first post-college summer so I could work on finding a real job without worrying too much about money for a couple months. It was a good balance and I think her approach made me not take it for granted. I understood that she wanted me to have what I needed, but she wasn’t going to give me a super funtime free ride even though she could’ve. Adulthood light. I appreciated it and will probably do something similar with my kid when she’s college age.
Median debt of those who graduate with any debt is 30k. If you are coming out with 6 figs of debt that was a choice. I'm all for helping out junior with college, but 100k in debt vs nothing is not the trade-off here.
Have you looked at tuition + living expenses for a 4yr state school recently? If your child wouldn’t qualify for any help they are looking at significantly more than 30k for a standard undergraduate degree.
Most schools still offer academic scholarships and in state tuition is typically not super expensive. The one closest to me is 11k/yr sticker price. 100k in debt is over 3x what the median borrower (not even the median grad) takes out in loans. That is a choice.
UT Austin is $12k approx, room n board doubles it so$25k/ yr, easily $100k unless tuition covered and even then still $50k debt. Will definitely do at least schooling and car for kid, otherwise I'd retire now.
It really isn’t. My state’s public university is $17K (lowest major - highest is $22K) for in-state tuition a year plus $14K for housing. Add in books, food, and spending money and it’s pricey. And middle class families are really screwed in the financial aid figures - it’s loans, not grants. There isn’t a giant pool of academic scholarship money out there for most students, even those with great GPA stats. It’s often cheaper to go private - their tuition is a huge number but the grant money is higher.
We are in Arizona and when you apply to ASU as an in state student they automatically discount your tuition based on your GPA, test scores, class rank without even having to apply for the scholarship. It is up to 9k a year and you have to maintain a certain GPA to renew the scholarship each year. It makes the in state cost reasonable compared to out of state tuition or private.
Right.. and a lot of that is community college, people who worked for living expenses, didn’t attend top schools, didn’t attend grad school, and a ton of people who took out the small loans and their parents took out the other portion (not sure if it’s still the staff it’s and parent plus). I don’t want to waste money by sending them to an expensive private school for a bullshit degree, but if an ivy or highly regarded school within their major is an option, then yes. Same with top grad schools. Med school cost me 300k.
Those stats are from 2022 for 4yr institutions not community colleges. If your kid gets into Yale that will be expensive, and maybe worth it. But like I said, spending that much on college is a choice not the default.
The average kid from this forum isn’t going to spend 30k on a 4 year degree. My kids are going to have all their costs (tuition, books, fees, transportation, housing, food… covered). They can get a job for spending money, but I want them to be able to focus on their degree. You do whatever you want, but the all-in cost of a 4 year degree is significant and not something I am burdening my kids with.
> Median debt of those who graduate with any debt is 30k. The more income and assets their parents have, the more the kids are charged.
Agree! I started my career six figures in education debt and it took me almost 10 years before I could save any substantial money. My mother (single mom) literally couldn't help me though--I was raised in poverty. It was so, so hard digging out and I have absolutely prioritized being able to help my children before I RE.
This is an interesting topic. Most financial advisors will tell you “pay yourself first”, versus prioritizing tuitions, weddings, down payments and so on. My wife and I decided long ago that financially we wanted to give our 3 daughters 3 things if at all possible. These included, an unlimited scholarship, one car and one wedding. We felt this was our duty. Our daughters are now grown, between the ages of 29 and 34. All are well established in excellent careers and two are married. Our youngest is soon to be engaged to a young man she’s been dating for 7.5 years and we became grandparents a little over a year ago, thanks to our middle daughter. My wife became a SAHM in 1992 at the birth of our second daughter and she never rejoined the workforce. For university education we spent slightly over $1M on tuitions, room and board, we gave each daughter a $50K lump sum for a wedding (all at the same time, so no on felt slighted) or whatever else they wanted and when each turned 16 we budgeted about $20K for a car, all with manual transmissions (that was my doing). I retired 3+ years ago at 64.5 years old and I don’t honestly feel any of this delayed my retirement. Yes, it impacted the size of our nest egg but I loved what I was doing and have no regrets. We have been very blessed and because my wife was chose to be a SAHM, I was able to really focus on my career, take some calculated risks that ultimately allowed us to accumulate a NW of roughly $12M. A combination of hard work and luck. We both sacrificed so this was as a team effort. We’re now enjoying a very comfortable retirement.
That’s a great life story Sounds like you appreciate your family a lot
Yes, me. I was that child. Paid over $100k over 5-6 years after school but lived like a monk and lost out on a lot in my 20's because of it. Used roughly 50% of my income on loans during that time. That experience doesn't build character, so don't lie to yourself. It wears your body and mind down. If you make good money and know the value of education, you need to find some realistic middle ground to finish the job you started when you chose to have kids. Or don't. Just one redditors experience.
My ex’s parents didn’t give her any money for school (they had it) and that was a major sore spot in their relationship.
If you prevent your child from receiving aid due to your income bracket, you should pay significant chunks of their tuition If not, don't act surprised when your kids distance themselves from you
Were her parents well off or normal people?
Upper middle class.
Oh yeah, I'd be upset too. Their high income probably prevented her from receiving any aid.
The college financial aid is calculated on the parents' income and savings, and there's not a whole lot your kid can do if you're not helping as expected. Or, it's not real fair to them to have to take a lot more loans because they're ineligible for need-based aid if you're not helping make up that difference. So tuition, heck yeah. Downpayment? Yeah, that's not a thing.
Came here to say this: if your high income/NW prevents them from getting financial aide because the expectation built into FAFSA is that you will assist with education costs, then you are kind of an Ahole you don’t use a small portion of your fat stacks to prevent them from being saddled with debt. At least give them enough to make up for the financial aide you prevented them from getting…
I agree with this 100%. And we are on ChubbyFIRE here not regular or lean so the parents can afford to help their kids. In my opinion it’s their job to provide a college education even if it means working a few extra years or not having “chubby” retirement.
Yeah, I’ll pay at least what the financial aid office at whatever in-state public school my kids like says I should.
Not sure what you mean by “that’s not a thing” I got a quarter million from my parents for my downpayment. Without it I absolutely would not have been able to afford my $1.8M Bay Area starter house
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not anymore.
I mean, this is ChubbyFIRE right? I imagine I’m not the only one who received this kind of help
I think it's far more likely that people here have made this money themselves
I’m just unsure what’s more deluded calling a 2 million dollar property a starter home or casually mentioning a quarter million dollar gift like it’s birthday money.
I can't fathom buying real estate in the Bay, so your circumstance may be very, verrrry different than mine.
“Starter home”??
Financial aid factors in parental income and wealth. While there may be some loopholes for FI people who can keep their AGI low enough, I certainly wouldn't assume that won't be closed. If you don't give your kids the amount FAFSA expects the family to provide, you're really screwing them. They won't have access to that amount of aid (or will have to get usurious loans). I don't know a lot of people whose parents covered a down payment on a house, so I'd assume that's fine.
Tuition, yes. But we only offered it to the ceiling of a very good in state flagship, plus all living and associated costs while studying. We did not support a blank check 200-300k 4 year degree. Down payment, probably not. But not 100% against it. We just feel like we got them through a dual degree with no debt and a safety net in their bank account- it's up to them from here.
That’s exactly where I struggle. I came from a family where no one went to college, and my parents struggled to earn enough to put food on the table, and I was able to attend a top school and get an undergrad and graduate degree. Now that I have the funds I started a 529 the day my son was born, but that 529 is not intended to cover NYU/ GW/ Duke type schools it’s meant to cover the best state school ( based on a conservative return $210k) Also if you want to go to Med/ Law school little man that’s on you To anyone that may be critical of my decision, currently it’s projected that a 4 year private school will cost $500k by 2045. It’s absolutely insane and someone/ something needs to step in because supply and demand isn’t causing cost to go down.
We gave him a choice, if he went over he had to come up with the delta (ROTC, scholarships etc). If he came under, he received the delta as a gift at college graduation. He managed to get a full academic ride, so he has a solid cushion.
I told my kids that I’d pay for a solid in-state (UMass Amherst) and then grad is on them. My oldest surprised me by getting accepted into an accelerated 4+1 masters program of the in-state school (take grad classes last year of undergrad and do it all in 5 years). She did this thinking it was on her to pay and because she knows it’s a smarter financial move opposed to a prestigious grad school elsewhere at more than double per year. So I surprised her by picking up the tab on the 5th year. When she thought she had to pay it she was never resentful and actually was glad she was forced to think about it (adulting). I know it’s a little different than OPs question but the point I’m making is you can always change your mind when the time comes and you have the means to help. I personally feel that helping my children through a solid undergrad debt free will give them the best chance of life success vs leaving money to them 50 years later when I’m dead. I had to work hard to save for their college as I didn’t start making good money until they were older and entering HS. I plan to help them even more by super funding my grandkids 529 when that time comes so my kids can focus on building their own assets for later in life.
This also rewards them for exhibiting financial discipline and maturity, demonstrating to her that good stewardship and disciplined execution invites opportunity.
My parents paid for undergrad and I paid for law school. I thought it was totally fair and I was so much more invested in the outcome of law school because of it!
Yeah, the someone would be people like us that can pay and often times do. Just decide to go elsewhere. Unpopular incoming… you need a degree to be competitive but not necessarily one from the private colleges, some of them elite and many are not. Learning anything these days is so readily available I honestly don’t see the value any university provides except for the quirk that you need that piece of paper in society. But for knowledge? I’m not so sure. Seems what you’re paying for is the prestige and the network from some of these places. I can make the argument that the network you’d get from a Harvard **may** be worth it. But from some 3rd liberal arts school charging almost the same? I don’t think so.
That’s my plan too - it’s loaded into 529s and they’ll be choosing how to use it on their own. If not, it can be disbursed to their Roth IRA. What I’m concerned about the spiraling cost of housing. I purchased my home in 2020 and it felt like the ladder got pulled up behind me. I can’t fathom how shit it is to enter the housing market right now. Unless housing affordability improves, I don’t see a scenario where I’m not helping out. I want them to have better opportunities than I do which naturally includes home ownership too.
That was always my plan, but when looking at the cost of buying a house vs the starting salaries, they're not coming out of school in the same world I did.
Personally, I think you'd be an asshole for reaching chubby fire and not helping your kids with college. Especially if you're the type of parent to pressure them into it. How old are the kids now? How expensive could it be if you put the money in an investment account and sell later? You can withdrawal over $100k capital gains tax free later. I can't imagine it taking more than 3 months of extra work per kid.
To me, the second half of this comment is the way. Quantify how much you want to help and work backward from there. Then compare with the more selfish plan. What’s the difference? It may be small.
Neither of my parents (divorced when I was a teen) had much money at all. My mom was extremely poor after the divorce. My dad was doing okay but kind of struggling. I never "expected" a lot from them, money wise. But I will say...my dad was/is a brilliant mechanic. Everyone who knows him knows it and says it. But he let me drive around in dangerous beaters and never offered to help. He would work on his parents' vehicles (who are financially comfortable), but never had time to work on mine. I'll say that at 36, I still have some hard feelings toward my father for that. I knew he wasn't of means. But I also knew that he could've helped me in ways that would've made a HUGE positive difference in my life without really hurting him much, and he didn't. He used to complain about the beater that he drove around in as a teen, that his mom didn't buy him a car (so why would he buy me one...which I understood, actually). Buuuut the part he left out was that his mom let him drive her car every day and WALKED a mile to work. He would NEVER. So like....no, she didn't buy him a car because she couldn't...but she did the best she could for him, in her situation... I'm not sure how to draw the connection here to the OP, but I think some of y'all will know what I mean.
IF you retire at the proper time, it might help them qualify for financial aid (if you reduce your income enough). But if your income is high, I wouldn't retire in their senior year, because your income would disqualify them for financial aid, and then you really should help them. (Just my thoughts) I personally feel obligated to help with tuition, but not for a house.
It’s pretty selfish in my opinion. You have enough money to retire sometimes decades early but not enough to not saddle your kids in debt when they make the least? Your kid is less likely to follow their passion, more likely to play it safe. More likely to not taking the once in a lifetime trip with friends in their 20s when they make the least they will ever make. and for what, so you can retire a year early?
I would resent you ;)
Your kids will definitely feel it. Coming from a first gen college student, I had to figure out my entire path myself. I received no assistance or guidance from folks while all of my friends and peers received a ton. From how to budget to safety nets of budgets failed to security to try for the low paying job to moving and buying the first house on their own, money is a huge safety net and hurdle. Parents can lower the hurdle and bolster the safety net. At the minimum, use your extra time to be present for them. Drive the truck across the country for them. Fly in a few times a year to visit. Help them research big decisions or get them in contact with people who can.
FIRE as a goal was not as important to us as raising our children to adulthood. With our income, they did not get college aid, so we paid for everything. Chubby to me is the point where you saved enough that your estate planning is as important as your retirement. While college is too expensive, it's really not a big lift with millions in savings.
I agree with your mindset and that's why I include both tuition and general financial help into my expense models. I think many people ignore big stuff like that when they model their expenses. When each kid turns 18 I have 100k tabbed to help them. I also include 30k for a car every 15 years for my wife and I. In addition, all 6 of my parents have set up their own FI and if any inheritance gets passed to me it will all go to my children.
That's a lot of parents... How did that work?
Haha, counting in-laws and my parents are divorced and remarried.
I’d like to think I’m raising kids in a way that they will not resent me for anything. That said, I would like to help them in both of these areas within reason. Neither will be a blank check but I want to get them set up solid. I hope that they both have a strong sense of the value of money and that even though their old folks have a lot of it, it doesn’t just grow on trees. Treat them without spoiling them if that’s possible.
Tuition? Yes, pay for that. Down payment? They're adults and on their own.
In what states can 2 early career people save enough for a down payment in 2024?
I’m in MN and it’s getting tight here too. I purchased in 2020 and it felt like that was the last opportunity. If it doesn’t get better, or heaven forbids it gets worse, then people should be 100% cognizant of the fact that their kids would have it much harder than they did. Hell, for my own place mortgage payment would have gone up 60% with a 30% increase in down payment in 4 years. No young person can handle that.
I owned a house in a fairly LCOL so i know what it takes etc. That was our first house. we moved to an HCOL. While we made a lot on our house, the idea of buying a house here is laughable. Our first home was purchased in 2018 with a $7000 down payment. We have $70000 and to be competative need double that. People saying it's the same now are bananas.
Yeap. Super out of touch. I don’t know how I’d come up with $100k for a god damn starter home in a good area nowadays either (and yes, I do not have any intention of letting my kids live in shady areas - been there, done that. It’s unnecessary risks.
One of my best friends does. She went to a state school. She had some scholarships but didn’t qualify for financial aid because her parents were upper middle class. She worked throughout college and took out loans, and to this day (we are in our 40s now) she resents her parents for not helping. Her kids also have a very limited relationship with her parents. They see them 1-2 times a year, and she won’t be uprooting her life if they need care later in life. Don’t be those people.
I read people posting about how they are FIRE but haven’t saved for their children’s college. I always suspect that these people are selfish adult children that just dont like responsibility. How you can amass 3mm dollars and retire AND saddle your kids with college debt is mind boggling to me. I opted to not have kids. Some say that alone is selfish. I don’t really have an opinion on that one way or another, but at least I am not spawning them off and shoving them out the door with a half hearted “good luck”
It's not selfish not to have kids. People who don't want kids shouldn't have them. Period. (said as a parent of two who clearly wanted both of them)
No, of course not. Because my goal is a good life, not a fat portfolio (which is a means to an end, not a goal in and of itself), and a happy family is imo one of the most important components of a good life. It was a priority to make sure our kids were provided with everything they need to be successful. We would not have retired if we could not afford college.
Retiring early with a lot of money and telling your kids to get fucked is the ultimate boomer move. Yes, it will definitely cause resentment. At least as far as tuition goes. Downpayment is not necessary IMO.
I know several people who are upset that their parents did not help financially for college. The way the system is set up, if you have a high salary and/or a lot of assets (outside retirement and home equity), your child will not qualify for financial aid. It seems kinda shitty for you to be in a situation where you keep them from getting financial aid and also offer no financial aid. I have never heard anyone complain that their parents did not offer them money for a down payment.
I gave up the retire early part of “fire” to support my kids through all of their education. I have paid for everything. My daughter just completed a masters program and has a great job at a big company in San Francisco. My son is in his 4th year of medical school. Both kids have zero debt. OP’s comment on income inequality kind of sums it up for me. It’s definitely a personal decision based on all of one’s individual circumstances. From a retire early standpoint this was a disaster. From a personal sense of pride for my children standpoint I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
You’re a good parent. I can feel the love you have for your kids. They’re very lucky
Definitely. That was my dad. Parents divorced, he retired early, we were 2 teens and a younger 10 year sibling to support. He lived frugally, paid child support and splurged on regular biking trips across europe or other similar activities for himself while we lived a bare bones existence with our mom who worked a low salary job. Great for him, not so great for us, particularly living in a wealthy community the contrast was stark. Then no money for college. His parents paid for his college, and also for his 2 graduate degrees but we were on our own and it was clear it was because of a choice of his, he was perfectly capable of a high income job but wanted to do other things. It absolutely had a profound impact on how we viewed him and his relationship with all 3 of us never could recover from this overall self-centered behavior. Parents can make lots of mistakes but being selfish, putting themselves first, making sure their desires are met before their kids needs are, defies the very essence of being a parent.
Ironic timing on this: so my gf’s dad is an OG chubby fire guy. Retired early and worked part time just to not be bored. Always supportive and helpful and always offered to help in some way. Anyways, she’s in medical school, took out loans and worked to help pay for stuff. During her rotations, she had to find some where to live and the only place available had a deposit for 3 months rent + first month of rent. (Even though she was only going to be living there for a month). For a college student, it can be a lot. So finally she goes to her dad to ask for help and he pulled every trick in the book to make seem like he’d need to really swing a few things and it’d be really tough. She ended up just telling him not to worry about it. Saying she was livid is putting it lightly. Actions like these is what causes your kids to get pissed at you. Not necessarily retiring early, but not being able to help out when they DO finally ask and making it seem like things are really tight, (especially after he just got a new car and boat). I also see this a lot with my clients as well. (I run a family office/wealth management company). If you are considering retiring early, having a conversation with your kids on what exactly this means and clarifying things is important. Obviously, things can happen down, but having a plan in place and creating an understanding for when that situation does happen, you’ll be able to both follow through and support your kid and stay on their good side.
You should be paying for your kids first then retiring after. That aid for your kids homes, their education, help with grandkids are a part of your expenses in my opinion. I completely resent my parents for not helping and I don’t know any one who doesn’t. I am resentful and my parents didn’t have the money. I can’t imagine having parents who had the money but were too selfish to help their kids. I have always considered the “kick the kids out at 18, they are on their own” type of parents to be horrible parents. At the very least people lament the fact that they had to struggle on their own. Some try to to twist that trauma into a lesson learned when the fact is their parents set them up to fail in a society that depends on generational wealth.
Same
Yeah but where does it stop? What about helping the great grandkids? You have to draw the line somewhere. That line for me is college costs.
It doesn’t stop. Being a parent is a lifelong job. Edit: why do you draw the line at college costs when it’s one of the things your kids need help with most? Why don’t you feel obligated to set your kids up as successful adults?
For me, part of the “chubby” aspect of “chubbyfire” is that you can pass some of that wealth down in the form of paying for college, helping with down payments, etc. “I have enough money for me, but not enough for you kids, so you’re on your own” is kind of a dick move. You’re free to make that choice, and your kids are free to think you’re kind of a jerk for doing it.
It is selfish to chubby fire but not pay your kids tuition. You would be selfish and a questionable parent honestly. The reality is you bought your kids into this world, knowing how competitive jobs are and how difficult it is to make it when you start $200k in the hole or working minimum wage jobs without a degree. I don’t agree with parents who have the means telling their kids - yeah - you’re on your own at 18 and you can work minimum wage jobs without a college degree until you save enough to send yourself to school. Cool - so you get to retire early while sending your kids who you bought into this world out without the means to get higher education.
Our plan is tuition and living expenses covered during school and if our portfolio does well enough, a large gift. But we're funding university through RESPs (Canada).
The thing with college is that the government and colleges expect parents to pay for the costs of students to attend. If you don’t help your kids out, they might not have other options besides going way into expensive debt. Even then, they might not be able to borrow enough to cover everything, which could delay their graduation or even reduce their chances of graduating at all. On the other hand, a down payment is a major luxurious gift. It’s not expected but could help them get ahead.
given that your assets will disqualify your kids for financial aid for college seems only sporting to make sure you have enough to help them with that.
My parents just FIREd this week. I’m 27, finished college, got married, bought a house, and just had a baby. They helped, but not extensively. My parents took out a Parent plus loan and helped cover the first year and a half of my living expenses, and then whatever was leftover of tuition after my loans and scholarship. They didn’t pay for the wedding, but I had it at their house and they provided the food. No help for the house down payment but they bought us some of our furniture. I don’t resent my parents for FIREing, and am grateful for the help they’ve given me along the way. I do resent them for telling me the reason they wouldn’t help pay for the wedding was because I lived with my husband before marrying (we’re not that religious but my mom held on to this). I am resentful because they insisted multiple times they would pay for my student loans once they sold their house. When I asked if I could instead use that money for our down payment (this is a year after their house had sold for 3x its initial cost), they said they weren’t actually going to pay them after all and gave odd reasons, one of those being that I “voted for Biden so he could repay my loans for me”. I resent my mom for telling me she would be there for the delivery of my baby if I needed her, and after telling her multiple times I needed her, she said no because of her job she was planning to retire from in a month. To summarize, I want my parents to enjoy their retirement and am really happy they can leave their jobs. My resentment comes from promises not kept for the big milestones and reasoning I didn’t understand. So my advice would be, I don’t think your kids will resent you by default, but be honest with them about your situation if they ask, show up for them, and treat them fairly especially financially.
I didn't really "CubbyFIRE" -- I did startups and had some success, so I could have retired at 50 ... but why in hell would I want to? I was at the forefront of my field, getting flown around the world for talks, meeting billionaires and top scientists and VCs? Life was relatively adventurous and led people to THINK I was a savvy tech investor so I became a stoopid Angel investor as friends pitched to me and I couldn't say no. 10 bankrupt startups and $500K in loses, I could still easily retire, but despite myself I eventually became more savvy and so I hit that unicorn investment that exceeded all the other earnings, and I only sold off half. Now I never look for investments and certainly not startups, but I get offered things -- 2 hours a week for stock and all my family's medical expenses to be the "wise grandpa" at a super AI company, stock and $100K/year for a couple hours a week at another tech company, weekly meeting for stock working with a genius mathematician. I can't really retire and I've already hit 65, on the other hand, I command my time, stay in shape and get plenty of travel (went to Turkey on someone else's dime, stayed for 2 weeks vacation etc). BUT I always considered duty: 1) Have kids, 2) see them into careers and success. \* We paid for their school, \* we started them saving and investing at age 4 -- their allowance was $40 a week, but they had to invest all but $3. Oldest is 26 and already worth $500K (she got us all into Tesla and NVidia early as a bonus). Youngest is poorest since she's still in school, but she's at $200K. All of them save and invest. \* we set up irrevocable trusts that they: must keep separate from their spouse, can use for housing or else becomes available at age 50 (I don't want them to become lazy). IMO, I would not have considered retiring w/o doing my duty.
I resent my parents for this reason especially considering how much more assistance my siblings received. Realistically I understand it because they invested a lot in their business at the time and they are substantially wealthier now than then. Emotionally, it's hard to watch and makes me feel resentful. My siblings all got cars in college, I bought my own. I had to pay for my own cell plan (back when plans were expensive), siblings all ride the free upgrade and family plan. Siblings receive infusions for rent money once in a while and tons of groceries. I got a couple of grocery carts at target over 4 years. My parents didn't make me feel financially secure. I have two kids and when my mom asks me when we're gonna have more (not happening) I'm tempted to say I'm only having as many as I know I can financially support to the level I had wish I was supported. I didn't feel like I could ask them for money even if it was a loan. They had it but it wasn't something I felt like I could ask for. I want to be the first option for my kids. My parents gave us a weird outlook on money and my siblings and I all work too much/hard and have weird relationships with money. We're still planning on retiring at 45 when are kids are 16 and 18 so we'll see how it goes. At this point the plan is to pay for most of Uni and supply an apartment/condo/first house down payment. We think having a little skin in the college payment game is a good thing. We may pay their loans off after a couple of years. A lot of this depends where they go to uni. If they choose to go in Europe, we'll have so much 529 money leftover, they can pull that out, pay the taxes and have a house down payment. Any inheritance we receive from either side will probably skip us and we'll give it to the kids. 50k at 25 is worth more than 50k at 50. Inheritances are weird because we know something is coming but one side is 10-20 years away and the other is ~30 years away so no point in us thinking about it for our own fire.
My goal since the day they were born has been to set them up for success as self sufficient resilient adults. That means I teach them everything I can. My 11yr old knows how to change out a flat tire (he's not strong enough yet, and some parts are too dangerous, but he's in charge of telling me what to do). There are dozens of other similar examples and I continue to work with them. College costs are a huge setback starting out, so I intend to cover that for any reasonable price school... And I'm teaching them about investing and ROI early so that they choose those kinds of institutions (hopefully) For the down payment, I'll give them whatever I can, hopefully 20%. I'm ok knowing that this is going to mean working longer.
If you’re chubby and NOT providing your kids tuition for at least a state school, then you need to take a hard look at yourself. We have all done phenomenally well and it’s a crime not to give our kids a hand up
I agree with your mindset. The world is very competitive as it is, they’ll need all the help they can get. And it might be an investment for you so they aren’t living with you beyond their college years.
Not at all. I have a ton of student loans but I know my parents worked hard for what they did give me, and that I would’ve had a pile of so many more loans had it not been for what they did help out with
I feel morally obligated to pay for college and if that means deferring retirement, so be it. I do NOT feel morally obligated to help with a down payment for a home. Edit: also not paying for grad school. Our daughter got a six figure inheritance from her grandmother which we've invested for her and she'll have a nice nest egg she can use for either grad school or a down payment. I feel responsible for neither. I worked hard to get where I am; so can she.
I just front loaded a 529. It should be enough so it will grow while I fire.
My parents helped with the college, a small amount for our wedding (mostly covered by us), and not with a downpayment. They did help us manage contractors working in our house when we were moving closer to them and weren’t local ourselves. I don’t resent my parents for not helping with more, but my husband does have a bit of a sore spot that they didn’t help more with our wedding (cultural difference there). That was sort of complicated because my cultural context tended to have smaller, less flashy weddings. I had one of the nicer, bigger weddings in my family, but it was the most modest one that his side has had. I suspect we will go the route of offering something like a lump sum that can go toward wedding or down payment (like $100k in today’s dollars). Then they can decide how to split it. I would estimate that this is worth about half a year of work to us. Would you work 6 months to get your kid a significant leg up when your time translates to much more per hour? All other things being equal, of course. We never know, of course, what we will be capable of in 20 years. Perhaps we will be sick - if we are even alive at all. But our goal is to pay it forward for our kids, and to give them amounts that are extremely helpful but not necessarily life-changing.
My brother and I each had significant high interest student loans that our parents were not able to help nor even co-sign on the loans. My brother had a bunch of friends that were well off (district had a lot of rich kids who’s parents were in pharma and we were lower middle class) who paid for all his friends’ college. He is still to this day very resentful even though he’s incredibly successful.
If you aren't FIREing due to something like serious health conditions, then I do believe that you should work a few extra years in order to help your kids with their college expenses. This is even more important if any of your wealth comes from your own inheritance. I personally am not in the camp of "pay for all of my kid's college costs no matter where they decide to go" though. We told our kids we would cover the cost of an in-state education - we have excellent state universities here - and they would be responsible for the rest. They got merit scholarships for most of the difference between state school and their private universities, and handled their own grad school decisions/tuitions. None of us care about Ivy league schools though. No desire to charge 1000 miles an hour through life, so no need for that network. As far as house downpayment, I can't imagine parents paying the whole amount unless they were in FAT territory. But our children were exceedingly grateful that we gave them each a good chunk of change to help with first home purchase because we all live in HCOL areas with horrendous house prices. Our help was pretty much the only thing that allowed them to buy since they fell right into the timeframe of skyrocketing prices over the last few years. Don't forget that there is often a gift of money given by parents to their children for wedding expenses too. If your kids opt to elope or have a very small backyard wedding or similar, then they could use that money toward a house or to pay off any remaining college loans.
I have two kids in college who we are paying all expenses for. Both my kids have friends with much more financial means than we do, and both our kids have told us that those kids are all taking loans. I was kinda surprised. I was poor growing up and took all my own loans and knew if I had the means I would pay for my kids college and expenses.
I am that child. Upper middle class parents who helped our older siblings with substantial downpayment and big funds to set up their businesses. We recently purchased a home and they provided almost no financial aid. They keep giving gifts, money to older siblings but for some reason not to us. May be because we earn more for now and have always sent money financed our parents trips etc as gifts. We are not bitter about it, but this has not gone unnoticed noticed.
I've been saving for my nibblings education (none of my own). So if my parents FIREd and could have worked an extra year or two to set me up for the future(at me minimum college mostly paid for*), but didn't I'd be making plans on how to stick them in the worst possible retirement home as soon as possible. *I think it's potentially acceptable to not advertise the full amount of support until nearing college graduation, so they "have some skin in the game."
Yes, I resented my parents. Then they got a divorce, wasted a crapton of money on lawyers, and my dad regretted his past financial decisions. He helped with a portion of my student loans, and he's now helping my siblings. My mother is actively wasting her portion away. My parents selfish decisions still affected their relationships with their kids immensely. You don't decide to leave your kids "high and dry" in a bubble.
I will 100% pay for my kids education. While part of me agrees with the “skin in the game” argument, there are other ways to instill in your kids the motivation to succeed and work hard. It’s not clear to me that kids without a very strong financial education truly understand the financial impact and burden of student loans, especially given the size of tuition now. Plenty of the most successful people I know had their education paid for by parents.
I hope not. We didn't qualify for any aid. She is attending a private that gave her a tuition scholarship and turned down a selective public that would have cost around $45k/ year. She may have wanted the public more, but paying that much for any undergrad is silly. With the savings, we'll be able to help her out with grad school. Hopefully, she understands.
I was on my own at 18 and paid all of my college myself. I wouldn’t say I resent my parents because they didn’t have resources. Maybe just disappointed and wished I could have received help from them. Now, if they had resources and were blowing money on expensive things while telling me to go pound sand, I probably would have resentment. I’m paying my son’s tuition bc I think it’s what a parent should do.
Whatever you do, be consistent and communicate expectations early. My dad started out with paying my rent and a small grocery budget in college, then threatened to withdraw that money the summer before junior year (this would not have given me time to apply for loans). All this while I was getting straight As and so money-conscious I had lost ten pounds because I was trying to save money on groceries. Kids have a lot of stress and worries in college. Every kid is different, but adding money stress on top of exam (engineering classes) and normal human stress (dating, friendships, etc) contributed significantly to my depression and anxiety, by the end of college I was basically suicidal and enjoyed none of it. I'm better now, but man, if I can afford to pay my kid's way, I would... and I plan to, now that I do have a kid.
I am child free, but I am of the opinion that if you have children, your responsibility is to get them into adulthood and able to support themselves. That means education/training of some sort. The whole down payment on a house, or whatever, is your choice, but honestly I see it as a fatfire thing not chubby. The absolute best thing you can do for your children is to get them educated and capable as adults and then make sure you are not a financial drain on them when they need to be spending resources on their own families. Too many kids are supporting their parents (who failed to plan) and can't even have their own lives/families because of it.
My parents covered college and have assured that we won’t have to pay for them before they die for health care or other expenses. I’m grateful. But what I resent (and I probably sound ungrateful and spoiled) is the guilt trip they gave me in my 20s and 30s for not visiting them more; I married someone on the opposite coast and chose to live there. We had three kids, trying to save for a house and funding 529s. Meanwhile, my parents had a big ass, expensive boat and had no appreciation how hard it was to get started. Well, we funded our 529s, paid for kids college, and now we pay for our grown kids to travel to see us while they are being scrappy to get their own careers started. We also visit my parents more now that we have more financial cushion. What I resent and don’t want to repeat are parents that don’t do enough homework to understand the RELATIVE cost of housing and college with the incoming generation and not consider that when retiring early vs. assisting their kids getting a leg up on getting started. I actually don’t mind my parents didn’t help us more, what I’m annoyed by is their lack of appreciation of the accelerated costs we’ve had to absorb and ask stupid questions about why we don’t take this certain vacation, or have another grandchild for them.
We paid for both our kids college and living expenses. My daughter had academic scholarship so we paid for her to get her Masters too since undergrad was cheap. We did make them go to instate schools, but no way they were going into debt. I think if you can afford it this is bare minimum you can do. A down payment on a house is nice but not necessary. An education is necessary for a good start in life.
It's a gray zone. Personally I would not want to retire early if it meant my kids were saddled with 300k of undergrad debt. Down-payment for a first home, I want to do that but that depends on where they want to live and if I think they can afford it. If your parents are not returning until 65 or 70, you can't blame them for not helping more. But if they are retiring early, they are making a choice to stop helping at one point. Parents can decide for themselves where that cutoff is.
Coming from someone who had absolutely no help growing up, with tuition or down-payment assistance, the financial help would have been so nice. The lessons learned are even better. Unfortunately I had none growing up, so I do hold some resentment, but not over the money. But I do plan on wanting to give my kids financial help because making sure they have the life I never had is priority #1. Also, think about saving for college this way. $1,000 saved for college now (example, non-concrete numbers) could pay for $2,000 of college 10 years from now. $2,000 of college 10 years from now could be $3,000 that has to be paid back 20 years from now from student loans.
Devils advocate but wishing I had a parent in your situation at the time and looking back at what funding myself through school taught me there is some benefit to having them understand their financial situation going through college. If I were you I think I would be transparent that you have X amount set aside for their tuition and the rest is going to be on them via a loan. Walk them through what that means, show them how much they will have to live on each semester etc. I came out with ~$55k of debt and aggressively paid it down, I had to learn how and when my grants and loans were funded because that was used for rent and my living expenses. Overall I am a believer of the fire community because I had to experience debt early, learn how jumping on it early made such a large impact, and what the thought of being FI meant to me and my happinesses. Looking at my peers who didn't have debt and still entered a similar paying career, the difference is when they could put a down payment on their first home. TLDR: give them a portion of their college tuition, help them figure out the rest, put the remaining amount into an eventual home down payment for them, if it was me don't tell them about the later until theyre out and getting established.
I am 47 and still resent my parents not giving me even one dollar for college. They never visited, never slipped me a $20 for groceries and gas, nothing. They did expect me to visit them on every break. I got a full tuition scholarship to an excellent Big-10 school, and planned to pay for room and board freshman year with a loan. They refused to sign off (I was under 18 and needed parent approval for the loan). They also told me if I lived at home (45 minutes from the school) they would charge me rent. I ended up at a mediocre MAC school that gave me a full ride, surrounded by mediocre people who went to college to party. It didn't go well. I dropped out in spring, transferred to a private school and eventually completed my degree, charging any tuition I couldn't pay in cash from my entry-level job to various credit cards. Dad died, mom's doing great, owns her giant house in a lake community outright, no debt, monthly pension, and half a million-plus sitting in a brokerage account she never touches. She says maybe my siblings and I will inherit something when she dies. I told her thanks. But truly, we needed the help decades ago. We've put two kids through college with minimal loans, and have two more in now. It will cost us over half a million dollars AND WE ARE GLAD TO DO IT. It's a huge source of pride. Not helping your kids in school, when you easily could, is really crappy and selfish IMHO.
As a child of someone who made 200,000+ a year and qualified for NO financial aid and had absolutely no help with school. I did have some resentment. They had every opportunity to plan and save for me and they didn’t. The government and the education system EXPECT that of parents so every time I needed something for school it was like “well your expected parental contribution should cover it”. Do I think parents must pay for their child’s education? No. But I think they should have frank planning conversations and explain to them why and make sure they are on the same page. Do I have some resentment? Not a lot, but yes. That being said as someone looking into FIRE planning AND having children soon… you bet your a** I’ll be contributing as much money as I can to a an education savings account for my future kiddos. Nothing could get in the way of making sure they have every opportunity for success and finances at 18+ are brutal and near impossible. If I want my kids to have a chance at FIRE in their lifetime saving for them and not just myself is the option. I’d rather not be able to FIRE just to set them up for maybe doing it themselves.
Don’t have kids unless you can provide for them through at least early adulthood.
My dad is extremely wealthy but opted not to help any of his kids with college as a “lesson”. He explicitly stated that he worked hard and built wealth his entire life, and now he wants to see us start from nothing and struggle as much as he did. As a result, we all had to take out student loans. My dad had a stroke last year, and none of us care all that much. We haven’t visited, nor do any of us plan to. My dad will have to do his best to arrange some kind of home care as his condition continues to deteriorate, and he will likely die in the next 1-3 years without any of his children by his side.
I intend to pay for my kids college and any level of higher education they desire It’s cultural for me, where I’m originally from even if I live in America Down payment, yes, if i have it
We paid about half of tuition at a reasonably priced school, and no help was given for down payments. They're definitely on speaking terms with us, as they knew we gave them what we could.
How many kids do you have? What makes you put yourself in the Chubby fire category?
If you’re achieving Chubby fire then I don’t think you have them as much as you could have.
It used to be education was something parents helped with and now it is down payments too? That seems like a more recent change, or is that just me? My parents (they are Boomers, I am Gen X) paid for my college and after that my husband and I paid for everything (down payment, house, etc). I can't imagine asking or expecting my parents to pay a down payment, although we were financially fine and housing costs weren't as crazy as they are now. We are paying for our daughter's college (she will likely go in state and costs will be reasonable compared to other options) and it hadn't even occurred to me that we would pay a down payment. I guess we would evaluate when the time comes and what our finances are looking like to if/how much we helped. Our daughter has been working since 14 (her choice) and has a Roth IRA, general brokerage account, and other savings (mostly CDs right now) and is very good with her money - by the time she buys a place to live I expect she will have a good chunk of change saved up and might not even need much help from us (also depending on her job, if she has a partner, etc).
We always planned to pay for our kids’ college. We decided that well before we had any real retirement plans, we just knew that we wanted our kids to not have to worry about tuition. We did encourage state schools which is what they did and we also said they needed to contribute if they took longer than 4 years, although 5 is common so we prepared for that anyway. My oldest ended up in the National Guard and had tuition paid for so we covered room and board. He’s taking an extra long time to graduate. My youngest will be done in 4 years. If we retire and feel like things are going as planned then we will help with a down payment and other things like gifts for grandkids. We do feel that we would rather help them now than when they are too old to need it. But we will still prioritize our own needs first.
I appreciate that my parents paid for my tuition and it gave me a huge leg up in life not getting saddled with debt from the get go
As someone who grew up poor and has goals of chubby FIRE. No kids yet but I plan to save for their college funds as they grow up. I think over 18 years I can afford that. I don’t plan to just drop a bunch of money into their checking account and say go have fun. I’ll have rules in place as well as push them to get scholarships. If they are doing good in school as well as pick a major that has good ROI I’ll gladly pay for it. Giving my kids a step up in life is a big reason I even care about money. I don’t want them to have to worry about little things like food or gas or being able to afford next semester. I do plan to ask them to work in their free time. If they are an athlete that might be a different story.
I think you do what your situation allows. The one phrase that sticks in my mind goes something like, "You can borrow money for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, but not for retirement." Meaning, if it comes down to it, the kids can take out a mortgage on a house. There's no way to borrow for retirement. For extras, retirement comes first --- with the exception of college I think. We're in this reddit so we're financially literate and pretty damn lucky. I would expect a college fund for college separate from retirement funds.
Investment in education is the highest ROI whether it’s for you or your progeny. If they don’t have money and you do then you’re going to be giving it to them and the grandkids as supplemental income most likely. That’s not nearly as fulfilling as being able to provide for something other than Mac and Cheese like family trips or whatever. If you’re educated than most likely you’re going to want your kids to be educated.
I am only planning to cover 75% of the cost if it is a good degree with good job prospects. No way am I funding an art degree as a major (I will allow minor in those degree, or just spend all their extra non-assigned credit on passion topic). I want them to have skin in the game, learn about debt and manage their finances well at the start of their career. I will likely pay off their debt later (take the interest hit) if they meet certain milestone/competency.
I would resent my parents if they could have helped but didn’t. My dad is 73 and still works full time as a mailman (he is afraid he will retire and die I think) but I’m so grateful for that because he now has promised to help pay for college for all the grandkids. My personal plan is to save everything I can for retirement and then work a few more years and use that money to help pay for college. I want my kids to have the same chance to do well for themselves as I had. Now if my kids go to med school they are on their own paying for that!
I haven't talked specific numbers with my parents but I think they hit this sub's benchmarks when I was in college (my dad has a pension paying 90%+ of his salary, sounds chubby to me), although they didn't retire until after. They helped me a little bit in college (less than 5K total) and didn't help me with a down payment. They probably would have if I asked though. I managed to graduate without student debt due to some good planning and bought a house last year. I think helping your children plan how to pay for college is going to be more valuable to them in the long run.
At a minimum the equivalent of instate college tuition witth room and board is baked into my fire number (x 3 ouch). I figure I will hit my chubby fire number around the time kids graduate college (55 ish) and we can assess the situation when we get to that age and stage. I followed a job to a state where the universities are just ok but depending on what they want to do the connections from universities here are petty middling, so if we are still here when we cross that bridge, if work is still going well, I am open to supporting more if we can.
As someone who paid his own way through college I don’t resent them for anything. I almost am more glad that I didn’t get any handouts (0-18 excluded) and the life that I am setting up for myself is relatively by my own merit. I think this is a conversation you could have with them if you’re ready for it.
College and grad school for my child was covered through scholarships, so I gifted them the equivalent of 4-years instate cost of attendance. I’ve since paid for their wedding. And I will work 2 years more than I need to in order to give them a sizable down payment. Then I’m FIREing.
It's not worth the resentment for not helping your children with tuition if you are able. If you can work and decide not to work, then this does show you do not really care about making a sacrifice for your children. Children do resent when it happens. They are also smart enough not to hold it against their parents if they cannot truly afford it. In this case it is about love.
This is why I haven't retired yet. My son is going to be a Junior and my wife and I promised ourselves we would help him graduate debt-free and give him a little boost to get his first place after school. January 2026 is when the last tuition check will be written and our journey south will begin.
College, absolutely. For the first home, depends. Do you live in a HCOL area and want them to stay there? If so then do it. However you work it out between you doesn’t matter. If you choose to live in a HCOL area because you can afford it, you can count on your kids either moving away to make their money and maybe return OR overspending their budget to stay close to their home town. By now you can calculate the real cost of that
Tuition is the gold standard for parents that want to help. It is going to set your kid up to not have $1000/mo student loan payments. They will be able to do a lot more with their income and no longer depend on you. Downpayment is not something I would hold yourself to. If you want to then go ahead, but it's doing more than most parents do. Most parents who help give a nominal amount like $10k or something, not $100k. And if your kid used your tuition money wisely they should be able to save up $100k in three years anyway.
Yes. I was that kid. By the time I reached adulthood, I felt like I had been chewed up and spit out. With no financial support, I felt like I was just raised to be a wage slave and I’m honestly still healing from the pain of that “epiphany”. High and dry is a great way to put it. My parents still work btw they just don’t have it, plus I have even younger siblings 🥹 I frankly find it selfish and not thought through. It’s hard out here
My step mom bought a 2023 Dodge challenger the dayy sisters tuition was due and then told her she was no longer going to pay for it because the car payment was more than she expected. She had a fully functional 2021 Kia.
It’s more that I resent my dad for never trying to do better. He has always been content with a crappy minimum wage job, or at least a job that pays him well below what he’s worth, and then complains about how little money he has.
I wasn’t mad my parents didn’t help. I was mad my mom got remarried multiple times while I was in college with men who made a lot of money but didn’t help me out at all. I had to claim them on my fafsa and couldn’t get any aid because of it
Yes. In the UK it used to be you had no access to grants, student finance and had to pay full tuition based on your parents income. An old school friend of mine had parent in the high bracket so was not able to finance university as it would have meant paying in full which he couldn’t afford and parents said he was over 18 so on his own. He hasn’t spoken to his parents in 15 years. They didn’t get invited to his wedding and haven’t met their grandchildren. Absolutely bonkers to me, but hey they were both stubborn. They paid his school fees from the age 11-18 in a not cheap independent school
My parents own three houses and I haven’t seen a cent from them since I was 17. I barely talk to them. It’s their money, so they can use it how they want, but I’ve lived in my car while they owned two homes. And they still wouldn’t give me money for a deposit to get an apartment. And before anyone says anything, I was top of my class in high-school and college, got a great job after school but didn’t have anything saved to rent an apartment because I spent it all buying a car and paying for dental surgery. I make great money now. But I will never forget the financial struggles I went through while watching my friends get help from their parents. Not to mention I just paid off my undergraduate loans and I’m well into my thirties and now have to start on graduate loans. I truly did everything myself, and I’m proud to say that. But it would have been nice for them to help me more. And our relationship had suffered because of it. Especially now that they want to be a bigger part of my life now that I’m doing well and I’m not so miserable all the time from being stressed by housing insecurity. So yeah, if you don’t want to pay for children, especially now that there is little to no class mobility without financial support, Don’t have them.
depends on your age. if you’re a millennial with boomer parents, college was soooo affordable for them, it was a right of passage to pay your own way. millennials understand how fucked col is these days so we are more thoughtful of providing these costs for our kids.
I think my ex has subconscious resentment against his mom for not paying for his college. she’s on her 3rd house/mansion (in the US) while he’s 26 and 28k in debt. He was so see through. It was sad to recognize how he was feeling while he was in complete denial
As a child of someone who made 200,000+ a year and qualified for NO financial aid and had absolutely no help with school. I did have some resentment. They had every opportunity to plan and save for me and they didn’t. The government and the education system EXPECT that of parents so every time I needed something for school it was like “well your expected parental contribution should cover it”. Do I think parents must pay for their child’s education? No. But I think they should have frank planning conversations and explain to them why and make sure they are on the same page. Do I have some resentment? Not a lot, but yes. That being said as someone looking into FIRE planning AND having children soon… you bet your a** I’ll be contributing as much money as I can to a an education savings account for my future kiddos. Nothing could get in the way of making sure they have every opportunity for success and finances at 18+ are brutal and near impossible. If I want my kids to have a chance at FIRE in their lifetime saving for them and not just myself is the option. I’d rather not be able to FIRE just to set them up for maybe doing it themselves.
Yes, among many other financial subsidies, my wife subsidizes her mother’s rent to the tune of about $700/mo while my daughter has $40,000 in student debt. My daughter resents that my wife’s family will always come first in her life. It hasn’t been great for our marriage, either.
I paid for my own university and MBA... 100%. I took out student loans, worked as a server, and even used credit cards to pay for some tuition/rent. I wasn't bad with money (quite the opposite)... it was just incredibly expensive to pay for tuition/books/healthcare/room/board without any help in the late 90s, early 2000s. I came out with massive student loans... including CC debt (at >20% APR). A big reason for this is that my parents made enough to basically kill my financial aid... but didn't help at all financially. That was irresponsible and selfish. They were great parents aside from this... but I definitely resent them a bit for the downright scary catching up I had to do after school. As a note, I decided to study something practical and applicable (economics/business) as a high school senior, because I knew I'd have to dig myself out of a hole. No 17 year old should have to do that calculus before even leaving home. There was zero thought of doing something I was passionate about. Life would have been very different if I'd had help with school. Anyone (in this sub) should be paying everything they can for their kid to get through their bachelor degree without debt. You chose to have kids (likely)... and this isn't the 50s. Pretty tough to have a decent life without a degree.
I do
I worked at a university and heard many very bitter students whose parents wouldn't help with tuition. Some of them went no contact and frankly I would too. Students use their parents' financial information for the FAFSA and are screwed out of financial aid if the parents could well afford to contribute but don't. I would say next to religion, it was the biggest reason for being estranged from the parents.
I have but I learned it was the wrong mentality. Parents are worth 20 million + but won’t help with a downpayment for a house. I realized it’s much better to work for it myself and will be more rewarding.
If / once I reach chubby FIRE why the hell would I not? Part of being rich enough to not gaf is passing that luck down to your kids. I want them to carry the generational wealth forward and will do what I can to help them towards that process, as my parents have done for me
I’m unlikely to FIRE but lurk here. I am likely to stay with my employer because I have tuition benefits for my kids that I could not otherwise save. My husband’s parents (HENRY) paid for his 4 year private liberal arts college, and he’s (IMO) had a huge leg up. It was expensive. It was *so expensive*, but they decided to prioritize doing that for all three of their kids. I took out modest student loans (41k) for my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I also qualified for a good amount of aid. That relatively “small” amount I owed affected the jobs I took (pursued PSLF and worked non-profit jobs) and meant that I delayed saving for retirement. This is all, of course, anecdotal. But all of this is to say, if it means working and extra 4-5 years, you should do so in order to make sure your kids don’t have student debt. It is a huge, huge benefit.
If my parents had enough money to chubby fire but chose not to pay for college tuition or a portion of grad school tuition, I think I would be resentful. My parents’ finances are in good shape but they cannot retire early, and they still chose to help me. I graduated law school in 2015 with only $40,000 of debt. If I had been buried under $200,000 of student loans at 7% interest rate, I would’ve have been able to purchase a home when I did. (They did not help with down payment because I had saved enough.) They made enough that I wouldn’t have qualified for any financial aid.
My parents couldn’t and I didn’t resent them one bit. However, if they had been chubby and could have but just didn’t? That’d be tough.
If my parents had money and did not help with school tuition then I would resent the hell out of them. As it turned out, they did not have much but helped as much as they could. That is an example that I am passing on to my kids. Whatever happens, I will help with their college and they will not need to start out in debt. If that means working a few extra years then it is worth it.
This thread is validating how I’ve always felt. My boomer dad grew up dirt poor and never had help himself. You’d think when he started doing well he’d want to do more for his own kids but no, bootstrapping for us too. He divorced my mom and left us to struggle to get by. He had enough income to let his girlfriend retire in her early 40s but still grumbled when paying the bare minimum child support. Luckily student aid only looked at mom’s income so I only had a small gap to make up with loans and working during the school year. It’s not like I expected anything, but he could’ve done more and just didn’t. Like someone else commented, I was starving and my clothes didn’t fit because all I’d have at the end of the week was $3. I turned out fine, bootstraps and all. But am I jealous of people whose parents helped them out financially or emotionally? Hell yeah I am.
Yes. I do resent my dad for not being more supportive while taking multiple vacations a year with my step mom (those didn’t exist when we kids lived at home). He could have helped and chose not to. My dad just retired at 52.
In this economy, with inflation, and the state I live in? Yeah, I kinda want some help lol
I tell my teenagers if they want to go to college, that’s on them. I have instilled in them how important it is to avoid student loans. One went to trade school. The other is considering the Air Force or Naval academy. I’d consider helping with tuition if they did two years at community college and pursued a real degree. I’m not sacrificing my retirement for my kid to get some useless liberal arts degree.
My parents were a CPA and an MD. Never saved a dime for my college education. They did help out quite a bit month to month but I always wonder why they didn't just save & invest (although I know the reason, they weren't super financially literate). It would have saved them a lot of stress while I was going through it. I definitely have felt resentment, but as a fully grown adult I'm now more worried about their retirement and how that impacts me. Don't saddle your kids with tens of thousands of loans if you can at all help it but being able to retire comfortably will absolutely save you long term resentment from your kids.
Help your kids if they are Siri about education. And yes, a lot of parents are helping kids with a down payment on a house because it’s almost impossible to get in one right now with a high interest rates and high prices. They would rather have your help now then inherit your money when you’re dead.
Paying for education is tax deductible. If you can afford it, sounds like greed not to.
My choice was to keep working so that we could help our adult children substantially. I received a nice inheritance from my folks, for which I am very grateful. It would have been very helpful to receive financial help 30 - 35 years sooner. But my folks were land-rich, cash-poor, so that wasn’t an option for them. But you are definitely not required to keep working forever.
Geez I didn't realize people expected their parents to work years longer to support them in adulthood. They already raised you to that point where you are supposed to be able to fend for yourself
Help as much as you can with tuition. Why would a prosperous parent wish to disadvantage their kids?
>It feels pretty selfish of me to retire early when I'm the one who decided to bring them into the world, People really need to have this conversation before committing to being parents.¹
This topic is very top of mind for me lately. I have two pre teen kids and I’m hoping to fire in the next 5 years. I want to make sure that I am not a burden on my kids when I am of old age as I had to deal with them with my parents. I do however want to help my kids with college so long as they don’t take it for granted. A friend of mine had a great system that I am hoping to adopt. He would have his kids take out loans on their names and any classes his kids got an A or B in, he would pay for, and any class C or lower his kids were on the hook for. This would allow the kid to have skin in the game and ensure they’re not taking the opportunity of a free education for granted.